Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Bob Rae: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1511

Episode Date: June 26, 2024

In this 1511th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Canadian Ambassador to the United Nations Bob Rae about his years as a young Liberal supporter, switching to the NDP and becoming Ontario's 21st premier, his return to the Federal Liberal Party and more. And yes, we talk about the Conservative Party's byelection victory in Toronto and what that means for Justin Trudeau. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada, The Yes, We Are Open podcast from Moneris, The Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball Team and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1511 of Toronto Miked! Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta! Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. The Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team! The best baseball in the city outside the dome! Join me July 7th at Christie Pitts I'm recording live at 2pm. RecycleMyElectronics.ca Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Season 6 of Yes We Are Open, an award-winning

Monaris podcast hosted by FOTM Al Greggo and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto mic debut, is the Canadian ambassador to the United nations and the 21st premier of this fine province, Bob Ray. Welcome Bob. Thank you so much. It's great to be with you. I want to thank somebody right off the top who connected us. And I think kind of made this happen, but I want to thank Steve Paykin. Steve Paykin was given the assignment.

Can you get Bob Ray in the basement? And Steve made it happen. So shout out to Steve Paykin. Yeah. I saw Steve yesterday. We did a thing at TVO for Peter Herndorf and who was a guy that I appointed to be the head of TVO for seven years and he did a fantastic job and he hired Steve so There's been that long No, no exactly. Exactly. Right. But anyway, he's a good friend.

So it's, I'm delighted to be with you. And I don't even know where to go with you. I'm going to try to keep this down to 50 minutes, but you're a very interesting man, Bob Ray. And I think there's so many different threads I could pull out and we could do several hours, but you've got a crazy schedule. How long are you in town for? I'm here very briefly. I had an event, well, yesterday with Steve for Peter Erendorf and I've got a crazy schedule. How long are you in town for? Uh, here very briefly. I'm, I had an event yesterday with Steve for Peter Erendorf and I've got an event

tonight, I'm speaking to the advocate society about 1600 lawyers I'm told will be gathered at the Royal York hotel and I'll be speaking to them. Uh, and then I've got some meetings tomorrow and Friday, so busy days. And then I'm heading out to the, like many, many Ontarians going to the cottage on the weekend and then I'll be going back down to New York next week. So it's been a whirlwind trip. It's a whirlwind trip. And I have three daughters here and six grandchildren in town. So it's, it's a lot of family time

as well. And I want to just tell you that my grandson Solomon, um, got a baseball at the Maple Leafs game at Christie Pitts two weeks ago. That's great to hear. I think that was Father's Day, right? Yeah, he was there with his dad and my son-in-law and yeah, he was very proud. He phoned me right on the phone right away and he said, I hear you caught some ball. I said, well I caught a couple of balls in Exhibition Stadium when the Blue Jays used to play there and I still still got them, still got them at the house. So amazing. Now the coach of that Toronto Maple Leafs team is Rob Butler,

who won a world series with the Jays in 93. Yeah, great guy. Absolutely. Great guy. And much like yourself, a Rob Butler and Steve Paken, they're FOTMs. That means friends of Toronto Mike. Bob, you're now an FOTM. So you can add that to your extensive bio. Glad to, glad to be here. I'll put it, I'll put it on my, I'll have, you know, the way they have it, you're now an FOTM, so you can add that to your extensive bio. Glad to be here. I'll put it on my... You know, the way they have it, you know, like a member of the Royal Society of Canada or something. They have those big initials after your name. I'll put FOTM.

People say, what the hell is that? I'll say, no. You know, if you don't know, you don't need to know. Those who know, know. Just touching those. Hey, you got this crazy schedule, but I'm gonna throw something else at you, which is that you are invited to Great Lakes Brewery in South Etobicoke tomorrow night. That's Thursday, June 27th from six to nine p.m.

because I'm having TMLX 15, which is a free event. Your first beer from Great Lakes is on the house and Palma Pasta will feed you. Bob Ray, you're invited. Thank you for the invitation. Don't think I'll be able to join you, but I see there's some beer on my table here. Not bad, yeah. You can take that, right? I was wondering, can the Canadian ambassador to the UN accept such luxurious gifts?

Yes, I think they're under the limit, as they say. I won't tell you what the limit is, but it's well under the limit, so it's fine. Okay, and that Toronto Maple Leafs baseball, maybe Solomon would love it. It's going with you to give it, you can keep it yourself. No, I'll give it to Solomon. No, but I'll keep it and I'll give it's fine. Okay and that Toronto Maple Leafs baseball maybe Solomon would love it it's going with you to give it you can keep it yourself. I'll give it to Solomon no but I'll keep it and I'll give it to Solomon okay turning into a baseball fan. Okay and last but not least when before I press record you saw Bruce Dobigan and Evan Dobigan's name on a book and I'm curious are you friendly with the Dobigans? I know Bruce well and I think I would say our political views have become unaligned.

Right. He was radicalized when he moved to Calgary. Something happened that's for sure but no I I remember Bruce when he started out on CBC radio on Metro Morning and I really enjoyed his his approach and and we we've had we have mutual friends so I've been Bruce and I have known each other for a long time. Well, one mutual friend would be the aforementioned Steve Pagan. Yes. They're good. Absolutely.

They had a show on the fan back in the double play or something like that. So that book is yours as well. Thank you. They self-published a book called Deal With It, which is about the best NHL trades of all time. And you get a lot of swag here, my friend. Yeah, that's right. Well, it's all

under the limit as they say, but it looks good. Good to hear. Now where do I begin? I'm gonna begin here because I got a lot of notes about it, so let's just drink this in for a moment and then I'll ask you about this and then we'll get serious. I'm standing next to the mighty Ottawa River for centuries. This was the treacherous route taken by generations of fur traders and loggers and today I reenact part of that route with someone who has a far more treacherous job ahead of them selling Stephane Dion to English Canada. That's a good line.

Bob Ray joins me now. Hello Bob. Hey Rick, how are you? I am good sir. Fully clothed. Good to know. I'm in my post nude phase. How about you?

