Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Dan Hill: Toronto Mike'd #1109

Episode Date: September 12, 2022

In this 1109th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike is joined by Dan Hill as they discuss Sometimes When We Touch, Tears Are Not Enough, Can't We Try and more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome I'm from Toronto where you wanna get city love I'm a Toronto Mike, wanna get city love So my city love me back for my city love Welcome to episode 1109 of Toronto Miked Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals

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Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. And Canna Cabana. the lowest prices on cannabis, guaranteed over 100 stores across the country. Learn more at cannacabana.com. Today, making his Toronto Mike debut, is singer-songwriter Dan Hill. Dan, welcome to Toronto Mic'd.

My pleasure. Great to be here. Thank you. And I want to thank FOTM Blair Packham as well, because I understand you'll have to tell me if this is true or not, but he basically cornered you at Song Studio and talked you into making your Toronto Mike debut. Is that at all accurate? Well, what he had to tell me about what you guys do was really, really interesting and inspiring.

So I was really happy that he was able to facilitate this. Well, I'm going to tell you right now, Blair just earned himself another Palma Pasta lasagna. Perfect, perfect. I'll be taking care of him. You're a Toronto guy, Dan. right now. Blair just earned himself another Palma Pasta lasagna. Perfect. I'll be taking care of him. You're a Toronto guy, Dan, so I'm really looking forward to this. What neighborhood did you grow up in? I grew up in Don Mills.

I guess now it's really referred to as North York. My dad bought the house. Actually, it's the house that I live in now. In 1965 for $18,000, which was at that time, as you know, considered to be a terrific amount of money. Ever since 1965, I've pretty much lived here. Amazing. we're talking about your dad off the top here, because I got a great note. And throughout this conversation, I'll sprinkle in messages I got from listeners when they found out Dan Hill was going to be on Toronto Mic'd.

But Rock Golf, that's what he calls himself on Twitter. He says, amazing family. His father was an Ontario ombudsman. His brother wrote the bestselling The Book of Negroes. Tell me a little bit, if you don't mind, off the top, before we get into your great career, what was it like growing up in a family where basically, I would say, writing is in your blood?

Well, you know, yeah, Dad made it clear to all of us by the time we were three that if we wanted anything, we had to write a letter. So, for example, if my brother wanted to have a kitten, he would have to write a very articulate letter explaining why he wanted this kitten and what responsibilities he would take. So the power of the word, the written word and the spoken word, was absolutely paramount in our family. Amazing.

And here's a little interesting note here, and I'm wondering when we can make this happen, but it seems like your dad was made an officer of the Order of Canada back in 1999. Have you yet received that same honor, Dan? No, my brother has, though. But remember, you know, it was, unfortunately, my dad, I'm not, this has nothing to do with me, but my dad actually was given this honor far too late. You know, when he finally got this honor,

he was too enfeebled to actually go to Ottawa. So at the time Adrian Clarkson came, came to our house. So, you know, I, I, I've had a, my success is has been much, much more profound in America than in Canada. You know, my songs have always done better elsewhere. So therefore, I don't expect that I'm going to be getting any of these kind of awards in Canada.

Well, Dan, I hate to burst your bubble there, but very recently I had Donovan Bailey on the program and I was outraged that Donovan had not yet been made an officer of the Order of Canada. And I kind of pled the case during his episode of Toronto Mic'd. And next thing you know it, he was made an officer of the Order of Canada. And I kind of pled the case during his episode of Toronto Mic'd. And next thing you know, he was made an officer of the Order of Canada. So I think I can do the same for you. Thank you.

Well, it's great that you did that for Donovan Bailey. Obviously, if anyone would deserve it, it would be him. So great. I'm so happy that he has that honour, well-deserved. And I'm really, really touched that you advocated for Donovan Bailey. I'm going to do the same for you, Dan, don't worry. Here's a great note from a gentleman named David Lonsdale. He writes in, as a former classmate of Dan Hill at Victoria Park Secondary School, I don't have any clear memory of seeing him attend any classes, but plenty of

memories of Dan strumming his guitar sitting under the staircases to the second floor. VPSS was very loosey-goosey about attendance at that time, and it was clearly a perfect high school situation for Dan. So what do you say about David's memories here and, you know, discovering that you had this musical gift? here and uh you know discovering that you had this musical gift well he he's accurate you know he's very accurate um i did not attend a lot of classes i did not finish high school and i was always with my guitar and i was playing it everywhere everywhere uh in the in the portables in front of the portables you know in the classrooms you know in the bathrooms i was just my guitar was pretty much glued to my side

since I started playing it when I was, say, seven or eight. I understand that when you're in high school, you're actually also singing and performing at, like, coffee houses and at concerts? Well, this is the thing about Toronto, which you know, is that Toronto was a very, very rich city in regards to where you could perform live. If you were, at the time, it was called folk singers.

We weren't called singer-songwriters, say, in the 60s. There were so many church basements, so many unbelievable coffee houses, restaurants, bars, you know, even places like the CNIB, you know, Canadian National Institute. You know, there were probably the CNIB, you know, Canadian National Institute, you know, there are probably literally about 100 different places in Toronto, where you could perform for, you know, for free, for example, or you could listen to shows, for example, as you know, the Riverboat

had everybody from Gordon Lightfoot, to Neil Young, to Joni Mitchell, to James Taylor, to Jackson Brown, to Harry Chapin, I could go on on all as they were on their ascent. And I, as a kid, went to every one of these shows. And also there was a coffee house called Grumbles. One week they had Randy Newman and Jim Croce as a cold headliner. So it was, I don't think there was a better city in the world for live music at that time. So I was everywhere, it was an, I don't think there was a better city in the world for live music at that time. So I was everywhere.

I played everywhere. There were, there were kind of like audition nights, you know, where you could do one or two songs, hoot nanny nights. That was, it was, it was the, you know, who used to live here and played here all the time? Rick James. Yes. Because he was a draft dodger. Yeah. And he was, he did a lot of work actually with neil young uh minor birds is that what they were the minor birds very good so again yet another toronto landmark uh yet another superstar that passed through toronto on the way to the top now did you ever play the the purple

onion uh yeah i did yeah okay so here's a Here's just a quick fun fact. One of the sponsors of this very program is Sticker U. Andrew Witkin is the founder of Sticker U. Andrew's father, Barry Witkin, was the owner of the Purple Onion. Amazing.

Kudos to him. That was an incredible club. You could also, even though the drinking age, I believe at this time was 18, by the time I was 15, I was getting in and playing in these establishments, lying about my age. They didn't check for my ID.

So I'd be playing these bars, you know, on, for example, Jarvis, Jarvis Street, singing my songs when I was 15. Okay, amazing. Now, you know, I'm going to do like a teaser because later in this conversation, we're going to get into a charity single, Tears Are Not Enough by the Northern Lights. But in that song, you're sandwiched between Joni Mitchell and Neil Young.

