Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Bruce Dowbiggin: Toronto Mike'd #556

Episode Date: December 11, 2019

Mike chats with sports writer and broadcaster Bruce Dowbiggin about his years at CBC, the Calgary Herald, and Globe and Mail, his thoughts on Don Cherry, Alan Eagleson, Donald Trump, his Twitter persona, and his new book Cap in Hand.

Welcome to episode 556 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, StickerU.com, Brian Master from KW Realty, and Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack. and Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is author, writer, broadcaster, tweeter, Bruce Dobigan.

Total pain in the ass. Total pain in the ass. I can't say that yet. I've just met you. I'll be the judge of that, sir. But thank you for coming. No, it's a pleasure and for the record you didn't come straight from calgary just for this where where did you come

from my florida i was down in florida for about 10 12 days we have a family place there and uh our winter comes earlier in calgary so i just said you know and i go down and i do american thanksgiving with my American neighbors. And, uh, it's neat. So I get two Thanksgivings. Now what, like what,

tell me about this. Uh, you live in Calgary. Are you going back to Calgary from here? Yeah. Okay. My, my,

my, uh, two of my kids are there. My two grandkids, my wife. Lots of good. My five-year-old and my wife are right now in Edmonton. There you go.

So, cause her family is there. So there right now in Edmonton. There you go. Because her family is there. So there you go. Edmonton. What is the temperature, the climate? What is it right now in Calgary? Tell me. See, the way I describe Calgary, and I was brought up in Montreal,

and then I was here in Toronto for 25 years. So I understand different climates. But the way I explain Calgary's climate is we have all the same weather as Toronto, just not in the same sequence. So we'll be rambling along in summer and then you'll have snow or it would be in the middle of the winter time and then we'll have a chinook and it'll be like it'll be like 15 degrees right it's just edmonton doesn't get it but calgary does and it's a weird weird vibe and we will get minus 40 with the wind chill uh a dry cold as we like to say out there well pleasure to have you here and uh quick question right at the top the real talk is it

uh what's your preference colburn or springsteen oh it used to be springsteen but now i'm kind of i'm kind of moving back in the other direction i'm kind of too political for Bruce these days. Bruce Springsteen's too political for you. And Bruce Colburn, who lives in California, I believe, San Francisco, I believe. He's got a new marriage

and he's got the most interesting gap in ages between his kids. He's got a 40-something-year-old and he's got an 8-year-old. Now, just confession. I know Bruce a little bit. My best friend used to be part of the Bernies

that used to promote Bruce and manage Bruce. And we used to play on a softball team together down at Bellwoods Park. And Bruce Coburn was on the team and Murray McLaughlin. The True North team. Yeah. And this song, of course, is really, you know, we knew what was going on with Bruce's personal life at the time.

I wouldn't consider myself a close friend of his, but we hung out together, and I know lots of his good friends. I need to ask if you know Bernie Finkelstein. I do, very well. He was in here last week. Finkel's a great guy. Sitting in that chair. When I was doing CBC TV,

the Bernies had their office in the apartment building just behind us on Church Street. And in fact, when I was doing my live TV show for News World, we were the first ones to do a live phone-in sports show on Canadian TV. And we did that on News World. And we did one episode with Bernie and a bunch of people, and we did a live baseball draft. The whole hour was a baseball draft. Yeah, Bernie's a big baseball fan. Oh, huge, huge. Yeah, wonderful guy.

And Bernie Fiedler as well. They were all obviously very nice. And I'll put a prop out to my friend Rob Bennett, who has gone on to be a major promoter in this city. He worked at the Molson Amphitheater and stuff. So through him, I've met all sorts of people in the rock and roll industry and the pop music industry. Bernie's got great seats at the Dome. him i've met all sorts of people in the rock and roll industry in the pop music industry bernie's

got great seats for at the dome he's got these fantastic seasons two seasons tickets uh yeah are there good seats at the dome i mean you know is it like five five rows up on one of the baselines it's pretty good there's 10 there's maybe 10 000 good seats for baseball at the dome that's and and you know what we we did a show. I'm digressing here. No, actually, this is what we do, so please continue. Digress away. The week before the Dome opened, we did our show,

and I was working at CBLT at the time doing sports. Hilary Brown was our newscaster. And we did the show literally from inside the construction as we were finishing it that week. And we just looked at each other every night and said, this isn't opening.

This thing isn't going to get done. I guess we're talking early 89? Yep. Well, the week that they opened it. Right, June 89, I think. Yeah, June 89. And I just thought, there's no way this is opening. And they got it done.

And so we kind of had a feeling of pride of place that we'd actually been there that last week. And we knew how much they'd done. But I just have never liked it as a baseball player. Oh, well, it's not much. It's a big hunk of concrete, right? But it's all we got. I mean, I don't think they're going to be building a beautiful, like a Jacobs Field-type outdoor stadium anytime soon.

The thing about the Blue Jays, and if you follow me on Twitter, at Doughboy, D-O-W-B-B-O-Y is my Twitter handle. If you follow me there, I like to say things about the Blue Jays, and if you follow me on Twitter at Doughboy, D-O-W-B-B-O-Y is my Twitter handle. If you follow me there, I like to say things about the Blue Jays that they talk like the Red Sox, but they spend like the Royals. Oh, yeah. I was thinking this because the Yankees made a big splash yesterday. You might have heard. They signed Cole for

I don't know, some monster contract. I don't know, $350 million. I don't know, some nine-year monster deal. And I was thinking, oh, how do we compete? I keep thinking, like, we're like a large market team that pretends we're like the oakland a's or something like we pretend we're some small we spend like a small market team right yeah i got when i was at the globe and mail i was the globe for about five years doing the media beat i followed bill houston doing the the media beat there and i was there for five years and i did

an article about the blue jays and every other team in the division you could see what they were getting for their tv contract you knew how much they were getting in but because rogers was moving it from one pocket to the next they didn't want anyone to know anything right and and i kept saying how can you compete if you're not going to fund your team like the others are funded from the tv revenues but of course that would po the people who are at rogers who were doing the other functions who were not getting the money. And it's still a problem. It's where they're at today.

But I will say in late August 2015, it did look like we definitely did things that showed, hey, we're going for it. We're going to spend some money and acquire some all-stars. And that was very reluctant. The Blue Jay organization, well, they always wanted the money,

but Rogers was very reluctant. And it took a lot of they they always wanted the money but rogers was very reluctant and it took a lot of pressure and people saying i'm not going to renew tickets if you guys are going to continue to do what you're doing i'm just not interested in doing it and and that spending that spurt of spending and and letting alex anthopolis do what he did was completely against the grain and and now they've gone back to where they always were well they had hired uh they had hired shapiro before the playoffs that season, right? That's right. So obviously that wasn't to be here.

But now it seems like we're stuck in this. I heard a quote. I read a quote. I think it was Atkins, I think. I can't remember if it was Shapiro or Atkins. It was a quote. It was total corporate gobbledygook, which is saying a bunch of words but not saying anything at all.

And it's very frustrating as a baseball fan, especially when you see what the Red Sox and Yankees keep doing in their division. Toronto is the fourth largest urban market in the major leagues. It's bigger than all sorts of people. You could argue it's third because we caught Chicago, didn't we?

I suppose if you include all of Canada in it as well. But just say the Southern Ontario area or even Ontario and Quebec, Southern Quebec included, that you have the fourth largest market. as well but just say the southern ontario uh area or even ontario and quebec southern quebec included that you have the fourth largest market and and again they don't spend like it they they pretend and people here in toronto don't know how popular the blue jays got in 15 in the west and and and i'm sure you if you stay up late and watch the games from seattle when they go to seattle and all the vancouver people come down they have huge following, and there's so many people who are riding on this team,

and the owners just treat it like it's, oh, well. Yeah. You know. How would you like to buy a new phone, cell phone? You know, I mean, sorry. I have a good friend, Chris. So shout out to Chris if you're listening, but every day I see on Twitter,

he's sell the team Rogers. He just wants Rogers to sell this team rogers he just wants rogers to sell this team and it's uh his passion for that who would buy it no but seriously who who in toronto would would be putting out a billion dollars because that's basically what it costs to run a major league baseball team who has a billion dollars to throw out there and to do it the way it needs to be done and listen rogers if people forget as much as we damn them rogers saved the team from brewers who didn't give a damn, who were in Brazil and those kind of people.

So they helped. Belgium, right? Belgium? They were Belgian, but then I think they sold to somebody, whatever. But they saved the team, but they never have been fully in. And the Montreal Expos, who were my team and close to my heart, the problem was at the end of the day, nobody in Montreal would go into their own jeans

to pay for that team. They had to bring in an art dealer from New York City to fleece the team in the city and get them out of there. But nobody would spend their own money. I'm going to just jog your memory real brief here. This song here is by Whiskey Jack. Oh, yeah. Do you know where I'm going here?

Yeah. I got a note from Duncan Fremlin, Banjo Dunk, as I call him. And he says he played, and my apologies, have you had multiple weddings? No, just one. Okay. Just one. And he played your wedding. Yeah, they were great.

If anybody's thinking of having a wedding and you're trying to figure out, Bluegrass Band is perfect Because it's idiot music to dance to It's fun, it's not pretentious And everybody gets up We had a great time, we were married in my parents' backyard This is 1983 And John Hoffman and I had gone to university together

At U of T And I had been the director of the student theater At what is now U of T Mississauga And John had been an actor in a couple of plays there And I said, I'm getting married. He said, well, let us play your wedding. We had a great time. Great time.

But what a small world. I know, it's amazing. I'm amazing. I hope he's good to say hi to him for. Well, right now, I think he's in Barbados. That's how good he is right now. He's pretty good. And then he's got a great promo, though.

So let me just tell the listeners about a fantastic promo here from Banjo dunk from whiskey jack it's a stomp and tom christmas ornament giveaway so this ornament lights up and it plays the hockey song you can win this all you do have to do is go to whiskey jack music whiskeyjackmusic.com click store at the top of the page and if you buy either a copy of duncan fremlin's book my good times of stomp and tom or any of the Whiskey Jack Stomp and Tom CDs. We're listening to TTC Skedadler right now from the album. Then you get an entry into this contest.

They're going to draw the winner on December 15th, and then they'll express post the ornament to the next day. That's amazing. Merry Christmas from Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack. Was Doug Cameron in Whiskey Jack when they played your wedding? Does that ring a bell at all? You know, I only knew John's name. He introduced me to the...

