Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Carole Pope: Toronto Mike'd #823

Episode Date: March 24, 2021

Mike chats with Carole Pope about Rough Trade, High School Confidential, the 1980 Juno Awards, Tears Are Not Enough, Dusty Springfield, her latest single with Church of Trees and more.

Welcome to episode 823 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. Contact Barb, she's Barb, at cdntechnologies.com

Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. StickerU.com Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos tattoos and decals

for your home and your business Ridley Funeral Home Pillars of the community since 1921 and Mike Majewski or as I call him, Mimico Mike He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene Learn more at realestatelove.ca I'm Mike He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca.

I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is Carol Pope. Hi Carol, thanks for making time for me today. Oh, my pleasure. First and foremost, how are you feeling? How's your health these days? I'm better than I was. I'm actually talking about my spine surgery, which you never ever really recover from, apparently. But yeah, I'm a lot better than I was. Okay, great to hear.

We're going to cover a lot of ground here. So whenever I get really annoying, just let me know. But I'm hoping you could take us back and tell us a little bit of the rough trade origin story, how you and Kevin hooked up. at an audition for a band called Diva Locus Sideshow, some trippy band in the late 60s that never happened. But as soon as we met each other, there was an instantaneous connection. And yeah, we ended up. Hello, everybody. This is future Mike here. At this point in the conversation, and I realize we're only like 90 seconds into it, Yeah, we ended up... Hello, everybody. This is future Mike here.

At this point in the conversation, and I realize we're only like 90 seconds into it, Carol started experiencing some serious internet issues. And we had... Well, let's just say it became clear that Carol didn't really want to chat about the, you know, 70s and 80s and far preferred to chat about the most recent project. But fear not. This conversation really corrects itself and becomes pretty awesome.

So hang in there. It might seem a little rocky at first, but it gets better. And I'm in New York and it's really really noisy so oh the noise does not bother me if we can keep a connection uh i will try not to dwell too much on the past but uh you come up quite often on toronto mic you're sort of like our patron saint like our folk hero here and a couple of guys who have been over on the program are the gary's and so we've you've come up on all the conversations with the gary's but i was wondering if you could take a moment and maybe speak about you know your relationship with the gary's particularly gary cormier um gary cormier was our manager for a minute there and then gary's gave us um one of our first big breaks

because we played at the roxy at their theater that they used to run and then uh used to play at the edge all the time which was like the best club ever in toronto i think um yeah i think they're just great guys and you know they were instrumental in introducing so many new bands, or even launching bands, as far as I'm concerned, I think they helped launch the police. And, you know, the Edge was a great venue. And you got to see people that you would never see anywhere else. Like, you know, I remember seeing the Slits and nico and uh john sex and ultravox and it was just amazing amazing venue i guess their secret was they wouldn't book a band unless they legitimately liked the artist like they they had to be a fan of the artist and that was sort of the key and that's kind of cool that means you're going to get kind of interesting acts like that. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Now, is it Gary Cormier? Is he your manager before Bernie takes over?

Is that the timeline there? Bernie was never our manager. Bernie was just our label. Oh, okay. Our record company. Now, Bernie's been... Yeah been Tell me a bit about Bernie Bernie I've known him for a thousand years

And met him When I was like a kid In Yorkville He was managing the Poppers And then he had the label True North He also managed Kensington Market Let me ask you a question We're going to go off a little out of order here Had the label True North. Oh, he also managed Kensington Market.

Let me ask you a question. We're going to go off a little out of order here, but we recently on this program, we literally did 2.5 hours on Tears Are Not Enough. So my question, Carol, is, who asked you to be a part of Tears Are Not Enough? Uh-oh. This is future Mike again,

just to say there is another internet outage at this point. But then I turn off Carol's video, and Carol actually starts using a microphone, and things get much better. So again, hang tight. It's coming. What happened? Yeah, sorry.

So I turned off your video because I couldn't hear you. You were like a robot. And I think it'll be better without your video because maybe there's more bandwidth for the audio. So believe it or not, after I asked you about the tears are not enough, I actually couldn't hear you again after that. I know this is awkward, but could you repeat what you said after I asked you about Tears Are Not Enough? Oh, I just said I don't remember who contacted me

about being a part of that at all because... Because it was a long time ago. It was a long time ago in the 80s. Everything was a little foggy in the 80s. Now, speaking of, okay, so I was told by somebody that the Rough Trade, the album was recorded direct to vinyl, like no tape. Can you explain that process? Like there's no redos, right?