Yes, it was beyond an honor. It was 1985. I had to sing into a modulation, you know, a cold modulation, meaning there is no musical preparation. So I'm going, oh, my God, just just my life that I've given one of the uh induction into the canadian songwriter hall of fame ceremony at massey hall and the and people that that sang in the 1985 video single we will be singing it at that night meaning the people that are still around uh sadly as you know a lot of people have died since 85. So speaking of that iconic record, yeah, we're going to be re-performing it at Massey Hall June 24th. So what day is that?

June? You said June 24th, 2023? My mistake. I'm sorry. I've got too much coffee. September 24th, my mistake. So coming up. Okay, firstly, amazing.

But secondly is, remember, this is just the teaser because when we get into Tears Are Not Enough, I have questions, but that's a heck of a teaser right there. Since we got you back in high school, how do you get signed with RCA? I literally just sent a demo tape I'd made in my friend's studio whereby I sang three of my songs and played guitar live, so that was it. Mailed us RCA Records. I got a call from the A&R guy a week later.

He said, come on in. I want to see if you're as good live as you are on tape. I auditioned and then bam, I got my contract as a singer-songwriter with RCA at 18. The interesting part is I had no connections and that I just literally sent in a tape, you know, uh, that to me is kind of astonishing. Wow.

Okay. And, and I guess I'm wondering how it worked because you, you signed with GRT records, right? Like, so what you, you end up releasing your,

uh, is it your self titled debut? Your first album comes out, doesn't come out on RCA, does it? No, what I'm not going to get into RCA other than to say, although they appreciated my talents,

I didn't feel that they know they could figure out how exactly to market me, you know, or promote me or produce me. So I broke the contract, signed with a family that lived around the corner from me. And yes, we recorded my first album in 1974. And in 1975, it was released on GRT Records. Is You Make Me Want To Be, is that the first Dan Hill song that you ever heard on the radio?

Yes. And I was, interesting backstory was that Harry Belafonte loved the song so much that he flew me to New York was singing along with my at the time demo of the song this was when I was in 73 and he wanted to record it but he wanted an exclusive and as much as I love Harry Belafonte and always had I knew that I wasn't good enough that I could compete with the top singer-songwriters in the world, from Elton John to Bruce Springsteen, without my very best song. I couldn't come out with my second best song, and I knew at the time that my best song was You Make One of Me.

So I had to turn down Mr. Belafonte, which a lot of people thought was crazy, but it turned out to be a good move, because without that song, nothing else would have happened for me. Do you remember, Dan, which radio station you first heard You Make Me Want To Be on? The first radio station I heard it on was CHUM AM, which at the time was probably the most significant and important radio station in Canada. So, you know, I was really lucky.

They jumped on that song right away. And I still remember hearing it in my friend's car in the driveway of my house. And just, I guess you can only compare it to the first time you kiss a girl. You know, there's nothing like the first time you hear your song on the radio. I can only dream of these things, Dan. You know, I've yet uh hear my song on the radio which is probably a good thing but when you're hearing it on 10 50 chum and we all know what 10 50 chum was when it was a top 40 radio station by any chance do you remember which jock was on

which jock was on the radio when you they kicked out your jam uh i'm trying to think uh he had a nickname uh oh uh i think it was a shotgun it was shotgun something tom rivers exactly man you're good yeah shotgun tom rivers that was the first time i heard it he's no longer with us he died rather young but tom rivers uh moved from 1050 to 680 CFTR when I first kind of got into top 40 radio. And I would wake up to Tom Rivers on 680. So I was a big fan. And he had an amazing voice, amazing presence. And at that time, you know, to be a DJ on a station like Chum was akin to that. You were your own celebrity in a sense not unlike what happened with the vjs

that much music say in the 80s so these these uh djs were held in the highest highest regard amazing okay my friend uh you you gave me permission to play a little music during our chat and i think it's going to help things so i'm actually going to uh and i hope i hope you're comfortable hearing yourself and you should be because this is a heck of a song that still means a lot to so many of us. But let me play a little bit of a certain Dan Hill hit, and then we got to talk about it. Sure. Sure. You ask me if I love you And I choke on my reply

I'd rather hurt you honestly Than mislead you with a lie And who am I to judge you On what you say or do I'm only just beginning To see the real you And sometimes when we touch The honesty's too much

And I have to close my eyes and hide I want to hold you till I die Till we both break down and cry. I want to hold you till the fear in me subsides. Dan, you wrote yourself a big hit here that I legitimately think means just an awful lot to not just Canadians but the whole world and I'm dying to know how this song came together well there's a two different parts to the song I originally wrote the song in 1973 when I was 19 and it was written because a female I was involved in an older woman was a was a was giving me a hard time, basically.

I wanted to be in an exclusive relationship with her. And she was in a relationship with a lot of the other guys. At the time, I was making $1.89 an hour at the civil service. I had had some action on my songs as a songwriter. But obviously, I wasn't a big shot to her. So she was going out with older guys. She was going out with football players. And I felt I had to write a song that would make her feel that I was worthy of her exclusive attention.

I thought that was my only chance. So two days coming home from the civil service, I wrote Sometimes When We Touch. You know, she would always ask me if I loved her. And if I said yes, she'd say you're too needy. If I said no, she said you're too cold. So that's why this song started with you ask me if I love you and I'd show come my reply. Anyway, so I kind of felt as I wrote the song that lyrically I touched on things no one had ever touched on before. I just kind of knew it, you know. And so I phoned her up and played her the song. Back then you would play

songs to women, you know, over the phone with your guitar like this and holding the phone like that. And I play her the song thinking this is it. Now she's just going to want to be with me. There was a martyred sigh afterwards she said danny did anyone ever tell you for a 19 year old you're too damned intense i'm moving in with the football player so the song chased her out of the country um and then um what happened is by the time that 1977 occurred i'd already had two big albums in can, but I was set up with one of the greatest melody writers in the world, Barry Mann, who co-wrote, for example, You've Lost That Love and Feeling, which was the most played song of all time. And I gave him my lyric. He came up

with the music to Sometimes When We Touch. 77, 22, I went back to Toronto, cut the song. I was 22, having absolutely no idea what was going to happen. There's no way in the world you could predict, you know, what was going to happen with a song like that. So we knew it was a special song. We were afraid that it was too real, that people may be frightened by it, you know, because I was saying stuff that men don't traditionally say in songs. Right.

