Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Cadence Weapon: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1917

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

On this 1917th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Cadence Weapon about his new album, coming of age in Edmonton, winning the Polaris Prize and AI.A version of this podcast without programmatic ads is available to all Toronto Mike'd Patrons at patreon.com/torontomike.Toronto Mike'd, an award-winning podcast, is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca.If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It was good. His big cadence, aka the Black Brian Ferry. You know me as Cadence Weapon, also known as Raleigh Pemberton, making my Toronto mic debut. And we're going to talk hopefully about my new album, Forager. We're going to talk about my book, Ways of Listening. You know, we do multitudes here. Welcome to episode 1,000. 17 of Toronto Mikeed, an award-winning podcast, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great Lakesbeer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA.

Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Visit palma Pasta.com for more. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Catch a game at Christy Pits this summer. No, ticket required. Fusion Corpso, Nick Aienies. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline.

And Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 19. joining me today making his Toronto mic debut. It is indeed the 2021 Polaris Prize winner, Cadence Weapon. Roly, Cadence Weapon, which name would you prefer I refer to you as?

You can just call me Roly. Roly, Roly. And nice to meet you, man. I'm really excited to have this chat. Yeah, it's good to link up, you know. I feel like this is historic. Well, everything's historic if you think about it long enough. I have wanted you on, but we have a mutual bud. I think he's a bud.

Let me ask you right now. So I have in my possession, this book by FOTM Hall of Famer, Cam Gordon. It's called Track Changes. Did you or did you not, Roli? Did you speak to Cam Gordon for this book? I did. Yeah. I remember he hit me up, you know, because I used to be a blogger. I had a blog called Razor Blade Runner.

And, you know, that was around the time I was. starting music. I was I was also in the blog scene and so he wanted me to corroborate some things from that era. I have to ask, do you still blog? Yeah, you could say so in a way because I have a substack cadence weapon dot substack.com and it's got the same spirit as the blogging I used to do. So this is back in Edmonton when you started this blog. Yeah, actually weirdly it was in, I was in university. I went to university at Hampton University in Virginia. and I was just in my dorm blogging and writing for pitchfork, doing reviews, making Breaking K Fave, my first album. And it was a lot of it was just, that's all I used to do at college.

Love it. So I have a copy. And I'll just tell the listenership that Cam Gordon will be at TMLX22, which is the 22nd Toronto mic listener experience, which is happening. Roli, it's happening on June 23. So 10 days from now, it's a Thursday night, 6 to 9 p.m. at Great Lakes Brewery, which is 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard, down the street from the Costco, in South Atobico, and let me just tell you that everybody who comes, and there's no ticket required, just show up. You get your first beer on the house, courtesy of Great Lakes Brewery, and you get delicious Italian food from Palma pasta. But Cam Gordon's going to have a little, I don't know, we're going to set a table or something, and he's going to sell books. Oh, we should do that next time.

Listen, we should do that next time. So, you know, you're invited. If you said to me now, 10 days out, look, I'm pretty nimble. It's just me over here. If you said to me, I'm going to be at TMLX selling books, ways of listening or whatnot. I'd make a table for you. I'd set that up for you. I appreciate that, you know.

We'd make that happen. But I'm also in this book. So we're united by both being in track changes because chapter 11 is the opening of chapter 11 is all about me, my friends. Oh, wow. Well, Cam, send me a copy. What is this? Cam, wait a minute. I didn't, you don't have, he didn't send you a copy.

I have not seen the book. Okay. Well, here, look, says, you know what? Did he sign this for me to personalize it? I don't think he did. You can have my copy. Okay. And I'll make Cam give me an, you need to have a copy of this book.

Yeah, thank you. That's yours. Okay. I appreciate that. And I'm going to take you back to Edmonton. We're going to talk about Forger. There's a lot. We're going to talk about new stuff, old stuff.

But since I gave you a book, I'm just going to give you a second book real quick. The history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball, they play at Christy Pitts, no ticket required there either. You know, if you're in town, I know you're a Hamilton guy now, but if you're in town,

check out some Leafs action. What is this baseball? I don't understand. It's the CBL, Canadian Baseball League. It is the second highest level of baseball that you can watch in the city of Toronto. Wow, and they let them call themselves the Maple Leafs.

I'm surprised. They had it first. They had it first. Oh, wow. Oh, my friend. Yeah, the history in there you're going to learn. The Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. I'm not up on this at all.

So now you got the Cam Gordon book. Cam, I'm going to send you an invoice for this promotion. And you're going to give me a copy because I just gave my copy to Ralee here. But now you got a copy of the Cam Gordon book track changes, which you're in. He should have sent you one. I'll let him know. I'll let him have it, okay? Because he'll come by here soon for FOTM cast.

Also, you got the Maple Leaf's book as well. Thank you. And that beer's going home with you back to the hammer. Okay. Fresh craft beer from Great Lakesbury. Okay, let's get into it. Too many ads off the top. Let's get into it.

A gentleman named Milan wrote me and said, Greetings from Steeltown just wanted to send a recommendation. You should look into interviewing Cadence Weapon. He just released Forager, entirely produced by Junior T. Did I say it? That's right, yeah. Junior T. All live instruments, no samples, and I think it's his best album to date.

And I got that note, and I said, why, I figured it's a long drive from Hamilton. I almost think I feel I didn't want to bother you. But I was like, I've been wanting to talk to you for a very long time. My wife was born and raised at Edmonton. Nice. And I'm going to play a song in a moment, which I've played for her, just to tell me what the references mean, because it's very inside Edmonton.

And she explains, you know, what's all of her square, et cetera. But I guess I'm glad you're here, and I want to thank Milan for suggesting it, because that's the day I sent the email. Yo, shout out, Milan. Thank you. So you never know. Send me recommendations. Mike at TorontoMike.com.

If it hits me in the right moment, I'll leap to action. Okay, we'll make it happen here. So, should I, what do you want to, do you want to start the new one, the new album and go a bit backwards,

or do you want to start in Edmonton? Whatever you want to do, yeah, let's play this, Edmondson. Okay, so this again, today happens to be my fifth, no, my 13th,

I got to get the years right, my 13th wedding anniversary, and I married a beautiful woman from Edmonton, Alberta. Congratulations. Thanks, there's just a good, nice coincidence there, but let's play this one and talk about this.

Yo, you know, it's corrupt where I'm from, Edmonton tough This week's could speak about the heads with drugs Rough City life will leave you red with blood Punch holes in the walls Then they fed the thugs lunch

After they rocked the party in a literal sense Sentimentary propensity They had the kid in the lips shit You could be on white half Have the time you life or Then you get your arm broken By a random cab driver As Katie

The night life is mad crazy When a drunk tries his TV car He was trying to play me But I didn't let him We peeled off quick Then we parked at IGA To break the seal off the look. Don't generalize. You must think and wonder. Why I drink 40s and memorize bus link numbers.

Well, I don't have a license, but I'm trying to gain prominence because I'm living in a house with a fridge full of condiments. See me on the bill better follow me there. I signly swear, I'll make it back to Oliver Square. See me on the bill better follow me there. I solemnly swear, I'll make it back to Oliver Square. See me on the bill, better follow me there. I solemnly swear, I make it back to Oliver Square. See me on the bill, better follow me there. I swear I'll make it back So I'm drunk at the funky pickle Rowley take me back to Edmonton

Born and raised at Edmonton right? Yes I've been to White Ave I just want you to know So yeah the thing about this song That I find really interesting I wrote it when I was 18 years old It was one of my earliest songs

That I actually released And when I hear it back now I just really I find it very funny It's like a time capsule of things that don't exist anymore. So tell me, because again, I had my wife, some of the stuff she didn't even pick up,

but she was explaining, you know, you made a reference to the place she grew up in, but can you tell me what do you hear in these lyrics that no longer exists? Yeah, a lot of the bars that I'm referencing, a lot of the, even the bus routes that I'm saying, like, it definitely makes me feel like I'm unk, for sure.

So you're only a teenager when you write, this. You mentioned breaking K-fabe, which of course I know from my friend Stu Stone, that's a wrestling term. Breaking K-fabe. But this is when it all begins for you, right? Yeah, that was the very beginning, really. This was the album that kind of put me on the map in Canada

for a rap. And for me, making this song, and I think this was the thing that really made my music stand out, was I wanted to make music about where I actually came from. I didn't want to pretend, like, you know, some Canadian artists back then used to be this thing where they'd try to rap with like a New York accent,

or something or just talk about American stuff and just try and become popular that way. But yeah, I was just like, you know, I listen to all this music. Oh, they're referencing New York stuff. They're referencing L.A. Even Maestro decided to get heard and just went to Brooklyn and sort of became like maestro rapping.

Nah, this kid can't be from Canada, but he started, you know, rapping from a New York perspective for a while. Oh, for sure. I mean, like, yeah, you listen even to that early Meestro stuff. Shout out Maestro. Yeah, I'm looking at us 12 inch over here for Let Your Backbone Slides.

