Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Colin D'Mello: Toronto Mike'd #258

Episode Date: August 17, 2017

Mike chats with Colin about growing up in Kuwait, his years at 680 News and CTV.

Welcome to episode 258 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a local independent brewery producing fresh craft beer. And propertyinthesix.com, Toronto real estate done right. I'm Mike from torontomic.com and joining me is award-winning journalist and weekend anchor for CTV News at 6, Colin DeMello. Hello.

Award-winning journalist. Well, yes, that's something that's applied generally to many reporters who have either won awards or their stations have won awards or you've been part of award-winning coverage and that includes myself. in 1984 am i getting the right year maybe 84 85 my uh four by 100 meter uh relay track team won the regionals and then we went on and we won the metros it was called the metros back then so i could i also am an award-winning right award-winning podcast

and incidentally that if it was 1984 it would have been one year before I was actually born. I was going to say, you're a young man. You don't dye your hair. That's the real deal? No, yes. Have you discovered any white hairs yet? Yeah, there are a couple of white hairs that are kind of, every time I go to get my hair cut,

we mark the number of white hairs that are in there. And I'm proud to say that they're in there, and I'd like to just kind of keep them. Where are they? Because I can't see them. Oh, they hairs that are in there. And I'm proud to say that they're in there. And I'd like to just kind of keep them. I don't think... Where are they? Because I can't see them. Oh, they're somewhere hidden in there. My hair is pretty short right now.

So you can't really see them in there. Okay. So I'm doing the math on your age. Okay. So when I was your age, I had some white hairs. I had a lot of white hairs, actually. But the main thing is, and I'm looking at you, you got a thick head of hair. So who cares what

the color is although you're on tv i guess you do care well you know it's it's one of those things about being on television right it makes you incredibly vain and so you you end up caring about things that you never thought you would before and and you know a lot of comments from people which there are a few because people stop at some point and i'm going to talk about this in a minute but at some point people stop being shy going to talk about this in a minute, but at some point, people stop being shy. Like, people will just tell you, I get weird tweets about like,

I'm going to randomly pick somebody, let's say, Hazel May and Mike Wilner. Yeah. I got a tweet the other day, a guy, and they're tagged on it, so they're seeing this

in their Twitter stream, and things like, they're dumb, the way they had to explain the waivers, because the waivers are kind of tricky at this time of year.

And I mean, I've been a fan my whole life, and I like a little explainer now and then that, you know, you can revoke, you can pull them back from the waivers. I think it's fair to update the fans how the waivers work. But this guy's like, they're dumb. And I'm like, dude, they're people. They're human beings. It's not like they're so rich that they could... You don't have to tell them they're dumb because they're explaining the waiver rules.

I quite often find that about Twitter especially, which is why I used to be really active on social media, especially Twitter, and I've kind of really taken a step back because of a lot of that. It's such a minefield that you never really know when you're going to be stepping on a landmine and saying something.

But people will comment on how you look, what you say, how you talk. I used to have a soul patch and one woman actually kept commenting about the soul patch, about how much she hated it. And it was something so weird because I'm thinking,

lady, are you actually listening to what I'm saying as opposed to focusing on this little patch of hair that I don't think about all too much? See, I think when you're in people's living rooms on a regular basis, they forget that you're... They think that you owe them something or whatever. You're their personal... Or that you're part of a family. But I will say, in my expert opinion, I've been blogging for a long time people have never been ruder like i just think that people are just way too blunt and rude and it's like it's one thing to say hey you've uh your explanation of the waiver is a little too 101 i don't think it needs to be so

whatever that's a fair criticism but to call people like Wilder and Hazel May are dumb, like, come on. Yeah. And that happens. That happens all the time, even with many of us. If we say something that people disagree with. Yesterday, I was doing a story about real estate. And somebody tweeted at me saying, you know, hey, we complain when the market's up. And hey, we complain when the market's down.

We're always complaining. And I just want to respond and say, hey, buddy, my job is just to kind of tell you what's going on as it happens. But yeah, you're right. I mean, people seem to be more mean on Twitter and social media these days. So what's the latest? Is the real estate market up or down? Well, currently it's down. So we were doing a story yesterday. The Business News Network had obtained the mid-month numbers from the Toronto Real Estate Board. They typically release it a couple of days into the next month, kind of taking a look at the snapshot of the previous month. And so they took a look at the numbers, particularly

the home sales numbers, and they're down about 20% from April. It was nuts in April. That's like units sold. That's not price. No, no, that's price price is down 20 yeah so like sorry in april it was about it was about 920 000 and now the average selling price for a home in the gta is about 720 000 so it's kind of gone down wow four months see all this uh interference i would say that's a penalty i, interference penalty. I ask because Brian Gerstein is with propertyinthesix.com and he's looking to have conversations with people who are, maybe you have a question about the market.

We heard it's up and it's down and it's flat and it's whatever. But Brian's looking to have a conversation. In fact, let's hear it from Brian since we're talking real estate. In his own words, Brian Gerstein, take it away. I am Brian Gerstein, sales representative with PSR Brokerage, with offices in the Annex and in King West. I will be happy to meet you to just have a conversation about real estate. And in hand, I will have a six pack of Octopus Wants to Fight, as well as my unbelievably handy pint glass.

Happy to meet you. Give me a call 416-873-0292. And don't forget, you can always check me out at propertyinthesix.com. So Colin, Brian mentioned the pint glass. Well, I'm holding it in my hand right now. How in the moment, how current of him to actually have a name called property in the six with the numerical six IX. And my first thing to Brian was, you know, people, there's three ways to spell that, right? You could go property in the numeric six, property in the SIX and property in the six

IX. So all three of them go to his website. Just in case. Yeah. We covered all the bases. Oh, that's really smart. And okay. you don't have to kiss the sponsor's ass, but that you have to admit, that is like a great pint glass, right? It is a pretty good pint glass. I love having pint glasses at home. We often break them. We often break, not on purpose.

That's not like a ceremonial thing, right? We're just a very clumsy family. I'm a very clumsy person, so I end up breaking a lot of things. So I hope this one will stay intact. Every time you break one, you just have to book another appearance on this podcast. I'll give you another one. Oh, that'd be great.

Courtesy of Brian Gerstein. So yeah, enjoy that. And yeah, propertyinthesix.com. And everybody, Brian said it, but really have a meeting, I don't know, a coffee with Brian or meet up with him. He'll come to you and you're getting a six pack out of it. You're getting a pint glass, but you're getting knowledge from Brian. And Brian, unlike some other real estate agents, I can tell you this guy is a solid citizen and an honorable guy and he'll do you well. And if he doesn't, you let me know. I'll take care of it. So contact Brian. Colin, you're coming at a very exciting time. Because next week, this very podcast turns five years old. Oh, five years. Congratulations.

I'll pass it along. Did you say 257? This is episode 258. 258. That's incredible. Is it? I think it is, but I don't know anymore because the five years is flowing by. You know what I mean? Looking back, if somebody said, hey, I've been podcasting for five years, I would say, that's a long time in the podcast world. That's a long time.

Well, and it's a difficult world to be in because it's almost like one way, right? Unidirectional. You're putting everything out there, not really being able to, I don't know how much you can engage with your audience. But it's a difficult one to be in because you're in your own space here. So good for you for keeping up with it because I would imagine, did it get difficult like after year one or after year two? It's funny. This is a whole episode unto itself, but the evolution, like how it started and then how it found its own voice. And I speak about it like it's an entity unto itself. So the, the podcast,

like at the beginning was like me and a friend, Rosie, and we would like shoot the shit part in my French about the latest current events and different things. And when they talk about like our favorite concerts and whatever, it was like a pop culture current events show. And then she had to leave for a gig in Markham. And then I had to like make a decision on what was this podcast going to be. And then I realized what I wanted to do

was have interesting people like yourself into my basement to have like a long form deep dive convo, like as opposed to these two minutes sound, two minutes if you're lucky, but these short sound bites you get in these short little edited edited interviews like let's do a long form you know real talk yeah that's really interesting i think to people who kind of watch us or listen to us and even us in the industry because you know we often idolize the other people who we're watching but we we don't get to know too much about them i was listening to your podcast, actually, with Kevin Frankish. Yes. You know what? I really enjoyed the parts where he was talking about how him and his son interact and the conversations they had about, you know, going out and partying and whatnot. I was like, huh, that's really interesting,

because it's another layer of a person who you'd never get to experience. I was really not surprised, maybe a little bit surprised at how Kevin was so like upfront and honest and like just, I enjoyed it far more than I thought I would enjoy it. Yeah. And you're right. And he's, I remember that episode because he was kind of convincing me that, so I have a 15 and a half year old who I have to be honest, maybe I'm naive in my, I've talked to him a lot.

I don't think he's ever smoked weed. I don't think he's ever had more than like a sip of his dad or his grandpa's beer. Okay. So this is my, I honestly, and I, he goes, hangs out with his friends at sleepovers and I chat with him. Like I believe he would tell me I, maybe I'm naive, but you can tell, I believe what I'm saying. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Kevin's got me convinced. There's no way there's not like a joint being passed around at these parties or beer coming out. But I mean, I'm still not even... Well, I think the term he used was passing the duchy, which I don't really think is quite in vogue anymore.

Oh, yeah. What was that band called? Musical Youth? Yes, yes. Musical Youth. If I was on the ball, I'd play it now. And I wanted to play it then, too. I'm having like a deja vu moment here.

But yeah. So when you do the podcast that kind of reflects in the five years, is it just going to be you talking or is it going to be somebody interviewing you? Because wouldn't that be the ultimate turn the table? I don't have plans

because when the real anniversary hits, which I think is August 22nd, I'm going to be camping under the stars with the aforementioned 15-year-old. Oh, that's nice. So this is the last episode before the birthday. So I wanted to acknowledge five years, and if you're listening now,

thanks for being part of the journey. There's some, like, you're an interesting guest. I can't wait to dive in with you, but I got people like Stephen Brunt, who I've been trying to get for a long time. He's coming on in September. Jay and Dan are coming over soon. That'll be cool.

On that note, a lot of stuff to update the audience on before we jump in, but you've never been here before. So this swing arm here that I'm pointing to, the one in the middle, that's brand new.

I added a third, what do they call, what do you call these things? Swing arms? Boom? I wouldn't really know. All I know is that the microphone's attached. This is where I talk.

Because you're not on the radio, right? You're like a TV guy. Well, I used to be. Okay. We'll call them swing arms because people might know what that means. So the third one I bought this week, thanks to patrons.

So people who go to Toronto... What is it? Patreon.com slash Toronto Mike. But in particular, I need to talk about Doug Mills who made a very generous contribution above and beyond. Doug Mills, I would erect a statue in your honour.

