Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Charlie Angus: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1503

Episode Date: June 7, 2024

In this 1503rd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with punk rock MP Charlie Angus about why he's not running in the next federal election, forming L'Étranger with Andrew Cash, and his past and present with Grievous Angels. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada, The Yes, We Are Open podcast from Moneris, The Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball Team and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1503 of Toronto Miked, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. PTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. The Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. The best baseball in the city outside the dome. I'm recording live from Christie Pitts this Sunday.

That's only in a couple of days. I'm there at 2pm. Drop by, say hi, I'm beyond the left field fence. RecycleMyElectronics.ca. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Season 6 of Yes We Are Open, an award-winning Monaris podcast, hosted by FOTML Grego and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto mic debut is the MP for Timmons James Bay, it's Charlie Angus. Welcome Charlie. Thanks so much. I'm kind of stoked to be on your show.

Is that the truth? That's the real deal. I trust you You got to trust me. That's your stone then that I look in your eyes right now You look like a stoke gentleman right now, but it's an honor to have you you're the punk rock politician so we've got a lot of ground to cover and we're gonna cook with gas and do this in 60 minutes a couple of quick notes here because You do so much. So it's like where do I go but Peter Muir once just says I grew up in Timmins so I'm looking very much forward to this one so did you like when did you arrive here in Toronto for this for this weekend did you come

from Timmins I came from Ottawa because we're still in the parliamentary session so this weekend I'll be I'm in Toronto all weekend and I love being in Toronto you're at the Horseshoe Tavern on So it's funny. I'm at Christie Pitts for a recording at 2 p.m Sunday, which means I can't be at Horseshoe Tavern for 1 p.m Grievous Angels last call for Cinderella album release show so you're in you're in town because you got that gig at the horseshoe Yeah, we are we're launching album number nine last call for Cinderella and I Just love the horseshoe tavern. It's one of the last

Great venues that's still standing. We're seeing live music disappearing everywhere and I kind of sometimes worry that we're becoming dinosaurs of a culture that's that's that's under threat everywhere and the horseshoe is defiant and it's staying staying proud and it's still there and just seems like the perfect place for the Grievous Angels to launch our new record. Did you ever play at the Phoenix or the Diamond Club before that? I played at all of them yes. Well that's the news I guess that news just dropped this past week but I guess if there was rumblings for a while that a development was gonna happen at 410 Sherbourne but yeah the Phoenix I mean there's there's a venue

That's going to be gone soon. I guess we got early 2025. It's gone and long may the horseshoe Tavern run It's it's amazing to get to see Grievous Angels there Sunday at 1 p.m I we're gonna have a lot of music chat in this conversation probably more music than anything But you know know we've established the fact you're an MP but you did announce that you're not running for re-election in the 45th federal election the next one so you announced that in April but just definitively on Toronto mic right now why Charlie Angus are you not running for re-election in the next federal election? Well, number one, becoming a politician was never on my bingo card of life plans.

I very much was an accidental politician. I got active in the fight to stop Toronto's garbage from going to the Adams mine, and I realized what a corrupt deal that was. I met Jack Layton, who was a city councillor. He told me, he said, Charlie, we need people like you. We need people with passion, people who are rooted at the grassroots. So I ran in 2004. I've won seven elections, 20 plus years. That's way more than a lifetime in politics. But my riding is bigger than

the United Kingdom and they decided that my riding wasn't big enough, so in the next election they've added 20,000 extra kilometers, about a dozen more towns. It's easier for me to drive from my home to Ottawa than to some of the new communities. Wow. And you know, I've been a part-time dad, part-time husband. I love my little town of Cobalt, this ragged little mining town, and I don't know hardly anybody in it anymore because I'm never home. And I want to play with the Grievous Angels. And so I figure after 20-some years on Northern highways, it's time to time to change things up a bit. I still am gonna be

very active politically, I think. Maybe more grassroots, maybe more on the streets, and doing just stuff that I love doing. So when did you make this decision? And does it have any correlation with putting together Last Call for Cinderella? I realized during the pandemic how much I've been away and how much I missed. We recorded our previous album, Summer Before the Storm, just literally on the eve of the storm of the pandemic. And I was really inspired by the new lineup of the band. I wasn't wanting to play more with them.

And so Last Call for Cinderella was a project that became really exciting to be part of. And I realized that's a part of who I am. It's a part of, I think part of what the Canadian story can be. The Grievous Angels have always tried to play a role of telling who we are. So yeah, if I was doing another round of politics, this album wouldn't have been, it wouldn't have been possible to make it. You're returning to your roots. I am, I never thought I got too far from my roots. My wife said to me

when I ran for politics, she said, if you come home talking like a politician, I'm gonna smother you. And I said, would you keep that promise please? And so, that's true love right there. That's true love. That's, that's, that's when you, you married an Alberta wife and she just said, you know, I married an Alberta wife. Did you? There you go. So yeah. From Edmonton, Alberta. Same with mine. Get out of here. Okay, wild. She's an Oilers fan. I'm living with an Oilers fan. I mean, I'm actually, I just, so she's kind of a playoff Oilers fan, to be honest. I never see the Oilers on the TV during the regular season and then suddenly we're Oilers family and we're watching the Oilers games. Now, you know,

my Leafs went out in six games. trying to know seven games right over time. I'm trying to remember it all. I'm trying to erase it from my memory. But bottom line is I'm watching this team advance, you know, to the Stanley Cup final and she's happy and I want to be happy for her and I am happy for her. But I'm also kind of like super jealous. Like I just like, like, I don't know what this I actually will tell you now. I've never I haven't been alive to see my team advance as far as Edmonton has advanced this season like it's not fair well just throwing it

out I don't know I begged my daughter not to be a Leaf fan I said become a leaf that's true love I say I said this is the best advice your dad can give you do not become a leaf and it'll ruin your life like it ruined mine and it's ruined her life so so I've always loved the oilers i i love the oilers i love the old oilers they just said i love the old oilers so you know i'm i'm there i'm i'm i'm content at this point i'm okay well i'll be watching uh was it tomorrow night i'll be watching don't worry and uh i'll be cheering for the edmonton oilers for sure okay let's go so speaking of going back to your roots, oh, you mentioned Cobalt.

