Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Darren Dreger: Toronto Mike'd #314

Episode Date: March 16, 2018

Mike chats with TSN's Darren Dreger about his years at Sportsnet and crossing the parking lot to work at TSN.

Welcome to episode 314 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery located here in Etobicoke. Did you know that 99.99% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario? GLB, brewed for you, Ontario. And propertyinthesix.com, Toronto real estate done right. And Paytm, an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot.

Download the app today from paytm.ca. And our newest sponsor, Camp Tournesol, the leading French summer camp provider in Ontario. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is TSN broadcaster Darren Dreger. Welcome Darren. Thanks for having me Mike. Now whereabouts are you coming from? Because here we are in southwest Toronto Whereabouts? You don't have to give me the exact address I don't want the stalkers to show up in your driveway Yeah, too late

I hail from Brooklyn, Ontario which is North Whitby So it wasn't that long of a hike. I mean, we're in non-traffic hours, so probably took me close to 55 minutes, which in my world is three or four phone calls. Okay. Because I'm honored, like the fact that, you know, you came all that way just to be pestered by me for 90 minutes, Like, that means a lot to me. So I appreciate it. All right.

Well, let's make sure it's good. In fact, I'm going to discard a couple of these hardball questions and see if I can replace them with some salt. Ah, fire away, man. Today's episode is 314. Do you remember your primary school math? Do you remember what 3.14 was? Do you remember what that means?

I'll help you out. It's Pi. Thank you. Yes. So this is the Pi episode. So I was thinking, there's two, in my opinion, my opinion, there's two great Pi songs. And I was thinking, Darren Traeger, which of these songs would be like his jam? Which would he prefer? So I'm just going to play a little bit of the songs and you're going to tell me which one you prefer. Pie songs. Here's the obvious one. A classic pie song. Don McLean's American

Pie. Yeah. Terrific. I bet you know all the words to this song. I don't, but it is one of those toe-tappers, right? Whenever you hear it, you're like, I miss that song. Yeah, I would say this song is epic

and it's like a sing-along and when you hear it, you got to join in. So obviously, there's American Pie by Don McLean. What can beat that? Here, let me bring her down.

And here's the other pie song I think about on pie episode. Cherry pie by Warren. So are you Darren Dreger from TSN? Are you an American pie guy or a Warrant cherry pie guy? It would depend on the day, I would say, or time in my life. At this point, I'm an American pie guy.

In my earlier days, yeah, I was closer to the cherry pie version. I thought as much. I actually asked this question on Twitter and someone said, is this the brawl and trigger from back in the day or the current trigger? You know, this jam, I don't know if you frequent peeler bars or strip clubs. I don't either,

of course, but apparently this is a... In my world world that's career limiting trust me isn't that where you guys sign all your contracts not the latest one no that's funny all right so for the record currently darren trager is a don mcclain uh american pie guy yep did you, like, your nickname, did anyone ever call you Double D? Yes. I've had several people over the years call me Double D.

Many, many. Did that, so Double D, I think Double D's a great name for a Darren Dreger, but there's another connotation there. So just like, for the same reason that you don't frequent the strip clubs, is Double D fallen by the wayside in favor of dregs? Is dregs the go-to now?

Dregs has always been there. I mean, that's a sports nickname. I think it's pretty obvious. And I would say yes, the majority of people now would call me dregs. But I will divulge something somewhat personal. I'm ready. So born and raised in Western Canada I was born in Red Deer Alberta spent a few months there my family then relocated to

Saskatchewan where I I grew up and so my great-grandfather was Gustav Dreger and he had curly hair so I was born with straight hair. But by the time I was like 10 or 11, my hair started to get a bit curly. And my grandfather, Archie Dreger, said, you look like Grandpa Gus. So from that point forward, my family started calling me Gus. I love it. And my friends then started calling me Gus. And I'll tell you what, when I go back to Saskatchewan now in the summer, it's probably 60-40 of the people, the friends, the family, etc.

who still call me Gus. Is this a known, like, do people at TSN know the Gus story? Yeah, kind of, sort of. I would say that, again, the Western Canadian media know it because Kelly Buckberger, who's an assistant coach for Doug Waite with the New York Islanders on the Islanders bench. I grew up with good buddies, played together back in the day with Edmonton. I was in Edmonton working in television and radio at the time, 97, 98. And so Billy Guerin knew me as Gus. So it sticks to a degree.

So I would say the TSN people know of it, but it's not a day-to-day thing for them. Because I think if Jay and Dan learned that you were a Gus, I think that's all you'd be referred to as. Oh, guaranteed. Well, I mean, if there's a way they can twist the knife where I'm concerned, they'll find it for sure.

Next time you see him, I don't know if you guys are all getting together for a St. Patrick's Day bash tomorrow, but say thanks to them because I received a Jay and Dan Christmas gift. Wow. It was a TSN toque, a candle, which my 13-year-old daughter loves.

And what else was in there? Just a nice card, but much appreciated. I got on some TSN mailing list there. Wow, good for you because that's more than I've ever received from Jay and Dan. I'll tell you what, there's still a little of that candle left.

Maybe I'll let you take it home. Jay's coming back to kick out the jams, but later in this episode you're not kicking out the jams, but you are kicking out a jam. There's a little teaser for people. We're going to play a song that you love, and we're going to talk about that briefly, but Jay

has threatened to come back and kick out his 10 favorite songs of all time. Nice. That's going to be an eclectic list. I can't wait. Dan, by the way, who I've never met and I'm sure is a lovely man, I can't get him here. You made the drive from Brooklyn. He's unwilling, I think, to make the drive from... Well, you know what?

He's a bit of a recluse. He's got the public persona, so when he's at Raptors games or Leafs games, he's in the role, right? He's playing the shtick. When he's at home with his family, then he's at home with his family. And those two worlds don't often

collide. And that home is very far away from here. Where is it? Peterborough, I think? Yeah, or no, somewhere up there. Like, that's crazy, right? I mean, Brooklyn's kind of crazy, but that's more crazy. You know what? The one thing I admire, though, is he stays

true to his roots, right? And you know, he is a Peterborough guy and, you know, I think born and raised in that area, if not specifically in Peterborough. Well, so true to his roots that he left for America for a while. Yeah, come on. That was chasing the dream and the big money, right?

And, you know, grabbing hold of the coattails of Jay Onright and holding on tight. Hey, I don't judge any of that. I'm just goofing here. I do it all the time with Bob McKenzie. Bob McKenzie has a podcast, The Bobcat Cast. I was on it once, and that was very recently, before the trade deadline. They had insider trading with Pierre Lebrun, myself, and Bobby Mac, and we did 45 minutes or an hour. But I've threatened to create my own podcast.

Well, that's where I'm going here. Okay, because James Duffy has a podcast, the Rubber Boots podcast. Yeah, the Rubber Gloves podcast. That's right. Where is the Darren Drager podcast? Well, there's a backstory to this because Ray Ferraro also participates, what's it called, Pulp Hockey, I believe,

a podcast which is based out of the United States. Ray approached me probably three, four years ago to say, look, this seems to be the new trend. Why don't we do something on a weekly basis? We can incorporate the What's Bugging Ray segment, have some fun, tell some stories, get some news and information out there.

And I pitched it to the powers that be at TSN, and that was kind of pre-TSN podcasting. And they're like, nah, I don't think that's going to fly. Why would we do that? If you guys want to do something, do it on radio. Such visionary. I know.

But this is how fickle I am, Mike. Because of that experience, I've now, look, obviously I'm willing to participate. Otherwise, I wouldn't have driven an hour. I was going to say. I have an hour back to come on your show, which is highly rated, by the way. Thank you. Which is another reason why I'm here to have to drive an hour back to come on your show, which is highly rated, by the way. Thank you.

Which is another reason why I'm here. Thank you. But I'll only participate on occasion. Duffy's had me on the Rubber Gloves podcast twice. Bob has had me on once. And I'm threatening to develop my own podcast purely to critique their podcast. That would be great. Yeah.

Like, that's so meta. Like, your podcast exists to critique other T their podcasts. That'd be great. Yeah. Like, that's so meta. Like, your podcast exists to critique other TSN podcasts. I feel, my perception, as a guy, an independent, if you will, not affiliated with any,

you know, conglomerate cable companies of any sort, who does it in his basement, completely independent, I've seen this glut of, like, of TSN podcasts.

It feels like they're handing out podcasts like candy over there at TSN. It kind of does, doesn't it? It does. That pitch you did that they were unresponsive to and your timing was just off. You make that pitch today, I think they would put you on their shoulders and

run around the office, Darren. Yeah, but I joke with Bob and I joke with James, not all the time, but frequent enough that they're sick of me talking about it. This is a retirement thing for them, right? They're looking at it going, okay, at some point, if we continue to pour our own resource into this, it's going to pay off.

So you can envision Bob at his cottage, which is a stately sort of compound. Have you ever been invited to the McKenzie? I have many times, in fact, and I've been there at least two or three. Beautiful spot, beautiful spot. I won't disclose the location, though, because Bob is going to be...

I called... Who were we just talking about? Jay and Dan a second ago. I called Dan a recluse. Bob McKenzie in the summer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. July 1 is that free agent day. I guess that's his last day until whatever, until fall or whatever.

Yeah, but I mean, the upside of that is, I mean, he's got a new margarita machine. So, you know, he churns out these fancy new recipes of margaritas, gets to a couple of concerts and reads a bunch of books. So that's what he does. That's a good life. That's a good life. Okay, so you're born, you mentioned you're born in Red Deer and you grew up in Saskatchewan. My question is, out West, my perception is that when it comes to Canadians who are bilingual, okay, so English is my first language name, English, but it seems like the more West you go, the less likely it is that you are raised to be fluently French as well.

