Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Dave LeBlanc, The Architourist: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1934

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

In this 1934th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with The Architourist Dave LeBlanc about his new book Hidden Toronto, his years writing for The Globe & Mail, his lengthy career at 1010 CFRB, and Irma Girdle.A version of this podcast without programmatic ads is available to all Toronto Mike'd Patrons at patreon.com/torontomike.Toronto Mike'd, an award-winning podcast, is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca.If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please emaail Toronto Mike at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, I am Dave Blanc and this is my Toronto mic debut. I'm very excited. I'm the author of Hidden Toronto, secret places and forgotten gems of the GTA and beyond, or something like that by Firefly Books. And I've made it my mission to go out and notice things, weird things, things that you may not notice in your everyday travels. Welcome to episode 1,934 of Toronto Mic'd. An award-winning podcast, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great LakesBeer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville.

Visit palmaPasta.com for more. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Catch a game at Christy Pits this summer. there tomorrow, Friday night. Fusion Corp's own Nick Aienies. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline and Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recyclemyelectronics.ca.comitting to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, making his

Toronto Mike debut. It is the architourist. Dave LeBlanc. Hi there. I'm so glad you're wearing that hat. My greatest fear was you might show up and not have the hat. Oh, well, this is the solution to very expensive surgery. I don't have what you have on top.

Do you want to borrow some? Listen, that's a parting gift for you. Can I mention one of your sponsors? Say anything. I'm very excited about the fact that you have so many, and also Great Lakes Brewing has an amazing building that was a famous modernist architect named John C. Parkin, and he did a headquarters for Faberje, back in the 50s, and that is their headquarters. And they are treating it very

nicely. And it's just wonderful to see a parkin building being loved, being understood. They know the history of it. They said when they first got the building, they could still smell the perfume. It was actually really cool. And they gave me a little tour around one time and also they make really good beer. Well, I'm giving you some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes to take home with you, Dave. So that's going home with you. But I'm glad you shouted out that building. I knew some of that history, but of course, you're bringing the heat off the top here. And I should tell you, Dave, effective now. You're an FOTM. That means friend of Toronto Mike. And you are now invited every single June, the last Thursday of June, FOTMs like you,

we all collect at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard, the building you're talking about, to have a fresh craft beer from Great Lakes and delicious Italian food from Palma Pasta. Did I mention you're going home with a lasagna from Palma Pasta as well? Oh my God. Can it all fit in my backpack? You know, we're going to find out. We're going to find out.

Okay, so you're invited is what I'm telling you. Thank you. To get to these TMLX events. Okay. No ticket required. like I say for Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. So I saw you were ride in a motorcycle. Yeah.

Motorcycle. Yeah, I had one as a young lad. Was I 19? I probably rode till I was 23 or 4. Life got in the way. And then when I was about to turn 50, I said to my wife, I'm anything, should I get a motorcycle or a mistress? So I think giving her that.

Why not both, Dave? Well, no, giving her that choice, I knew which one she'd pick, right? Right. Most wives don't want to see you on a motorcycle, but I thought probably better that. So I started off with a Royal Enfield, which is an Indian-made motorcycle to British plans. Okay. And then I got rear-ended a few years later. And I was fine.

I told the guy, I said, if you're going to get, if you're going to hit somebody on a motorcycle, hit their back tire, not their leg. Good tip. Yeah. And then I said, you know, honey, I've always really wanted a triumph. So that's what I got. Okay, you looked really happy out there. I was.

Like, I sensed this happiness for me. you and I'm like, this guy's figured it out. Now, how deep into your 50s are you? Oh, should I tell you? Ooh. Well, you don't have to tell me. I'm pushing 60. I'll roughy up there.

Okay, so you're late 50s. Yeah, late 50s. Okay, because I can't. I honestly can't tell. I have good skin. Well, I was going to ask about being on a motorcycle in a day like today. So I don't have a motorcycle, but I have a bicycle. And I get out every day.