Maybe I'll name this boom mic the Doug Boom. So thank you, Doug, for your generous contribution. I went out and bought a third one because I want to make sure I have I'm set up for duos like when Jay and Dan come on together for example you know they're just going to take over your show right

I'm all for it I wouldn't mind I'll bring popcorn I'll just sit down here and watch the show I loved watching them during the well Jay Onright anyway during the Vancouver Olympics because he was surrounded by all of

these very serious people and he he was able to control it and throw so much humor into it and they didn't really know what to do because that's not their personalities or their on-air persona loved it well you know how when you first got here and i told you watch your head and you made a joke like oh you're not tall enough to worry about it but you really would have hit your head and you made a joke like, oh, you're not tall enough to worry about it, but you really would have hit your head here. Jay's like 6'4". He's a very tall guy. So I'm going to have to get him to walk on his knees when Jay gets here. But I'll worry about that when he comes in early September,

I believe. He'll be coming by. I have a better name for this, our Mike, by the way, because it was Doug, you said, who? Yeah, Doug Mills. Doug Mills. You're going to call it the boom goes the Doug-o-mic.

Oh, boom goes the Doug-o-mic. That's great. This is why you're in the creative business. Can you be creative as a news anchor? Do you got to just read that script? No, I actually write a lot of stuff on the weekends. I write a lot of my scripts. And sometimes, you know,

you do get to be creative with what you write. It just, it has to be appropriate, obviously. Oh, because, you know, I'm going to get into this later, so maybe I won't now. But I actually, I've never spent much time with CTV News. We'll talk about this later

and how this became. But I have seen you on a have seen you recently on the weekends. And I'm like, hey, that's my buddy from Twitter. He's on TV too. I'm like, this happened with Siobhan Morris from 1010. I'm like, oh, my buddy on Twitter is also a reporter at the News Talk 1010. I got to get her on here. So we'll get into this when we get there.

But don't worry. It'll be fine. A few more notes here. You're sitting on a brand new chair. The first episodes had folding chairs I got from, my wife got from Costco. And I did a video once where I showed like how the setup was and I had people like, you know, your guests need better chairs. So there's an agency in Liberty Village and they're called Blue Sky Agency and they generously donated two chairs. How does it feel, the chair you're sitting in? It's very comfortable, very firm. I feel very supported. See, I mean, amazing. They were dropped off and everything.

And they have controls on the bottom to adjust them, which it's a little intimidating. I think I need lessons. I did manage to raise it, but you can do everything with these ergonomic chairs. You just need to have a PhD, I think.

And these ones look like they have a chrome finish on the back, which is kind of neat. You have a better chair than I do now. So very good. I was at my three-year-old's soccer game last night and it's not really soccer. They sort of do drills and they chase a ball on the grass. It's very disorganized, but they wear blue jerseys. They have these blue jerseys. Each of them has a unique number. One of the kids, I guess their shirt was dirty, so they had a different blue shirt on. And this is what the shirt reads, okay?

On the front, it says, My mom is the shit. Okay, all right? What? Yeah. So I want to take a picture. I don't want to shame anybody or whatever. So I see this, and I'm like,

first, I do a double take. Like, am I reading that wrong? Like, you know, those F-C-U-K stuff? Yes. Yeah, yeah, right? And I'm like, am I right? And I read again. Yeah, 100%.

It's very clearly big white letters on the front of the blue shirt. And this three-year-old is playing soccer with like dozens of other three-year-olds. It says, my mom is the shit. So I'm actually not a prude. I don't mind. But I'm just wondering, like, when did that become okay? Like, is that okay? Was it an acronym?

No, it just was like, that was just the expression that was on the three-year-old shirt my mom is the shit so i was telling my wife like i kind of it's funny i guess like i don't have a i'm not a guy who's big no s words near my kids or whatever but uh i don't have the balls i would never put my kid in that shirt because they're playing with a bunch of other three-year-olds and those parents might be offended or whatever like i just wonder is this okay now i i wouldn't necessarily do i mean there are a lot of those shirts that you can get at like you know indigo or other stores like that where they have these funny little slogans on them like started from the bottom now i'm here that's okay on a kid but i don't think that that's necessarily the most appropriate thing to put in

a three-year-old. And the thing about three-year-olds is none of them can read, okay? You know what I mean? But their parents can. Yeah, their parents can read. And there are some older siblings and stuff. I just thought that was a ballsy move to put your kid for the soccer game,

to put your kid in the, my mom is the shit. But it also raises a lot of questions. Is his mom actually the shit? The word the is very important in that sentence, by the way. It turns out being the shit is a good thing, but being shit is a bad thing. You got to have the word the. That's the distinction. going on in the United States and in Virginia. Like, what year is this? Like, I think my calendar broke because I'm watching like white supremacist rallies on television with like torches and stuff. But like back in the day when you see the historical footage, like they would cover their

faces like they had some shame and they would wear hoods like so their colleagues won't know it was them or whatever. But now like we're seeing their faces and they seem kind of proud. Like, what the hell? Can you explain this to me, newsman? Ah, nobody can explain it, really. You know, when I try to explain it to friends like this, I try to put it in this context or terms. I say, you know, picture the country that you came from, right? So I came from India, let's say. That's where my family's from. And I say, okay, so picture 30 years ago, 50 years ago, it was all Indian people. Maybe India is a bad example because there was a lot of culture and religion involved. However, but let's just say,

you know, it's that country. And all of a sudden, you looked around and everyone looked like you, talked like you, thought like you, voted like you. And then slowly, immigration started to open the doors to other cultures coming in, which is a great thing to have all those cultures coming in. And then you see yourself starting to fade into the background. I think that's the mentality that they hold. They think, hey, once I was the majority, and now I'm the minority, and they think, okay, well, what if at some point I become extinct? Which is really, I mean, it's a ludicrous thought, because, you know, you're not the minority, you are the baseline, right? And everything revolves around the way, I mean, everything that is in culture, in law, and in everything is set around how you think. And now the changes are being made to allow for

other people to be part of your society. And so that's what they're railing against. That's what they're trying to take that country back to. But unfortunately, what they're trying to take the country back to is a very hateful time, a time in which it was an us versus you, and other cultures were really sidelined and marginalized. Well, the premise is that their culture is superior, right? This is the word supremacist, right?

Well, I think they want to take their culture back. See, the funny thing is that they see white as a nationality as opposed to just a race. They see it as not just a race or an ethnicity. They see it as a nationality. And that's, and you know, it's funny because a lot of people think that Canadians are immune to it,

but we're not. You just talked about, I mean, I saw a lot of tweets talking about the rebel. Right? The rebel, I've learned a lot about the rebel since Alex Pearson was on the show. I actually, and most of what I, and I missed you, Rebel since Alex Pearson was on the show. I actually, and most of what I,

and this is true, okay, at 1236 is Mark Weisblatt who comes on every quarter. He's coming on in September. I know, everything I know about The Rebel I know from him

because it's not in my world. Like, nobody I know links to it. Nobody on Facebook that I'm friends with like shares it. Like, I don't see The Rebel.

I know what it is. It's like, it came out of the, I guess when Sun News Network went down, out of the ashes uh ezra levant and the guy just quit right and he just quit this last week right and then i understand and i've heard a little bit about like faith goldie and some there's some rhetoric there that i'm uncomfortable with uh that seems to uh be aligning somehow with the alt-right, which is these guys with the torches.

And I don't know. You can explain it better. But I kind of know. The rebel, I have an idea what the rebel is. And it's so far to the right that it just wouldn't be something on my read list. Well, you know what? I don't even think the rebel would know what the rebel is.

And that's not to knock them. It's just I think they started out of the, as you said, the ashes of Sun News. And it was a great thing to have that kind of conservative voice. And, you know, I'll say this. I've actually, in some instances, defended the rebel because we were at a, and not long after Donald Trump's inauguration, there was a big rally being held at University in Dundas right across from the U.S. consulate. in Dundas, right across from the U.S. consulate. And Lauren Southern, who was then with the rebel, came down. And what she wanted to do was challenge the protesters, right? Challenge them on what they thought, what they felt, what they believed. And the protesters started shouting her down and saying,

no, you don't belong here. No, no, no. Get out. We don't want the rebel. Using a lot of expletives. And it was really confrontational when it didn't really need to be. And I stepped in and I said, hey, listen, if this is about free speech, if this is about free expression, then she has a right to be here. Because if you say no, we don't want you here, then you can apply that same logic to me and say, no, you don't want me here. But since that point, I mean, you know, some of the things you see really seem to be at odds with what they were really about when they first started, which was a voice for conservative Canadians, right?

I mean, you know, they don't really seem to be challenging a lot of liberal or even conservative thinking. They really seem to be railing against Islam, railing against Judaism, which is really weird, considering Ezra the Man is the co-founder. And it's become this weird, hateful little... Well, it sounds like when Brian wrote that message, he wrote something on Facebook

that somebody screencapped and tweeted, and I read it. And pretty much, I think that's what he was suggesting as to why he was leaving. And this is fresh news, right? He left, and then a couple of contributors left. And so I don't know what, I know they, I just read today,

speaking of at 1236, he mentioned that via Twitter that there was some rebel cruise that was planned and then the cruise liner kicked them out or canceled it. Like they wouldn't take their money or something like that. Well, and you know, the unfortunate part is things like that, I think, only further embolden people who have those extremist views. views, not to say that people on The Rebel have extremist views, but just that it further makes them feel marginalized when, you know, all these companies or whatnot say, I don't want to have anything to do with you. Well, I mean, you know, ultimately they are Canadians too.

You don't have to like what they say. And so long as it's not hateful, you can kind of, I don't know. But there's something here, and again again i only know just enough to be dangerous but uh another tweet i saw from a contributor to the rebel it was something about 2 000 people had died uh syrians i think some refugees trying to cross over to another country uh turkey maybe i can't i can't remember exactly but in some the reply from this the rebel contributor was something like now we need 2 000 more like they were like it was they were uh it was just and then you read something like that and it's now you've gone beyond there's no this is now a hate a racist hate i believe that would trump uh or at

least islamophobic uh that would trump the freedom of speech argument that you made very well yeah no and and that's and that's right. I mean, it really seems to have, it really seems to be a lightning rod for people who have these extreme views about, you know, like these Islamophobic, xenophobic, I mean, you know, even anti-Semitic views. It really seems to be a lightning rod.

And it's not just the rebel. It's, you know, places like the Daily Stormer in the US, Breitbart and all of those. I mean, they really seem to welcome these thoughts while also saying, no, that's not what we stand for. But they quietly accept those

views in their camp. You mentioned emboldened, I think was your word. So, as I see it, the President of the United States of America, through his rhetoric, seems to be empowering, almost like what we're enabling, these white supremacist movements.

