Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Bob McKenzie: Toronto Mike'd #750

Episode Date: November 12, 2020

Mike speaks with Bob McKenzie about life in semi-retirement, the losses of Alex Trebek and Howie Meeker, the beckoning call of Pearl Jam, his new book Everyday Hockey Heroes, Vol 2, the upcoming junior tournament, the Canadian NHL division and more.

Welcome to episode 750 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. Joanne Glutish, a lifetime member of the National Chairmen's Club, awarded to the top

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is December 2nd at 7pm. And Palma Pasta Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is TSN Hockey Insider, Bob McKenzie. Welcome back, Bob.

Good to be back. Now, Bob, you know your milestone, episode 750. How does that feel? I know. What kind of prize do I get for that? I was hoping like a Lamborghini, Maserati. Oh, I'm going to have to get the kind of sponsors you get on TSN to get such prizes. But I will say this.

Episode 700 went to Nick Kiprios. That's cool. When he finds out, though, that you, Bob McKenzie, got the more impressive milestone episode 750, he's going to tweet about those fuckers at TSN again. Yes, he is. Yes, he is. And quick plug, if you get a chance,

after you purchase Everyday Hockey Heroes volume two by myself and Jim Lang, um, purchase Kipper's book. And although I will say this and I'll, I'll tell him when I'm going to be on his show in a week or so. Um, the best writing in Kipper's book is my, is my blurb on his book.

Right. Right. Where I make reference to those fuckers at TSN. I love that you guys have a good sense of humor about that. And we all do. Like, it's just looks, it's all fun competition, but you guys are all kind of buds, right? You're all in the same game.

Yeah, we're all in the same boat. By the way, just, you know, all kidding aside on the 750 number, that's incredible. That's a lot of podcasts and the thing that really struck me it didn't seem that long ago that i did your your pod well and then i saw that it was episode 223 i was like wait a second 223 750 i mean we're you know there, that's what, 502? Well, actually, you're 227. You're 227. Oh, 227.

That's it. There you go. I thought you might have got like a tattoo or something for 227 to commemorate that event in your life. Exactly. But in any case, that's remarkable. You're prolific. Well, thanks, Bob. No, there's a lot of, it turns out there's a lot of interesting conversations to be had.

So this is a good opportunity for me to tell listeners that this is not your Toronto Mike debut. If people are interested in the A to Z deep dive, they do want episode 227. So you could pause this, go listen to 227 and come back. I'm just, Bob, I'm going to read the description for 227 just so people know what's in the archives. In this 227 just so people know what's in the archives.

In this 227th episode, Mike chats with TSN hockey insider Bob McKenzie about his career in sports broadcasting, having a son working for the competition. We'll talk more about that in a minute. Appearing on Howard Stern. I've got questions about that in a minute. His Bobcast. Now, the Bobcast, it's no longer in production, right?

No, it's on a long sabbatical. Good, because I don't need more competition here. And when he'll retire. So we had a pretty frank discussion about when you'll retire. We'll talk more about that in a moment. But that episode was about 90 minutes.

But quick story before we hear more Bob and less Mike. That day, and I know when it was because there was a six-month period when my youngest was between the ages of 12 months and eight months, and the daycare wouldn't take her till eight, sorry, 12 months and 18 months, and the daycare wouldn't take her till 18 months, but my wife had to go back to work at 12 months, so there was six months where we had a nanny taking care of the two little ones. And I didn't tell the nanny what I did or anything, you know, but she was in the kitchen when I emerged from the basement one day. And right behind me, emerging from my basement was Bob McKenzie. And Nikki was her name. And Nikki was a huge hockey fan and loves you, Bob McKenzie.

And I still remember her reaction to this. Like, what's going on that Bob McKenzie just came out of the basement out of nowhere? So that was quite a moment for her. Oh, it's always nice. Hello, Nicky. Hello, Nicky. And you did take a photo with her, which she cherishes. So thanks for doing that, too.

Where do we begin? she cherishes. So thanks for doing that too. Where do we, where do we begin? Let's ask first and foremost, have you had any more appearances on Howard Stern since we last talked? I don't know how many I'd done the last time we,

we talked. I've done the wrap, I've done the wrap up show. I think three times, but I'm not sure. I don't remember now whether it's two or three. Maybe it's only two, but I might not have. And I think I was planning to last this past season. I thought, oh, you know what?

It's my last full-time year. And I was still going to New York a lot for NBC on Wednesdays. And I thought I'll sneak one more in. And then obviously things got busy and i hadn't got around to anything covid hit and then it was like the world changed last march so i haven't really thought about that but i do try to listen to howard i'm not in the car as much now as i used to be and that was my prime time to listen to howard but i still make a point of uh of trying to listen to him as he does his whole show from home well Well, I was going to ask you if you still listen,

and it sounds like you're still listening when you can. But also, there's an interview I have to catch up on, but I'm aching to hear because I'm a huge Pearl Jam fan. But did you hear the Eddie Vedder interview on Howard Stern? No, I haven't heard it yet. And it's funny because if I was doing a bucket list of things that I needed to do once I got into semi-retirement, bucket list of things that I needed to do once I got into semi-retirement.

It was, I'm, I'm anecdotally familiar with Pearl Jam's music and what have you. And I, and I do, when I'm in the car and I'm listening to Sirius XM, I do like to go to the, the Pearl Jam channel, but I, the whole Pearl Jam phenomena is one that I want to get a lot deeper involved in. And I can't wait to do the Eddie Vedder interview with Howard. Well I kind of envy you that you get to kind of dive into the Pearl Jam catalog now I mean because I did it in real time and honestly I know you're a big hip guy you know Thugs is a song that was accompanied the podcast etc but my two favorite

bands in the world always were the Tragically Hip and Pearl Jam so yeah I can see that and it's funny because after Gord Downie passed one of the people in sort of you know mainstream superstar rock that that really seemed to get Gord Downie and paid an enormous tribute to him including concerts and songs and words and spoken word was Eddie Vedder. And, you know, apropos of nothing, Pearl Jam, for me, in addition to all the great music they generate themselves, I don't know if there's another band that does a better job with cover songs than Pearl Jam.

