Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Blair Packham from The Jitters: Toronto Mike'd #926

Episode Date: October 5, 2021

Mike chats with Blair Packham about his years in The Jitters, his time on Q107, Last Of The Red Hot Fools, Closer Every Day, comparisons to Huey Lewis and Doug and the Slugs, writing for other people, his work on TV and films and more.

Welcome to episode 926 of Toronto Mike. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. ChefDrop, access top chef and restaurant prepared meal kits shipped across southern ontario buy one and get one 50 off with the promo code f-o-t-m-b-o-g-o mckay ceo forums the highest impact and least time intensive peer group for over 1200 ceos executives and business owners

around the world sticker you. 1521 and Mike Majeski of Remax Specialists Majeski Group who's repping up the GTA real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. Hi Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is Blair Packham. Welcome Blair. Hi Mike, how are you? Good, how are you doing buddy? I'm good, I'm really good. I'm about to tell the origin story of where I met you. But first, this is your opportunity to beg for my forgiveness. There was a miscommunication here with our time. No, it wasn't even a miscommunication. It was that I didn't double check my calendar and I assumed all along that this was at 11

in the morning. Okay. Yeah. And instead, it was at 10 in the morning and I received a phone call while I was at home thinking, I guess I should go soon. And then I got in the car. I got here faster than any human has ever gotten here from my end. I just assumed Mr. Pete Fowler, who we'll talk about in a moment, he arranged a police

escort for you. No, but he did say that if I got stopped by the OPP, I could claim that he was my sister or something like that. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you're here. And, you know, you're a busy man, probably. And then you thought it was 11 and that gets stuck in your craw. Do they say that anymore? Is anyone saying that? I think stuck in your craw is a bad thing. I think it means that it's, yeah, you, you say something to me that bugs me and it gets stuck in my craw. And weeks later I say, Mike, you know, that thing you said. Yeah. So, so yeah, absolutely. And what is a craw? Uh, do you know? No, I don't. But I think it sounds like it means

your throat actually. Oh my goodness. Stuck in my craw. Well, that's not good for a singer. No, definitely not. You got to avoid that. So, okay, let's tell the origin story. So, uh, Pete Fowler, actually, I even just changed. I wanted to stick, uh, once I heard Pete was on the Pirate live stream, I thought, oh man, I better, I better like represent the lost indie city. That's right. Yeah. And there you are. And you look great in wearing that, that lost indie city shirt. That's right. There you are, and you look great in wearing that Lost Indy City shirt. It's a good looking shirt, I gotta say. I got three of them. Wow, and I have none. Thanks a lot, Pete. Pete didn't throw a shirt at you

when you were, okay, so let's get that going here. So, I don't know when that was. I feel like it was three weeks ago or so. It was September 11th, in fact. Interesting. And I remember because it was that date, shall live in infamy. Right, so we're looking at like at least four about four weeks ago uh maybe longer yeah four and a bit so um pete invited

me to his home backyard his backyard of his where he lives and he said he's got like he's got some musicians that are going to play in his backyard and i'm thinking okay you know some guy's going to bring his acoustic guitar play like like a Neil Young song or whatever. And then it was Stephen Stanley who's been on the show and, of course, was a member of Lowest of the Low. And I adore Stephen. He's a great guy, great musician. He's there. And then Blair Packham from the Jitters is there.

And you were amazing, buddy. Thank you. Thank you very much. I had an amazing time. I was just telling Pete, highlighted my summer. You weren't just saying that to be nice to Peteete that was the highlight not at all no i mean i had a great time going to a cottage this summer that was good but but in terms of playing for sure it was a wonderful night it really was it was a wonderful night and uh i didn't expect it i think that's part of why it was a highlight is because i also thought it would be in some guy's backyard you know you

don't know what to expect no and and uh you know and my band they were unenthused as well because uh you know it's in Flamborough so it's outside of Toronto one one of the guys in my band has a new girlfriend and he wanted to spend that you know that evening with her and and so when I finished when I got home I was like oh, you guys, you missed the greatest night. Right. Really? Seriously? It was so great. It blew away all my expectations.

Mother Nature helped out because it was a gorgeous night. And Pete had the fire going. And I was sitting right beside the fire. And it was warm. And you had the fire going. You sounded great. The acoustics were great. Not only musically did you sound great but as i was

watching you perform blair uh your your rap if you will your patter i'm listening to it and i'm thinking i need to get this guy on toronto mic like this is my thought and then i think i got introduced maybe stephen stanley introduced me to you and the rest is history here you are buddy well here i am i'm glad to be here here i'm late but glad to be here this will be the highlight of your autumn yes there you go exactly so shout out to pete fowler and the lost indie city uh for kind of uh sparking this uh this fire that we're in you know this warming us right now okay i have a few notes from other fotms who wanted me to just shout you out jason schneider he came back here of mike baguski so mike baguski does keyboards for blue rodeo yeah and uh jason sat right there for uh and uh he wanted me to

just say that uh he remembers you recording uh rem at larry's hideaway in 1983 yep that's true july of uh was it 83 or 82 but yeah it was it was July. It was Larry's Hideaway, which was a long gone club. I don't know where all the cockroaches moved to. Did the Garys book that? But they had a lot of great bands, and they had a great stage and lights and sound. And yeah, REM, first appearance in Toronto, and I recorded them. And then they released it. They released it about 10 years ago. So can you, like, give me, like, what do you mean recorded them? Well, at that time, Toronto Radio, there were three rock FM stations.

There was Q107, Chum FM, and CFNY. Right. And all of them, I think there was some kind of CRTC mandate to provide local content, but it didn't have to be local artists. It was just, you know, stuff recorded or presented live. So three times a week, I worked with a company called Comfort Sound, a recording studio. And I was an engineer and Comfort Sound provided the recording facilities for those three radio stations for quite a while. So three times a week, generally, not every week, but three times a week at most, we would be out recording people like Aztec Camera, Stevie Ray Vaughan, BB King, and REM.

I did REM twice, actually. So was that to air on CFNY, for example? In that case, yes, it was to air on cfny for example in that case yes it was to air on cfny yeah that's that at that time it sounds like rem would have been a cfny band i don't think q and chum would touch that no and and likewise uh we did head pins for instance at alma combo and i don't think cfny would have touched that well you know until recently i think as we're going to get into q107 later uh of course but but they've quite changed what they'll play. Like, for example, you can tune into Q107 today and hear Duran Duran.

Right. That is different. That's way different. Yeah. There was a time where, you know, famously, they would have had a terrible name for that band. Terrible name for that band. And I found that in recent years, if you put on, if I punched the Q107 button, it was always a song that I knew. It was that same Led Zeppelin song every single time.

Or that same Jitters song. We somehow didn't make the cut in terms of classic rock for some reason. Maybe now we do. We were never really revived on Q107. We were revived on, you know, I don't know if you remember that format, Jack. Of course, yeah, 92.5. Yeah, but also that was a format like all across the country.

And when that popped up, all of a sudden the jitters, you know, were revived. Like Last of the Red Hot Fools would be amazing. But with Boom, Boom would play. Yeah, yeah. Boom does, yeah. Boom still does. Going a little out of order, but we're going to get back to this. We're going to go chronological. I feel like now maybe it wasn't the classic rock era, but there were

two Jitters jams I remember getting heavy radio play. Closer Every Day was probably the other one. For sure. In fact, we're going to play a little bit later But shout out to Jason Schneider I didn't know about that REM recording at Larry's Hideaway So you're saying they released it?

Well, they released it about 10 years ago With the, I think, 30th anniversary of their first album, Murmur Wow And so it was a bonus If it's 82 or 83, that's early days for REM Oh yeah That's amazing And it would make sense that the Garys would book them

because the way the Garys, they've both been on, well, separately, but they would book because they legitimately liked the music. Like it was all about they had to like the band before they were booked. Yeah, I knew Gary Cormier a little bit way back when, and I know Gary Topp a little bit better. I can say unequivocally Gary Topp is a fan. He's a music fan. And he's a film fan, and he's just a little bit better. I can say unequivocally, Gary Topp is a fan. He's a music fan. And he's a film fan

and he's just a culture vulture. And that's how you get the police playing the Horseshoe Tavern in front of nine people before Roxanne breaks. Exactly. Exactly.

And then a few more people at the edge, you know, before they broke big. Yeah, wild. Wild. Now, another FOTM who was back here last week is greg brady who now uh hosts the uh morning show on 640 and he wrote me to say uh he wrote he wrote in the third person here so i'll read what he wrote he wrote greg brady loves the jitters be careful when you start referring to yourself because i you know i saw

this you know the seinfeld episode but you got to be careful. But Greg Brady loves the jitters. Remember seeing you at Victoria Park in London in spring 1988, same year the Oilers were using Closer Every Day every time they scored a playoff goal, I think. I hated the Oilers, so I remember it. Do you remember this, Blair, that Closer Every Day was an Oilers goal song? Yeah, I do.

