Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Chris Wardman: Toronto Mike'd #840

Episode Date: April 28, 2021

Mike chats with Chris Wardman about playing in Blue Peter with the late Paul Humphrey, and producing for Chalk Circle, Breeding Ground, Art Bergmann, The Watchmen, Rusty, Big Wreck, Emm Gryner and more. There's also a great story about The Tragically Hip's Up To Here.

Welcome to episode 840 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. Contact Barb, she's Barb, at cdntechnologies.com.

Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majeski, or as I call him, Mimico Mike. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com. And joining me this week is Chris Wardman. Welcome. How you doing?

I'm doing good. Whereabouts do we find you this fine? Oh, it's my afternoon. But yeah, it's your afternoon too. Where are you right now? Yep. I'm on Denman Island in BC off Vancouver Island. How long have you been there?

This is year number five. If I put in 20, I will be considered a local. It's honestly, it sounds amazing. Can I join you? Is there room on that island for me? There's strangely a lot of people living in this area that have migrated from Toronto. And is one of the few negatives, I suppose, that you don't have the most stable of Internet connections.

Is that right? No. Yeah. I'm the last house that can get Internet on my road. Wow. So we have the Elon Musk option, but you need to be able to see the satellites through the trees, which I can't do. Musk option, but you need to be able to see the satellites through the trees, which I can't do. Okay. So just to let the listenership knows that if the audio conks out, we'll have Chris kill his video and we'll do our best here. But I'm just happy to have you on the show.

How do you feel? I know you got your vaccination yesterday. Yes. It's a little icky where the nanobots went in, but otherwise I'm feeling good. So you don't have any like achy chills or fever or anything like that? No, I'm very happy not to have that. And a very personal question you can you can refrain, but which variety of the vaccination did you get in your arm yesterday? I got Pfizer. Okay, maybe that's it. I don't know. I got the AstraZeneca in it. It knocked me out for a good day and a half, but I'm really happy to hear that you don't have such effects. Yeah, I'm happy to

hear that. I'm pretty happy too. Now, lots of ground I want to cover with you, Chris. One fun fact before we get a little heavy, and then we'll lighten up again. But one fun fact is that by pure coincidence, my next guest next week is Christopher Ward. Yeah. Yeah, I met him in the SoCan elevator in in the 80s and i wished that i was getting his check instead of mine right his black velvet money uh but it's funny to me like he was he was playing your videos at one time have you ever been mistaken for him like somebody i don't know somebody had saw christopher ward on some lineup and thought it was Chris Ward. Has that ever happened?

Yeah. Recently, I was having a conversation with someone who mixed us up about songwriting, thinking that Christopher Ward wrote songs for Blue Peter. Oh, yeah. I think when Chris, yeah, I'll get them confused now. When Chris Wardman was working with Atlanta Miles in those heydays. But Christopher Ward has a new album out. Like he's been recording his own music again.

So he's out, you know, he even recorded his own version of Black Velvet. So this is what we'll be talking about next week. Yes. I remember hearing demos of the original black velvet when i was at sounds interchange with kevin doyle and did you like that song like what are your thoughts on black velvet well he had played me a lot of atlanta miles demos and i thought that one was pretty good it is a great you know it's held up i, like it's how many decades old now, but still a banger. Like that's still a jam. Yeah, and a worldwide hit.

Yeah, that doesn't hurt. Now again, we're speaking here only weeks after we lost Paul Humphrey, who passed away far too soon at the age of 54. Would you mind, Chris, sharing with us sort of the Blue Peter origin story and speak to your relationship with Paul? I'll just hang up and listen as they used to say back in the day. Okay, well, he was actually 61. My apologies. Okay, well, he was actually 61. My apologies. So I had bands all through high school and with various singers and musicians in them.

And Paul was like a friend of our bass player at the time. And he wasn't a singer. He was playing flute. And we got him to jam with us. And I guess, like, then our singer at the time left, and we were singerless. So Paul had jammed and sang, like, songs like Sweet Jane. And it was, you know, it definitely wasn't a sure thing. But we decided to place our bets on him as our front person, and he evolved into it for sure.

At the time, the path for a Canadian band or a Toronto band was to become a bar band and play cover songs and maybe slip in a couple of originals into the second set when no one was noticing and everyone was drunk. So we were sort of looking at that path but coincidentally New Wave and punk was breaking and there were clubs in Toronto where you could actually go down and play original music. So we were so lucky to hit that exact moment in Toronto history, I guess. You caught the wave, so to speak, no pun intended. Yes. The new wave, yes.

That's right. So yeah, so we were playing original music. It was still challenging at the time. We're touring outside of Toronto in places that were still in R.A.W.K. mode. But it was interesting foraging a path, I guess. And we had success beyond our wildest dreams doing that. Now, I credit you as a Markham band. Would you call yourselves a Markham band or a Toronto band?

Blue Peter, I mean. The core of the band was always based in Markham. Paul is actually from Willowdale. So he was like our, you know, Toronto friend. And Markham was weird because it was very rural at the time. It was a very much a small town. And at the high school, there were the people that went to Toronto every time they could get their driver's license and then those probably never left. And we were definitely going to concerts and doing everything we could in downtown as soon as we could.