Great point. Unbelievable. Yeah. I just got chills when you talked about, you know, when Eddie showed, I believe the day of the last hip concert. So,

and which I'll never forget watching the final show from Kingston. And that night, I believe Eddie Vedder was on stage in Chicago. I want to say like, maybe it was Wrigley Field. And I know he did a, like a shout out to the hip and Gore Downey. And I get chills just kind of. Maybe it was Wrigley Field. I know he did a shout out to the hip and Gore Downey. I get chills just thinking about it. He totally gets it. Great

point there. I know, of course, a long time you were at the Hockey News. I was just reading a piece in the Hockey News about how Alex Trebek almost became the host of Hockey Night in Canada and not Dave Hodge. Did you read this? No, I haven't read that yet. That's a fascinating, it's funny. The whole Alex Trebek thing. I remember him first as the host of reach for the top. Right. Right. And which was the high school, you know, the egghead competition that I'd never get a chance to be on.

And that, although, although I should point out that my claim to fame was I was never smart enough in high school to get on Reach for the Top. But I was on a show when I was in grade seven at Bendale Public School. I was on a show called Swing Around, which was a CBC, actually CBLT. It was actually on locally on the CBC channel in Toronto. And it was hosted by some guy named Lloyd Roberts. And that was my very first time on TV

because I was selected to go to, instead of teams of four for like reach for the top it was teams of two it was myself and a girl named edwina john whose brother by the way is prakash john who played bass for alice cooper and and uh bush formerly known as mandela the original bush not bush x right and so so anyways they edwina just lived around the corner from me in Scarborough, and we were selected to go on the show, and Lloyd Robertson was the host. So, you know, there's sort of the mixing of metaphors with Alex Trebek and Lloyd and reach for the top and swing around. And I was never a threat to Ken Jennings on Jeopardy, let me assure you. You need more sports categories, I guess. More hockey

topics. Actually, just to digress for one second, it was almost the most embarrassing moment of my grade 7 life. There was a question, and so Lloyd holds up a card and shows it was our turn to answer the question. We were playing bridal with public school, and we lost, by the way. And I'm glad we didn't lose on this question so he shows me a picture of of somebody and and myself and edwina and we're supposed to know who it is or say who it is and i'm i'm looking at the picture i go man that's really familiar i should know that i should know that i uh okay and i'm i'm sitting there and i go sure and and I'm looking and it was actually a live studio

audience with our fellow classmates and some of my friends are looking at me and they're looking at me with that look on your face like what are you doing like how do you not know this and and so I'm like now the pressure is really on and I was having this first blank tv moment of my life where I'm like, oh my God, I know this. I just can't figure it out. And anyway, so I'm about to say Lester Pearson and

Edwina Jean, we're allowed to talk about it. She says to me, isn't it that hockey guy? Foster Hewitt! It's Foster Hewitt! So I was almost embarrassed on multiple front stairs. It saved my life, but Lena did. Oh, that's amazing.

To put the loop on that fantastic story, like if you consider this alternate reality where instead of Dave Hodge hosting Hockey Dining Canada, and we're going to actually touch up. Oh my God, yeah. Imagine Alex Trebek. And apparently they didn't like his mustache. This is the crux of why Alex didn't get the gig.

They didn't like his mustache. That's crazy. And you know, Alex was an icon for all of us. And as I said, reached for the top, Jeopardy. I used to watch Jeopardy before Alex when Art Fleming was the host. I used to rush him from school. Because it was on from 12 to, I think the Flintstones were on from 12 to 12.30. And Jeopardy was on from 12. I think the Flintstones were on from 12 to 1230. Right. And Jeopardy was on from 1230 to one. And so I'd watched Jeopardy with my mom at 1230 at lunchtime

and, uh, and then race back to school. But, um, a couple of years ago at the NHL awards in Vegas, Alex was there and I just went up and introduced myself to him and told him I was a big fan. And I said, I was going to ask for a picture with him, but I didn't because I just thought I'd be a fan boy. I kind of wish I had of, and he was very, very, you know, and he asked me, it's funny because he said, Oh, you work at TSN. I said, yeah. And he goes, how's my old friend, Gordon Craig. And Gordon Craig, of course, was one of the founders of TSN.

So we had we shared a nice conversation about Gordon Craig. And that was that. But nevertheless, really sad news that he and Howie Meeker on the same day. Well, I'm going to ask about Howie in a moment. But for Alex, it's interesting that his last public appearance was uh announcing a draft choice for the ottawa senators so there's a hockey tie in there too the last time we heard him but uh yeah great loss great loss um before i ask you about howie though uh what the heck is semi-retirement like so this was like a big announcement bob mckenzie is semi-retired not fully retired semi-retirement so i guess a how is semi-retirement treating you and b what the heck is semi-retirement so i guess a how is semi-retirement treating you and

b what the heck is semi-retirement well semi-retirement is outstanding um and i'm not quite sure i have the perfect answer on what exactly it is other than i'll try to explain it this way when i work now and i didn't want to i I, you know, I didn't want to just drop off the face of the planet here and not do, do nothing. I didn't, I didn't want to just have empty, totally empty days, but I didn't want to be as busy as I was. Right. And, and the quote unquote hockey insider job, it becomes a little life consuming and Darren Dragger, Elliot Friedman, Pierre Lebrun, Frank Cervelli, all these guys, Chris Johnson,

all the guys that do this, they would tell you the same thing. You, it's really hard to turn off. So you're at a family function, wedding, Christmas, whatever the case may be. You're there. You're just, you're constantly looking at your phone. You're, you're constantly thinking something's happening, I'm not aware of, or something does happen, and you have to chase it and, and get, you know, the information and try to make some sense of it. So there's no real getting away from it at all. And it becomes a little bit life consuming. So anyways, I'd done it for a long time, I enjoyed it, but I was kind of looking forward to that. So what I decided was there are some things I enjoy doing and, and they have a start time and

they have a finish time. So I could plot on a calendar on these days, I'm doing this, but on all the rest of the days, I'm not. And so now when I go, when I go to my son, Mike's house on Sunday, my wife and I, and we go to visit my son and his wife and the grandkids, if I want to leave my phone in the car, I can leave my phone in the car. I don't, I'm able, I'm able to live much more in the moment now or having dinner with friends or whatever. I just put the phone away and I don't worry about it. It's like, nothing's going to happen here that I need to distract from what I'm doing.