It had to be live. Am I getting this information right? Oh, you mean the Rough Trade live album? Yeah, that was live album yeah that was uh well that was the way they used to record in the olden days in the 50s and 60s um before tape so you would just do perform each side the whole side in one go so i think we did 53 takes. We were in one building and they were mastering it in another building. It was exhausting. Have you seen on Netflix Ma Rainey's Big Black Bottom?

Have you seen this? Yeah. So is it a bit like that, I guess, that they had to get it right or you got to do it all over again? Exactly. Exactly. Will it ever be available digitally i think it is right now but it's all illegal i mean somebody put it out on cd and i know there's downloads but we did not give them

permission and they don't own it and i'm just on my list of people that we have to sue, you know. Well, Carol, straight up. How sick are you of talking about high school confidential? Really sick. Yeah, I know. I can sense it. And I'm about to ask you about it. So you're in New York.

I'm safe, right? Like you can't reach out and punch me because you're far away. Yeah. Because, I mean, it was a big fucking deal right like this is this is not the kind of music that was you know typically getting airplay back then or even maybe now i don't know but i just think it's it was so like groundbreaking as a single that uh it's it's kind of cool that it's been recognized and it's been put into like the canadian songwriters hall of fame like i just think it would be cool if you could share anything about high school confidential she's a cool blonde scheming she make my body twitch

walking down the corridor the corridor You can hear a stiletto click I want so much I feel sick The girl can't

help it, she really can't help it now It's like a high school, a high school a high school confidential A high school a high school

confidential Teenage Brandos stalk her in the halls. They tease her with catcalls. She's a combination. Anita, Edberg, Mamie Van Doren. Dagmar, a high school confidential.

A high school confidential A high school, a high school confidential What's the principal doing with her? Who's that guy? Is he screwing with her? What's her perfume? Tigress by Fabrugé. It'd make me cream my jeans when she'd come my way. A high school, a high school confidential She drives a candy pink, a Cadillac If I don't get her soon, I'll have a heart attack When she passes me a look, I wanna burn my books

Give up high school. Well, well, well, well, high school, high school confidential. High school, high school confidential. A high school confidential. A high school, high school confidential. A high school, high school confidential. Well, actually, we wrote that. Kevin and I were working on a movie called Cruising with Jack Nietzsche.

And we submitted some songs. And one of them was High School Confidential, because I thought Mick DeVille was also on that soundtrack, the cruising soundtrack. And I thought, oh, he can sing that. And they're like, no, it's too literal. It's too right on. And I'm like, I want to sing it. So that's how that happened.

And then we ended up recording it when we signed with True North Records. Now, are you aware at the time of what this would mean for everybody, but for LGBT artists, and what kind of a role model you would be for being yourself? No, I had no idea. We just did what made us happy, and I think the audience related to that, and people interpreted that song different ways. So, yeah, it was great. I mean, it's a very anthemic song and we were very honored to have it inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Would the Toronto radio stations, and because I'm speaking to a primarily like greater Toronto audience here, they couldn't, they didn't play it as is right.

Like you had to beep, beep that song. Oh, chum, chum FM paid us to go in and, you know, changed the cream, my jeans line, but we just goofed around. It didn't happen. A friend of mine said, just saying, just saying, she makes me order Chinese food so i did that and of course they got pissed off with that and just ended up bleeping it but i mean not all radio did that i mean you know it's it got played on other stations and they didn't do that okay cool no i i mean i

don't know like i i uh i hear songs getting the most strangest things getting censored like you'll hear a song and they might refer to like green like like cannabis like they refer to green and you it would be censored like it's just strange what seems to be censored for radio these days well what about you know wap what about that song hello do you think there do you think I don't know this is a strange line to connect but is there a WAP today without a high school confidential you know back in the day

I don't know I don't think the you know I mean it's just I think just people are just trying to push it as far as they can push it. And, um, you know,

whatever, it's gotta be interesting for me to pay attention to it, but that is a pretty wild song. And, and, oh, peaches has a great song. Uh,

just released a great song called pussy mask. Have you seen the video for that? No, but right after this chat, I'm going to go to YouTube and check it out. It's fantastic. My pussy wears a mask. It's like a, like a American, maybe.