I'll tell you a quick story, not to digress too much. No, go ahead. But we're having the wedding in the backyard, and my wife and I are basically organizing it. And my father is nervous about people coming to his place for the wedding. So it's about one in the afternoon, wedding's at four. And my father is sitting in his bedroom and he's summoned me to ask me questions about what's going to happen at the wedding. Specifically, where is everybody he wanted to know? The caterer wasn't there. The band wasn't there. There was nothing, nothing there. He was

just like, my friends are coming and you are going to have this thing, a disaster. He's lecturing me on my wedding. That was my dad. I love him. So anyhow, he does that. And just as he's doing that, all of a sudden over the rise in the background, I see this car come over the top, and it was the guys in the band. They were the first ones to arrive. Whiskey Jack saved the day.

Talk to me briefly about your dad here, because he served in the Royal Canadian Air Force, right? He was a bomber pilot? He was a Lancaster pilot. He flew 15 missions at the end of the war. In fact, I had, it's a big part of our family.

My mothers had three brothers who were in the RCAF, one of whom was shot down and killed. He's buried in Hanover, outside of Hanover. Another who flew about 30 missions. But my dad was a pilot. And real quick story.

He flew his plane back, his Lancaster back to Gander at the end of the war. And he thought he was going to go and serve in Japan because the Japan war was still on. As we know, the war ends, Japan, they don't go. My father has no idea what happens to his plane. So I moved to Calgary and I go to a museum there. It's called the Lancaster Bomber Museum. And I go to the museum and I see this tire at the place. And

my dad is with me. And I said, boy, you had big tires in that. And he looks at, there's a photo over it. And he says, this is the tire from my plane. This is the tire from the plane I flew in 1945 to get back from Germany. And he wrote me an article, which we put in the Calgary Herald. And if you go to the Bomber Command Museum, as it's called now, in Nanton, Nanton, Alberta, just south of Calgary, you'll see the tire. You'll see the story. You'll see his photo, the whole bit. That's unbelievable.

I still see a Lancaster. There must be one in Hamilton, I believe. It flies, yeah. And I see it when I go on these bike rides on the waterfront trail. I go, it still flies. Yeah, unbelievable. It's the only one I know in North America that still flies. The British have a couple.

The one that's at the Bomber Command Museum in Nantan, they bring it out and they turn on all the engines, those beautiful Rolls Royce engines, the Merlins, but it doesn't fly. So you're from Montreal, but you went to U of T, Mississauga, right? Yeah. So when abouts do you end up moving to the GTA? Well, my dad was one of the first people to leave Quebec on the political side.

He'd seen enough, and he moved us to Hamilton, actually Burlington, 1971. I did a year in Burlington at Nelson High School and then went to U of T and spent six years off and on going to university. I traveled a couple of years, made a trip around the world while I was there, edited the student newspaper at Arendelle. i directed the student theater while i was there

and uh that's and and along the way met friends that kept me in in toronto would it surprise people do you think to learn that you used to write poetry do you still write poetry if you go on my website not the public broadcaster there's a there's a thing called there i think it's called in so many words and that's my poetry is there i still write it to this day and you had a play a couple of plays produced i did yes at the tarragon theater a play called exact change and then buddies and bad times theater uh back when it was just starting up was have you had sky gilbert on no sky's a really interesting guy he's a he's a part of the toronto fabric and wonderful guy and now he'd started it with a guy named matt gilbert and i did a play there too and

i thought i was going to be a playwright i thought that was where i was going and i went to the national theater school to to finish my education in montreal met my wife realized i had to make some money right and i took a part-time job as the sports editor of TV Guide magazine and it moved me back to Toronto 1982 or 83. I'm trying to think, was Bill Brio at the TV Guide at that time? Bill Brio was, yes. Bill was there and a bunch of other guys there, John Keyes and Frank Baldick and a whole bunch of people. And in those days it was run as an adjunct for the American one.

And so we had some American people up there, really good editors and people who taught me. I was just breezing it because I thought I was going to go back and be a Neil Simon or somebody like that. Right, right. Shout out to FOTM Bill Brio, who went to my high school,

but a little older than me. He doesn't like to be reminded of that. Is he still writing in the daily papers? No, well, he does like freelance stuff, but he's got his own website, tvfeedsmyfamily.com. I had to think on what is that? papers or no well he does like freelance stuff but he's got his own website uh tv feeds my family oh that's right yes dot com i had to think on what is that lovely cute for school too too cool for school name that bill yeah bill's a great guy uh you know he did a lot of uh comedy back in uh back

in it back in the brio and i'm too i don't remember the name brio and something was like a local comedy troupe and these two to do Cable 10 stuff. He came with me. We did features for TV Guide magazine where we would do food features on TV people. And when I was a sports person, I would go and do the article. And he came with me to New York, and he was doing somebody else. And I spent the afternoon at Aqueduct with Jimmy the Greek,

talking about Greek food while we watched all of our horses lose. They're still running probably down there. And so I did a whole bunch of food, Morley Safer. I did a thing with Morley Safer. Amazing. Good Toronto boy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Very cool. So basically, this is U of T, the paper at Arendelle, and TV Guide is where you sort of discover maybe you could be a sports writer? Is this where that comes to be? I was just, as I say, I was killing time until I became a big theater person. And my friend Sandy Mowat, son of Farley Mowat, who we'd gone to university together,

John knew him, John Hoffman knew him as well. He was working at CBC with Joe Cote on The Morning Show. I don't know if you have ever been there, but they used to do the CBC morning show in Cabbage Town in an old theater. And the stage was up, the podium was where we did the show from. So people used to walk in off the street.

Parliament Street when it was Parliament Street. Anyhow, and they would watch the show. And I came in one day, I was doing panels on Monday mornings, doing sports panels as a TV guide guy. And Sandy stops me at the door as I come in and says, they just fired the sportscaster. Tell him you can do it. And I said, well, I mean, I know sports, but tell him you can do it. And it was the 84 Olympics were on.

So everybody at CBC Sports was away. And so I said, I'll volunteer. And I did it for a couple of weeks. And then they were going to replace me. It was all over. I had no future in broadcasting. And I can remember it was a Friday, and the producer was coming to tell me that's it. And he walked up to the stage. And Joe Cote, God bless him, wonderful man, stood up and said, I know what you're going to do. I want this guy. This is the first guy who actually gives a damn about sports on our station here in Toronto. And I want him to stay.

And he saved my job wow and that's how i got into broadcasting do you remember the name of the sportscaster that they can't they canned that created the opening for you george duffield okay poor george poor poor george and then and i've always felt guilty about this about i don't know a year and a half later i get a phone call from howard bernstein who's producing cbc at six and he says i want you to be my sportscaster the same thing and i go what but howard i've never done tv sports i will teach you don't worry and uh uh he said i got to make a decision between vick router or don martin which of those two i'm going to keep but you're going to do the six o'clock and unfortunately and i've said i've

already apologized to vick for this vick was the one that got let go well i'm a hundred percent certain vick is listening to us right now. He never misses an episode of Toronto Mike. I love you, Vic. He might actually be watching the Periscope feed. I felt badly.

It had nothing to do with me. And you know what? In some ways... Well, he did all right. Don't worry. Oh, yeah. He's gone. He's in the curling hall of fame.

He's the Bob Cole of curling. We see... Whenever they have a briar in Calgary, I go and see him and say hi. So, hi, Vic. Make the final. Make the final. Gosh, man. You get a catchphr in Calgary. I go and see him and say hi. So hi, Vic. Make the final. Make the final. Gosh, man.

You get a catchphrase like that. But Vic is a wonderful man. He kicked out the jams here once and it was one of my favorite, favorite moments. Big fan of the show and we're a big fan of Vic Rauter around here for sure.

So you're at, so CBC Radio and then you parlay that as you mentioned to the 6 o'clock news for CBC and, oh, CBC at 11 and the six o'clock news for cbc uh and oh cbc at 11 and the six o'clock news i did both for a while i started doing weekends and then i did the six and then i did the 11 and when i just started doing the six i think ross mclean was doing the

tv reviews for the globe at that time and he said i look like a ventriloquist dummy he said i look like i'm wearing a bad wig i I just, he completely dumped on me. It was, it was crushing. And I went to Howard Bernstein and I said, I've let you down. I failed. He said,

no, don't listen to those guys. Right. But those guys are all gone. I mean, we'll get to it when you replace Bill Houston, William Houston at the Globe, right?

But that's gone now. Like there's no main, no newspapers are really covering the media like that anymore. And, and the beat for Bill, when Bill did the beat for bill when beat bill did the beat and when i did it it was the highest rated uh column in the i love that stuff everybody read it like if you looked at the numbers well here i can do this for this but if

you looked at the numbers for steven brunt steven's numbers would go like this what do you have you know a big boxing thing it's up and then maybe a couple that weren't as big right the the column the the the the media column was like up here and it was steady the whole way. And anytime you did Don Cherry, it went even higher.

Oh, well, actually, maybe I'll do this now since you said the D word there. I have questions about two Donalds, but I'm going to save the other Donald for later.

But the Donald S. Cherry, what are your thoughts on what's gone down at, well, now it's Rogers Sportsnet, but what are your thoughts on John Cherry? Well, I think that in this case, I don, now it's Rogers Sportsnet, but what are your thoughts on John Cherry? Well, I think that in this case,

I don't think it's far from the worst thing he's ever, or the most, I shouldn't say the worst, but the most provocative thing he's ever said. He's said much more provocative things in the past, but he had bosses who were willing to forgive him. And this is the first time he's come up against somebody who said, nah, you know, nevermind, nevermind. Every time they'd say, Don, don't do that.

He'd say, okay, I won't do it again. He'd do it again, and they'd forgive him because the numbers are there. And God bless Don, he brought in money. He brought money to CBC, and they forgave a lot. And now Rodgers had a situation where, you know what, he's making a lot of money. We're paying a lot of money for hockey rights, and it's really tight and really expensive for us. The timing was just bad, and he missed.

And Ron McLean gave him the Judas kiss. tight and really expensive for us uh the timing was just bad and he missed and and and ron mclean gave him the judas kiss don't elaborate on that because i've heard this from several people and i don't i don't see it that way and i always wonder is my bias showing because i quite like ron mclean maybe i'm not maybe i'm blinded here i like ron too and we've worked together for a long time but if when when ron was going to be fired Don came out four square in support of him. And when Ron didn't come out in favor of him, I think a lot of people in the business and in the hockey world looked upon that

as a bit of a Judas kiss. But if Ron had decided that what Don Cherry said was wrong, let's say, Ron, he has to be careful not to appear as if he's condoningoning or uh condoning those remarks or an agreement of those remarks because uh so i feel like ron was in a no-win situation is how i see it like he had to be clear that what don said was inappropriate and he did not agree with what don said uh i don't know i just don't know what ron really could have done i don't know

maybe i'm uh being too kind to the man could have done i don't know maybe i'm being too kind to the man i think because i think he's a for a guy who sat there for 35 years and listened to all this stuff and nodded in agreement with it for him to all of a sudden turn around and say no i don't agree with this tone was to me was a little bit like where'd that come from do you think it's because ron very quickly because now we live in this age of Twitter, everything's immediate, but very quickly realized, oh, this is getting a negative reaction from the zeitgeist. Do you think Ron saw which way the wind was blowing? I think, and this is just me, I have no proof of this,

and I'm surmising, but I think basically the people at Rogers said, here's what you've got to say, Ron, for you to be still working here. They wouldn't have done every word, but I think they suggested what the content would be, and Ron wanted to keep working. Yeah, if that's true, though, can we blame Ron for that, for wanting to continue working at this great gig that pays very, very, very well? It might have worked better for me if he said, you know what? I sat there and I condoned this stuff for a long time myself.