What's the original Blue Peter lineup? For our first EP, it was Jeff McCooit on bass, who was from Markham, and who was Paul's friend who brought Paul into the band. And the drummer was Mike, I'm sorry, the drummer was Ron Tomlinson, who was actually from, I believe, Ajax. I have kind of a cool little piece of audio, and I don't even know, Chris, if you have this or have heard this, but a friend of the show in FOTM, like yourself now, is Brother Bill. And when Brother Bill was on the air at CFNY, he took with him, when he moved out west, like you did, he's in White Rock, actually, but when he moved out west,

he brought a bunch of cassettes with him, and he recently started uh ripping these cassettes to to mp3 files and he's been sharing a bunch of me so i'm just going to play a little of uh somebody a voice you'll recognize introducing uh a song by blue peter so here's a little taste of that. Oh, what a lovely night it is for a party tonight. Anyway, good evening ladies and gentle phones. It's nice to be here. This of course is Marston at Ontario Place. And this is the bandstand.

And I am David Marston, I believe. Thank you. Blue Peter! Marsden, I believe. Thank you. Blue Pills! Thank you. I feel a walk in the walk I've got your message Loud and clear Jump in the car Walk at the steer Time is a pity

You make me so wise You take my scissors And cut all my ties Time is a pity I heard what you said Your pride together Is making me rage So Chris, you got it right away. How well do you remember playing the Ontario Place Forum there

and David Marsden introducing you? That actual show is not the forum. It was some outdoor show on a grassy field somewhere not exactly sure where but it wasn't the actual forum we played the forum a couple years after that okay um i believe for 11 or 12 000 people um i think that is actually 81 or 2 maybe it shouldn't be underestimated CFNY's the fact that it existed

just opened up everything in Toronto for exposing new music. And I mean, we made our first EP and we heard the single on CFNY. Like it was just an amazing time for that. At the time where radio was completely locked down and you just, there was no way to get through it.

Do you remember the personalities? Sorry, continue. I'm sorry. Yeah, and that actually continued into the 90s where like, you know, I'd be producing a record and I would know for sure I was going to hear it on CFNY

as soon as the single was released. And I think I have a couple of those pulled for later. But Chris, do you remember in the, uh, the early eighties with, uh, Blue Peter, do you remember the personalities at CFNY that were sort of key to helping promote the band? Yeah, I, I, um, I'm gapping on all their names, but, um, it was, uh but it was definitely

a great time for that. Is this like, is it Ivor Hamilton maybe? I'm trying to think who would have been there at the time. Yeah, he was in there. I ended up working with him at Pardon? I ended up working with Ivor Hamilton at Universal

years later. You know, he runs marathons now. I don't know if you've caught wind of that, that Ivor runs marathons. Yeah, here's the starting camera. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. All right, I'm going to play a bigger... This was a great jam, but I'm going to play a larger jam, the cut from the album here, just to give us a taste.

So here's a song I'm dying to talk to you about. Okay. guitar solo Caught in this feeling Falling for this romance Life's all around us Won't you take a chance Now I decide It is out of sight Is out of mind Waiting for a second chance

A second time Don't walk on paths Don't walk on paths Don't walk on paths Don't break his heart Now, Chris, well before I learned the terrible news about Paul, at least a couple of weeks before, I actually kicked out this jam on a pandemic Friday of Toronto Mic'd.

We were doing our favourite jams by bands that were from Ontario, but not from Toronto, and I kicked out Blue Peter as a Markham band. I love it. I just would love to hear from you about how this song came together, if you don't mind. We rehearsed at my parents' house in Markham. So it is a Markham song. And our keyboard player, Jason Sniderman, had all the coolest gear, including a Jupiter-8 and a Roland TR-808. And he had left them there. So I absconded with them and figured out how to lock the sequencer of the Jupiter 8 with the TR-808

and then I played a bass line into a two-track reel-to-reel bounced back and forth between tracks and that's basically the nucleus of the song came up from that and added the little up from that. It wasn't exactly that guitar part, it was a little similar to that guitar part. And that was basically how the song got written. What kind of success did this song have? I know it from the radio spins, but would this video be played on MTV, for example? like this video would this video be played on mtv for example i think the first uh canadian indie uh video to be played on mtv i think that's the exact genre or whatever specification of that um and uh it's... Much music launched in 84 or 85, so it was before that.

So we had like used up all the record companies money making this fantastic video that might have been played on the new music or whatever in Canada. So, you know, there wasn't really, you know, a great rate of return to be seen at the time. But all our favorite bands had cool videos. So we wanted to do that as well. We insisted on shooting it on film because so many Canadian videos were being shot on actual video. And they looked like Eaton's commercials or something at the time. So we were hoping to make it look, you know, more film style.

Our Jason Stardeman, the keyboard player, it was his idea that she used the Blade Runner influence. And Blade Runner was, what, 82, I think, or something. It was right in there. So he actually had, like, an advanced VHS copy or something to show to the director, Rob Cortland, to say like, this is what we wanted. Because, you know, I think... Hey, Chris, I'm thinking we should kill your video now

and just go with audio for the rest of the chat. Yeah. I'm making the call. your video now and just go with audio for the rest of the chat. Yeah. I'm making the call. I make the tough calls around here. How did Jason Snyderman, how did he end up in the band? We had a sound man named Matt Studi and um he had recommended jason um originally when the band started paul played all the keyboards and so like on chinese graffiti that's him playing or like the live clip you played that was paul playing uh the keyboard part

when we recorded that we got malcolm burn to play that, who's now a producer and was at the time in Boys Brigade. And so we were sort of expanding into wanting to have more keyboards. And so Matt hooked us up with his friend Jason, who just happens to be the son of Sam the record man. Yes, I was gonna get to that. So that's why he had all the cool gear, right? Because his dad was Sam Snyderman, who is a.k.a. better known as Sam the record man. Which is a fun fact. Yeah, and who are also huge supporters of Canadian music at their store.

