Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Blair Packham Kicks Out the Jams: Toronto Mike'd #1366

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

In this 1366th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike catches up with Blair Packham while he kicks out the jams. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Electronic Products Recycling Association, Raymond James Canada and Moneris. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1366 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entre GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh. Homemade Italian pasta and entrees. From Palma Pasta. In Mississauga and Oakville.

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who want to remain knowledgeable, informed, and focused on long-term success. Season 5 of Yes, We Are Open, an award-winning podcast hosted by FOTM, Al Grego, Herman Aris,

and Red Glee Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, returning to kick out more jams is Blair Packham. Blair, don't say hello. I only have one question for you. Are you ready, Blair Packham, to kick out the jams? Yeah! ¶¶

¶¶ ¶¶ I'm in the middle without any plans. I'm a boy and I'm a man. I'm 18 and I don't know what I want. 18, I just don't know what I want. 18, I gotta get away. I've gotta get out of this place I'll go running In outer space again

I've gotta get away Blair Packham, starting hot. Tell me about the first jam we're kicking out, Alice Cooper. The line where you're finishing, where you're fading it down. I got a baby's brain and an old man's heart. And I always wanted to say, and they're both in the trunk of my car, you know, because it rhymes. Locked in the trunk of a car, that's Gordon Downey.

There you go. The reason I love this song, I first heard it when I was 13. first heard it when I was 13 and the idea of being 18 seemed remote and seemed like I could hear the angst and I felt it all. Maybe I was 11 or 12, I don't know, but I was young. Whenever the album came out, it was new in my house and my sister brought it home and it represented the dark side of life and the guitars and the sound of it was so, so big and dark and I don't know, adolescent angsty. That's the perfect age. I think if you're a teenager and you hear this song,

it hits differently. I heard it also like similar age to you, maybe a couple of years older than that. When I first heard I'm 18 and of course many, many, many years later, but loved it. Like I loved it on first listen

and I bought the Alice Cooper's Greatest Hits which had this on and I've told this story too many times on Toronto Mic but I still go back to that Alice Cooper Greatest Hits that has this jam on it. I, man, this album, Love It To Death. So what is this album's name? It's called Love It To Death.

Oh, I thought you loved it to death. I did Love It To Death and on the cover, the Alice Cooper band, this is back when he had a band that was... Well, the band was called Alice Cooper. Yeah, the band was called Alice Cooper, and the band were all the same guys that he came up with, right? This was his original band.

And they're all on the cover, and they're playing Gibson SGs, and the bass player's playing an EBO or an eb3 and but they're all shaped they've got the guitars have the like devil's horns and they just look evil and and alice is is wearing tons of makeup and again as a 12 or 13 year old i was flipped out and and i read the the um credits on it as well i knew i know every song i picked i'm 18 just because people know it but i could have picked any song on that record um but credited on piano on one of the songs is Toronto Bob and I'm like who's that and then I realized oh one of the the co-producers with Garth Richardson is Bob Ezrin right and so

that's a name that stuck with me and then and then when the Jitters got to work with Bob Ezrin in the 80s I was so thrilled not because he had done The Wall for Pink Floyd, not because he had done Switching to Glide for the Kings, but because he had done Alice Cooper. So it was really heavy in my life. So from Toronto Bob to Toronto Mike. There you go. Are you guys related?

He did produce an album. I want to say he did something with Splashin' Boots. This is a local kids entertainment duo, and they've been on Toronto Mic'd a couple of times. And I feel like there was a Bob Ezrin-produced Splashin' Boots production. There might be. He does all kinds of stuff that doesn't get celebrated. Not to say that he's not successful.

Obviously, he's wildly successful, but we hear about the wildly successful stuff, and we don't hear about the other stuff all right out of the gates i love it with some alice cooper yeah i'm going to give people some context like what beautiful voice is this so i would urge everybody who hasn't heard it yet to go back to uh episode 926 that was in october 2021 so that wasn't you know i feel like i've known you a lot longer than two years it feels like it doesn't feel like I've known you a lot longer than two years. It feels like it. It doesn't feel like we've known each other longer.

We hugged. We did hug. I said, I said, are you a hugger? Like I asked for consent. Totally a hugger. I appreciate that. Yeah. You never know.

Like some people don't, don't touch me. That's true. That's an awkward moment. Or we get really uncomfortable. But you did turn your head away. And I thought, what, have I got bad breath? Like, you know, I wasn't going to kiss you. I didn't want to find out.

Okay. October 2021, episode 926. So this description will give people a little context as to kiss you. I didn't want to find out. Okay. October 2021, episode 926. So this description will give people a little context as to who you are. And I really do think people should go back. I feel like you were super late for that episode. I was half an hour late. Which is like unacceptable. I know.

Not like today. You were four minutes late. I know. Thank you for counting. You're passive aggressive. Okay. Mike chats with Blair Packham about his years in the jitters, his time on Q107, last of the Red Hot Fools, Closer Every Day.

Those were a couple of jams you probably heard on the radio. Working, writing for other people, your time on TV and films. You did a lot of popular, like, what was the big kid show you did the song for? Oh, Beyblade. Beyblade. Yeah, yeah. But there's a whole bunch of them. Very, very, very prolific.

And we talked for 90 minutes in the backyard, I believe, because that's October 2021. Yeah, it was great, actually. I thought, wow, what a resourceful guy to set it up outside. And it was beautiful. And maybe we should just shut this down and get back out there. I think that's where our vibe is here. I did go on Twitter and say, if you have a question for blair let me know this is not your second appearance so that that

was the initial blair packham but i won't bore you with the rest because you've been on the show many many times but that's where we get like the bio the 101 on blair but you're back and scooter dobson do you know the name scooter dobson yeah i sure do because that sounds like a fake name no no his name is Scott. And he's a filmmaker, documentary filmmaker, and a really talented guy and has said some of the funniest things I've ever heard anybody say. Dear friend of my dear friend, Paul Myers.

And yeah, Scott Dobson. Scooter. I never call him Scooter, I have to say. Just to be fair. Yeah, on Twitter he calls himself Scooter. And he basically wrote have to say, just to be fair. Yeah, on Twitter he calls himself Scooter, and he basically wrote in to say, I want to come up with some smart-ass questions, but I can't because Blair Packham is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet.

Oh. Damn him. That's so nice. Well, he's a lovely fellow who I don't see often enough. When Paul Myers still lived in Toronto or when he's visiting, there's a chance I might see Scott. Because his brother lives here. Yeah, and Peter's a big follower of your show.

Peter's a big follower of the show, and he also reminds me periodically that he is madly in love with Palma Pasta. This sounds like an ad, and it kind of is, except this is legit. Peter says, there's nothing like Palma Pasta, and I do have a lasagna for you, Blair. Oh, that's fantastic. From Palma pasta. I hope that this box sitting in front of me

wasn't just a tease. It's in my freezer. Yeah. And another note for those listeners who are interested, I also told Peter that next time Paul is in town, that Peter and Paul

should come in the basement here, like both of them together to just shoot the breeze. So there's an open invitation for Peter Myers to come on when Paul Myers is in town. Would they have to split the pasta though? Yeah, well, there's a lot there, man.

Don't get greedy on me. Don't get greedy. And I'll tell the people on live.torontomic.com that I'm going to restart the live stream, but this will not affect the podcast listeners. Most people are listening

to us via podcast. I'm going to like race into jam number two, and then I have some catching up to do with you, Mr. Packham. So thank you for coming here today. I will say that the pasta doesn't come alone. I do have fresh beer for you from Great Lakes Brewery. It pairs nicely with the Palma pasta. Yes.

And I was there yesterday. Delicious. So check out Great Lakes Brewery. They're available across this fine province. Let's get to out of bed. Today's the day you hold the world with your song. Go now, go now, go now, help escalate. Angels come down, help with this Parade to you The one whose words

Will ring Let him sing Let him be heard This is The time This is The day That we've been waiting for

All the world Will stop to watch you shine. Another great jam called Shine. Tell me about this song and the artist. The artist is Andy Stochanski, and he's a Toronto boy, Toronto guy, but he lives in Los Angeles. He played drums with Andy DeFranco for years and then decided he would start writing songs, or maybe he was already writing songs, I'm not sure. But when he did, he wrote these incredible pop songs.

And I don't use, I never use the word pop as an insult, by the way, and I look down on people who do. Because I feel like pop is everything other than jazz and classical, maybe, and it usually, to me, indicates that there's a catchy chorus and it's uplifting somehow, even if it's a sad song. And he wrote, unlike many drummers I know, he wrote really catchy melodies and pop songs. And he could sing them and play them.

And he decided he was going to be a full-time songwriter and go to Los Angeles. And he's had quite a bit of success there. And he and I were in touch over this Beatles song that came out. Because we're both Beatles fans. And it was just so nice to hear from him. And to talk to him and stuff. He's a great guy. I produced six national tours of the Bluebird North songwriter show,

and Andy was a guest on one of them, and we laughed a lot. It was really good. And that's rare for you to laugh. Then I laughed to prove you wrong, yeah. But that tour, it had Em Griner, it had Andy Kim. Okay, wait, slow down. Those are both FOTMs. Keep going.

Sherry Elric. You've got to have her on sometime. I've got. Had Andy Kim. Okay, wait. Those are both FOTMs. Keep going. Sherry Ulrich. You've got to have her on sometime. I've got to get Andy on. Did you ever come by to hang out in Toronto? You know, it's funny. Family here. Andy and I, Andy Stachanski, Andy and I are talking about, well, I'm going to San Francisco for a month in February.

I'm actually going to house sit for Paul Myers. This is wild. Yeah, yeah. And I'm going to write songs and I'm going to hang out and I'm probably going to house sit for Paul Myers. This is wild. Yeah, yeah. And I'm going to write songs and I'm going to hang out and I'm probably going to drive down to LA, not in Paul's car, Paul, just to be clear. What does he drive? He drives a Mini, but I will rent a car.

Of course he drives a Mini. It's a very cool one. But yeah, I'm probably going to go visit Andy. Wild that you're house sitting for an FOTM and that's going to be a great month for you, man. You're going to go visit Andy. While you're house-sitting for an FOTM, and that's going to be a great month for you, man. You're going to have a great time. I think so, yeah. Apparently the weather in San Francisco in February

is traditionally not great. But, you know, neither is it here in Toronto. Yeah, we can't throw stones at that one. Yeah. That's way low in the mix. Bring that up, Mike. Yeah. That's way low in the mix.

Bring that up, Mike. Not one of Blair's jams, FYI. No. But you did mention it. Yep. If I make it through It's all because of you Okay, at this point we've all heard this song many times, I think. Please tell me your thoughts about the new Beatles. I put quotation marks, but no one can hear that.

The new Beatles song, Now and Then. Well, okay, I'm not, I'm a huge Beatles fan. My first record when I was five years old was The Beatles. It was called Long Tall Sally. It was a Canadian pressing. And heavily influenced by The Beatles the rest of my life.

I love, love, love The Beatles. That's a disclaimer to say that I don't love this yet. I think I might grow to love it. But I got to say I was sort of underwhelmed. I'm not a fanboy. Like, I'm not one of those people who, like, if you have a hero, they can do no wrong. And I'm not one of those people who will, if somebody criticizes something,

who will then say, I would like to see you sell 100 million records. You know, like, that's completely illogical. It has nothing to do with anything. You like it or you don't. Now, that said, it's growing on me hugely, which is great. And that's actually how a song should go, I think. If you like it instantly,

in my experience, if I like something instantly, I often, it fades away. But this is actually growing and I'm hearing new things in it. Now, have you looked up the AI Beatles version of this as if it was recorded in 1964? No. It's well worth it.

Okay. Because it sounds like it's from Rubber Soul. Same melody. It's beautiful. It's great. Okay, so let's break this down for a minute, though. Okay, so we had this, I'm guessing it was like a late 70s recording from John Lennon. Yes.

