Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Damien Cox Returns: Toronto Mike'd #403

Episode Date: November 29, 2018

Mike chats with Sportsnet's Damien Cox about why he's no longer on Prime Time Sports, changes at Hockey Night in Canada, his new book about the '92-'93 Leafs and much more.

Welcome to episode 403 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Propertyinthe6.com, Paytm Canada, Census Design and Build, and our newest sponsors, Palma Pasta and Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. Palma Pasta and Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me is the author of The Last Good Year, Seven Games That Ended An Era, Sportsnet's Damien Cox. Welcome back, Damien. I feel like things have progressed since i was last year new sponsors seems a little more technical little swingier tunes uh things are moving up and on this is 403a who got to be 400 i actually did a clip show so i had listeners submit like listeners would take their smartphones

and record a little piece about why they love the show their favorite episodes and whatnot and they would email that to me and I stitched together like 90 minutes of just listeners talking about the show. It was actually pretty cool. 403 podcasts. That's pretty impressive. Congratulations. No, thanks so much.

And this is... Here's to the next 403. That's right. I was thinking if I was smart enough to like break it into... I did a podcast and it went about, I don't know, 90 minutes and then they broke it into two parts like part one and part two if I had done that I'd be on episode uh 800 by now so uh actually since the last time uh we spoke I was playing this yesterday I'm putting this is your song I'm playing this for you man I know that's why he's back touring again, eh?

Are you going to catch him? Are you going to catch him? Would you go with Brad Fay? Who would be your date for that one? We went and saw him in Nancy Wilson of Heart together. Amazing. In Detroit. So, yeah, I'd go see him again.

Now, I didn't mean to interrupt your story, but I was going to. But, please, you were saying something just as I started playing Bob Seger? Oh, since the last time we chatted, I've become more a fan of a few different podcasts. Not just yours, but including... I've been listening to a lot of Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History, which is a great podcast. So, I don't know much about podcasts in terms of what people listen to and why, but you got a feeling that's becoming more and more mainstream.

So you're cutting edge. Thanks, man. I like to say I was pre-serial. That means I was doing this before serial came out and then suddenly everybody and their grandmother discovered podcast. Oh, there's this thing. And now post-serial.

I think that's right. Yeah, and I think post-serial app obviously the the the average joe i'll say uh kind of knows how to listen to a podcast now which is kind of cool and now of course as you know you work for rogers every conglomerate has decided to start like a podcast division and right like i'm now competing with uh the lead for example you got a head you've got a head start. That's true. But I don't get the advertisement on the bottom of, you know, The Leaf Game, for example. That's what I need.

I need to buy time on The Leaf Game. I'm sure it'll happen in time. I can listen to Bob Seger all day long. You want to do that? We can do 90 minutes of Seger. Just listen to Bob Seger. Yeah. So I'm playing this. Okay, let me just tell the audience while Damien soaks in this jam here.

But you are now making your third appearance. So if people want to go to the original Damien Cox deep dive, that's episode 110. Oh, yeah? Yeah, 110. You were an early guy. So Mike chats with longtime Toronto Star journalist and Rogers broadcaster Damien Cox about his years at the Star. What was the date on that? You know, I don't know.

I didn't put down the date. I don't know. A lot has changed since then. I'd say that was 2015, maybe. Yeah, a lot has changed since the last time. We'll get to that. But, okay, we talked with the Star, the Fan 590,

TSN, Rogers Hockey. We talked about, we talked a bit about like your style of tweeting which has changed since then actually. And your perception. Oh yeah. We talked about this.

As I recall the first time we came on we talked about this perception that you were a little Not a very nice person. No condescending and arrogant were the two words.

Those were ones. And I we talked about that and we played oh yeah I played that nice person. Condescending and arrogant were the two words. Those were ones. We talked about that and we played... I played that Carol... I guess you must not have found me too condescending and arrogant. You've invited me back twice since. Here's the real talk. When you left the first time,

I think I said this in the last episode, I couldn't tell if you enjoyed yourself. There's been a few guests like that, but usually I can tell this went well and the guests enjoyed themselves. I couldn't tell if you enjoyed yourself. There's been a few guests like that, but usually I can tell this went well and the guests enjoyed themselves. I couldn't quite tell. But then I wanted you back to kick out the jams. Which, by the way, if people want to hear you kick out

the jams, we're playing Night Moves. In fact, it's still going. What am I doing bringing down Bob Seger? We were playing Night Moves because it's one of your jams. So if people go to episode 270, we play and discuss your 10 favorite songs of all time. Actually, I think about that from time to time, and

I wonder if the 10 have changed, and if I missed something. In fact, I went and saw the other day, I went and saw the movie Bohemian Rhapsody, and I was remembering what a huge Queen fan I was during the 70s, and whether one of their songs, if I were to do it again, would have made it on, and there's been a few canadians um uh artists that i think i should have had more of that on 10s just

not enough and there was no junk house on your uh there was zero junk house and i bring that up because before we started recording you mentioned that uh the tom wilson episode 399 and did you you said something he grew up near you or you, well, he grew up on the Hamilton Mountain, as I did. And, you know, I saw him in Blackie and the Rodeo Kings last summer at Stephen Brunt's Music and Literary Festival out in Newfoundland. And I have to, I am embarrassed to admit that I knew nothing about Newfoundland. And I realize now how ignorant I was about Newfoundland. I knew nothing about Newfoundland and I realize now how ignorant I was about Newfoundland

and I didn't know a whole lot about Tom Wilson and Blackie and the Rodeo Kings I knew some Hamilton related people I knew Colin Cripps Kathleen Edwards I knew for a while and I knew of Tom Wilson but it was my first chance to see him and his band and of course he has a book out

he was on your show and he's a very interesting guy. Fascinating guy. And I always love people with that voice of his. Like that gravelly kind. Someone like Sam Elliott. You know what I mean? I know. Yeah. I always wish he had.

You know what he is? He's the voice. Have you seen the new Stars Born? Yes, I did. Yeah. So he's the voice that... What's his name? The lead guy. Brad. Bradley Cooper. did. So he's the voice that, what's his name, the lead guy? Bradley Cooper? Bradley Cooper. That's the voice that Bradley Cooper is trying to hit, except you can tell it's too forced

through some of it. It's like he's putting it on. That's how Tom Wilson talks every single day. I'm amazed you even, he's so tall too. I'm amazed you even got him, wedged him down here. May I tell the listeners that I warn you every time you him down here. May I tell the listeners that I, I warn you every time you've come here, I said,

watch the low ceiling. Every time I hit my head. Right. You hit your head. And for a moment we thought there might be blood, but there wasn't, which is a great movie. There will be blood.

That's right. It's a great movie. Daniel Day Lewis, right? Yeah, exactly. He was great. I was going to say there will be blood.

The Damien Cox story. Walk hard. The Damien Cox story. So, uh so uh uh because it's almost december like i feel like i can play this again and only if you're i think your game like i think i guess my story was going i wasn't sure you enjoyed yourself the first time then the second time you came on to kick out the jams i felt uh like more uh the real you is exposed like you told some heartfelt real stories. That was like you warming up and we saw this very human side

of you and then I was like, I think Davian does. You weren't sure I was human? I was told you might not be human and then I said, he is human. I was happy to see that. Kicking out the jams does humanize people, but you are human. You do bleed almost like Rocky IV.

You remember when... Oh, yes. Dolph Lundgren, he... Was that before? Yeah, that's IV. That's IV. Because III was the... That was the Hulk Hogan one?

That's the Clubber Lang one, yeah. Right, in Hulk Hogan and... Mr. T and Hulk Hogan are in that one. I think if it had ended there, it would have been a good thing. But that's a franchise that just keeps giving and giving with these new Creed movies and all that. And I haven't seen the new Creed,

but I actually liked the last one. And I thought Sly was pretty good. I've just sort of... You've cut it off. I love, I'm a Rocky guy. I love, I think Rocky, the original, is one of the underrated movies because people think of it's all,

because it's kind of been undercut by all the sequels. A hundred percent, yeah. But the original is really gritty and pretty damn good. Love that original Rocky, absolutely. But I was the right age for Four, in that I was young and dumb when Four came out. So I actually enjoyed the whole big bad Russian with the steroids and then making him bleed.

I'm like, oh, this is cool. And then as I got older and revisited it, I realized this is not very good. But you know how it is when you're young and dumb. Okay, so now I realize you do have a sense of humor. So because it's the season, and we'll never get to play this, but this is what we played for your first episode. And I'm bringing it up because I think he's very talented and he stopped making these videos. Bloj Salmin, he calls himself.

So this was, do you remember this, Carol of the Bells? Okay, yeah. Have you played this for your kids? I think they've seen it. They've seen when they, various memes have been done of me and stuff.

They all laugh. I think it's hilarious. We'll just give it a moment to breathe. Is this guy still around? Well, he's not producing these videos anymore. He used to do stuff with Down Goes Brown, and they stopped. They should start again. But here we go.

I think Howard Berger's about to join you. Hold on. Hold on. That's Berger. Take a minute to the stupid fans. No final stand, 67. No final stand, 67. So-called greatest fans. So-called greatest fans. So-called greatest fans. So-called greatest fans.

That's an earworm. I'm telling you, you'll be singing that all day. Probably not. Carol of the Bells. Good for him. Yeah. Can you tell me how it felt to kick out the jams? What was your feeling afterwards?

Did it feel good or indifferent? No, I liked it. I mean, when you ask, do you see more of people? Well, you asked, right? I mean, a lot of interviewing for me and for you is the same, is trying to get people. Often you get people talking about things that they don't always get asked about. And so if someone comes and asks me about William Nylander or the Leafs or this, that, or the other, you're going to get sort of a standard sort of, you know, whatever I can give you kind of answer. If you start asking about music and art and books and my family and my life, I'm going to have more to say about most of those things.

I mean, I'm a fairly private guy, but at the same time, I'm pretty open about a lot of things. And if I think it's none of your business, I'll say, Mike, it's none of your business. But other than that, I like talking about some of this other stuff. So I had fun, yeah. And you mentioned Stephen Brunt. Now, Stephen Brunt, he kicked out the jams.

Another Hamiltonian. Yeah, he kicked out the jams. That's a good one to listen to, too. Well, Stephen is, he is, I have to say, I mean, he's a musical eccentric. He does deep dives into a lot of music that's on the edges that I don't even access. So one of the things I like hanging around Steven

is he actually introduces me to music and talks about bands that I don't necessarily hear about or know about. And so he's a very, very knowledgeable guy musically. And it's almost like the more popular the band, the least he's interested in, the popular the band the least he's interested in the least popular the more he's interested no bob seger on his no i i don't know what would be on his list and no bruce springsteen either yeah yeah which is you know i mean everybody to their own i

mean i i at the same time i mean i listen to stuff that i'm sure no other thinking person listens to as well but he is a real, he's very closely attached to, I don't know what you'd call it, the off-Broadway musical industry, and he loves it. And again, that festival that you attended. So that was your first time in Newfoundland. And did you go specifically for the festival? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We talked about it. My wife and I were planning a trip, and we were looking at, I've always wanted to go to Mount Rushmore. We talked about it. My wife and I were planning a trip, and we were looking at it. I've always wanted to go to Mount Rushmore. That was in there. And then we decided somehow, because he'd mentioned it a bunch of times, and we thought, why don't we just go there? And I'd never been to Gros Morne and Newfoundland and that area.