Right. Well, it's a good uh hook up anyways right like they're gonna heart they're gonna really promote a band uh if uh jason's in it yes uh we actually you know we didn't do it for that and it was always sort of awkward that uh of who he was and he would always try and downplay that sometimes that works against you actually yes very yeah a lot for jason um who's who now his project is called ensign broderick who i also worked with as a co-producer on that cool now just back to uh paul for a moment uh because now we're talking about the videos and such and one thing that strikes me about Paul Humphreys was that he had this,

like this, he had this look that was made for video. Like it's almost, you know, when somebody says you have a face for radio, well, Paul had a, had a face for, for video. Yeah. And I mean, also like I, I was working on upgrading that video to 4k recently, so I spent a lot of time looking at it. But it's amazing that the whole ending where he's dancing, like, there's no choreography. It was just like, OK, roll it, roll it, go. He just made all that up.

And also the idea of having the two suits that were interchangeable and sort of opposite colors. All that stuff was just him doing that. and sort of opposite colors. All that stuff was just him doing that. I have a couple of questions from listeners when I told them that Chris Wardman was coming on the show. After I explained that it wasn't Christopher Ward, it was Chris Wardman, they said, okay, here's my new questions.

Okay. So Adrian Stickland says, please ask him which Southern Ontario band that he saw. I'm going to change it a little bit, that you played a show with, that Blue Peter played with, that you liked the most. Do you want to shout out any other Southern Ontario bands of that era that you enjoyed playing with? Or even see?

On the spot, I think probably Boys Brigade were our favorite at the time. I mean, coming up, we played with The Numbers and bands like that. Our first gigs at the Turning. Yeah, I'll go okay and DJ Dream Doctor says hi Toronto Mike I was a big fan of Blue Peter and I'm looking forward

to your interview with Chris Wardman he goes on to recommend some tracks he wants to hear he says my question for Chris Wardman is was Blue Peter Canada's Spandau Ballet? Hopefully not. I don't know.

I can see the similarities. I loved the early Spandau Ballet where I thought they were a lot more aggressive. But the later sort of slower stuff, not so much, but I, I could, I, I recognize that comparison, but I, I would, was not going for that. Gotcha. And when you were, you know, friends, friends and, and performing with Paul Humphrey, uh, were you aware that his dad, uh, Jack Humphrey had worked on a whole bunch of TV shows that you knew and loved, you know, from King of Kensington to Hanging In. Yes. I mean, he worked with his mom, so they were broken up. And so, yeah, we didn't have much contact with his dad, but we were aware of that. All right. Cool. Cool. Now we're going to I guess my question is,

do you think you guys gave up on Blue Peter too early? When I look at the, and again, who am I? This is like Monday morning quarterback or backseat driving, but it feels like it was a quick end to Blue Peter

and that is it possible you gave up too quick on that band? Tell me your thoughts on that looking Like, it was a quick end to Blue Peter. And is it possible you gave up too quick on that band? Tell me your thoughts on that, looking back decades later. The short answer is it would seem yes. We had been slogging away for about nine years, I think. So it was Paul's decision to leave the band because he wanted to try other things. We were 25 when the band broke up. So that was, you know, a young age to have done all that.

It is true that the band probably would have broken. I mean, also earlier, you know, it was all sort of new to the Canadian business. So there wasn't really a model to get forward. And major labels were still skeptical of signing weird new wave punkish bands and all that stuff. So, yeah, it would have been good to go further at the same time. We were like, uh, definitely, um,

sampling the rock star sort of life. So it was probably a good thing that we stopped. Well, sure. But, uh, like some of the acts, like if we look at some of the acts that you guys open for,

uh, like simple minds, boomtown rats, the police, the jam, like this is, these are these are some you know some formidable bands here uh i feel like anyway obviously it sounds like paul wanted to do uh other things which is of course his right and he wanted to work in theater and do some uh sound design and work on a whole bunch of different projects like that. But you were, you know, you were right there with the heavyweights and you had a great sound.

You know, you could have been the police. Yeah, it's weird too because, like, in BC we were not well-known, but in Ontario we were, like, so, at the time, we were, like, so well-known. And every show we played would be sold out. It wouldn't be a question. We were definitely riding the top of the wave. Is CFNY the reason for that Ontario success? If you could pull in 102.1, you were a blue peter fan yeah i i totally think so um i mean and based on that we were getting our play on chum fm and q107 and obviously college stations and all that but cfny was

definitely the driver and i think like uh chum fm and q were probably like trying to be more like cfNY and play these weird acts that, you know, they wouldn't necessarily have touched otherwise. Right. Before Q took that, you know, that hard turn to rock the R-A-W-K, as you said earlier. And then I feel like that, that iteration of Q wouldn't touch Blue Peter, but. The Q when it was Zeppelin.