And I had schedule, I literally schedule rides. And I had a ride scheduled for after this recording. And I canceled today's ride because I was told the, the air quality was worse than yesterday. So what is it like on a motorcycle, on a day like today when my advice for anybody is just don't breathe? I actually, I'm asthmatic and I

didn't find it all that bad. I don't know. Because you're moving so quickly? Maybe. I mean, I literally I thought maybe I should take my air-conditioned Volkswagen Touse and then I thought, no, I want to drive a bike. And also I'm going to work after this and parking is hard. So no, I just I took it. I felt fine. I didn't wheeze or cough. No, it was

wonderful. Good to hear because I did a ride yesterday and people told me I was crazy. It's toxic out there. But I'm like, it wasn't so bad. And today it just smelled worse. And I decided maybe I'll skip a day, but you're inspiring me. Maybe I need to get out there or be like Dave. Okay. So there's so many, so many places I need to go. What is, tell me now, what is the heart out? You said you have to go to work after this. What is the moment by which you have to say goodbye to me? Oh, we do. Do we have an hour? Oh, yeah. Maybe a bit longer. Yeah. Okay, just making sure. I don't want to make you late for work here. Okay. So today, this is episode 1834. Wow.

Hey, that's the year that Toronto became a city. That's exactly where I'm going with this. So it was March, you're the man. People don't want to hear from me. They want to hear from you. But March 6th, 1834, the small town of York was officially incorporated as the city of Toronto. So that was a, that's kind of a significant number you've got, 1834. Well, I actually remember...

You remember 1834? No, but I remember... I remember 1984. Yeah, sesquicentennial. Yeah, and sesquy the squirrel was the mascot. Okay, you ready for this? So I played T-ball at Rennie Park in Swansea. And our team, for that one year only,

I was on the team called the sesquoise in honor of the sesquoise centennial. So forever in my mind, when I think about that sesquoise centennial, and also at school, we got these pins. Like, I think I kept mine. It's somewhere in a crate in this closet here. Wow.

We all got like Cesquy Centennial. It felt like we made a really big deal out of the Cesquy Centennial in 1984. Well, you know, Sesque the Squirrel, is now living on the island of lost and forgotten mascots, right? Right. The island of lost toys and, yeah, mascots. Along with that porcupine from the Pan Am Games. Oh, yeah. Although I didn't mind him.

And soon to be the beaver that we just saw around the city for the World Cup. Right. And the moose? Right. the moose, right? Yeah. Right. So 1834, significant number for you to be here.

Thank you. Can you name our first mayor? William Denison. You're close. It's William Lyon McKenzie. Oh, good. Was he a rabble rouser? He was a rabble rouser?

Yes, he was like a journalist, a reformist. Yeah, he was. I think Denison was back in the 50s, in the 1950s. All right. Well, that was a little later. Okay. Now, on Monday, my guest was Jeremy Hopkin.

I know him well. Well, this is it. So I said, I have a hello for you from Dave LeBlanc. And he said, hello back. So I am now the mediator between you and Jeremy Hopkins, just kind of keeping you guys in touch. So hello from Jeremy. He and I went to the same high school, actually.

We both went to Wexford School of the Arts. And he's a very, I would say he's a very trusted authority on Scarborough history, specifically. whereas I'm more of a jack of all Toronto trades. Well, we're going to get into it. So if I haven't mentioned it, I think you mentioned it, but I'm going to mention it too. I have read your book Hidden Toronto.

I took some notes. And I love your book Hidden Toronto. Like, I love it. Good. It does come from a place of love. It comes from 22 years writing the newspaper column, although I recycled a little bit, because I started writing weekly in 2000. and four.

I also expanded and re-looked at some things, re-examined some things. And I chose the things that I had written about that were quirky, because when the publisher came to me, they said, we used to do these books that were, you know, Ghost towns of Ontario and Firefly is the publisher. And we used to do, you know,

what was it like a hundred, you know, unusual things to find in Ontario, all these different kinds of books. And they said, would there be something like that for all of Ontario? And I said, well, unless you give me a travel budget, I can't go to Rainy River and Timmins. And I said, but I could do the GTA for you.

