Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Damien Cox: Toronto Mike'd #110

Episode Date: February 12, 2015

Mike chats with long-time Toronto Star journalist and Rogers broadcaster Damien Cox about his years at the Star, on The Fan 590 and on TSN and Rogers Hockey.

Welcome to episode 110 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything, often with a distinctly Toronto flavour. I'm Mike from TorontoMic.com and joining me this week is long time Toronto star journalist and Rogers broadcaster, Damien Cox. I just realized because you're not wearing the headphones, you missed out on the best theme song a podcast could ask for. No, I can hear it. Okay, good. You don't have to lie to me.

Decidedly groovy. How about that? No, I'll take that. You don't look 80 years old, but I was thinking you had to be close to 80 because I don't remember a time where I would read the Toronto Star and not read an article from Damien Cox. Yeah, well, I was there years and

years. You know, it's funny. That's sort of the way I felt when I first got to the Toronto Star, when there were people like Milt Dunnell and Jim Proudfoot and people like that. So I'll tell you what, I'll take that as a real compliment. Well, when I was growing up, we had one paper delivered and it was delivered every day and it was a Toronto Star. I guess that's a common story. It probably still is the most popular newspaper in the country. But I always went straight to the sports section, right to the sports section. I needed to see the Blue Jays box scores and then read about the Leafs. And yeah, you were a must-read column like throughout my childhood. Were, were, I know.

I feel like, no, it does. It feels like it's sort of a part of my past, but it's a very big part of my past, that's for sure. So would you mind telling me how you ended up at the Toronto Star way back when? You know what? Really until I went to work for Rogers full-time, I thought the Star was really, it was the only job I'd ever had.

And I figured otherwise I was unemployable. I got that job right out of school. And that was back in 1985. And then I worked in news for about four years. And then I got into sports. got into sports but you know I'm I'm one of the lucky ones uh in the world although well in in the world of journalism that I I got to go straight from journalism school right to the star at the same time sometimes I feel like I missed out on some of the uh experiences other people had in working in small town papers and doing all the things that went along with that but that's where

I landed and and for 29 years it was a hell of a ride. Well, all those people were envious of you. So if that makes you feel bad, they were like, can you believe this guy? Yeah, you know, and there were a few. And look, I feel like I've had an incredible run and I fell, you know, fast backwards into a lot of things the way they happened to me. And, you know, I backwards into a lot of things the way they happened to me.

And, you know, I've been pretty blessed by the whole thing. Did you work with Alison Gordon? I didn't. And I saw this morning that she'd passed. And I know of her, that's for sure. I didn't ever have the opportunity to work with her. Didn't overlap with her. But I would say that, you know, one of the people that she cleared opportunity for would have been Mary Ornsby, who I worked very closely with at the Toronto Star for years and years.

And it's sort of one of my favorite people just in general. And, you know, Mary in her way was a pioneer as well. And I think for women in sports journalism, it was tough then, and I think it's still pretty tough now. You're right. I think there's a lack of women, and I just wonder how much of that has to do with the old men's club and things like that.

I don't know. You know, I think, first of all, generally we're talking about male sports that we're covering, so maybe that's part of it. Maybe it's just something that a lot of women aren't interested in. Maybe it's something I fear that sometimes it's something that they're not,

they don't feel particularly welcome at. But you'd probably be better. You know, I'm the father of three daughters, and I'd hope they can do whatever they want. But you'd probably be better off to ask women who have been in the business or decided against being in the business how they feel about it. Yeah, no doubt. But it does sound like Alison Gordon was a groundbreaking pioneer. Yeah, it's just too bad to read that news today. Yeah. And I mean, I think,

you know, sports journalism has lost some really good people in recent years. And I've known people who we've lost along the way and every time it happens i feel like there's a a big chunk of of experience gone and sometimes i worry in the modern media world that a lot of those a lot of the the value of experience isn't appreciated as much as it was maybe when I broke into the business. It's a shame that we can't all pass away at 140 years old like Milt Dunnell. That was a good, good long life he lived. You know, and boy, was he ever nice to me.

And I was lucky. I think it was one of the, before I even went to the Star Sports section full time, I was assigned to cover a baseball game and it was one of the, before I even went to the Star Sports section full time, I was assigned to cover a baseball game. And it was in Kansas City. And I sat between Jim Hunt and Milton L., two guys who had done so much. And they couldn't have been more helpful. That's good to hear. And to me, that always, you know, was a good lesson.

You know, to help people who are trying to get into it. And I hope I've been able to do that. I feel like I have. Yeah, I was going to ask you, do you feel like you've paid that forward? Do you try to help or mentor young journalists coming up? Because it's got to be a lot tougher today coming up than it was back when you came up.

It seems like an analogy I will use is what Aaron Davis told me about radio. It's like robbing a... Today, if you go into radio, it's like robbing a bank after, sorry, it's like, yeah, robbing the bank after all the money's gone. Like this was an Aaron Davis line. And I just wonder if the same is true for newspaper journalists in this new day and age. Boy, you know, I don't know. I guess in some ways that's the case. I don't pretend to know all the circumstances that young journalists encounter today. What I will

say is I feel like I was, again, blessed to work in, you know, maybe the last great era of newspapers when newspapers had lots of resources and really set the agenda in many ways for media so i feel like i you know i was really lucky to have had that what it's like now it's it's i i don't even think i can communicate to you how different it is now than when i started out and that's not to sound like, you know, you know, the old guy in the block who, boy, it was better then than it is. I don't think it's better or worse.

I think it's just so much different. But how much of that is pre-internet and post-internet differences? So the internet arrives. At some point, everyone's got an internet connection. And at that point, at least in my perception, that's when newspapers start to lose their value, in my perception. And the other one that comes with internet,

as internet matures, if you will, social media then arrives, and then suddenly, you know, stories are breaking, you know, now stories are sort of breaking on Twitter as opposed to in the newspaper, like we remember back in the day. Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends whether we're talking news or sports or or media in general i mean i i went to when i was at i always

find this funny but uh when i was at journalism school i we we worked on typewriters and i very much remember the internet coming along right and how that was sort of wow this is interesting and an entirely different way to access information and it's like um from that moment on everything speeded up um where there was time to consider time to break a story time to consider, time to break a story, time to, you know, really, I think in some ways to really make a piece matter. That has changed drastically because what we're talking, it's like what we're talking about now in 10 minutes is dead. Right.

