Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Bruce Dowbiggin: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1647

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

In this 1647th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Bruce Dowbiggin about our chaotic world and the views from Alberta on Mark Carney, Pierre Pollievre, Danielle Smith, Donald Trump, Wayne Gretzky et al. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1647 of Toronto Miked. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. RecycleMyElectronics.ca, committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Building Toronto's skyline. A podcast and book from Nick Ienies.

Sponsored by Fusion Corp's Construction Management Inc. And Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, returning to Toronto Mike'd, it's Bruce Dobigan. Here's your big intro Bruce, how you doing buddy? I'm good man, how are you? Good to see you. How long in town for? Here for the week, just coming back from a stay in Florida and yeah we're gonna hang out a little bit and see some people and my kids are here in town and two of my kids are here in town.

And as a result, by the way, because you always give me stuff. I walk away with stuff. Getting more stuff today, Bruce. I'm good. I know. And you have new sponsors, too, since the last. Yeah, probably. Nick Aines has jumped on board. Absolutely. Repeat them. So, yeah. Yeah, we got Fusion Corp. They got it. Actually, I should show you here. I see their sign. Yeah

So fusion Corp this gentleman Nick. I enies Wants to fuel the real talk. He's got a podcast called building Toronto skyline. Cool battle of the skyscrapers building Toronto skylines These are Nick I enies books his last episode Was the guy from sorry pinnacle international who are building a skyscraper at One Young. Yep. And this thing, I took notes on this because it blew my mind, but when this is completed, it's, they're working on it right now,

it's going to be 105 stories. Whoa. It's 345 meters. It'll be the largest skyscraper in the country. Would you want to live in the penthouse of a 105-story condo tower, Bruce? Probably by the time you got up, there would be time to come back down

to go to work again. Seriously. That's the El Toronto Star Building? Yes, well that footprint there, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's a whole complex going up. I'm not sure it's that exact footprint, but I think they've already made some progress on this one and I think the one young is still standing there.

But yeah, One Young Street. I have to go, I'm going to St. Lawrence Market on Saturday, so I'll go and look at it. Go check it out. I love it. My, what is it, Friday Andy Wilson brought me a mug and he brought me a sweater and I'm like, gifts should come to me when guests come over. So Bruce, what did you bring me, buddy? Well, what did I bring you? I don't even know if you like tea. Do you like tea? I do drink, I drink more coffee than tea, but absolutely I'll enjoy a cup of tea. Anyhow, my son who does my book, who did the co-authors of my last two books,

Evan, yeah, who did Deal With It, the trades that stunned the NHL and shook up hockey. His father-in-law is in the tea business, and they make, well, he's more of a wholesaler, you don't necessarily see his teas on the shelf but if you go to the Fairmont chain if you go to the Disney chain if you go to all sorts of hotels and high-end things the Empress Hotel in Victoria if you ever go I've been there if you go for that's that's their tea so I brought you some mint tea and the box is kind of sexy too sexy Sexy, a sexy AF box, as the kids would say.

And thank you so much. This is all good. I'm gonna enjoy this tea and thank your son for me. Later in the day, that's when I like tea. Like after supper, before bed or whatever, a little bit of peppermint tea. Taking notes over here. Okay.

Lott 35. Yeah. All right, very good. Thank you so much. They've got all sorts of stuff. Every kind of tea, English, Irish Yeah. All right. Very good. Thank you so much They've got all sorts of stuff every kind of tea English Irish, you name it matcha tea, etc It's it's they're they're really quite good. And I had fun guy to talk to well I'll give you some some cold tea as we call it I have fresh craft beer for you from Great Lakes Brewery

So you can share that with your son or you can keep it all to yourself Bruce But you're taking some GLB home with you. I look forward to it. I forgot, I always forget when I come here to your show, the thing I always forget to do right off the start is get a glass of water. Oh, you know, it's all right out here. Halfway through the show, I'm dehydrated

and I don't want to interrupt the flow of the show, so. Well, I'll be, so I'm gonna run up and get you water, but I'm gonna be listening while I want you to explain to us these headphones you have here, water, but I'm gonna be listening. Well, I want you to explain to us these headphones you have here. Just tell me about these headphones. I'll be listening. I'll be back in like 30 seconds.

These are T-Bone headphones. And you're a cyclist. And what's the most important thing when you're cycling and you have headphones on is you can't hear ambient noise. Your ears are blocked by the buds or whatever, the cone over your ears. And also, if you're a swimmer like I am, you can't take those into a pool. And I've been looking for years for a solution to that. And what I've found are, these are called T-bones,

there's other ones like them that you can find. And the secret to them is, and these are, you can wear them when you're swimming, you can wear them when you're cycling, the secret to these is that the buds rest on your cheekbones instead of in your ears. The sound literally goes through the bones in your ear canal and you hear that, but you can also hear all sorts of other stuff going on. So when you're riding along, and I know this happens,

you know, you don't always hear people perfectly, or cars, whatever it is, cause you've got your headphones on, you listen to some great musician you've had on your show. Absolutely. These things allow you to do both and they're great for an airplane cause you know, on the airplane, they tell you, take off your earphones so we can tell you the thing we've told you a thousand times,

you don't have to because your ears are open. So anyhow, I highly recommend them. They're safer for a cyclist like me. 50 or 60 bucks, they do Bluetooth. The MP3 in this holds, I think right now I have about 3,000 songs in this. So you can see how small it is. So high recommendation for you as a cyclist

to keep you safe, keep your brain bucket safe. Get a set of them. And that's key. No, it's great. So already look all right at the top. I know what tea I need to be drinking now. I know what headphones I'm supposed to be wearing. Love it so much.

When I put on Blue Sky, I know you're not on Blue Sky, right? You're you're an X man. I do I do a Facebook, I do LinkedIn, I do all sorts of other WhatsApp. I haven't done Blue Sky yet, I'll get there. Brad Wheeler saw you were coming on Brad Wheeler from the Globe and Mail, should be a laugh riot. So I don't know if Brad's being, I think there's some sarcasm in there.

Maybe, maybe. I told him variety is the spice of life is what I replied to him. Cowboys Canuck when he heard Bruce Dobegin was coming by again, because you've been over several times, This is not your first rodeo here. I said rodeo because you're from Calgary here. We'll talk about that. But Cowboys Canuck, Cowboys 2, look at that. Bruce Dobegin, were there no crackpot conspiracy theorists available? Sorry, no other crackpot

conspiracy theorists available. So this is the, I'm curious, are you aware that the Bruce Stillbegin brand has a little of that attached to it now? Well, we talk about it. We talk about it because if you're- Well, you're talking about it now. If you're not part of the solution, you're the part of the problem, isn't that,

isn't that what they always say? You know, my line, I've used this on your show, other shows before is, I don't really think I've changed all that much. I think a lot of people who are in the same realm politically as I was a quarter century ago have moved further left, and I just haven't moved with them. And as a result, I get branded as some sort of

fire-breathing Western Petro monster. This guy's branding you, this guy, Cowboys Canuck, probably not his real name. Like I'd have to see the the driver's license there. But do you think you have any crackpot conspiracy theories that you believe in? I think that everything will end up well in the end. I think that's a crackpot theory. I think that I think that given proper proper time people work things out, that's a crackpot theory. I think that, I think that given proper time, people can work things out, that's a crackpot theory.

I don't know, you know, when you get, I'll be 71 in two weeks, so I've seen a few things under the bridge. And it tends to lead to some cynicism, but I still try to be positive, I still try to see, this is a very exciting time to be living, but you know, whether you're in Europe. Yeah, that's one word for it, right, this is a very exciting time to be living, but whether you're in Europe. That's one word for it, right.

Yeah, whether you're in Europe. It's exciting. Yeah, no, but you know what? It's the dynamics of society, people are looking at them and they're changing them. And Trump ran, he got his majority, he got the Congress and stuff in the states. So you have to say, well, the Americans asked for it.

And here in Canada We're about to answer that question again Hopefully we'll have an election fairly soon because I think one's necessary and then we will see What what the voice of the people is and you know, which way we should go Mike from Kdub wants to know do you bruised over again? Do you plan to buy a cyber truck? I hate them. they're ugly. They're ugly. I mean, listen, if somebody wants to,

there's a lot of them. I just came back as a safe from about three weeks in Florida and there's a lot of cyber trucks down there. It seems to be a cool thing. And I think it's a cool thing for people who have tons of money and it's a toy. It's like the 10th thing in their garage. But serious question, Bruce.

I love it when you come over because there's somebody who maybe has different thoughts on things and I can get a new perspective. I need to know what Alberta is thinking. You come and tell me what Alberta is thinking. But do you think a little bit is, or a lot of it maybe is that, oh, people like Toronto Mike fucking hate the Cybertruck.

I'm gonna piss them off by driving one. Like, is there any of that going on? That you would drive it? Yeah, like people like me like so That's you know, there's people like like Who's this Mike from Kdub people like that get just I told my ten-year-old who's upstairs because it's March break I tell him he has my permission You can take a leak on a cyber truck if he finds one in the wild like I it's fine

What are the cops gonna do a ten-year-old? I said that's fine with me You have my permission or whatever like the fact that we would get riled up over seeing a car, that might cause somebody like these people you saw in Florida to buy one and drive it around and be like, you know, screw you guys. Well, I think for a lot of people, it's the big dick syndrome. I think it's, you know, I can do it and I'm going to do it.

I don't care what anyone says. I think that's a large part of it. And it's amazing. In fact, the other day, I should tell you, we were outside, it was about supper time, and just dark before daylight savings time. And we saw this amazing sight going, because we see the rockets coming out of Cape Canaveral

where we are, and just about seven o'clock, all of a sudden the one that was going exploded. Right. And it looked like a meteor shower. Right. It's spectacular when they go up properly, but it's also spectacular when they explode. As long as it doesn't land on anybody.

Well, I think it dispersed over the ocean, but it had come from Texas. So there was a lot of time for it to blow up and land on people. But I think Musk is a fascinating character. He's like, what's that guy Tucker who invented the car? Tucker, the man in his dreams. Yeah, and they ran him out of business.

I think there's a lot of that that I admire in people if they're willing to try stuff and do stuff. The idea that a year ago, you and I sitting here talking as we did, the idea that Trump would run with him and with R.F.K. Jr. as his running mates, we reached over here and slapped me and said, wake up son. Well, no, you used the word exciting

and that's an appropriate term in that there's lots happening all over the place. And when I saw my calendar, oh, you're scheduled to visit because you're in town. Yeah. And we, again, we planned for maybe the third time in a row and maybe we will, like maybe we'll get to it, but I'm the boss around here, Bruce. So when I, I'll decide where we get to it, but we were going to talk about Alan Eagleson and your role and all that. And I think we will get to it today, but I have to admit right at the top, I'm like,

I need to talk to Bruce about all the stuff that's happening. Like Elon Musk almost ranks, I don't know, ninth or tenth and that typically I think in a typical news cycle might be closer to number one. That what's going on him with Doge, is that how you pronounce it? Yeah, Department of Government Efficiency. Right. Not the Bitcoin with the dog on it or whatever I used used to see on Reddit but probably not a coincidence. You have to admit, you have

to admit the video of them bringing this the spacecraft back and the arm grabbing it and bringing it back that that's that's that's pretty amazing stuff. Yeah yeah, my concern is when I see footage and I'm kind of aching to hear how you're gonna spin this one but I see him giving the the the hail Hitler salute Are you gonna tell me that he was just waving goodbye to his followers? He was waving goodbye to the one that exploded you mean no This is the I guess right after the election really you got you after the inauguration you got into the whole heil Hitler sign I mean you haven't seen the 846

Significant you don't think that's doing heil high. He was waving to people. Oh my god. I watched it a hundred times I don't believe after the show is over. I'll go home and I will send you a thing of Left-wing politicians doing the salute. Okay, you do the salute right now since it's just waving hello right now on that camera Bruce Dole again Let's hear you do my knuckles on the lower your see you know what I bet you you wouldn't do it you know why cuz you know what that is okay and you wouldn't do that okay so really do you think he's a Nazi I think so I think he's okay yeah I think so I can't argue I wish I could get him on the show and I'd have a deeper combo with him but

if I get him in the basement we'll try to drill in 14 kids he's good at something I know it if you get you know he can afford them I think if I get him in the basement, we'll try to drill in. 14 kids, he's good at something. You know, he can afford them. I think if I had unlimited funds, I might have 14 kids, right? Kids are amazing. I'd have had more. Yeah, I think I stopped at four

because I couldn't afford a fifth. Like I didn't have Musk money, you know what I mean? I was one of five growing up and we have three and I'd have been happy to have more, but it's not, you know, the burden of doing all that didn't fall on me. I just sort of, you know, made the executive decision. My wife would have had to do all the work.