Oh, gee, shout out Maestro. But even like that early stuff really reminds me of like Big Daddy Kane. Yes. Right? Very Big Daddy King. Yeah. But I mean, I feel like I was a part of a wave.

I was really inspired by a lot of prairie rappers, like rappers from Saskatoon and Winnipeg, actually. Can you name check any of these? Yeah. Because I love the Canadian hip-hop scene. Like, name-check some of these rappers that might have influenced you who came from these markets. Yeah, I was really influenced by this label called

Peanuts and Corn out of at a Winnipeg and his rappers like bird of prey um john smith uh pipskid mackenrow just all these guys they and they would come and play in emminton and i'd go to their shows and and i just be they're rapping about money mart right you know they're rapping about the most like canadian things you can think of and it's just like wow i didn't know you could be like that i only knew what you see on tv where i saw much music and i see like northern touch you know and it's very toronto centric maybe with a little bit of vancouver in there but this was the first stuff that really relate, I could relate to. Now, you're talking West Canada, because when I think of what you're describing,

my first thought is classified. Mm. At a St. John's there, in the Maritimes there, where he was like unabashedly, like, no, I'm from the Maritimes. I'm never leaving the Maritimes. I'm going to wrap about the Maritimes. I love that. Yeah.

No, he definitely went hard. Shout out to class as well. Absolutely. Luke's been here. But finally, we got Roli here. So can you just tell me a little bit about the influence of your father? Yeah. Okay, so Teddy, my father, Teddy Pemberton.

He was a radio DJ in Edmonton on CGSR for over 20 years. He had a show called The Black Experience and Sound. And he was the first person to play hip-hop over the airwaves in Edmonton. So he's kind of like the DJ Ron Nelson of Edmonton, Alberta. Exactly. Okay, I get it. Okay. Totally.

Yeah, so that was my dad. And when I first came on the scene, when people figured out that I was Teddy's son, It was kind of like, well, okay, this makes a lot of sense. Like, everyone I talked to in the scene, they'd be like, oh, yeah, you know what? I used to listen to Teddy Show, and that was how I found out about rap. Or, you know, it was like appointment listening every Saturday night. Okay, so you're born into the scene here, right? So no wonder you're rapping at such a young age.

Yeah, I just grew up in a library of music. My mom played piano. My uncle was a funk musician. Brett Miles. He had a group called McGillofunk Conduit. And that was who I would first perform with. I would just jump up as I was like a teenager at the sidetrack cafe in Edmonton, the Sugar Bowl.

And I'd just be rapping with this funk band. Okay. So you're, apparently you're rapping at age 13. Does that sound right to you? Yeah, totally. Okay. And this, Breaking K-Fabe, does that come out when you're still a teenager? Breaking K-Vabe came out in 2005.

So I would have been. 19. Okay, that's teenager. Yeah. Okay, that's teenager. I'm probably the last guy standing who cares about these dumb details, but how do you go from a guy just rapping as a teenager, probably, I don't know, I'm guessing you're doing like talent shows in high school or something. I'm just guessing that. I wrapped it my, I wrapped at my high school grad. See, I was almost there, almost there. Like, how do you go from that to an actual full length debut, breaking K-fabe? I was just possessed and obsessed with music and hip hop and wanting to release music. I was determined to do it.

And we didn't really have the infrastructure in Edmonton. It wasn't like Toronto. Like there wasn't a ton of rap labels or anything. There wasn't any connections to the wider Canadian music industry. There was no Farley Flex. No, no. So it was, for me, it was just the internet. I really reached a lot of success, being early adopter of the internet, having

own blog. That's how you get into track changes. Exactly. And it's like through some of those blog connections I had, Oliver Square got on this blog called Flux Blog. And then I started getting all these label offers and like it was really, you could really make, break an artist, just putting them on a blog or something, you know? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So breaking K-fabe, is that an indie release or are you with a label at that point? That was a, yeah, it was with a label, a very small label called upper class recordings that were they were based in Toronto. Okay. Now, what's next?

Like, I mean, critically acclaimed, you got, you know, breaking cave, making noise, right? What's next? Yeah, so after that, I put out my follow-up after-party babies, which was a major shift away from the sound that I had on the first record. That was a lot more electronic dance. It was one of the first albums, I think, of people where somebody wrapped over dance music. wrapped over electronic beats. I feel like I was kind of ahead of the curve on that.

2008. And right after that, I became the Poet Laureate of Edmonton. Yeah, congrats. I was reading that. You're Edmonton's Poet Laureate. This is 09, I guess. Yeah, at the time I was the youngest poet laureate ever. And, yeah, that was like a big part of my life at that time.

I just go across Canada, go all over the place, reading poems and performing and going to the Poet Laureate Conference in Halifax and just yeah that was that was my life it was it was poetry the music that was the vibe why do you eventually leave edmonton so i left edmonton um i feel like i didn't need to because of how my career was going at that time like it was going really well being based there but i decided to leave because i had a group of friends who had moved from edmonton ahead of me to Montreal yeah and i would see that them online and see what they were doing and it just seemed like they were so free to just be who they wanted to be like they were putting on face paint and they were wearing all these crazy

clothes and back in emison it's still alberta you know right it's like it might be eminent but it's still albert like i walked down the street i'm wearing like white jeans and like a truck is like yelling at me and driving like and honking and calling me slurs and stuff you know yeah it's very conservative yeah even in like eminton which is supposed to be you know probably the best place for that. Right. Yeah. So that kind of feeling.

Also, it was becoming a point where people, there was a sense of hostility for me being around. It felt like, like I'd go to the bar and somebody would just come up to me and be like, why are you here? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm just hanging out with my friends. Is that because of the color of your skin? I'm just trying to understand.

No. No, it was just like, it was just because I was popular. Oh, because you were famous. Yeah. Yeah. And people just didn't know how to like deal with it. And people would be like, what are you trying to be? be a big fish in a small pond and you know it just felt like they I didn't want it there I wasn't

wanted to be there at that time and I can I mean I've spent some time in Montreal recently and I'll be there again my daughter lives there nice I feel like there's going to be a Toronto Mike bingo card I can see how Greg will cooking it up right now one of the squares will be Mike mentions his whenever Montreal comes up I have to make it like a trigger so I could play like like I'm a jukebox but oh my daughter lives there okay but what a what a cool city like I can see the allure. Oh, it was amazing. It was the best time in my life for sure. How long were you there? Was it for six years? Okay. Best time in your life, but why are you not still there? Yeah, I mean, I moved away from there only because my girlfriend at the time got a job in Toronto.

So it wasn't really like I actively was like, oh, I want to leave. It was just circumstantially. It made sense to move. Okay, because you keep moving to bigger markets, right? Yeah, yeah. But like, the thing is, anything I ever did in my career was never about being. more successful. It just was what happened. And it just feels like things are dragging me towards commerce over time eventually. So I guess you spend some years in Montreal and then you end up in Toronto. What neighborhood in Toronto did you call home? Yeah. So when we first moved to Toronto, our first place actually we sublet a place on Dundas East and Ontario, which was like a really rude awakening to what Toronto was like.

And then from there, our first, a permanent kind of apartment was on Brock and college. Okay. Yeah, so, you know, Dundas West kind of area. I spent a lot of time there. You could have walked to Christy Pitts and caught a Leafs game. Exactly. Exactly. Yes.

Yes. All right. So you're in Toronto. Now, I want to ask you about the Polaris Prize just for a moment because it's, it's, I, I just got like the short list sent to me. They put me on some PR list. It's like, oh, here's a short list for the 2026 Polaris Prize. And I always bugged my friend Lori Cullen because she's on He Pooh's Clouds. Yeah, yeah, on Owen Pallets.

Owen Pallets. And I know this will all tie in to you, but like, when did you get nominated for your first Polaris music prize? That was my first album. Yeah, for Breaking KFabe. I was nominated for the very first ever Polaris Prize. Right. Which is a good thing and a bad thing, I think. Tell me why it would be a bad thing.

Well, you know, it was amazing for me beginning because that's really it put me on the map across Canada. And it was just a really amazing timing to have put out the album when I did. And then it just put me up with all these artists like broken social scene and Owen Pallet and put me in that stratosphere of Canadian artists, right? So that was great back then. But now I'm seen as this old guard veteran like mold. oldy-ass figure, despite the fact that I'm not even that old.

I was insanely young when I first started. But yeah, I think I've seen as the past. I'm a figure of the past. That's interesting. You're like, yeah, because when we think of broken social scene now, it's almost like with nostalgic lenses, right? Like it's like, oh, remember that indie rock scene in the early 2000s? And then you bring out a wolf parade and you bring a broken social scene.