Every time the Oilers hit the ice, every time there was a pause in play, they would play Closer Every Day. And I'm not really a hockey follower. You know, like I wish them well. Right. But, you know, really really so for me i you know it was the first time i'd watch hockey in a long time at that point and it was exciting well i mean

if i heard my one of my songs uh i would be excited too i was like that's uh that's your baby that's it's like watching your child play uh nhl hockey yeah and that song by the way is it you know it was a sort of a pure pop kind of song but it really it it was meant to be a little snarky or a little uh a little suggestive you know the the chorus is and it gets bigger every single time i'm near you um for instance you know so yeah well i'm gonna play a bit of it later actually and then uh now that i'll think about it in that light it'll be a little little different. Hopefully better. I don't know.

Well, again, I'm going to save. Another Blair has a great question for you, but I want to save it for when we get to that part of this chat chronologically here. So Blair, I'll get back to your question. I promise it's locked and loaded here. But this Blair, Blair Packham, can you give me the Jitters origin story? Yeah. Well, okay, so I was working at Comfort Sound, that recording studio. Right. And my boss, my great mentor, Doug McClement,

who has gone on to be the greatest live recording engineer in the country and certainly one of them in the world. Okay, I have to interrupt many times, and I apologize already, but Captain Phil Evans and Brother Bill were on an episode of Toronto Mike

this past summer talking about the history of the CFNY Canada Day Festivals. Okay. And they were telling me about this gentleman's work. Apparently, he recorded

some, like, I don't think they were Edge Fests yet. I think they were, like, CFNY Canada Day Specials or whatever. And it's pristine. And in fact, I've heard so many great things about this gentleman's recording.

He has great ears. And not only that, he's a great guy. He's recorded anybody you can think of who's alive anyway. And many who are now dead, but people, they were all alive when he recorded them. That always is best. It helps, yeah. It's best practice. But at that point, his studio comfort sound was a small studio and in a cube van he had this recording studio and he would you know do supply audio for these broadcasts

and so forth so i was working for him full-time my my really my only full-time job as an adult the only time i've had a full-time job as an adult was working for doug and he offered me recording time just to learn how to be a better engineer. He said, bring in your friends. I didn't have a band at the time, and I thought, well, I should form a band because when I brought in people to play, I usually had to pay them. And I thought, if I have a band and we're all working towards a common cause, then I won't have to pay them.

So I formed a band with my high school friend Danny Levy, and we found Matt Greenberg playing bass in a cover band and asked him to play bass with us. And then Glenn Martin joined the band. He was a high school pal. And then we recorded a lot at Comfort Sound at night and sometimes on weekends. When the studio wasn't booked, Doug would say, the day before or two days before, he'd say, well, it looks like Saturday's free if you want to record.

Yeah. So we recorded and at first it was eight track and then it was 16 track, two inch tape. And then it was 24 track, two inch tape. And, you know, all we had to do was pay for the tape and the pizza. And it was it was great. Amazing. OK. And I again, at some point bob ezrin

enters the picture here yeah bob ezrin who had produced the wall for pink floyd uh you know the biggest record of 1980 i guess i saw him on a tv show and and uh it was on city tv and he said do you remember what show i don't i love those details. People are like, who cares what show? And I'm like, no way, I care. I know this. He went on to host it. So you can probably find the information. He hosted it briefly.

But when the host of that episode went around the table, it was a panel show. And they went around the table and the host said, and he's a very busy producer. Bob actually interrupted him and said, eh, not so busy. I've actually got some time. And I thought, I've got to find Bob Ezrin. Because he produced, it wasn't Pink Floyd so much, although

I do love Pink Floyd. Can I guess? Alice Cooper. It was Alice Cooper. Oh my God. And Bob produced or co-produced those records with Jack Richardson. So I was a big bob ezrin fan got in touch with him somehow he called me about two weeks after i mailed off my demo and it was hard to find an address for him this is pre-internet and he called blair this is bob ezrin and i was i was i was almost speechless you know really and he said yeah got your uh got your package because i had sent him um uh you know an eight by ten and a cassette right and he said, yeah, got your, uh, got your package. Cause I had sent him, um, uh, you know,

an eight by 10 and a cassette. Right. And he said, got your package. Haven't listened to the tape. Um, I want you to know, I probably won't like it. Cause that's how it goes. Very straight speaking, you know, straight shooter. Right. And then he said, but I need to know something this, uh, this picture of you guys, uh, which one are you? And I uh and i thought okay here it goes i'm we're gonna lose this moment you know because i i'm not you know i'm not a classically rock and roll looking guy you know so i said um well i'm the big guy and i'm the lead singer he said oh thank god and i said why and he said because if if you were the big guy and you were the bass player we'd have to fire you you're not very rock and roll were the bass player, we'd have to fire you.

You're not very rock and roll. But as the singer, we can build a story around that. And I was like, oh, I'd never even thought of building a story around that. Is that like a meatloaf? Meatloaf or cheap trick or something like that. You know, the fish out of water kind of thing. Sure. And so we started working with Bob.

He listened to the tape. He told me he thought the songs were great and he thought that it was engineered well, which is a nice tip of the hat from that guy. And then we started working together and we worked together for like a year and a half. Never released anything. And then the record label that was interested in signing us told us that they didn't want to work with Bob.

If Bob was attached, they didn't want to work with Bob. Interesting. Yeah, and they had their reasons. they didn't want to work with Bob. So yeah. And they had their reasons. They didn't really outline them to us, but at that point, Bob actually, it was sort of moot anyway, because Bob had to go to LA. There was a Rod Stewart record that was calling him and, uh, and he was moving and he moved his family. So, uh, yeah, yeah. But it was great. And I've, I've run into him a couple of times since he's always very gracious. And, uh, but you know, we, we never, we never actually released anything.

But it was, like I say, it was about a year and a half. And I understand there was another Jitters, right? There's actually another British band called the Jitters? Well, there was a band from New Jersey called the Jitters. I don't know about a British band, but, yeah, this is hilarious, actually. So we were managed at the time by a guy named Ted Thrasher, and it came to his attention, a cease and desist letter came to him

from a band in New Jersey called Ronnie and the Jitters. Okay. And we get the cease and desist that says, you know, you must stop using the name The Jitters and so forth. And we were about to get a record deal, and both Bob Ezrin and Ted Thrasher said, I said, what do we do? What do we do?

And they both said, ah, don't worry about it. Just keep using the name. Let them sue you. And I'm thinking, like, I'm a poor musician. I don't want anybody to sue me. But one of them, I can't remember if it was Ted or Bob, probably Bob Ezrin, said, trust me, Ronnie will be putting up aluminum siding before you guys release your first album.

So here's the funny thing, though. The funny capper is, I ran into a woman from New Jersey about 10 or 15 years ago. And it came up that I had been in a band called The Jitters. And she said, oh my God, I knew a band called The Jitters, Ronnie and The Jitters. And I said, what are they doing now?

I don't know if it was Ronnie or one of the guys in the band. She said, he's putting up aluminum side. That's amazing. Yeah, I'm not kidding. That's what she said. That's amazing. And I explained to her, and she sort of just looked at me like I was weird because it was too coincidental almost.

Yeah, of all the occupations to assign to this chap, you nailed it. Yeah. Literally there. Exactly. And for the record, I do believe there's like a 1960s British band called The Jitters as well. No kidding. I actually didn't know that.

Today you learned. I'm here to educate and inform and entertain as well. I'm going to play a little jam. We're going to play a few jitter songs as we discuss. But here's a jam because I think this is the right time for this song. And again, potato recording, but I don't know who to blame for that. We'll talk about that after I fade it down. But here is The Jitters. I tried to explain

But I didn't really know what I was saying I could try it once again If you'd tell me the rules To this game that you're playing The words, they come so slow When you're trying to let them come from the heart I could say that I just don't know But it's so hard to be sure when you're falling apart

I don't know if I can take anymore If you're gonna blitz her off I'm gonna walk out the door But if you want me You gotta take me as I am If you want me Say that you want me And I'll do my best to love you as I am If you take you

Gotta take me as I am I guess we're going back to the 84, I believe. What can you tell me about this jam and then hopefully you'll speak to the role of Munch Music in all this. Well, yeah, we recorded that at Comfort Sound. That song, Take Me As I Am, we recorded that.

I recorded that. I recorded that before the band was even formed with several different people at Comfort Sound. And we recorded it at Comfort Sound. This would be version number four or five. I don't know. Not different mixes, different recordings. And then we decided we would make a video. A guy came to us, Scott Eldridge, and he said, I want to make a video with you guys.