And that's the exact polar opposite of what, you know, what semi-retirement affords you to do. But there's things that I do the world junior championship. I'm going to get real busy here. Like for the better part of the next two months, I'm, I'm quite busy, but I'm fine with that. And because I know the days that I need to work and I know the days I don't need to work draft rankings I've always enjoyed doing the

draft and draft rankings and things like that so you know I know I've got a set aside when I'm going to be calling the scouts and crunching my numbers and doing my draft rankings but you know I'm not and I don't have to watch games at night if I don't want to not that there's any games to watch right now I don't have to make phone calls I don't have to watch games at night if I don't want to. Not that there's any games to watch right now. I don't have to make phone calls. I don't have to pull away from a family function because there might be a trade going on somewhere. That's semi-retirement. It sounds outstanding.

So congrats. Well-earned and well-earned. Do you have any idea of when you hit the switch and go into full retirement? Is this a five-year plan or have you thought that far ahead? it's kind of a five-year plan but it's a really loose five year plan because that's just the contract is for five years so i know what i'm doing with tsn for the next five years gotcha and then we'll you know you got to get there so i don't try not to take any day week month year for granted. And so, you know,

you can make plans for when you turn 69 or 70 or whatever, but you got to get there first. So it's just, you know, try and stay in the moment. You mentioned your son, Mike. He's the head coach and general manager of the Kitchener Rangers of the OHL. So first of all, you must be proud. You must be very proud of Mike. We'll get to Sean in a moment.

I know Sean a little better than Mike, but you must be very proud. My wife, Cindy, and I are very proud of both boys, Mike and Sean. And just because we like to think they turned out to be pretty good kids, they haven't caused us any heartache along the way which is nice um they're both off the family payroll now which is nice um and uh and you know and it's been very exciting to become grandparents wow and mike's got a little boy and

little girl both while the little girl blake just turned three the other day. And his son Gunnar is going to be 18 months on mid-December there. So he's got his hands full. But yeah, I'm proud of the work they've done and where they are with their careers. But mostly more than proud, just happy and relieved that they're both doing things. You did your job. They have a great passion for what they're doing and they're having the opportunity to do it. And anytime your kids are happy, as parents, you're happy. All right, real talk here, Bob.

I need the honest truth. Did you listen to Sean McKenzie's appearance on Toronto Mic'd? That's a good question. Well, the answer is no, because of the hesitation. No, no, no. You know what? No, I did listen to it, as a matter of fact. I did. Okay. I was always curious.

It seemed so long ago. And one of the things I was really good at in my whole life was a really good memory like almost photographic on a lot of things so when i was younger and somebody would say a name and and i'd say and right away i'd say to myself okay he played for the prince albert raiders from 82 to 84 and whatever and and now i find that a lot of stuff goes in and then out. And everybody, it's always been a running gag.

In fact, the Royal Canadian Air Force used to do a parody of myself. It was called Big Head Bob. And the joke was that they would make fun of Dave Hodge and myself. So they'd make fun of Dave for being, like, really low-key, and they made him, like, really old and, like, talk very slow, and he had, like, cobwebs hanging all over him. And then they would throw to Bob McKenzie on the hockey desk, and the guy who was playing me would have his head down on the desk

because it was too large to lift up. And so anyways, my point is, even though my head is large and I have had the ability to store an incredible amount of information, what I find now is I process something, and that's why when you asked me, I'm not kidding. I have to think real hard. Did I? Okay, Sean. Yeah, I did.

I did listen to that. Because there's a strange phenomenon happening with 2020 where this shutdown. In this basement, I had a guest on March 13th. In this basement, I had a guest on March 13th. And then like the next day here at TMDS, this great staff of me, myself and I, we decided no more guests in the basement. It's unsafe because of this pandemic, right, Bob?

But your son, Sean, was in this basement in 2020. So my brain has sort of forgot that there was like two and a half months of normalcy, if you will, until the middle of March. So it feels like a long time ago because it was the before times before COVID-19. But at least before we were conscious of it day to day. But it was 2020 when your son was here. I'm pretty sure. But it was a great appearance.

And I was always curious when I'm talking to Sean, will Bob hear this? Will he tune in? Yes. Yes, he did. And in fact, ahead of time, I coached him too on how to go about it. Only to the extent of, I said, Mike's really nice. He's really good. And he'll make you feel really comfortable. And it'll be a lot of fun.

And you'll really enjoy it. I said, but be ready because there's going to be some hard and pointed questions to come. And you got to be ready for those. He lulls you into a false sense of security and then he comes in with a boom. Don't let anyone else know my secret because that's actually the textbook. That's exactly what I do. I'm nice. You get comfy. You're

relaxed and then bam! So don't tell anyone else about my... You can tell your son but that's it. And we're very close to talking about your new book, uh, everyday hockey heroes, volume two. I got, I got a bunch of questions about it and it's great. But first, uh, I don't want to let this moment go by that you're talking to a guy in his mid forties. And because I'm in my mid forties,

my memories of Howie Meeker are such that I kind of know him as a figure around the game, but I don't, like I don't remember Howie Meeker on hockey night in Canada. Like, I just, just, I can't call it out. I've been trying to like,

it's like when people talk about, what's another example? There's a great, like I'll talk to Hebsey. I talk to Hebsey every week and he, you know, he, we talk about like,

let's say Daryl Sittler on the Leafs. And I, I try so hard, like, because I look at the years, Daryl Sittler was a Leaf and I'm like, and I cannot pull a memory of me seeing Daryl Sittler in a Maple Leaf jersey.

