Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Chris Johnston: Toronto Mike'd #131

Episode Date: July 30, 2015

Mike chats with Chris Johnston, Senior Hockey Writer for Sportsnet, about Phil Kessel, the Shanaplan, Simmons's hotdog claims, Hockey Night in Canada changes, Tim and Sid, becoming a Friend of Bob and whether Wilner should call John Gibbons Gibby.

Welcome to episode 131 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything, often with a distinctly Toronto flavour. I'm Mike from torontomic.com and joining me this week is Chris Johnston, Senior Hockey Writer for Sportsnet. It's a big title. It is a big title. Senior. I didn't invent it. They just brought it to me and I said, okay. I like it. I would just be handing out my business card everywhere.

Because like hockey and senior and Sportsnet, that's a big deal. Almost half my life being a hockey reporter. So I guess that's a sign of senior citizen-ness. Senior citizen-ness. But you don't have any gray hairs like I do. I noticed you're still holding on there. They're coming though. Are they? They're coming uh my sister had a baby about a week and a half ago and my dad in an ode to the playoff beard format we grew playoff beards essentially and

i had a lot of gray hairs on the beard i noticed yeah that's i noticed too like after a few days i got to shave this down the white the white beard makes you look kind of rugged. Ragged. Hey, before we talk about hockey and Sportsnet and all that cool stuff, is it hot enough for you? How are you dealing with this heat? I don't mind it. I'm with you, man. I remember what the winter is like and, you know, obviously get the good pleasure to spend a lot of time in arenas.

But, you know, being cold eight months a year, I don't, I don't mind a little bit heat. I even, I even played some golf in this, even though most people don't even want to leave their houses. So see, I'm hearing lots of complaints, but I don't mind it at all.

I actually kind of like it. Like I maybe I am, I should point out I'm pretty close to the lake, so it's probably not as hot here as it is a little North, but I don't find it too hot at all. Right. Well, I mean, it's humid.

That's the thing. Yeah, you're going to sweat. I was down at the Jays game last night, and the roof was open, and it was soupy. Like, it was very hot. Oh, you were there for Tulo Hitski. Is that what the sign? Tulo Mania. Running wild.

That's awesome. And I think it actually helped R.I. Dickey with the knuckleball. Maybe the humidity helped him have such a good outing. I noticed he was having trouble catching it yesterday. The Canadian, the catcher there, Russell Martin, was having a little difficulty with the knuckleball, so I knew it was moving. What was amazing

is, and I didn't see the end numbers, but at one point when he started an inning, he'd thrown 87 pitches and 67 of them were strikes, which for a knuckleball is not what you'd expect to see or what I would expect to see, but I guess he was feeling it last night but you know we do this with uh like going back to too low i'm gonna call him too low if that's okay yeah but we do this like guys come to town big names and they'll have a good start and then now they're they own the city like this guy owns

the city today for uh some big hits last night i hope so i mean we actually had the same sort of conversation with the buddies of mine that i went with that will always remember that first game, you know, having been there. Yeah. There was excitement ahead of time, I think, at least for those of us in the park. Sure. To have him go three for five and have three RBIs

and a home run was quite dramatic. Well, he struck out the first at-bat, so I tweeted that he was like, what a bust, you know? And then the second at-bat, I'm like, he just redeemed himself. Like, he killed that. The second at-bat, he hit the homer, and he was like 0 just redeemed himself like he killed that the second at bat he hit the homer and he was like oh for 20 something or something at that point right the homer but that's exciting but do you remember jp aaron sibia's first game i do i do i remember writing an entry after that like he was like jesus like oh my goodness

jp is here and it didn't take long for us to just despise the guy well at least in this case uh you know i think tulowitz has a bit more of a track record, certainly. But I'm not sure how that's going to work out. I kind of like that it's bold. I thought it was a bit of a bold move. It's fun. Sometimes sports, we all, and I'm guilty of this in my job, but we all maybe

take it too seriously. It's sometimes fun to have a fan experience, just to go there a night like that and see the guy do something you don't really expect and I like that people maybe get a little overly emotional about it. You know, it's part of the enjoyment

of the whole thing. But you were there yesterday as a fan, right? You weren't working. Oh yeah. I go, I mean, I live about a kilometer

from the old Sky Dome slash Rogers Center to keep my bosses happy. I was going to say, you got to be careful of that when your checks are signed by the ghost

of Ted Rogers. Right. Well, you know. Do you have to bow down to the statue on your way in? You got to do careful of that when your checks are signed by the ghost of Ted Rogers. Right. Well, you know. Do you have to bow down to the statue on your way in? You got to do a little salute? I walk in from the other side, so I don't see it too often. I know the statue isn't popular among the fan base, but I go to. It's popular amongst the pigeons, though.

Why not? Or seagulls, yeah. You know, I probably go to 10 games a year at least, maybe more. And right back to when I was a kid, I mean, growing up here in the early 90s late 80s uh the jays i was a bigger jays i was a bigger hockey fan on as a whole you know hence my career but i was a bigger jays fan certainly than i was ever a leach fan you have a cool voice i just noticed you have that ipad i smoke a pack of cigarettes kind of thing going on but you don't do you smoke no so that's that's cool because you don't have to smoke today in my life and i got you got it right i wish whiskey and cigarettes kind of thing some people say sometimes i wish i had one like i wish

i sounded like that it's just kind of cool it's one of these things we don't control yeah we'll get into that so just to wrap up the heat wave thing so if you had a choice between uh what we have now i don't know the humidex is close to 40 or let's just say minus 20. It's a no-brainer, right? Am I right? Is it a no-brainer? Well, maybe it's not. Maybe I shouldn't speak for you. No, if you're talking, if you only can have one or the other,

I would take minus 20. But that being said, here at the end of July in your basement, I like the fact that I'm going to go outside afterwards and it's warm out. So why would you pick the minus 20? Just to play hockey outside or what just if you had to choose? I feel more comfortable as a whole in minus 20. I okay you know I used to do a lot of running and I loved minus 20 versus plus 20 which you know some people thought was crazy. I mean I

just I don't mind the cold weather but you know again now that it's here I'm not going to complain about it. Good stuff cool. Hey you grew up in Coburg? Coburg, Ontario, man. Here's a coincidence for you. So you're episode 131. Episode 132 is going to be Josie Dye. And so I was just reading up on her. She starts on the radio in Coburg. Wow. I had no idea about that. Yeah. I think it's on Wikipedia or something, but some good source. So tell me what it was like growing up in Coburg. It was awesome, man.

First, tell everybody where the hell it is, because I have a feeling most people don't know where Colburn is. Well, people get confused. They often think of Colburn, where there's a big red apple if you drive by on the highway, which I guess is a landmark for some. But it's about an hour east of Toronto. Well, they got the pies there. Yes. But if we talk with the apple, everyone's going to miss the whole fact that that isn't Colburn.

That's not where you grew up. That isn't Colburn. We played those guys miss the whole fact that that isn't Coburg. That's not where you grew up. That isn't Coburg. We played those guys in hockey, but that was about it as kids. But Coburg's about an hour east of Toronto, basically in the middle between Kingston and Toronto, if you're looking at it roughly on a map. And man, it was a great place to grow up. I mean, I couldn't, I guess it's hard to imagine any other childhood other than the one you had, but I couldn't imagine it being better, really.

