Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Catherine McClenahan: Toronto Mike'd #1337

Episode Date: October 3, 2023

In this 1337th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Catherine McClenahan about the new MuchMusic documentary, her thoughts about it, her place in MuchMusic history and her career post-Much. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Pumpkins After Dark, Ridley Funeral Home, Electronic Products Recycling Association, Raymond James Canada and Moneris.

Welcome to episode 1337 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Pumpkins After Dark. Use the promo code TOMIKE15 and save 15% at PumpkinsAfterDark.com.

RecycleMyElectronics.ca. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past the advantaged investor podcast from raymond james canada valuable perspective for canadian investors who want to remain knowledgeable informed and focused on long-term success season five of yes we are open an award-winning podcast from Moneris, hosted by FOTM El Grego. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making her Toronto mic debut is Catherine McClenahan. Welcome, Catherine.

Thank you. Great to be here. Welcome, Catherine. Thank you. Great to be here. It sounds like we just missed our window to actually do this in person, because as we speak, you're in L.A., but you were just in Toronto, right? Yes, I was. I was there. I've been back for a week now. We just missed each other. I know. And I think I was looking at pictures and I saw you in the background.

I went, oh, that's you were there. And I could have just gone up if I'd known. Yeah, well, that's as soon as I saw your pictures, I had the same feeling. I was the guy in the Martha and the Muffins T-shirt. Yes. So we were at the same place at the same time. I'm really excited to talk to you because that was Roy Thompson Hall. And that was a couple of Fridays ago. Thompson Hall and that was a couple of Fridays ago.

So we're going to go back because you're an important part of Much Music history. You are a first and we're going to get into that in a moment. But I'm trying to understand, you were in Los Angeles. How long have you lived in the United States of America? I've lived in the States since 1987. I lived in New York for a couple of years and then moved out here with my now husband when he got a show. And yeah, I've been in LA longer than I've been anywhere. And I've lived here for 34 years now.

Ha! Wow. Yeah, 87. Okay, that's a long time ago. And are you from Toronto or whereabouts are you from originally? I grew up in Ottawa, born and raised. And then I lived in Toronto for about seven years, from like 79 to 87. I was there. Yeah. answer to a like a trivia question like to me this is a significant part of much music history but people often wonder aloud maybe it's just me Catherine but who was the first woman VJ in much music history Catherine do you know the answer to that important question I certainly do

I do because it was me and it was it was a thrilling time in my life. And, you know, they had looked for over a year. And I was very honored to get the gig. And yes, it would be a good trivial pursuit question. And I bet you a lot of people will get that answer wrong. Of course. Yes. Especially when they see this documentary okay so here we're going to build up to this obviously because i want to know exactly i have a lot of questions around the doc the documentary is called 299 queen street west you and i saw it together we weren't sitting beside each other but we were in the same building watching it together so let me just understand who you were so so much music who are. Who are you, Catherine? No. In 1980, lots of questions for you. In 1984, that's when much music goes on the air.

Is that the same calendar year that you become a VJ on much music? No, I started in 1985. They were looking for over a year. And it's actually funny how I got the job, which I can tell you about. So I'm trying to understand. So who were you when you got the gig? And in great detail, Catherine, how did you get that gig? Okay, so I'm an actor and a singer and a host and a writer. I was in New York at the MTV New Year's Eve party in January of 1985 with my then boyfriend at the time, Paul Farberman. And he knew a bunch of people at this party and I knew a bunch of people too. So, you know, I introduced him to the guys in Duran Duran, whom I'd known because a friend of mine had gone out with Simon. I introduced him to the guys in Duran Duran, whom I'd known because a friend of mine had gone out with Simon. I introduced him to the guys in general public. I had done a scene with them in a movie the year before, and they were there. It was great to see them. I introduced him to Vita

Scarolaitis, whom I knew and partied with many times because a friend of mine was a tennis promoter. And after, I think, the third person I introduced him to, Paul said, oh my God, Catherine, you should be a VJ at Mudge Music. I said, what's a VJ? And he goes, a video jock. And after I think the third person I introduced him to Paul said, Oh, my God, Catherine, you should be a VJ at much music. I said, What's a VJ? And he goes, a video jock. He goes, they've been looking for over a year. He goes, you'd be perfect. I'm calling john martin when we get back. I'm like, okay. So he called john martin. And I had an interview with him and Nancy Oliver. And we just hit it off like a house on fire. And they were like, Oh, my God, you're perfect. You're perfect. Okay. Now you have to meet Moses. And I'm like, okay. And they're like, okay, whatever he says, do not take it personally. Don't take whatever he says, do not take it personally. So I'm like, so what you're

telling me is don't take it personally. Like, yeah. So I have my meeting scheduled with Moses and it was for five o'clock. I remember an afternoon and I'm waiting up and this is 99 Queen Street East where we first started. And I'm sitting outside his office and at 20 after five, he walks out, he looks at me and he goes, I know you're waiting and then goes back in again. And I start laughing and I went, okay, this guy's an asshole. And then he comes out 20 minutes later and he looks at me and he goes, you're just wearing that because you want a job at a rock station. And he goes back in and I went, oh, he's a fucking asshole.

Okay, great. I see why they warned me. And then another 20 minutes goes like 10 to 6. He finally says, okay, come in. And so I walk in and I go, hi, Moses. It's nice to meet you too. He goes, what do I want to hire you for? You with your lawyer father, Ottawa upbringing. He goes, I already have my WASP. I already have JD. He goes, I want a French Canadian Eskimo with red hair.

And I went, well, that's awesome. I said, I think you should absolutely hire that person when you find that person. And in the interim, you should hire me because I'm funny and I'm smart and most of my friends are either in bands or in the record companies and I go out to concerts all the time I'm writing comedy I'm doing all this stuff so he kind of loosened up a little bit and I wasn't taking any of his shit like I was just you know I was so amused by this whole thing I was actually hoping there was a camera out while I was waiting for him because I was just laughing and looking at magazines the whole time. So he kind of, you know, warmed up a little bit. And then we talked for another few minutes. I was telling him stuff that I've been doing and writing comedy with my friend Joe Bodilai. And anyway, so then he said, well, I've got to got to go down to the CN Tower City TV is doing

something he goes we could continue our our conversation in the car he goes I can't hang out all night but I said okay let's continue it in the car and go down there so we continued in the car and he was you know warming up to me and um being a little bit more polite um we get there and he showed me around what he was doing with Citi, which was very cool. And then we went up to the party and he, you know, we talked for a couple of minutes. He said, I got to work the room. I said, absolutely. I said, I'll let you know before I leave. So I wound up getting a drink at the bar.

I went around and had a great time. I saw friends that I knew. I chatted with people I didn't know. And after about 30 minutes, I thought, okay, I'm going to leave now. It's a good time. So I found Moses and he was talking with this older couple I had just met a little while ago. And I said, oh, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I have to get going. And the older couple goes, you're not leaving, are you? And I went, yeah, I'm sorry. I got to go. And

Moses goes, how do you know them? And I said, oh, we go way back. I don't know who they were. They must've been some big mucky muck couple anyway so he said okay send me some of your comedy stuff and I said okay I will and I had Joe send it and with a note it said here's my comedy stuff hire me and Moses wrote back okay I will and so that's how I got the job but he never wanted to hire me because I was blonde and blue eyed. And so was JD Roberts. And he, he wanted diversity. God bless him for wanting diversity. I think it's fantastic. And, you know, I'm not taking anything away from his genius or his, you know, what he created with much was brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Well, this is all very, very interesting to me. I feel like you're like a missing cog in the wheel here.

