Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Christopher Ward: Toronto Mike'd #842

Episode Date: May 3, 2021

Mike catches up with Christopher Ward before he kicks out the jams.

Welcome to episode 842 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Ridley Funeral Home.

Pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majewski, or as I call him, Mimico Mike. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike. From torontomike.com and joining me this week is original MuchMusic

VJ and singer-songwriter Christopher Ward. Hey, Mike. Welcome back. Did you say 842 podcasts? 842. Man, you're a guy who believes in doing something until he gets it right, huh?

Well, let me know when I get it right because that'll be a big moment. That's when I shut it down. It will be. We'll need to party with the beer and the pasta. Oh, absolutely. And you look great, by the way. Nice to see you. It's been a while.

Thank you very much. Yeah, it's nice to be seen occasionally. Well, whereabouts are you in the world right now? I am in Los Angeleseles california in my living room which means that there is a risk of um leaf blowers amazon trucks backing up right and a mini schnauzer whose walk is being delayed today so well i'm i'm used to that like dogs and kids and everything yeah i'm used to it at this point in the pandemic are you kidding me uh by the way last week on toronto mic i had chris wardman on ah and he

tells me he's been confused for you and i'm curious have you ever been confused for uh blue peter founder and uh producer extraordinaire chris ward. Not knowingly, but I may have cashed a couple of his royalty checks and just really not worried about it. So I think, I think your royalty checks are a little larger than Chris Wardman's. But more on that soon. No. By the way, also, I guess you know this for sure, but it's interesting when the SEO that should belong to you, the great Christopher Ward,

has been stolen by some guy who makes watches. I know. The man is clearly an imposter. To me, it's an outrage and it must be dealt with. I know. So all the Christopher Ward Google results are, yeah, some guy who designs watches. So that's not cool.

Yeah, you're going to have to go do ChristopherWard.ca. That's right. CA and proud. Even though you're in LA. Yeah. Well, I'm a Canadian though. You're a proud Canuck and you're in LA because I'm guessing that it's better for your career as a singer-songwriter. Is that why?

Or is it the weather? Why are you in LA? My daughter lives here. Oh, that'll do it. Yeah, that's all it took. That'll do it. I mean, you can make music anywhere these days, which is great. And I do spend a lot of time in Toronto.

I'll be there in another week or so, probably stay for a couple of months and hang. Awesome. Awesome. I just want to let listeners know before we kind of catch up and we kick out the jams, I just want to let them know if you're out there and you're looking for that A to Z, the typical Toronto Mike deep dive

that guests have to endure the first time they come on. That is episode 202. So 202, and I'm going to read the description I wrote at the time. Mike chats with former MuchMusic VJ Christopher Ward about his years on City Limits and MuchMusic, co-writing Black Velvet for Atlanta Miles and his recent dive into the Much Archives for Is This Live? And Mr. Ward, if I may, if I may call you mister, first of all,

I'm telling you, that book, Is This Live? I use it as a tremendous research piece for me. Whenever I have somebody on, be it like a Master T or an Erica M or whatever, I know to go to the Bible, I go to Is This Live? And I get these great anecd be it like a Master T or an Erica M or whatever, I know to go to like the Bible, I go to Is This Live and I get these great anecdotes. What a book. Thank you. You know what,

that's a huge compliment. And I'm delighted to know that it, you know, has that meaning and that usefulness for you because it was meant to be entertaining, but also, you know, there's a certain onus on you when you tell a story that's ideally nonfiction to tell the truth and be representative of the times and the people that you worked with. So I'm glad that it's meant that to you. Thank you. And not just people like former VJs, et cetera, but also like if I had Lee Aaron on and I knew I'd find, I knew I'd find something, some anecdotes, something like it's just anybody from that era in the music world. I can find lots of pictures. It's just a great book. So, and again, we're a few years removed, but as awesome as ever, is this live is the book you

need to pick up. But I also have been listening to Famous Lost Words. Right. So tell us all about that. Yeah, because it's great. It's great. But just give us a little taste. Tell us a little bit about what Famous Lost Words is about. I co-host with a gentleman named Tom Jokic, who's a radio producer.

He produced the Roger and Marilyn show for many, many years at Chum FM. And he is an archivist extraordinaire and loves nothing more than digging through the dusty bins of time at that building and finding all these amazing interviews, pulling the best bits, as he says, listening to them so you don't have to. And then he and I sit and just kind of yak about things. So as promised, here's Exhibit A. Hello. Leo the Schnauzer, who's been in the background. I don't know if you could hear him. He was sort of trying to dig through my carpet down to China, I think so.

Couldn't hear that, but it's nice to see Leo. Leo it is. All right, buddy. Nice to see Leo. So I guess... I have a blast with Famous Lost Words, just so you know. I mean, it's two guys who love music just talking about music and artists and, you know, what could be wrong?

No, honestly, I'm sold. Two guys who love music talking about music. I'm sold. We're going to be kicking out the jams and maybe throughout that process, your new album will come up, but I just want to shine a light on it off the top. rock i would call it like late 70s okay and i love it like it was well well produced and it was great uh but you have a new album coming out because i see it's not out till may 28th and this will drop later today but the new album's called same river twice uh maybe give us just tell us a little bit about uh the new album and then with your permission I'd like to play a little bit of your version of Black Velvet, which I think is amazing. And I've been listening to it all week.

But tell us a bit about Same River twice. Well, you know, my, my day gig is writing with other people and writing for artists and that kind of thing, which is a wonderful job. But I started writing songs two winters ago, and they were kind of feeling really personal and different from what I was normally doing. And I was kind of thinking, what am I going to do with this stuff?