So am I. Let's get on the river. You ready? I'm all ready to go. Okay, let's do it. So Bob, have you ever done any white water canoeing? Well, I've been at a liberal convention. Is that the same? Are these lines scripted for you? I need to know, Bob. No, not at all. These are off the cuff. Okay, you're a funny guy. This is totally spontaneous. I have this thing with Rick where, uh, we just hit it off right. The first time we ever met, we just totally hit it off.

And, uh, every time I see him, it's, I feel the same way about him. We just connect so well. And I've, I've done, I think, I think I did two shows that were listed of like my shows with him. And then I did one with a couple of others that involved other people, but we just had a great time. And I got to tell you the, that show, there's a second one, right, the first one was the famous leap into the lake.

The skinny dipping. The skinny dipping episode. Right. And after that one, I had a major heart operation in 2007, I think it was, and Rick phoned me, I met at the end of August, Rick phoned me in September, said, where are you? I said, I think it was. And Rick phoned me, I met at the end of August, Rick phoned me in September, he said, why are you, I said, I'm at the cottage.

He said, everybody thinks you're dead. I said, I know I'm not dead, I'm fine, I'm actually recovering. He said, well, we're gonna go for a gentle paddle on the Ottawa River, and would you like to do that? I said, sure. And Arlene was like, what are you doing? Like, this is three weeks after you've had your open heart surgery and you've been under the anesthetic for six hours

Like what the hell are you thinking and we went out? Of course, I got there drove myself as I did driving up to your studio today drove myself to the banks of the Ottawa River Of course We were right next to a major rapids and we were gonna be kayaking which I'd done Of course, we were right next to a major rapids and we were gonna be kayaking which I'd done Gentle kayaking on the lake, but this was new to me. So it was a high-risk op show and but it was totally spontaneous and Completely enjoyable. I think in fact, it's a better episode even than the first one because it has a reprise of the first one So if you want to see the whole thing you get it by watching that second show Yeah, it's a reprise of the first one. So if you want to see the whole thing, you get it by watching that second show. Yeah, it's a great one. So shout out to, uh, well shout out to Rick Mercer

also on FOTM, but Bob, Bob Willett wanted me to ask you if you've been, have you been skinny dipping lately? Like have you skinny dipped since that recording with Rick Mercer? I skinny dip every summer. I have a cottage, so yeah, it's a, it's a, but you know, I've got to be, gotta be a little more discreet as, as, as my daughters have grandchildren and you know, we've got to be a little more discreet as my daughters have grandchildren and you know, we all have children. We all have, you know, we don't want, you know, Papa to go nuts. You don't want to traumatize anybody. No, no, I don't want to offend anybody.

So I have to be careful. Well, Al Grego, who has a gift for you too, I'll give that to you after the statement, but he says, ask him if he's tired of being asked about the skinny dipping with Rick Mercer. Like does it ever get tired that, oh, here it goes again? The funny thing is is that it takes me by surprise because I'm going through the airport with Arlene sometimes and somebody will come up and say, you know, Bob, this first time I've ever seen you with your clothes on.

And of course, one time I got on Air Canada flight and the steward of the Air Canada flight said, hey Bob, nice ass. I said, what? You're not gonna, it's gonna be the first line in your bio when you pass away in 50 years. I mean, the funny thing about that episode, that experience was it was like the shows

I always do with Rick, completely spontaneous. Had no staff with me. They would have immediately vetoed this concept. In the middle of a leadership race, and I do this thing, and after it's over, and I come home and tell Arlene, and my sister, my mother, what I'd done, they said, you're crazy, like what are you thinking? And one of my friends said,

that Bob, that's the end of your career, like no one is gonna take you seriously anymore at anything. And I said, oh God, I don't know. And then I, um, I said to my mom, please watch the show. And she watched it and she phoned me up right away. She said it was hysterical and look, I mean, it's Canada. Nobody takes offense at this thing. We don't take ourselves that seriously. And I mean, skinny dipping is a great Canadian tradition. I mean, it's, even though this was in October, Wow.

And like in the Killarney Park. So it was, but luckily I love Killarney. Yeah. It was great park. Great. Great time. Now I got to just point out, like you pointed out as well, uh, that, you know, I kind of thought you'd have maybe a little mini entourage or something, because I'm used to people like yourself coming over. Although shout out to Kathleen Wynn who dropped by a couple of months ago and just, just kind of, you know, and she's not an active politician, but she just kind of came in the side door and,

and nobody was with her. But for some reason I thought you might have a handler or a driver, but you just drive yourself here and here you are in South Etobicoke. Yeah, high risk. Well, I know South Etobicoke well, I used to campaign here. I mean, Etobicoke Lakeshore was a constituency that we won provincially with Ruth Greer years ago and she's a fantastic

friend. Um, she and her husband lived not too far from here. Okay. And, uh, yeah, we, uh, campaigned together here. So I, and I've seen the changes in the topical quite extraordinary on the lake shore and you know, the factory's gone and all the new housing,

right? It's a total transformation down here. Yeah. The Campbell soup factory's gone. There's a lot of big changes, but I noticed a Mimico changing rapidly, growing rapidly, long branch growing rapidly, new Toronto, where you are right now is kind of stuck in a little time warp here, but don't ever change. It's delightful. Well, you've got a tremendous studio here with the, you know, all the

lighting and the fantastic windows. You can see a view of the lake from here. It's really terrific. It's really wonderful. I mean, I should tell people it's just extraordinary. It could be blizz, it can see a view of the lake from here. It's really terrific. It's really wonderful. I mean, I should tell people, it's just extraordinary. It could be a blizzard outside, we'd be oblivious. Yeah, I think that's right. I think this is built for a nuclear attack or something. Well, you'll be safe down here. We need somebody to lead this country.

Okay. So many places to go. Again, many people had questions. Brian C says, ask Bob how he has such an amazing memory to remember people by their names. I met him in Montreal once nearly ten years after I first met him for his first nomination for broadview Greenwood at my parents house. Hi Brian as he walked up to me I've never forgot it. You got a good memory. You remember people. I'm lucky that way I mean I must say I don't take it for granted. And I would dare say that, May, it's something that I learned how to do by putting faces and names together.

