Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - CFNY-NOT?: Toronto Mike'd #933

Episode Date: October 18, 2021

In the inaugural episode of The Progressing Past of Modern Melodies, Toronto Mike, Brother Bill and Cam Gordon chat with special guest Ivar Hamilton about why some songs were played by CFNY and why some songs were left off the playlist.

Toronto Mic is brought to you by the Yes We Are Open podcast, a Moneris podcast production telling the stories of Canadian small businesses and their perseverance in the face of overwhelming adversity. Subscribe to this podcast at yesweareopenpodcast.com. Welcome to episode 933 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. ChefDrop. Access top chef and restaurant prepared meal kits shipped across Southern Ontario. Buy one, get one 50% off with the promo code F-O-T-M-B-O-G-O. McKay

CEO Forum. The highest impact and least time intensive peer group for over 1,200 CEOs, executives and business owners around the world. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos and decals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Ridley Funeral Home. pillars of the community since 1921, and Mike Majeski of Remax Specialists Majeski Group, who's ripping up the GTA real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com, and welcome to the inaugural episode of a new sub-series of Toronto Mic'd. We're calling it The Progressive Past of Modern Melodies. My esteemed co-hosts for these episodes,

which will drop out of the blue when you least expect it, are Neil Morrison, better known as Brother Bill, and Pandemic Friday's own Cam Gordon. We're titling this episode CFNY Not, and our very special guest is a man who was there during CFNY's Spirit of Radio era, Ivor Hamilton. Welcome, Ivor. Thanks very much for having me. It's a pleasure to join you guys.

When I got the Zoom invite for this, the first thing that came to mind for me was the title of this show. And you guys can fill me in, because when I saw the progressing past of Modern Melodies, I thought this might have been an outtake from Yes's Tales from Topographic Oceans or, you know, with a Roger Dean cover on it. So fill me in. Well, hey, this sounds like a job. I was going to say, let's go to the smartest man in the Zoom. And that, of course, would be Cam Gordon. Cam, do you want to handle this? I'm the smartest. I don't know. I feel like it was a few... I feel like it was partially an homage to the ongoing history of new music.

I think it was partially a manifestation of Toronto Mike's ego, which, you know, he can. He's something that's rolling around in his head. And yeah, beyond that that I'm not sure I feel like it's sort of like I feel like these podcasts are often they're sort of an academic exercise

because we go so deep on these topics that we need sort of a pretentious title just to capture the gravitas and the minutia of what we're talking about maybe you can get like Rick Wakeman or something to do some little bits for you guys to mix it up between segues of what we're talking about. Well, I think brother, brother can get like Rick Wakeman or something to, you know, do some little bits for you guys to,

you know, mix it up between, uh, segues and that, what have you. I think brother Bill will agree with me that you can remove that word partial that you use cam. I'm pretty sure we,

we simply took the title ongoing history and new music and thought about synonyms where we could say the same thing with different words. I didn't want to say it, but yeah, that that's pretty much exactly. That's the only reason. That is the reason, Ivor. We wanted to pay a little homage to Alan's show, The Ongoing History of New Music, and frankly knowing me, as long as you have any chance I get to borrow someone's idea and make it my own, I'm going to go for it. So that's

why we came up with that idea. And that's why the show is indeed called the progressing past of modern music. Is it music or is it melodies? I thought we went with music. Oh, you know what? Okay.

Well, I might, okay, we'll go with that. I think, I think I thought it was melodies and if it's music, that's cool too. But I think what we need to explain to I might, okay, we'll go with that. I think I thought it was Melodies, and if it's music, that's cool too. But I think what we need to explain to Ivor, Ivor, our very first guest in this new sub-series,

what exactly, and either of you can handle this one for Ivor, but what exactly do we mean by CFNY not? Because the title of this episode is CFNY Not. You take this one, Neil, and then I can just jump in on this. Okay. So CFNY Not, I guess the original concept for this program or this episode was to find out how music got added to the playlist, the regular rotation playlist at CFNY throughout the 70s, 80s, and 90s as well.

And I thought to myself, well, who better to bring in as a guest than the man who was the music director during the heyday of the CFNY era in the late 1970s and 1980s. And that, of course, is our guest today. And that's Universal Music's Ivor Hamilton. And Ivor, I know when we spoke on the phone briefly, you liked the idea because you had some interesting stories about how music meetings went down. I mean, traditionally, in the sense that I remember of music meetings, they were sort of a bunch of people gathered in a room. They looked at a piece of paper to see what other radio stations were adding music, and they decided whether or not it was worth their

time. I mean, this is the 1990s that I remember at the edge, but Ivor in the late 1970s and 80s, when I started at CFNY in the music department with you and Neil Mann, there was a different way of doing music meetings. And I thought it would be great if you would take the time to maybe share with us how it was done and some of the great stories that you have, I'm sure, maybe share with us how it was done and some of the great stories that you have, I'm sure, regarding some of the egos and personalities and situations in that small little room in 83 Kennedy Road, South Brampton. Well, I got to say that, I mean, I was there even before that at 340 Main Street North, the little yellow house, that's where I started back in, well, first of all, I started there after two internships, so one straight out of high school

when I was in the radio broadcasting course at Humber, and within the first two weeks, they said, well, we need some people at CFNY to go and tape, and that's put tape on the albums at the radio station because it was a complete disarray. And then I came back the following February, which would have been February of 78 on a music department internship. And that was Bruce Hayding. The late Bruce Hayding was the guy who was the music director at the time. And that was actually even before David Marsden got there. So I was interning in the music department at that point.

And in those very early days, it was really, really wide open. and what they called the foreground programming where, so there would be, you know, a, you know, a folk program, you know, a jazz program, a classical show, an indie show, an import show, there was a listener's choice. But what, what happened in those early days is that, you know, most of just about everything that came in, went into, it went into the library um you know bruce hayding would decide and then you know and then i was helping out with some things like that

but you know it was very early days it was you know every track on an album would be would be open to to be played and there was the occasional um you know there would be comments you know about the various tracks on the album that i would type up or bruce would type up put labels and you know not do not play this you know certain song after until after 3 p.m or or a particular song would be you know um not rated very well and um you know which was which is fine you know you think you'd like to use your good judgment on songs and try and pick the ones you think are gonna are gonna fly but we you know we out you know like any anything there's always a rebel or two on the staff so we would usually i would you know come in and see that like one of the jocks um would on purpose play the worst rated

songs on the album right he'd see you know, whatever wasn't rated properly. And then it would just, or rated as rated low. And they'd be like, that's what he was playing. Right. And I felt kind of felt at the time, he just did it to get under our skin, you know? So, so that was, you know, that was kind of, you know, really, you know, how, how would the very early days of, of, you know, CFNY, you know, that was kind of, you know, really, you know, how the very early days of, you know, CFNY, you know, went. And, you know, and I have memories of like, you know, the morning show and a couple of guys, they'd just bring records in from home and start playing them on the air too, right?

So there was a lot of, you know, it was very, you know, free form in those very, very early days. It sort of sounds like WKRP, the way that that show was based. It was kind of what CFNY was about, really, wasn't it? Well, I wouldn't say it was WKRP. I would say because, you know, I think there was a lot of sort of embellishment in WKRP, but I mean, I think that, you know,

some of the chaos might've been a little bit close to WKRP, but I think it really sort of like those very early days, which is sort of a hangover from the David Pritchard, Reiner Schwartz days is that, you know, it was, it was a very sort of free form, you know, attitude because it originally started, you know, CFNY, that it was broadcasting out of there was the other AM station down the road from three 40 main street. And before they got even,

even the very first power signal in the early 70s, early to mid-70s, they used to have all-night Andre, who used to go in, and he would do the evening show, and I think that's the only time they were on the air, but, you know, if you could only get it in Brampton, and that's how it kind of first started, but it was wonderful for it. I lived in Brampton at the time, and I was in high school, and all our buddies, we would talk about it because, you know, you could call in and get requests on the air. You could ask them for anything, and it would be on the air, whereas I think all of us who were in radio before, you know,

if you tried to call Chum AM or Chum FM back in the day and get a request on, you'd be waiting for two weeks or if you ever got it on, right? So CFNY, those early days, it was quite, you know, it was quite magical because you really got to hear what you wanted to hear. I have a question. Were there any restrictions at all with regards to like number of top 40 songs you could play or anything of that nature at all that any criteria like that you had to meet?

Well, I think that the the restrictions that um that we had were to do with the promise of performance right as that we had to have a um a finite number of unique tracks that were played over the week so so you know i think that we were at we weren't allowed to play any particular song. I think it was in those early days, I think it was 10 times a week. That was the absolute most you could ever play anything. And it might have been a little bit even less than that. It might have been seven and maybe as high as 10. So that was kind of because of the promise of performance.

We weren't able to, you know, that was the restriction. And of course, you know, as radio went on, it's like, you know, when things change with the, you know, how the CRTC loosened things on their promises of performance, you know, you would hear songs on the radio, on FM radio, you know, 40, 50 times a week, if not more, you know I this is sort of a similar question to Mike and this is kind of a dumb question but I think it's very central to in my mind anyway what the radio station is was right from the start was there ever like a strict yes no litmus test when putting together artists that will go into rotation.

Is this alternative music? So like Pink Floyd, for example, like a lot of their music's pretty out there, but we're filling stadiums versus simple lines or something. Yeah, I mean, I think especially the very early days, if you kind of go like 77 to probably up into, I'm going to say maybe 82-ish, that, you know, the radio station still played a lot of the, you know, holdover bands from the, from the seventies. So there was still, you know, and maybe it was even a little bit later, but there was still, you know, there was still Genesis records. There was still Floyd records. And, and a lot more of the, you know, the sort of, you know, obscure acts. Plus we played a lot of rock records too. Like, you know,

there was Judas Priest records and, you know, Budgie and, you know, we, we, we presented Ozzy Osbourne's Blizzard of Oz show. We played, you know, Sabbath. We played Motorhead. And I think a lot of people forget that, you know, that we banged Motorhead quite heavily. And that first Ozzy record, you know, we presented Blizzard of Oz in Kitchener.