And it's, again, I don't see it as better or worse. And live worked and I hope done, you know, reasonably well in both areas, but it's remarkably different. A good example is that, you know, your paper, the Toronto Star was breaking the Rob Ford crack video story and they weren't ready to go live with it, but a web only media company goes live. And essentially, I'm guessing there's a big meeting at the Toronto

Star building or something where people get together and where they decide we have to go with this tonight because their hand is sort of forced and it might not be, you know, the story might not have been ready to be published in the previous era. But in this era, you sort of have to compete with these digital enterprises where maybe they don't have the same era. But in this era, you sort of have to compete with these digital enterprises where maybe they don't have the same standards, maybe they don't have the same journalistic practices and ethics of a Toronto Star, but you're going against them in this digital world

and you have to sort of be faster than you would have been. Oh, I think that's right. And, you know, whether it's that story or in general, I think that's absolutely the case. And I would probably argue that newspapers were slow to react to the changing environment and maybe are still slowly reacting, probably because no one really knows what the end is, what it's going to look like. Because it's still changing. And also because someone's got to pay for it.

It's something that the modern world doesn't seem to appreciate. They want everything for free. And newspapers, it's not a sustainable business model if you can't get somebody to pay for it. A hundred percent. People expect it to be free. And even if you said 99 cents a month, I know a lot of people who once, 99 cents a month, they won't mind spending 600 bucks on their smartphone, but tell them they got to spend 99 cents a month on decent news services.

No, it's like almost like the principle of it. They just bought it. Oh, I know. And you know what? And even now and what I'm doing now in television, I'll get, you know, you'll hear people say, why can't I get the Edmonton-Nashville game? Well, because you have to get the service that allows you to do it. And they're outraged. They're outraged that they have to actually pay $200 a year

to get the service that allows them to watch the games because they expect it to be free. It's a peculiar thing. And it's like Pandora's box. I see newspaper companies struggling with the whole paywall. We're going to do it this way. Now we changed our mind. We're doing it that way.

And just this whole trying to get Pandora back in the box. Oh, I think that's... And I think newspapers are still trying to figure it out. But I also would say that I worry that people won't appreciate what newspapers are until they've either been either they're gone or they've been gutted. Right. And I think the Rob Ford story is a great example. And there's many great examples out there of the work that newspapers do that other media don't do or don't do as effectively. And I hope people are aware of the risks. You don't know what you got till it's gone, as the song says.

Speaking of breaking stories and such, how do you break a story? Because I find that, and I don't break a story like, oh, guys, I heard this trade is going down between Winnipeg and Buffalo, obviously, but I will break the odd local radio story or something. And it's always because there's smoke, and I see the smoke because I see digital logs and different questions and emails and there's a bunch of smoke. And then I go investigate to see if there's a fire. Okay. So this is, this is all break a story because there's, I see the smoke first. Like, how do you break a story? Do you actually have inside sources that will like call you up or text you and just say, you know, this

is going down or like, how exactly does Damien Cox break a story? Well, I mean, there's, boy, there's a million different ways, that's for sure. You know, I think you try to, first of all, you try to be in touch as you can with as many people as you can talk to. But I think you also have to be aware that people don't want to tell you the story or they, or they would rather, you know, distract you and send you in another direction. So I think you have hunches. I think it's what you say. I think it's, you know, you have hunches and then you try to pursue it and you try to get an answer and you try to, you know, get people to give you the bits and pieces along the way. I don't think that's really changed.

I don't think it's changed from Seymour Hersh writing about the Vietnam War to breaking a trade in hockey. It's about people. It's about relationships. It's about what you're willing to give up to get what they are willing to give up because there's always a cost. If you have a source who's going to give you something, what they are willing to give up because there's always a cost you know if you have a source who's going to give you something that comes with a cost and so when you're a journalist you're constantly weighing the costs of what you're willing to give up

and what they're willing to give up but I think the reality also is now is that a scoop lasts about five seconds. If that I was just gonna going to say, once you tweet the scoop, everyone's got it and now they're repurposing it or posting it on different blogs. It used to be I could break a story in the Toronto Star and it would come out in the morning paper and no one else would have it. And then it would last almost until the next day. Right, exactly. Because they've got to go to press again. Now you can break something, and five seconds later, 27 people are claiming it as their own.

Exactly. And that's just the way it is. So when you're doing something like this, I hear that you've got, I don't know if they're messages or tweets or whatnot, but your phone is vibrating. Do you want me to turn it off? No, I don't mind it at all. That's my brother.

He wants to know who my roofer is. Okay, you know what? I was going to ask you. Because when Elliott Friedman was in here, same thing. Could you be missing out on a big story right now? Like when Phaneuf was just traded maybe? Oh, yeah. And you're wasting your time with me.

No, I'm enjoying our conversation. But it does seem inordinately true that when I'm most busy or when I'm doing something with a family member or something, that's almost always something nice. Yeah, some guy named Murphy has a law about that, I think uh i know if you want to stick on the headphones you don't have to but i'm gonna just play something for you that uh i won't call him a friend but i did have lunch with him once but he blogs under the name bloge salming which he i think down goes brown told me it's blage salming it's not b. It's not Borge-Solomine, that's for sure.

But this is something I'm going to play for you, and then I want to ask what you think of this kind of thing. Just let me... Only a few seconds I'll play, because... It kind of requires a visual now that I think about it, but this is you. Trying to make police, trying to make police, trying to make police, trying to make police. We'll make the playoffs, we'll make the playoffs, we'll make the playoffs, we'll make the playoffs.

MLSC never has a plan, doesn't matter to the stupid fans. No finals since 67, no finals since 67. So called greatest fans, so called greatest fans, so called greatest fans, so called greatest fans. Draft schmatz, draft schmatz, selling condos, pogey instead of rasps So called center of the hockey universe, 40-40-40-65 per Adam is Jack, who knows that occurs? No finals since 67, no finals since 67

Plan the parade, plan the parade, tie dorming lovers, court at court no trade So called greatest fans, so called greatest fans, so called greatest fans, so called greatest fans That's Howard Berger who joins you, by the way. So this first voice you've been hearing the whole time is you. That's me. That's you. And see, I told you it was worth putting the headphones on. I know. I don't think that really matters.

So that first voice going on is, this is, I think he called this the Christmas Carol. I can't remember anymore, but that was definitely Damien Cox doing the main vocals. And then at the end, Howard Berger comes in. You really do need the visuals. This does not work on the podcast, but I guess I'm wondering,

do you have a sense of humor about that kind of thing when people do kind of guys? So that doesn't offend you in any way. No, no, no, no, no. I think I'm not sure if I might have seen that. You got to see it, man. I can't believe you haven't seen that. It is a holiday treat.