So I just wanna let you know, I got a note as well. The W Beach is the name of the handle who wants to just says, I love Cobalt. So is Cobalt also a book you wrote? Yes. How many books have you written? I am just finishing the final proofs for book number nine called Dangerous Memory,

how the 80s upended everything. And it is a story of how this young generation got totally screwed over by what went down in the 80s, but it's also a lot about Toronto and what I, the punk scene, what was happening. So that's the new book. The last book was Cobalt, which is the town I live in, but also the town that really opened the doors

of a lot of stuff in terms of mining, resource exploitation, and the other Canadian histories we never tell. Okay, well, that sounds amazing, but this new book, this unreleased book, I need to get you back to dive deeper into that because maybe we'll touch on a little bit of it right now because you moved to Toronto, I guess in 1973, but I want to talk about let me play a little music talk to you about Early days for you. And then of course, we'll catch up with the Grievous Angels and everything but just a little taste of this They're fighting the poor in South Africa They're fighting in some little town Some people say, well that's just the way things are

But I say we cannot keep them down One people in South Africa One people everywhere One people gotta stand together Yeah, we gotta show, we gotta show show, we got a show we can. What are we listening to, Charlie? That was the song One People by our band, Le Trangé, which was one of the first rock videos out and capturing the moment in the 80s, the fight against apartheid.

You know, there was a time in the 90s and that, I kind of cringed when I heard that song, I thought, God, we were idealism on our sleeves and that. But I think now, like, how important those moments were when young people were just standing up. I mean the apartheid regime was so brutal and it seemed like this wall that could never be defeated artists activists and Our band was part of that and our band was involved in the fight against the rise of the extreme right that was happening In the city the rock against racism movement and I I think now we're in this moment again like I see young people standing up on in Gaza and being denounced in the media as as

radicals and extremists and blah blah blah. It's like if you're on the wrong side of young people in a movement for justice, you're on the wrong side of history. So that was that moment of our time with Le Tronje and Andrew Cash on vocals. Tell me a bit about Andrew Cash. It's interesting how you both end up in politics, but you're still close with Andrew. Andrew and I are like brothers. I mean, we have very much a similar background. We met when we

were 14. We went to the same Catholic parish in Scarborough. We both learned to play guitar with the same plan was that we were going to quit school, form a band and go on the road. And we literally, that was our plan and we kept to that plan. And then when I got elected, to that plan. And then when I got elected, it was funny that Andrew then got elected. So we are the only two parliamentarians in the Westminster system of government that opened for the dead Kennedys. I would say that's a fun fact. That is a good fact, yes. That's a great fun fact. And okay, now, tell me a little bit, I just want to get a taste.

I kind of miss the 80s, you know, scene in Toronto. I talk to a lot of people who are there. I'm fascinated by it all. I can't wait to read this new book. What's the name of your upcoming book? It's called Dangerous Memory. Dangerous Memory. And whenabouts are you aiming to release this book into the wild? We're looking at this book coming out within House of Anansi Press probably the end of September. And you'll be, oh you'll be, you know, we'll see when, yeah, I guess we'll see when you're no longer MP and you'll have a lot more time in your hand to come by and chat it up.

But I love talking about this scene. Like tell me about co-founding this band. Like whenever I read up about your band with Andrew there, I always want to butcher the pronunciation. Le tranger? Le tranger. Le tranger. I need a better French accent. My kids have a better French accent than I do, but they often label it a punk rock band. It's punk, it's punk. Now I don't even know how to define punk. Like is punk a

sound? Is punk an ethos? Is Lois little low punk because Ron Hawkins has punk ideologies? Well, Lois and Lo, I think one of their first gigs was opening for us, so I give them definite punk creos. Punk is an attitude. Right. And it was DIY. It was recognizing that things didn't have to be the way we were told they were. At that time, the music scene was really bloated and arrogant and lazy, and there were a lot of young people who felt like they were very much on the margins we were coming into a really dangerous Cold War with the Reagan years we were literally on the verge of global annihilation there was we were in the worst economic recession since the depression and yet in Toronto at that time there was this incredible explosion of creativity.

And part of that was driven by the economics of the recession, because it was low rent. There were all these... Toronto was deindustrializing at a staggering rate. You could rent lofts, bands could get practice spaces. You could make mistakes, and it didn't cost you a lot. So, you know, university wasn't all that expensive. So it was an opportunity of flowering and people were trying things and also it was a very political time and I write a lot about that in terms of how young people were dealing

with a world that was seen, like very much today, a world that seemed very much in crisis yet there was this moment. And I write a lot about my heartbreak for Toronto because it was, to me, such a magical place, and it's now become one of the most exclusive cities in the world. You know, we turned over these beautiful neighbourhoods to global capitalism and condification, and yet it had this this mix of neighborhoods. So I write a lot about how all these things went down. The economics, the neoliberal agenda that stripped workers of their pensions, it stripped our neighborhoods of livable housing and sold us this

lie of the globalization, which it's all falling apart now and we're gonna have to think of a new way of living. And so the book covers that and it covers a lot of the bands, the scenes, the places we were playing, the world that I was growing up in. Wow, you know what, you totally bummed me out here because you're right, I talked to these artists coming up in Toronto in the 80s and they're renting, I don't know, I'm thinking now, I'm thinking of of well, there's so many bands Kim Mitchell's band for example