And a bunch of us went down to Buffalo to see Ozzy and Motorhead playing a double bill at Shays. And I was very fortunate to get a chance to meet Randy Rhodes, and I gave Lemmy a little CFNY pin at the time, and he put it on his jacket, his leather jacket. Ivor, we can't bury this lead, because I'm a little bit younger than you. Not too much, just a little bit.

But are you telling me CFNY would play Crazy Train? Absolutely. See, I think, I'm not sure if this is true for you, Cam. I'd love to hear it. But my mind thinks that's a Q107 song. Oh, like totally. Although I will say that there was that, the fan website, the Spirit of Radio fan site

or whatever that website is, there's a lot of, because when you, I do remember seeing some of those charts from like the late 70s and early 80s, and Mike, you and I are of the same vintage, so this is a little before our time, but I do remember sort of being surprised, like oh, they were playing Genesis, oh, they were

playing, you know, I have Genesis. Oh, they were playing... What might be a good idea, because we're about... Steve Wynwood, I don't know. Sure, we're going to pepper you, Ivor. I know Brothers locked and loaded with specific questions, and I know Cam's got some,

and I know I do. So just to give us a little context, because there might be some under 40s listening in one or two. Can you set the stage, like as far as I know, at this time, and let's talk about, you know, the 80s in Toronto, before Chum FM goes top 40, let's talk about,

we had three stations that played rock in this city, right? We had Q107, we had Chum FM, and then there was CFNY. Can you just, can you paint a picture as to like what the rock radio landscape was like in Torontoonto back then well i think i think at the time i mean you know cfny you know prided themselves at the time as to you know playing such a you know a big big variety of songs like a bigger variety you know more so than than anybody else and um you know i think that you know the chum fm at the time i mean i i, you know, I think that, you know, the Chum FM at the time, I mean, I have, you know, some distinct memories of Chum, you know, and I grew up on Chum FM, and a lot of people did.

I mean, David Marston used to be on in the evening, and he was like the coolest show in Toronto. And he'd be the first guy to play, you know, he played the first, was the first guy ever to play Rush on the radio. And I know there's this legend about WMMS in Cleveland or whatever, but Alex Lifeson has said definitively that David Marsden was the first person to ever play Rush ever. And, you know, he premiered Dark Side of the Moon and The Land Lies Down on Broadway. And so in a lot of those, when David came to CF, a lot of people, you know, followed him over. So there was a lot of people from the 70s that kind of moved into the 80s. But I think the thing is you sort of take that,

and Q107 were doing what they were doing. And Q107 did some great things in the early days. I mean, they were, you know, they had a couple of strong shows on there. I think Larry LeBlanc was on there. I think Keith Elshaw was on there for a while and some people that I had one or two other people that are like the names escape me, but they were doing, you know, they, they, they did were pretty adventurous. And, you know, one of the things that I used to like about Q107 is they on a weekend,

they used to play a whole album from end to end. It was like late night radio. So I used to tape it. It's like, Oh, I managed to, you know, get my copy of whatever it might be, you know, cause you wouldn't get normally get a chance to do it. And I was, you know, very poor at the time. So it's like, Oh, now I have a, you know, that full album. So, but I think, you know, with CFNY that was like really, you know, yes, we played a lot of those bands that people were quite familiar with, but, but then, you know,

we also were playing a lot of things that nobody else was, was playing. And there was a lot of sort of like bands that were, you know, obscure bands that might've been, you know, obscure rock bands and things like that as well. So, and that's where I think you kind of get the spirit of radio thing where, you know, you would get some, you know, a Neil Peart or a Geddy Lee, or like, Oh, you know, they, they love talking heads. They love Brian Eno. They, they love magazine.

And those bands were not getting played elsewhere in the city. That's, this is a little pre my time as well. But I, you know, obviously I was a fan and a listener before I started working there in 1988, but without getting too much into it, Ivor, but really one thing we failed to mention here, I think is the fact that it was really difficult to get CFNY outside of Brampton. It wasn't going off the tower until, I believe, 1983 or 4?

It was, I believe it was 83, Neil. And yes, it was 100,000 watts on a 300-foot tower up in Caledon. So it was quite difficult for people to get it in the city. And, you know, there's lots of people I've talked to over the years that would tell me their, you know, the way they would set up their antennas and how they could, you know, figure out a way to get it, or that we could only get it at certain times of the day, or people would get in their cars to be able to hear it. So it was, you know, it was an incredible, you know, journey to get to that point where we could finally go up on the, you know, the CN Tower and be heard, you know, in a big way. I mean, it's funny in those early days when we

weren't on the tower, we might not have gotten into Toronto, but we seem to get into other parts of the Golden Horseshoe. And, you know, pretty early on, we had those fans out of the Niagara region and Buffalo as well. Now, the specific questions are going to be a little all over the place here. Like, I think the arrows are going to jump around because it's a lot of effort to keep this chronological, but I had Scott Turner in my backyard last week. Shout out to Scott Turner.

And it was Scott. We love Scott. Yeah, absolutely. Great guy. Great, great guys. And,

and, you know, every day Scott's putting up something on this date, you know, it, you know, all this historical pieces. They're great.

They're great references for people, you know? Well, I told him to start a podcast because I love that stuff. So we'll see if he listens. But he was mentioning that the very first number one on the very first Thursday 30 was The Cult's Love Removal Machine. And then that, of course, led to a chat about Chris Shepard. And then I played Freddie P's Snow Removal Machine. And we reminisced about the cult.

And that's a band that CFNY definitely played. But a brother tells me you might have a story about She Sell Sanctuary getting played on CFNY. Well, yeah. I mean, the thing is, you know, I think once CFNY got to, you know, past, you know, on the CN Tower, get to like 82, 83, 84, 85. Isn't that a simple mind song? It is. A new gold dream.

Anyway, I mean, you know, I think it just reached a point, you know, where, you know, it was like, okay, we're not playing Judas Priest anymore. We're not playing, you know, these rock bands that we were playing. We kind of gravitated into, you know, the Smiths were on the rise and things. So, you know, that kind of later era of the 80s or mid-80s, and, you know, the playlist was, you know, Depeche Mode, The Cure, Howard Jones, Yazoo, like a lot of those The Cure, Howard Jones, Yazoo, like a lot of those real soft sell, those real synth bands.

And, you know, for me, my taste was always, you know, I was the guy who liked, you know, Joy Division, Ball House, you know, bands that didn't do so much on the synth or whatever. bands that didn't do so much on the synth or whatever. So you get to 1985, and, you know, the cult's previous record, Spirit, you know, the first record, Resurrection Joe, Spirit Walker, is very much on the goth side. And then they changed, and along comes sanctuary and you know i mean chris shepherd was was spinning some of these harder things in the clubs and i i recall that and and um when when uh she sells sanctuary

came out it blew me away I thought it was just something else. Take my back, run And I'll take the time Take my back, take my back, run guitar solo The sparkle in your eyes Keeps me alive And the sparkle in your eyes Keeps me alive, keeps me alive Around And around the transplants Around and around, yeah A world, and a world of trance for fans

A world, and a world, yeah A world of trance for fans Well, I had to turn Make my back burn And I said to turn Make my back, make my back burn, yeah Yeah Yeah Like my honey The fire in your eyes

Kicks me alive And the fire in your eyes Gets me alive And show you how you'll find The sanctuary And show you how you'll find The sanctuary And the world The world turns around And the world, the world, the world turns around And I won't, and I won't, and I won't, and I won't

The world turns around And the world And the world turns around And the world And the world Yeah, the world turns around And the world Yeah, the world drops the town And I won't Yeah, the world drops the town And I won't

The world drops the town The powers that be that I was in those music meetings with at CFNY, just like, they didn't get it. Like, it was just like, this was like, this is a record that doesn't fit with us. And I was out doing the CFNY Roadshow, you know, three nights a week and stuff. And one of the things that I always brought back to the station, it's like, you know, I think sometimes at CFNY we thought that we might have been holier than now, that we knew everything about music. But you'd go out to these high schools and they'd be like, what about Skinny Puppy?

What about the Violent Femmes? What about, like, you know, four or five of these other bands? And I'd go back and like, guys, the kids are asking for this stuff, right? They're asking for stuff that we're not playing. We've got to listen to're really, you know, they're asking for stuff that we're not playing. We got to, you know, we got to listen to these, these kids, you know, and I just had a thing about the cult that it was like, we need to do this. And this is, and at that point, it was like Don Burns had come in and he, you know, Don Burns was, you know, he'd come in from the U.S. and he was there. And all of a sudden, it was the first time in the history of the station. It was like,

well, we need to take a look at what's going on with radio and records and let's take a look at what's going on with the heart report and and the gavin report and things like that i'm like fuck that like just fuck that this is like to me one of the greatest songs i've heard in years but it it was six six weeks in a row that I had the cult, she sells sanctuary into that meeting. And at the end, I just was, I was so fucking frustrated. I mean, I actually, I just said, I'm going to, I, if we don't play this record, like you guys, I mean, I had to the point where I'm going to see you're a bunch of losers and I'm going to, I'm going to quit. Like, it was like, of course, after that, I was like, well, what am I doing? But,

but I was so passionate about this record. You know, and then when we finally took a chance on it, it was like probably our biggest record of the year. The song was bigger in Canada than anywhere else. It was a double platinum record in Canada. It charted higher in Canada. I think it was, I think it ended up going to number six on the RPM chart, whatever that was worth. But, and it got played on, and eventually it got played on other radio stations, but

CFNY was the driver of that song more than anywhere else in the world. And you got to take credit for that, Ivor, because I remember when I first heard it on CFNY, I was a pizza driver. Yeah. And this guy came in who also was a pizza driver, a big CFNY listener, a couple years older than me. And he said, you got to hear this new song that I just heard by the cult.