Well, it just blew me away, and the festival just blew me away, and it's just so down to earth. I mean, you say it's small small it's in a small town but they attract significant people and um i think anytime as somebody who is some kind of a writer as i suppose i am you get into an environment where there's a lot of literary people around talking about books it really kind of expands your brain a little bit i I'm really jealous because I do... You flew there, right? You flew? Yeah, you can fly right to Deer Lake. Is that like... Can you give me a prospect price?

Like, what does it cost to fly from... Oh, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. $700, $800? Okay. But I tell you, for those of you who do know Stephen, he is a major celebrity in Woody Point, Newfoundland. He runs the show out there,

and it's quite an amazing accomplishment what he and the people who pull that festival have done that pulled together. Amazing. Another sports media person who kicked out the jams and is totally into cutting-edge new music and could teach us a great deal is Dave Hodge. Did you see Dave Hodge's return to Hockey Night in Canada

a couple of weekends ago? So the answer is no, I didn't. But I did have dinner with, this would have been what you should have showed up and done the podcast to this. I had a great dinner with myself, Brunt, Hodge, and John Shannon about a week and a half ago. Wow.

And we actually didn't talk a lot about music that night. But Dave, like Stephen, is extremely knowledgeable and, again, connected to the music industry. It's a funny thing, you know, people in sports media like to be connected

to the music industry, and the people in the sports media like to be connected to the music industry, and the people in the music industry like to be connected to people in the sports industry. You're absolutely right. So, no, but Dave, again, he's a whole other level of musical appreciation and knowledge and stuff. Well, he kicked out his top 10, but he actually brought 100 jams. So we did his top 100, but I only had time to play the top 10. So what were his top 10? I'm interested.

Do you have them? I have a spreadsheet online, which I'll link you to. I'd be interested. There's an ongoing, like a spreadsheet. All jam kickers, all their jams. Let me guess. One of them would have been something by Wilco. Yeah.

He loves Wilco. He loves Wilco, for sure. And was it Frank Turner? Is that the, there's a guy, he's a big fan of. Yeah, there's guys he listens to that I haven't even heard of. He loves Wilco. He loves Wilco, for sure. And was it Frank Turner? He's a big fan of... Yeah, there's guys he listens to that I haven't even heard of. Dave Hodge is a guy. So I've been thinking about Dave Hodge. Of course, he resurfaced.

Oh, sorry. I did want to answer you. I said, did I see the thing on Saturday Night? Right. I missed it, but I was really pleased for Dave because, first of all, he should be in the Hockey Hall of Fame and that's another topic we can talk about some other time, what the broadcasters are doing with

their part of the Hockey Hall of Fame. And he is a legend in Canadian hockey and sports broadcasting and for Hockey Night in Canada to sort of recognize him in that way made me, as a friend of Dave and as an

admirer of Dave and as a colleague of Dave, made me feel really, really good and really, really proud about it. So I was absolutely thrilled they did that. I know you're not in a hiring position at Sportsnet, but if I were, I would hire Dave Hodge, right? Isn't that a slam dunk? I think so. I think they're, you know, without giving anything away,

I think they've talked at different periods of time. I think it may have to do with what Dave wants to do at this point in his life. But look, any sports broadcast, any hockey broadcast, any radio broadcast, he's fantastic on radio, is richer if Dave Hodge is involved. So I hope you're right, and I hope it happens. Yes, and when he's in the Rogers family, whenever we make that happen. And part of it is because, okay, so Scott Moore left,

but have they named a replacement for Scott Moore? No. Not that I'm aware of. We need to find out who that person is. Yeah, you know, that's a good question, and I don't know what's going to happen there. And I think it's going to be interesting to see the different directions um that uh um are that happen with rogers um with with scott gone and and what's going to happen in different things i mean i think the media

business in general is being squeezed the sports media business is in general is being squeezed um you talked about you about more and more podcasts. There are different directions it's got to go in. And I think Scott was an inspirational guy to a lot of people and a creative guy. And so it'll be very interesting to see who they replace him with and what the direction is going to be. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Now, The Great Cup just took place. Did you watch The Great Cup? I watched big chunks of it. I was kind of going back and forth between that and the Raptors. Yeah, me too. I was watching the Raptors, but then at halftime I popped over and then afterwards popped over, but then abandoned when I realized the game wasn't as close as I was hoping.

But I want to ask you, you wrote for many years. In fact, you still write for the Star, like as a guest? Yeah, I still write two columns a week for the Toronto Star as well as write for sportsnet.ca, yeah. In what year did you join the Star again? 1985. Wow. I still remember in the Passion Returns.

We'll get to this later. I had the Passion Returns on DVD, and they had that shot of you in the fantastic mullet. Yeah, I had hair. Yes, you had a lot of hair. And now you're bleeding from the head because you didn't have that protection. That's right.

I'm asking your thoughts on the fact that the Toronto Star did not send anyone to the Grey Cup this year. What do you think of that? Well, I mean, I am of two minds about that. First of all, I think it's disappointing in that I think it's another sort of nail in the coffin is the wrong term, but another indicator of where the business is going.

And the fact that the largest newspaper in the country doesn't either have the resources to cover that, the Grey Cup, or chooses to put its resources some other, use its resources some other way, I think is really disappointing. But I think that is also partially based in nostalgia, the way the business used to be in the way Canada used to be. I mean, I think the television numbers from the Grey Cup are in and they are way down. But even way down is millions of people. So I don't know what, I haven't seen that. I did see the tweet from Arash Madani and he said it was like, yeah, I think he said it might be down a million people or something.

Yeah, so that's a big drop, and it's been dropping. So it could be that the Toronto Star and other newspaper outlets that don't send somebody, they are reflecting the interests of their readers who may, and particularly here in Toronto,

it's not going to be a surprise to you that there's not a lot of interest in the Canadian Football League as much as people want to pretend there is. So I was thinking about this this morning as to whether, you know, having, I mean, I went to my first Canadian Football League game in 1971.

I've been watching this league for a long, long time and cheering for the Hamilton Tiger Cats for a long, long time. And for the Hamilton Tiger Cats for a long, long time. And we've seen so many times along the way we go, wow, this is the turning point. And I wonder if we're going to look back on this in a few years and say, you know when the Canadian Football League really took a turn for the worse?

It was at the 2018 Grey Cup when it lost a million viewers. So much of that, of course, is the fact no Argos in the Grey Cup. And because the Argos stunk early and often... You're being charitable. I'm being charitable. First of all, I struggle with this because I had a couple of brothers who love football. Like, just love...

Won't touch the CFL. Don't touch it. I have a softer spot for the CFL. Like, I root for them because it's Canadian. Like, I want them to succeed. At the same time, every time I go to a game, I was comped the ticket. I never open my wallet and comp up cash

for this. So you're to blame. I'm partially to blame. At least I'm there filling seats. It looks better on TV. I'm in the BMO field. There's bodies in it. But this whole idea, I have this... Freddie P. from Humble and Fred is a Buddy, and we have this argument all the time,

but he's living in the 70s when he loved his Argos as much as he loved his Leafs at Exhibition Stadium. But the argument is this. I will suggest to Fred that nobody I know in my circle actually cares at all about the CFL. And Fred will tell me the TV ratings suggest I'm wrong. The TV ratings, he will say, suggest that. Yeah, they've been falling back on that one. But is it Canada that supports?

Like, why are the television ratings typically so much higher than, for example, like that Raptors game? Raptors, which are fantastic right now. TFC, for example, which I think is more popular right now in this city than Argos. What makes those TV ratings for CFL so strong? Well, I think there's CFL ratings in Toronto and then there's CFL ratings everywhere else. And there's a CFL in Toronto and there's a CFL everywhere else.

And I'm not exactly sure on the TV ratings. I think they've been hurting. I mean, really, you've got now a league in which it cannot sell out games even close in its three largest cities, Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver. So you can't sell tickets in those cities. So that is a major, major problem for that league. I mean, I think people have you know, people have often said,

you know, the CFL is like pornography. People don't admit it, but they watch it. Um, you know, and I think that's true, but I'm kind of like you in my circle. Um, I know one committed, one committed CFL fan, my buddy Scooter, who season's tickets to the Hamilton Tirecats, and he is committed to it. But he's the only one I know. I had four tickets to an Argo game earlier this year. I couldn't get anybody to go with me. Now, maybe that's a reflection on me. But I couldn't even force family members to do it.

So, I mean, I'm a bit like you. I'm a bit rooted in, or a bit like your buddy, I'm kind of rooted in the 70s. That's when, you know, my, and I feel like I'm a CFL loyalist, but at the same time, I'm also a realist. And when I see, you know, what was the game a couple of weeks ago, the Rams and the,

whoever it was, go to 35-35 and, you know, know part way through the game I think that the CFL has lost its identity as this gunslinging wild league and when you say it's a Canadian league yeah it's a Canadian league they're in Canadian cities and half the team is Canadian but it's also run mostly by Americans with mostly American stars so I think the Canadiana aspect of it has been lost a little bit too. I mean, you've kind of made the case for the star here because if nobody's interested in this city in a game, why send somebody to Edmonton and put them up for the night? I kind of get it.

But at the same time, I have to say I am still kind of shocked that to me that's not a lot of money. Maybe I have no idea how you sports journalists travel. I have no idea. But you got to get someone to Edmonton, and they need to spend a night or two in Edmonton. I just feel like it's bad optics not to send someone to Canada's... Bad optics for who? For the star, like for the Toronto Star.

It's one thing not to stop sending somebody to... Kevin McGrann might not be sent to see the Sharks versus Leafs in San Jose. That's one thing. But I don't think... My understanding is I don't think the star is traveling at all anymore with any of its teams. I asked... So McGrann was just on.

That's why it's all fresh in my head. But he says now if there's a game in Pittsburgh or something or in Buffalo. Right, right. So things have changed. And you know what, you say it's not that expensive. It's not that expensive, but times are tough. Times are tough.

And why are times tough? Well, because of what's happened in the industry, what's happened to classified, what's happened to readership, what's happened to how people consume their news, what people are willing to pay for. And if people aren't willing to pay for newspapers, the newspapers can't afford to pay to send people to events that readers want. So it becomes a vicious circle. We'll see how this new paywall works out for the Star, because I know they have the new paywall. I mean, you're right. You've got to pay for it if you want it. And I will say I did read that the federal government

did announce some $600 million in some kind of tax incentives. They call it a bailout. I'm not sure. I don't know the specifics yet. I don't know. And I think a lot of us are waiting to find out exactly how that's going to work. But I think to some degree it's symbolic. And I think it's important for two reasons.

One, we all support the CBC. But at the same time the cbc is often a direct competitor to some of these private businesses sure start up a bit of music while i'm talking yeah and so i think it's important to make that regulation say sure it's great to fund the cbc but maybe you should fund some of the people that it's competing with. And the other thing is, too, is I think as we're seeing in the United States, news and newspapers are important in this era of quote-unquote fake news and all of that.

And if we lose that, we will lose something very important to Canada. Agreed. Now, why am I playing some Italian dinner music here? Because I want to give you some gifts. You're right. What's new since you were last here here? Because I want to give you some gifts. You're right. What's new since you were last here is I have more gifts to give you. Okay.

So let me start with the frozen lasagna in the red box right here. Oh, yeah? You're taking that home with you. Really? I can put it on my head. Yeah, actually. You might have to. Let the swelling go down.

That's a good point. I'm glad I had it on standby here. Wow. So that is courtesy of Palma's Pasta. Palma's Pasta, they're Mississauga's best fresh pasta in Italian food. So they've got four locations. They're in Mississauga and Oakville. How did I say that?