Like a bad recording i guess because uh when they put out a free as a bird uh it wasn't good enough like they had they didn't have the technology the uh the ability to like extract john's vocals and clean it up to a point where it was worthy of a beatle song right okay so they have a john thing this that's the base of this thing or whatever paul and ringo are still with us so they could apply things in 2023 or whatnot. And they had, so tell me, George, they had a piece of like a guitar work from George from like the mid nineties maybe? Well, when they were doing those songs for the anthology in the mid nineties, they did

Free as a Bird and Real Love. And the third song was going to be Now and Then. And so George worked on that with the rest of was going to be now and then and so george worked on that with the rest of them with ringo and paul and uh then he was the one who apparently called the halt to the sessions he said okay the two is enough and um and it was because they say it's because the vocal was uh so right so terrible sounding really and it was because you kept anytime you turned the vocal up you'd get the piano as well and it wasn't a great sounding piano. So, yeah.

So you can just imagine Paul with his work ethic, which is maybe a nice way of putting it. You can imagine Paul going, come on, come on, Ringo. One more, Ringo. Well, let's put it out. And I can do a better Paul than that, but I'm not going to.

The best one I do is Kurt Swinghammer. But anyway. We'll get to him in a moment. Okay. After your next jam. Yeah. But yeah, so this song, it's funny how it hits me emotionally now. And part of the reason why is because of hearing that, the AI version, because it's AI, it

sounds like it's Paul and John and George singing on it, but it's faster, and the lyrics don't sound lame. The way they do it a little bit, they're a little simple. But if you think of it in the 1965 context, 64 context, they sound, you know, appropriate to that era. See, I don't have the same, you know, childhood memories of the Beatles, but I, so my initial, I was a little underwhelmed like the first time I heard this,

but then I listened again. I've talked about it with a couple of previous guests on Toronto Mike where I played it and talked about it. And I don't know when it clicked in, but at some point I realized, oh, I actually really like the song. Like at some point I'm like, it grew on me. Like it was a slow burn, like you described actually,

exactly like you described. Now what's interesting that I've subsequently learned is there's string parts in that that were added by, you know, non Beatles. And one of the women who you can hear doing the string part actually has passed away. So, uh, they were,

they were talking about how she never even knew, like she didn't, I think it was so top secret that they, they, they, they record string parts and they don't say, Hey, this is for a new Beatles song.

Like it wasn't so top secret like she passed away without ever knowing that she was actually going to be on the uh the last beatle song ever and her i think it was her mother or somebody in her family was just saying what a beautiful like how how excited that would have made her and what a beautiful gift that is for her that she had a role in the final beatle song yeah kidding. I didn't know that she'd passed away, but that's, yeah, very exciting. I did hear on Howard Stern, it was so good, he has imitators, you know,

impressionists come on the show, and they're usually really, really good, and one of them was, you know, allegedly Paul McCartney, and so Howard's asking him about this song, and oh, well, the technology is so great that we've decided to uh we've decided to uh to unearth other recordings that john made for instance there's one from his answering machine it's and we're calling it leave a message at the beep and and you yeah and the

sad thing is i can kind of imagine paul that, like writing a melody for it and so forth. I went through a period of my life where I loved Howard Stern. Like I've fallen off. I fell off actually when he went to Sirius XM, which was a long time ago now. But I used to listen like crazy. And I remember I think with the evil Dave Letterman. Like so they'd have like Dave Letterman and he would be an impersonator. And it was like i'm like this is so good and i think in some small like 0.001 percent like i figured i'm if i'm gonna have a show like any like i just it's gonna have that kind of spirit i suppose like of that great

the great howard stern i used to listen to in the uh the 90s i think he's really uh uh one of the best uh radio interviewers around. You're self-excluded. Oh, of course. He can't compete with me. Notwithstanding, yeah. It's funny how he doesn't always mention that you're a friend of the show to whoever he's talking to, you know. But you're good that way, keeping up with that.

Right. You helped me with that. That's right. We'll talk about that next. But I fell off listening to him on 9-11, 2001. Really? Yeah, I was listening, as I did every morning when I would go down to the kitchen, make a cup of tea, get my breakfast, and I'd had the radio on. And he and Robin were talking about a plane hitting the World Trade Center.

But they were sort of like, yeah, weird. That's so weird. Remember a plane? Apparently a plane hit in World War II and so forth. And then he said, oh, oh, we're getting word. No, this was a jetliner, not a small plane. And then I thought, I better turn on CNN. Turned on CNN.

Never turned on Howard Stern again. Really? Until about 2017. That's wild. Yeah. Why? Well, he went to Sirius, which of course sort of sealed it. Well, yeah, but that was years after 9-11.

Like 9-11, I was kind of obsessed with 9-11 at that time. So I was listening to CBC every day. Didn't listen to our show. Okay, no time for the silliness and the porn stars. No, I really thought the world was ending. I thought we were going to World War III. I mean, in a way. Did you have a bunker?

Like, was there a Blair bunker? No, but I did go get the oil changed in the car that day. My wife, Arlene, was two weeks away from giving birth to our son. So we were freaked. We're bringing our kid into the world just on the precipice of what I thought was World War III. So we thought we became preppers in a way. We went and got the oil changed in the car, seriously, that day. We're kind of amazed at how everybody else wasn't freaked out,

like at the oil change place, you know. Right, business as usual. It's like, do you know what's going on right now? And then we went and bought a lot of canned goods and some big jugs of water. That's bunker adjacent. Yeah, it is. Now, I always remind you when you talk about, you know,

you had a bun in the oven, so to speak. I also had a bun in the oven on 9-11. So our sons are very similar age, because that was my thought too, is like, what world is James entering? Like, what world have we brought James into? And I definitely remember that feeling on 9-11. Well, you know, when you think about it, that the fear of World War III or imminent disaster or whatever, has been borne out in a way. It's just taken 22 years to get there. Or not even to get there.

We're still on the precipice. But the world, I haven't, I don't remember how innocent I was until on September 10th. Right. Because honestly, for me, the world changed. My perception of the world changed after that. Well, we had a good run there. I feel like pre-9-11, Honestly, for me, the world changed. My perception of the world changed after that. Well, we had a good run there.

I feel like pre-9-11, and I'm a product of mainly the 80s and 90s, but it was a fairly, the world, there were parts of the world where there, of course, was conflict and war even, but generally speaking as a Toronto, Ontario, Canada native, that decade, those two decades, 80s and 90s that I was coming of age in, were pretty peaceful, really.

Like, 9-11 sort of was that jolt of like, oh, things are going to change. You know, I hate to paint myself as an ignoramus, but prior to 9-11... But you are 11. Yeah, well, I certainly was prior to 9-11. I didn't know anything about Islam. So when on television they started saying

it's radical Islam, Islamists. And so I was like, what are those? But we did have, because you only have a couple years on me, but I do remember distinctly reading in-depth conversations with Timothy McVeigh and stuff about the Oklahoma City bombing and about how that was essentially Christian fundamentalism. I absolutely remember that, oh, when you believe in religion too much, this is sometimes a frightening byproduct.

Yeah, fundamentalism, I think. Of any religion. Yeah, and maybe of anything. I'm not really sure. Maybe even in music, you know. Because I think that life is messy. Humans are messy. And maybe embracing that is the way to go.

All right, you ready for so that Beatles jam not yet in your jam kicking repertoire we'll see what the future holds yeah exactly it's growing on you give me another chance Mike

it's easier to try do that snare rattle yeah it's cause it's all live baby okay give us the deets Warren Heights near Montreal Do that snare rattle? Yeah. That's because it's all live, baby. Okay. Give us the deets. Warren Heights, near Montreal.

We're going there Friday morning. Oh, yeah. They never come through Honey, honey, honey I ain't that way You want a little baby Once in a while Come on, get up Shouldn't take it so hard Yeah Shouldn't take it

Shouldn't take it so hard Shouldn't take it so hard Yeah Man. All right, talk to me. Okay, well, Keith Richards. First solo record. The album, I like the album a lot, but this song kills me every time. And it's the groove. The groove is so heavy.

And every musician I've ever talked to has said, the groove on that thing. I can't remember. Can we swear on Tron? Yeah, you can swear. Oh, that groove on that fucking thing? This isn't CIUT, Blair. You can swear. Yeah, exactly.

Honestly, every musician I know, even classical musicians, will be like, holy moly, that's deep. And I can't, like a drummer could tell you what it is. But the riff, it's a song apparently to Mick Jagger, but it could be a relationship song. You shouldn't take it so hard, you know. Definitely the hit on the album, because I remember this distinctly too, but I actually struggle to remember a second Keith Richards solo song.

Well, that's the thing. It's like the rest of the record. I can think of a couple, but the rest of the record is okay. I mean, it's really good actually, but this to me is killer. There's a, on YouTube, you can find a performance on Saturday Night Live

and like you can tell a performance on Saturday night live. And like, you can tell Keith knows how heavy it is. I mean, at the end, he's just grinning like a madman, you know, like, uh,

and it's, it's so great. But here's, here's the story. A couple of things. Jeremy Darby, who is a recording studio and recording studio owner in Toronto and a dear friend of mine. He,

um, he was one of the assistants on this recording. You've got to get him on this show. Actually, after we wrap the Keith Richards chat, I'm going to talk about some people that you have connected me with who have made an appearance since your last visit to the studio. I have a little list here. Well, Jeremy Darby is an Englishman. He came over to North America first with Squeeze, the band Squeeze.

He was their monitor monitor man and then he worked with elvis costello in the same capacity um he worked with lou reed up until lou's death but he owned a studio in toronto in uh all this time and he's recorded some of the i'm sure some records that you know he's he's a great guy he was an assistant on this keith richards thing he said that they set up at moran heights near montreal they set up um a whole pa system a sound system in the studio because keith didn't want to use headphones so that's why you hear the snare rattling when the guitar is playing off the top keith's playing the rhythm guitar and the snare is rattling because the amp

is right there so the snare drum is like like that to me that's instantly sounds live it sounds like a live rock band they set this this pa up and they waited for keith for four days and all the musicians are getting paid the studio is getting paid and keith didn't show up so then they tear everything down again and then they went back and recorded it again but but here's a here's the thing uh the the drummer uh is steve jordan uh well actually i'm going to correct that in a second but stand by charlie drayton plays bass in the key in that keith richards band they were called the expensive winos and uh and steve jordan played drums but they weren't they were trying to cut this song trying to cut it and trying and it just wasn't happening so charlie drayton on bass switches with steve jordan on drums charlie drayton plays drums steve jordan plays bass now

which he doesn't normally play right and the song has unbelievable magic wow yeah and that doesn't happen very often you know and they just switched up and next thing you know it's like holy shit you know wow so anyway according to rolling stone. You know? Wow. So anyway. According to Rolling Stone magazine, that song we just heard is actually their second favorite song on Talk is Cheap. And they prefer, well, this gentleman, whoever, this person who wrote this article prefers Make No Mistake. Oh, yeah. From Talk is Cheap.

Yeah. No, that's it. I just wondered, like, maybe I'm overlooking some Q107 jam from that album that I just can't. because that was a period of time when I was listening to a lot of Q107. Have you ever heard a Q107, Blair? You're choking me up, Mike. No, I

inhaled too deeply, apparently, on this split. Is he serious? You're bringing up my past, what a dark past it was. No, yes, Q107. Haven't listened in a long time, actually, because... Well, it's not the old Q. Yeah, and I want to hear newer songs.

I don't want to just hear... Bon Jovi? Yeah. But yeah, I did my time at Q107. You served your time there. Yeah. And they were big Jitters fans at Q107. Yeah.

Oh, I had the most hilarious thing happen recently, but... Tell me. Well, it's really a long story. You can't just say that and then move on. Okay, well... I like hilarious things. Somebody online accused me of being part of a conspiracy with the Q107 homegrown contest in 1986

that I knew my band was going to share third place, which we did. We shared third place. We didn't win. But somehow I was part of the engineering of that, like making sure we didn't win. This i was part of the engineering of that like making sure we didn't win this is right up my alley yeah continue yeah so this this guy online is telling me this this was in the context of he had accused um online he had accused um cbc oh sorry he'd accused

trudeau it was trudeau's fault that buffy saint marie had been investigated wow that was his contention that's your first sign to ignore this person. Well, the thing is, I didn't, though. You know, I mean, I'm sure he's a nice fellow. I don't know that I've ever met him. That's one thing. A lot of people with the Buffy conspiracy theories, we can talk about that later.