Do you speak any French? Very little, almost none. And, okay, now you've touched on a sore spot in my world as well. My mom's maiden name is Langele. So she was born and raised in a small community called Gravelburg, Saskatchewan, which is, what would it be, southwest of Regina, Moose Jaw, out that way.

But it is predominantly French. Predominantly French. Oh, wow. In Saskatchewan, which you wouldn't expect. There are several communities in Saskatchewan that are French-based, and throughout the prairies, in fact. But it's been a deep annoyance of mine. So, Dreger obviously isn't a French name.

It's German by descent. And my dad was a beauty. Let's just leave it at that. But he didn't like the idea of his children growing up embracing French culture, which made zero sense. And it's again, it's a sore spot for me at 49, because it's just such a horrendous waste do you have children i do do they speak french they do not now in in fairness uh both took french well you have to take it through grade nine yeah it's like a law exactly and then there's a decision to be made do you go to french immersion or do you not? And they opted not to. My, not to brag, my two older kids are fluently French because of French immersion. So they've

been in French immersion since a senior kindergarten. And I actually think I'll do the same with the younger two. That's my plan anyways. And my wife seems on board. So I have grade nine French like you. And it's like, I'm like a terrible French philosopher, like 2A, LA, Nuzans. Like it's just terrible French philosopher, like 2A, LA, news on. It's just terrible, terrible. But this is what I would recommend to anybody. If you have a child between the ages of 4 and 14, Camp Tournesol. I don't say Tournesol because of my weak French.

I don't say it as well as Nana Muscuri does in this song I'm playing. But Camp Tournesol is the largest French camp in Ontario. And it doesn't matter if you're Francophone or if your child is in French immersion like mine, or if your child has no French immersion, sorry, no French experience. There's a day camp or an overnight experience for them. Campers in all of the Camp Tournesol programs enjoy weeks jam-packed of activities designed to support and enrich French learning in Ontario beyond the school walls. So do this, okay?

And if you use the promo code Mike, so if you go to Camp T, because you're never going to know how to spell tournesol unless you're a francophone, if you go to campt.ca and you use the promo code Mike, you get $20 off your first order. Again, children 4 to 12, there's a French program for you. Do it!

How old are your kids, Darren? My daughter is soon turning 19. She's attending Ryerson University and my son is almost 17. We missed the window to get these kids into the Camp Tournesol French camps. What a shame. Maybe your grandkids will get it maybe I'll pass it on for sure

do it up you have a great impression I got a tweet from someone named Steven who says please let Darren do an elongated Mike Babcock impersonated would you mind is it terrible I'm making a request like this but could you give me a little Mike Babcock

yeah I could probably give you a little, Mike Babcock? Yeah, I could probably give you a little. Elongated might be a bit of a stretch, no pun intended. Hey, you know what? The Toronto Maple Leafs are set to take on the Montreal Canadiens. Now, I just read on that Twitter that Gary Price is back practicing. He's an elite goaltender. Don't think he's going to be good to go against us, which is great for the Leafs.

We've got to get ready. We got to be better than they are. They got good players. We got good players. We played a real good versus Buffalo and let's hope it carries on. That's perfect. That's perfect. It's almost, I love it. It's almost like a macho man were a hoser.

Yeah, it's kind of a bit of a macho man. There's a very beginning. I don't do a good macho, but oh yeah, kind of a bit of a macho man. Because at the very beginning, I thought I'm the macho man. I don't do a good macho, but, oh, yeah, you need a line of cocaine, I think, to do the proper macho man, Randy Savage. That's, Darren, honestly, I would shut it down right now because it's not going to get any better than that. That was good.

Thanks, Stephen, for tipping me off. I could get a nice Mike Babcock here. Are you related to Dave Nones? Yes. Wow. I am, yeah. And that is, again, that's a deep sense of amusement and source of amusement.

A better way to put it for me. Because, again, there's a backstory to this. So my grandmother and Dave's grandfather, brother and sister. So, I mean, that's, you know, what are we, second, third cousins, whatever it is.

Like, is there any wedding or funeral where you'll bump into each other? No, never. But the bizarre thing of this is, I was in my thirties before I knew. Dave was actually the general manager of the Vancouver Canucks at the time. So my mom calls me and says, hey, I hear Dave got the manager's job in Vancouver.

I'm like, Dave who? Well, Dave Nonos. He got the general manager's job in Vancouver. I'm like, how would you know that? Like my mother doesn't. She's a sports fan. She casually watches the NHL. Right, right, right.

She barely knows what I do, let alone who's managing, you know, the Vancouver Canucks. And I said, yeah, well, she, in fact, that's true. I said, but how do you know that? And she's, oh, well, Irene told me that. Okay. I'll bite. Who's Irene? Well, that's Dave's mom. Well, how do you know Dave's mom? And she's like, are you serious? Like, what's wrong with you? And so, obviously, in our family, we had never discussed, you know, the lineage of who knows who,

who's related to who, any of that stuff. And Dave didn't know either. So talk about a dysfunctional family. Well, you know what you've revealed? First of all, now it all makes sense. Like, your mom is the true hockey insider. Yeah, fair enough. Well, she was that day.

Yeah. And that explains your. But look at, and I've said this, not that I have to defend my position, um, because there have been people, um, in the, in the public sector have taken shots at me at numerous occasions over cousin Dave and, you know, Dave is feeding this.

And in fact, there have been those who wrote about the gross conflict of interest between myself and Nona, which is utterly absurd when you, if you spent five minutes, you know, getting to know me or Nona. In fact, I always said Dave was my worst contact and worst source because he just would not tell us anything, which annoyed me because if you're related to someone just by that mere fact, they should want to give you information. In fact, in my experience, often you will overcompensate. So if you believe there's a perceived, even a sliver, a perceived notion of conflict of

interest, you will go out of your way to criticize every damn thing Dave Nones does. You are probably Dave Nones' harshest critic. No, I wasn't, in fact. But I like to feel like I'm generally fair to most, if not all. And at that point, I've gotten to know Dave a bit better just because, you know, he's a hockey executive and has been forever. And I have been doing what I've been doing since the late 80s. So because of the paths that have crossed over the years, we've gotten to know each other, but we're not vacationing together.

Now, I will say this, and this, again, full disclosure here, because I feel like this is the kind of show that you're able to do this. I have had, on occasion, my mom will call and say, look, Auntie So-and-So just passed away. Do you mind reaching out to Dave so he can inform his mom? I've done that probably twice in the last 15 years. I think every hockey fan would be A-OK with that one. I think that's appropriate.

Not all. Some members of the media certainly aren't, but jealousy gets you nowhere. No, we'll get into that because you have a unique perspective on the great sports media war, Canadian sports media war. I don't know if you're a big basketball guy. Do you ever tune into a Raptors game? Rarely, but I do on occasion. So you work for TSN. And I'm sure because of the fact that Jack Armstrong,

I believe he lives in Buffalo, and then he drives to games or something. Hello! Some unique situation. He's probably never been in any TSN office or anything. No, he has. I see Jack infrequently. All right, here's what I need you to do

for me. Two things, because I think Jack is amazing. So I need to figure out, what's his deal with TSN? Can we also, now I hate to bring up the competition, but when I watch a Raptors game on Rogers Sportsnet, it's missing something. What's it missing? Something's missing. Why am I not enjoying this as much as I enjoy the

TSN Raptors games? It's Jack Armstrong. Wow. That's the truth. That's quite a compliment. So you need to figure out what we can do with his contract to get him on all Raptor television games. And secondly is, wouldn't Jack be great doing the TSN Leaf games? Can we get Jack Armstrong on a TSN Leaf game? I'll tell you this much about Jack, and I know Jack well. We've golfed with each other,

and I've known Jack dating back to my Sportsnet days, which is, again, late 90s, early 2000s. He is a knowledgeable hockey fan. He's a very knowledgeable hockey fan. But, you know, as you pointed out, you know, he lives and has raised his family in the Buffalo area. So, you know, he would spend a fair bit of time, I would think, going to games. Yeah. And I just think the more Jack, the better. I think he's fantastic.

Get that garbage out of here. I would love to hear like if Anderson makes a big save or something like a great save, get that garbage out of here. That'd be fantastic. So raps are doing great. There's room on the bandwagon for you, Darren,

if you want to jump on, they're having a fantastic year. They won again last night, but Jack Armstrong won some awards, some Screen Award, well-deserved. I think he's great. I thought maybe if I had an insider, we can get that Jack on the Leaf game. I mean, I can ask him about it.

You can ask him. Not a bad idea. Thank you. I've had worse ideas. Yeah, you have. Or maybe if the Leafs are in Buffalo for a game like they were last night, but there's no Raptor game, conflict or whatever, maybe we can get Jack out there.

That made some sense. And it was a TSN were last night, but there's no Raptor game, conflict or whatever. Maybe we can get Jack out there. That made some sense. And it was a TSN game last night, obviously. Right. That was it. The perfect start. It's a missed opportunity, Mike. Next time. We should have had you in earlier. Do you drink beer? I do. Would you like to take home this six-pack of Great

Lakes beer in front of you? Yeah, why not? What a shocking answer there. Take it home uh it's a variety pack if you will like uh that's a that's for you you're a pompous ass yeah i was just gonna say but the the the character on the can kind of reminds me of james duthie the ears are a dead giveaway yeah and the nose is a little bit duth-ish. I can say that because, you know, James is spending some of his exorbitant salary on yet another holiday.