And he played it or somebody played it. I heard it and it just blew my mind right off the bat. That one song was sort of a game changer for me in my journey that ended up seeing me at CFNY. That was one of the first songs I truly remember that solidified my love for CFNY because at that time, nobody else had even heard of the cult, let alone played any of their music.

Yes, yes. Well, it's interesting, you know, you sort of go fast forward a number of years, and I just heard this today from one of the other persons that worked at the station later after, and she was there when I was there, but later, this is Joe Faluna, and she, and I, the song eludes me, but she told me that she brought one of the Barenaked Ladies songs into 20 music meetings before it got on the air, and she was told that, well, that song sounds like the guy who sings real crappy or whatever, and of course, you know, the bare naked ladies, I think that, you know,

this is post my time, but I mean, certainly, you know, CFNY is the place where, where it all started for them, you know? So, so I guess, you know, but behind all those, a couple of those bands that were really big, that there were still some non-believers in there, you know? I mean, just, can I, can I just set up what a music meeting looked like when I started there in 1988? So, Ivor, I got a question for you in a sec, but the music meetings that I remember, I was working there with you and Neil Mann, and Neil and I shared that one office,

and then you had your own little office there off to the side. And you would give me a list of songs every week. And I had to print out a sheet. I mean, type for typewriter and type out these songs. We had no computers at the time. That's right. And these songs were going to go into the music meeting and you would listen to them. There would be 10 people in the room.

So there would be Ivor. There would be Don Burns. There would be Liz Janik. There would be Peter Goodwin. There would be Neil. There would be, my God, who else was in that room? Iver, maybe Phil Evans, maybe Darren Woslick. I mean, maybe Darren. Yeah, yeah. A couple of like, ladies that worked in the office, you know, it wasn't like all these big musical heads unnecessarily, you could get invited into this music meeting and a song would get put on the turntable or in the CD player very early days. And it was a vote. So if there were nine people in the room and five voted for it and four voted against, majority rules, right, Ivor? And the song would get added. Yeah. Wow. in 1992 or whatever it was when it first came out independently, all of a sudden K-Rock and a couple of other stations in the U.S.

started playing this song. And I don't even think any of us had even heard it before it got added because it was just such a big song. And obviously it was a smart move because we know the career that Beck has and had. But just an example of the difference from Ivor's era to the era I remember in the 90s, it was completely different. I mean, no offense to Neil Mann, who rose up the ladder and became the music director in the 1990s. But I mean, it went from saying good ears to good eyes,

because people were watching what was happening on a chart. So completely different scenario. I got to see both sides of that. Amazing. If you want to roll it back even further, I mean, if I go back to the early days, there was only three of us in the music meeting, maybe four, there would be David Marsden, myself, and Eddie Valiquette, and maybe one or two of the jocks would also sit in the meeting every once in a while. But, you know, I was in charge of, you know, Eddie was in charge of, because there was actually two music directors in those early days, myself and Eddie Vallecat. And Eddie was all the domestic, domestic stuff. And that was the stuff that not only was the, you know, the Canadian product, but also it was like all the things that the labels would drop off. My thing is I was the import music director.

So it would be like whatever stuff I can bring in from around the world. And man, oh man, I got some amazing stuff back then. But that was the most exciting thing about that, right? Because, you know, we didn't look at any chart. I didn't look at any charts for imports. It's like, well, they haven't even heard of these bands, let alone, you know, let alone looking for them on a chart. It's just like, this is something that I picked up. It came out in the UK or it came out in the wherever last week. Let's just take a listen to it. I think it's great. so many of those records that were, you know, that ended up on CFNY, like, you know, like 999 or Magazine or Japan

or, you know, Buzzcocks. None of those bands were on any charts anywhere, but we played them. You know, those were all gut, you know, gut feeling. I have so many questions. Most of my questions are just, again, yes, no, did you play this band? Actually, Neil, something you mentioned, like going into the 90s, I'm just curious. I feel like this will be part of the evolution.

I'm going to ask you about a pocket of very specific bands that I remember 102.1 playing where I was born in 77 so like by 96, 97 I'm like around 20 just starting university and I remember these bands almost in order getting added to CFNY playlist and I was like WTF at the time

this was the second Sheryl Crow album that song If It Makes You Happy because I don't think the first Sheryl Crow album was played by CFNY. It was maybe the second Dave Matthews band album, who I sort of knew was really popular,

but again, you didn't hear this stuff on the radio, but I feel like the second album, and then Fish, specifically the song Free, I don't know if you remember, they had an album called Billy Breeze. All this stuff seemed to get added. And I remember at the time thinking, okay, it seems like this station

is maybe going in a bit more adult contemporary direction. I'm just curious, like internally at the station, was that type of music sort of, I assume that not everyone was on board. It's like, let's start playing Sheryl Crow. This is alternative music. Because I don't really think she was alternative per se and I don't know if that matters but that's how in my mind I always interpreted the station well I don't remember Sheryl Crow specifically but the other two you mentioned specifically Fish and Dave Matthews band

being completely frank with you Cam I think that uh the Edge missed both of those bands from the start of their careers I mean there's a lot of bands out there we have to be cognizant of that fact because you just can't play every band there's just it's impossible although the CFNY era of the 70s and 80s certainly tried to an extent um But as far as, again, I don't remember Sheryl Crow, so I can't really answer that one. But I remember Dave Matthews' band was playing Maple Leaf Gardens, I guess it would have been around 1994 or 1995. And all of a sudden, we're broadcasting from there.

Kim Hughes is doing live in Toronto from there. And I'm thinking, who's Dave Matthews? I've never even heard of this guy. And meanwhile, he had sold out, you know, 12,000 seats at Maple Leaf Gardens. So we definitely, I feel, missed the boat on Dave Matthews. I don't know why, to tell you the truth. And Phish was another one of those bands. In the United States, Phish was playing to 100,000 people in the U S and yet in Canada, Ivor, maybe you can speak to these bands. I'm not sure. I think Fish might've been Warner. They may not have been universal.

They weren't, they weren't us, but I mean, you know, that, that's a lot like the you know, when you see certain bands, you know, that we say, okay, these big Canadian bands as soon as they crossed the border, they're back in the clubs. And, and, you know, when you see certain bands that say, okay, these big Canadian bands, as soon as they cross the border, they're back in the clubs. And, you know, I was on the Polygram label side at the time, and it was a real struggle. We had Government Mule on the label at the time, and, you know, Government Mule was a very big band in America.

We had Rusted Root, but we could never get them up here because they were making so much money in the US and they just couldn't get the offers to play up here. Sorry, Cam, to answer your question quickly about as far as the formatics went, were they not alternative or were they alt-rock?

It didn't matter in that we never labeled the band that because we looked at the alt rock chart and if the alt rock chart was playing them and primarily in the 90s we watched k-rock uh wfnx out of boston there was a station in atlanta station in san diego a station in chicago they were essentially all and one in d the edge in Dallas as well they were the alt rock stations that controlled what was getting added in North America specifically K-Rock yeah they seem to be very very on the cutting edge because they were in Los Angeles but like Metallica was never was that like a CFNY like Injustice for All would that have been in rotation

I know it's sort of it's a pretty like heavy sound to hear on the radio in general but I assume they weren't even though they were certainly outside the mainstream albeit they were also playing stadiums too I don't even remember Q107 playing Metallica until the Black Album to tell you the truth

I don't remember them playing Metallica that was one of those bands that radio just did not own. The fans own that band from day one. And I know that because I've been a fan since day one. And I remember, you know, I go when I was tired of listening to CFNY, I would put my Metallica cassette in and there you go. But Metallica wasn't a radio band at all. Much music would play the video for one.

That was their first video. Always a big deal for me when they played one because it was like watching a little film. Yeah, it was haunting. I will say my one Metallica story is in 1988, just before I left CFNY, I was fortunate. I got to go on a junket to Moscow when it was still communist, and I handed out a bunch of Metallica cassettes to some teenagers in Red Square just so because I knew they didn't

have that stuff over there so it was like oh and I put it you know and I took some CFNY stickers and stuck one on a tank somewhere and on a you know so that was Phoebe gabor with you that's right yes yes well denise and i cracked a a couple of molson canadians in red square too so that was my god iver do you realize now you have three people on the zoom and all of us i think are legitimately giddy to ask you our next questions like i'm so loaded up of questions i'm like do i just like as host of this show, do I just mute Cam and Bill? Just do whatever you want.

I'll do my best to answer. So one thought I had though when you were describing this process of how a song would get added to the CFNY playlist and it sounded like true democracy. If there were three people in the room, two out of three carried the day. If you had nine people,

what's the math on that? Five people carry the day. And it kind of reminds me of when I speak with the Garys and they're booking an act, I don't know, be it at the Edge or the Horseshoe when they were doing it there, wherever, you know, it really did come down 100%

to whether the Garys liked the music or not. It's really, it's quite true. I had the Gary's on my NY the Spirit show a little while ago, and we were talking a little bit about when they booked the police the first time. And it was nothing to do with the police because they were like, well, what do you know about the band? And it's like, oh, Stuart Copeland, he was in Curved Air. And I'm like, oh, that's pretty good.