And he had this vision that we were going to be driving down the street in a Cadillac convertible or something. And I said, no, no, we've got this idea. Take me as I am, where I try different images to try and fit in with the rock thing or whatever. So I dressed up as Michael Jackson and Easy Top and and you know all kinds of stuff and we made this video and it got a lot of airplay on Much Music which was brand new at that point yeah 84 I was thinking I don't think I had it in my home yet like it it was it existed of course yeah like there was a moment where it went on a different like tier of cable yeah and then it was like oh tsn and much music are now because i knew csn used to have jay's games and i would like watch it scramble right right just to hear the audio yeah yeah yeah uh wow okay so uh i used to

go to the elma combo to watch much music because they had big screens in between sets at the bands i mean 84 uh i'm trying to think back, but like Christopher Ward, I guess, and J.D. Roberts, and is Erica M. and Steve Anthony there yet? I guess so. I think Erica was there. She was one of the original ones.

I'm not sure Steve Anthony was there. I mean, maybe not as a VJ yet. I'm not sure. Right. And Michael Williams, maybe? I'm just trying to think of the... The original crew, yeah. The OGs. Yeah, the OGs, yeah.

Wow. So what's it like? So Moe Berg came over and he was talking about how like suddenly when I'm an adult now started getting like pretty high rotation on Much Music, how it sort of changes everything. Like what's it like when you're suddenly on Much Music?

Well, it changed our, you know, our club draw, for instance, we were, you know, we were playing at the Horseshoe or Lee's Palace, you know, places like that. And suddenly we had lineups to get in, which is kind of cool. I mean, totally cool, actually. And people would wait for that song. So sometimes we'd play it, you know, if we did two sets, we'd play it twice. And so that was kind of cool. Getting recognized on the street by people who didn't quite know who you are, but they know they know you from somewhere. That's interesting, you know.

And people who want to tell you, this is one of my pet peeves, people who feel it's important to tell you that they don't actually, they're not really fans of your band, but my little sister likes you. You know, it's like, why do you have to say that? Why do you have to say anything at all then? You know? You know, listening to that song, it sounds like it's a little bit of like, a titch of like, is she really going out with him?

Like a little of that. Yeah, Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson, sure. And then also, even though, you know, you're older than this gentleman, and this is like in the reverse order, but you can almost close your eyes and think, oh, that's like Stephen Page is singing that a little bit. It's funny.

I get that a lot. And Stephen and I are friends. And he's a great guy. And he's a great singer. And people often compare me. I think it's very flattering to compare my voice to his, which is great. But yeah, I'm 10 years older than Stephen.

Yeah, yeah, it doesn't work. I know. The math does not work. The opposite might be true. You know, I knew them years older than Steve. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't work. I know, the math does not work. No, no. The opposite might be true. You know, I knew them really early on in their career, Bare Naked Ladies, the two of them, Ed and Steve, before there were other members. They would open for my girlfriend, Arlene Bishop,

who became my wife, and I would play with them. So I met them then in this place that held 30 people. What's the name of this place? The Cabana Room. The Cabana Room at the Spadina Hotel. King and Spadina. I just had Paul Myers on the show last week. And he was talking about these.

All my friends. So you're friends with Paul too. Paul and his wife married Arlene and I on a beach in San Francisco. I don't know if I knew that. I don't think I knew that. But that's just wild how everyone's so connected. It's a little freaky. Well, yeah, and you had Ron and Sexsmith on a few weeks ago.

And, of course, Ron and I go way back as well. Oh, another sweet. But what I like about you, Mr. Packham, is you're in my backyard right now. Both those genitals, one was in California, I feel like, and the other was in Stratford. But still, they were zooming in. Yes.

Much better in person. Oh, good. Good. Yeah, here I am. Yeah. And Moe Berg, who's also a friend, he came in in person, I take it. Yes, he did. Yeah, yeah.

Well, back, you know, pre-COVID, that was the only option. Like, I wouldn't do a Paul Myers. Like, I just, yeah, I don't, I just, it's in person or it doesn't happen was my mentality, which has, of course, shifted quite a bit when this virus showed up. It's in person or it doesn't happen was my mentality, which has, of course, shifted quite a bit when this virus showed up. It's funny. I run a songwriting workshop every summer, and because of the COVID thing, because of the pandemic, I've been able to have higher-profile mentors.

I had Steve Earle at last summer's, like the summer before last workshop, and then we had Lyle Lovett this past summer. Does he enter the Zoom and go, here I am? last summer's like summer before last workshop. And then we had Lyle Lovett this, this past summer. And it's, and we had Chris. Does he enter the zoom and go, here I am. He, he actually dressed up for the zoom and he was against a black background and

he stood up for the entire hour that we spoke. He was, he was so generous with his time and he was great. And at the very end, and I think there's a video of this online very end. He, he didn he he didn't you know that awkward moment at the end of the zoom when when you you know leave it well well we weren't all leaving i was going to talk to the the participants after right so we i said and great you know many thanks to to lyle lovett for his his great contribution and thanks so much lyle i hope to talk to you again. And he goes, thanks so much, folks. And then he just stands there. And I'm talking. As I'm talking, he starts sliding down out of the frame. And he's smiling

the whole time because he knows how silly it looks. And then you see him pop up right at the camera and he presses, because his computer was like four feet away from him. So then he presses leave. Are you the host of this Zoom? Yeah. I feel like this is on you, actually, because, you know, you can right click any participant and move them into Zoom? Yeah. I feel like this is on you, actually, because you can right-click any participant and move them into the waiting room. Because I do this,

this is a power move I do all the time. So you decide when they leave. Didn't know that. Yeah. Well, now I know. I need to know the height of his hair now.

It's still pretty high. Good for him. He's got good hair. I haven't seen him in a while. Yeah. No, he was looking good. I think, you know, he was an odd-looking guy when he was younger good i think you know he he was an odd looking guy

when he was younger i think he's growing into his looks i really do i could see that yeah okay good for him i know he uh he had that uh julia roberts marriage which which raised his profile quite a bit i think with the normies yes it did yeah with anybody who didn't know who he was they sure did after that right right right but steve earl wow like I'm a big, I'm a fanatic of The Wire and Steve Earle, not only can you hear him on that, but he plays a character, Waylon. Yeah.

And he's great on there. But I think he's just like, hearing him, in fact, you mind leaving? I'm going to zoom in with Steve Earle and finish this episode. Oh, okay.

He's great. Yeah, he is great. He's also great in Treme. Yeah, yeah, yes, he is. He's fairly tremendous is Anything David Simon Creates I check out And David Simon's Twitter Yes

He's pretty brutal It's fantastic When there's somebody he doesn't like He lays into them It's very entertaining Speaking of Elvis Costello Have you watched The Deuce? No

The Deuce is a David Simon show that I really enjoyed on HBO. And one of the seasons, because it's taking place in New York in the 70s and you kind of go through the good old days of New York City, if you will. But there's one of the theme songs is

This Year's Girl. It's an Elvis Costello jam and they take his song and they make it a duet with a current singer, a woman who joins in as a duet. But honestly, it's amazing. Just the theme song they chose

for one of the seasons from Elvis Costello, it's great. Anyway, you should watch The Deuce. I'm going to. I'm going to, for sure. Tell me if you dig it. Okay, so that's Take Me As I Am,

which was a much music hit. How come that song doesn't appear on any Jitters albums? I don't know. None of the producers we ever worked with, and we were sort of tired of it by the time we made records. Because foolishly, when it was on MuchMusic, we didn't press up a single. I don't know why. Stupidly. Even just to sell it like Sam the Record Man. Exactly. Why not? Don't know. You need a like Sam the Record Man. Exactly. Why not? Don't know.

You need a time machine to go back. Exactly. But that got you enough attention. And I'm going to play a little of this gentleman later, actually, for another reason. But maybe not another reason. We'll talk about it. But Huey Lewis and the News, when they came to Toronto,

you guys opened for them. Yeah, at the C the cne at the exhibition grandstand uh 24 000 people wow yeah got paid a thousand bucks um did you share it or did you get no no a thousand bucks you know it's it's not bad you know actually at that point we were getting 1200 bucks a week to play the elma combo and we had to bring in our own pa but wait how many members like how many people shared the thousand? Four people plus a manager plus a sound person doing monitors. Okay.

And that was good money at the time for you. That was all right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it was okay. I mean, but the point is that we got to play for 24,000 people. Well, that's right. It's the exposure. And Huey came by to say hello and wish us well

and we met him, went up with him later at the Diamond Club and hung out with him there. It was a really great, great night for us. Amazing. And again, I'll play a little Huey later, but let me play this big jam. Now this is the, I think this is, you'll tell me

after when we chat about it, but I'd say this is the most uh recognized jitters song and i i feel like i still hear it and we'll if it's q107 is not playing it i'll have to make a few phone calls after this after this recording but here's last of the red hot fools i've not a fool. Just a matter of getting your attention Acting suggestive and not being quite shy I've been a fool, played it dumb I should have played it smart Used my head but not my heart

Must have been crazy, played it hot I should have played it cool Now I'm just the last of the red hot fools Yeah, when I was real lonely Catchy the last of the red hot fools. Yeah, when I was alone and I would think... Catchy AF, as the kids would say. Like, I found, you know, I heard you played in Pete Fowler's Backyard. You played this song. And I think it was bouncing around my head for the next, you know, couple of weeks for sure.