I said, I do have a lot of material already. And I'd love to re-examine that material and find new stuff. And they said, well, you're going to have to do, you know, parks and nature and stuff. I said, gee, I'm not really a nature guy, but okay, I'll do that. And so that's what it is. It's kind of a look back to everything I've written and some of the weirder stuff.

Like I say, like sidewalk stamps and, Tarazzo logos in front of old stores, which I've been noticing almost all my life. So at some point in this conversation, I took some list of some things I wanted to dive into that captured my attention. But I love the photos. I love the spirit.

I love what I learned. I'm here to tell the listenership that they got to pick up Hidden Toronto. How do you want, like if you had your way, if you were king for a day, how would you like people to purchase, and I have the proper full name here,

hidden Toronto, secret places, and forgotten gems of Toronto and the GTA. How do you want people to buy a copy? Oh. Like if you had your choice. I would say as a person that co-owns a store, a retail store, my wife and I sell vintage furniture, but I would think I would prefer if you went to a small retailer. I would like it if you went to type in the junction or if you went to swipe books at 401 Richmond or book city or even indigo. would be fine, but don't buy it.

As a last resort, Indigo, okay? I think that the people who would be interested in this book would take that extra step to buy it at a, let's call it, a independent, a mom-paw bookstore. Yeah, I mean, you know what? Like, markups on books are so low anyway. You know, whether you're given the five bucks to,

you know, Indigo or Book City, I think, you know, you might as well put your money there, right? I'm with you, man. I'm with you. Yeah. Urge people to get a copy here. So before we get you, Obviously, I have a lot of ground I want to cover with you, but you're a Montreal guy, right?

I only, no, I live there. Okay, so tell me, because I know you worked, you started in radio there. I'm curious about, like, the radio part, the, the newspaper part. Oh, okay. Then, well, there's a whole other part I want to ask you about. And then there's hidden Toronto. But when, like, are you, you, you're from Toronto and then you moved to Montreal? I only lived in Montreal for four years.

I think the LeBlanc name gets people confused. No, I was born in Toronto. I was born actually at St. Mike's Hospital and rush. immediately to sick kids because I was a little sick baby. Oh, no. Yeah, it's okay. That did happen to one of my kids. My mom loved to tell me how there was a 24-hour nurse on me.

And I had everything, pneumonia and asthma. And I was a preemie and jaundice. Well, maybe. Were you under the lights? I just remember my first born under the, like in an like a incubator type thing, under the lights with his jaundice. No, I don't know. Okay.

But I do know that my, my mother used to tell me that the nurses, would have to tickle my foot to remind me to breathe because I would stop breathing. Well, that would be a good idea today with the air quality, but not good back then. So anyway, whatever those 60s nurses were, I want to thank them. If they're still alive, I'm sure they're not, but for tickling my feet. That's always a weird thing. This is a thing I do, and then we're going to get back to why you went to Montreal. But like when I watch, let's see I'm watching, this is an example, I'll be watching like a documentary about the 1979

Summit series or something, right? And then I'll see all these like middle-aged people in the stands and they're well-dressed. And all I can think about is, oh, they're dead now. Like this is, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, that guy, that 50-year-old in 1972, long dead. Oh, for sure. I mean, that's a morbid way of looking at the world, but I guess I understand it. Well, on that note, Dave, I have a measuring tape for you from Ridley Funeral Home,

and they've been pillars of this community since 1921. God. Well, I don't really know if I came. you're expecting to consider my mortality in the endless void. Oh, we all die, Dave. It happens to all of us. But you look great. Oh, thank you.

You got many, many decades left in you. But why did you end up for four years in Montreal? Okay. So I went to an art school. Instead of doing fine art, I more went into the academics after a while. And then I was going to Ryerson, which is now TMU for radio television arts. And then, because I didn't take that year off that is so recommended in life. I didn't either.

So I got sick of school, and this is now 1988, and I had done the first half of radio year, and I had done maybe a month and a half going into the new year, and I dropped out. And because my folks had been paying for the school, I thought to my, I would pretend to go to school every day, and then I thought,

if I don't get a job, they're going to be really mad at me. So all I had learned so far was radio. So what I did was, and I'll make this quick, I called every, you don't have to make it quick. Okay.