Like they're oh He's telling me it cost him a hundred bucks a month or whatever to pay the rent and he could be a starving artist And they could figure it out or whatever but today I guess you need what I guess the secret to being a punk rocker in Toronto is have rich parents is that the is that the Well, you know, I mean, my wife and I moved in together, she was a student from Alberta and I made 60 to 100 bucks a week as a dishwasher and we had an apartment, right? And you just did enough dishwashing shifts so you could play music or do politics. And you know, when

my oldest daughter moved back and was living in Toronto with a middle-class wage and having to have three roommates, I like okay there's something wrong with this picture here and and so those are stuff I'm writing about now in my ages like what's what's going on with the the the economy that people are being driven down like this so you've got you know the big single I played there one people which you you mentioned got played on much music if you didn't mention you mentioned the video but so so was much music playing it? Would CFNY play it? Where is the, who's playing in this city? Who's playing Letranche?

In those days, the main rock stations wouldn't touch new music at all. Not even CFNY? No, CFNY did play. CFNY was the exception. CFNY broke a lot of acts. Brave New Waves, which was CBC, when CBC really seemed to care a lot about music. They kept it, they didn't start playing it until 11 o'clock at night, but that was alright because that's when Kids in Regina got to hear the band because the music was, it was sort of like underground. And one of the interesting things with CFNY was we were up for a big award as the top upcoming band. And yet the people, some of the sponsors had big money in South Africa and we didn't go to the award ceremony.

And it sent a message that we were this difficult band, a band that was hard to deal with. You know, we didn't really, really didn't want to give CFNY a black eye But in those days the lines were really really drawn sort of like what's happening now today with artists and students on the Hamas The Israel the Gaza crisis like we we didn't go to the awards ceremony and it cost our band I think big time, but if we had to do it all over again, we probably would do the same thing now Is this the is this caspies or you knows? These are the you know, you know words you shout out to FOTM David Marston Yeah And CFNY was like it was such a great station at the time to play stuff that you know

The mainstream was not interested in we know David let his DJs in this spirit of radio era play what they want Essentially like they had certain con you know, there's a can-con rule and certain rules but really they could within the certain parameters you could just go to the the shelf and pull out the record and play what you want which is unheard of today of course well it was unheard of at the time I mean you know we were playing a big show in Ottawa and one of the big DJs from the big mainstream rock station came and he was hanging out backstage and he loved the band. And I said, if you love us, why don't you play? Right. Right. And he said, I my program is for people who aren't interested in music.

They want to hear Kansas. They want to hear Led Zeppelin. You know, they want to hear Toto. They don't want to hear anything new or exciting. And again, you know, it's like we're in a time where people are trying to break through with different sounds. And so I'm seeing a real correlation now that I got gray hair and I'm an older dude, but I'm like, yeah, you know, like break the mold. You got gray hair, but at least you have hair, right? Sure. I don't complain about the color as long as I got it. You're speaking from my handbook here. You know, I got hair. I don't care what happens with the pigmentation here.

Alright, I'm going to play another song because we're going to talk about what happens with La Tronje. Let's play a little bit of... Name that tune there Charlie. Gordy and My Old Man on a Saturday Night from the One Job Town album with... This is our great hockey tribute. Actually I've written a few hockey tributes but this was fun. But daddy ain't like you'd ever be He's fast and he's sharp And he's wild about me

Ooh He's been three kids in seven years Boy, he works with that hard and cases of beer And I ain't as shapely as I used to be But I like Gordy and, well, he likes me. Ooh. Gordy and my old man on a Saturday night. Watching the blackhawks and getting tired.

Nothing ever changes in this world of mine. It's Gordy and my old man on a Saturday night. Okay, before we talk about this band, what happens to La Trongée? About 1984, I think we'd hit the wall. Again, we were seen as too political, maybe too problematic. Andrew Cash and I talked about it. I left, I started working with the homeless in the streets of Toronto, which was quite an education. And Andrew got signed by Island Records and went on to starting to tour and to travel.

And I just thought... Boomtown. Boomtown, yeah. Huge. Boomtown, we wrote that together while I was working in our house for the homeless and Andrew was staying over in between European tours so Boomtown was one the Juno for video of the year. I actually loaded it up. I'm like if it comes up organically I'm gonna play a

little bit only because it would it seemed to me as a younger man to be everywhere Boomtown, Andrew Cash. Sounded like a big, felt like a big deal. It was also showing how music was changing. We were talking about people being forced out of their homes in Toronto at a time of the rising level of inequity. And it was like a top 10 pop hit, so. Yeah, without a doubt here.

Okay, so maybe we'll come back to Boomtown just a little bit later. But what we're listening to now is Grievous Angels. So, what causes you to co-found Grievous Angels? Tell me a lot about Grievous Angels, because later we'll play new Grievous Angels, because Grievous Angels, as you pointed out, just dropped their eighth album, Last Call for Cinderella. Well, the funny thing was, we just started out street busking. It was coming out of punk. I was really interested in the music I'd grown up with, which was my mom.

We grew up on Cape Breton, Celtic Irish stuff, and we did a lot of sing-alongs at home. My mom also loved like old Hank Williams, and I was rediscovering a lot of that kind of rootsy stuff. My bass got stolen at our house for the homeless so I didn't have any electric instruments. I had an acoustic guitar and we just started forming a street busking band going out Saturday mornings and throwing songs together and then I started writing for that sound and the next thing we knew we were getting invites to play like the big folk festivals in Western Canada and then the Grievous Angels were back on the, we were suddenly a band and we were back at it and but we completely sort of fallen into it.