I feel like I've uncovered this like artifact here as an archaeological dig. And this is amazing. Now, I will tell you a fun fact is you talk about, you know, Moses' work in the room and your first time meeting Moses. I actually met Moses for the first time on Friday. So we're speaking here on Tuesday. And less than a week ago was my first time having a conversation with Moses. So. So he so. Hopefully he's more charming now than he was back then. But you're a guy. So you probably have a little step up right there. Right. And I was

wearing a Toronto tee and it was a faux retro Toronto tee, which obviously means it was recreated by Retro Kid and Retro Ontario, and they sent it to me. But Moses thought it was the OG, like I had it from the early 80s. I let him live in that fantasy world because it seemed to make him very, very happy here. Okay, so you got the gig. It's interesting that him know he him saying you know we have our wasp i always wonder does that apply to everything like we have our jewish person we

have our black person it's like this is we've you know we're trying to collect this uh diaspora here but we've checked off blue-eyed white person yeah yeah so he really did not, um, he didn't make my time there very easy. Like he would walk up to me just before I go literally seconds before I'd go live on the air and he'd go, what are you wearing that for? And we're back. So, but you know, he was abusive. He was, um, he was not kind. He wasn't encouraging. And I tried to just stay away from him as much as I could. Now, when you say abusive, just to just stay away from him as much as I could. Now, when you say abusive, just to clarify, you mean he was verbally abusive to you? Verbally abusive. Yeah, verbally abusive. And also, you know, misogynistic, narcissistic,

all that fun stuff that rolls in together with that. But I had a wonderful time working there. I loved it. I got some great press, which I sent you. I don't know if you had a chance to read any of them. But I got a lot of wonderful, wonderful support and press. And so I was working there for about four months. And I was offered a part in a musical, Yuppies, the musical. And I talked with John and Nancy. And I said, I've been offered this part. I'd love to take it.

I just want you to know it's not going to interfere with my job at all. They're going to work around my rehearsal schedule with my shifts on much. And they were like, gave me their full blessing. Absolutely. Go do it. And so as soon as Moses found out that I had gotten this job, he fired me. And I was getting as much fan mail as jd roberts even though i'd only been there a few months and he'd been there for a year and i was you know the globe and mail

called me quite splendid um he really didn't have you can't fire somebody for being a blonde i don't know anyway i sued him and i won i sued him for wrongful dismissal and i won good for you yeah because it was just the principle of the thing you know i didn't get a lot of money because i'd only been there for a few months but it was it was the principle of the thing and i thought i'm not gonna you know you just can't do that i'm gonna play a clip of you on much music so people can hear how it sounded back in 1985. By the way, not a lot of, I think, I think, I have a pretty good source on this, but you know,

we hear a lot about how Bell Media has this archive and I often hear it referenced the Much Music Library and, you know, very few are allowed in there. We talk about this new documentary and sean menard was allowed access and then bell medias recently mentioned they're going to digitize this access which is great then it'll last forever but i don't think there is actually very much from the first you know decade of much music i think they erased all these tapes and taped over them like there's very little out there for example if i'm looking for footage uh on youtube or elsewhere for of katherine mcclenahan on much music there's not a lot i found a clip though but

before i play the clip would you mind just telling those who haven't seen like who just don't know the history of much music maybe they haven't listened to toronto mike before because i've covered this a million times but who exactly exactly was John Martin and Nancy Oliver? Well, they were the producers of Much, and John was one of the creators of Much with Moses. And so they, you know, everything sort of had to go through them, and they were, you know, if one of us had problems or concerns or something, we would go to John or Nancy.

So was it a bit of a three-headed monster in that you have John and Nancy and then Moses interfering all over the place? I wouldn't call it a three-headed monster. I think it ran very well. I think Moses was, you know, he was, you know, I know he wants the best for his station. And I know Bob Sigurini made comments in an article that he wrote about how Moses would come down and

yell and scream at people. So I know it's not just me. I think that he was, you know, would yell at her, would be, I don't know. Okay. Catherine, here's homework for you when you're, if you're ever bored or maybe you're going for a run or something and you need to listen to something, go listen to Bob Sigurini on Toronto Mike because I've had this conversation with him and he talks about, you know, getting fired from much and it's quite something. Yeah, yeah, I will listen to it.

I'm sure Bob was great. He was such a treasure. I miss him. I miss him. He was fun to work with. You know, that was the joy of working there that everybody, everybody except for Moses was wonderful. They were just really, really wonderful and supportive and kind. And, you know, because I was doing something that no female had ever done.

Luckily, there had been J.D. Roberts and Christopher Ward and Mike Williams before me. So I could, you know, figure out what to do. But I had a blast there. I loved it. And I wished I could have stayed longer. It is fascinating to me that we talk about how Moses essentially seems to be judging you for being waspy, blue-eyed, attractive, blonde, which he sent around a memo after, after I was let go and for how, for them to discuss me. And it was, it was pretty brutal. He said I had a haughty lady,

beautiful attitude. I don't know what that is, but apparently I had that. And then at one point, I was reading all these articles. He said I was too old. Yeah, at 26, I was too old. Meanwhile, all the guys are older. Also, I want to point out, you know, when you're interviewing with Mike Williams the other day, he was saying that he had all kinds of other things going on besides much. You know, he had a lot of stuff in the music industry that he was doing so it's okay for the guys to do something but not for the girls of course again here's the misogyny

right and it's the same thing with with completely cutting me out of this documentary like well hold your fire we're gonna definitely dive into that are you kidding me i'm gonna play you first ask you a couple more questions about your time at much, and then we're going to let you free here. Listen, this is your space here. Okay, so this is Catherine McClanahan on Much Music in 1985. Don't worry, baby, from Los Lobos. Before that, Criminal Mind from Gowan, and Ultravox is back at the beginning with Love's Great Adventure.

Right now, we have music from Glenn Frey. The heat is on. First of all, though, something from Wham! Now this song is going to be dedicated to Manny, who's having a birthday in North trial. Happy birthday, Manny. Hope you're enjoying this preview week as we are. By the way, we've got a great Wham! contest going on right now.

Now you can win with a friend a trip to London, England, to meet Wham! All you have to do is write your name, address, telephone number, and age on a postcard along with the number of videos that Wham has made. Okay, I'm not going to tell you, but you have to figure that one out by yourself. Send it to Make It Big With Wham, care of much music, 99 Queen Street East, Toronto, Ontario, M5C2M1. I don't know when the date is. No later than April 26th

And the draw date is April 28th And please do this on a postcard It must be mailed If it's not on a postcard Into the garbage it goes Right now here is Careless Whisper So there you are

There I am I exist So there you are. There I am. Uh-huh. I exist. This is like a proof that we're not making this up, everybody. This is real. And I just want to say, my boyfriend at the time, Paul Farberman, blessedly, he taped a ton of my my episodes and i've been going through them and it's it's really funny obviously to go through them but i have a bunch of stuff that i'm going to be

putting up okay so you'll release it into the wild so we can access this because like i said that was literally the only clip i could find yeah when you google me that's the only one that's up there and i can't remember who put it up because i was not really i'm not really good with that kind of stuff but um yes i'm gonna put more up i'm gonna get it it's on a disc right now i have to get it somehow on a computer so i can send it out but yeah there's a bunch and they're they're funny and jd roberts taught me how to juggle on the air um which was fun i hope i have that one i haven't found that one yet do you still have a relationship with john roberts as he calls himself now i i do actually we uh we keep in touch on

twitter i hate calling it x but we keep in touch on Twitter because I have been very vocal about Fox News and what it's done to our country. Well, I got some clip about that too coming up. So lots coming up in this episode. So here we are. We've now discussed your time at Much. It sounds like everybody was pretty kind to you except Moses, and it sounds like a bullshit reason you were fired,

and that's why you were successful with that wrongful dismissal suit. Exactly. Okay so when did you learn that there was a documentary being made about Much Music? When Erica interviewed me last year for her reinvention of the VJ podcast she mentioned it it to me then. And I thought that's very exciting. That's great. She mentioned she was going to be a producer on it. She didn't say what kind of producer, but she said, and so I didn't hear anything else about it until Mike Williams sent me a thing and said, Are you coming up? Are you coming? And I said, I didn't hear about it. I wasn't invited. I don't know if I should. He goes, No, no, no Are you coming? And I said, I didn't hear about it. I wasn't invited.

I don't know if I should. He goes, no, no, no, you should definitely come up. You should definitely come up. So he encouraged me and I thought, well, I don't know if it's really expensive, but I found a return trip for less than 500 bucks. And I was like, okay, I guess I'll go up. And there was probably other things you could do in the city while you were in town. Oh yeah. This was my, the Roy Thompson Hall screening was the last night. I had been there for a week. I had a blast visiting friends. I had so much fun and, you know, cause I have a ton of friends in Toronto and it's wonderful to see them. So I had a really great trip before that last night and I'm, and I'm glad that I did.

So here we've got, so, so, and when we say Erica, we mean Erica M, just in case people are curious, which Erica? Of course, it's Erica M. Now, Erica M, how did that go?

