Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Crash Test Dummies: Toronto Mike'd #1221

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

In this 1221st episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Brad Roberts and Ellen Reid from Crash Test Dummies and the band's beginning, Superman's Song, Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm, Androgynous, Peter Pumpkinhead and more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

To be quite honest with you, I think that's one of the sort of most stupid questions you can ask somebody. Because where does your voice come from? I mean, of course, everyone's voice comes from wherever it comes from. Who fucking knows? Welcome to episode 1221 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA.

Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees From Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville Electronic Products Recycling Association Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past And Redley Funeral Home means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Redley Funeral Home, pillars of this community since 1921.

Joining me today, making their Toronto Mike debuts, are Brad Roberts and Ellen Reed from Crash Test Dummies. Well, welcome, Brad. Welcome, Ellen, to Toronto Mic'd. Thank you for having us. Whereabouts are you in the world right now? Maybe we'll start with you, Brad. Where do I find you today? I am at home in New York City after just finishing a month-long tour of the east coast of America and parts of the Midwest. How long have you been living in New York City? Oh, let's see, since the late 90s. Okay. Do you ever bump into like Carol Pope when you're just walking the streets?

I have not bumped into Carol Pope. No, I cannot claim that. Okay. I hear it's a big city. Maybe you missed her. Okay. Ellen, whereabouts do we find you today? Well, you know, it's funny you should mention Carol Pope. I live in Toronto and I used to live in a building that Carol Pope lived in. So I would see her on a fairly regular basis. So just saying. Carol Pope is owned by New York. That's wild. Well, I'm buddies with Rob Pruce, who was keyboardist with Spoons,

and he does some work with Carol, and he lives in New York. So now I just imagine, he's always talking about bumping into Carol, and then I just imagine everyone in New York City bumps into Carol. But I have to ask you, Ellen, if you're in Toronto, why are you not sitting here at this table right now? Why are you on Zoom? It's part of my parole. I'm actually not allowed podcasters to be anywhere near a podcaster

for five years after the incident. Well, may I ask what neighborhood? You don't have to be too specific. Don't worry, I'm not going to show up and start throwing stones at your window, but what neighborhood are you in? I'm in the beaches. Okay, you're on the other side of the world. I'm in

South Etobicoke. Ah, hey. Hello, Ellen, on the other side of the city. So I think it's fine to have you guys on. I know you're a Winnipeg band, of course, but I'm actually having another Winnipeg band on next week. I have the Watchmen on the program. So I think it's fine to have you guys on. I know you're a Winnipeg band, of course, but I'm actually having another Winnipeg band on next week. I have the Watchmen on the program. Any, any Watchmen stories? I know you were a little bit ahead of them.

Ahead of them. We were coming up in Winnipeg around the same time. Like we played the spectrum and the Winnipeg circuit same time they, they did. We're just actually older than they are, that's all. That's the only difference. Well, they look older, for what it's worth. They're still young spring chickens. Brad, do you have any Watchmen stories before we dive into the crash test dummy story?

I used to talk to the lead singer at the Spectrum Cabaret occasionally after his shows. Danny Graves. Yes. And Danny was always a really good guy. You can probably hear New York in the background there. I was going to say, are you on the street right now, Brad? Are you in the background there. I was going to say, are you on the street right now, Brad? Are you in the middle of... No, as you can see, I'm in my cozy den here with all my books.

Well, I love the sounds of the active city, so let's get on beyond background noise. But now, Brad, I want to address this 800-pound gorilla in the room. Hey, I'm working on it where did that voice come from like did you just like one day you woke up and you're like you sounded like brad roberts like where does that voice come from um well my grandfather had a very deep voice it used to shake the floorboards, as my father would say. And I believe I inherited it from him.

Actually, to be quite honest with you, I think that's one of the sort of most stupid questions you can ask somebody because where does your voice come from? I mean, of course, everyone's voice comes from wherever it comes from. Who fucking knows? Now, listen, I asked Jeff Woods that same question, and he told me about how he started drinking his vodka and smoking his cigarettes at eight years old to get his voice.

So you never know. Oh, well, that was a good answer. Probably a better answer than mine. Mine did suddenly change at an early age. But I felt it was a handicap because it meant I couldn't sing along to any song on the radio. Everything was above my range. So I sounded pathetic.

I'll bet you were probably stuck with like the Grinch soundtrack or something. Yes, exactly. That or church music. And you totally killed church music and the Grinch soundtrack. You killed it, exactly. That or church music. And you totally killed church music in the Grinch soundtrack. You killed it, Brad. You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch. That's perfect. That's perfect. I will absolutely be excited to speak with you about your new single, Sacred Alphabet.

In fact, I'm going to play some of it. But first, we're going to go back. I'm going to just shout out a listener named Matt Layden. And actually, throughout this conversation, I have questions that came in from fans of yours who are listeners of this program. I like this question from Matt because this is the first time in 11 years

that Matt Layden sent me a question that had nothing to do with a sports media personality. That's the first time. And I got it. And I thought, wow, like his question on Twitter was high Toronto, Mike,

I just wanted to know how the crash test dummies got started. So would you guys mind maybe, uh, Ellen, maybe, or Brad, I don't care who wants to be quarterback here, but,

uh, give me the, uh, crash test dummies origin story. Well, we started out as sort of the host band at an after-hours club in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Brad had a few people that he played with, and he needed a keyboard player backup singer,

so a friend of a friend said, I know someone, and we started playing together we were just doing tv theme songs country songs Irish folk songs it was just for fun um and then Brad got this notion that he wanted to write original material and so he started writing um some some original stuff and we thought it might be fun to maybe play the folk festival circuit, Western Canada kind of thing. So we sent a demo trick, demo tape around and that got the attention of, uh, of some music industry people. And, uh,

it all kind of came together very quickly and out of the blue and unexpected. Um, so basically horseshoes right up our ass. You know, we're very fortunate. Brad and Ellen, this is exciting. This is a small world story because coincidentally, before I even booked this episode here with you guys, I had Richard Flohill in my basement here chatting me up last week. He's a big part of why we're talking to you today.