That song when I listened to it, Gordian, my old man, I get a Bruce Springsteen vibe. Like I get a little bit of like almost like a little bit of like a almost like a Jim Steinman meatloaf flavor from the 70s. Well, do you hear any of that in there? There's like a little bit of a, like I hear, it feels a little bit like a Bruce song from the 70s. Well, I've always loved Bruce Springsteen's writing. He's always been a big influence, just the way he wrote about people. And that song, Gordy and My Old Man on a Saturday night, is a very fun song. But it, I met a girl that I knew and I said so you know did your did your old man ever like your your boyfriend and she says man all they

ever do is sit and watch hockey on Saturday night I didn't expect that that was gonna be how my life turned out and I said voila that's the story of love and romance in Canada the son-in-law and the father-in-law getting tight watching the Blackhawks every Saturday night and she has to sit there with them. Shout out to the biggest Blackhawks fan I know, Mo Berg. Okay, shout out to Mo Berg there. Still wandering the streets there in Toronto. Let me give you a couple of quick gifts here.

You're an MP, you're allowed to accept gifts, right? If they're under a certain amount of dollars. Yeah, yeah, don't worry. I don't mind. I'll be brought up on charges. Well, I just had a CBC guy on here whose boss has said he's not allowed to accept my many lucrative gifts I give. Like, like he literally had to say no. It was like a CBC guy was not allowed to accept gifts. And then I was thinking, oh, because you know, I've had, I've

had MPs on and they, they, they walk away with their gifts. Happily. I just wondered what the rules were, but you'll take it. You'll take a risk risk you're on your way out now okay they can charge me yeah I'm not I'm not accepting anything from foreign governments that just I'm putting out of so this is not from a well okay what about a guy a book written by a guy who it's safe to say passionately dislikes the NDP will you accept this gift this is Bruce Dobe again okay he's a great writer great hockey writer he's living in Calgary now, and I don't think he likes your party's policies very much.

You'll still accept that book, right? It sucks to be him, but yeah. Tell him I'm coming. He knows, he knows. Tell him I'm coming for him. He's coming for him, okay. But okay, so Bruce Dobigan and his son, Evan, his son Evan actually lives in Long Branch,

not far from here, or Alderwood, anyway, near here, south of Tobaco. But they wrote a book. I took no money to actually endorse this. I like to endorse this book. I took zero dollars and zero cents to push here. But he self-published. And I like you.

I like this DIY punk aesthetic. With this program you're on right now, it couldn't be more, I'm doing it all myself. I gotta book you, I gotta do my homework, I load up the songs, I greet you at the door, I got you a glass of water, I told you not to hit your head. You know, there's no people here. It's just you, I gotta do my homework, I load up the songs, I greet you at the door, I got you a glass of water, I told you not to hit your head. You know, there's no people here,

it's just you and I, Charlie. And self-publishing a book, as you may know, is very difficult in this country. So to help raise awareness, I'm giving out copies, and I know you're a hockey fan. So this is called Deal With It, The Trades That Stunned the NHL NHL and changed hockey. I think it's a good book to read after listening to Gordy on Saturday night.

I will read it, yes. It's got the Gilmore trade in there, okay? That's all you need to know. But there's the trades that stunned the world of hockey. So you got to read that. But I was paid to endorse something else here. I got to disclose that. But it's amazing. I can't wait to be there on Sunday, but there is free professional semi-pro baseball happening at Christie Pits all summer long. The Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team plays there. It's an excellent caliber of baseball, but it's a great vibe. You fill the hill at Christie Pits and drink a beer there without getting arrested. That's a nice new development. You can enjoy the great food. So I'm giving you the history of the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. Another book for you,

Charlie. I know you like to read. So... Oh, that's fantastic. And I did these trades. Yes, I'm... I will read it. He might hate my politics. But... You know, he wasn't always that way. He tells me moving out west changed his view on everything. And yeah, maybe I need an episode of Bruce and Charlie to talk this all out. But a couple more quick gifts. We're going to get back to everything here. Loving this very much. By the way, you wrote the biography of Les Costello. Fatherless Yeah, the flying father played the Maple Leafs. Fascinating story, Quit was really famous, infamous in the North, working with the poor. We played, the Grievous Angels played

mass for Father Costello once. We were on a national tour and I called him and we had a list of the things we wanted to do in exploring Canada. We actually showed up one night at his church in Schumacher, Ontario and sang our gospel set during his mass and then he took us all back to go drinking rye in his rectory. But Father Costello was a real character and a great hockey player. Yeah, it's an interesting story to leave, you know, the NHL to become a Catholic priest in Timmins. That's fantastic, so people can check that out too. You don't find there's any clash between, you know, being like, you're such an advocate of

hardworking, you know, you talk about your grassroots activism and what you've been doing with the homeless and, and this whole punk rock ethos DIY, get it done. Does that there's no clash between that and Roman Catholicism? I was baptized as a baby and went through the Catholic school system, so I know a little about what I speak, but you don't see that they can swim together, these two ideologies? Well, I've been, I was the only member of Parliament threatened with excommunication since 1917. Just after I was elected, I had the diocese of Timmons put out a press release that they were going to have me defeated in the election. And I'll

tell you, nothing brought home Catholic votes like being denounced from the pulpit. So, I've been referred to as a dissident Catholic, which I think is a nice place to be. Here's the thing, I grew up at a time in the Toronto diocese, the school systems, we were taught about liberation theology, we had all these role models of working with the poor, social justice, and that was inspiring. That was before the cover-ups, that was before we saw how the church protected the abusers and the sex scandals. And then we also saw how they retreated from being on the front lines of a lot of social justice stuff. So that's their problem.