And so at that point I gave her the thumbs up or thumbs down. At some point during that I closed up the shop. I said, I don't want to be talked into this again. So, okay. Okay, so let's set the table here by letting the listenership know if they haven't heard of Bruce Doe Begin episode. You live in Cal So, okay. Okay. So let's set the table here by letting the listenership know if they haven't heard of Bruce Doe begin episode. You live in Calgary, Alberta.

Have since 25 years now. And despite what Antonia Zerbeisias, who was on my show, and I told her you were coming in. You know what? Did you listen to her episode of Toronto Miked by any chance? I just saw the little clip that was being previewed, but I didn't, I don't like to watch too much of one before I come on your show because then I start saw the little clip that was being previewed, but I didn't, I don't like to watch too much of one before I come on your show because then I start, like the Alan Gregg thing, we could talk for the whole Alan,

the thing that's about Alan Gregg stories. Well, I'd be interested in the Alan Gregg talk. He's coming on again because he doesn't live in Canada. So we have to wait for him to be. As in Mexico. Right. But he is going to come in the basement, but he's going to be here with Jake Gold. And it's going to be the first time. Yeah. The first time that they've been interviewed

together since venture in like the late eighties. Yeah. And venture by way, Antonia worked on venture. So for me here, we're going to digress and we never, let's digress and then I'll get to all my grass. Uh, I met. I met Alan through Peter Mansbridge when we were working together at CBC. I was on the phone one day, Bob Weeks who you know from TSN. Of course he's an FOTM. He's been in the base. Yeah he's been here. He called me one day at the in the makeup room and said you're looking to join a golf club. I said yeah might be. He said well Weston has a certain price and would you like to join? I said yeah absolutely. Peter was sitting in the makeup room at the same time and said, oh, I'm looking to join a club

with a couple of my buddies. And I said, why don't we go and try the course out together? So Peter, Alan Gregg, Bob Lewis, who was the editor of Maclean's at the time, and I guess I was the fourth, we went and we tried out the course and we all became members and we were kind of a regular Saturday group there.

And Alan's the only person in the entire universe who saw my hole in one. The only hole in one I've had in my life. Wow. We need to get him to put it on the record here so it will be preserved for your grandchildren. Alan and I, we looked for five minutes for the ball and then all of a sudden he looked at the hole

and said, oh, it's in the hole. So anyhow, I became friends with Alan that way. He's one of the most generous, bright, I've got nothing but superlatives for him. I didn't find him an affected guy. He could have been big footing me as the sports guy. He never did. And when I was making the decision

whether to go to Calgary or not, and I knew Alan had grown up in Edmonton, I was talking to him and I said, I'm not sure, I'm not sure. He said, listen, if there's anywhere I would live in Canada other than Toronto today, he said it would be Calgary. And his say so was really so important to me at the time. I said, well, let's give it a try. And that was a big part of why I made the decision.

It sounds like Alan makes a lot of contacts on the golf course only because he was directed to me by a FOTM named Jesse Hirsch. And Jesse played with us. Okay, because Jesse knows him because they would golf together. And now they're doing a podcast. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Okay. They invited me to the podcast. I actually don't think I'm smart enough to be on their podcast. This is, you know, here we are, you know, see students or whatever. I feel like that's for the, the new gifted program is their podcast.

And you know, we used to have people show up if somebody wasn't there, like one day the governor general showed up, Reena Titian showed up to play. And I'm just a little schmuck guy, sportscaster guy, and I just had a window into this. It was a lot of fun. And as I say, they could have been really, you know,

big foot me, well, let's drag him along. When my kids would come and caddy, they were patient with the kids. The kids would wander off and stuff. It was never a problem. And Alan, when I first knew him, as I think he explained on your show, was going through a tough time.

His first wife had passed away. The business stuff, which you were cataloging with him too, was having some trouble with it. And he was always upbeat and positive and bright. And yeah, I was on his show a number of times. Every time I had a book, I would come on his show. So I, nothing but, but you know, praise for the man. And I'm glad that you made the connection.

The show, I listened to it beginning to end. And it kind of connects to your dear friend, Steve Pagan. Cause Greg talks about losing the TVO show. And it sounds like there might've been, you know, I will have, you know. I'm having lunch with Steve on Wednesday. I will bring it up. Tell Steve we're due for a catch up.

And I actually wonder if he's a little ticked at me. I wonder, I'll share this live with other Greg. Because he did an episode of the agenda that was promoted as what would it look like if Canada were the 51st state, right? I'm paraphrasing mildly like when I show you the title and the screencaps of the the promotional materials that floated around social media and Stuff that were put out by TVO's marketing department or whatever. You'll see it's almost that it was like and people like Kathleen Wynn were on this panel and they were doing an episode where they discussed and

Sure in the in the discussions it would be resolved that you know Canada would never be the 51st state or whatever not really at least and we'll get into that a bit more too but I didn't like the premise of the the framing of it what would it look like if Canada because to me it was uh sane washing this this uh idea that Trump keeps making it acceptable yeah like I don't mind, same with, by the way, same with Ian Hanumancing who listens to the program. So hello to Ian. Hey, Hanu. Hello to Ian, handsome man thing.

I think, who by the way, buddies, one time he's like, I'm coming to Toronto. I don't have time to come to the basement. I'm actually meeting Steve's brother, Steve Paikin's brother. Like this all connects. Yeah, it all connects. But Hanu is a wonderful guy and they always wanted him to move to Toronto to be the next guy. I bet. But his wife had a great job in Vancouver and he had his kids were growing up and God

bless him, he said, you know what, here I stay. So Ian eventually will be in this basement, but we correspond via email, etc. So these two things were happening. First the the agenda, and then much later, cross-country Canada, cross-Canada checkup. Right? Which is now hosted. Sounds like a dental appointment, doesn't it? Yeah.

It's no longer the Rex Murphy's though. Now it's Ian Henneman saying, Rex Murphy, shout out to Ridley Funeral Home, no longer with us. But here, let me wrap this up real quick to say, they also similarly framed an episode of cross-Canada checkup in normalizing this 51st state. Like let's talk to our friends in America.

Let's talk about what it would look like if Canada joined the United States as a 51st state. And I was personally offended by the framing by CBC and TVO to public broadcasters. And I let Steve, I put on the public record about it, and I don't know if Steve is a little ticked at me for going at him for my, because I actually am still pissed off at how the agenda framed that episode.

What would it look like if Canada became the 51st state? And that doesn't mean I don't wanna talk about it. We should talk about it. We should fill your boots. We should talk about this illegal threat by the United States and Donald Trump, but we shouldn't frame it as this possibility that one day we'll have a referendum and we'll decide that, uh, yes, United States, we'd like to be a part of you and use your money, et cetera. Like that is to me, uh, gross.

Well, I think there's a discussion that can be had about a hemispheric zone, including Mexico and Canada and the United States in a free trade zone. I think that's like, there's a discussion that can be had about a hemispheric zone, including Mexico and Canada and the United States in a free trade zone. I think that's a discussion. Like NAFTA? Well, but NAFTA just governs the agreements that we have. Talking about a free trade zone amongst this hemisphere and basically protecting ourselves and indulging ourselves and taking care of ourselves.

I think that's very different, right? That's a legitimate argument. That's a conversation to have. Yeah. And I think that Trump, this is his bumbling way of getting, not bumbling, it's his, it's his bumpshis way of getting this kind of discussion started. So yeah. Hell of a statesman.

Okay. That's one way to do it. Just piss us off so royally that you got you got Canadians Pissed off. That's not easy to do is it? Well, I can see where you're coming from that listen they had it they had a show to do they had to frame it Yeah, I know I'm clearly clearly they got your attention to watch it if the goal was to get Eyeballs and clicks and that kind of attention then sure it's like yelling fire in a crowded theater or something, right? Like it's going to work. But I feel the public broadcaster has the responsibility not to sane wash this notion.

The public broadcaster has a risk. Like this is in CTV and global, this is TVO and CBC where taxpayers fund these, partially fund at least these programs. The CBC, the public broadcaster has the obligation to be honest and to report the facts and to bring them out and to not editorialize about whether they think it would be a good idea or bad idea, but to interview people on both sides and let the audience make up their mind.

And I think that's their obligation and that should be TVO's obligation too. I didn't watch the show, so I can't speak to the specifics of it. It's kind of like a university debate and all the, one of the great things about a debating society when you're doing it is they assign you the position that you're gonna argue.

So you learn how to see the best things about the other side. And it also teaches you to be, you know, open-minded when you get into debate. And so I suppose to a certain extent, I don't wanna go down this line too far because I didn't see the show. But we're not even talking about the content of the show. We're talking about the framing, the question,

the promotion of what it would be about. To me, it's like, why not just do an episode of, what would it look like if we took away women's right to vote? You know what I mean? Like this is where we're at. Like, you know, we- Well, there's a good issue.

That might fly floating. I'll have to take that back to Alberta. Okay, so this is where I was going. Where we have a female premier. Yes, no, you do have a female premier. And a female opposition leader, or we used to. So Daniel Smith. Okay, so we established off the top,

you've been living a long time now in Alberta. I know I did that Calgary Calgary Alberta is Edmonton and Calgary very different places. How are they my wife's from Edmonton? I've been but I've only been there once how is Calgary different from Edmonton? Well Calgarians call it Redmonton It's it's the home of the Civil Service. It's the home of the University of Alberta it's a place where the NDP member who is wearing the keffiyeh in the House of Commons comes from Edmonton, and she's white Anglo-Saxon background according to her name anyhow. People tend to see Edmonton as being

the more liberal of the two cities. And also Calgary is more of a corporate headquarters place. Edmonton is more a place where, as I say, union, unionized stuff. The people who work in the North, when they come down from Fort Mac, that's where they go for a weekend. They go to the West Edmonton Mall. I'm being very general about it, but yeah, generalizing, but yeah, it's, they're different. They're very different. Okay. Cal, is Calgary more like when we refer to, sometimes we refer to Alberta as the Texas of Canada. We're talking about Calgary there, more so than Edmonton. When we're talking about Texas,

we're talking about anything but Calgary and Edmonton. We're talking about the rural. In the same way, if you're trying to describe Ontario, you take Toronto, the southern part of the metro area out of it, it's a different provinces you just learned when you had your provincial election just ended. There's a lot of people out there who are not liberal.