And it's like, oh, yeah, remember that. But yeah, it's like a nostalgic lens. And those people, they were all 10 years older than me at the time. right? So people think I'm like in my 50s or something because of the kind of artist I was aligned with at that time. I see that totally. Yeah. Shout out to Jason Collette, who's in the Toronto Mike calendar, by the way, just throwing it out there. Shout out Jason, yeah. I've done his event a few times. Okay. And there's a big West End Phoenix event that we'll be promoting with Jason, but it's at the Palais Royal. And the host is Ron McLean. Essentially, my last guest on Toronto Mike was Don Cherry's son, Tim Cherry. And there's a lot of Ron McLean chatter in that episode.

Shout out Ron McLean as well. I met him too. I did a hockey night in Canada. Um, in Lethbridge, I think. Oh, this is hometown hockey.

Yeah, hometown hockey. Exactly. With Tara Sloan from Joy Drop and Ron. Yeah. They canceled that show. It was too, too beautiful for this earth.

Yeah. That was very, it was peak Canadian. Yeah. Lethbridge. Okay. It was either Lethbridge or Lloyd Minster. Can't remember.

And Lloyd, am I right? Is that the one on the border of, Saskatchewan. It is. Okay. I'm trying to learn my Western Canada.

I'm trying to learn. That's good. I'm glad you kind of, you knew that. I like that. Yeah. I just know, like,

I think, yeah, I can't remember which province is in, but it's like right on the border or something. Or maybe it's in both for all I know. But yeah.

Okay, shout out to the Western, Western Canada. I'm not, I'm trying not to be one of those Toronto guys who forgets there's more country than Toronto. That's why I got a show,

classified. He's in the Maritimes. You're coming from Alberta. You got to shout out Lethbridge and Lloyd Minster and all these great... I love it. I love that. You know, because when I first came to Toronto as somebody from Edmonton trying to make the scene, people would... I'd say, hey, I'm from Edmonton and people would be like, oh, sorry about that.

Oh, shit. Or they be like, where's that? Well, that's terrible. Come on. We all watch those Gretzky teams, okay? You know where Edmonton is, brother. Talk about the dynasty. I felt this.

I'll tell you what I feel since we're having the real talk here is I felt, I always felt like the rest of Canada hated us. So it always felt to me like, I'm happy. I liked, okay, you're from Edmonton. That's cool. Like I said, my first wife was from Saskatoon. Like, I married to women. I know. I was married 15 years.

I know. You got a prairie fetish. I have absolutely, you nailed it. I have absolutely a prairie fetish. But I always felt like the rest of Canada hated Toronto. You're correct. Yeah. So that whole, I feel like sometimes there's a defensive mechanism, Toronto will be like faking.

They know where Edmonton is. It's got an NHL team. Once you get an NHL team, we know where the fuck. you are. Yeah. Especially when you win, we haven't, we haven't been to a final since 67. We had to watch, you know, four with Gretzky and then another, another one with Mark Messier as captain after Gretzky went to L.A. Like, we know what's going on over there.

But I think that defensive mechanism is this whole like, oh, yeah, where's that? Like, oh, I'm sorry. Like, it's almost like to protect ourselves because we know you hate us. Well, okay, here's the thing about Canada and Toronto's relationship. And it's unfortunate that it's this way. it is on our side, the rest of Canada, there's a bit of an ignorance, especially the further away you are from Toronto. So people in Amundton, they assume, oh, Toronto, they think they're the center of the world. They think they're so great.

And it's like, you go to Toronto. And it's like, yes, they do actually feel like that. But it's pretty deserved because Toronto is amazing. Well, let's put it this way. You're here. Well, you're in Hamilton, but you were here. And we'll talk about your move to Hamilton later in this chat here. but I mean the fact,

I don't think it's necessarily a fact, but a lot of the Trontonians who are here were born in other parts of the country. It's rare to encounter a true. Okay, so I was born in St. Joe's in Parkdale. And once in a while, somebody would be like, where are you from?

And I'm like, I was born at St. Joe's never lived in another city. Which I think is kind of pathetic. Like I said, my oldest daughter lives in Montreal. And I think, oh, that's amazing.

Like she's, you've been around. You know, you've moved around. I think that's amazing. Why have I never left the city? That's my own problem for my own theory.

therapist. It makes sense, though. It's like people who are from Toronto, it's like, why would you leave? Yeah, where am I going? Like, Paris? Like, where am I going? Yeah, not Paris, Ontario either. Where are you going? We're in New York, right. Yeah. That's a whole different subject matter. But, okay, so what we have here is Toronto versus the rest of this country. And when you go to somewhere like Edmondian, you say you're from Toronto, the typical reaction is something like this. Oh, I'm sorry or some joke like that. It'll be like some joke. Like, oh, my condolences or something like that. Like they are sorry for you because you're a Torontoian. And then I guess if we're cracking back, like where's Edmonton?

I think that's just like some defensive mechanism because it hurts, Roli, it hurts. But it's a problem with the geography of this country. People are more likely to go fly to Berlin than they are to fly to Edmonton. And Edmonton is more expensive. It is a problem because somebody the other day was telling me about their trip to Newfoundland. And I was thinking, why have I never been in Newfoundland? And then I remembered. Oh, yeah.

Like it's so fucking expensive for me to go to Newfoundland. It's much cheaper for me to go to Paris France. Yeah, I have a, I'm playing a festival in Yellowknife next month. Okay. I'm playing folk on the rocks. And it is inaccessible. It's hard to get up there. Right?

Yeah. Okay, well, that's, but you're doing, you're doing the gig. Yeah. You're going to do the gig. Hey, do you want to quickly, before we get too deep, we're going to get to the new music. I don't mean to spend, I know, I just got you out of Edmonton, I suppose, and I do have new music we're going to talk about. But can we at least make sure the listenership knows. You're at, here's a venue I can bike to.

The Cameron House. You're there. You're performing June 23rd. I am, yeah. It's sold out. Show sold out. There you go. The Cameron House, next stop, you'll be like Nirvana the band.

You'll be at the Rivoli. Exactly. Well, we almost did it at the Rivoli. Right next to you. Yeah, but no, we ended up doing Cameron House. Do you find that you, I guess, do you watch Nirvana the band the show, or did you see the movie? I watched the show. I have not seen the movie yet.

They almost put me in the movie. That was the thing. like it's a huge regret in my life. I didn't spit. You said no or did they? It was like a scheduling thing. Like the time, like they were like, we think there's a part that you could be in. And then because I'm, I'm friends with Jared Rob and Colin Medley.

Like we've worked together a lot on like, you know, they did a couple videos for me. Okay. They did my video for my computer. And, yeah, I was like, nah, I should have did that. But I guess there was just some, it just never, it just didn't work out, which is a lot of things in, in this world. I'm thinking of the cameos because you haven't seen it yet, but you got to see it. The movie's fantastic. But like, Raws and Moka have a pretty juicy cameo in this.

And I'm kind of like, like, fuck those guys. What a great, like I would just dying off. I mean, they're already been on the air for like 20 years or whatever on 92.5, we should play more cadence weapon. What's going on over there. Yeah. But, geez, what a juicy cameo for Raws and Moka in that movie. Shout out to them. I need to see the,

I'm going to watch it soon. I'm going to watch it soon. And I wish, I think it's Courtney Heels, but somebody on CP 24 had a juicy cameo as well. But you would have been great in that. It would have been,

that would be almost as impressive as making it to track changes, the great Cam Gordon book. But I made it in there. Hey, if there's a book about Canadian music from the last 20 years, I am in the book.

I've been probably interviewed. So Michael Barclay has written about it. I'm in that book. Yeah, that's an important book too. Speaking of Broken Social Scene. Yeah. That's a great book.