And then I don't know why it came to me that I should make a record. I think actually Mark Jordan is to blame for that because he said to me, Chris, you've got to make a record, man. Do it for your daughter. Is that him on the phone because it's funny you're bringing him up uh i recently had a phone call from him as well uh regarding a podcast studio and stuff so it's just funny to hear you reference mark jordan uh he's gonna be going mike continue with the podcast man it's great right something like that i love mark we're oldest of friends we went to high school together

oh wow but he he was not kidding he basically was like you know what you got to make a record and it's like when somebody says something like that it kind of starts worming away into your thoughts anyway um I I've been writing with two guys Aaron chattervedi and Luke McMaster and um so I played some songs I had for them when we were getting together for writing session. I said, is this crazy? I think I want to make a record. They're like, no, that'd be great. That'd be fantastic. And like by the end of the afternoon, we'd already written a couple of new songs and we were kind of on the way to this thing. So the idea was to do it at the beautiful Orange Lounge studio, which I love. It's got a great vibe there. And to do it at the beautiful Orange Lounge studio, which I love.

It's got a great vibe there. And to do it live off the floor, which in this day and age is a challenge. But we had enough space in the room to be able to use baffles and ISO booths and kind of separate everybody. And the musicians, it was such a liberating experience for them, Mike, because they got to play together. They got to interreact in real time in ways that they hadn't been for so many months. And it was a fantastic experience for me.

And I was really inspired, wrote a whole bunch of new songs. And there is one that I think you know. Okay, so let's talk about that. Of course, Black Velvet. In fact, I was listening to atlanta miles black velvet uh in preparation for this and i'm listening to it and i'm thinking like damn it holds up like it still sounds amazing and it was so iconic number one number one right this is the number one hot billboard hot 100 hit right yeah's crazy. I know there aren't that many of those.

Well, especially pre-streaming era when suddenly you had like a Bieber and a Weeknd and a Drake taking turns at the top of the chart. Like it was very rare for a Canadian to top the Billboard Hot 100. Yeah, it was certainly a high point in my life and career. mean because i the thing is

i when i was a kid i loved charts i used to collect the chum chart when i was a kid and we'd go away in the summertime and i wasn't able to get the new chart so i would make my own i would move songs up the chart and move songs down the chart and so billboard is like you know that's it it's the top of the mountain as you know and like if i because i'm kind of also a little nerdy for the the particularly the billboard hot 100 so like i'll look at canadians who have topped it the 80s there's not much going on in the 80s like you have some brian adams success and you know get you get these one-off fluke things like sheriff or whatever would kind of hey look you know but like it truly is and then you get these one-off fluke things like Sheriff or whatever would kind of, hey, look, you know.

But it truly is. And then you get later in the early 90s as you progress, you know, Celine Dion finds her way up there and then you get Nelly Furtado and whatever. And of course, Barenaked Ladies had that, you know, one week was number one for one week. But Black Velvet, right, right.

Black Velvet topping the chart. That's, you know, amazing. Now, I'm speaking of the Atlanta Miles version, but there's another version. I'm going to play it, and I'll probably give it a good minute before I fade this down, because I want to hear your vocals on this

before I bring it down, but then I'll talk to you about it. So here is a new version of Black Velvet that's on your new album. This is from Christopher Ward. Thank you. Mississippi In the middle of a dry spell Jimmy Rogers On the Victrola up high

Mama's dancing She got baby on her shoulder the sun is setting like molasses in the sky the boy could sing he knew how to move everything always wanting more Always want more He leave you longing for Black velvet and that little boy smile Black velvet and that slow southern style A new religion that'll bring you to your knees Black velvet if you please all right chris i gotta ask the big question on top like why like it's great i'm glad you did it

like what made you want to re-record this song well i didn't want to record it um and all my friends are like so you're going to do Black Velvet? And they kept bugging me. And the two guys I was working with, Aaron and Luke, were a little more adamant at that. They were like, you're doing it. So that was kind of the decision-making process in a nutshell. It was a challenge because, I mean, you know,

Lana's version is, I mean, it's the standard and everybody knows it. And anything you do is going to be compared to that. I've heard a lot of versions of this song, good, bad and different. But Alanis still is the ultimate one. So I didn't try to, you know, better that in any way. Just to do something that maybe, you know, revealed something that people hadn't known or felt about the song from the songwriter's point of view. that people hadn't known or felt about the song from a songwriter's point of view.

And of course, the story, as I recall, was that Much Music sent you to cover the 10th anniversary of Elvis' passing, right? In Memphis or something? That's sort of where you... Yeah, exactly. Love it. They put me on a Greyhound bus

with 40 Elvis fanatics and a cameraman. Wow. Wow. Well, today they just have you go there by Zoom, I think is what they... I don't know if you heard, but there's... Mudge Music exists now as a channel

to show us Simpsons reruns. Ah. We need lots of those. Shout out to, yeah. I miss the old Mudge Music, but I digress here. Yeah, me too. Listening to it, it's just faded down here, but I digress here. I'm listening to it. It's just faded

down here, but you do a great job. I mean, it's different because you don't want to do the same thing obviously because there's an icon. I can't do the same thing. I'm not physically able to sing like that. Know your limitations.

I'm going to rapid fire some listener questions before we get to your first jam. Uh, the first one I, I think is a great one because I'm curious too, but a gentleman named Rodriguez wants me to ask you what's Terry David Mulligan up to and is he still in Vancouver? Do you have any idea what's up with TDM? Um, I communicate with TDM all the time. We are pals. And he has moved to Vancouver Island to a beautiful new home there by the water. And he's still doing his radio show

in Edmonton, I think it is. And he's still doing his wine tasting show. And he's, yeah, he's got his finger in lots of pies. He's always a busy guy. Do you know David Kynes? Absolutely. David Kynes is a great friend of mine. Yeah, I know he was on your show and you guys were talking about like malls in Brandon.

So he was on, yes, he was on the show, I think about a week or two ago. And I talked about Terry David Mulligan and he actually gave me Terry David Mulligan's personal email address. And I have made contact with Terry David Mulligan because I'm very eager to get him to zoom with me for an hour for an episode of Toronto Mike. But TDM at this moment, he's got some stories that guy.

Well, see if you can press him a little because right now he's just so busy right now. He says he can't even think about it for a little bit. But I'm hoping when he comes up for air that he does the right thing and he accepts the charges here. I will speak sharply to him. But this is wild.

