Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Bob Elliott: Toronto Mike'd #207

Episode Date: December 18, 2016

Mike chats with legendary baseball writer Bob Elliott about his years covering the Expos and Blue Jays, why he was banned from Bob McCown's Prime Time Sports, and the future of baseball in Canada.

Welcome to episode 207 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a local independent brewery producing fresh craft beer. And Chef's Plate, delivering delicious and locally sourced farm fresh ingredients in refrigerated kits directly to your door. Fresh ingredients and refrigerated kits directly to your door. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me this week is former ink-stained wretch, Bob Elliott. I'm still stained. Thanks for having me, Michael. It's a pleasure to have you. You're my very first guest who's in Cooperstown. You're in the Hall of Fame. Well, to clear things up, I'm not really in the Hall of Fame.

I'm in some Hall of Fames, but not in Cooperstown. I'm in, I was honored at Cooperstown, and not to diminish the award by any means, but, you know, the Hall of Fame is for, like, Robbie Alomar and Paul Molitor and Pat Gillick and those guys and Johnny Bench. I was just, they have a writer's thing where they honor, like, Tom Cheek and that, but I'm not technically considered in the Hall of Fame.

By my accounts, I think it counts. I think it counts. And besides, I have to be able to tell my family this holiday season that a member of Cooperstown was in my basement. Or you could say the Kingston Hall of Fame. Yeah, well, that's actually pretty cool to say that. But I got to tell a quick story off the top, my friend, and then we're going to dive in here. It's a very cold day, so I'm hoping this episode warms everybody up because it's chilly out there.

This is no laughing matter. But here's my really quick story, and then I'll shut up so we can hear from Bob Elliott. But back in 1993, we're going way back now, I was a diehard Jays fan. I was a Jays fan for at least a decade at that point. I listened to every game called by Tom Sheik and Jerry Howarth on 1430 and then 590. That's the kind of fan I was.

I didn't miss a game. And I had a book called The Ultimate Blue Jays Trivia Book. And I loved it because I just loved like those early 80s Jays, particularly teams, particularly like I just loved reading stories like Tony Fernandez and Alfredo Griffin and Damaso Garcia and George Bell, my favorite player of all time. So I had this book. We're going way back now. But this book, I kept on to it because I loved returning to it because, you know, nostalgia is such a potent drug, and I kept this book. So a couple of weeks ago, I'm off to Frankfurt on a business trip, and I only packed one book for the flight. This is completely coincidental.

I decided to pack the Ultimate Blue Jays Trivia book because I wanted to read about the greatest outfield in baseball, Lloyd Mosby, Jesse Barfield, and George Bell. So I've got my book with me, and I'm in a hotel room just outside of Frankfurt in this town called Bad Homburg. And I'm in my hotel room, and I get an email, and it's from a guy, I don't know this gentleman, but his name is John Matthew IV. It's a big name there.

That sounds like royalty or something. I didn't know that. Anyone with Roman numerals at the end of their name, I'm like, this is an important email. I got to read this thing. So John Matthew IV sends me this email and he says, I was talking to Bob Elliott and I think he mentioned Toronto Mic'd, this podcast, and somehow you agreed, I don't know, in a moment of weakness, you agreed to come and visit me and appear on Toronto Mic'd. Well, excuse me, I think maybe I was invited once before, and I really didn't know the concept, I didn't understand, and I was emailing John Matthew IV, the first three were at home, and he said, I said, I hope I didn't disturb you or something like that.

And he said, no, I'm just listening to Toronto Mike. So I said, oh, what is that? So he explained what it is and how he's a patron and on and on and on. And I said, oh, I said, have you got the man's email? I said, I think he asked me a few months ago to go on, and I didn't know what it was, and it was one of those days when I just woke up and there was 15 emails there, and I didn't get back to it. I apologize for that.

So I finally got back to it. Well, timing is everything. So, yeah, I mean, I've struck out before. I'm getting used to it. But I get this email that you're into it, and I'm really excited. Because who do you think, this is my trivia question for you Bob Elliot who do you think wrote the ultimate Blue Jays trivia book which by the way and this is a podcast and no one else will see this but you but here is the actual copy I've kept since 93 and who do you

think wrote that book well I didn't write the questions but I wrote the chapters in between yeah isn't that crazy coincidence I coincidence? I'm in Germany. This is the only book I had on my possession, and I didn't expect this email that Bob Elliott's coming on Toronto Mic. And I've got Bob Elliott's, one of the three books you wrote, right? Yes. I wrote George Bell in 1990, and then in 2004, The Northern Game about Canadian baseball.

Which you've kindly brought me a copy of, so I'm going to read that. I haven't given you the bill yet. If you're going to charge me for it, you're going to have to sign it before you leave. That's the least you can do. So I don't know, my mind was blowing that I was looking at this Bob Elliott book when I get this email from John Matthew IV

about you coming on. So this all worked out wonderfully the fourth about you coming on. So this all worked out like wonderfully. So thank you for coming. If anyone wants to join John Matthew the fourth in the, the patron club, you can help crowdfund this podcast by going to patrion.com slash Toronto Mike, or just head over to Toronto,

Mike.com and click one of the big orange buttons that says become a patron and give what you can. I would appreciate anything and everything. Bob, you got some beer in front of you. That's from Great Lakes Brewery. So you can take that home with you and enjoy Great Lakes beer this holiday season. Well, thank you very much.

I'll pass on to my son-in-law. He's a beer drinker. I'm not much of a beer drinker, but thank you very much. No, that works too. That works too. And one more thing before we dive in here. It's the perfect food if you're enjoying a cold Great Lakes beer, which you won't be. Your son-in-law will be. But if you want to eat healthy and not have to worry about planning the meals, there's a company called chef's plate and chef's plate delivers meal kits to your door it's like pre-portioned and locally sourced farm fresh ingredients and then these like easy to follow instruction uh sheets that tell you how to put it together even i did it so if you go to chefsplate.com and you use the promo code Toronto Mike, you get your first two plates for free.

I'm told that's at least $22 in savings. But Bob, if I send you a link to their menu and you pick your two favorite meals, they'll send you a couple of meals to put together complimentary on the house and free of charge. Thank you very much. Enjoy that. Great is baseball. The national tonic, the revival of hope, the restorer of confidence, the sporting news.

My first question right off the bat, Bob, is when did you fall in love with baseball? I would say in the middle of a hockey game, watching the playoffs. I used to watch with my father when I was 10 or 11. You remember Yvonne Cornoua? Of course. You remember him? So I cheered for the Bruins, and we'd watch during the Saturday nights. It used to come on half an hour into the game, and we'd always wonder what the score would be.

And then so I'm watching in the playoffs, and Cornuay had been out playing ball hockey or something, and I'm saying, how come Cornuay is not playing? And my father said, no, no, he's playing. He's just not doing anything. And I said, well, why not? And he said, well, they have a shadow on him. I said, what's that?

So I watched, and, you know, it didn't matter. The guy would not go near the puck. He would just stay on him all the time. And I said, I don't really think that's fair. And, you know, the older I got, you know, the basketball, I did cover high school basketball in Kingston, and, you know, the best I got, you know, the basketball, I did cover high school basketball in Kingston. And, you know, the best player would always have two guards on, two people guarding him. Or in football, the best linebacker would be double teamed or triple teamed or whatever.

But in baseball, it's just like you're pitching against me. And, you know, nobody's knocking you off balance or shoving my bat or lifting my bat if I'm the hitter. Not that I get ever hit, but it's just... So this was an opinion formed long before the PEDs, and I think it's the fairest game of all, and that's why I think it's the best game of all. And what was your team growing up? The Milwaukee Braves, yeah. The first team you cover

is the Montreal Expos, is that right? And you did that for the Ottawa Citizen in 1978? Ottawa Citizen, Bob Ferguson and myself, we split at 78, 79, 80, and then I did it 81 to 86. So how did you end up at the Citizen covering the Expos? Well, I started out in Kingston. I worked in grade 12, I guess, full-time the last four months of school, or three months maybe of school.

And they offered me the job. And I went home and told my mother that they offered me the job. And I told the guy, yes, soon as school was over. So this is March. And he says, no, you don't understand how this works. We were a crack four-man staff, and I was the fifth guy, the part-time guy. So he said, I'll give you two weeks.

But he said, you go home, tell your mother, tell your father. So my mother starts crying. She said, your father went to Queens. mother starts crying and she said your father went to queens your grandfather went to queens you have to go to queens so that was it i was no way i was going to work so anyways my father got home from work and i told him he was out gardening and he said well you don't study hard enough. You don't apply yourself. And I did leave Kingston Collegiate in does not apply himself comments. So he listened to it. And then he didn't say anything.

And then the next, I guess it was either after dinner or it was the next night, he came up and he said, you really want to do this? And I said, yeah. He said, well, I think you can do it on two conditions. And the first condition was you have to finish grade 12 and you have to pass and graduate. And I said, okay, I can do that. And the second condition is if you ever vote for the MVP,

you can't be like those Boston writers that put the screws to Ted Williams on the MVP vote. And this is before the Blue Jays. This is before the Expos. Right. So, I mean, the point of this story is father's knows best. I mean, years, years later, I remember I knocked. It was Albert Bell.

I knocked him down from second to fifth. And I was going over the ballot again for a final time and then i saw it and the words came back and i put him back in second it didn't matter anyways the final vote but i mean those words i hadn't thought of those words in 30 years and the words came back to me like and like you don't ever hold anything it's easy the rest of the sentence was it's what the player does between the lines. It's not how he treats anybody. And so, I mean, you know, there wasn't any, like I said,

there wasn't any baseball teams in those days here in Canada. And so I graduated and, oh, he said, just, sorry, he said, just leave it with me. So I have no idea what happened. And he said, don't say anything to your mother so about four days later my mother came to me and it was her idea that i do both so that's how it worked out yeah that's great that's great now i remember so i remember growing up i had the jays growing up and i remember uh in the in the paper the paper back then was so vital like that paper's how we got the standings and I remember in the paper, the paper back then was so vital. Like that paper's how we got the standings.

And I remember Toronto would always be bold, but on the National League side, they bold Montreal Expos. So I grew up thinking like, that's like my B team. Like that's like my, the other home team. And so I followed the Expos pretty closely.

And there's, do you mind if I just ask you some questions about some of the old Expos I remember? And maybe you can tell me what kind of guys they were. I'll go right ahead. Cool. First guy I've got to start with is the late, great Gary Carter.

Well, he was very... He used to do the post-game show with Duke Snyder, right? And we used to joke that... Because sometimes we could hear it in the clubhouse when we were waiting, and all Snyder would have to say was, well, kid, you had a great night. And he would say, all I got to say, Duker, is, and like five minutes later, Duke would click the thing. Thanks very much. Right.

No questions. He was wonderful to deal with i mean uh a lot of cliches but uh somebody asked me once uh when he went to the mets somebody said could you tell me about his faults i said yeah i said i got two i said remember he did the big was it pepsi no it was seven up he did the uh the national ad for it was him and his daughters and his wife and i said well once i saw him drinking a coke or a pepsi and i said once we were in new york and it was a sunday and we were staying at the sheraton on seventh ave and uh i thought it was a 10 o'clock bus and i was there and the bus was wrong and uh it was 10 30 and carter was there too too. So he missed the bus. He was half an hour early.

I didn't have any words to tell the guy about, you know? That's right. Yeah, I mean, he'd gone way too soon, man. I mean, I remember that Mets team that won it all in 86, right? And he was a key member of that team. But Kid Carter, that was sort of the definitive expo when I was growing up. But the other guy I got to got asked about is Tim Raines. And I got to preface this by saying there's a lot of like,

I guess this is the last year he's eligible for the, so he should be in the Hall of Fame, right? I agree, yeah. Somebody on Primetime Sports, Jonas Siegel, somebody, not Jonas, Kerry. Oh, Jonas, yeah. Do you want to get on my Jonas run? Made a compelling argument.