I think the political campaigns helped me to do it and forced me to do it. And to be very honest, I think at the beginning of my political career, people said, oh, he's a little bit oblivious. He's a little bit aloof. And I said, geez, I think at the beginning of my political career, people said, oh, he's a little bit oblivious. He's a little bit aloof. And I said, geez, I got to work on this. Like I got to work on eye contact. I got to work on getting to know people. Now you see you're turning to look at me and not looking at your microphone.

But those things matter to people and they matter in communication, how you communicate with people. So yeah, I've tried to keep it up and uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's been a, it's fun and on the other hand, you know, you do have these meetings with people say, Bob, you remember me and I figured, oh God, you know, no, have we met? And they say, no, we haven't met, but I've seen you on TV a lot. So you say, what the hell is that? Like, how am I supposed to remember?

That's not fair. That's it. And I said, that's, you may have seen me. I haven't seen you. A different Brian, Brian Gerstein says, ask Bob Ray, if he remembers our chat watching Denny at the U S open, uh, how did he become such a big tennis fan? Has he been to any of the other three majors? Yeah. Been to the U S open and Wimbledon.

And, uh, yes, I do remember the chat. And, and the, the fact is, is that I, um, grew up playing, my dad was a good tennis player and my parents played tennis and I grew up watching, you know, playing with them and, and playing with my brother. And I'm not a star tennis player, but I'm, I was, I've been reasonably good in my time as a B player, probably now a C player, but a little slower. But I really enjoy tennis. It's a great sport. And I first went to a tournament years ago and it was so fantastic

watching it in person and watching these guys, they traveling with the Kramer troop. Remember the time when the pros and the amateurs were separated out. So if you want to make any money at tennis, you have to kind of quit the tournaments and you know, the majors, you couldn't play in the majors if you were a pro. Okay. I don't remember this. Well there's a whole pro circuit that played, you know, Pancho Gonzalez and, and Lou Hode and you know, all those Kenny Rosewall, all those great players. I'm, you're looking at me like I'm crazy.

You're way too young. Your hair is getting older, but you're, you see, I'm 50 years old tomorrow. That's nothing. And my first memory is a tennis or like Yvonne Lindell. Yeah. Well, he's a little later than these guys. But after you see the point about what happened in the seek late sixties was the pros were allowed to play finally once again. Okay. And I saw Kenny Rose well play when he came back from being not allowed to play to being able to play and he went all the way to the finals at

Wimbledon and I got tickets and when I was a student at Oxford and it was an amazing experience watching him play and then since then I've been able to get to Wimbledon once and to the US Open a couple of times because I get to go now. It's a, I live in New York. You can, you can, you can walk there. I can walk there. Sort of. Now.

Okay. So, so shout out to Brian Gerstein, who I'm going to see tomorrow. Brian, I just want you to know, I will bring you the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball book that I promised you. So I've got it already upstairs. It's going in my backpack tomorrow. So you're getting that like Bob got and Al Grego you had that great question about the skinny dipping I just want to give your gift to Bob Ray right

now this wireless speaker right there that's courtesy of Al Grego he's with Manaris he hosts an award-winning podcast for Manaris called yes we are open and with that Bluetooth speaker you can listen to season 6 of yes we are open and anything else you want to listen to, we'll get to music a bit later. Totally cool. Thank you very much. Al. Yeah.

Shout out to Al. You can call him. Oh, you can call them out. As I say, yeah, call me Bob. That's great. Basement. Dweller wants to know what you think of the potato lock. He's at the free times cafe.

Are they good? Potato latkes are great. Did I say it wrong? Say it again. Lotka. I said, a lot. I'm latkes. I'm so ignorant.

That's fine. What is the connection there? I do know there's a connection between you and the Free Times Cafe. Well, it's just a place I go every once in a while. And it's, my wife is Jewish, and so as when I was in my 20s and 30s, and we were dating and getting married. Um, I, I was,

my life was changed in a dietary way. I suddenly learned about foods that I'd only heard of or read about, but I'd never actually eaten. So yeah, delicious. And the funny thing about latkes is you find them in all these turn your European cultures, right? Yeah. Uh, yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. You know, various kinds of, you know, pierogies or other things they've, they're all, all related.

All related here. Now your uncle, I'm just curious because I'm kind of digging into you and I'm like, what's interesting in the bio, that's not the regular stuff. And I learned about a show that I missed. Okay. But this show was called the Jackie Ray show aired on CBC. It turns out this Jackie Ray fellow flew spitfires in the Second World War and he earned the Distinguished Flying Cross in 1943 That's that's amazing. But you're you're you're related to Jackie Ray. He's no longer with us

My uncle Jackie's passed away my father's younger brother my father my aunt Grace and uncle Jackie Were part of a vaudeville troop called the three little rays of sunshine. They traveled across Canada. My dad was a song and dance guy. He was a great tap dancer and a great singer, great piano player. And uncle Jackie, Grace was a dancer and worked for a year at Radio City Music Hall, came back to Toronto and did some choreography and stuff. And Uncle Jack, he was joined the service when he was very young. I think he was probably underage when he joined the Air Force and trained in Godrich and went

to the UK and fought at DEP and that's when he won the Dfc. Never talked about it much until the very end of his life and he came back. He worked in England for time then he worked in Canada, came back to Toronto. He ran the Canadian Talent Library which was the standard broadcasting and others to build up Canadian talent so people could get on the air because the government had created all these rules for Canadian content on the radio. But prior to that Jackie worked at the CBC, worked with the Wayne and Schuster show and there was a radio show and then he was made the news 32 or 3 very young guys made the head of

Variety and Canadian TV and Canadian CBC television and he had his own show for a couple years the Jackie Ray show which was sort of a variety show Wally Costner was one of the singers of you wouldn't have heard of any of these guys But it was and he also didn't know Wayne and Schuster He did Wayne and choose my buddy was on that show is what the kid whenever they needed a kid it was Stu Stone exactly well the funny thing about about the Johnnie was and Frank Schuster were where my dad worked with them at the at the UC Follies University College Follies was the variety show that was put on by students in the 30s at the U of T and my

dad was the producer of that show and Wayne & Schuster had just moved up to University from Harvard Collegiate where they were star star performers and yeah they were I've got the program actually from the 1936 UC Follies. The proud part of my my memorabilia collection. Okay, so that was low in the mix there. Here, I'll play the other one here. There's a lot of this online, by the way. Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber threw a birthday party for the Queen a few years ago. Uh-oh, I know what's coming.