The guy who's asking this question, his real name is christopher ward okay so it's not no it's not he's another imposter so chris watchmaker maybe it is it could be that christopher so christopher ward says uh if ask him if we're any closer to another ming t song for a fourth austin powers movie oh that's a good question um you know who ming t is this uh i'm trying to i'm i mean i watched all the austin powers i feel like i should know exactly who ming t is the band that we were in that austin was the lead singer of it's just the bbc one bbc two uh that's me that's ming t yeah with matthewede and, you know, the gang.

So did you write the music? Because I know you go back with Michael Myers, or Mike Myers, I guess. Michael Myers might be a horror movie guy, but go ahead. Well, you know what? Here's the truth, is he credits us all for having written that song, but it's basically him. He's a very musical guy. But it was sure a lot of fun getting to wear a wig for the first time, you know?

Any chance, though, have you heard anything through the grapevine of another Austin Powers movie? Or is this just the other Chris Roy? I would say that there is a possibility of it, but I don't know that it will be right away. Okay, yeah, okay. okay well that's uh good we have some hope here uh elephants and stars which i know is actually uh it's a guy but it's a band because he's been in my backyard for toronto mike shout out to manfred but elephants

and stars asks what's the story behind the original wayne slash mike myers appearance in the video he did and was that the first ever appearance? Now, I know we did cover this your first time, but just because everybody's always curious about this, can you quickly remind us of the Wayne Campbell origin story and how it relates to you? Well, Mike grew up in Scarborough, and I think there was a guy,

I don't know if his name was actually Wayne Campbell, but he was a Wayne Campbell in every respect. Right. So, and you do borrow from real life in comedy. Goodness knows. Right. I met Mike when he was 17. He and I were in the Second City Touring Company together.

And then when I got the gig on the all night show, City Limits, we just, I just asked him to come down and he said, what should we do? And I said, why don't you do Wayne be my cousin Wayne just kind of busting in on the show and causing havoc and he's like yeah I can do that so that became a thing and that was Wayne's first appearance on television was on the all night show you should get

royalties no it's great no I kid I kid this is another good name I like this name george swackhammer george swackhammer wants to know how was it decided which vjs would interview which bands or artists that's a good one um sometimes it was just a matter of you know what the shift schedule was because that would be decided before the artists were coming in and so it would be you know if um you know stevie rayvon was coming in on tuesday afternoon at three

o'clock and that was your shift you'd be interviewing stevie rayvon it was as simple as that most of the time but there was some lobbying involved. So for example, I remember the first really big interview at MuchMusic was Robert Plant. Wow. And it was not J.D. Robert Shift, but man, he was going to get that interview, and he was great and he loved Zeppelin, so it was perfect, right?

Right. And they gave me, actually I got an incredible richness of great interviews, like the George Harrison one is the perfect example, right? Wow. And then there's a good follow-up question from Jerry the Garbage Man. So Jerry the Garbage Man on the heels of George Swackhammer. Jerry says, did VJs have rivalries about who would get airtime?

I've talked to a lot of these cats and I've enjoyed all these combos, but I just can imagine Steve talked to a lot of these cats and I've enjoyed all these combos but I just can imagine like Steve Anthony maybe wanting like some more I'm just guessing but you'll tell us now because you were there but was there any rivalries for airtime well it was a job I mean you know if your shift was from noon to four you worked from noon to four and somebody else worked from four to eight it wasn't like you know if you wanted to have four and somebody else worked from four to eight. It wasn't like, you know, if you wanted to have four and a half hours, you would lobby for it or anything or battle for it. It was just strictly shifts, really. It's, you know, pretty boring answer.

So, well, listen, I have the final question, which belongs to Massimo, which I'm typing out now to remind me. Okay, I'm going to save it for the end. So after your 10th jam, I'm going to ask this final question. So there's like a teaser there. And here's the last true question before I start playing song number one. Christopher Ward,

are you ready to kick out the jams? Mike, I could not be more ready. This is what I have been born to. It was the 3rd of June, another sleepy, dusty delta day I was out chopping cotton and my brother was bailing hay and at dinner time we stopped and walked back to the house to eat and mama hollered at the back door

y'all remember to wipe your feet And then she said I got some news this morning From Choctaw Ridge Today Billy Joe McAllister Jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge. Papa said to Mama as he passed around the Black Eyed Peas. Ode to Billy Joe. The great Bobby Gentry.

So that was for me like a really kind of direct inspiration to writing Black Velvet. I love those southern songs where you can just feel the heat. Son of a Preacher Man would be another example. Rainy Night in Georgia. Those kind of songs, you know. So I wanted to do a theme today mike and that is great opening lines because i know you only play part of the song but i knew you'd have to play the opening line so i mean i you know i kind of made my move here and what are you gonna do about it right hey they're your jams i just press play but. But remind us here. So now that I, because I usually play, I like to get to that chorus or whatever, and then I bring it down or whatever. Remind us of that, because I'm listening in the cans here.

And this is, by the way, I will confess, I know of this song, but I don't hear it that often. I feel like, is it possibly lost to time or whatnot? I'm not sure. But I'm listening to it in the headphones. It sounds great. What's that opening line again to ode to billy joe it was the third of june another sleepy dusty delta day wow yeah i mean that is perfection in an opening line you know where you are yeah you know what

time of day it is you know what the weather's like i love songs that have weather in them very black velvet like I get that. Yeah, you're right. You've captured that kind of essence in Black Velvet, without a doubt. Well, that's a great compliment because this is, to me, one of the most beautiful opening lines in all of popular music in Bobby Gentry's song. And you're right. You know, now I just heard the reference to The Preacher

and you mentioned Dusty Springfield and Son of a Preacher Man, which is a fantastic jam. I always say resurrected for a whole new generation because of its use in pulp fiction. Because as a guy who spun the pulp fiction soundtrack a million times, Son of a Preacher Man was a definite highlight.

Right. Very cool. Very cool. Which that song was written for Aretha. Is that right? Okay. Because her father was, in fact, a preacher. Yes.