And then you wonder, like, why isn't The Rock in the Hall of Fame already? But tell me about Tim Raines. I don't know why he's in already, why he is not in already. The only thing I don't want to say, Jonah lobbies for him very hard, and he's doing a great job. And if Raines gets in, he should be thanking him in his speech. And I hope he does. But the thing, when I ask somebody, are you voting for Reigns,

and they say no, they'll say, well, he hung around too long. And that really doesn't make much sense to me because, Michael, you're supposed to evaluate a player's best 10 years. Does he fit? Is he not? And the only question I ask, I said, well, name me somebody after Ricky Henderson as a leadoff hitter who is better. And they don't really have an answer. I mean, he held up until about two or three years ago.

He had the highest success rate at stealing bases. Right. Because Ricky would go all the time. I mean, but Reigns would go when it was necessary. Right, right. Yeah, I just remember he was the kind of guy you wanted on your team, like a hustle guy. You're right.

He picked his spots for the base stealing and just a great leadoff guy. You're right. Other than Ricky Henderson, greatest leadoff guy of all time. He came up. They brought him up from, I think it was Denver. And he was against Houston. And so I remember we asked Dick Williams where he was going to hit him. And he said, I'm going to hit him third.

And I think he was playing second base at the start, and he faced Nolan Ryan, Mike Scott, and Bob Knepper. And I think he went one for 14 with about nine strikeouts. And we didn't know if we'd see him again. You know, we thought they'd ruined him. And hitting him third was a mistake. Right. So anyways, the next spring uh they

opened in pittsburgh he got on base stole on the first pitch the ball hit him in the back it went kicked that way into right field he scored it was just and we all just looked at this guy's here to stay and he was you know cool what about the hawk andre andre dawson? Yeah, Dawson did everything right, you know, always threw to the right base. I remember the one spring, I guess it was 84, they had Pete Rose, they had Warren Cromartie and Fran Conum. So the question was, who's going to play first base? So Bill Verdon's the manager, and he finally decides, he finally decides, okay, I'm going to stick Pete Rose in left field

for opening day. This is about 10 days to go or a week to go in spring training. So we're in there, why, and he's explaining it all and his rationale and everything, and everybody gets up to leave. There's about 10 or 15 guys, and he says, oh, by the way, gentlemen, I'm moving Andre from center field to right to be easier on his knees. So we were there another 45 minutes

because that was a bigger story than who was playing first because Dawson was the franchise. And so that was the theme. Oh, by the way, gentlemen, your car's on fire. Buried the lead. Yeah. Just yesterday, so I'm watching the Hockey Night in Canada oh, by the way, gentlemen, your car's on fire. Buried the lead. Yeah. Just yesterday, so I'm watching the Hockey Night in Canada,

and Mike Myers tells a story about collecting hockey stickers from Esso gas stations. So he tells this really nice story off the top of Hockey Night in Canada yesterday. And then my brain remembers I used to collect OPG stickers, Blue Jay, not Blue Jay, baseball stickers. So I would buy the album and try to collect these stickers. And I went into my vault, I call it, where I kept these albums, and I was tweeting some pictures.

And on the back of my, I think it was my 85 album or whatever, but there's a big Congratulations Pete. And it's Pete Rose, and it's basically every single Opeche card of his career, and congratulating him, I guess, on the all-time hits record. And then I was thinking, you're coming in, so should Pete Rose be in the Hall of Fame? I know he's ineligible, but what's your thoughts on that?

I don't think so, no. Here's the thing. I mean, Canseco cheated. Who else do you want to say cheated? Mark McGuire? Okay, McGuire cheated, but it was to win, correct? Correct. But Rose was managing.

He bet on the Reds on a Monday night, on a Tuesday night, on a Wednesday night, and then on a Thursday night, he didn't bet on them. Right. So I'm not a gambler, but the gamblers tell me that that's like when you don't bet for them, that's like betting against them. So he would empty the bullpen on Wednesday night, and he didn't hang around with a real good bunch of people. So word would quickly spread.

So say you brought the wife and the three kids in, you drove an hour in from Kentucky or wherever, you bought the program, you parked, and you bought the tickets on the Thursday night. Chances are you're not going to see, you didn't have as good a chance to see a win as, say, somebody who went Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. You know, and I think that's, and it's there.

It's written on every clubhouse wall that don't, you know, you're not allowed to bat, you know. And he just, you know, it's just, I guess it's a sickness, you know, the gambling is. So that's like the third rail, I guess it's a sickness, the gambling is. So that's like the third rail, I guess, that you cheated potentially against your team, essentially. Well, the fraud of the public, in some regards. Because you remember 1919.

Yeah, Black Sox game. They didn't want anything like that. That was why the firm, Judge Landis, put thex game. They didn't want anything like that. That was why the firm Judge Landis put the rules in. Right. And, you know, 1919, not that I remember, but I watched, you know, of course, I watched the documentary from Ken Burns and everything, and I've read a lot on the...

So Joe Jackson, though, had, like, stellar numbers that World Series, for what it's worth. But I guess, you know, it is the third rail, so you can't mess with that. Well, the thing about Joe Jackson was he, according to the things that I've read, he might be

a little bit different because he didn't, he wasn't, he couldn't read and they had them sign these things and, you know, kind of, it was kind of stinky what they did to the players, right? They said, well, they absolved them of the charges, and then they suspended them or something, like from the movie Eight Men Out.

And he didn't get any money either. Yeah, yeah. But Pete Rose, so even if Peteete rose you know comes clean and everything and apologizes is there any path back or is it um i uh i i don't know i that's that's another he's he's like i defended the guy and you know for years thought he belonged and uh and you know the first book he said he didn't bet the, he said he didn't bet. The second book said he didn't bet. The third book or whatever, Roger Kahn, he told Roger Kahn he didn't bet. And then finally he said he did bet.

And then so they had the meeting with Manfred. And he said, well, are you going hanging out in the betting parlors much in Vegas? And I think the line was something like yeah, but I don't bet much on baseball or something. It wasn't the ideal answer, you know. But he's set in his ways like a lot of us old people.

So in terms of PEDs though, like let's take two guys. Let's take Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds, right? So these are two guys that everybody can kind of agree that I mean, I think we can all agree if they hadn't juiced, they'd still be Hall of Fame worthier. So what are your thoughts on two guys like that? Are those two guys you would vote into the Hall of Fame because?

I voted for both those guys every year, yeah. I haven't voted for Sosa. I haven't voted for Palmeiro. I think, like, people will argue, well, you have to treat everybody the same. No, you don't. It's like treating every player the same. I mean, you have to treat – they're like snowflakes.

They're all different. So different degrees, I think. And I think there's a little bit of a change since Selig was elected that he oversaw that whole era. And, you know, I've seen on the Twitter machine there where people are thinking of changing their votes since after being anti-Clements and anti-Bonds with, you know, with Selig getting in there, they're going to vote. Whether they get enough this year, I doubt it.

When A-Rod is eligible, he goes in? That's a tough one. I was asked that last year, and I don't know. He's certainly had the positives, but the numbers are a lot higher. I don't know. That's going to take some big, a lot of studying, you know. The good thing about the Hall of Fame, it's not like you're driving home from the game and the guy went four for five or he went 0 for five and you have to vote that night.

There's a five year waiting period. So eventually I'll have an answer for you on that one. But as of right now I don't have an answer. What about Jeff Reardon? Going back to the Expos now. Yeah.

Not for the Hall of Fame. He I remember the day Blue Monday, when Steve Rogers gave up the home run, you know, it was a surprise

that they brought in Rogers and we went to him and he, he said, like, this is 1981, different times, right? So he's standing there

and he's lighting a cigarette in the clubhouse can you imagine that he said so we'd say uh were you were you fit to pitch were you okay and he'd just say ask the manager ask the manager ask the manager so we go back to the manager and the manager says uh um i went with my best pitcher, which was Steve Rogers, which is, I don't know, first time or second time in relief after 800 starts or whatever it was, something silly. So now, 82, we get to spring training in West Palm, and we're talking to him, and he says his back,

Reardon says his back was hurt. He couldn't pitch. Like, he should have just told us that, you know? Like, I mean, a lot of people ripped Fanning. Fanning was a wonderful man, and he had one of the greatest lines of all we were at saint mary's i don't know four or five years ago and i had to speak and he was next and so he got up and his opening line was uh i always enjoy following elliot and he said i think i speak for everybody here when i say we enjoy reading him a lot better than we enjoy listening to him.

I got to say, we're early still, but you sound great. Like you have a lot of character in the voice and you're right on that mic. And to me, it sounds fantastic. I could just listen to you talk baseball for hours and hours and hours. I think you're your own worst critic when it comes to broadcasting. Well, I can talk for a while, but I'm sure some people have nodded off. Oh, no.

No way. Now, what about... Okay, I once asked... Rick Hodge was here once from the old Roger, Rick, and Marilyn show, and I asked him who was his favorite interview of all time because he interviewed a lot of big stars and stuff, and he didn't hesitate and told me it was Bill Lee uh the spaceman so what was it what was it what was

bill lee like well he was a little bit different i remember in the strike of 81 i said uh so what are you going to do like and they were packing their bags they were leaving and nobody knew it was going to be 51 days but uh he said, well, to tell you the truth, he says, I'm going down east to fish for salmon. I said, oh, okay. So I walk about 10 feet, and here comes another guy from Le Journal, and he said, hey, Bill, what are you doing?

Where are you going? And he says, actually, I'm going up to the Arctic Circle to fish for Arctic char. So then I talked to somebody else, and now about 10 minutes later, I'm going by the door, and I hear a guy say to him, a guy from the Gazette say to him, so Bill, what are you going to do with all your spare time? You're not used to having time off in the summer.

And he says, well, you're not going to believe what I'm going to do. I'm going up on the Columbia River in the state of Washington or wherever and fish for whatever. So, I mean, you just shake your head. So, I mean, you must have, like, you could write a whole book on probably Bill Lee's stories, probably. This is just like one of these legendary characters, just way out there. He's just one of those eccentric kind of...

Yeah, he was still, he he ran for where did he run for governor New Hampshire or Vermont I think just just in this recent election but yeah I was in I was on the material radio station and in June I guess and about 10 minutes into it, Bill Lee comes on. So anyways, I hadn't talked to him in years, but he just phoned in. And I don't know if he was in Montreal or whatever, but I said to the producer after, I said, what are you wasting your time? I mean, you got that guy on. I said, you don't need me.

And he said, people are more interested in him. And he said he said oh no he phones in every uh every week wow there you go there you go will major league baseball ever return to Montreal I think so but I don't think it'll be in my lifetime I think uh the problem is they need a they need a white knight they They need, I mean, there was a big story after the, it would have been November after their first year, the Blue Jays going down there, and they had the 95,000 for the two games.

It was a big story, and I think it was La Presse or La Devoir about Bronf and Sons, Stephen, Stephen, the people from Bell, and some guy, I had to look him up. He owns casinos. He won in Detroit and won in Atlantic City and I think won in Montreal. And they were a part of a new group, but I haven't heard word one since then.

And like Cromartie's group, they have about as much money as you and I put together, so they really don't uh that's not that's not the future there has to be it's their hearts in the right place but uh they uh I mean that if to get set things straight there's I know there's a lot of Montrealers here uh and uh the the expo fan did not give up on the Expos the ownership the ownership gave up you know Charles Brompton who had more money than any owner sold it to brochure but she didn't have the money so he lent him the money brochure tried to move it to Northern Virginia that didn't work out so Major League Baseball

bought it and I was there the day they announced they were moving to Washington. And I think the guy's name was Tavares. He had a hockey background. He said, what a wonderful day for the franchise. What a wonderful day for the franchise. And I look back, and there's Monique Giroux, who worked in public relations.