Just a little of this, because it makes sense though, knowing about your Uncle Jackie Ray. He would ask friends to perform some of Her Majesty's favorite songs. A source at the Palace told him about her fondness for People Will Say We're in Love from Oklahoma, but also for Anything by Cole Porter. As a special tribute, the Honorable Bob Ray, a former Premier of Ontario, is now going to perform one of Cole Porter's best known songs with new words, especially crafted for the Queen of Canada on her 90th birthday. That's the biggest applause I've ever received. I never get that in politics.

Brent Carver and Susan Gluckarck. So be gentle. Words poetic, I'm quite pathetic, that I've always found it best instead of getting them off my chest. I always found it best Instead of getting them off my chest But let them rest, unexpressed I hate parading my serenading I'll probably miss a bar

But if this ditty is not so pretty At least I'll tell you how great you are You're the top You're the longest ruler on planet Earth There is no one cooler. You're the one who calms a PM's troubled brow. You're on the money. You're Phillips Honey.

You're a total wow. You've got staff to do all the dustin'. But you do realize, Bob, in an alternate universe, if your life had gone a different route, you would be like Jackie Ray, your uncle there. You could be a song and dance man. This is your talented guy. I enjoy it. I've had a lifelong joy of music and it's made a huge difference in my life.

Music is a big mood changer for me. I find that if I'm down, if I'm low, if I'm feeling crappy, music makes a huge difference and all kinds of music, classical music. That's my next question. What are your jams, Bob Ray? Well, no, I play my own stuff. I write my own music and I write songs, which I've had great pleasure. Carol Wellsman actually did a wonderful version of the song I wrote, which is still very special to me.

And I've had a lot of fun playing, written a couple of songs about kids and other things, which have been a big part of my life. And plus, I love listening to classical music I knew really enjoy that so do you enjoy any contemporary music or any modern music what's modern I'll let you go back to the 90s well Randy Newman I've loved Randy Newman big influence I mean I like I mean I like the big guy I mean I like Elton John and Billy Joel and that style of music, that style of playing. I've enjoyed that a lot. But I just love contemporary music.

Going back to the 60s and 70s, I would play it all the time. I find contemporary music a little, sort of a little far removed from my world, but that's okay. I mean, I'm not opposed to it. I like rap. I like listening to rap. In fact, like when I was premier, we created a

program for young black kids and get them, you know, get them a chance to get their first jobs. And we, we did a pro, we did a, we did a thing where in the arts where kids could take the summer and learn how to do stuff. And in fact, a lot of hip hop started in Toronto in those days because of that program. Okay, well shout out to DJ Ron Nelson

and his fantastic voyage, his CKLN show, and then that gives us, we got Maestro Fresh West and Mishimi and the Dream Warriors, quite a scene happening in the early 90s in this city. So good on that. Okay. Now I realize, okay, you got Bob Bray here.

We're going to cook with some gas here. So I'm going to start with some current events and then I have some highlights. I want to, I mean, I heard you were delivering papers to Richard Nixon. Yeah, yeah. I was a paper boy. You used to deliver that. So there's fun facts there, but let's talk really for a moment here about what happened the other night

So just cuz I'm curious Midtown Gord wrote in first he says I'm not sure when you have Bob Bray in but as a lifelong resident of st Paul's my question has to do with the by-election How does this affect the future of Justin Trudeau as leader within the coming years? So he wants to know and this is the obvious Happening that we can talk about right now is the Toronto fortress has been penetrated Bob Rae, okay There's a conservative party MP in the city of Toronto Don Stewart Don the con

He won that federal by slim margin 1.8 percent. What does this mean for the federal leadership of the Liberal Party? I Mean only time will tell I mean, I'm not in politics directly. I have to be careful what I say But I do have a historical perspective going back to the beginning of my political career. I was actually elected for the first time as an MP in 1978 in a, in a by-election, which was one of 14 or 15 by-elections across the country, which the liberals didn't, I don't think they want a single one across the,

cause they might have won one. I don't, I'm sure I don't think they want a single one across the country. They might have won one, but I'm not sure. I don't think they won any. Um, and you know, that was in 78, 79, Joe Clark won a minority. Everybody expected Joe Clark to get a majority, but he was held to a minority. And then in nine months after that, um, Pierre Trudeau made, uh, made a comeback. So that's the first thing I would say. So you never, you don't know and don't read it, you know, don't read trends into everything. The second thing is, I mean, most of my political career, Toronto was very competitive between the three political parties. All the time I was in federal and provincial politics in my first run between 78 and 96. It was very competitive in every respect and the conservatives won seats, the liberals won seats. So when people

talk about you know this fortress liberal kind of thing, you sort of say that's a relatively recent phenomenon created in 93 by Mr. Kretchen having the benefit of the conservatives being divided between reform and, uh, NPC. Well, I was going to point out here is that the, you're right, of course, you know, but, uh, that the progressive can now we're talking federally now, the progressive conservative party is not the conservative party of Canada.

So I feel like this, I believe I haven't even checked Wiki yet, but this might be the first conservative party MP in Toronto ever. I'm not sure. Yeah. But that feels right. Just from, Yeah, but that's, I mean, I guess that's because I, I mean, my kids always joke about this, but I really do have a historical sense of these things. You know, it's, it's like nothing lasts forever in the sense of, you know, are you going to, is everybody being elected in one city

gonna be all of one party? No, probably not. And then when it changes, you say, well, this is huge. And you say, well, let's see how this evolves. But I mean, Mr. Trudeau and the Liberal Party will make their choices. But I do think it's important for people to kind of look at it a little bit in perspective. And there is a difference between what happens in a by I mean, just

historically, this is not a partisan point. There is a difference between what happens in by elections and what happens in in general elections. That's generally speaking, true. And I think it's important for people to remember that. Well, that's good perspective. I mean, you, you know, Justin's dad, you worked on his 1968 liberal leadership campaign. So you were, uh, you know, coming and starting your adult life, you were supporting the liberal party. Yes. So, okay. So I, I did brush by the Richard Nixon. So quickly tell us how you were delivering newspapers of Richard Nixon.