But to be so specific, to talk about, because I'm mildly fixated on the 1993 New Music Search contest from CFNY, which was won by head. And I bring it up a lot, because Lowest of the Lowest were supposed to win, and they were told by i think bookie mentioned to them you're a shoe in they don't win it was a hundred thousand dollars whatever but the equivalent at the time with the rival q107 was this homegrown contest and you finished third for some reason i thought you did better than third but okay that's the whole thing who won that 1986 everest and everest

how are they now did they get on c get on neverest i don't know okay but this is a very specific uh conspiracy theory uh like super hype no wonder you paid attention yeah well it was it was the thing the thing that he said that you know uh the buffy samery thing had to have been run past the pmo and and i'm like that's hilarious like this this guy you're blaming trudeau for everything i made some joke joke about, hey, the weather's turning cold, the leaves are falling. Thanks a lot, Trudeau. And he didn't like that.

And he said, well, how do you feel about a certain radio contest that your band was in? And it went from there. And we had this long discussion, both in public and then private. It's wild. Messaging. And I'm like, what exactly are you contending here? And he didn't really let it go

like even though i said i'm telling you i didn't know anything of what you're talking about i don't think they're even but you know if you're gonna fix it the jitters which had a that was a legitimately good song i'm singing it today in 2023 like that was a great song thank you okay well he said so too by the way he was so it's a great song which by the way if anything you got robbed everest might have had the fix in there if if you want to ask me. So like Last of the Red Hot Fools, different version than the one we might know, but finishing third,

to me, if you're going to fix it, why are you fixing it to finish third? It seemed very Machiavellian of me, if I was involved. What was the prize for third? I don't know, I got a Porter Studio or something. Free CDs? I don't know. Yeah, exactly. But his contention, this guy, his contention was that my eventual record label,

our eventual record label, which was Capital EMI, they arranged this so that they could look like geniuses for plucking us from obscurity and so forth. And it's like, no. First of all, the label that was involved with the contest was CBS, later Sony.

But CBS records, right? You do realize you're, you're reasoning with a person who is unwell, like mentally unwell. Like, you know, the,

the moment they say that the PMO office is going to approve stories that are aired on the fifth estate, like that's the moment you realize, Oh, this person's a conspiracy theorist who is unwell. Well, I see, I don't want to make judgments like that.

And we did eventually come oh you can do it that's fine but that's your opinion but could you imagine like can you make so when harper was the prime minister all stories on the fifth estate were run through harper's office like this whole idea that the uh the sitting prime minister has any say in what the cbc news is doing is hilarious yeah i i feel that I felt that as well and said so. But, you know, this guy felt really strongly about that. And I feel like, well, you know, he has his opinions. He didn't, you know, veer off into, you know, other weird shit

except the jitters thing, which is weird enough. And he said, I'd certainly like to see a CBC report about that. And I said, boy, so would I. That would like revive my career. Does that serve the public interest? Yeah, you should go home and pray to your God. There's a scandal involving the jitters. Let's talk about what happened when you thought the jitters finished third

and you thought that was on the up and up. In 1986. 1986, homegrown. And again, I just had to kick out the jams. Yes, no, two days ago with a woman and we talked about some obscure artists. And then I pointed out, if you grab 20 random people on the CBC, not CBC, why am I doing that?

If you grab 20 random people on the TTC and you just name, do you know this artist? I said, you're going to get one or none that know this artist. Like we were just, I'm just how I think. Like give me random 20 people on the TTC. If you right now go get 20 random people in the TTC and say, are you aware of Q107 had a homegrown contest and you just describe this thing. You'll be lucky if you get one.

Oh, yeah. I would say lucky. And honestly, and I'm okay with this. You'd be lucky if one out of 100 knows Last of the Red Hot Fools, like the jitter song, you know. I guess it depends on the age. Well, exactly. Yeah, that's true. Because I will argue that uh but i'm a gen x guy i uh don't know it would be tough to miss it you'd have to like i hate anything to do with a guitar in it and i'm

just gonna ignore like it would be difficult to miss it if you were of a certain vintage yeah and actually i was flattering myself when i said one of a hundred i think it's more like one of a thousand oh come on but but Not in this city, Blair. But anyway, I want to say about that guy, we ended up resolving it. And I thought he actually mistook him for somebody else. The reason I engaged with him was because I thought he was somebody else. And I was like, oh, God, this guy again going on about Trudeau being responsible for everything. But it was a different guy.

Did you ask him what the PMO offices MO was like, why they wanted to take down Buffy St. Marie? He had some theories. I did ask him and he had some theories and it was to do with the prime minister's ongoing quarrels with native people. So he wanted to basically hurt, he wanted to hurt indigenous people in this.

Yes. Indigenous people. Okay. Cause I would do it., because that would do it. Yeah. That would do it. Well, it certainly divided Indigenous people from what I've observed.

You know, we should probably talk about that because I spoke with Buffy. Okay, let's do that. Yeah, three days before. I know you did because I was very excited for you because three days before, I had just caught wind. Like I just caught, somebody tweeted, an Indigenous person tweeted

that there's something coming out basically on the fifth estate and it was going to blow. Up would be down, black would be white. Like the world was going to go topsy-turvy. So in the FOTM group, we were talking

and I actually said, half joking, I said, we're going to find out Buffy's Italian. Like this is what's going to happen here. Yeah, I know. You said that. Yeah, I said that.

Wow. Because I knew the St. Marie came from santa maria so i knew the family that raised her in usa was of italian descent right this i'm like it's got it and i was like i was only half joking or whatever but i was i will watch the fifth estate and then make my own assessment this kind of parallels with the beatles song in the sense that uh underwhelmed at first by the beatles and then the more I whatever so with the Buffy news like I I much like yourself and I want to hear about your chat with Buffy although we should point out the chats pre Fifth Estate release because I don't think Buffy

would do that chat after October 27th 2023 like you got in there three days before but she wouldn't do it today she did it October 23rd and we had arranged it a couple of months before and it was for my songwriting workshop, which is called Song Studio. If you know any songwriters who want to hear from the best, she was our keynote speaker this year, but we've had Steve Earle, Lyle Lovett, Rick Emmett, Larry Gowan, Bruce Coburn. We've had a bunch of Ed Robertson. We've had a bunch of great keynote speakers over the years so buffy was booked for this and uh i was kind of surprised because it's a songwriting workshop i was surprised that her management wanted to vet the questions beforehand because they're just going to be about songwriting. Right. But I thought, well, I want her.

I want to have her on. I admire her deeply, and I wanted to have her on. So I sent the questions, and they approved them. They actually changed. The only thing they changed were my biographical notes in the introduction because they were biographical notes, and they were too specific, and I'd gotten them off the internet and they wanted to correct that, the record.

And it was a pretty subtle change. And I thought, really, you're changing just that, you know, but that's what they did. And then we, we spoke,

she was fantastic. She was such a great guest. Of course. So gracious, so warm and all about creativity in a world where so many people are about destruction. You know, I mean, it was very moving. I found it very moving. She talked about, you know, how to tap into your creativity and what she does in her history and pivotal moments in her life and so forth without talking about her, you know, birth story. And we had a great time. We talked for an hour and a bit,

and she took questions from our group and so forth. And then the next day, I think I read you saying something. I texted you. Yeah. Because I was very interested in your chat with Buffy because I will disclose, it's no secret, for years I tried to get Buffy on Toronto Mike. Yes.

For years. Yes, yeah. Because, and no secret to listeners or anyone who reads torontomike.com, but I adored that woman. Like I, much like yourself, big fan, huge. I grew up with Sesame Street when she was on. Like from the first conscious moments I remember,

I remember Buffy St. Marie. So I love this woman out of the gate. That's how you get somebody in the, you gotta throw them on Sesame Street when I was growing up in the late 70s. Okay, so I love this woman so when i heard you know the fifth estate had something about buffy initially my back got up like uh leave her alone yeah me too leave her alone like this is don't fuck with buffy saint marie like this is an icon in this

it's like going after gordowny or something it's like leave her alone so that was the initial then i read the piece and i'm like oh uh i had to i started to process it and i was actually so and then i want to hear what you think because here's what i think but i initially then i started i sensed myself getting angry at buffy saint marie like i mean i need to watch this thing so i go on a bike ride i got work to do but then i can settle down i had the youtube link and i'm gonna watch the fifth estate i watched it twice bang bang and then the next day watched it again with my wife. And now I'm curious for your thoughts, because my thoughts are that Buffy St. Marie duped us for decades. Like this is one of the great hoaxes in the history of the world. She's not Canadian. She's not indigenous. And I'm actually

legitimately hurt. I wish Buffy would talk to us. She hasn't made a public statement since this, because she made her statement like the day before. She put out a video like the day before this dropped. I wish she would talk to us now. I feel like this is like that movie about the queen where Lady Diana's dead. We need to hear from you, queen. I need to hear from Buffy.

I just need her to talk, to come clean basically and talk. And by the way, this was October 27th that this Fifth Estate dropped. We're now talking on November 15th. That's almost a month ago. If the Fifth Estate put out blatant lies

about your indigenous ancestry and that these were untrue, I would think the next day you'd be working on your retort video because we all want to believe Buffy. But the longer this goes with her radio silence, like she's I know who I am I know who loves me peace out I'm like I'm a hundred percent convinced that Buffy is a white American and I'm angry about the fact she deceived us for so many decades like I'm pissed off I can't even listen to a Buffy song anymore I want to hear what you think, Blair Packham. Well, I'm hesitant.

I will share what I think, because I'm compulsive, I think. You have to. I'm going to rough you up. Yeah, yeah. But I do think it's not my place. I'm a human being, but I'm not an indigenous person, and it doesn't affect me directly except emotionally.

So it hasn't kept me from any opportunities. I've certainly enjoyed Buffy St marie so much um over the decades but i i do feel like i don't have a uh cultural or you know heritage well you're not indigenous yeah and i so i feel like you know but but i do think this i think i think humans are messy i said it before humans are messy you I said it before. Humans are messy. You know, like that guy I spoke with who had that conspiracy theory. Humans are messy.

And I'm glad that he and I resolved it to a point where we were very, not more than civil, I thought. And I think that's good. But humans are messy. She was young. It's going to sound like I'm making excuses for her, but I'm not.

She was young in that she was in her twenties. Well, she was even younger. In fact, when it, when the story sort of started and, you know, you get told things by your parents. My mom used to make up shit. I love my mom. I love her still. But she said that I was descended from the pirate Calico Jack Rackham.

And my father was like, okay, but Blair, let's say you put that in your bio because you believed it to be true because your mom told it. At some point when you, you know, you learned this wasn't true, you would either correct the public record

or you would stop presenting yourself as this. Well, and you wouldn't double down or triple down or whatever. No, I agree. I agree. But Bob Dylan never corrected it.

The fact that, or not the fact, the idea that he rode. But Bob Dylan never corrected it. The fact that, or not the fact, the idea that he rode the rails, you know, in the Dust Bowl. I feel like he did. I mean, we don't tell that story anymore. Like, we know he's from Minnesota. We know the Bob,

Robert Zimmerman story. Well, and he didn't, and he didn't, in his book, he didn't go on about it. So, yeah, that's a good point, you know. But, I don't know.

I just. And he didn't go like taking awards for rail riders like this is this is the annual award for the greatest rail rider and then he's accepting then there's some guy on the rails like i got i missed out again because dylan keeps taking these awards for the rail riders right and i and i get your point i know you're being humorous but i get your point but and i'm not making excuses for buffy because i think it's terrible and i think it's awful i also think there's a possibility that everybody's wrong that that you know that everybody's wrong and everybody's right uh you know and and and i'm withholding final judgment and i don't suppose i'm ever going to get to final judgment because

i'm not a an indigenous person i have to to say the CBC documentary is very compelling. You know, it's very persuasive and it's very disappointing and hurtful. That said, I still love and admire Buffy Samir. You can love and admire somebody and they can be very, very flawed. You know, and if that's what's going on here and it looks like it probably is,

I guess that's just what I have to accept. But it's a hard pill to swallow. guitar solo We'll take the copper from the worksite Meet me here at midnight They ain't got a camera or a guard Write my own prescription If I can't get a fix Son, shit's about to get real hard

Molly don't believe me Says she's gonna leave me The kids won't even know my name put a gallon in the step side with a

little help by morning I won't feel no pain Never thought I'd wind up this far behind Just a couple years back we had it made I was empty in my bladder on a twenty foot ladder Should have climbed down and found myself some shade.