I don't know where he is. Yeah, he's somewhere in the Caribbean, I think. I will say this, and again, I'm not just saying this because you made the drive from Brooklyn, which is amazing. Brooklyn, New York, what a drive that was. It was a hike, yeah.

I will be honest with you, every TSN personality I've had here, and I've had a lot, are like salt of the earth. Maybe that's the reason they say yes to coming in a guy's basement, but they're salt of the earth good guys. And James Duthie,

one of the nicest guys I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. Well, and I talked to James about your show, about this podcast. Oh, did you? So you're like, should I do this goon show? That's exactly podcast. Oh, did you? So you wanted to say, should I do this Goon show?

That's exactly right. What did he say? Tell me. I'm giving up all the secrets. Well, number one, I wanted to make sure you weren't some sort of freak that I'm driving.

I'm the Wubba Boots guy. Yeah. So he said, no, no, you know, do it. He's a real good guy. It's lots of fun. You'll enjoy it. All good.

Oh, a positive review. Yeah. The reason I got... Who is it? Who did I get? Brian Williams. Brian Williams came on the show because he phoned his good buddy, Dave Hodge, who had been on and said, like, hey, how did it go?

Whatever. And Dave Hodge said, just do it and you can thank me later. That was Dave Hodge. I should get that quote framed and put on the wall. You should, but that smells to me like it was alcohol-induced. And what I mean by that is not Dave was drunk when he said it, that there's six beers sitting right in front of me, so worst thing to happen, Brian,

is you're walking out of there with six quality beers. And more gifts to come later. I'm just going to tease that later I have more gifts. But yes, Great Lakes Brewery, wonderful local craft brewery, fiercely independent, haven't sold out to the big boys, that means. And they're fantastic people.

The owner's been here to kick out the jam. Nice. They're a great guy. So enjoy the six-pack. And let me get some Floyd going here. I like to talk over the Floyd here. When I talk about Pay TM CA pay TM CA is a free online bill payment service that helps manage all of your bills in one place you can pay deep breath utility bills

mobile phone internet gas property taxes education credit cards insurance and rent using your credit card or your bank account. I personally pay all of my bills except my credit card on my credit card because I get points. I get my no, what do you call that? The President's Choice points on my MasterCard. So that's what I do. I just paid my property taxes on my MasterCard thanks to Paytm. So get Paytm from paytm.ca. And when you make your first bill payment, use the promo code. TorontoMike, all one word. And they'll give you $10 in Paytm cash towards your next bill.

They're going to give you $10. I did that. Heck, you should do that, Darren. Because, you know, even though you're making the big bucks at TSN, free money is free money. You don't say no to $10, right? I have teenage kids. They're expensive. You're't say no to 10 bucks. I have teenage kids. They're expensive. You're preaching to the choir. Absolutely. So $10 is yours. And you guys can also thank me later. Darren, how did you break into the broadcast industry in Saskatchewan? Oh, wow. That's a long story. Um, and I won't bore you with all of the details,

but, uh, I mean, I, I, I played hockey, um, you know, up until junior, and then it became abundantly clear that was where it was going to end. And, uh, uh, I was, you know, I wanted to be involved in sports in some capacity and, you know, my background, my background from Saskatchewan is a farming background. So I literally had two options that I could see. One was to stay on the farm, take over the family farm, which I didn't want to do. And thankfully, my parents ended up selling the farm, which was the right idea. The second option was to work at one of the local potash mines. Potash is a huge industry in that part of Saskatchewan. Absolutely.

And you know what? It's a great job. Absolute great job. I've got many friends, family that still work in the potash mine, but nah, that wasn't getting the juices flowing for me. So I was literally driving to Yorkton, Saskatchewan, a small city not far from my

hometown of Langeberg with my mom. We were going shopping, doing whatever. And I turned up the radio. I had applied to the University of Saskatchewan, and I had nothing better to do. So I thought I might as well become a phys ed teacher or do something like that. Got accepted. But I'm listening to the radio, and I hear this WABC, excuse me, just coughed, WABC Broadcast College infomercial.

And it was a fellow by the name of Don Scott and he had a real deep radio voice. And so Darren Detition went to Western Academy, myself, Darren Millard, Mike Toth, I believe. You remember Mike Toth? He's been on the show. Yeah. I mean, there are a number of surprisingly successful broadcasters who went through Western Academy in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. So I did that and then just kind of, you know, work my way up through radio. I started briefly in Yorkton at the radio station there. I moved to Brandon, where ultimately I called Brandon Wheatking's games.

I did play-by-play. I moved into television in Brandon for a short stint, then went to CKY Television, which is now owned by CTV, CTV Winnipeg. Worked there for a handful of years, then jumped to Edmonton for one year, 1997-98. And then Scott Moore, who's now a big shot at Rogers Sportsnet, was a big shot then with CTV Sportsnet. And he called me, well, in fact, the Oilers were playing the Dallas Stars in the 1998 Stanley

Cup playoffs. And I get called into the trainer's room, somehow, someway, Moore got a number, called me on there. I mean, I didn't even have a cell phone back then, right? And I'll never forget this. I go into the trainer's room.

In fact, I thought it was being punked by the team. Right, right, right. So I go into the trainer's room and I fact, I thought it was being punked by the team. Right, right, right. So I go into the trainer's room and I answer the phone. And Scott Moore says, Darren Dreger? Scott Moore? Why have I never heard of you before? That was his first introductory line to me.

And Don Metz, who is still involved with the Edmonton Oilers in a capacity. You know, Don Metz has done Boys of the Bus. He's one of the main producers of all Edmonton Oiler historical television, radio, all of those things. He and Scott were good friends. So Don Metz had sent a video resume on my behalf. I was hosting Oilers games and doing local sports in Edmonton. I was hosting Oilers games and doing local sports in Edmonton. And this resume ended up on Scott Moore's desk.

And he said, why have I never heard of you before? And probably about a month later, he flew me and my lovely bride to Toronto, wined and dined us, and hired us on the spot. Made you an offer you couldn't refuse. Pretty much. And that's another side funny story, and I'll on the spot. Made you an offer you couldn't refuse. Pretty much. And that's another side funny story, and I'll tell it quickly. I don't remember what I was making back in Edmonton at the time.

It wasn't a lot. Well, I have your T4 right here. Let me tell you. I mean, all in, it was probably around $45,000, $50,000, which, again, back then, wasn't terrible. I remember back then. That's not bad. Nothing to sneeze at.

And my boss at the time uh jim haskins is his name i mean he's desperately trying to hold the pieces of this fresh new launch operation was hl edmonton together and he's like you know he's an ontario boy and he's like look you know dregs you know and i more was offering me a six-figure salary so at the very least doubling my salary. And Haskins kept saying to me, that's not enough money. You can't live in Toronto for that. I'm like, nah, I don't think so, buddy.

So anyway. You can live in Toronto now with that. Of course. I mean, it was ridiculous, but he was just trying to talk me out of doing something that he didn't want me to do. But Gene Prince-Bate, who you will recall, is now in Edmonton. He took my job.

So he worked in Toronto and then went to Winnipeg. I called him and I said, look, Gino, there's an opportunity here. I'm leaving to go to Toronto. Are you interested? And I knew he wanted to get back west. And anyway, small world. And so it works out for everybody.

And this is like 1998 when you're seduced by Sportsnet. I was. Real quick, I have a clip I'm going to play in a moment. But you mentioned Mike Toth. So it reminded me, I need to ask you, have you had any correspondence with Mike in the past like six to 12 months? Not correspondence, but I believe I've had conversations with Mike.

Oh, that's course. That's what I mean. Any like engagement? No, like I think I saw him at a Leaf game last year and then we bumped into each other at a minor hockey tournament. Because he's on the show and we had a great conversation. He was very honest about some things he did regret and some things

he didn't and he opened up about some mental health issues and stuff. And then we actually had what I call an email relationship. We'd periodically write each other different things. And then all of a sudden, I would say about six months ago, and I'll make sure I only say things fit for public consumption, but he stopped replying. So I wrote him, he stopped replying. I noticed he deleted his Twitter feed.

And then he was doing a podcast with Jim Lang, I believe. And they were doing something about fatherhood, I think. So essentially, I am just hoping to find out that Mike's okay, actually. And I wish I could tell you that he is. I haven't spoken to him recently, and you said six to 12 months. It's probably a minimum of 12 months. But look, if Mike is dealing with some issues, I certainly want to wish him all of the best. I can say this with 100% confidence.

I've never been impressed more with two individuals and their level of creativity. One is James Duthie. I mean, this man is genius. He really truly truly is. And the ideas that he comes up with, the things that I've been fortunate enough to work on with him, some of the quirkier humorous projects and songs. Well, the one I remember is Zach Galifianakis' movie. Yeah, The Hangover. Yes. I mean, spectacular.

And Mike Toth is the other. I worked extensively with Mike during the days at Sportsnet, and I loved his quirkiness. He kept everyone on the edge of the seat of your chair, both good and bad. You never knew what was going to happen, and usually it was good. Usually it was good.

Usually it was good. I always appreciated him at the time as well because he was sort of zany and irreverent. And he was a bit of a, Jay Onwright's a bit of that, but it's almost like- Very similar. Yes.

And it's just, to me, it's funny. It strikes my funny bone. And you're right. When you are that way and unpredictable, it's like a double-edged sword. Like that's where you get the creative genius, but you're also going to get some, I don't want to call baggage,

but you're going to get some stuff maybe that's less desirable. It seems to come naturally in those men. Maybe it doesn't in all of them. And maybe it's really, really hard to do that on a day in and day out basis. Yeah, you might be onto something. There's a sort of a, not a trope, but a theme between sort of creative genius,

like a Robin Williams or something like that, where it's almost like this manic creativity that's often got a other side of the coin, if you will. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. But you're now in, you're now at Sportsnet. I'm going to play a little clip. This is sent to me via Twitter by a guy named Robert Carnell. He says, let's hear some early dregger on Sportsnet.