You know, these Americans when they're active. Yeah, no, no, it's, it's just her. I guess it's, it's all animated. And I think it is her pussy. It's got a little peaches haircut and it's just her. I guess it's all animated, and I think it is her pussy. It's got a little peach's haircut, and it's wearing a mask. Yeah, safety first. That's what I always say, safety first. All right, great comment.

So I said you were coming on, and one of the listeners, he goes by the name Canada Kev. He goes, high school confidential. He goes, it's such a killer track on so many levels, like her voice and delivery. I can't think of anyone else who could sing that and come close to what she's able to channel. I mean, as time goes on, you must,

I feel like this song has been elevated to a point where it's like this magical moment in CanCon history. I actually first had that song on the Juno compilation. Like there was like a four disc set of like Canadian classics and it had high school confidential. I'm like, what the fuck is this? Like,

this is amazing. yeah. Um, it was a good song, but we've written other good songs too. I know. So, okay.

So let's, let me ask you this because, uh, all touch, all touch, for example, uh, seemed to be your closest thing to like an American hit. And I'm wondering how important was it for you guys to, to break in the States? I pushed her tense face away from me The hot smile What's going on? Like a razor blade I'm worse

Oh, touch But no contact You hit me like You hit me like You hit me like a slap Oh, touch Oh All touch, all touch and no contact Challenging eyes over the rim of a conflict Hoping that we're at

All touch, all touch, no contact I pushed his hand away from me I pushed his hand away from me Splendoring fragments of conversation Never got down to contact Touch but no contact Stab me like a knife in the back Touch but no contact

It's my body for the final attack Oh, touch, oh, touch, oh, touch, no contact I pushed her tense face Away from me I pushed her tense face Away from me The hot smile The voice going on Like a razor blade on glass

Touched the nail contact It hit me like, it hit me like, it hit me like a slap Oh, oh, oh Touched All touched, all touched Hit me like a, hit me like a, hit me like a slap Oh, oh, oh, push All touch, all touch and no contact Challenging eyes over the rim of a cocktail glass Hoping I'd react Oh, oh, oh, touch, all touch and no contact

All touch, all touch and no contact Stab me like a stab, you're like a knife in the back All touch, all touch, all touch and no contact Test my body for the final attack It was really important, but unfortunately we had bad luck and the label that had that album um uh went bankrupt and then some mafia dude i think had our contract and um yeah we just had bad luck in the states time means everything they say but uh yeah yeah that's but you're like as i speak to you you're in in New York. So how long have you been living in the States? I've been living in the States since really 1989. I came to Toronto for the COVID situation last March. So I thought they would handle it better.

But I was not that impressed. Well, I mean, you know, the CERB thing was great, but the vaccine rollout is just what the hell. Have you got your jab yet? Yeah, I had my first Pfizer jab. I'm also here dealing with other health issues that OHIP doesn't cover. But yeah, I got my first jab and I'm excited to get my second one. And I'm starting to be social with a couple of people. But we're wearing masks for sure. And New York, it's like, Toronto really scares me

because it seems like nobody wears a mask outside. And even the biggest assholes here are wearing a mask. I will say, as a guy who tries to get out there on my bike every day, when I'm outdoors, I don't wear a mask too often. I do try to keep distance from every other human being. But you're right, outdoors, it seems't wear a mask too often. I do try to keep, like, you know, distance from every other human being. But you're right. Outdoors, it seems to be a whole different attitude with the masks. Yeah, well, I mean, it's hard to, you know, I mean, when I was there, when it was snowing and all that,

and you're trying to socially distance, you can't really. Right. You know, it's insane. I mean, they ask us to do all this stuff and then it's impossible um are we going to talk about uh world's a bitch because i think that's why i'm doing this interview see that you know there's always a disconnect because i i speak with eric and eric at this point knows that i do longer form combos and I a hundred percent am totally going to talk about that cool single, but I just got a few more like notes here and you can,

you can tell me to fuck off if you like, of course, but I'm going to ask you just a few more questions. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Like for example, cause you know, the, the, the, the listeners of this program like the deeper dives and they get excited when they hear Carol Pope's coming on. So they send in these questions and then I feel obligated, of course, to ask them. Of course, sure. And Ryan, for example, wants to know what you remember.