That conversation, I forgot about that conversation on Erica's podcast. That was a fine experience for you? Oh, yeah. Okay. Absolutely. All right, good, good.

Yeah. So, Mike Williams says, are you coming up? You get the ticket, you're coming to Toronto and you're going to attend so did you get a did you at least get a comped ticket for the two nights? Yes I did

I texted Erica now this is not knowing anything about the film and I said hey I hear the documentary is happening I want to come up and see it do I get a discount if I'm a former VJ and And she said, and she said, she told me to contact Sean Menard. So I did. And I wrote him and introduced myself,

told him who I was. And he said, he said, oh, yeah, if you're if you're willing to come on up and see it, I will have two VIP tickets for you. He said, just, you know, but don't get mad at me like all the other VJs that you're not featured in the documentary. And I said, well, I'd be shocked if I was featured because this is the first time we're

talking, but I didn't know. Okay. So you just, okay. If I'm going to read between some lines and I will say that you were on social media being quite vocal. In fact, for fun, I'm just going to read one of your Instagram posts had the following hashtags.

I'm going to run down your hashtags, and then we're going Life, Original VJ, Fun, Friends, Documentary, Rock and Roll, Music, Videos, Gaslighting, Betrayal, Misogyny, Alternate Facts, 2023, 1985. So just those hashtags alone, it's going to get a lot of people's attention. Yeah, that was the, that was the point. You know, I had, as I said, I had such a great time. And when I had talked to Erica, and in my interview last year, she had told me that everyone was going to be in it in clips or something, but only a few, a few VJs were going to be featured, you know, throughout. And I said, well, that makes sense. You know, you can't feature everybody, but, um, so I, I just assumed we were all in clips. Well, let's find out. So you're sitting in Roy Thompson hall. Well, let's

go before that because the red carpet is also something that, you know, I don't think they wanted me there, but I went, I went up, I was there with my friend Eva and, uh, and Mike Williams was very insistent, even though he was late for the red carpet. He said, he goes, you get up there. I'm going to make sure that you get up there. And I was like, well, I'm just going to go up there anyway. Cause you know, I was the first female VJ and I still hadn't seen the film. So I didn't know what was going on. Well, and Erica was hadn't seen the film so I didn't know what was going on well and Erica was really nice she came over and gave me a hug and Steve Anthony was great and I now know Denise didn't recognize me which was funny but hey I need glasses too so

I get it but anyway I was like literally off to the side and they allowed me in a picture at the end where they had anybody else that worked at much music can come into this picture so i was like okay i'll go into that one even though i thought i should have been up there with the djs but i still i still didn't know right so i was just okay because you haven't seen this dog so you're but now monarch came up and introduced himself to me on the red carpet and he said, thanks for coming. And, you know, I said, oh, great. I look forward to it. So, okay.

Okay. So Sean Menard, the director, he's also an FOTM. That's a friend of Toronto Mike, Erica M by the way, also an FOTM and Michael Williams and FOTM, Steve Anthony's an FOTM, Denise Donlan's an FOTM. And finally, now I can say Catherine McClanahan is an FOTM. So although later I'll, I'll share a fun fact that one of your ex-husbands is also an FOTM and finally now I can say Catherine McClanahan is an FOTM although later I'll share a fun fact that one of your ex-husbands is also an FOTM

but we're going to talk about that later so now you're in your seat the movie is about this is about two hours long this movie 299 Queen Street West you're sitting there please tell me I want to know

what you thought of the documentary, particularly the fact that you were not seen in this documentary, nor was, was your name uttered in this documentary? Yeah, so, I, I love the film, I mean, the film is great, it's so much fun, it really captured the, um, the joyous chaos that was creating this new thing, you know, this new show that nobody had ever done before. And he really, he really captured that when it got to the point where, uh, the, what he said was Moses decided there should be a female VJ and then they have a shot of Erica. And I was like, oh, oh, no. OK.

Oh, oh, they're just going to pretend that I didn't even exist, that my contribution as the first female VJ, not only at MuchMusic, but also my part in Canadian broadcast history is just going to be wiped out of this quote-unquote documentary. Do you remember whose voice? Because Sean's voice is not in this doc. So do you remember, like, was it Erica's voice that made that? No, it wasn't. It was a male voice, whoever was doing the voiceover at that time. I'm not sure who the voiceover was. But anyway, it said, you know, it made it it implied that erica was the first female vj she was um you know she was the second she started a couple of months after i did um she was still a receptionist when i was the first female vj and um so i was i was like i was shocked

but not horribly surprised um and as i said i was uh it was very weird to being in this room with all these thousands of people and watching this history of you know it was such a big part of my life and it was a big part of much music too when i was you know the first female they made a big deal out of it um because they had been looking for over a year. So it was, I mean, I've been screwed over before in my 64 and a half years and I hope this will be the last time, but it really, at the time I just thought I'm not going to say anything right now. And after I was very nice to Erica, I was very nice to Sean. I told him I enjoyed his film. I am going to be emailing him. I've been waiting just to, you know, get all my thoughts in order. And the, you know, the more comments that have been posted and everything, they could have

mentioned the fact that I was in the audience, but they really, they really wanted to completely shut me out of the history. And that's why I put those hashtags, betrayal, misogyny, because it is, it's so disrespectful to women. It's so disrespectful to our accomplishments to have this be completely, um, ignored and, um, and just, you know, to me, it's gaslighting. It's like, you don't exist, which is, I tell you, it's a very, very strange feeling. I felt like I was in an episode of The Twilight Zone. I really did. I was like, is this really happening? This is really happening. And then you kind of doubt yourself. Well, maybe, was I not the first female VJj did i all make it up in my head as your mind starts doing these funny things like no no i know but it's it's just again the dismissive misogynistic um just disrespect of women's accomplishments and not supporting women's place in history um not only at much but in the canadian broadcasting industry and i was a pioneer for a lot of people you know i was a second female vj in the Canadian broadcasting industry. And I was a pioneer for a lot of people. You know, I was a second female VJ in the country.

Sam, Samantha Taylor was first at Video Hits. I have a poster. So it was a gift from Joel Goldberg and it's the cover of a magazine. And you're sitting there and it's like, yeah, you know the cover. I'm because Jay Gold is in that cover. Right. He's on it. We're all on it.

Yes. Samantha Taylor. Do you remember who else? Christopher Ward, John Major. We're all on it. Yeah, Samantha Taylor. Do you remember who else? Christopher Ward? John Major? It was all the, I have it. I should frame it, actually, because I intend to frame it. And Eric is in that picture, too, right?

Oh, yeah. Eric is there. We're all there. And so, you know, I was the fourth VJ. I was hired after mike williams so um so for the record it was so jd roberts and christopher ward are like tied i guess they're in first they were the first they bust through that paper in the first episode then michael williams uh and again jd roberts not yet an fotm if you're listening john. Like, what's going on here?

But okay. It's time. It's time. Come on. So, Michael Williams, number three. You, Catherine, are number four. Yeah. Wow.

Okay. And the first female. Yes, which is significant. The first woman, Vijay. So, why do you think your history was erased from this documentary? Like why you think that's misogyny or do you think, cause you, you mentioned in a social media post that Erica was the producer dot,

dot, dot. Are you suggesting that it didn't suit the narrative? I absolutely suggest it didn't suit the narrative. And I don't know whether Moses had anything to do with this doc. No, no, I can tell you,

I don't even think he liked it to be with this doc. No, no, I can tell you, I don't even think he liked it, to be honest. Okay. Well, I don't know who was producing it. But Erica and I, you know, I was, I wrote her an email after the fact. And I was, you know, I let her have it. It's just like, how could you? How could you take my credit away? You're supposed to be empowering women. And this is hypocritical. You're not empowering women if you're taking this be empowering women and this is hypocritical you're not empowering women if you're taking this and as a you know so I had a long talk with her we spoke and she said that she did not she said she didn't know which I find hard to believe because she had seen an earlier screening of it I guess a few months ago before it was finished she said she was a you know a consulting producer and had made a list of people that Sean should include in the documentary,

but ultimately it was his decision and his choice. And I certainly understand that, you know, my, you know, my time there was brief, but, and you don't have to, you know, dwell on it, but to be completely cut out from this and my part in the history of Much Music and the history of Canadian broadcasting, it's just, to me, it's appalling. It's just appalling. And, you know, Erica said she felt really bad. She apologized. She said she's going to mention me at screenings. But, you know already the damage is done i'm not in the film it's already you know whitewashed my my contribution so i don't know i i you know i understand that sean had to pick uh certain things and get it under two hours i mean he could have made that and it could have been a series and it could have been a series, obviously. It could have been, this could have gone on and on and on, because there's so much about much. And I understand that you've got to keep it tight, and there's certain, you know, you're only going to concentrate on a few VJs. But to totally gaslight me and my history there, my history is, is just, to me, it's appalling. And again,

it's, it's, it's, it's another misogynistic putting of women and their accomplishments down. And I, it's 2023, this shit has to stop. This is bullshit. So how are things of you and Erica M right now? I'm only meeting you now for the first time, but I'm totally enjoying this conversation. But just coincidentally, I think I've bumped into Erica M three times in the past 10 days, I think it feels like.