So I can't remember Howie Meeker, but could you spend a moment, because we just lost him at the age of 97, just telling people my age or younger about Howie Meeker? Howie Meeker was like a real McCoy. When you start talking, see, if you ever use the phrase, I've been told it's grammatically incorrect to say that somebody's really unique because once you say unique,

there's no grades of it. You're just unique. Right. It's like being really pregnant. But if there were the ability to put superlatives in front of uniqueness, that would be Howie. He did something that nobody had ever done before in hockey,

and he did it in such a way. So what he did that was different was that he really broke down the technical aspects of the game of hockey, like so much so that in theory, it never should have been appealing to a normal hockey fan who doesn't really care about, you know, if you were to use today's terminology, where F1 should go versus F2 versus F3 or, you know, a regroup or a reload or terminology like that. And how he had this ability to take a play and break it down and because he had this you know he was this adorable lovable irascible

newfie who who just had a great zest for life and a passion and and had a whole bunch of stuff, you know, Jiminy Crickets and, you know, this folksy sort of, you know, off-the-wall approach. He was able to combine an incredible understanding of the game and with, at the time, cutting-edge technology and video, but in such a homespun way and that even if you didn't know what he was talking about he was so damn entertaining and he was so opinionated you know for for former players or coaches the biggest you know the difficulty they have where they can't cross the Rubicon is criticism being critical and and and how he was look at this guy. He's brain dead.

He can't make that play. Come on. You're smarter than that. And do it in such a way that nobody would ever take offense. So he's just – I got to work with him at TSN in later years. And he was just a wonderful man. Oh, my goodness. He was so genuine. He was just the real deal. Thank you. Episode 750 When it's me The two birds

Episode 750. Man, what a milestone. We'll get back to my conversation with Bob McKenzie shortly. I just wanted to thank some partners that have helped make all this possible. Much love to Great Lakes Brewery. They're a local craft brewery that produces fresh craft beer here in southern Ontario. It's the beer of choice for everyone who enjoys the real talk. They're actually hiring drivers right now, so if you want to be a part-time driver, hit them up at greatlakesbeer.com. If Bob were in my backyard right now, I'd be

giving him some delicious Great Lakes beer and a frozen lasagna from Palma Pasta. Authentic Italian food that will leave you wondering why you waited so long to give it a try. food that will leave you wondering why you waited so long to give it a try. Go to palmapasta.com. They have four locations in the GTA, three in Mississauga, one in Oakville. They're amazing. You can thank me later. Stickeru.com.

That's where I get my Toronto Mike stickers and decals made up. Quality stickers, great price, great service. Wonderful Toronto business. They're located in Liberty Village. Go to stickeru.com. CDN Technologies are there if you should have any computer or network issues or questions. They're your outsourced IT department. Contact Barb today and get your network assessment. They'll review everything, the lay of the land,

and tell you what makes sense and what you could do better. No obligation to hire CDN Technologies as your IT department, but you really should. Barb is barb at cdntechnologies.com. You can call her at 905-542-9759. Joanne Glutish is a lifetime member of Royal LePage's Chairman's Club, which is the top 1% of Royal LePage for Canada. You're in good hands with Joanne. That's Joanne with a capital A, which I just love. And I'm going to let FOTM Sheila tell you how Joanne can help you today. So whether you're looking to buy your first home,

move up, purchase an income property, help your parents sell the house they've been in for 40 years, or just have your questions answered, visit her at joanneglutish.com and then give her a call. Thank you, Sheila, and thank you, Joanne. This year's Holidays in Hope Candlelight Service of Remembrance will be a live online event. You're invited to join the good people at Ridley Funeral Home

to receive comforting messages, enjoy live music, and reflect on your loved one's life and legacy. It's Wednesday, December 2nd at 7 p.m. It's Wednesday, December 2nd at 7 p.m. To attend, simply RSVP to 416-259-3705 or contact us at RidleyFuneralHome.com. Now back to Bob. I mean, you know, it's one of those things where you're, you're, you're sorry to hear how he make your past away,

but you're glad he got to live a full 97 years. So he did, he did quite well for himself. World Junior Hockey Championship. You mentioned your work in this. So you mentioned you're going to be really busy. It starts on Christmas, right? Christmas Day, actually. We're going to have to go out earlier. Some of the guys are going out as early as December 15th. Go ahead.

I was going to say, and it's Edmonton, right? Just to clarify where you're going. It's going to be in a bubble in Edmonton. It was supposed to be Edmonton Red Derricks fans. Now it's Edmonton with no fans. And some of the guys have to go out. I think Gord Miller is going out on mid-December.

As soon as you get there, before you go, you've got to have a seven-day period where you're tested three times and you have three negative tests. You fly to Edmonton, you land, you go right to your hotel room and you have to quarantine for 96 hours so four days and you have to have three negative tests during they come to your room and test you and then once you do that then you're released into the bubble and then you can go and work and with canada playing pre-tournament games on like the 19th or 20th in order to do those games you need to be there for december 15th or thereabouts um i'm i'm going out on i believe on the 19th and i'll be eligible and available to start work on christmas day and uh we won't spend

too much time on this because i know you'll be doing this over the next couple of months but uh what are canada's chances this year? Well, they're always good. They're at a severe disadvantage insofar as some of the European countries, their kids have been playing. You know, whether it's Sweden, Finland, Russia, Czech, not so much in Switzerland and Germany, although some of them have. But the point is that, you know, outside of the Quebec league, which has been kind of cobbled, trying to cobble together some hockey, the OHL,

the WHL hasn't been playing college hockey hasn't been playing. And there's some Canadian kids there, but they're, they're getting close to starting it up. But that's why Canada is having an extended camp. It starts here in the next few days and red deer, and they're going to try, but you know, it's the same deal every year, Canada, the U S Sweden, but it's the same deal every year. Canada, the US, Sweden, Finland, and the Russians,

those five hockey powers, any one of them can win the gold medal at any time. And I haven't dove into your analysis yet. Are there any Maple Leaf prospects that could possibly play in this tournament? I don't have anything here in front of me, but yeah, Nick Robertson, Toronto Maple Leafs second rounder, who we saw in the playoffs or whatever they were called, the qualifier against Columbus.