And I should look in the mirror and say, I should have said some things in the past. Because I've said this before on Twitter and other places. I wonder what would have happened if Dave Hodge had still been there. Because Hodge, and you've had Hodge on. I had him on a few weeks ago. Yeah, yeah. Hodge, I mean, he's a little more hard bitten. And I think if Don had started pushing him and hitting him on the head with elbow pads a few weeks ago. Yeah, yeah. Haji was, you know, I mean, he's a little more hard-bitten.

And I think if Don had started pushing him and hitting him on the head with elbow pads and some of the stuff he tried with Ron, I don't think Dave would have allowed it to happen in the same way. I think he might have disciplined Don in a way that Ron either wouldn't or couldn't. And so he got out of the barn. And look, Ron's made a ton of money as the Abbott and Costello act in doing the twosome.

He's made a lot of money and been very well compensated. I think he's the most talented sports broadcaster technically that I knew at CBC at the time. He was so smooth. He could do stuff that the rest of us just were no good at. And I have a lot of respect for him. But in terms of that particular position, that's where I would have gone. I would have said, look, people may think that I approved of this in the past,

but I want you to know this is how I feel now. Now, Dave Hodge had a live event recently here with the reporters. And I hosted this audio. So that was a Toronto Mic exclusive. And one part was Dave Hodge shared with us a conversation they had in like 1986 or something like that, where Don called up, they had a phone call

and Don said he wanted to talk about that great goalie, Patty Roy, Patty Roy. And I can't, I got to go listen to hear the impersonation that Dave Hodge does. But Dave Hodge tells Don that we will not talk about Patty Roy. It is an insult to French Canadians. And we will talk about Patrick Waugh, right? And Don Cherry says something like, oh, I can call him.

I'm going to call him. I can call him Patty Roy. That's okay. And then Dave Hodge said, if you do call him Patty Roy, I will say this speech live on hog on coach's corner and then long story short uh dave hodge says that they ended up talking about something else yeah and and and dave hodge's point was that this don cherry that uh we've had for the past three decades or whatever it would never have been allowed to uh devolve evolve i don't know on uh hockey night

in canada had dave hodge been his uh co-host that i'm glad to hear him say that because i think that that might have been the situation and listen i don't certainly don't put it on ron's plate a lot of people who are good friends of mine for a long time indulged on in this who still work at cbc who don't work at cbc um there were some you know people who just looked the other way haha it's clever uh he's bringing in money etc and and so they they were all involved in this and and don took again you know i i have respect for him in the sense that he took the bullet okay this is the price i have to pay for doing it okay i'm going out on my shield uh and and and by comparison r Ron looked like he was,

you know, doing somebody else's bidding when he made that speech. And it's funny you use that expression going out on my shield, because I believe I got a story. I, I sit here with Mark Hebbshire twice a week, and he's got a podcast called Hebbsy on sports. And he told a story that Don told him years ago that he wanted to go out on

his shield. Like this is kind of the way he wanted to go out. If he was getting like, you know, he didn't want to have that, you know, that Bob Cole farewell tour. And then If he was getting like, you know, he didn't want to have that, you know, that Bob Cole farewell tour. And then,

so he kind of, you know, at 85 or 86, whatever Don is, this is, this is how it ended. And I, I think this is sort of the way it was going to end.

Yeah. Yeah. In some respects, he goes out at least to his, his people as a hero. Like a martyr almost. Yeah. He defended his particular sort of redneck school of, of, of hockey and all that stuff. And he, listen, God bless almost. Yeah, he defended his particular sort of redneck school of hockey and all that stuff.

And listen, God bless him. I just, sometimes Don and I got along and sometimes we didn't. And if you got into a public fight with Don over something, he was vicious with you. And I tell the story that in 2004, the Flames are making a run for the Stanley Cup. They're in the final.

And people in Calgary are so excited. At long last, Don Cherry is going to have to talk about the Calgary Fl they're in the final and people in calgary are so excited at long last don cherry is going to have to talk about the calgary flames not the toronto maple leaves and game one somehow he does coach's corner and he throws in some reference to the leafs and everybody in calgary is crushed and i write a column in the calgary herald and i said look that's just don one week it's it's it's french guys advisors the next week it's about a kid with cancer in saskatchewan that's just the way you know, it's French guys advisors. The next week, it's about a kid with cancer in Saskatchewan. That's just the way, you know, how he does this thing.

And he comes on the next coach's corner, and I'm watching the TV in the press box, can't hear the audio, and he's holding up the column. He's shaking with rage, and he said something along the lines of, this guy, this guy who's always a lowlife. Oh, yeah, the whole thing. He said, he's saying I'm not serious about kids with cancer. He thinks that I'm not serious about kids with cancer.

And the next thing my life gets turned upside down, I'm getting phone calls from people whose kids have died of cancer and telling me that I'm terrible. I mean, Don's a street fighter when you get in with him. So I have respect for him. He's almost feral. His appreciation of his intuition about broadcasting is almost feral, animal-like,

the way he understood it and how it could work for him. And as I said, the way he went out is in character. Now, you kind of alluded to the fact that Rogers, you know, could cut costs by kind of, it's almost like Don handed them the gun and said, you can shoot me with this. So, you know, I heard something like $800, it's almost like Don handed them the gun and said, you can shoot me with this. So, you know, I heard something like 800,000 a year I've heard for Don Cherry, something to that effect,

which we are living in this, we are witnessing the cost-cutting moves left, right, and center from Rogers. Anyways, you're over there in Calgary, but any thoughts on Bob McCowan? Yeah. Because I... Same thing.

So just basically Bob made too much money? Bob always made a lot of money, and he made the station a lot of money, and he redefined sports radio in this city. I don't want to underestimate Bob at all. I was on his show. He helped me. He was friendly to me and all that sort of stuff.

But at a certain point, the pain in the ass factor became too much. And when they have financial tightness i think they looked at and said you know what he's sort of just the the balance has switched and and and that was it for him and uh just again like like dawn kind of an instinctive understanding of how radio and sports worked and how to do his thing and uh yeah a lot of respect for bob and uh but yeah he walked into it and they look they they've they've signed this 5.2 billion dollar contract and they were counting on digital

revenues coming in about year four or five and that they would be able to take hockey night in canada away from cbc etc none of that has happened as we all know digital is very popular tons of people watching do you know you sell advertising if you were selling commercial tv advertising as opposed to what you do you know the difference of course and so that is kind of the analogy for where rogers is at with this thing trying to find money and what will happen to them if because huawei is as you know is a very political hot potato if they lose the huawei funding for some political reason and they i mean they're in big trouble each year with that contract for people who understand each year

they have to find another 25 uh million dollars extra so that the fee goes up every year that the annual fee and they have to find somebody new in the in the market and you you live in this market who's out there with dollars jingling around in their pocket that wants to chase hockey it's saturated totally and i think probably it's safe to say rogers was banking on uh the maple leafs playing uh more than uh well they had three rounds but that's it like over so far they played exactly three playoff rounds and i'll tell you another story i have worked at the fan in calgary which is you know the same company and they were very kind to me and i was on a lot i used to co-host a show there for a couple of years

etc uh two years ago when the when they had us three years ago in any event when they had the first year of the deal and none of the canadian teams got in i just wrote something for the website and sat on there i said this is really tough news for for rogers they've paid all this money and this is a disaster i was i was through with the station i was gone overnight wow gone overnight man and no wonder there's uh accusations of self-censorship going on uh like there's no memo floating around that somebody can say you know jesse brown can't wave a memo and say oh here's the memo roger says don't criticize uh the deal or whatever. When you're living in Toronto, and God, I had great times in Toronto, but when you're living in Toronto today, the media landscapes,

it's reduced from what it used to be, but it sort of looks the same way. You've still got the old radio stations and the numbers and the TV stations and people, et cetera. But when you live in a city like Calgary, and we're about 1.2 million, there's nothing left. Everything's gutted. There's a couple of people doing news at six o'clock, like they used to, but not many. When I moved to Calgary to work for the Herald, we had 11 sports writers and three editors. Now in Calgary, between the Sun and the Herald, which are basically the same thing, there's two full-time writers. The sports editors in Edmonton, everything else gets

done in Hamilton. There's nobody. Everything else is freelance and wire service. So the media landscape that you see here in Toronto, we think is paradise compared to what you would see in Montreal, you'd see in Ottawa, you'd see in Edmonton and even Vancouver. It's gutted. There's nothing there. It's nothing left. But isn't this why we need a public broadcaster like i know you're not the public broadcaster uh but but isn't this like more reason at least the public broadcaster would service and uh cover the local politics etc for a city like calgary and you know what the cbc radio show in calgary is number one but but it's because there's no competition in the number one here too though yeah in the talk well of course because I worked on it years ago. I put it there and there.

For sure. I'm kidding. But I think that there is a use for some of the things that CBC does. Morning Radio is one of them. I think that they should be allowed to commercialize and sell that to somebody. I just think that the days of the CBC having to be the news gatherer. Here's one of the things that bothers me about what happened with it is that they went and they asked for all the money and mr trudeau was kind enough to give him i think about 1.5 billion i think it was as as as a lump

something and because they said look we we got all these radio and tv stations and we need to keep them alive to do our mandate but they didn't use that money on radio and TV. What they did was they went and they bought a social media presence. All these people are being fired at the Globe and at the Star and the Sun. All are available. They're all being scooped up by CBC, and they're now writing columns and doing work online. So what they did was they went in the new generation, which is the new industry, which is going to be digital. They went and they basically bought a position and knocked all the small guys out that wasn't what the money was for and that's not what the cbc should be for cbc should be as i say the morning shows and some of those things and and

there is a there's a business a case for mate to be made for them but not the one they're doing now do you think cbc should be bidding on olympic game coverage well the olympic game coverage stuff these days is kind of goes cheap in canada because tsn and and and sportsnet are so committed financially i think they can get a deal and i think they can make an argument that it reflects something about canada you know the the gold medals and that the myths of canadian nationalism right that we live with right now right gotcha now changing gears briefly here uh we're this is a question license are they going to take you off the air no that's the one nice thing is they can't do you know they can't do that they have no uh no jurisdiction here colleen carlisle is a big fan of yours and

she wants to know where you buy your sweaters but there's some context before you answer she adds that you were the 6 p.m sports anchor when she was a kid and you always wore a v-neck sweater over a dress shirt. And all she can picture when she hears your name is a green sweater. Clothes are very important to Colleen Carlisle. So tell Colleen Carlisle, like, where did you buy your sweaters? Well, my wife was working in the schmutter at the time. And so I was able to get stuff she worked for.