And then I need to know why you, uh, decide to join the NDP back in, well, 50 years ago, 1974. Well, I mean, let's keep it as short as we sweeten as we can. I was a paper boy in Washington, DC, because my dad was posted to Washington. My dad was a career diplomat. And, and so when I was, um, you know, a young boy,

uh, I had a paper route, uh, with, um, friends and my brother and my brother and delivered all kinds of different newspapers over my paperboy career for six years. And Richard Nixon was, was one of our customers because in those days, the vice president lived in a regular house just around the corner from where we lived. So it was not unusual. In fact, his daughter went to primary school

with me at Horace Mann public school. Okay. Fun fact, I'm not to primary school with me at Horace Mann Public School. Fun fact and by the way, I think you might be the first Rhodes Scholar on Toronto Mike. I have to do did little digging here, but that's impressive unto itself. You're a Rhodes Scholar. I know quite a lot about Rhodes. I got to say the Gardner is a real You know, I have a half an hour I want to talk to you about the Gardiner. Exactly. The Gardiner parking lot. The reason I was a little bit late getting here was there's a lot more stuff going on in the Gardiner.

Yeah. I'm like, oh, he's a busy guy. I'm like, but he's, you know, still he could send me a note or something, but you're only a five minutes late. But, okay. So what caused you to leave, you know, stop supporting the Liberal Party and join the NDP back in 1974? Well, I came back to Canada after being a student in England for a while and worked as a community worker in North London, then came back to go to law school and it was the mid-70s. Stephen Lewis was the leader of the provincial New Democrats and I thought he was terrific and I did some work for the United Steelworkers as a young law student and continued to work for them.

Became a labor lawyer and it just seemed like a natural fit at the time. And so I didn't, wasn't some dramatic religious conversion. I didn't have a, you know, I was over in the UK, I didn't have a liberal party card or anything, but I did, I was an active young liberal in 67, 68, 69. And I never frankly thought that much about, you know, one or the other, as much as I did feel very much that Stephen Lewis was looking at life from a perspective of social justice and social reform that I really respected. As it so happened, the federal seat came open and the guy who had been the federal MP, John

Gilbert, was somebody I knew very well in the East End of Toronto. I was encouraged to seek the nomination, which I did. And I'm very glad that I did, and I'm very glad that I was able to contribute. And it really, I think I found my vocation when I became an active politician and an active advocate for people and maintain that sort of thinking about things. I mean, I still consider myself to be in public life in some way or another. I do it in different places and different times, but I feel that it's a combination of working with people, which I really enjoy, and working for people and working for causes

and for values that I believe in. And I've had the opportunity to do that over 50 years. And it's been a wonderful run. I can't say it's been a wonderful run because the run is still going on. Well, I'm going to ask you, before I get to a great comment from Gere Joyce that ties in nicely with the late 70s when you're in federal politics with the NDP but before I get there are you done with political life like like you get some gas left in the tank you can take another run and become maybe become another and become an MP again any any chance I have no plans no plans to do

that are you gonna make the announcement on Toronto Mike no I've been asked to stay on for another year at the you at the UN. So I'll do this job through this year and, um, I'll be becoming the president of the economic and social council of the UN, which is a, a great, um, a great post, a great opportunity to serve. And, um, I think, you know, at the conclusion of that time, I think I'll be ready to come back

to Toronto, but I'm not thinking much about what comes next. I like what I'm doing right now and I'm not going to get provoked into saying something foolish. Okay. A couple of questions about what you do now. Coming out.

I try. Nice try though. Nice try. That's right. It's good. No, no, no pressure. You know, I will take that beer back from you, Mr.

Ray. Okay. Okay. I'm not drinking the beer for the record. I'm not drinking water. He's drinking water, everybody. Gere Joyce writes in, in, I volunteered for him in Broadview Greenwood back in, no, the years I'm curious, he says 79, 80, but I think it

was maybe earlier than that, right? Because I heard you say 1978. I was first elected in 78 and then re-elected in 79 and 80. So she's telling the truth. Yeah, so Gare, yeah, his real name Gary, he was by Gare, just too many Garys out there. You know, they're not making any more Garys, but he's like, I'm going to take this back from the Gary's. I'm a Gary. Here, Joyce says at one of the candidates, one of the all candidates meetings in East Dale, after he mopped the floor with the Trudeau favorite parachuted candidate, Bob went to the side of the stage, sat at the piano and played the rest of them off the stage. The guy could host the talk show and lead the band.

Such a talented and truly likable person. It's hard to believe he ran in school with Iggy. Oh no, Michael and I, well Michael was the MP for Tobacco Lakeshore, so I knew Michael, I mean Michael and I were roommates at university. That's a fun fact that you guys were roommates. Yeah, we shared a flat at 618A Bloor Street West. Okay, That's a fun fact that you guys were roommates and we shared a flat at six, 18 a Bloor street west.

Okay. That's a fun fact. So we're talking federally here, right? So you're with the NDP federally, but we all know you best. Uh, as provincially, you become premier of this darn province. So what caused you to switch from federal politics where you were an MP to leading the NDP provincially? Well, it was a tough choice. And I mean, I look back on my life, I'd say that's one of the most difficult choices I had to make, uh, and was not a slam dunk at all.

I thought a lot about it and up and down. I think the thing that really made a difference for me was that, um, we, Arlene and I had been married and we've had our first child, uh, in 1980, Judith and 81, she was born. And so I, I, um, I felt that I didn't want to live a life where I'd be going back and forth between Toronto and Ottawa and staying in

Toronto made a lot of sense. It was a hard shift for me. Um, I was not a natural at leading the provincial party at the beginning, maybe never, but I think I was, I got better at it this time went on. Um, but I was at it for thir never, but I think I was, I got better at it this time went on. Um, but I was at it for third, uh, for 15 years until I left in, in 96.