And probably the biggest strike against it being better really. And, and, you know, probably the biggest strike against it is even to this day, there's, there's really not a lot of reason for, for kids to stay there. You know, I'm very good friends with a number of the people I grew up in. Most of us now live elsewhere, some in Toronto, some in other parts of the world. Is your biggest, is your nearest big city Oshawa? Like, is that the one or? Yeah. I mean, I think I had to google map this by the way to make

sure I knew where the hell it was it is the biggest but I always had eyes for Toronto I mean I ever since I was very young you know I felt almost like a magnetism towards uh you know coming to live in Toronto and you know I came to university here and I mean part of it I think is every single time I came here as a kid we were doing something cool like we didn't drive to Toronto to go to the dentist you know right right we were coming drive to Toronto to go to the dentist. Right. Right. We were coming here to go to a baseball game or a hockey game or even the Eaton center or something that,

you know, we didn't have, you know, where I grew up, but yeah. You know, it's the kind of place to grow up and grow old. Cobra,

I think in a lot of ways. And there are a few exceptions. I have one good friend that still lives there and she's doing very well in her thirties, but just not, there's not a lot to do in those middle years of your life but you have a radio station i learned we i think a couple might be two now wow there used to be a classical station there that that kind of had a broad reach for those that are into classical so some people know coburg because of that but

you know that's actually i think i don't know when it went classical but i think that's the station josie was on but i don't think it was classical when she was there i don't think that's the station Josie was on, but I don't think it was classical when she was there. I don't know how long. That's possible. I mean, I didn't even, I don't even recall listening to Coburg radio. I mean, the thing when you grow up in a small place,

I think you're always looking for the bigger thing. And, you know, we still got the Toronto station. So, you know, I listened to the fan five 90 as a kid and, and,

you know, edge one Oh two. And I remember, you know, we still were at a heavy. We listened. So even though I'm in Toronto, you're in Colbert, we're listening to the same stuff.

Right. It isn't that far. I mean, I go there for dinner now and drive back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially then, though, I mean, the world, I think, has gotten a lot smaller in some ways with the internet and stuff. When I was a kid, Toronto felt a million miles away.

I mean, part of that, I'm sure, is my perspective as a young guy who can't just get in a car and drive at that point. But, you know, working in the NHL, all the stuff that I've come to do at that time felt, it felt a million light years in the,

you know, from where I was. That's like when I grew up, uh, I can't remember how old I was, but at some point they opened Canada's Wonderland. And I remember at the time, like my first time going there was like early eights or something and it honestly felt far away like

there was just nothing and then there was there was far away and then you become an adult and you oh it's right there like it's practically toronto right although anyone who's brave the traffic to go up there it is a million miles away it's true right through the middle of the city but it's funny how that their perspective changes you're right, as an adult, you realize when you look back on these things that it's all possible and it isn't even that big a thing. But sometimes when you're a kid growing up in Coburg,

I mean, man, just dreaming of being around the sports teams, even the ability to go to a game like last night where I didn't put any thought into it. I just went and bought a ticket and went. As a kid, I would love that. So that's partly why I still do it, I think. Tell me, did you always want to write about sports? Was this like a childhood dream?

Man, since I was five years old, I wanted to be a hockey writer. And I don't know why. I mean, I can understand what about it appeals to me now and what appealed to me then, but I don't know why. You probably wanted the free pass. Like you just wanted access to... Right right and i've always really liked logistics so i kind of wanted to know how everything worked um and was was especially we didn't really get the behind the scenes programming i think you know fans can get now i mean fans can even watch a press

conference now and know who's asking the questions to me i would have always wanted to know that you know i read all the papers i knew the personalities I wanted to know kind of the the story around the story so you know in addition to loving hockey and for some reason again at five years old why wouldn't you just think I want to be a player um you know like you were sensible five you you aimed somewhere you could you could achieve that was smart I guess but you know when you say that to your mom like I remember my mom saying well you know there's not a lot of those jobs. And I guess you'll have to go to Ryerson University because that seems to be where journalists seem to go. And so that kind of became my, you know, what was in my mind that I had to go to

Ryerson. And to the point where, you know, by the time I went through high school and, you know, I got pretty good marks, but, you know, there's not a lot of people that get into that journalism program. I wasn't going to, if I didn't get into ryerson i wasn't gonna go i was gonna figure something else out um like i wasn't gonna go to another university to do an undergrad in english just to do it oh like idiots like me you're right you're smart well i don't know if i'm smart i mean that could have been a stupid move could have been you know like it's a pretty self-limiting sort of view of the world. But, you know, I think for me, at least, you know, now I'm getting to the point in my career where people are, you know, some kids are asking me to meet them for coffee and share advice. I don't really have much.

I don't know how. But guys are now inviting you into their basement to do podcasts. Well, you know, why not? I mean, anyone who's interested in hearing what you have to say, I mean, who's going to say no to that, I guess. I'll give you the list. I've had a few no's. Really? Yeah, just not too many, but a few.

You have an impressive list, you know, after your invite. I went and scanned your... Oh, you saw Cox was here and you realized, well, if Cox is going to this guy's basement, I can do this. Damien's episode, actually, I tried to download and when it was on my phone, it was only three seconds. I just talked to the Ian Service who's hosting this. I actually chatted with him about that.

Funny you mentioned that. Just last night, I said some of the older episodes, when I stream them on my site, I noticed it'll play for like one second. But the time says it'll be an hour and 34 minutes or whatever. But it only plays for one second. But if I right-click the link and save as, I notice it still downloads the MP3.

So the MP3 is there. I'm not sure why it's only streaming like a second or three seconds or whatever. Right. So I didn't get to hear any Damien's wisdom from this basement, but I spent a lot of time around him in my life. So I can guess what it would have been. Yeah. We'll try to fix that for you because you can check out Cox. But yeah, a lot of Rogers. Actually, let's go in chronological order let's start with the canadian press so is this your first you know big time gig out of university oh yeah i mean for me it started two weeks into university believe it or not so i i moved to downtown toronto which you know kind of

on my previous discussion felt like a million light years away from where i was and uh you know i move on to this floor at residence at Ryerson university in downtown Toronto. And there's a guy on my floor, Chris Roberts. He's, he's he's the RA basically he's in charge of the floor. And he was a second year journalism student. And of all things, he said, Hey, do you want to go to a blue Jays game tonight? Literally a week in university. And I said, yeah, sure. And he brings along a guy named Mike Kareen, who at the time was working for the Toronto sun. He's actually back after taking a few other jobs with the sun. And he brings along a guy named mike kareen who at the time was working for the toronto sun he's actually back after taking a few other jobs with the sun and he was only a year or two older than me and and i was fascinated because it never even occurred to me i mean it shows how

naive i was that i could work while i was at university i sort of thought i'd go and get a degree and then get a job uh and you know over the course of this baseball game i i think i peppered mike with a million questions he's kind of a quieter guy so he was probably like who is this guy this gnat basically asking everything and but strangely enough a week later I got a phone from Coleman Colberg strangely on a weekend and said the Canadian press is looking for this a young guy to be their junior hockey guy which you know,

and I don't know much about it, but you should phone this guy, Neil Davidson. So I just phoned Neil Davidson and he was the sports editor at the Canadian Press. I was 18 still at the time. And we set up an interview and I went in and hired him. And because Neil, you know, I've come to know him quite well. I worked there quite a long time. He said his only fear with hiring me is he was worried he was going to break some child labor laws because I was a quite young looking 18 year old. Well, you're still a young looking guy. I was impressed by senior in the title because you're still a young looking guy. Young, but I'm 33. So, I mean, that was my first gig at 18 and I've been doing it ever since. Cool. So, the Canadian Press. So, this is, first of all, it's amazing because you get your foot

in the door and then you can learn so much and kind of grow from there, you know, and Rogers probably doesn't, you know, it doesn't happen if you don't have some, some experience there. So what were you doing for Canadian Press? Was it, you were covering hockey? Like, but like I know, and I'll get into this in a bit, but I knew of you sort of before a lot of people knew of you because you were sort of covering international tournaments and you were going overseas and covering like world championships and right olympic teams and things like this like so so what were you doing for canadian press well where it started as i mentioned so i did a junior hockey job initially the first year and what that involved is literally every wednesday friday and saturday night i went to the office and this is at a time when the internet isn't what it is now and and guys from each rink

