Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Bob Elliott and Dave Perkins: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1789

Episode Date: October 31, 2025

In this 1789th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with legendary Blue Jays reporters Bob Elliott and Dave Perkins about the 2025 Blue Jays and how they compare to the World Series champions of '92 and '93. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, Blue Sky Agency, Kindling and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

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with the Blue Jays up three games to two over the L.A. Dodgers in the World Series. It's Bob Elliott and Dave Perkins. How are you two gentlemen doing? That's great to be us. Very well, Michael. What an honor it is. A couple of living legends here in the basement here.

you're going to the game six tonight, right, Bob? Yes, sir. So you're covering this game? You're going for business or pleasure or both? Well, I've been right in the home games. The only game I didn't go to was game seven against Seattle. I thought it would be a good idea to phone up guys who made the World Series, watching guys trying to make the World Series.

And I was talking to Hankie, and Hanky goes well we got a walk he's talking as if he's still with the team and I said no it's not a you're watching the wrong station it's three and one to Barger he said no we got a hit

I said who are you Jerry Howarth and he said well I haven't said yes sir which he always said after he runs right so then Hanky does yes sir I said what are you talking about Barger's still up so his feed was like 20 seconds ahead of me. And I said, you ruined it for me.

Spoiler. Yeah. I said, I didn't even see it. What, what, what a moment, barger there. Let's check in with Dave Perkins, FOTM, Dave Perkins. How are you doing these days, Dave? Fine, just, just fine. So I want to talk about, you know, what's going to happen tonight, the 2025 Blue Jays, and maybe do a little compare and contrast, like between the 92 and 93 World Series. Series champion Blue Jays and this Blue Jays, but maybe off the top, any predictions on who throws out, again, I'm going to timestamp this because this could be announced in two

minutes, but at 104 p.m. on Halloween, 2025, October 31st, 2025, we're now chatting. Does anyone here have a prediction on who's going to throw out the ceremonial first pitch tonight at the Dome for game six? I suspect it's going to be Pat Borders, but my recommendation would be buck Martinez uh you know he's got a 40 plus year link to this team he everybody likes them you know he's he's been through the middle this year he's back he's popular i would just i would do buck but uh you know that's just me i know jack morris is in town i know molotor's in town there's quite a few guys in town and i suspect uh i know that they were talking about borders but anyway it i mean it doesn't really matter but i was glad they got

CETO for the first game, but, you know, I'd go with Buck. What do you think, Bob? I think Buck's a real good choice to get people wound up. I mean, the couple of the receptions he's received when he's come back and they showed him on the board when he was up in the booth with Daniel Schulman. The purpose of it is to get people wound up and Buck would get them excited, I think, yeah. Do you think this is going to be the final season that, Buck Martinez is an analyst for Sportsnet Jay's coverage?

Yeah, I don't know anything, but I mean, I know he keeps saying he wants to do it, but I don't know. I think he's 76, so I don't know how much longer he's going to do it. I would not be surprised if this was his finale. I know some guys are still working on that age. Yeah, Bob, you don't know how to retire. What's going on, Bob? So do you ever plan to retire?

No, everybody said, Simmons Road, I left. I retired. I didn't retire. I just left the paper. I don't golf. I don't fish. I don't hunt. I don't do anything.

So I write about mostly college players, draft players. But I thought I should be, you know, writing about the home games. I mean, we don't have the budget to. I've been to two WBC. and maybe the next one in Puerto Rico. If I get approval from the home office, yeah. Now, I was talking to Dave before you arrived, Bob, and we were talking about how many World Series he remembers watching.

So he's going to give us his number in a moment. But what was the first World Series you remember watching on television? 57, the Braves and the Yankees. Yeah, he got me beat. Well, he's much older than me. I remember 59. I remember the Dodgers and the White Sox. and somebody not going to bear

on Alsmouth's head. I remember that. That was a classic photo. I don't know if it was... I mean, I heard two stories. One, the guy was doing it on purpose, but one, the guy was hoping for the ball and knocked it off.

Reaching for the ball, yeah. Amazingly, I don't think the bears were $18 in those days at Comiskey Park. You can afford to knock them over with your elbow. Just the disco record, too. So, Dave, you said the B word, beer. So you know, and I know the real reason you're here today, and I'm honored you're here, but you're here because you're going to go home of some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery.

I'd better. And both of you, gentlemen, are entitled to a lasagna. I have frozen lasagnas. They arrive today from Palma Pasta, and you're welcome to take home some frozen lasagna with you as well. All right. Or to the game, yeah. How does that sound? It sounds pretty good.

Okay, so we're going to talk 20, 25, well, maybe we should just remind the listenership. So you guys have been on here a couple of times. Bob came over, this is at least your third visit, Bob, if my math is correct. But Dave, you were over, well, maybe it's your fourth visit. I don't know, but each of you have been over at least three or four times. But remind the listenership, what were you doing in 92, 93, like in your career? Why would you be an appropriate place? We were sitting beside each other.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, Bob for the son, me for the star. I was, we were at a baseball columnist, I guess, is the best word. We weren't kind of the game story guy. We were the opinion writers, such as it was. But we were, yeah, we did a lot of traveling together all those years. And they were, they were incredibly busy years. You know, somebody asked me, what's the biggest difference between this team and those teams?

and those teams in 92 they'd had 10 consecutive years of playing over 500 ball by far to long a streak into major leagues and and for nine it turns out for nine years in a row they either won the division or finished within two games yeah so they never played insignificant games it wasn't like last year's bunch which was last every day to season and and everybody was sour about them uh you know and they come into the the spring with, you know, very minor expectations, I would suggest. But in those days, everybody had huge hopes for the Blue Jays and to not win something important was a huge disappointment.

And that was the big disappointment. There had a big difference, I would say. In those 11 years, Michael, I remember writing, figured it out, and they played six meaningless games. They got knocked out, like, I remember in Baltimore? more with one game to go. They got knocked out on a Saturday with one game to go. They got knocked out on the Friday with, you know.

But you should tell the people what's your, your attire. I mean... Well, we're all going to take a photo by the... There's not too many guys wearing that today. And it's faux retro. I left mine at home. So this is like a, it's a retro jacket, Blue Jace jacket from the first two world series.

And it was gifted to me just a couple of winters ago. So it's faux retro. Like, that's a big thing now, right? Like, pretend like you held on. to this thing since the early 90s, but of course you didn't. But I'm going to show it off in the tree photo here, which I can't

wait to do. But so it's interesting to me that you two might have been sitting beside each other for game six and 93. So is it fair to say you guys could have hugged each, not that you would cheer in the press box, no, that wouldn't happen, but

you could have hugged each other when Joe Carter hit the walk off Homer in the ninth inning of game six. No, we didn't hug each other. No, but you could have. Like, you were close enough. We were too busy.

You were like this. Except I was here and he was here. Yeah, we were too busy. You know, in 92, the first time, the son had a later deadline than the Star, right? But in 92, the Toronto Star made the

choice, and it was the publisher, John Hunter, who made the choice, we're not going to try to sell a paper that doesn't have the score of the game because you can't do it you couldn't do it so the star held the paper and this was 500 and some odd thousand circulation in those days it cost them a ton of money to to you know hold the paper and and when and that game went extra earnings the night the game six went extra innings and then people were panicking back here because we how could you

write the story you couldn't write the story till the game ended and when it ended we had nine minutes from the time of Timlin to Carter, Timlin to Carter. We had nine minutes to write and file. And things were not as instantaneous as that humanly possible? I mean, you did it. So I guess it is. But you always had to write against deadline. You always had to write a win lead and a lose lead and hope you killed the right way. Just make sure you sent the right one. Exactly. Yeah. One night, Milwaukee, I sent the wrong one. but I phoned and it didn't make the favorite. Yeah, you know, you could...