And so we didn't know if that would frighten people. We knew it would be a hit unless it happened to be just too good and too ahead of its time. And by hit, I mean, this was number three on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100, number one in Canada. But that Billboard Hot 100, that is sort of the de facto chart that we always talk about. And number three, do you remember what song, and I don't have this at my disposal, I'm hoping you remember, but do you remember what song, you know, was number one,

like sort of blocked you from number one on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100? At the time, the biggest selling record in the world was the BG Saturday Night Fever. And they were going for a one, two, three sweep. You know, for example, they had Stayin' Alive, they had How Deep Is Your Love, and Night Fever. And they were going for a one, two, three sweep. You know, for example, they had Stayin' Alive. They had How Deep Is Your Love and Night Fever. Those were the three songs. And so I was three. So I broke up their sweeps, you know, the sweep of one, two and three. So because of sometimes they ended up being one, two and four. Wow. And I mean, that jam was such a big hit that next thing you know, you're on the Merv Griffin show, you're on the Mike Douglas show. This is quite the heyday for you.

of this hit and interestingly enough it took over countries and continents three months at a time because today if you release a single it's out around the world at the same time back then I hit in Canada for three months then then it became a hit in America for three months then it became a hit in Europe then Asia so I was literally chasing that song around the around the world the good thing is I didn't have time to think wow wow, this is amazing. I have a hit. No, I was just too busy. I just had so many shows I had to do. Wow. A very interesting email came in from Steve Cole, who's a listener of this program. Steve said, in fact, he sent me these clips. I'm going to forward them to you when I get a hold of your email address, just because you might be interested to read this. But he says,

to you when I get a hold of your email address just because you might be interested to read this, but he says, here's a newspaper article from 1978 that says an unnamed Toronto music critic who was a Hill hater, that's in quotes, Hill hater, how can there be a Hill hater? Anyway, bet four music

industry insiders a Chinese dinner from the best restaurant in the world that sometimes when we touch would stiff and never make the charts. This article wonders if Hill is aware of this bet. So the question from Steve, I think the obvious one is, Dan, were you aware of this bet that existed with this music industry insider and critic at the time?

Yes, I was aware of that. You know, this is the deal. Yeah, this song scared a lot of people, you know. And obviously, not only did it become a hit around the world, but you can never foresee anything like this, but it then became a classic. So in this particular case, you know, the facts speak for themselves. The stats speak for themselves. But yeah, the Canadian critics did not like me. Back then, you weren't supposed

to be vulnerable as a male. That was thought of as being an egregious weakness. You know, nowadays, everything's changed so much to be vulnerable as a male is supposed to be healthy. You see, so it threatened a lot of men because it was so vulnerable. And, you know, the vocal was a pretty erotic vocal. You know, again, not a lot of people sang that way with that kind of tone and that kind of breathiness. So, yeah, it scared the bejesus out of a lot of people. And they would say stuff like I was an embarrassment to the Canadian music industry blah blah blah but they didn't see that actually that song

probably funded about a thousand jobs for Canadians and paid millions of dollars into the Canadian you know economy because of the taxes you know did you know who that critic was well there were a few critics uh yeah i i knew most of the well the music business in canada at that time again we're talking 1970s pretty small business you know there were not a lot of people uh putting out internationally international hit records in canada there was gordon lightfoot there was the guest who um and there was a, and myself, right? So yeah, I knew who they were, you know, but I did not communicate with them.

I didn't phone them or complain. I did not write it. Part of the deal is if you have decided that you want to try to be a quote unquote, a famous person, you have to accept the good with the bad. So I couldn't be pocketing millions of dollars in royalties on the one hand and then bemoaning the blowback I was getting from critics at the other. That was just part of the job. So yeah, there was a lot of that.

But remember, I think it was Frank Sinatra that said success is the best revenge. So I just A lot of that. But remember, I think it was Frank Sinatra that said, success is the best revenge. Yes. So I just kept my mouth shut and just kept on doing what I did. Well, it's interesting to look back and that maybe in 1978, there was this sentiment that men couldn't be feely. We couldn't be emotional like that because that's a generation raised by men who worship john wayne right like this is this i don't want to blame john wayne for everything

but it this you know when we watch like wonder years you know the dad on wonder years not a touchy feely huggy lovey dad well this is the thing that was found to be the most interesting is, who did I listen to? 25-year-old white male critics or Tina Turner, Dolly Parton, Rod Stewart, Gary Manilow, you know? So I would much rather have Tina Turner loving sometimes when we're touching Dolly Parton, who says it's the best song ever written, than pay attention to some 25-year-old critic who's a failed musician.

So that's the reality. I had a choice as to who to listen to. So I didn't realize Dolly said that. Man, that's amazing. So Dolly said that sometimes When I Touch was the greatest song she'd ever heard or something? Yeah, she said she wished she'd written it. And she cut it as a duet with Kenny Rogers

along with Tammy Wynette. And the other thing that you may not know is when that song came out, there was a huge demonstration by feminists in New York claiming that my line, at times I'd like to break you and drive you to your knees, advocated violence towards women. They did not seem to figure out that it was a metaphorical line, but the minute Tina Turner

and Dolly Parton put it out, there were no more, there were no more demonstrations claiming that it advocated violence. So apparently a woman could sing it and it was cool, but a man couldn't sing it. So there's all this kind of crazy stuff going on,

you know, at which point I just said, whatever. Well, listen, Dan, there's so many great covers as you just alluded to, but I actually pulled three. So is it cool? And I pulled Tina's as well. But can I play a little bit of three covers and just to get like hear what you thought of these covers? Sure.

Okay. You mentioned Tina. Let's start with her. You ask me if I love you And I choke on my reply Oh, I'd rather hurt you honestly Than mislead you with lies Who am I to judge you On what you say I do I'm only just beginning To see the real you

Sometimes when we touch The honesty is too much And I have to close my eyes And hide I wanna hold you till I die Till we both break down and cry I want to hold you till the fear in me subsides Wow, okay, Dan, what do we think of Tina Turner's cover of Sometimes When We Touch?

Romance and all of its strategy Tina Turner's cover of Sometimes When We Touch. So ladies and gentlemen, I have the song playing, so I'm going to let it play while we wait for Dan to unfreeze. He actually had a Zoom issue, so let's bring back Tina, and then we'll get Dan reconnected here. It's going great. Thank you, Dan Hill. Thank you, Dan Hill. Well, the honesty is too much Well, I have to close my eyes and hide I wanna hold you till I die

Until we both break down and cry I wanna hold you till the building may subside Oh, I wanna hold you till I die Until we both break down and cry And I have to hold my head high Oh, I wanna hold you till I die Until we both break down and cry Dan, I figured while you till I die Can we both break down and cry? Dan, I figured while you left the Zoom

because of a connectivity issue, I just let Tina belt it out, so we're all good here. What do you think of Tina Turner's version of your Sometimes When We Touch? I loved it. She told me that she heard the song when she was still in a very bad relationship with Ike, and that song spoke to

her so then she went out and purchased all my albums at that point so what I love about her version is that the church in her voice and her interpretation also she seemed to she took it took it on in a more aggressive way than I did which is great the whole point of a interpretation of someone's song is to do it in a different way so i you know she's one of the greatest of all time obviously uh and uh i feel that her cover i can't think of a better cover of that song than tina's i love the the power the soul the church and i loved how she was kind of aggressive with it. Oh, yeah, no argument here, no argument here. But there's another great cover I'm going to play here for us. Here we go.