In the what? Sorry? The schmutter, the needle trade. She was working for Thrifty, and she was working for Tip Top Taylor, the company Dilex. By the way, you know what Dilex stands for? Tell me. Damn, you're lousy excuses. Anyhow, Dilex was a big schmutter business.

My wife worked for them. That's where the sweaters came from. I'll tell you the story about sweaters. So I'm doing'm doing this and as i told you before i had no experience i knew nothing about it and i thought well great jacket tie like everybody i got to look like everyone else and about six months in i just told howard bernstein i said i feel uncomfortable i just i don't feel naturally he said well he said maybe try it without a tie or do something else or try a a a sweater once in a while. And I tried a sweater.

In fact, I think the first time I tried a sweater, I tried a sweater with a bow tie as a combination. And like the audience numbers, the audience phone lines went nuts. People going nuts about phoning about what's this guy with the sweater and the bow ties. And I thought, here I've been writing these great scripts. i've been giving insight into the blue jays and the maple leaves i've been smart i've been doing all this stuff and the only thing they care about is i'm wearing a sweater so colleen is hitting on what was one of my things in fact for my 35th birthday my wife threw a surprise party and everybody at the party wore a bow tie and a sweater a v-neck sweater so she's not

wrong. There you go. And thank you for remembering, Colleen. Now, did we get you to CBC News World yet? No. So you're at CBC Toronto and basically you're in the family. CBC News World just taps you on the shoulder. What happens there? Well, I mean, the thing that really changed my life at CBC and changed my life journalistically was the Alan Eagleson story. I used to write book reviews for the Toronto Star, and I was given a book called Net Worth by Alison Griffiths and David Cruz, and they were looking into Eagleson. They were the first thing.

And I read this book, and I said, I'm doing a daily sports show, and this is a great story. Why is no one doing it? And short story long, met carl brewer i met russ conway out of boston and the next thing i knew i was full tilt boogie into being an investigative reporter about the union head for the nhl and meeting all of my boyhood heroes like gordy howe and all these guys who's who got screwed on their pensions etc etc uh the result of doing that was that i won the gemini twice, as the top sportscaster in the

country, uh, for, for my work on that, uh, Eagleson finally eventually went to jail, um, for that. And, and that, that gave me a profile at CBC that I was sort of a, I was a, I was a goof who'd wear a bow tie and a sweater, but I could also do a story. Where are your Gemini awards right now? One of they're on the the mantle in our house and now that my grandkids are growing up it'll be sitting there and we don't even have gemini's anymore no no no that you're right there's no there goes screen awards or something like that one of them one of them has a blue jay hat on it because it was the year the blue jays won the first world series 92 and for the sir for the for the gemini thing that night they had uh

they had a thing where they had taped something with Stottlemeyer and Alomar down in Florida. And they read the nominees, you know, and the nominees for best sportscaster are, and they said, and the winner is, and they threw a ball.

And then they, the ball was thrown from the wings to the host in the studio down at the, at the convention center. And she read Bruce Dobigan for CBC. Nice. And I plots myself. I was so excited. Didn't they do something similar for Friday night with Ralph Ben-Murgy?

Like I have visions of like the first episode of Friday. Maybe it was after a Jay's play. I'm sure they used it a hundred times. So anyhow, that was how I won the first Gemini. And that brought me to news world and working across the street. Slaco Klimku, by the way. I don't know if he's still doing the film Institute, but he was at the Canadian film Institute for a long time after he left CBC. One of the few TV geniuses in Canada who understood TV in his guts, he, he taught me so much about

the business and he helped me discipline myself. And, and he was the first guy who ever heard, uh, say the expression. He took me for a walk one day i was complaining about not getting enough time to do a story and he took me for a walk like he was the monsignor just holding my elbow and he said bruce is this a hill hillside you want to die on i'd never heard the expression before so i said what does that mean he said you can win this battle but it'll be the last right and i said oh okay i i that i have that same sentiment every day almost where it's like is this really like a battle i can win this battle but do i want to fight this battle you know

you got to kind of choose your battle marriage every day the marriage every day is a hillside that you choose the one anyhow slanco took he had gone over to the national level at that point and he brought me over to be the the uh sportscaster after the national news, after Peter Mansbridge and all that. So I have a few more Alan Eagleson questions, but first I have to give you some gifts for coming all this way. And we are going to talk, I'll let people know,

if people on Periscope can see it here, but we're going to talk about cap and hand at some point. This is how salary caps are killing pro sports and why the free market could save them. It seems like baseball's got a free market, by the way, because I mean, look what the Yankees, it's a luxury tax, right? So the rich teams just cut a check or whatever.

And the basketball teams, the NBA teams are basically doing that on their own. The players are reorganizing the leagues around super teams. And if you want to get into it. Well, we'll get into it shortly. So hold on to that, because we're going to get into that.

And then I will be asking you, because you're the second Bruce I've had on in a short period of time, who is what i would call controversial on twitter but because bruce arthur yeah uh but you're on very different sides so it's fascinating to me the bruce's and their twitter behaviors i gotta ask you about that soon but i want to give you some gifts before this goes south i need to make sure i give you the gifts okay palma pasta yes who just hosted us at tmlx5 fantastic partners that's a yeah see how heavy it is that is a frozen meat lasagna that you are taking well you're not taking it home but your sons i'll take it to my son says he lives about

a mile from here right good good good good south etobicoke uh location by the lake there so that's for you you'll get back to me or your son will get back to you, whoever eats this, and you'll be telling me that's the best lasagna you've ever had. I love lasagna. Oh, one of my favorite foods of all time. Great Lakes Brewery is also in the hood here. They make fresh craft beer.

That's a six pack of fresh craft beer from Great Lakes for you. Good people at Great Lakes. I was just at their Christmas market. And yeah, I'm hoping to have uh this is for listeners uh tmlx7 will return to great lakes brewery because tmlx6 i'm talking code now bruce but tmlx6 is gonna be on queen street at the new bricks and mortar location for sticker you there's a toronto mike sticker for you bruce from sticker you.com shout out to sticker you because they told me yesterday i had a meeting with them

in liberty village they want to re-up for six more months good which is fantastic news so continue to support the fine people at sticker you.com thank you so you got all that i'm gonna play a christmas message from brian master when you were in toronto did you ever listen to brian master sure and hits of my youth here is that chum fm you would hear them i believe so yeah i don't i don't think i knew him but i certainly listened to him that would be like the era with like pete and geats yep and uh was john donnelly there ashby was there in the morning but he showed up in like mid-80s, I was like,

because he was on 1050. And then he switches over in like the mid-80s. But David Marsden is there. Oh, wow. At 104.5. He was Phil Lynn too, wasn't he? I think that was Geetz Romo. Did Geetz do Phil Lynn too?

I think so. Or was it Dave? I think I could be wrong because I was very, very, very young. But I've had Geetz over here, and I believe we talked about that being him, but he did a lot of characters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wonderful.

I always remember the day, and it was such a great radio station, Chum FM, and I was driving along the Gardner, and they played Gordon Lightfoot singing Beautiful or something. I said, uh-oh, somebody's had a format change. That was the day that I knew that Chum FM had changed from being a really rocking, interesting place to being corporate chills.

Right. And I love Gordon. I'm not saying that's a knock on Gordon, but just the playlist changed. It went from like album-oriented rock to like top 40 style maybe here. But here's some Brian Master. Hi, I'm Brian Master,

sales representative from Keller Williams Realty Solutions Brokerage. It's great to be on Toronto Might, and there's so much going on in the real estate market. Email me at letsgetyouhomeatkw.com. We'll get you hooked up to our client appreciation program. No obligation, great information once a month, and we'll stay in touch with you. And speaking of stay in touch, we're glad you're in touch with Toronto Might, and we're wishing you a very Merry christmas happy holidays however you're spending it and a very prosperous and healthy 2020 thank you brian again let's tell he used to be a broadcaster well he still is he's on uh the jewel oh yes oh okay so he's actually every day i think double duty he's boy he works hard Energy man. How can he do that?

Yeah. He was at, he was at Palma's kitchen on Saturday at TMLX five. He's a full of energy. He's a big Seahawks fan. He's a massive, massive NFL fan there. I'm a Lions fan.

So don't bring it up. So let's get you home at kw.com to get on Brian's excellent mailing list. So a lot of, I'll read a bunch of these. So Todd Morris chimes in and says, yes, he put like three exclamation marks when he heard you were coming on. Yes.

I need some stories on the Eagleson saga. And then I hope I say this right. Hermoscat Bob says, ask him how his old pal Alan Eagleson is. What's Eagleson doing these days? And what do the two of them do together for fun? Ha ha ha. And what else we got?

Well, yeah, there was a whole bunch. I think the two topics I got the most Bruce questions on were Alan Eagleson and Twitter. So what can you, what can you update? I mean, do you know what Alan Eagleson's up to? Well, as far as I know, I think he lives in the warm weather. He lives in Collingwood. And I think, I think he may still live in England.

He was going back and forth between them. Obviously, we're not exchanging Christmas cards. It just, you know, in some ways, in the same way that I look at Don Cherry, and I don't mean to say that Don Cherry did anything illegal, but looking at the two of them as just being unrepentant people who just were what they were, and Al was just brazen. He was just a brazen guy.

The stories that I could recount from it, because it was seven or eight years. I got death threats from people, all sorts of stuff along the way. Just a really fascinating guy. But I guess if this is the one story that I always tell people, it was they finally announced an FBI investigation into the NHLPA. This is, I think, the end of 92 going to 93. And Al had been forced into retirement. He had his retirement press conference up at the top of the, what was the hotel at Wellesley and Bay? I can't remember.

For a long time. He was up there and had a Windows on the World kind of thing. So he's having the press conference, and the guys are all around him. Hey, Al, tell us about why your most famous moment for team canada etc and then yours truly of course being a prick pops up and says uh al do you know you were a canadian patriot why is it then that you insisted on your salary and your pension being paid in u.s dollars because we knew that would bug him and he said to me well when did you stop beating your wife? Oh. Really?