Yes. Right. All right. I'm going to play another jam. Again, it's part of the reason I wanted you on. It's not just Blue Peter, but it's all the great music you've produced. So maybe just to wrap up the Blue Peter era here, it sounds like Paul wanted to

do other things. So you dissolved in 1985 and you went on to do some other things. i'm going to play a jam that i play every every day on april 1st i play this song and i think it's a tremendous song so i guess you can guess what's coming but i'm going to play a bit of this and then we'll talk about this jam yeah yeah okay Okay. guitar solo See yourself In a brand new way My open arms

Through your troubled days Wish for your smiling A battle I am torn To see it through To God I've sworn I've sworn No April Fools Behold today

When my heel falls And yours will stay. Wow, just like Don't Walk Past, here's another sort of staple of Canadian radio at the time. This is Chalk Circle's April Fool. So tell me how you got involved with Chalk Circle. The light man for our band chris peg uh became their manager um i believe we had played with them we had associations with them and um he decided that i should produce them so that was pretty great um so after the band I produced Breeding Ground and then Circle around the same time so it was my first real

production um and I think it's pretty cool uh a couple months ago I was driving around in a listening to the radio and I was in a sea of terrible classic rock and um I found a station from Powell River playing that song and it was like in the middle of the breakdown part and i was like wow that's sort of interesting i wonder what that is and of course it was that but it was like it it it's kind of like the arrangement and everything is like pretty progressive for uh rock radio i think I, it holds up. Like maybe, maybe I don't hold up. Maybe that's the problem. But,

uh, and I'm only a little biased here because the first concert, other than like, like Rafi, an equivalent of that nature, my first ever concert was Chalk Circle at Ontario Place Forum. So whenever you get asked, so I,

you know, that answer gets asked that sorry that question gets asked more often than you think like it's a lot of like what was your first concert like my answer forever has been the truth which is chalk circle and uh yeah which and i missed the place for that show you were at that show i missed yeah i missed the uh i know the they built the amphitheater there which is now the Budweiser stage, but I miss the Ontario Place Forum. Yeah, it was such a great venue. When we played there, we insisted that they turn off the rotating stage.

Well, that's no fun. Actually, our light man, Chris Pegg, the same guy I just talked about, he always had a backdrop so that the spotlights would show up better. We were basically like, the light show was basically the show. We were just spotter for the lights. And so he insisted that it not rotate so that it wouldn't screw up his backdrop. But you're still, like if my math is right, you're still a very young man. And already under your belt, you have the Blue Peter catalog. And now you've got a jam like this.

But it sounds like I might have messed up. I was trying to do it in chronological order and I might have screwed up. Because I definitely have a breeding ground song I want to kick out. But I guess I'm here to tell you that at this very young age, you've got some great jams under your belt because you're the producer for April Fool. Yeah. It was interesting to become a producer

because at the time, producers were still considered old, and I was the young kid, I guess, even at that time. Well, I figure you're still in your 20s. I was young for that. I was like 26, yeah. Okay, now I'm going to just head straight into another jam because I think this is a good time to talk about Breeding Ground. So here, let's go right into this.

I used to listen to Zeppelin and Sabbath, and then I played these guys backwards and heard some pretty weird sounds Yeah, come on Here's the answer Here's the answer Here's the answer I will let him take my hand I will let him take my hand And I will keep him in my heart I will keep him in my heart Because I know he understands

Because I know he understands That he and I will never part. Because I'm happy now I know. Yes, I'm happy now I know. Oh, yeah, I'm happy now I know. I'm happy now I know. You know, Chris, the other day I tweeted that this was a sneaky good Toronto jam, Happy Now I Know by breeding ground.

And I saw the great, uh, Art Bergman liked that tweet. So, uh, we'll get to him in a moment, but, uh,

so you're working with breeding. That's, uh, and that's, yeah, Molly Johnson. That's Molly Johnson on the back. And she's amazing on this song.

And, uh, she really helps, you know, give it, she's fantastic on this song, but talk to me a bit about working with breeding ground and then let me know how molly johnson ended up recording

with breeding ground um we breeding ground and chuck circle were both recorded at a studio in oshawa which but I love the drum sound. They were actually renovating the studio, so where the control room was, was all drywall. So I insisted on putting the drums in there for both projects, and that's

where the great drum sound comes from. So, oh, so yeah, Breeding Ground were with molly so they they asked her to sing and and she's like so great also it must be pointed out that the song is ironic oh it's it's uh not a happy song no and it's not you know right it's it's not pro jesus what right was uh i'm trying to think was it uh i'm getting my names mixed uh altamoda is that the uh molly johnson band yes okay okay not yeah i think so so molly's been over uh if you ever have an hour to kill listen to molly

johnson on toronto mic uh What was it like working with her? She really is fantastic on this song, but what was it like working with Molly Johnson? Oh, it was like on this recording, it was just effortless. She just did like two or three takes and they were fantastic. And then we got her back on the Greeting Ground album a couple years later. She was singing as well because she's just so great. And then I saw her again when I was playing the Spirit of John show at the Horseshoe. And I got to play with her.

So that was a great reunion about five or six years ago. Right. Another sad reason to hear some great music. That was so tragic too, John Mann. I guess in your professional opinion, I'm curious if you think Molly Johnson is underrated in this country. Absolutely. Yeah.

She's just a stellar talent. I'm not sure if she held herself back or, you know, what, but. Yeah. I thought you might have that opinion. Yeah.

Because she is underrated. And I always feel like if Molly Johnson, if she were an American talent that she'd be like, she'd have, you know, her servants would have servants. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, absolutely. All right. So chrono and I'm not obviously you produced a lot of great music and I can't cover all of it.

So I actually just cherry pick some stuff that I was personally curious about. So, of course, I love I wanted to talk chalk circle and i love that breeding ground song but i mentioned uh when i met when i when i tweeted about happy now i know being a sneaky awesome toronto jam uh art bergman uh himself liked the tweet so i'm going to play a little art and then we're going to talk about uh working with him. Okay. Chris, talk to me about Art. What a great track that is. I was a super fan of Art. I was so happy to be able to work with him.