Like Dewey beats Truman. Wow, I mean, things happened so fast. You didn't even have time to turn your head and look at the other guy, much less, you know, we weren't hugging and dancing, that's for sure. No, but I guess my point is that you were together for game six and 92, game six and 93, so I think it's kind of neat that I've put you together in my basement for 2025 because this is where I'm going. Michael, there's a certain symbiotic relationship to all those.

Somebody could write a poem about this. I'm just glad I'm recording it because I just think it's something about this. How do, like Perkins, I'm going to call you Perkins now. Dave, like, would you have any interest in attending the game tonight? Like, if you could get a press pass, would you go join Bob in cover this game? No, I don't want to be in anybody's way. People in there are working. You know, I respect it.

There's people working. They don't need me to. around in their way. But, I mean, remind us, how many people would the Toronto Star have sent to Atlanta, for example, for the 92 World Series? And then we'll compare that to the number of people the Toronto Star will send to the dome tonight, which I'm guessing might be Rosie de Mano, Gregor Chisholm, and Mike Wilner. I guess, maybe.

I don't know. They don't consult me, believe it or not. It's significantly, it's probably room for you, is what I'm saying. I'm retired 13 years, so they don't consult me. But you are doing some writing for the star, I see. Well, they just, whenever there's an old-time thing, they got nobody there who remembered it, and I remember everything, unfortunately.

So they asked me to pump something out, so I, you know, invest half an hour and pump something out. It's not, it's all in my head. And unfortunately, I've still got all my scorebooks. So, and I kept a good scorebook. Oh, yeah. Yeah, terrific scorebook. So I can just glance at something I know exactly.

who hit the double and who didn't and blah blah blah so it's easy for me to reconstitute this stuff it kind of reminds me of i had a chat with damien cox years ago and i was asking him about bill barilco and he was telling me that you know he came in covered bill barrio no but mill donnell did and he could just go to his colleague and ask him what kind of player was bill like talk to me about bill and he had somebody there who could and it's it's it's awesome that you two are still producing content we can consume because you guys were there so you guys have seen

the Toronto Blue Jays you guys have covered a lot of us have seen it I watched it on TV but you have covered the Toronto Blue Jays winning the World Series so I just think it's awesome

that you're still pumping out content that we can consume yeah well I don't pump too much Bob does the pumping Bob's still pumping and Bob where's that check tell me about your jacket

it says it's got Bob Elliott 2003 to 17 that's we used to go to Wyoming flying to Denver on a Thursday see a basketball game Friday go to the football game Saturday

depending upon how cold it was some guys would go straight to a place called the library which was in the library it was a bar and it started with four guys I think and by the third year we were in a bus there was 33 people

so Fergozi went Kasten went to Clint Hurdle went We had, it was mostly, mostly scouts, mostly writers, but, uh, so anyways, I missed in 2018 and then I got sick in 2019, so I've been back and they told me, I, I remember asking the guy, can I fly and to New Brunswick to see my grandchildren? And he says, yeah, you can fly. You can fly anywhere except the Swiss Alps, Mexico City, and Denver because of the altitude. So, I haven't been back, so.

So in other words, that jacket's a little old. Yes. Well, 2017. I got a better one. You know, this new documentary on Who Killed the Expos? Yes, I watched it this morning. Well, did you see me in it? I'm in it.

Yes, I did. For about five seconds. I got to see this still. I mean, it's around 19 minutes. I'm in it for like five or six seconds, standing behind Charles Bromfin. Oh, it was Charles? Charles. And the worst part is I'd still have the same job.

jacket somewhere in my closet so hey is uh i haven't seen it yet but is richard griffin in this uh no no it how about him this thing missed the boat in my opinion uh yeah i think it badly missed the boat but that's that's a story for another day but they there's a lot of people they should have talked to that they didn't well i as i remember you're the you replaced yourself with richard griffin or what's the story yeah yeah when when when yeah i was baseball congressed and after the 93, they, I made a huge mistake. I went in to become sports editor, which was terrible.

And so I had to replace, I had to hire a replacement for myself as a baseball columnist and I hired Rich. Good hire. Yeah, well, some people never forgave me. We won't mention who, but anyway, yeah, that was, you're only going back 31 years on that. I'm going to read something for Bob here and then we're going to get into the 2025 Blue Jays okay and we can do a little comparing

and contrasting along the way and I'll just try to shut up and listen because I've got Bob Elliott and Dave Perkins here for goodness sakes nobody wants to hear my voice but this is from a guy we call in the community here Canada Kev Canada Kev you know you got to go to shopkinling.ca for your cannabis right buddy Kev does I'm sure

but Canada Kev writes hey Mike my boy Jack is watching his old coach Bob he's watching on live.tronomike.com He loved... Yeah. This is live? It's live for people who know about live. Better call my hair.

You look great, by the way. Camera loves you. Hey, Mike. My boy Jack is watching his old coach, Bob. He loved Bob and learned so much from him. Bob would know him as the shortstop Skinny from the Mississauga Twins. Yeah, I remember Skinny. Jack sent me this question for Bob.

So I haven't even read this yet. So hopefully this is appropriate here. It'll be a good one from Skinny. Wait. Jack sent me this question. question for can you send a message on your account because you need a lot of it. Oh, okay, so I hope I get this right. I'm reading it now for the first time, but what do you think about the Blue Jay's bullpen? This will be a good segue because I want to talk 20, 25 Blue Jays now, because I'm

feeling it. We might be clinching game six tonight. It's at the dome. I'm pretty jazzed. A lot of Jay's fans are excited about tonight. This is like, hasn't happened in 32 years. But the question here is, maybe we'll start with this, but what do you, Bob? And I want you, Dave, also to answer this. what do you think about the Blue Jays bullpen and how they've used them in this postseason? So at this point, I'm actually going to try to retreat into the background. I would love it for you, too,

to just talk about these 2025 Js who have surprised the F out of me. I can't swear in front of Bob Elliott. They've surprised me immensely, please. I could. You have. What? I would say they're, you know,

they're talking about their deadline deals, you know, like, he might be downgraded to Mr. Anthony, I think. He walks too many people for me to be pitching in the 8th inning. And Varlane throws a crap out of it. But, I mean, he's been okay in the World Series, but against the Yankees. And he got that big strike out of Stanton.

And against Seattle, he gave up some big ones. Yeah. My take on a bullpen is it's not good, but it's good enough. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's not a great bullpen. And I'm a little confused by the way it's used, but I'm a little confused by a lot of things they do.

So I've given up, you know, trying to figure out. Well, the little thing made zero against Raleigh, that made zero sense. Yeah, yeah. Bringing in a left-handed to face a guy with 60, a right-handed guy with right-60 home runs. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, you go back,

you hate to dwell on this kind of stuff, but in the game where they blew the 8-1 league, they brought in a left-hander to turn around who was it the turn around Carlos Santana no it's Carlos Santana they brought in the lefty that the guy

left when they I can't remember that one but Santana at the three run home and they started back remember when they were coming back from 8-1 and it was all about well we wanted to turn this guy around and I'm thinking eh sometimes they do things you know what I mean like the game two against the Yankees

when they're leading 812 nothing or whatever it was oh yeah and they and it's like he wanted to give everybody a participation ribbon and now it's 11-7 and bringing in everybody and the next thing you know it's yeah it's 11 6 or 7 or whatever and the Yankees were come back to life uh i there are certain things that happen and i wonder but once again it's good enough and it's way better than the dodger bullpen yes i don't know how the dodgers got to this point with this bullpen i how i understand maybe their second best guy, their best left-hander, is out for, you know, family reasons. I get that.