And we've actually, I mean, she's been on the program as well for a longer conversation, but we've had some pretty good personal chats lately. I don't, I want to believe in my heart of hearts. There's no vindictive, vindictive meanness meant here. She said there was no malice.

No malice. That's the word I'm looking for, Catherine, malice. That's why you're the pro. She said it wasn't an intentional, but I mean, how can you do the history of much without putting the first female in? I'm sorry. It just doesn't fly. I admire Erica. Listen, she was thrown into shark-infested waters.

I don't think she was, you know, qualified at that time, and she had to sink or swim, and she swam and she swam and she swam, and she put up with all the crap that everyone threw her way. And I give her kudos for creating the career that she did and having the impact she did on much. I don't want to take any of that away from her because she, she really, she really,

boy, she persevered. She really persevered and God bless her for doing that. I, I admire Erica. I have, you know, I don't, I don't want to have ill will towards anyone because, hey, we're all on our journey walking each other home, as Ram Dass says.

But I will be being, I'm going to be vocal about this because to me, this is wrong. It's disrespectful. And God bless Monica Dior. She was the only one. She came up to me after the screening and she said to me, she goes, they didn't even mention you. And I said, no, they didn't. And she goes, oh, my gosh. She goes, that is so disrespectful.

And I said, I think so, too. And God bless her. She found one of the pictures that had me in it. And she posted it on her Instagram and her social media and gave me credit for being the first female BJ. And I'm very grateful to her for that. That is a woman that is standing up for other women and empowering other women. And that's the example that I want to see moving forward from here and not having people, you know, gaslight you like you didn't exist because, oh, it doesn't fit their story.

It doesn't fit their narrative. It doesn't fit their narrative. I just think that's wrong. It's just wrong. I am glad that you're speaking up. I'm a big fan of facts. In fact, I got a little bit of pushback because I watched this documentary and I actually got turned around on your situation. So initially watching the doc,

obviously you were not mentioned or shown. So if you're just learning about much music through this doc you don't realize the first woman uh vj was katherine mcclanahan that's a fact but it was never explicitly stated like there was no statement of erica was the first female vj like they don't but so but then i had conversations with people in the know like private conversations because i've been at a bunch of these events lately and i i realize it is implied like i've turned around on this it absolutely is implied that erica is the first woman vj and i'm glad that you're standing up for a fact real quick side story is that i saw in this documentary that the Barenaked Ladies made their television debut on Speaker's Corner and I

went to Twitter. I don't call it X either, Catherine. It's Twitter for me. But I went to Twitter and just tweeted like a little tweet about basically the doc says this. The fact is the Barenaked Ladies make their television debut on YTV so at the end of 1990

and then that Speaker's Corner clip is in 1991. Like, it's like, no, the fact is, this is not their first television appearance. And then I wrote a little thing and an unnamed person suggested I was an arsonist. And I'm here to say on the record, Catherine, I didn't, I didn't start the fire. Okay. Shout out to Billy Joel. I didn't start the fire. I just was pointing out there's a mistruth in the doc. And I'm glad you're just pointing out that you are actually the first woman VJ in much music history. Yeah.

I don't know about any other, there's lots of omissions in the documentary. And that, and, and that was, you know, a little fact that was not quite true um so yeah and i think it's good to to call these things out especially especially my you know my time there

um was important and it was important to women and it was important to um you know broadcasting history and and they just sort of, you know, slipped it by. They also didn't mention Kim Clark Champness. He should have been on there. But yeah, that's equally irksome because of how important he was to my music. And he's another FOTM. And I heard Kim Clark Champness wasn't even invited to the 299 Queen Street West documentary. Well, I wasn't either. I invited

myself. And I'm really, really glad I did. I mean, I came up to support, to support Erica, to support the film, and it was just so surprising to be there and to just be

completely... It hurt, right? I can imagine it hurt to hear you tell the story. Like it must have hurt. It was so, it was very hurtful. As I said, I am so grateful that I had a really great week before and that I'm on antidepressants because I think if I was not as in a great space as I am now,

it would have hurt even more. I would have been even more upset. But as I say, this isn't, it's not the first time I've been screwed over, but this was one of the biggest times. It's one of the most shocking, you know, shocking things that I've experienced. And especially being in that room with all these people.

And it's like, wow, they are not even going to say that I've experienced and especially being in that room with all these people and it's like wow they are not even going to say that I'm here like they're like they're just going to ignore that I even existed it was very strange as I said very twilight zoney and um you know I haven't I am going to be writing Sean and asking him what what's the thinking i mean i get that you don't want to spend a lot of time on it but why would you just you know diss women like that to see i've got to know sean a little bit because he came over and we've had a correspondence since then and it turns out i produce a show for humble and fred and i found out he's very good friends with fred patterson's son like and i found out we're connected in all these interesting ways. But I can tell you, as you know, Sean's like in his 30s. So Sean Menard is relying on consultants and, you know, creative people to advise him as to what are the key cogs in this wheel.

Because there's no way, there's no way he knows your career at MuchMusic. So he surrounds himself with the subject matter experts who advise him. I highly doubt in my heart of hearts that Sean Menard is being misogynist. I think it's more of telling a story in this time period. And it's more convenient to just build up Erica as the big character. And you are sort of distract or detract from that myth building right and i'm i'm sure that's that's what he uh you know why he did it but it's also if it's a documentary i know there's there's things that you shouldn't leave out no matter how

different they are from your storyline i mean it just it just, it didn't have to be, it could just have been 30 seconds, you know, 20 seconds. I don't know. That Puff Daddy piece at Woodstock 99 didn't have to be as long as it was. He didn't actually say anything of interest or substance. It was more like, oh, look. There was a few things that could have been cut a little bit.

Yes, absolutely. And I understand he's trying to market it so it will make money in the States. I get that. And I understand he's trying to market it so it will make money in the States. I get that. And he's a really good filmmaker. I'm not taking anything away from him. Oh, we had a good time, right? It was a very enjoyable film.

A nostalgic romp, and it's fun to revisit all that. But it definitely, you and I, maybe we know too much. It definitely seems like this is much music for an American audience. You guys didn't see this because you had your much music, but look what was going on in Canada. And it's like, wow. So you do get a lot of, I would say you get a lot of long stretches of backstreet boys and NSYNC and,

uh, uh, Britney Spears and, uh, who spice girls. I'm like, what are their names again? Oh yeah.

The spice girls. But you know, so I think, like, I think Sean made choices. And, you know, he got a, you know, he had a lot of choices to make. And then at the end of the day, he has himself a documentary that got a round of applause at Roy Thompson Hall. And I've got mad respect for, he made something. Oh, yeah. He made it, and it's a really enjoyable film. It really, as I said, it captures the insanity and, you know, the ridiculousness.

I posted something on Instagram. I found a clip of me doing a throw, and JD is juggling in the background. And it's hilarious I mean it just really shows what it was like there the phones are ringing people are walking by in front of you it was it was crazy but it was it was fun and brilliant and uh and uh yeah I I I certainly wished I could have been included in the documentary or was my friend uh James Foster who is David's one of David's many sisters, she's a very good friend of mine, she goes,

this deserves a re-edit. It's going to be on Crave soon, and that's where thousands and thousands of Canadians are going to check out this nostalgic romp and remember fondly much music. It would be nice if there could be a little edit, just maybe

a little edit where maybe Erica references the fact that Catherine McClanahan was the first woman VJ and Erica was excited to be the next one sort of deal. Like just, you know, a little. Well, you know, and she did say to me that she was going to say, you know, say that post stuff. And I hope she does. She said that she's going to mention

me at screenings i hope she does i don't know whether that will happen or not but um you know it to me it's just this this is a real not only a slight it was a slap in the face and um you know it would be nice if they could uh if they could correct it somehow. I know. It's not too late, but now I'm picturing like, you know, pop-up video. It's going to be like, here's the dog,

little pop-ups, like fact checks and fun fags. And oh, did you know Catherine McClanahan was the first woman VJ at Much Music and blah, blah, blah. Okay, so I'm sorry you were hurt by this. I'm glad you're here

to just at least anyone who's listening to Toronto Mike knows that you are the first woman, Vijay, and I'm glad you're doing this. You mentioned David Foster's name. So I'm about to ask you about one of the great David Foster projects that I absolutely love talking about. But first, I found an article. I don't know where it's from.