It's maybe part of the reason they've lost some shame. I think people, they always existed, but they would hide maybe because society wouldn't accept that. But now it seems that the president seems to be fostering it. And I think it's... Well, he's certainly not doing anything

to throw some cold water on it. Wouldn't it be the easiest thing in the world, regardless of situation? It's very easy, I would think, to denounce a white supremacist movement, Nazis, if you will. You know what I mean? That should be really easy, like a slam dunk. And then I keep wondering, in this same situation,

what would Obama do? And then I get all sad that we have this current state of the world, and then I get all depressed. Well, here's the thing that I think really worries me or troubles me. I tend to try to watch a lot of the American all-news stations, MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News, because you have to be able to listen to what they're saying on another side, on both sides, in order to properly inform yourself. And I think it was yesterday in Fox

and Friends, and they had the chairman of the Republican National Committee. And they were asking her about the upcoming Senate races. And they asked her about what type of candidates they wanted. They said, do you want the, you know, the regular candidate or do you want a non-traditional candidate like Donald Trump? And she said, yeah, we're trying to court as many non-traditional candidates as we can. And so that leads me to believe that, you know, the party itself, the president himself, I mean, you know, it's not like they're really condemning all of it.

That's why I go back to that thought that, you know, they say one thing, but it's your actions that really speak volumes, right? I mean, if you welcome people into your camp who are going to espouse certain views, well, then you are essentially giving them the rubber, the seal of approval, the presidential seal of approval. I see it that way. And I got to say, though, it's unsettling, like, because we had this North Korea situation with the Trump tweets and the nuke talk. And then now very quickly we have the situation in Virginia, in Charlottesville. And from up here, it's rather unsettling to kind of take this in all day long.

Yeah. And you know what? I saw a tweet today that said that the president is only 13 days into his 17-day vacation. Oh my goodness gracious. If this is relaxed Donald Trump, can you imagine? My goodness. How's your sleep? You sleep well? I sleep pretty well.

We have a 16-month-old at home, so she wakes up every morning. Do you know I have a 16-month-old? Oh, do you really? I do, honestly. So we have something in common. Is it a boy or a girl? Girl.

Me too. Oh. Since you're kind of close, we could have play dates. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I have a 16-month-old. Yeah, we sleep relatively well, except for at 6 o'clock in the morning

when she has a habit of waking up and then just screams. Oh, yeah. It's very charming. I know that. I know that feeling. What would help your sleep is a Casper mattress. Casper mattress is an obsessively engineered mattress at a shockingly fair price.

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You have your marching orders. Casper dot com slash Toronto Mike. Use the promo code Toronto Mike and save $50 on your Casper mattress. And while I'm talking about gifts for people and promos, and I'd like to mention the beer because we talked about Brian's pint glass. But you need something to put inside the pint glass. Brian, in that speech that he delivers, he talks about the octopus wants to fight.

And I believe the second one on your left there, I believe that I've got you. Oh, it is octopus wants to fight. So you've got a six pack, not a five pack. Like I was doing, I thought that I've got you. Oh, it is Octopus Wants to Fight. So you got a six pack, not a five pack. Like I was doing, I thought for a while I thought like give them five so they can put the pint glass in the sixth spot, but people didn't like that. So I always had to give them

a six before they left. You can't shortchange Canadians on their beer. No five packs allowed. So you're definitely getting a six pack. And like I said, when you break your pint glass because you're a clumsy guy, you come back, you get more beer, you get another pint glass. So that's courtesy of Great Lakes.

And I won't reveal where you live, but you live very close to Great Lakes Brewery. Yeah, you know what? Actually, I considered biking down to you in honor of the fact that you bike almost every day, I think. And that distance, you don't have to pedal because it's all downhill towards the lake. You can just ride, but then you have to go home. It was literally four minutes away. Which I didn't know when I invited you. I had no idea.

You never know when you talk to somebody, hey, do you want to come on? And you're like, you know, you could be in Stouffville. Sometimes I get things like that. I'm in Stouffville. I'm like, so get in your car, let's go. But for you, and it's like, you told me where you are. And I'm like, that is hilarious.

Like you're right by Great Lakes Beer. So one day you should bike to Great Lakes Beer and enjoy a cold, frosty beverage on their patio while the summer is still here. All right. You ready for your deep dive? Yes, I am. I'm going to start in the very beginning. And here, let's hear from speaking of presidents here is George HW Bush Kuwait is liberated Iraq's army is

defeated our military objectives are met Kuwait is once more in the hands of Kuwaitis in control of their own destiny. We share in their joy, a joy tempered only by our compassion for their ordeal. Tonight, the Kuwaiti flag once again flies above the capital of a free and sovereign nation. I am pleased to announce that at midnight tonight, Eastern Standard Time, exactly 100 hours since ground operations commenced and six weeks since the start of Operation Desert Storm, all United States and coalition forces will suspend offensive combat operations. It is up to Iraq whether this suspension on the part of the coalition becomes a permanent ceasefire. At every opportunity I have said to the people of Iraq that our quarrel was not with them,

but instead with their leadership and above all with Saddam Hussein. This remains the case. You, the people of Iraq, are not our enemy. We do not seek your destruction. We have treated your POWs with kindness. Coalition forces fought this war only as a last resort and look forward to the day when Iraq is led by people prepared to live in peace with their neighbors. There's a flashback for you. Wow, that is a huge flashback.

I just love that George H.W. Bush said to Iraqis, we do not seek your destruction. And then his son. His son seeked their destruction. That is funny. Wow. Yeah, that's a big part of my upbringing, my childhood. My parents, they grew up in India, and they went to Kuwait because that's kind of what a lot of people at that time would do. You went to the Middle East because you found a lot of prosperity. There was a lot of money to be made there, especially for expats. And that's where they met. That's where they got married. That's where my

brother was born. And that's where I was born in 1985. And in 1990 was when the soldiers of Iraq trampled across the border. Yeah. So that's your, like, five years old? I was four at the time because it happened in August and my birthday is in November. So I was four at the time. My brother was eight. And, you know, we actually lived really close to the kuwaiti palace where the sheikhs lived uh we lived a couple of streets away it was a really weird place because

you had this big palace close to the waterfront and then like apartment buildings nearby and we lived in one of the apartment buildings because as an expat in kuwait you're actually not allowed to own any property so um that night, I remember really clearly, I remember really clearly, all of a sudden, you know, in the middle of the night, it was, I think it was about eight o'clock at night, we started hearing like a whistle and a boom and a whistle and a boom. And then we heard, you know, rat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat. And those sounds were very distinct and we didn't know what they were. we didn't know what they were. I didn't know what they were.

My brother didn't know what they were. My dad certainly knew. And we all went up to the window, and we pressed our faces towards the window. And at the time, my mom actually wasn't there with us because she had to go back to India because her father, my maternal grandfather, had just passed away. grandfather had just passed away. So it was up to my dad to, to calm us down, get us all ready for to, to, to get out and, uh, and figure out a way out. It was, it was a wild, wild time. I will say that as a guy born and raised in Toronto, like we hearing stories like that, it's like you start to realize how just we've never had to endure anything of that nature ever.

realize how just we've never had to endure anything of that nature ever. Yeah. I remember, you know, it was really, what really stuck with me is the very next day there was a knock at the door and we all froze, my brother and my dad and myself, we all froze because we didn't know who was on the other side. And my dad went over, he opened the door and there were all of the women in our building, all of them, you know, of them wearing their hijabs and their burqas, and they're holding their children, crying. I don't know where all of the rest of their family were, but they all came into our place. And then our entire apartment was filled with all of these women

and all of these children running around, and my dad frantically running around because, as is custom, you make tea for everyone in our household so he's making a lot of tea for these women and and the funny thing was my brother and i we kept a very close watch on their on their kids we weren't babysitting we were watching to see where they were and whether or not they were gravitating towards our collection of lego right our thought was, you stay away from our Lego, young man. And we were actually in Kuwait for another month before we got out. And we basically had to stay in the desert.

We had to trek all the way through the southern part of Iraq and then all the way through to Jordan, where we caught a plane to go to India. And so along the way, we were in these camps. They were called the Al-Shahlan camps, Camp 1 and 2. I don't remember too much from that time except for the fact that we were very literally

staying in these tents that had basically sticks, two sticks on one side holding up another stick and a canvas on top of it. And I remember standing in line waiting for cans of tuna from the United Nations. And then we eventually caught a flight to Bombay and caught up with my mom in India. It was an interesting time.

Well, you know, that's about the age four, I think, is when you start to actually have memories. Like most of us, when we look back at our earliest memories, you're about four years old, typically. So, like, is this, this would be some of your earliest memories, I would guess, would be this upheaval? I would say so, yeah. Well, because, I mean, it was, it was just such a stark thing to, to kind of experience that, yeah, it certainly stuck with me. My brother probably has many more memories than I do. How much older is your brother? He's four years older than I am. Okay, yeah, yeah, that'd be... So he was eight at the time, so he would have a lot more memories than I do. But,

you know, we remember seeing Iraqi soldiers marching through our streets. We remember, because they never had a problem with people who were of Indian descent, because the beef was with Kuwait, and they wanted to annex and make Kuwait part of Iraq again. And so they never really had a problem with us. So we were allowed to, I wouldn't say roam freely, but we were allowed to kind of, you know, say hello to them, wave to them and whatnot. But you know what I will say, in hindsight, I think that was where this kind of maybe love for news, even if I didn't realize it then, was born. Because every single year on the anniversary of the liberation of Kuwait, there was a huge celebration.

And we would always go to celebrate. And there were documentaries every single year showing us the CNN coverage, showing us what you know, what, um, um, or the newspaper I remember would always have, uh, pictures of all of the Americans who, who passed away in the war. Um, and there were just these, I mean, the documentaries, I just remember documentary after documentary. And it was always that kind of, you know, that nighttime infrared, um, images of like green dots in the sky. And that stuck with me. That always stuck with me. And every single year, you re-experience everything that happened.

And then you know what? There was, in 1998, when we finally decided to come here, all the memories came back up again because there was another attack, or sorry, another threat of attack from Saddam Hussein. And I was in grade seven at the time,

and we had to run these drills, similar to these Second World War drills that kids ran here, where we had to prepare for a gas attack or a bomb or something. And so we had to tape all of the windows in our school, and we had to do all of these drills where we would have to like, you know, hide under our tables or go into the central compound of our school

just because the threat was very real and imminent. And Kuwait is a really rich country and they only have state television. So they didn't have commercials on state television. But from time to time during that period in 1997 1998 they would actually pause television programming which was huge and and they would pause it to show these these ads and these commercials would basically say if you hear this siren you have to immediately close your door lock your door take a wet towel and put it at the base of your door,

go to your bedroom, put another wet towel there. And they would say, because this is a chemical gas attack. PSAs. It was wild. It was just, and I think that was when my parents made the decision. I was going to say,

well, we're not going to stay here. We're not going to have our family torn apart all over again for this. So what I want to know, because I guess you're a teenager at that time. So why, how was Canada chosen as the destination? We had a lot of family here. We have a lot of family in Scarborough. Our family is basically,

my mom is one of 12 children, and they're dispersed between Canada, India, and the United States. And so Canada was like just the natural place for us to go, because we could get sponsored to come here. And you've already got the bug, I guess.