What would you say? So he'll be listening, but he essentially, I'll put it in a nutshell, Richard Flohill takes full, complete credit for you guys getting a record deal. Well, Richard Flohill is partly right. I sent

Richard Flohill a demo tape of Crash The Done Means material, hoping to play a festival that he used to book in Toronto. And he heard it and thought it was great. And when the Canadian music industry had their annual event in Winnipeg that year, Richard Flohill basically chatted up all the A&R guys on the airplane on the way in Winnipeg that year Richard Flo Hill basically chatted up all the ANR guys on the airplane on the way to Winnipeg and said you got to listen to crash test dummies out of all the acts that are at this at this event we're doing you know this is going to be the one that you should be most interested in and this created a kind of

label war and that and we were courted by many a Canadian label it ended up boiling down to BMG versus Capitol Records and we ended up going with BMG. So Richard Flohill definitely played a role. For him to take total credit for it is, of course, perhaps not untypical of what we see often in the music business. It's fine by me. Richard Flohill can take all the credit. It was you. Funny. Richard Foyle can take all the credit.

This man... This man who's turning 89 in June tells me he hasn't had a single vegetable since he was 14 years old. Wow. So I don't know what this nonsense is. Veggies, eat your veggies. Veggies are good for you. I'm looking at Richard, like hasn't touched a vegetable since he was 14. He doesn't even have tomatoes.

Like he won't have anything that he thinks is a vegetable. Turning 89 years old. Really? Clearly it gave him great taste in music if not a good colon. Right. And now where did you get your voice, Ellen? Now I'm curious. I got it online.

Alibaba. It was a great deal. Hold on, I'm writing this down because I've been looking, Alibaba. It was a great deal. Hold on, I'm writing this down because I'm looking for a new voice. So I just want to write this down here. All right, thank you, Matt Layden, for your first ever non-sports media question. By the way, Bad Brad Roberts and the St. James Rhythm Pigs, that was the name of the band before you switched names?

That was a name cooked up by the drummer that I was working with at the time who happened to need to place an ad one week and without my permission used my name in that way, which I frankly resented and still do. Never let that go. Are you kidding me? Who came up with crash test dummies?

This medical student friend of ours, Casper. What was Casper's last name, Ellen? Do you remember? No idea. Casper the friendly idiot. Casper the friendly medical student. Casper the friendly medical student. Casper, the friendly medical student.

He was a medical student and he was watching these movies on crash test dummies and he told us about the movies and we thought it would be a cool idea to offer and we were

all at a rehearsal and we all thought it was a good name. So we just... And you have to remember that we didn't think that we were going to get a record deal. We were just playing an after-hours club for fun. We didn't think that we were going to have to live with the Dave Krasnowski zombies for 35 years. Yeah, that's very true. It's a fad.

Who wrote Superman's song? How did Superman's song come to be? Quick as a cat in the jungle But Clark Kent, no, there was a real gent He would not be caught sitting around in no jungle scheme Dumb as an ape doing nothing Superman never made any money For saving the world from Solomon Grundy And sometimes I despair The world will never see

another man like him Hey Bob, Sue had a straight job Even though he could have smashed any bank in the United States he had the strength

but he would not folks said his family were all dead the planet crumbled But Superman He forced himself to carry on Forget Krypton And keep going

Superman never made any money Saving the world from Solomon Grundy And sometimes I despair The world will never see another man Like him Tarzan was king of the jungle And Lord of all the apes But he could hardly string together

Four words I Tarzan Eugene Sometimes when soup was stopping Christ I'll bet he was tempted to

just quit and turn his back on man Join Tarzan He was tempted to just quit and turn his back on men Join Tarzan in the forest But he stayed in the city Kept on changing clothes and dirty old phone booths Till his work was through Had nothing to do but go home Superman never made any money

He saved the world from a sovereign bondage And sometimes I despair The world will never see another man Like him And sometimes I despair The world will never see another man Like you Superman's song, believe it or not,

was the first song I ever wrote when I decided to sit down and become a songwriter. And it went extremely well for me because it turned into a big hit for us, obviously. I wrote it in my parents' house, for God's sake. I stayed with my parents for a long time after I graduated from high school because I spent five years in university. years in university. those years,

during those years, I didn't want to take out a student loan, and I couldn't afford to pay rent, so I just stayed at home. And your mom made wicked sandwiches. She did make wicked sandwiches. What kind of sandwiches, Ellen, do you remember? No. I was never allowed to have sandwiches at Brad's place.

That's funny. You need a wicked bologna and cheese whiz sandwich. You know what? I actually, I was raised on bologna. I haven't seen a slice of bologna in decades, but like if I think back, I would like a bologna sandwich right now. Would you guys mind?

I'm going to go get a bologna sandwich. Arf. I know, it sounds terrible terrible i don't know it's it's uh but it's a you know it's part of my sandwich nostalgia tour so i'm working on here all right so superman song big canadian hit so i'm curious because we're going to talk about a big american hit that you guys have of course coming up with the next album but uh But why wasn't Superman's song a big American hit? Do you have any thoughts on that? That song, what, their ears are different?

That was a big jam in this country. Yeah, you know, I'm not sure why that is. Because the opposite happened with our next song, which got flushed down the toilet in the Canadian music industry and then took root in Atlanta, Georgia, and became a hit in America. Big hit, right? Number four, I think, in the Billboard charts, but a huge hit.