Okay. now we're warmed up here. So Polaris Prize, right. So you were, how many, I know you won we're going to talk about, I'm going to play a song actually, because you did that thing with Edmonton, which I really like, where you bring us into Edmonton with Oliver Square. And I like the idea that I don't quite know these references,

but now I'm going to put in some effort to learn what is Cadence Weapon referencing in this song about Edmonton. I like that. Yeah, no. That was the thing I always used to love about listening to New York rap, listening to UK grime music and they're talking about all the London landmarks and their streets and their post codes and all this

I feel like even if I didn't know what it was about it made me want to learn more you know yeah like how many people around the world had to where is Weston Road because you know Drake rapped about it exactly exactly people did that with Oliver Square like they tell me I would look it up and you go on like a travel website or something and they'd be like yeah I went to Oliver Square

because of the Cadence Weapon song and it was just a strip mall and some guy from Russia you know like like yeah I hope I didn't hype it up more than it is you know well that's not on you man that's on them and they're you know their imagination

they built it up in their mind here so I'm how you won the Polaris Prize Ian I want to get the right date I have it here 2021 yes how many times were you nominated before you won but before I won I was nominated all my albums had been so

I've been nominated I've been shortlisted twice before that for Breaking K Fave and Hope and Dirt City And my other two albums were both long listed So I had been nominated four times before that Do you mind if I play another oldie before we get to the new stuff? Yeah for sure Yeah

Happening in a man Yeah Woke up to a bad dream Way to our spaces every one of our favorites Cityscape looking faceless Made the streets look stainless The surgery it wasn't painless

No past just traces Now where to play just playlist Walk through town it was looking Strange all I saw was weed places They want to keep us sedated They don't want civic engagement LRT stations a little Jamaican lead to match displacement

Kind of ads with white faces Who's gonna gain from changes I don't recognize the sky And I can't see the sunshine So I hold them in the skyline Read about it at a headline I don't recognize the skyline No I can't see the sunshine

No I can't see the sunshine No I can't see the sunshine The powers that be they trick us Loopholes to evict us Slum lords in effect Raising a rent, then they blame the victims The city tears down encampments My neighbors bought a place in Hamilton

Tint's right next to the mansions They acting like it isn't happening City planners never plan for us Mayor Tori doesn't ride the bus Or ride a bike or ride for us So how can he understand what we want Ford nations for the corporations But he don't care about the public

Whenever we ask for what we need They say there's a room in the budget I don't recognize the skyline And I can't see the sunshine So I'm holding the skyline Read about it in the headline I don't recognize the skyline No I can't see the sunshine

No I can't see the sunshine No, I can't see the sunshine. There's a lot of meat on that bone. Roley, I'm telling you, man. We got the Four Nation. We got the John Torrey. That's a Toronto Jam right there. Yeah, that was a Toronto Jam for sure.

I think it really resonated with people at that time. I think it was a rallying cry. And, you know, that album, Parallel World, I think I just really spoke to the moment at that time, you know, kind of early pandemic. anxiety. Well, inspired by the George Floyd protests, right? Oh, for sure. Yeah, I was very inspired by that, very inspired. Just, I moved up to Eggleton at that time. I was living with my now wife, and we were on Egglington and Caledonia. Sure. Yeah, and so I was seeing. Waiting for that cross town. Exactly. Yeah. He was just, yes. I was like, any day now. And I was just seeing all these businesses closing. And, and, especially in Little Jamaica and becoming more knowledgeable about the situation up there. And I ended up writing an article about it that really was impactful for Hazlitt. But yeah, I was really inspired just by what I was seeing on a daily basis. It was really, it felt like that was my distinct Toronto album, Parallel World.

I think it was really my most Toronto one. Like I feel like Breaking K-Faves, very Edmonton. And then Hope and Dirt City is probably my more Montreal one. And I feel like my last two are more influenced by Hamilton, I would say. Okay, we're going to get to the Hamilton. I heard that reference. We looked at each other because you're like, my best friend, my buddy just, what is it? Your best friend?

My neighbor just bought a place in Hamilton. So, okay, so before we, so Skyline is a song I just played. It's relevant today as it ever was. Yeah. Maybe more so. I do produce this show for a gentleman named Nick Aeneas who actually sponsors this show just so I could have these long-form chats of importing Canadians like you. And Nick Iini says podcast is called Building Toronto Skyline.

And this subject comes up quite a bit. I'm tired of my neighbors move into Hamilton because they can't afford to live in Toronto. We're losing all the cool people. Yeah, you definitely are. That line actually, it was a bit of a twist because before I moved in with my wife, I lived across the street from High Park. I love living over there. Oh, my gosh.

You could afford to live. I wanted to live near there. I couldn't afford. Renting. Renting. I was living on Parkside Drive. Yeah. Don't bike it.

It's dangerous. It was very, very frantic every day, right? I'm actually making, I have to do it right after this. I'm got to, well, after this,

I have a quick, another recording, but then I have to haul ass to keel and bluer to pick up a TFC jersey for my thirdborn. Nice. Like I'm on my way to, I know exactly what the neck of the woods you're talking about.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But yeah, living over there. Yeah, I've got different Toronto vibes for sure. Okay, but you left Toronto. It was that you were just, it was just got too expensive? But yeah, I was saying when I lived over there, my neighbors, I lived in like duplex

and the people next to us pandemic hit and they moved to Ottawa. They were like, we're out of here. And I was like, wow, that's really cool for you that you're able to easily just move to what for you would be like a safer place, I guess. Right? Yeah. Ottawa, I guess,

is it affordable in Ottawa? I don't know. I don't know where the pockets are anymore. I think they're originally from there. Oh, they're from. Okay, they're family.

It's a different vibe. All right. Shout out to Jonathan Sindhan who left the city for, for Ottawa. Okay. So you at some point, with I guess, you're now wife,

you guys decided to leave the big smoke here. Yeah, we wanted to raise a family. You know, we wanted more space. And I think, yeah, we were living.

a one-bedroom condo that she owned up on Eglinton. And so it was not really conducive to having a kid, which we did. We have a toddler now. Okay. That's amazing. His name's Yari, and he's our little buddy. Named after Yari Curry. No.

Spelled different. People always say that. They assume because I'm admitted. Yeah. Right? But you are kind of young for Yari Curry. Like you have to know your age. Yeah.

Like if I was going to name my kid after Euler, it would be more relevant to be like. George. Oh, I was going to say, right. I was going to say. Or Mike. Ryan Smith. Right. Or Ryan Smith, Pemberton.

Yeah, sure. That makes sense. Right. But no, it's spelled Y-A-R-I and my wife is Iranian and it's Farsi. It means friendship. Yari. Okay. Beautiful.

Yeah. He's everybody's buddy. So you're, I'm thinking of my buddy Ralph Ben-Murgi, who Toronto guy born and raised. And one day, I don't know, I guess around maybe before you actually, but one day he was the guy who basically said, this place is ridiculously expensive. We're going to raise the family in Hamilton. And he's never,

I asked him, he was over here pretty recently. I'm like, any regrets? He's like, not a single regret. He loves Hamilton. Hamilton's cool.

Tell me about Hamilton. Yeah, for sure. I think it's a really underrated place. I think it's a place that gets dumped on. It's kind of, kind of Canada's dumping ground. Is that because it's blue collar and the steel workers?

Why are we dumping on Hamilton? Yes. It's blue collar. And it's kind of, I feel like they, there's become this expectation that they will be dumped on. So people just keep dumping more stuff, right? I don't like it because I think that makes it.

I prefer the blue-collar people to the white color. But give me more blue-collar people. That's why we moved there is my wife and I, we just kind of relate to that culture. And we thought we would go there and we we were just, we love the kind of working class vibes. And that's kind of where we come from too. Do you bump into honorary mayor of Hamilton, Tom Wilson. I'm looking at him here in this junk house album here. Yeah, shout out Tom.

Yeah, I saw him. I did a vintage market at the Cotton Factory, and he came and he bought my record from me. So shout out to Tom. Can you do a Tom impression? My voice doesn't get to that depth. I would probably need like 50 more cigarettes today. That's the secret, right?

I feel like I always sometimes I'll talk to somebody with a voice like Tom. So I'm like, how do I get that? He's like, well, you've got to start drinking and smoking at 12 years old. It's too late now. Too late now. But wow, Tom Wilson's a good guy. I fell and this is like a somebody posted it. There's a WhatsApp group for FOTMs and somebody said, hey, Reddit's having a chat.

This is a Reddit chat about Canadian musicians you've met. Were they cool or were they assholes? This was quite, and this was naturally because a lot of Canadian musicians have been over. So I'm like, oh, I need to dive in. And I just started feasting. So certain names. kept popping up on the positive side. One being Biff Naked.

Oh, okay. Like everybody, and I know her quite well. She's been over here many times. She, I would say absolutely a sweeter. I'll bump into her at the park of her little dog, and she'll just treat me like I'm her, I don't know, her cousin or her brother or something. Nice.

So, Biff naked, all positive. Tom Wilson was pretty positive. But FOTM, Chantelle Craveajek and her husband, Rain Maida, did not do so well in this Reddit group. So I don't know. Maybe I had any Chantel experiences. No, no, I don't actually.

Yeah, I was wondering if they were going to have all negative about Matthew Good. Well, Matt had some good and bad there, but he had some addiction issues, right? Yeah, of course, yeah. But he was a guy where he had a lot of bad, stuck to him a lot of good. Of course, the worst one, he's in jail right now is head leave frontman, Jacob Hogard. Yeah. So he's a whole separate category. That's a different level.

Right. But mostly, I guess I'm happy to hear this, but I'll defend Shantel in a moment. But I was happy to see almost overwhelmingly the Canadian musicians that were encountered, be it the Sloan guys, you know, or Sam Roberts from Montreal, or you name it. It seemed very positive. But I think if you're a Canadian artist who stayed in Canada, you better have some humility to you, right? Like I feel like, if you're an asshole, I think who are you to be an asshole? Well, Canada is small, man.