You got the news bug from these documentaries every year. When I was a kid, I used to do radio shows. You know, I would just press record and play on a little recorder and just talk into them. That's how it begins, my friend. Today, you would probably have a podcast. Yeah. I've always talked about doing a podcast. I would love to. If only you knew somebody in the neighborhood who could write a studio for you. Okay. So tell me, because my understanding is you went to Seneca. Is that where you went?

Yeah. So after graduating, the bug was kind of really developed when I was in high school. I took a couple of media courses and that really opened my eyes to what media could be like. And so I went to Seneca College, found the journalism broadcasting program there. And what was great about it was I had teachers who were in the business at the time. Jeff Howitt, who works for Chum FM or worked for Chum FM. Bob Summers taught there. Kim Geddes, who helped me make my first demo tape, who's now the news director at Newstalk 1010. So Bob

Summers, he's the guy on CP24? CP24 and Chum FM and Newstalk 1010. He was, we both got summoned for jury duty on the same day. And we were both in the room together. I took note that he was in the room. And they actually get to say your occupation or whatever.

And then they say yes or no. And they said no to him. He was cast away. But I made that jury. So I was the foreman of that jury. Oh, you did? Yeah. So I was the foreman of a jury that had a murder trial.

But I remember Bob was in the room. So there's my Bob story. Oh, that's really cool. That's my only Bob story. I'd love to do jury duty someday. Uh, yeah, careful what you wish for. But, uh, I was never, I never even considered trying to weasel my way out of it. That seems to be everybody's concern. How do I get out of this? But I never had that thought. My thought was, okay, I have this. All you do is you say, I think

you say your occupation and then you don't say anything else. They don't ask any questions. You just, they say your, maybe they say your name and occupation. I can't remember. And each side says yes or no. And if both sides say yes, you're on the jury. And if one of them says no, you're not. You know what's really funny? It's that simple.

I read this on Twitter today, and I think this is hilarious. You know Martin Shkreli? Yeah, of course. Yeah, the pharma bro, the pharma bro. Shkreli, the... Yeah, of course. The pharma bro. So at his trial, at his jury selection, there was one juror who was denied

because he said that he had contempt for Martin Shkreli, and then he went on to add, and he disrespected the Wu-Tang Clan. Oh, I didn't know that part. I remember he said he had a hateable face or something like that. Well, you know, a number of jurors said that, but it was just funny because it was like an afterthought.

They'd already said, no, juror, you're dismissed. And then he leaned in and said, and he hates the Wu-Tang Clan, or he disrespected the Wu-Tang Clan. That is funny. That is funny. So how did we get there? Oh, yeah, so it's Bob Summer.

So you're at Seneca, and I guess you're 19 years old when you get your first break in the business? Yeah. Oh, by the way, just about Seneca. I actually went to school with a few people who are in the media business now. Tell me. I'll tell you more stories about how I have jury duty stories.

Who knows what this could be? The most notable person who I was actually at Seneca with was Melissa Grello. So Melissa and I, well, there was a group of like these, these four girls who were, you know, who this was their second career. And I just, for some reason, fit in with them because I was just this little 18 year old kid and they thought I was really cute. And we actually worked a lot together. And, you know, I learned a lot from Melissa because she was at that time, you know, older than I was and just a little bit more put together than I was. And I kind of learned a lot from her at Seneca.

It was great. She just had everything. I remember the very first day, Melissa, we had this TV class, and they had a green screen, and we all had to pretend to do weather or try to do weather. And we're all like, you know, over here in Ontario, it's going to be sunny. And Melissa stepped in front of that green screen and it was like she had been doing it for, you know, 20 years. She used to be an elementary school teacher, which is why she probably had a little bit more poise.

But she just went up there and went, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. And we all sat there going, wow. That's a great story. Because when my wife's first maternity leave, so with her first child, my third child, she watched a lot of the social. And I work from home. So sometimes after my lunchtime bike ride or whatever, I'd go upstairs, get something to eat, and the social would be on. And I saw a lot of Melissa Grello

there. But she's done well for herself, right? Because she's on that morning show now. Is it called Your Morning? She's on Your Morning on CTV and CTV News Channel. And she does the social as well. And then she also does a lot of stuff when Tiff comes to town. This girl is impeccable, flawless. Will she still take your calls if you call

Melissa? Yeah, absolutely. Can you get her on my show? Absolutely. I need to get to Melissa Grello. I did not know it was her second career. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was her second career. And actually, she, you know, in between, she was very excited at the end of Seneca because she actually was, you know, in talks for maybe hosting a game show somewhere in the U.S. And she was, do you remember that show Wonder Falls? It was about Niagara Falls.

And it was this very quirky show that only lasted one season. It was in 2005. Well, if you go back and watch that, and if you watch the intro to that show, there is, I guess, what would be like a Native American woman who's riding in a canoe, and that is actually Melissa.

Wow. And if you take a look at that, it's just so trivial. Now, it happened. I married a woman of Filipino descent. Yeah. So, as a rule, i am now aware of everyone who's got some filipino blood in them okay from bruno mars to the guy in black eyed peas like i now know oh so i can tell you with great uh authority that melissa

grello is uh i believe half filipino yeah yeah and maybe and i noticed too you can pass like if you're an actress or whatever you can can pass for different races and ethnicities. My wife sometimes gets, you know, she can pass for different Polynesian or Aboriginal, whatever. You've got that kind of different... Yeah, I get that, too, sometimes. You know, Mexican or, like, you know, Spanish or Indian. People can never really quite tell.

You'd think it would help. And I used to think it's great if you're an actor, but nowadays there's a lot of pushback when you appropriate another culture. And I wonder, like, are you allowed to do that anymore? Like what Lou Diamond, Lou Diamond Phillips, another Filipino. Okay, put that on the list.

But he played a Mexican in La Bamba. And nobody seemed to care. But I wonder, today can you do that? I don't know. That's a really good question. Well, the best example is Short Circuit. You're a bit young

for Short Circuit, but big deal in the 80s. The one with the robot? Yes. Oh, yeah, I do remember that. Johnny Five, okay? I do remember that. Well, yes,

a South Asian was, well, that was a character of a South Asian, I believe from India, played by Fisher Stevens, who definitely is not. Was he named Raj or Patel? Yeah, something like that.

And that, for sure, you can't do that today. A white guy playing a South Asian in the movies. No. Although you could be, what is his name? You could be Matt Damon and play an Asian conqueror in that movie. Yes, but no one saw that movie because they were so disgusted by this notion. Well, John Wayne used to, John Wayne played Genghis Khan

or something like that, I think back in the day, like that's what they used to do. Yeah, I don't think that would fly anymore. All right. Well, but Melissa Grello, future Toronto Mike's guest, because you're going to be phoning her daily.

Melissa, you get a six-pack, you get a pint glass, he treats you nicely, and then you can hang with me afterwards. I'm in the hood. In the hood, yes. In the Etobicoke hood. Yes, the South Etobicoke hood.

All right, please. Okay, who else besides Melissa was in that Seneca class? Because that's a big name in Toronto media. Yeah, yeah. Some people went on to continue on in broadcasting in either smaller. Yeah, yeah. Some people went on to continue on in broadcasting in either smaller forums or bigger forums.

A guy by the name of Jason White now works at 1310 News in Ottawa. You may not have heard of him, but he used to work for 680 News in Toronto and News 95.7 in Halifax. Momin Qureshi, who worked for 680 News now in Toronto, he went to school with me. And there are others. It's really funny because I'll mention Seneca to some people and they go, oh, I went to Seneca.

And you just kind of go, oh, I didn't know that. But there were others. Richie Favalero, who is now on, I want to say, Chum FM, he went to school with me. He was in the radio division. Slajana Taminsic, who's on 680 News, went to school with me. He was in the radio division. Slajana Taminsic, who's on 680 News, went to school with me. There were quite a few.

Seneca is a really great, that's my little plug. Go ahead. Seneca has been a really great kind of training ground for anyone who wants to get into media and onto radio or television. It taught you everything you needed to know in a very... I don't even know what the word is. It was very precise.

This was when I was 17 and 18, and I graduated when I was 18, and my first job was at the age of 19. So has it changed since then? I know that's not that long ago because you're a young man, but it just seems to me... I know, the industry. Oh, the industry. Cracking this industry.

I'm an outsider. Part of the lure of this podcast is I'm a complete outsider. I've never worked in the industry. But even though I now dominate the industry, just kidding. I wouldn't say that the industry has so much changed. In terms of getting into the industry... Are there less jobs? Is it harder to break in?

Well, there are fewer jobs. Yeah, absolutely. In terms of getting into the industry... Are there less jobs? Is it harder to break in? Well, there are fewer jobs. Yeah, absolutely. In terms of breaking in, I don't think it's that... I wouldn't say... It is difficult, yes. And you have to have a certain... Should I start...

If I wanted to pursue a second career, should I just tell me, don't bother? No, you can absolutely do it. That was one of the things we were always told as young journalists. Oh, it's going to be so difficult. You're not going to make any money. Yes, these things are true, but that is the challenge, right? I mean, you're never going to start off as the CEO of any company. You've got to start off at some small town, small market radio station that is happy to have you because A, for them, it means they get fresh talent, moldable talent, and cheap talent. You're not going to get paid a lot, but that's how this industry works. So I always said to people, go out to Saskatchewan, go out to Halifax, go out to Moncton.

That's where I first started in Moncton, New Brunswick. Go out there. That's great advice because too many young people trying to break into the industry want to start in Toronto. This is where they want to begin. And from just conversations with people, sometimes you have to go to start in Toronto. This is where they want to begin. And from just conversations with people, sometimes you have to go to Moncton. Yes, and it's not a slight against any of those communities. It's just that they need new, fresh, local talent because keep in mind, every time a job opens up,

it means that somebody has obviously left to go to better pastures or greener pastures. So those jobs will always open up because the life cycle of the people who stay in those, you know, early reporting gigs are maybe a year, two years, two and a half. It's not that long. So, I mean, for me, it was such a valuable experience. I went to Moncton. I didn't know a single person there. I arrived there on a Friday night. And at the time, Rogers had been starting three brand new stations. All news, it was going to be news talk sports stations. One in St. John, New Brunswick,

News 88.9, one in Moncton, New Brunswick, News 91.9, and one in Halifax, News 95.7. So we went to Halifax, did a little orientation session, and then went to Moncton. I got to Moncton, knew nobody, stayed at a bed and breakfast, and then on a Saturday morning went through the classifieds and had to find an apartment at 19. I had never done any of these things, and I was terrified. In fact, that night, that Saturday night, I was on the phone with my mom, and we were both tearing up. And she said to me, she said, you can come home anytime.