He's scheduled to be on the U.S. team. The Leafs first rounder, Rodion Amirov, the Russian kid, he's played very well in the KHL this year. He should be on the Russian World Junior team. Without giving it much thought, there's two that come immediately to mind.

Jop, if you don't mind, give me a couple of Canadians that we should keep a close eye on in this tournament. Well, if all goes according to plan, the Chicago Blackhawks have released Kirby Dock, who played last season in the NHL, full season in the NHL, as an 18-year-old. And this is his last year of junior eligibility. So it'll be fascinating to see him if he gets a chance to play for Canada here.

But Chicago has said they're going to release him as long as the dates work. We haven't heard yet what the NHL dates are. Quinton Byfield will be another one. I mean, the LA King first rounder, second overall in the draft. And he's a kid. He struggled at the World Juniors last year

to kind of make his mark. And he could well dominate it this year. The same way Alexi Lafreniere struggled a couple of years ago. And then last year, he was the best player in the tournament. Right. Okay, exciting. I always love that tournament. So I'll be watching.

And safe travels. And I hope... I mean, that bubble for the NHL, I think that worked perfectly according to plan. Like they drew it on the board. And here's hoping we have just as much success with this junior tournament bubble. So, looking forward to it.

Now, okay, I want to talk about everyday heroes, sorry, everyday hockey heroes. We'll talk about everyday heroes later, but everyday hockey heroes. As a fan of hockey, and just a person who kind of monitors everything, it felt like a rough year for hockey, like in terms of stories. There was, I i mean i won't revisit all of it but there was some uh you know we had the don cherry poppy thing and then there was uh the the woman the young woman on the social

who talked about the hockey culture in her small town and basically there weren't a lot of great hockey stories uh the last in my my opinion over the the last year. So is that, is that like, is that part of the reason why you put together this collection of everyday hockey heroes to kind of shine a light on, you know, the positive side of hockey in this country? Um, yes and no. Um, and, and, and, and chronicling the year you're talking about, and obviously a year where with Breonna Taylor and George Floyd

and Black Lives Matter, he had the Billy Peters situation with the racial slurs that he used with Akeem Ali in the past and lots of coaches who were guilty of doing abusive things to players at various levels and and all of that so um so yeah the point you make is valid about this book is is a great book in my mind because it tackles a lot of those issues kind of head on in a lot of ways and it's not saying hockey culture is great, but it's not saying that hockey culture is not salvageable either. Right. Or that there's elements of hockey culture that are really strong and,

and, you know, but it wasn't in response to any, this book obviously wasn't in response to any of those things that have happened in the past year. Because we obviously did the same thing two years ago. Well, when the book from its inception was really three years ago, when Simon & Schuster first came to me with the idea, they were already down the road a little bit with Jim Lang and Sarah St. Pierre, the editor on, on a book like that, that, you know,

for them would be reaffirming, inspiring stories set against the backdrop of hockey. But I think this everyday hockey heroes volume two because of what happened in the past year i don't think there's any doubt that it maybe made things a little more laser focused for me anyways uh in terms of some of the issues and the the introduction of the book specifically talks about what you just brought up, and that is hockey culture. And when you say hockey culture now, there's a lot of people who recoil and say, oh, that's really bad. That's really bad. It's toxic. It's racist. It's homophobic. It's exclusive, not inclusive. To which I would say, yes, no doubt at times it is.

It has been and it continues to be. But as I say in the introduction, for me, I think we get a little too bent out of shape trying to put a brand on hockey culture. Because for me, hockey culture is culture, society. So tell me society is exactly where we want it to be right now. I think if you watched anything that's unfolded over the last year or four years in particular in the U S you know, society is not where we want it to be. And then, but, and that, and then, and then a lot of people will say, burn it down, burn it all down. Right. And I understand the euphemism of burn it down which is

you know historically going back um you burn something down to make you know it regenerates you burn a forest down burn burn grass and it comes back even greener and richer and better than it was before so i understand the euphemism but there's also another euphemism for me and that is if you if you say hockey culture is like this house and the foundation's rotten burn it all down well then everything in the house gets burnt down and there's so many good things about hockey culture right you got to salvage and save and embrace and celebrate so i think you've got to be selective and understand that yeah do we need to do a much better job in hockey culture of being inclusive and not being racist

and not being homophobic and being more diverse and understanding and all those things? A hundred percent, yes. But, you know, are there a lot of really embraceable qualities that you want to build on and say, yeah, absolutely. And so that for me is kind of the yin and the yang of this book. Now, that first chapter you alluded to, you wrote that first chapter, it's literally called Black and White and very interesting. You know, it leads us off in Everyday Hockey Heroes. And again, I know people should buy this book to read it or give it to a loved one who loves hockey or great stories.

And it's available now, I'll point out. And I'm going to have a question in a minute about Jimmy Lang, because I know you work closely with him on this project. But tell us a little bit more about Black and White, Chapter 1. Well, first off, I should tell you that if you don't want to buy the book and you want to read that chapter, it's a freebie. You can go to simonandschuster.ca and there's a book excerpt there. And the whole first chapter is there for anybody who wants to read it.