So here's a little, just a little taste of you doing a, what's this called? The Bat NHL Game Night on Sportsnet. So here we go. Do I have it? Yes, I do. Here's Darren Draeger to talk about that. All right, Jim, thanks very much. We'll also have a special guest joining us after one and after two. Of course, that is the boss of Team Canada's Olympic team. That is Wayne Gretzky. Look forward to that.

In studio, Nick Kiprios and Scott Morrison. And Nick, I believe the challenge goes to you first. How do you get through an entire evening on NHL game night without arguing with John? I don't know. I'm looking to Vinny the camera guy right now. He's my best bet. Now you'll have a chance because John will join us after one and again after two from the Saddledome.

Let's get the news out first. Colorado will take on the Vancouver Canucks tomorrow. That is a Sportsnet Pacific game. Scott, Rob Blake isn't on this trip as they make the tour west. Why not? Back-to-back games will be in Calgary on Saturday night. He's suffering from what is believed to be a groin injury. So that is a...

Well, he's talking about the Salt Lake City Olympics, I think. Yeah. So it's got to be like... Yeah. 0-1 maybe. Yeah, 0-1, 0-2. That's like February 0-2 is when, yeah, they win gold. So that's you to be like, yeah, 0-1 maybe. Yeah, 0-1, 0-2. That's like February 0-2 is when, yeah, they win gold. But so that's you on Sportsnet.

You were at Sportsnet from 1998 to 2006. Correct. I believe. Yeah, had some good times there. So you're in a unique, now I often pontificate. Shocking. Okay, here's, yes. You got your Sportsnet, kind of second man in.

You got TSN, established brand, if you will, for sports media. And then Sportsnet starts up. And, of course, you're struggling against the heritage. We see some of this with the TSN radio going up against, like, the fan that's been there forever. And it's tough to be second guy in. And you got Sportsnet. You do something we rarely see. I never see it, which is you, let's call it cross the parking lot.

So you join, you leave Sportsnet for TSN. Yeah. Like that doesn't happen very often. No, it doesn't. And there was, there was reason for it, obviously. And it, it, it didn't have anything to do with the money. Again, going back to those days, there was turmoil at, at Sportsnet. We just heard Scott Morrison speak and, you know, he's turmoil at Sportsnet. We just heard Scott Morrison speak, and he's still with Sportsnet.

Good for him. He tells terrific stories and does great essays, and he's a good friend of mine. But he was in management at the time, and I loved working for Scott. We were like-minded in terms of philosophically how we thought shows could and should be put together. Let's lead with the information and put the bells and the whistles, the sizzle of the steak, if you will. Let's put the steak first. And there was another gentleman by the name of Jeff McDonald, who in fact now is the program director for TSN 1050. So they were kind of, Scott was in charge of the hockey department.

And, well, he was in charge of the hockey department and what's it called now? Hockey Central, Sports Central, whatever the news arm of Sportsnet was then and is now. Scott oversaw all of that. And Jeff primarily was in charge of hockey and other elements specific to the newsroom. Anyway, upper management came in and just decided that, nah, you know what, we don't really like doing things this way. We're a little too old school, so we're going to spice this up, and we're going to shake the tree and change some things.

And unfortunately, their change started with firing Scott Morrison. Now, I had been in conversations with TSN and had turned down the opportunity to go to TSN because in my heart, I could not leave Scott in a lurch, if you will. Well, you had some loyalty to Scott. Yeah, I did. I did. I did. And I was very honest with both Bob McKenzie and Mark Moliere, the boss at TSN at the time.

But Scott hadn't been fired when I turned them down. Now we're drifting into the off season and I get a call from Scott just saying, hey, just letting you know, I've been called to a downtown hotel by Human Resources, which is never a good thing. And inevitably, he was let go. I was devastated. I was angry. I was a lot of things. But one thing I wasn't was willing to continue to fight the good fight for a company that clearly didn't believe

in the same things that I did at the time. So pretty soon, you know, within hours, literally, the news filtered out that Morrison had been let go. And, you know, TSN, thankfully, circled back. And Mark Miliaro remembered the call until the day I died. He first wanted to know, geez, what happened to Scott Morrison? I mean, here's, again, a highly respected, award-winning journalist being let go. Like, what possibly could have happened? So we had that conversation, and he said,

all right, well, does this change your mind? Right. Are you more willing now to consider an opportunity? And in fairness to Mark Miliere, he said, because I'm not going to ask again. Uh, and I didn't need any time whatsoever. I, I, I was playing in a golf tournament with, uh, the likes of Joe Bowen and, uh, Wilbur, Bill Waters. Yeah. Bill Waters. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Jim Ralph, I mean, go down the, go down the list of all of those guys. I think it was a Rick Fraser, by the way, the Memorial Tournament.

Anyway, and I found out on that golf course. And literally by the time I got home later that night, had a quick conversation with my wife. We decided that at the very least I would meet with Mark the next morning. We did. And essentially got that deal hammered out in short order. It's nice to have options, isn't it? Yeah, I was very fortunate. And you're right, but without Bob McKenzie, and not just in my world,

without Bob McKenzie, there's no option. Because that's the other thing that's unique about this story, Mike, is we heard the clip of me back in the day with Sportsnet 2001, 2002, whenever it was. I was a host, right? That's what I was. But very quickly, I kind of morphed into a hybrid version of a host slash insider based on some of the previous relationships that I had made in covering junior hockey. Well, related to Dave Nones helps. Yeah, yeah.

That's sort of. But the funny thing is, like Kevin Sheveldayoff now, who's general manager of the Winnipeg Jets, was the captain of the brand in Wheat Kings when I was doing play-by-play, right? Small world, man. And I'm not, I'm very public in acknowledging that, you know, Chevy and I are friends,

but he understands the line and so do I. But without Bob, who knows what happens? I probably have no choice but to suck it up and stay in doing what I was doing because I had a great job. And as far as I know, they weren't looking to fire me, although people above me got fired. So maybe I was next on the hatchet block. But Bob created this appetite and this world where the information needed to be dispensed. And he was working around the clock at TSN. And I think he got to a point with TSN where he said, I'm not doing it anymore. You know, I can't burn it at both ends of the candle here. And he provided a list of individuals that he thought, you know, would be a good fit.

And I was lucky enough to be high on that list. Well, first of all, when Scott Morrison gets the call from HR to meet him at a hotel, in the history of broadcasting, has that ever been a good thing? Like, HR, hey, come meet us at this hotel at this time because we want to give you an award or a raise. No, right? Never. That almost never, ever, ever, ever happens.

And in fact, not to bring it back into my world, but when we lost the national rights a few years ago, James, Bob, and I got summoned to a hotel in Ottawa by Stu Johnson and Marc Millier and the brass of Bell, CTV, and TSN. And I mean, we knew we weren't getting let go, but it might be the rare occasion in this industry where we didn't go in there and come out unemployed.

In fact, we went in there and were happily furnished with long-term contracts. Yeah, they both told that story. We'll get there. But I call it crossing the parking lot, obviously. But this is me speculating. So pure Mike speculation here is that it almost feels, because we have all these personalities at TSN and Sportsnet,

and this situation that happened with you, I don't know if it's happened since, to be quite honest. I'm not sure. I can't remember if it's happened since. But that's a long time ago yeah so i always speculated if there was some kind of unwritten uh i hate to use the word collusion it sounds so legal or whatever but some it just doesn't make sense like for example for example me speculating again uh let's say fan 590 is beating up on 1050 tsn 1050 in the radio ratings or something, it would make sense.

I would think you would poach, if you will, a known brand person from, you know what I'm saying, from Brand 590 and bring them over to 1050, but that never happens. No, it doesn't, and it's curious. You know, sometimes optics have something

to do with that. You know, you don't want to look like, even though you may be inferior in the ratings, you don't want to look like you're giving up the fight and you're grabbing a known personality because he's a, uh, he or she are a proven commodity. No, no. You want to show the world that you've, you've developed your own talent. It's just more a matter of time and, and market and market exposure and all of those things. And the flip side to that too, frankly, Mike, is the economy, the finances of it. I think that there are a fortunate few, and I mean few, in sports radio that have the kind of swagger in today's sports radio game to command that type of attention. Oh, you mean Bob McCowan. Yeah, and in fairness,

and there are some great broadcasters, don't get me wrong. You know, I think of Mike Richards as an example who's got a podcast, and I used to do the show with Mike when he was a star, frankly, in Calgary radio. Yeah, that was also called The Fan, right? Yeah.

The Fan, whatever, whatever, you know better than me. You know, whatever, five, whatever, whatever. You know better than me. You know, you go down the list of some of those guys who just for whatever reason either didn't connect in the Toronto market or whatever. Contractually, things didn't go the way they wanted, all those things. And I don't bring Mike up for that reason. No, but I'm glad you brought him up because I'm a big, big Mike Richards fan because he shoots from the hip.

This guy doesn't hold back. He's been here a couple times. He's coming back to kick out the jams, actually. But his episodes are always like, first of all, he'll crack open the beer at like 9 a.m. because he had been doing the morning show, so he told me his 9 a.m. was like my afternoon. That made good sense to me. But he's just going to

be straight up with you and tell it like it is, and I find that awfully refreshing. Well, and look, the radio world is a real, real tough one. You know, longevity does mean something. You know, I would say that, you know, both the Fan 590 and TSN 1050 and the chain of TSN stations are very fortunate in the talent level that exists. But try and win that ratings war.