Let's try something different kind of people. There's a lot of conservative people who are out there. Okay, I'm gonna quickly connect some dots to get us back to where I wanna go. But one is remind us, what show did you work with Fred Patterson from the Humble and Fred Show on? I didn't work, he was on a show that I was supposed to be on.

It was a Sunday night sports show on CBC, CBLT. And he and what's his name? That went over to a CP, forgotten the guy's name. Anyhow, they ended up doing the show and I was much put out by our staff, by our people having outsiders employed in doing this show. So, okay, I got this story completely wrong.

So you didn't work with Freddie P and a show. Freddie P basically was doing this show when it was us. So, okay, I got this story completely wrong. So you didn't work with Freddie P on a show. Freddie P basically was doing a show that you felt you should be doing. Yeah, well it was a CBLT show. I was the lead sports guy on the show. I thought that by rights it should have been my show. And so we were a little ticked about it for a while. But I don't hold that against Freddie.

I mean, he had an opportunity. Gosh, I can't remember the other guy's name. You'll remember his name when I tell you. Okay, and he went to CP24, you said? No. The other guy? Yeah. No, I think he went to Canadian press.

Anyhow, it's a guy who's probably been on your show. So it'll come to me when my brain unfogs. When it comes to you, spit it out here. So his partner at Humble and Fred is Humble Howard Glassman. Yeah. Golfs like a fman. He golfs like crazy Humble Howard and one of Howard's things is because he's golfed more rounds than I'm sure you, Alan Gregg, Jesse Hersh and everybody combined I would guess because we have an addiction to golf Humble Howard but he's never had a hole-in-one so hearing you earlier talk

about the hole-in-one that Alan Gregg witnessed, I know Humble Howard he's like he's never had a hole in one. So hearing you earlier talk about the hole in one that Alan Gregg witnessed, I know Humble Howard, he's like, he's dying to get a hole in one, but and he puts in a lot of, like there's a lot of rounds that man is golfing. It's a bit of, it's luck. If you're a good golfer and you throw the ball at the target enough times, it'll go in for you.

If you're a hack like me, all the planets have to line up for that one day and it goes in. But it's, yeah, it's kind of, it's a magic thing and you can hold it over people who haven't got a hold on one. And you have an eye witness. I have an eye witness and he's an unimpeachable guy.

If I said it was, you know, my caddy had seen it, you could say, well, he just paid him to say that. Right, but I will say when Alan Gregg is next on the show, when he comes on with Jake Gold, and there'll be a lot of hip talk in that episode, I will get him to put it on the record, like record Alan Gregg stating he has in fact witnessed this hole in one by Bruce Dobegine. And then it'll live forever. So that's what I'll do for you there. So I was so Alan Gregg, one of the great episodes of Toronto Mike DeVall time, if people haven't heard Alan Gregg from earlier this quarter, get on that. What a great episode. Another great episode though was Antonia Zerbezias.

And when I told her that you were now leaning, now that you're in Alberta, you're in Calgary, you're leaning further right than maybe she is. She was shocked because she assumed you as a CBC or living in Toronto, she assumed you were rather left of center. And I kind of blew my mind. I was when I was younger. I was when I was younger. But again, what I earlier said is that I think I'm kind of in the place I always was.

I don't believe men can have babies. I have a lot of things that people right now pay lip service to as- People are saying men can have babies? Yeah, sure. Of course they are. Of course they are. Where is this where is this discourse happening? Like I'm missing this.

But where is the discourse that men can have babies? Well, certainly not something that I believe in. I'm not promoting this idea. But if you look at the pronoun people go up to York University and talk to people there, go to U of T and talk to people there, go into the government and talk to people there because they're very Solicitous of people who think that men can have babies. Yeah. Okay, so you're referring to two trans men that have uterus etc, and and a number of other issues that I'm not quite as Well, I again I still believe what I believe 25 years ago about a lot of things about financing and what a country is about

Etc and I think we've sort of lost sight of it. One of the most, here I am, I'll segue on you. One of the most interesting things about this discussion that I've seen, two polls that I've seen that are really interesting, the man you hate with a passion and that everyone- Which one, you need to be more specific. Well, there's only one person really to hate these days.

Not that multiple, but Trump? Is Donald Trump. They just had a recent poll. 60% of Americans under the age of 40 support him. And then there was another poll in which, I guess in one of his many ramblings, he said, well, if people want to come to Canada, we'll offer them conditional citizenship

and we will give them an exchange dollar for dollar, US dollars, et cetera. And there was a poll of kids, 18 to, well kids, young people 18 to 36, and 42% of the people said that they would consider that offer. And I guess what I, the point of what I'm saying, and I was making this with my host last night when we watched Mr. Carney's thing,

is that we're all focused, our age group has defined Canada. We're the group that thinks 72 hockey series, all of these kind of things are defining Canada and they have been for a long time. But there is a generation that's following us right now and I have my kids and they give me an insight into it, who don't see Canada in the same way. They're not romantic about it in the same way that we were. The Prime Minister just resigned, said we're postmodern, that we don't have a culture anymore,

that we're a world visiting place, come on in here. And I think a lot of people in Canada, under a certain age, don't see it in the same way. And those of us at the top end, the boomers, because of course we think the world revolves around us, we don't understand that they have moved on from us. And these discussions that we had about Carney or even the ones in the United States where all the politicians seem to be 75 years old, they don't seem to be acknowledging what's coming next and what they

believe and what they want to do. And I think that's part of the discussion that has to happen when we finally have this election, hopefully in the next month or two. Mark Carney was absolutely next on my agenda here. So I'm setting the table. You're an Alberta guy. You have these thoughts. We've had a little taste there. And Antonia Zerbecia is also one of the great Toronto Mike episodes. It was just the most recent episode in the feed and I thought she was pretty awesome to chat with. Enjoyed it very much. What are the thoughts from you, Bruce, on the new liberal, and by the way, I had to get this explained to me.

He's an Albertan. He's from Edmonton. Oh yeah, he was born in Northwest Territories, raised in Alberta. Actually, he's from Alberta. What are your thoughts on Mark Carney, who will, and I don't know when this, I think Trudeau has to go to the Governor General

and officially resign, and then Mark Carney becomes Prime Minister. So now he's leader of the liberal party and he will be prime minister. What time is it? Any moment now. And what are your thoughts, Bruce? Is it happening that soon?

I think it's gonna happen this week. I think he's gonna do it early. I mean, the people who are making a fuss about all these unelected and all this sort of, listen. And who's making that fuss? Somebody who doesn't understand our system. In Alberta, Danielle Smith was the premier elect for a considerable period of time

before she finally got elected and got the title. So I'm not making a big thing about it. Mark Carney is a quintessential bureaucrat. He's a quintessential sees government as the way to solve problems. He's a banker, obviously, but he uses the economy through government to solve them. That's gonna be his viewpoint.

That's gonna be his particular profile. The thing that struck me watching him last night was he did a gushing thank you to Justin Trudeau about his 10 years as Prime Minister of Canada, and then seemed to repudiate about four or five of the major planks of the liberal government of the last 10 years on things like the carbon tax, et cetera. And then he said he's a practical guy.

And so I guess it begs the question, was the liberal party that we had as the last 10 years, was it a construct of Justin Trudeau? And when he goes,'s not going to be that stuff or is Mark Carney going to have to bring the Liberal Party to the water and make them drink in it? Those are the interesting things that I'm going to see in the next couple of weeks. And in your opinion Bruce, how much of that is simply disarming Pierre Poliev's conservative party of Canada? Like removing some of these talking points that have been inundated with?

Well they're the talking points of the Polly ever. Tax the axe being one, right? Like I hear this tax the axe. I think most... Tax the axe. Yeah, a little dyslexia there. Tax the axe is even better. Axe, yeah, axe the tax. I bet you most Canadians aren't even sure what the hell that means. Well, it's the carbon tax. Sure. Well, it's the carbon tax that they want to get rid of. So how much is the strategic to simply disarm Pierre Pauliev?

Sure. A number of the things that the Liberal Party now stands for are things that the Conservatives found from their polling were effective assaults on the Liberal Party. And they're trying to defang the Liberal Party and the Conservatives. I think it's worked well. And it's been very clever. I don't know who's done it, but they've basically pushed Poliev into a corner where Poliev is echoing most of the stuff that the liberals and the new Democrats are saying about Trump. He's, you know, the stab in the back

and all that sort of stuff. And whatever his feelings are on it, it just makes it sound like, oh, he just agrees with the liberals. So why would we need a different guy? Poliev is in a really, really interesting place right now. I wouldn't say approving, but I think he was doing

what he should have been doing up until now, which is keeping his powder dry and let the liberals burn themselves up. But now it's his turn to get on the dance floor and we're gonna see whether he can establish a persona, whether he can establish a platform that's significantly different from the liberals. I think most people still, you know, are willing to admit that the liberals probably need a time out. They need to go back and revamp. I mean the Prime Minister went on and on about

how disappointing the United States was. You had a chance to elect a woman. Well they couldn't even get 15% of the votes for women yesterday in the leadership thing. So I think the liberals really need a time out to rethink who they are, but they're in a hurry. They wanna hang on to power, which is a political thing. And so that leaves it to Paul Yev. We'll see what happens.

Now you alluded to the fact that Mark Carney overwhelming 86% of the vote or something, whatever. I didn't vote, so whoever is eligible to vote. But- A lot of people apparently didn't vote. They had 410,000 people register and I think 130,000 or 135 approximately. But do you think that's possibly

because it was such a foregone conclusion? Like I admit, I thought it would be closer than- Well, why would you register if it was a foregone conclusion? Like I admit I thought it would be closer than it was. Why would you register if it was a foregone conclusion? The people I've been talking to since I've been in town who are all who registered said it was extremely complicated if you weren't a sophisticated computer person for a lot of people and the boomers and older people who are liberal voters, a lot of them I think they got scotched and said, I don't know how this works.

No, I get the calls from my mom, okay? These are very tricky maneuvers for your typical Boomer person. All right, well that would explain that. Did your mom vote? No, I don't think, this whole idea of what, do you register as a member of the liberal party? Like explain it to me.

Like I think I've registered in the past for both parties. And in the past I send $10 and they send me a card and they send me all the bumps for a year. And then they say, send us some more money. And I say, that was a waste. But I'm surprised you Bruce, this a journalist would even do that step because that might suggest some bias

if you're registering as a member of the party. The one, the time I did for the conservatives was, oh, I'm an insider, was the guy who is, the guy at my golf course who was our food and beverage manager, who asked me whether he should get into politics. I said, don't get into politics. You'll hate yourself, et cetera, et cetera.

He went ahead anyhow and he won the riding, our riding, and now he's in the government. So I said, I will for one time, I will take a card and vote for you because you're a friend of mine. In spite of everything I told you, you're right. See that's a good reason. Okay.

And I did the- So I didn't vote. I didn't register with anything. I'll vote when we go to the polls as a country, which will happen, it sounds like it'll happen in the next couple of months. Yeah, the people who've come to my door politically to ask for my support, I tell them I'm a journalist

and I cannot take a political position. Yeah, that's what I would think. I would think you wouldn't wanna, you know, pagan, you can't get pagan to show any kind of preference for any political party. No, he's actually, that's why he gets to moderate all the debates. Sure, sure, he's very scrupulous about it most of the time.