Oakville. I'm most excited about Palma's Kitchen. That's the new branding there. They have a new location called Palma's Kitchen near Mavis in Burnhamthorpe. And you got to check this place out. You get hot and fresh food. There's a retail store. There's like places to sit down and eat.

They got nice fresh coffee, pizza, everything. It's amazing. So go to palmapasta.com to find out a specific address and get your butt to Palma Pasta. Damien, that's going to feed many mouths. I'm telling you, that's good stuff. That'll almost feed half my children. How many children you got again? I have four.

Yeah, me too. So there you go. No, thank you. This will be consumed very quickly, I can assure you. There's also a six-pack of Great Lakes beer in front of you. And I like beer. And the local craft beer is the best. That's the fresh stuff.

Yep. And you're an Etobicoke guy. Yep. You're no longer a Hamiltonian. You're now an Etobicokean. And, of course, they're in South Etobicoke, Great Lakes, so right down the street from the Costco. Well, thank you.

Again, with the beer drinkers in my clan, this will... Oh, that looks interesting. An English ale. That's a pompous ass. Yeah, I've become more of a craft beer drinker. So I will definitely give this a try. Thank you. Great Lakes is a...

All kinds of gifts. Do I go now? Well, if you go now, I guess I can't stop you. But the good stuff is still to come here. Great Lakes is a fiercely independent craft brewery located in Etobicoke. And Damien, as you know, 99.9% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario.

GLB, brewed for you, Ontario. I'm getting hungry just listening to that music and thinking of it. Imagine that. That's a good combo, eh? The lasagna and it pairs nicely with the craft beer. Makes me think of one of my favorite movies, Moonstruck.

Yeah, yeah, sure, of course. Of course, of course. Did she win an, no, Olympia Dukakis, I think. Olympia Dukakis won an Oscar in that. Yeah, I think she did. And I remember her... And what's his name is, Vincent, what's his name is, Olympia Dukakis' husband is fantastic.

So that's one of my favorites. Yeah, that is a great movie. It's funny. Cher can play lots of different characters. She's playing Italian in that movie. She's sort of a chameleon. I think the last thing I've seen her in, or the most recent thing,

is isn't she in the new Mamma Mia movie? Oh, maybe. That doesn't look too good. This song wasn't in Moonstruck. No. It could have been, though. It's a great jam. Chamber Brothers, Remember the Time.

Damien, on this day in 1927. So on this day in 1927. How would I remember? Even before your time. Vin Scully was born. Oh, geez. And that was 91 years ago. So Vin Scully is 91.

As you know, he called Dodgers games for 67 years. And that's actually the longest tenure of any broadcaster with a single team in professional sports history. But you want to know a fun fact off the top of my head? Where was he born? I don't know. Probably Missouri. That's a guess, though.

I have no idea. I can tell you that Tommy Lasorda was actually with the Dodgers organization two years before Vin Scully got there. So Vin doesn't get the record for most time with a single organization, but Vin gets the record for most time for a broadcaster. But here's the record for most time for a broadcaster.

But here's the thing I want to play for us, because everybody, of course, we remember Joe Carter hitting the walk-off homer in 93 against the Phillies. Wild thing. We all know Tom Cheek's call. It's legendary. Touch him, old Joe. You'll never hit a bigger homer on your life. And we all know the TV

call, because we all watched it. Is it Tim McCarver, I think? Could have been, yeah And we all know the TV call because we all watched it. Is it Tim McCarver, I think? Could have been, yeah. We all remember the TV call. We all know the Tom Cheek call. But did you know that Vin Scully called this for radio? You want to hear the Vin Scully call?

Absolutely. I've never heard this. I uncovered it doing my research here on Vin, so here it is. This crowd has hollered itself weak. Henderson at second, Molitor at first, one out in the ninth, 6-5 Philadelphia. Stottle, Meyer, and Castillo throwing in case of extra innings. Fastball is hit to left field, down the line, in the corner, home run!

I get chills, man. This was amazing. I'm not sure we get more dim but are you at this game? No. I thought I heard you in the crowd. I'm sure I was at some Leaf game or something at that time.

Oh yeah. Is that the year we won the 10 in a row? Yeah. What a magical. We're going to get to that of course. But I will say that I get chills listening to that and I'd never heard it until the first time I heard it was last night.

And I'm like, we got to play this. Like Vin Scully called. I had no idea Vin Scully. Now, why are you researching Vin Scully? Are you going to get him on the show?

Could I? By the way, that audio sounded like it was from 1927. I'm listening. Really? That sounds like it was like Babe Ruth was hitting

a homer or something. Like that sounds really old and rusty. But Remember the Time is brought to you by Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. They've been doing quality watch and jewelry repairs for over 30 years. You might remember, Damien, the watch repair outlets that were in Sears. You'd go to a Sears to get your watch battery swapped out. Do you have any memories, any foggy memories?

No, he's thinking. Sears. I'm trying to remember where the Sears was in your watch battery swapped out. Do you have any memories, any foggy memories? No, he's thinking. Sears. I'm trying to remember where the Sears was in Hamilton growing up. I remember the Wright House downtown at Gore Park. So maybe they had a watch department. But the Sears watch department was actually Fast Time. So they had to go by the name Sears, but then Sears

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Milan told me they never do this, but you get 15% off if you tell them that you heard about them on Toronto Mic'd, which is pretty cool. All right, so I'm listening to Vin Scully call that home run, and I'm getting chills, and I'm thinking of Tom Cheek and how many nights I fell asleep listening to Tom and Jerry call Blue Jay games.

My question for you, Damien, is do the Blue Jays right now, do the Blue Jays have a voice right now? So we have Jerry retired. Tom is gone, obviously. Yes, for sure, sadly. But currently,

there's a bunch of different voices out there. I don't know what your thoughts are on this, but I feel like one guy doing... I just feel like right now, I'm not sure. Ben Wagner came from the Bisons and he's doing some work. Wilner still does some stuff

and there's... Shulman will sometimes do some stuff and of course he's the best in the business, but, uh. So Dan, who's a friend of mine, I think he is as closely associated as any sort of voice of the Blue Jays, but I agree with you in that, in that way. And I'm not sure that's not the voice, the way

of the future in a lot of ways because so many broadcasters are, are doing different things and everything has got so uh fragmented um and i think buck martinez is certainly a voice that i associate with the blue jays um you know i i think like many broadcasters and haven't been in the broadcasting business um you know you're open to criticism but i'm one of the guys i i can listen to to buck and Pat Tabler when they work together. And I love hearing Dan and Buck together.

So is there a voice of the team? Probably not the way there was. But, you know, I mean, I think that was from born of a certain time. That was longevity, Tom and Jerry, you know, that really, you know, isn't, well, we'll see if it happens again. It also helps that your team has success. It sure does. And I mean, now I'm thinking of the Leafs,

like, okay, so we have a radio voice of the Leafs because it's always Joe Bowen. Congratulations to Joe on the Hockey Hall of Fame. Holy mackinaw. Yep. And then, yeah, well, TV again is fragmented for a bunch of reasons. But, yeah, by the way, what did you think of Paul Romanek? Like, Paul Romanek's no longer.

I like Paul. Yeah. They let him go, but he did a conference final last year. Yeah. They didn't bring him back. So, I mean, these decisions get made, as I can tell you. These decisions get made, and you don't always know why. And I think Paul should probably speak for himself.

I think Paul is always a guy who has not been afraid to speak his mind. And maybe that got him in a little bit of trouble. I don't know. I like Paul's call. I think he does a really good job. And again, right now, I think, you know, you, you look across the country and you hear the games and there are some great voices out there, both for Sportsnet and TSN.

I'm not sure that I'd say that, that guy is the guy. You know, Bob Cole is still doing some games and he's the Dean of. Well, he's the Vin Scully of hockey. Yeah, he sure is. And I'll tell you, there's a little side story for you. Is the, I had a little, I told you about our dinner the other night. Well, we had a great golf outing last year out in Halifax.

And it was me. I've always managed to insert myself in this. Me, Shannon again. It's always me and Shannon. And Jack Armstrong and Bob Cole. Get that garbage out of here. That would be amazing. That was a great 18.

It was hot that day at Brunello out in Halifax. But it was great playing golf with those couple of guys. It's interesting that so you and Shannon and then you, on one dinner there's Brunt and Hodge, which is sort of just amazing. I just wish I could come and record it. And then you have the golf thing, and you got Bob Cole and Jack Armstrong.

Like, amazing, man. There were some stories told. I bet. So what is your thoughts on what I refer to as they're retiring. Bob Cole's not retiring. They're retiring Bob Cole. So if it was me, and if I was the new Scott Moore,

and I was making the call, I would keep Bob Cole on and I'd have him do some number of games. Whatever that number of games is, I would keep him on. The decisions that they make are different and they have to make their decisions. And I'm not privy to all the factors that are part of their decisions. But I'm a huge Bob Cole fan. I think he is the voice and the sound of hockey in this country, and I don't even know who's second. So that would be me, but strangely enough, they haven't put me in charge yet. I'm with you. I do know because Scott Moore was on this show last month. Did he explain the decision to you? Yeah, he explained that Bob is advanced in his age. It's tough to do the traveling,

he's slipping a little bit, and sometimes people don't know when to step away, and they're retiring. Yeah, I mean, I hear all that, and I think my answer, and when Scott and I, when I think I've said it to him, I don't really give a shit.

Excuse my language. No, you can swear on this show. Like, I just want to hear Bob. The cadence, right? We want the, yeah, the sense of the moment. Well, I just want to hear Bob. The cadence, right? It's like we want the, yeah, the sense of the moment. Well, I don't really care what he gets right or what he gets wrong or what he, you know, I just want to hear Bob. That's fine by me.

I mean, everybody makes mistakes. I hear mistakes of guys who are considered among the top in the game. They make mistakes too. And so, but again, there are things that I don't even know about that they have to make these decisions based upon.

So I'm just saying if it was me, I'd keep Bob Cole on the air. So from what I've been told from Scott and others, Bob Cole will call his last game in December. And although they haven't

announced which one, I asked Scott Moore straight up, I said, it better be a Leaf game, and he said, I'd be surprised if it wasn't. So I envision a Saturday night Leaf game in December. So of the number of years since Sportsnet took over

the NHL hockey, I think there have been a lot of struggles. And I thought that what they did last Saturday was among the very best things they've done, where they really had everything coordinated. And you see, I think, a coordination between different platforms now in SportsNet

that didn't necessarily exist before. So they did that exceptionally well. And I would be hopeful that they would do that same kind of effort would go forward when Bob does his final game. We're going to miss that voice. He should podcast. Maybe that's what we'll get him doing. I get to play golf with him once in a while.

I get to hear his voice. Yeah. What an honor that is. No, I'm super jealous, man. I'm super jealous of both of those, that dinner you just had with Hodge and Brunt. How do I not get an invitation? By the way, Shannon, you mentioned Shannon now a couple times.

He's never been on the show, but I've written him emails and he doesn't reply. So next time you're having dinner with Shannon, tell him. That sounds like Shani. Yeah, tell him either yes or no. I'll send him a text right now and I'll tell him. Tell him John Shannon. You know why I need him. I'm kind of fascinated by the pen flip that Dave Hodge did.