Like, it's just catchy. Yeah. Yeah, you know, there are people who think the word catchy is an insult. I hope you aren't one of them. But some people, they think it means it's fluffy or something like that. And maybe it is, but I like catchy. I always have. I like catchy songs.

And when I write a song, even when I'm writing a song today, even though it's not going to be on the radio or anything like that, I want it to be memorable. So what can you tell me about writing Red Hot Fools and then eventually we'll have to definitely speak about the Q107 Homegrown Contest. Bob Ezrin would occasionally, while we were working with him, would occasionally drop these...

He was always working with somebody famous or about to work with somebody famous. When David Bowie was doing the Let's Dance tour, Bob was his sound consultant for a couple of shows. And so he was like, yeah, David and I had lunch yesterday. And really it was amazing. We felt like, man, we're in the real music business. And he said one day, Cindy Lauper's looking for some new songs,

so if you guys have anything kicking around, let me know. We didn't have anything Appropriate for her necessarily But I started thinking about it I was at a friend's house John Wynott who is a producer And composer He was living in Toronto at the time And he asked me to house sit for him

So I was house sitting and I was vacuuming And as I'm vacuuming I started thinking head but not my heart I must have been crazy as I'm vacuuming like to the rhythm of the vacuum and and uh I thought I think that's a good chorus I've been a fool played it dumb should have played it smart I thought that's catchy that's good it's like and it tells a story but the title i didn't i didn't quite have except doug mcclement had see there's always a story behind the story doug mcclement who i worked with at comfort sound he he and i had recorded the heat wave festival in august of 81 or 1980 actually at um at most park and elvis costello was on that bill and doug had made cassettes for us to listen

to in the truck of the of the various people who played at the show talking heads b-52s elvis costello sounds amazing by the way it was amazing it was absolutely amazing so so but he misheard one of the titles of the elvis costello song so he because he was just going off what he heard on the tape right right so he wrote down instead of lost in the lipstick vogue which was a song that Elvis played he wrote down last of the red hot fools and I thought I always thought that's a good song title right and so then when I'm working on this thing in my head while I'm vacuuming I thought oh yeah I could use that and then and so the chorus ends with now I'm just the last of the red hot fools so there it is. That's fantastic. I love that origin story.

And it's, yeah, the story in a story. It's like an inception here, which I dig. And again, I don't mean catchy to be offensive. I mean, it's a negative at all. Like, I just think it's an earworm, you know? Yeah, some people even use earworm. That song came up, my song, our song, The Last of the Red Hot Fools,

came up as a complaint on somebody's website years ago. I don't know. I typed in Last of the Red Hot Fools because I can't remember why. It was an ego surf, I suppose. Why not? Yeah. But then this website comes up, and it's from some woman somewhere who is a dieting and exercise coach, and she's in Canada, and she's complaining on her blog.

This is like 2002 or something. Yeah, the Hay Day blogs. Yeah, she said, I heard this song on the radio the other day, and it hasn't left my head, and I can't stand it. And it's such an earworm. And I'm thinking, oh, good term. I'd never heard earworm before. But the idea that she was complaining on her blog about my song,

it was like, okay. See, there are some earworms that are bad, of course. Oh, yeah. Baby shark, for example. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got kids. So when the baby shark, thankfully, they've kind of aged out of it now. But my goodness, that's an earworm you don't necessarily want.

But I'm okay with red hotools bouncing around my cranium. Okay, so that jam comes out, and you, well, I don't even know it came out. You tell me, but this is basically, this is the song you use for Q107's Homegrown content. Yeah, but not the same recording, because remember, we did a whole bunch of recordings. So after the video recording,

we thought, we can do better than that. Plus, we rearranged it a little bit. So then we did yet another recording of it that. Plus we rearranged a little bit. So then we did yet another recording of it. And there's more, by the way. I could do literally a whole album of recordings of Last of the Red Hot Fools. And you should. Yeah.

And Take Me As I Am as well. So we did a version with John Wynott, the aforementioned John Wynott producing In a Basement. And then we did another version that was, I'm not sure why particularly we did that, but that one ended up being the Q107 thing. And at that point, no, after that, I got a gig as the swing shift announcer on Q107. Right.

And it was really because their overnight guy had quit, and I thought, I could do that. Do you remember who that was? Yeah, it was John Bird. Yeah, John the Bird. Kempf, I think his last name was. And he ended up in Chicago. He's doing very well. Oh.

Yeah, he's like a fixture in Chicago. Wow. But I thought, I can do that. And so I ended up doing Sunday Nights at Q107. And after we won, or we were one of the winners of the Homegrown contest, I used to play the album. I used to play the last Red Hot Fools and I would say here's a here's a great band from Toronto and I know the lead singer he's a great guy trust me do you remember who else was on Q107 at that time like do you have any remember who who were we

talking about like was it Scruff Connors you remember? Who were we talking about? Was it Scruff Connors in the morning? Who were we talking about? I don't remember if Scruff was on. No, he wasn't, because I had to call the morning guy to wake him up, and it was...

Brother Jake. Brother Jake. Brother Jake Edwards. Brother Jake Edwards, and... It's always one or the other, by the way. It's either Scruff or Brother Jake. Christy Knight was on at night. Yeah, that's okay.

Yeah, yeah. And Derringer, I think, was just starting. I'm not sure. He might have been doing that Bob McElwitt senior show, like maybe the 5 o'clock rock report or something. Yeah, 6 o'clock. 6 o'clock.

I moved the time zone there. Crazy. And maybe, I'm trying to think, Shirley McQueen. Yeah, Shirley was there. Who I loved, by the way. I was such a big fan of Shirley McQueen, I'm telling you. Beautiful woman, great voice, great sense of humor. Yeah, lovely.

She's somewhere out west now. I'm not sure where. Calgary, I think. Oh, there you go. Or Edmonton. I had her on. Yeah, she was a Zoom remote guest. And I think it's somewhere in Alberta.

I feel like it might be Edmonton. But it could be Calgary. Right. Yeah, somewhere out west. And Shannon? Oh, yeah, yeah. Dusty Shannon? Dusty Shannon.

Yes, of course. Yeah, yeah. I didn't really know her, but I remembered her name. Actually, we would do spots for Shannonville Raceway, and I would say named after, of course, after our own Dusty Shannon.

You know, just... So how long were you on Q107 as a host? About a year. And really it was only every Sunday night for about a year. And then they had me come in for, you know, literally Christmas Eve, Christmas night, and Boxing Day night. And nobody was listening to Q107 on those nights. In fact, they had me playing, you know, they tell you what to play, right?

And it was pre-computer, so it was off of cards. They had a card file, like little four-by-five cards. And so they tell you what to play. And I would go off the cards, because they all Christmas cards, you know, and Christmas songs. Sure. But there was this Billy Squire record that I was really obsessed with the guitar sound on and the drum sound on. So in between like Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, there was like, it wasn't Stroke Me, but it was like Stroke Me. Yeah, Stroke was a big one.

Yeah. Well, here's a quick one fact, because that song has a line in it, Let Your Backbone Slide is a line in that song, Stroke, and that's what inspired the title of Maestro Fresh West's hit, Let Your Backbone Slide. No kidding. I didn't realize it was a direct thing from there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he took it from Billy Squire there.

Oh, that's cool. Yeah, well, hey, I'm full of those useless facts, and no one else cares. So if you care, I'll give you more. I do care. So you're on Q107 for about a year. And I never heard, I don't remember hearing you on Q, but I bet you would sound great on Q.

Like I would think you'd be a fantastic radio host. Yeah, thank you. I think that I would be a better one now. And, you know, and I ended up doing radio, but not as a disc jockey, but for about 11 or 12 years with Bob Reed, which I guess we'll talk about later, or maybe not at all. We'll talk about it right now, actually.

So on Q107, if you and I were on the radio on Q107, it'd be great because we'd have something to talk about and we could go to... But sitting alone in the middle of the night in 1980s Toronto, looking down on Yonge Street, because they were at Yonge and Bloor at that time. And there are no cars on the street. It's 3.30 in the morning. The only people calling in work at gas bars. And, you know, because there's really, at that time, there was nothing that was open. There's no phones and no truckers can't even call because there's no phone in the truck.

No, and no 24-hour restaurants even. There was nothing going on. Clubs didn't go past one in the morning. So I felt like nobody was listening, and it was really hard to be funny and to be personable. It got to the point where I was literally just you know introducing the records you know giving a quick weather check i wasn't allowed to tell the time because we were told that if you tell the time in the middle of the night people will go home really it's 3 30 in the morning i gotta go to bed you know right so you lose a listener you're one listener you know and i i got i got

snarky with the callers there we would occasionally get a guy you know somebody calling from you know steals and so so forth uh gas bar somewhere seriously and who would say can you play any credence and i would go go buy the record and hang it up like i just i just didn't enjoy it you know but um then uh i was a guest on bob reed's show with greg god of its uh rock talk on cfrb and i really enjoyed the experience and i enjoyed meeting Bob. And I knew Greg a little bit from the past. And so when Greg left the show and Bob asked me if I would co-host with him,

I snapped at it. I was like, I loved it. And we were a good team. We interviewed anybody you can think of, really. So, okay, I did have Godovich on the show talking about Rock Talk, but how many years you did Rock Talk? I did it for 11 years.