And hopefully it's more than you remember about Tears Are Not Enough. But what do you remember about Martin Short opening for Rough Trade? Marty, we asked Marty to open for us uh at the edge which was really insane um and it was like the worst i mean he's been on every talk show in america and he keeps he's still talking about this like it was the worst gig in his life uh opening for us because people were throwing beer bottles at him and they just didn't get it. And we were like huge fans of Marty's.

And I guess we met him in Second City because we were always going to Second City in Toronto and it was Gilda and Marty and Eugene and all those amazing people. So yeah, it was a nightmare for him. And obviously he's still talking about it.

Listen, if you bump into Scorsese, I don't know if he's hanging around New York. If you just bump into him, tell him he's got this amazing SCTV reunion that they did at the Wilter Elgin Garden Theater, whatever it's called, on Yonge Street. And he's got this footage, but he seems to be sort of like sitting on it. If he could release that, we'd really appreciate it.

So next time you see Marty, just say, where the hell's the SCTV reunion footage? I never see Marty. But I don't know Marty. But yeah, I would if I saw him. Okay, just say Toronto Mike wants to know. That's cool if you do that. Hey, again,

again, I know I'm annoying you and we're going to get to current stuff, but 1980, because hell let's just go there one more time and tell me you don't remember, but what do you remember about the, the infamous Juno awards? Appearance that you made, I guess you,

you grabbed your goods there, which became very commonplace for pop stars and rock stars to do this but i i guess this was a big big fucking deal in 1980 it was a big fucking deal yeah i mean um they asked us not they asked me not to do it and we did the rehearsal and i didn't do it and then we went live and then i did it i grabbed my crotch i grabbed my junk um and i'm not sorry i did and i got a lovely uh telegram or something from ann murray who said congratulated me and she said her family was really they were kind of really bummed about

something that had happened and she was like that kind of they were kind of really bummed about something that had happened and she was like that kind of made my day that you did that oh good good but yeah I hear I mean you know she's a hell of a golfer by the way if you ever uh you know I'm just I hear I hear Ann's a great golfer I know I haven't seen Ann in a million years but I know she's into golf for sure and again it's interesting that you were both i know i know i'm going back to tears are not enough but now that the connection is good i feel like we're connecting here uh and you don't remember how you got invited to tears are not enough but you remember anything about that day of course i remember everything about the day i just don't

know who asked me to do it you know so it wasn't like bruce you heard got a call from bruce because you know he you can find footage of Bruce. We think it's phony, but he's calling up Gordon Lightfoot or whatever. Gordy, Gordy, we need you. It's a Sunday afternoon. I know you're busy, but we've got to get this in or whatever. You didn't get a frantic Bruce Allen call or something like that? I don't believe I did.

Bruce Allen and I are not close. But at least you were on the bill there. I think it would have been a great oversight. Perhaps I should be. I know, but there's a couple of notable omissions. Like, I don't know where Leonard Cohen was, for example. He probably said no. Oh, you think so?

Probably said, fuck you. Well, what about Buffy St. Marie? Like, I feel like, where the fuck's Buffy St. Marie? I just think she... I don't know. I mean, maybe she was busy. I'm sure some people were busy. Yeah, but Bruce Colburn...

But yeah, it was fun. It was really a fun day and very moving. And yeah, got to meet... Well, I mean, I knew... um yeah got to meet um well i mean i knew i mean i'd met ann and joni mitchell and got to meet neil young and burton comey oh no i think i'd met burton comes before yeah um but yeah there's some uh story i read where i guess uh who's the fuck i should what is his name who's the uh composer of that song the famous producer out in la oh uh david foster david foster and jim valance wrote the lyrics i think right and did brian adams write any of it i think he punched up a lyric or two when he was working with jim there but uh david foster i guess was

asking neil young to sing in key or something. And Neil apparently remarked something like, that's my sound, man. Oh, I can believe that. I know. Yeah, he, David Foster, actually apologized to me because I was singing with Paul Hyde

and he made us do a lot of takes. And then I saw him a few years later and he's like, I'm so sorry about that. You know, there was nothing wrong with the first take. Okay, speaking of Paul Hyde, actually, I'm going to ask you about the Paolas in a second, but the grabbing your junk there, do you think that is sort of inspired

Michael Jackson and Madonna and some of the famous junk grabbers we know from the music world? I think so. I think that Madonna may have been... We played Danceteria and REM opened for us, which happened a lot. Those things happen a lot with Rough Trade. But anyway, we figured that Madonna was at Danceteria because she was always hanging out there.