I'm much less plugged into all that stuff than you probably imagine. No, I think that's fun. Sure. Yeah, because there's nothing below the belt there it's just good ribbing I'm one of those guys who believes to within certain context to if you're going to be in this business and you're going to take shots you're going to take shots

and if people like what I do that's great if they don't like what I do, that's great. And they're entitled to their opinion. Because you take, in my, just as an observer, you take a lot of shots. Like, for example, I remember there was a blog, God Till. They like to spin off these old leaf names. But CoxBlock.com, were you familiar with that one?

Like, it just seems like, and I'm going to draw a parallel between you and previous guest Mike Wilner here, in that you're polarizing figures, particularly on Twitter. I find, and I think it's because you both share a trait of rational thought, and I think it drives people crazy that you don't kind of dive into the hysteria of the moment. Like right now, it's rebuild the leaves, blow it up and rebuild. Like you got to kind of, that's it, rebuild, rebuild, trade FNF for enough trade kessel and if you're kind of rational and you restrain yourself and you're you're that voice i think it kind of frustrates people like they can't believe how rational you're being and then they start to sort of think you are and i'm going to use these terms because

they're used with you and wilner uh condescending and arrogant in tone. Have you ever heard this before? Sure. Okay. I don't want to be the one who breaks it to you. No, no. Does it bother you that you have so many detractors? No. That means you're doing something right, I think.

Well, I think two things. One, I think most of the detractors are anonymous, gutless people who hide and would never come up and say it to my face. And if they did, that'd be fine too. I've never, I can tell you honestly, I've never had someone in public come up to me and criticize what I do. Never. And that's in 30 years in the business. That tells you something about the people who are doing the criticizing um but in in general like i i really believe people are entitled to their opinion i think the frustration of some is that i don't i don't think like a fan, and I tend to be more of a contrarian.

I'm mostly suspicious when I sense public, the wind is blowing in one direction. I'm much more likely to go against that because I don't really trust the consensus usually. I find it lazy and not very intellectual, and usually it's the product of people wanting to jump on a bandwagon or wanting to, you know, gang up on something as opposed to wanting to think for themselves. And I guess that frightens people.

It's a bit of a mob mentality. Yeah, like when you have a fire, like right now there's a fire. Shanahan's got to blow it up and rebuild. And there's sort of a desire to feed the fire, fan the flames and throw fuel on that fire. But sometimes your voice will come out and sort of be more of a rational thought like, I don't know, this is just an example I'm making up, but maybe the core is okay. We need to maybe we don't need to blow up the core. We need to like, maybe you'll bring up a contrarian opinion. And then I think that frustrates people and it results in this kind of lashing out.

Because like Wilner, people seem to love Damien Cox or hate Damien Cox. There's not a lot of people out there who are indifferent to Damien Cox. You know what? I really don't know. And I don't really spend a lot of time. Like people, I'll get people who write,

send me, have you heard what people are saying about you on the boards out there and i don't even know what the boards are um i i you know i i only really uh i listen to what my family says i have some sense on twitter but twitter is such a tiny slice of general opinion out there um does any part i think i think anytime you you try to be different from people then people are going to try to bring you down

do you enjoy playing the bad guy at times like particularly on Twitter because you can be rather adversarial on Twitter where some people just ignore sort of naysayers and stuff but do you does uh, do you, does any party you enjoy being the bad guy? I don't do, well, first of all, I don't do it on Twitter anymore. I just, I've, I finally just realized it's pointless. Um, do I enjoy being

the bad guy? I don't enjoy, I don't really think of it being the bad guy. I don't mind having, I don't mind being the only guy in the room who's seeing, who thinks a certain way. I just don't. And I don't mind confrontation of opinions. I think if someone wants to send me an email or write on Twitter, I think you're wrong, dead wrong, for the following reasons. I'm very cool with that. I think if somebody wants to call me a douchebag or an old bald fuck or something like that i don't you know what does that mean what are you going to call me names that's what you think for sure i've been

around a lot you know around if you walk around from the time you're well go to school and your name's damien cox yeah you've probably had more than a few people call you names and make fun of your name right if you really think you're going to make me sweat by doing that you're dealing with the wrong guy that's now that's a that's a good point but um would you so if somebody tweeted at you you old bold fuck to use your words is that like automatic you just block the guy and ignore i think for a long time i did block and now i i realized i figured out i was just fooling around on Twitter and I can just follow the notifications of people I follow. And so generally that's what I'll do. So I've sort of got out of the business of blocking.

I'm just also trying to get out of the business of, I mean, you know, I mean, I can on any given day find 50 people who want to call me an old bald fuck. But I don't, i'm not sure what the purpose of that is the perception out there is that you i guess maybe from your past but that you're a hardcore twitter blocker because when i mentioned you were coming on a lot of people were like oh he hasn't blocked you yet like this was a common kind of response like and i think it might be sort of a badge of honor for some people like uh the same was because we only used to block a lot of people but then yeah i was a badge of honor like they people. The same was with... Because we only used to block a lot of people. It's a really sad thing. It's a badge of honor.

Like they're selling t-shirts, I was blocked by Damien Cox on Twitter. And I think it might be like a little club, maybe. Well, and you know what? To be honest with you, I think I used to do it a lot and I don't really do it anymore. And part of it is because

I realized by blocking people, they felt as though they were being recognized for something. So I think... Like they got to you, like under your skin or something. I suppose, yeah. You know what?

I think I've blocked a lot of people. I think there's a way to find out, isn't there? Okay, find out and let me know. How do you do it? I've got to Google it. I don't know how to find out how many people I've blocked. I think I've blocked two people in my life. Do people call you an old, bald fuck?

No. That's one of the few things I'm not called. But, hey, by the way, I do miss the mullet. I got to say, I don't think we've ever met before, but I'm used to that little picture in the star in the late 80s, and I think it was a mullet picture, if I'm correct. I think they're still running it in the Hamilton Spectator until the late, until recent times.

Until a couple of years ago. Yeah, I miss my hair, too. I liked it while I was there. It happens to good people. Don't worry. The perception, speaking of Hamilton, so you're from Hamilton. That's right. There's a perception you hate Toronto.

Look at my eyes and tell me you don't hate Toronto. Why would I hate Toronto? Great question. So you don't hate Toronto. I think when you... I love these. No, but I'm curious. Yeah.

Like you say, there's a perception. Yeah. There's a perception among who? The Twittersphere and the people. So I do talk to a lot of people. Do any of them know me? Not personally, no. You're just a known entity. Tell them to feel free to ask me.