Number two, my friend, number two. Short charts, but huge hit. Number two, my friend. Number two. Shortchanging you. My apologies. Quite all right. And I do remember watching Conan O'Brien at night, and he would do his, like, mm-mm-mm imitation. Like, he would be, you know, parodying it on late-night TV. It was just omnipresent everywhere.

Yeah, and you know who else did that was Howard Stern. He used to read my lyrics out loud on the air and then play the song and then play it again a second time. Like it was insane. Right, right, right. Now, did you guys ever get on the Howard Stern show? Yeah. As soon as he started playing our song and talking about me every day

on the freaking show, then suddenly the record company wanted me to fly to New York immediately, and I went on a show. He was gentle with me. I was grateful. Was Ellen there? No. Again, in terms of parole. That's great.

You're training orders. It's great. Now, okay, where are your Juno Awards right now? If I said, produce the Juno Award for me that you got in 1992 for Group of the Year, where would you find it? Mine is sitting on the piano of my father's

basement. Okay. At least you know where it is. Ellen, where's your Juno? How come I don't see it in the background there? It's in a cupboard with the other awards. I don't want to decorate Um, it's in a cupboard. With the other room.

I don't want to decorate my home with my awards the same way that I don't put up huge portraits of myself in this room. The other room is full of portraits of me. But they're not the same thing. Like the portraits of yourself is narcissism. But the awards, you should be proud of these awards right absolutely and totally thrilled and honored that we got those awards and i'm not being facetious here um but when i have people over i don't want my awards sitting around you know it it's weird i haven't thrown them away i keep them i know they're there i have those memories, but I don't need to display them.

I used mine for a doorstop in my recording studio for a while. Okay. And that impressed people, generally speaking. Well, I'll never win a Juno, so if I did win a Juno, I think a doorstop is a good functional purpose for it. Absolutely. I think you could win a Juno. You should call up Jan Arden and maybe do a duet. Yes. I have Jan. So Jan was in a movie this past

winter with my very good friend Stu Stone. It's called Bandits. And it was filmed. You ready for this? It was filmed in Winnipeg. Awesome. Really? True story. It's great. Oh, that's Jan Arden. Jan's great she is she's

freaking hilarious too as well as the other well you guys are you guys if you guys

music doesn't work out for you I feel like you two could be a comedy duo you guys really compliment each other nicely

well thank you like Wayne and Schuster okay you ready for this? Stu Stone, I don't know why it's all about Stu Stone, but Stu Stone, who directed this movie that Jan Arnon was in, he used to play, whenever they needed a little kid in Wayne and Schuster, he would play the little kid.

Really? Yeah. No, I'm dead serious, yeah. That's a true story. That's the coolest thing ever. I know, I know. He was in Donnie Darko aso as like Jake Gyllenhaal's friend that's his I know anyway enough about Stu Stone okay let's talk about me for a couple of

minutes please nobody all right so I'm out of order I want to just reset for a moment here so the album with Superman's song on it of course that is uh The Ghosts That Haunt Me. I own this on CD and I loved this. I'm going to ask you about another song on that album in two seconds. So that's the one, the big Canadian success breakthrough for Crash Test Dummies, The Ghosts That Haunt Me. So before I get to God Shuffled His Feet, which of course has mm-mm-mm-mm. Who named mm-mm-mm-mm? When that was named, did anybody say, hey, that's a bad name?

Or did you guys Just go with it Once There was this kid Who Got into an accident And couldn't come to school But when

He finally came back His hair Had turned from black into bright white he said that it was from when my cousin smashed his sword Once there was this girl Who wouldn't go a change

With the girls in the change room And when they finally made her, they saw earth marks all over her body. She couldn't quite explain it, they'd always just been there. there there there there there there there there

there there there there there there But both girl and boy were glad This morning kid had it worse than that Cause then there was this boy Whose parents made him come directly home right after school.

And when they went to their church, they shook and lurched all over the church floor. floor you couldn't quite explain it they'd always just gone now See you later. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. As a matter of fact, when I wrote Mm-Mm-Mm, I had verses and I had a melody for the chorus, but I didn't have words for the chorus.

And so I recorded the demo and I just hummed the melody for the chorus, but I didn't have words for the chorus. And so I recorded the demo, and I just hummed the melody for the verse. And the band heard the demo, and they thought that it was how the song went. And when I told them I had planned to put words in, they said, no, no, no, you don't need any words. It's good just as it is. no, no, no, you don't need any words. It's good just as it is. And of course, I notoriously

followed them up with ah-ahs at the end. Right. And how do you decide, like, I'm wondering, like, how many M's do you have and mm-mm-mm? How many of them do you have? Do you have four? Three M's and it's four times.

It's every, like, scribe's worst nightmare when they have to, like, reference that song. It's like, how many M's and it's four times. It's every scribe's worst nightmare when they have to reference that song. It's like, how many M's again? What was that? Radio announcers too didn't like that very much. Exactly. Okay, so I'm going to ask a question from another

listener who's a fan of yours. I don't want to know somebody who's not a fan of yours, to be quite honest. Anyone who doesn't like the Crash Test Dummies is no friend of mine. But Lorne Cates. I recently re-listened to The Ghosts That Haunt Me and I was struck by androgynous.

It now feels ahead of its time with the theme of gender is relevant to love and gender norms are used to oppress people who don't fit them. Can we talk a bit about how the song came to be? Now, before you answer, I just want you to know that although when I owned this album, I thought that was a Crash Test Dummy song.