Well, I called every radio station in Toronto. Okay. And I said like, I'm in there like, okay, well, call us back when you graduate. I'm like, well, no, I'm kind of not going anymore. So the last radio station I called had only been on the air for six months. They were called Easy 97.3, which became Easy Rock. Easy Rock.

I remember it well. Yeah. But anyway, they were an easy listening station in 1988. Right. It was sort of a last dying gasp of trying to do easy listening because that was more of a 60, 70s, early 80s format. Right. Anyway, they were new in town.

They were run by a, let's say, a small to medium market first time in the big city. So they actually said, well, why don't you come on in and show us what you know? And so they gave me some tasks and they interviewed me. And of course, I was a keener and pretended that I knew everything. And I got a job. So then I was able to go to my

parents and say, I've dropped out, but I'm working at Easy 97. Which at the time, by the way, had a few legends working there. Can you name check these legends. I love radio legends. Oh, Carl Bannis? Yeah. Russ Thompson. By the way, you mentioned Island of Lost mascots? Right. And that made me think of the Island of Misfit Toys and he's a voice in that

Rudolph the Red Nose Rainier. That's amazing that, that you know that. That's a piece of trivia that I throw out there. I said, I work with Carl Bannis. Who's that? Well, he was in a show called Wojek and he also did all these cartoon voices. Yes. Rocket Robin Hood and one of the, well, he did Hermie. He did the, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the head elf. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm telling you.

Yeah, in the Rudolph the Red Nose Range. Yeah. So, and one of the toys. The Rankin Bass productions. Yeah. So anyway, my mother had been listening to Carl Bannis for decades. And she's like, you're working with Carl Bannis. Well, hallelujah. I'm glad you dropped out of school.

You dropped the big name on Ma. That's smarty. Yeah. And, you know, Bill Anderson was there who's still around on classical, I think. And, gee, there was some really old guys there, too, that had been in radio. One of the guys I remember telling me, like, oh, I introduce Benny Goodman, you know, at the C and E and I'm like, wow, you know, like 1946. Anyway, long story

short, that's how I got under radio on a hope and a prayer and a wing in a prayer. So how long are you at what, the station that I'll call it the station that would eventually become Easy Rock. Which then became Boom 97.3. My buddy, Humble Howard, was the

first morning show host with Colleen Rushholm when it turned into Boom. Yeah. And they both got turfed for some guy named Stu Jeffries. I don't know if you've heard Stu. He's still there. He's still there. He's good, rock and good. I keep stealing your thunder. No, it's your thunder, man.

I'm stealing your thunder. Let's get this right, Dave. Anyway, I'm stealing your thunder. Stu's a wonderful guy. Oh, yeah. And he cried in this basement, so if you get worked up and feel free to cry, I got a Phoenix over here. What did he cry about?

Oh, he got all emotional about because he's had a few comebacks. He's a bit of like a Phoenix. Like, he'll build himself up stronger. He's the Phoenix of Toronto Radio, Stu Jeffries. He's an emotional guy. It wasn't hard to make more. cry. I just punched him in the nose. Okay. So you're at easy,

easy. Not long. I left when they had their production manager leave. I was doing, you know, assistant production meaning making radio commercials, basically. Recording. So soundboards and microphones are nothing new to me. But you didn't have it. I know this guy, I told you before I pressed record that

I got this guy in 2018 when it was invented. Yeah. But before that, I had this ProFX Mackey, which was far less colorful. That's why I just kind of It was like more, but I can imagine it was fun to operate the boards in a radio station in the late 80s. Oh, it was massive. I mean, those were the boards. Like a console, right?

Yeah, like, you know, it looked like the Starship Enterprise. Anyway, but you used only a couple of faders anyway. Right. All that to say. Right. So I, I, when the production manager job came up and they didn't select me and I was still wet behind the ears, but Bannis and all those guys were like, Dave would be great. He's only 19, but that's fine.