You ask me if I love you And I choke on my reply I'd rather hurt you honestly Than mislead you with a lie And who am I to judge you in what you say or do? I'm only just beginning to see the real you. And sometimes when we touch The honesty's too much And I have to close my eyes And hide I wanna hold you till I die

Till we both break down and cry I wanna hold you till the fear in me subsides Dan, how's Rod doing here? You know, he's, again, one of my favorite singers. The story on Rod and this song is that, Rod Stewart, I should say, is that he heard the song right after his mom died. And so he cried. It's for some reason he took that song and it brought him back to his mom and he was moved so much by the song juxtaposed with him just losing his mother that that that was why he recorded this song. You know, the great thing about music is that if you hear a song that

you really love, you remember the first time you heard it. So I still remember the first time I heard Maggie Mae when it was a hit. I was in Vancouver courting a girl who didn't think I was worthy, and that song was just bam. So again, extremely surprising for me, extremely flattering.

When we wrote the song, when I cut it, I never in a million years assumed that it would end up being one of the most covered songs of all time. I didn't think anyone would cut it because it was so darn personal. You see what I'm saying? So that's the thing about music is the beautiful thing about it is it's not formulaic and it's not predictable. I think the fact that I didn't think it was coverable was

probably one of the things that made it coverable. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, what you're saying is that it was personal to you, but it's a universal sentiment. We can all relate. And that's what you never know. Obviously, that's something we all aspire to, but you

don't know if it's something that is just so inner, so insular, I should say, that people don't get it, or if it's insular in the way that it speaks to people. So that is, again, something that you can't really predict. But in my experience throughout my careers, it's always been my most personal songs that have done the best. Now I've got one more here, and then we're going to move on

from this wonderful song, but this one's a more recent one, and I've got one more here, and then we're going to move on from this wonderful song. But this one's a more recent one, and I think you had more involvement in it. So I'm going to let, I should point out, my wife is of Filipino descent. And when this gentleman was on the top of the boxing circuit, it was appointment viewing. So let's just hear a little bit of this one.

So let's just hear a little bit of this one. you wear the line And who am I to judge you on what you say or do I'm only just beginning to see the real you And sometimes when we touch

the honesty's too much. And I have to close my eyes and hide. I wanna hold you till I die, till we both break down and cry. Till we both break down and cry I wanna hold you till the fear in me subsides That, of course, is Manny Pacquiao. Do you have a story here? How did this come to be? Well, a friend of mine said, do you guys see what's going on in the TV?

She takes me to where the TV is, and I see this Filipino man singing sometimes when we touch on a big talk show in America. And there were all these Filipino women in the audience going absolutely crazy. And I didn't know at the time who Manny Pacquiao was, but I then quickly found out. And one thing led to another and he's gone public saying

he had his three favorite songs of all time were imagine yesterday and sometimes when we touch so we we got together and made the record of sometimes when we touch it and i coached him through the vocal a lot of times now i'm like the vocal teacher, right? And so we went to Capitol Studios in America where Frank Sinatra and Elvis used to record. And he recorded it there. I was in the studio. I sang harmonies, some of the choruses. And I got to know and befriend Manny, who's an amazing guy. And we ended up going all over the world together you know with this song that he'd recorded but the

the fun part for me is like it was a an entree into the world of boxing which in and of itself is a wacko world you can only imagine so that was a tremendous tremendous uh adventure for me yeah i would go to his press conferences you know he you. We'd be hanging out after one of his fights. We'd be singing all night long. It was a great experience working with Manny and traveling with him. He's a very, very nice and sweet person.

Some say he's the future president of the Philippines. You heard it here first. That's true. Rob Del Mundo wrote in and asked did manny give you uh any uh boxing lessons uh no uh but funny thing is though that he'd always want me to see his fights and of course to be a get a front row ticket to see him fight it you know in vegas um you something like crazy like eighteen thousand dollars and i kept Manny, you have to understand,

I don't want to see you get hit. It'd be like going to see my brother get hit. But he didn't seem to see it that way. He kind of saw it as this grand performance, you know. And so he would give me all these tickets to watch him. And I just, I was honest. I said, I can't go to this, but I would join him after the fight

and hang out in his dressing room. Or again, I can't, he fought 12 rounds with Mosby. I think that's how you pronounce his name. And then had the incredible endurance and strength to go and perform for six hours afterwards. How in the heck could anybody be that strong? So, you know, he, it was, he's a very, very sweet guy, very funny. And he's gifted at all. He's one of these guys that can do everything. He's a very, very sweet guy, very funny. And he's gifted at all. He's one of these guys that can do everything.

He's a great dart player. He's great at pool, great at bowling. He just seems to be gifted at so many different things. See, he probably sees it like having you there front row for one of his bouts would be the same as if you had him front row for your Massey Hall performance or something like that. That's exactly how he saw it. And again, extremely generous. He had quite the entourage, you know, when,

when we were working together at the Capitol studios, someone in the entourage secretly filmed us and then sold it to a TV station, the Philippines, and suddenly it was blasted around Asia. So again, you know, in some ways the boxing business is similar to the music business in terms of it can be pretty out of control and lawless and unregulated. So it was interesting to see the differences and the parallels between the two worlds. Interesting. Absolutely. Now, so you didn't get boxing lessons, but I did get a note from a Leslie. And Leslie wants to know if you still run because he says that she was in a running clinic with you in the mid-2000s. She doesn't think you'll remember her, but she was in a running clinic with you, and she wants to know what's your 5K personal best.

Well, yes, I remember being in that running club with you, Leslie. I do run. I'm still a habitual runner. I started running competitively at the age of 11. And luckily, often your childhood habits can determine the rest of your life. So it imbued in me this wonderful discipline. So I'm running actually the same routes now that I ran when I was 12, living in the same house.

Right. Amazing. Okay, now we tease this off the top, but I should preface this, Dan, by saying I've recorded a two-and-a-half-hour episode with Cam Gordon where all we did was talk about tears are not enough. So it's a mild, I won't call it an infatuation, but a passion. I just love dissecting it and everything. So what can you tell me? Like, who did you get the phone call from, Bruce Allen?

Like, what detail do you have where you found out that you were being asked to perform on this charity single by the Northern Lights? Right. It came through David Foster, who, as you know, is beyond an iconic songwriter, producer, legend. But already by 1985, he was probably one of the biggest producers and most successful songwriters in the world. So as you know, he wrote the song with Bryan Adams and Jim Vallance. And I'm not sure there may have been two other writers on the song. So in his capacity as a producer, he reached out and asked if I could do it.

And of course, I was thrilled and honored to do it. It happened at Manta Sound, the studio at Shoreburn in Adelaide, which is where I recorded my first five albums. Wow. And so I felt like I was returning home in a sense. Wow. And that was so I felt like I was returning home in a sense. The number of major legendary star celebrity artists was just pretty much overwhelming. And it was for some people, it was a little bit intimidating because when you were singing, you knew that Joni Mitchell and Gordon Lightfoot and Neil Young would be watching you. And so regardless of whatever you'd done in terms of your past hits,

you kind of felt like you were, you know, on trial there, seeing if you could, you could deliver on a song that you didn't write. So it was, it was very intense among other things, just the intensity of having all that star power around you. Did you, so one story I've always heard is that Geddy Lee did it all in one take. Because the Geddy Lee hook in that song I absolutely love. Your part's great too. I'm actually going to play it in a second here.