Fernand Labette, who worked in the press box, Mac Jones used to stay at his house. All these people, there's about 15 of them way at the back, and they're crying. They're not moving to Washington. It is not a wonderful day. And I saw Michael Farber after the press conference. I said, Michael, I don't know how I'm going to handle this last out.

In the ninth inning, I got very upset. And then I think I was back in my hotel room around 3.30, and they showed when CNN switches over to the world, whatever that is. And so it was on there, and they had the pictures from, like up in the press box box you can't see the fans you see the backs of their head right so they had the cameras like rains was talking cloder moan was talking and they shot up into the seats and people were just crying and i mean it was very very emotional like it's you know it's like it like the the the everything that the cubs fans

that you feel you know the success and the happiness and, you know, like, I'm so happy my grandpa who was a Cubs fan. All those shows. I mean, that's what the Expos fans felt that, except it was sorrow. I can't imagine. Like, I'm lucky enough that every franchise I've really cared about has stayed. Like, I've never lost a franchise. And I often think, like, the Grizzly fans in Vancouver, the Expos fans in Montreal, like, that's horrible.

Like, I can't imagine, you know. Well, I was a Braves fan, and we went down to see them at Jerry Park and that. I mean, it would be like going to Christy Pitts with a few extra seats, but those first couple of years. But it was, I remember my father, people knocked the sky down, but we'd drive down there three Saturdays in a row.

We'd get there, and it'd rain, and we'd go for a bite to eat and drive back home. So Blue Jays say 7.05 first pitch is 7.05 first pitch. It doesn't matter if you're coming from Kitchener or wherever. I figured it out. We bash the dome until we have a good team and then we're okay with it. So it turns out it all depends on the quality of the ball team. I don't mind it.

I got a place. You mentioned Braves. So I'm just going to play a real quick clip here. He's sitting on 7-14. Here's the pitch by Downing. Swinging. There's a drive into left center field. That ball is going to be...

Out of here! It's gone! It's 7-15! There's a new home run champion of all time, and it's Henry Aaron. The fireworks are going. Henry Aaron is coming around third. His teammates are at home plate.

And listen to this crowd. Took this from the Ken Burns baseball, by the way. Just figured if Bob Elliott's coming in, I'm going to go big or I'm going to go home. But I've got to play a Tom Cheek clip here. By the way, Tom Cheek, man, I miss that guy every single spring. Yeah. Just a voice of my youth, like the soundtrack of my summers.

And we're going to take you from the Expos to the Jays. So to transition us, and this is just before you come to Toronto to work for the Sun, but in 1985, I witnessed a moment which to me was like winning a World Series. I couldn't believe it really happened. And this was the play as called

by Tom Cheek. He works to Hasse. There's a swing and a fly ball left field. Bell is there. He's got it. The Blue Jays have done it. They have won the East. They have won the East. George Bell catching the ball and dropping to his knees. A mob scene out around second base as Doyle Alexander is mobbed by his teammates. Here come the outfielders in. They will be met by their mates and this mammoth crowd that has come screaming down out of the seats now

somebody takes george bell's cap he wants it back he takes it back and the blue jays and doyle alexander are going to be ushered off the field by their adoring public alexander with his cap off being carried by the throng down there on the field. Darn right George Bell wants his cap back. All right, so that's 85. So you were at the Ottawa Citizen. I was there that day, though. I was there, let me think, would have been the Expos went into Shea, and they were about three games out or something like that.

And the first game they were pitching, they were facing Dwight Gooden, and Gooden pitched a three-hitter and started out 12 or something like that. And the first game they were pitching, they were facing Dwight Gooden, and Gooden pitched a three-hitter and started at 12 or something. He did that, yeah. So I wake up the next morning, a phone call at 9.30, which is not very nice when you're on the road. And it's the boss, the sports editor in Ottawa,

and he says, you're in there you're in the wrong town and i'm thinking where am i and uh and uh so he says get down to baltimore and i said what do you mean and he says uh he said look toronto's in first place by three games or two games he says we're going to cover toronto the rest of the way and uh and i said really because because our whole our readership in ottawa was uh 85 percent uh expo fan right and uh so i went and i remember it was a four game series and henke arrived and i think he had uh either had two wins or two saves he and Baltimore, as I found out, they were real nail biters. It was like, I think he got the save, but there was two guys left on base or something.

It was a very dramatic four-game series. I think they won three out of four, if I remember. So then I just went the rest of the way. I stayed at the Sheraton. Like when I did the Expos, we didn't have a Sunday paper, so I would drive back to Toronto, to Ottawa, excuse me. But here, I think I flew back to Ottawa once, and it was you fly back Saturday,

and you have to get up so early Sunday. I just stayed here and then went on the road, yeah. and it was, you fly back Saturday and you have to get up so early Sunday. I just stayed here and then went on the road, yeah. Yeah, I remember, I think I remember the night before that play we just heard was that we were up right by one in the ninth. Yeah, Weingart hit a home run and then it was raining and that was Henke and then I think, and then Mosby dropped the ball in center field.

And I think Bobby Meacham was involved in that game, the new Buffalo manager. He was pinch running or something. Because that game, which I was hoping we'd clinch that night, I remember that was a radio game for me, so I can still see young Mike listening to Tom and Jerry on the CJCL. And then the game where we heard the clip there where we clinched, I watched that one on TV.

Right. In fact, in Midland, Ontario, of all places, I watched it on TV. Yeah, you should explain that, Michael. People think, you know, like if you're under, what, 30? People think every game was on TV. It wasn't that way. No, no, no. And I remember there was a time where I had,

TSN would have some Jays games, but we didn't have TSN. So there was that period. And then at some point, my memory, it was like 88 or something. So it was after this. But at some point, TSN was changed to a different tier or something happened with the cable in this country where suddenly much music and TSN were stations I could get on my, and I remember 29 was much music and TSN were stations I could get on my, like,

and I remember 29 was much music and TSN was 30. Yeah. They just showed up one day and I don't know, it's like magic, okay? This is like 88. But before that, you're right,

like, we had our CFTO and I remember the Tony Kubik and Don Chevrier. Yeah, yeah. And I still remember, you know, how about those Blue Jays? Fergie Oliver on the sidelines, like, this is what we had, yeah.

I remember one day we were down at, sitting down the line after early hitting at Fenway with Bobby Cox in the 85. And Cox, he hated doing interviews. He just, he didn't want to talk about himself or anything. And I think there was, this was the third leg of a three-city road trip, and there was two nights left.

And he says, Fergie, come here. I want you to interview me. So Fergie comes running over, right? And he gives him the $50, because that's the way Labatt worked in those days. They don't anymore, or the sports net doesn't. And so when he got done with the interview, we said, what's that about? You hate doing interviews. And he says, I'm out of beer money. Bobby Cox. and so when he got done with the interview, we said, what's that about? You hate doing interviews,

and he says, I'm out of beer money. Bobby Cox, I just remember after 85, he left for Atlanta, and man, the success that guy had, that must be the greatest stretch of success a manager's ever had in baseball, right? Probably, maybe? In terms of playoff success, not World Series. Yeah, he went as a general manager,

and the shocking part was the blue jays so the blue jays get eliminated so some of them fly to st louis for the world series and they're on the they have the these shuttle buses that take the people downtown and somebody looks across at the blue jay guy i forget who it was, and says, too bad about your manager. What do you mean? What about our manager? He says, well, I heard he went to Atlanta. So anyway, as soon as they get to the hotel, they found out that, you know, it's before cell phones, that Cox had indeed gone as a general manager.

He went about five days after Tanner was hired as a manager. And then they had a press conference in St. Louis, and it was the weirdest press conference ever because the questions for the manager were answered by Cox, and the questions for the general manager were answered by Tanner. Right. Yeah, man. So we're here in 85, talking 85,

but you're still working for The Citizen in 85. So how do you end up working for the Toronto Sun in 86 and covering the Jays full-time? Well, I was interviewed in 86 at the Harvard Bookstore in Boston by Wayne Parrish. And he said, well, I'll get back to you. And it was before game, I think game four, I think. And so my friend, Ken Fidlin, who's at the Sun, and I think his last week is, next week, I think,

he's taking a buyout. But we had worked together in Kingston, and then we worked together in Ottawa, both at the Journal and the Citizen, and so he had suggested me. So he goes to Europe, and he comes back, and he phones me a week before the winter meetings, and he said, have you heard from Parrish?

And I said, no, I haven't heard anything. So he said, are you going to the winter meetings? I said, no, I haven't heard anything. So he said, are you going to the winter meetings? I said, yeah, I'm going. So anyways, we went to Hollywood, Florida, and I don't know, the second or third night I was there, he phoned, Parrish phoned, and he was phoning from Portland, Oregon, where he was attending a sports editor's conference,

and he offered me the job, and he said, how much do you make? And I said, I don't know. So I had to phone a citizen the next day and find out and the lady who was on the payroll office was Gary Galley's mother. He played hockey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I said, how much do I make a week anyways?

Because we went to that automatic deposit. Yeah, I was going to say, you really had no idea. No, I did not. And so she said, where's the offer? Who gave you the offer? And I said, oh, no, there's no offer. So anyways, I think my first day was January 13th. And I think, I don't know, whatever, about a month later, the T4 slips arrive and I gave them the wrong number. Oh, did you give them higher?

No, I came for a cut. Oh, my goodness. I messed up. Oh, that's a serious mess up, man. So you're at the Toronto Sun in 86, and I mean, we're going to, you know, I could ask you about every J since 86, but you'd be here all weekend,

and you'd probably have to see your family at some point or whatever. So I kind of pruned this list down. So I'm just going to, some memorable guys since, from 86 to present, really kind of a succinct little list here. But I'm starting with the guy you wrote the book about, who was my favorite Blue Jay of all time, George Bell. What, tell me about, uh, cantankerous, kiss my purple ass, George Bell. Yeah, kiss my purple butt. That was the night, let me think. It was Bob Melvin.

He was hitting ninth. And he hit a ball into the left field corner off Jimmy Key. And George caught it just as he hit the wall. And the ball popped out. And so everybody booed. Now, what is the number nine hitter doing hitting the ball off the wall against Jimmy Key? That's another question. what is the number nine hitter doing hitting the ball off the wall against Jimmy Key?

That's another question. But so I went up to him, and I said, how's it going, or what did you think of the fans? And he said, I'm not talking. So I walked away, and here was Alan Ryan walking towards me, and he said, how was he? And I said, good luck. And anyways, he said to Alan Ryan of the Star,

those fans can kiss my purple butt. But it wasn't really butt, right? This is the A word, but it was... Oh, it probably was. Yeah, no one in Georgia probably was. But so I introduced myself to him in 87 and he said, I only talked to Garf Wolseley from the Star and Ken Fidgen from the Sun. He said, I'm not talking to you.

So I said, all right. But I don't know if he fully comprehended how it worked when we were on the road. He would talk to everybody. So I think he thought we got on the road, and then we came home, and then we wrote a story for the seven-game road trip or something. And then he wouldn't talk back home, but he was fine on the road.

But one night, he was penciled in to be the DH. This is before all the stuff in the spring of 88. But he was penciled in to be the DH this is before all the stuff in the spring of 88 but he was penciled in to be the DH and Mosby was jabbing at him during BP and so George hadn't looked at the lineup and he said there's no way I'm the DH and he said yes you are so I guess he smashed the bat and he threw it up 40 rows in the seats. Dave Perkins went up and found out the seat and the number and everything and wrote it. It was a cute story. So I was off that night.

So the next night I wrote that. So anyways, George goes in, has a meeting with Jimmy Williams. And they come out of the meeting. George is back and left. And Juan Benicas is a DH. And Rick Leach is of the meeting. George is back and left. And Juan Beniquez is the DH. And Rick Leach is on the bench. So I wrote that George is supposed to, he's being paid to hit home runs, drive in runs, catch the ball when he can.