Anyway, I left in a huff, and luckily somebody recommended me to CFRB. So I worked after a year and a half at easy, I worked at CFRB for a couple of years, and then I was in a band, and we wanted to go on the road, and my mother thought I was crazy, but I quit to go on the road with my band. What was your band's name? Circle of Ill Health. Terrible name. I know, and we...

Is it too late to change it? We used to have band meetings, like, we should change this. No, it's, you know, it's heritage. We invented it in 86 and we're having these meanings in 1990. Like even just calling it a circle. Would have been nice, yeah. Or even just ill health. I don't know.

Ill. People thought we were like a hardcore band like the Cusker Do or something. And we certainly were not. We were like a post-punk echo on the bunnyman kind of, you know, with a bit of a 60s mix to it. And anyway, all that to say, I left radio just before 1991 hit. Hey, can I ask you before we, because I know we'll get you back to CFRB, but at that point when you're at CFRB for a little while before you decide to make it big with Circle of Ill Help,

like, can you name check anybody at CFRB at that time you were working with? Wally Crowder. So Wally Crouter, I believe, he was the morning show host for 50 years. Am I right about that? Yeah, 1946 to 1996. I don't think we'll have a run like. Maryland Dennis got to 40 years. Isn't that something?

We're not getting to 50. don't think again. So now, Wally, you know, to his credit, I'm a young kid there. I only lasted a couple years. So, you know, he's been there so long that the joke was every time you'd get in the elevator with Wally, he'd introduce himself because, because you were just one, one face of a million that he'd seen, and I wasn't there long enough for him to really get to know my name. Right. However, who else was there? Bill Stevenson. Oh, yeah. So he was doing sports. Yeah, Bill was there. I mean, Gordson, Clara, unfortunately, had passed. I'm trying to think of some of the Betty Kennedy had been gone for a while.

Right. Right. But, I mean, you know, some of the behind the scenes people were people that had been there for 20 years and 50 years and back to the 60s. And for the young ins, like this is an era when like half the radios in this city would be waking up to 1010. Oh, yeah. Like, like, you know, now it's so fragmented, but that was a juggernaut. I mean, and I would tell people that and they, oh, well, and I'd especially tell younger people that say, oh, yes, my parents had their dial welded. you know, they'd run inside the radio and welded it to 10-10 so we couldn't change it. I would bet all the parents had 10-10 and all the teenagers had 10-50. Oh, yeah.

And they were right down the street from each other for a while, right? So can I ask, is this, when you're at what would become Easy Rock and then, of course, 10-10 CFRB, is this to St. Clair? Yeah, okay, because I've been to those studios. So the reason I went to Montreal is I was out of radio for five years. And I did a series of terrible jobs. I went back to university, York University for an English degree. I dropped out of that. And then...

I have one of those. Anyway, after a series of horrible jobs and a few nervous breakdowns, I... Yep, and I don't want to name the jobs, but one of them is a pretty well-known job that a lot of people would love to have. Do you want me to name it? Of course. Canada Post. I was a letter carrier for a while. But I've got a very active brain, and if you make me wake up at 5 in the morning, drive to work in the dark, work in a warehouse,

sorting mail by myself and the best thing is the coffee truck showing up and then go out with all of that mail all by yourself and have to deliver that mail what that means is you're alone with your thoughts right from way too early to you know for a full work day you've talked to maybe two people to say hey how you doing and my brain couldn't handle that i literally it was the worst job for me but i could see how it was a great job for other people right just wasn't for Dave. But my brain would go off into horrible directions, speaking of funeral homes and the endless void, that's where my brain would go.

Right. Because it wasn't a good fit. I need activity. I need people. I need conversations. I need, you know, creative things to do. And it just wasn't that. So that was the circle of ill help.

It really was. I guess I made it, I made it true. So, and I started looking for work in radio. And because I still had a few contacts at RB. I got a job at C.J.A.D. AM 800 in Montreal, which is the, basically the news talk sister station. And so I worked there with a couple of legends.