Wow. Yeah, he did it for like three or something like that. So everybody, like you had Eric Clapton on? He had Eric Clapton on, yeah. That was in my head somewhere. Yeah, I'm trying to think of who we had. George Harrison? No, okay.

We didn't have any dead people. You did challenge me there. Yeah, we didn't have any dead people at all. Well, he wasn't dead yet. Oh, he was dead by the time I was people. You did challenge me there. Yeah, we didn't have any dead people at all. Well, he wasn't dead yet. What years were you? Oh, he was dead by the time I was on. Okay, what years are we talking about? Two thousand and seven.

Oh, yeah, okay. He was dead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we didn't have any dead people. And really, we didn't have, like, but we had Burton Cummings and Randy Backman and, I don't know, M. Greiner. Yeah, sure. I don't know. We had Moe Berg and we had Craig Northey from The Odds. And we had, I don't know, M. Griner, and I don't know, we had Moe Berg, and we had Craig Northey from The Odds,

and we had, I don't know, Ray Davies from The Kinks. You know, I mean, there were some, Solomon Burke, the great soul artist.

Oh my God, speaking of The Wire, there's a jam, one of his songs shows up in like a montage, and yeah, it's amazing. Oh, I've got a good Solomon Burke story.

Give it to me, because I think he's one of those highly underrated, under, I know he's no longer with us, but one of the underappreciated musicians. Okay, well, it's, I'll keep it as short as I can. You don't have to. Solomon Burke, when I was working with Comfort Sound,

Solomon Burke appeared at this club called Xanadu, Club Xanadu, which was on Mount Pleasant at Eglinton, opposite the Chicken Deli, which was there much longer. Club Xanadu, their whole format was they'd have the same artist in for a week with a house band. They'd have like a soul classic artist,

and Solomon was that one that week. And we were asked, the owner of the club wanted to open a record label, and so they were going to do live albums with these soul artists, and they'd record one a week or one every couple of weeks, and we were going to go in so the first one was solomon so we go and we set up and and so forth and the um the band is smoking they're like they're just amazing and solomon comes out the first time i meet him he didn't do soundcheck first time i i see him is when he comes out and he's wearing basically a muumuu he's a really big guy and so he's wearing like a gown now solomon was a preacher i didn't know that but he owned seven churches in the los angeles area

and he preached to the audience in a like a way that was just riveting and and he so he the band starts vamping there and he's talking over top of them and he's like we drove we drove all the way through the united states of america to get here tonight like that and it goes on and on he names the states that they drove through and we crossed the border eventually and it goes on and on and on. But it's great. And the band's grooving away. We cross the border into the great Niagara region. And he goes, where we stopped by the side of the road for some fruit. And I'm just like, the whole audience is like, where the hell is this going? audience is like where the hell is this going and and he says he says uh and and we stopped and got ourselves some peaches and i took a bite into one of them peaches and all i could think about

was georgia georgia and then he's into the song, Georgia on My Mind. And it's like this 10-minute buildup to say the word Georgia. And it was just sort of so random. And there's so much detail, like unnecessary detail. So he does that, and at this point I'm sold. I'm in. I'm just loving this guy. And he was great.

So the end of the night comes. I tear down all the stuff, and Doug goes to get paid. The deal was he was going to get paid every week by the owner of the club. I go to find Doug because he's not around. And I've loaded the truck. We're ready to go. And Doug's in the office of the owner of this place. And the owner is saying to him, I'm not going to pay you.

And Doug's sort of sputtering because he didn't know what to say. And he's like, but, you know, and the guy said, Doug, I to pay you. And Doug's like, and Doug's sort of sputtering because he didn't know what to say. And he's like, but, but, you know, and the guy said, Doug, I'll pay you when the record comes out.

And it's like, that's not our deal. Right. You know, that wasn't the deal. You pay me for the recording services. I'm not a partner in your record label. You know,

you pay me, you, you pay me for the work done. And then Solomon walks in, in his muumuu, or maybe a different muumuu, I don't know. He comes in, he sort of glides in and muumuu, or maybe a different muumuu, I don't know. He comes in, he sort of glides in,

and he observes, and this is a highly tension, high tension moment, you know, and he looks from one face to the other, and I'm just standing there, you know, feeling uncomfortable, and Solomon goes, gentlemen, in his very preacher-like voice, what we need is a hamburger.

Because he was hungry. I love you doing the Solomon Burke impression. I could just do the whole episode like that. It sounds like he could read the phone book and I'd be digging it. Oh man, he was great. And then both of those guys look at him and they're like, what the hell?

And then they go back to arguing and so forth because Solomon was hungry. So years later on the, on the show, which became called In the Studio, it used to be Rock Talk. Okay. We're interviewing him and I've got him on the phone and I say to him, uh, uh, I tell him that story, maybe slightly abbreviated, but I tell him that story and he laughs his guts out. Like he's, he's like, oh my God, I said that? And I said, yeah, you did.

And in the background while we're talking, I hear beep, beep, like that. So I say after he stopped laughing, I say, Solomon, sorry, what's that beeping in the background? He goes, oh, that's my chicken. I got it in the microwave. The guy was so food oriented. It was amazing. He's got the, well, when Homer Simpson had to gain the weight so he could work from home because of a disability, and he wore that umu that the fat guy wear. Yeah, yeah.

Solomon got so big that when he appeared live, he had a throne that they would put him on. It was a big wooden carved chair, and they'd put him on, and he'd come out, and he wore a cape and a crown. And then they'd seat him on. It was a big wooden carved chair and they'd put him on and he'd come out and he wore a cape and a crown. Wow. And then they'd seat him on the throne and he'd throw his cape off. I'm not kidding.

The cape would then run off stage on its own because his valet was a little person who was hidden underneath the cape and would run off the stage. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, he was a showman, an absolute showman and a real delight to talk to, I gotta say. Wow. sage. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, he was a showman, an absolute showman,

and a real delight to talk to, I've got to say. Wow. Yeah. Okay, but I actually have a couple of homegrown contests here. No, but I'm going to give you some gifts. I know that we had a misunderstanding about the start time, but you're here, and you're doing fantastic, and I know you set some QEW,

some Gardner speed records maybe getting here, but here you are. Okay, so here's what you're going home with. This makes it all worthwhile right here, man. I'm going to give you some great stuff. So I have, well, this one I'll email to you, but it's a $75 gift card, a virtual gift card you can use at chefdrop.ca.

So you go to Chef... Seriously, you get a great meal for that $75 voucher, gift card, or whatever. And chefdrop.ca has fantastic chefs and restaurants. They're pre-prepared meal kits that get delivered to your front door.

And delicious. I actually had a Buy Mark burger from Chef Drop just on Friday night. And everybody who listens to this program should check out Chef Mike Angeloni. He was over here on Friday

and talking more about Chef Drop. But that's for you, Blair, the 75 bucks. Thank you. Enjoy that. But speaking of food, I think Solomon Burke would have appreciated

that Chef Drop gift. I got more food coming your way, but I want the listeners to know if you fotms go to chef drop.ca and use the promo code f-o-t-m-b-o-g-o that's for buy one get one you can buy one get one 50 off so that's a fantastic deal if you use that promo code f-o-t-m-b-o-g-o do it at chefdrop.ca there's a case of fresh craft beer from great lakes brewery you're taking home with you wow well that's fantastic delicious fresh super fresh too i just picked it up uh always fresh from great lakes but wonderful partners i was there actually on the patio with uh with a friend on on Saturday. And it was just beautiful, man. Beautiful day.

You're on the patio, fresh beer in the glass. Nothing's better. And much love to the good people at Great Lakes Brewery. Blair, I have a, in my freezer right now, I have a large lasagna for you from Palma Pasta. No joke. That red box is empty right now, but when you leave, that red box on the table

is going to be full of lasagna. Oh my gosh. You had no idea, did you? I didn't. I actually didn't have any idea. Did Pete Fowler take care of you like this? That's what I want to know now. Pete Fowler ordered some nice pizza, and it hit the spot.

I kid. Pizza's a good man. There's a sticker on top of the red box as well. That's courtesy of StickerU.com. It's a Toronto Mike sticker. They make great stickers over there. If you're looking for any Blair Packham or Jitters stickers or decals or temporary tattoos or whatnot, you go to stickeru.com to do that. And I want to give some love to Ridley Funeral Home. They've been pillars of this community. You're in New Toronto right now. Don't think you're a Mimico, my friend. You're in New Toronto. They've been pillars of this community. You're in New Toronto right now. Don't think you're in Mimico, my friend. You're in New Toronto. They've been pillars of the community

since 1921. And they're wonderful people. If anyone has any questions about anything of that nature, have a chat with Brad and the team at Ridley Funeral Home. Go to RidleyFuneralHome.com. And also, speaking of this neighborhood, Mike Majeski's been ripping up the GTA real estate scene. He's in the know in Mimico. And you can go to realestatelove.ca to reach out to Mike Majeski if you're looking to buy and or sell in the next six months. Just let Mike know that Toronto Mike sent you, and he'll take care of you.