But, you know, everybody's losing somebody this time of year. Everybody's missing somebody. But they, that Seattle game, that's the one you're talking about the 8-to-1 game. Yeah. So it was our 50th anniversary, but it was celebrated on our 51st. So we're in Victoria,

taking the ferry over from Vancouver to Victoria and so I'm like trying to look at my phone and my wife's yelling on me so we're on this ferry it's supposed to be a vacation you know so I don't look at it so I go to the washroom

and I sneak a peek and it's 8 to 1 so now I'm sitting in the hotel room and I don't know what station it is you know so 11 o'clock news comes on and there's streamers and everything, and I was watching Seattle news. Like, I thought, I'm thinking who's going to pitch game three. And here it was, here it was, Seattle came back and Womptham.

As Richard wrote, they figured every possibility, except for Berrios would have the best game of his life. Well, better times now. So maybe let's get into it here. I'll throw a name at you, and then we'll talk generally about how, how surprising this 2020. team, but how I think they're an extremely likable team

and an exciting team and entertaining team. It's all coming together. We're up three to two, game six is tonight. But can we just talk a moment? Because you guys have seen a lot of baseball. Have we ever seen somebody do what we're seeing from Trey Yassavich? No, I haven't.

No, it's spectacular. They haven't figured them out. And everybody gets figured out. It's sooner or later, but he hasn't and you know second look the other night the dodgers just seemed to have less of a clue than they did the first time but i don't think he had his good pitch the first time right so so as smote said that was that was that was that was basically the first time they saw that pitch but uh i i don't know

like a friend of mine phoned me last night and he says this guy's going to win 20 games for 10 years I said, yeah, you remember Alec Manoa? You know, you remember Fidrich? You know, stuff happens. Yeah. You're like three-year-olds of a woodbine, you know, they break down. Of course, yeah. And, you know, Bowden Francis a year ago.

Yeah. Right, the pitcher of the month. You know, that was only a year ago. So, I mean, God bless this kid. He's been great. And, well, let's give him a chance to, you know, the next thing you need out of a great player or pitcher is longevity. That's what makes them good.

great it isn't you know a hot couple of weeks or a hot couple of months or a hot season it's longevity so it i mean great start he couldn't have a better start so let's just back up and and watch them go and seemingly out of nowhere because the average jays fan uh didn't really hear this name tree a savage until what august no but i mean you well he was the first round pet Yeah, the average Jay's fan could have tell you the first round pay. Right. But I mean, by the same token, for five years you heard what a great pitcher

Nate Pearson was going to be. Yeah. And it doesn't work on it. Or Arles Martinez's good. Or Elvis Martinez and now he's been really, you know, it's the hype machine starts on everybody and you sometimes need to back up and say, let's give him a chance. Let's see how this plays

out. Let's not declare greatness you know, too early. so it's things can go wrong that's that's all we're saying i remember i remember i love baseball america it does a wonderful job and everything but i was talking to a guy once and i said what about this kid because he had a blue jay prospect that was years ago and he says everybody in baseball america has a great future except for the guys in the old bit column shout out to ridley funeral home but i mean we were we were around we were still out there

when Roy Halliday threw a nine-inning near no-hitter in his second start, right? He won out from a no-hitter. And Roy Halliday, who we now know 30 years later, or almost 30 years later, is in the Hall of Fame and deservedly so and blah, blah, blah.

But after that, no-hitter, what happened? He ended up down in A-Bone. Getting rebuilt, right from the good day? Yeah, when... The bucks on him down? When... When, oh, no, the day was sent, no, I was there the day the, you know, no hitter when it was Higginson, right? And who caught the ball on the outfield?

Dave Steve. Dave Steve sitting in the bullpen, yeah. Really? Which was the most ironic thing imaginable. Steve had spent his career, it sounds like, with eight and two, third inning, no hitters, right? You know, that reminds me the story you guys shared, I think it was maybe the first time you guys were on the show together, but you told me the story of Dick Schofield, right? Yeah, that was Dick Schofield.

There's been two walk-offs to clinch in World Series? Well, you tell the story quickly, because then... That was my setup column for the World Series. 1960, Bill Maserowski hit the first walk-off World Series home run, and the pirate shortstop was Dick Schofield, the father. And in 93, Dick Schofield Jr. was a Blue Jay bench guy. And I remember talking to him, this is my setup column in the World Series, and said, you know your dad's in the picture greeting

you know Bill Maserosky at home plate in Forbes Field 19th City he said oh I know all about it we got the picture at home and I said and he said wouldn't it be something if I was blah blah blah so two weeks later Joe Carter hits the home run the second walkoff home run in World Series and there is a picture and Dick Schofield Jr. is in virtually

the same position really in regards the home plate that his father was in regards to Masoroski 33 years earlier. And I always say that that was the one kind of called shot I ever had on a setup. So I remember you telling that story. This is years ago now when you first visited. And I got goosebumps then.

I got them again now. But I've been dining out on that story. Like I've been sharing that story left, right and center. That's a crazy. But here's one. Not as good as that. But I'm sure you guys know this because you're Bob Elliott and Dave Perkins. But I know that first game of these World Series,

I guess Dalton Varsho went deep. I think he got the first homer in the first game of this World Series for the Jays anyways. And his dad, Gary Varsho, played with Darren Dalton. 93. Right. So Gary Varsho has a son and names him Dalton Varshow, same spelling as his buddy, Darren Dalton.

And then you see, you know, eventually Dalton Varshow would hit a home run in the World Series. And there was kind of, because Darren Dalton, of course, I buried the lead here. I don't tell as good a story as Dave Perkins. But Darren Dalton is behind the plate, of course, when Joe Carter touches him all. Not as good as the Schofield story.

I got to work on it, right, Bobby? No, that was good. Darren Dalton, they died at a very early age, and I remember the one guy, it was a reliever. But they asked him about Dalton after he passed, and he said he's a man's man, and he's every woman's dream. There you go.

They say the same thing about Dave Perkins. Yeah, right. Yeah, and one thing I would say about Varshal, I would say this guy is easily the best center field they've had since Devon White. And I would almost go to say he's as good a defensive player, period, as they've had since those days. Yeah, he'd be Bob Pilar, yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah, and the other guys. I mean, he was. And Mosby.

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Moseby was before Devon. Yeah. But, I mean, that's how good this guy is in center. He had the one bad game in the playoffs. I'm not sure maybe in Seattle or something. And it was absolutely shocking to see him kind of miss time a jump on a fly ball.

It was absolutely shocking. Like, the guy is so good. So you talked earlier about the hype machine for pitchers coming up and now people have given Trey Savage a pass into the Hall of Fame possibly, but we did the exact same thing with Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Like the hype around Vladdy when he was coming up, I don't think I remember hype for a prospect like that

in Blue Jay's history, although I only kind of started tuning in in 83. But I'm wondering as we, you know, here we are on October 31st, 2025, and if all goes well, we'll win in six tonight. Who knows, we haven't seen this game yet. But maybe if you two don't mind talking about Vladdy Guerrero Jr., the player he's become and what he means to this team. Well, he won the Baseball America's Player of the Year. The only other Blue Jade to win it, Derek Bell.