George Balkin was the morning man at the time. Gord Sinclair Jr. was the head of the newsroom. So I didn't meet Gord, senior, but I met his son. And Ted Bird. Oh, Ted Bird's a Montreal Institute. Yeah, so a lot of people that were there. So I went from one legendary station to another. And in Montreal, English radio is, it not only is important,

it felt like the 70s in how important it was because it was tying the English community together. They had like three TV stations and a couple of radio stations and the first year, you know, the big English holiday there is St. Patrick's Day. Right. In Montreal.

It's the only holiday where it's all about being English or Irish. And anyway, I went on the float, the CJAD float, and people were screaming and trying to touch us and I'm like, I just make commercials and be like, CJD, and they're screaming and they're reaching up. And I'm like, what's going on here? Like I couldn't figure it out, but it was that they were a crucial voice in that community

that really tied, you know, Tommy Schnemacher was the guy that talked about, you know, how much he hated the separatists almost every day. So we, they were a very amazing station to work for because they felt important and it felt like radio when it was. And in the 90s, it felt like, like I say, the 60s 70s, when radio was one of the only things. Well, in the 90s, because we're similar vintage. You got a couple on me, but in the 90s, radio was big. Right? Like any, basically pre-internet, it's tough to explain to kids the role of radio and newspapers. I agree with you, but I'm just, oh, I'm making my hat look funny. You know,

it's, I agree with you, but I feel like, um, it was more like, um, a crucial voice to the community that, that linked everyone together. Like, back when DJs were, you know, talking to teenagers in the 60s, you know what I mean? Like, I felt like it was like that in a way. Right. Right. It's hard to, and I know radio was still important in the 90s, but I just felt there even more of that. No, that makes sense to me. So you're only there four years, though. I was. And then I got transferred back to CFRB in Toronto. So I did go back, but all the

legends were gone by that point in the year 2000, 1990, end of 1999, when I went back. Right. I guess Ted Walshian is the morning show host. He would be at that time, yeah. Okay. Shout out to 10. who was doing the comedy show on CFNY back in the late 70s. All right, but before we get you out of Montreal, is this where you start writing for a newspaper? Well, strangely enough, because the English community is small. I was at a cocktail party where members of the Montreal Gazette

and the CTV affiliate, which was CFCF. We were all there, and I was yammering on about an anniversary coming up for Westmount Square, which is a Mies Valley. Ves Vandero building, and Mies van der Roe is a famous German architect that came to North America. I was yammering on about Mies van dero, Westmount Square, and somebody from the Gazette was listening to our conversation, and they walked over, and they said, you sure seem to know a lot about this Mies van dero fella. I said, oh, yeah, I've liked architecture since I was a little kid, and I follow it, and you've

got this amazing building here. It's coming up on its 30th anniversary, so I guess that'd be like, this would be 97 or 98, so it was built. in 67 or 68. Oh, well, we have a guest page. We don't have an architecture writer, but we invite somebody once a week to write a piece on architecture.

Would you like to write it? And at that point, all I'd written for was my high school newspaper. But, you know, you work in radio. You must know how to string a sentence together. And that was my debut in the newspaper world. Was this piece for the Gazette? Did you adopt the handle

architecturist at this point? No. No. So I wrote a few more pieces for the gazoo, as they call it. And then I wrote a few pieces for the West Island Suburban, which is an English community newspaper on the West Island. Then I was transferred back to RB, and I wrote another few pieces for people in Montreal that I knew.

And then I didn't write for a bit. So then at CFRB, I approached somebody and said, like, I have a lot of knowledge about architecture, and I know we don't have those foreground rules anymore where we have to do spoken word. However, you know, R.B is a talk station. So you think on the weekend it would be fun to do like a 90 second kind of thing like,

hey, you're at the intersection of Spadina and Adelaide. If you look up, you'll see the year such and such on a building, and you might see this decoration on a building. Well, that's because this building used to be the home of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, so it would be something where you're showing people things in their city as an art, as a tourist would. and then they're like, yeah, that's pretty good. Let's put you on the Saturday morning show.

And I said, okay, that's great. And then they said, well, you've got to come up with a name. So I'm there scribbling along. They're like, you know, tourism, architecture, building stories, could I call it? Like, you know, because stories is double meaning. Anyway, and I happened upon the archa tourist. And then so that name was applied first to these 90-second vignettes. Then the 92nd vignettes went on for a few years.