And that Rick Leach's starts are as important to Rick Leach as George's are to him. So he's not speaking to me anymore, right? So we get to Baltimore, and I'm going to mix up the order, but I want to say it was Flanagan, Bodeker, and Scott McGregor, okay? Seventh inning or later, he either hits the game winning or game tying hit okay so he is the story

three nights in a row right so the first night he says he says I'm not talking with him here so so I left so because there was

Steve Milton was there from Hamilton Larry Wilson from the Globe and Alan Ryan from the Star so I went and did Flanagan or whatever I talked to Cito because Steve Milton was there from Hamilton and Larry Wilson from The Globe and Alan Ryan from The Star. So I went and did Flanagan or whatever. I talked to Cito, and then the next second night, same thing happened. So the third night, enough.

I'm not budging, right? So I'm not budging. So George says, hey, come on over here. So everybody moved like 15 feet away. So the clubhouse guy, Freddie, who I knew a little bit, he says, what's that all about? And so I told him the story. And he says, you know, he was on Nessun or whatever their cable station's called the first night. And he says, you see that kid over there? They gave him a $200 gift certificate to be on a jewelry store or something from downtown. He says, he came in and he gave the gift certificate to that kid over there.

I said, really? He said, yeah. And then last night he was on Orioles radio and he got a $150 gift certificate for a restaurant at the Tremont for a free dinner. He came in and he gave it to that kid over there. And he said, and tonight he did the other cable. They had two Orioles TV. He got a gift certificate from them, and it was $150 for sports equipment,

and he gave it to that boy over there. I said, really? He said, yeah. He said, why? I said, well, I don't know. I said, who are the two best tippers in the American League? And he says, the two Georges, George Brett and George Bell. So I wound up just for the, you know, there's 40 lockers or 50 lockers in the clubhouse,

and the guy just happened to be walking by, and he heard it. So I wound up with a good story. So then now we get to the All-Star game, and he's there. And he goes by me, and he's going into the i see him he's going to the visiting clubhouse but it's in oakland so i know he's going the wrong way right so i'm going to the american league clubhouse which is the oakland clubhouse and the door's locked i can't get in yet so i come around the corner i bump right into him and he says what are you doing here man and i said i came to see you he says really you came all this way to see me so after that we were pals oh

that's amazing yeah just a fluke thing so so we used to timmy kurchison from espn he used to work cover the orioles but uh he did have always played this game and he said who's the guy you ever had the worst relationship with who's the guy you ever had the worst relationship with? Who's the guy you ever had the best relationship with? And my answer to both questions is George. See, when you told me that story about giving the gift certificates to the kids or whatever,

I love hearing that stuff because you hear the stories about Kiss My Purple Butt and he's cantankerous and he won't DH and all that stuff. And of course he has three home runs on opening day. It's just so theatrical. I don't blame him all that stuff. And, of course, he has three home runs on opening day. It's just so theatrical. I don't blame him for not wanting to DH. I mean, I think the club handled that terribly.

And that was on Jimmy Williams? No, I think, well, here's what happened. Jimmy Williams met with him in New York when he did his arbitration hearing and he said, you know, know will you will you consider dhing and he said if i get a long-term contract he said well contract is not my idea it's not my uh realm of you know department so he left williams left so then he continued talking with gillick and beaston and he got a long-term contract but but it wasn't for what he wanted. It was like, if you can imagine, I think it was $6.8 million instead of $8.5 or something.

So he's not the happy camper. Yes, he got the thing, but not... So Jimmy Williams doesn't know any of this. I mean, they weren't published in USA Today until opening day or anything, so he proceeds to think that, you know, he got the long-term contract. It was a terrible misunderstanding.

And then, I mean, Jim O'Leary wrote about it, a columnist at our place. He wrote about the DH situation, nine straight days of spring training. He broke John Robertson's record of the star, which was eight consecutive days of writing the same subject, which was grass in the skydome. Wow.

So, yeah, I mean, I just remember he wasn't a very good left fielder. And it made sense. As a fan, it made sense because we wanted his bat in the lineup because he was a basher and drove in the runs. It was 134 RBIs, I think, in 87 or something like that. So, I mean, from that standpoint, it made sense. But he sure wasn't happy about it. Did you ever see those Alaska Airlines?

Did you ever see that logo they have on the plane? No. Well, they have a picture of an Eskimo, and he's wearing the hooded parka, right? Right. So when we used to fly the charters, I forget where it was, we were pulling out, backing up,

and Hanky yells out, hey, George, what's your picture doing on that plane? Oh! And I remember I went with Hanky over to see Fernandez when he got hit in the cheekbone. It was the scariest thing I've ever seen. He laid down in Arlington. He laid on the home plate for about nine minutes without moving.

So we went over on that. It was a Friday night. We went over Sunday morning, and his face was all wired, and there was an actual hole in his cheek. So Hanky, you know, from Taos, Missouri, he says, gee, Tony, you look like George. So Fernandez goes, Hanky, he's talking like this, Hank, without moving, his teeth are clenched,

he's wired shut, he says, don't make me laugh, it hurts. Oh, Terminator. Hey, tell me about Tom Henke since you brought him up here. Terminator, I still play the ballad of Tom Henke, which was on some old Blue Jays compilation back in 89. Terminator.

Mark Icahn was a closer, wasn't he? Tom Henke comes out of nowhere. No, I think it was Cottle, wasn't it? Oh, maybe that is the Cottle, yeah. Maybe it was Cottle from Oakland and that didn't work out, did it? Icorn was a set-up guy, yeah.

But he was a very decent human being. I remember at St. Mary's when he got inducted, John Sullivan, the bullpen coach, was there. And so they were driving that morning over to the thing. And he gave his speech, his introduction speech, Sullivan did for Henke.

And it was wonderful. And then he got right, and he was composed. And then he got right to the end and he said, you know, we were driving over here this morning. And my wife said to me, he said, John, what's Tom Henke really like? What's he like? And he said, well, he's kind of the man that you'd want your daughter to marry. And he broke down. And I don't know if you can give a guy a higher compliment than that.

Yeah, man. There's something about an aqua velvet, man. That's all I'm going to say about Tommy. You also mentioned Tony Fernandez. So Tony, Tony and I, you know, you're the trivia. I know you didn't write the trivia, but you're still the trivia guy. Like I remember Tony being here, obviously leaves in the big trade, comes back, leaves again, and comes back.

He had at least three different tours. Four times. Four. Yeah. All right, four. Because I think that beats the Wendell Clark. Wendell Clark had three. Did he really?

Of the leaves, yeah. He came back for a spell, like, in 2000 or whatever. But so tell me about Tony, because Tony, he didn't have power, but he hit, I remember, 200-plus hits from this guy. Yeah, I remember in 85, down the stretch, Gillick called him the MVP of that 1985 team, whereas I thought it was one of the outfielders or maybe Upshaw. But the thing which I'd never seen done, and I'd seen a few guys before,

is the way he would, remember the way he would remember the way he would slash slash the ball to or and he would also you know bunt and bunt the ball purposely over the third baseman's head and it would kick foul and he'd get a double like I'd never seen I'd never seen anybody do that with you know like maybe somebody accidentally but uh he he but he had excellent back control. And I remember that flip from deep in the hole in shortstop, that flipper. I called it the flipper. I never saw anybody do that little flip and just so accurate. Yeah, he didn't.

If you saw him, you wouldn't think it's a strong arm, but people talk about infielders having a clock in their head. You know, like, okay, the guy, I got five steps, three steps. I better hurry up or whatever. He had the best clock because, I mean, how many times did you see him throw anybody out easy? It was always like bang, bang, and the guy's out. Eckstein was the same.

Eckstein was a weak arm, I thought. Tony Fernandez just hit, man, but kept coming back, and we were always happy to have him back. Okay, you came in 86, right? I remember that was the year Jesse Barfield hit 40. That was the first time a Blue Jay hit 40. January of 87 is when I heard. Okay, so the year before he gave it.

But let's talk about that. We talked about George Bell, but let's just talk about Barfield and Mosby because that was our thing back there in the mid-80s was that outfield. We loved that outfield. Yeah, I remember that spring talking to Barfield. I said, well, if you hit 40, what's the ceiling and he says well i think

i can hit 50 and uh and then uh and then he says who knows after that maybe i can get to 60 and of course he never did and then he showed up he showed up the one day and he had uh did. And then he showed up the one day and he had, what do you call those things? Lug nuts? Okay. Yeah. On the tires. So they were gold, real gold, not gold plated. That's what he told us, right? So he brought the whole team out to see him in the parking lot. So I said, where are you living? Are you still living in Houston? He said, yeah. I said, let me ask you, where can you drive this car? I can't drive it anywhere. I said, where are you living? Are you still living in Houston? He said, yeah. I said, let me ask you, where can you drive this car? I can't drive it anywhere.

I said, well, why do you have it? That's funny. He's one of the few former Blue Jays who follows me on Twitter, by the way. I think Jesse follows everybody. Oh, yeah? Yeah. So Mosby, what about Shaker? Shaker's rap was a great single back in like 85

Lloyd Mosby put out a rap album song believe it or not I don't remember that I'll email you the mp3

no that's okay no he was I see him every year he comes up to that tournament 12 and he still got

like you've seen athletes walk like that guy walks like very athletic. I tell him, I said, you look like you're going to be hitting second today or third. He's got that bounce in his step. They'll play over the course of a day.

They'll play four or five games or sometimes six games a day. And him and Devon White, they're there the whole time and son what are you doing what were you thinking on that play you know like and the enthusiasm i mean the blue jays pay them but the uh it's uh the the blue jays i must say they're very good corporate citizens for what they do for that high school tournament it used to be year one it was the bc kids you know it cost them an arm and a leg to get here for flying and everything and then the year for that high school tournament. It used to be, year one it was, the BC kids, it cost them an arm and a leg to get here for flying and everything. And then year two through, I guess it was Alomar raising money,

now it costs, whether you're from North York or North Vancouver, it costs you the same. It's $300 or something. It's a wonderful, wonderful thing. And I can think back to 10 years where they would have a showcase indoors, and they would lock the doors. They wouldn't allow anybody in. They wouldn't allow any other scouts in.

Now they allow universities in to recruit, and they allow other teams to scout. So they're good corporate citizens. George Bell is a little cantankerous, but the other guy who had issues with the media, it seemed, was Dave Stieb. What was your experience like with Dave? He wasn't that bad to me, but he was rough. I remember he was rough on Neil McCarl a few times for the star.

I remember one time we were in New York, and he came back. He either had a back injury or he had an arm injury or something. So he came back, and he pitched in Cleveland, and he didn't do very well. So the first question is a softball, did you have any pain? Because you don't want to say, well, what was wrong? So anyways, that was the first question in Cleveland. Then he went on to explain. And usually with with Steve it was bloopers and bleeders and uh and so now we get to New York and he has the same thing so I say I go first and I said did you have any pain and he said

you asked me that five days ago or in Cleveland or somebody did and so john hayman who was working at newsday then he walked by kind of pushes to the front and he says hey if i ask you how old you were in the exact year uh months days and minutes and i ask you five days ago and i ask it right now would the answer be the same? So Steve just got all bug-eyed and headed to the showers. And about five of us shook Heyman's hand. I hear

similar stories from others. But he, I guess, I mean, first of all, A, he was the best, until Roy Halladay, he was without a doubt the best starting pitcher in Blue Jays history. I happen to think Roy passed him at some point in his career here, but for a long time, I'd have that debate on my site, torontomike.com, like Roy Halladay versus Dave Steele.