Right. You mean George Bell? Derek Bell? No, Derek Bell. Yeah. So you want to look up Derek Bell where he sits in the leaders, you know? So how does Derek Bell win that? Well, he had a great year at Syracuse.

Okay, I see. It's because nobody knows nothing. basically you know you have your best opinion you have your best idea but nobody knows nobody ever knows nobody knows for sure yeah am i miss remembering a prank that maybe joe carter played on day yeah you're remembering yeah they said they had the announcer in on it and they said we're going to give away a car to a fan in section 123 or whatever and carter i think it was a meaningless game Carter drives the SUV out onto the field, and it's Derek Bell's car. And, of course, the camera was zoomed in on Derek Bell, and Derek Bell's like,

that's my car, you know. That's amazing. But a little more about Vladdy. When he, he, at game seven, so we win game seven against the Seattle Mariners, and we advanced to our first World Series in 32 years and I remember watching Vladdy's talking to Hazel May or something

and he's got, his eyes are red like he's tearing up and you just realize how much he cares about this and that emotion, I love that emotion but what can you guys say about Vladi Guerrero Jr. Circa 2025? Well, I don't think he was the MVP

for the regular season. No. Post season or World Series or whatever probably, but Springer was the MVP of the 162 games. I know he didn't play 162, but Gararo's, you know, guys would argue with me, and they'd say, well, his exit velocity is, and he's hitting 302. I said, they're not paying him to hit 302.

They're paying him to hit home runs. Driving runs, yeah. Yeah. He, you know, coming into this postseason, he's absolutely flipped the script. You know, he was a career, 136 batter. Yep. In the postseason. He's like bonds.

Not, you know, before this year. And the last time anybody remembers in the postseason, he was getting picked off second base to kill that rally against the twins. Right. Now, he's entirely flipped it. Good for him. He's, you know, when the people say, well, he's making his 40 million, I agree. Whatever the salary is, you know, I don't really care anymore.

The salaries are crazy. You either earn what you're making or you don't. He's now earning it. He's had a very, very good, terrific postseason. It's, you know, he's driving in runs and hitting home runs, which, as Bob says, that's what he's paid to do. He's not paid to hit singles. But he's flipped the script, so good for him.

And he's played well in the field, too. He made like an Al-Mar play. Was it against the Yanke? He's going backwards. Hardhead ball. Man on second, he threw the guy out at third. Easy for fun. And then he made that play the other night in L.A.

Yeah. You know, come off the base and threw the guy out at third. I mean... He spiked the throw, but it was, you know, it was a pretty good pick by Clement. But I would say, you know, echoing what Bob said. To me, the three guys in this team

who got the most big hits this year were Kirk, Clement, and Springer. Yep. those guys got huge hits I mean Kirk is by far my favorite Blue Jay to watch because he's he's just a little round guy

who gives you 100% at all times he gets big hits he's a tough guy obviously the fact that he can't run it doesn't matter better to me here's the best way to describe this year's team compared to 92 or 93 is there's $700 guys

or $700,000 guys like Clement or Luke's or whatever they're playing like seven million dollar guys yeah exactly i mean and santander it's a you know write it off this year maybe you'll do well next year i don't know but they've had now is that is that good management or is that catching lightning in a bottle tell me what do you think i've asked myself this very question i don't know i mean i i i could see them like clement's been released twice so cleveland was wrong about them oakland was wrong about them and toronto was

right about him or maybe he just got better well you know the man the man's been uh he just hits as a big liquor yeah luke's 10 years in the minor leagues i mean god bless these guys you know yeah it's a great story it's it's terrific and and throughout history of world series time lots of guys you never heard of bob hazel jump up and do things and it's and it's always a pretty interesting story you know when when a guy comes out of nowhere to to you know grab the world by the ass for a week. It's terrific. But who was that guy with the Yankees? He had the most home runs in the hundred about it.

Kevin Moss? Yeah. What happened to him? Right. Well, sure. Gone, you know. But, I mean, you know, lots of guys have shown up big time at the biggest times. And it's so nice to see these guys do that. Can you two gentlemen who, I mean, combined how many seasons, baseball have you watched? That's a lot of baseball you guys have consumed.

okay can you off the top of your head think of a team let's let's let's let's assume the jays do close this deal let's say we win our third world series okay let's be optimistic here have you ever seen a team come out of seemingly nowhere to do what this 2025 blue jace team has did because you guys both said and i'm 69 mats so tell so last every year basically you know 19 before braves went worse the worst sort of minnesota yeah lots of lots of teams have gone worse the first And I don't think I don't think the American League East is the same this year

as it was in 92 or 92. No. It's competitive. But remind me, the Braves don't win it all until 95, right? But they weren't worse the first in 95. So they don't. No, it was the worst

the first World Series in 91, both teams, which they lost. Which they lost to Morris. So 69 Mets, we're looking at the Miracle Mets if you want to find a comparison. And, and one, Once again, you know, improbable catches, you know, Cleon Jones and Swabota in the outfield. The guys who weren't known for anything making these plays.

And you look at the pitching staff and they got, you know, Seaver and Nolan Ryan was a kid in the bullpen. And, you know, Coosman, they had arms and everything, but to come from nowhere. And that was, you know, it was, they were a hundred to one shot at the beginning of the year. away they come and in those days you had to win yeah you know you had to win yeah there wasn't any wild card yeah yeah there was no wild card so I mean that that was the first

great I mean that you go through the 60s Yankees for the first half of the 60s Dodgers for the middle third of the 60s Cardinals for you know the latter part of the 60 then the good Oriole teams you know 69 to the 70s and then the Oakland dynasty in the early 70s, the Cincinnati dynasty, and then the Yankees got good again, then the Dodgers got, like there's always been strong teams, there weren't necessarily teams coming from left field to do it, but there have been a few, as we say.

And this would be considered one of them, for sure. Like in April, again, I'm no expert, but I know I was talking, I think Keegan Matheson, and I was, I was thinking this team's going to miss the playoffs in 20, a team. didn't seem like there was any seemingly, any upgrade of note from last year's team to this year's team. Like, and again, these names you dropped, like, okay, barger, clement, Lucas, Schneider. Like, to me, these are guys. These are just guys.

And they're playing, they're playing like, over their heads. Over their heads. Yeah. But it's all come together. But here, to me, the biggest difference of all was they started to catch the ball. And they've caught the ball pretty well all year. And they don't strike. out a lot.

Yeah, and they don't strike out a lot. I mean, they did early on. Yeah. But it seems that things changed once a couple of guys got hurt and get out of the lineup. And all of a sudden, some guys were coming in, taking pitches, falling pitches off, extending pitches, you know, running up pitch counts and everything. But to me, the biggest difference was they caught the ball. Jimenez is a terrific defender.

Oh, tremendous. He's a great defender. That's why I think they're going to be all right. Bichette leaves. I mean, that guy can play shortstop. Yeah, exactly. What do you think happens with Bo? I think he's probably gone.

That's my feel up. I think he wants to go, and I think he's probably gone. But I also think Eddie Rogers will want to spend more money than you can imagine to keep him. When I was writing, Michael, I mean, I don't know how many times I knocked Edward Rogers for not spending.