And then I met somebody at CFRB who was dating. somebody who would become the travel editor at the Globe and Mail. Okay, all these pieces are fitting together, Dave. Holy smokes. Is that a portmanteau? Is that what is called? A Danu Mall? I don't know.

When you glue a couple of words together and make like Arcturist. I think that's a portmanteau or something like that. But anyway, there you go. So are you doing these bits? Is this like where does FOTM, the late great John Donaby, play a role here? Is he one of the weekend hosts that you might be talking about? He's the one that was playing the Arcturist. There you go.

Because I was buddies with his producer. Who was his producer? His producer at that time was Mark Wigmore. Oh, he's also an FOTM. Well, Mark Wigmore now is the host of the Oasis on the new classical 96.1. 7? Yeah, or three. I can't remember.

But yeah, Mark Wigmore, a very talented broadcaster in his own right. Absolutely. Yeah, we had a great chat here as well. But John Donaby was blowing my mind with his stories. It must have been like, like. Oh, John is, John was an amazing person. I mean, you know, I think I would learn new things about him every time I would chat. And oh, I managed bands back in the 60s.

I'm like, what? Like, what are you talking about? There's a lot of meat on those bones. I know, right? And strangely enough, this is fast forwarding quite a bit, but I moved into his neighborhood in 2005. And so I would see him a fair bit like mowing the lawn and stuff. he he's also one of the nicer people to you know grace this basement studio just a gentleman he he definitely was a gentleman um

the only weird thing about john was because he had been an artist and a and a performer for so long he was very paranoid like and i don't mean that in a bad way i mean he was one of these people that he was like are you sure that that was good and are you know do you think that person liked me and are you mad at me there was a lot of insecurity there and and i i i i I understand it because I feel that way often about things I produce. Now, this book, I actually kind of like it, but I understand where he was coming from, but it was weird because here was this older gentleman, as you say, and he would show that lack of confidence sometimes.

And I'd be like, dude, you have nothing to worry about. You just say, dude, you were at the last waltz, okay? I know, right? He was there. I know. But he was there with John Lennon. I mean, we worked very hard back and forth to get a second. I wanted a second visit from John because there's so much meat on the bones.

And then it was in the books and then he was unwell and then it was in the books. And I'll never forget the phone call. He phoned me to tell me, he said, Mike, I have to postpone. I have cancer. And I remember this call so vividly. I pulled over on a bicycle and I was talking to John Donoughby. And yeah, never, never talked to him again. What a loss.

Yeah. No, I mean, you know, I, you're really going to some dark. to make you cry, okay, because two Jeffries cried, and I want to see if I can get Dave LeBlanc to cry. We had a client that would come in and read his own commercials, and I will not name this client.

This client would come in, and he would bring in his patience, so that gives you a slight idea, to do testimonials. But this is the kind of person who would he would like almost feed them what to say,

and to the point where they couldn't be spontaneous anymore. And I would say you are, you are robbing yourself of good material because you are really, if you, if you tell them, you know, seven to ten words in, and they're trying to remember that, then they won't, they won't be able to be spontaneous with their testimonial. And I remember one time he was like, they almost started to cry. And he was like begging them to cry because he wanted the crying on the mic, right? I'm like, dude, you can't. You can't force that. It's like, yeah, crocodile tears.

whatever you end up with. Right. Well, you don't have to cry, David. Just feel free to. It's a safe space if you want to go out. So we're very close because I know we've got to pivot to hidden Toronto, obviously. But how many years did you host the Arcturist on CFRB? I would say no more than four or five.

And we had a couple of great salespeople, legends, too, that were trying to sell it. And they just couldn't. Like, you know, I remember at the time, what's his face that ran to Hamilton there with his tail between his legs? They were trying to sell to him. Oh, his name will come to me. He tried to build a pyramid in Hamilton. I'm embarrassed.