And I said, it's not a problem. I never started. Oh, yeah, we've heard you do. Prove you don't beat your wife. And the whole media crowd is, and this is when the media crowd was a big media crowd. Right. All the TV, all the radio, all the print guys, everybody's there. And just, you could hear a pin drop. And I'd made an arrangement with Paul Hunter, who was our reporter then,

and who's now a big national reporter. You should get Paulul on something he's coming on with mary ormsby okay like next month okay well two of my best friends anyhow uh so i made arrangement with paul i said look i'm gonna ask him some questions because he wouldn't do an interview with me he knew i was on to him and i said i'm gonna ask a few questions and he's gonna shut me down so here's the one what here's number first three. Probably question four is the one you're going to have to ask him. And sure enough, he shuts me down. I'm not talking to you.

Blah, blah, blah. And so Paul's at the back, and he throws the next question that I've given him. And Al is just, he can't help himself. He just loves being with the media. And so he answers all these questions. And a lot of what he said that day ended up being included in the the fbi and the u.s justice department's uh complaint is their indictment of him wow when did you stop eating your and then he went on the next day with bill stevenson and bill said you do say that bruce dobigan beats his wife he's oh yeah sure and

they had a great old chortle about the thing oh my goodness my wife is he has a good sense of humor and we've that's kind of a lap line for us because obviously that's not the truth. Well, yeah, good to hear that. Now, my memory is because I'm younger, so I'm not that young, but I'm younger than people who remember the, you know, Alan Eagles,

most of the Alan Eagles. But I was a big fan of a series they aired. I don't know where it aired. I can't remember if it was CBC or Global or whatever. It was called Summit on Ice and it was a multi-part series on the 1972 summit series, which happened before my birth.

But I was fascinated by this mini series and I had it on VHS and I watched it all the time. And there was a massive segment about Alan Eagleson where he speaks on it. Uh, of course he pulls up his pants and there's a, you know, he's walking the ice and he goes, Oh,

I, I, my mom knew I was okay when I was adjusting my, my, my pants and big time, big segment with Alan Eagleson on. And so I watched it a hundred times. So after all this goes down,

your book, by the way, was The Defense Never Rests. Is that right? That was the first one. I wrote about two or three that involved things with Al, but that was the first of them. So at some point, this re-aired on television. I watched it on TV and it was completely re-edited. And basically all of Alan Eagleson was edited out

of this Summit on Ice documentary series on the 72 Summit series like it never happened and i was like if i had this version i would it's funny how we kind of you know re rewrite history when things revise history in a short period of time and i was like like if my kid watches that series to learn what i learned about something he wouldn't even know about this alan eagleson part yeah one of the one of the tragedies about him is that after the 72 series and the way he listened he was brazen he went nose to nose with with the KGB guys he he had he decided to go in a kind of a straighter way he could have been the prime minister of the country he had that kind of dynamism etc but he just couldn't help himself he ended ended up getting into, he did little things at the start.

And then, well, nobody complained about that. So now we do sort of slightly bigger things. And by the end of it, he's got like Mike Gillis. And I did a book with Mike, several books with Mike Gillis, in particular one called Ice Storm about his years in Vancouver. In any event, Mike's career ends and he's been paying in for disability insurance. And Al Eagleson was his agent. Al comes to him and says, oh, yeah, we got your disability insurance.

We've had to take $150,000 of it off for legal costs. And it was a hard fight. And we had this. And of course, we found out through our research, and this is particularly Russ Conway found this out, that there was no such thing, that the whole thing had been approved. He stole a guy's disability insurance. This is a guy who could have had everything and he couldn't help himself he had to play the angle man man so okay so the alan eagleston so there's a few books out there on it and if people want to revisit all

that but this is basically what kind of built your rep in this sports media game well and i got interested in in in sports as a business thing my thing is that every year somebody wins the super bowl every year somebody wins the stanley cup and it's always a good story an interesting story but there's one every year a story like alan eagleson comes along once in a generation and and there were only about four or five of us who are really into it and we used to look at each other and say what is it we're missing we must be missing something because nobody else is touching this story what what are we missing right And then finally, there was a trial. Gillis took him to court and he was under oath. And I thought, well, this is it.

My career is about to end. Al's going to tell me what I've missed and why I've been an idiot all these years. And he had nothing. He was bluffing. He tried to bluff in court. And I sat there and I turned to Sue Foster, who was Carl Brewer's companion.

And I said, we got him. We got him. He's got nothing. And we just laughed. In the court. We laughed because we finally realized that we had, and we realized that all these people who hated us for doing this story, and that would include hockey night in Canada, by the way, they wanted nothing to do with me at CBC for doing that. All those people had been wrong. Wow. As a journalist, a story and to have it come out that way, it's like one in a million. So it got me interested in doing more stuff about agents

and corrupt people in hockey and other sports. And well, the business of sports, which I'm personally interested in, and that'll tie in nicely to Cap and Hand, which we'll get to in a brief moment, because I want to ask you about FOTM. I mentioned Vic Rauter's definitely listening to us right now. Hello again, Vic. Steve Paikin is definitely listening to us.

He's become a big fan of this podcast. Tell me about your relationship with Steve and the show you guys did on The Fan back in the day. Well, he and I got to know each other at CBLT, and we're friends. Steve loves sports. And we got the, i guess it was the 9 to 11 slot on the fan uh at that time nelson millman was running it and we did two years of it and and steve steve is a hockey or sports fan he's not he's not into the the business of it and my

job was to be the sports guy right and and steer it and steve's was to be kind of the outside an educated outsider asking questions about it we we had a lot of fun with it. We never made any money at it, but it was fun to do for a couple of years. And you had a unique deal, right? Did you sell your own advertising? Yeah, it was a cost-sharing thing. Those days, people did that a lot.

They still do that a lot in the off hours, off-peak hours. So we did it, and it didn't work out for a lot of money, but it was fine, and we had a good time. Occasionally, there was one time where Steve didn't know who the number one F1 driver in the world was, and he was making fun of the guy's name, and I was trying to give him one of these, stop, don't go there, it's not going to work out for you. And then there was another time where I was trying to say that the news director of the station was a real um what was a philosopher or something oh yeah and

i used i used the wrong word and and and uh it was not certainly not a word i wanted to apply to the guy and and so steve turned to me and said did you just call him a you know what and i said no no i said he's a he was a podiatrist oh yeah i can i know yes i know it where do you yes it was a podiatrist well i said he's a pederast. We're doing live stuff, and live stuff happens. And so Steve immediately said, what did you say? And I said, he's a podiatrist. He's a podiatrist.

So that's our running joke for years. Yeah, so Steve's a good man. He sends me notes periodically about episodes he thoroughly enjoyed, and I hope he enjoys this one here. What was the name of your show, by the way? What's that? Double Play. Double Play. And then, of course, Dobrig and Pagan, enjoys this one here. What was the name of your show by the way? What's that? Double Play. Double Play. And then of course Dobig and Pagan DP. Double Play.

Yeah it was fun. We had good guests. We had our producer Rich Martin and Howard Bernstein helped us with that a little bit too. We had good guests and listen having the fan phoning up and seeing it from the fan helped you get people as well. So we had a good time but all things good things come to an end eventually, and that did.

So why do you end up leaving the CBC? All of the sports content on News World was canceled. The year I won my second Gemini, they canceled all my shows. 96. Yeah, they canceled them all next year in 97. And they were kind enough to offer me the job doing morning radio sports for almost half the stations across the country. But it meant getting up at four in the morning. And I just couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it. I loved it. There

were so many great markets. And I was working with Andy Barry. I was working with all sorts of people across the country. I just couldn't do it. And so we started looking around, and I got an offer from the – I was doing something else, and I met the managing editor of the Calgary Herald, and she said, would you like to come to Calgary? And I said, yeah, and I'll grow a third eye too. Why do I want to do that? But I started talking to people, then I went to visit the place, and I thought my kids were all between – I'd say about eight or nine.

How many kids you got? I got three. My eldest guy, Evan, I'd say about eight or nine. How many kids you got? I got three. My eldest guy, Evan, works at TSN. He's a sports genius. And he's got a book he's working on right now too. So at some point, maybe you can get him on. Oh, yeah. What does he do at TSN?

He runs their sports, what do you call it? Their Twitter site for research. He's the nighttime researcher, does all the boards, feeds. I want to say Sports Center. It's not Sports Center. It's Stat Center. That's it. TSN Stat Center.

Evan runs that. He's there till one in the morning, watches all this stuff, has a photographic mind. Oh, cool. Understands all that stuff. So I have three kids. My younger son, Reese, lives in Calgary. He's got two kids now. And my daughter, Claire, lives there. And she is got two kids now and my daughter claire lives there

and she is dating eric duhachik's son oh wow i know speaking of calgary and speaking of the hat and i have some good laughs over that now my i've had a lot of not duhachik but i've had like steve simmons and dave schultz and howard burger those three gentlemen have been on this show and they all worked in calgary of duhachik uh at some point in like the early mid-80s or something before they all ended up here. Yeah, no, no. The sports reporting business is the bitchiest, nastiest, backstabbingest bunch of people you've ever met. I mean, Al Strachan to this day hates me for reasons which I have no idea.

He hates lots of people. Oh, I know, but he hates me with a particular passion. Does he? Oh, yeah. Only because you know who he's got the most intense hate on for is the other Bruce I mentioned. Bruce Arthur.

Unbelievable. Al Strachan's hate on for Bruce Arthur. Well, Hat will say, and obviously this gets into the Twitter stuff. Do you want it to Twitter now and then do the cap at him? Yeah, okay. Hat will say that there are only three conservatives

in the sports reporting business. Steve Buffery, me, and Strack. And he says, and you and Strack don't get along. He says, there's only three of you. I said, I'm okay with Strack. I have no issues with him. And then it turns out, irony of ironies, guess who buys a place just down the street from us in Florida?

It's got to be a stracking al stracking i go out on the golf course and who's out there is strack okay i find it interesting i did not realize stracking did not like you because you i would think he would uh would like you yeah i would say you'd be right up his alley actually uh the funny thing was when i was doing all of these investigative stories and i'm sure they were getting heat from their bosses like, hey, how come the hair and teeth guy with the sweaters and the bow ties is doing that story? Why aren't we doing that story?

So I'm sure they got some agitation from them. I didn't brag that I had it. I just did the story. And I remember Al making some disparaging remark one day, guys who wear pancake makeup and pretend they're reporters and all this sort of stuff, and I knew exactly what he was talking about. And then within a year or two, of course, there's Al on Hockey Night in Canada wearing pancake makeup and, you know, being a TV guy.

Right, yes, yes. And I think when that TV job ended for Al Strachan, and this is my opinion, he seemed to become a little bitter, at least the Twitter persona I see of Al Strachan. And I am, yeah. And by the way, shout out to Steve Buffery, who's also an FOTM.