But Geddy Lee nails it in one take. How many takes did you get? I nailed it in the first take. But David Foster said it was a great take. He had me do more takes, but I couldn't beat the first take. So the take that I, my line that I'm singing was my first take.

Okay, here's, it's eight seconds. I mentioned you were the meat in the Joni Mitchell-Neal Young sandwich. I want to ask about that in a moment, but here's the, here's you in your solo. Seems like overnight We see a world in a different light Okay, so short but sweet. I was going to stick the whole song in there, but I didn't know how much time you'd have. But I will, like the fact,

did you know you were, I guess at the time you record that, do you know that you're following Joni and that Neil's going to come right after you? That's a really good question. You know, given, I think this was how many, this is 37 years ago. I knew that all these people were on the song,

though that being said, there's no guarantee that they would stay on the song if their vocal performances weren't up to par. It didn't matter if you were like a superstar you wouldn't make the final cut uh so i don't think i knew at the time i don't think david foster well he obviously must have known because he he'd already assigned the parts to all of us right that being said though no at that time i did not know i was going to be a sandwich between two two of the greatest songwriters of all time. And another famous story,

I think I asked Leona Boyd about this and I think she confirmed it, but you can also corroborate it, but like, I guess Neil Young does his take and then David Foster wants Neil Young to be more in tune and I guess Neil has a reaction something to the effect of,

that's like my sound man that's exactly what happened and David Foster is a bit of a we call them intonation freaks you know which is sometimes good and sometimes bad one of the great things about singing back then is not everything was perfectly in tune whereas now when there is out of tune it just seems a little bit too perfect so that's exactly what went down you know and neil neil young was right to say no this is it take me the way i am right we would accept nothing else and uh i think that the famous sign there was something to the effect of like like leave your ego at the door or something like that because

this is of course for a famine relief in uh in africa and it's a charity single there were some people that were egomaniacs i'm not going to say who oh uh most part everybody was very very well behaved but there was one person i'll just say he was what the one of the leaders of platinum blonde who behaved kind of like a diva okay well i obviously was not there but i did see uh the footage of people arriving arriving and a guy whose name rhymes with dark combs, his name rhymes with, he, he did arrive in a limo. Yeah. Well, I don't want to, he was the one that kind of acted out the most the most dramatically, but at the same time it was, it was a lot of fun. You know, that, that,

the whole, the thing about rock and roll, unlike say the book business, you get a lot of authors around know that the whole the thing about rock and roll unlike say the book business you get a lot of authors and around and their behavior there's more pressure on authors to behave well right whereas the great thing about rock and roll is you can pretty much behave any way you like as long as you can deliver the goods usually meaning a hit song right and so there's always going to be spectacularly inappropriate behavior when you put a bunch of rock and rollers together, which I love. It's like walking into a Tarantino movie. Oh, no, you had me at hello there. I agree 100%.

One little side note, and she's also an FOTM. So I should point out to you, you're like, Mike, what's an FOTM? You keep saying this. That's a friend of Toronto, Mike. Dan, you're now an FOTM. So you'll be carrying this badge of honor like the future Order of Canada you're going to receiveOTM so you'll be carrying this uh badge of honor like the uh future order of Canada you're going to receive you're going to be wearing this forever so you're an FOTM but Leona Boyd is also an FOTM and we had a great chat but she did arrive to this thing in

a fur jacket I just remember thinking that it seemed like a strange uh thing to wear to a benefit concert for famine relief but that's leona being leona yeah and she was not a diva but she a big part of leona's success this is not to take away from her natural gifts was her kind of her persona her image you know uh the fact that she'd been in relationship with pierre trudeau and with fidel castro uh And so it's befitting that she would do that because there was such a huge kind of mythology around Leona. Unlike, say, most of, you know, when you think of Neil Young or Gordon Lightfoot or Joni Mitchell,

you don't tend to think of their image or their persona. You just think, oh my God, if you could read my mind as the greatest song of all time. With Leona, there was this whole other thing going around. And Leona was pen pals with Prince Philip, I think, right up until the very end. And now I'm wondering, just because Queen Elizabeth II

passed away just last week, but did you ever meet the Queen? No, my brother, when he won the Commonwealth Award for Fiction, had a wonderful meeting with the Queen, you know, in London, you know, and he said that she was not only with it and very, very smart, but she was very curious as to black history in England. So his experience with her was absolutely wonderful.

Okay, great. All right, my friend. So this is 85. And when you first heard the finished product, Tears Are Not Enough, what were your initial thoughts when you heard it for the first time? people that participated in We Are The World, beyond a fan of Quincy Jones, to say the least. But it never really, it just seemed a little bit too, I don't know, self-involved, maybe.

You know, too self-important. We are the world, et cetera, et cetera. Whereas I thought that Tears Are Not Enough seemed a little bit more personal, you know. So, you know, I really preferred that song in terms of what the song was meant to do and how satisfied were you with your vocals I was really happy with you know the thing about being an artist is you're never 100 satisfied you know even when I hear some of my hits on the radio I think man I could have sung that better. But that being said, I felt quite good with the part that I did sing.

Okay, so this is 85 when you record the Tears Are Not Enough single. And at that time, now, real talk here, you're right, a bunch of Canadian hits, but there's only the one big, if I'm correct, and you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but there's only the one big, at this point in your career, you have the one big US hit.

Is any pressure, like are you feeling any pressure at this point in your career that you might be one of those one hit wonders that show up in trivia games, et cetera? Like you don't want to, was there anything like, oh, I need a second hit?

Well, what had happened since then though was that I had co-written a song that became a bigger hit for me everywhere except north america which was in your eyes which i wrote with the late great matt michael master that was a smash around the world for george benson jeffrey osborne and actually ended up making me more money and still makes me more money than sometimes when we touch uh so that a writer, I already knew. It's always been my case that my songs have always done much better than me. There are lots of Canadians that could outdraw me, say, at Massey Hall, but there's not too many that have the track record I have as a songwriter.

So having In Your Eyes as a hit, then having the theme for Rambo, Firsted as a hit all around the world, but North America. So I wasn't too concerned with it because I knew I would always have a success as a writer. That being said, when I wrote, can't we try and recorded it in 1986, I pretty well knew that that was going to be a smash. I knew that finally I could prove to the world that I could also as a recording artist, have an American hit. Well, I'm going to actually,

you're stealing my thunder here, Dan. Come on. I'm going to play that in a moment, but I just got to read another note from Joe Louis. Joe Louis said, this is for Dan Hill. Well, of course, Joe, I'm collecting questions for Dan Hill. Okay, back to Joe. I just wanted to point out the contrast of

It's a Long Road as the closing credits song for the violent and bloody First Blood and the love making backdrop possibilities of sometimes when we touch. He says amazing. So I think he's referring to the the con. That's he just he did tell me that first blood is actually his favorite movie of all time. But Joe Louis wanted to make sure I read that that note for you. Well, that was part of the fun for me of recording. First of all, it's the only song I ever recorded that I didn't write.