I always say, I can't talk to it, but here's my wife, you can try to sell my wife on something, and sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. So there you go. Absolutely. So do you, partly where I was going with, so huge majority there in that election, whoever got to vote, Mark Carney won overwhelmingly, but that would be, you know, liberal party members voting. Who is the best person to defeat Pierre Poliev in the upcoming federal election. And in that case, yeah, that's so it's not because Mark Carney is a dude and Christia Freeland's a woman.

Like there's there's not that although the Freeland logo I saw it when she was speaking looks a lot like the Fabric Land logo. Have you seen the Fabric Land? They have one in Dundas. Fabric Land, Fabric Land. See, if I'm Fre freelance and in the situation, first of all, I gotta be pissed because I spent 10 years taking all the shots

for what Trudeau's done, whether I believed it or not. I was a good soldier for most of it at the end when I had a slight difference of opinion with the Prime Minister. A good soldier until she wasn't. Well, yeah, according to the Prime Minister. But if I'm in her shoes, what I'm looking at is, OK, I know I'm not going to win this vote. And she got virtually none of the vote.

Eight percent. I don't know. Something's low. But single digits. But if the scenario is that Mark Carney runs and then Mark Carney loses, he ain't hanging around. He's not going to sit there on the opposition benches. He came here to be prime minister. And if he doesn't become prime minister, then liberals are gonna be looking for someone else and this is when Chris Christian Friedland says hey, how about me? I'm a woman. I was in the government. I did service You know me etc and that she can run then for the leaders

I think that would be her scenario for what we saw coming out of this. Okay, so Mark Carney has to become prime minister as we speak. he's not officially Prime Minister, although it is imminent. And then I'm sure you're right. You mentioned it earlier that an election would be called rather quickly. Late April, maybe? Yeah, do you want anything in that crystal ball? And then I can pull the clip and tell you,

you were way wrong, Bruce, or maybe you nailed it. But what do you think happens federally, Pierre Poliak versus Mark Carney? My favorite political story, I think Alan Gregg may have mentioned this to you as well on his show, but anyhow. My favorite political story is of course, Harold McMillan was the Prime Minister of Britain,

and he was doing a scrum with the reporters at the time, and one of them said, Mr. Prime Minister, what do you fear most? And he said, events, dear boy, events. And what I would say in response to your question, ask me what's going on, is that anything that's more than two weeks out in this cycle.

Two days out. Yeah, you're just assuming things. Again, I have no idea how the dynamics will happen. I will, my big, here's my big prediction. Yeah. Do you have a drum roll or something? Is it one of those cheesy shows where the guys do the- Hold on, do I?

Hold on, let's see what this is. I don't know. No, that's a rim shot. No, I don't have a drum roll. I'll get one for you next time. My big prediction is that it's gonna come down to the way these two men look in the debate. The debate is what killed Joe Biden

when he finally was exposed, that he was clapping his hands and counting his buttons, and he hadn't been compass metas for a few years. It will be the dynamic between the two men. We've seen Paul Liev in the house, we've seen his, I like his videos where he explains about the problem of buying a house and stuff.

He's very meat and potatoes about that stuff, but how is it gonna translate on that stage? Will Jagmeet Singh be there? Will he? Will he lay down his arms? Well, no, but I mean, will the NDP, looking at the polls they see today, will they somehow try to do their own

Kamala Harris switcheroo thing? So that's my big prediction is I wanna see the debate and then I will have a good idea. Okay, you mentioned that. So again, I'm pulling out a lot of threads. Alan Eagleson's on standby, but I got, I'm too interested in the current events happening right now. And yes, this all may change in two hours.

This is the, Antonia was like, I don't want to talk about things because it's going to date the podcast. And I said, like, obviously you don't know what Toronto Mike does about it. No, we're timestamping this. This moment in time is happening and it might sound very dated in two hours and I don't care.

We're talking. You'll have her back anyhow. You can correct it all, yeah. We'll get her back. But I do follow your stuff and I read the blog. Again, shout out your blog, Not The Public Broadcaster. NotThePublicBroadcaster.com. That's my blog.

That's my handle. And you share thoughts there. Although not as frequently as in this crazy time. I feel like you... No, twice a week. Is it twice a week? Twice a week. In fact, I'm sort of remiss today.

I usually do my sports on Monday and I didn't get it finished because I was coming down here so I'll finish it this afternoon. I'm doing a piece about older athletes and how they hang on Aaron Rodgers and people like that. So that's what it's about. What do you think about FOTM Charlie Angus not resigning or he says he's not going to run again and he looked me in the eyes and said I'm done running politics. I'm going to do it from the outside. And what do you think about him somehow becoming leader of the federal NDP party? Well, the peace dancer party. So NDP.

Right. That's redundant. That's from the Department of Redundancy Department. Redundancy. It's like when you say sin number, I go, oh, what's your sin number? Well, that's social insurance number number, Mike. Have at it is what I would say to Charlie. Who knows what will be left, excuse me, of the NDP when this all sort of reaches its end.

Will they go even further left? Will they become total Marxist party? Or will they come back to the Ed Broadband? Again, for the younger folk out there who are listening to this, and you're younger than me, the Ed Broadband NDP was a coalition of people who were union members, who were farmers, they were strong on the prairies, academics obviously,

but over the last, whatever it is now, 30, 40 years, they've morphed into basically a department, postgraduate department at a Canadian university is their base. They've lost all of that. And they used to be a nice place to park your vote when you didn't want to vote for liberals and you couldn't vote for conservatives. It was a nice place to park your vote when you didn't want to vote for liberals and you would you couldn't vote for conservatives was a safe place to park your vote I remember how excited I was when I think

it was Bob Ray and he won an NDP seat I think it was I think it was over in broad view over that way and I remember being very excited about it saying wow you know that's great more political cetera. But they just seem to have lost the plot. Well, well, stay tuned. Charlie Angus is saying a lot of stuff many of us wanna hear, so we'll see here. But, you know, we'll see. But you mentioned the debates earlier

and you think Pierre Paulier versus Mark Carney, you know, the debates will decide it. And then it got me thinking of the Alan Gregg episode. This is all about the Alan Gregg. We are gonna do 90 Minutes on Alan Gregg, okay? But we talked about John Turner versus Brian Mulrooney. And the great, we still hear these clips, like these great moments in that debate

about selling out Canada. You had a choice. You had a choice. Although that, I don't know, was that the debate about free trade? I think there was a separate debate about the free trade. But the thing about you had a choice, of course, was about patronage. And Mr. Mulrooney cornered Mr. Turner.

I always felt badly for John Turner. He just missed his slot. You know, in politics and maybe in sports, you're a quarterback and you're a really good quarterback, but the team can't assemble the right guys around you. Then you finally get the guys around you and you're not the quarterback you used to be. And John Turner was a guy who was ready.

He almost beat Trudeau back in 68. He had a chance. And then he just kind of went stale. Had all of the perks. Whatever, I'm going on about John Turner. But now we can just tell the world that Paykin wrote a book about Turner. Yeah.

Like fairly recently. My good friend, my good friend, Mark. Oh, gosh. All of a sudden I forgot his name. Carney. No, no, no. Anyhow, my one of my good friends used to go out on the road with John Turner when Turner was retired and he would go and make all these appearances and Mark would go out with him and he would, you know, introduce him to people and make sure he stayed out of trouble and that he did his thing

and he was always very loyal to Mr. Turner. My beef with Mr. Turner, now I hear Alan Eagleson appearance here, is that he was one of Alan Eagleson's backers, one of the guys who made it very hard for us doing that story to really get the public to appreciate how badly Mr. Eagleson had abused hockey players John Turner and John subpoena and some of those people protected him For a long time it was it was disgraceful

my amazing segue to Eagleson is going to come in the form of a Certain number four for the Boston Bruins. So stay tuned because it's getting there but here but I Certain number four for the Boston Bruins. So stay tuned because it's getting there. But here but I Got a note on the live stream from Andrew Ward Andrew Ward. Yep listening live says is Bruce happy With the actions his Bruce happy. That's all he wants to know. Are you happy? He's 71 years old. How happy can I be and you're you're fit? I mean, you know, I't assume you're fit, but you look fit is what I'm saying here. And you sound great. But 71 isn't like it used to be, right?

Like I feel like when I was growing up, 71 was like ready to go to Ridley Funeral Home. Like you were ready. And now 71, I would think you could still be out there biking, you know. My mother had another 20 years after this. I would say that 40 is the new 30, 60 is the new 50, 70 is the new 70. 70

is where all those things converge. The lying to yourself, all of the things you try to do, there's only so much you can do. Do you smoke cigarettes? Never have. See, I feel like that's a big deal. Like there's a seven-year-old who's been smoking all his or her life, and then there's a seven-year-old who didn't smoke. And there's sometimes there's a Delphi difference. Okay, I'm Delta. I'm going to give you quickly here, because I mentioned Ridley Funeral. I just want to give you a measuring tape for Ridley Funeral Home. I always, I give them to- I'm going to finish Andrew Ward's question. So Andrew, hold on there.

But yeah, they're a pillar of this community, 14th and Lakeshore, good people. I'm getting closer to it. Why are you, you know. I could be a client soon. I'm thinking of Peter Gross, his mom. I've mentioned her a lot on this show because Peter and I talk a lot. And his mom lives independently, does her own shopping, still running through the parking lot, like very spry,

cooks for guests on special occasions, just completely independently living in her own condo. She's 101 years old, Marilyn Gross. That's our goal, okay? Yeah, I don't know if I want to be 100. Well, what if you had your wits about you and you were still physically able to do? If you have your mobility and you have your brain,

why wouldn't you? But if I can't walk at least nine holes of a golf course, physically, that would be something that would be a major loss to me. And I don't want to say this the wrong way But I'm fortunate in the sense that my parents have passed on we've gone through all of those stages And I hear my friends talking about we've got to put mom and dad into a retirement home or whatever it is We've gone through all that and it's it's rough. It's a very rough end-of-life sequence

My dad died fairly quickly, which was good for him. My mom was, had dementia at the end, but the people out at Tansley woods and Burlington took care of her. Yeah. So I know I digress. I hope you live another 30 years. Maybe plus, maybe you'll be hanging out with 130 year old, Maryland gross. Maybe I'll get another hole in one. Make sure there's a witness to that. Nowadays though, people might even have video.

It's my fear when I go out, I do walk courses alone when I'm down in Florida, for instance, late in the day. I said, don't give me a hole in one here. I'd have to go get somebody out of a condo and say, come and look at this and take a picture. Well, you know who's the great cheater of golf, according to many a good eyewitness? Donald Trump. Donald Trump?

He's a rollover guy. He's got a six handicap. Now I know you're not a golfer. No, but I, you don't look, tells me a bit about these, these golfing lies. Yeah. Donald Trump. Yeah. I mean, you don't luck into a six, that's a lot of cheating to get a six. You have to do a lot of cheating to get a six.

I think he's willing to do a lot of cheating. I've seen his swing and, and it's believable that he does that, that he can advance the ball. He seems to have some distance still for a guy his age. He must be a good up and down guy, chipping and putting guy. It's possible, but yeah, I mean, I remember, who was it out? Was it not Alan Slate, but his son.