Years later, I was listening to the radio and I heard the Replacements version, which is the original of Androgynous. And I said to myself, I said, oh, that's a cover. I had no idea it was a cover. But please talk about why you chose to cover the Replacements Androgynous. My friend Ralph Allen, who was originally from Winnipeg and who had by then moved to Vancouver, sent me a cassette recording of a bunch of bands that he liked. And this included the Replacements. There was two

songs he sent on this mixed cassette, one was, but that were by the replacements, one was called Gary's Got a Boner, and the other one was called Androgynous, and I really took to both of them, really took to both of them, but I couldn't imagine covering Gary's Got a Boner, whereas Androgynous I felt was right for covering. And the rest

is history. But it is a, especially in 2023 when you listen to it, it is a very progressive look at gender, and at that time it was pretty revolutionary at the time that song was written. Yeah, absolutely.

That's largely what attracted me to it, quite frankly, if we're being honest and earnest. Of course, this is the home of Real Talk. And you did a great job. So your cover of that song is actually my go-to version for what that's worth. But it's a great song, and you guys did it justice.

Well, thank you. I'm glad you think so. I don't know if all the replacement fans out there would agree with you. I agree with you. That's all that matters to me. So we talked about the American success that comes with God Shuffled His Feet and that you say number two. God, even saying that's difficult, but a great song. I'm not sure about the title.

We'll have to workshop that a bit. But 5.5 million units sold. Here's a question from DJ Dream Doctor. DJ Dream Doctor says, I can't wait. Can you let them know I belch out quite a rendition of at karaoke?

Who put the pod in the podcast? You did baby. You did. Okay. That's actually another song completely, which I'm going to ask you about later. But, uh,

I think DJ dream doctor just wants you to know he loves, uh, your song on karaoke. Well, that's very great to hear. I can't even imagine people singing that song at karaoke, but I'm glad that they're trying I don't dare try because my voice won't go down there

so I don't even try maybe I can add a filter in post or something I could probably do it here's a great question from PJ why did they change the lyrics in mm mm mm mm when they appeared on the Arsenio Hall show in 1994? Us four rascals. Yes.

You know, I did that because I just thought it was fun to screw with people. Honestly. Honestly. When I wrote that song, I deliberated over which verse to use the verse that I used on Arsenio Hall or the verse that I used on the recording and rather absurdly I decided to use the other verse I'd forgotten that I'd done that

on Arsenio I remember doing it live I started doing it live and then I guess I carried it over to Arsenio Hall for some perverse reason of my own at the time. Well, PJ's been holding on to that question for how many decades now? Just waiting for you to come on Toronto Mike so we could get an answer. Sorry, PJ. It's just because we're wieners. We're waners. Brian Dunn

would love to hear what was your first reaction to Weird Al Yankovic's headline news. Once there was this kid who took a trip to Singapore and brought along

his spray paint and when he finally came back He had cane marks all over his bottom He said that it was from when the warden whacked it so hard Once there was this girl who Swore that one day she would be a figure skating champion And when she finally made it She saw some other girl who was better And so she hired some guy to club her in the kneecap They got paid for their soundbites

And sold their TV movie rights And then there was this guy who Made his wife so mad one night that she cut off his wiener And when he finally came to He found that Mr. Happy was missing He couldn't quite explain it It had always just been there Thank you. I thought it was the freaking best thing that ever happened to me in my whole life, just to put it bluntly.

Yeah, it was a total career milestone. When you're being covered by Weird Al, that is it. And not only that, he used our song as the first single on his record. Did he ask you permission? Did he ask you permission or did he go through your record label or something? Well, you know, Weird Al is a lovely guy. He doesn't need to ask anybody's permission to do anything because as long as you pay the person who wrote the song,

you can cover their song. No, you can, but he's got a personal rule. It's not a legal thing. He won't cover your song unless he gets your permission to do it. Well, and I was going to go on to point that out because he's such a gem of a guy. And he does a deal with

you. And basically the deal is he rewrites the lyrics so he takes half the publishing and you've written the song originally so you take half the publishing. It's more than fair and everybody wins you've written the song originally, so you take half the publishing. It's more than fair, and everybody wins, and we certainly won

big time. Can you believe that Prince said no? Oh! What a fool. And where is he now? A moment of hubris. A temporary lapse, perhaps. Right. But yeah, a moment of hubris a temporary lapse perhaps

right but yeah smart move in saying yes and it is a great parody worth noting here's a fun fact for fellow Canadians tuning in afternoons and coffee spoons was a bigger hit in this country than mmm

just a fun fact yes wellmm was rejected soundly by the Canadian music business when it first came out. Why is that, do you think? Because the Superman song was such a big hit. It was everywhere. Big jam in this country. And Mm-mm is a good song.

It is objectively a great pop song. Why would it be objected in your home and native land? I don't know. But the hometown newspaper, the Winnipeg Free Press, published this incredibly scathing negative review of our record on the day that it came out. And the record business followed suit. Radio didn't want to play it.

Much music didn't want to play the video. It got to 14 on the charts and then sunk to oblivion. And it was only by virtue of our becoming popular in America that the song was saved. in America that the song was saved, and in fact, Canada refused to play the song when it was at its height as a hit, because they'd already decided that it was no good, but they were in a position where they very much wanted now to play Crash the Summies all of a sudden, because we were hip, at least at that point. So we ended up in a situation where our career was saved by the United States of America. Yeah, we had to give them another single to sort of give them some, Canada something to play.

So Afternoons and Coffee Spoons stepped in. Which is also a great song, but it just sounds so Canadian, like to reject, like to sort of kill your own, if you will. And then all of a sudden, because America loves it, it's like, oh, sorry, I guess it is good. Right? Like that's so Canadian. That is so very Canadian, and I'm so glad that you see it that way

because that's exactly the way I see it. And the expression Canada eats their own is one that my own American agent used. The same guy that we've been using for 30 years or more. Is it Canadian or is it capitalist? The Canadians saw that there was money to be made, so they got back on the train. But they shouldn't have left the train.