It's a, it's a big village. And I think you're going to see people. You know, you're going to be around the people. And I think in my career, I have become much more mature in recent years. Oh, right? Like, were you an asshole at one point or borderline? I think rather than an asshole, I think I was just kind of psychotic or something. Like, I was just like very strange.

saying like weird shit to people are being like drunk drinking like actually is it from drinking yeah I would say or just kind of like should I have not given you the great late to beer well I don't drink okay but you get I don't drink but I'm gonna pass that on I'm gonna give them to my my brother-in-law okay good but uh you know it was like it's really

um what's the word it's like when I first came on the scene and I was like blowing up off my first album I thought I was just fuck God you know what I'm saying and it was and I was a teenager major playing Glassonbury or whatever, right? Right. That's huge.

I definitely was up my own ass for like the early part of my career. You know, Public Enemy famously said don't believe the hype. Were you believe in the hype? Oh yeah. I was like smelling my own farts for sure for the first like beginning of my career. And shout out to Chuck D. Yeah. That is a guy who's a really nice guy.

And I opened for a public enemy in Dublin, Ireland in like 2008. And he was super nice to me. And we took picks and he gave me an autograph. He gave me his email and he was giving me all this advice about performing and stuff. Like it was, it's, and that made me be like, I want to be like that for other artists for like the rest of my life. I'm glad. So before I defend Chantelle Craviashic, okay, because I had a 90 minute experience and I can speak to that in a moment.

I wanted to, that's where I was going. I'm going to get back there. But Chuck D for a moment. So a couple things. One is when I saw, when I saw Public Enemy, who I've loved since it takes a nation of millions to hold us back. Love one of my favorite bands of all time. when I saw them,

what are they, what was, it doesn't matter what it was called, but it was called Rebel, but they had a different name. It'll come to me later. This is in the Portland's in the East End here, okay,

by the water. Cool House. No, it wasn't closed. That's now condos. Okay. But that was the government, an RPM in Cool House.

That was a different building. This is near the docks. And it's now called Rebel. But it had a different name, but that's going to drive me nuts now for the rest of our chat here. But okay, so Chuck D,

I saw Public Enemy there, and a real public enemy, real public enemy. Public enemy has flavor flavor. Because public enemy radio, I would see subsequently, which is public enemy minus flavor. But anyway, he's got border issues. Okay.

So what I want to say is that Chuck took time out of, you know, he's doing his, it was fantastic, amazing. One of the greatest live experiences I've ever had at a concert. And he pulls Maestro Fresh West on stage to drop some bars and to give some love to Maestro. And then he does it to a woman I love who's been over many times, Mishimi. I love the idea that he knows the Canadian godmother and godfather of hip hop in this country

and he gives them the spotlight on the stage while he's performing it. I just loved it. I thought it was amazing. Shout out to her. She's on a stamp. She's on a stamp. Yes, yes. And Chuck said most of my heroes don't appear in those stamps. And now, yes, absolutely. Mishimi is on a stamp. Maestro's on a stamp. But also, at some point, I had the, back when I was on Twitter, I somehow got into Chuck D's DMs and somehow negotiated where he could come on Toronto Mike. And Chuck gave me time and answered my questions about DJ Ron Nelson and KLN and the Fantastic Voyage and the early hip-hop tours he would do in Ontario. So that tells you what kind of guy we're dealing with.

Like how many people at that level would say, yeah, I'll come on your podcast, a independent Southern Etobico podcaster guy. Yeah. That's amazing. That's the Chuckster, man. Yeah. Yeah. So I love hearing the Chuck love because he's amazing.

But Chantel real quick and then back to you in Hamilton, okay? Because I do at some point actually want to ask you about an AI data center. Do you say data or data? Data. Okay. Am I wrong to say data? I never know what to say. Tomato.

Pasta pasta. It's all good. So, Chantel, I was reading, it's overwhelming if you find this Reddit thread with all the Canadian artists and the assholes and the guy. Oh, Chad Kroger got a lot of hate. So I think he might have had a bit of what you had that swagger. Yeah, I mean, he's also from small town Alberta. Yeah, Hannah.

People just be like that. But also his ex, Avril Levine, got a lot of love in this group. Like Alvril, apparently sweetheart to everybody. But I mean, also you got to wonder what is being nice mean. It's like, okay, they signed the autograph. They talked to you for a second. They were like not. They didn't, they didn't not sign the autograph.

So how many of these were, okay, the person was having like a terrible day. Right. And they just were like, I think it's completely unfair. I can't do this today or whatever. Everyone has bad moments. Maybe you're distracted by something going on your life that you're, you know, you don't have time to have a, you know, a lengthy chat with this listener. And that doesn't make you an asshole.

I would say today I'm probably like the nicest person in Canadian. Well, you drove from Hamilton to talk to me. Yeah. That tells me you're good guy. Yeah. You and Ralph Ben Mergi and Tomlowe. I'm Mr. Nice guy these days.

I'm Mr. nice guy. Okay. All right. So no more Mr. Nice guy. That was Alice Cooper. Okay.

Bob Ezra now lives in Toronto. And Bob Ezra needs to come on Toronto, Mike. I'm just throwing that into the universe. Okay, Bob Ezra. Okay. Chantelle, when she was here in the basement, her and she looked at me, first thing she did was,

she looked at me and she said something to the effect of, I just did a podcast and I demanded a bunch of edits. You're going to be ready to edit this or something to this effect. Like she was telling me I'm going to be editing my show. I'll just tell you. I don't edit my show. That's part of the deal here. I just looked at Chantelle.

So off the top, I could see her rubbing people the wrong way because she was kind of telling you, which I think is not necessarily a bad thing, but she's setting expectations, and she's telling you what she wants, that if she might request edits. And I just looked at her,

not my first rodeo over here, this episode 19, what is it, 1917 or something like that. I just said, there will be no edits. I don't edit this show. Just know whatever you say into my microphones, will be in public. So if you don't want to say it, don't say it.

Like, you self-edit in real time. I noticed you didn't tell me that. I don't say to anyone else, but she had that opening salvo. If you did an opening salvo, I would have said it to you here. And then at that moment, she kind of looked at me and she said,

oh, okay. And then we sat down and chatted. And I had the most wonderful 60 to 90 minutes with her. And afterwards, a what do you call a postal employee was being harassed by somebody in a road rage incident. and this woman was crying as this guy was yelling at her at the top of my street.

And I saw this. We were going to take a photo. And Chantel sprinted to this woman to protect her and defend her. Wow. Like Donovan Bailey style. Wow. Shout out to my friend Donovan. I just recorded with him.

That's amazing. So I'm just here to say that in my experience of Chantel was quite the opposite. Like I quite liked her. She was like, but she came on strong. And I think if you don't, like, I think that could be misinterpreted by people. Totally. Because I think she is very particular. She said, like, this is what I want, and she's not afraid to tell you.

And some people think you're being an asshole. But my experience was once we got that sorted very quickly where I said, oh, I'm not going to edit a stitch. Don't say anything in that microphone you don't want in public. She was delightful. Yeah, you know what? It's interesting when you get, this is happening to me a lot, getting called difficult. I'm, certain artists are difficult. We're artists.

We're very particular about what we want for everything, right? Right. And it's also difficult means you just asked for something. Right. That's literally it. Right. It's like, okay, it's like, hey, can I please have this? Or can I have like a mirror in the green room?

And I're like, he's difficult. Right. He asked for something. I think you're 100% right. And I think it hits differently to some people when a woman dares tell you what they want. Oh, of course. You know what I mean? So there's misogyny at play as well.

Yeah. No, definitely. And that made me think also artists, we're very, um, wary of the press and being misinterpreted. And this is something that happens often. I'll tell you something that just happened to me. Tell me. I did an interview around my book.

I find this very ironic because when the, I should, I had a bad feeling about it. I had a bad feeling about it because. Is it a mainstream interview? It was a mainstream publication. I'm not going to say the publication. But they, because there were all these follow up questions and other things.

It seemed like they were trying to get me to diss Drake. And they were trying to get me to say more and more negative things. And I was not, I didn't agree with what their stance was at the time, right? And then so the thing comes back. And many of my responses are, I didn't say them at all. They're actually words that I didn't say in the interview at all. And to me, it was like they got AI to transcribe the interview. and it added some little things or it like kind of made what I said a little spicier or more like interesting or something.

But it's like I knew exactly what I said. Yes. That's wrong, brother. Which is not journalism, right? Right. There was one thing in there. Like it was from the follow up question where they asked something my opinion about Iceman about Drake. And I said like a short thing in the text.