Oh, yeah. Yes, Slate. Gary Slate. Gary Slate. I played golf with Gary Slate. And one time he said, I don't count my score. If I want to move the ball, I move the ball. And I drank the whole time that I'm playing. And he said, Are you okay with that? And I said, Sure. I think those are the rules. Well, Trump doesn't drink. But I think those are the rules with Trump is that if you play with him, he has certain things. Well, that's fine. But Trump cheating, that does say something about somebody's character when they cheat that. Then now we're in Kim Jong-un. I haven't seen anybody give me a specific when

they were playing with him, what he was doing in terms of cheating. Did he add his numbers wrong? Did he roll the ball over? Was it in the pond and then he pulled out without a penalty? I don't know. All right. Stay tuned. No more't know. I don't know. All right, stay tuned. No more golf talk. Swing thoughts here. Okay. What's about honesty?

It's not really golf. It's his integrity. Andrew, integrity, we'll get back to that. Andrew Ward. No, we won't. Wrote, is Bruce happy with the actions of his province's premier? You mentioned Daniel Smith earlier.

Talk to me about how you, Bruce Dobygan, feel about Daniel Smith, Premier of Alberta. I think that what we need to do is we need to engage with as many people on the other side of the border, talking about these issues, how to negotiate it. Obviously the energy file that Alberta carries and that's our livelihood and that's the thing we represent within Canada is extremely important to our economy and I had no problems with her going down with Kevin O'Leary and meeting the

people who matter. I think when all the premiers went down you remember they went down to see to try and see Trump and they got the third assistant deputy whatever DC so in other words it's not easy to get close to those people who matter and Daniel Smith clearly had people who got her close to them talk to them I don't think I don't think she said oh here I'm gonna make a deal on behalf of Canada I think what she did was stress how important oil was to the Americans because people wouldn't understand us here in the East where of course you do some nuclear and you have some other things.

The Americans don't really have much heavy oil. They have a lot of light oil. Canada is the king of heavy oil. They need our heavy oil. And these are the kind of things that Danielle Smith was talking to the Americans about, about before you go jump off a cliff, this is what's important that you should know.

So I had no problems with her going down there and doing that and in the short term she bought some time for if not Alberta for Canada because they remember they had the delay etc. I think part of that was her going down there and talking to people in positions of authority which was not a given which was you couldn't get on the plane and go and talk to the part to the president unless you knew somebody who knew somebody and And so I had no problems. Yeah, Mara Lago, she absolutely had access. Are you at all concerned about her intent?

Like perhaps she's open to the idea of Canada as a 51st state. No, she's a Canadian. Again, here's another thing, and I write this, I try to tell people, Canada, nobody is more Canadian than Albertans. Albertans want to be Canada. What Albertans want is for the people

who don't like Canada to get the hell out. And I don't have to tell you who they are, but it starts with a Q and ends with a C. If you don't want to play by the same sort of book that we all do, then get the heck out. And right now we have too many people who are not necessarily playing from the same playbook. Alberta doesn't want to go anywhere We love what but Albertans the residents of Alberta of all the provinces in this country

They are the most opened to becoming 51st state of the United States Now I have so first let me just There's a lot of people but it's it's a small majority of the people. So, cause I was, uh, there's a, uh, how do you say, Lays, Laysay, Laysay, Laysay in French. Yeah. There's a poll. I won't go into too many of the details, but bottom line is this poll, uh, over across the entire country of Canada says 9% of Canadians and who are these 9%? I want, let me talk to them on Toronto. Mike, are you part of the 9% Bruce?

Do you want Canada to become a 51st state? Looking in the eyes. Why do Americans, why would Americans want all of our dynamic? They don't need all that. No, but do you, would you be open to the becoming a part of the United States? I would be open to a discussion

about a hemispheric trade zone, yes, I would. Would that mean when you envision that in your mind's eye there, maybe on the golf course or whatever? Do you envision us using American money? Well, now we're getting to the gist of it. Yes, I think the United States, the American dollar would be the core of our... It's the world currency. So, I mean, it's not like it's anything radical, but the problem is as you start to think, oh well wait a minute,

okay so who's going to decide economic policy for this sphere? Will it be the American people? Will Canada have representation if they're arguing about a point? Do the Americans always win? So there's lots of complications. I don't think this is an easy thing to achieve, but I think that in a global sense that the Northern Hemisphere of North America would be well-advised to be united in its economy and united in its defense. And I wrote a column three or four years ago,

and I called it, Sometimes an Ingrate Nation, and it was about when Trump first came in. And it really fries me that Canadians don't understand that they don't pay for their own defense. The goods that they ship overseas are protected, the shipping lanes are protected. That about somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe nine, 10% of Canadians have to get healthcare

by going across the border. There's a whole bunch of stuff that comes with our being partners with the Americans that we seem to take for granted. And the defense thing in particular is a big nut to swallow for the Americans. And so what bothered me was that people just pass that over and then we just condescend to the Americans.

There's lots to laugh about with the Americans. They do goofy stuff, they try goofy stuff, they have guys like Trump. But at the end of the day, realize that we're there at their sufferance in a major way. Now, if we wanted to pay for our defense and do all that sort of stuff,

then we could tell them to go piss off. But we have to also measure just a little bit what we have to say to them. And the condescension towards the Americans has never been I think a Very nice part of our personality. See I feel these are two different things though because I agree with you We took for granted that we would like our big buddies to the south If anybody if we took for granted that if Russia cause started causing trouble up north or whatever

Arctic there that you know, us would have our back and you know, he'd like like like Nelson M up north or whatever, Arctic there that US would have our back and like Nelson Muntz or whatever protecting, Ralph, no, who was it? Martin Prince, I think that's the Lemon of Troy episode, great episode of the Simpsons. But without a doubt, there's a lot of lessons being learned right now in this reliance on the United States and there was a smugness with that too.

Like we could kind of, we could talk up a game without having to pay the price. We knew they were going to protect us because we beat. Right. So that's different to me than you, Bruce Dobegan, feeling like you would like to be using American greenbacks as part of some kind of a consortium or whatever with, you know, you know, Mexico, United States and well, it's the world currency. There's a lot of places that's different than you. Okay. Well, not States and Canada. Well, it's the world currency. There's a lot of places around the world. But that's different than used,

okay, well, not a lot of, so, you know, there are, I think what you're describing is similar to the EU, right? Where there are many countries in Europe that are using the Euro. Right, right. But that's different than if all the countries said, hey, we're all gonna use the German,

what are they, Francs or whatever. But if you're paying for things internationally, if you're doing international buying, et cetera, it's almost always done using the American dollar. You will convert your currency to American dollar. I mean, there's exceptions and I know some of these are gonna say, you know. But these are conversions, that's different than actually

using the American dollar. No, no, but it's the currency of the world, it's the backbone of the currency of the world is the American dollar. I don't say that because I love this stuff. There were dollar bills. I'm so fed up with their freaking dollar bills. I was down there I throw them away when I'm in the States here I tip people outrageously because I don't want to handle like this big wad of $1 bills. Anyhow, I I don't Worship the American dollar, but it's a reality and and I'm willing to think like where are we in 25 years?

What's best for us? if I've said this before, maybe on your show, but other places too, is that if the Americans decide to not protect us, the Chinese will be on Vancouver Island in about 15 minutes, the Russians will be in the Arctic in about 20 minutes. So we have to be realistic about what kind of world we're in, what kind of threats we would face if we didn't have the Americans behind us, and what kind of country we want to be. Because right now, it's a very disparate kind of community in Canada. The hockey game was great. We looked at each other and said, oh, here's something, we're all on the same side. But there's so few things

that we feel that way about these days. And so you have to be open to saying, okay, well, where are we in 20, 25 years? Will we have the same borders? Are we going to sell some of our water to the Americans? Because definitely Trump would love to buy our water as well as other national stuff. I don't think you should be declared a heretic for asking those questions. But right now, that's considered to be almost treasonous.

Well, it sounds like what you're describing there would most definitely jeopardize our sovereignty. That's possible, yeah, but on the other hand, we- But why is that on the table? I guess that's where- On the other hand, the Chinese being on Vancouver Island would threaten our sovereignty too. I'm just saying we have to be able to imagine

all of the possibilities of what could happen in the next 25 years when we're deciding what to do today and what policies to put in place. And clearly you just got back from Florida, so you are still comfortable spending your leisure time in the United States and spending money there. I'll be able to family home there. I'd like to forward, we have a family home there.

And what's interesting is my next door neighbors, the husband and wife, he refused to vote for Trump and she did vote for Trump. And so it was interesting to hear them have the discussion as Americans talking about their attitude towards them. So, but Southern Florida is, yeah, it's pretty Republican. Okay, so I gotta finish up this poll thing here quickly,

which is that, really quickly here, which is that 9% of Canadians across the country were, I'm gonna get the right terminology, wanted Canada to become the 51st state. 85% do not, geez, that seems low to me, 85, but okay. And they went by province, right? So the support for the idea was highest in Alberta. Shock there.

15% of those polled in Alberta wanted to become the 51st state, 15. Meanwhile, in Atlantic Canada it was only 3%. So it's almost like as you move, yeah. So and then if we talk about this province, Ontario, Quebec, British Columbia, about 10% in those three, the three largest populated provinces in this country. So the other interesting thing which would not shock anybody is that people who consider themselves conservative supporters were far more likely to

Support becoming a US state than people who consider themselves liberal or NDP voters like only like 97 percent 97 Bruce now that's a good number of Liberal and NDP voters said they did not want to become the 51st state But 18 percent of conservative supporters said they would like want to become the 51st state, but 18% of conservative supporters said they would like to become a US state. Think about that, in this country, 18% of people who would be casting a vote for Pierre Poliev

said they wanted Canada to become a US state. I find that disturbing. First of all, you're presuming they will vote for the conservatives? I am, that is a presumption on my part. I think in the election last time, 5% of the election went to the Max Bernier party, which is much further right than the conservative party. But the numbers that you're quoting are small numbers, and they're directly proportionate

to how independent you think you are. Alberta financially has a financial independence that it could exploit if it wanted to go out. The Maritimes has the squiggly dot and I say that my brother lives in PEI, my son lives in Fredericton. I know how it is down there so I understand that they feel particularly vulnerable but all of these numbers are really kind of inconsequential in a big picture. What you're talking about is that 85% of people want to stay in Canada. Now what does that mean? What does that mean you want to stay in Canada? Does that mean you want to stay in Canada with the equalization program the way it is, etc.? I mean it's

one of those polling tricks that you ask, you know, would you... Yeah, want to become a 51st state is how they word it this way. Would you go and get a rescue dog? Well, yeah, I mean, you know, it you, would you. Yeah, want to become a 51st state is how they word it this way. Would you go and get a rescue dog? Well, yeah, I mean, you know, it appeals to your virtue, et cetera. The question is, gets more complicated when you get down to the details. And again, people in Alberta know

how much they contribute to confederation. They know how much money they make and how much, what it's worth to the country. And they know how important oil is to the country. And it's hard to under emphasize and they know how important oil is to the country and and it's hard to under emphasize or to overemphasize the how people in Alberta feel about Quebec having stopped the pipeline going through their province and this whole thing about oh it's not in our culture etc. Well it's part of our country and had we've been able to take the oil to

the East Coast we'd have been able to build refineries in New Brunswick which certainly needs the work. We wouldn't have had to buy Saudi oil or Venezuelan oil, et cetera. And some of the stuff that's been going on right now with Mr. Trump, with him, you know, exploiting our vulnerabilities wouldn't have happened. I mean, that's just one small thing,

but people in Alberta are very resentful of Quebec, what they did. And then on top of that, Quebec takes $14 billion a year in equalization. And they have hydro power and they have other things that are off the table. So there are all sorts of things that are going on in our country that need to be the trans-border stuff,

the BC wine coming to Ontario, whatever. There's lots of stuff that has to be ironed out. So these numbers, these are boxcar numbers. They sound interesting, they sound good, but- It's podcast fodder, okay? And those talk radio stations across the country here. Bruce, I'm They sound good, but it's podcast fodder. Okay. And those talk radio stations across the country here,

Bruce, I'm glad you're here. You're my Alberta correspondence. I need to know what Alberta is thinking. Cause I do tend like many people, I fall into this trap of like thinking everybody thinks like my Toronto circle and then realizing, I'll talk to somebody from Alberta like yourself and realize, oh, like they think the opposite over there like it is

Something we tend to fall into this trap where I won't call it the echo chamber I don't know what this community is here But I am a born and raised Toronto guy and I never moved to Calgary like you did here But back to Danielle Smith for a moment here Because you sound kind of I think you've you felt it was good that she went to Mar-a-Lago and did that whole thing with Kevin O'Leary, I guess, invited her down there. And you felt that was good because you get the ear of people like Donald Trump when you're hanging out at Mar-a-Lago and you felt that was a good thing. Danielle Smith is headlining an event in Florida later this month with right wing social media personality, Ben Shapiro. And a recent tweet-

I like Ben. And a recent tweet from Ben Shapiro. And a recent tweet- I like Ben. And a recent tweet from Ben Shapiro. Yeah, you can like Ben. That's okay with me. I won't stop you. Fellow podcaster. He recently tweeted at our current prime minister, Justin Trudeau.