And I'll tell them. I mean, I tend as to, not to hijack your show. No, go ahead. I mean, I tend as to, not to hijack your show, but I tend to avoid personally critiquing people unless I know something about them or have met them. I mean, I live in Toronto. I have four kids. My kids go to Toronto schools. I have the most fantastic neighborhood with great neighbors. I think this is the best city in Canada and one of the greatest cities in the world.

Why would I hate Toronto? Great question. But I think being a Hamilton guy, because I mean... I love Hamilton too. Sure, sure. That's where I'm from. And I always feel like it's important to... You know, I spent a lot of time recently in Hamilton because my mother passed away recently.

And it always feels good to go back to Hamilton and feel like, even though Hamilton's changed a lot, but just to have the feel of the city. I spent a lot of time there. My parents, I have five brothers and sisters. We have a big family. I still have people who, you know, I went to school with who live there. And, you know, to me, it's kind of my foundation. And it's, you know, being a Hamiltonian is an important thing to me. I should point out to everybody at home that you're wearing a Rush shirt.

So obviously you're a big Toronto fan. Come on, it's a great Toronto band. And a Tovaco band, right? So this is a high school band. Well, I met Geddy Lee for the first time, uh, two years ago with the, but the blue Jays home opener. And I know, uh, like myself, he's a big tennis player. So I'm still hoping that we're going to get on the tennis court together, but I actually came to rush relatively late in life.

My brother was older brother was a big rush fan. And, um, I don't know if this interests you no it does but i watched on the suggestion of bob mccown one day he suggested i watched their documentary beyond the lighted stage and then that really hooked me and then i uh my brother i older brother and i went and saw them in concert i guess about a year and a half at the acc and and i thought was a hoot. So I'm not a rush aficionado. I did read Neil Peart's book, which blew me away. And I have a great deal of interest in them as a band and sort of as a – I'm very much into music

and particularly Canadian music. And I see them as clearly a tremendous influence in Canadian music history. That's a great documentary, by the way. That is a great doc. It is. Yeah, they're hit or miss in those kind of like, that one's good. And the other Canadian rock one I really liked, I almost called them Anthrax.

What's the crappy West End band? It's going to kill me, but it'll come to me later in the show but there's a documentary about this crappy like metal band from toronto like making a comeback it'll come to me but i'll dig it up later i always see i grew up in well growing up in hamilton of course i was a teenage head fan so uh um uh that was a big part and you know my favorite band of all time is the clash and so i'm partial to uh to loud music that's a great band too yeah but you know when i'm one of those people i can listen to everything i was sort of as i was driving down here i was thinking what am i listening to on the radio i was listening to in order i think i listened to something from tony bennett something

from dionne warwick and then then something from Bruce Springsteen. So I'm kind of all over the place when it comes to music. Cool. One last Twitter question, then we'll move on to the Fan 590. You can ask as many Twitter questions as you want. Last one, though. Is there another one about what the perception is?

No more perception except, okay, so I think you had a Twitter fight with pension plan puppets. Does this ring a bell going back? So anyway, one of your lines was, uh, I think he referred to the shots from their basement. I think that these,

these anonymous guys are like, and I just thought if there's any, uh, irony there that you're now literally sitting in my basement as we record this podcast. I just thought I'd bring that to light. Damien Cox in, in my basement,

uh, as I, well, I don't... Are you... Well, yeah. No, I'm not a member of Pension Plan Puppets and I don't... Who are they? I don't know. They're a couple of guys and I met one actually the same day I met that Bloge

Salming fellow, but just Leaf fans. Yeah, they're nice guys. Well, there you go. I'm sure they're... Tell them to come up and say hello sometime. How did you end up on the Fan 590? This is, because as my notes are right, you were with Bobcat from 2001 to 2004. Yeah, but I was on there a lot longer than that.

Tell me about this. This is ancient history. People want to know. You know what? And my buddy Gord Stelik is probably better on some of this history. He's better on my personal broadcasting history than i am because his memory is is better than mine but somehow we ended up

now there's it happened one of two ways either i was invited to be on a guest with um dan shulman had a show and this was before I think it was even 1430, 1430 before it was on the fan. Dan Schulman had a show. Todd Macklin was the producer and they asked me to come on. And then I started doing some stuff, which largely was doing a football show with Leo Cahill, who didn't like me at all. It wasn't very good radio. Either that or it was the other way around

that I started doing that. And then I went on Dan Schulman's show. So between that, but I do know that Leo and I were so uncomfortable together that eventually I said to Gord, would you please come in and join us on the show? That's funny. To make it more comfortable. And then from there, Gordon and i started working together and we weren't um so this would have been

93 94 and then when did the fan come around 93 or 94 okay so there you go and we weren't we did not have a show in the first when they first you, when we were kind of disappointed when they first, uh, set off to go 24 hours, but relatively soon thereafter, we did, Gordon and I did the afternoon. We did noon till four and we basically had no commercials. So we went from one minute after noon till one minute to one. And basically we did 58 minutes on the hour for four hours. Wow. Every day.

Wow. And this was at a time when there was no crossover in the business. Right. So this was sort of new. And gladly I can say, Gordon, our friendship is maintained to this day. But it was tough. And unfortunately it didn't last that long because the star back then at some point put their foot down and said, we don't want you to this day. But it was tough. And unfortunately, it didn't last that long because the star back then at some point

put their foot down and said, we don't want you doing this anymore. Yeah, I was going to ask. Do you have to go get permission to appear on a different medium? Yeah, but then the permission didn't last. Mary Ornsby went through the same thing. And then shortly after that, they came to their senses and realized

this was something they couldn't stop. And so I started doing different things at the radio station. I had my own show for a while. I was doing appearances. I was guesting on primetime. I was doing a million different things and then ended up being, I guess, a permanent co-host with Bob in 2000. That sounds plausible.

Yeah, 2001 to 2004. Right. And then, yeah, so that's how I got to the radio. And I would say, I mean, I've been lucky to work in all the mediums. I've worked in radio, television, newspapers. I've written books. mediums. I've worked in radio, television, newspapers. I've written books.

It may be, radio might be the medium I enjoy the most. You're the king of all media in Canada. I doubt that. We'll see if that sticks. I doubt that. You mentioned him earlier, but what's Bobcat like? He's actually a guy I target as a guy I'd like to get in here. A, do you think I could get Bobcat

in my basement? Well, you'd have to get him out. A, do you think I could get Bobcat in my basement? Well, you'd have to get him out of his neighborhood. You'd have to go pick him up. And so what's he like? He's sort of become a, I mean, can we call him a legend? No. What do you think? Well, I don't know. I'm not sure what a legend is.