Doctor took a quick look and I got out the checkbook and left with a pocket full of pills. Now my back's still hurting and I'm too weak for working and I can't keep up with all the bills. Can't keep up with all the bills She used to wake me up with coffee every morning And I'd hear her homemade house shoes slide across the floor She used to make me feel like the king of all Mahoma But nothing makes me feel like much of nothing anymore

Man, do I love that song. That's Jason Isbell. Man, do I love that song. That's Jason Isbell. And it paints a picture to me of the microcosm of America, of North America. He's a working guy with a family and he has an accident. I was emptying my bladder on a 20-foot ladder and should have gone to find some shade, he said. But he goes to the doctor. The doctor gives him a pocket full of pills. Now I'm out of work.

My back still hurts, and I can't work. And his wife's going to leave him, and the kids won't even know his name, and his life is falling apart. What a picture this guy paints. I went to see Jason Isbell at Massey Hall this summer, and it was life changing in that I suddenly started writing songs again and I started working on my record again that

I'd sort of abandoned. And like so inspiring. So and he's such a great guitar player. Oh my God. And it's just song after song. And the audience was so great. There wasn't any of that shit. The people yelling, we love you, Jason. It's like, I don't care, guy in third row in section 207. I don't care if you love him. Shut up. You know, I'm trying to listen to the song.

And instead, the audience is, they're singing along, but quietly to almost every song. Like they know the word. This is an audience of 3,000 people who knew the words and loved the words. Was Dave Hodge there? Probably.

Is Dave Hodge a big fan? I think Dave Hodge would be there. And I just will tell everybody, he's back to kick out his top 100 songs of 2023. Either next week or the next week after. I've lost track because I'm off to Montreal here. But it sounds like that was a great show. And this guy is a great songwriter. Yeah.

Yeah, I saw a bunch of shows at Massey Hall this year. I don't normally go to shows because they're so expensive. What else have you seen there? Saw Bob Dylan just a few weeks ago. Yeah, that was something else. I've never seen Bob before. I'm a big fan, too. How can you afford these expensive tickets?

Well, I didn't. A new friend took me. I say a new friend because my old friends wouldn't take me, but my new friends would. Old friends know better. That's a good friend taking you to Bob Dylan. Yeah, well, I don't know him very well, but yeah, he said,

I thought, who do I know who would like to go see Bob Dylan? That's amazing. Yeah. Not even Sylvia Tyson was at that show. I was chatting with her, and she didn't even go to that show. Yeah. Good for you.

And he was on, on the ball, Mr. Dylan. He's got to be 82 or 83 years old now. He was on the ball, but it was weird. Like,

you know, he's been singing the same way for, you know, for 30 years now. Right. And, and it's back phrasing. So if the tempo is like,

he's like, you never know who said, like, what are you talking about? You know, know just like it's like talking sort of in a confidential kind of way but then like he did um oh what's it what's that song called uh um anyway he did one of this one song and he and every like there's uh Dylan fans are going to kill me because I just can't remember the title. Lorne Honigman is uh yelling at his yeah sorry Lorne right now and of course and it's one of his well-known songs,

but, pass the bottle, over here, I'll be your baby tonight. But every time he got to the, pass the bottle line, he would, he'd go,

turn the window, and he'd talk like that, you couldn't really make out the words, and then he'd go, pass the bottle, over here, like that, and then he'd go back to,

and it was, it was odd, but it was great. I'm such an admirer. And the band, they were great. And you never know when it's going to be Bob Dylan's last visit to Toronto. Like that could have been it. You never know. Never know.

Good for you for going to that. Good for your new friend there. No kidding. What a great thing. Let me know if he wants more friends. I will. He seems to be a great guy. We had dinner before and it was really nice.

It's working out for you. Yeah. What do you think is better? Your Bob Dylan impression or your Mark Weisblatt impression? Oh, Mark Weisblatt, way better. Everybody does Dylan. Hardly anybody does Mark Weisblatt and I do Mark Weisblatt better. He had a question for you.

Oh, nice. He recorded a, it's called Radio Recall and it's for CIUT. Yeah. So I guess he talks to a couple of hosts about what he remembers about CIut uh he said they did shelf it for two months but then it went online and i actually listened and i got a shout out so thank you mark for that oh nice he has suggested that uh you get a similar turn as the teen dj of a decade earlier and he wondered have you been in uh have you been contacted by anybody at ciut for radio recall no but i think the the people involved um there are a few people that i remember from

those days steve fruitman yeah steve fruitman uh joel eves um who else there are a couple people from way back when uh no i haven't been contacted but i'd love that um i mean you know as i've told in that story the the the uh the new guy in town when i was the you know 14 year old dj was 13 year old kevin nelson right now and uh but unfortunately kevin's passed so well him and his father uh met uh premature demise sadly sadly yeah shout out to ridley funeral home pillars of the community since 1921. Shout out to Sharon Taylor as well. My dear friend Sharon Taylor who now lives in Winnipeg.

But she and Kevin were best friends and they loved each other and I know his death hit her hard. I'm sorry to hear that, yeah. She's your driver of course. Now you got her mad at me again. I follow her on Facebook so I'm aware of the Winnipeg move.

Uh, her, she has a child in Winnipeg, right? Yeah. And, uh, cause that'll get you to move.

Yeah. And I think it's, I think, and her child who's, I think 30 now or 28, something like that is, uh, I believe living with her now.

Okay. And I, I saw on Facebook, she's single. Uh, apparently she's single. Yeah. Yeah.

So there. And, uh, again, if people don't know, they should listen to her episode of Toronto Mic'd. She was the program director at 680 CFTR, where they played Closer, Every Day, and other great jams. And she worked as PD and MD at various stations across the country for years. Oh, and Kiss, right? Yeah. This is not the kiss of a K. This is of a C. Yeah. When they did, right? Yeah. This is not the Kiss of a K, this is of a C. Yeah, when they did country music

and she brought in all kinds of famous country artists to do live shows at the Kiss studios. And yeah, she did a great job. She came to a TMLX event and Larry Fedorek was there who was working at Kiss and they reunited. They really did.

I was there too. Yeah, it was great. Okay, are you going to come to TMLX 14? Only if Danny Graves isn't there because that one that I went to. I don't think he'll be there.

I went and I thought I was the, well, I didn't think. You thought you were the headliner? I never said you were the headliner. No, that's true. But then later when you refer back to that TMLX,

and it was so great. Danny Graves was there. Anyway, what are you doing next week? Or whatever. And I'd be like, hey, hello. How do you think Rob Pruse feels?

He had to open up for you. Poor old Rob Pruse. Yeah, you're right. Think about that. The guy from Spoons had to open up for the guy from Jitters

so the guy from The Watchmen could get all the accolades. Could get all the accolades. But you were amazing. You're always amazing. I saw, I was at an event. David Kynes invited me to this breakfast. It was a Hollywood're always amazing. I saw, I was at an event. David Kines invited me

to this breakfast. It was a Hollywood sweet breakfast and I saw David Quinton Steinberg there and he smiled and we chatted and I'm like,

I only know this guy because of Blair Packham. Right. He's, David Quinton Steinberg is a beautiful guy who I haven't seen now in a couple of months.

I met him, I was in your backyard and I was hanging with him. Yeah. Was that the last time you saw him? No, no. Maybe it's not a couple of months but I haven't seen him in a while.

Anyway, I haven't talked to him in a long time. He's busy. There might be a rush. I mean, obviously they're going to need a new drummer, but there might be a rush reunion because Geddy's hinting at it. Oh, I didn't know that. I do know this. Geddy has a book and a book

tour and David's busy with that. So maybe when you do your book tour, you go on all the shows. Maybe's hinting at it. Geddy has a book and a book tour, and David's busy with that. So maybe when you do your book tour, you go on all the shows. Maybe David will talk to me. Although I haven't got the call yet. Tell David Geddy should come on Toronto Mike to promote the book. Well, I will tell him that, but he's very protective. You know, that's his job. But there's a book tour, right?

Yep. He's talking to people. Why not me? What am I going to do? I'm not going to. Exactly. Now you know how I feel compared to danny graves you know by the way the buffy interview that you recorded yeah that was you know so great three days before the bomb dropped

was that like already uh devoured so that was live right like that was it was live it was recorded so i'm wondering like if you were recording it and then the news dropped three days later does that kind of burn the keynote like I would think today it would be different if your keynote was a recorded conversation with Buffy St. Marie. Yeah, I don't know. We're not ashamed of it. We feel like we talked about songwriting

and she has, you know, I don't think her songwriting ability or credits were in any way misrepresented. Okay, let me ask you a real question as a songwriter. Yeah. Her catalog of music, and again, she's won an Oscar and Universal Soldier written at the Purple Onion in Yorkville because we talked to the co-owner

who talked about that story. Right. So all of that, if she's an Italian-American, an American of Italian descent, and she never claims indigenous ancestry and never claims to be part of that 60s scoop, et cetera, if she never makes those claims, is she as well-known and respected

for her songwriting today if she doesn't invent that history? She should be. I think that's separate. But you can't separate it. Well, Universal Soldier isn't about being indigenous. that's separate. But you can't separate it. Like you might, well, you can't actually. Universal Soldier isn't about being indigenous.

It's from her perspective. And if her perspective was misrepresented, I don't, I still don't, I don't think that changes her perspective. And I think,

and Love Lifts Us Up Where We Belong, you know, that's, that's, it's an, that's an incredible pop song you know no doubt um and and so many others uh you know i i you know if i were an indigenous person i i would question perhaps

uh the motive motives behind power in the blood and the other records she's made that stress indigeneity you know i understand you know why that would be i really do understand why that would be a problem and why it would be hurtful um i feel like it's not for me to make a final pronouncement though so there's a recent guest uh we spoke about that album with and right after this jam by blair packham's fifth jam we're going to talk about that gentleman who uh wrote over here because you introduced me to him. And then a few others who have dropped by because they are friends of Blair. And I think you sort of vouched for me in some respect.

So I'm going to run down a short list of these people who came on Toronto Mic'd because they're friends of Blair. But first, this. I'll never forget the first day I met her That September morning was clear and fresh. The way she spoke and laughed at my jokes and the way she rubbed herself against the edge of my desk. Sit together in Double East Street twice a week And some days we walk the same way home And it's surprising how quick a little rain can clear the streets We dreamed of her and compared our dreams But that was all that I ever tasted She lied to me with the body you see, and I do myself out the chances I wasted. Close her eyes as I did When we held each other tight And la la la la la la la la Means I love you

This is Back to Back Jam Kickings with Billy Bragg. Tell me about this song, why you love it. Well, take that Dave Hodge. No, I don't know dave hodge may be a huge fan of billy bragg um for sure it's uh it's just such a beautiful song about unrequited childhood love and um you know as a as a person who had many crushes on girls in grade school and

middle school and high school i related big time when I first heard this song. I was like, oh my God. And it never, like, because it's Billy Bragg in the era when he only accompanied himself with guitar. There's no drums, there's no bass, only the trumpet that comes in occasionally. And harmony here and there. And I just love it. And I love his accent.

No, absolutely. I'll say he's England's Ron Hawkins from lowest to the low, not Robin. That's right, yes. I have a connection to Ronnie Hawkins too, though, by the way.

Okay, give me it. Well, he did a remake of Mary Lou. Mary Lou. Of course, yes, by Ron, yeah, his big hit, I guess. Yeah, and it was

in the 80s, maybe 1989, 1990. But that's his song, right? Like he's remaking his own song. Yeah, but it was for Prom Night 2, I guess. Yeah. And it was from, and it was in the 80s, maybe 1989, 1990. But that's his song, right? Like he's remaking his own song. Yeah. But it was for Prom Night 2, I think, the movie. And I sang all the background vocals on it.

You know, every time somebody brings up If I Had a Million Dollars, I am like obligated to tell them that Blair Packham is in that chorus. Tell them I got a royalty check the other day for 42 bucks for If I Had a Million Dollars. So I'm getting closer to a million dollars. Is Kurt Swham is in that chorus. Tell them I got a royalty check the other day for 42 bucks. Or if I had a million dollars. So I'm getting closer to a million dollars.

Is Kurt Swinghammer in the chorus? I think he probably is. He was part of our group at the time and still is. I mean, we're still dear friends. So, yeah, probably. I'm trying to remember, have you been on Toronto Mic'd since Kurt Swinghammer was on Toronto Mic'd? No, I don't think so. Okay, what did you think of the Kurt Swinghammer episode?