So I had a great discussion with Dave Hodge about it. Ron McLean was there that night, and I had a great chat with him about it. Ken Daniels was working that night, and I had a great chat with his perspective on it. And Paul Romanuk, speaking of Paul, he was there that night because he was working at Hocking in Canada in some capacity and he was there. So I've had all those people

tell me their kind of history of that moment, what they remember and all the details and I collect it. But Shannon is a guy who was apparently there that night

and I would like to get him on. Well, you're going to need a longer show if you're going to get John Shannon on. Because John is kind of amazing in my mind in that he's really had two careers. He's had one as a television executive, and now he's having one as a broadcaster,

which is an amazing career change. I'm not sure there's anybody out there who's done that like he's done it. But he knows where all the bodies are buried, and he knows where he's with Hockey Night in Canada way, way, way back. I mean, the decisions to bring Don Cherry on and Dave Hodge. Well, he was there for the pen flips.

Yeah, he was. So, yeah, I would, I'll try to put it. You text him. You know what? Tell him there's lasagna, and he might come. Well, I don't know, because I don't know if he's getting my emails. But you text him while I tell everybody how to get

$10 right now. So if you want $10 and why wouldn't you? Damien really is texting, by the way. I'm just reporting to everybody. PayTM. It's an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot. You can download that app right now at paytm.ca. I use it to pay

all of my bills. And then I pay all my bills on my MasterCard because I get points for free groceries on my MasterCard. And Paytm lets me do that even if the property taxes says they don't accept credit card. You can use Paytm as your conduit to get that done. It's really amazing. But here's the thing. If you use the promo code Toronto Mike, all one word, when you make your first bill payment, they give you $10 in Paytm cash right away. And you can use that towards another bill, or you can go get a reward purchase, like, I don't know, a gift card from whatever, Tim Hortons or whatever. So just use the promo code Toronto

mic. There's no fees to use Paytm. There's no additional costs. It's just super convenient and awesome. So thank you Paytm for your support. And Census Design and Build, they provide architectural design, interior design, and turnkey construction services across the GTA. To learn more about the possibilities for your home, call them at 416-931-1422 or go to censusdesignbuild.ca to schedule your zoning and cost project feasibility study. Damien, have we heard a reply yet from John Shannon? Not yet, but there you can see I've sent him a text and I sent him a picture as well. Oh, cool. He knows you're not a bot or something.

Awesome, because I can handle a no. The lack of answer is a pain in the butt because I don't know how often he does. He's a celebrity. Apparently. I only have celebrities on this show. Let him know. He'd be following Damien Cox and Tom Wilson.

So there's big, big names here. I'll just let that go. I'm going to play a question from Brian Gerstein. Questions? Yeah. I saw you put questions on Twitter. Did you get many requests? Yeah, a couple.

I got one coming up from Mike Grigoski. I got a couple more. But there's a couple of people who actually recorded their question, and we're going to hear it in their voice. So this is Brian Gerstein. He is a real estate sales representative of PSR Brokerage, and I can't wait to hear your reply to this one because it's very interesting. Let's listen to Brian.

Hey, Damien. Brian Gerstein here, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Night. If you call or text me at 416-873-0292, I will reply back with the latest real estate trend market stats, plus an update on how condos are doing for both selling and renting. both selling and renting. Damien, let's go back to April 25th, 2013, a day that will live in infamy when you blocked me on Twitter. You wrote, Bozak out for the Leafs tonight, undisclosed injury. I replied back, come on, you can't even get it narrowed down to an upper or lower body injury. What kind of reporter are you anyways? My comment was a sarcastic one to you which you interpreted as me mocking you which i wasn't have you mellowed in your middle age and are more tolerant on twitter relaxing your blocking or are you still the same thick skin hard ass you were

back then i think he meant thin skin not thick skin skin. No comment. I will say that Brian brought the heat. Usually the questions are, you know, I thought he was going to ask you a tennis question because he loves your coverage of tennis. We'll get to that in a minute. But this is real talk. I can't wait for the reply. So I can't say I remember it exactly.

It sounds right. It sounds like something I would do. This might make him feel better. First of all, I don't know if I'm in middle age. I don't know like something I would do. This might make him feel better. First of all, I don't know if I'm in middle age. I don't know what age I'm in. Second of all, I don't block people on Twitter anymore. You mute them. I mute them.

You've discovered the deep, right? I know, which to me is eminently more satisfactory. So you and I have had this discussion about Twitter again, and I don't really want to go down all those discussions again, but I will say, to me, and this is my view of my Twitter account, if you're interacting with me on Twitter, you are a friend. You are interested in what I have to say or what I'm reading or what I'm retweeting. And if you're

not, then you don't follow. So maybe that's a naive, rose-colored way to look at Twitter. But that's the way I look at it. And so if people want to use it to take shots at me, which obviously I interpreted that he didn't mean. But it is tough to read sarcasm in tweets. Yeah, and so after a while, you know what, and sometimes I think people have to understand, when that's the 30th of the day

in that thing, you just start going, I don't want to hear any of this anymore. But you can tell him if he tells me what his Twitter account is, I'll unblock him. Raptor's devotee. And I'll send you that in an email so you don't have to memorize it. But Raptors Devotee on Twitter

wants to be unblocked. It's time. It sounds like he's been carrying this since 2013. Five years. It's time. Yeah. Set him free. Well, we can give it another try. Are you friendly with Jeff Blair? Yeah. That son of a gun blocked me, believe it or not. What'd you do? Nothing. I was copied on someone else's crappy reply,

and he just blocked all of us. The baby was chucked with the bathwater. But you know what? I think it's also people's right to block me, too. So I don't really worry about that stuff too much. Anyways, I'll see what I can do, and we'll have a fresh start. Thanks, Brian. Speaking of tennis, Damien, Mike Rogoski's question is,

can you ask Damien what he thinks of the new Davis Cup format? Awful. Elaborate. This comes into effect in 2019, right? Yeah. So we just had, it just ended. Croatia just won. So it does end.

It does end. I just thought it was one forever going Davis Cup. So here's what I don't like about it. It's that, and not everybody, and people are confused by Davis Cup, and I think there had to be changes. The problem is with the new changes, for example, Canada is going to play on the road

in February. And if we, they may not, it's possible that we may not see the Canadian Davis Cup team play on Canadian soil for years. For years. Like they won't, if they win and get through, then they'll play in the big season finale next year in Europe. So we won't see them next year in Canada. So then we go to 2020. They could start on the road again in 2020.

And then we wouldn't see them. And if they make it, we just may not see Milos Raonic and Dennis Schapovallis and Vasek Pospisil playing Canada. Now, some of the greatest Canadian Davis Cup stories have taken place overseas. I was privileged to be at one in Israel a number of years ago, which was incredible, one of the great sporting experiences of my life. But I think that in recent years playing at home has allowed canadian tennis fans to see these guys so from a canadian perspective

i don't really like it um and i just think it's lost a lot of its individual personality and the result is more a result of the feud between the ATP and the ITF versus anything that tennis, the tennis industry in general wants. Are you the de facto Sportsnet tennis guy right now? I'm just thinking. No, Arash will tell you he is. Just ask Arash. Truro Arash is what I thought. Try to say that really quickly.

Truro Arash. I've been. Try to say that really quickly. Truro Arash. I've been to Truro. Yeah, me too. I went to, Arash recommended a pizza place there. I went to, and I was going to PEI. Yeah, I passed through Truro on the way to my cottage. That's all I used Truro for. So you have a cottage out east?

In Prince Edward Island, yeah. Okay. I made my first trip to Prince Edward Island a couple years ago, and it was amazing. I didn't know you had a cottage in Prince Edward Island. It's a special place. So close to Newfoundland. You can make that happen.

Exactly. I think I'll just move out there. Kayak. Can you kayak there? Okay. Yeah. So, no, I don't. We actually have a great tennis group.

Brad Fay is involved, Arash Murdani, Robert Bettauer, Rob Falds, Jimmy Arias. Carolyn Cameron is on that group. Carolyn Cameron, Sharon Fitchman a number of people Jesse Levine so we have a whole bunch of people I write about it probably more than anybody else

because you mentioned Brad Fay I need to ask did he ever hit his 100 Bruce Springsteen milestone I don't know he was at like 97 when he came in to kick out of the jam well it was kind of ridiculous because I got to see since we've last talked i got to see springsteen on broadway in new york in june um and i felt a little ridiculous that i got to see it before brad fay like there should have been a lineup based on your devotion and there are a few uh

springsteen fans more devoted than than brad fay so i don't know because I know he was going down to New York, but he's so busy chasing around the Raptors the other day. We haven't golfed and we haven't talked. Now, because we mentioned Bruce, I just need to tell you that when you do find time for episode 399 of Tom Wilson and you really should listen to it, he tells this Bruce Springsteen story. So I'll just

tease it by saying Bruce Springsteen's tits. That's how I'm teasing this story. You need to hear this story. It's incredible. Okay. Speaking of the boss. And I'm going to, I'll have to tweet at Brad later and find out if he hit 100.

I bet you he has at this point. I bet you he's had over 100 Bruce Springsteen concerts. Another question for you, Damien, from Jason. He says that you and Greg Brady have great chemistry during your segment once a week. And he wants to know if you'd ever consider doing the morning show. Is that because you don't wake up at that ungodly hour? No, I mean, it's funny, you know. The last time I left as Bob McCowan's co-host, that was actually the third or maybe even the fourth time

I've been his co-host. And so I go back to 92 or 93 on the fan, and I've had so many various incarnations, including doing the morning show a number of times with Gord Stelic and other people. So I would love to do the morning show, but they'd have to move it to the afternoon because it's just too early. This Jason gentleman has worked it all out.

He says you could move Elliot Price to the Jeff Blair show. He's already making space for you and you come in. He likes you and Greg together that much. Well, that's nice of him to say. And I like working with Greg too and Greg is really knowledgeable and has got a lot of facts. But only with Detroit

sports, right? Well, he's pretty knowledgeable so you got to be on your toes and I like what they've done with him and Elliot and Hugh Burrell. So I go on pretty much every Tuesday morning and join those guys and I like that but boy, morning radio is such a huge life commitment. I'm just not sure that that's where I'd want to go right now.

Greg's wife was recently on this show. Rachel. Rachel Brady from the Globe and Mail. She's done well. Greg's been on a few times. I saw him recently, fairly recently, at a Wolfpack match. Have you made your Wolfpack debut yet? I have not.

It's quite entertaining. I bet it is. There's so many things. I know. fairly recently at a Wolfpack match. Have you made your Wolfpack debut yet? I have not, no. It's quite entertaining. I bet it is. There's so many things. I know. I know. That's why it's so tough at the Argos because, I mean, you've got TFC. I mean, we're going to talk a little briefly.

I won't ask you about Nylander and all the predictable things you get asked about when you do your real hits for your real job or whatever. But it is kind of a wonderful time in Toronto sports right now. We got our least for the Raptors and Leafs. Raptors and the Leafs too, in particular. And I mean, I think that, you know,

there's possibilities of a championship in both those situations. Could you imagine? Could the city handle both happening after this kind of a drought? I mean, Joe Carter is, because I happen to, with all due respect, I take the MLS Cup and the Grey Cup aside. I move it aside. So I look at the big three and we haven't had a parade since 93.

Yeah. A long time ago. Yeah, and I think the Blue Jays were sort of looking like they might be the team closest. I remember asking this question about two or three years ago. Which team do you think is going to win first,

the Leafs, the Raptors, or the Blue Jays? And many people thought the Blue Jays were right there, and now obviously they're 5-6. And they were right there because two ALCSs in a row, and now they're not.