Um, and I, it really, it's been an incredible run. That was a wonderful opportunity to serve and, and really get to know the province and, and to travel from one corner to another, mainly by car. I mean, you did a lot of driving and a lot of just meeting people in small places. And there are many, I mean, I've spoken to small crowds in a lot of places, like I can tell you, like tiny ones and, but always enjoyable. And, uh, totally, totally enjoyed it.

And a little perspective for the youngins out there, but you know, it's easy to forget that when David Peterson wins in 85 85 that ends 42 years, 42 years of PC party rule. Is that like that? That's I think I know that that I pulled off of Wikipedia 42 years, 42 years. And then, but when you say David Peterson won, David Peterson won the most seats. OK, it was a minority parliament and we had to make the decision in the NDP, who would we support? And there was a decision to be made. Right, and this is Frank Miller was leading the PC party.

Frank Miller was leading the PC party, he was the premier. So what role do you play in beating, defeating Frank Miller's PC party? And then I'm curious how that compares to the defeat of Joe Clark federally like what role do you play? I played the same role. We moved the motion that led to the defeat of the government in the House of Commons in 1980 and also to the defeat of 79 I guess it was in December of 79 and then to the defeat of the Miller government. So I used to say I'm still waiting for the hat trick, but I did it twice. And, and, uh, I mean, I have been a member of two parties, but never a member of the conservative party. No, you never know what your next chapter is.

No, you never know. Life can go on. I think you'd be popular with me. Exactly. I'm waiting for the call. Call could come sooner than you think here, but okay. So how close do you come to replacing Ed Broadbent as federal NDP leader? I thought about that. I mean, I had an opportunity when Ed decided to retire. There are people who pressed me to do it.

And, um, but I decided that was in 1988 or 89. I made a decision with the caucus in Ontario that I would stay for the next election. And, uh, that's the, it happens to be the election that we won. And yeah. So let's not bury this lead. You were the 21st premier of Ontario. You led this province from 1990 to 1995. And if we're looking for fun facts, cause on this show, there's fun facts.

There's mind blows. I decide which is which, not Jane Sibary, but you are the first person to lead a provincial NDP government east of Manitoba. Yes. Followed by many others, followed by the Premier of Nova Scotia. But yeah, it was a great honour and it was a great surprise. And interesting, talk about fun facts. The day that the election was called, the day after, the first day of the campaign, the first time ever the NDP did overnight polling, which means you're doing a rolling

poll for the party where you're asking a question for, I think the sample was 200 or 400 or something. And the first, the first day the results came in, I said to my chief of staff and at the time David Agnew, who became, later became secretary of the cabinet, now the president of Seneca college, give him a bit of a shout out. Great guy. Wonderful friend. Anyway, David, I said to David, I said, well, what, what were the poll results? How are we doing? And he said, uh, haven't come in yet. I said, what, what are you talking about? Of course they've come in, I said, well, what were the poll results? How are we doing? He said, haven't come in yet. I said, what the fuck, what are you talking about?

Of course they've come in, you know. And finally he said, okay, is it bad? Like it's, because he knew that, I'm a moody guy, so he knew that if I saw the numbers were bad, I said, oh, he's gonna go down, he's gonna really, I said, no, so don't do that. So we were, are in the low twenties and Peterson was in the mid forties and the

conservatives were down with us. You know, we were just way, way down. And I said, holy shit, this is going to be bad. And he said, no, that's just the first, it's not a big sample it's waiting on. And sure enough, as that week went on, even that first week went on, we jumped like, you know, five, six, seven

points and we started, when we go out with campaign around the province, you could see the numbers of people coming to the, to the events going up and up and up and the press weren't getting it. You know, Arlene tells the story, she went onto the press bus the day before the election to say hello to everybody and thank them all for their stuff. And they, they, they didn't show her the party names, et cetera, but they showed her the numbers.

And it was very clear that there wasn't in their mock poll that they did and in the pool that they had as to who was going to win what. None of them showed us winning. None of them. None of them, nobody believed that it was gonna happen. So this is why, I come into this business about polling and about change, and I say polls change, people change their minds.

Sometimes they don't, sometimes it's set. I would say, this is props going a little far for you and Ambassador, I think when you look at the results of the election in the UK next week, it's, you're not gonna overcome a 20 point gap four days before an election and say the election's not over yet. At some point you say, well, sometimes it's over,

sometimes not over. But in our case, it was a remarkable shift that nobody expected. In fact, I saw somebody yesterday at the event for Peter Herndorf and they said, you know, I was on a plane and the night of the election and the pilot announced to the passengers, said, folks, you're not gonna believe this.

And you know, I said, I didn't know where the people was. I let turn back, you know, turn the plane back. But it was such a funny story. I said, no, it's true. Many people remembered where they were the night of that election shocking Okay This was so I wish we could rewrite the narrative that just occurred the other night as well Which is have the Edmonton Oilers win that game. Oh my goodness. Yeah, well my wife's from Edmonton

Yeah, I had my Edmonton shirt on no. No, it was tragic tragic But if so, I'm trying to draw the parallel. If Edmonton had pulled off that's sort of like you and your NEP party in 1990, because no one gave you a chance. Edmonton was down three nothing and we were all writing the obituary shout out to Ridley Funeral Home, who by the way, gave you a measuring tape that green, that's a measuring tape for you,

Bob Ray from Ridley Funeral Home. So that, what was that for the casket? You got to measure, we need to size you up, Bob. What are you going to need in 50 years? We'll figure that out. Yeah. But you win. So now again, time, I look at this clock and I'm like, oh my God, you got it.

We don't have time to talk about this, but like, like what are you most proud of from your time as premier of this province? And is any regrets, anything you would have done differently in retrospect? I think the thing I'm most proud of is really helping the province get through what was a very tough recession with as much skill as I could bring to the task. We saved a lot of companies, we saw we had a big social housing program, we did a lot of great things in terms of you know equal pay and employment equity and a whole ton of really positive things that I'm still extremely proud of.