In journalism, you're just supposed to take that thing and that's the quote. Right. They made up a whole other sentence. whole other paragraph and then saying like it's like yeah i wasn't feeling that man it's like i don't talk like that i didn't say that they you know you're not outing this publication but you really should shine a light and out this publication that's just wrong you were done dirty we we talked to them they they they know they know they were wrong and it's like that's why i record everything and now that's why a lot of artists do that we we bring the recorder and from now on i i kind of do that right

Right. It's funny. Just the whole recording thing is that I just had, Tim Cherry was here Friday. It's the son of Don Cherry. And we were talking about this Gere Joy's article, which suggested that Don had this health scare in 2019 and then needed an exit strategy. And that falling on his sword over Poppy Gate was kind of part of this deal.

And, you know, I had, because Gere Joy sent me the recording of the phone call of Ron McLean. So I played. Like I can see Tim's face. It's like, oh, like, this is what Ron said to Gare. I have the actual recording. So those recordings are golden, right? We're going to get back to AI.

I actually now have to play new music by Cadence Weapon, okay? I've made you wait long enough. I want to hear the new stuff. So shout out to Milan again, who basically says Forger is your best album to date. Oh, thank you. I agree. You're going to get another Polaris prize from this or what?

No, they didn't nominate me. Oh, that's right. I got the P. I got that PR thing the day. I'm not on the list. My last two albums, no nomination. Ironically, I feel like I'm better than ever musically. I've never made better.

My rap's never been better. But, I mean, also, you know, this stuff you can't control. Are you even north of 40 yet? I'm 40. Okay, you're on the nose. I was going to say, I just turned 40 this year. You just turned 40. Okay.

Yeah. All right. Well, let's, I got a few loaded up, but I like the fact this guy's got Toronto in the title. Let's listen. Yeah. Yeah. On the truth, undisputed in the booth. But loops at me made my suit.

War. No truce what you want to do Talking big on what you do You ain't got no proof When I ball ain't no hoops I'm a two I might shoot Citrus fruit when I juice

Yeah I might act a fool Toronto Zoo And I binigrate Yeah Do not denigrate I just made a play Just bought me some real estate Yeah

And my fan can't star I need something on their dinner play Yeah I might navigate away Then go renovate I'm on center stage Yeah And I'm really paid

I don't pay no rent Nick what the fuck you think I'm on Michel Tour And seen the bill don't even blink Trippy as a bitch And I don't even drink Everfact Toxic buddy likes to call himself

An impad Yeah he's big trends Green flag her I need a recap She is super duper nice But she's bad Shout out to my therapy Because she saved my life Knew some folks that wasn't right

And they paid the price My relate to folks I know who ain't at any strike Feel I car me when I cook Keep my shit precise One man army with the hooks I strike with the mic I'm that folks sell so much

Might need a punch card Both so hard My bank called they thought the shit It's tough to fade it down actually Because it's so compelling And love your lyrics Thank you Love the flow, love it

Yeah So tell me about Toronto Zoo Yeah, Toronto Zoo. This was the first song we made for this album, Juni and I. And it just came together very organically, very naturally. Like, we just got in the studio. It was at It's Okay Studios, which is an art space, which is downtown Toronto, and in the basement. And I wanted to work with him for a while. He had an amazing album called Studio Monk. That was Polaris nominated, shortlisted. and I knew that after my last record roller coaster,

which was very electronic, I wanted to do something more organic, and I thought he was the perfect person to work with. And this was the first thing we came up with, you know, just get like the first day, like within an hour of like hanging out for the first time. And I knew I just wanted to do a whole record with him. So Milan in his opening remarks, he says all live instruments, no samples.

Is that correct? That's true. Yeah. So all live instrumentation. and all the musicians, they're actually mainly Jesse Reyes' band. You know, I just saw her. Yeah. I'm wearing a jersey for Japan.

I don't have any ties to Japan, but when I went to this Adidas event last week, which was pretty cool, like it was for people to watch soccer games and stuff, but they had a shop for jerseys. They gave me, like randomly, they picked a team in the World Cup, and randomly I ended up with, like, with Japan. And I love this jersey, and it's funny, I was rooting for them yesterday because I own the jersey.

Yeah, yeah. It's a really cool jersey, too. I love it. No, I love it too. And it's like $190.90 bucks. I'm never going to buy a $190 jersey, I don't think. But they gave it to me and I'm wearing it. I love it.

But we had a surprise performance like for these, I was with these influencers. I hate to use that term. But I'm there and Jesse Reyes played for us. And she was amazing. Yeah, she's amazing. She's amazing. And a big shout out to her for letting me use her band when she's not using them.

Imagine she said no. Yeah, well, there's... And she'll end up on that Reddit thread. She'll be on the, she'll be in the bad, naughty list or whatever. But yeah, I'm actually about to go... Her and Shantel and Rain Mata. Yeah, exactly. And Matt Good.

I'm about to go, uh, rehearse with them for the Cameron House show. That's, yeah, the June 23rd Cameron House show, which is sold out. Yeah. So, uh, when, like, when, do you have anything in the books for Toronto beyond the Cameron House? Um, June 23rd? No. So, so... I'm shutting out the sold out event, but...

No, it's a vibe, you know? I mean, if people, when, when, you know, when, when, when, if there is another thing that happens you just got to be on my socials to know. Well, yeah, absolutely. So, you know what? I realize I'm going to need a couple more hours of you.

I'm going to have a lot to see here. So Forager, can I, you know what? I'm going to just kick out another one and then get into my question. Just again, random. Just like I was given the Japan jersey, which I quite like randomly here.

This made me feel like fellow right now. You know what it is? Big Cadence. Junior Tee. No one in the studio right now Let's go I'm at your estate draped In Swiss Alpin flash

Might hit you over the net Like I was Alcoran Might see me in Harlem Just like I'm dapper Dan Calculating moves I also benefit from happenstance Adirondack chairs in the front In the back

Olive grabbed pants But you'll probably never get an olive branch Try to lump me in with them But I'm not part of that Articles in my archive Look like artifacts Rapping over heavy synth tracks Yeah I started that

Label gave me carte plunge I just turn my card black Try to pull my car Get your card snatched Indy rock a riff with me Get your guitar smashed Collaborate with you Yokish Outmet

Hard Pass Try to spar with the star Get your arm's bash Croninbergrasch Known from Canadian Astrat classics Yeah I got a bunch in my bag

Charmed and dangerous My movement spark pages Like it's art and language Music books and paintings All my work sustained Hydraja coming out the pavement One man gang of four A Gallatin

in my arrangement. Hard hat at the factory like Alan Erasmus every time that I speak a passage. They present a challenge. Like Nick Nurse when you hack his talent. Back to basics when I stack the patties. Glowing all night, Jackalan. Frequently flyer, I should go and pack my baggage. Just went to Hamburg and then back to Hamilton. I'm the worst fear of the establishment. Smart black man, plus I'm talented. Am I victory unanimous? No contaminants or additives. All natural. I'm a natural, Actual, factual. When it comes to cap and you're the captain of the capital. I can totally hear why you'd be influenced by Chuck D.

Because what I liked about public enemy and I still like about public enemy is he was saying something. Yeah. You know, there was knowledge in these words. He was, you know, rhyming into the microphone. And when I listen to your stuff, you're saying something. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's my role as the artist, you know, as an MC. You know, we got to move the crowd.

but we also speak truth to power. Yeah, so it's funny, I loaded up another song, but I don't know what your timelines are like. I'm vibing, man. You sure? You can I'm vibing, it's so good. One more here, okay, one more. Here's a vibe.

When I step out, looking so fresh, so clean. So fresh, so clean. When I step out, looking so fresh, so clean. So fresh, so clean. When I step out, looking so fresh, so clean. So fresh, so clean. When I step out, looking so fresh, so clean. So fresh, so clean.

Known for my fashion. Got more jackets than New York a sassion. Go ahead and ask me. I don't gate keep securing what I'm stashing. Sliding on a beat like ass me. Dressed like an extra for madman. Sound like a street fashion blog. You keep asking where I got my bag at.

Came with a zipper on the boots. So sick, make a hype be salute. Got old school sweat. Got new. Came to this dude dressed like I got an interview. Hunting for the gone success. I blacked out like. I'm going to pour ease of essence.

Like these, you might invest in a vest. When I step out, looking so fresh, so clean. So fresh, so clean. When I step out, looking so fresh, so clean. So Forager, now available, produced by Junior T. Jeez, you think it's your best album to date. Melana agrees with you. Love what I hear.

I feel like it's just a matter of getting people to hear the music these days. I think that's the big difference between when I first came on the scene. you could just do something freaky and weird and get attention for it. And you could just do your own thing with the blogs. But now it's with all the algorithms and just trying to break through the noise, you've got to do all these, jump through all these hoops to really get people to even hear a record. Will any radio station in this country play new music from Cadence Weapon? CBC.

Probably. They play me. They do. I'm thinking of that opening line though Shad has it. Radio. Suckers never play me. On the mix. They just okay me.