But he had that slider, and he dominated, and this was when there were some not very good Jays teams back in the early 80s, and he was still managing to get 17 wins or whatever. Good, great starting pitcher, but yeah, the legendary stories of how he treated members of the media and stuff. Except when he came back that second time as a reliever,

remember? Apparently he came back all friendly and different. Yeah, he was friendly for about five days or something and then he I think he threw batting practice and everybody told him, hey, you're good enough to make this team.

And then he came back as a reliever. Right. And then he went back to his old self. Oh, I did. Yeah, you know what? The story stopped. They just, oh, it's a kinder, gentler Dave's team. Yeah, it was kinder, gentler when he was just

in for a tryout. But the thing, I remember he had disciples. Like I remember Hank and one night we were in Atlanta, and Hank says, don't you think they should give Steve a start? And I said, well, I said, I don't know. I said, who are you going to bump? And I forget what the rotation was, but I said, do you want to give your spot up?

And he said, no. I said, anyways, we're going back and forth and and i you know when you're doing the beat you know okay okay it's pat hankin pitching tonight against tom glavin or whatever you know boom right but when i'm writing columns like i am i'm you're not really in tune to it right you know so it's not that important. So I'm standing there and I look up and there goes the bullpen catcher by once, by twice. I said, Patrick, are you pitching tonight? He said, yes. I said, I think because you're not supposed to talk to the starting pitcher.

He stopped me. Right. I said, I think we can have this conversation some other time. I think you should go and warm up. That's right. That's right. That's right. Don't talk on game day. What about the other great starting pitcher, the lefty Jimmy Key, man?

That guy seemed maybe even underrated, if that's possible, because he was sort of, no pun intended, low key, but so effective. No, you're right. He was low key. He, I remember going to see him. No, you're right. It was low-key. I remember going to see him. Here's how laid back, or I don't know if laid back is a proper word. We went to see him in the winter because he was on his second contract, okay?

Second three-year contract, and he bought a house. He hadn't felt secure enough until then to buy a house. So he was up in Tarpon Springs or someplace. But Parrish sent me down there about a month before spring training to talk to him about his decision-making and why. He finally felt like he could take the plunge. He'd been in the rotation like four years or something. And he'd probably already been an all-star probably by then. Yeah, he was great.

He was great. Fantastic. I remember that. Was it 92 in the World Series or whatever? He got two wins, I guess. I think Dwayne Ward got two. That's how I remember it. And it could be wrong.

You tell me. But Dwayne Ward got a couple of wins. But Jimmy Key got a couple of wins in that World Series in Atlanta. I would have to look that up. You'd have to look that one up. But the big thing about Jimmy Key in Atlanta was when Cito came to the mound and he says, what do you think about Otis Nixon? He says, this guy gives me trouble.

Like 98% of the pitchers are going to say, I got him, Skip. I got him. No problem. No problem. I got him. And he said, this guy always gives me trouble. And they brought in Timlin with zero saves.

And I went to the washroom, and Skip Carey says, I wouldn't be surprised to see Otis drop one down there. And I'm thinking, you've got to be nuts. Nobody's going to bunt with a World Series on the line. And he bunted. He sure did, yeah. And what I always remember about that is Joe Carter's on first because it's even that.

So Joe Carter jumping up and down, right? Imagine John Olerud catches that. He probably just pumps his fist a couple of times and smiles, right? You don't get that enthusiasm you get out of Joe Carter. John, yeah, Carter ends the World Series jumping both years. Right, yeah, yeah. But I remember one, I think it was Olerud's first

or second year. We're in Milwaukee, and the Toronto score is like 10 in the first. Jaime Navarro is about six walks, about four errors. So I go in after the game. You're always looking for something different. So I said, John, what's that game remind you of? So John, of course, came right from Washington State to nothing in the minors, right?

So he says, it kind of reminds me of the last time we played Gonzaga, you know, Gonzaga University, where Bing Crosby went. So the next day he comes up to me, he says, hey, Bob, you didn't write that, did you, about Gonzaga? I said, yeah, I did. It was a great line. I said, they were awful. And he says, oh, Bob, the Milwaukee Brewers won't like me anymore.

I said, John. That's great. You know, yeah, you seem like just the nicest guy, right? This is the nicest guy. This is John Oliver and Johnny O. Sweet swing and a nice guy. That's great. So here, let's go to Roberto Alomar.

So here is a true Toronto Blue Jay Hall of Famer. Five great years in Toronto. And a guy, I actually met him once. I have a picture with Roberto Alomar, greatest Blue Jay, as a Blue Jay, greatest player in Blue Jay history, I would say. Yes, I'd agree with that. I remember the night of the Day of the Trade,

I saw Buck Rogers, my all-time favorite manager, to cover, and I said, who wins the deal? He says, well, he says, it's the team with the, it's like always, the team with the best player in the deal. I said, well, I said, I don't know, Buck. I said, who's that? I said I don't know Buck I said who's that you know I said uh I said uh I'd seen McGriff or excuse me I'd seen Carter but I hadn't really seen Alomar so I don't know who he's gonna pick and he says well it's it's Alomar and I said you mean right now and and Buck was like this he said right now five years from now ten years from now 10 years after they're all retired, he's the best player. I said, okay.

He was right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, all the tools, too, like the speed and the best second base defense and just knew when to steal a base. He had power when he needed it, like just hit for average. Yeah.

I remember the Yankees came in here. The Yankees were bad, but they came in here for a four-game series once. And somebody hit a double. I think it was Kevin Moss hit a double to right center. And so there's a guy in first base. So Robbie goes out and he takes the throw. And now 98% of the second basemen are going to throw the ball to the first baseman or throw it all the way to the plate whatever he comes up and he throws it to third base

out well next night same thing right so nothing happens on the saturday so on the sunday uh same play but the third base coach has got the guy held up about shortstop, right? So the ball kicks off Alomar's shins and goes over there about 10 feet. He should have scored on it, right? So after the game stumped Merrill, he says, that little piece of crap, he said, he got us Thursday, he got us Friday, he got us today. Man, we were so lucky.

Five great years and two World Series. Yeah, he actually had better years in Cleveland, but he chose, he wanted, he wanted, I know they don't have any say anymore, but he wanted Toronto on his cap. Yeah, finally, because, you know, we don't count Phil Necro, right? I'm trying to think of like other former players.

No, Phil Necro, 0-2. Winfield, Winfield was just here the one year, but he got the... I think the Padres made him a vice president or something that year. And just like Boggs, Boggs was hired. That's when they changed it. That's when they took it away. That's when they took it away. Yeah, no, that's great.

And what about Joe Carter who came over in that trade with San Diego? The aforementioned Joe Carter. Yes. Carter, I remember the day he got the day of the trade. The Players Association meetings were in Orlando. We were in Chicago at the winter meetings. So I phoned and I got a hold of him and I said

how did you find out, who phoned you and he says well I found out from, we'd play golf and he told me the other three or four players the other three players in the foursome so he said we pull into the caddy shack and the guy

goes, the caddy master says, hey, did you guys hear about the big trade? Did you hear about the big trade? And they all said, no, we've been on the course. What happened? And he says, well, it was Alomar, and it was McGriff, and it was Fernandez, and it was, and as the guy's telling the story, he's carrying the bags off the back of the thing, right?

And he says, and it was, it was you. Oh, that's great. Man, you know, it was wins above replacement stat that's become all the, you know,

so when I was growing up, like we didn't talk, this didn't exist. You know, all we knew is that we got 30 homers and 100 RBIs out of Joe Carter. You could bank on it. This was

just the dependability. And then as time went on and this war stat became more popular, they'd be like, you know, his wins above replacement was extremely low or whatever. So according to wins above replacement, Joe Carter was like an average outfielder. But in my

mind, at least for getting your 30 homers and 100 RBIs, he was top-notch. He was very dependable, and I forget what the streak was. I'm kind of baseball.reference dependent right now, but the one I remember

who was eight years in a row or nine years in a row, and then on the final day he was at 98 when he was with the Indians and he hit a home run and somebody leapt over the fence the three-runner what should have been through at Homer and somebody left over it leapt over the fence and brought it back so he yeah he didn't I remember guys talking before he went on the ballot and it was guys compared him to Tony Perez,

and then I think he got, I don't know, 3% of the ballot, or less than 5% anyways. He was only on the one year. Right, right. Let's pause here and listen to Tom Cheek in probably what I will say is Tom Cheek's most memorable call. Joe has had his moments. trying to lay off that ball low to the outside part of the plate and he just went after one two balls and two

strikes on it here's the pitch on the way a swing and a belt Blue Jays win it! The Blue Jays are World Series champions as Joe Carter hits a three-rub home run in the 9th inning and the Blue Jays are World Series champions as Joe Carter hits a three-run home run in the ninth inning. And the Blue Jays have repeated as World Series champions. Touch them all, Joe. You'll never hit a bigger home run in your life. That's glorious, man. That's glorious. Yeah, Thomas was a wonderful man.

A couple of things that go through my mind when I hear that. Etobicoke's own, the way they worked the innings there, I think Jerry Howarth gave him the inning to call or something. That was in 92. Was that in Atlanta? 92, yeah, 92. And they flipped off. But the other thing I remember is, so we were, that's Toronto Sun,

we were the killers of overkill. So I think we probably had 13 people there that night. So my assignment was to do the MVP. So he hits the home run. So I'm watching Molitor because that's who I think it's going to be, but they haven't announced it yet. So it was like he hits the home run. Everybody hugs Carter.

And then it was just like one guy. It was like the bride and the groom at the reception line, okay, you speak to the bride, you go to the groom, you speak, you found Carter, you hugged Carter, and then everybody went looking for, for a monitor, it didn't matter, it didn't matter if it was Alfredo Griffin, it didn't matter, uh, it didn't matter if it was a, a white guy, it didn't matter who it was, they all went looking to Mahler, and then whatever they're saying to him, I don't know, but suddenly he's crying. So I go, I can't move. I mean, it's just that's how riveting a moment it was. And I was finally, I walked downstairs with Steve Buffery,

who always would argue with me that hockey's better than baseball. And I'd say, well, can you do that in hockey? He said, well, yeah, in overtime. I said, no, no, you're tied in overtime. I said, he hits a double play there. I said, we're all coming back here tomorrow night. That's right. I said, you know, they're losing.

There's no leapfrogging. No. So, yeah, I was going to ask you, but you just answered it, but what it was like at the Dome that night. Because, I mean, at this point, I know that the Dome could hold like 50,000 people, but I think there's about 500,000 Torontonians who claim they were there that night. I don't make the claim. I know where I was.

I was watching on my living room TV. But that moment, that's ecstasy, like for a lifelong J-spin, even though we won the year before. But that walk-off, and we didn't call them walk-offs back then. This term walk-off is another term. We never used it in 93. But this walk-off style to secure a World Series, there's nothing like that. You said it.

There's nothing like that. No. They were the only two. That was the only one where the team was behind. The only other one that ended on a home run was Mazerowski in 1960. I was in Mrs. Lake's class at Rideau School, and I had the transistor up the thing here,

and I went, yes, because I didn't like the Yankees. And I wound up with a detention. Oh, it's worth it, man. That one's well worth it. Let's do a few modern guys, post-World Series guys real quick, and then I got some more questions. That one's well worth it. Let's do a few more, a few modern guys, post-World Series guys real quick, and then I got some more questions. I hope you don't mind.

You don't have anywhere you have to be right now. Good, awesome. I'm going to keep you all night. So, Carlos Delgado. What was it like covering Carlos Delgado? Carlos Delgado, he would be one of the most intelligent guys that I think I'd ever, whether either the Expos or the Blue Jays that I'd ever covered.

I remember one time, see, the way it would work for us if we were on the road, so say they would go, this particular trip we went to Boston, then we were going to Cleveland, but there was an off day. This particular trip, we went to Boston, then we were going to Cleveland, but there was an off day. So you would have to get your information on the last day that they played in Boston because they're all going golfing, or they're going somewhere. And if you phone them in the room, they aren't talking.