You know, it goes beyond good content, storytelling and debate, right? A lot of it has to be just routine and appointment listening. When you get in the car, you know, and, you know, you're driving 55 minutes to do a show or go to one of your children's events, chances are just by habit, you're either listening to music, you're listening to a podcast that you've downloaded, or you're going to a show that you're familiar with because that's what you always do.

And that's a tough animal to beat. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. In fact, I remember when the Team 1050, you remember the Team 1050? Yeah. When they poached. So Paul Romanuk, who's been on the show,

Jim Van Horn, like some big names that were... And those guys got big money, I think, to go over at the time. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And that one called the Experiment, the Team 1050 Experiment was like 18 months and then they pulled

the plug uh much the chagrin of these guys who who left you know good jobs at tsn for the for the gig uh so that's an example though of you know them trying to poach to get the brand names that i i noticed 1050 the new one the well not new anymore i guess but the tsn one is less likely to do but there i just was curious why we don't see more guys crossing the parking lot. Yeah. So you're a unicorn of sorts. Yeah, it's a good question.

It happens probably more often with analysts than anything. Former hockey players whose contracts either run out with one organization and they're free agents. So there's opportunity at TSN or back at Sportsnet and they'll jump back in the line. But it doesn't happen very often with hosts or insiders. So you mentioned that you were summoned to the hotel in Ottawa for a good reason, which is also a unicorn. But you were summoned because, of course,

Rodgers signed a $3 trillion deal. Obviously, not quite $3 trillion, but a mega deal for a 12-year deal with the NHL for exclusive rights and a bunch of NHL stuff, including all the playoffs. So when that happened, was there, before you got this long-term contract from TSN, was there a moment of regret at all or any

consideration like maybe like eek i came to tsn because i had all this hockey and now we have very little hockey should i maybe i should go back like was there any thoughts of that uh yeah i'd be lying if i said no of course there is a you know uh the the the platform that you know we were motivated by was you know the national platform and not only doing regular season games, but being on the road and having the Stanley Cup playoffs and being a big deal as part of the draft lottery and the draft and go down the list of all the wonderful things that happen on an annual basis with the NHL.

I mean, that was the fun, right? That was why we did it in some respects. But in saying that, yeah, there was some anger, not directed at Bell, CTV, or TSN, but directed at the National Hockey League for not showing loyalty to Bell and TSN. The money in the package offered was essentially the same. Now, I wasn't in any in the package offered was essentially the same. Now, I wasn't in any of the negotiations, nor should I be. I mean, that's a high grade than mine. Yeah, no question about that. But, you know, the rumor since then has been that, well, this guy didn't like that guy,

and this guy didn't like this person, and blah, blah, blah. You know, and the decision was made to shift gears. And the National Hockey League and its owners, that was their prerogative. They could do that, and that's what they did. So I think, you know, Bob, myself, James, you know, many of those directly impacted by this were frustrated slash angry at the National Hockey League for jumping ship

in the fashion that they did. But then that subsides over time because, you know, the one thing that remained was the synergy and the loyalty to one another. And I don't know if I should tell this story or not, but I guess- Of course, you're on show and I'm like, no one's listening. Just me and you here. Yeah. You know, it seems pretty obvious, but I'll confirm it. Confirmed! You know, Bob, James, and I had a pact.

One guy wasn't leaving unless all three were going. And truthfully, Sportsnet, either a mistake on their part or not, didn't really pursue either, they didn't pursue any of us, which was mind-boggling to me, not selfishly, but if I were creating a national hockey package, which includes the draft and all of those things, man, I would have absolutely had to have had James Duthie and Bob McKenzie.

Duthie is the most creative, talented host in the business. Um, and, and there's some real, real good ones. No question about that. And then Bob McKenzie is Bob McKenzie. I mean, there's the TSN brand and there's the Bob McKenzie brand. Um, and so when the three of us decided that we weren't going anywhere unless we were going together, then it became pretty simple. I, I, I, I, again, I'll never forget the feeling that I had when we essentially shook hands, uh, and that was just relief, you know, that, all right, well, I'm in good hands here because I'm going to continue to be part of a world-class broadcast, regardless of its regional.

We're going to continue to kick ass as we have ever since on the big days, the days that matter, like Trade Deadline Day, Free Agent Frenzy Day, July 1st. And we're going to have fun doing it. And I haven't had a moment of regret since. This is a perfect time for me to give you another gift. Woohoo! That pint glass. So you got your Great Lakes beer. You're going to need to pour that beer into a pint glass.

That's all yours. That's courtesy of Brian Gerstein. He's with propertyinthesix.com. He's a broker of PSR Brokerage. He's recorded a short little message for you, Darren, that actually has a question at the end of it that ties in perfectly with where you're going right now. So this is like, it's almost like we drew this on the board. Look at us professionals at work here. So let's hear from Brian.

Hi Darren, Brian Gerstein here, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Mikes. Hope you enjoy my pint glass. No Gino Retta mustache on it though, you will just have to manage. I also have a limited supply left over exclusively for Toronto Mike's listeners. In order to receive one of my pint glasses, just give me a call at 416-873-0292 to meet and discuss any real estate needs you have as we enter the busiest time of year with the spring market arriving. Darren, I'm still amazed at how TSN held on to its staff

even with losing national broadcast rights for 12 years, though holding regional ones. In my opinion, TSN is the gold standard for hockey coverage, and Sportsnet, no matter what they have tried, is always the kid brother for coverage, even with national rights. So what is it that makes TSN the gold standard for hockey coverage, no matter what obstacles are in their way. See how perfectly timed this is? Really nice. Thank you, Brian. I appreciate that.

And I'll put the pineclaws to good use. So Brian's point, which we were just touching on, and you mentioned the magic day that I always look at. So trade deadline day. Trade deadline day is that one day where you're on equal footing, right? Because that's about insiders and who gets what first. And where do Canadians go to watch their trade deadline coverage? And the evidence, all the evidence says that Canadians are more likely to choose TSN for their trade deadline

coverage than Sportsnet. Is that like, you've been very nice because you're a humble guy. You've been very nice that it's the, it is the Bob mckenzie james duffy difference but you guys and that pact you signed and i i wanted to comment did you get the idea for that pact from friends right this is what they did on friends the six main guys have friends they said it's all you deal we all get the same we all go in and it really it's really a smart negotiation tool so i just wondered if you bum that off at friends but tell me what like how is it that even though Rogers Sportsnet spent all this money on all these properties on trade deadline day, you guys will inevitably be the winner? Yeah, I mean, I think there are a lot of factors. You know, the information we provide is number one.

And maybe, maybe we manage that day and how we prepare for that day differently than anyone else. And how we do it is with synergy. You know, Bob, Pierre Lebrun, and myself work very, very closely hour by hour, and in certain cases, minute by minute. And on that day, it doesn't matter who's tweeting the information out. It doesn't matter who's delivering the breaking news on air. If I have something often, you know, they'll come to Gord Miller. Gord Miller will say, and Darren, you know, Ryan McDonough has been traded. And I'll say, yes, Ryan McDonough has been traded from the New York Rangers to the Tampa Bay Lightning. You know, it's a multi-piece deal.

We're still working on some of the elements. But while I'm doing that, either Bob or Pierre will have tweeted out what we've group collected. And you know what? I think that's somewhat unique because, look, there's individual gratification. At the end of the day, everybody wants to be the guy to break the big trade, the big signing, the hiring, the firing, all of that.

But what we have learned and have always, you know, embraced is we're better together. We're better as a team. And so, you know, push ego aside, let's just kick ass. And I honestly, I think that that is truly the secret to our success in delivering the information. But furthermore, again, I should get paid by James Duthie for speaking as highly of him as I continue to here. But his creativity sells that day as well. Because who's getting who? I mean, the trades are few and far between, right? Now it seems

like the big ones are happening before the deadline. So if you don't have a real good balance of humor, of fun, shenanigans, all of that, mixed in with the ability to snap your fingers and get into serious mode instantly,

then you're not going to be as good as James Duthie and that main panel. And, you know, then it goes furthermore to, and this is the one thing that I noticed. And again, I've got the unique perspective of being on both sides. And, you know, earlier in the show,

I shared why I left Sportsnet. And I can tell you that during my time at Sportsnet, it didn't feel like we were always on the same page. And I mean from top to bottom, from the entry-level editorial assistant who's working on the newsroom floor to the president of the company. Somebody always had a different idea and rather than embrace an idea for the greater good and everybody just focus on that idea because everybody believes that's what's really going to drive the ship you know there'd be there'd be dissections and there'd be a group that wants to do this and a group and and sounds like silos as opposed to like a true collaboration you end up fighting yourself and then ultimately

you know bad blood is there and all of those things. Well, that was one of the first things that I, I recognized when I got to TSN was no, no, no, that's, that's not a we function. You know, the, the president of the company is on board with mid-management, on board with lower level management, on board with talent, on board with the entry-level employees, and everybody is pulling in the same direction. And, you know, for the most part, that continues to be the case now. So when you've got that support and leadership and guidance at the top, then the foot soldiers, and that's what I am, like, that's what I am. You know, it's easy for me to attack my day on a daily basis, knowing that I don't have to worry about all the other nonsense going on above my head.

And that's how we approach trade deadline. That's how we approach those individual days where TSN can prove that, as Brian said a few minutes ago, that we're the gold standard. And to quote Nick Kiprios, you knew you were being successful when you were acknowledged as one of those fuckers at TSN. I still bug Nick about that on occasion. And, uh, you know, Nick and I remain very good friends. I I'll tell you, Mike, I couldn't be more proud of, uh, how Nick Kiprios has developed over time. You know, he too was an entry-level guy, 1998, one of the first into the door with me. Um, and to, you know, go from being a professional athlete to now having to work five, six, seven days a week, he wasn't used to that. He wasn't ready for that. And he had to learn how to manage his day.