were a junior hockey game ohhl whl were being played would phone in at the end of each period and dictate the summary of you know goal to portland wow uh and i took the the summaries and basically we turn that into the summaries that go on the agate pages and then i wrote three or four paragraph stories off of each game and you know obviously that's an entry-level position it required me literally i worked every friday and saturday night at university i don't i didn't have a typical experience but from there you know, obviously that's an entry level position. It required me literally, I worked every Friday and Saturday night at university. I don't, I didn't have a typical experience, but from there, you know, I parlayed that and I worked a little bit at the,

in the early stages of what was called the online desk, which was basically moving news to what we all now sort of absurd that it would ever have to be a separate process. I started getting to do some hockey and then, you know, probably the weirdest good thing I did was, was a total risk. And, you know, as I mentioned, I worked through university on the night shift. And when I just finished school and by the end of school, I was working full time. I was doing five nights a week. I quit. Oh yeah.

And you know, I went into the Neil Davidson's office and I just said, you know, I, I kind of want to go overseas. I don't, it was the year of the 0405 NHL lockout. I had this vague notion of going and talking to players that, you know, were from North America and freelancing stories. I didn't really know. And when I quit, he said, you know, my other big interest was golf and it still is. And he said, but we were going to send you to the masters this year. You know,

you shouldn't, but I was just like, I don't know, Neil. I feel like I got to go. So the first place I went is I flew to Russia and did some stories there. My best friend at the time, a Canadian guy, was living in London, England. I went on to London, you know, lived on his couch for a little while. And, you know, I ended up getting a job there. Lived on it long enough where, you know, i had to kind of decide what i was doing and you know going to the pub every night at some point runs out of you know a practical way to use your time so only for some people right well thankfully for me i

found the end and uh you know i worked at the so i got applied to a job the associated press over there and i ended up working there and i think strangely you'd have to i'd have to ask neil i think that i earned kind of his respect that i went over there and i got a decent job and you know he sent me to the british open as a freelancer for the k press in 2005 at st andrews which was still to date one of my career highlights cool tiger woods won jack nicholas final tournament as a pro and if you allow me the aside, I'll tell you. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, go.

So Jack Nicklaus, he's going to miss the cut, but on the 18th hole, he comes up. And St. Andrews is just such a cool scene. People from the town can watch him play. It's not just those with the pass to the ground. I mean, the whole world feels like it's focused on that. And he makes like a 15-foot putt for birdie on his final hole. And he comes in

so it's pretty i mean if you love golf it was pretty moving moment and comes in the press room afterwards he delivered one of the best lines i've ever heard and he says i knew the hold move wherever i hit it and it just i was just what a legend so at the end of this press conference though all the reporters get up and walk to the front and get their passes signed by jack nicholas which is a total breach of protocol. Oh, yeah? Well, we certainly, I mean, it goes without saying, we wouldn't ask for autographs or favors.

You can't be fans. Well, it's impartial. Exactly. And I was so young and so intent on being, like, I'm a professional journalist that I didn't do it. And I must say, 10 years later, it's a mild regret because I think it'd be cool to have this pass. Listen to me. If Mike Willner can call John Gibbons Gibby, you can get Jack Nicklaus to sign your pass.

Well, I don't think Mike Wilner should call John Gibbons Gibby. I agree with you. Do you listen to that one yet? No. Find some time. You'll like that one. I have the downloads for you. I agree with you 100%. Mike Wilner should not be calling John Gibbons Gibby. I agree with you 100%. Mike Wilner should not be calling John Gibbons Gibby. I agree. I mean, I'm probably guilty of it at some point on the radio too, so I don't want to be too hard on Mike, but in general, I think you have to... I still see it

as a profession. I know that we get kicked around a lot, and rightfully so. Look, I'm not going to defend the actions of all my colleagues, but I do think that there is a professionalism there that isn't always either respected or maybe acknowledged. I mean, we wear suits to the games. I mean, it still feels to me and probably because I've always wanted to do this, there's still a little bit of nobility in it.

We don't get that. Twitter really has changed things. And again, I'm not going to defend all my colleagues. I'm not saying anyone who takes a run at a journalist is wrong because frankly, they're right in a lot of cases, but I still kind of, I, I'm not going to defend all my colleagues. I'm not saying anyone who takes a run at a journalist is wrong because, frankly, they're right in a lot of cases. But, you know, I still kind of, I guess I'm old school and I see it in a different way. So how did you come to work for Rogers? Like, how did that come to be? Right. So basically, when I decided to move home from England, I phoned CP again.

I just said, hey, I'm moving home. And Neil said, OK, we're going to make you the number two hockey writer. home and Neil said okay we're going to make you the number two hockey writer uh so I came back and worked at the Canadian Press starting in uh I guess that would be the fall of 2005 just when hockey was returning I remember the excitement around the sport Crosby had been drafted that's today's anniversary I know I believe it's amazing yeah yeah I mean 10 years goes goes quick but uh you know and I got the good fortune then to work under Pierre Lebrun, who was CP's lead hockey writer at the time. Eventually, when Pierre moved on and first went to ESPN for his writing needs, he's done a little bit of everything.

He's still one of my good friends, but he's worked everywhere. He kind of helped bring me along, but I became the number one hockey writer at CP. I had to fast-forward it a little bit. As you mentioned, I got to cover the world hockey championships seven times, which was just awesome experience. And really, you know, a tournament that doesn't get a lot of,

it doesn't have a lot of profile in North America. And I understand why it's during the NHL playoffs, but that's the best connections I have in the sport, be it players, GMs, coaches, even it's almost all exclusively people I met at that tournament. Cause you're one of the only, if not the only Canadian guy there,

you're there for three weeks to a month, you cover them every day. And for some reason, the walls are different there. I mean, uh, here, if you imagine two sides of a wall, it's journalist and reporter. Uh, I think all of a sudden the wall gets moved around when you're there and it's two Canadians versus everybody else. So to speak, you have more in common than you have different when, when you're in that environment and, you know,

really helped my career. So, you know, when it came time to cover the next lockout in 2012, 13, I was the main guy doing that for CP. One of the only ones, again,

it stood on, literally stood when you talk about hot and cold, yeah, stood on street corners, you know, on sixth Avenue, New York, outside of the league offices in July and August August when it first began sweating. And then, you know, right through the

winter time before it was finally solved in January. And it was some point during that lockout where I started speaking to Sportsnet and, you know, really, you know, we made an agreement. We talked about that. I had a lot of interviews, a lot of different people because the job I've been hired to do is, is to do some television, to do radio, to write for the website, to write a little bit for the magazine, kind of be a jack-of-all-trades there a little bit. And so it involved a lot of different levels of management.

And anyway, finally, when they said we agreed on what I'd be paid and everything, they wanted me to start right away. And I said, it's unfair to leave the Canadian press in the middle of this lockout because they've sent me there and there's a lot of sort of specifics not with covering a game right right it would be hard to throw someone else into that environment so we struck an agreement and and basically i started right after the lockout ended uh so a couple of things there firstly uh i enjoy the world championship like i watch it when i can and I follow it. And for example,

this last, uh, season, uh, Crosby went over and it was like that gold medal game. Was it Canada, Russia? Like I,

I anticipated it. I cared about it. Like I passionately wanted it. Yes. And I wanted it too. It was like, it's not like I didn't have that, you know,

the Davos cup or something. Sometimes you feel like with that one, sometimes like when we lose, I'm okay. It's just that or whatever, but this one I care about, like these are NHLers and it means something to me, these world championships. Well, I'm totally in the bag for it too. I mean,

you don't go to seven of them and not see all the redeeming qualities. I mean, in addition to they're often held in really cool cities and you get to, for me, I got to know all these foreign reporters that do the same job and, and in Finland and Sweden and Russia. I mean, what a network of people still that I know and I'm in contact with, but it's just fun, you know, and, and the fans in Europe, I mean, it's huge there. You still ask NHL players of a certain age.