And I have no hesitation in saying that I'm delighted and proud to have been the Premier of Ontario and to have served as effectively as I could. I think the thing that I did that was what they call a bridge too far was the social contract. I think that in the end, I think there were a lot of people in the labor movement who felt that it was not right, it was not what they expected or wanted. I felt at the time that it was, for me, it was about saving jobs and it was about preserving what we call the social contract so that enough people could

stay on and we wouldn't end up firing lots of nurses and teachers and seeing other lose their jobs because of the gap, the fiscal gap that was there. I don't think it was the wrong decision, but if you say, do you regret it? I'd said, well, I would wish we could have figured out another way to do it or to do what we were trying to do. And yeah, it was tough.

Your last name is Ray. It was too easy to coin the phrase Ray Days. Ray Days was kind of like right there, you know. On the other hand, I was talking to a guy last night at this Peter Herndorf event. And he said, I love Ray Day's and you know it was a three-day weekend, it was a chance to get some time away and so on. So I mean they were not as unpopular although obviously the government was unpopular and I you know I I never felt that you know personally people hated me or anything but I knew that there were a lot of people who were disappointed and

And it was tough. It was a tough time. It was it was a difficult moment Quick promotion that if anybody wants to hear a tribute to Peter Horndorf There actually is a episode of Toronto Mike where we paid tribute to Peter Horndorf and my special guest for that episode was the aforementioned Steve Bacon, so you can find that in the Toronto Mike feed here. Okay. So just glance at the clock here. So you, you know, we talked about your, your federally, your NDP, the provincially NDP, and then now you're going to resign from the party. And then eventually you'll join the liberal party. So give me a, uh, in a nutshell, what's behind that decision to join the Liberal Party? I don't think there was a big change in my thinking or my political values or what was

what underlay my commitment to politics and commitment to people. I think what happened were a couple of things. One is that I felt the NDP, when I left as premier, and left, I mean, obviously left as leader of the party, I felt that there were, the party moved to the left. And in doing so, I felt it kind of abandoned what I felt was an important object lesson for us, is that we took our political responsibility seriously and

we were not afraid to make difficult decisions in government and we believed in governing and I believed in governing from the center which is where I think you have to be. You talk about hockey, if you want to score goals it helps if you're in the center rather than you know behind the net somewhere or way off on one side or the other. And I still believe that to be true. And I think that as I began to express those thoughts in my writing, because I wrote a couple of books, I wrote my book on from protest to power,

there were another book called The Three Questions, which talked about public policy and the choices that people have to make. And as I was doing that, a lot of people said, well, you know, you're kind of moving. And I said, no, I mean, it's a time when Tony Blair became the leader of the Labour Party. There was a lot of movement in that direction.

And yeah, that's when I, you know, Mr. Kretchen talked to me, he said, used to joke with me, he said, when are you gonna run for me? I said, well, you know, it's not in my mind. It's a hard thing to do. And frankly, it is a hard thing to do, to leave a party you've been a member of for a long time

and then to join another one and to run for the leadership was abrupt. And I just said, I'm gonna do this. And there were a lot of New Democrats who were felt betrayed and angry and unhappy and I totally get it. I understand that and it was difficult to do. But I must say that I felt when I returned to the House of Commons and lost leadership and still went on to run again because I felt I owed it to my new party to do that. It was also a time when I felt a sense of mission that what I believed in,

the kind of liberal and social democratic values that had been part of my upbringing and part of what I really thought was true, was ready to take on Mr. Harper. And that's what I did as leader of the third party for a time in the house of commons. And I think I helped to reposition and re situate the party. Uh, and then Mr. Trudeau took over. Right. You were there as interim leader between your former roommate Iggy, as a Gary calls them, my good nav. And then, uh, of course, Justin Trudeau who still leads the party today that's back in 2013 now quick

Interesting so you ran for leadership and you were defeated as you know and But there was a report that came out shortly Reminding me in case you forgot your own bio you're an FOTM and you were defeated for liberal leadership there But I'm curious about you mentioned your your wife is a Jewish Arlene And is it true? Like, so I guess this was reported, and of course it's true, but I'm curious. She was approached by a delegate who didn't know who she was, didn't know this was Arlene Ray, and told her not to vote for you, Bob, because your wife is Jewish.

This happened? Yes. Wow! Like, this isn't happening in the, you know, the 60s. No. This is fairly recent history. That's a shocking that this would be, you know, set aloud at a leadership convention. Don't vote for Bob because his wife is Jewish. Yeah, it's very upsetting to put it mildly. She was disappointing. Yeah, but I think we're living in a time when there's just a lot of prejudice and

prejudice is unfortunately making a comeback. I know I also did a report on the Air India bombing where it was impossible to avoid the conclusion that I was asked to do a factual review of the situation 20 years later by the federal government and I did it. It was possible to avoid the facts that the Air India bombing had been carried out, planned and carried out by Canadians, by people living in Canada. And you needed to understand that and also to understand that that doesn't mean that every member of one community or another is bad or wrong or, you know, an extremist, but it does mean that we've got to understand that this is something that

exists in our society. And I think we've seen recently just how challenging it is now with growth and anti-Semitism, as well as Islamophobia, as well as, you know, people getting singled out for their background. And it's one of the things about our contemporary life in the city that worries me. And, um, you know, when I come back, it's one of the things I do want to work on as a citizen, uh, is, you know, what's happened, what's happening to, uh, our civic culture and our

commitment to one another and to build a, you know, a place, a city and a community that's, uh, that takes care of, takes care of people because people should not be living in fear and there should not be the level of, of, uh, you know, violence and, and uh, social breakdown that, uh, that we see. And it is going to require a much deeper commitment on the part of all of us to, to, to rebuilding a stronger culture. So Bob, I see now by the clock here, we are at a

time. I see by the clock on the wall. Right. That's right. Now I'm going to just really quick rapid fire the questions that listeners sent in just because I look out for my listeners here and Neil Herland, who is not only an FOTM, but he's a with CBC radio news.