And it's like, oh, Andy Summers, didn't he play with Kevin Coyne? And he goes, yeah, he did. Kevin Coyne. And he goes, the first time that the police came to Toronto, the first when they met them face-to-face, he's like, how do we get a hold of Kevin Coyne? Because we want to book him. And then the very last show that ever played at the Edge in Toronto when it closed down

was Kevin Coyne. And that was thanks to the police. But yes, it was absolutely their taste. Gary told me that he was into Prince in the very early days and Prince almost played the first police picnic, which I never knew until, you know,

we did this interview about a month and a half ago. But think about that. Like we're so jaded nowadays. Like everything is about units moved or streams or, you know, revenue. Like we're so jaded, but imagine this magical time, not that long ago. I mean, we were all alive for this time when you would literally book a band in the Gary's case, because you liked the music. And you would add a song to the CFNY playlist because you would literally book a band, in the Gary's case, because you like the music, and you would add a song to the CFNY playlist

because you thought it was a good song. Yeah. I mean, what was wrong with that? I mean, I just used to love it. What was wrong with that? Like, why is that now? Why are they now, like, it's done with these focus groups and they come out of it and say, yeah, we're now playing this.

Big business. It's the way, I mean, and it's, with these focus groups and they come out of it and say, yeah, we're now playing this because big business. It's, it's, it's the way, I mean, and it's, you know, it's a similar thing in the streaming, you know, working the streaming services and things like that. But I mean, I just think it was one of the greatest things as a, as a jock when I used to have my import show, it was such a thrill to be playing something for the first time and just going, I wonder what people are going to think of this.

Can't wait to play whatever that might be. What's the feeling like Ivor when you do that, like, as you described, you play something for the first time, maybe the first time on this continent and then you can maybe, I don't know, two years later, you can say that band that's blowing up right now that everybody's going nuts so far. Like I played them when nobody heard of this band. Like, like what's that feeling like?

I mean, it, I think the thing from back then, what was really great about it was that, you know, we used to really piss off the record companies, right? Because we were playing stuff and they're like, Oh shit, that's not even in our plans. Like we're not, we're like we weren't even thinking of that one. And then it'd be like, you know, so it'd be like, this would be on an import. I think it was that, um, the very first UB 40 album sold something like 10,000 units

in Canada on import alone. And they had no deal in this country. Wow. And there was, there was a number of examples of that where, you know, the labels would start hearing us play all these records and like, wow, we need to move on this. We need to do something, right? Because, you know, in today's world, it's like, you know, pretty much everything's the same around the world. If a record's coming out November 5th, it's coming out everywhere. But back then things were, you know, deals were different and things were staggered and, and you know,

but it was, it was really gratifying to know that you were making a difference or, or when you would have a band that would be like, you know, they'd be doing a club tour in the U S and then, and, and I'm sure there was always a few exceptions to different markets, but it'd be great to see, oh, they would play to 200 people in, you know, Detroit the night before and they'd come to Toronto and there'd be 3,000 people

there because, you know, they were getting, you know, big airplay on CFNY, you know. I feel like Scott Turner just shared the Smiths visits to Kingswood Music Theater where these were amongst their, like, it was their biggest show anywhere even in the UK, is that right? Well, I mean the UK was a different thing but certainly

really big and highlights from North America I mean, Neil mentioned WFNX I remember FNX presented the Smiths while I was down there on a visit and the venue was equal size down there but theyX presented the Smiths while I was down there on a visit. And the venue was, you know, equal size down there.

But they were banging the Smiths as hard as CFNY. But the one thing I do remember is that Gary's booked the Smiths to play in London, Ontario. And he had gone to FM96 to present the show. And the late Greg Simpson was the music director there. And I don't know if you guys knew Greg, he's a really good guy, but he was very protective of London, Ontario.

And he's very protective of what, what was played in that market. And I, I recall it. He just said, our, our listeners do not want to hear the Smiths. London doesn't want to hear the Smiths.

Forget about it. We're not having anything to do with it. And the Garys were incensed. They were like, you know what? F you. We're doing the show, and we're going to sell out. I am the sun and the air Of a shiner's that is criminal in Baltimore I am the sun and air

Of nothing in particular A'r sôn a'r ddau Nid yw'r pethau yn benodol Gwna' i chi sgwyddo eich mawt Sut gallwn ni ddweud Dwi'n mynd am bethau'n llawn ffordd Dwi'n dyn a dwi angen i mi fod Fel mae pawb arall wedi'i dyn i'n adlewyrch Fel pob un arall I am the sun and the air. The Yes We Are Open podcast is hosted by FOTM Al Grego.

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intensive peer group for over 1200 CEOs, executives and business owners around the world. They've got a great podcast, the CEO edge podcast. I post a new episode on Toronto mic every week. I urge you to subscribe and listen inspiring fireside chats with Nancy McKay herself. And now let's return to the inaugural episode of The Progressing Past of Modern Melodies, CFNY Not. And, you know, with London, Ontario being, you know, having University of Western Ontario and a lot of people were from Toronto, the CFNY Roadshow used to go to University of Western Ontario regularly. So all these people that were down in London, they dismissed completely sold out

the market, sold out the shows with zero airplay in the market. Something Ivor brought up, and I just want to go back to it for a second, pissing off the record companies. So this continued after Ivor left and well into the 1990s, because in the era that Ivor talks about imports and things, there were only Ivor, what, two, three record stores in Toronto. You could go to, I think Vortex, the record peddler. And there was like maybe one or two more, right. To get these records. Yeah. There was a few more like cheapies and yeah,

there was a few places. So, but what my point was going to be, though, let's look at the second Pearl Jam album. I think it's called Vitology. So what happened was, what's that? Second one is Versus. Oh, is it? Okay, I'm sorry.

So I can't remember if it's their second or third album. Vitology is the third. Vitology is the third. Okay. Okay, so anyway, my point with Pearl Jam is, and it wasn't 10, but the album, I guess, Versus. I guess it would have been Versus. Yeah.

So the record label didn't want us playing that Pearl Jam album, and yet it had been released on vinyl in the United States. So our music director at the time was a guy named John Jones. And John drove from Brampton to Buffalo New York bought the album brought it back and we started playing it immediately yes the record company was not happy and it got to the point where the record label threatened that because it's Sony I believe I believe yes which was a very large company at the time. They threatened to cut us off from giving us other product or interviews or servicing us albums or giving us any kind of break

because we were playing this Pearl Jam album. And I don't have many great things to say about Jon Jones because on a side note, he was the guy that called the Pixies rubbish. And Ivor, we know that's a load of bullshit. But that's another story for another time. We can talk about that for sure. Right. Yeah. But now's the time, brother.

Hey, OK. So anyway, we'll get to it in a sec. But I do have a lot, great deal of respect for him and the station at that point because we stood up and we said people want to hear the Pearl Jam album we're playing the fucking Pearl Jam album now the Pixies story is I or sorry John and I did the Thursday 30 somewhere in between Pete Fowler and Martin Streak and Scott Turner and whoever else he was doing it with and I was doing a Thursday 30 with John, and the Pixies had released Trompe Le Monde. Was that the album I bought?

Yeah. Okay. So I think the big song off it was UMass. Yeah. And so it made the Thursday 30, but it was on its way down on the chart. And John Jones said on the air, good riddance to bad rubbish.

And I just looked at him like, are you fucking insane man like the pixies one of the coolest bands of all time and you're calling them bad rubbish oh my head was blown and that's the last time i i think i ever took anything that man said seriously well what was he into if he didn't like the pixies because i also don't think of them as like a radio band either well i mean the thing is like the pixies the pixies were an alternative radio band and for myself it was like um well i left cfny at the end of november 88 and and i went to polygram who was who had beggars banquet and who had the pixies so one of the first acts that i'm working is the pixies

and going back to my old radio station to work the pixies and it So one of the first acts that I'm working is the Pixies and going back to my old radio station to work the Pixies. And it was one of my biggest frustrations I'd ever had, not being able to get, you know, Doolittle on the Doolittle album on the air. I mean, this monkey's gone to heaven. I mean, at the time, you know, and CFNY was following all the charts, but they were very much following a lot of sort of like the top 40 charts. This is the 88, 89, and early 90. And it was the number one alternative record in North America. And, of course, it was huge around the world.

The band were supporting U2 as well. And I couldn't get it on CFNY. It was one of the biggest frustrations I ever had in my career of not being able to get them on the air there. I mean, later on when things changed and new people came in and they got away from playing George Michael and Madonna records again, that the Pixies did get back on the air. But when it was the hottest thing going,

it was really a sad and frustrating thing for me to see it in those days. Okay. Situation critical. I got to ask you about another band right now. So unbeknownst to Ivor Hamilton, unless brother let you know, we almost had Mark Holmes from Platinum Blonde on this show. Like how close did we get? How close did we get? We got very close, but he did not return my final email. Ivor, what can you say about the decision?

Like you didn't, like for the record, you didn't play Platinum Blonde on CF1. No, we did. We did. Okay, so give us the deets. That's why you're here. You were there, as Brother would say. You were there. Can I just set this up?

Go ahead, Brad. Go ahead, sure. So I know Mark. I've known Mark since. I mean, you've known Mark for years too, Ivor, but I think that Mark was always very disappointed, and I shouldn't be speaking for him, but I will, and maybe he'd want to come on sometime and correct me,

but I think Mark was very disappointed that CFNY didn't play Platinum Blonde. And I wanted to know from you, Ivor, we all did. We wanted to know why they didn't get play. Because there were some bands that I think sounded very similar to them that we did play. No, I don't disagree. And yes, there were a lot of bands that were similar. I don't know. Some, you know, Eight Seconds, I.I., you know, a few bands like that.

Strange Advance. Strange. I mean, you know, Strange Advance, I think, were maybe a little more adventurous progressive-wise. But, I mean, I think that, you know, there's no right or wrong to any of this, but I think that there were certain acts that when they reached a critical mass, and I think this was more, you know, David Marsden's opinion back then, it's like, you know what, like, let the other stations play this, and, you know, we'll go off and play other things.