Secondly, the movie had not been totally put together and edited at that point. This was 1982, you know, in August of 82. And it was a very demanding song to sing because, you know, the song was written Goldsmith,

who was one of the best film composers at that time. I don't think he had a real sense of the range of a typical singer. I mean, there's no singer that can sing that song in one take because it's so high. So I sang that song. It was a real workout doing that. And I had no idea that it was going to end up being the second biggest movie of the year in 83 after E.T. Wow. Wow.

It was a I loved it because I was recording the Abbey Road Studios. It was fun to kind of record a song I didn't write that was extremely challenging vocally. And it did it did really,, you know, around the world. Okay, so let's get this next. By the way, this is an earworm. I actually, we talked about Blair Packham off the top. And every time I hear Last of the Red Hot Fools, which Blair wrote and performed at the Jitters,

it actually gets stuck in my head and bounces around in there for quite some time, but it's been supplanted recently because I listened to Can't We Try, which I'm going to play right now, and it really is an earworm, but I want to talk about it after I play a little bit

of it. People know the jam, but here is Dan Hill with Vonda Shepard. I see your face cloud over like a little girl and your eyes have lost their shine. You whisper something softly I'm not meant to hear.

Baby, tell me what's on your mind. I don't care what people say about the two of us from different worlds. I love you so much that it hurts inside. Are you listening? Please listen to me, girl.

Can we try just a little bit harder? Can we give just a little bit more? Can we give just a little bit more? Can we try to understand that it's love we're fighting for? Can we try just a little more passion? Can we try just a little less pride? Love you so much, baby, it tears me up inside I hear you on the telephone Wow.

So did you write this? You wrote this yourself, Dan? Well, I wrote it myself other than to say that my wife at the time came in as I was writing it and she suggested one lyric change which was when Vonda comes in in the second half of the second verse,

and she said, so many times I tried to tell you, but you just turned your way. So she wrote that line. Other than that, I wrote everything. And at that time, this is 87, Vonda Shepard's essentially unknown, right? How did Vonda get attached to this duet? Well, we had a lot of trouble finding a woman to sing the song with me that could match my passion, frankly. Sometimes it's hard for someone to sing a song with the same authenticity as me singing a song, because I wrote it so I can get inside the emotion more.

Vonda was probably the 20th female to audition for that song. And I knew that if I couldn't find a singer that could match my vocal, that I wouldn't have a hit with this song. It was like unbelievable force. And the very last person, my very last day in the studio in Santa Monica, in comes Vonda in her bicycle shorts. She cycles there.

She's 22. She walks up to the mic. And it was like the first two lines of the verse that she sings, I go, oh my God, this is a miracle. So there's no question that without Vonda's performance, that song would not have been a hit. And you knew right away, you knew this was going to be a hit. I knew it should be a hit.

For a song to be a hit, obviously there has to be more than it being a hit song. You have to have all the kind of stuff behind you. You have to have a lot of record company power behind you. There has to be kind of like the zeitgeist of the times. At the time, Alternative was really, really big, and people were claiming that in this Alternative climate that a song like that wouldn't be a hit,

but I knew if it got on the radio, it was going to be a hit, and it ended up being the number one adult contemporary Billboard song of the year. So it was an even bigger hit than I thought it was going to be. Wow, yeah. This one peaks at number six, but massive hit. And Vonda was so unknown. I mean, we kind of, she got pretty famous like a decade later for this theme song from Ally McBeal, Searching My Soul,

which was a big jam for her. But they spelled her name wrong, apparently, on the label for this single, Can't We Try. Yeah, sometimes they would misspell Bonda, which is, I believe, a Russian name. And also they would misspell Shepard. Yeah, I've been very lucky to have discovered amazing singers before they've become famous.

I mean, because of Can't We Try, Celine Dion came into my life because I needed someone to perform it with me. Vonda couldn't do it. So boom, in comes Celine. No one knows who she is. She only speaks French at that time. And without her singing Can't We Try with me, I never would have won a Grammy producing,

seduced me for her honor of Grammy winning album. Right, falling into you. Yes. Okay, I'm glad you mentioned Celine Dion. You know, yeah, so where is that Grammy right now? Actually, I have it on top of my piano. It's kind of to encourage me to continue to keep going back to the piano and write more songs.

Okay, amazing. Now, we're going to kind of jump around a little bit here as we wind down because it's kind of a little frenetic here. But I got to get serious for a moment here because I looked at my Toronto Mic'd recordings calendar and I see Dave Bedini's dropping by in a couple of days. Dave is with the Rio Statics, of course, and they did the whale music film soundtrack. the whale music film soundtrack. And I mean, I know that you were close with Paul Quarrington and I'm wondering if you could say some words about Paul.

Well, Paul, Paul and I were a folk singing duo actually. I think I was 14 when I was 15 and he was 16. He lived right. You know, he lived close to me just about a block away. His father actually taught my dad psychology at the U of T.

And Paul's younger brother, Joe Corrington, is now regarded as the greatest upright bass player in the world. So I was very lucky to be friends with the entire Corrington family. I learned so much from Paul. He knew more about playing guitar than I did at that age because my especially was classical guitar. And I think he kind of picked up a few things from me about singing and melody. A very, very smart guy. Very, very well read. He turned me on to so many great books. He and my brother were great friends. It was one of the greatest losses of my life to lose, to see Paul die of lung cancer.

And through Paul, I did meet Dave Bedini, whom I totally love and respect. He's a great guy. He's an extremely gifted individual as a writer as well as a musician. Dan, I'm so sorry for your loss. Yeah, we lost Paul far too soon. I'm sorry for your loss there. End of the day. A fact that Bedini fans and

Real Statics fans might be interested in is that Paul has a writing credit on Claire, which is probably I mean, if you have to pick which Real Statics song is the most successful single, it's

probably Claire. So there's a that's a great song. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, and Dave again visits me tomorrow.

No, Wednesday. OK, I get this right. They had it for me tomorrow? No, Wednesday. I've got to get this right. They had them for me. Oh, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. You know, that guy who sent me the newspaper clippings earlier had a second great comment. He says, this is Steve Cole.