I thought it was great. He's very articulate and passionate about art. And he, I don't know, he, I'm a great admirer of his. So yeah, I thought it was great. Your conversations with my friends, you know, they're different because if it's with somebody I don't know, it has a different effect on me. Of course me because they'll be telling a story that I was there for, or they'll be telling a story that I, um, that I know about. And, uh, so it hits me

differently. You know, Michael Phillip, uh, Voivoda, his, uh, I was going to ask about him next. Yeah. He, um, uh, I actually didn't realize, you know, you become friends with people and you don't, you're not looking at their Wikipedia page when you're friends, you know, so you don't always know all their credits. So as he talked about, and you would bring up stuff because that's your job, interviewing him. And I think, holy shit, he did that? Right.

You know, and this is a guy I've known for 30 something years, 40 years, you know, and I'm, and I love him and we hang out. I'm not as often as I would like, but you know, we, when, and, and I love him and we hang out. I'm not as often as I would like, but, uh, you know, we, when we see each other, he lives in my hood. Yes. He lives out here. That's right. Yeah. But he's a, he's a, such a great guy and so talented. But when, then when faced with his list of credits, I was like, Oh my God, I forgot he did that. You know, like these were some great guests who have been on the last few months that really did you, you basically introduced me to these guys. So we mentioned Kurt Swinghammer. So that's a great friend of Blair who came over and he was wondering, he biked over with a bicycle, I should point out, because Michael Philip Voya Vota came over on a motorcycle. And that was cool, too. And I loved my chat. He was just amazing. And we, I don't know, he gave me 90 minutes and we covered so much ground and i don't think you'll find a you know a more definitive uh michael philip voyevoda uh episode conversation

so thank you for that a few more i'll burn through robert priest yeah the poet yeah i admire him deeply as well he played live down here he was amazing too yeah a beautiful singer poet and singer songwriter and uh does both really well The Jitters played on his first recording. We were his backup band. And I have probably more books by Robert Priest than any other writer in my collection. Wow. Okay.

Well, let's talk about another great musician. I want to hear what you thought. I'm dying to know what you thought about the Bob Wiseman episode of Toronto Mike because you introduced me to Bob. Right. Bob and I aren't close. I like him.

I admire him. I don't know what Bob thinks about me. Bob's enigmatic. I used to think that Bob would think that I was uncool. Now I think he doesn't care about cool. But before I used to think he would be dismissive of me. And being a people pleaser, I think that probably was in the back of my mind.

I'd want him to like me. But I don't care as much because I feel like he doesn't care as much. And I admire him even more now. Your conversation with him was great. He can be, I don't know, how would you describe it, Bob? It was tricky. And I found it to be tricky. It's not, you know, like Kurt Swinghammer

and Michael Philip Boya Voda were much easier conversations. And he did, he kept checking, there was an appointment that he had to get to, and it seemed to sort of at some times he was very conscious of the fact that we had a hard stop, and that hard stop was like 60,

and I think 60 minutes for Bob Wiseman as I research other Bob Wiseman conversations might be a record like i'm not even sure there is a 60 minute bob wiseman out there but uh he would yeah so we had a hard stop which i don't love but i respect and uh also i could tell he really really enjoyed listening to the music he worked on in supports like so when i would play a song that he helped birth in some regard, he really enjoyed listening to it to a point where I got a message very early, like, don't fade down too quickly.

He's having a moment with this song. So one criticism I got is, oh, you get an hour with Bob and you played like 20 minutes of music. Well, you have to be in the room with these artists and sometimes you need to roll with what's happening live. I wouldn't profess to know whether Bob likes talking about himself or not, but I suspect not.

I suspect not as well. Yeah, and I think that's fine. Bob's totally refreshing, actually, in a world where people, including me, love to talk about themselves. Bob doesn't really. So how did I get him in the basement? As I look back at the Bob Wiseman conversation,

how did I get that man in my basement for 60 minutes to talk about whatever I wanted? I don't know. I don't want to take credit for it. Well, you deserve partial credit. Well, maybe partial credit. I feel like Bob and I have been a little more in each other's orbit

in the last couple of years, I guess. He came to my house to produce some vocals with Robert Priest. And so the connector there is Robert. But I've known Bob since when he was in Blue Rodeo. Of course. But we never, I don't know, we never connected as friends. I can see that. Yeah.

We are very different people. Yeah, very different people. But again, I admire him and I admire the stuff he's done. He produced Ron Sexsmith's first recording and did a great job and made a really cool thing, you know. And his solo stuff, he's written some songs I deeply admire. And I've done shows with him as well where he's, songwriter shows, you know. Right. And just sat there kind of amazed at the risks he would take as a performer.

And when I say kind of amazed, I actually mean amazed. It's a Paul McCartney song. Maybe I'm amazed. I was amazed. But watching Bob, or listening to Bob, I thought, well, this could be difficult with you. I did pitch you to him

because I thought, well thought there's an interesting there will be an interesting experience. It was really curiosity. I wanted to hear what that would sound like. Okay, there's another artsy... I know exactly where you're going. But first, just on the Bob front,

one thing I noticed is once I said the words Blue Rodeo, I noticed it was a bit of a third rail even though I couldn't talk to Bob Wiseman without talking a little bit about Blue Rodeo. Like, I'm going to have to go there. He didn't say don't go there. I just sensed he doesn't care for anything Blue Rodeo. Well, I believe I warned you by text. Right.

And you bristled a little bit. I bristled a little, only because telling me ahead of time, Bob doesn't like talking about Blue Rodeo, kind of messes me up because I have to talk about Blue Rodeo or I'm actually... It's like when Erica M,

initially her first time I was going to have Erica M on and she said she didn't want to talk about much music and then I politely said, maybe we don't do it right now. But Bob Wiseman, I honestly think most people listening to Toronto Mike know Bob Wiseman

because he was a member of Blue Rodeo. This is what I think. Well, that may be true. I can't speak for most people but you know he did have what I consider still does but he had a prodigious solo career in the 90s and toured the country a bunch of times and had some pretty cool bands. But the best known to the mainstream you know to my you know and those randos on the subway

yeah they would know a blue rodeo right they wouldn't know necessarily the history of keyboard players in blue rodeo but if you said he was like a founding member of that band and and uh so forth you know they'd be like oh cool blue rodeo Blue Rodeo. Yeah, sure. And again, if it's not clear, because here I am talking about how it wasn't easy, I actually madly loved my chat with Bob Wiseman. I actually enjoyed the fact

that he wasn't a paint-by-numbers easy chat or whatever. I had to work for it. And it was kind of exciting to me that, oh, I'm going to have to do some work and I'm going to have to adapt in real time to an unconventional guest. And that, I think, and I can't have to like adapt in real time to an unconventional guest and that I think

and I can't remember which came first but if that came first it absolutely I think it came first that absolutely prepared me for a chat with Jane Sibury so Jane Sibury was again you I think you either sent her an email or gave me her email or something And I just shared the video of the Jane Sibury chat like this week. So no one had ever seen the video. But when I drop a fun fact on her and she says she doesn't find that to be a fun fact, you can see it now, like her facial expression, everything. What did you think of Jane Sibury on Toronto Mike?

Well, I love Jane. I love Jane. But she is like no one else. And in a way, and I think, I don't want to put words in her mouth, but in a way I think she'd agree that it's not our job to be anyone else. It's our job to be ourselves.

And she does that. And I admire her. In addition to loving her, I admire her. She was very generous with me with my songwriting workshop, where she was a mentor to songwriters, and I thought, holy moly, some of these young songwriters, they don't know how great she is as a writer and as an artist and as a creative person.

One of the things that I love so much about having someone like that mentor at the workshop is it's not just about, well, you need to put a verse here and you need to make the verse eight lines and it needs to rhyme like the A, B, A, B, and so forth. It doesn't get into the nitty gritty of the technical stuff, maybe. It gets into why are you writing this song and how do you express yourself more deeply and how do you connect to the message and who are you writing to? That kind of thing. And Jane addresses stuff like that in her process, as well as what do I want to say as an individual?

And she does it beautifully and kindly and warmly. And when she does something like, well, I don't think that's a fun fact, it's not to be mean at all. It's just expressing her feeling that maybe there are more fun things to talk about. It's refreshing that she because most people would just be nice in the interview

and let it go or whatever but the fact that she wanted to converse about like and the fact that I couldn't let it go actually so we had a great chat about why she doesn't find that particularly interesting I loved it yeah so I enjoyed Jane Sibury like I enjoyed Bob Wiseman and even though listeners might find them

a little maybe not standoffish, but, you know, I would say that from my perspective, those are wonderful conversations. And thank you for helping to make them happen. Well, I'm pleased that they worked out. I thought they were both very enjoyable. All the ones you've mentioned. Anytime I have a friend on, I think, oh, I want to hear that. But also, I listen anyway. I'm a friend on, I think, oh, I want to hear that. But also, I listen anyway. I'm a regular listener. But I think people are, you know, when I say people, I mean in general, listeners, all of us are so used to interviews with people who want to tell their story, want to talk about themselves, and are quite practiced at it.

Yes, the talking points. Well, it's funny you should mention that, Mike. You know, and it's, you know, Mike. And sometimes it feels a little greasy. And so it's nice to have somebody go... Like a sales pitch? Yeah. And I know I can come off that way. I bet I wonder if maybe Bob thinks of me that way sometimes.

But it's just me. I mean, I have nothing to promote. I'm not here. I'm just talking about you and me and my friends, you know, but, but that said, I do have an easygoing way about me that I bet some people would be put off by and who would love the kind of, um, somewhat, uh, standoffish if, and I don't even think that's it, but you know, the, the, the, um, the truth telling aspect of, of, uh, of a Bob Wiseman or a Jane Sibri. All right.

I'm going to press play on jam number six. But first, I need to know what you think. Do you think, Blair Packham, I need your honest answer on this, as always, but is it a fun fact that the director of the Mimi on the Beach video would go on many years later to father the most decorated Canadian Olympian of all time. Is that a fun fact, Blair? I think that's a fun fact.

Sorry, Jane. It's a very fun fact, Blair. Come on. I'm still the apple of my mama's eye I'm my daddy's worst fears realized Here laid all this real estate Don't seem all that real to me sometimes I'm back out on that road again. Turn it.

These. Breaking band. Did you know he was in the wire? I'm in a cab Yeah, man. Did you know he was in The Wire? Oh, yeah. Tell me to check the liner notes. That's what I want you to do.

Okay, talk to me. Well, Steve Earle. I admire Steve Earle greatly. I've seen him play a few times. A song like this appeals to me because I love the melody. I love the words. Specifically,

I'm back out on this road again. Turn this beast into the wind. There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. And I find that... I'm 64, Mike. That's another Beatles song. Yeah, exactly. I've hardly even thought about that song this year when I'm 64. And when I turn 65, I'll think, oh shit,

I should have played a show or something. I don't know. But you get older and you look back on your life. I'm sure you have this experience yourself even at your tender age. But you look back and you try and make sense of it all and the people you love and the people you maybe don't love as much as you used to and the people who hurt you and the people who are there for you. Like I say, humans are messy. Sometimes those people are the same people, by the way.

And I take strength from a song like this. There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. Like, I'm not sure that I believe that I'm the other kind. Like, I break and bend. I've had some awful things happen to me, like most of us have, you know? And sometimes it just seems impossible to go on. And honestly, a song like this,

I know there are people listening going, this song? Really? Why not Copperhead Road? That's what they're saying. Well, because Copperhead Road's about a specific story. And this is about strength, finding inner strength in the face of adversity. And to me, I need that sometimes.

And I admire Steve Earle. You know, at one point I was looking at my CD collection, I had more Steve Earle records than anybody else. I didn't even know that I admired him so much. But I had more than Elvis Costello, who would be my next favorite, and more than the Beatles, who are my always favorite. There's Steve Earle. And I went to see him at Massey Hall this summer. And I sat with... Who did I sit with? It was Dave Hodge. No, no, but Dave Bedini. I sat with Bedini and Tim Meck.

Tim Meck, guitar tech. But Tim Meck also has a band called Tim Meck's Peep Show. Tim Meck, guitar tech to Carlos Santana right now, but also to Elvis Costello for 100 years. And then Dave Bedini, of course, needs no introduction. And I was sitting off to the side all alone in an empty section, well, sort of empty section, and ran into those guys. And they said, hey, come sit with us.