Years away. By the way, the answer to that question, I believe the Leafs have the best chance of winning the title. I think that's right now. And they've got a lot of talent,

and they really play it. I think they've got a lot of talent and they really play it. I think they've got a chance, maybe this year. It's always if everybody stays healthy. If Anderson can play as well in April and May as he's playing. And I'll tell you, they've got to either get Nylander back or they've got to trade him. They can't have him just sit out the year. What is this, Thursday?

Okay, so we don't have... It's Saturday at 5 o'clock. Has Rogers planned their countdown show yet? I can see a countdown show starting at noon to 5. Go nuts with Nylander. I can see Jeff Merrick and Friedman and everybody's just talking. I can see it now, man.

Well, the one thing, it's interesting, you know, we can talk all day about the evolution of sports media in general and in Toronto. The one thing that has come clear to me, this one, because I remember covering holdouts and various things. I'm Eric Lindros in the early 90s and contract negotiations. That's the big one, yeah. And the big difference now between then and now, nobody knows what's going on.

No, I know. And so we hear and read and listen to people like me pontificate about this and that. And here's what I think. Nobody knows. Nobody has any information. The Leaf Organization, which used to be the leakiest ship in the world, you can't get any information. The Leaf Organization, which used to be the leakiest ship in the world, you can't get any information

out of these guys. No one knows what Nylander thinks or his father or his agent. Amazing. And so I just, I'm, it's got to be frustrating compared, there used to be, you could get sources and get guys who were informed, who could say,

okay, here's what's happening. I don't know what's going to happen, but here's what's happening now. Nobody knows what's going on with Nylander. Amazing. It is amazing. It's amazing with two days left, there's no leak of any type. And all the leaks, there have been leaks by people who apparently have terrible sources

and they've all been proven wrong. I've seen people say, oh, a signing is imminent in the next 48 hours, and that was like three weeks ago or whatever, so forget about it. And anyone who says, you might get lucky, like a blind,

I'm supposed to say the clock one for the fast time people, but a broken clock is right twice a day. Well, I think, and I used to remember, I used to laugh at a guy who used to say all the time about crazy rumors

that he would write in the paper. And he says, well, just because it didn't happen doesn't mean that it wasn't talked about. Was that Marty York? I'm not going to say who it was, Al Strachan. But that used to be sort of, I always thought, well, that covers you for everything then, doesn't it? That's right, because you that's what I said. As the whole thing goes, when the whole thing is resolved, no one really. And there's a lot of really good reporters out there,

Elliott Freeman, Darren Drager, Bob McKenzie, guys who are really good hockey reporters out there who are really skilled in getting the information out. But in this case, and in a lot of cases now, teams have become much more skillful in how they control their information. And there's less of a desire among the newer hockey people in the business to feel like they want to talk to the media and use the media to their own ends. And so there's, in this specific situation, it's been a real eye opener. Nobody knows.

And I think it helps that it's all happening overseas. Like, is he in Switzerland working out or something like that? Sweden, Switzerland, yeah. Yeah, but I know he's Swedish, but I think I read he was in Switzerland skating with a team or whatever. But I think that helps too. It's unlike, you know, yeah, it's a vault. We don't know what's going on,

but we have, you know, whatever, two days left to find out. Oh, goody. Yeah, I know. Well, in this new CBA, this is the longest holdout ever in the new CBA. Is it in the new? Well, it's not a holdout.

I used that term. Okay, what is it exactly? Well, they haven't agreed to a contract. He doesn't have a contract. Okay. So if I don't go to work for, I have a contract with Rogers, but if I don't have a contract with Rogers and I don't show up to do a radio hit,

you can't say I'm holding out. I don't have a contract. And Nylander doesn't have a contract. So he's not a radio hit. You can't say I'm holding out. I don't have a contract. And Nylander doesn't have a contract. So he's not a holdout. I'm a little selfish in this one. I wouldn't mind if it happened tonight because I'm going to be in Minnesota tomorrow and covering the team on the next couple of days.

So I wouldn't mind if it happened while I was on my watch. You know, Shanahan is a Mimico guy. I can probably talk to him. You have some influence? And he went to my high school. Did he? He's a little older, but he was there before I You have some influence? And he went to my high school. He's a little older, but he was there before I got there. But yeah, he went to my high school. So I'll see what I can do.

I'll see what I can do. Okay, now that's... Earlier you alluded to the fact that you're not on Primetime Sports anymore. So last time you were here, you were a co-host. Well, I was on a couple of weeks ago, but I'm not a regular co-host yet. When you were on a couple of weeks ago, was Bob Macau in there?

Yeah. Okay, very good. I'm not a regular co-host. When you were on a couple of weeks ago, was Bob Macau in there? Yeah. Okay. Very good. I'm going to play a Scott Moore clip, and then we're going to hear from you, the horses. So this is actually Scott Moore on my show. I don't know how long ago. Before he went to Australia and just before his last day at Rogers. I don't know. A month ago, I'd say. But let's listen to Scott here.

Please tell me, what happened with Damien Cox? He was on primetime sports, and then suddenly he wasn't. Very vague on Twitter. By the way, I like Cox on Twitter because he's got personality. There's a lot of tweeters that are not worth your follow, but Cox is not one of them. But can you share with us why he's no longer heard on primetime sports?

Damien's terrific. I'm Primetime Sports. Damien, Damien's terrific. I'm a big fan of Damien's. He does a great job for us on tennis, does a great job for us in studio. I would say that the chemistry between he and Bob just wasn't there. But they have worked together a long time. It deteriorated at some point. The thing about doing radio,

and it's similar in television, but it's not quite the same. In radio, you are together in a studio, just the two of you, for hours and hours and hours on end. And it's like a good marriage. There's going to be ups and downs. Sure.

I always tell people that work on Olympics with me that Olympics is similar, that it doesn't matter which side of the camera you're on, that you're together for 14, 16 hours a day. And it doesn't matter if that person is your brother, your sister, or your best friend. At some point during the Olympics, you're going to turn and look at that person and hate every fiber of their being because you've been working so hard with them. And in radio, when you're doing a three-hour show together, there are times that you have your ups and downs. Like a lot of other people, I would not be surprised

if Damien showed back up on Primetime Sports at some point. He continues to be an important part of what we do at Sportsnet. Your response, Damien? Well, I'm flattered. That's very nice of him to say. I would basically agree. I think there's a lot of details there that are kind of left off. I think, first of all, our situation,

both Bob and I were complicated by our contractual situations, which I'm not going to get into his and I don't really want to get into mine, but that made it a bit of a problem. In terms of on the air, Bob and I are both strong personalities and we clash.

There is no question about it. And that's why, like I said, I think that was my third or fourth time through as co-host. And I wouldn't, if you sat here and said, guarantee you won't go back at co-host again. And I said, I would never guarantee that because it's happened so many times.

I like Bob as a broadcaster and I've always enjoyed working with him except on the days where I really hated working with him. So I'd say that, yeah, I mean, I think he's about right. And I think Brunt's been through the same thing as I have.

On this show, his first time on, Brunt, I asked him straight out, would he ever work on Primetime again with Bob McCowan? And I got a quote because I pulled it, and it's funny now. But he said something to the effect of, no, I don't think that will ever happen. I don't think I will ever co-host with Bob McCowan again

on Primetime Sports. And then, of course, now he's back as a co-host. Yeah, and I mean, when he left, I mean, he'll tell you his own thing. He was mad. And I was probably unhappy. I would have. But on the other hand, you know, I say that in the same team under the, again, it's messy, it's contractual.

I wasn't prepared to simply continue as it was. So that's why we're not on right now. But I went in a couple weeks ago. Bob was nice enough to promote my new book. And then I stayed for the show. And I think I'm on in two weeks or a week and a half or something like that. So it's not too frosty or anything. I mean, you're not in his book.

Wilner can't get on that show. I mean, there's a book, right? There's a McCowan book. No. I mean, Bob and I have golfed together and then we've not spoken for two years. I mean, it's just that's the nature of our relationship. I

think I certainly respect him as a... We're not pals. We've been friendly many times in the past and look, Bob is what he is in the business and our personalities are what they are So look, Bob is what he is in the business. And our personalities are what they are. And neither of us is likely to back down.

And when we get pissed at each other, it tends to last. And I think people can probably tell on the air. So I agree with Scott in that having two guys who are obviously ticked at each other on the air is not good radio. And I think that happened a little bit. And then things changed. But sometimes that's pretty good radio. Sometimes. Sometimes. I like, I guess, I mean,

you're talking to a guy who was, I think I was the lone member of the Glenn Healy fan club and that I thought he was great. Okay, we have two of us. Good. You wouldn't know it from Twitter. You would think, you know, we were the only two.

Yeah, I don't judge a lot. Don't judge us. That's right. I think, yeah. So I'm going to tie it to Romanuk because Twitter doesn't like Romanuk either. Maybe they were hurt or something. But Glenn Healy said something. You know what I mean?

Like he had opinions and he had an interesting personality. And I feel like what we want everybody to be like, like milk toast. Like, I don't understand. What do we want from our broadcasters now? I mean, we've never really talked about being on Hockey Night in Canada and then not being on Hockey Night in Canada. And both, so myself, Glenn Healy,

George Strombolopoulos. PJ Stock? PJ Stock. We all exited from around the same time. And I think if you list those four people, there's something in common between those four people. And if I have a concern for that show, and again, this is my opinion.

Yeah, of course. And what I like to see on television, what I like to see on sports broadcasting, is there was a decision that those people represented too much, they were too edgy. There was too much. Now people may disagree. They might just say, Cox, he's just bad.

And that's people's... Polarizing? Is that a word you could apply? Yeah, polarizing, edgy, all those sorts of things. And then a lot of that also came down to financial and contractual things. a lot of that also came down to financial and, and, and contractual things.

But, um, uh, I, I worry sometimes about the vanilla isation of sports broadcasting in general, and I'm not going to change and healing ain't going to change and PJ ain't going to change and

Strombo is sure isn't going to change. Um, so if they decided that that's not what they wanted the show to be about they decided they had to move those people what did you think of strombo uh yeah i've never asked you this question uh what do you think of him as a host so uh first of all i mean i like george i think he's bright um and creative my belief is that they didn't give him enough of a chance and my belief also and and i hope that george doesn't take this the wrong way if he hears this and i'm sure he will is he didn't pour himself enough of himself into the job to warrant more of a chance i think um he was

because of who he is and was he had so many other things going on and it gave the perception out that this, it was just one of the things he does. He's big in music, so. Exactly. Right. So, whereas Ron McClain, love him or hate him, you said that he is pouring himself into that job

every Saturday night. That's what he does. He's, it's an important job and he gives it his all. And I think that was part of it. But I also think that when the decision was made to go with George by Keith Pelley and Scott and whoever, I think that they needed to, um, both support him more and also, uh, to my mind, um, get him to be part of the group and not be such an individual on his own.

And I think he ended up, the clothing ended up attracting so much attention. And it took away from his broadcasting skills, his passion, his energy, his intelligence. It's funny that some people get a pass. Like Don Cherry, that's not a knock on him. Like Don Cherry's clothing to some people. Okay.

Yeah. But Don Cherry, I mean, but he was established in the job and for, you know, decades. And I think George over time, um, with more support, more, come on, George, you got to be part of what we're doing here and more effort from him. I think he would have succeeded in the job. It's interesting that I don't believe George has ever commented in public about, I don't believe about this dismissal. And I mean, I asked Scott, like Scott says he hasn't heard, hasn't spoken a word to George since this all went down or whatever. Yeah, I believe that.