And I like to prove, some people have accused me of being a lefty. I think it's because I cycle, okay? If I cycle, and maybe it's because I cycle and I didn't like Rob Ford, therefore I must be a lefty or whatever. But Steve, I like to say, with Looskies, who's a little right,

and he was at TMLX5, that I like to think with Lewskies, who's a little right, and he was at TMLX5, that I like to think I can be friendly and chummy with somebody who has different politics than I do. It's not like it's a pick a side. I've known people on both sides. I used to be more liberal. I like to say the liberal party left me, not the other way around. But you took a hard right turn here. Well, I moved to the West.

the other way around. But you took a hard right turn here. Well, I moved to the West. And the biggest thing for me is when I talk about a lot of these issues, I'm mostly talking about how the media covers politics, not only in Canada, but in the United States.

And that our media people, and as you know from Bruce and those people, the sports guys are the worst, are the biggest liberal squishes you can get. I mean, it's a real liberal glee club on the sports side and in the media in general. But you don't mean big L liberal. You mean like both because you mean progressive.

In Ontario, large L liberal means something in Canadian. In America, small L. But to me, the last three or four years have been a disgrace what's happened with the media in terms of reporting. And look, I'm not making alibis for the Fox News people. They're cheerleaders too. But we've completely lost the integrity of media

and their ability to do what you just said, do stories on things that they disagree with and be positive. Go and do a story on something you don't agree with. I say free speech isn't for people you agree with. Free speech is for people you disagree with. That's the beauty of it. That's how it works. And I think the media, we have lost that idea of how to cover things that we don't necessarily agree with. And to me, there's a reason for it, which is partly

that a lot of the kids who are going into media these days, in the old days, you would graduate from Ryerson someplace, and then you'd go to Arnprior, you'd end up in Estevan, whatever, and you worked around in some small towns, and you saw some other places and some other things. What's happening today is kids are going right from the graduating class at Ryerson, and the next thing you know, they're writing a column for the CBC, or they're writing a column for somewhere, and they just, you know, they've come from a very liberal kind of environment, which is what academics are like, and they're going into another liberal place, which is what the media is. So I'm highly unsurprised that people who go and do that become liberal, because they're trying to, you know, get

along to do stuff. And I think it's been a real loss for us. When I started in radio, we had people like Vic Copps. Vic was the cop reporter, the police reporter. Those guys were just about whatever the story was. There was no arch crusade. This wasn't Woodward and Bernstein. This was let's just do a story.

And a lot of what I report when I'm critical on twitter is about how the media has basically bought a whole narrative and they just will not see the other side no i mean i'm when i think of the cbc i think of for example the aforementioned donald s cherry who like forever was a like a face of the cbc and it's a good you've made a great point with one of the reasons i think that Don hung on for so long is when CBC would go up to Ottawa, especially when there's

a conservative government, to argue for their grant. People say, you lefties, you pinkos, you all this sort of stuff. They say, hey, we have Don Cherry,

the ultimate redneck. He's on the, so you know, we have a cross section. And I think Don helped their redneck quotient when they needed it. Wasn't that Rex Murphy's job?

It is now, or what it used to be. I can't keep track. I know he doesn't do the Cross Canada checkup anymore. I think he had some health issues too that also may be affected. But Rex is conservative in an intelligent way.

Don's a blunderbuss. Some of my conservative friends are always surprised I actually would listen to Rex. I like the way he turns a phrase like i can you know he doesn't you know he's a great writer he turns it for i like good liberal progressive writers if they can write but so much of it now today has just turned into polemic and turned into you know that sort of stuff and you know the examples that we're seeing now in the united states of the two i say it's like the two railway trains are going alongside each other.

There's the Fox one, and then there's the MSNBC, CNN one, and they just have nothing to do with each other. It's not the same country they're reporting on. And that makes it very difficult for a voter or a citizen, and I'm critical of both. And you speak as a man who owns property in that country. I feel that might give you a...

I have a small part of our family place, which I'm just about to sell to my brother. Okay. I was that might give you... I have a small part of our family place which I'm just about to sell to my brother. Okay. I was trying to give you some license there. I'd like to own in America

and get my green card and live in Florida with no state income tax. Right, you'd have to. Yes, I know because my neighbor does this and he has to come back for like one day or something

to avoid some tax thing. You can't stay away. Well, you don't get your health care. If you stay away too Well, you don't get your health care. If you stay away too long, you don't get the health care. You'll learn all you see. What do we call OHIP in Alberta? I should know this from my wife, but I don't know.

Alberta Health Insurance. There's no acronym for it. There's no AHIP. And we pay more. And again, here I am as a small C conservative, but we pay more per capita in Alberta for our health care, and we get less than you do in Ontario. So it's not like I'm a big believer in, oh, if you only put a conservative in,

you'll get better health care, you'll get better government. I just think that there are things that are endemic to government which make it difficult for them to do the job properly. Okay, let me get to these questions before I, because they're all related to this. But first of all, shout out to Steve Leggett who did ask a question. He wanted to know your thoughts on Don Cherry, and I asked it because I had the same thought, and then I want to give you credit for that, Steve. Thank you. But Jim Allen writes in and says, for Bruce,

what happened in your life that caused the hard and often bitter turn to the right? And in brackets, in parentheses, he puts, may not want to ask that one first. So I waited until the hour and four minute mark to ask your question. Jim, what happened in your life? This is Jim's words, not mine, but I'm curious. But again, it was an important experience moving to the West. I'd grown up in Montreal, and I'd sort of had a feeling about central Toronto as a Montrealer looking at it from outside. I lived in Ottawa for a little while as growing up. But when I moved to Calgary, I lived in Ottawa for a little while as growing up.

But when I moved to Calgary, I got the sense of looking at the other in Canada with fresh eyes. And I just felt like that people out there were not being heard and not being respected in what they did. And that kind of, I empathize more with those kind of people, the everyday people out there than I had before. And one of the stories that I'll tell, i won't mention the name of the executive but when i went to a big cbc executive until i was moving to calgary he said what are you going to calgary for i said you're a montreal a toronto guy an urban guy what do you want to go there with those people and i said wait a minute this is the guy who's running the cbc and this is his personal opinion is what

are you going to with those people i thought and when i went out there i got into i got into some dust-ups with people out there about this about the rodeo they all told me go back east with your attitudes about you know killing horses in the rodeo and all that sort of stuff so it's not like i'm all i've always been one way okay yeah the road that's a stampede is that yeah yeah of course of course i would like to go to that one day uh they will allow a toronto guy to come to the Calgary Stampede. It's especially done for Toronto guys to gross them out about all these animals. It was fun. That's another thing that I got to meet

was some of the cowboys and the cowboy kind of don't tread on me attitude in Alberta. I've spent one day in Calgary which was lovely. I sat in the Jamaican bobsled. I did a few fun things. I was going to Edmonton butled. I did a few fun things. It was on my way. We went, I was going to Edmonton,

but we flew to Calgary and then spent some time. You're with COP, what's called Winsport now. Okay. It's a great place to live, but right now it's a very sad place to live because we've lost about 50 to 100,000 jobs in the city of Calgary. And is this, we need a pipeline is this the uh well the

whole industry has been has let me put it this way in the same period that this has happened to alberta the americans have gone from strength to strength in terms of the energy industry they they have seen the opportunity that's available through fracking, through other things. And America is now energy independent, richer than it's ever been energy-wise, doesn't seem to be deciding to kill itself for the green movement. And they seem to have done it. The Norwegians just the other day, they've opened up a whole new refinery and they're doubling the number of ships that they're sending full of Norwegian oil to the east. In Canada, we seem to have decided that we're going to shame and humiliate the industry there and to basically destroy it. And it's pretty much destroyed. Now that people like in Canada have moved to the United States

and moved out, the tax base and all that sort of stuff, we'll never get that money back. And people in Alberta are going like, well, why didn't our government stand up for us? Really? Because of the end of the world? These people, the end of the world people have decided that Alberta is the one place we've got to crush for it. And they've had lots of help from Americans, too. I mean, we've had the Tides Foundation. We've had the Rockefellers and people like that pouring lots of money into Alberta politically to make us. Neil Young going up, oh, it looks like Hiroshima up there.

I mean, it's just been so pathetic what they've done to the industry, and it's costing Canada money too. I mean, you know, the other thing I talk about with Quebec, where I grew up and my brother lives there, and my mother and father are buried there, and, you know, generations are buried there. People in Alberta are really resentful that they've been sending money to Quebec for a long time, like $12 billion a year from Alberta. And when they finally needed help from Alberta about putting the pipeline through, Quebec said, go fish. You know, that's not what partners do. I'm always amazed this country works, like, for as long as it has.

I just find it, because it's so many, it's just so different depending where, you know, like the plights of the prairies in the West versus, you know, and BC is a whole different thing. And then you have your Maritimes and your Atlantic provinces, and then you got Quebec and you got Ontario. Like, it's kind of amazing. My brother, who's a professor, a professor of history in PEI, he says the only things that hold Canada together today is hockey and the equalization payments. Honestly, I was about to say, when I think about the importance of Olympics and why, you know, I feel it's, you know, you could argue it could be part of the CBC mandate and everything. I think of the 2010, even though CTV actually covered these Olympics, but the 2010 Olympics and the Golden Goal by Sidney Crosby. And it really feels like there's a moment there where it really feels like all of us with these differences. And I hear, again, my wife's family's from Edmonton and I hear about Alberta talks about, you know,

separation, et cetera. And we all went, we have that with Quebec all the time. And, and it's kind of like, there's a moment there with hockey where we actually do feel. We agree on some.

United. Yeah. I wrote, I wrote one of my books was about the hockey stick and it was supposed to be about the symbolic vision of a hockey stick for Canada, what it meant and and the history of the hockey stick is the history of canada and and that's one of the reasons we keep coming back to hockey because it speaks to us about who we are and where we came from but at the same time there's lately uh you know uh people of color and uh uh non-whites will say have there's been a you know the don cherry thing really

exemplified it and there's been other examples the coach you got bill peters uh and and what what he said to the the gentleman with his rap music and the dressing room and everything like it it really it feels like maybe it's not so much canada maybe it's white canada it there's a there's a a feeling like it it might not be the unifier we think it is in especially in such diverse cities as toronto a lot of stuff got they got away with a lot of stuff and not just not just hockey i mean anybody who thinks that there aren't vicious nasty coaches in soccer or that there aren't women coaches who treat their women athletes poorly over the years it's fooling themselves but yes it's it's it's something that we've come to a realization that this is not the way to treat people. This is not the way that you, and you don't get the

best results out of them. That isn't the way to get the best results out of people. And, uh, you know, I'm working on a project right now with, uh, helping a guy write his biography and, and we're just talking about that. And he said his leadership style was to leave people alone. He said, because, uh, the, the, the people who, who couldn't do the job would make it themselves evident. And I, no amount of training could make them better. And He said because the people who couldn't do the job would make themselves evident, and no amount of training could make them better. And he said the people who are really good, they'll be harder on themselves than you could ever be.