There's an empty seat beside us. So I did. And it turned out sitting right beside us was a Jitters fan, which I think we wanted to know how things were going and were the Jitters going to get back together. This is in the break, and I think Bedini was getting annoyed. He said, let's talk about real stuff. Exactly.

And Steve Earle, by the way, full audience, full of boomers yelling, we love you, Steve, making it all about them, you mother. Anyway, you go to a show not to make it about yourself. Okay, folks, listeners. Did anyone ask him to play Freebird? That's what I want to know. That old song. Badini, have you attended any of these West End Phoenix events

happening in the new space? I haven't. I should. You missed Art Bergman there? I'm an admirer of Bedini as well but I have to say the West End, East End divide in Toronto really bugs me.

And so when he launched the West End Phoenix, I was like really? Do we have to do this? You know, the idea that to me it's like... Well, he's an Etobicoke guy, David Bedini. But it's the cool kids in the cafeteria thing that bugs me. It's sort of like, yeah, we're in the West End. I have friends who say, I won't cross the valley.

I've invited them to my home, and they're like, yeah, I don't cross the valley. I've come around on this as I age. I think because I was born and raised in the West End, I always felt like once I crossed Yonge Street, basically, I wasn't quite sure where I was. It became the Hinterlands or something. I know. Well, you came to my house, though.

Well, that's because in the last 12 years, I've only in the last decade or so adopted this. I bike everywhere rule set. So if I'm invited to, I'm thinking of a lot of my East York friends and Bob Ouellette, who tells me he's in the old Toronto because he's on the other side of the Danforth.

But all these times I have to venture, or Cam Gordon, or going to the only to see Ron Hawkins, all these places. I bike there, and I've got brand new appreciation for how wonderful it is in East York. I don't get as much time in Scarborough as I'd like, although I did bike through Rouge Park. Beautiful park.

Oh, God. Oh, my goodness. It makes our little high park look like a tiny little stamp or whatever but there's and i mean i did a ride to the scarborough bluffs i know that's where larry gowan lives he lives by the bluffs there yeah like i have such appreciation now for what's happening east of young but without a doubt toronto has this whole west end east end thing and it's stupid. I think so. But, you know, I guess it's where you're from.

Anyway, so I didn't. It's what you're comfortable with. Yeah. I was always a West End guy until it came time to buy a house. And at that time, I could get a house for $149,000 on Dagmar Avenue at Jones and Dundas. So I did, my ex-wife and I. And then I became an East End guy. And my West End friends were aghast.

Swinghammer said something. Everybody said something. Like, really? You're moving to the East End? You know? It's like, really? You're making a remark? Like, I'm buying a house.

I have a chance to buy a house. Right. You know? Right, yeah. But I know where that's coming from and i think it's all in fun but i will say the west end phoenix uh for the longest time never went close to us you know the other side of the humber river like so the west end phoenix really did seem to end at the humber river it wasn't going to go west to the humber river right like we are

forgotten here but again much like you you know you found a house for 149 i paid significantly more than that but when i was buying a house with my uh my current wife monica my last wife i suppose then uh you know we were priced out of a lot of the spots you know you can't go live in like the high park area or even the junction and all this without you know you just you can't afford it that's how i ended up here and i'm glad i did i do love it here but that's the reason i ended up in new toronto you've made this your neighborhood. 10 years now and right on the waterfront trail

and I can bike to Blair Packham's house. No problem. That was a great day, by the way. Although I thought it was your birthday. You know that, right?

I thought it was a birthday party and I think I might have said happy birthday to you. No, I think it was shortly after my birthday. So in fact, it could have been.

Oh, so it could have been like a birthday because then I found out it was just a party and I met a lot of cool people there. It's just a party. Like a scream queen was there. I'm trying trying to remember her name but there's a scream queen

like she would be uh screaming in horror movies there was a woman there i had a good chat with in your backyard a scream queen i'm trying to figure out who that was it wasn't leslie leslie donaldson i can't remember names right you should look up even right now in this moment you should look up Leslie Donaldson Leslie is spelled L-E-S-L-E-H Leslie Donaldson she is an actor who has appeared in movies

that you would have seen okay here's what I'm going to do I'm going to play your next jam okay and then you'll look her up she's a lovely person on the other side that might be the woman

I talk to let's find out. guitar solo I love you. Twice as far apart As it was the first time I said goodbye Twice as far apart As it was the first time I said goodbye And no one will I ever wanna know

What I've been through Yeah, man. Black Crow. I saw them two summers ago with Canada Kev and Stu Stone. Oh, wow. Good times. I have never seen them.

I just love this album so much, Shake Your Moneymaker. Is that, actually, wait, is that? Yeah, Shake Your Moneymaker. Okay, yeah Moneymaker had the cover of Too Hard to Handle and yeah. Yeah, it was a beautiful record. I noticed that some of my choices here are like southern rock

kind of things. Yeah, a lot of them have a country flavor with Jason and Jason Isbell and yeah. And of course Steve Earl. Yeah, yeah. Youle yeah it's funny my go to jams as you young people say you hate that thing

their songs kick out the songs I know but kick out the jams it's from the MC5 it's like my go to's would be sensitive singersongwriter songs because they make me cry. Jim Croce. Well, maybe not Jim Croce, but sure, sure.

But then, like, I like so much music that I could just sit here for years, literally years. We can do that, you know. We could do my Blair's New Wave favorites, New Wave jams, you know. In fact, we could play the jam, you know. We could do my, Blair's new wave favorites, new wave jams, you know. In fact, we could play the jam, you know. If we do new wave jams, though, we can bring in, from New York City,

we'll bring in Rob Bruce to react to your jams. There you go. He'd love to. That'd be great, yeah. And, but I could do, I could do folk music, I could do country music,

I could do, you know, there's so many genres. Jazz, even, even, which is a bit of a stretch for me, but, you know. But the hard rock guitar stuff, and I know this isn't, by today's standards, isn't that hard. It's not Swedish death metal or anything like that. But it's, you know.

Well, compared to yesterday's Kick Out the Jams, which you probably haven't listened to, this will seem like elevator music. Well, yeah. What was... Okay. Our name is Sanaya Saperji and she's a sports media... She's currently with The Athletic

but she was at the Toronto Star and she covers sports. And it was heavy stuff, man. I think it might be the heaviest jam kicking out of the... Whatever,

the 150 we've done. No kidding. Okay, well, I will listen to that. Check it out. Yeah. Because I consider this heavy-ish.

Well, it's Q107 music at the time. At the time, yeah. It's Black Crows. And I dig, yeah, the brothers, the Robinsons. I dig it. But I want to get back to Leslie Donaldson for a minute. Leslie, L-E-S-L-E-H. This is the woman I chatted.

She was in your backyard. We had a good conversation. And she was known as Scream Queen. That was her title. She's a Scream Queen. Here are some of the films she was in. Shout scream queen that was her title she's a scream queen here are some of the films she was in a shout out to ridley funeral home she was in a movie called funeral home she was in a movie called happy birthday to me curtains deadly eyes and she appeared on uh friday the 13th the series so i guess there was a television series let me see her debut was in

running but you know as you look at her credits it's a whole whack of stuff you would know and love just to shout out a couple the littlest hobo we always like to shout that out and a bunch of these Star Wars like there's one called Star Wars Droids she did 13 episodes in 1985 and then she was

in Ewoks she did 13 episodes of that show Night Heat Street Legal Cynthia Dale will be in the basement in early december so don't i just said street okay she did an episode called the firm so maybe we'll talk about that but yeah the screen queen is a friend of yours i guess a neighbor and i remember her husband too is an actor and i wish i could remember his name but david blacker yeah and he's done some cool shit too. Yeah, that I don't remember off the top of my head, but yes, he has.

Like an ENG type stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He seems like a nice guy. I don't know him very well. I don't know Leslie that well, but we've gone for walks in the neighborhood and stuff. You know, I took up the habit of walking during the pandemic. Yeah, it is.

So, again, this will be a longer jam kicking because I realize I have a lot to catch up with you on. And we're only on song number six. We've got three to go. Okay, good. Yeah, we have three to go. But just play a bit of this

because it came up around Halloween. We did an episode of Toast and I kicked this out. Yes, you did. Did you? Check this out. Yes, you did. Bobby Boris Pickett in a parking lot, Sarasota, Florida. The evening air is not too hot. It's Halloween night, 1992.

Bobby Boris Pickett with a pickup van. We're hoping just to make a splash. But thinking not tonight as they all shake hands and crank up the chords to the monster mash 20 people in Seoul glance up from their beers as Bobby is introduced

and for the millionth time in 30 years the monster's revived and let loose And they clap for the one-hit wonder Laugh at the tune they know And they dance and they sing to the song That they first heard So many years ago Okay, I'm sure I've said this

in a previous visit of yours, but this is a great song. Thank you. You're a good songwriter. Thank you. Thank you very much. You should consider that being your occupation.

I should actually pursue it, perhaps. I should actually be more busy doing it. Yeah, go ahead. Well, I was just going to say I had a record release listening party in a studio and Ron Sacksmith came and sat directly between the speakers, right at the mixer.

And this song is like number six on the album, I think, and he listened and didn't say anything. And I'm talking to people who are listening, and we're playing it pretty loud, but he turned finally at the end of this one, and he went, that's a good song. That's praise from Caesar me I thought the rest are

chopped liver we gotta talk about that I feel like I'll be your Dr. Milk but I'm glad to hear you listened to the most recent episode of Toast because I basically the way I built it up is that Bobby Boris Pickett yes he has a hit

number one hit, Monster Mash. Yeah. And he kind of reworks that song for like the rest of his life. Like there's the

monster rap at some point in the 80s. There was the Christmas Mash or whatever, which was like the Christmas version

of the Monster Mash. Yeah. And then he got into some environmental stuff, which got very political near the end where he was talking

about George, I think it was Bush Sr. was chopping down forestry or something. And then he got in about climate change, the climate mash or whatever the heck. So whatever. It's wild, actually. And then I capped it off with this song. And I had everybody. It was Rob Proust and Bob Blythe.

I'm like, guess who's singing? And it was really fun. One of the guesses was Ron Hawkins from Lowest of the Low. Another guess was Stephen Page from Barenaked Ladies. They were close with that one, of course. But it was you. This is you. So what did you think of the chat about One Hit One Day?

Oh, I loved it, of course. And very flattering, and I appreciate it so much. So, yeah, no, it was really good. And I do notice that because of the subject matter, every Halloween a few people will post it on Facebook and that's nice. But it was nice to have that escalate a little

bit. Right, and lest we forget, this is like a true story. Yeah. Like this story you tell and it's great storytelling. Sort of like that Billy Bragg. Billy Bragg tells these great stories in these songs and you're doing it in this song. And you're talking about a true story. Halloween night in Florida?

1992. In October 1992 in Sarasota, Florida. Stepped out of a movie theater with my then girlfriend, Arlene Bishop. The great songwriter. Yeah, she's great. Yeah. And we had just seen Public Eye with Joe Pesci. And there was Bobby Pickett on the back of a flatbed truck,

a bunch of hay bales around in this parking lot, and it was Halloween night. And he was performing the Monster Mash, and I immediately went into sneer mode. I was like, oh, poor fucking guy. And then I thought, wait a second, nobody's going to ask me to play Lasseter and Hot Fools. And the jitters had only broken up the year before.

If you come to TMLX 14 on December 9th from noon to 3 at Palma's Kitchen, you can do exactly what Bobby Boris Pickett was doing. You can play Last of the Red Hot Fools. With a pickup band and on the back of a flatbed truck? Because I'll do it. See if David Quinton Steinberg

wants to come play drums on it. Yeah, not that different. Okay, great. There, not that different. But okay, great. And there's a new toast, I think. Okay, I'm in Montreal for a bit. Then next week, we'll have another episode of Toast with Bob. Bob will let the radio guys.