It says romantic and frantic. And it has your quotes from you after you were let go. And it's very similar to what you just said, but I'm just going to read. This is what you said. You said too blonde, too wasp and too old. He also said I was really an actress and lacked credibility in the rock

world. So this is just an interesting at the time when they talk about you being let go from much music they've got these quotes so your your story remains consistent but it's interesting to me i guess the difference between you and erica is erica is younger and i guess she's less waspy but i you know obviously she is uh also a white woman but not as waspy and maybe not quite as old as you. But not far off. You're only at a few years difference.

Right. And as I said, I was 26 at the time. Who knew I was too old at 26? Of course, the guys were all older. Christopher is like, what, 10 years older than me? It's like, okay, guys can be older, but women can't know they're it's like okay guys can be older but women can't again you know it was just it was an excuse uh i guess and and you know i guess moses is erica's uncle right she's uh okay i was gonna i was gonna ask you well let's get this right though

i don't believe this is a blood uncle. I believe Erica's mother was very, very close to Moses and his partner, Marilyn. Like I think they're uncle-esque. Well, isn't, isn't she Marilyn's sister's daughter? I don't think they're sisters.

I think they were BFFs. We need, you know, we need Erica. I've had her on. Maybe I asked her this when she was young. We have to ask about this. I was told that she was, she's Marilynland's sister's daughter so maryland's her aunt anyway as i said okay you know what you might know better than career she she did it and i i give her kudos

for that i take nothing away from her we get a job how we get a job right well i'll say this if you had a connection which she clearly did that would get her the receptionist job uh that gets you in the building her hustle and you know her work and hustle gets her on the air and the fact that she was on the air so long and so beloved etc you know that you know that takes more than just some you know getting the door open so i give her full credit but i do too i am holding a picture because okay so let me explain the photo because most people are just hearing us now and then i'm going to ask you about this gentleman but uh uh basically sammy cone the drummer for the watchman came over and he was on the show with the lead singer of the watchman danny graves big fans of the show sammy listens to every episode

and sammy uh sent me gave me a picture of Brian Linehan because he wants me to know Brian Linehan would be proud of me. And the sentiment there is that Brian's a bit of a mentor that didn't mentor me. So like sort of somebody I aspire to be in my research and my homework. I like to make sure I spend a lot of time doing research before I talk to somebody like you. And I really admired the way he conducted an interview. You, Catherine, knew Brian, worked with him at 99 Queen Street East. What can you share with me about Brian Linehan? I loved Brian.

He was just one of my favorite, favorite people in the building um we didn't get to hang out a lot but when we did it was always we were all very excited to see each other we always gave each other a hug and a kiss we'd have a quick a quick um you know a quick chat wherever we were it was always great to go to you know building functions where we could hang longer and you know but i just i loved him as a person he was just one of those people that, you know, you just feel like you've known forever and, and you just hit it off. Also, he was such a consummate professional, just one of the best, one of the greatest interviewers ever, ever, ever. his memorial service that I was there. I'm trying to remember where it was, but at one point, I was sitting next to Joan Rivers. We were just in this hallway sitting together, and I told her how much I loved Brian and, it was so devastating that he had passed.

And she told me that he was one of her best friends. And that when her husband Edgar committed suicide, Brian was the first person that she called, because his partner had committed suicide. And so they were, you know, kindred spirits in this horrible, horrible bond. And we just, I had this lovely, lovely moment, probably about 10-15 minutes just chatting with Joan Rivers, who was just one of the nicest, nicest people. And she loved him so much. And I didn't know that she had called him first. I think she wound up staying with him for a few weeks. And she said she could never have gotten through it without Brian Linehan. Wow.

Okay, I'm glad you shared that story because Brian, sadly, is never going to be on Toronto Mic'd and we lost him far too soon. And it's funny that you and Michael Williams both just light up when you talk about Brian. What did Michael Williams tell me? Because I noticed you called him Mike Williams. He told me never call him Mike.

He says it's only Michael, but maybe you're allowed to call him Mike. I'm not allowed to call him Mike, only you can do that. But he did say that Brian was his favorite person when he was working at 99 Queen East. He was just a lovely, lovely, beautiful energy, open, kind, from the heart man. He was just lovely every time you saw him. And yeah, it's so sad that he's not with us. But he's listening now. He's listening now. He's listening. And what he wants to hear is he wants to hear about something that happened a couple of weeks before you started at Much Music.

And a little background here is that I have literally done a two and a half hour episode deep dive into Tears Are Not Enough. Like I have. And every time, in fact, I have later this week, I'm talking to Randy Backman and I got to find out why he wasn't there. If you know why, tell me. But what can you tell me about the recording of tears are not enough i can because i was there and i was one of the few i mean i was the only person there that probably shouldn't have been there but uh paul um farberman got me in and actually put me to work um i was you know running around getting

waters and coffees and all that stuff and the other thing that i did was they had a um they had a sweatshirt made tears are not enough on one side we can bridge the distance on the other uh looks like one of those wham you know a big white with big black lettering right right of course there were two sweatshirts made and they only wanted me to get one of them signed by everybody so i got um i i met i wound up meeting everyone which was such a joy and got them to sign and um and uh so that was that was pretty great do you remember anything anything you can remember from that day that might be beyond the ordinary? I know there's a documentary film and we kind of hear, you know, in fact, you know, you mentioned that you have a relationship with David Foster that we can touch on after this. But David Foster is telling Neil Young to get into Key and Young says something like, that's like my sound man. Like, what did you witness uh during this uh

there's a lot of things you know there were um comedians that were there that uh that david just threw in at the end um just yeah get in there get in there um it was really um was it richard manuel he came really late and looked really he he was, he was really out of it, like out of it, out of it. I don't know what was wrong with him, but he may have been sick. I don't know. Oh, one, the funny thing was that there were all these press outside, right? Clamoring. And I went out at one point and everyone was like, and I can't remember, I don't, maybe it was Denise. I can't remember that. But there was a couple of people from Much there.

And they were like, what are you doing here? I said, I'm helping. I'm helping out. Wow. And so they really wanted people to come out and give interviews. And they were like, can you get John Candy? Can you get John Candy? I said, I can ask him.

I don't know when he'll come out, but I'll ask him. And so I did. I went up to him and I out, but I'll ask him. And so I did. I went up to him and I said, you know, there's a whole bunch of people out there that would love if you just went out and said hi. And so he did because he was just the greatest guy ever. I was going to say, speaking of great Canadians, we lost too soon. Put John Candy at the top of that list. Yeah, John Candy. He was so great.

And so, yeah, it was fun to be there and to be amongst Canadian musical royalty. And that was just one of the best days of my life. And I have the extra sweatshirt that was never signed. I have the original. And I was thinking it would be really great if I could get people that are still alive to sign it. And maybe auction it off for charity i don't know i'm i'm open if anybody wants to uh get a hold of me for that better hurry we're losing them quickly now you know gordon lightfoot's passed away i know i had tickets to see him in la and

it kept getting postponed postponed and then he passed i was so bummed to not see him here yeah but yeah it was it was it was such a magical day. And that recording was, you know, a piece of history. And I was so thrilled to be there. Amazing. So did you see, was it Mark Holmes from Platinum Blonde who showed up in the limo? I used to go out with a German guy

and he called them Platinium Blonde. I loved how he said Platinium Blonde. I used to hang out with a German guy and he called them Platinium Blonde. I loved how he said Platinium Blonde. I used to hang out with Mark back in the day. I don't remember him showing up in a limo because I was probably inside already. Well, Dan Hill told me. So Dan Hill's been on the program and he told me maybe Mark Holmes wasn't behaving the way you should behave for a uh you know a recording for famine relief in africa i can't remember that part so i don't know what to say um but mark was a lot of fun back in the day um and i just saw him on the uh the canadian um uh the rock and roll hall i was in the room with

him on friday on was that friday or thursday or Thursday Thursday Thursday yeah absolutely I was there on the red carpet covering that event I loved it I love seeing these people it's like oh my god I haven't seen them in almost 40 years and I was like is that Mark oh my god it's Mark hi Mark if you're listening I'm sorry I didn't get to see you hopefully next time I love it so David Foster like how do you know him because uh I have in my notes here that you presented David Foster with his very first Juno Award back in 85. I did. It was the Juno presentation. And I had just finished working at Much.