I haven't talked to George. Yeah, I mean, I had George on while he was at Hockey Night, so I have not had him on this show since he left Hockey Night. Yeah, I'd be interested to see what he thinks. And, I mean, George is not a vindictive, nasty guy. And he's charting his own journey, and I

don't think he probably skipped the beat. I'm sure, like me, and like others, like, for me, it just, i was disappointed but i'm i certainly couldn't say oh they made the wrong decision or they did this or that i mean and i think george would have been disappointed but then i think he's probably moved on and you know on to different things oh yeah he's got a whole bunch of house of strombo stuff like i can tell where his passions are like yeah and i I think that would be part of it.

And George and I have talked about it. If he was sitting here right now, I would say, I never saw that passion for being the host of Hockey Night in Canada. And he would have said, but I felt it. And I said, okay, well, I never saw that. And you and I have talked about music and books and movies and all things. And I think if, I think if you're going to do that job, you've got to, you've got to communicate that kind of passion and commitment to the viewers, um, to be successful at it.

So, like I say, I, I'm a, I'm a George fan. I think ultimately he would have been successful. I think most people disagree with me. I think people thought he would have been successful. I think most people disagree with me. You know what, to be honest, I'm not sure. I think people thought he was a bad fit. I feel like part of the problem was where Ron McClain took over for Dave Hodge, but Dave Hodge went and got another gig, like left the building, you know what I mean? Ron McClain, who forever, for a long time, was our host of Hawking in Canada,

and we all loved him, and he didn't leave the company and go take another gig. He kind of moved aside, but he's still in the building, so to speak. I feel like it's tough to, when the guy you replace and everybody, people don't like change

to begin with. So I would say that, I mean, I know Dave Schultz has come out with a book on the whole hockey thing. Hockey Fight in Canada. I feel like I could write a book about the two years

that I was there involved with Hockey Night in Canada, which, by the way, one of the, and I've said this to Scott Moore, thank you for the opportunity. I got to be in Hockey Night in Canada. That was pretty cool. That a lot of things that were happening, because Rogers and Sportsnet was developing,

and a lot of things weren't weren't uh made well weren't done well and I would agree with you in that I think that the fact that Ron stayed on when George was trying to establish himself made it almost impossible for George to establish himself in fact if you recall because I was involved with hometown hockey the way it started was George would host Saturday night and then on Sunday, it was me and him and Healy and me and him and somebody else. We would be in studio at Sportsnet

and Ron was hosting from wherever he was. And so George was throwing to Ron. So I think we were in the place of going, well, who's running this thing here? Well, Bettman's running this thing, I think. Well, maybe. I wasn't privy to those conversations. So I think Ron is so successful, so famous, and so associated with that product that when he stayed, it made it really difficult for George.

And I think Ron, I don't think Ron is the kind of person that would go out and undercut George, but his mere presence, because he's such so well known and is so associated with the product, would have made it really difficult. I mean, let's face it now, in retrospect, it was a change that shouldn't have been made in the first place. And it was only made, and again, I didn't have Gary Bettman on the show, but I asked Ron McLean straight out about this, and he believes this to be true, that Gary Bettman asked for this. This was a ask from your partner in the NHL. Yeah, I mean, I don't know that, but certainly a lot of people believe that, so should the change ever have been made? I don't know. I mean, I'm not sure George was the first choice.

I think they wanted to make a change. No, it was James Duthie was the first choice. And I think if James Duthie had done it, maybe the story would have been different, right? I don't know. Because James is, again, another accomplished broadcaster, but with really good hockey, a really good reputation in hockey. So I don't know.

I mean, I think change always comes along, you know? And I've been part of it. I've benefited from it. I've not benefited from it. The only thing I know is that tomorrow they're going to publish the paper, whether I'm there or not, and tomorrow they're going to broadcast the game, whether I'm there or not.

They might not publish the paper, though. It might go all digital. Who knows? That could be tomorrow. I hope not. I don't know. I feel like that's an inevitability at some point. I feel.

You might be right. You might be right. I mean, and like for me, it's, I often talk about, so when I, you asked me before when I started the Toronto Star, when was that, 1985, I went to J school at Ryerson. I learned at Ryerson on a typewriter. That's how I learned the business. And now look at us.

And it's only 33 years. It is crazy. So I think to me, sports media and media in general has gone through an industrial revolution in the past. Wow. And it's not even over those 30 years. It's really over the past 15 that sports media has really gone through an industrial revolution. And there's no surprise that there's been a lot of casualties along the way. actually in your career but when you are just a person who writes for a publication uh that's no longer like all you can do it seems like now you gotta you're sort of like you're the videographer

you're you're the social media promoter you're taking photos like that there's so much more now than just your writing one of the great things about being in sports media for me is that yeah i was a reporter at the and columnist at the toronto star for 29 years um and i still get to uh write for them but i got to do everything i got to do radio i got to do television i got to do i mean i really not to pat myself on the back i've done is i've been as diversified as anybody's got to be it's sort of me and brunt you know two guys will do whatever we'll do whatever for money, you know. So radio, television, magazines, books.

The passion returns of EHS cassette. There you go. Television, be on Hockey Night in Canada, write for digital, do all kinds. Do this show with you. You know, do shows around the world, travel around the world. How could I possibly complain? You're the king of all media. Watch out, Howard.

I'm of all media. How about that? We'll just leave it of all media. Milan is the gentleman behind Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. He's also a huge fan of sports media. He just loves to follow. He loves sports, but he also loves to follow sports media.

He's insightful. If your ego needs a little boost, I think but he also loves to follow sports media. And he's insightful. So if your ego needs a little boost, I think you're going to like his intro here. But I have a question from Milan, so let's hear from him. Hey Toronto Mike, it's Milan from Fast Time, watch and jewelry repair. Hello Damien, I've enjoyed your work throughout the years

from your insightful articles in The Star to the Sunday football show with Leo Cahill and your wonderful chemistry on the radio with the greatest general manager in Leafs history and author of the best-selling book, 67, Mr. Gord Stelic. To your credit, you've been a major proponent of diversity in sports, specifically regarding inducting women in the Hockey Hall of Fame. I was wondering, in your opinion,

why is there such a lack of diversity when it comes to women and male visible minorities on the Toronto sports media scene, specifically on the Fan 590? We all remember the infamous Fan 590 all-white-man promotional picture. Thanks, Damien and Toronto Mike. I think Malan's trying to get me in trouble here.

Well, first of all, thanks. And things like fighting for diversity and fighting for... You hope that people associate with those messages, and they don't always do, but that's okay. All you can do is try to get the right thing out. As far as diversity in sports media, I think it's a really interesting question. I think there's been huge strides taken in the last three to four years.

And why that is? You know, I think it's Canada. I think it's schooling. I think it's training. I think it's opportunity. I think it's schooling. I think it's training. I think it's opportunity. I think it's cultural. I think it's a million different things that I can't sum up in 10 seconds and tell you why, you know, why are you sitting there and you're a white guy and not, uh, not an African-American

woman? Yeah. I mean, I don't, you know, I wish I could end it. All I can say is my observation in the past year, when you look at the faces and the names and the voices on TSN and Sportsnet and different things and in the newspapers, I think there has been a diversification and we need to keep getting better. But I think it's happening

i agree but the albatross which allows people like milan to point and say he said specifically fan 590 this is the and what i think is the problem is that you're right i see uh people of color i see a woman uh all over uh tsn and sportsnet uh what i mean the fact is i'm if you just count like the daytime shifts, from the Greg Brady morning show to the Bob McCowan show and everything in between, the Fan 590, it's a bunch of white guys. That's a fact, I would say.

And I think this is where you and I have differed before. What about TSN radio? Well, at least Andy Petrillo is on TSN radio during the daytime. At least there's... I'm not here to say TSN is... And Mary Ormsby was on the star and hosted on the star. Or sorry, Mary Ormsby was on the Fan 590 25 years ago.

Oh, I know. And hosted her own show. She was and is fantastic. And I remember Bob did the morning show with... Barbara DiGiulio. And Debbie Van Keekbelt. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I remember she was Oh, yeah? Yeah.

I remember she was at City TV. Yeah. So, look, I mean, Andy does a great job, but she's not the first. I know. No. By the way, when I bring this up, I only bring it up. Actually, I didn't bring it up. Milan brought it up.

But he's referring to the Fan 590. I think it's because let's face it, like since we do Real Talk here, is that sports media fans like Milan, 1050 is not like something they're... sports media fans like Milan, 10.50 is not like something they're, I don't think, I think that because 590 had the big head start and people like Milan love listening to the fan 590s,

today they still listen to the fan 590 and they just, 10.50 is not top of mind. Well, you know this, that radio is the hardest to get people to switch their habits because they set their car and then they get in their car and they listen.

And they might want to listen to whoever's on TSN between 5 and 7, but in the back of their mind they're thinking, I wonder what Bob's talking about. I better switch over and check out what Bob's talking about. So I think the reason that we're picking on you, not you, is because I don't even think the ratings are close. No, they're not. And it's because I don't even think the ladies are close. No, they're not. And it's because the Fan 590 is the industry leader, right?

And I don't think what you're saying is unfair. I could sit here and mention there are other people. Paul Jones is on, different people. But basically, I agree with you. And the day when another woman gets to host a show like Mary Armsy once did, and the day when people of color are more prominent on the show will be a good day. I need to take this opportunity to promote a special episode of Toronto Mic'd that's taking place on December 7th.

So that's only next week. Oh, my goodness. I got to do some homework. So you see, Damien, there's a fourth microphone. This is new. Oh, there. Okay. Picked it up yesterday. Thank you. Yeah, it's shiny

and new, unused. My guest last night used it for like 10 seconds just to break it in. Sarah Burke. She's on SiriusXM in the 88. But this microphone is courtesy of Blue Sky Agency. So I just want to say thanks again to Blue Sky Agency. But the reason I had to get a fourth mic is because there's going to be a diversity and

sports media panel. And the guests lined up to join me for this discussion next week is Scott Moore, Shorali Najak. Shorali Najak, yep. He worked with you for a couple of years. And Sofia Yurstukovly Najak, yeah. He worked with you for a couple years. And Sofia Yurstukovic. Oh, yeah. She worked like the 630

to 7 part, right? Yep, yep. We worked together at Hockey Night Canada and at Rogers and absolutely. Well, that'll be a group. I mean, it won't be much of me. It'll be mainly them, but like a frank and open discussion about chat. Well, you see, you've got the equipment,

so you can get me and Brunt and Shannon and Hodge. We'll all come in here, and now you can talk to us all at once. Sold. I'll be cutting that. I'll be exerting that audio and using it again. Well, that sounds like a good show. I mean, I'm not sure anybody's going to give you an answer

because I think the answer, first of all, is probably because it's a pretty obvious one. So I got into the business in 85, and I would say until 2005. So for the first 20 years, it was a business dominated by white guys. As most businesses were, right? Period.

Period. You know? And now, you know, I mean, Carolyn Cameron's going to be a star in this country. I mean, she probably already is. You know? Jody Vance was one who got her opportunity before. And if she, you know, at a different time,

like she would be. Don't you know she's going to be working for the Seattle NHL team when Scott Moore moves over there? Oh, is that the deal? Okay. Well, Jody's great. And, I mean, it's a lot about timing. And should we sit here and say, well, should it have happened earlier?