He's a good FOTM himself. So much love to everybody who's helping to fuel the real talk here. Okay, so Blair, for the kids that are listening, just remind us, I'm just old enough to remember all this, but what exactly was Q107's homegrown contest? They had a contest every year. I'm sure it was mandated by the CRTC for local content, but they had a talent contest every year. And I'm not it was mandated by the CRTC for local content,

but they had a talent contest every year. And I'm not sure how many years it ran, maybe 10 years. And I thought it was a pretty big deal locally. Q107 at that point was playing new music. They weren't playing classic rock. And so they would champion new bands and so forth. And lots of bands would enter. And I remember I placed solo, I placed in the first year that they had it. They played me on the radio before the jitters existed.

And I remember being so thrilled to hear my song on the radio. It was really great. So, you know, for local bands and local artists, it was a great thing to sort of shoot for. We ended up, in the 1986 Homegrown, we ended up sharing third place with another band. None of the other bands in the top three, can I remember, actually? That was my next question.

Yeah. The band that won... Killer Dwarves. First place. No, no. The band that won first place. Killer Dwarves. No, no. The band that won first place was Everest. Don't remember Everest. Well, that's the thing.

And I didn't know anything about them at the time. So no disrespect to anybody who might have been in Everest or friends with them or anything like that. But I don't know anything about them. And they won first place. We were the only band that went on to get a record deal. Wow. I know the band that shared third place with us, I think they were called Simon Chase,

the leader of that band. He went on to great success in the point-of-sale sort of cash register business. Oh, yeah, the POS, the software? Yeah, software. Oh, he did very well. Good for him. Yeah, yeah. So not kidding.

He made real money. Shout out to him. Oh, yes, he did very well good for him yeah yeah so not not kidding shout out to him oh yes he made real money yeah yeah and and i remember him being a good guy i don't don't really know anything about him beyond that now is it uh so this record deal with it's with capital records right yep the beatles label wow wow that meant a lot to me and uh the debut album is self-titled because It was just The Jitters. Yep. And you attribute the success of Last of the Red Hot Fools. That was kind of the final piece to the puzzle that got you signed by Capitol. Yeah, I would say so.

The fact that we... It took a long time to get signed by Capitol. We had the video in 1984. We had the Homegrown Contest in 1986. And finally, we met producer Paul Gross, not the actor, but the producer who owned Phase One Recording Studio. And he called, and he had been at his hairdresser's getting his hair cut. And the jitters came on Q107 while he was getting his hair cut.

And he said, this is good. I like these guys. I wonder who this is or whatever. And the woman cutting his hair, Nancy he said this is good i like these guys or i wonder who this is or whatever and the the woman cutting his hair nancy roshan uh she said oh they're friends of mine and he said i want to talk to them so next thing you know paul gross calls and he was willing to make a record on spec and if we got a deal then we you know then the studio would get paid and if not no no money changed hands oh wow yeah so it was great and he was very generous that way and he was a really really good guy um and he um and he did he

did a really good job producing the record but he did have some very definite ideas that didn't jibe with ours in terms of the sort of the poppiness of the record but it's not like but how so like well i mean it's not like we were like a heavy underground band or anything like that. But we were a lot rockier live, like a lot rockier live. And like more guitar stuff and more guitar solos and more guitar noise and so forth. And more snark. I'm pretty sarcastic on stage. Or can be.

Right. And I don't think the record captured any of that. But that wasn't what Paul wanted. And at that point, we'd been together for six years. So we were sort of tired of scuffling around. We wanted a record deal. And if this was the record that Capitol Records wanted, I don't know, other people, I suppose, could say we were sellouts.

If we were, we didn't get paid that much to sell. That's the worst, when you sell out and it's not a big payday. Yeah, I don't know that we sold out. We made a record that we're proud of, but it wasn't quite. The next record was more like what we wanted to make, and it sold less. So, you know, maybe capital was on to something. Okay. Actually, I was going to add the other Blair.

His question's almost time for your question, Blair. I know you're listening at home, or maybe you're on a walk or a jog. Who knows? Maybe you're in the car, all the other possible. Maybe you're on a kayak on the Humber River. Who knows? But it is coming. It's almost time.

But here's what I'm going to do, Blair, and I hope this is cool. I'm going to play just a little bit of a couple of bands that are not the Jitters. And then I'm going to play some Closer Every Day. And we're just going to talk about like what the sound, it sounds, and Paul Gross, by the way,

for those who don't know, he might be, he was like, he would produce like Lee Aaron. Yeah, Lee Aaron. Saga.

Brighton Rock, Saga. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Lee Aaron, here's my fun fact for you. Do you know Lee Aaron was,

that was the name of her band. The band was Lee Aaron. She was Karen something. Karen Greening. Right. And she took, sort of like Alice Cooper who was the name of her band. The band was Lee Aaron. She was Karen something. Karen Greening. Right. And she took, sort of like Alice Cooper, who took the name of his band, back to Bob Ezrin here.

Right. But Lee Aaron just took the name of her band. Right. I had no idea. That's what I'm here for. At least three fun facts I've delivered for you today. Listeners are like, oh, that one again. Okay.

So this is not, this is a band you played with. I want to play a little of this and then a little of another Canadian band and then back to Closer Every Day and we're going to get into it here, Blair. Let's do it. You don't know how I feel You never know how I feel When I needed you to come around You always tried to put me down

But I know, girl, believe me when I say You are so, so, you're gonna know, girl, forgive me when I say it's true. I should have told you gonna pay, girl, but it's all right. All right, girl, you can hurt me. All right, so this is not the jitters, of course. That's Huey Lewis and the news, but it's all right. So there's a little Huey. You did play with, you opened for Huey in front of whatever,

24,000 and exhibition. Good times, good times. Okay, so there's Huey Lewis in the news and just a little bit of another Canadian band. Here we go. What decade do you think this is from? All right.

This is not the jitters either. This is, of course, that's Doug and the Slug. So, okay, a few questions here. One is, have you ever been mistaken for Doug and the Slug? Oh, my God. All the time. And it wasn't on purpose. It's funny. I've become friends with Simon Kendall, who was the co-songwriter in Doug and the Slugs

with Doug, with the late Doug. Right, the late Doug Bennett. Yeah. And he told me that they sometimes got mixed up with the Jitters as well. But Doug and the Slugs definitely preceded us. Right. And I was never particularly a fan. Okay, so this is wild for me.

Because I can hear the similarity. Yeah, so it always sounded a little to me and others that maybe Doug and the Slugs, that was maybe Canada's answer to Huey Lewis in the news. Okay, I never thought that, but no. But yeah, I can hear the similarity in the voice. And then, here, let me give it a dug here. So here, let's play a little,

let's just play another, again, much like Last of the Red Hot Fools, this is another jam I think most listeners of Toronto Mike are familiar with. This is a great song, by the way. Love it. Here we go. Every day I try a little bit harder. Every day I get a little bit smarter. Every day I bend the rules a little more. Every day it gets a little bit nearer.

Every day it gets a little bit clearer. Every day it gets much better than before. And it gets bigger. Every single time I'm near you, it gets better. Every single time we touch, it's getting better every way. And it's getting closer every day. I still dig hearing this jam. And you wrote this?

Yeah, I wrote it with the rest of the band. This was one of the few songs we wrote together. Oh. Yeah. It's also catchy AF. Thank you. Yeah, you know, and I know that Doug and the Suggs song predates it,

but seriously, it was never in our minds. So not even from like Paul Gross? I mean, not maybe Huey Lewis and maybe because you're... No, because first of all, we wouldn't have produced it that way. It's swimming in reverb. Again, we went along with it willingly. It's not like we were held hostage

or anything like that, but it's swimming in reverb and all the recordings we made didn't have, well because Comfort Sound didn't own a good reverb at that point. So it's swimming in reverb and really, I'm not kidding. Songs can come from anywhere from the smallest spark of an idea and in this case, I'm not kidding. It was, I wanted to put and it gets bigger every single time I'm near you in a song. I'm not kidding it was i wanted to put and it gets bigger every single time i'm near you

in a song i'm not kidding right so so last of the red hot fools comes from that title line and the i've been a fool business you know and that's where it comes from and the rest is sort of constructed to to justify having that there right and the same thing is true with this song just like when solomon burke just needs to get to Georgia. Yeah. And he'll meander his way to I Ate a Peach. Exactly. And you know where your peaches come from?