And I was now working at CBC on a show called Romantic Rock. And they had me present with John Zyrowski. We were the first presenters of the show. And we were introduced by Andrea Martin and Martin Short, which was fun. And John Zyrowski was so nervous. He's a Canadian filmmaker. He did he won an Oscar in a documentary he made years ago. But yeah, so David Foster, that was his first Juno and I got to present it to him. So I've known him since 1985 and I'm really good friends with his sister, James. Now I met her years later in Los Angeles. But I always, I love running into David because it's, you know, we have this history and he's great and he's happy and doing well, obviously.

And I'm very thrilled for him. And you're still tight with Christopher Ward, right? Yes. Yes, absolutely. Actually, me and James and Christopher, we have our Zoom calls, our regular Zoom calls. And it's great. And he lives here a bunch of the time. So I get to see him and I just, I love Christopher. He's great. And he lives here a bunch of the time. So I get to see him and I just I love Christopher. He's great.

Wild. Now, he was noticeably absent from the documentary, Christopher, but he did. He was shown in clips. He and J.D. were both shown in clips. Oh, for sure. Archival footage. Yes, of course. Yeah. But no, not interviewed. Well, you can't. You can't. You know, they obviously were able to make the doc by cutting out Catherine McLenahan, but you cannot make that doc and cut out Christopher Ward, right? Well, that would be sacrilegious, I think. Christopher is a genius, and his contribution to Munch and also the stuff he did on City as well is invaluable. Yeah, you know, stuff he did on city as well uh is invaluable yeah you know you

couldn't do it without well then you couldn't show uh mike myers doing uh wayne campbell before wayne's world before saturday night live right right exactly great footage there great footage okay yeah so much fun so katherine uh we're gonna blitz through i want to know a little bit more about you since 1980 so you mentioned you went on, what was the show called? Romantic. Romantic Rock. It was a CBC. We only did one season.

It was 13 episodes. And it was, you know, slower, romantic stuff, you know, when you come home and you want to just relax or you want to, you know, don't relax in the bedroom, whatever. I had a lot of guys from prison writing me. That was fun. I guess they like romantic rock in prisons. Well, there's a lot of lonely nights there, I think, for sure. I think so. So, but do I, am I right that you end up on the radio in New York City? I think so. So, but do I, am I right that you end up on the radio in New York city?

I did. I did a morning, a morning radio show on WDRE. This was great. How I got the job, Warren Cosford. Hi, Warren. He was, you know, he worked at Chum. He was a big mucky mucking Chum for many years and he'd always wanted me to do radio. And I never wanted to do radio, always wanted me to do radio and I never wanted to do radio, which I'll tell you why later. I just didn't want to do it. I thought people in it were kind of sleazy in the business. And but when I was living in New York, after I moved away from Toronto, and I heard that he was managing the station at WGRE and they were looking for a morning team. They wanted a male-female morning team. And I called him up and I said, hey, hey, I hear you're looking for a

morning person. He goes, yeah, you want the job? And I went, yeah. And that's how I got it. I think a lot of people at 299 Queen Street and before that 99 Queen East would have like given their right arm to get a radio gig in New York City. Oh, hell yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it was great. And I, you know, at that time I was an illegal immigrant. And so they they got me a work permit and it took them three months and they they got it for me. And and and it was it was fun. It was it was a fun job. I was the cat. We were Danny and the cat. I was the cat. So how long did you do this in New York City?

I was there for about, I don't know, it was like five months, and the deal was after three months, I was supposed to get a contract and a raise. So we were going to see whether they liked me, whether I liked them. So after three months, crickets, and I'm like, hmm, I'd always have an agent, right? I've never had to deal with anything myself. And I'm very polite Canadian. So I went into Warren's office and said, Hey, I'm supposed to get a raise and a contract. And then he goes, oh, yeah, yeah, let me ask the owners. And so another week went by, and I went in again. And I don't know if I was talking to Warren or the other man.

That was one of the guys there. I can't remember. And he goes, oh, no, I'm sorry. No, you know, we can't afford to give you a raise and a contract. We just put in there and we just put in a new air conditioning system and we can't afford it. And I was like, I don't think the air conditioning system should have anything to do with me getting a contract or a raise. And there were some other things there that were like whenever we would be sponsoring a concert the guy uh who would hand out the tickets would hand them out to all the secretaries that worked

there and i could never get a ticket to go see the shows that we're promoting and i'm talking about on the air wow so that was a little annoying anyway, it went, I never got the contract, I never got the raise. And then my boyfriend, Bill Fagerbakke at the time, got a show out in Los Angeles, and he wanted me to move with him. here. I don't have, I'm not making enough money because I was living in Manhattan and working in Long Island. So it was getting up at four in the morning, getting a taxi to go to Penn Station, changing trains in Jamaica, getting a train to Long Island. And then if there was no cabs or the gal doing traffic wasn't there, I was hitchhiking in the dark in the middle of trying to get to the radio station. But, and then, so Bill got a job in Los Angeles. And so I thought, well, I want to go, I want to do that. I want to move out with him. And so I gave them a week's notice. And as soon as I walked in, I said, I'm sorry, next Friday is

going to be my last day. And they said, oh, would you want more money? Oh, it like hit me, it hit me like a ton of, Oh, that's how you do it. Oh, I'm so stupid. I said, Well, yeah, I did, you know, several weeks ago when I said I would like a raise. And you didn't give me one. So I said, No, it's too late. We're moving. And they were freaked out. They were they were totally freaked out, very upset were totally freaked out very upset all right i have a question about this uh this has moved to la so this is your at the time this was your boyfriend bill yes okay was this show coach yes okay that's a big show it was a big show and it was um a mid-season replacement for the first couple of years so they didn't do a whole season they would do

like a half a season and um they wound up uh it wound up running for nine years becoming a major you know top 10 show for abc it had 14 different time slots because they kept moving it in if a show would fail they'd bring coach in and the numbers would go back up. And then it was an amazing time. We'll put it that way. All right. So before we just close the chapter, I know you guys are no longer together. And I know how awkward that can be. But can I just play a clip and tie it to your ex-husband, Bill, that was in coach?

So can I play a little clip here? My husband? Yes, go ahead. Husband. I like that. I have a was wife, but I don't think it works as well as a husband. bill that was in coach so can i play a little clip here my husband yes go ahead husband i like that okay i have a i have a was wife but i don't think it works as well as it was okay all right so here's a few moments of this nothing quite like the joy of sandcastling hey buddy how you doing over there everything's dandy in patrick's kingdom oh a structure like that can't protect the king and his subjects.

Here, let me help you. First, you should start all over. What are you doing? You destroyed my castle. I'm just trying to help, buddy. I don't need any help. Here are those architectural plans you requested. So this, of course, is SpongeBob SquarePants.

And the voice we should be focusing on is that of Patrick Starr. Yep. Yep, the big dumb guy. That's him. So hold on. I'm going to pause for a moment because I do like the fun facts. And then we'll move on to how you're connected to an FOTM. But you were married to the voice of Patrick Starr from SpongeBob SquarePants.

I was. I slept with the starfish. Wow. You know, it would be funny when people would run into me, whether it was when Bill was on coach or when he was on coach, people go, does he really talk like that? Because he spoke like that on coach too. The dumb guy.

I would say, no, but he is that stupid. And people go, oh! And I go, it's a joke. It's comedy. I'm joking. He's actually really, really smart. We are friends, which is I'm very grateful. He broke my heart, but I'm okay now.

And I'm ready for dating again after 12 years. Okay, so you're eligible? I'm eligible. Yes, and ready. I'm ready, ready for dating again. So you're, uh, you're eligible. I'm eligible. Yes, I am. All right. Let me make it a little more awkward and ask you about another X. Okay. So. Okay. Okay. Your, how many times have you been married, Catherine? That's a very personal question, but how many times?