I guess the answer is yeah, it should have happened earlier. So we'll see what comes out of that discussion. But, again, I think that's a good crew because I have someone who was a decision maker, like like Scott Moore who was a hiring guy and then Sophia's got, she's a woman, first of all, and she has a perspective

from a woman. Shirely is a person of color in the industry. I feel like this will be a good discussion. Yeah, I think we're seeing, you know,

Leah Hextall, I know, is hoping to become, get into broadcasting play by play. So a woman's going to do NHL games at some point. There are already women in the U.S. who are working as color commentators. So it is happening.

But I will tell you, so I was at Ryerson between 1983 and 1985. And as I look back at the class, so this was the – so they had a graduate program in journalism at that time at Ryerson. And if there was a person of color in a class of 30, there might have been one or two. And none of the women that I remember were interested in sports media. So that was what guys like Scott Moore had to choose from coming out of there. So I think that that's changed, just like Toronto has changed a lot since then.

Agreed. And I do hear people like Ashley Dawking. Ashley was actually on this panel, but she has to work at 590 at that time. So she had to drop out, which is good. I only have the four microphones. And my mixer here only has the four slots. It's only like I can plug in a fifth if I borrow one. You may have to get a new house

and then build a new studio. Honestly, if I could do that. I'm out of bedrooms, okay? I already have the two little ones share a room because we're out of rooms. I hear that, you know. People say that like,

I hear parents say that now like they're doing something terrible. I shared a bedroom with my three brothers. Yeah, but same gender. You can do that forever. I feel like once you have two genders at play, you have a

at some point, there's a clock at play. Not yet, of course. Oh, no. And my wife made this great loft bed. And I remember I posted pictures on Twitter because my wife made it out of wood, like this loft bed. And it was really great because there's not a lot of room in that room. And I remember Brad Fay replied

and asked if she would... He he wanted one like could my wife come over and build a loft bed over there so it all comes back to brad fay uh i do want to talk about your book but i just want to ask you a couple of things uh quickly here uh where am i at so we talked about leafs and raptors well do you have a guess on the kneeler thing? Or would it just be a guess? It would be a guess. I mean, and actually I look at it a little bit differently in that I just think that they have to either sign him or trade him. If they are without the services of William Nylander this season or what he would bring in a trade,

then I think that's a major failing by Kyle Dubas if that happens that way. Now, one thing that is true is they could hit this deadline on Saturday and not trade him, not sign him. But they could still trade him before the trade deadline. Gotcha. He just can't play in the league this year.

Right. So they could still, in theory, trade his rights. Now, that would be a difficult deal to make because that means he wouldn't have a contract, but somebody else might be able to talk to him about a contract. Will you sign with us? And teams will be at a very different situation. So let's say the St. Louis Blues continue to be absolutely crappy,

and they miss the playoffs. They'll probably miss the playoffs this year. By February, by the end of February, they may be willing to say, yeah, we'll give you Colton Pareko for William Nylander. Let us talk to Nylander about a contract, see if we can get him a deal basically set up. We'll do that deal now because we don't worry about whether he plays with us for the rest of the year. And you'll get Colton Pareko for the playoffs. So that deal has probably come.

So while I say the Nylander thing, thank God, comes to an end this Saturday, it actually may not come to an end. Interesting, interesting. I'm telling you, you've got to build a whole show around this.

Okay, who's programming over there? I'd be tuning in. Are you kidding me? Give me the popcorn. Now, pitch talks. Did you... I guess there's a puck talk. I've never been on pitch talks. I was going to ask you, what about

puck talks? Did you ever do any of those events? I've never been invited. Okay. You've never been invited? No. I'm surprised. You'd be my first... One of my first names I'd want. Well, that's nice of you to say. That's why you've been on the show three times. I don't know. Maybe I'm too old or too... Too polarizing.

Too white, too whatever. No, because I've watched it. There's a lot of white guys on that show. It's a lot of Brunt and Blair and Wilner and the whitest white guys you're going to find. Well, and, you know, I mean, I think that that's... I was just... Just to go back to that and finish that.

I think the objective of any broadcast outlet or that show, Pitch Talks or Puck Talks, is to produce the best show. And the best show for your readers or listeners or like your job is to do the best show of this. And sometimes I think we have to be careful we don't let color and things like that get in the way. People are trying to put the best show on, but at the same time, they have to know they have to try to reach different viewers, different leaders, and they have to understand who they're So it's a really tough balance. I wasn't even thinking of the diversity

angle on those talks. I was more thinking about the Rogers ban, right? So it doesn't affect you. So I guess you don't know because maybe you never did one and maybe you didn't get this memo. I don't know. Because there was an edict to all Sportsnet employees that they could no longer attend

these pitch talks and pub talks. But I was going to ask you if you had attended and how you felt about that. Well, if they invite me, then I'll... No, they can't invite you. They can invite me. It's a question of whether I go or not and whether... I don't know. I don't know actually what the deal is.

Here's a tough question. Again, I screen all the questions and if I find a question gossipy or salacious or whatever, I discard it. We're not doing that. But this one I think is a completely fair game. So I'm just going to read it as Tony submitted it. So Tony writes, during Dan Carcillo's hockey career,

you constantly tweeted negative and offensive comments about him personally and his style of play. Now knowing what Mr. Carcillo has been through, physiological trauma he endured during his junior career, effects of concussions during his NHL career, are you willing to apologize to Mr. Carcillo and to hockey fans for what you wrote about him in the past? Sure, I apologize to everybody about everything.

Does that make everybody happy now? So I think he's right. First of all, I would disagree that I offensive comments about him as a person. Not true. I hated Dan Carcillo's game. I thought he was a cheap shotter.

I thought he was dirty. And I remember seeing him play at St. Mike's. And I thought he was a pretty talented guy who's kind of like Tom Wilson in that he let a lot of that stuff get in the way of his talent. I admire him greatly for what he's doing now. So I think you can be both. You can say I hated him as a player.

I didn't respect the way he played the game at all, but I admire what he's doing now. And this is like the question of, after the season's over, a team loses a playoff series, and then they always come up with, oh, this guy had this injury and that high. Well, now, don't you feel bad that you say the guy played wrong? I can only go on the basis of what I have,

and I can only comment on the way people play the game. I don't comment on whether I think Carcillo's a good person or a bad person. I thought he was a real, I didn't like the way he played the game. I don't comment on whether I think Carcillo's a good person or a bad person. I thought he was a real, I didn't like the way he played the game. But I like what he's trying to do now. I don't necessarily agree with all his strategies. I've reached out to him. We've gone back and forth a couple of times and communicated

about different things. He's really trying to control the way in which his message gets out. So do I feel like I should apologize to him? No, I don't feel like I should apologize to him. The last good year, seven games that ended in an era. The last good year,

does Pierre Burton know of? I know he's no longer with us, but does he know that's the title of this book? It's cool. If you Google it, they both come up. Me and Pierre Burton. You're in good company.

You're in good company. So this book, first of all, tell me... Why didn't you come to the book launch, by the way? You were invited. Where was it again? I can't remember. I got four kids. It depends what night.

I got four kids, too. But did you have little ones? No. What are your youngest kids? My youngest is 13. Yeah. See, that's to be a different ballgame. I got a two-year-old, a four-year-old.

It's tough for me to go anywhere. Although I am seeing Sloan on Saturday night, so I don't know how I'm going to pull that off. I'm going to just jump on my bike and disappear. So tell me about, this is the 1992-93 Campbell Conference Final. And I mean, I'm old enough to remember it vividly. Are you kidding me? That was a big deal to me but tell me basically tell me why you wrote the book so a bunch of reasons it was it was a vivid thing in my memory

I'd only been on the beat for about four years and then all this happened it happened like a whirlwind I knew all those guys I thought there was more from that story that that uh, that has still had to be told. And I really like books in general that go back and look at something again, say basically from the point of view, knowing what we know now, now look at it. Um, so I felt that there was more to the story to be told. I carried it around for years and years and years. And I kind of thought I'm not writing any more books. I don't want to do that. And then it's sort of all came together and I did. Um, and the more I wrote about it and the more I researched the book, it became part of, um,

that I could write about how the industry and the game had changed. And so the title of the last good year, I'm not even sure it's the right title, to be honest with you, because I don't want to be the old guy going back to, it used to be good back then, now it stinks. 1967. It was better when we were on typewriters. I don't want to be that guy.

But at the same time, what I wanted to tell was, I thought 93. 93 was the year Batman came in, that player salaries began to change, that the game began to change, that the new arenas started coming on. And the league up to that point or around that time was really different than it is now. I'm not saying it was better. I'm saying it was different. In a lot of ways, from a journalistic standpoint,

it was a better story. You had guys like Bruce McNall running the league. He just, on his own, ran the league. There wasn't the controlled product like there is now in the National Hockey League. So that's what I wanted to communicate in this story, and I built it around a terrific seven-game series that included all kinds of characters,

really colorful characters, personalities, a game that was played in a very different way. And then basically to sort of revisit the whole thing again, and I enjoyed it. Well, just to remind listeners, especially the younger listeners who, you know, it's a little foggy this wonderful time, 92, 93 season, for example.

You know, you had Marty McSorley slugging it out with Wendell Clark. Pat Burns' hot pursuit towards Barry Melrose. We've seen that clip a hundred times. Don Cherry, this is the series where Don Cherry kisses Doug Gilmore on the cheek, which we see every time they open up Coach's Corner. Glenn Anderson's OT winner, of course,

Game 6. Are you kidding me? You could do a whole book on Game 6? I thought Game 6 was the best game. And I was there, and I'll never forget it. I don't remember as much as I'd like to about all the games I've seen. I remember that night. What gets overlooked in the Game 6, and you'll correct me. I don't remember as much as I'd like to about all the games I've seen. I remember that night.

What gets overlooked in the game six, and you'll correct me if I'm wrong because I'm doing this from memory really long time ago, but Wendell Clark had a hat trick that game, right? Probably the greatest game Wendell Clark ever played. This is funny because I get... And he almost didn't play that night

because his back was acting up so much. He hobbled off the ice after warmup and wasn't sure that he could play. That's a, what a bittersweet memory I have because I feel like when I think about that, I think warm, fuzzy, oh, the Leafs were good, we were so close. And then I remember, oh, we lost that game.

But this is the Kerry Fraser game. He's in the book and he was great. So he's owning this he, I mean, so he's owning this now, I guess he's... Oh yeah. And I think, and this is what I wanted to tell about Cary Fraser and what I really got out of our interviews when we talked about

this series. First of all, obviously he got the call wrong. Well, beyond that, he didn't see it. Should he have seen it? Whatever. He didn't see it. he have seen it whatever he didn't see you can't call he didn't see right right that's probably a rule in reverie school he didn't see it and if you see and if and if and i lay it on the book where he was on the ice where the thing happened you can see how a guy wouldn't see it um now whether both linesmen didn't see it as well

that's the i i don't know but they said they didn't see it so that was the first thing he didn't see it the other part of it was um you know people hold it like it's a big grudge against his uh against the leafs um and he wanted the kings to win stupid stuff like that well he was actually the guy in the next series who called mcsorley for the illegal stick uh against montreal right the other thing about car Cary Fraser is because he had the perfect hair, he was sort of seen as this sign of diva, this sort of not hockey guy he was refereeing. He came

from a hockey family. His dad, Hilt Fraser, was a tough guy. And Cary Fraser, when he played, he fought. He was a lefty. He was little, but he could fight and he would protect others. So he was a hockey guy with deep hockey roots from S us so he was a hockey guy from with hockey deep hockey roots from sarnia from a hockey family trying to do his damnest to call

one of the biggest games he ended up refereeing and he got it wrong and i thought it was really unfortunate that that is now become the game that people refer to. A couple years ago when it came public that he was dealing with cancer, one of the things that gets mentioned is, Kerry Frazier, a referee, this many games in the NBA, best known for his call. And I think that's unfortunate. So I write about him as a person. I write about his dad and what happened that night

after that game with his dad and what happened that night after that game with his dad um and his mom and i think you know you can humanize that story in a way that necessarily hasn't been done by those particularly fans and then if you ask wayne gretzky today what's the best game he ever played what's his answer well i think he goes back and forth. Oh, he changes it up highly in one. But I think he, you know, and you talk to Wendell Clark and you say, you know, Wendell, Wayne has said that's the best game he's ever seen. He says, are you kidding me? He said, I played with him in the 87 Canada Cup.