Recently actually I was in Vegas for the NHL awards and I bumped into Daniel Alfredson and, and, you know And I know Daniel over his career, and we went and had a beer together. And we were just kind of one of those, he's telling stories all over the place. But he did mention that he grew up wanting to win a world championship and to win an Olympics. And he's 40, so it's the younger generation coming in the league now.

I think there's far more awareness of the Stanley Cup. But we're not that far removed from when that was one of the biggest tournaments in the world. That was always one of the knocks against, like let's take Matt Sundin, for example. Great player, gentleman, classy guy, great captain, we think, sort of, but it was always that question, like, you know, he won the gold in the Olympics with Sweden,

and what would mean more to a guy like that, that moment there, or actually hoisting the cup? Because with the North American players, there's no doubt. The cup is everything. But that's always one of the, I don't want to sound like Don Cherry here, so maybe I'll bail before I get ahead of myself.

But that's always been the question. I think it's a bit unfair in Mats' case. I got to cover the last five or six years of his career. And he definitely had that sort of withdrawn personality in some ways. I think people, they, they were asking those questions. I mean, it was probably topic of debate, uh, five out of seven days a week on the fan back in the day. And, and with Storm and Norman, you know, and part of it was fueled by Matz. Cause he was the one when they won in turn in 2006, who organized the charter plane. It's funny. Alfredson was telling me this story recently when we were together and he said when they landed in stockholm he went and bought him

and a couple of the other veteran guys bought the whole everyone's suits so they all got fancy suits they had this great party in the square uh in stockholm just crazy and alfredson said the party after that was one of the craziest things he's ever seen in his life that matts was the main ringleader behind that he was was a veteran on that team. I don't think there's any harm in wanting two things. I mean, look, we all have to multitask, I think, in our jobs now. There's something special about international competition. I went to the Olympics in Vancouver and Sochi,

which would be certainly on my top five things I've ever done professionally. Just, I mean, there's nothing like the Olympics. I mean, that's why I think the NHL would be insane to even consider, seriously consider not sending the players because it has a profound effect on these guys much, much more than, than could be measured by dollars and cents. And I understand the business discussions around it, but it's special.

And the Worlds is a smaller version of that. And I get that people here, and I'm not even asking people here to get into it because it's not really held here other than the one in Halifax and Quebec City in 08. But it's a great tournament. And the guys that go have a lot of fun. I spoke with Crosby, actually.

I sent him an email after they won in Prague. And he wrote back. He said, you would have loved it here. You know, he had such a good time. Yeah. And I do actually think now we're going to see a bit of a Canadian movement because there's so many stars in that team that loved it. You know, let's face it, it's a follow me sport at times. And I bet we'll see more big names go next year. I bet we'll see more big names go next year. Yeah, and as a fan, I'm okay, I guess, with a Matt Sundin wanting the gold in the Olympics because we shut down the NHL and send the best guys over. You don't want your guy to sort of really want that world championship

because that means he's not in the NHL playoffs. It's a consolation prize. Yeah, exactly. There's that triple gold club. I think that was for Sidney when he won the world gold. I mean, he got in that. There's only 25, 26 members. I mean, for him, obviously he didn't want the Penguins to miss the playoffs,

but it was something else to play for his own place in history. Hey, so you mentioned all the things you're doing with Rogers, and they have a lot. I mean, Rogers is massive. They've got so many different properties. You mentioned web. There's a magazine. There's radio. There's TV, it's all over the place. So I'm just curious,

like a guy who is sort of writer only, like how exactly does that writing ability tie into suddenly being on the radio, for example, when you do like a 590 appearance, like how does that relate? Like is there some adjustments you have to make or some? Well, there's a learning curve. I mean, especially with TV. I mean, I think radio think radio i mean we're doing radio right now i mean it's very conversational uh and obviously in covering these games and these athletes and the sport i mean you have thoughts and and so really what i love about radio more than you know i'm a writer at heart but you can really i think get into thoughts and get into some depth and discuss, you know, the vagaries around a situation.

It's not so black and white, you know, whereas TV, you get 23 seconds and you got to this, this, this, this, and that's it. And there's really more of an opportunity, I think, to upset people that you cover because there's not a lot of time to explain what you mean. And, you know, that's not that I've upset a whole host of people. Give that i know give me the list who have you upset come on randy carlisle okay good well join the club toaster upset him right not in a not in a personal way but you know

i i covered the the season i my job's been different each of the three seasons i've been at rogers but the second year i went to every leafs game and then covered it every day and you know i think when you're around a guy and that, and that team, you know, was one of the number in the last few years that fell apart. So, you know, they're not all going to like you. And if I found Randy a few times, I know I got under his skin. That means you're doing something right.

Right. I mean, it's not, again, look at him. He'll, if I texted him right now, he'd be right back. It's not, it's not one of those ones that We didn't ever have a feud that's going to last. But, you know, TV, it's just, for a writer, TV is the greatest thing because it's not what's natural. We're not used to worrying about, I shouldn't speak so broadly, but a lot of us that make the jump from writing to TV aren't used to having to wear perfectly and, and make sure your hair is cut at a certain length and all that. But what's amazing about it is the reach you have to people is, is significant. And you notice it.

I mean, all of a sudden you get more return phone calls and, and the players start to recognize you, you know, let's face it. I mean, a lot of these Leafs now, I mean,

I'm, I'm getting old when I'm in that dressing room. There's not a lot of those guys are 20, 21, 22, but they're probably not reading a lot of the articles. They might hear about them from time to time. That's a very young team from family and friends, but they see TV and they were, they respond to it. And, and, you know, I do think it makes a difference and it helps us, you know, part of my role is, is to try to break news. I think it certainly helps make some of the connections and, and, you know, that you need

to do that. So speaking of breaking news, I think I was talking to Friedman about this and some others, but is there a pressure on you to break things now in this Twitter age? So how's that going? There's not a stated pressure, at least from my bosses, but there's an internal pressure. I mean, look, the way I liken it sometimes to people is I'm right now kind of in the AHL of sports media, in a sense, if you want to put it that way.

And, you know, I want to be on Hockey Night in Canada. I want to be doing the things all of the biggest names are doing. And part of that in raising your profile is breaking news and, you know, showing the value of your connections that you've made and your experience. And so I feel it. the value of your connections that you've made and your experience. And so I feel it. No one has ever said to me expressly, you have to, you have to beat TSN or you have to beat this guy or you have to break leaf stories.

It's not, you know, I feel like so much of this industry, because especially with a company like Rogers, it's expansive, right? It's big. There's not one plan, so to speak. And I feel like there's a lot of room to carve out your own space in that. And, you know, one of the things that I think I have some proficiency is breaking that noose.

So I put the pressure on myself to do it. And you know which hot dog stand was Kessel's favorite? Oh, don't go there? Well, you can. I just did. Right. But, I mean, wow. It's okay

it was just I just I didn't sorry you're making a joke but then I was thinking I just didn't like I didn't like that and you know

I actually knew where Kessel lived and it wasn't where it said in that article so it just it just seemed I wouldn't do that

well the guys at Pension Plan Puppets did that same pointed out this is where he lives yeah I mean so I mean this is how long it would take him to walk Puppets did that same point. They did the forensics. This is where he lives. Yeah, I mean, so, I mean, this is how long it would take him to walk there. And they did that whole thing.