You know, the faith that I grew up in taught about solidarity. And so I carry that with me. But I, you know, like I said, they call me a dissident Catholic, so I'm, I'm, I like that. So it's not an all or nothing for you here you you can recognize when your your church has ideologies that you know clash with your own personal. Well it's um I was I I come from a wellspring of great roots and great traditions and I don't feel the need that I have to kiss any bishop's ring or sign on to any corruption and the appalling behavior of the church in protecting

some of the worst creeps and predators. That's something they need to explain. So, but you know, we are the grievous angels, so we sing fun songs and we throw in all these mixtures of all kinds of things into them. But Charlie, do you still attend Mass on a Sunday while I still find you in church? I don't rarely go to Mass anymore, but I still go and light candles in odd church halls, and some of my daughters do too. So, but yeah, but it's, you know, that's one thing I decided is that I don't trust politicians who talk about religion. Any politician starts talking about

faith, I tend to get a cold chill and run. So, what I do with my faith in God or the Goddess. That's between you and your God? Between me and the Goddess, yeah. Good for you. All right, I agree with you on that one. Between me and the goddess, yeah. Good for you. Alright, I agree with you on that one too. Alright, quickly, I want to invite everybody, Charlie, I doubt you're in town, but on June 27th, that's a Thursday, it's coming up everybody from 6 to 9 p.m., I'm hosting TMLX 15, that's the 15th Toronto Mic'd listener experience.

It's free to attend your first beer from Great Lakes Brewery. They brew their fresh craft beer right here in South Etobicoke. I have four cans for you to take with you, Charlie. You'll love it. You'll love it. You're really setting me up. Is this Bruce Dobigan's idea of how I'm gonna finally get charged? You know the Ethics Commissioner? He's hiding in the bushes outside with the RCMP out there ready to pounce on you. I have not taken any foreign influence of anything. I want to put that on the record, except Sinn Fein bought me a beer once. OK, well, thank you for revealing that.

But I will put that on the record. And of course, Brood right here in southern Etobicoke couldn't be less foreign if they tried. I can talk to the owner, Peter Bullitt, who lives here in Etobicoke. Just can you assure that he's not backed up by you know the Iranians or the Russians or the you know I just. I'm confident. Okay good. I think you're good on this one.

So again Great Lakes is hosting it like it's going to be at their brewery which is in South Etobicoke 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard. This is June 27 again. Come on out there's no tickets. There's no art. You just show up. The first beer is going to be on the house. Great Lakes is going to buy you your first beer. And then after that you're on your own. But this is awesome. Palma pasta. There's a family run independent Italian eatery. They make delicious Italian food. They're in Mississauga and Oakville. They're going to feed everybody. So come hungry. You got your first beer on the house. You get Palma pasta and you can

celebrate my 50th birthday with me because that's right, Charlie. June 27th, TMLX 15. That's the day I turn the big five. Oh, so I know you're not in town, Charlie. You're off the hook. Geez. Okay. But if you were in town, I'd make sure you showed up. I would have been there. It would have been there. It would have been there It would have been amazing and last but not least I'm sending you home with a it's a quality wireless speaker It's from Monaris. They want you to listen to season 6 of yes, we are open because speaking of Alberta

Al Gregor from Monaris went to Alberta and he's been talking to small business owners about the Challenges that they've faced in their business and then he shares the stories in this awesome podcast called Yes, We Are Open. And we just had Al over here to talk about season six. So with that quality speaker, you can listen to Oh, yes, we are open. While you're listening to this wonderful episode of Toronto Mike with Charlie Angus. How does that sound? Well, I'm going to have to definitely call the ethics commissioner and make sure that you're not getting jailed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it, but you're on your way out, so shout out to Simon Dingley who also was afraid to accept my gift even though his last day was on Friday or something, you know, you can never be too safe here. We

gotta follow the rules. We gotta follow the rules, Charlie, and that's why I got to play this now because I was thinking about it when you were talking about it, and I haven't loaded up. So just a little of this, because it'll bring us back to Grievous Angels, and then we can get to the new stuff. Right. Right. And I got to get Andrew on the show.

Yeah, you got to get Andrew on. I want Andrew on the show. Yeah. Yeah, you gotta get Andrew on the show of mocha cream on my friend I put my hands into my pocket, and what do I find? Just two cold hands, kind of look like mine I don't want to live in this moon town no more. I don't want to judge my love by what I can't afford. I don't want to live in this moon town

while it's bursting down my door when i was younger i used to sing this as boon town because that's my last name boon but this is boom town and so so andrew cash boom town seemingly everywhere when i was really getting into music uh and you say you you co-wrote this with andrew yeah um we were i was this one when I was working with people on the streets and I was beginning to see how it was getting harder and harder for people to find a place to live and This is in the 80s, right?

This is in the late 80s, yeah. This gentrification thing, it's got a long and deep history in Toronto. It wasn't the Brooklyn, they called the Brooklynification of urban life, that's a 21st century thing. It was happening in the late 80s. Anyways, Andrew was coming back from a tour, I think in Europe, he'd been with the Mollis Etheridge maybe, and he was staying at the house and he heard me writing something. He goes, what are you writing? And I said, I got this song called Boomtown, and so we sat down and wrote that together and it still sounds, I hadn't heard it in years, it sounds great. It sounds great. Yeah. it still sounds, I hadn't heard it in years, it sounds great.

It sounds great. It sounds great. And I wasn't familiar with that origin story there. Because I know with Letranje and you leave it to, you know, your social activism and all this important work. And then Andrew's got the solo stuff here, but then you go on and you form, of course we talked about you forming Grievous Angels. Of course, we talked about you forming Grievous Angels and... Yeah, like we're talking now, we're talking like this is, you know, top 40 radio material we're listening to in our headphones right now. It's catchy AF, as the kids would say. Yeah. We're going to get Andrew on Toronto Mic. You got to get him on. Yeah.