And I said to her, don't say that. She's testing you, though. Well, once you open up that door, it's available, right? So for me, I didn't want to. I wanted to pursue this and make this happen. And you know what? It was so scary, so terrifying. But the reward was massive.

I would not be where I am today. In my basement. Sitting here right now, you know, without that experience. I would not, simply. I visited Moncton for the first time last August. And it's a lovely place. It was on my way to PEI. So we had a bunch of stops. And we stopped in Moncton for a couple of nights. And looking back, though, I remember the big highlight was all of us. We got to stand in the ocean. The tide.

What is it? The greatest tide difference? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, the tide goes out and the tide comes. You come back like you have to go two different times. The Bay of Fundy.

Yeah. No, it's, you know, Moncton was really good. I've made lifelong friends out there because the people were just so good, so inviting, so nice. I loved it. It was small. So it's three communities, Moncton, Dieppe, and Riverview,

and the combined population is like 120,000, which is like Scarborough. So it was a change. Well, no, Scarborough is way bigger than that. Yeah, and you know what? The other thing, too, is it's not as diverse, so, you know,

there aren't a lot of people who look like me, and so, yeah, so it was interesting, but, you know, it was a really good challenge for me, and it was really good stomping grounds. And you get to parlay that experience,

and then next thing you know, you're in the capital. Yeah, well, but here's the thing. One last thought on Moncton. Here's the thing for people who are looking to break into the industry and don't consider a small market. When you're in a small market, I worked with eight other people on this radio station, four of whom were anchors, four or five of whom were anchors. There were three of us who were reporters. There were times when there was nobody to cover a big story

because there were so few people. I got to cover major stories, from the Memorial Cup coming there to the prime minister coming to town. I got to cover the liberal leadership, no, the liberal leadership race when Stéphane Dion was elected. I got to cover big fires, just major events. And that is great, great learning

that you can, the best kind of learning you can ever have. Yeah, and then I'd been there for two years making $22,000. I asked for a raise. They said they couldn't afford to move me into a higher pay bracket was what they said. But the trade-off was the news director there

called the news director at 680 News and said, hey, we have someone here. Can we ship him up to you? And the news director at 680 News, Scott Metcalf, we did a brief interview and said, yeah, we'll have you up. So we had, I came on in 2007 to 680 News and I was the overnight anchor when I first started.

Want to take a wild guess at who my co-host was, my co-anchor? She is, I will give you a hint, now a national reporter at CBC News. Katie Simpson. Katie Simpson. Katie Simpson and I were, that was our duo. And I learned a lot from her. I'd like to say she learned a lot from me, but I don't know. And we were for about six months or so overnight anchors together. And it was a crazy time.

We got to talk Katie Simpson for a minute because whenever I think of Katie Simpson, I think of her, you know, trying to get the mayor, Rob Ford. Like I picture CP24 and Rob Ford doing something, some chaotic thing happening and her camped outside his office, whatever, calling his name or screaming out questions. Well, I remember very clearly Katie Simpson's face

after Rob Ford had dropped the I have plenty to eat at home. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That face, that face will always be tattooed on her. But I always look at her career trajectory as a good example.

So she's worked hard at CP24, and I'm trying to get this right, but I believe she parlays that into an Ottawa gig for the same company, Bell Media. Well, so she started in radio in London, then came to AM640, then came to 680 News. And then after that, she went to CP24.

When CP24 was just starting as its own entity and no longer dependent on City TV anymore. And she started there. And I think she was doing assignment editing first and then she katie's gung-ho katie is like we used to call her like 680 katie when she was at 680 and and you know it was it was just one of those things where the former news director sorry the news director at 680 news scott metcalf used to call her quote the break glass in case of emergency Scott Metcalf used to call her, quote, the break glass in case of emergency. Because anytime you needed somebody, there was Katie. And she was always reliable, dependable, and did an excellent job.

And so she then went on to do this overnight news updates on CP24 and then became a reporter. And she was so good, just so fluent, and nothing could knock her off her game. And especially during those times when Rob Ford was... We talk about the Trump thing now, and the biggest difference is, of course, the stakes are so much higher now with Trump. But looking back... Oh, we already had our Trump. Yeah, except for the stakes, where he was just one vote

on council. He's just a mayor of Toronto. He can only do so much, whereas our friend Donald there has nuclear codes. But so uh but that Ford time I had to stop like I had to stop following it like it was crushing my soul for a while but you know Katie Simpson is now part of that just like Daniel Dale who's also covering Trump now you know it's really funny if you take a look at Rob Ford and all of the reporters who covered Rob Ford, Rob Ford was really good, I guess you could say, for journalism careers. Jackson Prosko from Global went on to become the Washington bureau chief for Global News. Daniel Dale went on to become the Washington bureau chief for the Toronto Star.

We all know the story of Robin Doolittle, who went on to write a book and now works for the Globe and Mail in their investigative team, I believe. Katie Simpson went on to work for CTV National News, and then that acumen transferred over to CBC National. Myself, I'd like to say that the weekend anchoring was also a little bit of a part of that. I mean, there were a lot of people who really saw, you know, huge career changes because of that time, because it really showed what you could do in this, like, incredible, crazy time. And I'd like to add Ashley Rowe to that list, too,

who went on to work for the local ABC affiliate in Buffalo. Yeah, for a news person like yourself, you're right. There's so much substance there. It's not your typical municipal politics, right? Like transit and bike lanes or whatever.

But all of a sudden, it was like, this is a scripted, this is made to be a movie. This can't really be happening, but of course it is happening. And so to close the loop on Katie Simpson, CP24, we all see her. She parlays that into, I believe, to some CTV gig in Ottawa? Yes. Well, she basically went to CTV National News, working out of their Ottawa News Bureau,

which is just down the street from Parliament Hill. And yeah, she was one of the Parliament Hill reporters. And they give them kind of certain files to work on. I forget exactly which files she had. But she was working with Robert Fyfe, who was the news director there, and she was doing an impeccable job. And now she's at CBC.

CBC National. And I see her filing news for the Nationals. So good for Katie. If Katie's listening right now, and she should be, next time you're in town, you need to drop by. Absolutely. Right after Melissa Grillo. Yeah.

Okay, but are you missing? Who am I to question you and your knowledge of your career? But between Moncton and 680 News, don't you help launch an all-news radio station in Ottawa? How did I dream that? No, it was actually while I was at 680 News. So what ends up happening is I've been working at 680 News for a number of years, and they were looking to expand the model of 680. And so they wanted to launch an all-news station in Ottawa.

So it was a couple of weeks that we spent out there in Ottawa, but we launched an all-news radio station there. It was kind of crazy. And we launched during the 2010 municipal elections. So that was the one where I didn't get to actually vote in our Toronto municipal election because I wasn't here.

That was the one where Rob Ford got elected, but I was there for their municipal elections in which Jim, I forget his last name, got elected, the mayor.

Of Ottawa? Yes. No idea. I don't know either. You can say any name. Jim Watson. Jim Watson. Yes. There you go. Alright, great. So 680 News and then you end up at, of course, where you are today and we're going to have a lot of talk about this, but you

you joined CTV News. So tell me, because I'm checking my whiteboard and my... So 680 News is a Rogers station I see here, and CTV is a Bell Media station? Yeah, so 680 News is a Rogers all-news radio station. So did you quit for an opportunity at CTV News? Well, no. I'd come to the point where I had learned, I think, all that I was going to learn at 680 News. It was one of the most creative experiences of my life.

We worked with a very small, tight-knit group of people during the afternoon show. If I may, I'm just going to mention them. No, please. Thomas DeMont, who was the producer of the show and was just one of the most... He's like a father figure still to all of us. There was Momin Qureshi, who's now working at City Hall. There was Shauna Hunt, who is a very close friend of mine, and she and I worked so well together

covering a lot of top stories. Shauna and I could just look at each other. She's at City TV now. She's at City TV. Shauna and I could just look at each other and know what we were thinking. It was uncanny. We just had such a tight friendship.

It was John Ross who was anchoring and Marlene Oliver who was anchoring. It was Diana Pereira who was doing the website and she's now working at City TV as well. And then there was the affable Richard Southern working in business. And it was just such a hive of creativity and we could get away with everything.

Scott Metcalf, the news director, once said that to somebody else, that he would always look up and see us. And we'd always be laughing and joking. And we always looked like we were never doing any work. But he always knew that when anything hit the fan, that we would kind of jump into action. But I had gotten to the point where, okay, I was done learning and I wanted to have a new opportunity. And I'd always said that I wanted to get into TV.

I wanted to get into TV reporting and I wanted to do it by the time I was like about 25. 25 came. 25 came. And so on a whim, I actually called the executive vice president of CTV, and that's Paul Rogers, who now is in charge of Breakfast Television. And he was very kind to actually take my phone call. He brought me in, showed me around, and we had a conversation. And he said, we don't really have jobs right now. But then somebody left. It was Galit Solomon, who now works for the OLG. I have a lot of knowledge.

I don't know who works where. No, it's good. I need somebody like that in my corner. You can be my co-host if you want. So then, believe it or not, Alicia Markson, who works for CTV, who also lives in Etobicoke, not far away from here, Alicia Markson one day bumps into me at City Hall. And she says to me, hey, you want to work in TV, right? You'd be really good. And I said, yeah, it's always been my dream.

And I said, yeah, it's always been my dream. And Alicia went to bat for me, along with a couple of other people who also recommended that I should work there. Janice Golding, Austin Delaney. They kind of mentioned it to Paul, but Alicia went to bat for me. And she told Paul and sat down with Paul and said, you need to hire this guy. And I got a job. Good for you, man. It was great.

It was the scariest thing. I don't know how I had the gumption to just kind of call somebody up and do it, but it worked. Excellent. Good for you. You're still there. We're going to dive into that. But at 680 News,

what happened in the room when you saw that there was a big storm, a snowstorm coming? Did you all get giddy and start flying around like hummingbirds? I just envisioned like, oh, what yeah like a big dump you know so so 680 had all of these stingers right there's the breaking news stinger that this just didn't stinger the happening now stinger but the stinger we there were two stingers that we loved one was the team coverage stinger and

it went something like this it went bum bum bum. This is 680 News in-depth team coverage. And oh my gosh, like my, I get goosebumps. And then the other one was the Storm Center. And that too was just like, just this big voice saying, this is the 680 News Storm Center. And we loved it. And yeah, yeah. Everyone got really excited.