I just, that's, Simmons amuses me. I'll just say that. Right. I actually tweeted on him the other day how old he sounds because he was at the closing ceremonies for the Pan Am. I saw that tweet. And it's just, I'm watching, I'm just, I mean, first of all, Kanye's on,

and I'm actually enjoying the Kanye performance. I'm sorry that disappoints people, but I enjoyed it. Okay, yeah. I got no issue with you. And it's just, I'm watching, I'm just, I mean, first of all, I'm in, Kanye's on, and I'm actually enjoying the Kanye performance. I'm sorry that disappoints people, but I enjoyed it. Okay, yeah. I got no issue with that. It's art, whatever. I enjoy it. But Simmons is talking about, I guess some athletes were leaving, and he was somewhere else when the Guess Who was performing, and no one left during the Guess Who.

It just, Simmons sounded really out of touch and old. That's all. Just really old. Right. Well, the thing where I get conflicted too is, you know, Steve has been one of the older guys, especially when I was young and maybe needed,

it was very encouraging and, and has, you know, I, on a personal level, I don't have any issue with Steve. It's just sometimes some of those, those things professionally,

and it's not that I have an issue, but I can, I can see where the people that attack them are coming from a little bit. Well, the hot dog thing, it just, it seems like you're, you're just a low blow, a silly low blowing a guy when he's leaving town. I just don't know how necessary the hot dog thing was. Right. Well, look, I mean, we're talking about it.

And I think he seems to, on some level, have embraced the foil. I guess so. A little bit. You know, I don't know. But that was not one. That wouldn't be, even if that was 100% true, which I don't think it is, I wouldn't know. But that was not one. That wouldn't be, even if that was 100% true, which I don't think it is, I wouldn't have written that. On that note, and I'm going to bounce around a little bit here,

but how well will Kessel do in Pittsburgh? I think he'll do well. I mean, the one thing in Toronto I must say that I don't like is there's a constant sort of, it's like you're in a room and everything's reverberating around. There's so much reference from the media about the media and the importance of that. And it becomes such a circular conversation. You know, I must say, I'm one of the guys, I had a very good relationship with Phil. I had a lot of time for Phil.

We had a lot of long conversations in which, you know, I saw there was a lot more there. I mean, he certainly wasn't comfortable it's hard for me to even imagine him having a long conversation there's a lot there with that guy and he never showed if there was 5 TV cameras and 10 reporters and lots of lights and this and that

but when you did get an opportunity to pick his brain you can see why he's so popular with his teammates the guy is beloved I do think that his work habits brain you can see why he's so popular with his teammates i mean the guy is beloved uh i you know i do think that his his work habits can be a little bit questioned i think that's fair given the profession he's chosen but at the same time he's still one of the fastest skaters in the league and up until last season he was producing at a level both goals and points you would expect so you know i think a lot of the criticism or discussion around him was a little unfounded

he'll benefit from going to pittsburgh being third banana right i think that's key for this guy to the big two and i think he'll just do what he did here but it will be viewed completely differently yeah i mean i'm i i think he just his mental makeup and stuff he he's not meant to be the guy but i feel like he's like somebody said he's like the he's like sharp except we didn't we don't have our taves and our cane like you know what I mean like I feel like he'll be fine in Pittsburgh he'll excel there and it's not his fault that there was never a guy above him I mean yeah I mean it's never his fault he spent six seasons here and the team had a lot of you know I realized that the number one center and don't grow on trees but he never got one and that's to me on management and

and the people that ran the team far more than him and he actually produced given the fact he didn't have a centerman right that he played on some really awful teams right he did exactly what you would expect it was if not the most consistent player one of the most consistent players in the entire league you know top 10 and scoring three straight seasons until last year when he did have a dip. And I do think a lot of that was everything getting to him finally. You know, I really think he's going to be successful in Pittsburgh. And, you know, sometimes with athletes, we always want more. Yeah. But, you know, probably human beings too in general.

But I think you got to look at what someone is and what he was and what he is as a special hockey player. And I think his time in Toronto, I think people miss the boat on him. Not the young fans. Look, there's always this conversation we're part of, guys at our age. And then, you know, my brother's got a 10-year-old kid

and like all those kids love Kessel. Yeah, my 13-year-old loves Kessel. There'd be like an 81 on every team if you go out to Mississauga and my brother lives and watches a minor hockey game. He's exciting. Like kids got it.

It's almost like the adults maybe didn't see. You know what? Here's what's working against him of adults. His, and I don't know this for sure. I don't watch what he eats, and I don't see him in the workout room. But I get the feeling he's got that, you know, that body type that just doesn't chisel. You know what I mean?

There's some guys who respond to, you know, working out all the time, and their bodies just harden and chisel. Like, and Kessel's got that look, like he just looks a little soft, you know what I mean? He doesn't look like a physical specimen. But I mean, to do what he does on a nightly basis, he must be in great shape, right? He just doesn't look it, though.

He doesn't have that face that looks like, hey, I'm an elite athlete in great shape. I feel like it's almost like a misunderstood genius. I mean, to do what he does, to skate how he does, he shoots mid-stride better than anyone, which is why he surprises goalies so often. You know, it's almost like we don't understand who he is. I mean, maybe because he is so far outside

of kind of the boundaries of what's expected and what's normal. And again, I feel like the failing on that sometimes lies with the people that are lobbing those criticisms his way. Not everybody's the same and not every team has, not everyone is sort of seen as that quote unquote leader type. I mean,

it doesn't work that way. And, you know, I don't think Phil was a disruptive force. I understand why the Leafs at this point in their rebuild would move on from him, but you know, I won't be the least bit surprised to see him succeed with the Pens.

Should we be concerned that Bozak is now living under a bridge? Who will take care of Bozak with Kessel in Pittsburgh? Well, at 28 or 29 years old, I hope he'll be okay to move on. Oh, that's a good point. I just laughed because, of course, the 24-7 documentary. It just seemed like he's bunking in this little room playing video games with Phil. It just seemed like an interesting thing for

a millionaire to be doing. There's a lot of that on every team. That's the funny thing I found about Toronto. Obviously, I'm lucky enough to go around and get to cover these other teams and travel and get to know. I feel like in Toronto that a lot of people don't recognize what's happening

elsewhere is really what's happening here. And, you know, there's, there's sort of, there's guys that maybe have a strained relationship with the media everywhere. And there's, you know, guys that live together and kind of have strange relationships everywhere, but it's just, everything is so magnified here. And that's, some players like that. I mean, I think the, the, the low end guys love that because they get more of a profile than they probably weren't. And they believe it, or their agents believe it helps them get jobs elsewhere. I mean, I think the low-end guys love that because they get more of a profile than they probably want,

and they believe it, or their agents believe it, helps them get jobs elsewhere. I mean, that's part of the sales pitch, frankly, the Leafs gave to these guys. They signed on one- and two-year deals in July this year, and I think there's something to it. But, man, I'm not sure how they solve it as a team, and I know that's one thing that they're working on

is just managing all the kind of circus that goes on down at the ACC. Tim and Sid, you know these guys? My boys. Your boys. So are they better on TV or are they better on the radio? Well, I haven't watched them yet enough on TV to say if they're better one way or the other. I like what they're doing. I think that one of the evolutions I'm seeing and it's something I'm trying to embrace a little bit, even myself is, is that, you know, there's some entertainment involved in this. It's not just, you know, we don't have to be stuffy and, and, you know, deliver. I mean, people want information. Don't get me wrong. I mean, I think that that's,

that's key that you have to have something to say, but you know, I like the way they say that they're fun and you know, I love doing their show. I've only been on once with them on TV, obviously did the radio show a whole number of times, but you know, I think that they'll succeed at the TV thing here as time goes on. And, you know, I think they're probably finding their way. I mean, they're only not even a full month into their, their new gig. And, you know, I haven't had a chance to talk to them about it.