I think that he is certainly a mainstay in Toronto sports broadcasting and, to my mind, a pioneer, whether it was on Global back in his day or with Sports Talk Radio. And basically with Sports Talk Radio, everybody wants to be Bob McCown. He's been better at it and done better at it than anybody else in the country, let alone Toronto, and really in North America. So I've been incredibly lucky to work with some great broadcasters, you know, Bob McCown, Dave Hodge, John Wells, you know, lots of guys.

Gino Retta, you know. Now some of the guys I work with at Rogers, pretty lucky. I mean, they had a thing on Bob Cole on the weekend. He's the best. I can chat with Bob Cole and call him a friend. So a lot of these people. But to actually work with some of these broadcasters, I've been blessed. And Bob would be right at the top of the list.

And tell me if this is true, but you had a deal with TSN. Is this a perception? No, this is a reality here had a deal with tsn perception no this is a reality here now we're back to reality so you had a deal with tsn and i guess they started simulcasting bobcat show on roger sports net did this create some conflict that eventually led you having to leave i think that's right not even perception anymore your research is excellent i'm gonna i have a great staff i just want to give them some shout out. No, I think that's true. I think that's the way it went. And for a while there,

I was pretty happy I was getting paychecks from TSN and Sportsnet. That is tough to do. That's a good thing, but it didn't last. And you returned, though, and tell me if I'm missing anything juicy here, but you returned

to primetime sports in 2011. Does that sound to you sounds right and this is uh um because you're part of this rogers happy rogers family well what happened was i so i continued and i'd worked for tsn for a long And in 2000, okay, so 11, that sounds right to me. So in February 2000, I had offers from TSN and from Sportsnet, and I chose to go with Sportsnet. And then I ended up, of course, going back on the radio with Bob. Didn't news, in fact, I'm pretty sure because I saw the tweet, but didn't news break that you were going to TSN? Like this news broke that Damien gone you were going to TSN like this news broke that right Damien Cox is like

sort of went against Rogers was going to TSN and then the very next day I guess it was revealed that that that scoop I don't remember the source anymore lucky for that person but it was completely wrong you were actually signing I think it was a Bruce Dobig and scoop so like a lot of Bruce Dobig and scoops not accurate

no I mean it was a really tough choice. I loved working at TSN and with some great people. Dave Hodge is one of my close friends and working on Sunday mornings with him and stuff like that. And let me decide what I want to tell you exactly. No, you got to be completely honest about everything. I was very close.

No, I was very close to signing a deal with TSN. In fact, two months earlier, the guy who I was negotiating with could have had me for about a third of the price. And he blew it. And then he blew the negotiations. Uh, very luckily, um, between Scott Moore and Keith Pelley, um, they made me feel like, uh, very much wanted and that, uh, and that my home should be with them. And, uh, I can tell you, um, four years later, it was the right choice. Can you help clear up something? Like, when do you appear on primetime sports? Like how come, like, I know, so is that how it works? Like, cause I know Brunt's got some strange contract. He to be in there like i don't know three weeks a year or

something like that yeah well i mean when i came back and initially steven and i were basically going to split being the co-host with bob right and then when this hockey deal all started because you know like tonight i've got to be in there at six o'clock it's hard for me to do radio so i can't commit to doing regular weeks. But I was on a few weeks ago on a round table, and I'll go on anytime they ask me. Okay, so now with the new Rogers hockey deal, you just don't have that regular co-hosting,

a friend of Bob, as they say here. Right, right. But yeah, I mean, I go on all the shows whenever they ask me, and I'm available, and it's part of my deal and what I do. And in a perfect world, I'll end up doing more radio in the future. And I want to talk about Rogers Hockey here, but just since we mentioned TSN real quick, am I nuts or is Jeff O'Neill really good at that role he's got at TSN Hockey? Now, feel free to tell me I'm out to lunch, but when I watch the TSN Hockey games, I think Jeff O'Ne uh, and I'm kind of surprised. I find him, I think he's great at that. Am I crazy? I think, I think Jeff's doing a really good job, you know, and, and all this stuff about, I think everybody likes certain guys

and doesn't like certain guys and the guys you like, or maybe the guys that aren't, uh, that I don't like, you know, and, and that's why I don't get offended. If someone says, I don't, they don't like what I do because someone else does and there are, you know, it really is different things, but I'm always appreciative of former players who can bring their perspective. There's that word again to the, to. Well, perspective and perception are two different words. My word's perception. That's true.

Who can bring their perspective to the game and articulate it on radio and television or wherever. And Jeff was a guy who could certainly put the puck in the net. And I like his straightforward approach. I find a lot of the former, and this is just my perception, we should be like on Pee-wee's Playhouse when you said this word of the day. But the former athletes are typically,

I find, I'm either indifferent or I'm not a big fan. I'm just surprised at how good Jeff O'Neill is. And I think it's because he is a straight shooter. Like, I think he's just straight up. There's not a lot of BS there. He sort of calls it like he sees it. And I think, you know, it was funny when I said that, I was thinking back to when um we were talking about the you know ticking people off or upsetting people

or being polarizing i think if you're going to be a straight shooter and not candy coat things and be blunt about it then people a lot of people don't like that you know they they want you to say well it could be this or it could be that. Let's not rush to judgment. And I think Jeff and myself and there's any number of people out there like that who are just sort of blunt and to the point are always going to attract detractors. I find it refreshing. All right. I'll tell Jeff. Yeah, tell Jeff that.

Yeah. Let's talk Rogers hockey here for a minute. So I have had the pleasure of having, I had Jeff Merrick and then I had Strombo and then Elliot Friedman sitting there. You've had all the stars. Well, now I got you. I've done the four packs.

Yeah, but I came fourth. Fourth, but fourth. I haven't had any of those former hockey players in here. Just remember that. But this is a 12-year mega dollar deal so there's no pressure over there at rogers like no pressure how's it going so far i think it's great you know um i think you know it was a brand new organization new sports organization that started up basically in august with bits and pieces of CBC, Sportsnet,

some of the really good people from TSN. Those are just the people on air, plus all the people behind the air. And we basically started at ground zero. I've never been part of a brand new operation like that before. So that part of it's really been both exciting and a real learning experience for me. And particularly since this was the first time for me that I was all in on broadcasting and no longer a newspaper person moonlighting as a broadcaster. And so we are in the sixth month of this. I would suggest the story has just started to be written. There are many, I think who would like to tell you, they think the story has already been written. The conclusion is here. I'd suggest six months into a 12 year deal is might be a little early to decide on what's

going on. I think we've done some things really well. I think so. There's some things we need to do a lot better. Um, but it's a really cool operation to be part of. Some great people. Some great people and talented people. And I'm really hopeful that we're going to get better. How important is it, from an eyeballs and ratings perspective, how important is it that the Leafs be competitive? So this season, we decided to dive a little ahead of schedule.