Steve writes, Elton John was so impressed with Dan Hill's first album that he decided to come to Toronto to record his own upcoming album. So the question from Steve for you, Dan, did you have any relationship or contact with Elton John after this Guelph meeting or was it a one-off and Elton was never to be heard from again? And then the second question from Steve is, was there any boost to your career from the kind words and support that Elton John provided for you? Well, first I'll provide the background. This is what connected Elton John to myself

is the man who signed me to 20th Century Records, which ultimately became the label that broke me around the world. Russ Regan, the late Russ Regan also signed Elton John to his first American record deal and also signed Neil Diamond. So Elton John, Neil Diamond, then myself. So when, when Elton John was in LA visiting his record company, Russ Regan played in my entire first album because I only had one out and that's how Elton John was, was exposed to my music. One of the amazing things about Elton John is he's always been into other

people's music and he's always been into other people's music, and he's always discovering people's music before they become so-called stars. So what struck me about it, he caught one of my concerts in Guelph. Actually, that was the opening act of the great Maria Mulder. On the Pulp Fiction soundtrack. Yeah, and also remember her amazing hit, Midnight at the Oasis. Anyway, the thing that really hit menight at the Oasis. Anyway, the thing that really hit me about hanging out with Elton John, 1976 in Guelph, was he didn't want to

talk about himself. You know, he was probably the biggest star in the world at that time. You know, all he wanted to talk about was me. You know, what made you write You Make Me Want to Be a Father? I said, well, Elton, we listened to your song, and we copied every production trick on that record. we had the drum bat blasting in halfway through the record just like I said without your song there would be no you make me want to be but he was so humble

and so he was the opposite of being self-involved or narcissistic so I was very impressed by his curiosity I did end up going out for a little while with Kiki D who as you know was signed self-involved or narcissistic. So I was very impressed by his curiosity. I did end up going out for a little while with Kiki D, who as you know, was signed to Elton John's label and had the hit with Elton, don't go breaking my heart. Of course. Through my relationship with Kiki D, you know,

I had some more contact with Elton John. Wow. There's a mind blow right there for us. Okay. Tommy boy, not the label, but a gentleman who tweeted at me this question. Ask him, and I'm not even sure what I'm asking you here, so I'll just read it.

Ask him about his memories of singing Whole Lotta Love in the Rolston living room. Oh, okay. Well, I was, you know, I loved all kinds of music as a kid. Back then, you know, again, remember, I'm older than you, so it may have been different in your generation. But back then, boys were not supposed to like soft music, like, say, bread. And I loved bread.

I didn't care what anybody thought. But I loved all music. So I also really loved Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones. So I trained my singing based on Robert Plant's voice because he had such a great voice, but also such a huge vocal range. So I listened to him on Baby, I'm Gonna Leave You when he hits those high notes. And I would replicate those vocals, singing it into my pillow. So my dad wouldn't come out and smack me around for singing too loudly. So yeah, there's a guy that I went to school with,

Kevin Ralston, who was a very good bass player. So I used to go to his place, and this was at the time that Led Zeppelin was just breaking, and I would sing Led Zeppelin songs. I don't know how he put up with me, frankly. I apologize, Kevin. That's great, because I'm sure I think, is that a club, like the Ralston?

That's wild. Okay, thank you for explaining that one. Okay, so Basement Dweller wrote in he says as a junior high school student in the mid 80s I happily discovered Mr. Hill's 1983 novel Comeback in my school library and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and I'm just wondering if he's ever thought about writing and publishing more fiction well I did have a memoir come out in 2009, and I do have a new book coming out next year. But in both of those cases, I have to admit that these books are not fiction books. They're more, you know, my new book,

The Healing Confessions of a Biracial Songwriter, my experience is coming of age in Canada as a biracial performer, whereby there were really no other biracial performers or musicians other than, say, the great Oscar Peterson and Buffy St. Marie. So right now I'm just sticking to prose, and most of my fiction is being thrown into my songs. You said Buffy's name, so two fun facts for you. One is we talked about the Purple Onion,

which Barry Witkin was a co-owner of. I'm told she wrote, at least legend has it, she wrote Unknown Soldier at the Purple Onion. This is what Barry tells me anyways. But there's the first fun fact. But the second one is I spoke to Terry David Mulligan about Tears Are Not Enough. And Buffy was booked and all set to be on Tears Are Not Enough. but the second one is uh i spoke to terry david mulligan about tears are not enough and buffy was

booked and all set to be on tears are not enough and uh she apparently called bruce allen or something having to bail and bruce said to terry david he said buffy bailed and that expression is an expression that terry david mulligan has been using for decades and now people in the fotm community of Toronto Mike use that expression if somebody, you know, bails. It's Buffy. She Buffy bailed. So Buffy was not on Tears Are Not Enough,

but she was supposed to be on Tears Are Not Enough. Well, she's one of my heroes, to say the least. I mean, what an extraordinary talent, putting it mildly. And, you know, her songs are going to live on forever. And she's got an amazing voice. One thing about Buffy St. Marie, though, is she's the opposite of one to be noticed. She's not into publicity. You know, she's not into wanting to be famous.

You know, her work speaks for itself. So my guess is part of the reason she's so-called bailed is because she just didn't want to be part of the spotlight. I've met her. She's a wonderful woman, very, very warm and personable. But she definitely is not into being known or feted, so to speak. Well, Dan, I love that woman because I considered her my second mother because she was on Sesame Street when I was watching it every day. Yes, that's right. The late 70s there. I love Buffy St. Marie. Oh man, I do too. I do too. Canada Kev says, I always think of Catherine Fitch in the movie South of Wawa being all excited about going to the Dan Hill concert. Did you, Dan, have anything

to do with that at all? This scene from this movie that Canada Kev remembers? you, Dan have anything to do with that at all? Uh, this, this scene from this movie that Canada can't remember. No, I had nothing to do with that movie other than to say that I had a vague connection with the woman who was the producer of that movie. And one of the funny things that happened is that they use sometimes when we touch without getting permission from, from myself or my co-writer. And,

you know, you, you can't really use a song search. You know, lots of presidential elects use songs in their campaign, but they're not allowed to do it. It's against the law. So they used that song through the movie, but then Barry Mann, the co-writer, decided that he wanted more money than they were willing to give. And so then they turned around and wanted to sue me because I hadn't warned them that Barry Mann

would have won a lot of money in order to use this song. So I always think about that movie and the possibility of me getting sued because of some ridiculous business oversight. Yeah, that's not on you, man. Okay. By the way, I should have read this question when we were talking about Elton John

and your concert at the University of Guelph. But Mike O wrote in and he said he wanted to know if you remembered the concert at the University of Guelph back in the mid 70s of Elton John in attendance. As if you would forget that. But yes, you do. We talked about that. But then he says, I only know this because I was there backstage to do my first ever recorded interview with Dan as part of a college radio project. I believe Dan was the headliner with Maria Mulder opening. Elton was in Toronto recording his double album, Blue Moves,

and wanted to see Maria perform. As you can imagine, there was a huge buzz in the gym. I spent most of the time in Dan's dressing room, nervously waiting to meet him. Dan finally appeared and was a really lovely guy to speak with. Well, the reality is, as I, sorry to repeat myself, I was the opening act to