The Nation Millings to hold us back. Yeah. That album and Fear of Black Planet were on my Walkman for, I think, because I got a good decade on you, my friend. And it was stuck in my Walkman for a whole school year once, just those two cassettes.

I had the CD Walkman. I had the Panasonic Chalkwave. Did it skip? I never went to this. That's interesting to have this chat. because I stayed with the Walkman until I switched to MP3s. It did skip. Like the CD. Yeah.

The CD Walkman did skip. It's just, I never, it never, so I went, I rocked the Walkman until approximately, I don't hold me to this, but like 2002, 2002, 2003. I bought a Rio. Like, no. Oh, Diamond Rio. Right. And I ripped my CDs to MP3s. Like, this was a huge project.

I had hundreds and hundreds of CDs and I ripped them all to MP3s. And then I rocked the MP3s. player, but I was a Walkman guy until then, not the CD Walkman either. No, I had the original iPod, and that was like my dream device when that dropped. Do you still have it? Somewhere. I got to find it.

Because you can get so many songs on your phone, nobody wants to carry around the two devices. No, I really need to look in my archives, because nowadays what you can do is you can get them refurbished and put a new hard drive in them. That's way bigger. Right. Right.

You know, how many terabytes of music do you need? this is this is amazing so okay so no other than cbc you're not going to get spins from like flow for example no no flow 98.7 is it formerly g98.7 yeah no it's just um i mean i don't i don't pay for radio promotions currently but is there a pay to play uh well it's just a matter about like you know there are these uh companies you can get where they they communicate with all these stations and they like they plug your stuff and they they they get it played you know and it's like I'm I don't want to be dropping a bunch of cash to get my music heard maybe by not even the right people you know it's like at this point I'm this sounds like the mafia is going to protect you oh

you need to pay us protection money of course what a nice store it would be terrible if something happened to it but I mean that's like so many things being a musician is just like okay like you got to pay for um the PR you got to pay for Facebook ads You got to pay for all this stuff. But it's like, I've had the best success from just being really good with my fans. It's a point where you got Milan. Yeah. He's like, that's not your burner account, is it?

It's not me. No, I know exactly who that is, actually, because I met him recently. Okay, greetings from Steeltown. I liked his opening salvo there. And then I said, oh, Cadens weapon is in Hamilton now. Shout out to him. And that day I got the email. I reached out.

So here you are today. I was just like, would you come over to my South Atobico address? Glad you're here. I know where I want to go from here, but I'm going to tell people to, like, how do you want people to consume your latest art forager? Like,

do you want them to stream it? Would you rather they go buy it? Like, what is your preference? It doesn't matter to me. I just want people to hear it. And whatever way is most comfortable for them, I think if you want to hear it as close to as it was,

intended, probably a record. You know, and it's like, it's on vinyl. Like I'm, I, and I sell records and, you know, they're actually almost sold out, which is nice. What's your website where people can go to not only find out about future concerts, but also maybe buy some vinyl? Oh, for sure. Yeah, you pull up cadenceweapon.net. My substack is a good place for that, cadenceweapon.com. Substack.com.

And bandcamp is mainly where I'll sell records. Perfect segue here. So I'm going to quote you. And you tell me if I got AI involved to fuck up this quote, okay? Which I don't even use AI for anything. So if I did that, then I just fucked up the old-fashioned way. Human fuck up. But okay.

I was asked come on the news to discuss the Hamilton AI Data Center protest in the denial of slate severance application. Many of you know that I live near the Stelco lands with my family. And that is partly why I'm so passionate about this issue. But what inspired me to do research and write about AI data centers in my book, Ways of Listening in the first place, was my background as a musician. I got to talk about AI's impact on myself and other members of the artistic community in Canada on television. Mark Carney's AI plan has left artists out in the cold. I hope he tuned in and got to hear how we feel about it.

And then there's the hashtag Hamilton, Ontario, Hammond. Please elaborate. Great. What's going on with, because I'm reading now a lot about these AI data centers and tell me about your concerns. Yeah. So I did research on AI data centers because I wrote a whole essay about AI in my new book. Ways of listening. Ways of listening. And they are really disruptive places on this planet Earth today. These are the places where the servers and everything that generate AI that you see online or whatever. So if you make a meme with AI, it is actually using high amounts of electricity, very high amounts of, and it's not very small. It's like an unbelievable amount.

Like in my research, they say that AI data centers by the year 2027, they will use as much electricity. that if they were considered a country, they would be number four. They would be between Japan and Russia. Not only, because I just recently, to corroborate what you're saying, I just recently heard on CBC's Metro Morning here, I heard a conversation in this very subject,

but not only is it a resource hog when it comes to electricity, but because of the heat that's generated from these data centers, the amount of water requires, So what you're telling me is for that piece of AI slop that I fucking hate. Yes. The world addicted to the AI slop is these data centers require an immense amount of electricity and an immense amount of water.

Like an unbelievable amount of water. They're saying by 2027, they think data centers will use as much water as equal to half of the UK in one year. year. I'd like to get off this world and choose an alternative timeline. I can't believe that's where we're at in 2020. I have an episode in the calendar with Jeremy Hopkins, and we're going to, because there's different, AI does a couple of things.

There's the one thing it does where it might help with coding or it might help with analysis and crunching the numbers and stuff like that. I just had David Ryder from the Toronto Star over. And they actually, for the first time, used AI for an investigative feature. So he came over to answer all my questions. Uh-oh. Yeah, it's a slippery slope. It's scary because, you know, I've seen, there's a whole thing in the New York Times, right, where they used some, they did research using the AI and it came with the fake Pierre Palliverr quote.

Polyev, yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's the hallucinations. And we had a topic because there's still hallucinations in there. And can you trust this, you know. But so far, the star, no AI has never been used in writing the words that have been published. published in the Toronto Star, but, you know, that's so far.

For now. You're right. It's a slippery cell. We had a real honest chat about it. But Jeremy Hopkins is going to go off on the other side of the AI, which is the AI slop, the images, the videos. That shit bugs me, man. So unnecessary and so bad for the environment in our planet Earth. Right. And so I'm really fighting against an AI data center in Hamilton.

It's down the street from my house. It's like a five-minute drive from where I live with my toddler and my wife. and I've done so much research I know what happens when they build these things in communities. They are bad for the health of the community pollution-wise, using the power grid a lot, using the water a lot.

But also, there's this thing about the fans. They run 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And they emit a noise, this low-level hum that you hear all the time. It's like the stormtroopers are flying, in 24 hours a day. Yes. I've heard of this, this hum you're describing this that they emit and that can affect some people more severely than others. Yeah, well, you can have insomnia. You get migraines. People have been just reporting all these issues, you know, and with the backup

turbines that they use, they're often gas or diesel powered and it's just really bad for the environment and it's giving people asthma and stuff. Like, it's just, and this is all done without public consultation, this particular one that's coming in Hamilton, they haven't talked to anybody. So tomorrow, Tuesday, June 16th, City Hall, the planning committee, their meeting about a motion that was just raised by a counselor Nan about creating a framework around the building of AI data centers in Hamilton. And if it's passed and if city council agrees to it, there will be a one-year moratorium on building these AI data centers in Hamilton.

Kudos to you for speaking up. No, for sure. I mean, I feel like I have a platform. I have an audience. I feel like this is the kind of thing that we should be doing more of as artists. I feel like, this is just who I am. I just woke up and I was just like,

I saw people kind of talking about it. And I started, and I was like, well, actually, I actually know a lot about this already from writing my book. Right. So let me use some of that information, use my skills of communication. and it worked really well. I mean, and it got to the point where I ended up going on Rosemary Barton, you know, going on CBC.

That's a big show. Right. And then. National program. The clip that I posted from that on my Instagram has gone viral. It's like, you know, 70,000 people have seen it so far or something, right? Now in that, and that's from your, the piece I quoted from you, that's from your substack, right? It was in my, it was the Instagram post.

It was from that post. Right. Okay. Yeah. Because you refer to the, the reset, the AI, strategy that Mark Carney has recently published and you wrote Mark Carney's AI plan has left artists out in the cold. Can you elaborate? Yeah. So I very carefully read Mark Carney's AI for all plan and in it I did not see anything about protecting artists intellectual property.

I didn't see anything about you know because the nature of AI it is it scrapes data from all sources from music, from the visual artist's a style of drawing and painting. It scrapes that. And we don't get any compensation for that. And there needs to be safeguards put in place, especially if the government is wanting to have 60% of businesses by 2035 on AI using AI. I mean, we can't do that until we're protected. You know, that's a key point you're bringing up, which is AI needs to source. Everything AI knows, it's sourced from something available, right? So you're talking about the scraping and stuff.