And she probably saw me grab my crotch and stole it because she steals a lot of shit sure sure that's uh that's carol pope appropriation that's what we call that that's right uh there's a story something because somebody mentioned that nash the slash was suing you over a pepsi commercial well he wasn't suing us, but he sued Pepsi. Yeah, we did this Pepsi commercial, and there were people dancing around wrapped in bandages. And he's like, that's my thing. And I'm like, that's the Invisible Man.

You didn't invent that. But anyway, the commercial got pulled from the air, so we were not amused by that. That sucks. The late great Nash, the slash. You mentioned, you mentioned Paul Hyde there, but okay. So there's a question from a guy called Rock Golf and Rock Golf says, when Carol recorded Never Said I Loved You with the Paolas,

did she sense that Bob Rock was going to be one of the most successful producers of all time? No, she did not. I like that. You can talk in the third person like that i feel like you're uh you're you're worthy of that if you wish okay no i had no idea it's like whatever he didn't sense a greatness to come in terms of at least with his bank account anyway um no but i mean i mean i'm. I mean, he's a good producer. This is an interesting question. Okay, so Cam Gordon, he works at Twitter Canada, actually.

He says, do you have any intelligence from Carol Pope? That's you, by the way. Any intelligence from Carol Pope as to how they got booked by CBC to perform Dyke by default in 1977? Cam's a bit younger than me, but we're of the belief that this is some insanely bleeding edge stuff for 1977.

Oh, yeah, we were on I don't know which show that was, Mike Zosky or Canada After Dark. We were on those shows all the time. They were talk shows in the 70s, but my sister was a producer on that show.

And she was responsible for them getting acts like Devo and The Runaways and Robin Williams. And now I forget the producer that she worked with, but yeah, we were always on that show. Once we were on that show with Buckminster Fuller, and Captain and I lost our minds because we love Buckminster Fuller. But Dyke, by default, this is groundbreaking shit. It was groundbreaking shit.

But they let us do whatever, mostly. I mean, I think they... I mean, there's another song that we did called On With The Show, which really has a lot of obscene words in it. But they let us do it, but they bleeped it. And all that stuff is in the CBC archives. Got to check that out.

I just had on Greg Godovitz. He was on a couple of weeks ago and he tells us he loves telling this story about the the whip me lyrics which i guess are all about you uh were you aware of this and uh of godovich's whip me lyrics you have any awareness of this i am aware yeah um well do you want to you know he's gonna hear this do you want to, you know, he's going to hear this. Do you want to, like, I don't know, tell him to fuck off or something or anything? No, I don't know. I mean, people always ask me about that, and I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever. Whatever's solid.

It was a little sexist. That's why I'm not jumping up and down about it. More than a little sexist. Well, with the camera off, I couldn't even tell. Like, you could have been jumping up and down. I wouldn't have a clue over here. There is no jumping. No jumping. I would hear it in your voice. Mark wants me to ask you

about your relationship with Dusty Springfield who was at the final Rough Trade concert in 86. What specifically? I don't know. I'm just reading it verbatim there but anything you want to share um well we were lovers for a while and um it was pretty traumatic i mean read my book if-Diva um but yeah she was an amazing amazing artist

and um she sang backup vocals on with actually with my late brother on a track of ours called The Sacred and the Profane and we uh and then she covered a couple of songs that we wrote like soft core and I am curious but yeah she was like a fabulous deeply troubled person who you know had problems with alcohol and then she got sober and then fan she had fantastic career resurgence because of the Pet Shop Boys I went to her funeral and I met the Pet Shop Boys and we just drank you know we drank champagne and toasted Dusty all night. Yeah I mean the Pet Shop Boys absolutely and then of course Pulp Fiction sort of gave a whole new generation a taste of Dusty Springfield. Yeah, she really was a brilliant, innovative artist

and nobody had a voice like hers and really had a great time talking about music and her career. And I was always quizzing her about how she recorded and things like that. Cool. Thank you for sharing that, by the way. I know it was a little personal there,