You'll hear him giving you the news every every hour. Neil Herland, he says Canada last won a seat on the UN Security Council in 1998. Since that time, Canada has failed multiple efforts to win a non permanent seat. What does Canada need to do differently to win next time? And maybe a little context what Neil's talking about. I think most listeners are going to be like, what are we talking about? What we're talking about is the Security Council of the UN has five permanent members who all have vetoes and 10 non-permanent members who are elected for two-year terms.

And we have tried twice in that period that Neil's talking about to win a seat and we were not successful. I think it's largely a feature of the fact that getting one of the positions from the Western European and others group, when others, Western European and others are sticking together a lot more, it's more difficult, it's more challenging. I think we need to understand that. And the other thing I would say is, I'm not really dead set on the need for Canada

to sweat a whole lot about a two-year membership on a non-permanent basis on a council that's where Russians and the Chinese have vetoes in the US and other countries have vetoes and we don't. The UN is a very hierarchical place. It's all about status. Are you on this committee? So when I was asked, should we put our name in to be the president of the Economic and

Social Council, I said, yeah, because nobody has a veto. And I prefer to be on places where somebody else doesn't have a veto over what we're doing. And I think that was the right decision. So in four weeks' time, I'll become the president. You can call me, the next time I'm on you, call me Mr. President. Would you come back?

I feel like we're leaving a lot of good stuff on the cutting room floor. Mr. President, will you return? I will return. I will return, as someone once said, a famous general who also said that, you know, old generals never die. They just fade away. So, right. Yeah, I'm not fading away soon. It's and don't listen to Neil Young, who says it's better to burn out than fade

away. That's not true. Philip Parkinson quickly here. Can Canada realistically hit the 2% NATO target for defense spending? I think so, if the political will is there. I think that's something that's being actively discussed within government. I do think we all have to do our part in meeting the challenge. I think the fact of the matter is defense spending has increased in every single year of the Trudeau Prime Ministership and it you know the the contribution of Canada has grown every single year and so I think we just have to keep understanding that we live in a

universe where that's something we need to be prepared to do. What is the most critical issue that you're currently focused on or working on or both because usually you need to focus on something you're working on? Well there's really two I'd say two big ones well there's actually more than that but I do think that the first one is dealing with the threat of authoritarian profoundly anti-democratic governments in different parts of the world that are wreaking havoc. The Chinese and the Philippine government are in a major quiet for us, but it's still there, conflict over the South China Sea.

The Russians have invaded Ukraine and created real havoc in the global economy as well as total destruction in parts of that country. This is a real problem for the world that we have to continue to deal with. And the second one is the gap that's still growing between the rich countries and the poor countries, between countries that are better off and the least developed countries. And this is a continuing cause of concern for me because the poverty and the challenge facing all these countries in the world and the level of conflict in the world and the impact of climate change on these countries and the social disruption that people are

seeing. You saw the events in Kenya the last few days, just incredible pent up emotion that was expressed in the violent demonstrations that we've seen. This is largely a product of the weakness of social solidarity globally and we are going to have to do more to bridge these gaps and deal with the, we saw it over COVID, we've seen it over dealing with some of the financial outcomes of the conflict, the Ukrainian conflict, many countries in deep debt, countries where it's becoming increasingly difficult for them to survive. These are the big issues that I think we need to look at from an economic and social point of view and obviously will be a focus of my time in that job in the next year.

Amazing, Bob, I know how busy you are on this trip to Toronto, so it's kind of awesome that you carved out an hour to sit in some guy's basement and field all these questions. So I got to say, good on you because not everybody would do this. This is amazing. Well, thank you. I had the same thought as I was stuck on the gardener saying, what the hell am I doing here? But I'm delighted that I came and delighted to talk to you. And it's a great experience. Is this the influence of Mr. Steve Paken? Yeah, Paken has a hold on me, because if I screw up badly,

he's got the ability to kind of cause a lot of havoc on the television set. He can make some noise on the agenda there. Now, we joked about you joining the Conservative Party next and getting that hat trick, but you could also join the Green Party. Shout out to Ralph Ben-Murgy. Yeah. Ralph's a good friend.

Over the years. I actually produced an episode of Ralph's podcast, Not That Kind of Rabbi, where you were the guest. So we had a little Zoom meeting. Yes, indeed. No, we had a great meeting. And I did a one, when Ralph was on TV, I did actually play the piano on his show. If you could dig that up it'd be it'd be amazing because I've no idea what I

played. I've no I can't remember. Friday night with Ralph and Murgy is that the show? Yeah. I'm gonna dig that up for you. Last question on your way out there Cannell, I'd relax you. Emily had a great question. Does the current federal Liberal Party still represent the party that you joined Rob, Bob Rae, when you joined the federal party? I can't get into I'm gonna ask another episode I'm gonna duck duck that question because it requires me to get involved in contemporary political issues which I am right forbidden by federal legislation so how long I have to wait a year and a year you come back

and spill all the real deal I'll be a little more a little more open to stuff and then you could drink a beer on the show and we can get into it here. And that brings us to the end of our 1,511th show. You can follow me on, I'm all over the place, Twitter, Blue Sky, I'm at Toronto Mike. Go to torontomic.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love to all who made this possible.

That's Great Lakes Brewery. Bob's got his beer. Palma Pasta. They're feeding us all tomorrow night at Great Lakes. So come on down. It's no cost. You just show up and eat and drink and say happy birthday and get out of there. That's TMLX15 tomorrow at Great Lakes Brewery, Southern Etobicoke Campus. RecycleMyElectronics.ca. That's where you go, Bob. If you have old electronics, old cables, you don't throw it in the garbage, then those chemicals end up in our landfill. By the way, Cliff Hacking from recyclemyelectronics.ca,

hell of a tennis player. We gotta set up a match between you and Cliff Hacking. That's what we gotta do. He could whip me, I think. It's not even close. The Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. Again, I'm at Christie Pitts on July 7th. Monaris, you've got a speaker there from Minaris and Ridley Funeral Home. Bob is

measuring his casket as we, his body for his casket as we speak. See you all Friday for Toast with Rob Pruse and Bob Ouellette. We'll talk about TMLX 15. See you all then. Cause I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah I know it's true, how much, yeah All them pickin' up trash and them puttin' down rogues And their broker in stocks, the class struggle explodes