You don't need us to to play this record because i know it was the same conversation about brian adams was had and there was you know um bruce allen was very upset that you know cfny wasn't playing bruce allen i know david's response was he just like you know let the other guys play it we're gonna we're gonna you know go and break other acts but you know to your point that in hindsight, you know, would it, would it have really hurt at the time? Probably not. And it probably would have been one of those situations that I'm only speculating that, you know, there was a lot of acts, if you remember CFNY on the year end list had a best of list and had a worst of list. So you would get one year where stuff would show up on, on the, you know, let's say 1981, it would be there on the best of list. Well, things change

within a year. And then the following year, the bunch of those bands would show up on the worst of list. And those were a lot of big bands too, you know, like ACDC that used to be a big CFMI band. And it's like, they're on the worst. And then Genesis were on the worst. And then, then Duran Duran were a huge CFMI band. And then all of a sudden they were on the worst of list and you know so um i don't know you know looking back on it like yeah you know if you got the way back machine were able to change it yeah you probably could have and with not a lot of um a lot of uh pushback but it was just a decision that was made back then. I mean, even on the punk side, we never played the Forgotten Rebels either. Well, I did.

Well, yeah, you were one of the guys who played three in the morning or something, right? But I think that there was a thing, there was a bit of sensitivity. You know, they had some pretty, you know, they had some songs in their repertoire, the Forgotten Rebels, that you could never get away with playing in a million years if you were in today's world. They were like surfing on heroin, right? Well, yeah. Yeah, bomb the boats and feed the fish, right?

Fuck me dead. Right? So there was a lot, you know. But they were quite upset. I remember the band, you know, came to the station a couple of times, like, why won't you play our records? And I'm like, I'm not playing, you know, bomb the boats. I'm not playing those records.

So, but, I mean, we used to play, you know, and there's no rhyme or reason to it. I mean, you know, in the early days, I mean, we used to play The Cure is Killing an Arab, and it was like, okay, it was never meant to be disrespectful. It was

like a great alternative song, you know. I look at it kind of like, know i watched the leonard skinner documentary recently and interviewed gary rossington and they you know he decided they needed to address that the band flew the confederate flag and there was never any disrespect to being racist it was like they were from the south and that's that's who they were they would they don't fly it anymore or whatever, but, you know, times change. I mean, and CFNY used to play, you know, one of the biggest songs was Frank Zappa's Bobby Brown.

And, you know, in my current role, when I do my shows at NY The Spirit, it's like, I couldn't play that song today in 2021. That song is just, you know, in out of step with the times. And you look at it, you know, similarly to the, what you see on some of the old, um, you know, Warner brothers cartoons and Disney things that, you know, what was, what worked in the fifties and the forties doesn't work today. And you just need to take a different approach. You know, what know what about uh is it the vapors who sang a turning japanese can you play that one in japanese yeah yeah i mean that was a very big cfny song it was a really big song right and and i don't ever recall any negativity towards it ever you know that was any anything it It was just, it was a great, a great new wave song at the time, but I don't recall anybody, you know.

Because I think that song is the interesting combination of like, slight, like could be interpreted as racist, but is actually about masturbating. I feel like, is it not? Sure, yeah. Right. I mean, you know. Like problematic.

Would you play, you know, would you. Would you, would you play, you know, would you play a jet boy, jet girl today? Right. You know, he gives me head and the, you know, the lyrics and, and you know, there's, there's lots of examples of songs that just, you know, you couldn't, you couldn't do it today. Before we, can we, can we talk about. Cam, let me close the chapter on Mark Holmes really quickly and then we go straight to Cam Gordon. Is it appropriate if you're...

And I thought of this only because I had Leona Boyd on the program recently and there's footage of her arriving to record Tears Are Not Enough. She arrives in this fur jacket. So my question is, is it appropriate to arrive to a benefit for famine relief in Africa and Ethiopia in a limo, a stretch limousine? Is that an appropriate maneuver? Because Mark Holmes...

I would say, you know, again, you look back on the era, you know, if it was 2021, absolutely not. But back then, you know, it were things that people weren't thinking of. not, but back then it was, you know, it were things that people weren't thinking of. And I would just want to say, you know, and we're closing out on Mark Holmes, just a, a, a, a kind, thank you Mark for all of the wonderful years that you and Bobby Guy provided at your, your tenure at the mod club, because, you know, you, you,

managed to really build one of the greatest club memories of this city that we've ever had over the late 90s and 2000s. Some really great things that you get at the Mod Club. If we can get Mark Holmes, because I'll still try and get him. If we can get Mark Holmes,

that's going to be a big part of our conversation guys. The revival nights at the Mod Club and what was the club across the street? It was Revival. Revival across the street and then Mod Club. I think when they started Revival and then moved to Mod Club. They did. And just the culture of that Saturday night was incredible. And it's all because of two guys, because of Mark Holmes and Bobby Guy. We'll get into that.

That'll be a future episode of the progressing past of modern melodies. Cam Gordon, the mic is yours, buddy. Okay. Five final anecdote about Tears for Not Enough. And Mike, I feel like we discussed during the deep dive where Joni Mitchell was actually said, I think she was talking to McLean's about it. She said, ironically, I was starving when I went in to record that. I'm like, are you kidding me, Joni?

Come on. It's poor form. This is a joint question for Neil and for Ivar about CFNY's relationship with two artists over the years and how this changed. One artist is going to be U2. Specifically, I'm curious because, again, this is before

my time. I wasn't there. I was like 10 years old when the Joshua Tree came out. Did U2 drop off? Because, again, it was just such a ubiquitous album. And also, I'd love to learn because the only thing I remember CFY playing from Neil Young

was that album they did with Pearl Jam. Specifically, Merkin Ball or Mirror Ball? Yeah, I sort of remember that song Downtown. Downtown was Mirror Ball. So Merkin Ball was the EP that had I Got Shit. Oh, they called it I Got It, I guess. I Got It, yeah.

So Neil Young, U2. I'm curious, more like super famous U2 and Neil Young. What's CFNY's relationship with those two artists was? I can start, I mean, at least on the U2 portion. And CFNY was there from day one with U2 portion and, and, you know, CFNY was, was there from day one with U2 and, you know, presented that first show that they played at the El Macombo, which I went to. And How many people were there, Ivor? About 80 people.

Wow. Um, it was, and it was the day after, uh, Lennon had died and they actually played in Buffalo the night before. And, you know, we were there from day one, and we really, really, really embraced the band. And, you know, when things broke through with the Joshua Tree, you know, the band wanted to pay tribute to, you know, where they started in Toronto, so they did a press conference back at the El Macombo because it was the first place that they, that they ever, ever played. So, I mean,

I think that, you know, the station had that great relationship, you know, with supporting the band, but I think also, you know, everybody came to the table pretty quickly on that. Like the Chums and the Qs also played U2 very quickly. We were always there very, you know, we were always the first on it. I mean, I, you know, at one point, you know, there was a very short period. I don't think it was any more than six months or so where Chum FM during the middle part of the 80s got into playing a lot of new music. Like they were really like playing a lot of alternative music for a very, very short time.

And they scooped us on a couple of things. And I remember David saying, he pulled me in and said, don't you ever let that radio station scoop us on anything again, right? station scoop us on anything again right and i had a had a great relationship with um the uh the the guy who was the island records rep and and i remember he and i and at that point i was like okay you're on and like neil to your point when you talked about john jones driving to buffalo to buy a pearl jam record well i had a had a source in Buffalo that I crossed that border probably 40 times to go and pick up music from Buffalo. And I had a source in the UK who worked the rounds at all the labels and got us stuff. So the Joshua Tree record came out before

in the UK about a week or so before it came out in North America. And I very distinctly remember the guy from Island Records dropping into the radio station. He goes, got a cassette of the U2 album. And I reached behind my desk and said, I have the real album right here. And he wasn't happy. Well, I mean, in that instance, there was a lot of respect between us so we did respect the deadlines on that particular one um maybe maybe we got ahead of it for a few hours but we got to the point where we were we were real pros at getting music ahead everybody else

and and you were absolutely to answer your your Neil Young, so Pearl Jam made Neil Young legit again. Neil Young was done. He was done. You know, he was, before they even had classic rock at this time, he was in that category. But there was no radio really playing that kind of music. So, you know, Q would be playing like stuff,

some of his earlier metal stuff. Rocking in the Free World was a massive Q hit. It was. And so my thinking is, World was a massive Q hit. It was. And so my thinking is, because I don't remember what year that was. I think it was 89. 89? Yeah, 89.

Okay, so I'll change my answer a little bit. I mean, he did have a little bit of a resurgence. Yeah, Mike, I'll give you full credit for that. He had a bit of a resurgence. But my memory is Pearl Jam made Neil young legit to the younger audience again so yeah neil young would tour and i remember he played his show at the molson or sorry not the molson apathy at molson park and barry and he'd always bring like new bands so one year he had social distortion with um and sonic youth and so so he had the right people working with him that understood that,

hey, Neil's got this kind of Generation X thing going on now, despite the fact that he's 30 years older than these people. Godfather of grunge. Absolutely. And that's his legacy. And I think I would give 100% of that, or maybe 80% of it, because Mike, like you said, to your point, he did have Rockin' in the Free World.

But I would give a lot of that to Pearl Jam for what they did for him and working with him. Now, what about when he did that album Trans, like Computer Age and all that stuff he's doing with the coders, which there's a great concert film of him. I think it's from Berlin, where he's got sort of his new wave look from like 82, his hair's a bit shorter and stuff.

I could totally see that being in rotation at CFNY, even though I feel like a lot of the stuff he put up in the early 80s. It was. It was. I mean, Neil Young was an act that, you know, right up until, I'm going to say probably, you know, 83, 84 that the station still still played, had a lot of respect for. But yes, the trans record, it did get a huge amount of airplay, but it did. It did, you know, get in there.