I don't know what took me so long. It took me a long time to get Charlie Angus, but you're not often in the T. Dot anymore. So now that you're not going to be a member of Parliament for Timmons James Bay, any plans to move back to Toronto? Are you gonna stay in where you're from? I love my little town. I do underground mine tours starting June 29th. Get Charlie Angus to take you into an early 20th century mine. I do that. My daughter moved home and set up this beautiful tea shop with her boyfriend who's a jazz nominated

jazz singer, Alex Byrd, who's got a great single dropping today called Papaya. You gotta check it out. And so she's bought this little old mine building and I'm her house carpenter and she's doing all kinds of cool things. And you know, she just couldn't afford to live in Toronto. So she's at home in the North. So I got a lot of projects I can be doing out in the North. You got a lot going on.

And you got it all figured out, I feel like. Because I feel like you're nourished spiritually, but you're living your best life and you're doing the things you love and now you're making music again. So let Andrew take us home there. Okay, so let's talk about the new album. And I want to know who else is in Grievous Angels. Talk to me more about Grievous Angels and the new album and then I will play, I promise

to play a new single. We can hear how good it sounds now. Well, the original band, Peter Gillard, who still has his foot in Toronto, who's a brilliant multi-instrumentalist, he brings like the Cajun, the traditional Quebecois, the Irish feel with accordions and mandolins and everything. Tim Hadley, who toured many years with Stomp and Tom, is the anchor of the band. And so then Tim started, he got frustrated that I was too busy in politics, who toured many years with Stomp and Tom is the is the anchor of the band and so then Tim started he got frustrated that I was too busy in politics so he put together his own band that did Grievous Angels songs and he brought in this

great singer from Liverpool, Janet Mercier and I came down I was like wait a minute she's singing my songs I want to get up there and sing with her so that kind of started the new band line up with Janet and I doing a lot of duets which I've always loved as a sound. Alexandra Bell was a beautiful singer and and a keyboardist and her politics are much further left than mine. Nathan Mahaffey is a monster drummer and he comes out of punk rock. Ian McKendry on guitar. So it's a seven piece band. That's a big band to sort of try and get everyone not to be playing on top of each rock. Ian McKendry on guitar, so it's a seven-piece band. That's a big band to sort of try and get everyone not to be playing on top of each other. That sounds like a broken social scene over here. What's going on? I know we are just

like two members shy of broken social scene, but it's just such a great band. So I got excited about writing for them, writing for their voices, writing for the sounds that I could hear coming from this band. So what you're hearing on Last Call for Cinderella was recorded live over three days at Canterbury Studios in Toronto. I mean Jeremy Darby has recorded with everybody on the planet, multiple Grammy Award nominations and wins and everything you hear on the record is pretty much live off the floor. So it was a very, very, very raw live recording and a lot of fun. Very Cowboys, Cowboy Junkies of you. I feel like that's like a Trinity Sessions here for you live on the floor.

Is there any contributions? And I won't be mad if it's not, except I'm such a massive fan of the man and he's been down here. I love this guy. But is there any contribution from Andy Mays on the new album? Andy Mays was on the last album and he just showed up to do one song and hung out and sang on half the record. Yeah, we love Andy Mays. Love that guy. Yeah. Shout out to the Skydiggers. I saw them again. I saw them in Hamilton just last December. And what a gem of a band, Skydigger. Every Skydigger show is my favorite show of all time.

Yeah, and then I've been listening to some of the older Gordowney solo stuff and Josh Finlayson and his contributions and stuff. And you know what, Charlie, we got a great country here with such wonderful musicians. I sometimes worry, I don't know if I even should care, except only the accountants I guess should care, but like sometimes you don't appreciate a Canadian artist until they have an American hit. Do you ever feel

this sense? I'm talking about the the great unwashed, the masses. I think what Canada has, you know, for the Grievous Angels, Canada was an adventure to explore, to discover, and I still have that idealism, that love, that hope, the great spaces, the tolerance, the decency of the people, and you find it in the music. Such great, great artists and writers, Jason Collette, who was part of that scene that we grew up in and contributes on this record, the Sky Diggers, you know, Sarah McLaughlin, like so many, The Spirit of the West. It is, there is a, we all get lumped under Americana, I think technically, but

Canadiana is a different thing and it's, and yeah, it's Weird House, even like, I mean, I'm not going to diss CBC, but I don't hear a lot of those great voices on, you know Our nation's broadcast you have to seek them out You have to you know, they all live on band camp and that but it's such a great It is a great music tradition to be part of speaking of the CBC I got to ask you as a outgoing MP, but Do you personally have any concerns of what happens next federal election should be and it looks likely I'm not saying polls or everything, but it's a very possible

Probably plausible that the Conservative Party forms the next government in this country Do you have any concerns about what becomes of the CBC? I think Pierre Paulia would kill the CBC on day one. We're living in a sea of disinformation and rage politics and having nation national journalists is not something that they want. That's that's that's the right. What does that mean? I hear you say that in my headphones and I have this like, well, that can't happen. But we get like really specific here.

What do you mean? Like like no more government money for CBC, you're on your own, just like, you know, CTV and other Bell Media properties, etc. Like, is this what you're referring to? Well, I mean, he continually denounces it as state media, the state broadcaster, they talk about that they're going to, you know, spend the money on whatever. But I think the CBC is challenged now. I think it needs a real rethink, but it is one of those unique voices right now because journalism is under threat. And we can talk about politics being under threat, but if you don't have a strong independent media challenging

politicians, everything becomes possible in a bad way. And I really see in Parliament the disappearance of, you know, they called it the, you know, the Parliamentary Press Gallery. I mean, they're down, they're down to threads now. And it is a bulwark of democracy and it's also a way the nation hears each other and learns from each other. You can't do that, you know, with a whole series of private radio stations playing commercial stuff. CBC is the way that we always heard each other and how we learn stuff. You know, I ran into Ron Sexsmith the other day and I said to him,

Ron, two things. You probably don't remember that one of your first gigs was opening for us. Wow. And then six months later, you're the biggest guy on the planet. We never forgot that. But I said, you know, around one time I was driving through a bush road in northern Ontario and one of your songs came on the radio. Former glory. And I was so moved, I actually pulled over at the side of the road to listen to it. That's what a nation's voice and broadcaster does.