I was like, I made three albums on three different labels with Art over a few years, and I think I was the only consistency of all those. All the musicians, the labels, everything else changed but I was still there. I really love chaos and I thrive amongst chaos so maybe that's why I got along so well with Art. Well he clearly liked your work. Yeah, I mean, he was so disappointed in his first album with John Cale because John Cale at the time was very interested in keyboards and not very interested in guitars.

Right, and that's Crawl With Me. Yeah, and so I believe I fixed that by making the guitars very predominant. Well, this song, I chose this song for a reason I believe I fixed that by making the guitars very predominant. Well, this song, I chose this song for a reason, because it's a great fucking jam, Bound for Vegas. And, of course, this is from 1990's Sexual Roulette. And the producer, of course, if people haven't caught on, the producer is our esteemed guest today, Chris Wardman. So, awesome.

I never get tired of Art's rant at the end of that track and the hello Bono. Well, hey, well, we can, yeah, turn it up. But while we get there, what do you think of your client, I suppose, Art Bergman, being

named to the Order of Canada? Yeah, it's so great. And, you Yeah, it's so great. And, you know, it's obviously surprising to everyone who has known him through the years to see him come out good like this. Yeah, it was like, I was so happy when that happened. I think, and I'm just, actually, I don't think,

I know Molly Johnson also has been named to the Order of Canada. So it's back to back, I believe. Yeah, just got to hang out with me actually I don't think I know Molly Johnson also has been named to the Order of Canada so it's back to back I believe yeah just gotta hang out with me

and that'll happen apparently when are you gonna get called I don't even know what that entails like I think they give you

like a some kind of a medal or something I don't know yeah I'm not sure I think you just get to say it

here we'll let Art close up here. Oh, I'm too late. Oh, there you go. A little late there. But okay, so at this time, you... And by the way, in real time, like in the 90s or late 80s, when I'm listening to these jams, I, of course, have no idea who Chris Wardman is, right? So I'm just, you know, it's funny to look back and say, oh're in like 1990. I opened up, who's got a question for Chris Wardman? And Michael Barclay, who's an FOTM, like yourself, he said, he just wrote this. I'll just read what he wrote. He wrote, the demos for Up To Here. Tell us exactly what's he, I know Up To Here is of course,

a fantastic, tragically hip album from I think 1989 or so. But what, you got demos for Up To Here somewhere there? So in about 1989 or so, I was the staff producer at Capitol Records. And they would just have me on retainer to work with acts they were interested in developing and or doing producing jobs like leslie spit trio um and so at the time the tragically hip weren't signed bmg had passed on their option after the um ep and um so they were interested in them but they uh weren't you know they weren't quite sure about the material and the arrangements and things like that. So I was sent off to work with them, I think,

for a week doing arrangements. And at the end of it, I wanted to document it with a demo. So we went into the studio and did a couple days. And then I think maybe like another day or two with mixing. And so that was finished on a Sunday. On the Monday morning, the management sent that tape to MCA in the States. And based on that, they got signed and Capitol didn't get to hear the demo right away wow wow okay well barclay wrote the uh unauthorized biography uh the never ending present i believe it's called off the top of my head uh so he would know and that's fantastic uh what an album that Up To Here was.

Yeah. So like one of the things was the EP was very reverb-y and 80s sounding. So I was trying to undo all that and make it very dry, which the demos were and which was also transferred when they did the first album, which was cool. And I think, I'm not sure if it was Blow At High Dough, but they actually sent for the 24 track so that they could try and match the groove. And that's the first, that is the first Tragically Hip song I ever heard is Blow It High Doe. And I heard it on Q107, the aforementioned

Q107. Well, when it goes back to the intro at the end, that was one of my suggestions. Wow. Instead of fading out. That should go on your tombstone. I hope that's a fantastic, I mean, which is hopefully a long way from now. And that's not, that is not an ad for Ridley Funeral Home, although they're a great,

great partner. So, okay. So I'm looking, I'm just going through all this stuff. Chris Wardman's done. And I'm like, I can't believe he did this.

I can't believe he did that. So here's a song I was obsessed with since the first time I saw it on Much Music, but I was obsessed with a particular version. So I'm going to play the version that I love and then we're going to talk about these rock idols here. Here we go. Born and raised in a prairie town Just a kid full of dreams

We didn't have much but an old radio Music came from places we'd never been Growing up in a prairie town Learning to drive in the snow Not much to do so you start a band Soon you've gone as far as you can go. Winter nights are long. Summer days are long.

Hoardage in May, 50 below. Springtime, Nelson Snow. Rivers overflow. Hoardage in May, 50 below. Woo! Okay, so let's set this up for the people. But this is from Randy Bachman's. Woo! Okay, so let's set this up for the people. But this is from Randy Bachman's.

It's Randy Bachman's Any Road, that's the name of the album. But this song, of course, is called Prairie Town. And Neil Young's on here and Margot Timmons from Cowboy Junkies. So you produced this? Yes. So, yeah. I, when I was like a teenager taking guitar lessons, one of the songs was Blue Collar that I was trying to learn. So meeting Randy was pretty intimidating.

I mean, he was, I, and I just, I worship the guess who as a teenager. So, yeah, it was great to work, to meet and work with someone who was a hero to me. He was hooked up through a lawyer with me, just like, I guess I was still the young upstart producer. And it's like, you you know let's try this guy um so it was uh it was a pretty interesting time to work with him he was and he was super nice so how does Neil Young get brought into this like is that just Bachman reaches out to Neil and then you're like you get yeah I actually I wasn't at that part of the recording um but yeah it was always the intent that he would go and get Neil to sing on it.