Like, usually we wait until a little later and then we do our nose dive. But we decided to dive a little earlier. A lot of the casual fans lost interest and then some of the, even some of the hardcore fans just don't feel like tuning in to a terrible Leafs team that upsets their stomach.

Like, that's got to have an impact and that's something beyond the control. As powerful as Rodgers is, that's the one thing they can't control. How significant is that? Well, they can't, actually, because they're a co-owner. So they actually can control it, just like they can control the fate of the Blue Jays. Right, right. That is true.

But I think what you miss are the big highs of the Blue Jays, if the Leafs are a winning team um and i i don't i don't pretend to be an expert on ratings nor am i an expert on how ratings translate into revenues and profits but i think it's pretty clear that you know i i sort of laugh when when people and i've seen things about the first year Rogers ratings and stuff, and they sort of put down, and oh yeah, the Leafs aren't very good in that side. Well, shouldn't that be? They're burying the lead. Absolutely. I didn't really care. And I still don't really care how the Leafs do. I have a rooting interest. But now I have probably an interest in the Leafs being at least a newsworthy and probably, if you're going to say newsworthy, a successful team

because that translates into more eyeballs and it's better for the company. Without a doubt. Because you can dress the game up and you can have cool little puck things and a good studio and interesting people. But at the end of the day, and I hate that expression, but I'll use it, it's a hockey game. People are tuning in. They're watching a hockey game.

So a competitive Leaf, to me, this is an absolute huge component of how many eyeballs are going to be on the game Saturday night. Are the Leafs a competitive team gunning for a playoff spot or not? Yeah, I mean, people spend an inordinate amount of time focusing on people like me and Nick Kiprios and Bob McKenzie and Ron McClain and George Strombolopoulos and Elliott Freed. All that really matters is the game. You know, they focus on Strombol's socks.

Do you know that? Like, that's the kind of like, oh, or his pants. I'm hearing he's wearing skinny pants. I'm not sure what that is, but I know it's not relevant to the hockey. Strombo's over in the other corner of the dressing room. I don't know what he's putting on, but I know he's younger and better looking than me,

so I don't criticize. But not much younger. Let's remember that. The young faces of hockey in Canada are all in their 40s. Yeah, yeah, well, but I'm not. So,

Oh, now you work with Don Cherry. And I just wondered, um, what you thought, what do you think of Don Cherry? I like Don Cherry. I like him as a person.

Whenever I see him, he always says, how's Dawson? That's my son. How's Dawson? He always asked me how my son is. And whenever we run in to each other publicly and stuff, he's always friendly.

We don't agree on anything. But, you know, and he'll take me on. We all run into each other in an airport lounge, and he'll say, oh, you know, there's some good fights in that game, but you don't like that stuff. I know. But I believe, well, first of all, I think he's a nice man. I think he should be in the Hockey Hall of Fame broadcasting wing.

It's a disgrace that he's not. I didn't even know he wasn't. That sounds like an oversight. Oh, no, it's not an oversight. It's a disgrace. Disgrace. And not far behind that is the fact that Dave Hodge has not been inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame broadcasting wing.

But those two things aside, like I say, I don't agree on almost anything with Don Cherry. But I'm okay with that. I actually tend to prefer people who don't agree with what I say as opposed to people who do. I have the exact same feelings about Don Cherry. I won't miss his five minutes on Saturday night. To me, it's must-see TV. And I rarely agree with the man. I don't know haven't agreed in a long time once in a while he'll hit something with the canadian he'll say something i actually fully agree with but primarily i don't agree with

anything he says but i still love hearing him say it there's something about him where the passion and the uh just just the way he presents it and his his love of hockey that's in his love of canada yeah and i think it's it's also it's like a it's you know it's a something we're used to it's a comfort and i think that's why uh for some people it's been difficult for ron mclean not to be there because in the same way i mean he's still on hometown hockey you'll see him all this weekend on on uh hockey day in canada he's still such a big part of the whole thing, but his role has changed a bit. I think people are so used to that. And the one thing I've learned about broadcasting

is people don't like change. Nope. They want it the way they want it, and they don't want it changed. Even if it might be better or if it's just different, they don't want it changed. And it takes a long time. And that's why this goes back to six months into a 12-year deal

with a news organization that's just been put together. I think that the people who want to poke holes in it and draw conclusions are kind of foolish. Do you think we'll have fighting in hockey in 10 years? If we were to fast-forward 10 years and watch an NHL game, would there be fighting? Would that be gone by then? I would hope so, but I doubt it.

I would have hoped it would have been gone by now. I think it's a... It's trending that way though. Yeah, I think it's a blight, a plague on the game. And that still holds the sport back. There's no need for it um and it's one of the things about you know a great game that makes me sad that so many people want to still cling on to it um i i actually i'm i'm probably well i'm definitely in the minority among quote-unquote

hockey people but i don't really consider myself a hockey person. I'm just a person. I'm a hockey fan. I love the game, and I think it's bad for the game. This is by far the fewest. Now when I see a fight, it's like, oh, yeah, I forgot. They sometimes drop the gloves and go at it. And it is, and I would acknowledge that it's very much, you know, been reduced.

It's barely part of it. Look, I'd just be happy if it was, if you get in a fight, it's a game of misconduct. I'm cool with that. Right. You know, I mean, look, I grew up watching, the first game I ever went to was at Maple Leaf Gardens in I think 1970 or 71.

And it was a bench-clearing brawl between the Leafs and the New York Rangers. And I thought it was cool. And I grew up through the big bad Bruins and the Broad Street bullies. And I've seen it in all its different forms and how it's been used and all that. And at the end of the day, it's still a bunch of garbage. I used to be, I used to like it. And when I didn't like it was really when my kids started playing the game. And not because they were getting in fights,

because I understood it helped create sort of that, that it was one of those things that creates a negative hostile environment in hockey rinks in general. it was one of those things that creates a negative hostile environment in hockey rinks in general. And it also made me think of, um, all the hockey players who didn't get that chance, whether to play in the NHL or in the AHL or major junior or on their triple A midget team. Cause they couldn't fight. They were just hockey players, or they didn't want to fight, or they were scared to fight. Right.