So we have to compliment them for spending. I mean, I keep reading, you know, David versus Goliath. You know, the one team's number one in salary and the other team's number five. This is not David versus Goliath. Right. Yeah, I mean, this is a team with a huge payroll. And, you know, they weren't getting their money's worth before this year.

Now they are. Yeah. And the payroll is going to go out of sight next year because they got, what, nine guys eligible for arbitration. You know, Vladigo's the 40s. million. Haminez goes to 15. I mean, you know, Varsho's what made eight or nine this year.

He'd go on 15 or whatever in arbitration. Like there's a ton of numbers going to go up. Nobody loses an arbitration. No. And like Bieber, Bieber's a free agent. He got an option, so he can go free agent. So, you know, I mean, he can turn down a 16 million or he can go free agent. Well, he's going to get more than 16.

He assured that the other night, I would say. I would think. So you mentioned Roger's spending money, and that's a good segue, because I want to ask you about George Springer. Because I remember when we signed George Springer, it was a sign like, okay, we are willing to spend some bucks and put together a team. But, again, I'm no expert like you two. That's why you're here.

But in 2024, when I was watching Blue Jays baseball, I was thinking I was watching an over-the-hill George Springer, who was done, like in 2024. Oh, exactly. How about this spring? He had one hit, all of Spring Cranon. I mean, I know they don't play every day. they play every other game, they only play half the games, but one for Florida, that's not a good sign.

And where was he last year? He was second last among qualified hitters, lowest average. So, like, how does this, I mean... I have no idea. He's 36 years old. It's a fountain of youth thing. Once again, good for him, you know. Sometimes old horses can put out a good race.

Well, yeah, sometimes they do that, though, with, you know, banned substances. Like, we're doing this clean. Like, you know, like, Bonds can do what he does, but then we can find out he had assistance, right? So, you know, by all accounts, Springer's doing this the good old-fashioned way. On Hay and Oaks, as we used to say.

Hey, you know. So speaking to George Springer, who I'm told by correspondent Canada Kev is going to play tonight. Like, apparently, that's exciting for me, personally, that sees Springer in the lineup tonight. But in game seven... As the D.H?

I believe so. I mean, yeah, of course, I think so. But game seven of the ALDS, Springer hit, I'm trying to remember now, three-run Homer, right, in the seventh. Do I have those things right? The CS. The ALCS.

CS, yeah, I'm sorry. You know what? He hit it on Hanky's TV 20 seconds before it was on my TV. The ALCS, of course, of course, against the Mariners. So I'm curious of you two who have seen all the big home runs in Blue Jays history, but where do you rank? Let's say, let's put a caveat. you it here. Assuming the Js win the World Series.

Big assumption there, because we've got a lot of work still to do here. I say we, like I'm on the freaking team here. Okay. We've noticed. Where, my apology. I can cheer. I'm not in the press box. Where, that's why I'm wearing this jacket. Where would you rank the Springer home run in the ALCS that in game

seven? Where would you rank that amongst the pantheon of... In team history? Yes. I say four. So before we go to Bob, last night on TV they said guaranteed one and two with cards. Showman and Buck said guaranteed one and two of Carter. No, I think Alamars was bigger.

I would think Batisus was bigger. I think Sprague's was bigger. Yeah, Sprague was a big one. That's what I got, I got this at four. Let's hear the ranking from Dave. Okay. One is Carter, walk off World Series home run. That's unchallenged, in my opinion.

Two was the Alamar home run that turned around the ALCS, and you need the perspective on that. It was the ninth inning. They had lost the first game. this is 92 they had been they'd blown the 3-1 lead in 85 they'd had the monumental collapse

in 87 Oakland had made them look sick in 89 and they'd blown and stole second base on Ernie Witt and he stopped the 88 feet put his hands on the tip I mean it was humiliating 91 they lost to the twins

when they were a far better team so in 92 people were pissed at the Blue Jays. Yeah, they were known as the Blow Jays. Yeah, they were called the Blow Jays, and everybody was mad at them. They lose the first game to Oakland,

and everybody's going, here we go again. Second game, they're down, two runs in the ninth inning, Eckersley on the mound, strutting around, preening and everything, right? They're going to go down 2-0, and 8 million people in Ontario are going to say, same old Blue Jays. Boom, Al-A-Marer hits the home run.

they win in extra ratings and not turn that series around so to me that's number two and you know who walked before alimar's home run no Derek Bell Derek Bell lead Derek Bell yes he had his car back and then and then I'll I'll go to the next step now you're going into the now you're in the world series in Atlanta lose the first game right second game the dope flies the flag upside down everybody's pissed but people are forgetting it's 4-3 in the ninth inning for the Braves with the clothes are in Reardon yeah

Jeff Reardon's in a walk and Ed Sprague comes up and hits a pinch hit two-run homer to turn 4-3 losing into 5-4 winning second pinch hit turnaround home run in World Series history

the previous one was Kirk Gibson right and my lead was that day that home run was Kirk gives him without the limb. Right. Very good.

So, and once again, if he doesn't hit that home run and the next guy doesn't hit a home run and the game ends and they lose,

they're down 2-0 in the World Series. So to me, those two home runs because they were in the ninth inning, it slightly outpaces seventh inning home runs

because the game still might have turned. You still had two-plus innings to turn the game against Seattle and the Batista game and blah, blah, blah. They were huge, huge home runs, no question. But I'll stick with my three. So you've got Spring at four?

Right, because it's, yeah, yeah, Carter, Alamar, Sprague, and then Springer, for you, yeah. Okay, over to Bob Elliott, where do you rank this Springer home run in Blue Jay's history? I would go Carter, Almar, Batista, because they've got they've got I remember tweeting as often as they tweet

but the 500 level is throwing beers on the field when Dale Scott goes like this no it doesn't count and everybody makes fun of Harold Reynolds but I remember watching the replay and Harold Reynolds he said that's live the ball's the guy scores

so I've never seen it before but you know so anyways they talk and everything and Gibbons gets kicked out and then he went out again and then he went out again and they're throwing beers the 500 level except they've got 100 level arms they aren't reaching the field so gibbons is walking off going into the dugout and he says he says he's I wonder if that Beeston just threw that beer and then he said he said I'd land and it squirted because it was full and he said no way Beeson would throw a full beer so uh I would say I would say that thing I don't know

what would have happened if they had lost on a bad throw off the bat that was a i think a 56 minute inning yeah yeah they made a whole hour documentary just that seventh inning absolutely so that that's important and you know what the actual rule is why it was legal is because the umpire cannot call time except for two reasons the lights go out or there's an injury the umpire cannot take a ball out of play oh except for those two reasons legitimate reasons well if you if you watch it if you see it again martin goes down on his right knee he got lazy and he just flipped it yep and hit the back it's cinchoo too right yeah he was fixing his sleep and they they argued that it was intentional right it wasn't they looked that he did it all the time too was looking the other direction

yeah he was looking at the outfield yeah is john schneider uh a good manager John F. Schneider. That's what I called him last week. Oh, because... John F. Schneider, F. first favorite word. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Although I noticed when he talks to the Fox guys,

he's able to censor himself. Well, MLB read him the Riot Act. Yeah, that's... I mean, with kids, like, in 1957, the bravest manager was not saying that you know exactly you know like i mean i know it's cool he thought it but yeah yeah but you know it's not i don't think it's necessary for kids watching and i'm an old fogey but uh is he a good manager is he a good manager i think uh i think he followed the script in minnesota and i think maybe he said he said the other night in the interview

that he's he knows now when to vary and everything but I don't see why he would bring in little to face Cal Raleigh