Simonschuster.ca in Canada, simonschuster.com in the United States, but it's all there. Listen, the format of the book is that they're all first-person stories except for one chapter, and that one chapter is the one that I write. So in Everyday Hockey Heroes Volume 1, I did a story on a guy by the name of Kevin Brown, who almost lost his life officiating a hockey game in Woodstock, Ontario, and his battle back from that. And that was the last chapter of everyday hockey heroes, volume one. So this year, um, uh, everyday hockey heroes, volume two, I've got the first chapter and my,

the chapter that I write is not a first person, uh, chapter. Jimmy Lang does a great job of talking to all these other people who we decided we wanted to put in this book and formulating, uh, uh, a first person story with that person and does a great job along with our great editor Sarah St. Pierre so anyways late last fall I was thinking what do I want to do for my chapter what do what what resonates with me right now and I had a bunch of different ideas and and then I thought well you know what there was a really good story on Wayne Simmons in Volume 1 of Everyday Hockey Heroes. And Wayne, of course, is a black NHL player who comes from Scarborough, Ontario, which is where I grew up.

And it was a really cool story about the hurdles he had to overcome to make it to the National Hockey League as a black kid in Scarborough. And I started thinking about where I'm from, Scarborough. And I started thinking about, wow, you know what? Scarborough, I grew up in a Scarborough that was quite white in the 1960s. I was born in 1956. So I played minor hockey there in the 60s and 70s. Is this the Mike Myers Scarborough that we kind of know, the Mike Myers Scarborough?

You got it. As I said in the story, Mike Myers is one of the most famous Scarbarians of all time. And I said, you don't really think that Wayne's World was set in Aurora, Illinois, do you? It was in Scarborough, Ontario. So anyways, I started giving some thought to Scarborough and how it's become one of the most racially diverse communities in all of Canada and I started thinking that it must have the unofficial record of putting more black players in the national hockey league than than any other community and you know Mike Marzen who was born in 55 the year before me um and then you've got Anson Carter, Kevin Weeks, the Stewart brothers, Anthony

and Chris the list goes on and on. Ten of them, soon to be 11, because Akeel Thomas, who got the game winning goal for Canada at the World Junior Championship last year, is also a proud Scarberian. So anyways, I started thinking about all of that. And I started thinking to when I played and I go, wow, when I played, there weren't very many black kids who played. But there were two that I remembered in particular from my age group. One was a really tall, gangly kid that was so much taller than everybody else. And the other was a much shorter kid, but really strong, powerful, and athletic. And I remembered them for a number of reasons. Number one, the obvious one is because they were black in a mostly white game. Let's not kid anybody. Number two, they were really good hockey players. I wasn't, I was well below average.

They were well above average. They were amongst the top percentiles in the in the 1956 born age group. And and I remember them too, because of their names. One was Terry Mercury and one was Lindonzalez and those are memorable names and um i started thinking wow wouldn't it be cool wouldn't it be interesting to maybe talk go back and find these guys see what they're doing now and talk to them about our shared experience of playing minor hockey and quite white scarborough in the 60s and find out how much compare and contrast their experiences with

my experiences and that's what I did and so it was pretty easy to track down Terry and and Lindbergh and they were gracious enough to sit down for a few hours with me right around the time things were starting to get it was literally we had stuff set up for the week or two around when the NHL and the NBA shut down. So I was still able to go and do a socially distanced interview with them and spend some time with them. And they were fantastic. It was so illuminating and enlightening. and what I could tell from talking to them and which they made no bones about after the fact and especially after they read the finished product, they needed to get some things off their chest.

And I think it was a really cathartic experience for them. And it was an eye-opening and illuminating experience for me as well. You know, it's a great start to the book. And it's interesting to hear that people can kind of read that before they head off to Indigo or Costco or wherever they're going to pick up a copy of the book, that they can read that for free. Now, and it's also kind of neat that Wayne Simmons is a Toronto Maple Leaf. So how about that?

It's amazing. It's terrific. And I think it'll be really good for the Leafs. And I think it'll be really good for the Leafs. And I think it'll be really good for him too. He's just got to cross his fingers and stay healthy. That's the key for Wayne at this. Because he plays such a hard game. And it's hard to maintain that when you've gotten beaten up.

Your body's gotten beaten up over the years, the way the players who play like Wayne go. So I'm hoping great things for Wayne because we always like to see all the Scarberians do well. You know, I'm in the west end of the city and I grew up... Yes.

Yeah, but so the guy we signed, this name, even saying this name now, it's like embracing myself, but we were very excited that Mimico's own David Clarkson became a Toronto Maple Leaf. So I'm just going to put it out into the universe that I hope

Wayne Simmons' career as a Toronto Maple Leaf is far more, is far healthier and more successful and productive than poor David Clarkson's experience. I hope so too, and again, the injuries were a factor for poor David, and you can always hang your hat on Brendan Shanahan, although at least you've got do better but you know if you're gonna go the Mimico route you're

not gonna get a better poster boy from Mimico than Shanahan oh yeah absolutely although there's a mural near where I live where they celebrate they call it the Lakeshore Village people so it's not village people and I just realized so it's not just Mimico it's like New Toronto Mimico and Long Branch and the the only hockey player that made the mural, and he's hoisting the Stanley Cup, it's not Brendan Shanahan, but Dave Boland. He made the mural. And I always thought, I like Dave being there.

He's a Mimico institution himself. But Shani seems like an omission. We've got to get him on this. I was just going to say, what about people from Swansea? Do they not get on there? No, that's too far. That's the other side of the Humber River. Once you cross the Humber River, once you're east of the Humber River,

you don't get to go on this mural. All right. David Boland, by the way, is the same age as my son, Mike. They played hockey and lacrosse against each other growing up. We had great rivalries. The Whippy-Mimico rivalry was fantastic. I shouldn't admit this with any sense of glee whatsoever, but nevertheless,

there might've been some bench clearing brawls in like Bantam lacrosse. I'll say, well, I'll say people are listening from other parts of Toronto. They don't realize that when you do, cause I, I didn't grow up in Mimico. I do live next door now,

but when I moved to this hood, it's amazing how big lacrosse is. It's like, wait a minute, I grew up not too far from here and it's like a whole different... It's a little subculture of absolutely. Brian Shanahan's done a great job down there. Brendan's brother and Mimico's.