This is the quote, when we take Canada, you will be expelled to Panama to work on the canal. Like that's the quote. So what, so I'm just curious. You're comfy. this is fine. This is all fun and games here that Shapiro can tweet that and then Daniel Smith can go smile

and headline an event in Florida with that gentleman. I have a wide berth for public speech. We allow people to go in the midst of an intersection in the middle of the day and have a rally in which they advocate for the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews and we don't put them all in jail. So I have a pretty wide for what's acceptable. They're making a political argument.

And she's at it. There's nothing that says that she's endorsing what Shapiro says. There's pictures. I'll give you an example. There's pictures of Mark Carney sitting beside Giseline Maxwell, who of course was Epstein's procurer. Does that make him, does that make him, well there's other pictures of him with.

No, I don't believe that one though. I don't believe he's ever met her is my point. He says he hasn't met her and that was proven to be a doctored photo, that photo that was, like that's the kind of misinformation we're dealing with in 2020. Well, I've yet to see anybody to say that it wasn't a real photograph.

And my point being that even if it is a real photograph, he's sitting next to, he's a political person, he's a public person, you get pictures taken with you, well, all the time. So somebody goes to an event and says something when Daniel Smith's there, does that mean she undertakes to agree with it? No, it doesn't.

It means that she's on a dais at a place and she's been invited to speak, and she speaks her mind about what she's representing in Alberta. And you believe- Can we only speak to people who we believe, who are on our side? I mean, this is the problem.

If that were true, I wouldn't have Bruce Doe begin in the basement right now. And you just said side. I mean, this is the problem. You just said it. If that were true, I wouldn't have Bruce Dobigan in the basement right now. No, and you just said it. I mean, but to me- We have an echo chamber in Alberta too, by the way. So in case- So it's good we talk once in a while.

So it's funny, somebody, actually I have a question from him in a moment. James Early on Blue Sky said, he loves Toronto Mike because one day Bruce Dobigan's in the basement, the very next day Scott Thompson's in the basement. Like this is the variety being the spice of life. Why I come here. That's why you're here.

And I'm glad you're here. And have I given you the lasagna yet from Palma pasta? I have a lasagna in my freezer from Palma pasta there in Mississauga and Oakville. And as you know, cause you've had many at lasagna from here, I think it all ends up with your son maybe in, in nearby, but delicious. And they're gonna feed everybody who comes out to TMLX 18 on June 26.

So June 26, 2025, 6 to 9 p.m. If you're hearing my voice right now, you're invited to come to 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard in South Etobicoke. That's Great Lakes Brewery. GLB will buy you your first beer, and then Palma Pasta will cater the event free food Come hang with other FOTM. It's not an echo chamber because we even allow people like Bruce don't begin there

So Bruce you are never seen with a bunch of radicals like I know you'll probably be in Calgary But if you were in town June 26, I would love to see you In Ireland, okay You know st. Patrick's Day is coming up. They have a great stout. I know everybody thinks Guinness. And I'm here to tell you, there's actually a fantastic stout from Great Lakes Beer that would be made

in Canada replacement for. Stout is great. Why are we down on Guinness now or what? Well, no, we're not down on Guinness, we're on GLB. Oh, Canadian stuff. So it's like a brood right here. I thought you were making a statement about the Irish or something. No, I had a great, I're on, we're not down on Guinness. We're on GLB. So it's like a brood right here. I thought you were making a statement about the Irish or something.

I had a great, I gotta say, I guess you've done it too. Maybe you'll tell me now, but the brewery, what's it called? The Stonehouse, the brewery in Dublin, where they make the Guinness. We did the tour, Monica and I, and we had that, you get a pint at the top and then you overlook city. And that's, that might be the most delicious non GLB beer you'll ever have in your life.

Bruce is what if it's your birthday they also will give you the mug to keep the mug. Okay next time I got a doctor some and I went to Jameson's on the other side of town which is the whiskey place right I saw I had 24 year old Jameson's whiskey. See now we're to Ireland I'm pro pro Ireland. My my peoples are from Ireland. I've been to Ireland. Love Ireland. Oh, top of the morning to you, Russ. Oh, it's lovely to be on your show. OK, so lots of ground being covered here.

I know I'm cooking with gas down. We are going to segue over to Alan Eagleson actually in a moment here, because I have the perfect segue. Like I said, I have the perfect segue. We'll see how it goes. But. So Danielle Smith, you're comfortable even if the perception from this neck of the woods is there's a maga leanings over there but you're you're telling me she is you're telling me in your opinion Danielle Smith is uh in favor of Canada remaining an independent sovereign nation and does not want

Canada to be absorbed by the United States annexed by Donald Trump. Okay. Sure. I want to make sure that my friend Bruce is on board of that because she's a loyal Canadian and she's, she's representing her province and all of that means, and she's trying to do it within Canada and with some people who just won't listen to her. So British Columbia is just, I shouldn't say British Columbia. I should say the lower mainland and the Island are just so fubar these days. It's just, it's incredible.

It's incredible. But you can't have everything. And to what do you, cause on this very program, and you know, it's no secret how I might lean in different matters here. I'm not a big Pierre Pauli fan that might shock some listeners up to hear it right now.

But as recently as, I'd say as recently as December on this program, I would speak to people from the CBC about, you know, his pledge to defund the CBC. And I would speak to it as an inevitability when Pierre Poliev has a majority government in this country. I saw it as an inevitable majority government for Pierre Poliev's conservative party. It was just a matter of, it's been 10 years, time to change things up.

It was going to change and I had accepted this. Like I'd accepted it. But since this 51st state rhetoric from Donald Trump, at least if, you know, and we can only take a grain of salt with these polls, but at least if you believe the polls, if you feel the zeitgeist, the tables have turned. I no longer believe it's an inevitability

that Pierre Poliam will win a majority government. I'm just curious if you think he's still got a chance to form that majority government after 10 years of liberal rule. Well, the poll I saw on CBC itself last night said that they are literally right on the dividing line for a majority, the conservatives are still. Now I'm expecting of course Mr. Carney to get a bump

and we'll see that, that's natural. We'll see how long the bump lasts. We saw the Kamala Harris bump last right through to the election and then we found out that a lot of the pollsters weren't telling us the truth. But anyhow, I'm sure he'll get a natural bounce and then we'll have to see what happens to it after that.

Again, I don't want to get more than two weeks ahead of myself on any of this stuff. But the situation that I see right now is very fluid, very fluid, and another thing I'm really curious about is Doug Ford, your Premier, a Conservative. Third majority in a row. I'm really curious what he happened. What he does now. Does Doug Ford sit there and say, okay, I'm a conservative

and I really don't like the liberals. Well, I will support Paul Yev. That's option one. Option two is, do I say, hmm, you know, maybe I'll just kind of sit this one out. That's a possibility. And number three is, he sees that if Paul Yev doesn't win this,

that there will be a vacancy at the head of the national conservative party. Is that what he does? He's going to be a big fan. How's his French? Have we heard his French yet? Yes, none. Because yesterday I was hearing, my mom was telling me, and my mom doesn't speak French by the way, fluently. Although I have four kids who speak French fluently,

which is so they can tell me about the accents. But they were like, oh, Mark Carney's French isn't very good. And then I heard him talking yesterday. And I think to my Toronto ears, it sounded fine. Like I was like, oh yeah, I guess maybe the accent's not great or whatever. And I was wondering, oh, like I guess in 2025, you still have to have decent French to become prime minister.

And then I thought about Doug Ford, because I've long said, I think Doug Ford, and this is my thoughts again, speaking for Mike just speculating in his South Etobicoke basement right now, everybody. I think Doug Ford would like to see Pierre Paulia fail in this upcoming election and be ousted because much like, you know, Aaron O'Toole or Andrew Scheer or whatever couldn't usurp the liberal party. And I see Mr. Three Majorities in Ontario and right in the whole You know Canada is not for sale Train I can see Doug Ford's you can't buy those wines

We've already paid for yes, but you can send them back and get full refund. You know, this is like books Yeah, you know the book world, right? Yeah. Yeah. So if you don't open these Back and get and then I saw the consignment thing debunked, that in fact that they had purchased the wines and that you can't, they couldn't return them. I don't know. I've seen both things. Well, we'll dig in that. But regardless, I'm glad he did that. Like this is a rare Dofo movie, a proof of, but I can see to finish that stupid long winded thought is, yes, Dofo slides in, becomes leader of the conservative party. And yet at some point down the line, it's prime minister Doug Ford, believe it or not.

Yeah, I don't think he'll wash in the West as the leader of the Conservative Party, but that's okay, listen. I'm just, as I say, fascinated as a matter of pure politics, where he decides to go. One of his cabinet ministers, Neil Lumpsten, is a friend of mine, and I'm curious. CFL.

Yeah, have you had him on your show? No, but I used to hear him on Primetime Sports. You should. I would have him on. Interesting guy. He's a member of Beverly out in Burlington. His son was doing, well, his son was doing the bobsled. Yeah, and I know him, he still lives in that category.

Yeah, Jesse, I know Jesse. And he almost made the NFL. He was a pretty good player. Can I get back to the CBC? Because we sort of hinted at that. Get back there. My position about the CBC and let's say TV Ontario has been and always is,

is that I believe there's a market for it. Right now I think only maybe two or 3% of Canadians get their news from CBC. It's a smaller number. But there is a business argument for a broadcaster who promotes what the CBC does, the way they cover the news and the radio shows and all that stuff.