Wow. It's funny. Dusty Springfield just came. I just had Carol Pope on the program. Yeah. And very revealing and opened up. She talked about going, because, you know, they were lovers, Dusty Springfield and Carol Pope. Yeah. And very revealing and opened up. She talked about going, cause you know, they were lovers,

Dusty Springfield and Carol Pope. And Carol opened up about going to Carol's funeral and hanging out with the pet shop boys. And I'm listening in, you know, Carol Pope in New York telling me about, you know, going to the funeral,

hanging out with the pet shop boys, having it. And it's like wild. Like, it's like, what a world I live in that Carol Pope is telling me about how she was hanging out with the pet shop boys at Dusty Springfield's funeral. Like, wow.

You know? I bet Carol was a great guest. I'm such a fan of hers. It worked out well. We had some internet issues at the beginning, but we overcame it. And, yeah, I really, really enjoyed that. And I enjoyed your first jam. So let's get to your second jam

like a bird on the wire like a drunken midnight choir I have tried in my way to be free Like the worm on a hook Like a knight from some old-fashioned book I have saved all my ribbons for thee. If I, if I have been unkind I hope that you can just let it go by if I

if I had been unkind he was such an inspiration to me. He's one of those very few writers, you look at the work and you think, you can say that in a song? It sort of changes the game once you have that realization as a young writer. And I think I sort of discovered my sexuality just reading his early books of poetry like Flowers for Hitler and Spicebox of Earth. So when I got to interview him, I was just a little bit terrified.

I'll bet. That would be an intimidating guy to interview, I bet. Well, I don't think he suffers fools gladly, first of all, but just the history. I mean, I had my personal history, and I brought that to the experience. I mean, ideally, you shouldn't do that in an interview. You're not there to bow and scrape. You're there to probe. But he was as genteel and kind and generous with his time as he could possibly have been,

and so it was a wonderful experience. I'll just take this opportunity to cross promote, promote just for a moment, episode 744 of Toronto Mic'd when Michael Posner was my guest. Posner or Posner, actually, now that I can say it out loud, I can't remember how you say this last name, but he was basically about Leonard Cohen's early years. He wrote a book about Leonard Cohen's early years and we just went in deep and

yeah, this guy, you know, poet, uh, and, and, and,

and what a songwriter like, uh, and, and this jam you chose, uh, again, now that I'm onto your tricks, I'm listening acutely to the opening line.

Like a bird on the wire, like a drunk in a midnight choir, I have tried in my way to be free. All I can say is hallelujah, Leonard Cohen. Did you name your dog after Leonard Cohen? No, I did not. Did you log after Leonard Cohen? No, I did not. There's a little postscript to this. When Leonard was inducted into the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame,

they had a wonderful gala event, and they invited some artists up to sing some of his songs, and they had Willie Nelson sing Bird on a Wire. Nice. And it was otherworldly, let's say. Nice choice. Nice choice. Okay. I'm loving this so far, by the way. I love it when, because it's been years since you were on Toronto Mic, then I would, for years, I've been basically thinking, one day I've got to get Christopher Ward to come back and kick out the jam. So I'm just so glad you're here, man. Here we are. And here it is. Kicking it. I'll just try not to screw it up. Okay, here's your the jam. So I'm just so glad you're here, man. Here we are. And here it is. Kicking it. I'll just try not to screw it up. Okay. Here's your third jam. And Francis Skinny Man died of a big disease with a little name

By chance his girlfriend came across a needle and soon she did the same at home there were 70 year old boys and their idea of fun is being in a gang called the disciples high on crack and toting a machine gun time Time Times

Hurricane Annie ripped the ceiling off a church and killed everyone inside You turn on the telly and every other story is telling you somebody died I don't really want to fade it down. Do I have to? Oh, my goodness. Sign of the times. Prince. What a choice. Can we stop dancing now?

Wow. This is your show, so I'm going to shut up and listen to you. I'll just tell you that literally earlier today, I watched his Super Bowl halftime performance. Like earlier today. And not because you picked him but like a complete random coincidence what a talented freak

tell me why you chose this jam I mean there's a million reasons to play a Prince song do you even need a reason he's just revolutionary in every way he was one of a tiny handful of the best live

performers I have ever seen I saw the love sexy tour and I mean I could sell the sign of the times to her as well I mean it was just it was just jaw-droppingly insanely impossibly great every move that he made every second of the show and speaking of dave kines it was my birthday in um i was in toronto and my then wife and i were out having lunch and i got a call from kines he said what are you doing and he is in his kinesian way i said well i'm having lunch with robin it's my birthday he says you might want to get down here i'm like oh he says yeah come on down your name would be the front like okay so i go down and um 10 minutes later prince comes in oh van is all set up in the you know in the space and um they did a show i mean it was short it's like i don't

know four or five songs but i mean it was just again you're just a gog at what this man was capable of doing live and to see it you know you're literally like in a living room space sharing it with prince and his band and when you hear other like great guitarists tell you that the greatest guitarist they ever saw was prince like you forget this guy could shred. Yeah. I mean, it was, I remember the first time I saw him live, it was like, I found myself thinking, Oh boy, there's Hendrix. And Oh yeah, there's, you know, um,

just all the different influences and artists that sort of got melded together to, to be Prince. It was amazing. You know? Amazing. I think it's, uh, I think it's, well, my guitar gently sleeps or something. There's some, I think that's the live version where all these, you know, these legends on stage, like Eric Clapton and everybody, and then Prince does his thing and they're all like, just, their mouths are just wide open. Like, what was that? I guess that's the proving ground isn't it

by the way i gotta say i for some reason the two songs this one and the next one you're gonna play they just belong together so at some point just for your own entertainment value play each song all the way through but with no talking in between okay i'll do that i'll do that and here here is, speaking of legends, here's your next jam. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go.

Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go.

Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go.

Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go.

Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go.

Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go.

Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. here we go. I'm a man of wealth and taste

I've been around for a long, long year Stole many a man's soul and faith I was around when Jesus Christ Had his moment of doubt and pain Made damn sure the pilot Washed his hands and sealed his face Pleased to meet you hope you guessed my name but what puzzling you is the nature of my game

yeah that opening line buddy i could you know you told me, name the most iconic opening lines. This is in my top ten for sure. Wow. Yeah, it's pretty killer, isn't it? I mean, well, the Prince one was in France, a skinny man died of a big disease with a little name, which is just poetic the way it rolls off the tongue, but it's also just so in your face.