I never would have heard that song on private radio. No, no, no, because it's not a top 40 song, right? You're 100% right. And you referenced Brave New Waves earlier. And I have a lot of people like you on the show. And where were you discovering music? And it always, if they're from the GTA, it always came down to two sources.

It was Brave New Waves and CFNY. This is where they discovered music you know they weren't gonna hear that on 680 CFTR here in Toronto because it wasn't top 40 yeah and Chum FM wasn't gonna play us so that was those are the places and then you know in the 90s Peter Zowski really transformed everything I mean literally the Grievous Angels were a street busking band and and Zowski had us on and then we were playing big big shows across Canada that is an amazing power and we I think CBC has to do better at

Maintaining that role, but we let's not let it slip away Let's listen to some new Grievous Angels and talk about this Let's listen to some new Grievous Angels and talk about this. Let's tune in. I got two jobs, I got three roommates, I'm a woman of forty-three. I got two jobs, I got three roommates, I'm a woman of forty-three. I got two jobs, I got three roommates I'm a woman of 43 Got a dream that keeps me going Of a place I've never seen

So I save what I can in this gig economy So I save what I can in this gig economy So I save what I can in this gig economy I know that where I'm going Barcelona I'll be free. No pass the red, no pass the red. Comrade, give me your hand. Barcelona, I'll be free. Greasy Brendan is the poor man, and his hands, they won't stay still. Greasy Brendan is the poor man, and his hands hands they won't stay still. Greasy Brendan is the foreman and his hands they won't stay still. Greasy Brendan is the foreman and his hands they won't stay still. I made myself a promise that man I'm gonna kill.

No pass around, no pass around. Barcelona, Barcelona, comrade give me your hand. Barcelona, I'll be free. Sounds great in the headphones, man, but you're saying something here. This is Barcelona, this is a parenthetical jam because you've got I'll be free in parentheses there there but tell me about this song. Well this song really is about the the the world of gig the gig economy the contract work the fact that people can't afford to live while the 1% are burning our planet and it's funny that it's very political songs called politically charged is what I

was told in one of the reviews. I had that woman character in my head first. I had the image of the 43 year old working at a crap job with a crappy boss and thinking that she's going to have a right to freedom. And Barcelona is a symbol. Barcelona, we go back to the Spanish Civil War and you know the Canadians who fought in Barcelona and when the Canadians were leaving Barcelona when the fascists were coming and the people came out in the streets and sang

to them and threw roses to the the survivors of the Mackenzie Papenoborghade. So it's a metaphor of a place where where freedom should reign and it's I think it's a modern of a place where freedom should reign. And I think it's a modern protest song. We need songs that articulate what's happening to us. So it's very much written in the tradition of those songs. And yeah, and I think very much relevant today.

Absolutely. I mean, there was a recent album from Lois Delo. I love Lois Delo, if that's not apparent yet. But I think Ron Hawkins and the gang are fantastic, but Agitpop they called it, and full of protest music. And I was like, there should be more protest music than ever right now, you'd think. We always hear back, oh, like the Vietnam War happened, and then there was Nixon, and look what came out of all this and that. But it doesn't feel like we're being... maybe it's just not being discovered, maybe not being found, maybe it's out there and we're just not hearing it

possibly, but you essentially here, as I listen, you're giving a voice to the voiceless here and I'm a woman of 43. Got a dream that keeps me going of a place I've never seen. Wow, Janet Mercy, Alexander Bell and Nathan Mahaffey are drummer with an incredible voice. It's the one song I don't sing on. I just love it. That's why I played it. I love it.

It's, you know, again, giving voice. This is, this is, I, when I started to hear Janet and Alex singing together and I came in and wrote this song and the first thing they said was yeah we know Gracie Brandon we had to work with him he's the dirty foreman in the song and yeah they sing the song and it's their voice it's a woman's voice it's great it is great it is great and again last call for Cinderella is the name of the album Grievous Angels it's you you're going to have your album release show at the Horseshoe Tavern appropriately enough on Sunday.

That's June 9th because, you know, people listen to podcasts whenever. So this is June 9th, twenty, twenty four. In case you show up June 9th, twenty, twenty five and you're like, where the hell is Charlie? I was promised some Charlie Angus here. OK, so one p.m. and get your tickets. Do you want to direct people to a, is there a website or a place? Yeah, they can go to the Grievous Angels Facebook thing to get a get tickets in advance or at the door. We're doing it with Make Music Matter, which is

a great organization doing, using music to deal with trauma and and raising up voices and we've done some great work with them and John Bora another Toronto legend. He's been here he's been down here he's played live in the basement. He's played live well see it's a big blur in head here okay so everybody who played of Change of Heart you know I got an obsession with so it's gonna be a great show. Sounds amazing now I gotta ask you about Stomp and Tom Connors for a minute here. This is I'm dedicating this question to banjo dunk dunk Framlin good FOTM who

Is still touring with with his Doug Douglas Cameron and they're playing a lot of great stomp and Tom They're playing Hale-A-Berry Legion. I think I think you're get back for that, but I'm not sure if I'm back in town or not. Yeah, you know, he's still flying the flag for Stomp and Tom, and you know, Sheddard's really funeral home, we lost Stomp and Tom, but you did tour with Stomp and Tom, right? You were performing for residential school survivors. Well, we did residential school survivors dance. No, Tim, our bass player,

toured regularly with Stompin' Tom. But my story of Stompin' Tom is he got a start in Timmins at the Maple Leaf Tavern, which the Angels played at, and in 1966 he had a single on the radio in Timmins, CKGB Radio, that outsold the Beatles. It was Fire in the Mine. It was about the big fire in the McIntyre mine where my grandfather worked, and that song electrified me. So I've been a sweet we do tons of Stompin Tom songs in our show we've always been hugely influenced by Tom. Yeah, like Bud the Spud for example, all the great Stompin Tom songs. Okay, now is there any?