I don't socially hang out with those guys but on a professional level I have a lot of respect for what they do and I love their show. I would always tune in in the afternoon when they were on radio and I haven't caught them as much on TV but I'm going to try to here. Sorry I couldn't let that moment go without using my horns i like that you have it did you get the copyright or oh shit no i didn't even know it but let's not talk about that uh so tim i'm i'm actually just wondering um and i hear you haven't seen him enough on tv but uh it's hard

for you to answer this question as a rogers employee but i wonder what did you think of that move when it was announced like did it make sense at the time, or did you wonder why you're taking these guys off their successful radio show? Well, I'm no different than anyone in that change is not what you like. And sports talk radio, even if I ever move on and I'm not a journalist, I just love sports talk radio. It drives my wife nuts. If we go to any other city for a vacation or whatever, I want to hear what they're saying

about their teams. And I'm just always curious about that that atmosphere so it because they were such a staple tim and sid of of my afternoon listening i don't you know i don't i'm not listening to the morning show no matter who's on it's just too early you're not a morning guy but not even that it's i'm i just like to drink coffee and read the news i don't want to you know i don't have a morning commute generally at 7 a.m somewhere so if i did i would be listening to all those guys. I don't want to, you know, I don't have a morning commute generally at 7am somewhere. So if I did, I would be listening to all those guys, but I don't. So the afternoon was kind of my sweet spot to listen. So, uh, you know, I miss them, but you know, I've actually, because I didn't really know Brady and Walker cause I wasn't listening to the morning show. I've actually come

to fill that spot now with them. They're good, right? I mean, they, I should point out they've been on this show too. So when you go back to the archives, you can find the Brady one and the Walker one, but they're good at one o'clock, right? Well, I only guessed it with them a couple of times when they're in the morning. So I didn't really know much about them other than, you know,

knowing them as guys and saying hello, but I've, I've come to now they've just basically assumed that role. And I guess that's probably what the bosses were betting on. And, and you know, I mean, they announced it weird considering, uh considering the, what was it?

Walker was good, was originally announced as part of the morning to stay on the mornings. If I'm remembering this correctly. He might've been, I mean, I think that there's a lot of moving parts there. I mean, a lot of things changed. It seemed, you know, when they're bringing Dean Blundell in, there's a lot of different folks I know who kind of interviewed or did,

you know, test runs with him. And I think they were looking for the right mix. And maybe it took some time to settle on that. With Tim and Sid, though, moving to TV, given their pass at the score, which some people might forget about, it made some sense to me. I mean, they started off as a TV duo. But don't they go against the Bobcat simulcast? So Bobcat's a radio show that's also on TV. Right.

Doesn't that go against, uh, Tim and Sid, or am I getting my time slots mixed up? No, it goes, it goes against it. And Bob's,

you know, voice that his displeasure, but that, you know, with Bob, it's a curious decision, right? By Rogers.

Possibly. I think it's, I still think, you know, you have to remember this is such a big tent, uh, that Rogers has, and it has so many platforms.

And, you know, I honestly, and I'm not doing this is such a big tent that Rogers has, and it has so many platforms. And, you know, I honestly, and I'm not doing this because of where I work, so I don't know the actual answer. But part of me must think, you know, Tim and Sid, now it gets broken into little chunks, and it's put on the web, and kids are watching it on their mobile devices, and it's getting shared around the internet that way. I don't see it as competition. shared around the internet that way i i don't see it as competition i don't think that there's an expectation that there's going to be this huge number of people watching from five to seven wrapped with their attention but i think that rogers is using it to to you know hit other platforms and and they skew young oh and bobcat doesn't skew very young i'm guessing i don't know what the numbers say but i would guess not i mean I am as devoted to Bobcat as anybody. I mean, I grew up listening to the guy. I love that he's still around.

Yeah, me too. He can call me. I'd go to his show every single time. Would you consider yourself a friend of Bob? No. But I hear, I've heard you on the show. I've been on it. I'm getting on more and more, but you know.

But you haven't been invited to a round table yet? No, I've done round tables. Okay, okay. You're a friend of Bob. I'm supposed to do a round table tomorrow. You know, Wilner can't get on that show what is that about i asked him straight out he just says bob likes who bob likes you know but if there's a guest on that show like um who's guesting for bob this week jeff blair jeff blair i heard what i've jeff blair will have wilner on right but uh

when bob's hosting uh his, the Primetime Sports, there's no Wilner. Well, I don't know what their backstory is to that, but I mean, it is Bob. Find out for me, because Wilner just said, you know, Bob likes who Bob likes. Okay, next time.

I think Bob likes you. Next time I go into the studio, which I think I'm going in on Monday next week, I'll ask Bob about that. I don't expect that I'll get a revelatory answer, but I'll share it with you. He'll grumble something. Let me know.

But I really, as just a casual listener, it sounds like Bob likes you. You're a friend of Bob. That's good for your career. That's a high compliment if that is indeed the case. I don't know. I mean, look, it's like anything. I keep getting invited back.

So that to me is, I mean, no one's boss, whatever industry you're in, usually praises you enough or tells you you're doing a good job. But for me, it's always been that they still want you to do it and and you know i've been going in more and more with bob and i love his show i'd like to learn from him i mean i think there's an art to radio and and let's face it i'm still a guy at this point i mean i have a certain specific experience that i think i can share and convey to listeners but i don't know what i'm doing i just go out there and talk i actually think uh bob would be fantastic on this show so while you're asking Bob about um you know why he doesn't like Wilner

tell him to come in and do this show drop the names of the people he likes he likes Friedman tell him Friedman's been here tell him Cox has been here he needs to come on and do this show well how big is your budget because the one thing about Bob is he doesn't... I'll pick him up. He doesn't seem to... He'll go in the back of my bike. ...to do much for free, which maybe we could all learn from it on some level. I think that's the persona of Bob. I think the real Bob would be happy to come in my basement and chat with me. I'll ask him.

Just ask him. I don't mind carrying the mail. I just can't promise I'll deliver. That's all I ask. That's all I ask. Okay, so Bobcat, here's another question about Rodgers versus TSN. If you could poach somebody from TSN,

like just one person off their roster and bring them over to Rodgers' stable here, who would you poach? You only can poach one, TSN. What gap are we filling? I mean... You're thinking far too much. But who do you think is the most talented,

we'll stick to hockey, the most talented hockey person on the TSN roster? But see, I'm going to have some self-interest in this. If I'm going to answer this, right? Because, I mean, who wouldn't say Bob McKenzie? But as someone who's trying to come up and break news, I mean, why would I add someone ahead of me on the depth chart? I mean, it kind of forces me to, do you know who?

I hear you. Here, I'll spin this differently, but it's still an honest answer to your question. A guy I think that is chronically overlooked and probably not given enough attention to is Jonas Siegel. Okay. Who covers the Leafs. Good answer. For TSN radio. He used to do it for AM640

and I I you know we're we're friendly we're not best buddies he didn't come to my wedding or anything but I I really respect the work Jonas does and you know I think someone not necessarily poach him but you know I think we're going to see this guy grow into a much bigger role because he's still a very young man and I think he's quite talented. So you're okay with some of those, those fuckers at TSN. I'm okay with all the Kiprios would say I'm okay with all of them. I mean, as I mentioned,

I mean, Pierre LeBron is certainly the biggest influence of my career. I'm Bob and Darren Drager have been just fantastic with me. I mean, there's no, the rivalry is all professional. It's sort of, it's almost like hockey itself.