And he had to learn how to be critical but be able to articulate that criticism without hammering somebody squarely over the head. And then be confident enough that when he felt strongly about something to hold firm and be critical because that's what you see and trust your history in the sport to go with your instincts. And so now when I watch Nick, um, on a regular basis on Saturday nights, uh, I'm always impressed with the stuff that, that he pulls out of there. So, you know, uh, we, we do joke about that. We've had some laughs over time and, you know, he deserves credit for, for being a loyal guy too, right? I mean, he could have

jumped ship. He could have. I did. He didn't. And there's lots of reasons for that. But, you know, he should take a great deal of pride for being in there from day one. Well, he's learned a lot. He's come a long way. He just needed to learn how to properly DM on Twitter.

I think that was the one lesson he needed to learn. But it is, by the way, it could have been far worse. And I actually think it's one of my favorite, like, Canadian sports media Twitter moments. And he didn't back down. It's not like he said, I don't know what happened. I didn't say that. Obviously, he didn't mean to tweet it.

He was trying to direct message her. It's right up there with Jose Batista tweeting at Simmons, who are you? I'll tell you, I've got a similar personal story, not to derail the podcast here. No, go nuts.

I love personal stories. So I'm covering the Winnipeg Jets and the Anaheim Ducks round one of the Stanley Cup playoffs a few years back. My son, who still is a AAA hockey player, was in the midst of spring tryouts in Whitby. And there was some feuding, as there often is, between coaches and parents. And I probably wasn't the easiest parent to deal with. Shocking, I know, Mike.

But the coach at the time had let it be known to me that my kid was on the bubble. And that was surprising to me because he had had a pretty good year the year before. And so I was sending a text to my wife and I was saying some not very flattering things about this coach, including a word, which I use the C word in this text, you know, and said, if that, you know, what cuts our son, you know, here's what you have to do to get his release you know because there's a paperwork issue that has to be observed and you got to do it the night of blah

blah blah well i hit send and automatically i'm like yeah something didn't feel right about that but i was having a side text messaging uh messaging conversation with this coach, learning that my kid is at best on the bubble, I sent that text to the coach instead of my wife. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, my God. And I actually have a, so I'll have a, sorry, texting we're talking, not Twitter.

I'm pretty good at Twitter, but texting, I'll be texting. But when somebody texts you, it pops up. So it pops up on the phone. Yeah. And then I, so I have this thing where I think I'm replying to the one I was just in, but I'm actually replying to the one that just came in and I don't realize it sort of transfixed. And I've been fooled on this. So I now just, any text I say, I just assume this text is going to be published somewhere.

Like, just make sure I don't use, you know, call someone to see we're in a text message. Nah, not one of my finer moments. In fairness to this guy, I'll give him credit. He quickly acknowledged and said, wow, that's quite a text. And then afterward, we shared kind of a chuckle because my son ended up making the team.

Oh, good. Bygones, as they say. Now, we used to have Gemini Awards in this country. I know they've consolidated the Genies and the Geminis and it's Canadian Screen Awards. I know Jack Armstrong just won one. But you've won, well tell me, you've won at least one Gemini Award. Yeah, I've won

one, yeah. And so that was in 2010 for Best Sports Reporting for your coverage of the firing of NHLPA Executive Director Paul Kelly. Where is that Gemini today? In fact, it's on a shelf in my office, believe it or not. Yeah, very proud of it. You know, a small kid from Saskatchewan, you know,

going up against some of the big shots of the industry. And frankly, I mean, everyone who wins, you know, an award like that is deserving of it, no question of that. I put in some heavy lifting to earn that award. That was Twitter in its infancy, Mike. So this went down to the Drake Hotel in Chicago, and I had written a story on the website, on tsn.ca, probably around June, July, just suggesting that, look,

there's a lot of upheaval going on right now in the Players Association. And as crazy as it sounds, they've just hired Paul Kelly not long ago. There's a chance that this guy gets removed in the not-too-distant future. So I knew at those player meetings in Chicago that there was the potential of that.

So I convinced TSN to send me and cameraman Ned. He had a soft spot for Ned. He hung in there. So, you know, I did play by play of everything that was going on in the hallways of the Drake Hotel. I mean, the little clique groups that would come out of this meeting and three or four players and an executive would talk and then this guy would talk to somebody else. And then you had Glenn Healy and Paul Kelly and that group of, of, uh, outgoing executives sitting in a corner over there. I mean, the whole thing was fascinating. Um, and I, I quite literally

did play by play, uh, of that, uh, of that turn of events on Twitter and filed reports with cameraman Ned. So, uh, yeah, that one was, uh, was well-earned because we literally didn't shut down till about 4am that morning. And I remember Paul Kelly coming out of that boardroom, just sour with his briefcase.

And, you know, it was clear at that point that he had been ousted. Well, it's no longer called the Gemini's, but you could win another award. I think you could win another award, I think. You could win another Canadian Screen Award for your feature on Paul Ranger, because it

was very good. Yeah. So tell me how that came about. Just tell me a little bit about that feature. Yeah, well, look, you know, the mystery of Paul Ranger has been there for quite some time. I know I tried to pursue that story when Paul left in 2009, 2010. I tried to pursue that story when Paul left in 2009, 2010.

And, you know, his agent, Joe Resnick, was always very respectful of Paul. And, you know, I know Joe well. You know, he would just politely decline to comment and just say, ah, you know what, we're just not going to get into it. Paul's not ready to return yet. And as we know, I mean, he surfaced eventually with the Toronto Marlies and then ultimately played again with the Toronto Maple Leafs before shutting it down. And that was literally the last that I'd come across Paul Ranger. And then I want to say probably in November, I got a call from Joe Resnick, the agent, and said, look, Paul is at a place in his life where he wants to talk about what he went through, what he continues to struggle with. And the reason he

wants to do it now is because he's confident enough to tell his story because he feels like his story is going to help others. Are you interested in taking on this project? And instantly I said, of course, of course I do. But, you know, Paul is a very, very smart man. And, you know, he has to trust the people that he's working with, you know, before he gets deeply involved. And that's what was required here. So Paul and I met at least twice. And then a third time with the Josh Scheinman, who's a head of our producer's department, which is world-class, frankly, second to none, in my opinion.

And Josh openly talked about, you know, his struggles with with mental illness and depression, those things and struck a nerve with Paul. And at that point, Paul decided he was willing to move forward. And look, you know, it was, we had some difficult conversations because, you know, we weren't looking for the guts and the glory. We were looking for brutal honesty. And, you know, Paul got emotional in having these conversations just at Starbucks. And so it was clear, it, it was clear to us

that he was willing to take us deep into his world. Uh, and that was very, very important. So the success of, of the storytelling has a lot to do with the bravery, the courage that Paul Ranger showed in telling his story in real heartfelt fashion, you know, for his dad and his family, his fiance investing and in telling their, their story and their experience and Paul's experience and what they've saw firsthand, you know, Rick Talkett, who, you know, just lost his mom, um, to cancer in the last few days, uh, without honestly, and I, you know I you know I I've had so many conversations with Paul Ranger about this if not for Rick Talkett and how he dealt with Paul in that one specific game where the wheels came right off Paul Ranger probably isn't alive that's just the brutal

honesty of it all so for Rick to acknowledge I mean, there were so many elements to this. And then to have the resources of TSN and the production department and Matt Dorman, who was the primary producer on this story, who's won I don't know how many Canadian Screen Awards. He just won another one. I mean, these guys are just world-class. So the story kind of told itself, but for me it begins and it ends

with Paul Ranger showing the courage that he did to tell his story as brutally honest as he did. It's fabulous. And Mike, just to quickly add to it, and I appreciate you bringing it up because it's one, I don't care if it wins anything. That doesn't matter. The reward has come in the feedback that I receive on a day-by-day basis.

And I can't divulge names for confidentiality reasons, obviously. who have reached out to me with very personal reasons, either their own individual struggles or their children or their grandchildren who are struggling, who, you know, saw the piece and went to mom and dad and said, I just, I didn't think that I could, I could say anything. I, you know, I don't want to, I didn't want to be perceived as being weak, but a lot of what Paul is saying here, I feel. Like, that's the victory in all of this. And that's why Paul Ranger continues to speak to kids. He doesn't need to stand in front of an audience of a thousand people to tell his story over and over again. You saw it in the piece when he stood in front of that dressing room of players at the University of Ontario with the Ridgebacks.

I mean, those are the young men and women that it hits home with, and that was exactly the goal that he wanted to achieve. So regardless of where this takes us, I couldn't be happier with the outcome and the people we touched. I urge people, if you have not seen this feature on Paul Ranger that Darren Dreger was part of putting together, please seek it out. Just Google it. You'll find it right away and watch it because it's very good. And I think part of why it's so good is what we're all craving, I think, which is like authenticity. I call it real talk here. I'll use hashtag real talk. This

whole show is here. You're not reading from some PR script or talking points or whatever. We're having a heart-to-heart here. I call it Real Talk. And I think people can smell authenticity and appreciate it and are craving it. So I think it works. Yeah, I hope so. I mean, the day-to-day stuff we do

often gets lost in a soundbite or what's the Leafs content of the day? Is Freddie Anderson going to be okay? And of course that matters. I mean, that's a lot of what I do on a day-by-day basis. But when you have the opportunity to participate and contribute to projects like this that are meaningful, that's what really makes my job worth doing. A gentleman on Twitter named, his handle is WoodStaley93. Now, I'm a big Alice in Chains fan, so I know that Wood is a big Alice in Chains song. Staley is Lane Staley, and 93 must be just a year when, I don't know, he was listening to Alice in Chains?