And so that was his kind of leadership style, and that's how he evolved, and I think sort of applies here to how we coach these days. And I feel badly. I mean, the thing I don't understand is I've known Akeem for a long time, reported on him for a long time. And how did Bill Peters not know that this was a guy who was sensitive about these issues? And how did he think that standing and addressing him, saying these things, was going to fly?

You know, I mean, and there's lots of these guys, lots of them. I mean, God bless. I know Mark Crawford and Crow and those guys. And, you know, he's another one they're roasting. But there's lots of these guys who have done this. Although he technically still has his job as we speak. But I haven't checked my phone in an hour. So anyway, it is a purging that's worthwhile.

Yeah, absolutely. Now, Ron Wilk wants to know if your pro-Trump support is just an act. Listen, I think Trump is his own worst enemy I think it speaks to how America has gone so far that people feel like he's the guy to speak for them that they've gone through so many people who've disappointed them that they feel that Donald Trump is the guy to speak for them and the fact that I always say that Mario what's the

name the the senator from florida mario rubio marco rubio marco rubio could have been the president of the united states all he had to do was to adopt the immigration issue the way trump did he'd have had all of the the the um all those people the conservatives the the the tea party people he'd have had them all but because he was a creature of Washington and the things that are approved and not approved, he couldn't go there. And Trump just basically picked up all this loose change that was lying around and put it together,

and all of a sudden it was enough to become the president. In fact, Tim Phelan says, ask him why he has turned into a Trump apologist. Apologist. I'm not an apologist for him. Apologist. I'm not an apologist for him. He's got such a strong hand to play, and every day he plays it poorly. I mean, again, it could have been Marco Rubio.

Somebody else could be doing the same sort of thing. The way he expresses himself and the Don Cherry-esque way he expresses himself, I think it's a disgrace. I think he doesn't have to do that. You know, I always say that the analogy is that in the Don Cherry-esque way he expresses himself. I think it's a disgrace. I think he doesn't have to do that. You know, I always say that the analogy is that the day after Tom Brady wins a Super Bowl, he doesn't spend the day running down the guy he just beat.

But Donald Trump seems to think that he's beaten a guy, now he's going to hit him even harder the day after. There's no point to it. You won. Go on, move on. And, you know, the pushback against him, that's another story. But I don't admire and approve of him unconditionally, but he understood that there was an equation

to be elected president of the United States by adopting these positions and being loyal to the people who stayed behind him. And you've got to give him credit for his understanding of that. He beat Hillary Clinton. He beat the Obamas. He beat all of these people who are supposed to be the smartest people in the world. So he can't be completely done.

Well, he beat Hillary Clinton. It's hard to argue he beat the Obamas. It's a stretch. I mean, Obama campaigned against him in the last weeks. He came out very strongly. No, true. But, you know, it's hard to say he beat the Obamas. They did.

Yes, of course, Barack Obama campaigned hard for Hillary. Absolutely. And as we're now finding out, Barack Obama was also part of the people who sanctioned the investigations into Trump that followed afterwards. He basically told the CIA and those people, the FBI, go ahead, go after him. But just don't tell me anything because I don't want to get blamed. I have to plead ignorance on that one. I haven't. It'll come out. It'll come out. Okay.

I have to plead ignorance on that one. I haven't... It'll come out. It'll come out. Okay. So are you rooting? Are you hoping? Are you personally hoping, Bruce, that Donald Trump wins again in 2020?

Oh, absolutely. Just... Because you're an agent of chaos. A little bit. A little bit. It just would be the funniest thing that the assembled, the right people, the proper people, all assembled,

cannot find a way to beat this guy. It's just... It's hysterical to me. My theory now is that the Democrats are going to get to the convention, and they're not going to have anybody with enough votes, and they're going to have to figure out, okay, who can we get to beat this guy? Might be a Michelle Obama, might be Oprah. They're going to find somebody because they're obsessed about beating him. But all these bright people, and they have all the money and all the advantages. They have the CIA working for them.

They have the FBI working for them. They still can't beat this guy. It's incredible. So it sounds to me, if I'm reading between the lines, you sort of appreciate Trump as like a disruptor. Yeah, he is. He is. And it's a time in which we need to be able to look

at where we're going. Canada, too, the the same way about our establishment is we've entrusted so much to our establishment our bureaucracies do we trust them going forward and that's the the discussion that's going on right now do we trust Justin Trudeau and and and the quote-unquote family compact that that he represents do we trust them to go forward and that's the debate we're having and I'm not saying that that one side or the other is all right or all wrong but i think that they're it's it's a really important time for us to have that discussion so you're like the joker in the dark night you just want to watch the world burn no no i don't want to watch it burn and and you

know there are there listen a second term of trump and if he gets to put more supreme court justices in i just can't imagine what the left will do. They'll go nuts. Oh, man. Okay. As if they haven't gone nuts enough. In your opinion, Trump has been a better president than Barack Obama. I think history will record him as a more impactful president. I don't think he's been able to do a lot of the things he's wanted to do because he spent the whole time being under investigation by the cops. But I think that historically we'll see him as maybe like an andrew jackson uh andrew jackson who is also a dick yeah well he did lots of stuff in history but he's also a person who we we see as a symbolic president he ended the hegemony of the eastern

presidents at a time when it was all boston and new york and philadelphia guys and he was from nashville and and trump represents something else in the evolution of the presidency for whether it's for good or bad uh obama was significant for being the first black president but i don't think any of his policies are going to have any great long-standing impact the iran thing i don't think is going to last certainly obamacare is kind of falling apart. So right now he's more impactful. But remember what Obama inherited in 2009. Right. Just remember what this economic world we live in was like in January 2009.

We forget it's only 10 years later, but yeah, consider what he got the train back on the tracks. Well, he had some help and all that, but certainly there's never been a depression that didn't wasn't followed by a boom and he was able to take advantage of that i think the most interesting statistic about trump and obama is that one in three obama voters switched their vote to trump in 2016 think about that people who voted for the first black president in the united states then turned around and voted for Donald Trump.

Try to square that circle. Quite the country, quite the country. But it shows people are willing to think of different things. Now, David, I actually met David once. Give him a Toronto Mike sticker. So that's, I know, so David is definitely an FOTM. And I actually will, because I follow him on Twitter, I see when he and you tweet back and forth. And he says and and I'd like to know that's always going after me

I'd love to know why he uses terms such as Pocahontas Pocahontas I don't say okay tell you yeah clarify because I'm just reading the question but please uh well Pocahontas is the nickname for Elizabeth Warren who pretended she had native blood. So F-A-U-X. And Cajontas. Because she claims to be an indigenous person and she's not? She's not. Well, she finally did a blood test and she had 1% of her blood was Indian blood and they found it was more like Indians from South America. But she used that thing to get a job at Harvard

as a professor making about $500,000 a year as a professor. So when you use these terms, you're not slating our First Nations people at all. This is mainly because you feel Shigi took advantage of some DNA loophole or something. No, I'm making fun of a person who's hitting all of the checkboxes on the liberal.

I'm sure the Harvard application form has all of those check marks, and she figured them out a long time ago. Okay, before we move to cap in hand here, which would be a great holiday, great Christmas gift for everybody. It is. Anyone who likes the business of sports here. Corrado. Corrado actually didn't want to publicly tweet this. DMed it to me. Corrado, I love that

name. What happened to the, again, I'm reading Corrado's words here. What happened to the good journalist that did such great work on the Alan Eagleson story, now seemingly just a Twitter troll that is often mean spirited in his comments? Please address this, Bruce. I don't know really how to address it in less than half an hour. I mean, it's the evolution of media and all of the things I said before. Most of what I'm reflecting is my disappointment in what's happened to media, which we need so much to do the job. I'm patting myself on the back, but the job that I was able to do on Alan Eagleson or the job that Woodward and Bernstein did on Nixon,

it's so important that we have that vital media and that they still have integrity. And they don't have integrity anymore. And that's all I'm pointing out to people like Corrado is that I'm not saying that I think that I'm brilliant. I'm just saying that I think that we've lost the narrative. But you do appreciate why many of us have not difficulty swallowing your Twitter persona.

And I'm not suggesting it is a persona. I'm sure it is actually you. But it does. Troll is the word that Corrado uses. I like to mock people, yes. Like you're out there to agitate a little bit, maybe. Poke the bear a bit. I mock.

Get a reaction. The thing is, and because this is half of the title of your show, I mean, Toronto is a frame of mind. It's a frame of reference, and it doesn't necessarily travel. If you get beyond the outcroppings of Toronto, you get to other

parts of the country, you find out that people do see things in a different way. But Toronto is a... I think that TIFF is Toronto Toronto and Toronto is TIFF now. I just think the city has become an entire film festival full of people signing and SJWing and all that sort of stuff. It's a very, I mean, I'll call it the GTA

because it will include like Mississauga and Brampton and some Pickering and stuff. But I would say the GTA is a massive Bruce, like just not only in geography but in terms of numbers of like people that diversity yeah well definitely diversity but it's just it's just you can't say toronto is tiff because so much of toronto is so far removed from tiff like that seems to be like a like a downtown toronto segment i think it's i think it's the media and the culture that that that comes out that is the TIFF part.

And it informs all the normal average Torontonians. It informs them what to do and what to think about issues. And it makes it quite clear that if you don't go with the flow, that your life will be miserable and people will go on Twitter and make your life miserable. So you're never moving back. You're a Calgary man now. Well, if I have two kids here who have grandkids, I can move to Southern Ontario.

I would move to Calgary if two of my kids went there, my grandkids, I can move to Calgary. And you know what? This house here, you can buy it for about a third of what it costs here in Toronto. I keep telling people, move out there. Great house. How's the cycling there?

Excellent. I hear good things about the cycling in Calgary. The bike paths along the river and down to Fish Creek Park, every weekend, you'd love it, and you can go forever, too. Maybe I'll talk to my wife and say, well, she'd want to go to Edmonton. An Edmontonian wouldn't want to move to Calgary, or as we call it. Although she's really a Toronto, she's been here for, I don't know, 15 years now.

I think she likes it here. We call it Redmonton down in Calgary. Because they voted in all of the liberals. Actually, they voted in the NDP people in the provincial. Yeah, yeah, right. Right, right, right, right, right. All right, my friend. I need to know.

So who's Ryan Gauthier? Ryan Gauthier is a professor of sports law. When I decided to do this book, I needed somebody who understood the law and could express it in a way that didn't sound like me stumbling and bumbling as Chris Berman would say. The font size on Ryan Gauthier is about 50% the font size on Bruce Dovigan here. That's the publisher's decision, not me. Not me. Tell me, please, about Cap and Hand.