It's always been a lacrosse hotbed it's it's fantastic very yeah very very very interesting and uh i want to ask about jim langs and you and how you work so so a fun fact of sorts that we have to rectify at some point is that when the pandemic i mentioned that i had a guest from the toronto star a guy named david rider he was here march 13th the next guest i think on the next Monday, so this would have been, what, 14, 15, like for March 16th that I had to cancel, was Jim Lang. So he is in the calendar to visit this basement.

I think it was March 16th. I have to check it out, but it was that week for sure. And at that point I was, you know, busy pivoting. So we postponed it. You got preempted. Something bigger than all of us showed up and I hadn't yet moved to the backyard, and I had some things to work out.

But what was it like working with Jim Lang on this? It's absolutely awesome. He's so great to work with. And that's the other really gratifying part. The finished product is great, and I'm really proud. We're all really proud of the book, myself, Jim, Sarah St. Pierre. We're really proud of the stories in here. we're really proud of the work that we did and we're proud of the sort of the theme of the book because i think it's an important one um

but it makes it so enjoyable to um to work with people who are so invested and so good at what they do and so amenable and so easy to get along with like sarah's actually not that easy to get along with she's a copy editor you've never met a copy editor who i hate copy editors because they just make your life hell they why did you say it this way or what about this what about this you couldn't you say that shouldn't this be up here shouldn't that be down there and you're like hey don't mess with my art. But when it's all done, you look at it and go, wow, this is such a better story because she's such a good editor. But it really is a collaborative effort.

So right from the get-go, we sit down together. We say, who's going to be in the book? Jim's got names that he wants in the book. Sarah's got names that she wants in the book. I've got names I want in the book. We bounce them back and forth. We constantly have a constant dialogue in group chats and what have you as we make progress or have setbacks or can't do this person. They don't want to do it or this person's in.

They're going to do it. We're excited. Yay. Can you give me a picture of this person? So the three of us work really well together. And that makes the experience that much more enjoyable and uh in addition to yours we talked about your uh your story black and white uh i see at least 14 other stories and it runs the gamut you got jack

chablonski uh he had a life-changing spinal cord injury at the age of 16 but it didn't stop him from being a part of the game and then lgbtq players like jessica platt and they're breaking down barriers to uh to the woman uh so just some fantastic stories here and uh if people are looking to buy it do you care where they buy it or you just want them to pick it up somewhere just just buy it but do so safely i always like to be responsible well of course you know you know hey listen i think we've all adapted and we realize that Just buy it, but do so safely. I always like to be responsible. Well, of course. You know, hey, listen, I think we've all adapted and we realize that you got to go out and get groceries

and you got to go out and do some shopping and try to maintain some semblance of normalcy without putting yourself or your family in harm's way. So, yeah, so it's Costco and Walmart and all all those places indigo um the great thing now is you can shop online and i think indigo has got it for 25 bucks and i think it's even five bucks cheaper at costco if you want to actually venture out and uh and do that so yeah there's no shortage of places to get it and uh whether it's the hard copy you're holding in your hand or an ebook it's easily accessible everywhere and of course uh it's a great it's a great copy you're holding in your hand or an e-book, it's easily accessible everywhere.

And of course, it's a great gift for the hockey fan on your gift list this holiday season. So how's that for a pitch there? But I want to point something out. Thank you. This is an interesting thing I observed. So I'm sure this is not going to be on Sarah's shoulders, and it definitely wouldn't be you and Jim who did this. But I just want to point something out. This is fun.

Don't worry. At the beginning of the book, there's a couple of pages they call it praise for everyday hockey heroes and there's like interesting people's quotes about this book brian burke peter mansbridge uh the wealthy barber who called me recently by the way sheldon kennedy ken reed dave bed, who's been on the show. And then James Duthie, who's been on Toronto Mike. So here's what I observed. Okay. James Duthie, TSN hockey host, you know, nicest guy you'd ever want to meet, right? He's on the first page and his quote says, these heartwarming stories illustrate the power hockey has to unite us and inspire us to be the best we can be. Great quote from the great James Duthie.

That's on page one. Okay. I turned the page. I'm just laughing because thankfully it's on again. Okay. I just noticed that because I was looking at the second page as you read that. I said, oh, you can tell. Remember you warned your son that I'm going to, you know, somebody's getting fired.

I want, I want somebody fired for this. But just to be clear to everyone, on the second page of, it's like, that was so good, James Duthie's quote. You printed it twice. It's also on the second page. Once again, James Duthie, these heartwarming stories illustrate the power hockey has. You know why we did? You know why? That was probably intentional because we knew that James Duthuffy has his book out right now, Beauties.

Right. And so we probably wanted people to remember that James Duffy likes our book better than his own book. So that's probably why it's there twice. You mentioned earlier, coincidentally, you mentioned earlier Bush and you pointed out it's Bush. It wasn't Bush X. And that hits me because i was a big fan of the bush x bush and of course they had to be they issued a bunch of cds as bush and i picked one up so originally it came out in canada as bush then they had to issue it as bush x because there was a someone else had the name bush and they had to work out that whatever compensate whatever so and i was

that was my the bush that I grew up with in Toronto on the bar scene. So already it's all coming together perfectly. So I was quite proud. It was called 16 Stone, this album, the Bush X one. And I loved it. And I had the copy that came out before they reissued it as Bush X. And I actually felt some

pride that, hey, you suckers that got the Bush X. Mine says Bush. This is almost like a collector's item. This is Bush, no X. But then they worked it out with your Bush that you're referring to, and they reissued it again as Bush. So they took away your mystery.

Right. So in the same vein, if you rush out right now, get your butt to Costco or buy online, do what it takes to get your butt to Costco or buy online, you know, do what it takes to get this book, but be safe. Get the copy that has James Duthie twice in the praise. That's going to be worth a mint at some point.