And it was a couple of cool songs. I mean, it it would work with Kraftwerk. It would work with Grace Jones. It would probably work with some of that later period Japan. It kind of fit in. It's so weird, but then he put Landing on Water, which is a complete stinker. It would just be like he keeps on writing himself off

and they come back with Rock in the Free World or that thing Weld he did that was just all feedback. He's just such a bizarre discography. There's a number of these great artists out there that do that. It's the same with Van Morrison. You never know what you're going to get with a Van Morrison record. It's hardcore anti-vax.

Now, Ivor might not be aware of this, but I know Brother Bill is well aware of this. But for 76 weeks in a row until the end of August, actually, I recorded with Cam Gordon and Stu Stone Pandemic Friday episodes of Toronto Mic. And one of the ongoing debates we'd have would be regarding Lawrence Gowan back when he was just called Gowan. Okay. So now that we have Ivor here, I'm hoping we can get like a definitive answer on this. Although a lot of this is early nineties, if I remember correctly, but what was CFNY's relationship like with Gowan?

And is there any chance Stu Stone is correct when he recollects that Gowan was being played regularly in the early 90s on CFNY? Is that even possible? Because I was listening, and I have no recollection of that at all. I mean, this is after my time there. He certainly was played very regularly during the 80s. He was a CASB nomination, and I believe a recipient. But I don't know whether or not he was played regularly in the nineties because it

was just, you know, at that point, you know, it was, you know, Pearl Jam followed by the Chili Peppers and Nirvana, every other song. So I don't know if it was in between. He was not, not that I remember anyway, not that he wasn't a new guy. And I was apparently there. Yeah. I barely remember, but I was apparently,

but no, I don't remember. I remember Gowan in the eighties with his lovely Kentucky waterfall. He had that nice. Is that like criminal mind? Strange animal. Okay. Animal criminal mind.

Absolutely. Moonlight desire. Maybe I'm trying to think. In the nineties. I don't even remember him being. Sorry to say this in case he happened to be listening or someone's a big fan, but I don't remember him being very relevant in the 1990s.

He rebranded himself. He went by his full name, Lawrence Gowan, and he had a couple of songs. There's a Time for Love. And these songs are pretty big on Mix 99.9. I was thinking CHFI might play that one. I was just trying to think, when did he join Styx? I don't know.

Does anybody know when he changed his career? I feel like late 90s. I feel like he's been in Styx like 20 years now. It's been a long time. He's really made a name for himself with that. Can we talk about an interesting crossover track, and then this will parlay into sort of a bigger conversation again this is sort of a joint question

because one of the sort of I remember when I was first getting into music again was around 1087 when Mars Pump Up The Volume came out that was a real sort of all over the place because that was like had that 4AD band like AR Kane was in there

and then like CFNY they did play stuff like 808 State and like a guy called Gerald I know this is more getting into the Chris Shepard realm was that sort of like more like club music and sort of a lot of the jungle and stuff getting the location at all?

I mean Pump Up the Volume was a big CFNY song and it was like I think it was a platinum record in this country. When I was into Polygram, it was a big monster song. It was huge. And that was just like a single. There was never like a Mars album. I think there was a bunch

of remixes. There might have been a couple of other singles but no, there wasn't much beyond that. Guys like Don Burns and Scott and Chris Shepard kind of championed house music. When CFNY was kind of in its late 80s, I think, Ivor, you were gone by then. It was kind of fighting to kind of find its place. It was pre-grunge and it was late 80s. It's the era that I started in.

And all I remember is there was that kind of music going on from Shepard at the clubs, RPM, and then live in the studio on Saturday nights. And then there was the Manchester movement out of England with the Happy Mondays and Stone Roses and Spiral Carpets and things like that. And they were sort of competing against each other. And then, of course, Nirvana came along. carpets and things like that and they were sort of competing against each other right and then of course nirvana came along and it's true when people say that blew everything out of the water it destroyed everything q was doing and it really didn't destroy what was going on at the edge

at cfny which was becoming the edge it actually saved us i think think. Yeah. Well, I remember there's that band Utah Saints. Sure. Something good. I work with those guys. Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of stuff going in that direction. One of Toronto Mike's favorite bands, the KLF, that sort of stadium house thing. I feel like Nirvana.

Utah Saints were in Toronto the night that the Blue Jays won the first World Series. Wow. Oh, my God. And they actually sampled some of the street noise from one of their record teams. That's a fun fact.

We're kind of sucking it all in or whatever. Oh, my God. Anytime a thought like that crosses that big brain of yours, you spit it in the microphone because that's the shit we live on, you don't know trino mike is going to be mentioning that to his poor wife daily like monica monica you won't believe this i'm gonna can't wait to talk to her i'm gonna go run tell my girlfriend oh my god but i think that you know that that's awesome yeah that whole thing on the dance and i I agree with what Neil's saying that, you know, that the station was kind of like trying to find that identity.

And it kind of goes back to what, you know, I mentioned about earlier about when I used to do the CFNY Roadshow. We, towards the, you know, the later days that we'd go out to a lot of high schools and be like, oh my God, we haven't got a single thing that this whole school out to a lot of high schools and be like, oh, my God, we haven't got a single thing that this whole school wants to play. Because you go into these certain places and be like, these guys all want to hear house music.

Or they have a certain style. So we ended up taking a whole bunch of records out on the road with us that we never played on the radio station because we're like, you know what, we want to get paid. We want people to have a good time, and maybe they never played on the radio station because we're like you know what we want to get paid we want people to have a good time and maybe they'll listen to the radio station so we ended up like but then martin street deserves credit on this to say marty said martin say let's let's play all these house records or whatever so we would bring in whatever that omni of fish and i you know i it just some of these, Little Louie. We just ended up carrying all these records

because we needed to. So I worked for the Video Roadshow with Martin and a guy named Bobbo in the late 80s. That was my first job on top of being a producer and working in the music department with Ivor and Neil. And absolutely right. Martin was the guy that said, when we play the urban centers,

like when we play in Toronto at a school, say at Riverdale High or something, these kids don't want to hear Duran Duran. They want to hear hard underground house music. And he was the guy that stayed on top of all of that and really kept the roadshow relevant and kept us employed frankly and then the other thing too that i make mention of too was the hip-hop too because hip-hop started creeping in or like you know what there's a bunch of hip-hop records that we need to right to have i mean you

know i i mean i won't say you know beastie boys but they were you know sort of on the hip-hop but it's like okay we you know they were asking for more than the Beastie Boys. It's like, we need to have EPMD. We need to have Run DMC. We need to have all these other things. Rob Bass and DJ Easy Rock. Easy Rock, yes, absolutely. Who I ever worked with.

Yes, I did. I did work with those guys. It was my first platinum record when I worked at Polygram was the Rob Bassbased DJ Easy Rock. Tell us this. Was working with them joy or pain? You know what? It really depends.

They were actually pretty good guys to work with, but there were a couple of shows where, you know, things were a little scary. But I think once everybody got to know one another, it was, it was fine. You know, I mean, I, I worked with, you know, I mean, all of them, I was actually the product manager for Def Jam. So, I mean, I worked with meth and red man and Foxy Brown and, and, uh, I worked with, I worked with DMX. DMX was hard, man. He was, he was a hard cat. Like, uh, but you know, I worked with Jay Z and that and, and LL Cool J was one of the greatest guys I

ever worked with. And, and, you know, he was, he was something else. He worked, that guy worked his butt off, you know, and deserved everything he got in this country. Ladies love Cool James. Uh, when you were talking about that, uh, dance music that was, you know, you were playing for the, you know, and deserved everything he got in this country. Ladies love cool James. When you were talking about that dance music that was, you know, you were playing for the, for the, the high school dances and stuff. It's funny that not Martin, of course, but when you talk about Scott or a lot of these cats, you mentioned Shepard, they ended up going and kicking ass at Energy 108 there shortly thereafter,

right? kicking ass at Energy 108 there shortly thereafter, right? Yeah. Energy 108 was a pretty vibrant force in the 90s and they really, Scott Turner, give him credit for what he did over there and brought a lot

of great music to the city. The grunge thing wasn't their thing. Again, Shepard, Scott, Don Burns, the grunge thing they really didn't didn't like they because they they compared it to the q107 of the day they thought it was too rock because a lot of those bands were just you know based on they were the fact that they're fans of black sabbath and acdc and i'm glad ivy you brought it up a while ago there but a lot of people forget

and i think you guys were a little surprised when iver said hey they were the first ones really playing acdc and black sabbath right you know i remember when i walked into that music department at 83 kennedy road south there was one wall that had like the current uh albums on it and then there was another wall i think everything was taped up in white iver if you remember. And that was like Genesis and Alex Sensational, Alex Harvey Band. That's where Darren Walz was. Hawkwind records. Hawkwind and UFO and shit. I'm like, what is this stuff?

I don't even know what it is. But that was where CFNY kind of, you know, gained traction before the new wave stuff came in. See, that's why I find it so interesting that Shep was such a big champion of the cult. She sells sanctuary because that seems like when he would have been a

tipping point more when you were hearing stuff like skinny puppy and like the more danty stuff. Yet that, that song I'd argue is like, I still think of it as like a beer commercial song. Cause I feel like that's the first time I heard it. It was like a bad ice beer or something. Yeah, I know.

Shep was the one who turned the cult Shep was definitively the one who talked them into working with Rick Rubin when they did the follow-up, which was their biggest record. I mean, I give Shep credit for, you know, he listened to them and was instrumental in helping to get that happen. Beastie Boys as well, you know, I give Shep credit for, you know, he listened to them and, you know, was instrumental in helping to get that that happened.