You shouldn't. You've got to be better organized, right? They only get a few off days. So I go up and i say hey carlos can we talk uh tomorrow about uh uh have you got a few minutes to talk tomorrow and he goes uh yeah sure what about and i go because nobody ever asked me what about and i'm not not prepared. So I go, ah, the meaning of life. And he goes, you got to do better than that. And he walks away. So I go upstairs, and I'm angry with Rutzi, or angry.

And I say to him, Michael, I said, can you imagine this, what Delgado said? And he says, look, we're always complaining about the players, that they have dumb stock answers. He says, so the guy wants to think about what you want. I said, what's wrong with that? I said, oh, okay, I guess you're right. So anyways, I went down after the game, and I said, how about we talk about this?

I don't remember what it was. And he said, perfect. So we met at 2 o'clock, and we talked about it. No, it's great. I remember he would be a conscientious, sort of a politically-minded fellow back when not a lot of baseball players were. Yes, he went...

I'm going to butcher the island, but there was an island off Puerto Rico where the U.S. would send... They would have target practice, and the incident rate of cancer was, I don't know, 10 times, 5 times higher or whatever than anywhere else. So he was very angry with that, and this was after 9-11,

and he wouldn't stand on the third base for the... Star-stamped banner. Yeah, or in the seventh inning when they would sing God Bless America. So anyways, the star had a story about this. And it was a real good story. So my boss says, well, how could you not notice him not standing there? And the guy never came to the games, right?

And I said, well, they don't play God Bless America in the seventh inning at the Sky Dome. And I said, they play it in Texas and they play it in New York. That's the only places that I notice. I said, in the Star Spangled Banner, I said, there's probably eight guys out there. The Yankees have everybody out there because GMS George is

nutso, you know, about being patriotic and everything. And plus it happened in New York. I said, I'm sorry. From now on, I'll start counting. That's good points. Carlos Delgado was our best position player for years and years.

Best pitcher was Roy Halladay during the same stretch. What was Roy Halladay like? Roy Halladay was very business-minded, I remember. I would say he was, the other players, the other pitchers at least, were intimidated by him.

You'd read, somebody would write a note in the spring that nine pitchers are now enrolled in Camp Holiday. You know, they're meeting at 6 in the morning, and they're running eight miles or whatever he was doing, or five miles. And then a week later, it's three guys, and then I'd go to them, and I'd say, how many guys you got left? He said, nobody, they're all gone.

You know, they couldn't stand, they couldn't hack it. But he, I remember, I remember a couple of times, you remember Orlando Hudson got sent out? Yeah. Because he said that JP dressed like a pimp. Faintly, yeah. Okay, I thought you went, kind of, yes. Okay.

So anyways, I asked him, I asked Halliday what he thought of all this. And he said, I would say that Orlando Hudson is the best teammate that I've ever hit. And he says, remember this, I went through the organization twice, which was very self-deprecating. You know, he made it. He fell apart. He had everything going wrong, self-doubts and that.

They sent him back down to Class A, and he went A, AA, AAA. So he was knocking himself. And the other day he had the funny line, Hankin came back after being with St. Louis. So I said, what's it like? And they're lockering together. I said, what's it like? And he says, oh, I remember the first day I came in here, I was so scared.

Hankin was the only guy that came over and talked to me. If you need anything, let me know. And he turned around and he looks in Henkin's locker and he says, you know what, he was wearing that same shirt eight years ago. That's great. Yeah. He could give you a, Roy Halladay could give you a complete game two-hour start, which must have been nice from your perspective.

The couple of guys that are in the news now, I need to ask you about, before we get into this so-called retirement I read about. Roy, sorry, Jose Batista, who's still an unrestricted free agent. What was it like covering Jose Batista the last, whatever,

seven years or whatever it's been? I got along with him well. I know he rubbed some guys the wrong way, I guess, but I know the one guy, or the one incident, rather, that people knocked him for was the Goines pop-up in Kansas City. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Goines pop-up in Kansas City. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I've read people say that he threw Goines under the bus. Well, I was there for Goines. I mean, in the postseason, it's like 500 people, so it's very difficult to be everywhere. But I was at both places, and I heard Goines. And Goines threw himself onto the bus. He said, it was my fault, it was all my fault. So now we go to Batista.

And the first question to Batista is from a TV guy, and he says, is there any good that can come out of this miscommunication? So Batista says, pardon or excuse me? So the guy is upset, the TV guy. He says, I said, is there any good that can come out of this communication? Now, that is not a real good question. They just lost when they should have won.

Now, mind you, David Price should not be giving up six straight hits. So Batiste says, no, we messed up. So he's angry. So then I don't know whether it was the second question or the third question. It was like, you saw the replay. I would give him a pass on that one. I mean, if it had started out on goings

and he had dumped on goings maybe, but we all ask stupid questions, but that was not a good question. What did you think? I had Ron McLean here recently, and I was wearing my Batflip t-shirt. I have a t-shirt with a Batflip, and he was telling me how he didn't like that. It was showing up the picture. Ron McLean didn't like the Batflip because he felt it was inappropriate to show up the picture like that or whatnot. are your what are your thoughts on the batista

bat flip well it probably was it was probably uh showing up uh to a certain degree but uh but i think i think the whole problem of the of the you have to remember the top half of the seventh inning what happened and you know they've got know, they've got... O'Doar, yeah. They've got the... Well, it was Cho when Martin threw the ball back. Yeah, I meant he was running... Yeah, well, wasn't O'Doar running from third? O'Doar was the one who was hit, who was running home on the play. Yes, he scored.

Yes, you're right. Yeah, yeah. So, but, you know, up at Queen's Park, they're marshalling police, the riot squad, right? And the people are throwing beer, and I've never been in an atmosphere like that. But both times that inning, the top half, the bench is cleared. And it wasn't anything that Batista did. It wasn't anything that Encarnacion did. Encarnacion is quieting the crowd, correct?

Yeah, yeah, right. And Sam Dyson walks down off the mound, and whatever he says, blah, blah, blah, and Ben Carnaschian snipes back at him, and the bench is clear, right? Right. So then the second time, he pops up to the whiskey, Dyson does, to end the inning, and he goes over and he walks to the whiskey on the bum,

which I've never seen before. In the postseason? Right, right, right, right. And so then the bench is empty again so i and then he and then dyson says afterwards batiste is a bad example for the youth of today well i'm sorry if i if i'm the judge of the arbiter and that i mean whatever batiste is getting for bad manners dyson's getting double or triple. That's right. That's right. Yeah, I mean, this fan base, since the Joe Carter walk-off we just played

from Tom Cheek's call of it, but since then, we're so, I think, starving almost in the city that that moment, that three-run shot, and you're right, after that top of the seventh, and it was game five of a best-of-five, and you kind of weigh everything at that moment. It wasn't a walk-off

because we're only in the seventh inning, but it might as well have been. There was something very, a statement there that made the bat flip seem very authentic and appropriate, and it just seemed like we were all just so happy at that moment. Right.

It would have been, I think I was sitting beside Steve Simmons, and he said, did you see Martin? And I beside Steve Simmons, and he said, did you see Martin? And I said, no. And he said, well, he celebrated the most. And I said, well, there's a good reason for that. Right, right, right.

Because it hit. I mean, that would have been awful to be eliminated. That would have been, like, who even mentions that now? No, no. But he got lazy. He dropped his left knee, and he lobbed the ball and he's done it a hundred times and Cho didn't do anything wrong.

He's got that nervous habit of tugging on the sleeve and sticking the, the bat didn't go over the plate. Had you ever seen anything like that? I'd never seen that, no. I'd never seen that, but you've seen a lot more baseball

than I have. That's the thing about baseball. Like, remember the one that was infield pop-up and Reyes was standing on second? I think it was Oakland. Yeah, yeah. Or was it Oakland?

Anyways, the guy went over and he's going to catch it, going to catch it, and getting closer and closer. And Reyes doubles over and hip checks him accidentally. And they argued, but it was an E6. Speaking of E, what a segue. You know, I'm not a broadcaster, but I can play one once in a while. But speaking of E, Edwin Encarnacion, so he's unrestricted too. And I'm going to go back to him and Jose in a minute in terms of what's going on next.

But what was it like covering Edwin this past several years? Well, Edwin, I remember this spring I did a story on that seventh inning. And the point, I did it minute by minute and 54 minutes, whatever it was, 56 minutes. So I'm looking for an ending, right? And I've talked to almost everybody. And Edwin's not that comfortable in the language, but he's okay. And so I go by and I said, what's up?

I'm asking about the seventh inning last year or whatever. And so he was eating some soup or yogurt or something. He says, what do you mean? So I tell him a couple of other what guys have said. So he finishes eating, and he looks up, and he says, you know, I think the baseball gods were watching that game, and they didn't think, after watching the top half of the seventh, they didn't think it should end that way

because the bottom of the seventh starts E e6 e3 e6 and then they'll probably the worst play of all was odore like on the little ball that donaldson hits which scores the run i mean all he's got to do is turn and do a crossover step and he catches in his back pocket and step instead he's like backing up like a peewee or something. Right. It was like four bad plays in a row. Yeah, the baseball guns. I didn't think that was right. Who's the best player you've ever covered? Alomar.

Used to be Dawson. The Hawk. I remember, yeah, he won. So the Hawk won MVP with Chicago, right, back in 87? Yeah, I didn't agree with that. I mean, they finished last, so how valuable was he? You know, without Dawson, were they ahead of Iowa, you know? No, that's right.

But now that I mention 87, I got to ask you, since I got you in my basement here, I hear a lot of people say, you know, Bell should never have won MVP in 87 because Alan Trammell should have been MVP. At least I've heard this from some people who know what they're talking about. Did you think Bell was worthy of the

87 MVP? I didn't have the vote that year, but I thought it would have been much... I thought he would have won by more. He did finish two for 26. Yeah, he had best. One was an infield hit, but

with Fernandez getting hurt eight games ago and Ernie Witt, what was it, six games ago, I think? Yeah. So he didn't have a lot of production. He had Juan Beniquez and Rick Leach in front of him and behind him, you know? Right. And Sparky told him, don't throw him a strike.

Right. Okay, I've got to ask you about the Toronto Sun. So this is, where are we now? We're almost Christmas here, so it's mid-December. So you retired. Actually, let me play John Gibbons here. If this audio plays, let's see how I do here. Just bear with me for a second here.

All right, let's hear. This is John Gibbons, I guess May 31, 2016. Well, before we get started, Jay, I guess the news about Bob Elliott. Bob retiring. Is Bob in here? Is that right? Is it out there yet? I sure as hell hope so.

It's not out there yet. It's not? Well, first off, hey, you know, Bob's a friend to everybody in this room and the people out there that aren't here. You know, it's a big loss for baseball. He's been a great writer for many, many years. He's done a lot for the sport, and he's a friend to everybody, and so everybody's going to miss him.