Okay, here's what's going on. Pay attention, you know and then the stones is just pure entertainment i mean it's pure i'm putting on this is now i'm gonna be the devil just to dance around for you and you know and you know they still got it i don't know when the last time you saw the rolling stones was but two years just before COVID, I took my daughter to the Rose Bowl, which is the most horrible place to see a band. There's like you and an intimate crowd of 80,000 of your nearest and dearest friends, but they own that type of space so well that, and she knew the music and loved the Stones music. She's 25, right? But the performance, like she, I think, was blown away

just by the whole sort of clownish aspect of Mick Jagger and the craziness of the Mick and Keith relationship and the guitar players playing off one another, just all of it. And yeah, I mean, all these years later, they're rocking it. Unbelievable. I remember in 89, and I never had a ticket, but I was working the C&E, and I actually went beside the grandstand where I could hear the whole thing, and I listened to the Steel Wheels Tour.

And the talk of the time, people were joking about the Steel Wheelchair Tour. These old men, they were in their 40s or something, I don't know. But if you go back then and say okay these guys will still be doing it in like you know 2019 or whatever did you hear the pandemic song that uh mick jagger did with dave grohl by any chance uh what was it called i you know i can't you know i can i just remember i listened a couple of times i thought it wasn't bad and then i actually have completely forgotten about it. I just remember it exists. You know what?

When you say it, I'm going, I did hear something, but I probably wasn't paying that close attention. Right. Well, Dave Grohl, I've noticed he's literally everywhere. He just seems to be— He is the go-to guy, yeah. When I mentioned— When the Grammys want to have a special moment, it's like if it's with Herbie Hancock, well, who are we going to call? Dave Grohl.

Well, because I mentioned just randomly I was watching Prince do the halftime show at the Super Bowl. I just watched it on YouTube earlier today. One of the songs Prince performs is a Foo Fighters song. Like he literally, he covers Dave Grohl. Meanwhile, people are telling me I need to watch this Dave Grohl documentary that just dropped on, I think it's on Netflix or something. I have to find it. But, and then I, yeah, and then I know that this new Mick Jagger song has Dave Grohl on it. Like, he just seems to be, Dave just seems to be everywhere.

Yeah. He's got a great opening line. You know the song that opens with, I've got another confession to make? Sure. Sure. I've got another confession to make. sure uh i've got another confession to me uh it's the best right yeah yeah yeah absolutely no that's a that's a good one huh that's a good one that guy could do it i heard he was a drummer in some aberdeen band i don't know if you heard that he used the drum in some aberdeen band. What? Well, that's my Nirvana joke.

Dave Grohl played in a little Aberdeen band. Okay. Here. It was better in the practice there. Okay. So let me bring down Mick and the guys here, and let's kick out your fifth jam. I'm curious to know which version you chose.

Oh, actually, I just took it. So the nice thing about your jams is that except for except for one song I have these songs in my personal collection so I literally just inputted it to my soundboard here

from my personal collection so whatever version I have here is whatever I had in my personal collection so guess which one you don't have. Well, we're going to find out together if I got the right one. So I'll play this and then you'll tell me, Mike, you screwed up. Here we go. I'm I pulled my harpoon out of my dirty red bandana I was playing soft while Bobby sang the blues

Windshield wipers slapping time I was holding Bobby's tandem hat We sang every song that Javi knew Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose nothing i mean nothing honey if it ain't free feeling good was easy when he sang a blues you know feeling good was good enough for me yeah good enough for me and my Bobby and I. I got the wrong version, didn't I?

No, it's great. I mean, Chris Topperson, who wrote it, I mean, this is like a clinic in great songwriting for me, and I listened to that. That song, you know how some songs you just never get tired of? Well, that's one ofwriting for me and i listened to that that song i you know how some songs you just never get tired of well that's one of them for me so but there's a version i'm sure there's a version of uh janice and chris uh singing this together that you were hoping for is that right oh no i actually meant it as a neither or because i know there's a christopherson version but

i mean janice uh you know did bring the song to life pretty nicely so you can't go wrong no are you kidding me i think i don't think i'm not sure there's a better uh woman vocalist in rock than janice joplin like of all time possibly well she she was unique that's for sure there was only one and i guess, that's for sure. There was only one. And I guess if that's partially the mark of a great singer is that their voice is unmistakable. I mean, it's like from the opening lines of Think. I mean, it's like Aretha Franklin just makes her statement, you know? Right.

So remind me, as if I need a reminder, but what is the opening line of Me and Bobby McGee? Busted flat in Baton Rouge, waiting for a train, feeling nearly faded as my jeans. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Man, shout out to Chris Christopherson because he also wrote Sunday Morning Coming Down, right? That's a... Sure did. Wow. Helped me make it through the night. Boy, he wrote some great songs. Silver Tongue Devil and I.

Wow. He's a cool cat, too, because I remember when I think Sinead O'Connor was on stage at some tribute, and she was getting booed because she ripped up the picture of the Pope on Saturday Night Live. You remember this?

I do remember that. And I remember Chris Christopherson just walks on stage and wraps his arms around her and just gives her this big old hug. And I just remember thinking that was a very kind gesture from Chris. Yeah. Well, it does seem very much in character with the guy that I imagine him to be. Right. So you've never met Chris Christopherson? Imagine him to be. Right.

So you've never met Chris Christopherson? No, I've seen him play live. I've stood next to him at a show. That's as close as I got. What show was it? Do you remember? Yeah, it was in a bar. It was Rodney Crowell.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Another fantastic songwriter. My first father-in-law was a huge fan. Are you kidding me? Yeah, wow. Of Rodney? Yes, yes.

What a truly great songwriter he is, too. I'll take this moment to shout out Bill King because just yesterday I had a great phone call with Bill. And Bill, I don't know if you're familiar with Bill. Yeah, of course. He played keyboards for Janis Joplin at some part of her career, I guess near the end there, which came way too soon, of course.