Maria Monterey. I had not had that international hit yet. I'd had two albums out, but it was sometimes when we touched on the third album. I love touring with Maria. I have nothing but tremendous respect, and I still do. She's still performing good for her. Elton John was actually holding some classes

at the University of Guelph, actually. That's why he was there. He was having something to do with the university. The real reason why people like Elton John and Rod Stewart were recording in Toronto was because there were tax laws in England at the time whereby if you recorded an album in England, your tax load would be way, way higher than if you went to Canada. Then there would be some kind of a loophole, a tax loophole. I'd love to say he was coming to Toronto because

of my recording at Manta, but no, he and Rod Stewart and all sorts of other huge stars from England were coming to Canada to record because they didn't have to pay as many tax dollars. Okay, glad you can clarify all that for Mike O, who was there. Basement Dweller wants to know, what did you think of James Blake's use of a sample from the awesome Frozen in the Night on last year's Foot Forward track? Well, this is news to me. Thank you for informing me. I don't really, it's pretty hard to stay on top of all the different ways that my songs are used. I mean, this is not to sound disingenuous, but there's just no way. I mean, I didn't know that Cashmere was using something like touching their toilet paper commercial,

which I'd wish they hadn't, by the way. I had no idea that was happening until someone let me know it was happening. So I would say 95, I didn't know that in Munich, before every soccer game, 70,000 fans sing Sometimes When We Touch. Wow. You know, it's pretty much impossible to keep track of all the action on all the different songs of mine. All I can say is I'm supremely grateful grateful and I feel like I'm one of the most

fortunate people in the universe. Jake the Snake. We love Jake the Snake. Jake the Snake says, any memories of performing at Festival of Friends at Gage Park in Hamilton in 77 or 78? Yes. I did an outdoor concert in Gage Park several times. But one of the times I performed there, someone threw a beer bottle at me and it missed my head by about half an inch.

So for some reason, I remember that concert because I almost got creamed. I've always felt a little bit more vulnerable in outdoor shows. I know I understand why people love to go to outdoor shows, but there's less separation, you know, between you and the audience. And so, you know, there's been some strange stuff happening where these kind of crazy people end up on stage or launching projectiles at you. Man. Ken wants to know, do you remember, sorry, yeah. Did you know record producer Harry, and I hope I say Harry Hind? Harry Hind. Okay. Yeah. I was worried I'd butch that, but, and if so, what are your,

your, your memories of Harry? He was a very, very sweet guy, very talented. He, he produced a lot of acts and did very, very well in Canada. And Harry actually was one of the first people to discover Shania Twain. I don't know if people know that now or not. Harry Hine was responsible for me getting my very first music publishing deal with Warner Chapel. So he became an early believer of mine when I was 19 because one of Harry's specialties was, was finding artists on the way up again, the great example being Shania Twain. And thanks to Harry,

I signed my first publishing deal with Warner Chappell, and then they got the great Cleo Lane to cut my song, Seat of Music. She was a huge jazz legend, mostly in Europe. So, yeah, Harry Hynde and I

were friends, and I was very, very sad to learn of his passing. Okay. Now, you mentioned you and Barry Mann, uh, you, you, you been co-writing with, with him, the legendary Barry Mann. I mean, we're talking jams from people like Robin Thicke and, uh, Lee Aaron and 98 degrees, uh, of all the songs you've written for these great artists, are there any songs you're particularly proud of co-writing?

Um, yeah, sure. You know, uh, songs you're particularly proud of co-writing um yeah sure you know uh there's a song i wrote with my my friend genius uh keith stiegel called back before the war uh that that uh the great um i have to look over at the platinum i'm sorry reba mcintyre cut back for the war uh on her platinum selling album i've always thought that was one of the best songs I've ever collaborated on. I do feel that Seduce Me is probably one of the best songs I've ever written. And it's on my album, my greatest hits album, album 99, but also, of course, on Celine's legendary 40 million plus selling, Falling Into You. I don't know if I've written a better song than Seduce Me, frankly.

I like to joke that I'm one of the few people fortunate enough to make a really good living based on sexual fantasies that are unrealized. That sounds like a joke, but it's actually true that oftentimes I might be thinking about someone in an amorous way, which never was going to happen. And that would get me to write songs like, for example,

to be with you. That was another platinum cover song. So, um, I would say it's seduced me. It's probably one of the best songs I've ever written. And what are you up to these days? Uh,

I know, you know, I got, I get my updates from my friend, Blair Packham. He's, uh, I got to thank him again though,

because I, I believe in my heart because it's true that we're only talking now because Blair got your ear and he's such a fantastic advocate for this program and he was at my big event, TMLXX at Great Lakes Brewery last Thursday

and he performed live. Fantastic. And Dan, you just let me know when you want to play a TMLX event, okay? I would be honored to. I would love to do that. You just shoot me an email and consider it done. Okay. Now I recorded that, you know,

so, uh, I like that, but, uh, I let us know a little bit about what you're up to these days and, uh, anything you want to share with us before we say goodbye,

you've been very generous with your time and I just love this. Thank you. Well, I have a song that I co-wrote again with Keith Stigall. We co-wrote I Do Cherish You, which obviously was a hit for 98 Degrees and a country hit for Mark Willis. So we have a new song out called She Did with the artist Nolan Sotillo, S-O-T-I-L-L-O, which I think is – I'm really, really excited about that song. I'm going to be recording it shortly.

I'm in the process of making, of putting out new music that I've written. I'm about to tour throughout Asia, Guam, the Philippines, Malaysia. And again, I'm probably banging away on my book about five hours, six hours a day, which will be out. I have a greatest hits album coming out in the spring of 2023, along with this new book. So there's a lot of preparation for the book, obviously. And get ready in 2023 when you get that phone call that the Order of Canada is yours,

because I'm going to make that happen. You deserve it. Well, you know, I don't know what to say other than to say that you're very very kind again my songs are more successful than dan hill the the so-called celebrity the songs will always be the stars so because of that people you know my name is kind of like somewhat beneath the horizon thanks again for this dan you have a friend here in uh southwest toronto and if you need anything you reach out but thanks for your time. This was great, buddy. It just felt like we were hanging out in a living room.

So thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. And that brings us to the end of our 1,109th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Dan can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Dan is at Dan Hill Music. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer.

Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Electronic Products Recycling Association are at EPRA underscore Canada. Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH and Canna Cabana are at Canna Cabana underscore. See you all Wednesday when my guest is Dave Bedini. We are downtown. Read Andrew Miller and wander around. And drink some Guinness from a tin. Because my UI check has just come in.

Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of rosy and green. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the snow won't stay today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and green. Well, you've been under my skin for more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears And I don't know what the future can hold or do For me and you

But I'm a much better man for having known you. Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and green. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow won't speed the day. And your smile is fine, And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is Rosy and green Well I've been told

That there's a sucker born Every day But I wonder who Yeah I wonder who Yeah, I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of green Cause I know that's true Yes, I do

I know it's true, yeah I know it's true How about you? Oh, they're picking up trash And they're putting down roads And they're brokering stocks The class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar

Just the best that I can Maybe I'm not And maybe I am But who gives a damn Because everything is coming up Rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow

Warms me today And your smile is fine It's just like mine And it won't go away Because everything is rosy and green. Well, I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain. And I've kissed you in places I better not name. And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour. Thank you. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms us today

And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now, everything is rosy Yeah, everything is rosy and gray.