I would think that would have to be a two o'clock decision or a noon decision I see a lot of that too it's I for me he's got to go

into the same class as the bullpen not good but good enough and the other the other thing is like like that extra inning game that 18 inning game

like the line up their lineup that they finished with that's what you send to fort mire's for an night yeah like like bachette was out berger was out barger was out springer was heard you can't do anything about that but i mean they were they could have played 25 innings those guys weren't going to score yeah if and if if if guerrero wasn't going to hit nobody was going to hit yeah and he he got a couple of singles but you know they they weren't you know they weren't going to get beat by him it looked like so it was uh i mean it you know they all what we used to say at the racetrack they all look good in the winter circle yeah right so uh two three years ago

when when these guys were blowing postseason games everybody wanted his head why he's i don't see much difference no you know what i mean except now it looks like they're going to win something so they all are good in the winter circle It's a great point. I mean, two shots, yeah. Yeah, two shots. So, they had two shots in 92, and you know what happened in game six, right? Do you remember?

The headline in the Toronto Star was, Tonight's the Night. And the Toronto, Metropolitan Toronto Police Department put out a parade route. Yeah, it was a city, wasn't it? Yeah. The city put out a parade route. said, well, we're going to go here, we're going to go there, and then we'll take the trophy over here and blah, blah, blah.

And I can remember Howard Starkman, who's the PR guy. They were right, yeah. The Js were nuts. They were so mad. They said, this makes us look like jerks. You know, we're counting chickens, you know, the whole world's watching. Because of three, two, and, of course, you know. Lonnie Smith.

Lonnie Smith hit a bomb off Jack Morrison and boom. Now it's back that we all got to get in the plane and go back to Atlanta. And the Js were absolutely pissed and, you know, it's, it's kind of like chanting, we don't need you at Otani. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes you don't want to poke the bear. Like, to me, that, that's like the Leaf fans chanting, we want Florida. Right?

Right. I mean, they're full brothers. They're full brothers here, all these fans, right? We want Florida. Well, maybe they didn't, you know, maybe we don't poke Otani a little too much. As soon as Lonnie Smith hit the home run, Wicker phoned. Mark Wicker was in the football press box, now our main press box. Right.

And he says, did you read that story about the parade route? And I said, yeah, I did. He says, can you give me the streets? So the paper was there. And I said, yeah, it's down young or wherever it was, I forget. So he said, thanks. And I'm thinking, what do you want that for? I said, I know what he's right.

great route yeah it's so then you know i mean the same thing can't happen this time because they're here just for six and or seven depending there's no going back on the airplane but uh but that was uh that was one of those times you're kind of going gee let's maybe not do this i have a question for you dave perkins that came in from a chap named steve cole steve says ask Perkins about the time the Toronto Star had the opportunity to buy the New York Yankees. Goodman couldn't get the board to approve it. Correct. Yeah.

Now, that was before my time. That was in the 1960s. I mean, I was around, but I wouldn't work it. I was still in high school or public school. I've never heard this story. Yeah, yeah. When CBS, two guys owned the Yankees. Del Webb.

Well, Webb was one of them, and a guy named Mike, I forget his name. Anyway, CBS was selling the Yankees, and it was $1.4 million, there was a ton of money. Martin Goodman, the late Martin Goodman, who was the star president, and also the pitcher on the fastball team, later on when I was a catcher on the star fastball team. Anyway, Goodman had attended Columbia University in New York, and he was a huge Yankee fan. and he had, you know, relations and friends in New York and everything and heard that the Yankees were indeed for sale. So Goodman tried to get the Toronto Star to buy it.

And the Toronto Star had more money in Yoko Ono in those days. You know, they were loaded. Right. And Beelan Hendrick, who ran everything, he didn't know a baseball from that can of beer. You know, Beelan was not a sports guy, but it was left up to the board. The board would not go for the expenditure. 1.4 million, of course, was now, of course, what's it worth?

I'm a billion, you know. So, CBS sold the Yankees, and I just can't remember the name of the guys who bought him. But Mike, somebody, I remember the guy, long curly hair. Anyway, anyway, and then he sold it to Steinbrenner, and a way. way you went. But that's an actual, that's a fact. Martin Goodman, and we used to, in the 70s when I started

playing ball for the star team and I was catching, Marty was pitching, he'd lament, you know? I mean, this is when the Yankees were beating the Royals every year and go to the World Series and, you know, and he'd lament, it could have been us. We could own them. We'd blah, blah, blah.

But, no, the gentleman who asked the question was 100% right. So what year would that have been, Per? Early 60s? I'm going to say 64. Jack Kent Cook's team still here? Yeah. They were 67.

Yeah, but I mean, there was never any question of moving the Yankees here. That was not part of the deal. Oh. They just wanted to own the Yankees. You know, nobody in those days cared who owned what ball team or any kind of franchise. That's unbelievable. And shout out to the Martin Goodman Trail. I ride it every day.

Sure. That's, yeah. That's, that's Marty. Yeah. I'll give you Marty was a pitcher loved the pitch and when Marty he passed a cancer

and he was taking chemo and he took chemo in his left arm so he could still pitch with his right that's that's how what kind of player he was there's a chap named Len Lumber's here's a fun fact Len Lumber's was the 1,000th unique guest on Toronto

Mike because he came over with Blake Bell and we had Stephen Brunt on because we did an episode recently where we made a pitch, pun intended, we made a pitch for Dave Steve to be in Cooperstown. This was the premise here. So, shout out to Len. So before I ask anything about Dave Steve in Cooperstown,

he is curious about something I'm also curious about. He goes, Len Lumber's is wondering which writers stoked your fires. That's you, Bob Elliott, and you, Dave Perkins. Because when Stephen Brunt was on, he mentioned Frane and Abel as a couple of guys that stoked his fire as a writer. Who inspired you to write? um i started working in kingston and uh we were on the third floor and on the second floor was editorial and i was walking by there one night you know four in the morning or something

and i went in there and they had the winnipeg paper and they had all these papers i'd never seen before and uh they had the detroit news watson's bolster watson's bolster his grandson son uh I think he's the coach of the heat, the Miami Heat, I think. Yeah, right. And I read it, and I read it, and every night I went down there, and I said, wow, this guy can write, and, you know, and then I guess after that it would be Parrish and Michael Farber in Montreal and Mark Wicker and.

this guy here and Alan Ryan, you know, a lot of guys. I remember Alan Ryan's story about going up to York University and they all had the fake mustache and the basketball team. I don't know. I don't remember it, but

for him, he must have had a relationship to get a whole team to do that. It was a great, it was a great piece. You know, it's funny is I didn't really have people that I thought I ever wanted to be like. But the guy who impressed me when I was a kid, I was 19, I started working with a global male.

And Dick Beddoes was a personality, a huge personality. He dressed funny. You know what I mean? He looked funny. He was outspoken. He always, he was bald as a cue ball and wore a hat at all times. But he just had a huge personality. and he'd laugh at power, you know what I mean?

And he'd talk to the Harold Ballard's of the world. Oh, yeah, wrote the book on, or Pearl Hell, yeah. And I was, like I said, I was a kid. In 19, I turned 20. And Dick Bettos was a huge influence on me at that point. I thought, boy, maybe you can't have some fun. And it doesn't just have to be who scored the goal and who hit the home run and what time, you know what I mean?