Here we go. Yeah. Okay. I love that backstory. And I would never hear this song quite the same way again. But if we go back, like what kind of... I don't even have a sense of... I just know I would... This seemed to be everywhere when I was growing up listening to

Top 40 radio and stuff. It just seemed like it was alongside... It was there alongside I don't know, like a Peter Gabriel song and a Phil Collins song. It was just there. We got played a lot on the radio. We really benefited. We were... But there's a name for that. Turntable song it was just there we got played a lot on the radio we we really benefited we were but but you

know there's a name for that uh turntable band right so our turntable record or turntable song or whatever it it gets played on the radio but it doesn't actually sell that much i mean it sold we sold about 40 000 copies of each of our records which by today's standards is very respectable but back then it was enough to get us dropped for the on the second album so uh i'm i'm pleased with what we did i'm proud of it you know and so forth but it's you know it was and it was 10 years of my life spent with my my best friends and uh we're still friends we we you know at the end of the band we had a rough patch but we're still friends so i love those guys and i'm glad that we were uh you know i'm glad that we had that time together really so um yeah i'm time now for blair's question because if i what'll happen is i'll end up forgetting to ask it and

i'll make you come back so this is not you of course this is another blair uh 5151 i think is his handle uh from one blair to another he says louder than words is one of my favorite albums he goes Red Hot Fools sounded like a really good Doug and the Slugs knockoff but this album was a great follow up looking forward to the chat

so Blair also hears a little jitters Doug and the Slugs similarities but I think a lot of people might but I will say that this album, Louder Than Words, tough to find. Like, what can you tell me about that? Well, it got deleted fairly quickly from, it's on Spotify, so it's easier to find now, but it was deleted from the Capitol Records EMI catalog fairly quickly.

We made it, it's definitely, it set me on the path that I'm on now as a songwriter working with Jules Shear, who was the producer and co-writer on all those songs. Um, really set me on the path that I've been on ever since as a songwriter in terms of paying close attention to the words and making sure that I say what I mean. And I'm, and I'm, I'm getting across what I feel and what I mean and I didn't do that as much before really like Closer Every Day it was a whim it was like this will be funny you know having having that line it gets bigger every single time I'm near you right you know the the bridge I

shouldn't say this because I'm it's self-deprecating and people always say you shouldn't put yourself down but I always think like I'm just being real um the bridge for closer every day has some of the worst lyrics ever written in a bridge like seriously i'm not going to point it out you can play it at another time if you wish um but uh really like just lame lame-o and i i will i have never done that since and i will never do it again i the words matter and writing those songs with Jules Scheer made, brought that to my attention. So songwriting wise, louder than words is heads and shoulders above anything else the Jitters ever

did. And, uh, you know, vibe wise, it's maybe a little less rocky than we would have been, but song like melody and lyrics wise, it's,

I'm very, very proud of those songs can i play a song from that album please i feel like this is like unlike those other jitters songs i played where i think most listeners are very familiar with this one less so and i think it's a gorgeous song so i just want to play i'll play it and you'll hear it in your headphones. I can see you looking back Wondering what it is we've done We had no choice but to set this fire There's nothing left to do but run The bridge is burning The bridge is burning

Every story has to end The bridge is burning The bridge is burning, the bridge is burning, we'll never go back there again. The Houses of My Past Where the day-to-day goes too slow And friends grow all too fast Now that we are free at last Our world can be anything

the bridge is burning the bridge is burning every story has to end I don't want to fade it down I'm digging it buddy, honestly I'm really enjoying hearing it too Every story has to end. I don't want to fade it down. I'm digging it, buddy.

Honestly. I'm really enjoying hearing it too. I haven't heard it in quite a while. I don't even know when. Wow. Yeah. It brings back memories of being in the studio, singing that vocal,

writing the song with Jules. He brought a whole new perspective for me To songwriting Not only in taking care with the words And saying what you mean And meaning what you say But also Just a different approach to A deeper approach to lyric writing

You know The cliche You know, well You're burning a bridge It's always seen you know, you're burning a bridge. It's always seen as a negative. You're burning a bridge, meaning that you'll never be able to be friends with that person again or whatever. And Jules, he suggested that, like, we wrote the lyric together, but he suggested the idea. How about the bridge is burning?

And we were like, and I was like, you mean like, like, it's over and it's awful? And he said, no, it's over and it's good. And we'll never go that way again. All those narrow-minded people who used to put us down and so forth, we never have to go back to them again. It's just you and me. It's about being in our little world together. And it's, I don't know, it's sad and it's beautiful

and it's also optimistic at the same time. Like, it's more complex. And the fact that you can put that in a song, that was a revelation to me. To me, songs were much more simple until then. And, you know, in a way, thanks a lot, Jules, it kind of ruined it because it makes songwriting way harder. I can imagine.

Yeah. So this, of course, again, this is The Bridge is Burning. Great jam from the second album, which Louder Than Words, which Capitol deleted. Like, they could just do that. They could just do whatever they want, I guess. Yeah. Nowadays, when everything is available, you know,

they don't have to delete anything. But, you know, like record stores, you know, physical record stores could only hold so many titles. So, you know, and warehouses could only hold so many titles. So I can understand why they would do that, you know. Okay, now I'm going to play some other songs that you wrote for other people, including a woman you've actually already referenced

in this conversation. But first I just need the, in your words, like, so shortly after this album... So pretty pretty holy smokes okay why did the jitters break up after what

why we were we were starting to hate each other and and there were real tensions particularly between

me and and the bass player between Matthew Greenberg and myself and and he's

he's a great guy and a really really good bass player and a really good singer too um and funny funny as hell but um but there was some tension between us and i'm not really sure what it was but you know at that point we've been together for 10 years and uh so when when we actually got dropped by the label we had more steam in us we had more juice in us we could have done more but i just felt like you know what i'm just gonna go do something else and uh it was kind of like take my ball and go

home frankly but um uh and but we all agreed like no nobody objected when i said you know i think i'm done they were like yeah me too everybody said that it was unanimous so it was amicable and it's funny you know because we broke up and then it was amicable at not. But then once the pressure was released, once we weren't fighting to get new songs written and to get a new record deal and so forth, we took all these stupid gigs like playing in pool halls and stuff like that. And we had the greatest time. We really did.

It was so much fun. So now we play once a year um and we love it we love it and we hang out you know more often than that but not much more you know i'm gonna play a jam again a woman that you referenced uh and we'll get this story when i fade it down but uh here let's listen to this one. He drops a ball, he drops another one. She walks a mile, she walks another one. Spin another one, spin another one.

You must spin another one, spin another one. You must spin another one, spin another one. You must spin another one, spin another one You must spin another one, spin another one He lost a battle He lost another one She cracked a smile She cracked another one She turned a corner She turned another one

He shot a child He shot another one Spin another one, spin another one. You must spin another one, spin another one. You must spin another one, spin another one. You must spin another one, spin another one. Blair, who are we listening to here? That's Arlene Bishop. Arlene Bishop, I met in January of 1990 the jitters were still together and would be for another almost year

I went into the cabana room at the Spadina Hotel and there was Arlene I had been told that she was a lesbian and that's I'm only mentioning that because I, I asked my friend who we were going to see her with, I said, just, is she pretty? You know, because I didn't, they said she was really great and really nice and so forth. And, and they said, is she pretty?

And I, or I said, is she pretty? And they said, well, I don't think she likes boys. And so on our first date, um, I said, they tell me you're a lesbian. And she said, no. And I said, well, you're going to have to prove it. Lame-o. Seduction line. But anyway, we ended up getting married.

And I loved her. I love her still. She's fantastic. I produced her records. Was in her band. We are very, very amicably divorced. we are very very amicably divorced we have a beautiful son named Owen who has taken up guitar

two years ago yeah it'll be two years in no I think it'll only be a year anyway how old is Owen? Owen is 20 years old and he showed zero interest in playing music of any kind and then suddenly took up the guitar

and now he's playing at a Clapton level well no no no that's that's wrong that's that's a lie what I mean is he's playing Clapton licks and he's playing them very very skillfully and wow yeah and you know give him another six months and I'll have him in my band and I'm not kidding and I have high standards um so uh it's it's amazing his progress so but anyway anyway, Arlene, yeah, she's fantastic. She's a great singer-songwriter. Continues to play and sing, but not very often, of course, with the pandemic, not really at all. But she made a few records after, like another three records after the three we made together. And continues to write and play.

And I'm good for you on the amicable divorce. That's always best, especially for Owen. Well, that's who it was for, really. I think if we didn't have Owen, I think it's possible we would have just drifted apart and probably been amicable because that's the kind of people we are. But we wouldn't have been loving and close,

and I think we are. I know we are because of Owen. The secret to an amicable split like that is to leave lawyers out of it. That's really the secret. Right, and that's what we did. And also leave your ego out of it because yes, she was hurt.