You know, I have a few boys as well. You have to give a lot of credit for the Beastie Boys. He was playing cookie puss and stuff off demos on his Saturday night show in the early 80s. And cookie puss, I don't know if you remember, but was basically a phone call to a Carvel ice cream place. It was a crank call. It was a crank call, like the Jerky Boys kind of thing. And Chris would play it. Love the Jerky Boys. You did, Ivor. Ivor, have you heard from Chris Shepard any time fairly recently?

It's been a few years, maybe five, six years. I mean, the last time we saw each other was when Simple Minds played at Massey Hall, and I can't remember how long ago that was, but we did share a beer at that show and had a good time and

got to say hi to the guys because he was quite tight with the Simple Minds guys, too. He's probably going to have two more PhDs by the time. It's funny, you know, when you talk about the grunge era, you know, at the time I was at Polygram Records and I was a promo rep. And, you know, we had like all of the, not all of them,

but we had a lot of the hair bands, you know. So we had like, you know, Cinderella was one of our bands and Bon Jovi was one of our bands and, and, and we had kiss and, and, um, ugly kid Joe and that. And then, you know, and then I remember when, you know, when things started to emerge and it just was like going and, and when, when smells like teen spirit came out and I was like, we don't have, it was almost like, it was like, it's over. Like there goes all of our bands.

Like it just was like. Overnight, right? Like almost. It happened very quickly. But I remember like, you know, every once in a while, like when Smells Like Teen Spirit, when that came, when that was starting to emerge and I was out doing my rounds to the radio stations. And so I'd go in and I'd work my records. And I'd go, okay, I've done my business.

I said, I just want to give a shout out to MCA's Smells Like Teen Spirit. And to me, this song is going to be as big as Black Sabbath Paranoid. To me, it's one of the biggest songs I've ever heard in my life. And I think, Neil, you probably know this story, but I ended up getting a call from Kevin Shea, who was the head of promotion at MCA, saying, thank you for working our records. I feel that my tenure at Universal, when I got my 30-year plaque

a few years back, I asked if they could put Nirvana on my plaque for the years when I was at Polygram and I worked it for them under the table. So quickly, because we haven't really talked about it, Ivor, you mentioned at the beginning of the program, you mentioned the rotations and you said 10 times to whatever times would be maximum rotation. That was the 80s. In the 1990s, the top 40 format was also implemented around the time when Smells Like Teen Spirit was released.

So we were playing big songs, I'd say 40 to 50 times a week. Or no, sorry. Yeah, a week. It would be a week. So you were hearing Smells Like Teen Spirit every hour and a half or something like that. That's a completely, that's a road we could go down and get into. But we're kind of going long in the tooth here, I think so. But anyway, my point is, is that, yeah, times were different that way too.

Rotation was everything. High rotation, A, we call the category A. was everything high rotation a we call the category a that was a song that was in a massive rotation would get about to 45 to 50 spins a week we'll say then you'd have b c d and that would be songs that would get spun 20 to 30 times and then it would continue down um one category was can con i think that was f uh and that would get usually Canadian content, unless it was the Tragically Hip or Our Lady Peace, would stay in the CanCon category. So it wouldn't get massive spins. But I mentioned the Hip and Our Lady Peace because they did. They broke out of that category. So the CanCon would get 15 to 20 spins a week, we'll say. And then we'd have

recurrence and gold and that kind of thing just to set up what happened. But my point is, is that Smells Like Teen Spirit was a monster song. Absolutely. But, you know, it's one of those songs for me personally, I could never hear it again. And I'll be happy because it was just so frigging overplayed by everybody. It doesn't have the lasting caliber to me that say love like blood by killing joke did that was came out in 1985 because they never played it more than 15 times a week yeah and they also ripped they ripped off killing joke did they not with the come as you are what was that song 80s like a little bit of the riff in there a little bit yeah i shouldn't say ripped up but again homage neil in the 90s you know i i hate to circle back to fish but um were there

any bands that you personally had a reaction like i can't believe we're playing this but i've been outvoted or whatever you know know, bands that got into rotation, um, where, where we just sort of caught you off guard. Maybe a band that you can't believe we're playing this. Well, fish, I will be honest, but that's just personal taste. I mean, fish to me sounded like the grateful dad. Um, I remember one that I remember one that you, I know who you're going to say. No, I think, I think it was counting pros. It was like, I remember hearing you on the air know who you're going to say. I think it was Counting Pros.

I remember hearing you on the air and it was Long December and I go, oh, it's going to be a Long December without playing this one. That was part of my shtick. I feel like CFNY did not play Mr. Jones for some reason. Am I wrong? Ah, boy, that's a good one. My money's on Cam being correct with this

because I feel like that was too poppy, too mainstream, and I think they took ah boy i could totally be wrong my money's on cam being correct with this uh because yeah i feel like that was too poppy too mainstream and i think they took like cf and y took a pass maybe because yeah because i because i do remember when they started playing that album that had long december the first single was the angels of the silences and i remember hearing it specifically on cf and y i'm like what the fuck is this song for right Yeah, we did. I can't really speak to this because I wasn't part of it, but we did a lot of market research in those days and we found that the lighter the music was, the more the audience liked it. So I think in the mid-90s, Cam, that whole era that

you're talking about, you know, Dave Matthews Band, Sheryl Crow, The Fish, all kind of counting crows, just kind of light kind of sounding. So edge light, if you will. It's kind of where it went. Because I think Billboard around that time introduced like the adult alternative charts to sort of encompass this and also like Crash Test Dummies.

Like Sheryl Crow, right? Isn't Sheryl Crow like added? Or like even like Hootie and the Blast almost a catalyst for that and then of course we had much more music came in in that time frame too for Joan Osborne for example yeah perfect yeah just a stranger on the bus trying to I laugh because Ivor I thought you were going to bring up Joan Osborne because I had said some nice things yeah I said some less than nice things about her on the air. It was my shtick back then.

I would tap into bands like Lenny Kravitz. I fucking hated that guy. He was a dick to me twice. So it wasn't nice to him. And whoever it was at Virgin Records at the time, they hated me because that was their priority, Lenny Kravitz. And I used to call him Lenny Crab Nuts on the air. And, you know, me and Martinny Crab Nuts on the air and you know me and Martin would

just slaughter these acts on the air Joan Osborne was one of Ivor's up-and-comers and and I had said some not nice things about Joan Osborne I think I called her a one-hit wonder or something and the next thing you know because back in these days we had fax machines and Ivor sent about 300 pages of Joan Osborne press to our music department on my behalf saying fucking one hit wonder here's your fucking one hit wonder brother Bill and he just shoved these faxes up your ass I was passionate about my act I was trying to do my job. Rightly so. That was your job. You know who we need to talk about?

Who? Guns and fucking roses. Appetite for destruction. Q107 band. I'm going to speak before the people who are there speak. I was listening to a lot of Q107 at the time. I feel like some acts were such Q107 seven bands that CF and Y

wouldn't touch him. Like isn't guns and roses, a prototypical CF Q and Oh seven. I'd say guns and Rose. It was kind of like, to me it would be, you know, Nirvana for CF and Y and guns and roses for Q.

Right. Right. Yeah. That's I like that. Because I was listening to go ahead, brother. I'm sorry. I was going to say on the video road show sweet child of mine was song number

three every time we played doesn't matter where so that was one of those ones we have to play G.I. right or you have to play November Rain or whatever or you know like in the very early days you still have to

play Stairway to Heaven on the road show. And then it kind of morphed into The Power of Love because you needed one or two slow jams. Especially when you're doing high schools, right? But I think the Frankie Goes to Hollywood, when that finally hit, you're going, okay, you're going to do Art and Noise, Moments and Love, or Frankie Goes to Hollywood.

I was going to say. Right? Brother, we got to drain the swamp here because I just did look at the clock. But is there a story about not adding OMC's How Bizarre to the CFNY? Yeah. Just, I mean, briefly, OMC were a band out of New Zealand. They came out of nowhere in 1995 with a song called How Bizarre. Big Much Music hit.

It was monster. Much Music added it right out of the gate, and that put pressure on us to play it. And Neil Mann, God love him, stood his ground and said, no, we're not playing it. He didn't feel it was right for us. He was our music director. I respected him. And I was, I love the song because the very first line in the song, he says, brother Bill is in the back. And so I was like, hey, this is really cool. Let's play this. And Neil's like, nope, we're not playing it. It's not us.

And we never played it. So it's unfortunate, but much music took it and ran with it. And it was a monster hit and you know god bless him because it ended up you know that guy ended up dying at the age of 40 but he had a pretty good life and he started off in the suburbs of it was a i worked that record and and when i was at polygram and it was a number one hit in canada it was the first place to go number one outside of New Zealand. He was like a reformed gang member or something.

Yes, he definitely had a street life behind him, but he was a sweetheart as a person. He was really great to work with. Really, really, really great. Brother Pele's in the back, sweet sinners in the front Foozing down the freeway in the hot, hot sun Suddenly red blue lights, flashlights from behind Loud voice booming, please step out onto the line Pele, preach words of comfort, sinners just hide their eyes Policeman taps the shades, is that a Chevy 69?

How bizarre How bizarre, how bizarre Destination unknown, as we pull in for some gas Officially placed a poster, reveals a smile from the back Elephants and acrobats, lion, snake, monkey Veil is big, righteous, sister, sinner, says funky How was I? How was I?

How was I? Ooh, baby Ooh, baby It's making me crazy It's making me crazy Every time I look around Every time I look around Every time I look around, every time I look around, every time I look around, it's a mad face. Ring mouse and stiff zap says the elephants have come.