but thank you so much DJ Dream Doctor says you did a song she did a song about Johnny Marr from the Smiths I was wondering if she was a huge Smiths fan back in the day and what their music meant to her I was a huge Smiths fan I think it was

kind of a soundtrack of the 80s. And I love Johnny Moore's guitar playing. So I just kind of wrote about that time in Toronto when I lived on St. Joseph Street. And all my friends and I were into the Smiths. And we would just hear that all. It was kind of the soundtrack of the early 80s. Yeah, for sure for sure all right

now look that was fantastic now i need to hear how did you hook up with uh church of trees This effed up world's a bitch This lockdown life is so closed in I am so tired of being alone I can't go out, I can't see shit No romantic circumstances So claustrophobic on my own They keep saying Just be patient

can't take much more before i spit so Hear it in their heavy sighs In others' troubled eyes Only touch I feel is on my own It is so constipating My eyes keep dilating No fun even masturbating

in the safe zone Wash those hands Keep six feet back keep six feet back. They keep saying, just be patient. A mask on and raving, can't take much more before I... They keep saying, just be patient. Mask on and raving. Can't take much more before I... Give me my wet dream vaccine They keep saying Just be patient

Mask on, mask on You can't take much more before I They keep saying Just be patient I can't take much more before I spit. That happened because I've been working with Rob Pruse on and off for 10 or 11 years. Rob Pruse works with Church of Trees. He plays keyboards. He was in The Spoons and Honeymoon Suite.

He's done gigs with Rough Trade. So he just sent me this song, and I thought it was a great song with a great hook and I could be all bitter on it and kind of, you know, it's just about COVID burnout and I really

like synth pop. I just like the whole sound so much. I'm like, yeah, I'm in. So I recorded the vocal. And I'll just, you know know I'll be adding the vocal I'm going to add the music in post here so that people listening get a taste but yeah you sound fantastic

and it's great to hear you sounding so strong in 2020 I guess you recorded that in 2020 yeah I guess I did I don't even remember it's not that long ago it was not that long ago or was it 2021 when did I record that February I don't even remember it's not that long ago it was not that long ago or was it 2021 when did

i record that february i don't know okay that's 2021 yeah this is these are important details okay so i think it was february i can't remember it because covid time who knows it's all a blur it's all a blur but you know now that you're like literally weeks away from jab number two and i know you still have to do your masking and six feet but it must like how does that feel like I'm so fucking far away from getting my first jab here in Ontario like but the fact that you know that like a hundred percent of people who get this vaccine if they get COVID-19 they don't need to go to the hospital like it's really mild symptoms like you must have that whole like it's the beginning of the end optimism. Yeah.

It's very exciting. I mean, I was out with a friend of mine in New York and we went to a museum of modern art and we were, like, just so thrilled to be, like, semi-normal, you know, have a semi-normal experience, even though we're masked up. And, yeah, it was great. I mean, I just hope everybody gets the vaccine i don't know why you wouldn't but people are assholes so no this it's yeah it's strangely seems to be strangely political politicized like you find people that are really like staunchly conservative or like

republican sympathetic they seem to be like i don't need a vaccine and it seems strange to me like when did health become political i don't know how it happened it happened because of trump um but it's you know i mean you either want to be well and have a semi-normal life or uh you know a a lot of Republicans are dropping dead because they're not wearing masks or conservatives or whatever, anti-maskers or they don't believe in it, but I know a lot of people who've died.

So, you know, don't be stupid. So if you were going to do like a PSA for everybody listening right now, it's get your damn shot. Get your shot, Wear a fucking mask. Social distance. We're never going to be 100% normal because

there's always going to be something. Because of all the variants, we're going to have to get booster shots. This SARS thing is going to be around forever. We're going to have to learn how to live with this. And yeah, you're right. It'll be like you get, you know, every fall when the flu shot comes out, they'll be like, okay, the flu shot and the COVID booster, whatever they're going to call it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, exactly. They're just going to have to keep whipping up

those boosters. And this is the first time I've ever taken a vaccine like that, because I never get flu vaccines. I'm like, nah. But this one, I was like, I can't wait to get it. Right. Please. So that's exciting you're getting that. The other thing that, since we mentioned the politicizing of the vaccine, it seems to be, I think it's pre-Trump, because of course, pre-Trump, was politicized like you know far-right conservatives they don't acknowledge that climate change exists like they deny that they deny the science and I feel it's tied to that like there seems to be some some sense of like science denial when you're on the extreme right of the spectrum I know I just think they're idiots I mean what are they brain

dead morons I mean can they not see what's going on? You know, especially with the weather. You know, snap out of it. Dawn, who's listening, just wants me to tell you that she says, we were absolutely thrilled to see Rough Trade at Dream Serenade. I never know how to say this word. Serenade? Serenade. Serenade. I never know how to say this word. Serenade? Serenade.