You know that, that why have we given this advantage to guys with no talent and allowed them to jump ahead of the queue and have a position in the greatest hockey league in the world or other great leagues because they can drop their gloves and do something that's against the rules? To me, it really doesn't pass the logic.

It reminds me of the steroid argument because once in a while, somebody will make a passion plea, we should legalize steroids. They're all taken anyways, let them take it. But then you realize that you're basically, if you don't take it, you can't compete. You're basically making it so a kid coming up who's got the talent has to start using something that's bad for his health to compete.

Or he won't make it. It's basically, that's the reason you can never make steroids legal. And I agree with you on the fighting. The best hockey we'll watch all year might be the World Juniors. If the Olympics are on, it's always the Olympic hockey, playoff hockey.

Most hockey, there's no fighting. Yeah, you're right. And in the playoff hockey, no one ever says, oh, this game would have been better with a fight. We never, ever say that. Yeah, and now it's really largely organized between two guys who are legitimizing themselves.

I'll never forget my eight-year-old daughter. She's now 24. And she decided, she said, dad, I think I'd like to play hockey. So this was a long time ago when women's hockey was still really just starting. This would have been whenever. And she said, I'd like to play hockey. Okay, all right. Well, I think we can find a team or do whatever.

And she says, but I don't want to have to fight. I said, sweetie, you don't have to fight. And I could say that to her, but shouldn't every Canadian be able to say that to their son as well as their daughter, that they don't have to fight to play the greatest game on the planet? I agree. What are your thoughts as a Rogers hockey guy?

Let me decline this. Oh, I was going to say we have some breaking news maybe. Was that Kessel's trade? No, no, producer from Sportsnet. Maybe he's letting you know about the Kessel trade. Why haven't you tweeted about it yet? Yeah, that's right. I doubt it.

I think this phone would be bouncing. There's a special ring. Yeah, that's right. It's it. I think this phone would be bouncing. There's a special ring. Yeah, that's right. It's like a bad phone. A bad phone. Hey, do you ever, you don't have any, this is completely back because I just thought of it now, but does anyone ever talk to you about your tweets? Like you're 100% independent when it comes to how you use Twitter. You don't have any like boss giving you guidelines or any direction? No. guidelines or any direction.

No. I don't really work well with guidelines. I've never had anybody at either the Toronto Star or TSN or Sportsnet or the fan or anybody ever tell me what I can say or what I can't say. So they said stop picking on the poor pension plan puppets, guys. No, that memo never came across your desk. Was I picking on them? I can't remember the details. I don't want to talk about perceptions anymore.

Now I'm sticking to reality. No, but I don't know who we're talking about. I'm sorry. Yeah, it's just somebody reminded me of a story where you, I guess, I don't know, you had a Twitter fight. We're going back now. I'd say five years maybe. I don't really notice who it is. So if

someone came up to me, I'm sure if one of these guys from the pension plan puppets, those guys, if they came up and said hi and introduced themselves and wanted to debate to me, I'm sure if one of these guys from the pension plan puppets, if they came up and said hi and introduced themselves and wanted to debate with me, I'd be happy to. I'm going to let Julian know that. Anytime. The Rogers has just announced, this is, sorry, not, well, it is Rogers, but the Fan 590 has announced a new morning show. So Brady and Lang are going to one to four, I understand.

And then Dean Blundell, formerly of 102.1, is going to be the new morning guy at 590. Do you have any thoughts on that big move? Not really. I don't know his work. I know the story and some of the controversy to some degree.

I know morning show radio is really tough. I've done it. And getting up at four o'clock in the morning is going to make anybody crazy. It's a battleground and it's tough and they have to make decisions based on readings. But I don't really have an opinion on him. They didn't play Rush on 102.1. No, no Rush. Okay.

So I know you, whether it's these other guys you're telling me about, I think I'm probably less aware of a lot of this stuff than people, you know, I don't. That's fair. I'm only asking because you're on that station. that morning radio is tough. And I've never, like sometimes I've agreed with the directions and what they've tried to do with the show and sometimes I haven't. And I think it's a real challenge to figure out what people want to listen to

in the morning. Did you ever listen to Brady and Lane? I know that's not very helpful. No, it's all fair. But Brady and Lane? Yes, and I've been a guest on their show. And so I know you might be a little biased here, but do you like that?

That's a morning show you enjoyed? Yeah, yeah. I think it was a good show. But you know what? Probably the times I listened to it was when I was on it. Well, then you really liked it. I kind of listen to the CBC and stuff. I do too. You know, Matt Galloway's coming on. Oh, is he? Yeah. Well, then you really liked it. I kind of listened to the CBC and stuff. You know, Matt Galloway's coming on.

Oh, is he? Yeah. Well, there you go. It's got to go through some CBC PR cycle. Like, I've never had this with any other guest, but I was interviewed by a PR person at CBC about what it's about. It's not like Matt can just sort of say,

I'm coming over and doing it, which is how it's been with everyone else. But there's a whole CBC rule set there. So, yeah, I don't really have an opinion for you. Do you have an opinion on David Clarkson? Do you think he was just sat for two games as a healthy scratch? Do you think he would have been sat if he was making $2.5 million on like a three-year deal?

No, I was actually having this conversation with Nick Kiprios last night because I've been around the game long enough that I remember covering it when nobody knew what the salaries were. And if nobody knew what David Clarkson made, they would just think of him as a guy they either thought, he's okay or I don't like him, I don't think they should get somebody better. But the dollars that are attached to his name make him a polarizing player. And the fact that his contract is relatively,

you can't get out of it, exacerbates that feeling. I think he's a nice guy who's got caught in something that if he could get out of it, he would. And he can't get out of it now. And I think he's a nice guy who's got caught in something that if he could get out of it, he would. And he can't get out of it now. And I think the performance, I think he had this one, like you have that outlier. We talk about outliers, but he had one season in New Jersey where he potted 30 goals, right? And I think a lot of fans expect 30 goals a year from David Clarkson.

But if you take that season out, take the outlier out of the equation, the performance we're getting is pretty much what he is. Like we're getting David Clarkson. Well, I mean, the people who say, well, first of all, I think that a lot of people and I think people in the media, maybe myself included, are guilty of this, is we define what the narrative and then we backtrace it. And so nobody screamed bloody murder when David Clarkson was signed. No. Nobody said this is the worst signing. They should not do this. This will get – Dave Nona should be fired for this.