He was way better then. And really, what I think is the interesting part of that Gretzky game, game of game seven game six and game seven was how little he'd done in the series to that point but also it really was in many ways his last hurrah he won the scoring championship the next year but the kings didn't make playoffs right he never got close to playing for a stanley cup again like he did that year. He was never quite the star he was that he had been. There were a lot of miles on Wayne Gretzky at that point. He was, what was he?

He was 32 years old, right? So that was the last, to me anyways, the last really high point. And in fact, what happened after that? 96, the World world cup they lose 98 he gets left off the um the shootout game against the czechs in nagano he you know and then he starts to slow down and not be able to put up the points as we as everyone does that he once did um so that's and, that's one of those things that knowing what we know now, that maybe we would have appreciated what he did in that series even more.

And as a Leafs, I mean, I'm a Leafs fan, unabashedly so, born and raised in this city. And what I remember that we played, we played only the three rounds. By the way, quick aside before I get back to that, is that in this center

of the hockey universe that we live in here, Toronto, that we kind of do, I'm assuming fans of other teams are laughing at us, that we sort of treat this seven-game conference final, we're treating it, no other franchise would, we're treating it like we won the Stanley Cup. I just feel like we, because that's all we have, for people my age, that's all we have. Yeah. Well, there were three more conference finals over the next decades, but not seven games. Yeah, absolutely. That was as close. I don't know. I mean, I think it sort of has a bit of a Chicago Cubs feel to it. You know, I mean,

you say no other franchise, very few franchises, but the Toronto Maple Leafs are in many ways a utterly unique sports franchise, let alone a hockey franchise. What fans feel, fans feel. You know,

and it was like it was a great moment because it was after the end of what had been one of the worst eras in Maple Leaf history, and that was the ownership of Harold Ballard, who almost destroyed the franchise.

And that's why the DVD was called The Passion Returns. And Nick got really excited. That was Mark Askin, and there's a guy you should have on your show. And it was just, and it only happened, and then within three years, they were back to being one of the worst teams in the NHL again. So they had that, they had the next season,

and then the whole, everything started to fall apart again. So it was a unique time. Absolutely, a great time. So I was just going to finish my thought there, which that was, of course, I believe this is the year that we beat the Red Wings in seven. And then the Blues.

Right. And the Blues series had the Doug Gilmore wraparound in game two. And the Wendell Clark blasting the puck off the mask of Curtis Joseph in game seven. Six-nothing. And, of course, back to that Red Wings series, which it's funny because we look at it now like we were this massive underdog. But then you look at the regular season points that we weren't actually that far behind Detroit.

But they were the highest scoring team in hockey. But the Leafs had sort of steadily got better and better and better that season. So by the time they got to the playoffs, they were kind of better than what their record showed, whereas Detroit was still a team that had lots of talent but had holes, and those holes were exposed in that series. And a couple of the big goals I remember, I remember the Mike Foligno winner where he does the leap.

That was game five? And then, of course, Nikolai Borchevsky. Yeah, deflecting Bob Rouse's point. Unbelievable. I mean, Bob Rouse was a name people forget often. He was a guy I really enjoyed dealing with back then, so I got in touch with him again to do this book. So it was great catching up with him.

But the Borshevsky goal was pretty amazing. Now, the unfortunate part is, I don't know if you remember this, Borshevsky gets hit by Vladimir Konstantinov in that series, and it fractures his orbital bone. He misses a few games. He comes back. He gets that goal. But against the Kings, the lack of production from Borshevsky in that series, and it fractures his orbital bone. He misses a few games. He comes back. He gets that goal.

But against the Kings, the lack of production from Borszewski and Dave Andrzejczyk really hurts the Leafs. Yeah, I forgot. I just remember Nick was such a little guy, like a tiny little guy. And at some point, he had a... Scored 34 goals that season. Those are Daniel Marawan numbers.

By the way, I grew up when the Leafs were horrible in the terrible Harold Ballard era and we had nothing. And because we had nothing, we took these little things and we blew them up to be big things because we needed something

and we're all kids and we love hockey. So when Daniel Marouan, I can't remember what year it was, late 80s. It was the 89-90 season. Scored 32 goals. Yes, right.

As a rookie. Playing with Vincent D'Amfousse. Right. So what we do in our minds, me and my buddies, Daniel Marois is now like Mario Lemieux. You know what I mean? Like everything gets, we have to kick everything up a notch. And then that's why I think Wendell Clark, I think his legacy is a huge, that's a huge part of his legacy.

And that Wendell Clark was a great goal scorer and a great little plugger great player kind of a cam neely type i want to say but uh i'm trying to think of who to compare but we have wendell clark i believe we have wendell clark as if he's mark messier like i think we in toronto have put him on a whole different level because of the environment in which he arose in which we had nothing and then we had this guy came over from kelvington and and look at this guy he hits he fights he scores, he scores. So first of all, I think you're right. You associate with, I mean, when I grew up, we were playing road hockey in the early 70s, and the Leafs were terrible then.

So they were led by Dave Keon, yes, but he wasn't the Dave Keon anymore, so everybody wanted to be Dave Keon. If they couldn't, Norm Ullman, Paul Henderson, Pierre Jarry, guys like that. Those were the guys we thought were great players, right? Growing up watching occasionally on Hockey Day in Canada. As far as Wendell goes, a big part of it was,

if you remember the 85 draft, Craig Simpson made it clear he would not come to Toronto. And so Wendell Clark, they took him and said, and not only would he come to Toronto, he was thrilled too. He just came here as the no-nonsense boy off the farm. He was a bit of a throwback even then for who he was. And the fans got to know him, love him, knew his family, knew his dad less. You know, he became, as much as whether he was a great player

i think is open to debate but he was an extraordinary figure in toronto sports for well from 1985 to when he was traded in 94 and then when he came back and i wrote about when he came back later in the in the book and it still gives me chills when he came back in the trade, played his first game and all went silent in the gardens. And then Jimmy Holmstrom had the stroke of brilliance. It was silent. I remember that was the weird part. And they were, it was milling around change.

Maybe it was a TV timeout and it was, the place was quiet. Wendell was on the ice. And then they started playing the theme from Welcome Back, Cotter. And it was so perfect. Jimmy Holmstrom should be in the Hall of Fame just for that. And I still get chills about it because the words, Welcome Back, and all the stuff that goes about. And for people who remember that show, it was so perfect for Wendell.

And it was more than what he was as a player it's what he represented and who he was as a as a as a figure and of course he had another tour of duty here that's right he came back a third time and i still he played i think he was a senator's uh there were a bunch of this is back when we had we always played the senators like they're four in a row or something we beat him each time too which was fun. But he scored a big goal against, I think it was like 2000 or something. And this is the end of his last season. Well, in that one, he was, I don't remember, they get him in the trade halfway.

No, he had been basically cut loose, I think, by Chicago. They bring him back. He's a scratch for a lot of the rest of that season. And the scratch for, I think, much or most of the first series against Ottawa. And then they dress him against New Jersey. Yeah. And he comes out in the third period. He hits the post.

He gets one of his wrist shots, hits the post, at least win the game. But he hits the post and gets a standing ovation for it, for hitting the post. So he didn't score against the Sens? Why do, my brain, I don't remember that. It's all a copy of a copy. It's in the book. It's in the book.

It's in the book. Okay, so let's... Okay, so let me just say, we've mentioned Brunt enough times in this episode, but just one more time, where Brunt... It's all about Stephen Brunt. Right, because he writes books,

and he said he was once told that if you want to sell a book in Canada, he said the only way to do it, he says, is to write about hockey and get it out for Christmas. He says if you write about hockey and get it out for Christmas, that's the only way to do it he says is to write about hockey and get it out for christmas he says if you write about hockey get over christmas that's the only way to sell a book in this country so first of all congrats for doing that yeah and i was saying i just had in fact schultz was the first guy to get the lasagna so schultz came in to talk about hockey fight in

canada and i said the same thing to him but i say it to you which is that um and at the time i might have messed up i might have made a stupid comment like, if you want to buy it for your dad or your son, and then I got called out on Twitter, you can buy it for your mom and your sister or your daughter. So it happens to you as well. I slipped, and I realized I'm thinking of my own family where my boy is the hockey nut and my daughter doesn't care. But anyway, if you're looking for a gift for a hockey lover,

male, female, or other, this is a fantastic, nostalgic trip. Like, revisiting this seven-game series in 93, I'm sold. Great. Good. Well, I hope you enjoy it, and I hope your loyal listeners enjoy it. You know, it was fun to write. It really was. I probably won't do any more books.

But I really, you know what? And the best part about this from a personal point of view, it was a book I wanted to do. And to the great, and I'll always be grateful to Penguin for this, I got to write the book I wanted to write. And that is a bigger deal than you might think uh because getting the publisher to say yeah no we believe in your idea not only do we believe in your idea your wacky way of going about it which was i wrote it as a play in seven acts um and and the way i chose to try to frame it

a lot of publishers wouldn't have gone along with that. And they did, Nick Garrison and those guys. Plus, here's one thing for you. There's an audio version. Do you read the audio version? I got to read the audio version. And so that was six hours for four days reading your own book. Try that sometime. So that was fun. So yet another thing I've got to do during my career. So now I can pack it in. that was fun. So yet another thing I've got to do during my career. So now I can pack it in.

The, uh, if you have a preference in terms of how people buy the book, like, does it matter to you or do you just go? No. Do you, I mean, maybe you want them to go to a Ma and Pa bookshop and as opposed to like an

Amazon. Well, I mean, you know, the novel spot up in Humbertown is I was up there a couple of weeks ago. And so I support those guys. No, look,

I gotta be honest with you so this is four books um i am so flattered when anybody wants to read a book i've written and i know this for sure i don't know how many copies this will sell whether it'll be a huge success or you only have to sell 5 000 to be like a best seller in this country i know for sure that we've already sold a few hundred books. For sure, right? Because you signed them? Yeah.

I'm so flattered that a few hundred people would read something that I've written. I'm going down to the different drummer next week, and they've sold a bunch of tickets. I'm going to be on with Anna Porter. I mean, that's kind of a cool thing. hoarder. I mean, that's kind of a cool thing. So being part of the book industry, it's a really neat thing. But like I said, I really am. If one person reads it, I'm flattered. And I would say if somebody in the Toronto area buys your book and wants you to sign it, you'd probably meet them at a local Starbucks and sign that thing or something like that.

Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. Damien, third time's a charm. You're three for three. I enjoyed this episode thoroughly. I hope you had a good time too. In case you're not sure, Mike, look at my face. Are we going to hug afterwards? I really enjoyed this chat today. There, how's that? Maybe you should give me the

Don Cherry kiss on the cheek when we take the photo out. No chance. No chance. I got to go deal with my bleeding head. That's true. I feel bad. I'll get you some ice. And that brings us to the end of our 403rd show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Damien is at

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