Bill's done everything. I think if you just add it to Bill's credits, you're pretty safe. That guy's amazing. He's had great experiences. He writes beautifully about those experiences and he's also a monster player. You said it. And one fun fact that you might not know, or you might know, is that he's also a monster player i mean yeah you said it and one fun fact that you might not know or that you might know is that he's a hell of a basketball player too

like apparently he i did not know that i did not know that's a that's absolutely unaware of that mike apparently on cnn i know they're rolled over the place but on cnn right now they're airing some late night uh uh documentary series about like the history of late night television in the states so so i at some point i have to find out where that is and check that out okay here we are five more jams to go one two three four five yes and uh very quick shout outs to the partners that make all this possible. Great Lakes Beer, tremendous partner for years. Like I said off the top, you can order online for free delivery in the GTA. Support the sponsors.

It's delicious, and it's local, and it's family-owned and run. So Great Lakes Brewery, shout-out to them. Same with Palma Pasta, family-run local business. They just make great authentic Italian food. Palmapasta.com. They have locations in Mississauga and Oakville. If you want, you're happy in LA. But if you were looking at moving back to Toronto,

you know, all the kids are moving to Mimico. So Mimico Mike is taking care of everybody. So you shout out, you reach out to Mimico Mike, say, hey, Toronto Mike sent me. And he'll tell you what's up in Mimico. He's in the know in Mimico. So shout out to Mimico. And even in LA, you can go to stickeru.com. That's the nice thing about e-commerce. It's global. That's where you get your stickers and your decals and your temporary tattoos and your

badges and everything. So stickeru.com, much love to them. And of course, Ridley Funeral Home, ticker you.com. Much love to them. And of course, Ridley Funeral Home, pay tribute without paying a fortune. They've been pillars of this community since 1921 and great supporters of the Real Talk.

So shout out to Brad Jones at Ridley Funeral Home. You ready for your sixth jam? Oh yeah. I was born by the river in a little tent oh and just like the river I've been running Ever since

It's been a long, a long time coming But I know a change gonna come Oh, yes it will It's been too hard living But I'm afraid to die Cause I don't know what's up there Beyond the sky. It's been a long, a long time coming.

But I know a change gonna come. Oh, yes it will. Wow. Yeah. I don't know about you, but I, in any situation, have an emotional reaction to that song. It's like it's, I kind of, I fight back tears when I hear that opening line, which is why it's so powerful to me. I mean, obviously, sadly, it has new resonance in this time of the search for racial justice. this time of the search for racial justice.

I think there are gonna be a whole lot, new generation, let's say, of protest songs being written, but this one is one of the greats. And you know, the thing about protest songs is there's usually a fairly sort of strident quality to them. You know, there's a pointed opening line, if you like, where it's like, come gather around people wherever you roam and admit that the waters around you have grown. You know, Bob Dylan. But this, it's a protest song, but it's a totally personal tale.

I was born by the river in a little tent. And just like the river, I've been running ever since. I mean, it kills me this song yeah and sam cook one of the last things he recorded too sadly was this released posthumously there were two versions i think and i'm my history is a little hazy here mike but i know there was a version that came out sort of right away but then there was one that came out i think after he died as well. Because Sam Cooke for the younger

people are sort of discovering Sam Cooke now because of the I guess One Night in Miami which is a popular film which sort of, I guess it's Jim Brown, Muhammad Ali, Malcolm X, and Sam Cooke sort of.

I have not seen that film. Have you seen it? Yeah, it's very good. I really, Regina King directed this. And I mean, I have since then did some homework and discovered that as these biopics tend to do, they play, they kind of massage some facts and some, you know, change things up.

So it's definitely, you can't take it as gospel. This is not a documentary, but the spirit of it is intact. And it is a, I enjoyed it thoroughly. And Sam Cooke, you kind of, not quite, like I said, there's accuracy issues you'll discover if you watch this thing, but it kind of shows you Sam Cooke

and gives you some insight into just how big a deal Sam Cooke was at that time. Oh, he was a star. He was a huge, huge, hugely popular artist and just creatively too. He, you could tell that he'd gone through, I mean, a real metamorphosis as an artist. I mean, his early work was very playful, you you know don't know much about history right that kind of stuff yes and and another Saturday night well I ain't got nobody right

like those kind of songs you know very playful bouncy sort of pop but then along comes change is gonna come and it just completely alters your understanding of this artist absolutely or even uh uh chain gang uh that's the same yeah like you're right uh this is an artist who and then you you would let your left of that horrible like you know similar similar to joni uh to janice joplin but like what have we what what would have been next like you'll never know what was going to be next for this guy this this this super talent because he again gone far too soon so yeah we played a couple of those today i mean even prince who died in his 50s but you you there's no question

that the guy had a lot left in the tank creatively no question uh prince gone too soon. Janis Joplin way too soon and Sam Cooke way too soon. So absolutely. All right. Some CanCon coming up. Not that we have not that I'm, you know, CRTC has no play here. We played Leonard so, you know, come on. That's true.

That is absolutely true. And we played something by this guy Christopher Ward too. So a few CanCon jams. Here we go. Here's another CanCon jam. CanCon jam. They paved paradise, put up a parking lot With a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swinging hot spot Don't it always seem to go

That you don't know what you've got till it's gone They paved paradise, put up a parking lot Ooh, bop, bop, bop, bop Ooh, bop, bop, bop, bop Ooh, bop, bop, bop, bop Hit the ball of trees Put them in a museum Mm-hmm. And again, this is one of those songs

that is probably known to a young audience for a couple of different reasons. I suppose the Janet Jackson song, which was kind of an homage to this one. I like that you're calling that a young audience. Cause I feel like that's my people. Like that's like generation X. I feel like, well, and then there's that counting crows abomination. Oh yeah. That's right.

Or I suppose it's too late for that to go unmentioned. Yeah. Adam Duritz. That's right. One of those unnecessary covers you wish didn't, didn't happen, but. The song again, it's the opening line. It's just, she just throws it right at you. You know, Joni's work is always poetic. And there's a playful quality. You think about songs like Raised on Robbery, you know,

and You Turn Me On on the radio. But just, this one is just right in your face. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot. Right on the nose. And Joni's thankfully still with us. I hope she's doing well. Did you ever get to meet Joni Mitchell? I met her in an airport.