And I don't think that we have to be going and crush them. But what I would suggest first is you find that if somebody in the private market would like to buy the CBC or parts of the CBC and resurrect them or have them work. I still think that there's a market, desperate market across Canada for local news and radio and TV. In Calgary, a city of, what are we,

a million six, million seven now, the CBC TV station I think has maybe three reporters, four reporters, there's nothing there. There's nothing there. So it's kind of an insult to the people that there's nobody covering. And that's a big market. My son in Fredericton, it's even smaller, and Charlottetown where my other brother lives,

it's just like, they're just keeping the lights on. So I think that there's an argument for maintaining local broadcasting and stuff. But I would like to see to a large extent if we're gonna continue to fund it as taxpayers that they would get out of the opinion and newsmaking business at the federal level. The conflict of interest right now

where they're being paid, not just MCTV and a bunch of other people are getting paid, the conflict that we have right now with our media being paid what they're being paid by the government to stick to basically stave off the reality of our markets is, is unconscionable and we should get away from it. But I still think that there's a model for a CBC radio regional kind of networks that's out there and doing a couple of documentaries about Lycan and,

and, and elk and whatever else they do. Because Bruce, as you know, if you leave it to private, let's say, let's make, let's pick on CTV here, right, the biggest private news broadcaster, but they'll close down if they don't think it's worthwhile to be in these smaller markets, they'll shut down their presence there. Yeah, well we keep making, we keep putting off their day of destiny by throwing them new money and funding them. You know, the chorus people, I mean they just, I guess it was our friend Sid Sixero was doing the morning show, I think that was breakfast television, and he's out the door. We keep giving them enough money so that they are able to put off making the decisions they have to about what they're doing.

They just, warehousing all of this broadcasting which they just throw on the air, it's mindless pap a lot of the time, and it gets them away from the inevitability of what they're doing. The government has got to stop funding the media in this country so that the people who run it will give us the service we want.

Right now they're giving us the service they want and it's not helping anybody. Do you Bruce think that there is a direct line between the government that happens to be in office and the editorial, the actual CBC coverage? Like do you think, like because I do know prior, again I'm going back here, I'm a bit younger than you but not too young to remember 10 years or so of Harper being the prime minister in his conservative party. Did you think there was interference at that point between the Harper government and the CBC?

I'm trying to understand, are you suggesting the CBC is slanted towards whatever government is in power? My opinion is that journalism, since I first got into it, has changed. When I was first in at CBC at CBLT radio in 1983, we had people like Bill Copps, and we had guys who were meat and potatoes kind of people who were there.

They didn't come from any refined political machine or whatever. Right now our broadcasting in particular news and current affairs is dictated by a lot of people who've come out of higher education, where they've gone to Carleton or whatever, been educated, and as a result of that, their politics are a certain way.

So they don't have to be told to do stuff. They're doing what they believe is true, and that their hearts are pure, and they're doing the broadcasting that they think is necessary to the nation. And we don't have the diversity of people informing these decisions that we used to and again at CBC I have maybe two friends left who I work with and they're hanging on by their fingernails and

they're the ones who tell me that the people that they talk to in the newsrooms are clueless, clueless about a broader sense of the society that they have a very prescribed view of their mission and that they're carrying a torch for Progressive things etc etc and that they don't understand that what really people want to know about is what's the weather tomorrow? And why is the traffic so slow? All right, Bruce speaks for Bruce. I hear you now. What are your thoughts on pure poly of don't think that's a lot of people Well, I mean I I'm here to, I'm not here to tell you you're wrong in this conversations you're having with people. I'm not here to tell you wrong. I'm more interested in what,

what you think on these things. Uh, I, I, I don't necessarily agree, but I'm interested in your opinion. But pure poly of again, and then now, then I'm going to hockey. So this is imminent hockey talk imminent, but pure poly of, do you think he has a likability problem? Like it's simply in terms of they often talk. I find he's making Doug Ford seem warm and fuzzy. Like, oh, let me go and have a coffee with Doug. Like when I see Pierre Poliev, Poliev has the charisma of a turnip. But I would say the same thing about Carney. Carney last night was the worst rotary speaker I've ever heard. I mean, he's not, it was true.

Imagine somebody under the age of 50 listening to that speech and thinking, yeah, that's something I got to get on it. So I would say the same thing about Poliev is he's refined a certain speaking style and his comms people have got him in a certain place, but there's nothing dynamic about it. And I'm just kind of waiting for him to be dynamic in a way.

Again, whatever you think of Trump, he set himself apart by being a dynamic personality that was able to seize the dais. And I don't know. He's good at television, as Antonia was saying the other day. He's very good at TV. Great episode, by the way.

You gotta listen to Antonia. I will, I'll listen to the full thing. I just, in preparation, I listened a little bit, but as I say, don't like to listen too much. You're gonna love it, you're gonna love it. Because I would get too much of your communist stuff in my head and I would be all, I'm just kidding. Did you watch the Four Nations event?

I did. Well, here's, I had this question too. What, how would things have changed had we lost the second game as well as the first game? Or what would have happened? Because I think we need a third game, right? The Americans beat us pretty good in the first game and Canada beat them in the second game as well as the first game? Or what would have happened? Because I think we need a third game, right? The Americans beat us pretty good in the first game and Canada beat them in the second game.

So kind of as far as I'm concerned, they're tied. We needed a third game to decide that. You're changing the rules, Bruce. Like that doesn't matter that we lost the first game. I think that's what we needed was a third game to decide. Cause if we'd only played the one game against the Americans, we'd have had to change our development system.

It was terrible. We had no goalies, and then all of a sudden, you know, it's just. And that over time, he stood on his head and all is well in the world. Exactly, three or four games. I would have liked to have seen, I still would like to see that,

and maybe we'll see that the Olympics. It's like, I think Antonia might have said something. I mentioned that, you know, Doug Ford had a majority government for the third time, and again, I'm no Doug Ford voter here, but we are, we finally have a liberal MPP in this particular writing here in South Etobicoke. And I was grateful, but I pointed out to Antonia that no, these are the rules. Like this is the system. This is like somebody saying Canada is now communist because we have a new prime minister without

an election, right? Like, no, this is the rule. It doesn't matter that X percent of eligible voters voted for a Doug Ford progressive conservative MPP. That doesn't matter. Like these are, so this whole idea that we needed a third game. No, we, the top two teams were going to play at this time in this location in Boston on this night. And the winner of that game was going to be declared the champion of the four nations event in Canada, fair and square. Canada won that game there's some there's some Stuff about fairness had had it been the the champion of the NHL regular season the Vancouver Canucks would have two Stanley Cups They were the best team two years in a row Presidents trophy, but it doesn't it doesn't work and I fully hear your argument

I'm just saying as a hockey fan right and we're talking about which was the better team, I think that they were dead even, and each team had what I would consider to have been a convincing win. I'd like to have seen a tie-breaking win. I'm not saying that they had to change the format or they'd have to go back and play it. But you're not questioning the integrity of the fact

that we Canadians are calling ourselves the champion of the Four Nation event. You're not questioning the integrity of that declaration. The champions of a format that was invented by the NHL about six weeks before. But no, listen, you take from it what you want. If the idea is that we're the kings of hockey for winning that game, God bless you.

Just saying that. Although one best, we'll just chime in to say, I am wearing the Canada jersey today. but best on best, best on best, right? Best on best. It has been a long time since Canada did not win a best on best tournament because the last best on best we've had was this four nations. And prior to that, I think it was nine years or there was the, the, the world cup that we won, right? With a Marchand having the big goal or whatnot. And then it was the Olympics in Sochi I think we're going back there. We won that gold medal and then it was the Olympics in Vancouver and we as you know, Sidney Crosby of the Golden Goal

So you got to go back you got to go back to 2006 I guess it is since Canada when when I think Sweden won that year you're talking men's hockey men's I sorry I'm talking men's hockey. Men's, sorry. I'm talking men's hockey. Yes. I thought I'd throw that in there for a guy like you. But I'm aggressive like you to forget women. I am. I'm going to say something very,

I got to say something controversial. I can't have you saying all the controversial stuff. I actually am of the belief of the Canadian men's hockey team played the Canadian women's hockey team that the men would win. I'm of this opinion. I say, what do you say about that?

You're gonna not gonna say anything. I'll let you,. What do you say about that? You're not going to say that. I'll let you, that just hang out there for you to defend in the future. I agree with you a hundred percent. Well, you know, there's no rule saying women can't play in the NHL. Like it's true. Right. So you know, that's true. Leave it there. There could be a goalie. I think there could be a woman goalie. But I just don't think that's the strength and all the other things that go into being an NHL guy.

But I believe if there could be, there would be. Because it would be great marketing PR. Like Menon-Reyon was used in the exhibition games because Esposito, it's all going to come back to hockey here. You know, she didn't play an NHL game as you know, Menon-Reyon. Listen, I wrote my column. And I love women's hockey. It's competitive and amazing. I'm here to point out that due to biology and some other factors, I don't know, is this controversial?

I like to see you skating backwards here now. I thought I'd throw that in on you. I would like to see though, like you know, let's see the Canadian men's play at the Canadian women. That would be, I don't know if it would be a good fight. I wrote two columns about the invented championship of the world, whatever the NHL decided.

An NHL invention that beat the hell out of the fucking All-Star game, we'll agree on that. Oh, absolutely, no Czechs, no Russians, et cetera. But I digress. After the first game I said, Canada hits wall, wall wins, what do we do next? And then the second one was Canada won the game, and when it mattered, they won the game that mattered.

And you could say that the American guys were injured, whatever, that doesn't matter. You played with what you got that day. But all I felt like afterwards was considering how we felt after the first game that we really should have put the hammer down and really established that we are the best. We just, on that one night, we were the best.

For two nights or three nights before that. The night when it mattered, we were the best. We just, you know, on that one night we were the best. But two nights or three nights before that. The night when it mattered, we were the better team and we won that game without a doubt. Okay, I think I'm going to read James Early's question now, but I was going to ask, oh yeah, you mentioned no Russians, no Czechs. Russians were not invited because Putin invaded Ukraine. He did. You should. Is there a question? Geez, hang on, let me check my. because Putin invaded Ukraine. He did. You should.

Is there a question? Geez, hang on, let me check my. I know you're, you know, Donald Trump may have been on the record at some point saying that Ukraine caused that war. And I'm here to tell you, Ukraine was a sovereign nation invaded by Putin and Putin started that war.

And if Putin wants to end that war, he can take his troops out of Ukraine. But that's why they weren't invited. And I'm glad Russia wasn't invited. But the Czechs, I think if it was a five nations event, the Czechs would be there. Like they're the fifth. Yeah, the Czechs is pretty good.

And listen, the What's His Name beat Canada, whatever the last tournament was earlier in the tournament. Is that Latvia? Latvia, Latvia beat Canada. But this will be next year, right? We're so close to having best on best in the Olympics and that's when you'll get the dry side in Germany and all that stuff. I hold that against Gary Bettman as they have destroyed international hockey under his regime.

He thought it was more important to try to make the Phoenix Coyotes work in the desert. And I hold that against him. We agree on that. Finally, we agree on that. Finally, we agree on something. James Early wrote about when he heard he was coming on, he said, in his book, The Defense Never Rests, not to be confused with F. Lee Bailey's memoir, that's in parentheses, outlined,

kind of awkwardly written, but you know what it means, outlined Alan Eagleson's financial mistreatment of Bobby Orr. Both Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky seem to gravitate towards individuals like Donald Trump. Is it Hawke's version of the Stockholm Syndrome? I'll use James Early's question there and let us sit there for a minute to please, I'm more interested in Gretzky than Orr, but Orr will tie us to Eagleson and we can have a little chat about that. But what are your thoughts on Wayne Gretzky's absolute silence when it comes to his friend Donald Trump's

threats to annex our sovereign nation, the beautiful Canada? I think his, I think he, as a private citizen, he's entitled to his silence. I think both, Orr lives maybe a couple of miles away from our place in Florida. His son had a store nearby us, a pet grooming store that used to be called Paws for Hockey, P-A-W-S for Hockey. So he's down there and they, they're both Americans really.