And how does Margot Timmons end up doing backup vocals? Well, Graham Henderson was the lawyer and he's married to Margot, so it could have been that. Could have been the Willie Nelson. Yeah, that'll do it. I love these. That's the stuff I love, like Small World Tales. Yeah. Amazing.

Okay, so, and on Any Road, the album you produced for Randy Bachman, there's multiple versions of Prairie Town, right? Yeah, that was something I had suggested to him because I really liked it when he just played it on acoustic and I thought that that should be on there but then of course the rock version is so great well yeah and there's three versions isn't there I think there's an is there a country a country I don't know if you would know better than me I mean you were there I think there I think there were two versions originally okay okay but uh I will say like from the i caught the video on much music because i

watched a lot of much music at this time and it was like randy bachman who i knew i like your i knew guess who and i knew bto and then you neil young who was i was already obsessed with neil young and i love the cowboy and this song like it's like i caught it and forever and i love that whole portage main 15 below like i just love the jam forever and then it's like just caught it and forever. And I love that whole Portage of Maine 15 below. Like I just love the jam forever. And then it's like, just wild to me that I'm now zooming with, uh,

at the end of the internet. I'm now zooming with the guy who produced the track. So that's cool. Um, and yeah, as you may know, Randy has one of the biggest guitar collections of anyone, uh,

specifically Gretsch guitars. So, um So it was interesting on those sessions to keep encouraging him to bring in his vintage gear, which he eventually started doing. They cancelled his great CBC show, Vinyl Tap, and I think he's

actively looking to, I don't know, do it as a podcast or something. So if Randy's listening, I run a small digital services company called TMDS and we do that. So Randy, reach out to me and we'll chat. Is that okay? Okay. And Chris, while I'm doing like shameless plugs, if you were here in person, which sounds like that would never be happening because you're so far away, but maybe in pre-pandemic times you would visit Toronto or whatever. I would be giving you some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes and I would give you a large meat lasagna from Palma Pasta.

And I would give you Toronto Mike stickers from Sticker You. So all that good stuff would be yours. And maybe one day when I do finally meet you, I can hook you up. Yeah, well, I do love craft beer. It's one day when I do finally meet you, I can hook you up. Yeah. Well, I do love craft beer is one of the things I regretted about leaving Toronto, but there's an awesome craft beer scene also on Vancouver Island.

Cool. Cool. Well, look, we got some Toronto craft beer for you when you're, when you're back in town. So I mentioned again, I'm going through like your,

basically it's like your resume or whatever, everything. And I said, then I found that you did this album and anyone who listens to Toronto Mic'd knows how much I adore this album. And I'm not going to name the album. I'm going to play a jam from the album and we're going to talk about it.

But I had this entire band in my basement here because I just am obsessed with the band, with the album. Here we go. I always wonder in your head right now, Chris, are you trying to guess where I'm going? Possibly. So here we go.

Hello. Hit top speed, I smoke the dragon Into the loft I drag my axe down Stick my head under the pillow It's a groovy way down All the covers over It's a groovy to death It's on every turn It's so crooked to death It's only pretend It's a land of You produced Fluke?

Yes. It took a couple days, but yeah. If you, shout out to Stu Stone, shout out to every guest I ever blabbed on about Fluke. Fluke got so many spins, they were to me they were like the fucking Beatles I'm like what an album I was singularly obsessed with Fluke

and I thought it was one of the greatest albums of all time thank you it's one of my favorite albums to have made but yeah it was like done at demo speed let's say which is it's charm It was like done at demo speed, let's say.

Which is its charm. Well, I mean, again, I was listening to 102.1 at the time, and they played a lot of this. And then I was also a big Much Music guy. They played a lot of this. And when I got the album, it was like a playthrough. Like, it was so many, like, singles. And I did, I mentioned, i did reach out to the band uh because you know ken lives in uh where does he live sudbury i believe

so they were in town to do a show and they stopped off at my place on their way uh scott and ken and the rest of the guys i think somebody from the weaker thans was in the band uh anyway fantastic episode of rusty and we talked in like in depth about the album but like from california to misogyny to groovy dead wake me like it's just hit laden it really is um and fun fact that's me on acoustic guitar at the beginning of that song i love that fun fact hit me up with any fun fact that comes to you okay so just it was a real quick thing like they like any anything you can share with me about

there was there was the EP before flute which I think there were five songs that ended up on flute so the EP actually took two days and I think the mix I forget maybe a day or two and it's like the sound of an like neve neve bus distortion which you can buy expensive plugins to recreate but we just did it accidentally

um so yeah it's pretty crunchy I'm trying to say and I like crunchy like I like crunchy so uh I know I got a I know I got a got a Juno nom for best alternative album, which I don't know how it didn't win that thing. And I know the video for Misogyny gets a lot of attention, but I just think every cut on this album is stellar. I know it's of the time, but that's my fucking time, right, Chris? That's my time. Yeah.