Nobody said that. But it's turned out this way, and now everybody says, well, they never should have done that, which is fine. And clearly it's not a move that has turned out very well. But I think it's not the worst contract in the NHL. It's close. Would you feel better if you had Alex Salmon and his two goals a year for another three years at $7 million? Or if you had Mike Richards, whose contract is so bad,

they have to bury him in the minors? Would you trade Clarkson for Richards straight up? It's an interesting question. It's a very interesting question. Problem is, of course, that I think Clarkson has every form of no movements, no trade, no whatever. But he gets to go to LA? That might be enticing.

Yeah, and you know what? I think like a lot of the Leafs that people want traded, whether it's Dion Phaneuf or Phil Kessler or David Clarkson or whatever, they'll go somewhere else

and they'll be pretty successful. On that note, are there any untradables right now? Like, is there anyone you look at and they're off, or is everybody available

for the right price right now? You know, I would say Morgan Riley is a guy who I would think is untradeable. But if you said to me, if the Leafs somehow ended up with the second pick in the draft and the Sabres said to them, we'll give you the first pick if you give us Morgan Riley, I'd give them Morgan Riley. Sure.

Well, everyone's got a price, you know. Exactly. So it's untouchable. I don't think, I'm not sure it exists in hockey except for... You'll take the call. Yeah. But I believe that Morgan Riley is a player, and I think people are seeing it now,

a player and a person that they can build around. I think he's Duncan Keith, and that that is a piece going forward that they can work with. Other than that, I think it's going to take some real ingenuity from Brandon Shanahan, Dave Nones, and Mark Hunter, and Kyle Dubas to figure out not just what to get rid of, but what to keep. And the what to keep part of it may be even trickier

than the what to get rid of part. Do you think Nones should be around to make these decisions? To get rid of part. Do you think Nona should be around to make these decisions? Me personally, I would say yes. Even though he signed Clarkson to that terrible contract. Well, I think so. So Ken Holland signed Stephen Weiss to that contract.

Should he be fired? No. I think you have to look at, and people want to just point to one thing and say that, you know, the one thing that they should really point at is the record, and that is what it is. And so if you want to say Dave Nones hasn't made the playoffs in two years, he should be fired, I've got no answer for you. in two years, he should be fired. I've got no answer for you.

But if you want to say, okay, let's look at the full breadth of what he's done, what he's put in place, where this team is positioned going forward, what can be done. I think he's an experienced guy who's respected around the league, who has good contacts, who's done some really good things. Do you think i mean they signed daniel winnick nobody wanted him now all of a sudden they're gonna be able to that's true that is true you know he got cody franson out of nashville um they made the trade joffrey lupo and jake gardner for francois bosheman i think that's been a pretty good trade um there have been any

number of moves but the most important thing that I think he's done is, I think this will be the 50th year in a row that they'll draft in the first round. That doesn't seem like very long, but I covered this team on a regular basis for 25 years, and every other time they would have found themselves in this circumstance, they would have already traded away their first pick. And so now you're seeing Nazem Kadri.

And if you don't like him, look at the guys who were drafted after him. Morgan Riley, William Nylander. Yes. Who's got great hair. He sure does. I'm very jealous. And I think Dave Nonas has put an end to that.

Do they need to draft better? Yeah. Do they need to do a lot of things better? Yeah. If you can tell me who you want to hire instead of them, I'll tell you what I think. But I think on the basis of everything, I'd keep them. So I just want to know, as a proud Canadian who's excited that he now has Canadians who are like a threat to make the quarterfinals and majors every time, which is something we've never had, to be honest. I don't think in the men's side we ever had it. But we now have Eugenie Bouchard and Milos Renic.

So my question is, do you see either of these guys could ever be number one in the world? Well, I think Bouchard could be number one. I think there's a difference between being number one in the world and being a Grand Slam champion. I think they both can win Grand Slams. I think Bouchard has probably a better chance to be number one in the world because the women's tour is really weak right now. I think that's a bigger challenge for Roundage.

But I do think they can both win Grand Slams. And I sometimes, when I talk about it, I get unhappy because if I'd stayed at the Toronto Star, where I went to Wimbledon, I think for 10 straight years, I'd still be going to Wimbledon and I'm not this year. And this is a great era for Canadian tennis. I mean, it really, it's exciting. And I think it's drawing in a lot of people who didn't watch tennis to watch it.

We've never, in my lifetime, this has never happened. There's been blips, like blips, like on the woman's side, but we've never had a male tennis player, as far as I can remember, who could even challenge for a major in my lifetime. No, not in your lifetime. No. In anybody's.

In anyone's lifetime, right. Yeah, it just has not existed before. That's exciting. I'm not even sure that Milos Raonic has been recognized enough for his accomplishments just to get to this. Because there's that big four, right? You got the big four in tennis and there's this juggernaut big four.

And it's tough to get past that. Father Time will help us with a couple of them, I think. Well, I think that's true. And that's when Raonic, although to me, he looks like right now, he could win this year. He could win a Grand Slam. Given the right draw, given the right now, he could win this year. He could win a Grand Slam, given the right draw, given the right results, given the few things going his way,

and that's often the way it works. Last question. First of all, thank you for this because you gave me an hour and I sucked every last second out of that hour. But who do you think is the best sports journalist working today? What, in the world? Let's do in Canada. Boy, oh boy.

Got to finish off with a tough one, man. Is this print or broadcast? However you like. Is there a sports journalist working today you think is doing exceptional above and beyond work that should be recognized? Well, let me see. Can I throw a few names? Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. Hey, I think

Elliot Friedman, who I work with, does a great job. I really do. I think Elliot really is passionate about his work and does a terrific job. I think Cahal Kelly at the Globe is probably... Well, no, he isn't probably he is the best sports columnist in toronto now and uh that gives him a national reach i worked with kahl at the uh

at the uh toronto star when he was there i think it's an awful thing for the star that he left right around the same time I did. And I think he is, for my money, the most interesting read and the straightest shooter, the toughest nut out there. So I have enormous respect for Cahal and the job he's doing there. And he's funny on Twitter, for what that's worth. Yeah. No, he's a funny guy. He's a smart guy. So without waxing too poetic on him, I mean, there's a number of guys like Cam Cole out

in Vancouver I've read for years and years, and I think Cam does a great job. And Stephen Brunt is as good as anybody. So if I give you those four names, will that make you happy? It's four times as happy as I would have been otherwise. No, it's perfect. Thanks again. And that brings us to the end of our 110th show. You can follow me on Twitter, at Toronto Mike,

and Damian, at Damo spin, Damo spin or Damo spin. How do you say that to people? Damo spin. Damo spin. Like Damaso Garcia. I like that. That was the nickname they gave me when I started covering hockey.

See you all next week. Thank you.