We were at the machine where you, what do you call the, I'm blanking, I lost my words, Mike. The x-ray machine? Yeah, that's security, we'll call that. I don't know. You go through security. We were both going through at the same time and I had a little portable guitar with me, a little mini Taylor guitar. And she said, what's that? And I looked around, it was like, there's Joni Mitchell standing right next to me. I went, it's a mini Taylor. She said, oh, I didn't know they made a small guitar. And we started this whole conversation. And it just so happened, I had a portable CD player in my bag, which I would have been listening to if I wasn't talking to Joni Mitchellitchell and her latest cd was in it yeah so i was like hey you know what's in my cd player she's like really

that's why that was my joni mitchell moment it was a good one though well that is a great moment and the fact that she initiated the contact right that's everything in that story because you know as you know well you're a famous guy by the way, just FYI, you're a Canadian, you're a famous guy, but like the fact that she initiated the convo about something, you could have been like, do you know who you are? Like that could have been your

response. Yes, exactly. And great artist. I mean, the more I read and listen to Joni, the more I appreciate her. She's right up there in the Mount Rushmore. If you could have Leonard Cohen up there, sure. And then you got to stick Neil Young up there and you got to have Joni Mitchell up there. And who else am I sticking on my Mount Rushmore? Gordon Lightfoot.

Okay, yeah. Gordon Lightfoot, who hopefully will be well enough to reopen the Massey Hall when things get back to normal and that renovation's complete. Oh, that'll be great you're gonna get me in you gotta see i'll have to call dave kines and see if he can get me into that who knows but okay maybe dave hodge actually now that i think about it i think he's on the committee over there but okay wow obscure band from liverpool you ready oh yeah Oh, yeah. slip away across the universe pools of sorrow, waves of joy are drifting through my open mind possessing and caressing me Shakuru

Devadana Nothing's gonna change my world Nothing's gonna change my world Nothing's gonna change my world Nothing's gonna change my world Ah, yes. Well, you know, John Lennon was writing increasingly sort of surrealistic lyrics around this time. around this time and eventually of course he landed on things like come together and maybe the ultimate piece of Beatles surrealism I am the walrus and you know there's strawberry fields forever but this one kind of laid down a

new template for him and even though it's surreal it has such a strong sense of atmosphere about it and I just love this song and I love his vocal on it as well definitely one of the trippier Beatles songs but that atmosphere you describe

it's totally palpable always sounds great in the headphones. Always. Yeah. It's one of the Beatles here. Quick aside on the Beatles. Beatles, they're a good band.

There's my hot take on the Beatles. Tomorrow Never Knows, okay? Tomorrow Never Knows, which I may have, I mean, I may have heard it here and there. It's not a Beatles song that gets a lot of play on Q107 or whatever, but it was in Mad Men. So there's an episode of Mad Men, and Don Draper puts on the Beatles, and he hears Tomorrow Never...

Doesn't Don go to California and get wasted in that episode? Well, I think... I can't remember if he probably did go to California and get wasted, but I think he was living in California of his new wife. I think, uh, I think, and I think it was like,

well, they were sharing this. Yeah. I stayed till the end. That's how long I stayed. But, um, it was like about the generational,

like Don was like this guy from the fifties. And then he had this younger new wife who was a product of like the sixties. And this, like he was like, it was opening his mind. But for some reason, the way that Tomorrow Never Knows hit me in that episode of Mad Men was very different than any other time it had hit me. And it sort of blew my mind. Like I know that was the intent.

I don't know what they paid for that song, but a lot more than I'm paying for this song right now. But man, like those psychedelic, trippier Beatles songs are not to be messed with. Yeah, like she said, she said, you know. It's funny, when I interviewed George Harrison, he was talking, we got off on this complete tangent, which was making me very nervous in the moment because I thought, uh-oh, I'm losing him.

But he was talking about when they started getting very experimental and he said yeah you know we got all avant-garde like avant-garde a clue right and then he said yeah we did this song where we took home little pieces of tape and threw them up in the air and glued them back together again a little song called tomorrow never Knows. Right. And he said, from the album Rubber Soul. And I was like, no, it's not. It's from Revolver. But I didn't say anything.

I just let it go. Close enough. Close enough. George Harrison wants to move it from Revolver to Rubber Soul. I'm okay with it. He has the license to do that uh did you ever when you were you know growing up where did you remind me toronto whereabouts did you grow up okay so when you were watching tbo uh magic shadows you remember the theme song can you at all have any memory of

the theme song to magic shadows no lweos anyway i always thought that song was like across the universe like to me. And then it was pointed out to me by somebody who actually pointed it out to my friend, Ed Conroy, who is better known as Retro Ontario, that it's actually modeled after the Beach Boys' Feel Flows. So if you can imagine Feel Flows, which is also a great song in the headphones, that's the model for the Magic Shadows theme song. And I digress but

hey more can con you ready yeah i'm ready okay it's a slow burn here so i feel i need to talk it up and hit the post but i'm no dj so i'll just let the music do the talking here ¶¶ ¶¶ I'm fed up with my destiny This place of no return I think I'll take another day And slowly watch it burn It doesn't really matter How the time goes by

As I still remember you and I And that beautiful goodbye Staggered through these empty streets Laughing on and on. The night had made a mess of me, your confessions kept me warm. I don't really miss you, I just need to know. Do you ever think of you and I On that beautiful goodbye

Whoever wrote this song is a genius, man. I'm proud of that one, and that one took a long time to write. My partner Dave Tyson gave me this piece of music, and it was fully defined. It was like a full track. It took a long time to write. My partner, Dave Tyson, gave me this piece of music and it was fully defined. It was like full track. All the instrumentation was in place. The melody was laid out,

so I knew exactly where the lyric had to fit. And it was so tight that it was like, the rhyme scheme was implicit in what he wrote. And I thought, and it moved me so much the first time I heard it. I thought, how am I ever gonna write anything that's fantastic as this piece of music? So I struggled mightily for a number of months on this one. And finally managed to get something that he was happy with and that I was happy with. And we were playing songs for Amanda Marshall because she was in LA

gathering songs for her first album that Dave produced and she said oh I really want to do this one and she was you know very young at the time and I think we were a little like almost cynical like well you know I don't know about that you know we saw it as being like a song for a more vintage artist like a you know Joe Cocker somebody like that and she took it home learned it came back the next day and I mean literally from the opening line of the song I was sitting side by side with her on this little bench and she's singing in this tiny home studio at Dave's place and I look over at him and I mouth the words are you recording and? And he goes, yes. And she ran it down

and there's an awful lot of that version that's in the final mix. I mean, it was just hair on end from beginning to end. The depth emotionally that this incredibly talented young artist brought to that song was mind-blowing for me. Wow. You know, this album was such a monster. Like, this song is fantastic, but this is the album that has, like, Birmingham and Dark Horse and Let It Rain. Like, this was just a hit-laden monster album for Amanda.