And Ken's vocal sound is an eventide flanger and an eventide phaser which i got at uh the former songbird music for i think 60 bucks or something but they were like uh at the in the 70s they were like i don't know like thousands of dollars of like high-end studio gear but they were my favorite because they're so crunchy shout out out to Rusty, no doubt. And another band that I've had, you know, I've had at least, I don't want to, again, I'm not going to name the band. I'm going to play the jam and then we're going to surprise people. But another band that gets brought up an awful lot

and because the lead singer has been over, the drummer has been over multiple times, another member of the band, although I don't think he was there when you produced them, but is going to be on in a couple of weeks. I love this band. I said Molly Johnson is very underrated,

but this band, I think, is highly underrated. Here, let me just play it. Yeah. Showed me around your house of pain I built the wall and stripped away your rage Showed me all the parts that hurt I fixed it with the love that I've brought with you. The love. Even when I see your eyes, I wonder who it might be. Even when I'm inside, I wonder who it might be. So Chris, you produced the first Watchmen album? Yes.

And maybe you had more to do. Tell me everything, because it sounds like you're kind of responsible for this band being discovered, possibly like share that story with me um i love how heavy that track sounds yeah um yeah so uh yeah jake gold um who managed the hip david gogo and a bunch of bands I worked with. Um, he, uh, he was interested in the Watchmen. Um, Oh yeah. Right. So yeah, I went to see them at the horseshoe. Right. And yeah, then, uh, we were trying to figure out how to make a record. Um, and yeah, I, I,

I'm not quite sure of all the details of it, but it was Jake actually, like it was sort of, oh yeah, Jake went in partnership with the studio, Winfield Sound, and they financed it independently. And I think my fee was also part of that. It was like, it was an interesting deal. part of that it was like it was uh interesting deal so yeah there was no big major label thing it was like um and uh we went to i went to winnipeg to rehearse with them at the mclaren furnace room the actual one right hence the name of the album yeah well there's um sorry go ahead oh yeah danny was like one of my favorite singers to work with he's just he sings so in tune it's shocking so good before you know before you could fix all those types of things so good man so good what a great catalog of music but this is where it all

begins the mclaren furnace room and you'rearen Furnace Room. And you're right, you called that heavy sound, but you're right, you almost forget because when you think of future Watchmen great songs, like All Uncovered or whatever, but here you've got that plodding kind of mid-90s heaviness that I just still dig, so I think it sounds

fantastic. Yeah, well, that's what I was going for. I just wanted them to be very very very heavy for sure and for those who don't know i forget sometimes to shout out the name of the song but this is cracked for all you watchman fans out there i know there's many i i mean i just saw him at when i say just i mean just before the pandemic i saw i saw him at the danforth music hall and it was it was full jam-packed, everybody singing along, just people love the Watchmen.

Yeah, I got to play guitar a couple times with Danny at the Spirit of John shows too, so that was an interesting reunion with him. Actually, glad you mentioned that because that show I'm referring to that I saw when I say just before the pandemic, it was probably like maybe it was like four or five months

before the pandemic, but there was a really nice tribute to John Mann that the guys did in concert there, the guys from the Watchmen. So I do I think it was political, so political. I think they played so political, but they also did some other

Spirit of the West stuff in the mix too that I thought was a nice touch. But I have a question for you, Chris. It's from a guy named, I'm trying to get this right, Sammy Cone. Yes. Sammy says... Is it about ride symbols? Yes, yes.

So Sammy says, ask him why he hated my ride symbol. why he hated my ride symbol um the that's sort of my go-to thing with drummers is uh don't go to the ride symbol on the chorus because it's so boring it's like do anything else you have all these other things you can do just you know that that should be your last resort i used to joke that you had to have a special license if you wanted to go to the ride cymbal on the chorus. But I just considered it really cheesy and like a lot of like really cheesy rock music. As soon as the chorus comes along, the drummer's arm like goes out to his ride cymbal.

So yeah, just to make it more interesting and less cheesy is generally what I'd be fighting for. But he also wants me to tell you that he loves your records, BP, and your production work. What does BP stand for again? Blue Peter, perhaps? Oh, yes. Okay, of course. You know, I was thinking it was like an insider term or something.

But of course, it's Blue Peter. So he loves your records, Blue Peter, and your production work. So shout out to FOTM, Sammy Cohn. Cool. I know I promised you an hour, and I might be stealing an extra two minutes here. But because here's a mass. I'm just going to ask you briefly about this massive jam,

and then other artists that has been over and you've done work with, and then a couple of fun facts. Then we'll say goodbye here. But here's just one more jam I want to play since we're kicking them out today. Okay. guitar solo Would you drag around my door If I keep it cracked, they won't hear no more

I would you leave along the way Leave them there and don't come back today Yeah Yeah Don't come back today Yeah Yeah Now who's the one who treats you right? And even that don't come back to fight Now who's the lad who wants to be? I had to let him get to the chorus there. Okay, so what a big fucking radio jam that was.

How did you get hooked up with Big Rack? Also through Jake Gold, who was managing them. And I did, I think, two years of development with them. So they were kind of a bluesy band, and we just kept doing demos and doing arrangements and working and um eventually um got to demos that were pretty similar to the recordings and um i believe a lot of the masters were actually used um i was working with matt the maddio atence Sound, which is also where Rusty did Fluke. And the record was pretty much there.

And then I got a gig working to be A&R manager at BMG Music. So I took that and sort of stopped my production stuff and all that work sort of segued into being the album, which I think Matt took over from there. Okay, so yeah, Matt. So I had a couple tracks that I got production credit on that, but it was sort of a segue. But it was like basically the longest development process of rehearsing and demoing. Okay. Gotcha there.