There's no reason to leave that train. What are you doing? This is the second album the follow-up to a successful uh crash winnipeg band successful release follow-up album the big single which is a good song that people would like and you you shit on it for no other reason other than the fact that uh we eat own in this country. How dare you? I'm getting angry over here, Ellen.

I'm not allowed to talk about it. You signed an NDA. Yeah, just why that happened. Well, I'm glad the Americans said, although I don't know why they missed out on Superman's song, but there's so many things about the music industry I completely don't understand.

I mean, Kim Mitchell was telling me, oh, they were pushing his single in the States, and then they went with a Twisted Sister single because it was the same label, and they were favoring the Twisted Single, Twisted Sister single, which is a tough sentence to say, and next thing you know, Kim's back here, but Brad

had the sense to get out of here. He went to New York City. Probably for some other reason, maybe not necessarily because we eat our own, or maybe so. Brad, does that have anything to do with it? Yes, it certainly does. I was alienated by my own nation, and I ran away. And I love New York, even before I was alienated by Canada, or not by Canada, by the Canadian music industry.

I should always make that distinction because our fans have always been our fans. They're not the fickle ones. It's the music industry itself. The media in particular that did this. But anyways, it's not like I hold a grudge or anything. I'm trying to get it out of you. But Ellen, why did you end up in Toronto? Just curious. Shopping.

Shopping is great. And you think you laugh, you laugh, but no. I like it here. I always really felt at home here, even when I was living in Winnipeg. Winnipeg, you know, Winnipeg and Selkirk, Manitoba, that's where I'm from. Those are my roots. But I just love Toronto. I love the whole vibe of it.

Yeah, it's a great city. You heard I was here. I'm just on the other side of the city. Yeah, I heard you're in Ketobano. Close enough, close enough. You know, this neighborhood of mine is called New Toronto. So you stick with your old Toronto. I'm just going to be here in my new Toronto.

I like being where it's old. I feel safe here. I'm in New York. You're in New York, not New Amsterdam, but New York, and I'm in New Toronto, so we're kind of in the same place here. Ellen, let's start with you on this one. I want to know about how you guys ended up on the Dumb and Dumber soundtrack. Let's begin.

Let's begin. Peter Pumpkinhead came to town spreading wisdom and cash around fed the starving and housed the poor

Showed the Vatican what God was for Money made too many enemies enemies of the people who would keep us on our knees so it will be the pumpkin

it will be the pumpkin head it will be the Need a pumpkin head for what you change Government to what's learned is a thing But then sad scandals failed outright Creed had merely said Had he done it all, it's alright

But he made too many enemies All the people who would keep us on our knees For it will be a pumpkin For it will be a pumpkin head Need a monkey head Was too good Had him nailed to a chunk of wood He died running on light TV Fe'n dadgrin yn ond laeth i fi Hengyn y Lirionod, a'n fawr fel chi, a'n anabod arnaf fel fi And all of these All the people who would keep us on our knees A rainbow beat a pumpkin

A rainbow beat a pumpkin, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah A rainbow-beat-up pumpkin A rainbow-beat-up pumpkin A rainbow-beat-up pumpkin Yeah Oh, my, oh, my, oh, my, oh I just wanna cry, oh

We needed a song for me to sing in the live show, just to make a little break in the show of baritoneness. And Brad has always been a big fan of XTC, so we thought we could cover that one. And some people heard the song, and they came out to our live show and they heard the song and they saw how incredibly good looking I am. And so they asked if they could use it for their soundtrack. And we said no. And they said, we're going to give you this amount of money. And we said, yes. But you didn't really say no. Did not say no. Just clarifying. Okay.

said yes but you didn't really say no did not say no i'm just clarifying okay i'm being seizures um of course we're very pleased that they wanted to use uh our our song on well our cover of an xtc song on their on the soundtrack and uh and they used as well on the dumb and dumb dumb and dumber soundtrack so that that was always that was a high point and And Jim Carrey, of course, fellow Canadian. So it all comes together here. And we were able to get Jeff Daniels to appear in the video, which was great. And I always regret the first time I met him, I think the first or second thing out of my mouth and speed had just come out. Right. I said, oh, that's scary.

And every since that I wanted to shoot myself in the face. Well, don't do that. Don't do that. I love that story. I'm going to just say hello to Dimitri, because Dimitri said, what made them choose to cover the ballad of Peter Pumpkinhead? But Brad, we just learned you're the big XTC fan.

Yes, we just did learn that. And in fact, I was lucky enough to be able to have lunch with andy partridge of xtc one of the principal song sort of principal songwriter in xtc colin molding's also written his fair share of tunes and he was the one to have their first hit life begins with the hawk but um andy was always my real idol, I think. Does New York City always sound like that, or does it ever calm down? Well, it more or less always sounds like this, but we happen to be at a time of day when

it gets particularly honking-oriented. It's nothing like it used to be. But the tendency, even now, is for people who are sitting at a red light, when the light turns green, they honk. Now, of course, when a light turns green, there's a certain turnaround time between when the car begins to move into the intersection and forward. And as a result, you know, things don't happen instantaneously. And when things don't happen instantaneously in New York, people honk.

It's like Weird Al Yankovic's accordion. There's a bit of a moment where it's got to kind of stretch out before the cars can move. It's not just instant. That's profound observation my friend i got weird al on the brain here i do need to also shout out craig m though because i we stole his thunder here but he said i think crash test dummies sang the xtc song peter pumpkinhead right of course we know this is true everyone knows this craig okay who doesn't know that everyone knows that how did that come about we just learned i also think they made some leeway into the u.s at their peak okay yes big time come on craig keep up what was that like

and how big did things get uh hello to them and thanks for all the great music can you please let craig m know like at the height of the fandom in the US of A for Crash Test Dummies, how crazy was it? Were you just always walking on red carpets? Give me a taste of that time. It was crazy and we always were walking on red carpets.