Like you want to beat them on the ice, but you don't mind having a beer and a laugh afterwards i mean i think i think that that's mutual and and i think at the boss level because the stakes are higher for our bosses in terms of money and all that that that it's maybe a bit more personal but amongst us i've i have never seen anything even like even kipper saying that in his tweet yeah which was clearly a direct message which was supposed to be a direct message yeah but still i guarantee you knowing kipper that there was no venom there i didn't even work actually at sports night when that i can't remember that was a fun rivalry though he has a while back now right well but the young years of

twitter right and and but i swear i i mean i should ask kipper about it i don't think that was delivered with venom i I really don't. I think it's kind of, it's just part of the joke even. I mean, I'd love to know who he was sending it to because that would give us the context we need to really kind of break that down. That's funny. Yeah, Kipper's another guy.

He got me into the, no, I was, I don't want to, shit, I'm not going to remember the name. Stu Gavin, I guess. Stu Gavin got me into the alumni lounge one night when I was at a Leaf game because he was financial advisor to Humble Howard Glassman, who was a friend of mine. So I got into the alumni lounge and Kipper was there. So I got to hang with Kipper one night at a Leaf game

and that was pretty exciting to get in that alumni lounge. I love Kipper. He's hilarious. He's one of the guys, I must say, when you come, especially for someone like me, when you're coming in and it's kind of a writer and you don't have that, maybe the profile certainly of a lot of the people you're working with. And, you know, especially that first year I get hired by Sportsnet and all of a sudden I'm doing like a news panel with them from time to time. I mean, he was the most welcoming guy that you can imagine. Good. I remember at the end of the year, we did the July 1st show, and he said, we had a great year.

Have a good summer. I can't wait to get you back. It's great having you on the team. And it's funny, even as an adult sometimes, in this world, especially TV when it was newer for me, that it meant a lot.

And Nick has really been a big supporter of mine. I appreciate that. I play hockey every Tuesday night, and in the dressing room after the game, like to a tee, they all have this, they all share this opinion. They think they don't like Strombo in that hosting spot on Hockey Night in Canada.

They all like, they all want Merrick to get that spot. Like it's a very, I don't know how it came to be. I think it has something to do with the fact that Merrick's from that neighborhood or something maybe that's mixing in and they just don't think strombo's the right fit fit for that position but they all want strombo removed and merrick brought in how do you think strombo's doing in that uh hosting spot i think that that this conversation will will die down considerably in year two from year one i mean it would make

sense i mean ron mclean if i remember was was not very popular when he took over from dave hodge this conversation will die down considerably in year two from year one. I mean, it would make sense. I mean, Ron McLean, if I remember, was not very popular when he took over from Dave Hodge. And, you know, I don't watch the show as much as most people because I go to most Saturday Night Leaf games. So I don't actually sit down and spend the time a lot of your buddies do probably deconstructing it. But the same was true for the last 10 years with Ron.

I mean, I've basically not been watching weekend hockey, especially very often when hockey night is on. I'm a big Strombo fan, though. I really am, too. Me, too. There's an episode you've got to listen to, Strombo. It was long, I saw. Yeah, well, not as long as Merrick's.

Oh, really? Merrick went longer. I didn't listen to Merrick either. Yeah, I like both those guys. The one thing I'll say about George is that in discussing kind of what this is with him, I think he's got a real vision for changes he wants to make to the show and how maybe the whole thing goes. And, you know, I don't certainly expect that would be his call alone.

There's a lot of voices at the table when you're dealing with the most important hockey product we have, but what you, but you're hearing is they're going to change it a little for year two. And I think that, that we'll see George's personality come through even more. And, and you know, I don't think he did a bad job.

I think honestly, as so much of this is tied to the change and then people don't like differences and they don't. And I don't look, I'm not going to fault the viewers of viewers are the ones that, that pay us all essentially in a very roundabout way if people don't want to watch and the game's still the star of the show anyway the other knock i in fairness to george who i've been a big fan of for a long time like i have a lot of time for george i think he's great but uh

that dressing room on the tuesday nights is very pro leafs and they all know Strombo is a Habs fan. So I always wonder how much of this has to do with their distaste for George. See, I think that's great though. Sort of what I was saying with Tim and Sid, you know, I do think that, that we're trending more towards entertainment here and, and, you know, I think that the George, he's going to appeal to a different type of audience. And, and, you know, guys like my dad, you know, I didn't ask my dad about George specifically, but he's in his 60s. He's been a hockey fan his whole life.

Still loves Don Cherry. He's not going to like George. Probably not. He might, though. That's my guess. He might, but his demographic, it's a tougher sell. But look, I mean, we already have this sport. It is what it is.

Guys like my dad are certainly going to watch every game. He doesn't have much. Right. You want to see the game. The stuff you dress around it is fine and dandy, but most of us are there for the game. But how do we grow it, right? How can we appeal to younger kids living in a city like Toronto, Mike?

I mean, I'm sure with your own kids, I mean, it's hard. The Leafs have done so little to capture kind of the imagination. It's video games. My son learns so much about the roster. He knows more players than I do, and I always ask him like, how do you know that guy? This, that he goes video games, like they play these video games. And I think the video game is how the kids are learning hockey. But that's, that's, that's good. I'm glad that's

the case, but I think that there's still things that, you know, it doesn't always have to be hockey in Canada, but I think there's, I think George might be a little bit like Phil Kessel to some that maybe he'll, he'll appeal to kids or to maybe a different audience that we're ignoring a little bit. And I think in hockey, the success of it... I'm a sucker for this game. I just love it. And if we can grow it and make it even bigger than it is, I think that would be a real win.

And I think George can help do that. How does a team like Toronto hire a guy like Lou Lamorello and not have that, not have any of you guys have it first? Well, I'll tell you, I talked at the press conference last week, I talked to a pretty senior member in the organization

and he told me he found it on Twitter. So I'm guessing that was kept to I mean, obviously Shanahan himself and Lou would know, but I mean, Lou does a lot of things that don't get out. And so does Brendan. And you know,

he was, but didn't they have to have permission from Lou's boss to talk to him? Or am I mixing up rules? They did, but they, they got permission from the owner. So just so the owner knows Lou knows and Shanahan knows, and that might be it.

Possibly. I mean, at some point I would think Kyle Dubas would be brought into that. He's the assistant general manager, but he might've found out as the basically, Hey Kyle, we're hiring Lou Amarillo tomorrow. Like it might not have been,

I doubt he was privy. I don't know for sure, but I doubt he was privy to the whole four months of talks. And, you know, I actually asked Mike Babcock how long, I had a phone conversation with him last week, how long he knew, and he was quite cagey,

but it was evident he had known for at least a couple weeks, just reading between the lines. He didn't confirm that, but he didn't say it was a surprise. But it was kept close circle. And, you know, the other side of this, I mean, I can't really speak to why it didn't come out from the New Jersey end, although, look, maybe New Jersey wanted him gone. And having it come out.

Well, there hasn't been great success lately. And he's 72 years old. And he's a big figure, right? He built that organization. And to have him in a reduced role, I think, could be uncomfortable potentially, I think, for him and the team. So there wasn't a lot of motivation from their end I would guess to leak it because leaking it could have potentially damaged it's you know whether it was going to happen or not from the Toronto end

you have this new front office now yeah they're trying to build trust amongst themselves you know I know a number of those guys professionally and I talked to them and they're getting more and more closed-lipped about everything. But I don't think it's all secrecy. I think it's about proving to each other that they can keep something like this a secret. Do you think this was a good hire by Shanahan? It's an interesting hire. It's good that I think they really did need someone with experience in the front office.