So we're actually going to kick out radio jams, which we've never done. So songs about radio, that's in a couple of Sundays from now. Let's get to your anti-penultimate jam. If you were mine I'd give you all the world If you were mine I took you higher But you got me wasted Oh, you're so cold Give me time

Oh, the time is so weird The girl goes up to my mind I try to get you close to me But the night when my eyes are closing You'll be with me Just let me be Let me believe You're mine

Cause there's nothing wrong here Let me believe you're mine. Cause there's nothing wrong here. I'm just living. Living in a dream. Woo! More Southern rock. Yeah. Yeah, the Archangels, Charlie Sexton and Doyle Bramhall Jr. Saw them live.

The Jitters were still together. I went with Matt Greenberg, the band's bass player, our band's bass player. And we marveled at how loud they were and how great the guitars sounded. And they had these boutique amps. And we were still on the road at that time, so we wanted boutique amps as well. But the sound of this record, and it's really old.

I'm sure it sounds very old-fashioned to anybody younger than you and I. But to me, I don't know, I just love it. I love that sound. I try not to be stuck in songs that I loved when I was a teenager because I think that's a pretty typical thing. But it's funny. Listening to all this stuff and knowing what a CFNY head you are,

I almost feel defensive and you're not even making me. No, this is all in your head. I love that Aztec camera too. I love psychedeltec Camera, too. You know, I love Psychedelic Furs. Well, you get... This is your second jam kicking. You'll get a third. Okay, good. I pledge.

You can kick out your Psychedelic Furs. Yes, and I can tell you which ones I recorded at the Alma Combo for CFMY Broadcast. Right. Aztec Camera, Psychedelic Furs. I have to think of the other one. You should just kick out your favorite songs

from artists you've recorded. That's true. Yeah, you should do that. I will point out because I did not know a lot about Archangels so I had to go to do a little research

and I did not realize that this is basically after the death of Stevie Ray Vaughan. Yeah. Members of his band Double Trouble are in Archangels.

I actually didn't know that. It's like a super group. Is Chris, what's his name on drums? Chris Layden. And Tommy Shannon is the bassist you saw. Okay, so I recorded I didn't know they were in the band that night. And meanwhile later, you know

20 years later, I had played with and had lunch with Tommy Shannon at Stubbs barbecue house in Austin, Texas. And we had a lovely lunch together. That was nice. And then, but I recorded Tommy Shannon and Chris Layton and Stevie Ray Vaughan at

El Macombo. I was one of the assistant engineers. Oh no, I was the assistant engineer. Doug McClement was the guy who actually mixed it for a much music special. And there's another great episode of Toronto Mike with Doug McClement was the guy who actually mixed it for our Much Music special. And there's another great episode of Toronto Mic'd with Doug McClement. I think that was actually last

December, I want to say, like the week before TMLX, whatever that was, 12 or whatever. It's funny, you know, I listened to that episode and at the beginning my heart sank a little bit because I thought, oh boy, he's going to be, Doug's going to be a little stiff. He would answer you with yes or no questions. Yeah, yeah. But then he got right into it as I hoped and expected he would.

I've seen that movie a few times now where the guest is kind of like monosyllabic. How do you say that word? Friendly. Monosyllabic. But friendly. But then you've got to kind of loosen him up. You play a little bit. You kind of ask him something.

What's your favorite breakfast or whatever? At some point, they start to forget what they're doing and they just chat you up yeah and and doug has a million stories and i know because i work for him and he would tell me those stories and and they were great he's a great storyteller so so let me ask you this since there's several people you said mike you should talk to and usually i do almost always when you feel like it's on you now like if that guest is not a great guest or interesting it's like if that guest sucks, this is on Blair Packham. Like you're going to carry that.

Like you've let me down or something. As you pointed out when I mentioned my, when I said about, you know, I like other music too thing a couple of minutes ago. Yeah, you're very defensive

and I was attacking you. I know. You said this is all in your head and I'm thinking, as I listen, I think, well, I did recommend this person. They better be good.

And so, yeah, it's in my head. And then when you're listening to Doug McClement and you're like, oh, he's, I did recommend this person. They better be good. And so yeah, it's in my head. And then when you're listening to Doug McClement and you're like, oh, he's not amazing out of the gates. I've fucked up. I've ruined Toronto Mike because he'll never forgive me. Well, I don't go that far. I don't think I... You've got quite a

resume without me. But I do think well... Yeah, but no Jane Sibury without you. And I'll never forget my Jane Sibury. Yeah. Jane, by the way, has reverted back to usingury conversation. Jane, by the way, has reverted back to using Issa. Yeah, she mentioned she was thinking, I didn't know she did it. She decided to, yeah.

So I want to respect that. So yeah, Issa. She's something else. But yeah, I do feel a certain responsibility for some reason. It almost makes you, is it worth the risk?

Like, why should you be responsible if Doug McClement is a bit short with his answers and isn't telling a great story? Somebody said to me the other day, they said that a friend, before they had met me, a friend said to them, oh yeah, you'll like Blair Packham.

He's a little intense, but he's, you know, and I thought, am I intense? I'm like, really? I don't think you're intense. Well, but here's the thing. I want to be more intense and I want to take more risks. So if something's risky, like, you know, I recommend a guest that you're not thrilled with, that's tough shit. You know, like I want to be more risky. Well, that's the attitude, right? That's the attitude, is you've got to stop caring what other people think about you.

Well, yeah, that's a lifelong project. Well, of course, it's lifelong. But once you're like, I like me, I'm going to be myself, and if you don't like me, that's on you. I am more or less there. I don't feel you will dislike me if I recommend a guest who's a stiff, you know.

I don't, I'm not worried about that. I just think, oh, it would be a better show if that person was disappointed that. Yeah, it's not, I don't really think, oh God,

everybody's going to hate me. Mike's going to hate me. I don't think that I, you, you're in, I figure you're in. I felt a bit like so recently, um,

I had a similar deal where you brought in a couple, you've brought in people like, for example, uh, David Quinton Steinberg, like you literally walked him in and you sat with him. So we did something very recently.

I'm looking at this album here by Don Stevenson, who is going to be at Massey Hall coming up. He's in Moby Grape. I don't know Don very well at all. We've met a few times and he's been complimentary

about my music. And yeah, and I'm happy to know, you know, a rock legend, but I don't really know Don that well. So Gare Joyce knows Don, and Gare did what you did with David Quinton Steinberg,

where he's like, he walked him in and he sat him down here. And so Don Stevenson came on Toronto Mic because Gare kind of brokered that deal. And I loved the conversation and he was great. Don Stevenson was great. But then, you know, Gare's like, let's do it again. And then he kind of brokers this other thing, except this time,

three people at three different locations meeting remotely. And it was Roy McGregor. He's an accomplished journalist. And it was, honestly, it was fine. It was fine. It was great. It was great.

But now Gare carries this whole, like I got, Gare listens back and he feels maybe it's not a top 5% Toronto Mic'd episode or whatever. And he's carrying that. And I wonder, yeah, when you bring somebody in, it's like they got to be great. Or it's like you've let down this host. Yeah, and you let yourself down maybe in the audience.

It's the producer in me, I think. I want it to be great. Of course. I still think about the records I produced for Arlene Bishop, the aforementioned Arlene Bishop, my ex-wife. You know Arlene Bishop? Yeah, I know her quite well. And if she had something to promote,

I would probably twist her arm and get it. But she's not a self-promoter, really. But I'd probably get her to come in because she would have some funny stories. But I still think about the records I made with her and I think, oh, I should have done this differently. I should have done that. She used to call me, when we were married,

she used to call me king of regrets. And it's because I would express, I would say to her about something that happened years before, oh, do you think I should have done this differently? And it's just idle musing, really. Like I'm not beating myself up. And I felt quite secure that we loved each other i didn't feel like she was judging me and even now even if i'm second

guessing those productions with her i'm not thinking oh she hates me because i know i know even though we're divorced i know she loves me and i know i love her so you know beautiful yeah it is beautiful beautiful and you have beautiful son together we. We really do. He's a, he's a. Well, that's the thing. I also have children from a previous marriage. You are forever like, this is, it's not like, oh, we, we had, we had a thing and then we had to divvy up the CDs and move on our way or whatever. Right. Like, it's like you're forever married to that woman in a sense. Like you might not be sleeping with them and you know, whatever, but you having kids with

somebody, that's the big commitment in life. It's not even the marriage or the buying the house it's once you have a kid of somebody you're you're you're with them for the the long haul yeah i mean arguably with our son being 22 you know when he's launched and on his own i'll be i mean i already see less of arlene as it is but but uh you know but we spend holidays together like you partner, Yod, great musician himself, by the way, Yod Sylvester. Okay. And we've gone on trips together. We all went to Ireland together, the four of us. Yeah.

We went to Disneyland. Let me give you a gift here before we get to your penultimate gift. I love a gift. So this is a wireless speaker, courtesy of Moneris. You're going to love that. That's so nice. I have one of these, so I'm not going to...

Oh, you don't need another one. No, I do. I love the one I have. Oh, your son could get one maybe. Yes, exactly. I listened to it this morning. It really sounds great. It's a good one, right?

Yeah, it's a good one. So, obviously when you say, son, I got a gift. Here's your gift. It's courtesy of Maneris. You will tell him to subscribe to Yes, We Are Open. That's an award-winning podcast from Maneris hosted by will tell him to subscribe to Yes, We Are Open. That's an award-winning podcast from Maneris hosted by FOTM Al Grego.

Season five is dropping now. Al went out east. He went to the Maritimes. He went to Newfoundland. He's collecting these inspiring stories from small business owners, and then he shares them on Yes, We Are Open. And again, I think it might win another award this year. This is a quality podcast, and it'll inspire you.

And you can listen to it on there. And I will tell him, oh, and he probably already does subscribe. I'm sure if he knows his stuff, he's already subscribed. And then of course, you know, as he, you know, starts his career and has to consider things like money, he's going to want to learn how to plan, invest and live smarter. And that's where Raymond James comes in with the Advantaged Investor Podcast. Whether you already work with a trusted financial advisor or currently manage your own investment plans,

the Advantaged Investor provides the engaging wealth management information you value as you pursue your most important goals. Are you ready for the penultimate jam? Yes. You sounded unsure for a moment Short answer, yeah Here we go I like how it does that in the headphones It bounces back

Doesn't it sound great? I love it You gotta wear headphones for all music. Do you remember this one? I only remember the Girlfriend song. I don't remember much from Matthew Sweet. Okay. The guitar playing.

The tones. Oh. I don't know where I'm gonna live. I don't know if I'll find a place. I'd have to think about it some. That I do not wish to face. I guess I'm counting on his divine intervention. I cannot understand my God. Sweet Jam from Matthew Sweet.

Yeah. I don't know why it gets to me Yeah, the guitar playing, the tones. Like you say, the, like listening on speakers or headphones, but not on your laptop. The hearing, the way things pan and stuff. There's a lot of music I didn't even know, like that I'll hear on this program

and I have the headphones on and I don't even realize that panning is going on until I put it on in the headphones. Well, a lot of people don't because they listen on their laptops or whatever. If you listen to Beatle records with only one ear on, have you ever done that? It's crazy.

No, but I want to ask you about that because I just talked to sylvia tyson yes that in fact he she's playing the same event at massey hall that don stevenson is playing i saw that yeah i saw sylvia at the opening of hugh's room by the way and spoke with her very briefly so we were we were playing some four strong winds of course you can't have uh you can't have sylvia on and not play a little four strong winds and then in the headphones ian tyson is on the left like you can hear his voice in the left and you hear sylvia tyson in the right like this was their idea i guess of stereo at the time or whatever but i actually just wondered your thoughts on that like like uh when it comes like having one

voice in one side one on the other is that lazy or is that cool or whatever? Because I enjoyed that effect in the headphones. I think it's cool. I don't think it's lazy, but I do think it's risky. Like, I wouldn't make a record like that now. I would pan the vocals a little bit, maybe, just to spread them out a bit. But I'm kind of, you know, Bob Wiseman might make a record like that, you know, I'm pretty conservative when it

comes to stuff like that. Swinghammer might make a record like that, but I'm, I don't know. That said, you know, Beatle records where all the drums are on one side, kind of like this one, by the way, that all the drums are on the left side, I think, that all the drums are on the left side, I think. And, you know, all the vocals are on one side on a Beatle record. And when you're listening through speakers, you don't really know this. Yeah, drums are on my right. On your right.

Okay, yeah. Maybe you put the headphones on backwards. Exactly. Yeah. But, yeah. I don't know. So Matthew Sweet, I've never owned a Matthew Sweet album. I just remember the Girlfriend song was everywhere. Yeah, this is from that album.