We stayed in fabulous hotels. We toured around the world twice. We went on SNL. We were on David world twice. We went on SNL. We were on David Letterman. We were on Cone O'Brien. We were on Arsenio Hall.

We were on every freaking show you can imagine. It was an insanely fun, raucous time. It was also very busy. I mean, they worked Brad to the bone with press. I mean, it wasn't all just, you know, red carpets. And that was like, you know, 10% of everything was the red carpets and the award shows, which was totally fun and a dream. But they worked Brad very hard with the press. So it wasn't all glamorous. You know, the three o'clock mornings

to get a flight and stuff like that. So, yeah. You have to take, you have to, we earned our, we earned it. We earned it in airports and buses not on stage. Yes, exactly. Do you guys know Humble and Fred?

Yes. Okay, so so humble and fred without i mean they were the morning show on a station that would have played uh some crash test dummies so they uh i actually produce their show now so they have a podcast and i i'm a the producer of that podcast and there's a gentleman named Scary Pete. His real name is Pete Cuno, but they called him Scary Pete. That's a long story. But he did parody songs for the Humble and Fred show. And they had a character on Humble and Fred. This is a long winded way of telling you the story, but they had a character on Humble and Fred called Goo Head. And Goo Head was a bit of an idiot. And Fred Patterson from Humble and Fred played Goo Head. May I please play a little bit of this Goo Head parody just to get your reaction? Because I don't know if I'll ever have another opportunity

to play this for you. I'm listening. Brad, are you listening? Is that okay with you? I'm absolutely enchanted to listen. Okay. Now, I'm going to play it and I hope you can hear it because with Zoom I have to do a thing so I'll look at you to see if you can hear it.

I was wondering if you could help me. Who put the cat in the cataract? Who put the cat in the cataract? Who put the cat in the cataract? Who put the sand in the sandwich? Who put the sand in the sandwich? Who put the sand in the sandwich?

Who put the sand in the sandwich? Who put the sand in the sandwich? Go ahead, baby. Go ahead, baby. Who put the ham in the hamster? Go ahead, baby. Go ahead. Who put the pea in the peanuts? Go ahead, baby. Go ahead, baby. Keep your hands off the phone while I'm gone.

You always mix up things. Every number that you call is wrong. You always mix up things. I'll bring down Mr. Goo Head, but I'm looking for your reactions. In fact, I think I'll play this for the guys next week when I'm on the show. What say you about Goo Head Baby? Goo Head sounds a little like Paul Lynn. He's hilarious.

You notice that? Goo Head's trying to take my job. But how is it as a parody? They're no Weird Al Yankovic, but they all worked very hard on this. I'm just dying to know what the artists think of it. You faded it at a crucial spot. I can bring it back. You want more?

You want more? I can bring it back. You said something about coup, which is our favorite topic. All right, well, here. Let me bring her back in time. Hold on. Keep your hands off the phone while I'm gone You always mix up things done. Goohead baby, goohead. Who put the cock in the cockpit?

Goohead baby. Goohead baby. Who put the hairy in the Krishna? So there's, I can send this to you guys. I could send you this as an email attachment and you could enjoy it anytime you want. But there is a Goohead baby. We were looking for new music to put on for when we walk on stage i think that that would be great he's like a cross between paul lind and peter

griffin like there's a little peter griffin in there yeah and here's you ready for this mind blow are you you're sitting down ellen you ready okay so peter gr Griffin, you're talking about the family guy character, right? Yes. Okay. There was also prior to Humble and Fred being the morning show on 102.1 here in Toronto, CFNY, the big morning show on that station was Pete and Geats. Pete, his name is Peter Griffin. Oh, my God.

I need going to, I need a moment, please. The universe finally makes sense. And that's a true story as well. So, and, uh,

I'm going to ask you, I'm going to tell you here, uh, cause I want to talk about your new material, but I want to tell you that I had a lump of coal. I had this, uh, the first Noel by the crash Test Dummies was my favorite

track on that album and I'm dying to know how did you guys end up on this Australian release and how the heck are the odds there too? What's the story of A Lump of Coal? Ellen, do you remember that record and why it came to be? I remember being on it

but I can't remember what. Maybe Jeff Rogers, our manager at the time, swung it or something. No idea. That would have been 1992. Yeah, sounds about right. I would have been like six years old then. I remember

being told that there was this project called A Lump of Coal being put together, and they wanted a Christmas song, and I've always been a Christmas carol fan, so I was quite eager to do it. And I believe that we also made a video for that song. It was First Noel, wasn't it? Right.

Yeah, we made a video for that that I think still gets occasionally played at Christmastime for Canadian content. that I think still gets occasionally played at Christmas time for Canadian content. Oh, I'm sure I saw it on Much Music every December for many years. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. What happened? Sorry, go ahead.

Is Much Music still on? No, it's like, you know what? Now it's just like reruns of like The Simpsons or something. Oh, really? Do they show Catfish? That's a show? Because if it is a show, it's probably on MuchMusic right now. But there's no video rotation anymore on MuchMusic.

You've never heard of Catfish? I can hardly believe that. It's a huge show in America. It's sort of where you if I pretended to be a young woman or something and I tried to get a guy to fall in love with me online, is that catfishing? That's catfishing.