Can you shout out here because on our way out here I will play a song from Shakespeare My Butt from Lois the Lowe because I close every episode of Rosie and Grey from that Oh God, every episode of Rosie and Grey from that oh god every episode every episode love it so much but are there any current bands you want to shout out who are given a voice to the voiceless today um there's so many great I'm a big fan of July Talk I just I just loved them and they did a shout out to me and I was like wow that is like I felt I felt recognized yeah absolutely July Talk her father writes for the Toronto Sun And I was like wow that is like I felt I felt recognized Yeah, I have something July talk her father writes for the Toronto Sun. Oh really so I don't think they love the NDP They're over there at the

That's okay. That's but July talk likes this July talk likes you yeah, Adrian Sutherland so many great indigenous acts that are really You know Laying it down right now. And then I give a shout out to my son-in-law Alex Bird and the Jazz Mavericks who dropped their single Papaya today. Just because I worked with him on his first album, helped produce it, wrote a bunch of songs and but he's doing his thing. He didn't, he doesn't need the old father-in-law hanging around, but he's, they're just doing really exciting, fun stuff. And it's great to see these young musicians who are really on top of their game. Amazing

and earlier you talked about the term Americana and I find I always found it interesting that you know it's almost I don't know if anything ever is invented like everything just evolves in different ways but you could almost say the band which was a thoroughly Canadian, they had a leave on from Arkansas, but it was very otherwise it was a thoroughly Canadian act, the band almost invents in a sense Americana. It should be Canadian. And Canadian is different from Americana, but it's more fiddles. Well, yeah. And and we well, I just did a big interview with a guy from the UK who's got a radio show in Americana and I was explaining, he said, you've got such different cultural sounds. I said, yeah, accordions, the fiddles.

And it's not that sort of Appalachian fiddle, it's more maritime, it's more Québécois. And you hear it on the band, that whole incredible sound of really rootsy instruments and the way the voices come together. To me, there's part of what makes the Grievous Angels special is we really are a soundtrack of the great Northern Highways. And it's country music, but it's not American music. And then I know you're now just releasing Last Call for Cinderella, so you might like, let me enjoy this for a moment here, but what is next for Grievous Angels? Like, is there going to be another album?

You're going to keep going now that you have a little more, maybe a little more time in your hand that you're not in Ottawa all the time? I'm really trying hard not to write songs right now because we have a thing as soon as we get excited, start playing. I write a lot of new songs and we don't sing the songs from the record, so we're going to play the record for a little bit. But yeah, let's start thinking of the next project. It might be different. It might be an EP. We might go more grassrootsy. Who knows? We might get louder.

Yeah, you might get, yeah, punk. You know, we need louder. But you know what? I know that I'm playing Lois Lowe. I'm thinking the most recent Lois Lowe album had a lot of ska on it. Is there any ska on your future? I'll leave Ron and Steve to do ska, but Rosie and Grey, a great great Toronto anthem. Charlie, thanks for doing this man. Like I'm like the punk rock politician is coming over and you're leaving politics and you're done with politics? No, I'm leaving being a member of parliament. I'm not leaving politics. You'll see me. You'll see me down the road. I'll be stirring the pot in a big way.

I got lots of ideas. Okay, stay tuned. When this new book comes out, I've got to get you back here because I just want to dive deep into that scene in the 80s in Toronto and I want to read that and talk to you about that. So how does that sound? I will get the book to you as soon as it's out. I want an advance copy. Come on. Okay you gave me some advance copies I'll get you an advance copy. Amazing. And that brings us to the end of our 1503rd episode of Toronto Mike. You can follow me on, I'm all over the place, Twitter, everywhere. Go to torontomic.com and you'll find the links, but you can follow me at torontomic.

Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. Charlie's got his beer. Palma Pasta, they're feeding us on June 27th at Great Lakes Brewery. RecycleMyElectronics.ca. Charlie, I forgot to tell you that if you have... And I know you're an environmentalist and you're well aware of all this, but if you have that drawer of old, I don't know, electronics cables...

Where do I send it? Don't throw it in the garbage, Charlie, because then the chemicals end up in our landfill. No, absolutely not. Don't do that. Go to RecycleMyElectronics.ca, put put in your postal code and it'll be like there are accredited depots. You can drop them off where they will be properly recycled. So go to recycle my electronics dot ca and the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team amazing baseball amazing vibes. We were rained out last Sunday, but I'm going to be there this Sunday cross your fingers.

I'm not rained out again. Looking forward to this. It's Pride Day at Christy Pitts. Monaris of course they're behind Yes We Are Open. You've got your speaker Charlie and Ridley Funeral Home. There's a measuring tape for you Charlie Angus. I almost forgot to give it to you. Ridley Funeral Home wants you to have a measuring tape to make your life even better. That's for you, Charlie. See you all Sunday when I'm live from Christie Pitts with Mike Richards. See you then. Yes I do, I know it's true, yeah I know it's true, how much is?

I've been picking up trash and then putting down roads And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn because Everything is coming up Rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold

But the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rubbing gray Well I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Shakna Kur But I like it much better going down on you