Okay. Yeah. This is the opening song on that album. Okay. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah, with the picture.

Is it Kim Novak on the cover, I think? You know, it's called Girlfriend. From Rear Window? No. Yeah, like the actress. Yeah. And it's a picture. She looks amazing.

And it's a great cover. And I guess everybody thought, is that your girlfriend? And then they realized, no, that's Kim Novak. I think it's Kim Novak. Oh, I trust you on this one. I'm looking it up now.

Yeah. Yeah, Girlfriend album. Okay, let's see here. It's just a great evocative picture. Yeah. Like, you know, the cover of the album. Oh, you know what? It's Tuesday Weld.

Tuesday Weld. You know, Tuesday Weld, Kim Novak. I don't know. I'm just. Peter Gross has a good Tuesday Weld story. Does he? We got to talk about Don Shabib because Don Shabib directed a movie that was going to be Peter Gross's big break.

The follow-up to Going Down the Road is a movie called Ripoff. Yeah. Nobody, like, remembers. Very few people seem to remember it.

It didn't do very well. It was a kind of a... Oh, this song comes back, too. Very Beatles-esque. What do you think of these... Yeah, like, it was done. It was done and buried. Yeah.

And here it is again, rising from the dead. What do you think of that? I kind of love it because it's Beatles-esque. Yeah, it's Beatles-esque. Yeah. And here it is again, Rising from the Dead. What do you think of that? I kind of love it because it's Beatles-esque. Yeah, it's Beatles-esque. Yeah. I have never done it myself. Now that I think, now I think about it, I think.

Radio would hate that, right? Like, you know, radio can't, you can't do that for radio. But that was a great thing. The Beatles could because they were the fucking Beatles, you know. Right. They could do that and the radio would be like, okay, fine. So people thought Tuesday Weld weld and that was a photo from the late 50s they thought maybe that was uh matthew sweet's girlfriend yes the the big song

on the album the album's called girlfriend yeah yeah right okay amazing look at you okay so we only have one to go okay oh i'm just reading now a little bit about how they talk about his uh pop sense of noisy passionate guitar work recalling recalling the Beatles' Revolver, early Neil Young, and television. All of the above. I agree with all of that. It was credited to Blair Packham. He said it on Toronto Mike.

No wonder I agree with it. What are you up to these days? Give us a 411 on what's going on in Blair Packham's life. I visited a friend who was mastering a record with Noah Mintz at the Lacquer Channel. There's no one else to get mastered by than Noah Mintz. Exactly, Noah Mintz.

And he's the guy, we talked about the 1993 New Music Search earlier. Yes, Head, yeah. He's in Head. Yep, yep. So I visited my friend Becky Prokova, I always want to say Provoka, she's the Provoka, who was a student of mine years and years ago,

like 10 years ago at Seneca, and she's made a record, and it's really, really great. And she was getting it mastered, and I thought, well, here's a good chance to go visit Noah. So I went and hung out for an hour or two, and I said to Noah, I would love to have my record that is in the can saved for one song mastered by you, but I can't really afford it.

And I made this record super cheaply. I made it all myself except for paying a drummer, basically, and a bass player here and there. And he said, no, no, no, no, I'll do it. And we worked out a deal where he'll get paid, but it'll be... In lasagna from Palma Pasta. Yeah, basically.

Yeah, yeah. I've got to go over right now with his lasagna before it thaws. And you have a new speaker for him. Yeah. But anyway, so I'm so thrilled that he'll be mastering it, that it has brought my project back into focus. So I'm releasing a record. It's called The Impossible Dream.

And it's a bunch of acoustic songs with a band but uh acoustic songs uh by me and um yeah i'm excited about it very exciting very exciting now i need to recommend a fairly recent episode of toronto mike because we talked about these bob weisman episodes and maybe maybe he doesn't love doing deep dives and interviews where there's an artist. I love who definitely hates being interviewed and talking about his art and all the crap that goes on in this basement. And that's Hayden Desser.

Right. Hayden did come over for 90 minutes and it's a mate. I just want to, I highly recommend Hayden's Toronto Mike debut. We've become buds actually through a different channel. And Hayden, of course had a high school band in thor and thornley collegiate up in thornhill his high school band was him and

noah mince right wasn't gian gomeshi also in that school no not in the band i think he had his own thing going on and then if you listen to noah mince on toronto mic he just goes off on gian gomeshi the pretentious nature of gian gomeshi yeah yeah which is wild yeah so there you go it's kind of all coming it is thornley yeah yeah oh and one last thing that 1993 new music search cd has an entry from hayden called take and forever uh in fact lawrence nichols from low so low i kind of dropped this fun fact on him the other day and his mind was actually blowing like i was scraping the brains off the walls down here it was unbelievable But Hayden does not sing on the song Take. He wrote it and he plays guitar.

Noah minced his vocals on Take because Hayden didn't think he had a good voice and his buddy Noah did it. So Noah has two entries in the 1993 New Music Search. I want to channel Issa Sibri and say, I don't think that's a fun fact, Mike.

Even though I actually do. Get off my program. Oh, you just want to fuck with me. Yeah, well, I don't think that's a fun fact, Mike. Even though I actually do. Get off my program. Oh, you just want to fuck with me. Yeah, well, I just wanted to channel Isa. That's all. I know you have better taste than that. Okay, let's find out because we're going to kick out. By the way, I'm going to let people know you submitted 11 songs.

And I said, this is bullshit, Blair. You're losing a song. You really got mad. Well, because 11 songs, you knew I was going to sprinkle stuff. Like, this is going to be a two-hour episode already. Yeah. I said, which one do you want to lose?

And you killed the Neil Young song, so I'm going to let people know they're not hearing any Neil Young, but you are going to kick out Tonight's the Night, so maybe hold on to that

for the next jam. Yes, I will. Something like that. I will. But here's your final jam. Okay. I used to travel in the shadows And I never found another drive and walk up to you But now I am a man and I know that there's no time to waste, there's too much to lose

Girl, you said anything at all is another tune to call and I'll be right there for you First love, heartbreak, tough love, big mistake, what else can you do? I'll wake up, not make mistakes, what else can you do? I'll say anything you want to hear. I'll see everything through. I'll do anything I have to do. Just to win the love of a girl like you. A girl like you. You know, the Smithereens, I didn't, in A Girl Like You, could have been replaced by I'm an Adult Now by Pursuit of Happiness or Hard to Laugh or anything from Love Junk from their album.

Are you going to go see the Trans-Canada Highway? Oh, yeah. I'll be there, too. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah. We could hang out. Yeah, yes. It could be replaced by any odd song, any Sloan song. You know, I'm a big fan of, you know, if I come on again,

if you ever have me on again, I would love to do like all Canadian songs that I love. Canadian jams that I love. So Stephen Brunt did that and it was amazing. You're going to do that too. I would. I would. I bet that there might even be some overlap.

Who knows? But yeah. So it's not like this is one of my favorite songs in the world. I guess it is one of my favorite songs in the world. If it's not, you're doing it wrong. Well, yeah, the list is probably a hundred or... You're supposed to love these songs. Well, I do.

I love these songs. I guess what I mean is there are a lot of songs that could have substituted for this one, but I happen to like that riff a lot. Okay, you're being a little defensive there too, I noticed. Is somebody in your head telling you of all the smithereen songs, you chose a girl like you? No, it's not that.

It's that, oh my god, I love Hard to Laugh more by Pursuit. I love Cigarette Dangles by Pursuit of Happiness more. And this reminds me of that because it's from the same era, and the guitar tone is similar. So I'm thinking, I could have picked someone who's cool, you know, by odds.

No wonder you're at the Trans Canada Highwaymen. You love all these artists. I do. That's a hell of a band, you know. I've seen your buddy Stephen Page. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And my buddy Craig Northey, who's all over the one hit wonder song, by the way. That's a fun fact.

That's the odds backing. I don't know if that is a fun fact, Mike. Stop it, Issa. On one hit wonder, that's odds backing me up. On this show, we say you're Issa-ing that fact. Stop Issa-ing my fun facts here i'm gonna isa into it now you mentioned uh sloan because we talked about trans canada highwaymen so i'm here to tell you i did a i had this idea like i don't know a couple there's a very popular american

podcast called 60 songs that explains the 90s and this journalist named rob harvilla does this and pretty popular but it's very american like i listen to it and it's like well that's very american like of course because he is american he talks from his own i think he's from ohio or something like that but i always think of like the canadian slant on this or the canadian perspective on this or like you know and i always think that oh maybe i should do something like that but like that's like a full-time job for him he uh i don. He works for The Ringer and there's a whole thing.

I don't have time unless big sponsors step up and say we want you to do this. But I do kind of make time to do a similar thing, like these 90s CanCon songs I want to spotlight like in my own way.

And I chose for the first one, which was dropped a few months ago, I chose the song Underwhelmed by Sloan. What a great song. Which we'll hear, I suppose, at that concert he because oh i would i would think so yeah yeah um and you know and i and you turned slightly and i realized i remembered you're wearing your tragically hip shirt i you know i could have replaced that smithereens song with poets or with uh with little bones you know there

are there are songs that I also love. Anyway, I'm not... And Rob Baker's a big fan of yours. Well, yeah. I heard that through the grapevine. Yeah. Craig Northey from Odds gave him the album that has Monster... I keep saying Monster Mash.

Monster Mash. You did that too? Yeah, that has one hit Wonder on it and Rob really liked it and it was very complimentary. He's got good taste. So the reason I brought up the Underwhelmed episode was not so much to say, hey, I did this cool thing about

Underwhelmed months ago, but it's because tomorrow, which is Thursday, November 16th, 2023, I almost said 1923. 1923, when podcasts were at their peak, I suppose. But I am dropping the second in that series. It only took me a few

months. And I am doing an episode about Rusty's Wake Me. So, on the heels of the deep dive into Underwhelmed, there will be a Rusty Wake Me deep dive, and I think it'll blow some minds, and it will include, in a

weird roundabout way, it will include some Neil Young. So, that's a little teaser there, because we didn't play Neil Young today, but we will next time. Were you at the private party of the Canada Goose guy at the Rivoli? No. Unlike everyone else, I heard about it after. I almost had an exclusive because I was there outside the venue at Rivoli because I was leaving the Horseshoe Tavern that night because I saw Art Bergman there that night. Oh, the Art Bergman episode's good.

Oh, I bet. You should listen to that. There's an interesting guy. Yeah. He sat in the basement and it was wild. So there was tears. I think he wanted to punch me at some point and then he finally just gave up and said this is the greatest interview I've ever done and I believe him.

I believe him too. Blair, this is actually the greatest interview I've ever done. It's you right now. This was great. Thanks, man. Thank you. So much fun. And that brings us to the end of our 1,366th show.

You can follow me on Twitter and Blue Sky. I'm at Toronto Mike. Blair is at Blair Packham. You're also on Instagram, I noticed. Yes, BlairPackham.com, but also on Instagram and X. Sounds like a strip club or something. Okay.

Much love to all those who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. You're taking those fresh cans of Great Lakes home with you. Palma Pasta. I've got the lasagna in the freezer. Raymond James Canada. You got the speaker for your boy. No, that's not from Raymond James.

I'm giving credit to the wrong great sponsor. Mineris is giving you the speaker. Raymond James, we got to give something away. Recycle My Electronics. Everybody should listen to Cliff Hacking. He was over just a couple of weeks ago. It was a great episode trying to make it all about RecycleMyElectronics. Everybody should listen to Cliff Hacking. He was over just a couple of weeks ago. It was a great episode. Toronto Mike, all about RecycleMyElectronics.ca.

And of course, Ridley Funeral Home. See you all. Well, you'll listen to my Rusty's Wake Me retrospective. That's dropping tomorrow. See you all then. I've never known you. Oh, you know that's true. Because everything is coming up.

Rosie and Gray. Yeah, the wind is cold with the smell of snow. Won't be today. And your smile is fine and it's just like mine. And it won't go away. Because everything is Rosie and Gray. Cause everything is rosy and gray Well I've been told that there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who

Yeah I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of gray Cause I know that's true Yes I do Maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of gray. Cause I know that's true. Yes, I do. I know it's true. Yeah.

I know it's true. How about you?