Hopefully he hangs around a while. So, look, Bobby, Hall of Famer well before you see even Gibby thinks that you're a Hall of Famer I was you know by the way did you ever refer to him as Gibby or just John Gibbons like I never I never I never went in for nicknames I call him skipper I had this Skip or San Antonio or whatever. Because Wilner calls him Gibby. And I feel what you've done there is you've sort of

put yourself as a fan and I think that then you open yourself up to criticism. I think you're better to not give him the name Gibby because now how do you objectively cover the guy? That's my thoughts on that. I agree with that. And I would say

Wilner should get danger pay after some of those bad losses. I mean, I could not do that. Could you do that? No way. No way. I mean, people are so angry and it's like, Michael, it's your fault. If Brett Cecil

gives up a couple of hits in the eighth and costs us a game or whatever, yeah, he's got to field every other caller once that guy hanged. But the thing about Gibbons that night, I was not downstairs yet because, let me think. I think that was, what date did you say that was? May 31st. So I think it was supposed to be,iday was supposed to be my last day but so anyways i was writing that night and

so simmons came to the park to write about uh me and it was a nice very nice story way too nice but anyway so everybody knew about it so everybody's coming over and talking to me and what's going on and why is this and what happened and and and I said well I have to write and then the office phones I said are you writing your farewell tonight and I said well no I'm working tomorrow and the next night was even worse so uh so anyways I did not hear it until uh i was on the radio in montreal and they played it and it was shocking i mean it was i mean uh but i'll tell you this he is he is a good guy let me let me give him let me tell you this there's a guy there toronto's playing texas okay in the last round or the first round this year, and there's a guy down

there, a friend of mine, he's covered the Rangers, he used to cover the Braves, anyways, he's got two boys in grade 12, so Gibbons says, where are your boys going to school, you decide, and they're both football players, and he said, well, there's this Macalester University in Minnesota, I think, and then there's another school in California, and then there's another school in California and then there's another one in Texas called Trinity so he says we made the visits and everything so so there's about six or seven guys standing around right so anyways they get out on the field and Gibbons calls him over he says hey you got a pen and he says yeah so, you got a pen? And he says, yeah. So he says, write down these numbers.

So he writes down the two numbers. He says, what are they? He says, well, that's my home number. That's my cell number. He says, Trinity, it turns out, is in San Antonio. He says, if your boys decide on Trinity, if they ever need help, if they're ever in trouble, don't hesitate. And the thing about that is this guy in Texas is not going to write, you know, like,

I think John Gibbons made a good move last night bringing the guy in in the eighth instead of the seventh. I mean, it's not like he has a horse in the race. Right, right. You know, he's just being a nice guy, you know. Nice, nice. So tell me now, why are you retiring? Not only, so why are you retiring at that time, especially? Like, this is like June.

You're in the middle of a baseball season, you know, a season in which the Jays are going to make the playoffs for the second year in a row. I'm just, I think I should shut up and let you talk. Why? Why did you retire? Well, I asked for the buyout in the previous November as soon as I got home from the World Series and went in to do my expenses and I guess it was January they said yeah

we're gonna give you a buyout and there wasn't a buyout and they said no don't worry one's coming and you might not even have to go to spring training and so they did buyouts in Ottawa they did them in Peterborough they did them in London they did everywhere and then they got to Toronto and they stopped. So in May I went and asked, I said, is there going to be any buyouts? And I was told there wasn't going to be any buyouts for a year and a half. And so then I guess it would have been probably about May 16th or something. I, uh, I had headed up,

up to here. And, uh, I, I think I'd slowed a step or two, two. And, my son, uh,

my son had his second grandchild and that, or sorry, his second child, my second grandchild. Right. So that was, uh, uh,

there was a lot of things going on, but it wasn't a sudden boom. On May 15th, I decided to go in on the 16th and give in. I'd gone in November, whatever date that was, as soon as I went in to do my expenses for the previous World Series. So for those who don't know,

and I only know this because I have a bunch of people from the media in this room, and I hear a lot about the involuntary. So there's the voluntary packages where people can raise their hand and take the buyout offered to them. And this is happening a lot right now in the newspaper industry, especially. I think all of them have offered uh voluntary buyouts packages like in 2016 in fact i read somewhere that there's only one day one or left from the toronto sun because uh some other day oneers had taken the package and had their last days like i guess now it's post media i guess so post media offers these so so you voluntarily took one of these no one pushed

you out you decided it was time to go and you took a package. No, I didn't get a package. Oh, you took, well, okay. I just said enough was enough. Well, they told me there wasn't going to be any for a year and a half, and then like three months later, there was. Okay, now you know what?

I'm glad I babbled there to get the clarification. So, are you kicking yourself at all? Are you just missing or no? No, I'm not. You can't go through life like that no that's a good point hey i had nortel shares that's right that's right they're like brie x i guess so my nortel shares my son's in grade uh he's going to be an accountant right he's first year university i guess so he says look you gotta sell them you gotta sell them

so the financial expert comes and he says uh i said i said we'll decide what he says so i said what what are we going to do with these you know it's it's a lot of money and he says uh i said he said what do you want to do i said look i said i said we inherited them as my from my uncle i said i said i don't really feel like it's uh uh i said we don't need feel like it's, I said, we don't need it, but just what should we do? Is it a wise investment or not?

He said, look, here's what's going to go up. It's going to go down some and then it's going to come back up. Well, it went down and down and down. Right.

I remember this. It was like 100 or something. It was 80 and then it was 40 and it kept, there was no bottom there. It was like, it's empty beer cans now,

I think, you know, or whatever. So you didn't sell? No. No, it was like, it's empty beer cans now, I think, you know, or whatever. So you didn't sell? No, no, I listened to my guy. My son reminds me all the time. I bet you he does. I bet you he does. And you mentioned you had one more,

in your last column, you wrote about your two regrets, Ted Williams and Kevin Millar. And it was a great column, by the way. People should Google this thing and find it on the Toronto Sun website. But you also wrote in this final column, you wrote, and I'll quote you, the sun wants me to continue and we should have that worked out one way or another in a couple of weeks. Is there any update to that sentence you wrote in that piece? No, they wanted to

talk that day that I handed them my resignation. I said, no, no. I said, we're not going to do it now because you haven't paid me all the holiday pay and all that. So I said, we're not going to argue about that, right? And then I was at a going away party for our secretary, Christina. And the boss asked me that night. And he said, we got to talk about that right now. And I said, no, and the boss asked me that night, and he said, we've got to talk about that right now. And I said, no, we can't. And he said, why not?

And I said, I have to go to the washroom. I said, I'll be right back. So I came back, and he was busy, and I sat down, I looked around, five minutes later, he was gone. So I haven't really heard, but now they've gone into layoffs and that. Yeah, I guess when there's not enough people to into layoffs and that. Yeah. I guess, I guess when there's not enough people to take the voluntary packages, they become, I guess we can call them like involuntary.

Yeah. This, uh, I'm not sure. I haven't heard much, uh, how it works. Do you have though, do you have that itch? Like do you have a, an itch? Well, I'm still, I mean, uh, uh, my friends in the States think I'm living in a hammock, you know, with my feet up. I mean, I'm still, I mean, my friends in the States think I'm living in a hammock with my feet up. I mean, I still have that website, the Canadian Baseball Network. I must work 10 hours a day on that editing. And I don't write as much as I should, but we have a lot of kids. We had one woman was hired by Canadian press full-time and

another guy got a job at Sportsnet and I think it's full-time part-time and we had we had somebody else it looks like they're gonna get a job from what they phone me the other day for a reference uh from a newspaper but uh it's uh it's kind of like uh i don't know maybe a feeder system or um you know it we we we it used to be just canadians but now we write about the blue jays too and uh i don't know uh i don't know i'm not the expert we have people who that, like monitor the hits and all that. It's a fun thing for coast to coast.

Because next week, I have people coming over that write for The Athletic, which is a new web venture. So you subscribe. John Lott writes for this, for example. John Lott's outstanding. John Lott, I asked him to come on,

and he told me that he's print-only, he told me. No broadcasting, which reminded me of your original answer. But you didn't tell me those words, but when you originally declined to come on, that sometimes print people are more comfortable writing, as opposed to... Yeah, well, I remember... Do you remember that Mitch Cesaria?

Do you remember him? He was at Global? No. He was at the Winter Meetings once in Houston. He said, will you come on at 5.30? This is about 10 in the morning. And I said, yeah, sure. So now I'm thinking, I'm walking around all day and I

got this pit and I got my, my stomach hurts and I'm awful. And I'm, I'm thinking I'm going to be sick to my stomach the whole day. And I'm thinking, what is this? What is this? I'm thinking, I'm wondering if it's, I'm nervous that I'm going to be on TV. So, uh, I never had that before. So I went on and I said, look, I don't think I can do this. And he said, well, have you ever done TV? And I said, no, just a few times. I have to do it when I do the book, when I do a book or something. But no, not. So anyways, I said, do you mind?

He said, no, not at all. So they banged me and the ratings went up. But I guess with The Athletic, I guess I was wondering, would you have any interest in writing for a site like that or are you content with where you're writing now? I'm busy now,

but I don't really know. I've looked at John's stories a few times. I'll have to take a look at it. It's done pretty well from the first look, my first glance, anyways. Jackie Robinson is being troubled by his teammates Steve Simmons wrote a great piece about you for the Sun what's it like working with Steve for so many years

we were I think I was January 13th or 15th and he was I don't know maybe February 2, 87 is our start date. So I think his first byline we had together was on whether grass would grow in the skydome or not. And it was kind of to combat Robbie uh eight days in a row or something right right but uh no steven is uh uh i would say this steven can

i can't do what steven does like steven can write he is an idiot period period. He is wrong, period. He's a bad player. I can't write like that. And I think somebody else told me this, that he envies the way I can cut with a thousand paper cuts. But I'm not really sure about that. But he's written, whether it was the Cooperstown week or St. Mary's week, he's written a ton of very, very nice stuff about me.

I mean, his nose must be growing when he's writing it. I've had the pleasure of having some lengthy chats with Steve Simmons, and he speaks extremely highly of you, without a doubt. In fact, in that piece he wrote about you when you were retiring from The Sun, he quotes Edwin Encarnacion. I'm just going to read the quote from Edwin here. This is Edwin's words.

This is about you, by the way. He's the one person I can talk to with confidence. If I want to talk about trusting, I believe a lot in him. His relationship with the players is amazing. He's got the respect of the players. There aren't many doing the work he does. He deserves what he got. And he's referring to the Hall of Fames, the Canadian and the American. He's an amazing guy. We're going to miss him. So there's a guy, you know, Edwin Encarnacion, a quiet guy. We don't hear a lot from Edwin, and he's making some very complimentary and pointed positives about you.

So this trust he talks about, and he talks to you with confidence. Have you talked to him since you retired? Do we know what he's thinking right now? Right now, what's Edwin doing? Yes, I've talked to him since I retired. But since the World Series?

Not since they've been eliminated. No, I've talked to the agent about three times, Paul Kinzer. And here's the way I would look at this, Michael. And you as a fan, you can tell me if I'm right or wrong. So the Blue Jays go into this negotiation within Carnation.

They're trying to win the negotiation. And I would say they've won the negotiation. Okay? But is your goal to win the negotiation or is to make the team better? To make the team better should be the goal. Well, I don't think they've made the team better. I mean, here's the thing. The guy wanted to sign here.

Now, I know a lot of people are giving him flack for $80 million. It's a lot of money. But I think it was 48 hours, take it or leave it. And then they expanded it to to 72 hours excuse me but he still couldn't talk to boston or the yankees or whomever yet so it's kind of like you know the guy's played for whatever number of years he's played now he's finally a free agent you know it's kind of like being the queen of the prom or whatever. You get to be courted, whatever. And the union puts a tremendous amount of pressure on both the agent and the player

not to take the hometown discount and the first offer. So they could have waited a week, and the Yankees could have signed Halliday. Boston could have said, well, we're spending all our resources on sale. And they would have them for maybe 82 or something. Maybe it would have been 80. But the thing is, like, how do you – I know people have emailed me saying that the guy Morales is going to do better. Well, I'd like to see how he's going to do better.

And they're saying he's younger. Well, the one guy was born in January. The other guy was born in June. Yeah, right. That's not a big difference. And the one guy's playing on a broken ankle. He runs as fast as Benji Molina. Morales does.

So get ready for that. Oh, boy. So I don't think, and I mean, here's the thing, and then everybody said, well, they're going to go after Fowler. They're going to go after Fowler. Well, they didn't get Fowler. You have to go an extra year to get a guy to come, like Martin even. They had to give him an extra year.