Now they've been down there. They've lived there for a long time. Gretzky living in mostly in Southern California and they're Americans and they have an opinion and they're allowed to express their opinion. Um, what they see in Trump and that they don't see in Canada anymore. I can't speak to, uh, but they both felt like that they wanted to say, this is who I'm supporting in the election. And that's their right as whatever.

So begs the question and what you're probably saying is what obligation do they still have to Canada to carry the flag? Are we paying them enough? Are we not paying them enough? What do we need for them to do so that they can sort of make us happy with their opinion? I noticed that the ad for Gretzky that was the one where he was talking to people

in a drug store seems to have disappeared lately, the one about some sort of- I noticed all the Gretzky, be it betting, sports betting, or yes, that one where he is the pharmaceutical ad you're talking about right now. In other words, what does he owe us anymore, I guess is the question. He's entitled to his political opinion, so the other question is what does he owe us?

Does he really owe us to get out there? I don't know why they had him as the guy for that game, why they hauled him out. You have a bit of a troll job, if you ask me, to see that it was Gretzky. At a time when people like me, who slept on Wayne Gretzky sheets were, I could feel in the pit of my stomach, anger and disappointment, just even seeing his

foot, even seeing his face in that game. We lost with the three fights in nine seconds, right? The one that was in Montreal, it was Mario Lemieux. And I had the opposite reaction. I was like, I loved Mario. Mario's been in the States for ages, but Mario never said, you know what? He never wore a mega hat. Well, he doesn't support anything. Mario's about Mario and God bless him, that's his right. But the Quebec, they wanted him to do stuff

in Quebec politically and he hasn't done it. And so he's kept his opinion to himself and nobody has roasted him. I don't know how long in advance they had booked Gretzky. Had they arranged with Gretzky six months ago to do this? Six weeks ago, six hours? I don't know. I mean, a lot of that stuff is lined up well in advance.

The NHL might've been a bit squeamish about him. On the other hand, the game was in Boston and Gretzky is an American citizen or partly American citizen as well. So maybe they thought, I just, it's just on a purely hockey basis too, by the way. The stuff about booing the national anthem is such a horse shit.

I'm sorry. Okay, you're anti-boo. Well, and here's for a really practical reason. Vancouver Canucks, for instance, I think they have six Americans in their lineup. The Raptors and all these guys. Our best player is American, Austin Matthews. So you're standing there in Toronto

and they're booing your national anthem. Are you gonna resign there? Are you gonna tell people, oh yeah, you wanna come up and play here? From a purely sports point of view, I think it's self-defeating. Yeah, it gives you about a minute or two of happiness. We booed them, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But in the end, you're just saying, this is kind of a toxic place if you're an American to come and play. I just thought it was stupid. It is toxic right now. Similarly why they'd boo the Russian anthem in Ukraine, okay, this is- Well, we haven't had-

Well, what time is it, Bruce? What time is it? It's 1129. Come back, he said everything changes in two days here. Well, Mr. Trump told me that he wasn't gonna bomb until a little later this afternoon. Not funny, Bruce. Not funny here.

And nobody, by the way, to your point, nobody said Gretzky doesn't have the right to stay silent. Of course, Wayne Gretzky has the right to stay silent. Toronto Star columnist apparently had other. Your buddy, Bruce Arthur. Felt like he had an obligation to come out and say things. There's no obligation. I would just say to that is his silence speaks volumes. And I think he now will.

And again, I don't care who I heard. I heard Doug Ford, Bobby or Janet Gretzky. These are people who spoke up for Wayne. No Wayne talk. Everybody's speaking up for Wayne like, oh, he's really hurt. He's being booed in Canada, whatnot and other stuff here. I'm saying these are the consequences of your inaction. Like the ramifications of your silence are that you are not popular in Canada right now. Even people will speak about changing with streets. I know when Edmonton, they got a statue

for him because I've taken a photo by it because I love this. And there's the highway that's just next to the white mud. Right, so this is the consequence, your silence speaks volumes. It is wild to me that he hasn't said anything because that is essentially like saying, I'm not going to speak against Donald Trump on this issue and it makes a lot of Canadian hockey fans upset.

He seems content to take the wrath of people. He doesn't seem to, it doesn't seem to be something that's moving him at the moment. No, no. And were I in his position, I'd have been more politically savvy about it, but he's, he's entitled. He's entitled. And again, he's done enough for our freaking country. And another thing that bothers me about it is you remember we had the whole charade about him. His wife was doing the gambling? Of course I do.

You remember the loyalty oath, how everybody protected him? Yeah. That it was his wife that was gambling? That's how much we love this guy. That's how much we were willing to go to excuse this guy. But now, he's now found exactly where the line is. You said he's done enough for this country, okay?

He hasn't lived in this country since the late 80s when he became a Los Angeles member of the Los Angeles Kings. He was sold by Paul Clinton there. But this matters so much more than a hockey game, okay? We're talking about Four Nations Cup. We could have lost that game in overtime. The Four Nations Cup, the history of this event. Yeah, anyhow.

Okay, so I was, you know, I watched it with my 10 year old. It's the first time he was really into one of these things. And it was a very exciting moment in this house when, when we, we went that game, who was it? Connor McDavid, Conor McDavid scored great pass by Mitch Marner, by the way, the guy that just tried to trade apparently didn't want to go to Carolina. Is that the latest rumor? Is that confirmed? I know. He was asked if he would go to Carolina and he said no.

He's got the no trade clause. I like, I don't say I like Marner. I was hoping that the problem is a lead fan is Marner is an excellent regular season hockey player and he was excellent in that four nations cup, but we haven't seen a great performance by Marner in the post season when it matters. But here, I'm off talk. Can I realize now, we actually, how do you feel about the fact that we might wind down this chatter here

with Gretzky here, and how do you feel about the fact that next time you visit, we dive into the Alan Eagleton talk, okay? I'm not surprised. I actually realize I don't have unlimited time, it's already been 90 minutes, and I enjoyed this chat, by the way. Have you got all your gifts?

Yes, you have. But just on the Gretzky front, is the consequences to his silence is that a lot of us die hard hockey fans who grew up in the 80s worshiping those Edmonton Oilert teams that he capped into Stanley Cubs. We don't wanna see that guy's face right now. I'll give a little teaser for when we finally ever get around to Eagle

Maybe you'll be dead next time next time the next time but when I was doing the story and and I was doing it Along with Russ Conway down in Boston So I don't want to make it sound like it was all me and Carl Brewer and Sue Foster and those people in any event Right the one guy who could have gone to Alan Eagleson and basically belled the cat and said, show us the numbers, here's what we understand to be the facts, let's do it. Gretzky, for a long time, just did nothing about it, didn't want anything to do with it, I'm a hockey player, et cetera.

He didn't feel any loyalty to the other hockey players to do it. And when he was finally forced to do it, I don't know, I think they showed him a copy of a Scott Young book or something or other and said, Hey, I read this. And he basically gave Eagles and the carte blanche to move forward. And Eagles and said, well, you know, I showed Wayne Gretzky and he had no problems there. So I felt Wayne let down hockey players at a time when guys like Andy Moog,

Pat Verbeek and other guys stood up and said, no, no, this is what really happened and Wayne didn't. So that's a teaser for an Eagleson discussion. Which I actually really wanna do, but I know now that you do frequently visit the city and when you're in town, you make a 90 minutes for me, which I love, and we could find out what's Alberta thinking, what's Bruce thinking, and we could dive

into this Alan Eagleson thing. But today there's just too much flying around. I wanted to check it out. I figured as much. I figured as much. You need to do the Saturday Night Live thing where five time people get a jacket. I'd come and wear your jacket.

How many times has it been? Do you know? This is five. Five, okay. I gotta get a jacket sponsor, you're telling me. I said to my wife, I was doing it today. She said, get a life. What are you, five times?

I swear. Well, does she know it's 1,647? I told her. Because percentage of a whole, as you know, six out of 1,647, not that much. I'm really happy to come, I always am. Fuck Gretzky, just wanna put it on the record here. I hope he'll appear, Paul, he has his daughter.

When we speak later today, Gretz and I, I'll tell him that you're put off. Do that, and way more than fuck Gretzky because he is just a hockey guy and he can be silent if he want. I had this talk, I had this talk the other day, but the guy I'm going to just fuck Donald Trump. That's a guy in Toronto saying that. I don't know about Alberta warm fuzzies for Donald Trump, but this guy and this rhetoric

is he's threats. He's interfering in my life. He's causing anxiety. Why do Canadians think he has to be your friend? He's voted in my life. He's causing anxiety to my children. Why do Canadians think he has to be your friend? He's voted in by America. I don't care. It's not us.

No, the difference between being, first of all, we're supposed to be allies, Canada and USA. We have a deal that he negotiated. I don't remember what they renamed. You can remind me, NAFTA, he renamed it. He likes to rename things. But we had a deal and he's violated the deal and I'm sick of the tariff threats.

I'm sick of the whole, we're gonna redraw the borders. I'm sick of the whole Great Lakes treaty. Throw it, no, we're gonna ignore this. There'll be a moment going forward to me that I know we gotta get out of here. But the symbolic moment was he goes to the Jimmy Carter funeral, they sit him next to Barack Obama and the two of them are sitting there having a big laugh fest. I'm going, these are supposed to be guys who hate each other.

I'm telling you, at some time in the future, you will see Donald Trump sitting beside a Canadian politician, and they'd be laughing it up with him and saying, oh, what, weren't those great times when we were negotiating? That's the kind of guy he is. I hope that photo takes place at Donald Trump's funeral, and I hope it's soon. Well, he can't talk at his own funeral.

He can't laugh it up his funeral. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. Bruce, thanks for this, buddy. We'll book another one because I like you and I like chatting with you. And I will get emails. I will get notes from people that I'm platforming this, whatever they're going to call you. Open their minds.

Right wing bigot. Something different. And I get to learn things from you. You hate Donald Trump. Oh, this is just in. I don't like Donald Trump. Not shocked. And that brings us to the end of our 1,647th show. Go to torontomic.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Not thepublicbroadcaster.com is where we can read your thoughts.

Yes, sir. And I'm at Doughboy on X and all those places. Please tune in. brucedoughbigginbooks.ca that's where all my books are. Buy some Bruce books he's an excellent writer. We need we need the money. He's been radicalized but he's still a good writer. On the left is that radical? I thought radical was the left. Anyhow whatever. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. You got beer for you there, Bruce. You got Palma pasta.

I got a lasagna in my freezer. Recyclemyelectronics.ca. That's where you go if you have old cables, old electronics, you don't throw that in the garbage. You go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Put in your postal code and find out where to drop it off. You're missing the shirt. Yeah, the Muhammad Ali shirt.

That's a... Ali knocking out Sonny Liston. Yeah. And I needed it today because I felt you'd be combative. Well, I want to see it in the photo we're going to take by Toronto Tree right now. Building Toronto's skyline with Nick Ainiis. Much love to Nick. And Ridley Funeral Home. This song playing right now is Shadowy Man on a Shadowy Planet, Having an Average Weekend.

It's the theme song for Kids in the Hall. And I'll see everybody tomorrow when my special guest is kid in the hall Scott Thompson. See you then.