People jump and jive and the clowns are stuck around. TV news and cameras, there's choppers in the sky Marines, police, reporters, us, red, four and white Pele, yeah, we're out of here, seen us, seen right on Making moves and starting grooves before they knew we were gone Jumped into the Chevy, headed for big lights Wanna know the rest, hey, by the rights, how bizarre How bizarre, how bizarre

Ooh, baby, ooh, baby It's making me crazy, it's making me crazy Every time I look around Every time I look around Every time I look around Every time I look around It's in my face It's in my face Ooh, baby Ooh, baby

It's making me crazy It's making me crazy, it's making me crazy Every time I look around Every time I look around Every time I look around Every time I look around It's in my face Ooh, baby, ooh, baby It's making me crazy, it's making me crazy face ooh baby ooh baby it's making me crazy

it's making me crazy every time I look around every time I look around every time I look around it's in my face okay Neil

Neil okay just this could be simple. Two questions for you. Just yes, no. Were these songs played on CFNY? Cantaloupe by Us Three. Yes or no? No. No.

Okay, second song. Lucas with the Lit Off by Lucas. Man, that's good. Because I think of him, when I see that guy, I think of MC 900-foot Jesus, who was played on CFNY, but I don't think Lucas would have been. I think you should have played the Cantaloupe song. That's a good song.

Cam, I don't remember, to tell you the truth, so I'm going to have to say no. I don't think we did. I say no. MC 900-foot Jesus got played because he was signed, Mark Griffith was signed to Network Records out of Vancouver. I remember hearing that on the air. Truth is not an obstacle.

Is that the song? What was that? Truth is out of style. Truth is out of style. That was the fucking song. The big song was The City Sleeps. Oh, I thought, okay, Truth is Out of Style was the one I... He had a, If I Only Had a Brain, he had that song.

Yeah, that was afterwards. Yeah. Wow. Hey, when you guys talked about how bizarre, I was thinking about Crazy Town's Butterflies. Oh, God. Which is essentially, that's a Red Hot Chili Peppers song that they just like rap or sing over.

Anyone remember this thing? Yeah, that's just a... Come my buddy. That's from Mother's Milk. I know it from Mother's Milk, that that medley but go ahead brother i'm walking through a grocery store here the other day and i hear that song and i'm just like shifty shell shock was the biggest fucking poser of all time that was his name the worst shifty shell shock yeah. He was just, he was like Mark McGrath, but 10 times worse. Without the charm.

I mean, that really was like the intersection of like boy bands and new metal. Yes. Like that's exactly what that was. So I, so quickly, I'll tell you this, Cam. Yes, please. I've, Live Earl Jive, who was one of the reasons why I got into radio also because of Ivor as well. who was one of the reasons why I got into radio also because of Ivor as well but Ivor O'Jive was our music director in like 88 89 before Chris Shepard took over the duty as music director for a little bit obviously after Ivor's time we used to play songs off carts which were like an eight

track kind of thing one day I see a cart in the studio and it says N- O T B. And I'm like, well, that's interesting. What the hell is N K O T B? And Earl, like a German band. Yeah. Right.

He comes and he says, Oh, it's this import band from Europe or something like that. And I, he said, why don't you play it tonight and see if you get any reaction. And I remember putting it on and thinking, what the fuck is this shit?

And, and it was New Kids on the Block. Is it hanging tough? It was one of the first singles. I think it might have been hanging tough. I don't know. That's the first one. I will say Earl always had that top 40 taste. He had some very eclectic taste, but always top 40.

I mean, he still puts out his playlist to this day, and it's a mix of whatever's cool, and he's always got four or five top 40 songs in there he's not a four there's no format for earl that's for sure okay so before we find out where we can hear iver hamilton today and we thank him you know profusely for being on this debut episode of our new sub series because i can't think of a better guest to have if we're gonna have have an episode called CFNY Not. Cam, Brother Bill, anything else in your notes you need?

This is the time if you have to spit out your final questions here. Final one. We kind of danced around this one. Grateful Dead. Did they ever get played on CFNY? They would have in the early days. I would say that specifically Jim Reed,

he would probably play a little bit of their stuff. Because there was guys that kind of liked a little bit of that stuff. Like he would play, you know, Steely Dan would get some spins. He liked Todd Rundgren. And occasionally there would be Grateful Dead but like you know just also remember the library was so big there was those bands that they might get played twice a year and I think

that's kind of the treatment that Grateful Dead would get like you know you could count the amount of spins on one hand that it would get but it was in the library probably the Working Man's Dead record was the one that got played yeah kind of like that one brother bill any final uh questions for iver hamilton not really a question but i i i just

wanted to make the comment if i could first of all iver congratulations on i believe 33 years at universal music that's pretty incredible my friend that's uh That's coming up next month. So thank you. 33 years at Universal. That's unbelievable. I remember the day we met. You would come into Sam the Record Man in the Bramley City Center, where you once worked. Yes.

And you were wearing a Suicidal Tendencies t-shirt, which was my favorite band at the time. And Ivor told me to keep pestering him until he could give me a job which I did I called him every Wednesday at 3 30 uh till for about six months till you got me a job interview with Don Burns what and and I got in there and my life changed because of that and to to to say in 2021 that Ivor is one of my best friends blows my mind still to this day because I was a fan boy like you guys are of CF and wife, just maybe the 80s. I thought you were going to say like we are of you.

No, no, no, no, no. I thought you were going to say all you wanted was a Pepsi. I wanted a Pepsi. That's right. No, Ivor is one of my best friends. And the career that this man has had is just, you don't meet people like Ivor anymore. So I just wanted to say, Ivor, congratulations on everything, and I'm glad we're still talking, my friend.

Oh, it's my absolute pleasure. Thank you for your valiant try on trying to bring out the Bramchester sound when the Manchester sound was out there with your band, The Coles. I always think it's quite memorable. That's another show. I appreciate, you know, for mentioning what I've done over the years at Universal. And, you know, I've ordered Dave Grohl's book that's just come out because I read a quote in the Globe and Mail last week where he was interviewed. And he said, music has always been my best friend.

And you know, it's like Dave Grohl is like, does stuff like does car door openings, but you know what? That really hit home with me. And I'm like, I really want to read your book because of that for him saying that music has always been his best friend, because I think for all of us, I, I will, I'm only guessing speculately, but I think it's all being our best friends too. Before the formal farewell, which is imminent, I promise. Did you guys play Cindy Lauper on CFNY?

Not very much. I, I think that it's like one of those ones that, you know what, we added it, but it was one of those ones that it might have got some light spins for a little bit. I will say that we played Nina 99 left balloons a lot more than we played Cindy Lauper. So we had Katrina in the waves, but Cindy Lauper would have been very, very minimal. I saw what Brother Bill did there,

pointing at his armpits. She's French. Come on. German. More Nina Hagen and more slits than anything else. Plasmatics, were they?

They got a little bit of play, but not much. I mean, the plasmatics were were they? They got a little bit of play, but not much. I mean, the Plasmatics were more, you know, for show than they were a good band. In my opinion, you know. How about Quar? How about Quar? No. Ivor, you mentioned nythespirit.com.

This is, of course, the love child of David Marsden, right? And it's where we can hear you today. Do you want to shout out when we could hear some Ivor Hamilton on nythespirit.com? Yes, you can hear my program. It's the Teardown and it airs four times a week. It's the debut or the first airing Sundays, or sorry, Tuesdays at seven. And then we're on 11 o'clock sorry, Tuesdays at seven. And then we're on 11 o'clock Wednesdays, 2 a.m. on Fridays and 4 p.m. on Sundays. So it's a, you know, it's a good mix of new and old. I mean, most of the time it's,

it's older stuff, but I always try and play, you know, a lot of new bands that I, that I, you know, come across or whatever. So I have a lot of fun doing it. It's a, it's a, it just helps me help me keep, keep current with what's going on and then play a lot of bands that I know people will probably have forgotten about. So. Well, Ivor, you've raised the bar for all future guests of ours. Uh, thanks for doing this and, uh, Cam and brother Bill, awesome first episode. And there's's more and the fun part of this program is it's just gonna drop whenever like it's like suddenly when you least expect it there it is

like that's just so cool and that's how we're gonna roll with this sucker it's like a like a disease no this is this is so much fun oh my, my God. I'm like a contact. Going this deep is just, yeah, hits me in all the feels. This was awesome. Thank you. I hope that people enjoyed as much as I did doing this with you guys, and I'm really looking forward to future episodes. And the sky's the limit.

We can talk whatever we want, talk about whatever we want. I mean, I presume we're going to try and keep it musical, but, you, it's just, it's just a blast sitting around talking music and especially with a legend like Ivor. Well, it's my pleasure guys. It was really great to talk to you and happy to talk to you in the future. If there's anything else that you guys want to talk about.

So thank you. Thank you so much. Love it. And that brings us to the end of our 933rd show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Brother Bill is at Neil Talks. Cam Gordon is at Cam underscore Gordon.

Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Chef Drop is at Get Chef Drop. Mineris is at GetChefDrop. Manaris is at Manaris. McKay's CEO Forums are at McKay's CEO Forums. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home is at Ridley FH. And Mike Majeski of Remax Specialists Majeski Group

is at Majeski Group Homes on Instagram. See you all next week. Oh, where you been? Because everything is kind of rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold, but the snow, snow Wants me to dance And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine And it won't go away Because everything is ros Rose and green Well you've been under my skin

For more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter And eight years of tears And I don't know what the future Can hold or do For me and you But I'm a much better man For having known you I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you. But I'm a much better man for having known you.

Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and green. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow wants me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. ¶¶ ¶¶ But I wonder who Yeah, I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of grey Cause I know that's true Yes, I do I know it's true, yeah

I know it's true How about you? Are they picking up trash trash and then putting down ropes And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But here's the damn Because everything is coming up

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Rosie and Gray Yeah, yeah And everything is rosy and gray