But this guy, he wanted to stay here. He was comfy here. Why do you go and play hardball? And I saw Shapiro on the TV, and it was, we were going to be ultra, ultra aggressive because we knew there was too many bats for the number of needs, okay? And now we're going to be ultra, ultra conservative. Well, why go and be stuck with it? I don't understand it.

So you tell me as a fan, which do you want? What do you want your team to do? Win the negotiation or feel the better team? Feel the better team, please. And Edwin, beloved, too. That's got to have some value for money to Rodgers. Batista can cause some problems.

Batista can complain in the second inning, and now the umpire, the strike zone gets smaller. Edwin, I mean, I think he got kicked out of a game once that I can recall, but he's not a troublemaker, a disturber. And now, you know, like a year ago, it was like Batista was the hero, correct?

Right. And now this season ended, Edwin's the hero, he's coming back, everything's great, and now if we choose one or the other, Batista's got the better chance to come back because of the outfield problem. And they don't want Batista, from what I'm told. They wanted the other, Batista's got the better chance to come back because of the outfield problem. And they don't want Batista, from what I'm told.

They wanted the other guy. They're going to wind up with Ben Revere instead of Batista? How do you replace all those home runs for Encarnacion, Batista, and Michael Saunders? Oh, man. You know, you're right. Good point. Six months ago, I actually, and I wrote this, I felt like we were going to say goodbye to Jose,

and that was going to go, but Edwin would be the guy we'd try to, that was six months ago. And you're right, today, as we speak, it feels like, is it done? It feels like Edwin's gone. This feels like this ship has sailed, as they say. And it feels like we'll probably, although we put our line

in the sand, but we'll pay, but it sounds like we could have Batista back. So it's interesting how things have kind of flipped. Yeah. Well, okay. By the way, speaking of baseball Canada, so you're not too far from where, you know, Joey Votto grew up,

and he went to school at Don Bosco, right? So that's like not too far north of here or whatever. But how is... 14 blocks from where he used to hit. 14 blocks. How is Canada baseball? Is it in good shape? I would say it's a little bit...

Maybe it was better maybe four or five years ago, but I would say it's in a golden era since 1998. They had... Thank you for asking. They had, thank you for asking, they had, I remember asking Bill Bykowski once, I think it was 99, how many Canadians do you think are playing in the States? And he said, oh, maybe 100, but you'd never figure it out.

So I took that as a challenge, and it was the first year I figured it out, it was 490. Wow. And last year, there was over 800, and that's not counting 700 still here. So, I mean, Cal Quantrill, he got 3.5 million, I think, something like that. He went eighth overall, and, you know, Brett Laurie was a first-rounder, and it's all because of Greg Hamilton, who runs the national team.

Justin Morneau was on his first team that he took to Florida. So you have to understand what makes it so much so easy and why scouts love to scout Canada is that they're using a wood bat and they're playing against pros when they go to Florida and when they go to the Dominican. And, you know, like if you go into Pennsylvania on a Tuesday night to see the best high school pitcher face the best high school hitter, the coach is saying, don't you throw him a strike.

We've got to win this game, right? So he flies in there, sees the guy walk four times, or maybe swing at a bad pitch and pop up, you know? Right. You mentioned the outfield, the Blue Jays outfield. So you'd mentioned Ben Revere, for example. This is the kind of guy who's out there, I guess, if you need another outfielder, which the Jays do.

But I got to ask about my recent friend, Dalton Pompey, okay? So isn't it time to give Dalton Pompey a chance to start in the outfield, the Blue Jays outfield? Yeah, I think they should, yeah. Speaking of Canadian baseball. He started two years ago, right? Yeah. He started two years ago.

And what, the end of April, I think? I mean, that was the year they had the six rookies like like uh that was anthopolis last year correct yeah uh yeah yeah yeah so so anyways i remember writing that we'll see panic trades by him to make uh to keep his job well we didn't see any panic trades over the winter but what what we saw were panic decisions, I thought. I mean, Castro didn't last very long. Osuna worked out. Yes.

Travis, who else? Pompey, and then there was the two guys. Oh, Norris. So they sent Norris down. They were in Cleveland. They sent them down the same time, I think, Norris and Pompey. And then last year, I think he was doing pretty well, and they were thinking of calling him up,

and he dove headfirst into, I think it was in left field in Allentown, Lehigh Valley, and he suffered a concussion. But I don't know, did you see that story about him the other day? Giving out the Tim cards? Yeah. Yeah, for his 24th birthday? Yeah, so I've had a number of people email me from across the country saying I'm doing what Dalton Pompei did and I'm paying it forward.

It's a wonderful, wonderful, I would think, that Pay It Forward movie, that's outstanding. Well, you know, I did see some criticism. They're like, well, he's telling us that he's doing this, but the whole point of sharing this is for people to pay it forward, for people to be inspired and do it. I did not get the impression he was bragging. No.

And prior to that story, when he turned 24, which was like last week or something, I had my first direct interactions with Dalton Pompey because Dwight Drummond, and I'll do the short version. If people want the longer version of this, it's at the beginning of my episode of Chris Zelkovich. I share the details of what I'm... So the real quick Reader's Digest version is that

it turns out Dalton Pompey's father was a popular dancer on Electric Circus, which was a popular dance show at the City TV building at 299 Queen Street back in the early 90s. I was never on. You were never? I thought you were there. I thought I saw you there. But the cowboy, this is the nickname

they gave Dalton Pompey's father. I know the father, Ken. So Ken's nickname was the cowboy. And in 1992, this won't be your cup of tea, I'm going to guess, but I'm going to play it anyways while I talk about it. Where did I hide it? Just give me a second here.

Summertime. In 1992, Ken Rick, who was known as the Cowboy, put out a house dance single called Summertime, Summertime, which you're listening to right now. So this was a 1992 single. So this all comes out in the last month.

So I'm in contact with Dalton because I want Dalton to make this his walk-up music when he plays at the Dome. Because this is his dad's single from 92. And he says it's a great idea. He's considering it and he might come in and talk about it. But that's another story. So now I'm hardcore not only because he's from like the GTA but I really want Dalton

to have a chance to get that everyday outfielder, outfield spot. Here's Dalton's father real quick here. Can you rap as well as Ken here? No. No. Okay. People want the long version of this story. Go to the Chris Dalkovich episode.

But yeah, so I'm hoping that Dalton, and it's not, who is, what is the outfield right now on opening day? If we were to shut, shut things down right now? I think it's Upton.

Pillar and who? Upton and Pillar. And I don't know. Carrera is not an everyday player. So, yeah. Let's give Pompey a chance if we don't go out and get a review or something like that. Just wrapping up.

It's been fantastic, by the way. But I need to ask you about primetime sports here. So, Bobcat, Bob McCowan, who hosts primetime sports, when he has you on, I think it's fantastic radio. Like I will say, you're one of the very best guests that Bob would have on primetime sports. I'm not just saying that because you're right in front of me here. It's the truth.

But what is it, about a year ago or something, you were critical of Blue Jays' ownership. Yeah, I'm not on anymore. Right. So this is what I'm getting at. Like, Rogers owns the Jays. Yeah. Rogers owns Fan 590 and the Bobcat Primetime Sports.

So what, you were banned? Or you were banned from Primetime Sports? Well, the only reason I'm talking about this, Michael, is Bob, Robert, he explained all this. I think it was, I was on June, the last night I worked, the last night of the Yankee homestand. It was either June the 1st, I think. I think it was the last night of the Yankee homestand. It was either June the 1st, I think. I think it was a Wednesday.

I was on, and that was the first time I was on since, I guess, Alex left because they didn't like the way I wrote that they should have retained and found a way to make it work for Anthopolis. So, but, I mean, Bob, Robert and I, we don't have any problem at all. For me, he's the most amazing person in our business. If you recall back when he lived in Vegas,

like if he didn't stay here in Vegas, you would think he was here at the Leafs game tonight, the Raptors game, and he didn't miss a game. I mean, I don't know how he does it. He's an amazing, amazing man, how he's able to be plugged into all these situations and not left out or out of touch. I mean, we never had a problem, but some of the suits did. I wasn't any rougher on Rodgers than Robert problem, but some of the suits did.

I wasn't any rougher on Rogers than Robert was, but Robert makes them a lot of money. It's their radio station. They can do what they want. There's no hard feelings. It's their station. As a fan, I think that it's horrible.

I just think it's horrible. There's already so many issues with the, and tell me what you think of this, the same company that owns the team, owns the media that covers the team and broadcasts the team games, like, that already, I remember Wilner getting a suspension for comments he made about Cito Gaston.

This is a few years ago. Yeah, I remember that, but was that for comments or was that just for the argument in the dugout? Willner was never told because he was never told why he was being suspended, but he believes it's because

of him criticizing Cito. That's what he believes to be true. They don't ever tell you. I heard the argument in the dugout. I didn't hear him say anything on the radio. What was the argument in the dugout? Man, that was a long time ago. It was something about, I think it was the bullpen or something. I don't really recall.

Michael would remember. But how, like, is that a problem in your eyes that this one company has, would sort of, almost like forces self-censorship of sorts because your paychecks come... You as a journalist, if you work for Sportsnet or Fan 590 or whatnot, your check comes from the same company that pays for the team, and there's a whole conflict of interest inherent there.

Well, I remember a couple of years ago, somebody came up and they said, how is it that the whole the whole town is is all the writers in this town are tied up by uh they're working for uh for the club basically and i said well i'm not and uh the guy said well you're on the fan and i said i guess i am you know but uh but i would i would if you know uh you don't you don't always get your choices but uh uh if i had my choice i would rather not work for uh i would rather not work for the company that owned the team you know because even you they don't have to say anything a lot of times

it's self-censorship but on the other hand you, you've got Robert, who's very, very critical. And Gregory is maybe out of control some nights. I mean, he's very critical. But those are the only two guys, really, I think. Yeah.

Those are the main... They seem to be the designated attack dogs, if you will, that can kind of bite the hand that feeds. I've noticed those two guys. You're right.

And they're always the exceptions you point out. But generally speaking, you don't, other than those two guys, you don't see much bite back. No, I guess you're right. Although, Shai had one that they probably didn't like the other day about, like, why didn't the Blue Jays with Edwin take the same approach that the Dodgers took with Jansen and Turner? Like, let them go out and explore and come back wagging their tails behind them.

And they signed them both, you know, and Rich Hill, too. You know, Bob, this is my Christmas gift, I think. I got two hours to chat with you about baseball. This was two hours? I think so. Wow, it's sailed by. No, that means that you had a good time, I think. I got two hours to chat with you about baseball. This was two hours? I think so. Wow, it's so long. That means that you had a good time, I think. But normally when I close these

episodes, I always close with the same song. It's by one of my favorite bands, Lowest of the Low, Rosie and Grey. But I'm not going to close this episode of that song because in your farewell column for the Toronto Sun, you actually declared what your closing music would be. Well done.

Not normally my cup of tea, to be quite honest, but it seems very appropriate for this episode. So thanks very much for dropping by. Well, I'll put this up against Summertime any day. That's the battle of the bands we've been waiting for. Summertime, Summertime. I like the beat, Dick. So this, by the way, for those wondering,

this is George Strait, and the song is called Troubadour. So we'll let it play us out, and Merry Christmas to all of you. And thank you for listening, and thanks for visiting, Bob. Yes, Merry Christmas. Thank you very much, Michael. And that brings us to the end of our 207th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at TorontoMike, and Bob is at ElliotBaseball.

And our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer, and Chef's Plate is at ChefsPlateCA. See you all next week. What I am I was a young troubadour When I wrote in on a song And I'll be an old troubadour When I'm gone Well, the truth about a mirror Is that a damn normal mirror