I don't know. Or he's a Nugent Hopkins fan. Right. Maybe one or the other. Or I'd go with Dougie G if he's listening to Alice in Chains. But WoodsDaily93 says, before TSN radio launched, I remember Darren, while at TSN Sports, used to do radio hits for the former AM640. My question is this, Darren, what was it like working at that station compared to TSN radio? Any difference? And he just says he'll be tuning into Toronto Mike as always via iTunes. Darren, what was it like working at that station compared to TSN Radio?

Any difference? And he just says he'll be tuning in to Toronto Mic as always via iTunes. So thank you, Woodstaley93. And you want to share any thoughts on AM640? Was that with Wilbur? That was with Wilbur, yeah, Bill Waters and I. I had a great time working on that show. It was called Leafs lunch at the time which uh i guess has been pirated by tsn 1050 and andy petrello who hosts that show um the the weird

part of of doing that show with am640 both bill waters and i had individual broadcast lines so i was doing it from my basement in Brooklyn, Ontario. And more often than not, he was at his cottage in Aurelia, and he was doing it from there. So we didn't have any eye-to-eye contact. Interesting. And we'd have to relay stuff through the producer. And we had a couple of interesting producers.

Brian Hayes, who's the host of Overdrive. His dad's been on this show, actually. You know, Brian and I, on occasion, will joke, I mean, I used to just give it to him on occasion. Like, Brian, what are you doing? Why didn't we do this, this, this, and that? Josh Rimmer is another one. He produced that show.

But no, I mean, Wilbur and I had lots of fun. And, you know, the AM640 people just stayed out of our way. I mean, it was good Leafs content and good debate and good opinion. Help me remind me. I remember Greg Brady co-hosting Leafs Lunch. And I remember Jeff Merrick co-hosting the lunch. So where does this fall? Like, is there like, are you just a guest?

I don't remember you were co-hosting it. Well, I hosted a one-hour edition. Okay, okay. Are you just a guest? I don't remember. You were co-hosting it with Bill Waters? Well, I hosted a one-hour edition. Okay, okay. And I think, didn't Brady and Merrick do the afternoon show? Maybe Merrick did both. I remember because Brady got poached from 640 to go to 590. Correct, yeah. And Mornings with Jim Lang, and then Jim Lang left.

But I did segments with Merrick and Wilbur, and I also did segments with Greg Brady and Bill Waters. Okay, gotcha. And then that morphed into the one-hour Leafs lunch. Gotcha. And, you know, aside from telling good stories and having fun, I still, this is, again, a very personal story for you here, Mike. I have a credit card that is essentially named after AM640.

So it was a business card that I had, and I still keep. I don't use it anymore. But it was based on, so it was the fun money. What's the number? Do you mind? It was the fun money, right? I was paid on the side, handsomely, I might add, by AM640. handsomely, I might add, by AM640.

And so I used this corporate card, and it was paid off on a monthly basis by my good pals at AM640. That sounds like a good deal, buddy. It sounds like a good deal. It was at the time. Yeah, there was that time where 640 was kind of trying to be sports media, sort of, before they decided not to.

But yeah, interesting. Now, a quick question about Dave Hodge. time where 640 was kind of trying to be sports media sort of before they decided not to but uh yeah interesting um now a quick question about dave hodge uh first of all do you have any recollection so dave hodge is no longer because he told me this he came in to kick when he kicked out the jams most people do their 10 songs he said i'll come on but and we'll play the 10 songs he says but i'm doing my top 100 he came here and told us about his top 100 songs of all time. Yeah, it's not a little-known fact, because I think he tweets enough to give the fan base at least a sense of the type of music fan he is

and the depth of his music knowledge. Likewise, he's a wine connoisseur. People may or may not know that. I didn't know that. So those are two interesting side qualities of Dave Hodge. But as you've experienced, I mean, he could talk

endlessly about his music experience and talk about being well known in the music industry. Dave Hodge is right up there. He rubbed shoulders with the best of the best. And you know, the Horseshoe Tavern, I just did an episode all about the Horseshoe Tavern. So it's a whole episode where we discussed, you know,

the history of the Horseshoe Tavern and big concerts that were held there, etc., etc. When they had the 70th birthday of the Horseshoe Tavern, when they had that show, it was hosted by Dave Hodge, who has probably seen over, you know, thousands of shows at the Horseshoe Tavern. Probably. And his taste in music is so vast.

I'm a prairie boy, right? Like Jess Moskaluk, I don't know if you've heard of her or not. She's a Canadian country music star. Come on. You've got to expand your music repertoire a little bit. Probably. Juno Award winning artist. So she grew up in the same small town that I did. She's much younger than I. In fact, her dad, God rest his soul,

and my sister dated way back in the day. Interesting. Anyway, off topic here a little bit, but my roots are in country music. So I don't go much beyond, outside of the Tragically Hip, of course, and things like that. And back in the day when I was a teenager, Journey was a big thing for me. Well, don't do any spoilers here because we are going to touch upon your Journey love soon. But I'm always intrigued.

When Hodge and I would do Leaf Games or whatever shows we'd be working on, aside from talking about the obvious, hockey, we'd talk a little bit about music and a lot more about wine. I always picked his brain for some of his top choices. Interesting. It's too bad. I know The Reporters was canceled, and that was kind of the...

When that was gone... End of an era, man. Yeah. End of an era. Dave's, the way he put it was basically that he was going to do other things because that was sort of the meat of what he was doing. And so now he calls himself a unrestricted

free agent. But Hodge, yeah, the Reporters was a great show. I tell you, some of my favorite memories at TSN are working with Dave Hodge. Iconic, right? Yeah. You know, again, I'm old enough to remember Dave Hodge. Iconic, right? Yeah. You know, again, I'm old enough to remember Dave Hodge

on Hockey Night in Canada. So, you know, to think that I could have a place on the same panel as Dave Hodge was extraordinary to me. But he's got a real unique sense of humor as well. Yeah, yeah. So I've got all the time in the world for Dave Hodge. He's a pioneer in the industry as well. Quick fun fact. I won't dwell on it too long, but Paul Romanuk was here

recently and he was working at Hockey Night in Canada as a... I don't know. He's a guy who does research and notes and he hands it to the host or something. Like a statistician. Yeah, something like that. Right. But he was right beside Dave Hodge the night off camera. But right when Dave Hodge the night off camera.

But right when Dave Hodge flips the pen, his farewell, if you will, at the Hocken in Canada. So he recently shared kind of his perspective on what happened that night. And I've already had Dave Hodge, his first appearance. He broke down what happened that night. Fascinating stuff. I always think we should make a T-shirt with Dave flipping the pen. Can you imagine, like in today's world, what you have to do to get fired? I'm pretty sure

a pen or a pencil flip isn't getting it done. You can roll your eyes. You can call out just about anyone. That's right. Yeah, he was ahead of his time. Gino Retta's mustache. I heard in Brian's message to you he made a joke that his pint glass does not have Gino Retta's mustache. I know Jay and Dan

had made coffee cups, I think, with it, which I never got one. I asked for one. I don't know if it's still in the mail coming. I'd like one. Could you please, next time you see Gino, who didn't have to drive from Brooklyn, he was really close, it was a really short drive from him,

can you please ask him, bring back the mustache? He may, but then it gets problematic because, and I think people can appreciate, Gino's hair color changes from time to time. And again, I'm comfortable in telling this story because I'm a man with graying hair and my bosses have come to me on more than one occasion to ask if I would consider coloring my hair. Don't do it, man. And every time I've said, no, I'm not doing that.

You know, I'm not doing that. Yeah, Gino succumbed to the pressure and did it. So I'm just thinking that if he had to do both the do and the mustache, would it be too time consuming? No, you raise a good point. I didn't even consider that, of course. They got to match, if you will. Yeah, I didn't realize that. Well, it's better if they match.

I mean, it might be a little unsightly. And we've already talked enough about Jay and Dan, but they did do a fun little bit that I'm going to play because it's about you. So let's just listen to a little bit of Jay and Dan here. Oh, Melvin, you're here. One thing we haven't had a chance to talk to all night, trending topic worldwide in the USA, all over this country,

dragger face. You helped make it happen. This is incredible. This is the original picture taken by Pierre Lebrun earlier tonight when they allowed all the reporters outside the NHL offices to come inside so they wouldn't freeze. That was the Dregger face. And these are some of the favorite Photoshopped versions of Dregger face.

Awfully visual, so I won't... Yeah. Yeah, but, so, Dregger face. Any comments on Dregger face? Well, look, it was strange, to say the least. I mean, Pierre Lebrun was not, you know, trying to isolate me because I had that kind of gothic, ghostly look on my face.

He was just taking a picture to tweet out about the assembled media getting warm during the lockout inside as opposed to outside NHL headquarters. And I just happened to get eerily caught, captured in this

picture. But, I mean, that thing took on a life of its own very quickly. And, yeah, Jay and Dan were quick to jump all over it. But at one point, I had the Letterman Show actually to reach out to me. Oh, wow. To say, you know, what was going on? Is that for real? So there was a bit of a, there was a pre-interview before they decided that, all right, it's not that big of a deal. We thought there'd be a better story,

and they kind of kicked me to the curb. Still closer than most of us get to The Letterman Show. So very cool. Has anyone, and I was wondering, because it happened to me sometimes in the past, has anyone ever confused you with Darren Millard? No, but I get Darren to Titian a lot. A lot, in fact, which is a little surprising.