You know, what we're all going to, the natural question and what we're all going to monitor here is how well does Lou play with others? And, and, you know, coming from a situation where, as I mentioned, he built the organization himself, he literally had his hand from what I understand and everything, be it ticketing, marketing, sales, he, you know, he was part of, he knew that organization up and down and, and, and he kind of ruled, I won't say with an iron fist, but, I mean, it's pretty clear that you had to sort of raise your game

to a certain standard to work for Lou. And the flip side of this is those that did work for him swear by the guy. Like he really gets loyalty out of the people that work for him. And so the question will become can he come into this situation and really truly play well with others and really truly be a mentor to a Kyle Dubas and at least professionally a Mark Hunter and even Brandon Pridham, Leafs, Capol, just can this all be positive? Because Brandon Shanahan is the guy in charge and I think the one

really tasked with making sure this is harmonious, I believe it will work. So you don't think there's too many cooks in the kitchen? There are a lot of cooks in there. But I think that that's normal now. I think that that's where the NHL is at. But who's the... Is Shanahan the big cheese? He's the boss.

So he's the final guy? He's the boss. And the board has given him autonomy? Or does he still have to run things by the board? This whole organization has always confused me. so you got lose like the gm but the dubas and and hunter and then you gotta so when they agree on something and shanahan has to bless it and does it have to go to a board like it just seems really bureaucratic it is and i think that's been part of the issue i think that that not having a clear hierarchy and decision making, I think has led to some

bad decisions to simplify it. Oh, like Jeff Finger? Maybe. Okay, keep going. Wow, I love that's on the top of your mind in July 2015. That's just right there for you to reference. How long ago was Jeff Finger? Five, six years. Okay, feels like yesterday. He's right out

of hockey, put it that way. Hey dude, I'm still tweeting about Joe Carter's Homer in 93, so it's all a blur. So you're not maybe absorbing the newer teams as well. You're just living in the past. Yeah, I'm still celebrating Ernie Witt's big win at the Pan Am Games here because we want Witt.

That was awesome. Yeah, that was awesome. I don't remember a walk-off, failed pick-off attempt like that to win anything like that. That's amazing. It don't remember a walk-off, failed pick-off attempt like that to win anything like that. That's amazing. It was notable. But when it comes to the Leafs. Brilliant chaos.

Keep going. When it comes to the Leafs. So I think that this is, I guess the biggest now when we look at it, what role does that board have? Because for so many years, it was always the board. When Brian Burke was hired, it was universally accepted that was a great move because he would tell the board. You know, when Brian Burke was hired, it was universally accepted. That was a great move because he would tell the board to mind its own business essentially. And, and, you know, I haven't heard of any grumbling like that. I mean, there's certainly not any

speculation that they've interfered. And I think that, you know, in a lot of ways, that's the, the beauty of having a Brendan Shanahan is that, you know, I don't think a lot of people are going to trifle with him professionally. And, and, uh, you know, I don't think a lot of people are going to trifle with him professionally. And, and you know, I do think that Lou, it took Lou four months to take this job from when Brennan first reached out to him. Surely every conversation they had about it for four months was, how is this going to work? Essentially would be boiled down to that.

And I don't think he would come here. This is where I could be proven wrong. If you, if he really wanted to exert himself the way he has in the past. I think he's going to embrace the opportunity to share his knowledge, to be part of a team, and to try to do what everyone's been doing for 45 odd years here and make this a winning organization. I was talking to a big time Senators fan the other day, and he said he's nervous now for the first time in a long time because he sees that Shanahan is sticking to the plan. And his biggest concern is that if Shani sticks to the plan, we may very well be competitive in a number of years. Will Shani

stick to the plan or will they at some point start their shortcuts and their quick fixes that end up sending us back again? It will work if they stick to the plan i mean i nobody do you think i mean you don't have crystal ball do you believe in the shanna plan and he'll stick to it i do because everything he said publicly and privately when i've been around him like there's no hint that he's wavering um there's there's no second guessing i mean i think this guy maybe a little bit under talked about here because there's been so guessing. I mean, I think this guy, maybe a little bit under-talked about here because there's been so much to talk about, is how impressive, you know,

I think he's been since taking the job. I'm not, it's too soon to evaluate results yet. And, you know, really, I guess you could say cynically, all he's done is blown up the organization and fired everybody and hired new people. But, you know, the way he's presented himself publicly and expressed that plan, and, you know, so far's presented himself publicly and and expressed that plan and you know so far i haven't seen moves that suggest a shortcut i mean in free agency they

just filled out a team for next year they signed guys at cheap cheap relatively cheap deals one in two years you know we can all see that a large number of them will likely be traded by the trade deadline for draft picks right um you know i like a a lot of what Kyle Dubas has said about turning the ECHL team that the Leafs have into kind of a double A type of thing where... Which team? What's the team called again? Orlando Solar Bears. Orlando Solar Bears.

Okay. But that to me just makes sense. I mean, when he said it, it was so plainly obvious that, I mean, if you have the money the Leafs do, I mean, a lot of organizations couldn't afford to essentially operate two minor league teams. But what they're saying is it's not a demotion to go to Orlando now for their young scorers. Let's have them be first-line players down in the ECHL

rather than grinding it out in the AHL. I mean, a lot of that makes sense. And I really must say, I can't find much to fault them on right now. I mean, they haven't done anything that we can really say, well, the proof is in the pudding. But I think they've built an impressive front office. They've added some prospects here in the last two years

that I think the fans should be excited about. And I believe that they're going to be patient with them, which, again, goes back to sticking to the plan. And now they have one of the best coaches, if not the best coach in the NHL, on an eight-year contract who's here for a long time, under no pressure whatsoever to win next year or the year after.

I mean, it's hard to criticize the Leafs right now, but they're still very far from winning a Stanley Cup. And we'll find reasons along the way here as it goes on. And the nice thing is, our expectation levels are perfect in this city. As a lifelong Leaf fan, I have zero expectations for next year. And it's just we're all committed to the Shannon

plan. So let's go. And Toronto always would have been. I mean, come on. We'll put up with a few shitty years if there's a light at the end of the tunnel. This is 10 wasted years you're looking at from the end of the 0405 lockout to now where the organization was wandering in a forest most of the time.

And there was no clearly executed plan and and you know and and back then i think people wondered what would the market you know would it take that i you know i i think that these are some of the most devoted hockey fans in the world i i'm clearly biased because i you know live downtown but i think this is the best hockey city in the world and And, and there, there has to be a point where this organization gets it together. And it seems to me that they're starting to build that a little bit. One final thought before we wrap things up is that, and I told you this briefly via Twitter,

but your initials are CJ. Do you know that? Yes, you do. Okay. So I used to work with another CJ who I uh, I, I was always a lifelong hockey fan and I think it was a world championships, but she told me she knew a guy who was covering them and I should follow this reporter, Chris on Twitter. And I started following you. And so

I started, that's when I discovered you, if you will, is your tweets. Cause no one was really tweeting about the overseas tournaments and stuff. Nobody. Well, I guess I owe Chantel a thanks then. That's right. So you owe Chantel a thanks. And then one day I remember I was listening to Bobcat and I'm not in my car very much, but I'm listening to Bobcat and you're on and I'm like, that's the guy.

And it's like, whoa, you know, there you go. You're big time now. Not yet, but I'll get there. You're getting there.

And radio is interesting for you because you may look young, but on the radio, people think you're a grisly old 60 year old veteran. Is that a great voice? Ah, it's cool. I like it. Hey,

thanks for doing this, man. That was a lot of fun. Anytime. Good to, good to chat with you. Thank you. And that brings us to the end of our 131st show.

You can follow me on Twitter at Toronto Mike andris is at reporter chris see you all next week