Twice. Okay. So one is Patrick Starr. I just think that's funny to say that sentence okay okay yeah you were married to Patrick Starr but you're also you were married to an FOTM is that correct an FOTM friend of Toronto yes I was married to Eugene Volaitis very briefly and we got married in 1982. And, you know, we had been on and off for many years, but I was 23, he was 25. We were just kids. And we didn't have any kids, but we had, you know, we had a fun few years together, but it was just too young. So we split up, but we're still good friends. He's a, I love Eugene. He's been so supportive of me through this, as has Paul, my Paul Farberman.

It's been really great to hear from people that, you know, I love dearly and they're supportive and that's been great. Okay, again, so we don't bury the lead. You were married to, yeah, I know you call him Eugene, but we know him as Gene from Jesse and Gene. This is pre Jesse and Gene though. So you were no longer married when Jesse Dillon enters Gene's life. Yes. That was afterwards. Cause he was doing the morning, he was doing the news on Q107 and yeah, Jesse and Gene was after me.

Interesting. I find this fascinating. Maybe I need to, you know, raise my bar of fun facts. But I think it's a fun fact that you were married to Patrick Starr and Gene from Jesse and Gene. And I'm glad you get along with both of these guys now. That's cool. Yes, yes. Well, it's much better to get along than not get along, you of these guys now that's uh cool yes yes well it's much much better to get along than not get along you know in the grand scheme of things um but yeah i mean we're all nice people so yeah no reason no reason we can't get along can i play a little bit of music and ask you about this absolutely okay let's listen to this listen to this.

Ah. When marimba rhythms start to play, dance with me, make me sway. Like a lazy ocean hugs the shore, Hold me close, sway me more. Like a flower bending in the breeze, bend with me, sway with ease. When we dance, you have a way with me. Stay with me, sway with me. Other dancers may be on the floor, dear but my eyes will see only you.

Only you have that magic technique. When we sway I go wing. I can hear the sound of violin. Catherine you can sing. I can. I can. I can.

I can tell where that was shot. Yes, I have a YouTube channel that has a lot of my stuff up from a few years ago. And I've decided I'm going to do an album next year because I have so many people, when are you doing an album? When are you doing an album? So it's like, okay, all alright, I'll do one next year. So if people want to hear you singing American Songbook Standards,

they can go to youtube.com slash Catherine McLenahan. Yes, it's all there. It is there, my singing. And there's another thing on YouTube that I have, I don't know if you know about it,

I created a show, co-created a show with Jennifer Edwards called Two Blondes Don't Make a Right. And we have about 15 episodes up on YouTube under official to the number two, blondes don't make a right, all one word, no apostrophe and don't. And those are fun. Yeah, I checked out the synchronized swimming episode. That's the best one. I mean, that was one of the funniest ones. Did you laugh? Yeah, no, no, you're a talented woman, multi talented woman. And here just this is a wild mind blow, I think as well. There's so many mind blows in this episode, but you have been a volunteer with the L.A. Sheriff's Department for over 30 years. Yes, I have. Okay, I need to hear this

story. Like, that's, like, I didn't even know they had volunteers of the L.A. Sheriff's Department. Like, tell me about this. Yeah, so I've been a member of our local arson watch for over 30 years. I live in the Santa Monica Mountains, and it's a very high risk fire area. And so on high risk red flag days, which are really hot and windy days, we have patrols that go out around the surrounding areas. And I used to do that a lot, but now I am an arson watch base station operator. So I'm the one that gets the hourly calls. And we're just like the eyes and ears of the fire department if there's a car off to the side of the road in the middle of nowhere we'll note the time the license plate

just in case there's any incident of arson and we have something everything's destroyed at the end of the day we don't you know we're not harassing people or anything but um yeah so i've been uh i have been i'm a nerdy volunteer uh with Sheriff's Department. I'm also my Neighborhood Network Coordinator for the Topanga Coalition for Emergency Preparedness. I was working on the emergency preparedness book that we have here in Topanga. That was the first, it was like the first non-city, what am I trying to think of the word and I can't, non, I'll think of it in a minute when I'm trying not to think of it, but we had an emergency preparedness guide that we put out several years ago that has lots of information for people and what to do that live here when

there's an emergency, fire, you know, earthquake, flood, whatever. It's ironic because I was accused of being an arsonist oh you were yes right well no you're not they just don't want to hear certain facts and they don't want you to make waves but I think we're here to make waves the fire's there if I blow a little oxygen on it it's just shining a light on something that deserves to be I have arson Watch signs on.

We put them on our cars. Okay. Yeah, so I wanted to do this because I had a lot of time. I was a stay-at-home mom, and I thought I wanted to help my community. Good for you. That's one of the things I volunteer with, yeah. And you're a little bit of a nerd, so it scratches that itch. Sure, yeah.

Nerd. Does Moses know you're a nerd? I'm going to tell Moses. Okay. Tell Moses I'm a nerd. I want to close. I'm not closing yet, but I want to close with the not so young and the breastless. But just before that, I have to ask you about a term you've used to describe yourself.

And the term is claircognizance. Yes, claircognizance. Okay, so tell me what the heck that means. I can barely say it. And then how does it apply to you? So, the first time I was aware of this was in uh the early 80s i was um you know i was living in toronto but i was visiting a friend in santa monica that i studied theater with in uh in new york and in london and she lived in santa monica and i was staying at her place. And one day she was,

had to go to work and I was going to go visit Michael Damien who lived in Calabasas. I knew him through Paul because he had a record at CBS music in Canada. Dream on. So, so Michael Damien was one of the only two people I knew in LA at the time. So I got out my handy Thomas guide and I looked at, I saw, Oh, Topanga Canyon Boulevard. I can take this and go right up to Calabasas.

So as I'm driving through the canyon in 1980, I don't know, three, I got this overwhelming weird feeling at the beginning. I'm driving like, why this is so familiar? Why is this so familiar? And then I get to the center of town and I had a download of knowledge that I was going to live here someday. It wasn't a premonition. It wasn't who I think. It was an absolute knowledge that I was going to live in Topanga. And it was so bizarre because I'm a Canadian. I had no intention of living here. So, you know know it was years later when when Bill and I were looking for a house to buy and I said there's a place called Topanga I'm supposed to live here and we we bought the first house we saw and we lived in that one for four years and then

moved into this house where I've been for it'll be 30 years in April I've been in this house. And so, and I've had it several times, like before the fire that we had in 93, I was living in, we were living in Old Canyon and I was pregnant with my daughter, Carson. And I'd read an article about our arson watch that I'm a member of. They had an article in the LA Times and it had said that there'd never been a fire. And then 10 years, the arson watch had been going and there'd been three fires set in Laguna the week before. And I just knew some asshole was going to start a fire. So I packed up all the videotapes, all the photo albums. I had them in boxes by the front door three days before the fire hit.

And I was going to take a nap that morning and the voice in my head says look out the window and I went okay and I looked out the window and I saw it was started half a mile from my house so I called I called 9-1-1 and they said they just gotten a call so I think I was the second fire uh second call in for that fire and um you know packed up everything wound up you know evacuating for five days we stayed at jerry and shirley van dyke's guest house with our with my baby coach jerry was in coach absolutely that's why this was during that time um and that was that was bizarre you know it was bizarre because it was the first major fire um in a long time in in our area

luckily our house was not was not um you know burnt down um there was and and then a few months later we had the uh earthquake in january and i knew that we were going to get an earthquake because there were three i felt three in santa mon the week before. And so I made sure I got a lot of supplies. I got food, I got water. And there was a plant that was up on a overlook that we had from the top floor into the living room and it was too heavy. I couldn't lift it because I was, you know, seven months pregnant. And I asked Bill to move it three times and he didn't.

And that was the biggest mess I cleaned up that smashed up but it i i knew three days before again that we were going to have the earthquake so um and i knew barack obama was going to be president four years before he was because i saw him speak at a at a fundraiser at bergamot station and i had goosebumps and i'm like he's going to be president he's going to be president and i came home and i told Bill, I said, oh my god, I've just seen our first black president. His name's Barack Obama. He goes, who? I said, Barack Obama. He's going to be president. He's going to be president. So there's certain things that I know, and you can Google it. I mean, we all have psychic abilities. I don't know why I

have this one, and I mean, it's very, abilities. Um, I don't know why I have this one and it's, and I mean, it's very, very strong when it happens. But has there ever been a moment where you sense something that was going to happen, but it just never did happen? Like, are there, are you just cherry picking the times it happened or are there times when it doesn't happen? When I've had this, it's been absolute knowledge. Is there anything you're sitting on right now?