My thoughts are those are obviously a typical thing that would happen. Tomorrow there's going to be, I don't know, I'll make it up. There's going to be 20 centimeters of snow falling in the next 24 hours. This is 680's time. This is it. Let's go. The thing is, we all know our place, right? We all know

exactly what we were going to do. Like Jamie Pulfer was going to be doing the storm center coverage and then one of us would be out there, you know, talking to people, talking to people who are shoveling snow. And yeah, no, it was just a really, really exciting time. And you know what?

Snow storms would often just take over the entire newscast because you would start with the Storm Center coverage and then you would have like, you know, updated weather reports more so than you would normally have. You would have more more so than you would normally have. You would have more traffic reports

than you would normally have. Oh, it was wild. Look, I'm so glad that we as human beings have not figured out yet how to manipulate the weather because without a doubt, you guys at 680 would be creating snowstorms all the time. Could anything be better for the ratings and for the... It's the same thing for CP24 as well.

And even for CTV News. These big weather events actually end up being a huge boon. We always notice whenever there's a snowstorm, whenever there's a big rainstorm or something big, there's a huge spike in...

Remember the ice storm of 2014? I want to say 2014. As a cyclist who cycles in the winter, I remember it vividly. Oh. Because I had to shut it down for two weeks. Oh, wow. It's like the only two-week gap I've had

in the last four years or so. Good for you. Not a fair weather cycler. I just can't go on the ice. Ice is like my enemy because there's no traction. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and you want to come home at the end of the day.

That is the ultimate goal. As I say, I bike to live. I don't bike to die. Yeah. But yeah, that ice storm, for instance, ended up being days and days and days of great ratings simply because... And that's when you see the power of local news

because people tune in because we are the only place where you're going to get that stuff. You're not going to get it from BuzzFeed or from Huffington Post. Local is where it's at. Local is where it's at. Oh, 100%. When there's a shooting at Shreway Gardens,

you know, we're not going to the New York Times. No. Well, and Rob Ford stuff too, right? Where were you getting that from? From 680, from the Toronto Star, from CTV and CP24. Oh my God, that was just too crazy. Okay, so yeah, that's 680.

We'll put a wrap on that. Thank goodness for snowstorms, let's say that. So at CTV News though, let me give some facts. So you joined them in May 2011. You're a reporter and then shortly thereafter,

like November 2011, you're a weekend co-anchor on Toronto's number one news team. Yes. So we can see you. You're the Walter Cronkite of weekends. Oh, well, that's like comparing plums to watermelons here. People like plums. But you know, it really came out of the blue for me

because I always like to say that reporting was the goal and anchoring is kind of the gravy at this point because I started there with the intent of being the reporter and it all kind of came naturally because TV is a lot of fun, but it kind of was an extension of what i was doing in radio anyway just now with the pictures and the face on tv um and i really enjoyed being creative with it all but then in in september november tom hayes had decided that he was going to leave he'd been the weekend anchor for 14 years and so he decided that you know he was going to go. He had been the weekend anchor for 14 years. And so he decided that, you know, he was going to go on and he'd gotten a job with City TV. And so he wanted to, to, uh,

to depart. And shortly before that, they had tested me out in the anchor desk and, uh, and I didn't know what was going to come of it. And, you know, what was really funny was when they tested me out, people were so curious that, curious that Paul Rogers was like standing kind of in the shadows while I was anchoring and Ken Shaw was in the control room watching. I didn't know that at that time. Did he put on that voice? No, that is his voice. If I met him in a supermarket, he'd be talking like Ken Shaw. Yeah, we always joke with the CTV News stats now, because that's the way he says it. And he's the only person who can do it in that way. But I didn't know what was going to come of it. And then a few weeks later, they offered me the Weekend Anchor gig. And I was stunned. I was

stunned. And it's been a heck of a ride ever since. All right, time for some real talk. I got a question. Because, you know, recently, Peter Mansbridge, I don't know if you heard this, but Peter Mansbridge stepped down. Yeah, it's like fresh news. Almost an exclusive here. My gosh.

And they replaced him with like four people, I believe. Yes. And I noticed just because I noticed these things that there's no white guys in that group, okay? Peter Mansbridge was not, no white guys replaced Peter Mansbridge, which is great. The best four people there's uh people there four people ian's there you know ian hannah manson uh i rosemary barton right you know them better than i do name those four people who else

is on that list um i i there's there's one i don't know yeah there's one i don't know too he was a local anchor from vancouver i forget what his name is That's the guy. Ali or something? I'm not sure. And then the other person is Adrienne Arsenault, who's a fantastic reporter. She's good. They're all really good. They're all really good. My point is, do you think it helped you that you're not a white guy?

You know, I've never really used my background. I've never seen it as a hindrance, and I've never seen it as a help either. I would like to think my personal motto is right place, right time, right talent. I really try to pride myself on working hard at what I do, and I hope that that reflects. Now, that being said, I think that more and more newscasts in this city need to be more reflective of the greater Toronto area. We are speaking to an incredibly diverse audience. You know, the top two ethnicities are Asian and South Asian.

So I just think that, you know, a lot of newscasts have to be a little bit more reflective of the diversity that is in the GTA because I think people at home like to see themselves represented on TV. It's why many people come up to me and they say, I'm proud of you for representing my community. And you know what? At first, it was kind of a weird thing for me to hear

because I said, oh, I'm not really doing this to represent anybody. And then I kind of embraced it because I thought, well, hey, if you see yourself in me, and if that means that your kids see a

potential inspiration, then that's great. That's amazing. And the bottom line is, you can't change how you look. You never got some option. Well, I can dye my hair once it turns gray. You can frost your tips. Oh yeah.

You might want to try that. Oh yeah. Yeah. Let's go right back. If you frosted your tips today, would your, who you have a director or producer who's in charge of the, uh,

six o'clock, uh, Saturday, uh, yeah, yeah. We have a, we have a,

we have a couple of our, our news director, Sophia Skapliti. Would she pull you aside and just ask you like, Hey, maybe, maybe this is not what we're looking for. We're a serious news organization.

Yes. Lose the frost? Yeah. I mean, somebody would probably say this is news, not NSYNC. Get out. That is very NSYNC. That is very NSYNC. All right.

Who's your co-anchor? My co-anchor is one of the most wonderful people. No, it's not me, though. Women in television. Oh, woman. I said woman. You will ever meet. Andrea Case.

Andrea is a sweetheart. I cannot even tell you. This woman is so full of life and a bit crazy about it, too. She is an incredible person. She has friends everywhere because she's a bubbly, vivacious, very loving personality.

I mean, you know, in terms of having a co-anchor, a lot of people say, okay, you need chemistry for those two people on the desk. And the thing is, it's not like Andrea and I have ever worked on chemistry. People tell us that we have chemistry. We never worked at it. It's just natural. She laughs at my jokes. I laugh at her jokes.

It's just natural. She laughs at my jokes. I laugh at her jokes. You know, every day when she comes in, every weekend, Saturday or Sunday, whenever she comes in, she'll kind of make a beeline for my desk after saying hello to people and stuff. And I get up and we hug each other.

I am pleased to hear this. Yeah, because I genuinely have love for her. And I miss when she's not there with me. So when the red light is on, you have the same chemistry and fondness for each other as you do when the red light is not on. Yes. Yeah. I mean, those smiles that you see are genuine. And regular listeners

will know what I'm about to say, but when I recently had Ann Ruskowski on the show, did you listen to that episode? Because that's your homework now to go listen to Ann Ruskowski on the show, did you listen to that episode? Because that's your homework now to go listen to Ann Ruskowski. You know what? I think I'd heard Alex Pearson talking about the episode. Alex was on and we talked about it. So you already know where I'm going with this, but when the red light

was not on, Gord would not talk to Ann Ruskowski. Gord Martineau would not talk to Ann Ruskowski. This is according to Ann, because what would I know? And then when the red light came on, we saw what we saw, which was best buds. And I know that's your job.

You can turn it on when you have to be on. But it's nice to hear that you and Andrea have... You know what's actually funny? I lack that ability. I'm not good at it either. Because it's like if... You know, I will never treat you poorly if I dislike you. But if I know i i will never treat you poorly if i dislike you but if

i don't have that chemistry with you i i generally don't try to like faking it it's it's just it's just not i i don't know i i don't like to be phony phony about it because so much of television has been phony and like yuck yuck kind of a of a thing. And it's just not, it's not, it's not intrinsically me. And I, I just, I dislike it. So what happens if, if Andrea gets an offer, she can't refuse. They want her to be the fifth anchor of the national and she goes off and does that. Okay. And they bring in somebody like, let's say they bring in an asshole. What are you going to do? You're just going to have to bite your lip. And when the red light comes on, you're going to have to pretend you like the person. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think a lot of those situations too

are a product that really is out of the hands of the people who are there, right? Because they're not making the decision as to who's going to be their co-host that's made by somebody else. And so, you know, you put the viewer first, you put the viewer, um, above all, and you say, well, how am I going to make this as friendly as possible for the viewer? So I can see where and why that, that stuff would happen. Um, but I mean, you still don't have to be, you know, um, you can be nice about it if you, even if you dislike them, but you know, I've seen it, I've seen it where people don't like each other and they don't talk to each other off camera. You know what's really funny

actually? That isn't only in media. I was reading something about Penn and Teller, and they actually are not friends outside of their stage show. I read the same thing. And other than when they collaborate to create magic,

they don't talk to each other. They share nothing in common, which I found to be really kind of disappointing and disheartening. You know, this is common. What was the relationship? They became good friends, in a sense, Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert, but they were kind of famous

for having kind of a... They didn't really hang. They wouldn't hang. Yeah, they didn't hang. They swam in different circles, et cetera. But there's a lot of examples of these dynamic duos we think of in that off, you know, they just weren't, they didn't hang.

They weren't buzz. They were just people that we tied together all the time. Jim Taddy and Mark Hebbshire, okay? You're a little young for this, but this was my, Sportsline was my show. Hebbshire and Taddy were my guys. Hebbshire's become a very good friend. He's been on the show several times.

Taddy won't come on, but those two people, I don't believe they communicate at all anymore. You hear that these people weren't friends. I know, and that really is a shame. I think a lot of people have this idea of what people on TV are like, right? And sometimes they don't match up to the expectation. It just doesn't. I mean, I will say for the most part, the people you see on television, at least in my experience, are a very accurate reflection of who they are in person, right? Most people on TV are really nice people.

But there are some assholes at CTV, right? You don't have to name them, but there are a few. You have to tell me. There are some, right? Well, you know, there are interesting personalities and characters

at any place you work. And I've encountered people who, not necessarily at CTV, at every place who are difficult to work with and, you know, people who I wouldn't necessarily want to,

you know, hang out with or go for a beer with or anything. And then, but then there's the polar opposite. People who, you know, I had many of my co-workers at my wedding. Many of my co-workers, you know, when we have Christmas parties and stuff, I take my kid and, you know, I show them videos and stuff like that. And it's just, it really is a family atmosphere. And we care about each other. It isn't in all instances, but it's largely there. I'm going to ask you about recent technical difficulties. And then I'm going to tell you a brief story about my CTV bias. Just, I'm going to tell you a little story.

So recently, what was it a couple of airplanes clipped the wings or something at pearson airport yes yeah two two airplanes clipped wings uh which is like i don't know maybe maybe like a plane high five kind of a thing which is never a good idea right no not recommended but you of course you're you have uh live interviews with some people uh a woman at the airport well Well, what was actually happening was the way a lot of, so Miranda Anthisel, our reporter, was out there. And the way we do things is a reporter will go, they'll talk to all of the appropriate people, and then they'll put a story together. Kind of the highlights of everything that has happened today with a lot of context and insight. And then we do what's called a top and a tag around that life piece.

So you throw to your own report. I throw to you. So she was getting ready to do that top. And as she's getting ready to do that top, this woman kind of elbows her way in, and you can hear her say the F word, but in the scuffle or the kerfuffle, you can't really hear it.

And then it's very pronounced, and the next thing she does is she gives the big old middle finger. She flips you the bird. Aye. And then, you know, it's more of a panic. It's a panic for everybody, because this stuff doesn't always happen.

You know, out of 100 newscasts, this may happen once. It may happen not at all in 100 newscasts, right? So there's this moment where, you know, time kind of slowly pauses and it's moving very slowly. And we're all kind of going, what do we do? What do we do? What do we do? And you can see that she's kind of, you know, ushered off camera. And in the meanwhile, I just go, okay, well, and I think I used the wrong term. I said technical difficulties, which I really shouldn't have. It's just one of those terms that kind of, you know, comes to the forefront. What I had meant to that kind of, you know, comes to the forefront. What I meant to say was that, you know, obviously there is something happening there. We'll get back to Miranda in a little bit.

But first, here's her report. But then Miranda came back into frame. And, you know, it wasn't the smoothest moment of television. But these things happen. You know, we're in a public space and we're live. And whenever you have... And there's evidence that you're live. At least that proves to the audience this is actually live. Yeah.

And yes, yes, I guess that's the silver lining of it all. But more than that, also, it's probably the most viral you've gone, you know, in a while. Like in that people who aren't regular watchers of CTV News saw, a lot of us saw that clip. Well, the thing is for news anchors, you don't want that to be viral, right? Because if you look at news anchors on YouTube, the next word is bloopers, right? So that gets added to the blooper reel, unfortunately. But, you know, it's one of those things that we can't really help. And people seem to...

It's like a magnet. Those live television... Well, you mentioned Shauna Hunt earlier. And I'll just use the initials. F-H, you know the rest, I guess. F-H-R-I, that one. But that was sort of an awful trend, if you will, on live pieces.

And it still happens. It still happens, yeah. And, you know, particularly the one place it would happen most frequently is outside a particular place, I won't mention it, where a certain hockey team in Toronto plays. I'm not talking about the Marlies.

You know, it's a product of... Beer? A lot of beer or a lot of alcohol. And for some reason, people just think that they can say these things with impunity. And it makes no sense to me that people would do that. See, I'm old enough to remember

when people would just yell, bubba booey. This was the thing. You yelled, bubba booey. I would love if people yelled bubba booey. You know, that's not one of the seven words you can say on television. You can say bubba booey all you want.

But this whole FHRI, whatever. Yeah, like I mentioned off the top, people are ruder than they used to be. They are. And, you know, one of the things that happens now, and I had this yesterday, I was doing a live hit on High Park Boulevard. This is the last place you would expect something like this to happen. Somebody drives by. You did this yesterday?

Yes. What time? Can I just ask? No, no, no. It wasn't on TV. This was just before. And as they're driving by, somebody with the window down yells, fake news! CTV?

Yeah, they just yelled it. They didn't know who we were. They just yelled it at us. And you know... Well, I know you can blame for that one. Oh my gosh. Yes, we know who you can blame. But it's Oh my gosh. Yeah, well, yes, we know who you can blame. But it's just people have this thought that they can yell anything at us, you know?

And I guess the opposite is true, too. They sometimes will yell, you know, I love you, which never happens, really. That would be great. But you know what? I've had it. And you know what's really interesting, Mike, is we have it from young people, not necessarily older interesting mike because we have it from we have it from young people not necessarily older people but we have it from women too like i've had

it yelled at me several times because i would think that would be a young male thing it's not always it's just people think it's a funny thing to do and they get the laugh but you know it's one thing if you're driving by but it's another thing if you're driving by, but it's another thing when you come into my space and you do it. So I put it this way. It's as if I came into your office while you're actually giving a big presentation to your boss and to maybe, let's say, a hundred other people, and I went in there and I interrupted the whole meeting and yelled, F-er right in the P.

I went in there and I interrupted the whole meeting and yelled, F-R-I-T-E-N-G-T-E-P. You would look, I would look stupid and you would look pretty stupid and you would feel very embarrassed and you would feel like, well, who let that guy in? And you know, and the thing is, you feel as the person on air, personal responsibility because you feel, why couldn't I keep that person off the air? Why couldn't I? And you know, and at times it makes you feel unsafe. It makes you feel, why couldn't I keep that person off the air? Why couldn't I? And at times, it makes you feel unsafe. It makes you feel unsafe. Yesterday, actually, another story.

Sorry, this was on Tuesday. I was on the University of Toronto campus. And as I was live on air, some guy who's listening to music, you could see it. You could just see it. And I could see it in my peripheral vision. He was coming around the camera. And he wanted to walk right in front of the camera as I was on the air.

And my cameraman just stepped in front of him. And I think, what is with you people? What, like, I get it. I get it, I'm on your campus. But that doesn't give you the right to just come in and... No, no, no. It's almost like,

I think it might be a bit like those guys at the dome who have really good seats and then they spend the whole time on a phone waving or whatever, you know, and people just want their 15 seconds. I guess so. I guess so. And if you want your 15 seconds of fame, go behind me and wave. I don't care. I can't really help that. But, you know, don't try to interrupt what I'm doing because this is my job. Well, I was amused that you called it technical difficulties. I know, I know. Since we're buds here, I'm just going to let you know that was a fun part of the story

because it clearly was not technical difficulties. No, I know. You needed something quick. Well, you know what? It was one of those things where really I misspoke. And in hindsight, if I were to go back and do it again, well, if I were to go back and do it again, you know, we would have known that someone was going to come give us the bird. But no, I think there are more appropriate things to say than technical difficulties in those situations. But it's one of those things where it happens to you so rarely that you really get caught off guard and you just, you end up saying things that you don't really mean to say. You need to segue out of something prematurely and abruptly and that's a term that jumped into your head yes yes so it wasn't it wasn't the best term but it was the term that uh came to mind all right i

mentioned my so yeah you were gonna tell me about my ctv bias okay so um as a young man who was getting into news and stuff i I loved City TV news. The Moses City TV. City TV everywhere. Right. The Merck Daily. That was my station. And I just thought it was cool because they weren't behind a desk and wearing suits.

Well, maybe they dress up, but they were walking around and it was like an environment. And I liked the whole, what is it, 299 Queen? Yes. Yeah. I liked the whole, what is it, 299 Queen? Yes. Yeah, I liked that whole vibe in that space. And I was a City TV news guy everywhere. That was the voice. And then they got polished and sanitized and they lost their cool character, in my opinion.

And I stopped watching City TV and I started watching CBC. And I, in fact, to this day, either on radio or television, I go to CBC. And I, in fact, to this day, either on radio or television, I go to CBC. You don't want to hear this, I know. But I will say for the audience at home, I'm pretty certain, and you'll say this, that when it comes to these ratings we get, CTV is the number one newscast in the city. Number one. It has been for decades. This is what I hear. Yes. I've never spent a minute on CTV news. And sometimes I hear names,

like names that people see, like Lisa LaFlemme. Am I saying that right? Lisa LaFlemme. LaFlemme. Yeah. She's a big deal, right? She's lead anchor for CTV.

This is a big deal. I haven't seen her. Like, I never see her unless she's on a billboard or something. I'm driving by or biking by. So I feel like because I was a City TV guy and I was a CBC guy, for some reason,

global as well, by the way, global and CTV are entities I'm completely unfamiliar with. Really? I know, isn't it? And I think it's a personal bias and it's not based on, it's not that I watch CTV news

and I don't like the presentation. I have seen you flipping channels and stuff. I'll say, hey, there's the guy I know from Twitter. You probably just haven't had too much exposure to it. See, the thing is, a lot of CTV viewers are actually legacy viewers.

In terms of, back in the 70s and 80s, when there were very few options, the 1130 newscast on CTV Toronto, CFTO as it was known back then, used to have a 50 share, which means out of 100% of the people who are watching...

Bear with me. I did not turn off my phone. Which means out of 100% of people who are watching television, 50% of them, one in two, were watching CFTO. Which is amazing. That is insane. That's like the finale of MASH numbers. Yeah, it's massive.

And so those people watched as a family. It was one of those appointment viewing times, and they made it a point to watch as a family together. And so many young people who I speak to today still say to me, I used to watch with my grandma all the time, or I used to watch with my dad all the time. And so that's where that kind of love of CTV continues. It's with people who, you know, it's like passed down through the generations, right? And it would be the same thing with people who watch C know, it's like passed down through the generations, right? And it would be the same thing with people who watch CBC.

It's like passed down through the generations. It's like I watch Peter Mansbridge because my dad watched Peter Mansbridge. It's a comfort food, right? It is, yeah. It's a grilled cheese sandwich. Absolutely. And when you come to become familiar with a particular person, when you come to like their style, their delivery, they become a part of the family. And when they become a part of the family, what are you going to do? You're going to what, kick them out of the house?