Serenade. Serenade. Okay, thank you. In 2019. Now, this is the Hayden Desser event? Yeah. So that's pretty cool. I mean, a lot of big, big artists perform at it,

and I always hear fantastic things and get jealous I wasn't there, but that was pretty cool to be a part of that in 2019. Yeah we actually performed with the Barenaked Ladies and that was amazing and we did a video a high school confidential video with the Barenaked Ladies which I love. We did that in 2020. What I like about the guys from the Barenaked Ladies is that they really do give their props and respect to the the artists they grew up loving like they had Andy Kim they did a project of Andy Kim like in the last few years uh and they did something with Kim Mitchell actually uh one of the Max Webster jams I think Diamonds Diamonds so it's just they totally like give their props to the uh the artists

they listen to as a teenager yeah and and I've worked with Kevin Hearn, and I co-wrote a single called Resist It, and just sang on another project that he's doing. So we're good pals, and he's just the sweetest guy. And Kevin was in Look People, right? Yeah. Right, okay, cool. So this is a good chance.

Firstly, thank you so much. Because sometimes when I have on these big fucking rock stars, they just want to talk about the one project that they're on to talk about. And I'm glad that you kind of allowed me to ask you questions that predate Church of Trees stuff. But can you share with me anything going on, like any projects that are coming up or anything recent from Carol Pope that we could check out?

Yes, I can. First of all, you can get all my solo stuff everywhere. It's available everywhere, Bandcamp, iTunes, because I have a lot of solo work. You know, I recorded a single with Peaches called Lesbians in the Forest, and we were both on the show Transparent. I recorded with Rufus Wainwright. Actually, Rob Preece worked on that single. It's called Landfall. And I'm currently developing a musical with Kate Rigg, and we have

a GoFundMe up for it, and it's about New York in the 80s, and my brother, and AIDS, and ACT UP, and it's all Rough Trade music and what else and i rough trade is going to be doing a live stream at the elmo but we don't have a date date yet but that'll and kevin hearn's gonna be play with us that'll be cool for sure that port that timing sucks eh because weckerly threw i don't know what he put 20 something million bucks into that place and then covid hit like just the launch. It kind of seems like... I know. It's such a beautiful, beautiful venue. I can't believe it.

It's amazing. And you mentioned Transparent. I got to say, I absolutely loved that series, Transparent. I thought it was fantastic. Yeah. It was pretty good. And an amazing experience to

be on the set and work with Peaches and such a damn good title Transparent like it just so clever so Carol thanks so much for taking some time to chat with me

and I thoroughly enjoyed connecting with you today. Oh, well, thanks for having me. It was fun. Anytime you need to chat about anything, listen, you know how to connect with me. And then now I learned the trick is to not have your video on because you sounded so much better when I turned off your video.

And I'm also using a microphone now, so that helps. Something changed, but thanks again I'll let you get back to your day but this was awesome okay you take care and be safe you too wear a fucking mask Carol I am

okay bye bye bye and that brings us to the end of our 823rd show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Carol is at Carol Pope.

Just remember to put an E at the end of Carol. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Ridley Funeral Home is at Ridley FH. And Mimico Mike, he's on Instagram at Majeski Group Homes. See you all next week. Rosie and Gray Yeah the wind is cold

But the snow Warns me today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is Rosie and Gray Well you've been under my skin

For more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears And I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you But I'm a much better man for having known you Oh, you know that's true because Everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow Wants me today

And your smile is fine and it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy and gray Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who Yeah, I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of gray.

Cause I know that's true, yes I do. I know it's true, yeah. I know it's true. How about you? Are they picking up trash and then putting down ropes? And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes. Thank you. Who gives a damn? Because everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine

And it won't go away Because everything is rosy and green Well I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on Chaclacour But I like it much better Going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up

Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms us today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls.

Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.