Like anything that you know is about to happen, you can tell me about. Is there anything you're sitting on right now? Like anything that you know is about to happen, you can tell me about. Um, I don't know specifically. I know, I know good things are coming to me.

I don't know what they are yet, but I have that feeling. Well, you're an FOTM and if you were here and you're not here, but I'm just going to let you know that if you were here, Catherine, I would have a delicious lasagna for you from Palma Pasta. Oh my God. I'm coming back. I know.

Next time you're in town, get over here. Because you've met so many famous musicians. I would have you back just to play music from musicians you've interacted with, like Barbra Streisand. I mean, we could do a whole episode just on these. I was paid to sing for Barbra Streisand. She was one of 25 people at a luncheon. I happen to know that. I have what you have.

I knew that. That's a good one. My Joe Wall story is good. My Martin Short story is funny. Honestly, you'll be back in Toronto at some point, right? I will. When you are back,

come over. We kick out these songs, and we talk about all these celebrity interactions, and then I'll give you, you ready for this? I'll give you a wireless speaker from Moneris, so you can listen to Yes, We Are Open, the award-winning podcast from Moneris hosted by FOTM Al Grego.

It will inspire you, Catherine. Thank you. Do you drink? I get the feeling like maybe you don't. I'm going to find out right now in real time. Do you drink beer? I don't drink beer. I didn't think so. Well, no, that's not true. I don't drink a lot of things.

I like wine. Okay, you know what I'm thinking? So I'm thinking Great Lakes Brewery. It's mainly beer, but they make a wonderful vodka soda. I'll get a vodka soda from Great Lakes beerwery. It's mainly beer, but they make a wonderful vodka soda. I'll get a vodka soda from Great Lakes beer for you. Perfect. Thank you, Great Lakes.

And I'll have something, a measuring tape from Ridley Funeral Home. I'll make sure I have that for you as well. Oh, my God. My life will be complete. So here, actually, since I'm on a roll here here katherine i'm just going to shout out recycle my electronics.ca because that's where you go to find out where you can drop off your old electronics and old tech so it can be properly recycled and of course this is october halloween is at the end of the month pumpkins after dark is an amazing event that's in Milton, Ontario. You can save 15% right now on your tickets to Pumpkins After Dark

with the promo code TOMIKE15. And the Advantage Investor Podcast from Raymond James Canada is now available wherever you get your podcasts. This is from Raymond James Canada, of course, and you can get valuable perspective for Canadian investors who want to remain knowledgeable, informed, and focused on long-term success. It's a great podcast on finances. Now you're good to go. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home.

Let me hear this story that you're working on. Maybe it's a solo show. It's called The Not So Young and the Breastless. I'm interested in the show, but of course, I'm very interested in what inspired you to do this and what prompted it and how you're feeling. Well, I feel great. I got breast cancer in 2007. And it was, you know, obviously a very sobering time when you get that diagnosis. But I went into the very holistic and I completely changed my diet and lifestyle. I shrank my tumors to less than a third of what they were. But I was bullied by my doctors into

getting a double mastectomy. That was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life because I knew I had shrunk my tumors. I have photos to prove it. But they are very, very much, you know, especially back then, surgery. They make money too. The doctors make money on whatever surgeries they get if you get them on chemo and all this stuff. So my show is about um my experience with that also how my life changed obviously um it's uh you know my

my journey through breast cancer divorce and spiritual enlightenment i think one of the uh the old time worst segues in the history of tor Mike. And this is absolutely me shouting out Ridley funeral home before talking to you about your battle with breast cancer. Blessedly I'm, I'm still here and I live to tell the tale. And there's a lot of women that have, you know, breast cancer stories that are similar to mine with the,

with what the medical community wants you to do. And so that's, that's, that's a part of the show and it's a musical. So the show is a feel good show. Like this is a feel good solution. Get it. Oh yeah. Okay. No, that's a, that's very clever. Okay. I always, I knew you were sharp from the minute we started to zoom actually, but, so did I hear you right that, uh, you regret the double

mastectomy that maybe this was yeah because um i i i i didn't need it i don't think i needed it but they bullied me what if you have what if it's in your lymph nodes you've got daughters you've got it you know it's not going to go away on its own it's like i know i'm changing everything you can see how much i've shrunk my tumors. It's going away because of what I'm doing to it. But, you know, they're all in the Western, you know, slash and burn kind of mentality. No, it's interesting because very recently, and this is another homework assignment for you, Catherine, you can go listen to Kim McDonald. She's been on the Weather Network here in Canada for 25 years, but she had the double mastectomy and she talks about the

decision and everything. And it was quite an interesting discussion about that. But it's, so it sounds like you, you miss your breasts. Yeah. You kind of do when you have them. It's like, would you miss a part of your anatomy if it was chopped off? Yeah. So yeah, it's not, and the implants, they're not the same, you know, they're it's it's they're cold. They're right under the muscle. They don't move. They're very, very different. It's like they're placeholders. And I'm sure that they they do better surgeries now than they did, you know, in 2007. Do you think you would have been as bullied with our medical system in Canada or do you think this is a product of the privatization? I don't know. I honestly don't know.

But, you know, at that point, you know, my marriage was breaking down and I was very depressed and it was, you know, as time went on, I just got more and more depressed. And so I just said, okay, fine. But, yeah, it was a big mistake that I made. And I didn't appreciate the doctors not, just not, you know, appreciating what I was doing. just not you know appreciating what i was doing and um you know when i showed them the pictures of the two mris and the difference like that and the one they just couldn't understand well what are you doing i said i'm told you what i'm doing no milk no dairy no sugar no coffee no caffeine

you know sound healing light healing shamanic journeying i did everything and they shrank so it was like i i cured my cancer but they wanted to get that surgery in there. So anyway. Glad you're talking about this because, you know, you don't hear this side of the coin very often. No, we don't. And I want women to go with their guts. You've got to go with whatever feels right for you. That's what you should do because your higher self knows.

knows and um you know it was it was very interesting time too because people people are like oh you know you get do the surgery right away do like they all have their opinions and they're going to let you know what you should do with your body you know um and there's you know there's seven or eight different kinds of breast cancer like you don't know this stuff until you get it, you know? So anyway, it was, it was, it was, it was a journey. I'm glad I'm on this side of it now. Well, I'm glad you're feeling so good. And I'm glad we got to meet, even though I was a week away from meeting you in person,

we were probably 10 feet away from each other for a chunk of that night and we just didn't even know it. But I'm glad I got to learn more about your career and we got to set the record straight that Catherine McClanahan is the first woman VJ in much music history. And you know what they say about,

they say flags fly forever. No matter what happens with the Toronto Raptors, we were always the 2019 Raptor NBA champions and you forever will be the first female VJ in much music history thank you so much Mike and thank you so much for having me this has been so much fun chatting with you quick question though did you get feedback from Barbara Streisand when you performed in front of her. Oh yeah, she loved us. We were singing in an acapella trio. Oh my gosh.

She was great. She did love us. Thank God. And Joan Collins was in the crowd too, right? She was. There were 25 women there. And Joan, who looks as fabulous as ever. Oh, here's the funny thing. We had no material 45 minutes before the gig.

No material. Yeah, don't bury the lead. That's amazing. So we were drastically trying to get material. We finally did, and thank God. Thank God. And that brings us to the end of our 1,337th show. You can follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Toronto Mike. Catherine, I know you're on Instagram and Twitter. Just remind us what your handles are to follow you. Yeah, it's Catherine McClanahan. It's my name. And I'm on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and all those fun things. If you're looking for Catherine, you can find her. And I have a website, but I am updating it

because it needs updating. And much love to those who make this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. That's Palma Pasta. That's Raymond James Canada. That's Great Lakes Brewery. That's Palma Pasta. That's Raymond James Canada. That's Mineris. That's Recycle My Electronics. That's Pumpkins After Dark.

And yes. That's Ridley Funeral Home. See you all. Thursday. When my special guest is Ed Keenan. From the Toronto Star. See you all then.