Yeah. Using a false identity and then dating someone is basically catfishing. Fun. I think Goo Head would have done some catfishing in his time i think probably what happened with you guys and bmg uh i guess after give yourself a hand but what happened with bmg i got tired of um being told by the anr guy how i should write the music that i was writing

by the A&R guy how I should write the music that I was writing. And so I told him that I wanted to make a poetry record and that I really wasn't interested in making commercial music anymore. And I wasn't because he had totally turned me off it. And then I was able to go ahead and make the music that I wanted to and release it on my own label. And I just realized I looked at my toes when I said all those things, so it's probably not going to look great on camera, but maybe this is just an audio thing.

Just audio. Don't worry. Your secret is safe with Ellen and I. Pretty good toes, just telling you. Okay. That's good to know, too. Now, I want to talk about the new single, but first I have a note,

and I didn't write down who gave me this note, and I feel terrible, but the note was this. The 2020s suck. Their live acoustic cover of Betty Davis' Eyes is fantastic. I wonder who sent me that, but please take that compliment. Well,

I've taken it duly noted, and I'm surprised that anybody knows the Crash Estude record because it's rather obscure. Now I feel like I might have to search Twitter for that sentence and then find out who the heck tweeted that at me.

Which of you two wants to tackle current day crash test dummies? So in post, I'm going to be adding some of Sacred Alphabet. So I want to hear about the new single Sacred Alphabet, but maybe give me an idea of what are you guys up

to in terms of crash test dummies as a group and where people could actually see you and what new music can we look forward to you want to take this ellen i've taken it before um that's a lot of questions all at once and and i'm blonde so i need to sort of focus those down a little bit but i need to interrupt you like a rude host to say that when i read the 2020 suck that was the name of the guy or gal or i don't actually know the gender of this individual but the 2020 suck is the person on twitter who loves your acoustic cover of betty davis eyes the 2020s don't suck maybe they do we got covid in the 2020s maybe they do suck they've kind of sucked a little yeah yeah what am i doing okay so i asked you a lot of questions

at once how about this so so did the crash Test Dummies break up and then reform? Because you guys are here today making new music. Yeah, we kind of broke up and reformed. We did the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra gig. Well, we didn't really break up, but everyone was doing their own thing. It's not like we said, we're breaking up breaking up and and you know we did acoustic things together and like very rarely we did a uh a show in Duluth Minnesota that we recorded in what was that 4G when that was a big thing is that what it was what was the new technology then it was some new technology like it could have been 4g yeah we did little things here and

there but we didn't get back together as a touring entity until we did the pan am games in uh in winnipeg in i think 2017 and it went so well and we had so much fun we thought well maybe we could you know do a few more shows be gramps has the music and we got some old costumes in the barn kind of thing. And our agent said, you know, yeah, I guess I'd probably put two or three weeks of shows together for you. And then other than the pandemic years, we've been going pretty steadily. Awesome, Brad. Anything to add to that?

I do want to hear some detail about the writing of Sacred Alphabet. In the beginning was not the word not yet there was no sacred alphabet no subject, object Alphabet

No subject, object, verb or tense Sound had not been enslaved to sense The void was neither dark nor deep It did not like some giant sleep In cosmic unawareness coiled Undreaming of a world unspoiled. No melody did gently wake this giant, nor did his soul take the shape of song heard in his dreams, It merely seems Instead an undivided howl A random, preternatural vow No beauty, truth or goodness here

No sin, no shame no guilt nor fear There was no sacred alphabet In the beginning was not the word Not yet Kampung Kampung Amin. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Well, it took me forever to write the lyrics. They deal with a rather abstract concept, the idea of the emergence of language, of sound beginning to make sense rather than just sounding like chaos and becoming language. So it's a trippy topic, and it took a while to nail that down

and make sense out of that idea. I talk about the idea of the void which would be prior to language and what that might look like and of course it looks like nothing and I have to describe nothing in metaphorical terms and it's quite an adventurous lyric I have to say

I'm really happy with what's called a lyric video that's done by a company called Lyric Vids. And they took our album artwork and manipulated it into a video. And it looks fantastic, and it really suits the song. And so I'm very pleased with how it turned out. The music was influenced by my studies in composition and specifically counterpoint, which is a form of writing for vocal music in the context of sacred music, sacred vocal music. It was originally invented by the church so that monks could sing easily together. And they have all these rules about how you can approach

various intervals in music. And it's a completely different approach to music than what we do now with songs where we have melodies riding on top of chords. And it very much influenced the writing of the song and the writings particularly of the piano part, which is the foundation of the song, that and, of course, the melody. Yes, Brad taught himself to play piano during the pandemic. Some of us gained 10 pounds. He learned to play the piano. Wow.

Okay. What a talented mofo. He is. Does that get annoying, like working with this man and so talented? No. I'm used to it and i can pretty much turn block him out sort of yada yada but and and wake up when when i know that it's it's the right time to respond with but no he's uh the hype is real you know we opened with the most, just the terrible question about Brad's voice. Like, where did that come from? Like, maybe the worst question ever asked

on a podcast or other broadcast. And I would just let you know, Ellen, that because he's got that voice, that baritone, the way your voice dances with it and gives us that, it's really a beautiful mix. Like, I love the fact that we have your voice. I wouldn't want, just Brad, no, and dances with it and gives us that. It's really a beautiful mix. I love the fact that we have your voice. I wouldn't want just Brad.

No, give me some Brad and some Ellen. Let's get that mixed together. I've always thought it was very important that Ellen sing backup vocals with me because I think you're right. I think my voice would become funereal after a while. It would just be a big downer. And I need Ellen as a foil, most definitely. And after singing together for 33 years, we can sort of anticipate,

we know how to work together vocally, so it's pretty easy to do. Well, if you don't, I'd say maybe you're in the wrong band. Like maybe it's been three decades do. Well, if you don't, I'd say maybe you're in the wrong band. It's been three decades. Are the Watchmen hiring? Danny, are you hiring? Danny has a bar in Parkdale called the Motel Bar, and it's the place to go if you want

to see the Leafs versus the Jets. Oh, then we get in trouble. It's a house divided here. My husband is a Leafs fan. Okay, well, you know, he's going to have to just,

well, you know, suck it up because it's definitely the Jets place. The Jets, you know, they cheer for the Jets at Motel Bar.