You know, clearly it's just the name. You know, how many Darrens can there be? But you're all Western Canadians. Yeah, yeah. There's something there. And all went through Edmonton. Millard worked in Edmonton. Detition worked in Edmonton.

And, you know, I've gone through my career path, and it was kind of kick-started by a stop in Edmonton. Jay Honrae came through Edmonton, too, right? Well, he was more near there anyway. But that's kind of, I doned by a stop in Edmonton. Jay Honore came through Edmonton too, right? Well, he was more near there anyway. But that's kind of, I don't think that can be a coincidence anymore. I need to do some digging here. But I do get, mostly, you know what it is? It's when you're in NHL arenas or you're out in the public

and they see you, they recognize you, but it's just they're struggling. That's Darren Detition! Darren Detition. Right. You know, that's kind of what it could be. Because, I mean, if you put Dutchie and I side by side, I mean, he's a behemoth of a human being. I've never had the pleasure of meeting Dutchie. Well, you've got to invite him in to do the show.

I wrote him two emails, no replies. Don't feel slighted because he seldom if ever responds to email. All right. Well, if you know another way to get a hold of Dutchie, I would. As long as you're okay with him showing up wearing his men's small T-shirt and flexing the pecs and doing arm curls while you're talking, then you'll be fine. And he may crush three or four of these beers.

If you leave him that in close proximity. That always makes for a better episode. Does it? Mike Gregotsky on Twitter says, for you, Darren, who is your favorite sportscaster that you've worked with? There's a loaded question for you. And if Darren's willing to burn a bridge, who is your least favorite?

He's trying to get you in trouble here, I think. I don't know, Mike. Let's see if Darren will answer these two tough questions. Ah. Favorite. He's trying to get you in trouble here, I think. I don't know, Mike. Let's see if Darren will answer these two tough questions. Ah, favorite. And I probably tip my hand is Duffy. Just again, because of the experiences that we've had, good, bad and otherwise, his creative genius for me is is is just makes it fun on a day-by-day basis. Least favorite. That is very, very tricky. Rick Barry. Remember the basketball player? Yes.

Yeah. He was an analyst. So believe it or not, again, back to my Sportsnet days, this sounds ridiculous, but I was an NBA fill-in host. So when Rob Foulds was traveling or whoever it was i was hosting at the time was away i probably did uh maybe five or six nba games from studio that that year or two and rick berry was one of the analysts uh who came in and he had zero time for me. Like, less than zero.

I think you'd find the former pros are going to be less. I actually have not had one yet on the show, believe it or not. I've yet to have a former pro, but I get the impression that if you were a professional athlete who came into the sports media world, you have a different tolerance or personality than people like yourself who are sports media people who had never played professional sports. Yeah, he, I mean, look, he had a very distinct way of approaching the broadcast. And he knew that my background wasn't basketball. That was pretty obvious.

But, I mean, I was a broadcaster and I felt like I was a professional at the time, and I could manage to ask an NBA question, but he was condescending. He literally said, you just ask the question this way, and I'll do the rest, and that always stuck with me. Get that garbage out of here. Someone on

Twitter, Yannick Boudouin, like I said, I didn't get to go to the good Camp Tournesol French camps, but Yannick Boudouin. Like I said, I didn't get to go to the good Camp Tournesol French camps, but Yannick Boudouin. Boudouin? I'm terrible at that. He wants to know, it's a weird question.

He did it by Twitter, so I'm going to ask it. Patcheretti trade or not trade in draft? Question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark. Do you have anything you want to say about Patcheretti trade? No, look, you know, we obviously covered it extensively leading up to the deadline. Do you have anything you want to say about Pacioretty trade? No, look, you know, we obviously covered it extensively

leading up to the deadline. I didn't feel there was a strong chance, even though we talked about it a lot leading up to the deadline, that Pacioretty was going to be traded because Marc Bergevin and the Montreal Canadiens had very specific wants in the ask. And, you know, according to some teams, it was exorbitant. It was just way too much.

You know, it was either a quality second-line center at worst, or it was a first-round draft pick and a top-top prospect. Well, that just isn't going to happen in season. I think that there's a better chance that Pacioretty does get traded, you know, at the draft because there's more flexibility. And I feel like it's the right time, too. You know, Pacioret Um, I think he needs a change, uh, and you know, the organization is going to get good value for them. And obviously

there's some real specific needs that Mark Bergevin, the Montreal Canadians are going to have to find a way to address. Before we kick out a jam, since this is Toronto, Mike, I have to ask you, uh, any chance John Tavares becomes a Leaf? A very slim chance. I'm not going to say zero. Very slim because like every other team in the National Hockey League, if Tavares doesn't extend with the Islanders before July 1st, then every team is going to inquire. Well, they all extend, don't they? Yeah, they normally do.

I guess what's intriguing, though, about Tavares, if you want to make the comparison to Stamkos a year ago, Stamkos knew that his best chance of winning a Stanley Cup was staying where he is with the Tampa Bay Lightning. John Tavares might feel differently about the New York Islanders who are a non-playoff team. So that's what fuels him more than anything else. He wants to win a Stanley Cup.

So if he looks at the open market and says, well, I feel like I've got a better chance in San Jose or Montreal or name the city that is going to take a hard swing at him, maybe he decides that's the best option. In Toronto, man, it gets tough. I mean, we're talking about the unlikeliness of James Van Riemsdyk extending in Toronto, and he's a 30-plus goal scorer now for the Maple Leafs, and they can't afford to give up the cap space of better than $6 million. And I got to believe that Tavares in the open market is getting $11, $12-plus million. Yes. And Matthews is going to get $11, $12-plus million.

So if there weren't a salary cap, the Maple Leafs would be all in on John Tavares, but unfortunately there is. Does this take you back, Darren? Oh, that takes me back. The early 1980s. I'm a teenager driving my mom's Cougar. Oh, Cougar. Listening to Separate Ways with Journey. Tremendous.

This song sounds like early 80s when I listen to it. Let's hear a bit. Steve Perry. So I played this with my 13-year-old daughter the other day, and she said it reminded her of, I can't remember which songs, but it reminded her of some songs from the early 80s. And I'm like, yep, that was the sound. Nice.

I'm telling you, between Journey, like I wore this cassette out, and now you've got to explain to your daughter what a cassette actually is. It's made a mild comeback, believe it or not. They know what cassettes are. Between Journey and The Outfield. Yeah, I had outrageous music taste back then. I mean, Journey was a popular band. Outfield, I think, was fairly popular at the time as well.

But I was a cool dude, man, playing air guitar, listening to this tune. Listen to this part. This is great, you know. Oh, she said it reminded her of Survivor, the Rocky song, Eye of the Tiger. That was one of the jams she said it reminded her of. So, Steve Perry, have you ever seen

Journey in Concert? I haven't, and it's sad. And my wife and I have actually joked or somewhat half-seriously discussed going to Rama because I think Journey was there a couple of years ago, but it's not Steve Perry. And honestly, for me, that's the deal-breaker. With all due respect to the new guy.

The Filipino. I mean, he sounds really good. I don't respect to the new guy. The Filipino. I mean, he sounds really good. Yeah, he sounds good. Well, he sounds like Steve Perry, which, yeah. It's not the same. It's funny. It's funny. You're absolutely right.

And I saw, so speaking earlier, we had that Alice in Chains fan ask a question, and I saw Alice in Chains in concert with the new lead singer who sounds eerily like Layne Staley, the original lead singer. And you're right. It's kind of like, it's just not the same. It's not the same. Now, if you're going down the road to nostalgia, you want to make sure to get it as true as possible.

All right. I'm just going to bring down separate ways just to play us out here. Well, almost play us out, but... Okay, so this I would think... It's fair to say this is Journey's biggest hit, would you say? Not for me, but probably.

No, not for you. No, your jam is Separate Ways. We all know that, of course. Although I did come from a small town. I can no longer hear this song without thinking of the Sopranos. So that's where I'm at now. So I hear this song now, it's all Sopranos. But this song, I think it was because Glee brought this song back.

So the younger generation, like my daughter's age and everything, they know this song like it was from their time. I'm telling you, my daughter was a music and drama major. So she's very familiar with it. And my son, who, as I said, is almost 17, that is an intriguing dynamic of those young boys. They love this vintage stuff. So Journey is among their favorite bands as well.

I'm surprised you didn't kick out a country jam, actually. If you did come back, and I know that's a long drive, so I'm not going to't kick out a country jam, actually. If you did come back, and I know that's a long drive, so I'm not going to make you come back. I'll come back. If you did come back and kick out the jams, I'd be okay with some country jams. Luke Bryan, Cole Swindell, Tim McGraw. It's all good, man. It's all good.

I'd have to find these songs, I think, unless you picked a Garth Brooks track. That's too easy. That's all good. I'd have to find these songs, I think, unless you picked a Garth Brooks track. That's too easy. That's too easy. Are you going to be calling James Duffy at some point and saying, you asshole, you made me go over to that terrible show, or will it be one of those,

thanks, James, I had a great time on Toronto. No, I'll definitely call him an asshole, but I will thank him and say, you were right. Mike's a good guy guy and I had fun. You were a great guest because I felt honesty from you, so no bullshit from Darren Dreger. He's a good cat, everybody.

So thanks for doing that. Thank you. And that brings us to the end of our 314th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at TorontoMike. Darren is at Darren Dreger. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer.

Propertyinthe6.com is at Raptors Devotee. PayTM is at PayTM Canada. And Camp Tournesol is at Camp Tournesol. T-O-U-R-N-E-S-O-L. See you all next week.

Just like mine and it won't go away cause everything is rosy and green.