It was, you could, you could write a little bit, you could have some fun, you could, you could, you know, go beyond facts, figures, who won kind of deal. So I would say Dick would be the first guy that, who kind of made me, look, that there was ways to do it. I got some breaking news you guys can react to here. We now know who will throw out the ceremonial first pitch for game six tonight at the dome. It is a Devon White. Oh, good. Okay, well, that's fine. Actually, I'd heard his name, too.

Good for him. Well, I mean, I hope they put on the screen that the catch in game three of 92, the triple play that wasn't. Or you won't see him any better catches. The catch, we can now call that the catch. Yeah, that was the next day it was the catch. He gave me the, so when Alex makes the trade for Toulowitzky and Price, and they finish, they're playing like $6.80.

or something like crazy, right? So on the radio, it's the best team in Blue Jay history. It's the best team in baseball. It's the best team in baseball history, right? Yeah, yeah. So one of the bosses says, why don't you get somebody to compare it to 92 and 93? So I asked Cito, he said,

I ain't touching that one, no thanks. And I talked to a couple of players, but Devon White was there that night. so he was going into Beeson's box I said you got a second he said yeah sure so we go and sit down in the old press box behind home plate and he danced

he wouldn't really yeah nobody watched so he gets up and he's walking across you know how they have the gaps like leading like where you can see that lead you into the press box where you so you can see the center field and he looks and he comes back and he says

I'll gladly discuss position by position, starter by starter, bowpen reliever-reliever setup guy with you, as soon as they have two banners up there like we do. Is that all right? I said, did that work? There's the quote, yeah. There's the quote, yeah.

That'll do. Now, I will say one thing about this team this year. Many, many years ago, I'm talking like 50, 60 years ago. I was watching a lot of Major League Baseball. And one thing struck me that good teams look lucky. You know what I mean? It's a mark of a good team that you look lucky. This team, to me, looks lucky.

And I don't think the two are unrelated at all. But I always think of, you know, that Maldonado throw, which I would say is the greatest lucky moment in Blue Jay history. and the deal was in game six in the ninth inning they're leading two to one and there's a ground ball right at Afraid of Greffin that takes a bad hop goes in the left field so it could have been double play so now it's a couple of guys on and I think it was Otis Nixon hits a bullet in the left field and Maldonado comes up throwing all right Now, you know, the situation.

One guy scored to make it 4-3, and here's the deal. Before the World Series, before the National League Championship Series that year, the commissioner's office was looking at the stadiums, and it decided that the wire screen in the backstop, the backstop in Fulton County Stadium was not wide enough. So they ordered three feet, of extra wire put onto each side all the way up to the top three feet now we go to the ninth inning it's now four three balderado's throw is like a horrible throw at airmills absolutely everything

hits the three feet of added wire he was thrown at the jane fonda yeah exactly right that's what i think you wrote that or somebody wrote that he was it must have been thrown at the jane and the ball hit the thing and bounced right back and the runner had to hold a third the tying run or would have had to hold no I remember watching this

and shocked that they didn't score on that play yeah and pardon me the tying run had scored yeah and this was the winning run that would have scored

it would have been over yeah and the tying run and that was the first blown save by a blue j reliever since June Hanky blew the save quote unquote because of this bad hop grounders and then this ridiculous throw allowed the tying run to score,

and the winning run, if that screen hadn't been there, would have been waved in, and it's now 3-3, and we're going to game 7. So I will say that's the biggest piece of luck you ever saw because they added these three feet of screen. That's wild. And the ball, and not only hit the screen, but it bounced right back almost to where it was the catcher-hatter

or the pitcher back and up, or whoever was, so that the winning run could not score from third. And then they went into extra ratings and you know what happened. Jimmy Williams was,

was, had set the infield and Jimmy didn't like to guard the line. And that's where, Cito did. Yeah. And that's where Winfield pulled Charlie Lee Brand

right down the line for the double to make it, and that made it four to. I think it was two one before and then they got the tying run the bottom. That was it.

The tying run the bottom of the night. The winning run would have scored without hitting this fence. So that was the kind of thing that, I mean, 30 ideas later, you kind of say, whoa, talk about a big moment. Well, the other thing I'd say about this team, I think they do get along. Yeah. And there's, I mean, like last year there were the Buffalo Boys.

Well, the Buffalo Boys, I don't think you'd pay and go to see a ticket to any of them. You know, like, yeah, I want to see David Snyder. Right. but the thing is now bar guards improved you know now the guy in right field

he said in second you know the 10 years and minors and everything's good I mean they've they've improved and they I'm not saying 92 and 93 didn't get along

but they were more established I mean the thing people say well which is the best team of the If this team wins I said it might be 85 because they won 99 games But you had Hall of Famers on those two teams

You had Molitor, you had Morris, you had Winfield Alamar Almar And this one you got Max, I guess, period Yeah, at this point Maybe Guerrero Maybe it's early, yeah, it's early But and the other thing is of course

Everybody forgets 92 to 93 were two vastly different teams. Oh, yeah. You know, here came, here came, you know, the first time we were going to add Morris and Winfield and trade for David Cohn, and then, you know, Key left and, and Winfield left and Cone left. And so here came Molotaur, and here came Dave Stewart.

And Hanky left. And Hanky left. Yeah, so like there was huge turnovers. It was, I think, 40% of the at-bats and almost 40% of the innings, left between 92 and 93. Yeah. That's a good point perk. A lot of people think it's the same team.

Yeah, it was different teams. Oh, Ricky Anderson, too. Yeah, well, there's another Hall of Famer, yeah. Ricky didn't do a whole lot. No, because after he got his footburned. Yeah. By Tommy Craig. But he is dancing on second base when Mitch Williams is pitching to Joe Carter.

So he gets some props for that, absolutely. But here, by the way, on that note real quick, and I am sensitive to the fact that we got to get Bob Elliott to the dome because there's a big ball game tonight. I don't know if you guys are aware. But is there a Blue Jay, and I'm thinking now of Len Lumbers and Blake Bell and Stephen Brunt, because this is only earlier this year we made the case for Dave Steve being in the Hall of Fame.

But is there a Blue Jay who's not in Cooperstown, but absolutely belongs there in your opinion? I could, the way things have gone, I would say, Delgado could be, could well merit consideration from the, from the Veterans Committee. Delgado, to me, is the same player as McGriff. McGriff was 493. And I think Delgado was 475. Something like that.

Yeah. Something like, and the thing was, so this was his hip, right, in the joint. So what they normally do is they saw this down, so then it goes. So what the doctor did is he made a curvature in here. So it went like this. So Dogato made the comeback and everything, but he couldn't hit back-to-back days. So the agent wanted to sue, and Dogato said,

I'm not doing that. He said, I've had a good career. I'm done. So neither of you think Dave Steve belongs in Cooperstown? He was on, was it two years ago? Yeah. I think he might get another shot. I mean, they've changed the rules again.

Yeah. So, like, if Bonds and Clements, if they're on this year, and they get less than whatever it is, five votes or three votes, I forget. But they're off, so that will open it up for more people. Yeah. It's, yeah, that whole thing is, things have changed. And, of course, you now. now have the specter of Trump wants to order people into the Hall of Fame.