And Sammy Cohn, who will be here next week, is a real estate agent now. Why do they cheer for the Jets at the Motel bar? They're from Winnipeg. They're from Winnipeg, and you can take the Danny out of Winnipeg, but you can't take the Winnipeg out of Danny.

True enough. I don't know. You're from Winnipeg. Do you like hockey? No. Well, Alan doesn't like hockey, and frankly, I'm the sort of worst person to ask if he likes hockey, because I find it incredibly boring.

That's a no. It would be really helpful if I did have an interest in hockey, because it bridges all kinds of conversational gaps, especially when you're in America. Oh, Winnipeg, I've heard of that. You guys have a hockey team. So what do you think of your hockey team? And I don't even know who's on it. And whoever is on it, by the way, isn't probably from Winnipeg anyway, so it hardly matters.

And that's kind of how I feel about sports generally. Although I was forced by my parents to take power skating lessons and join the community club hockey league. And I did get the most improved player award when I was in grade four. Wow. Okay. Yeah, so I got to keep the trophy at home for one year. And it had the names of other jocks on it like Glenn Johnson and his brother Grant. Wow.

And that was a big, big moment in my life when I got that award. Heavy times. Wow. Yes, heavy times. See, if they had let you keep that award, like I know you had to give it back, but if they'd given you your own,

it might be right beside that Juno right now. That's right. Well, I did get my own, but it was just a little tiny version. I have also, by the way, Brad, this kind of bonds us here before we say goodbye, but I've also won Most Improved Player. I won it at the Swansea Hockey Association, and I was very proud. Really? But, you know, to win that award, you've got to suck.

Like, you have to suck and then get better. Yes, you have to have sucked. Right. In the past tense. Right, right, right. And the best is what happened to my oldest son, who won that award multiple times. So I said, you had to suck so bad that you improved it enough to win the trophy

and then still suck enough to improve enough to win the trophy. Like, that is difficult. And he did it. Wow. What is difficult. And he did it. Wow. What an accomplishment. I thoroughly enjoyed my chat with you two. I'm rooting for you. I was there in the heyday and I'm still here.

I don't eat my young here. I think you guys are great. So you have a single out we talked about. I just played it. Now, is there an album coming out? Is there a big tour? What's the uh plan here well of course everyone asks me if there's another uh if there's this is like a

single for an album and in fact it's just a single uh i don't have an album written. I am writing a companion piece to this song that we will release, but it'll just be its own thing. And if I can come up with more material, then we'll probably continue recording it on an annual or semi-annual kind of basis and putting it out as we continue to tour. We're touring around America. This year we'll be touring around America and Canada quite extensively. And next year we'll be going to Europe for the summer.

Not too shabby. Okay, Ellen, does your husband get to go on that trip? No, he's got to stay home and look after all the pets. I can send over some Great Lakes beer for him if he needs to. You know what? He would not say no to that. See, I'll just be honest with you, Ellen. If you had come all the way to New Toronto,

you'd leave with fresh craft beer from Great Lakes. I'd have a large meat lasagna from Palma Pasta, and I even have Ridley Funeral Home measuring tape, okay? These are the goodies you get when you come in person. Funeral Home measuring tape? Yeah, just handy. You never know when you're going to measure something. Look, I have a measuring tape here, too.

Oh, my God. Right here. Okay, so one last mind blow before we say goodbye, and this is the last one, I promise, but I heard Brad mention LyricVids. I believe that is the very same company that's owned by a guy named Anthony Craprata, I think is his last name.

But he's better known to me as the rapper producer Illvibe. And he's the man who wrote and performs the song that introduces every single episode of Toronto Mic'd. So you guys didn't hear it because I'm adding it in post, but if you ever did bother to listen back to your Toronto Mic'd debut, you would hear Ill Vibe from Lyricvids. Oh, really? Well, Lyricvids did

an amazing job, I gotta say. I was very pleased. Well, you guys did an amazing job. Absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for giving me some of your precious time so I could pepper you with these annoying questions about your voice, Brad. Well, I take it all

in stride or try. And that brings us to the end of our 1,212th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike.

The Crash Test Dummies are at C-T-D-S Band. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta

is at Palma Pasta. Recycle My Electronics are at EPRA underscore Canada. And you can go to recyclemyelectronics.ca right now to find a depot near you to safely recycle your old tech. And Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH. See you all next week. Well, I want to take a streetcar downtown Read Andrew Miller and wander around And drink some Guinness from a tin

Cause my UI check has just come in Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold but the snow wants me to dance And your smile is fine and it's just like mine And it won't be the day And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is

Rose and green Well you've been under my skin For more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter And eight years of laughter and eight years of tears And I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you But I'm a much better man for having known you Oh, you know that's true because

Everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow won't stay today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine And it won't go away Because everything is rosy and gray Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who Yeah, I wonder who

Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of green Cause I know that's true Yes, I do I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah I know it's true How about you? Oh, they're picking up trash and they're putting down rogues And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes

And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn? Because everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms me today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine

And it won't go away Cause everything is Rosy and gray Well, I've kissed you in France And I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour

But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up I like it much better going down on you. Yeah, you know that's true. Because everything is coming up rosy and green. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms us today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine. And it won't go go away Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy, yeah Everything is rosy and gray Thank you.