Great record. And if we haven't said so, I feel like I'm not sure we've, I guess you did, but just to be clear to everybody, of course, we're listening to Amanda Marshall's Beautiful Goodbye. And as Christopher has told us,

so David Tyson and Christopher Ward co-writing credits. And man, it's good shit. And you mentioned, okay, so on this album though I see also Mark Jordan co-wrote a couple of jams on this Amanda Marshall album as well speaking of the devil

yeah he wrote Fall From Grace I think it was called yeah he got well it's a song called Promises Promises yeah yeah Fall From Grace like you said yes wow do you so Amanda, a major talent, of course. I always wonder how she's doing. Do we have any idea what she's been up to?

No, I have not been in touch with Amanda for quite a long time. I loved working with her. I think she's just so gifted. I loved working with her. I think she's just so gifted. And if she decides to come up with something else, I'll be there on day one to listen to it. Wow, it's hard to believe that that album goes back to 95 now.

That's kind of amazing when I think of that, too. Yeah. Okay, Beautiful Goodbye was your penultimate jam. Thank you for that. I picked it partly because of the fact that I'm proud of the song and her performance, but I also am pleased with the opening line, which is that very cynical kind of, I'm fed up with my destiny, this place of no return. I tried to imagine Philip Marlowe,

the noir detective sitting at his typewriter you know with the the louvered blinds behind him and the light flashing on and off and wow fed up with my destiny this place of no return kid what i mean no i totally i can totally see that and uh and again we opened this episode uh we opened this episode by playing your version of Black Velvet, which is on your new album. Remind us the name and when we can get it. And even throw in, I'm always curious, how would an artist want you to get it? If you had a preferred way for us to get this album?

Well, I think people have their means of acquiring music already chosen. So just stick with what you know. Stream away. There will be vinyl, and you can go on my website, ChristopherWarr.ca, to find out about that. And it's coming out May the 28th. It's called Same River Twice. And I had a blast making it, and I think there's some good songs on there.

And here's your final jam. Mississippi in the middle of a dry spell Jimmy Rogers on the victro up high Mama's dancing with baby on her shoulder The sun is setting like molasses in the sky the boy at center knew what happened everything

always wanting more healing your longing for black velvet and that little boy's smile black velvet with that slow southern sound Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And another great opening line.

Thank you. We had a whole show of openers. Say it again. Say the opening line to Black Velvet for me. Mississippi in the middle of a dry spell. Wow. Okay. I promised you I held on to a question because Massimo wanted me to ask you, and I know this story, I suppose, of course,

but at this time when you're writing the song, you and Alana Miles are a couple, is that right? We are, yes. Okay. Just for those who haven't heard the initial deep dive with Christopher Ward, just had some fun perspective there. Now,

Massimo, uh, mass Massimo F wants me to ask you, did you keep in touch with Alana miles? Uh, cause he also would like to know, like, do we know what she's up to these days?

Um, I absolutely have kept in touch with Alana. We are good friends and she is working on something. I don't know that she would want me to reveal it yet, but she does have something up her sleeve as she always does. So yeah, we formed a great friendship. I mean,

we were a couple and we broke up while we were making the first album, just to keep things interesting. Right. You know? But I think what happened is we actually retained the best part of our relationship, which was the musical partnership and our friendship. Well, yeah, which is amazing that you could do that,

and that's everything there. And at least every time you hear this song, I i don't know maybe you're shopping in a supermarket or something and there it is again uh which reminds me what i was i was gonna ask you like every time one of these shows like i american idol or whatever because it seems like black velvet is a go-to song for these singing competition shows i feel i hear it a lot uh every time that happens, there's a check in the mail for you? Well, there should be.

Yeah, it's one of those songs that female artists in particular just love to show off with. It's a show-off song for a singer, which is why my version is so laid back. Right. Like you said, know your limits and sing within it. But yeah, I just, and I don't even watch a lot of these shows, but it just seems like whenever I pop onto one and watch it for a bit,

it feels like you're going to, at some point, you will probably hear Black Velvet performed by a female singer, right? As it should be. Good stuff, buddy. This was amazing. Off the top of my head, I just want you to know your version of fromage

is the fromage that Mark Weisblot and I try to model. We try to bring it back, the fromage. So at the end of 2020, we did an episode of My Backyard from 10 feet away. We sort of discussed

the fromage of 2020 and we channel our inner christopher ward so none of the ed the sock fromage uh much love to ed the sock of course but the christopher ward fromage is the model by which we base it it's the classic is it listen i know that you did that a lot longer than you worked with the at uh 99 queen east and then 299 queen west but uh man you doing the fromage that was everything to me so thank you so much well we had a little bit of fun doing it as you can imagine man we're gonna do this again sometime i'm hoping when the pandemic's over and you do

find yourself in toronto uh we can hook up again and I'll get you your Great Lakes beer. Yes, please. Thank you, Mike. No, thank you for this. That's a lot of fun. And again, people should pick up Same River Twice. And you can go to ChristopherWard.ca. You don't need a watch, okay?

So don't go to the other one. ChristopherWard.ca to find out. It's available May 28th, which is coming soon. And that brings us to the end of our 840-second show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at TorontoMike. Chris, you're at WardWorks1? Yes.

WardWorks1. That's a numeric one, by the way. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta's at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH.

And Mimico Mike, he's actually not on Twitter. He's on Instagram as at Majeski Group Homes. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable

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