Yes, I was hurt. We decided to just plow through that somehow and make our goal to be loving and warm towards each other I remember I was visiting shortly after we we started splitting up and it was it took a while to split up but I was I had already moved out to somebody's basement and and I came back to visit for dinner I think um and uh you know we're we're getting along fine it wasn't without I mean certainly we had our share of tears and harsh words and so forth. But at that point, in that moment, it was just fine

and we were joking around about something and the phone rang. And I picked it up and a person said, Blair, are you okay? They had, I think, just heard that Arlene and I were splitting. And I said, yeah, I'm great. I'm great. Hey, listen, just a sec. Arlene and I were splitting. And I said, yeah, I'm great. I'm great. Hey, listen, just, just a sec. Arlene, Arlene, so-and-so wants to know how we're doing. And she yelled from the other room. She went, best divorce ever. And, and it really was the best divorce ever. That's, that's, that's great to hear. That's great to hear. Okay. My friend, I know I've kept you a

long time, but I just want to, uh but do you want to name check some other artists that you co-wrote songs with? Because there's some pretty great artists. Yeah, of course, nothing really. There weren't any big hits or anything like that, unfortunately. I wrote with Alanis Morissette. That was fun. While I was with Arlene, I may have been married,

but I wasn't dead. I had the hugest crush on Alanis. And we didn't even finish the song. may have been married, but I wasn't dead. I had the hugest crush on Alanis. And, uh, she wrote, uh, we wrote, um, we didn't even finish the song. She was writing with a whole bunch of Toronto writers at the time. Like, is this the Glenn Ballard era? This is just before, just before she met Glenn Ballard. So she was writing all kinds, with all kinds of people in Toronto. And I was one of those people. Um, and man, I had the biggest crush on her. It was amazing. Yeah. Well, she was, uh, on was uh on you can't do that on television

this was the yeah yeah but this was a little in between yeah so she was at that point she was she was 22 right and i was 34 and i remember doing the math thinking well you know that could work and i'm and i'm sorry arlene to tell you this you know on a podcast but at that time i did briefly consider you know you know it had had alanis decided she would run away with me i probably would have we didn't have olin yet so there was less at stake understood understood and then maybe in this alternative multiverse this other universe uh maybe you have a song on jagged little pill yes and it sold it sold 30 million copies so i would have i would have done well is that all?

yeah I hear it did quite well that jagged little pill here but also I see Andy Stokansky that's pretty cool and to bring us up to speed I hate to spend so much time on the jitters and then say oh and then the next 20 years but tell us

maybe if you could just tell us a little bit about what you're up to these days, your solo career 20 years is what happened. But we did, tell us maybe if you could just tell us a little bit about, you know, what you're up to these days, your solo career. And I know you've done a bunch of like television work. Yeah. Well, here's the thing.

So like about a week after I had that meeting with the Jitters where we broke up that I described, a friend of mine called me, a guy I didn't know that well, but he wrote music for TV

and particularly TSN. And he said, TSN wants a new hockey uh theme for their nhl show um and they they name checked huey lewis so and so i don't remember the other person or the jitters that's what they wanted it to sound like and this guy said to me bruce fowler is his name great guy he said um he said i thought to myself i don't know huey lewis but i know blair packham from the jitters so i'll call. So he called me and he asked me if I'd be interested in doing it. And the money was really good.

And so that led me to writing a lot of stuff with Bruce and then separately from Bruce as well. I've done quite a bit of TV stuff over the last, you know, 30 years. The thing, you know, I teach at Seneca College. And when I tell my students who are like 18, 19 years old about the jitters, they're like, ho-hum, whatever. But then I say, I co-wrote the words to Beyblade. And seriously, they go, no way. And they get all excited. That is a big deal.

I got a seven-year-old boy who's still all about the Beyblades. Does he like Rescue Heroes? That name's not ringing a bell. He's really big on it. It's still Pokemon. I'm trying to think about the babylings. Does he like Rescue Heroes? I don't, that name's not ringing a bell. He's really big on, it's still Pokemon. I'm trying to think of the big things, but maybe Rescue Heroes. How about The Adventures of Chuck and Friends? Maybe.

It's on Netflix. So, yeah, I wrote the song to that. You didn't write the song to Miraculous by any chance? No, no. The Ladybug. Oh, that'd be good. Because that's the five-year-old's favorite show. Right, right.

Yeah, well, yeah, no. But yeah, so I did a bunch of that. That's cool. And I made a living doing that. But I revived my singer-songwriter career in the early 2000s. Good. And I just loved playing.

Well, Everything That's Good, that was your one. Yeah, that was the first one. And then Could Have Been King. Yep, and then took many years, took 13 years to follow that up the one, and then Could Have Been King. And then it took many years, it took 13 years to follow that up. Because I was busy writing TV music, I was busy getting divorced, I was busy taking care

of my mom who was dying, unfortunately. Yeah, a whole bunch of things happened. But then I put out a record called Unpopular Pop, and that was my most recent one. And I've got another one in the can, ready to go, basically, with my new band, The Impossible Dream.

Okay, because when Pete Fowler was on the red carpet show, there's a pirate live stream at live.torontomic.com, not recorded or anything. It's just to watch behind-the-scenes stuff or whatever. He was thinking you were going to bring,

he thought you might be bringing a guitar. So you can come back at some point. Love to. You back at some point and with the guitar and we'll hear it and i just want to ask you about a gentleman i recently had on the program i know you said you're teaching at uh seneca right yep but you were teaching at humber college i was was that down here yeah okay lakeshore campus right yeah you can walk there from here but But you did some work. Tell me you did some work with the legend that is Rick Emmett. Rick and I became friends when we were both co-vice presidents of the Songwriters Association of Canada. And we became good friends. I love Rick Emmett.

And he honestly was not really that aware of his work in Triumph because it wasn't my kind of thing. I mean, he's an incredible guitar player. I knew that. But I'm more aware of his solo work. And then we founded, so I taught with him and for him at Humber College. And then we founded what is now called Song Studio, the summer songwriting workshop that I do. We're going into our 18th year.

Rick isn't directly involved anymore, but he still sort of advises us. But he worked with us for, really, for the first 10 years or so. And yeah, I love that guy. Boy, what a great guy. They're having a bit of, Triumph is having kind of a moment.

There's like a documentary about them. I know Rick wrote a book of poetry. Yes. That he's very proud of. And what else is going on with Triumph is having kind of a moment. There's like a documentary about them. I know Rick wrote a book of poetry. Yes. That he's very proud of. And what else is going on with Triumph? But basically, I don't know if they're inducted into this, that, and the other. I don't know. But Rick Emmett was a great conversation with him.

I'll just shout out a band that Rick taught at Humber College that are having some success now. They were back here this summer. Mono Whales, they're called. Yes, I know them too. They've been on my radio show, my former radio show. Sally. They're great. Yeah.

They're lovely people, and they're so enthusiastic and fun and great songs. Mono Whales. Got to thank, once again, Pete Fowler from the lost indie city uh for inviting me to his backyard so i could hear my buddy uh stephen stanley and finally get to see blair packham who i like i said i'm like this guy this guy would be great on the uh show and you were buddy i'm so glad you uh came by today i had a great time i really did you going to have to come back with the guitar next time. I'm going to hold you to that.

I'd love to. Honestly, anytime. Just say when. And the nice thing is that fully vaxxed people can even record in the basement. If it's minus 20 out here, we can go into the basement. I'm fully vaxxed. Ready to go. Fully vaxxed.

Getting ready for that booster anytime now. But this was awesome. Great pleasure finally having Blair Packham from the Jitters on the program. In fact, this song, by the way, has Stephen Stanley on it. But this is a lowest of the low song

from Shakespeare, My Butt. Oh, of course. Yeah. Rosie and Gray. And it's funny, we're talking about Stephen Stanley and here he is. And that

brings us to the end of our 926th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at TorontoMikeBlair. Shout out your social media handles where we can follow you. BlairPackham.com is the website, but also at Blair Packham or at Blair-o-matic. Yeah, Blair-o-matic. That's right.

Twitter and Instagram. Well, when I drop this in like 20 minutes, I'll tag you on it so people can follow Blair, find out what's going on with him. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. Chef Drop is at GetChefDrop. Again, FOTMs can buy one, get one 50% off

with the promo code FOTMBOGO at chefdrop.ca. McKay's CEO Forums. They're at McKay's CEO Forums. They have a great podcast called the CEO Edge Podcast. I urge you to subscribe and listen. I put a new episode on torontomic.com every single week. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Blair, make sure I don't forget to get that out of the freezer for you, man. You're going to love it.

You're going to love it. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home is at Ridley FH and Mike Majeski of Remax Specialists Majeski Group. They're at Majeski Group Homes on Instagram. See you all tomorrow and my special guest is Bruce

Barker. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit roamphone.ca to get started. Picking up trash and then putting down rogues And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am

But who gives a damn because Everything is coming up Rosy and gray Yeah the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms me today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine

And it won't go away Cause everything is Rosy and gray Well I've kissed you in France Cause everything is rosy and green Well, I've kissed you in France And I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name

And I've seen the sun go down On Chaclacour But I like it much sun go down on Chaclacour. But I like it much better going down on you. Yeah, you know that's true. Because everything is coming up rosy and green. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms us today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah