Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Colin James: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1976

Episode Date: September 22, 2026

In this 1976th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Colin James about his new book Playing the Changes: A Musician's Memoir, a poignant, humourous and heartfelt coming-of-age memoir from one of Canada's most beloved musicians.A version of this podcast without programmatic ads is available to all Toronto Mike'd Patrons at patreon.com/torontomike.Toronto Mike'd, an award-winning podcast, is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca.If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Colin James, and I approve of this podcast. Sure but sweet. I like it. Welcome to episode 1,976 of Toronto-Miked, an award-winning podcast, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at great lakesbier.com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees

from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville Visit palma Pasta.com for more Fusion Corpsoe Nick Aeini's He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline And Mike and Nick Two podcasts that you ought to listen to Recycle My Electronics.comitting to our planet's future

means properly recycling or electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, returning to Toronto Mike, it's Colin James. Colin, let's tell the listenership that you looked at me, I looked at you, and I said, there's my old friend Colin James, and you were thinking, I've never met this man before. Be honest with us all. You know, it's out of context.

Sometimes it's hard to know if you know somebody or not. And you do a lot of interviews. Over the years, indeed. A lot of interviews. So I'm going to jog your memory and we'll see if it all comes back to you, okay? Okay. When was it? September 2018.

Okay. So it's been more than five long years. Okay. See what I did there? Yeah, I see that. You're using the song. Yeah. It's been more than five long years.

It was September 2018. So what is that? That is eight years. years ago. Wow. Eight years ago this month, you visited my South October Tabocco Basement Studio. I remember. It's coming back to you. Okay. What do you remember? This is like a therapy or something here. Well, I just remember being on the street with you. Yeah, we took a photo by the tree. Yeah, exactly. I can show it to you after. But you look different. But okay, tell me how I look different. Because in many years. Your hair wasn't as long. Oh, you're right. I did

wear it like George Clooney and ER. Yeah. I mean, that's what it was. Okay. Okay. So I'll read the description I wrote at the time because I do remember feeling and I can't remember who brought you over. I can't remember maybe it was Eric Alper. Yeah, that sounds about right. So Eric, you know, he brings over people like Gino Vanelli and Biff Naked and Andy Kim and you name it. And I remember the beginning of that conversation, I'll read the description. We talked for an hour and 17 minutes. We won't go as long this time because we won't do the A to Z of your illustrious career.

But I remember thinking at the beginning, oh, call. Paul and James is from the old media world where you went on radio stations and you went to like the Bell Media place or the Rogers or the CBC building, which is down the street here. We'll talk about where we are. But you were used to the old media, the mainstream media. And suddenly you're in some basement studio on some guy's podcast. And I could tell at the beginning you weren't sure where the hell you were. But you got into the groove and you were great.

Oh, great. Well, that's nice to know. You know, I do come from that. You know, and I remember the days when they would put me like in CFNY or some station, like a Q107. Yeah. And they would let me play a lot of call James. They would let me play an acoustic guitar live. And I loved it because the way the compressors would hit the, it sounded so cool.

And I couldn't believe they'd let me do that. And that doesn't happen anymore. Well, let me tell you, I would let you do that. Where's your guitar? Grab your guitar. It's in Vancouver, sadly. Vancouver. So that was episode 381.

Wow. And I'll read the description. I wrote it at the time. It's very simple. Mike Chats of Colin James about his 19 albums over 30 plus years of making music. So we basically ran the gamut. Like the A to Z of Colin James's career. We covered it all September 2018.

And here we are together again. Yeah. Yeah. We've gone through COVID. We made it through COVID. Yeah. We're running through. What did we make it through?

We made through COVID. So I need, well, I'm going to have you tell. people where we are, but I will say that I'm really like happy to have you back. I've read your new book, which is called Playing the Changes, a musician's memoir. I have questions about

it, obviously. I got audio loaded up. This is the return of Colin James, but can you tell the listenership where we are? We're not in South Atopico. Well, we're at Penguin Random House, Canada's offices, is where we are. So literally, astute listeners will say, hey,

you just recorded toast. You did home jams of Rob Pruss, Rob Pruss from Spoons and Honeymoon Suite. And Bob Willett who's on the radio here at Indy 88. I don't think they're playing enough Colin James. I'm going to have to talk to them about that. But I just recorded with them and that a car, like they sent a car to pick me up and deliver me,

here I am downtown, down the street from the CBC. Very nice office, too, by the way. Yeah, so is this your first time here? It is. Is this your first book? Yes. The first book you've ever read. Yeah.

Well, no, no, I'm an avid reader. You know, I quit, I quit school young, so I always felt it was incumbent on me to learn on my own. So I've always, I've always felt a little like I didn't go through, I didn't read the classics like most people did in grade 12 and 11. Obey Dick and all that. So, it's a whale, by the way. Thank you.

It's a spoiler. But I love reading. I do read a lot. Yeah, I do. So I got to ask you off the top. Well, you know, before I ask you, I'm going to congratulate you on something. So, yeah, you birthed a book, but I think more exciting to me is you're a grandpa. I am.

Congrats. Yeah, my daughter, I guess three months old now with the baby. Wow. Already, like, already I'm singing to it. I thought you can see if the baby's already playing a guitar. Not yet, not yet, but it won't be long. I'm singing to the young lad every time I can, and he's starting to, like, really vocalize. but I'm that grandpa, man, you know, everyone tells you, oh, man, God, wait too you're a grandpa,

you're going to love that kid. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. And then it happens. And it's like, it is. Because, you know, by that point, my daughter's 30, my son's 28. So it's like, this is long ago. And now you get to kind of relive it. I can see that.

I got four kids and, you know, but there's kind of a, there's two and there's a gap and there's two. And I'm like, oh, I'm reliving it again. And I'm like, oh, next time I relive this, I'll be a great kid. grandpa. Like, and the best part of the, as you know, is in the middle of the night when the baby can't sleep or whatever, like, that's the parents' problem. Like, you get all the good stuff.

Exactly. Amazing. It's all the good stuff. And you don't have to worry about all that heavy stuff that falls on other shoulders. So congratulations on being a grandpa. What made you, Colin James, decide that you needed to write what I see is clearly, like, one in a series. Like, this is not a one and done.

This has a cliffhanger at the end. Yeah, it was a cliffhanger. Well, you know, I knew I had some, well, I know some people who have put books out. So it was kind of, have you ever thought about it? And, you know, it's a bit of a leap because something, you know, I'm a bit of a private person. I don't, you know, it's not, not every day that you want to just spill your life out like that. But, you know, over the years going gig to gig where somebody would say, well, what happened? when that happened and you'd tell this tale and they go you know you ever thought about it so

eventually I was approached about doing doing one and I started slowly I started just taking pivotal stories and and getting them down on paper and right it took a long it took a while man you know and like I think we started maybe five six years ago you know but did you map out like okay this is like the Star Wars trilogy right are you George Lucas on the whiteboard and you're like okay this is like a new hope because I read the book and then I get to the end. And I had a good understanding of the life and times of Colin James because we spent an hour and 17 minutes talking about it. But there's a lot of meat on these bones here.

And then you're sort of, you're building up and you're going to, your first album in 1988's about to drop. And then it's like, it's like the end of Back to the Future. It's just to be continued. Pretty much, right? Like, so clearly, do you map out, okay, this is going to be a trilogy? I think part of this, part of the thinking there was. that a lot of people do books about, you know,

famous people they've known or, or I think we were more concerned about, um, just the story of how, uh, how a, how a alternative lifestyle style, you know, can, can,

well, is what caused me to be a musician. My parents' love of music and, um, uh, it was more about, uh, the coming of age story of, of someone who,

um, was held bent on becoming a musician, I should say. So, okay, so I've read the book. I've got my questions. I've got my audio. I'm all set for this. Do you mind if you share the story that opens the book, just to tease everybody.

It's about Joni Mitchell coming to dinner. Yeah. Yeah. So in 1991, I used to play a guitar for a folk musician named Don Freed, and Don's still around. And Don, was my buddy

you know what I should tell me I don't have a mic stand so I'm holding this thing right because I packed up too quickly I'm feeling for you you see what happened I saw that I thought it was some spooky music I was gonna go

I was gonna go I'm bringing down that pot that ain't gonna happen again what was that music oh I didn't know it was Nick Aienes his music from a building Toronto Skyline okay so

next thing you know my my friend says I'm I'm in Bel Air and I'm used to my friend Don being in Saskatoon. And I go, what do you mean you're in Bel Air? He says, well, I had a date with Johnny Mitchell last week, you know, and now I'm down here. And I went, what?

Are you kidding me? You know, so next thing, you know, they're in Vancouver, and me and my wife get invited to go have drinks with Johnny and Don. And, you know, I'm in heaven because I adore her and she's been on the stereo since I was like five, you know, five years old. I'll bet. And she was super sweet, but it was very surreal. You know, we had a tiny little home tucked into the mountains,

and there's Joni Mitchell across from me. And it was just a trip. And my wife, we had just moved in there, and she's an incredible cook now at the time. I can't say maybe that was the case. And we had just been to Los Angeles. we had had a, we stayed at the motel called the hotel called the Rev, where we used to stay down there when we were down there.

And they served a curry chicken dish with grapes to us, a cold, like salad in a way. And so that's what she decided she was going to do with Joni, but she was going to make it a hot dish. And it was just kind of a trial by fire. And I thought, grapes and chicken. Really? Okay. You sure?

And she loved it. And we had a beautiful night, and she picked up this little guitar, which was the guitar that's on the cover of Little Big Band 1, which is a piece of craft guitar. Just awful. It looks cool. Yeah. But it's the worst.

And I thought, oh, my God, she's going to play that guitar. It's the worst. But she put her in an open tuning and sang us a song. And, you know, she ended up coming to some of my shows. And there's a picture of her holding my daughter when my daughter was two. So it's just, you know, magic, you know. There's one of those moments in life that you just can't believe is happening. That sounds like magic to me.

Now, I was thinking, what do I open with? I could open with a Colin James song. But no, we're going to open to something different because I know where I want to go off the top here. So let's listen in our headphones here. All right. It's not time to make a change. Just relax. Take it easy.

You're still young. That's your fault. There's so much you have to know Find a girl Settle down If you want You can marry Look at me

I am old But I'm happy I was once like you are now And I know that it's not easy To be calm When you found Something going on

take your time think a lot I think of everything you've got for you will still be here tomorrow but your dreams may not to explain

he turns away and the same you should see your face listening to this does this take you back oh yeah well that was my first record that my parents got me

my fifth birthday And, you know, I say in the book at one point, you know, music and memories like kicking up the dust in a forgotten room. Yeah, that, you know, your first record, man, it's such a, you know, it's yours. That's your record, you know, and it becomes such a part of your life. And that, I'm back in Regina at five, you know, instantly. You know, a lot of people have crappy first records, okay? Hey, Kat Stevens Tee for the Tillerman, you're a lucky man. Yeah, that was good.

That was good. It was a good choice. Yeah. And I'm listening to me on the headphones with you, and I'm getting all emotional. What beautiful, I didn't, what songs do I pick? Well, it's going to be father and son. Beautiful music, Kat Stevens, you're only five years old. You're in Saskatchewan.

You grew up there with music. You mentioned it earlier. Music was always around. Like, what was the music other than obviously your album here, Cat Stevens, Steve, or the Tillerman? What was the music coming out of the speakers in your house when you were growing up? Bob Dylan, a whole whack of Bob Dylan, just about every kind of, you know, everything that he had done.

Woody Guthrie, a lot of Woody Guthrie, but I was a kid. So he had kids. Dylan inspired by Woody Guthrie. Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. And Woody Guthrie is famous for his phrase on his, this guitar kills fascists, I think is what I said. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you know, Ron Hawkins from Lois to the Low.

I think he's borrowed that. It's on his guitar as well. Right, right, right. Absolutely. That, Odetta, Staples singers, the Supremes, you name it.

Mom and Dad were kind of purest folkies, and I think they lost that purest attitude as the 60s, you know, the end of the 60s came around. They went like everyone else did down the other paths, but they were pretty purest at first. And Simon and Gauphuncle, for sure, too.

So this is all folky music, just it's interesting in the origin story because you know you end up this great blues musician and we'll get to it but it's interesting what the foundation was yeah it was pretty well-rounded and we had you know I had brothers so there was the monkeys

there was you know all that stuff going on to Desmond Decker is the one that I mentioned Israelites Israelites but yeah wake up in the mona I used to love that song it was a first hit song for me where I just went oh my that might be the first hit reggae song

it was it was 007 Shanty Town? You know, this one? Desmond Decker. I don't know that one. Yeah, that's the other one I always think about that it was kind of big. But back to you, sorry. But that's different than the folk music.

That's some Jamaica, some reggae. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, it comes from all over place. You know, and growing up, we had that. Then I had an older brother, Robbie, who would listen to Hot Tuna, cream, Hendrick Santana, with the billows of weed coming up from the basement,

you know, and the fights with my mom and dad and him for, like, smoking weed in the house. And, you know, all those memories. are strong, you know. But it was like Santana Braxis, you know, that record was huge around our house too. Mostly from my brother, usually coming through the doors of a closed basement. Right.

Yeah. Now, you know, in your book, you're very vulnerable. You open up. You're very personal. And you write quite a bit about your parents' separation. And I wonder, like, do you look back and see music maybe was one way you could create some control in your life? Yeah, I guess it was, I mean, it was something I could always lean on that I knew I loved.

I think I loved it at a very young age. My mom says that she could tell by the age of three, and she would say this over and over again. She passed last year, Mom. I'm sorry. Yeah. But she said she could tell. She'd take me to a parade and my foot would just be like going right to time.

And she was always so supportive that way. She was, I mean, I think if you read the book, you realize that she, she let me take the path without hassling me. When I quit school, she didn't say, no, you can't. I mean, you know, I think the horses were out of the barn at that point. Well, speaking of your mom, glad you brought up your mom here because in spring of 77, I enjoyed reading about, it sounds like it was almost a spontaneous, like, okay, you're going to, I'm pulling you out of school, we're going to get on a Greyhound bus and we're going to hit the road

to the United States. Yeah, two months. And she'd drawn a line on a map so all the way from Vancouver to Los Angeles up through Flagstaff all the way to Wichita for a Quaker conference. So we went to a big huge Quaker conference up in Wichita.

And then down all the way through Amarillo into Arkansas where we had some Quaker friends that had a place. I remember their walnut farm, if I'm not mistaken. taken. And then all the way to New Orleans and Florida and back up through the Carolinas. And, you know, it was called the Ameripass. And you could go anywhere you wanted to for two months in the States on a Greyhound. And you know, greyhounds are always in the worst part of town.

The Greyhound station's like usually dangerous. But I loved it, man. I loved riding shotgun with the driver, which is where the song, far away like a radio, I was riding shotgun with the driver and lovers and around us came from because me and my mom would always try to get the first seat because the back of the bus was pretty rowdy and back then you could smoke on the bus you could drink on the bus as soon as the sun went down the back was a party zone you know and you hear things you shouldn't hear and but I loved it I loved it was like I love being on the road and I think it was an early chance for me to feel what that was like in spring of 77 how old are you in spring of 77.

Oh my God. Well, I'm born at 64. 13. Yeah. Yeah, 13. What a, like, what a wild experience. Only a hippie would take their kid on a trip like that. Well, mom.

Yeah, I mean, we definitely were that, you know, and I don't know if we were like, they came out of the late 50. So I think, you know, they're more, almost more like beatniks in the beginning, you know. But they were pretty forward-thinking people, my mom. mom and dad, both of them, you know? And most people wouldn't take their kid out of school a month early for fear that they were going to wreck their school, which was going to get wrecked by me soon anyway. Right. So I appreciated that. Now, what I didn't know was what she would, the whole trip was about making sure she had a relationship with me. But I think

over overarching reason was because she was going to tell me that she was going to separate with my dad. Right, right, right. Now, okay, so you're, you mentioned that your mom knew, when you were three years old. Okay, you had the music in you. But when did you? And I was going to say Colin James, but you're not Colin James yet. No.

You know, so, okay, so this is a little side track. We're going to get back, but so you're Colin Munn. Yeah, Colin James Munn, I will say. Okay, so simply you just dropped for stage name, you dropped Mun, you're Colin James Mun, you're just going Colin James. Yeah.

Okay. Drake did something similar. Okay. Right. Aubrey Drake Graham, I think, is, I see. So, you know. There you go. You Western Canadians can do it too.

Okay. So, all right. So where's the moment in your life? Because, you know, like I said, it was a lot of meat on the bones and we get to the hoodoo men and all this. But when did you realize I'm actually good at this? Like, when was that moment when you're like Colin Munn, you're looking in the mirror? Like, well, I'm actually good at this. Well, I don't know. You know, I started out pretty rough. I played pretty rough. And then it exponentially started getting better to the point where my mom and dad thought it was prudent to get me an electric. guitar, which is, I think, grade six is when they got me my electric guitar and a little secondhand Sears Vagabond amp that had natural distortion because the speaker cone was ripped. And I would just go to my room and just turn that thing up, man, and I'd play China Grove by Doobie Brothers, or I'd play Sweet Home Alabama, you know, and I was in heaven, you know, I loved it. And so that was the start of it. And then with all the folk clubs they took me to, and they took me to see live jazz too.

I just, and Regina back then, and what I kind of love about this book is it gives a little snapshot of what Regina, people think of Regina. They think of, you know, I don't know, they think of country music maybe, or they think of conservative politics. That was not the case. That was not the Regina.

I grew up in. There was a lot of counterculture. There was potters, artists, A home of the NDP, right? Social credit. I met T.C. Douglas twice with my mom growing up and got to shake his hand because my mom adored T.C. Douglas. Adored him.

And so, you know, it's a little snapshot of that city. And, you know, there was so many musicians who lent me their knowledge and really supported a young Colin. And it was so sweet. Because, you know, at that age, you're just ready to soak it in, you know. So I got good fast because people were helping me. Okay, we're going to get to some of these people. But, you know, I mentioned your Western Canada guy, like, through and through.

That's one thing for sure. You're Western Canada guy. You're here in the big smoke now, right? But Winnipeg, like, so you're talking, you're in Saskatchewan, but the role of Winnipeg in your music career and, you know, reading about the hoodoo man and everything, because there's a moment where you write about, like, you didn't want to go to Toronto. Well, it was never really, I always wanted to end up in Vancouver.

I knew that from a very young age because my grandma and grandpa lived out there and I love that. When you're from Saskatchewan and you see that mountain range around Calgary, to me it was like a gateway to the future. It was like, that's where I want to go there. But I wasn't, I couldn't go there yet. I quit school. I moved in with my first girlfriend when I was 16. I moved to Winnipeg. Try to go to alternative school because I wanted to save what maybe, you know, there's a bit of shame when you quit school. There's a bit of a, you've got to be digging ditches and there's an attitude, you know, and they're not wrong. I mean, and, you know, but to me, Winnipeg was this massive city. And again, people helped me.

There was musicians there that showed me the music I should be listening to and let me sit in at bars when I was 16, when I wasn't even allowed. They would lead me down from a room for two songs and I'd have to split, you know. So it was this great. It was a great learning ground for me. I'd spent about a year and a half there until I needed to move on again. Yeah, but Toronto, you were aiming for Vancouver. This is the Western Canadian in you.

you weren't going to go to the big smoke here? I was, but first I ended up in Montreal for about another year and a bit. Right. Okay, okay. So, and I was very broke in Montreal. It was kind of a depressing time for me because, well, I had no money, and I had to play on the street for change. And I lived in Lashim.

We lived in this crappy little apartment with cockroaches and, you know. And it was, in the language barrier was tough. was tough. But it was interesting. I sat in it with, I met French-Canadian blues musicians. I mean, it was still, it's all learning. And had I not got that call to audition for a play in Saskatoon, I might have stayed longer, but I got an audition for a,

for a musical, and I split. Running back to Saskatoon. You write a song about that. Take a note over there. All right, dear, let's get to this crazy story. And we, you know, your first time we covered this, but you go into way more details in your book. Playing the changes.

Available now? I say that I'll allow with a question mark, but I know there's a... So tomorrow, you have the Alma Combo gig. No, it's not happening now. Is that? It's being postponed until December. I wore the shirt for nothing.

Ah, yes. Come on, Colin. I need to know these things. Come on, come on. I like this shirt. You know, when I first got... They gave me the shirt, because I played the Elma Combo.

In May, I played it. I don't play any music music music, but I did a thing at the Elma Combo. And they gave me the shirt as part of the deal. And when I put it on, this is a total sidetrack. You're going to be bored to death, except I said, oh, I've grown in a gut this winter. Like, because it's a medium, it wears small. And I felt like, I felt like small. Like my belly was bursting.

I had this thing. So this is in May, okay? Yeah. So it's like, okay, I got a summer of kayaking and cycling. I'm going to stop junking. I'm here to tell you the good news is here we are talking in September. It's perfectly now. Oh, good for you.

You know, relief. Okay. So from May to September 21, and it was September 21st, and it was May 21st, and it was May 21st when I did that Elmo Shamed. So June, July, August, September. Four months, we're in good shape now. Nice. I don't think I've ever walked in the doors of the Alma combo person. I don't think

I ever have. That's a mind blow. I've been to the Trubidor in L.A., but I've not been to the Elmocombo. I got to play the Trubodore a few years ago. It was the best, man, because we got to sound check and you got to walk around the whole place and realize that Elton John and all these people. I loved it. Okay, well, we got to get you to get you to the Elmo at some point here.

That's where the Stone's played as the cock the cockroaches. You said cockroaches when you were living in there in Montreal. All right, you're 18 years old, Colin. Colin Munn, if that is your real name. Okay, you are 18 years old. You get a day's notice, put together a band and open for Stevie Rayvon.

Stevie Ray Vaughan. So when you get that call, give us some insight, what were you thinking? You got to put a band together in 24 hours and open for Stevie Rayvon. Yeah. It was a complete surprise.

I shouldn't even be in there. I was supposed to be in Vancouver, but I went home just to take a breather because I was living alone out, you know, in Vancouver and playing in this band. So I just wanted a break. So I went home for a break. My mom said, oh, someone phoned. Somebody phoned from, like, asked for you and said that they, you know, you know them.

And could you, there's a gig, some kind of gig. And I went, okay, is there a number? And I phoned the number. And they said, can you be in Saskatoon tomorrow by, 530 with a band. And I'd been, I'd left town a long time ago. So I phoned everyone I knew and nobody could do it. So I, I almost, I mean, I didn't know what to do.

And I phoned the Regina Jazz Society and asked if they had a drummer and a bass player that could swing because not everyone can shuffle, you know, you take a, you might take a jazz guy. And they were a lot older than I was. Well, you're 18. Everyone's older. Exactly. Exactly. And they showed up and they thought we were playing like a wedding downstairs in like the convention room. And I said, no, we're upstairs in the big room, my friends. You know, we've got to rehearse. So we went and started rehearsing this Stevie bus in the room. And, you know, I was a fan. I knew exactly who Stevie was. Believe me, I'd been listening to that first record, Texas flood like over and over and over again. So it was a thrill and nerve-wracking. And I had no manager and I had no manager. no second guitar and a band that barely knew me.

And we get out there and I broke two strings right away and I had no idea what to do because I had no guitar tech. I'm not going to go change a string right now. There's 2,200 people out there. So I hid behind a, I did what any normal person would do, hide behind a PA stack and freak out. And his people went and grabbed one of Stevie's guitar, threw it on me. And Stevie enjoyed it. and got me up for the encores, and then I did the same thing the next night in Regina.

And now it's my hometown. So all the kids that I went to high school with are in the audience, you know, and some of my family. And it was just, it was mind-blowing. I mean, it was- Completely. Yeah. You're 18. Yeah.

I'm walking up. You're opening for Stevie Rave-on. Well, and he's getting me up at the end of the night to play with him. So it was, it was just the best. And, you know, the ironic thing was it came from me being some of the, Well, I was laid off from this band I was in because I was a little green. The guy liked me, the leader, but he wanted someone a little more season for this thing that was coming up. So he let me go, which hurt my feelings, but, you know, you roll with it.

I thought, okay, well, I'm sitting around here watching it. I might as well go home and say hi to the family, you know, and that was the idea. And then that happened. So it's just, you know, a little lesson in, you know, you never know. You never know what's coming around the court. Coonerty Knox. That's it. Yeah.

Yeah. That, to me, it's unbelievable. Now, just, you know, we'll talk about, you know, the mentorship by Stevie Ray Vaughn, but does he, does he change the way you play guitar? Well, I think he changed the way everyone play guitar because he was, you know, he could play like all your, all the greats. He rolled all the greats into one, into one great player. Like, he could play like Freddie King.

He could play like Albert King. He could play like Otis Rush. could play like buddy guy. And he had the taste. You know, a lot of people have the speed and have the technical prowess, but to have that and have the soul. And that's what Stevie had in spades, you know. And so it was incredible.

What made it even more credible is a year later, I got the call again. And I had to put a band together at the last minute, again, from different people completely. Now I'm playing with Eventonians and Calgarians. Well, the Eventonians did both of those shows. And that's what really cemented, you know, Stevie at that point said, hey, you know, I'd like you to come down to this festival down in the States.

Come see us. We're playing with Bonnie Ray and Jackson Brown and all these people. And then I got to the border with my ticket and they wouldn't let me over the border. It was just heartbreaking because that was happening the next day, so I missed it. And I had to bug Stevie for another, I had to bug his secretary, E.D. Johnson. I had to bug her for another ticket, and I felt like, oh, my God, Stevie's going to think I'm an idiot for not getting over the border, you know, and it was like, I always get, I would always get tongue tied when I, I would phone Stevie sometimes, and I would never sound like me because I was so nervous to talk to him. I, I'm Mr. Stevie. Like I'd say stupid stuff because I, you know.

Right. You were, yeah, you were trying to hurt. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I know that feeling, okay? Some say it's a constant. But, okay, so there's a reference in the book to a mojo hand. What's a mojo hand? It's a charm. It's a southern, you know, African-American charm.

Black Cat Bone, you know, all the blues references John the Conqueror route or John the Conqueror root. It's a little kernel of a thing. And all these little things are put in. It's a potion, basically. And it worked. Well, someone had given it to Stevie, and Stevie put it in my hands and said, just hold on this for a minute.

Right. It sounds like an episode of Karate Kid or something. I know it's ridiculous, but it happens. But did you get to keep that? No, no, no, no. Just for the show. Just before the show was that was sound check. And I remember sitting across from him.

Oh, Joe Hand, yeah. And he played some stuff right in front me. And I said, could you do that again? And he said, no. He wouldn't let me see it again. But he was so kind. And, you know, he was kind to Jeff Healy. He was kind to me.

He was kind to Ronnie Baker Brooks out of Chicago. He was kind of Bernard Ellison. I wasn't the only one. But it changed my life. Absolutely. So here we are talking about Stevie today. And when you think about Stevie, like, what is the thing you miss the most about him?

Well, I mean, I think what people don't realize. And often when someone's canonized and people forget about the humanity, you know, and he was just a funny, kind person. You know, he was quick to laugh and just a really good-hearted person, you know. So that's what I think about, you know, and, you know, unfortunately, as you know, I had to end up at his funeral and that was tough, you know. It shocked everybody. It's one of those moments. Where were you in? I remember where I was. I was working at the C&E. Yeah, right. I remember getting the news. Yeah. Yeah, I had just finished a show with a woman

named Michelle Malone from Atlanta, Georgia. We just played Portland. And I was supposed to have a vacation along the Oregon coast with my, my girlfriend at the time, well, who was now my wife. And then I got the call at like six or five in the morning from my manager, and it was just devastating. And I was supposed to play with him in the Hammersmith, the Odian, the next week in London, England. and a while ago I did a search to see if I could find the poster. I found it. Okay. Yeah.

Special guest, Colin James, Hammer-Smithodeon with Steve Raymond. Wow. But, you know, end up flying to Dallas for the funeral and all that. So you're being mentored by Stevie before his untimely passing? And at what moment do you realize? And like, oh, I need to start my own band. Well, it was, that, I mean, that had already happened. And so, you know, some time went by.

I played with those other players. And as soon as the playing with Stevie thing happened, I started getting calls from managers, you know. And, hey, would you like to, you know, I work out of here. I work with Katie Lang. Are you interested? And da, da, da, da, da. And, you know, we put together a band and started criss-crossing the country

back when you used to play a club for a week at a time. My first time at the horseshoe, I played from Monday to Saturday. Well, I was reading about your time because I'm wearing the Elmo shirt. I was reading about your time playing the horseshoe. Do you remember that first night? Oh, my God. Well, you know, I was so excited to be playing Toronto, first of all. It was my first time.

Right. And to play the horseshoe, which I, you know, started realizing was this kind of iconic thing. I guess even then, because of stomping Tom Conners and all this history. Then the Gary's. There's a whole history there. Exactly. And I remember X-ray because he would be hanging around. But he was a friend of Dan Aykroyds.

You know, but, you know, we went in on Monday, and there was no huge pressure because we were relatively unknown. So, but the way they used to book you, you know, you could have nobody there on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, because you knew by Thursday you, the word of mouth would start getting out. People had fun at your show. And that doesn't happen anymore. You know, you don't get that chance to hone your craft like you could back then,

or at least get a second chance to have some people show up, which is obviously good. Well, there's a famous story in Toronto of the, the police. So just before Roxanne breaks, the police are playing the horseshoe. This is a Gary's presentation. And depending who you ask, there was somewhere between 8 and 15 people at the horseshoe to see the police.

Right. So, yeah, so you met your first night. Then I don't know how many people do you think you had to guess. Probably 20. Well, you beat,

you know, sting there in the guys. But you get 20 people there the first night. And by your last night, what do you think? Lineups. Yeah, we had a lot of them. Around the corner.

You know, and this is, Don't forget, I'm pretty new to this at this point. Like, I'm still not... Well, you're still super young. This is the wild thing about this book. It ends in 88. It's, oh, he's still a kid.

But five long years had blown up on the radio. This is before I got a major record deal, because it was a single, a two-sided single. So five long years on one side, why'd you lie on the other side? Just going to bring it in because I haven't loaded up here. And this... This is a significant song in the, you know, the career of Colin James. So just a taste of this. because you wrote this song.

When you hear it now, what are you thinking as you hear it in the headphones? Just how young my voice sounds. Well, yeah. Young person, young voice. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know. So in Toronto, I'm trying to, because I lived this,

I'm old enough, I was around when you were breaking. And Q107 was playing a lot, Colin James at the time, Q and O7. And this was one of the songs on high rotation on Q and, It was five long years. Is this the first song you wrote? Yeah, well, no. I had written a few with this like...

Print the legend, Colin. With this like New Wave Band or punk band that I was in back in Regina. They were terrible. I would hate anyone to ever hear them. Oh, you played a Bert Bergman, right? Like on a state, it's open for our Bergman. We were open for the young Canadians and Art Bergman. And, you know, it was, you know, it was great because it got me in front of people.

Okay. I always felt like a bit of a fraud because I was more. of it. It's imposter syndrome. Yeah, I felt more like I came from a folk background. So here I was trying to pretend I was this punk. Yeah, but you're blues legend from a folk background. You could have thrown some punk.

Well, whatever the case was. You know. So this is the first song, this style that you wrote, five long years. And Bob Rock produced it. So before I even had a record deal, I got one of these legendary producer in his prime, which probably didn't hurt. I remember sitting with Bob and writing.

the bridge because we didn't have a bridge. It's just instrumental, but we needed another part. And I had to learn that kind of thing, you know. So I was very lucky to get Bob at the time. And the song really took off. I mean, took everyone by surprise. Did it take you by surprise? Oh, absolutely.

I was living in low-income housing. Yeah. You know, I would go to a confectionery near my thing, and I'd hear my song on the radio. I was going to buy a pack of smokes. I go, oh, my God, that's my son. Do you remember the first time he heard it on the radio? It was in a confectionery.

It was like literally, it was in Gastown. There was a little confectionery around the street from the Savoy. I lived right across from the Savoy, which was a... Is that where the clock is? Yeah, there's a clock to, but that's farther down the road. That's further down the road. You know the... I've been to this neighborhood.

Do you know the wedgy one? There's a wedgy apartment building. I remember, I actually remembered, like, from my... my time and not, I haven't much time there, but I did a couple of trips of Vancouver. I remember that was like, that was a neighbor, this gas town neighborhood I thought was super cool. Yeah. Like I dug the vibe of the gas town. Yeah.

It was pretty, it's a little, either side of it got pretty seedy. You had to watch where you went. Yeah. But I lived there for like a year and some. So I went from, you know, not having a dime or at least, well, it's not like I made money. No, that's not the point. I went, it became real pretty quickly, you know. Well, you're on the radio.

I'm on the radio. And were you, like, did you have a video yet? No, no, no, no, no, no music. Not at all. Okay. No, what? And why'd you lie? Right.

You know, that slow blues we did, that, you know, I would assume they would have never played the intro because it's so long. Well, you can talk over it, but I remember them, again, back to Q107 at the time. Q107 played the heck out of this, too. And at the time, I didn't know it was a cover. Right. You know, how many, often back then, without the internet and stuff, it's like, I just thought it was another Colin James. joined. I thought it was fucking cool. It's a very good song and it was written by Morgan Davis who's a, you know, lives in Canada now, but it was from St. Louis originally.

And, uh, me and my first manager picked this song and went in with Bob and, and, and, uh, we did this big long intro and I thought they would have cut it for sure. And it was a radio edit. It was so exciting that they didn't, you know, I couldn't believe it. And I couldn't believe it did as well as it did. It builds, right? It just adds to the whole vibe. I dig it, man. contemporary. You know, this song's complex because the words are dead simple. The words are dead simple. The song is dead simple, but somehow it's contemporary. You know, it's rooted in the blues, but there's something contemporary about it. You can't quite put your finger on. And I was very lucky to have picked it because it's,

I still play it now, you know. I'd hate to know how many times I've played it. It's been a lot. But I can still pull it. I can still pull the emotion out if I, you know. Yeah. So you got five long years, Colin James Joint, if you will. You got this great cover here. Like, you're building this thing. I got another jam.

I'm going to play in a second here. But at what point do you make, like, when do you make your first video? Well, not until I got signed. So there was a woman named Nancy Jeffries who, worked at A&M Records in L.A. She was interested in signing me, but she couldn't sign me until she left that label and ended up working for the new Fledging Virgin Records America, which Richard Branson had just started in Los Angeles.

So I got, so she came up to the town pump, which was a very great local club, which is now defunct, sadly. And she, I knew at table there were going to be, six. sitting at. So I jumped on, halfway through the night, I jumped on the record company table and hammed it up and got signed within about, I don't know, a few weeks later and got flown to LA. So now I'm in having, you know, lunch at the Ivy on Robertson in Los Angeles with Robert De Niro behind me, you know, it was mind-blowing. And the only other people on the label was Keith Richards, pop and I.

So this is this brand new label. The office wasn't any, it was so small. It was about as big as this like a little area we're in. And there's a lady at the front and then like an A&R guy, an A&R woman, and the president. I mean, that was it. Right. You know, it was really exciting. Later on, they opened up this big massive thing and Janet Jackson was now on it.

And I wasn't allowed to park in the parking lot anymore. That's bullshit. That's called classism. But do not look at. Janet. Do not look at her. But, so, you know, it was incredibly exciting. By the way, the driver who drove me here today

was telling me about, oh, I drove Margaret Atwood or whatever we were talking. I'm fine. She lives in Toronto, no big deal. He was telling me a story about driving Iggy Pop. Like, this was a story I got from the driver that drove me here today. So shout out to Iggy Pop. Right, right, right. You know, and then next, you know, so we had to go and start a record, and they picked Tom Dowd as my first

producer and Tom. Tom was a legend. He had done Inagata de Vita. He had done records for Aretha Franklin as an engineer for Atlantic. He had work with Eric Clapton. On paper, him and I should have been just a shoe-in.

But it turned out we just didn't get along. We got along surface-wise. It wasn't like we didn't get along. Right. But he didn't want me to play any blues. He thought I was wasting my time. And I get it. He had done it with all, he'd already worked with Eric Clapton on three or four.

He, I think in me he saw, I need to be pop. You don't want to be the blues guy because I, you know, he's going to relegate you to the blues bin. I want you to do pop music. So he wasn't wrong. I mean, it's not like I'm pointing fingers out. I'm saying, you, you know, but the fact was we ended up at kind of odds. Logger heads.

Logger heads. And it didn't go well. and I had to extricate myself. I had to phone my manager and go, you've got to get me out of here. Interesting. So that was weird because here I have this legend. Yeah.

And we're not getting along, and we're not getting stuff on tape. We were having trouble. So we had to start all over again in Los Angeles with Danny Kortchmar, the guitar player of many years for James Taylor. And, but it ended up being the right thing to do. And the record eventually came out and ended up doing very well. I'll say. Well, you wrote a book about it here.

Okay. So one more jam, though, because I'm taking every one of my 60 minutes, Scott was, so it says you get Colin James for 60 minutes. I'm taking every second. But I just want to ask you a question about this jam right here. So we talked about five long years, your big jam, the tent pole, if you will. Why'd You Lie? And another Colin James joint.

It's wild to read in your book that they thought that title was way too close to Jimmy Hendrix's voodoo child. Yeah, yeah, and I put a kibash on that. Good for you. So out of desperation comes inspiration. We didn't have enough songs. We know we had Y July. We knew we had five long years. Right.

I had written some others too. But we were short, another single. Yep. And we were in Miami. We were young and in Miami So I was staying with my We were like I was rooming with my buddy In the South Beach area of Miami

Which was just a fledging Trendy place to go at the time And you'll hear you know way down south with a mangroves girl Well I never heard of mangroves until I got to Miami So that's why that's in there And I wrote this song in my hotel room Out of desperation like I got a I got to make this work.

I got to have a hit. So we got this jam going, I brought it to Tom. And Tom says, well, yeah, but I think you could, you should sing it like poke salad Annie. Like, I want you to whisper the lyric like, way down south, where that way. And I went, I don't know, man.

Like, I want to shout this thing, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So I tried, I tried to appease him. I whispered it like Tony Joe White might. And I just went, Tom, I don't know, man. I think I need to shout the sucker, you know. And he didn't agree.

And I extricated myself. We did it again in Los Angeles with Danny Kortchmark. So none of this was done in Miami. This was all done in L.A. Right. And that was a joy, too, because I got to meet Little Feet, just because they were there when I was there. So I got to meet all Little Feet.

Richie Hayward, the drummer, and all those guys. But there you go. I mean, I knew in my heart that that's the way the song should have been sung. And I think I was right. No, your instincts were bang on, man. You got to trust those instincts. Good for you to, you know what, at that age, you're still kid. You're still young.

It would be easy to just, you know, yes, sir, whatever you say, sir. I'm happy to be here, whatever. Even my manager said, you know, everyone's going to think you're trying to cop, cop Jimmy Henricks and I said I just don't think that's true I didn't I didn't think it at the time that's for sure I mean it doesn't sound anything like the song so it's voodoo thing and voodoo child like what all songs of voodoo in the title belong to Jimmy no big deal I mean I that's what I felt and I think I was proven right at the end of the day all right a little mop up here just before we say goodbye one is you were nominated for a Casby Award do you have any recollection of CF and Y 102.1 nominating you for a Casby Award I do and they were so good to me those, I mean, that, they played me so much. It was so awesome. And I do remember that. What was the category?

I don't even remember now. See, funny, that station went through some changes at this point, but they were like spirit of radio with David Marsden through 87. And it was called the you knows. Right, yeah. Then they rebrand Casby Wars, Canadian artists selected by you. And there's a period of time where they're adding in more like top 40 mainstream stuff. Like they call it the mistake of 88 is what they call it.

And then they've kind of, I guess, in the early, they add in more alternative of a guy named Reiner Schwartz comes in, shout out to Bradley funeral home. And then in about 91, they realized, oh, grunge is here. We're going hard here. And it was just like, you know, Pearl Jam Nirvana,

whatever, you know, alt rock stuff, whatever. Yeah. Grungy stuff or whatever. You definitely stopped playing Colin James. You didn't fit in there with Stone Temple pilots or whatever. Right, right, right, right. But that's so just an interesting thing that you were not made for that, but the,

The category I know is your Juno because you won for most promising mail. Yeah, that's right. Where's your Juno today? They're in the basement. So how many you got? Eight. Good for you. Yeah.

You're dominating me of the category. That's the trick. We used to have these science fairs. You probably had them too, but science and you had categories, right? And I remember they always said if you take the statistics slash math category, you'll probably win because nobody would do it. Like it's like, you know what I mean? You got to pick the category and just dominate that category.

You stack the deck, though. Eight of those things. They're in your where? Your basement? In my basement. They're in my basement, yep. Okay, at least you haven't put them in store it. I don't put them on the mantel piece.

Why not, though? Well, I just don't. Would you put them on the mantel piece if they were Grammys? I don't think so. Okay, because you hesitated for a moment there. No, I don't think I would because I've seen people do that, and I don't like it. You find it's a, you're, too cocky, too much swagger?

Look at my awards. I'm great. I don't know. I just, you know, it's just not. You're just a kid from Saskatchewan. Yeah, it's just, I don't know. You're in it for the art. I'm very pleased that I did. I know people who haven't, and I feel, and I know, and I know I've been very lucky that way. And, you know, it's not, it's not a measure of how, you know, it's a bit of luck and a bit of a fortune.

But it's not, it's not the be all end all of a career. If you, this is a trick closing question. We're going to see how smart you are, okay? It's not about education, it's about intelligence here. Okay. Uh-uh. If you could sit down with that 18-year-old kid, the night before he opened for Stevie Ray Vaughn, okay,

what would you tell him now? Oh, my God. I don't know what I, I don't know, you know, I don't know what to say because, you know, Stevie Ray, Vaughn might not have, that all might not have happened. You know, I could have played everything exactly like I did, and maybe Stevie wasn't the way Stevie was.

Maybe he wouldn't have been so giving, I think I say in the book, he had that extra bandwidth. And it's true, he was so good. He wasn't threatened or by anybody. And he had that, you know, he had that in him because his talent was, ridiculous.

Yeah. But, you know, I guess, you know, if I could, someone could have told me that, you know, keep doing what you're doing, plow ahead, don't take no for an answer, and make it your life. You know, that's what I guess I would say. And sing voodoo thing, like you're yelling that sucker. That's, don't listen to the...

Don't listen to the band. Don't listen to the man. So now it's, I just, curious, it's come back to you that, how many years ago was that again? Eight years ago, you were in some basement. And we had a similar convo. Now we're in a whole different environment. But this is your return to Toronto Mike. Yes.

We had a sequel. Nice. Speaking of sequels, your book. Like I joked earlier, it plays out like a part one in a series. Okay. That book sets up a sequel. sequel, like no other book I've ever read. Have you started the next book yet? I haven't. You know, I feel like we've just, I just did the audio book for this one. Right. It's been a process.

I had a lot going on in my life this year. My daughter had a baby. Right. My son got married. Congrats to him. Yes. Yes. Thoughts going on in your life. But you, you, you did this, Colin James. You decided to close this. 1988. It's August 98 when you, sorry, 88. August 88, when this book is winding down. So you know, you owe us another one. Yeah, well, we'll see. We'll see how, we'll see how this one does. And when you do, you know, when you do drop this second book,

you're coming back on Toronto, Wayne. Of course I am. And I'll recognize you this time. But you'll keep your hair the same. In all fairness, you've got to keep your hair the same. If you can grow it, you should show it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, thanks for doing this, buddy.

I loved it. And I love some once in a while, I got to. get out of my basement. Nice. It's exciting. I see Scott over here. He sent a driver to get me here. So I appreciate this, Colin.

Make sure we get a photo before you disappear. You bet. I don't have a tree here, but we'll figure this out, everybody. Got it. And that brings us to the end of our 1,976th show, 1976. Go to TorontoMike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs.

And much love to all who made this possible. Again, that's Great Lakes Brewery. Palma Pasta, Micahini's, Recycle MyElectronics.C.A., and Ridley Funeral Home. I got to go to my calendar. I'm not even sure who's up next in my... Oh, you know what?

I don't have internet, so I'll let me... Kathy Young. Okay. Next guest on Toronto Mike is Kathy Young. Then there's a top secret jam kicking by an FOTM whose birth year corresponds with the number of the episode. And then there's a favor drive deep dive.

deep dive, and then an episode of Jane Eastwood, all about God's spell. Lots of good stuff coming up. Don't you dare miss it.