What really is really, I mean, there's so many issues here. Like, just like, like Bonvillian types of, you know, next movie, James Bond movie or something. But like, you mentioned your blog. Well, I had, I started Toronto Mike.com, the blog in 2002. And forever, you know, people would Google something, okay? and I will have written about it. Human Mike here would have written about it

and then that'll be served up as a top result in Google. What I wrote about it and people would click that and they would end up on Torontomike.com to read it. They might want to read more. They'll subscribe. Maybe they'll subscribe to the podcast. They're on my digital property now,

which was the goal of now. Now you're in my digital realm or whatever. But now, I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but now the top results will be some Gemini, AI that is serving up the info that was cold. It was curated from my blog. I wrote those words.

AI Gemini, this Google tool has basically scraped what I said and served it up. But there's no longer click through to TorontoMike.com. It's just, oh,

this is the information we pulled from tronomike.com about why that radio person is no longer on the air or what happened with CFNY and David Mars. And you name it, right? Like so they basically,

we're just there now for free to give all this data, this work we put into it. And we don't even get that benefit of having them end up on our digital real estate. No, exactly. And not only that, it's totally bullshit. And not only that, it's making a conclusion based on what you wrote that might not be the correct one. Oh my God. Yeah. The hallucinations I see and I'm like, okay, well, that's not true.

You know, yeah, because it's a nightmare. And the whole environmental cost, and you mentioned the health for the health for the citizens who live near these data centers. I'm glad you're protesting. I don't even know how to put this genie back in the bottle. When it first started showing up, I said, well,

I'm just not going to touch that. I don't want anything to do with that. Like, I enjoy writing my own prose. Am I the last guy who likes to, like, think and then write? It's a,

it's a, we're the last, the Mohicans. It's actually, honestly, so much AI slop on substack. Like, half the stuff I,

I come across. I'm like, this is obviously, written by AI. Right. It's just pathetic. You see the M-dashes and it's like, it's not this. It's actually that. You know, that's when you immediately know it's AI. More noise to cut through, which is already a challenge when it was humans cooking it up. Exactly. Okay, man. Wow. Okay. So I'm going to just shout out two more partners here because here there's no AI involved in this. Okay. We're going to talk about this of Jeremy Hopkins coming up, so

stay tuned. But I do want to thank Recycle MyElectronics.ca because Roley, if you have old devices, maybe the old iPod is broken and all these cables, you don't throw that in the garbage because those chemicals

end up in our landfill, but you can go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Put in your postal code in Hamilton, and it'll be like, here's a place you can drop that off to be properly recycled. So much love to recyclemyelectronics.ca. And last but not least, of course, Ridley Funeral Home have a podcast this week.

It's called Life's Undertaking, the Ridley Funeral Home podcast. And the special guest, Brad Jones, is going to speak with Heather Rankin. There's an East Coast name for you, Rankin, the Rankin family. So Heather Rankin is on Life's Undertaking, and they're going to talk about wakes and kitchen parties

and these maritime traditions. It's back to the Maritimes. I think that was a classified song. Welcome to the mayor at times So thank you to Ridley funeral home They sent over a measuring tape for you Oh, that's amazing

You might need to measure something here Well you know My whole last album is all about fashion and thrifting And one of the things I always keep on me Is a measuring tape Wow Because they don't let you try things on anymore Right

That's amazing So I never do this okay You got your measuring tape But you know what I'm giving you a second one Which is a measuring tape but it's also a flashlight and a level. Oh my gosh.

And a bottle opener. That's super useful. So I just want the world to know. Caden's weapon has a second more advanced measuring tape from Ridley Funeral Home. Turn up. Thank you, Ridley Funeral Home. Yeah. So on our way out here, we've alluded to it a bunch of times,

particularly when it comes to this AI data center, data center, whatever. Ways of Listening. Can you tell us a little bit about your book, Ways of Listening? Yeah, for sure. Ways of Listening, it is a book that is something I wrote for the younger generation who maybe sees music as just this backing for content creation and not this spiritual experience that I really believe it to be. And, you know, I grew up. I worked at West Edmonton Mall, HMV. I was, you know, working in the dance room. And we used to go to the listening station and, you know, open up the CD and you sit there and you sit there and you. just listen to the album. Yes.

And I kind of want to bring back that more intentional way of listening. And that's what the book is really about. Okay, so I haven't read it yet. Okay, so I want to read ways of listening. And I, so when I say this, you'll be like, oh, it's in the book. You can say that because I haven't read the book yet. But I feel like because people now are so used to, they think of the song, they ask their streaming service for it, and suddenly it's there where you, you know, I got 10 years

on you, but you remember when we had to purposefully go seek out the CD. Like this is, to me, it's like, and then we had to take the money you earned work, I don't know, maybe you got an employee discount. Was there an employee discount? I had the employee discount. What was that discount? I think it was like 50%. That's not bad. I was going

crazy. I spent my whole check on albums. And you valued the music because you spent, you had to work for it. Like that's gone now. People think they, I don't know what it is anymore, but 15 bucks a month and I have access to every song recorded in the history of the world. That's in the book. Yeah. It's in the book. Nick Kiprios, it's in the book.

Okay, you are firing me up. I feel like at some point we got to get you back for a, like a sequel. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. But you, Arnold Schwarzenegger? What's going on? I'll be back. And, uh, but next time you got to pull up with the, um, do they have like a non-alcoholic options? I'll tell you what I'll do. I have in my fridge upstairs. I'm like, what's that thing called that keeps things cool? Oh, it's called a fridge. Okay, shout out to William Perry.

I have in my fridge upstairs. It's called hop pop. Hop pop. Don't pop the peas on hop pop. It is a, it's no alcohol. So I'll start there. No alcohol,

but it's delicious and refreshing, and they sell it at Great Lakes Brewery. And I'm going to swap out a couple of these brew skis for the hop. So you can give a couple. I can remember who's getting it. Your brother-in-law? Yeah, my brother-in-law. Okay, so a couple can go to the brother-in-law,

and the rest can stay with you. And I'm going to do that for you, man. And I know you're not going right back to Hamilton, right? No. Are you able to share where are you going? I'm going up on Geary. You know, I'm going to be rehearsing with my band for my show at Cameron House. We talked before I press record about how cool Geary is.

Like that's where the artists are. That's like a, you know, you still got Kensington markets still pretty cool. You have pockets that are still cool in the city. And that's one of them, Geary. Like long may Geary run. Yeah. We protect Geary. Protect Geary at all costs.

And of course, when I think of Dufferin and Geary, I can throw a rock and hit the Galleria mall. So shout out to the grocery clerks I used to work with at Food City, man. Food City is now a fresh co. It turned into a price chopper, then it became a fresh co. But most of that gallery of mall is now a big condo tower. So we should write a song about that.

Big shout out to Standard Time on Geary. Okay. More shoutouts. Okay, and shout out again to Chuck D. Just the patron saint of hip hop as far as I'm concerned. My OG. Love it. Okay, love it so much.

Thanks for doing this, man. Was it worth the drive? You had to come to town anyway, though. No, this is great, man. This is great. Thank you for having me. I'll come back for sure. Amazing.

And TMLX22, everybody. It is June 25th from 6 to 9 p.m. No ticket required. Everybody's invited because Palmapasta will feed everybody. By the way, I didn't tell you during the recording. Rowley that I typically have a large lasagna in my freezer. But the woman who sends them over, because I only can fit four in my freezer at a time,

she was on vacation and I didn't know it. And then I was in a frantic, in the weekend, I'm like, I go to the owner of Palm Apasa, I'm in a champ. And they said, okay, they told me they're going to have it delivered by 12.15 p.m. today for you to bring home with you. And I'm just letting you know, because it's now 1230.

I might have a frozen lasagna. on my porch right now, which is going to you. I might have it, but if it's not there, I might have to bike it to Hamilton. Yeah, pull up. I'd do that. I've done that ride before. And that brings us to the end of our 1,917th show.

Go to tronomike.com for all your Toronto mic needs. And much love to all who made this possible. Again, that is Great Lakes Brewery. I got some hop-pop for Cadence Weapon, finally in FOTM. Palmapasta. They're feeding us at TMLX-22, but I think I have a lasagna. Don't hold me to it.

I think I do, though. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, you've got your history book. Nick Iienes, we're recording on Friday morning, a fresh episode of Building Toronto Skyline. Recyclemyeletronics.ca. And of course, Ridley Funeral Home.

Don't miss Heather Rankin on Life's Undertaking. See you all. Okay, so my son graduates from York tomorrow, a big convocation. That's exciting. Wow. Two of my kids graduated university within the last six weeks. I'm just here to...

Hey, congratulations. These are humble breaks. I'm very proud of these kids. Thank you very much here. Subdivisions. Okay, so I'm checking my calendar now to see what's going on. Oh, Karen Hines, who is on the newsroom. I'll drop that episode tomorrow, even though I'm going to record it at 2 p.m. today.

And then we have Caitlin McGrath, who writes about baseball, and she's a sports media personality. She's going to be making her Toronto mic debut. on Thursday. So don't miss that. See you all soon.