It is. And my similar story to that is, although it has a tinge of, more than a tinge of tragedy to it, is that Lynyner issued a, an album. I want to say it was street survivors. And I bought the album as soon as it came out. And it's a picture of the band on the front and they're,

they're walking through a wall of flames. And not long after that album was released, they had a fiery plane crash. And the record company reissued the album without the flames on the front. But I've got the original with the flames. Yeah, definitely a tragic tinge, but the same kind of same spirit there.

Absolutely, absolutely. So Bob, you've done this great book. Congrats to you and Jim Lang and Sarah, who I, I, I would love to meet one day. Well, I met Jim Lang. I would have her on Jim Lang. I've only met him once. It's, I went to Maple Leaf Gardens when the new Maple Leaf Gardens, that's on top of the grocery store. Yeah. Because I heard my, my hockey hero, Wendell Clark was going to be there. And I got an invitation because, you know, I'm a member of the media, Bob.

And I excitedly biked over to meet Wendell. I'm like, I'm finally going to meet Wendell Clark was going to be there. I got an invitation because I'm a member of the media, Bob. I excitedly biked over to meet Wendell. I'm like, I'm finally going to meet Wendell Clark. Jim was there too because Jim had helped Wendell with his book, Bleeding Blue. There's my one encounter with Jim Lang. Maybe we'll close with this.

NHL season, I'm reading about the All-Canadian Division. What is Bob McKenzie, what is your take about the all-Canadian division. So what is Bob McKenzie, what is your take on the all-Canadian division and when do you think this NHL season begins? Okay, first off, let me say that Jim Lang, like you, is prolific. So you've done like 750 of these, which is incredible. I think Jim has written 750 books.

Wow. That's how many books he's written. I haven't even read 750 books. Wow. That's how many books. I haven't even read 750 books. No, he's written that many easily, if not more. I wouldn't be surprised. Anyways, as far as the thing goes, I'm more hockey outsider than insider now. Right. But I think, when does this podcast get posted?

I'm going to have it up in like 20 minutes. Okay. So by noon today. I think all this week there have been meetings between the NHL and NHLPA, and they're trying to nail down return to play in January sometime. We don't have dates yet, but they're not going to be able to bubble it up the way they did before. They're looking at hubs.

And as you mentioned, the all Canadian division becomes a necessity because the border's closed. And so it wouldn't be practical to have Vancouver and Edmonton and Calgary trying to go to LA, San Jose, and Anaheim. So anyways, there'll be a Canadian division likely. And they're going to work on a hub system where the the rink would function very similar to what they did with the bubble the hotel would function somewhat similar they can't lock it down

the same way but they are going to try and get a designated hotel in the designated hub city and there would be one for each division and and the teams would for those divisions would cycle in and out you know spend 10-12 days in the hub and in that time play six seven games and then cycle back out to their home city for a week or two of practice and then cycle back in and by cycling you know half the teams in the division through at one time and the other half at the other time. They could get this back and forth of consistent hockey being played in a central location, four central locations, plenty of hockey for television, none for the fans just yet, and do that until such time that they have the ability

to safely put some fans in the stands and start creating some revenue. Here, I'll close with this, Bob. Work with me here. I think this is going to work out well. Okay, so this is episode 750. Big milestone episode. Forever you can tell people I was episode 750. You can take that forever. On the date that is the 75th birthday of the great Neil Young, one of my musical heroes. Today is his 75th birthday. This is episode 750. I know. And I know we talked earlier about The Hip and we talked about Pearl Jam,

but God, I love Neil Young. Yes. So 75th birthday today, episode 750 for his 75th. And I will leave you with this, Bob. Long may you run. Awesome. I love Long May You Run. Even though it's about a car,

let's pretend it's about a great hockey broadcaster. Well, exactly. And I saw Neil, I've seen Neil Young about five or six times in concert, Madison Square Garden, Maple Leaf Gardens. Love Neil. Fantastic. And I drive,

I live not too far from Omimi, Ontario. And there's a great mural on the wall of the Legion. And Neil Young, obviously that was his home. Scott Young is home, his dad. And you probably own some Scott Young books as a younger man.

Boy at Leaf Camp, Scrubs on Skates, Spill Sponska. I loved it. I read those books to Mike and Sean when they were little kids and can't wait to read them to Mike's kids. And you could almost draw a line to say, if it wasn't for Neil Young's dad, maybe you're not writing books today about hockey. Yeah, that's probably true.

Work with me, Bob. It's all part of the story. It is true. And I did get an opportunity once to, uh, to talk to Scott Young. So, uh,

that was a career highlight as well. Thanks for this, Bob episode seven 50. Couldn't have gone better. I loved it. We got to do this again sometime. Anytime you got it. I'll come back only if I'm a number of thousand.

Well, you got to come back. Cause that's how you, that's how you get the beer and the lasagna. Like I can't give it to you via zoom. So you got to come back. I was just going to say, I was just going to say you get the beer and the lasagna. I can't give it to you via Zoom, so you got to come back for episode 1,000. I was just going to say, you owe me beer. Definitely. I didn't get lasagna the first time. Yeah, that's a newer thing. But yeah, I think your son got lasagna. So Sean, he didn't cut you in, I guess, on that action. But I got

lasagna and beer for you next time you come. And hopefully we can do it for episode 1,000. Thanks, Bob. Sounds great. Thanks, Mike. do it for episode 1000. Thanks, Bob. Sounds great. Thanks, Mike. And that brings us to the end of our 750th show. You can follow me on

Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Bob is at TSN Bob McKenzie. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies.

Joanne Glutish is at J Glutish. G-L-U-D-I-S-H. And Ridley Funeral Home is at Ridley F-H. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started. I haven't known you Oh, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and gray

Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Won't stay today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Because everything is Rose and green Well I've been told

That there's a sucker born Every day But I wonder who Yeah I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades Of green Cause I know that's true Yes I do Maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of gray. Cause I know that's true, yes I do.

I know it's true, yeah. I know it's true. How about you? All that picking up trash and then putting down ropes. And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn because

Everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine And it won't go away Because everything is rosy and gray Well, I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places

I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and green

Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms us today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy and

Everything is rosy and gray Thank you.