Gotcha. Okay, cool. Cool. And, uh, yeah, a lot of big radio hits though off this album too,

but, uh, it sounds like you don't get full credit for this. This is a, Matt was producing it after you and there's a sort of a mixed bag of credit going on in the production side. Yeah. But I mean,

uh, the heavy lifting, shall we say, had been done. That song was the song, that song, actually. There's a cut that, well, this song too, of course, that we're listening to. But if you listen to any kind of new rock radio, you couldn't miss it if you tried. So impossible. All right, here's a a woman I love this woman

for a variety of reasons but whoops let me talk it up and hit the post here but I won't do that but let's hear a little bit of this song and talk about M. Griner got a picture of a photograph Of a wedding and a shelf

Just a burning itching memory I never kiss until Turn it up and burn it, there's a hole in your head Hole in your head And birds can't sing along And everybody know how the story really goes Story really goes Do we all just hum along?

Say stolen sun and on a grill This is, of course, one of the many girl versions, if you will. This is, of course, Stone Temple Pilots cover by Em Griner. But I enjoy this entire album of her, you know, so-called her girl versions, if you will. Yeah, it's pretty great. Sort of ironic cover songs, mostly, that you wouldn't expect. Right. Yeah. It was a good mix. And she's great.

I actually recently just stumbled upon the movie uh one week and uh she's got quite the uh quite the uh the role in that like she's she's there with joel plaskett and gore downey's in there and it's just anyway that's an aside but uh big fan of m grinders yeah so uh my wife joni daniels was co-managing her with Michael Murphy at one point. And she used to couch surf at our house. So I've known her well. And she's a huge fan of Blue Peter as well. And she loves all the 80s business.

So yeah, she asked me to produce that record, which was very cool. And her vocals and piano are all live at the same time. We only overdubbed some cello bits on it. And you also had the good fortune of playing with her, right? With Em? Yeah, I've played with her several times. And that's always a lot of fun. She has a soft spot.

Is it a soft spot in your heart? Is that what you have? Anyway, she wrote a song. My dear friend who died from esophageal cancer, he was only 32, but he was a big fan of M. Griner's and M. actually wrote a song for my buddy Mike and Jord jordy uh mike's wife uh and this this song uh continues

to haunt me like i cannot listen to it without crying em's just uh she's that talented so much love to her after paul passed she um passed on a song that she had written um in tribute to him like from a few years ago, which was very nice as well. Absolutely. And again, if I wasn't clear earlier, I just want to make sure I officially give you my condolences. My condolences to you and everyone who knew and loved Paul. That was just some terrible news for our little rock community.

And yeah, I'm just sorry that that happened. Yes, thank you. The closer here, I have no more music. Unless there's anything I missed, let me know. But I was reminded when I had you booked and I tweeted you were coming on, Mark Weisblot, who writes at 1236.ca, he reminded me that you composed one of the more famous Toronto tweets

of the past 15 years the tweet, I'll just read it last Nuit Blanche before future mayor Rob Ford moves it to a daytime event in a beer store parking lot on the Queensway hashtag SNBTO and it was like I guess that was when it looked when it was daytime event in a beer store parking lot on the Queensway hashtag S N B T O.

And it was like, I guess that was when it looked, when it was, the writing was on the wall that Rob Ford was going to win. And that was 2010. Anyway, that one, I remember it from when you tweeted that in 2010 and it was just, it was great because I don't live too far from the Queensway and I know exactly which beer store that it was going to be. It was a reference to that beer store. Yes. Oh, I know it. I know it very, very well.

Not as a little short bike ride from here, but yeah, that was sort of your, that was your tweet and it encapsulated a bunch. So 11 year old tweet. And to catch us up with what you're up to these days like uh you mentioned you mentioned along the way that you sort of you had you know you worked with iver at universal music and you were doing some stuff there in their new music department but uh what are you up to these days um well in in the uh non-covid times i have an have an Airbnb. And I also have a band called Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

That's basically electronic and swing music and some blues. That's a good name for it, WTF. Yes, exactly. And cool. And when I was looking at the stuff you were doing at universal music there it sounds like yeah you know we've talked about the tragically hip but you got to work with some cool artists like uh sarah harmer and even the great oscar peterson yeah those making um dvds i was in the new media department. So all the new technology business, which is what I segued to when I was at BMG doing A&R. So earlier, if you were with us from the beginning, by the

way, killing the video is very wise because your internet stabilized really nicely once we did that. So we'll go back and redo the opening part. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. But we talked about how, you know, if you were in Ontario, you knew Blue Peter because you might be listening to 102.1. And the very same sentiment applies to the band I always close every episode with, The Lowest of the Low, because Sammy Cohn, who's from Winnipeg, he once told me Lowest of the Low wouldn't fill the Commodore ballroom in Vancouver. Meanwhile, a bunch of us here within range of 102.1 absolutely adore this band and think they're just a really big effing deal.

So it's kind of a similar story of a similar uh story i suppose exactly yeah when i meet people from vancouver or when i meet people it's like where are you from in vancouver and it's like okay they'll name like sons of freedom mark bergman things like that because there's no way they've heard of blue peter right unless they're from ontario well i'm happily, I'm here in Ontario and the heart of what is the capital of Ontario, that is Toronto, and absolute pleasure, Chris. Thanks so much for making the time for me today.

I love this. Oh, thank you. It's been fun. And that brings us to the end of our 840th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. And Chris, are you, is it at Chris Wardman?

Or is there an underscore in there? There's an underscore. Okay. I think it's Chris underscore Wardman, I think, is how you follow Chris. Chris underscore Wardman? Yeah. I didn't know there'd be a test.

Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH. And Mimico Mike, he's not on Twitter, but he's on Instagram as Majeski Group Homes. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS

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