And the Hall of Fame seems ready to bend over and, you know, and do whatever they're told. So it'll be interesting to see what happens. Okay, I'm looking up the word encroachment here. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So speaking to Trump here, if this Blue Jays team wins the World Series, that'll be the third World Series in franchise history,

the first one in 32 years, but you already know that. But if they win, does this 2025 Toronto Blue Jays team visit the White House? What do you think? Well, it's a 51st state. I guess we would have to. I don't know. That's a good question. He would have, I don't know.

Are our elbows up or are they down? I don't know. Remember a month ago I was asking, this is the question I asked tons of friends. a bunch ago, as soon as they made the plows, I said, if these guys ever won the World Series, with Ed Rogers being a big mega guy, would they go? And overwhelmingly, people I know hang out with,

said they shouldn't, but they probably will. And it would depend whether or not they got an invitation. The Raptors in 19 did not get an invitation. Oh, they didn't? They did not get an invitation. But I can remember Danny Green had said, when the topic was first raised, Danny said, it's a hard no for us.

But they were never given the opportunity. I think the only ones who have turned down Trump were the Golden State Warriors of his first term, right? Kerr turned them down. Now, the J's in 92 did go to see George Bush, the elder. H-W. But they didn't get asked in 94.

Oh, they didn't? Or like in 90, after they won in 93, they didn't get last 94, if I remember right, because I know they didn't go then. So there as president, if they get asked, my guess is they go. And a lot of Canadians, because this is Canada's team, and he's proud to own Canada's team and all this. That's what I keep hearing 50 times a game. Except it's not Canada's team.

Well, I mean, it's Canada's team for advertising. But, I mean, my grandsons in New Brunswick, like, I don't know, what, six years ago or whatever, the Red Sox bought the World Series trophy to, I don't know, St. John or Halifax. And then you go London to Windsor, they're all Tiger fans. They're 60% Tiger fans. And in Seattle, there's, there's Maryland, or in B.C., there's Seattle fans. And twin fans in the middle. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, they have the advertising covered, though. Yeah. But all that was pre-51st state rhetoric. Like, I feel like that is, I feel like this 2025 Blue Jays team is Canada's team. And if mega guy, Ed Rogers, wants the team at the White House and they get the invitation, how do you two think that will be, like, PR-wise? How would that be received by Blue Jays fans in this country to see their team that we've all kind of,

fans have fallen in love with at the White House of smiling with Donald J. Trump? One of the responses I got, and I got it from the people that day we were at Scotty's, was somebody said, people would be so over-jured at their winning that they won't care. What happens to the team? The team will be revered forever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, if they win tonight or tomorrow, they're going to be people hold up pictures of the World Series trophy and say, tariff this. Yeah, no, 100%. You can see that coming.

And it was like that in 92 as well, when the kid flew the flag upside down. People were pissed. Oh, yeah. We were absolutely pissed that this district. That was some dumb 19-year-old Marine kid who didn't know anything who flew it upside down. And the apologies started. Remember the apologies? I remember telling him it was, I think it was Steve Greenberg.

The commissioner's guy was in the press box. And I'd been on the phone with the office. And I was hearing these reports of, People outraged and phoning and we're going to mobilize the troops. And everybody was, and I told him, I said, you've got a jackpot here. I said, the whole country's pissed off at this flag thing. And I remember he rolled his eyes back on his head and he went like that. Like he was gurgling.

And the next thing, and the apology started coming. Remember the apology? And then the Marine Corps apologized. And then the mayor apologized and the government apologized. And then the next day, George Bush apologized. But do you remember game three? here yeah they handled it so well i think it was howard's idea i don't know for sure but so here so they're all worried about the american flag being booed right yeah so they give the

mounties the american flag to walk in with and they give uh the buffalo marine corps or something the canadian flag and everybody was they didn't know what to do but outside they were selling flags upside oh yeah well at the world series remember the world series party that and that night, I think it was at the science center. Remember, between game two and three, you have your first, like the whole, your city has its World Series party for all the swells and guys like us.

Because we're swell. And I think it was at the science center, but you could see people had flagpins upside down and walking around, and everybody's kind of going, oh, that's going to happen tomorrow, you know, we're so sorry. And, like, it was, it wasn't the heat of this year. I mean, it was pretty hot, but it wasn't the heat that it's been here for six, eight, nine months.

Well, long this guy's been around. Well, remember that Four Nations Cup and hockey, what that meant to this country because of what Trump was saying. So I feel like, I feel like this time it feels personal. But you mentioned swell guys. You guys are swell. And I really appreciate that. I got to have you two together on what I think is a very special day for the city, for this country. And on our way out here, do you do?

air make a prediction? Do the Blue Jays win the third world series in franchise history? Start with you, Dave. Yeah, I mean, why not? I am not impressed with the Dodgers at all. I think, I mean, the guy who's pitching tonight was tremendous, but... Yamamoto. Yeah, go do that twice. I think Yamamoto wins tonight, and then tomorrow somebody's going to be Joe Carter, Part 2. Wow. They don't have to get you guys back to rank the homers again. Oh, my goodness. Okay, it's strange this confluence of events

because from 6 to 8 p.m. tonight, I'm fully consumed. I got two kids who are going trick-or-treating. Like, they're all jacked up for that. So it's like 6-8 is all trick-or-treater-trick-or-treating time. And then at 8 p.m. And dad, just one more. Yeah.

No more. Bob Elliott, this won't be the last time you're in this basement. I love these chats, and I appreciate you doing this. And Dave Perkins, we talk before we press record. We're going to get you back, if I can, and before 2025 ends. We're going to get you back to talk about some other stuff. I hope so. But thank you guys for doing this.

I appreciate it. And have fun at the Dome tonight, Bob. Okay, Michael. Thank you very much. Thank you. And that brings us to the end of our, what are we at here, 1,789th show. Watch your head there, Dave, when you get up.

I know you're thinking of getting up there. Don't hit that head. Go to tronomelike.com for all your Toronto mic needs. Much love. Yeah. That's right. One at a time. One at a time.

Much love to all who made this possible. Again, that's Great Lakes Brewery. I've got beer for the guys here. Palma pasta. I've got lasagnas for the guys. Nick Iini's. I can't wait to have Nick Ieini's next week talking with Steve Paken for his show, Building Success.

And Jennifer McKelvey for Building Toronto Skyline. two great episodes of Nick Aini's podcast next week. Kindling, smoke them if you got them. Go to shopkindling.ca. Order some cannabis. And in under an hour, it'll be in your hands discreetly. You can follow it online. It's amazing.

Give it a shot. Shopkindling.comitling.ca. Recyclemyelectronics.ca. That's where you go. If you have old electronics, old cables, old devices, you don't throw that in the garbage. You go to recycle my electronics. dot CA. Put in your postal code and find out where to drop that off. Blue Sky Agency. Talk to Doug about Cylens' quiet and private pods. These are awesome. Doug is at, sorry, he's

Doug at Blue Sky Agency.ca. And shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. Hopefully the Dodgers will be put to rest tonight. See you all Monday. Checks his calendar in real time. Dwayne Morgan is my special guest Monday. That should be great. And then I have Finger 11, so rainbow butt monkeys in the basement. Wednesday at 1 p.m. And then Ralph Ben Murgi drops by Rabbi Ralph. We're going to have a good chat about everything. Hopefully we'll be talking about this World Series win. Oh, by the way, I skip the weekends because I don't record on weekends, but Sunday morning, Sammy Cohn from the Watchman is scheduled to be in this basement. Go Jays go. Enjoy your night, Toronto. See you all Sunday.