Okay. So I started out to write a book about the 12 most significant contracts in sports history. I wanted to show the evolution of sports contracts and how it had changed everything. I went to my publishers, the good people at ECW, my good friend, Mr. Holmes over there. And he said, I like the idea, but he said, I need more. He said, what's the big picture? What are you saying? And so I decided that I would say a little bit more. And my feeling is that

the salary caps are basically killing sports today. The idea of the franchise model that Gary Bettman represents is over and that the soccer people in Europe are the ones who understand where pro sports as an industry is going. So I decided I would chronicle the history of the franchise model, locking down sports to get salary caps, all those kind of things to show where we are today and what could be a better model. And as we talked about earlier when we were talking about the NBA and some of the other baseball leagues,

they are sort of evolving into that. Yeah, fascinating because, I mean, as a Leafs fan, I find the salary cap rather annoying. I agree. Why shouldn't Toronto be able to eat what it kills? Why should it not? Why should it have to? Yeah, like the Yankees, right? Yeah.

And why should it have to sort of cut its coat so it looks like Winnipeg? I mean, I love Winnipeg and I love the Flames. I don't think I have the Flames in the first division in my book, in my proposal. But the idea is to look at what the soccer people do in Europe. And that is let the big dogs eat, let the powerful franchises be the powerful franchises, because that's frankly, in this day and age, that's what people want to watch. The idea of the crest and the chest and the stuff that we grew up with is ending. It's now about, hey, where's Ronaldo playing? Can I see Messi this weekend on the TV? Right. Et cetera. And they've understood where it's going.

Gary Bettman and his friends don't understand where it's going and where it's been and where it's going. But at least it does, I mean, it does give a fighting chance to like a, you know, a Phoenix Coyote. Who cares? I'm the Leafs fan here. Of course you are. I care very little about that.

And I'm not saying the Phoenix Coyotes shouldn't have a team, but if their economic model says that they shouldn't be in the first division, play in the second division. And people, oh, well, why would we want to do that, et cetera? You know what? If it's a choice between no team and having a team where you get, let's say Sidney Crosby starts as a 16-year-old in the second division, as Hopkins in soccer, then all of a sudden you go, well, that's okay.

I could maybe do that. What I like, I like the contracts that's shaped professional sport. Like you start with Babe Ruth basically, and you go to LeBron James. And I think, I mean, sports fans, of course, we'd love this book, but anyone, if you're at all interested in the, how the sausage is made, if you will, like if it's more, if you care more about, you know, yeah, right. Who won, who lost, who scored, who, you know,

that's all one side of the equation. But I'm personally interested in a side of the equation but i'm personally interested in a lot of the businesses speaking of bob mccowan earlier didn't he have a show called the business of sports as i recall several times he probably did yeah it's probably coming coming soon to a chorus network near you so anyhow my feeling and people say well who wants to to root for a league where only the top teams win and i said well look at college sports in the united states football it's ohio state it's out it's alabama it's all the top people the networks love it the advertisers love it the fans tune in because secretly even though they say

oh i'm a lee fan or i'm this you know what we want to see the best on the best now we don't want to waste our time with 32 teams in a league we're talking about 20 24 teams maybe let's have the best on the best all the time where can people find a cap in hand if they want to pick it up for their mom or dad or grandma or grandpa or brother or sister or if you have if you have a a small neighborhood bookstore go in and if they don't have it they will order it for you i would prefer you buy it that way to support your local bookstore uh if you have to go there there are lots of websites that supply books. And obviously, the Amazon model is one of them.

But I'd rather you, if you could, go to a small bookstore and buy it there. And you can also go on my website, brucedobiganbooks.ca. Now, I'm going to tie up some- All the books are on there, by the way. All the books. brucedobigan.ca. Yeah. brucedobiganbooks.ca. Right nine. BruceDobiganBooks.ca.

Right. BruceDobiganBooks.ca. Okay, I'm going to tie up a few loose ends here before I play us out. You've been fantastic, but a couple of loose ends. So you're at the Calgary Herald. Why do you leave for the Globe and Mail? I'd always wanted to write for the Globe and Mail.

It's been the Parnassus of, of journalism in Canada. And, and I, I always liked Bill's, um, Bill's, uh, column and my friend Tom Maloney became the sports editor and he said, would you like to do that? And I said, yeah, I mean, we, we, we want, we want to, as I said before, we want to see the best playing and I wanted to play for the best. They had a FOTM, uh, Dave Schultz doing it for a while, but then they sort of like pulled them into like beat covering hockey game

or something like that. I personally find it curious how little attention, like again, that role has disappeared from all the, the Toronto Star, you have Chris Elkovich

doing it, Long Gone. The Sun had, was it Terry Koshan who was doing it? Maybe for a while. Rob Longley, I think, did it for a while. I think i think i meant yeah well yeah they're they're all rob longley hated my work initially yeah no that's okay it's okay no he longley's been here he sat in that

chair he's a good guy good guy uh he's allowed and uh william houston of course and what's did well now remind me did marty york ever do that or no? Not at the Globe. He tried to. What do you think of Marty York these days? Like, do you have any Marty York opinions? Well, if you're talking about it, if you want to see a troll,

if you, if you don't know what, what Twitter is, and you want to know what a troll is on Twitter, Marty, just go follow Marty. He just, he hates everything to do with any establishment Toronto fan.

So go to, go to Marty. Well, it's not only Toronto, but really it's, really it's Rogers. I've noticed the the anything Rogers touches. If the Jays could start the season 45 and 0 and Marty Yerke will tell you.

They're overrated. They're way over. Yes. Right. Seriously, because Rogers owns that team. He used to come on. I used to have him on every Monday during the baseball season when he covered the Blue Jays. I used to have him on as a CFL guy.

I like Marty just because he's a pisser. He just he didn't mind getting in people's grill and lots of people didn't like him but you know what that's the essence of our business is to have a profile and that was Marty at the time I don't know what's going on with him personally now well what happened

with the Globe and Mail 2009 to 2013 so what happened at the Globe and Mail I was a contractor. I wasn't a member of the union. And sometimes it's good company that you keep. And it was Lorne Rubenstein and I were both let go at the same time by the Globe because we were the last two contractors in the Globe sports section.

And they had to get rid of us. All right. Last question is you had a podcast, Full Count with Bruce Dobrigan. Is that still active? No. So what happened to with Bruce Dobrigan. Is that still active? No. So what happened to the Bruce Dobrigan podcast? It didn't sell. I mean, you know.

I'm all for giving it a go. Yeah, and I did for two years, and I got some good support from people here in Toronto at the, I've forgotten the name of the network now, but anyhow, they're very friendly and they helped me, but it just never, it didn't catch on, and it's kind of hard to to do well actually i ended up doing all sorts of stuff it wasn't like political i did medical stuff and sports stuff right a bunch of things along the way so uh it do you think here and let me i'm just allows me to concentrate on doing other things too because i've only got so much time left all right uh well hopefully you have a long time left uh hopefully a long time but i gotta ask uh if you think maybe this, you know, the pro-Trump stuff and, you know, I mean, let's face it.

Andrew Scheer is problematic in his own right because of his thoughts on some social, some socially conservative viewpoints with same-sex marriage and et cetera. Do you think that hurts your brand and it becomes harder to sell something once you become aligned with Donald Trump? Well, if you're not firm, you're a guinea as far as lefts and progressives are concerned. Unless you take the whole meal deal, you're against us and therefore we have to damn you. I mean, progressive politics are like a religion but it's a religion that has no forgiveness and and if you're not part of them you're again and then so listen i the the day after andrew sheer was was nominated or was brought forward as the leader of the conservative party i said this is a disaster this this guy is going to be a disaster and you know

here in in southern ontario why i said that and you know what happened and you know how they played him like a fiddle and the management of the Conservative Party, such idiots, to think that they could somehow do that in this market and get elected. Just stupid politics. In other words, I can be critical of Conservatives too.

Right. No, no, no. I'm glad we had this conversation because I will admit, I didn't meet you till today for the first time and just seeing the Twitter persona, I'm like, I wasn conversation because I will admit, uh, I didn't meet you till today for the first time and just seeing the Twitter persona, I'm like,

I wasn't sure how it would go, but I had, I thoroughly enjoyed my, uh, 90 minutes with you here. Thank you. I have fun on Twitter and, who knows,

who knows where it goes. So, you know, again, all the Bruce's are ridiculous on Twitter. All the Bruce's should probably log off Twitter. I think maybe, uh,

you know, for everyone you lose, so you gain another, it's a weird, as you know, on Twitter, right? Bruce's should probably log off Twitter, I think maybe. You know, for every one you lose, so you gain another. It's a weird, as you know, on Twitter, right? All of a sudden, 12 guys.

Oh, I refuse to look at those numbers because it would drive me crazy. You shouldn't look at them, you're right. So let me just give a quick shout out to Major League Sox.

These are the guys who were formerly known as Babsox. They changed their name wisely when, you know, Babcock is no longer head coach of the Maple Leafs. But they're donating a thousand.

What happened to Babcock? Haven't you heard? Maybe there's a book in there, maybe. They're donating 1,000 pairs of socks in support of the Josie Dye Show's third annual Socks for the Streets campaign. So now I'm urging you listeners to drop off socks at the Dufferin Mall. So that's like Dufferin and Blewett. to drop off socks at the Dufferin Mall. So that's like Dufferin and Blewett.

Dufferin Mall on Friday, December 13th and Saturday, December 14th as the Josie Dye Show broadcasts live at 10 a.m. and they're collecting these to help less fortunate. Socks, what do they call it? They call it, oh, they have a fancy name and I haven't read it, but Socks for Souls Canada is the partnership that they're involved in. So that's some great stuff right there.

Bruce, your book, Cap in Hand, has some great stuff in there. A lot of meat on the bones, too. I like it that it's got some girth to it and people can sink their teeth into it. So it's a good Christmas gift or something. Very kind. Very kind to have me on and I appreciate it. I hope I didn't freak out too many of your people.

My people run the gamut. I've had loose skis on this show. What's happened to him? And yeah, thank you for the real talk. Yeah. And that

brings us to the end of our 556th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Bruce, remind us how we can follow you with all these right-wing thoughts. Where are you on Twitter? Twitter, I'm at Doughboy. D-O-W-B-B-O-Y.

My website is notthepublicbroadcaster.com and you can get my books at brucedoughboyandbooks.ca Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Brian Master, you write him at letsgetyouhome at kw.com. And Banjo

Dunk, who played Bruce Dobigan's wedding, he's at Banjo Dunk with a C. See you all next week. Cause my UI check has just come in Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold but the snow wants me to dance

And your smile is fine and it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is fine