No, you're not. You're going to keep watching. And so for people who have never watched, well, there sometimes isn't a lot of incentive. And it's a really weird thing in television. And I mean, thank God this is not really my pur purview but how do you get those new people in right that's that's the and in this day and age where you read different pieces you know so when gordon martineau left

when they fired him or he's not renewed his contract or whatever and he left city tv rather abruptly uh fairly recently i'm not sure they even replaced him with another anchor. Like, I think they do some committee, hosting by committee type thing with reporters. Like, I don't think they have an anchor for that city. Well, they actually have a pretty interesting new concept in which what they do is they, their reporters are their anchors

and they go from one reporter to the next, to the next, to the next. So it is, you know, what you could call an anchorless newscast, but it isn't really also. But it is kind of because we're used to that one face. We're used to that. So Peter Mansbridge is a great example where they replaced him with four people. Yes. So that's a great example. So is the anchor in decline, like in 2017, is the day of the anchor behind us i mean that's an excellent question um and i can't really as an anchor i can't really well no i can't really answer it because i mean

you know you need somebody at the end of the day who is the overview and you need somebody who like you need the macro and the micro right and the anchor is the macro, the reporter is the micro. So when it comes to City TV, when it comes to CBC National, they have removed one anchor and replaced them with many. But those people are still anchoring a part of the newscast because you start off with one reporter who tells you their story and then they throw to the next and then they throw to the next. But at some point, there's one reporter there who's telling you, you know, the general blotter news, right? Shooting here, stabbing here. This happened in North Korea. This happened here. Right. And that person still exists. That heart of the equation hasn't gone away. That still is a part of the

show. So, you know, at what point do you declassify that, that part as the anchor and, you know, classify them as a reporter or, or vice versa, right? It's one of those things where, I mean, maybe that traditional one anchor is, is being reassessed. i don't know if it's necessarily gone it's still for us we have actually have a two anchor show right we have a two anchor at the six and a one anchor at the 1130 but we still have an anchored show and and ct um city tv has an anchored show for their 1130 and an anchored show for their weekend so i mean it really is the amount of resources that you have to dedicate to a particular show. I will also say, though, when it comes to big events, who are you going to turn to?

You need one person there who's kind of stick-handling everything. You look at Peter Mansbridge when it came to the death of Jack Layton or when it came to the shootings of Parliament Hill. You need that one person who is a bit stoic, who has a good, calm voice kind of leading you through everything.

And they are the main person there and he can put out all of his tentacles to get all of the information and deliver it to you. So you're not hearing it from multiple people who, you know, one person knows one part of the story, another person knows another part of the story. You need it from one person. And so that's the question, right? If you eliminate that person, how do you stick handle those big stories, which we've had many of. So now that you are a weekend co-anchor, so what's your goal here? You're still a young man, but where do you wish to go from here? Is

the goal to eventually get Lisa's job, eventually, when she decides to move on? No. It's one of those things where I've always had goals. My goal at first was to become a radio reporter. I achieved that. Then it was to get to 680 News. I achieved that. Then it was to become a television reporter. I got that. I never really considered anchoring.

So I'm kind of in a territory where I don't really know what is next. I think one of the things I do want to focus on is digital storytelling. I think that is a platform that a lot of news stations haven't quite figured out exactly yet, because the big question is, you know, how do I monetize this? How do I really make this profitable? Because I don't want to put the investment into something that isn't really going to pay off at the end of the day. So I think digital is kind of where I want to focus a little bit more on and see what's there, see where I can go. But I am, at the heart of everything, a storyteller, and I love creativity. So I want to see where I can tell more stories, maybe more long-form stories, maybe more, I don't know. But telling stories is what I'm really passionate about.

Happy to hear that because I'm looking for stories. So you tell the stories because I want you to tell me a story. That's what I'm looking for, more stories. Yeah. That's what we're looking for. Who's the guy who put together 60? He's passed away now, but who's the guy behind 60 Minutes? I'm really putting you on the spot here.

That's not fair to you. But that guy, when they were having some anniversaries, 60 Minutes anniversary, I heard him talking, and the root of 60 Minutes was, you know, tell me a story. And I watched,

it used to be like an appointment thing for me every week to watch 60 Minutes, and I want, you know, it wasn't just for Andy Rooney's rants, okay? I wanted stories. And a lot of the reason that this is happening right now, you and I sitting down here for, by the way, already, you know, 100 minutes. We're going to pick up the jams and get out of here.

Yeah. Wow. You know, 100 minutes we've been going and it's because I want to hear your stories. So please keep making stories. Go ahead. Oh, sorry. I was going to say, you know what? That to me is the most important thing because I think we all grew up in stories. So please keep making stories. Go ahead. Oh, sorry. I was going to say, you know what? That to me is the most important thing because I think we all grew up on stories. We all grew up on once upon a time and the end. And to me, that's why a lot of my stories are very

linear. I start with how something happened and come to the conclusion. But stories, I think, are what everyone wants to hear, what everyone has grown up with. And so that's what we do. It's not just telling you about a news event. It's about telling you a story. And that's magic always. And I want to hear a story about why you love your favorite song. So tell me this, because you have listened to a few episodes of Toronto Mic'd.

Have you ever listened to a kick out the jams episode? I don't think I have. You would know if you have. So I know that's a no. Let's kick them out. Okay. Well, well,

if we kick them out, you come here with 10 songs. Okay. Okay. I can play all 10. This would be a future visit, of course. But just to tease everybody,

I asked you to tell me your favorite song of all time. And I was, this was difficult to come up with, but this is one that I listen to quite frequently. And the song you mentioned, there's two big versions, if you will. I'm going to play the cover. I'm going to play it now.

Then I'll fade it down and then we'll hear why you love the song. So here's one of Colin's jams. And you can sing along if you want. I'm going to keep your mic open. I don't have that great of a voice. I don't have that great of a voice. gonna be your number one. I'm not the kind of girl who gives up just like that. Oh no. It's not the things you do that tease and hurt me bad. But it's the way you do the things you do to me I'm not the kind of girl Who gives up just like that

Oh no The tide is high But I'm holding on I'm gonna be your number one Of course, that's Blondie. Who, by the way, she was in town recently, and she still looks great. Oh, gosh. She was a fox.

She's still a fox. You look at those pictures of Blondie in, like, the 70s and the 80s, and my God, my heart still flutters. Dude, I'm with you. I'm with you. Blondie, this is The Tide Is High, which is a cover. Because in a moment, I'm going to play the other one.

Yeah, it's a cover of a John Holt song by the same name. He actually wrote it. John Holt was a Jamaican, I believe a Jamaican artist who was with the Paragons. And he originally wrote the song and performed it with the Paragons and then Blondie took it over.

I guess I did a cover during her Ska days. Now, let me ask you, when you hear this song, what emotion comes to mind? Is it happy? It's happy. It's happy. It's a happy song. It's a summer song. See, for me, it's not.

Oh, tell me. It's not. One of the things I love to do is I love to read true crime novels or true crime books i i i read them about you know from from jeffrey dahmer to paul bernardo and carla carla homolka um and and i have a very distracted mind so whenever i do read a book i need to listen to music so i have a few choice tracks like there's one song from the soundtrack of American Beauty that I listen to when I read a sadder book. You can't remember the song?

From American Beauty? No, I forget exactly which one it is. And then there's another song. It's Enya's The Gladiator theme that if I ever read a book about war or Canadian soldiers or something like that. It's got good arcs, good highs and lows. But this song, I started listening to this song maybe about, I don't know, let's say 10 or 15 years ago when I was reading true crime novels.

And it has become intertwined with true crime. Wow. It is such a weird song to listen to when you're, but for me, those trumpets that you hear in the back and this part specifically, the da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, it, for some reason, it has this evil undert undertone to me i don't know why it's maybe because of what i'm reading while i'm actually listening to this song but there's a nice

juxtaposition with a like a happy song that's kind of juxtaposed with something terrible or tragic or dark like yeah i find that that can sometimes work ironically for me it for me it has a lot of melancholy to it right that's what it kind of sounds like. It doesn't really sound like, to me, a happy song. Because to me, whenever I listen to the song, it like transports me into my favorite book or people read this book. It was a book by a guy by the name of Nick Prawn, I believe. He wrote a book. I can't get the name of it right now. But it was written in 1995, right after the trial of Paul Bernardo ended. And he goes into just horrible detail about what happened in St. Catharines. And I was listening to this song and, you know,

it just evokes such emotion for me and such, you know, because I'm not reading these books to glorify anything. I'm reading these books because I have a real, not a curiosity, but a real interest in what makes these people tick. I would have gone into criminal psychology if I was smart enough to. But that's why I like this song. Anytime I hear this song, it just transports me into that book,

into a book of that genre. And you gravitate towards the Blondie cover, not the John Holt... I do. One day, though, I was on a plane, and all of a sudden, I saw The Tide is High, but I'd seen it by this group, and I thought that this was the cover,

and when I played it, I immediately fell in love. So for those who only know the Blondie version, this is John Holt. only know the blondie version. This is John Holt. And he changes gender here. And there is a Toronto connection because Cardinal Oficial. Was it with Rihanna? Yeah, with Rihanna.

Is Rihanna the chick on that? I think she might be the... I feel like she's on that track. But number one, N-U-M-B-A, I believe. That was a popular track. There have been a number of covers of this song. I think there was like an all-girls group

that did it in like the mid-2000s, and then Cardinal Fischel did it as well. There have been a there have been a few and I think some of the also use this that kind of background sound of that that melody in some of their songs but it's just such a good song and this one just has so much pining I just I love it the way he sings it, his voice, and this part too, just the guitar in it. Cool track.

One day I'm going to put together a list of songs people don't know are covers. Like a couple that jumps out at me, Girls Just Want to Have Fun by Cyndi Lauper. Is that a cover song? Yes.

See, you didn't know that. The one that I think, I think maybe people do know it and I'm naive, but Soft Cell, soft sell, a tainted love. Was that a cover? That's a cover.

I know Marilyn Manson did a cover of that song. Yeah. Marilyn did a bunch of, I was a Marilyn Manson fan when I was in my early teens. You know, he's not the guy from Mr. Belvedere. Okay.

That was the big rumor before we could all Google it. But, uh, he was the kid, the guy, the older son in mr belvedere people don't talk about mr belvedere much anymore i don't know if that show uh i can't really say that i know who mr belvedere is oh born china i won't ruin this song with my mr belvedere theme

song here i'll let it fade out norm wil Willner was on Kicking Out the Jams, and he says he doesn't like songs that fade out. He likes songs that just kind of end up... Have a hard end? Yeah, like a bum, done. Doesn't like the fade out. I thought that was interesting, because I don't think I notice when a song fades out

or when that one faded out. Well, you wouldn't notice if it faded out. You would notice if it didn't fade out. That's right. Just end on a bang. My friend, this was an absolute delight. I hope you enjoyed yourself. I actually had such a great time.

I'm shoeless right now, barefoot, and I'm actually... Me too. I'm sitting on the chair. I'm really having a great time. This was great. Make sure we get a picture afterwards so people can see, you know,

before the Grecian formula and after compare and that brings us to the end of our 258th show you can follow me on twitter i'm at toronto mike and colin is at colin de mello no apostrophes in twitter land no apostrophes our friends at great lakes brewery are at great lakes beer and property in the land. No apostrophes. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. And propertyinthesix.com is at Brian Gerstein. See you all next week. I want to take a streetcar downtown Read Andrew Miller and wander around