I don't know who this is, okay? I might have to Google Hamilton Pyramid. It might have been Toronto for the pyramid, but I know that, anyway, they tried to sell it. They couldn't sell it. I guess after a while, the program director was like, okay, this has taken up too much time. And so, but I think before it ended, is when the assistant travel editor mentioned my name to the real estate editor and said, oh, you know, Mario, who I'm dating, works with a guy.

He loves architecture. He's nuts about it. Every time I'm at a cocktail party with this guy, it's all he talks about. And he's written for the Montreal Gazette. And I've written, what, three pieces maybe? And, you know, anyway, he's great. he's really articulate and and you know Mario vouches for him is that's Mario carlucci who now works in Ottawa

CBC anyway um good Irish fellow so so Darcy McGovern who is still my editor 23 years later said let's give this kid a chance and he literally it was like an old movie we spoke on the phone and he said like okay kid well he didn't say that but he said like okay I've got this story I've been trying to chase down and the guys being really elusive. And it's Peter Clues' brother.

And Peter Clues is a condo king of Toronto. He is with a firm called Architects Alliance. He's a big deal. Almost every condo that went up between 2000 and 2015 was by Architects Alliance. Wow. Anyway, so he's like, Peter Clues' brother has this farmhouse with a twist. And it's this modern take on a farmhouse. But I think he's getting divorced and he's being really, you know, hard to get.

If you can nail this story, kid. and I said, okay, and I took on this challenge. And I, like, dogged this poor guy because I wanted to write for the globe and mail. Right. And I begged him and pleaded him. Speaking of crying, I'm sure I probably cried to say, like, you've got to help me out, man. This could be my new career. And so, finally, this poor guy capitulated.

He's like, well, there's going to be boxes and my wife won't be here for obvious reasons. But come on down. And it was, it was, you know, an hour away. So I went. And that was the first story I wrote for the globe. And that was like on a freelance. That's not column kind of basis. Right.

And then I guess I did an okay job. And I said, could I pitch the odd one to you? And he's like, yeah, sure. So in that first year, I wrote, let's say, one every couple of months. So maybe seven or eight. Again, without a byline, just special to the globe. And I got into a couple places I always wanted to get into. The second piece I wrote for them, there's an artist in Toronto, dead in 84, so he wasn't

around, but his widow was around. His name is Ronald York Wilson. And Ronald York Wilson was a painter from the 50s to the 80s. He also is best known for the mural at O'Keefe Center, which is now called Meridian Hall. Right. It's 100 feet long. It's called the Seven Lively Arts.

He also did a mural at the Imperial Oil Building at St. Clair and Avenue Road. And I think that's 111 St. Clair West. And it's the story of oil. So it's two giant panels. And now if you go into the LCBO that's there and the little grocery store that's there, you can see each panel individually used to be the lobby of imperial oil. Anyway, long story short, okay. I'm like, I've dying to get into this house.

It's this little modernist house with a butterfly roof and you don't see those in Toronto much. And I'm like, okay, what do I do? What do I do? It's 2003. And so I literally picked up the phone book because we still had phone books back then. Right. It might have been online. But anyway, still a phone book.

And I look up Wilson and York Wilson is in the damn phone book. And there's a phone number. there, and I call it, and Lila Wilson, who at that time was about 90, picks up the phone. Dave LeBowell from the Globe and Mail. No, thank you. I don't want a Globe and Mail subscription. No, no, it's this not a subscription? I'm calling because I love your house.

Oh, you love my house? Well, yes, and I know who the architect is, and I know about your husband's career, and I really, oh, well, then come on over. I'll make you a gin and tonic. And she literally made me a gin and tonic, showed me around the house, and that was the second piece I wrote for the Globe. Wow. Yeah.

Now, I won't tell you every other one, but suffice it to say, I got into some things I wanted to see. And I guess I proved that I was, you know, a nosy little bugger that would, that would, you know, do the work. Right. And after about a year, I said, oh, and by the way, Darcy, the editor at the Globe, I said, I've been doing these little radio vignettes, and I have a lot of research sitting around. And I call them the archa tourist, and they're not, they wouldn't be full pieces, but he's like, are you trying to say that you'd like to say that you'd like to. to write regularly. I'm like, yeah, I would love to. And he said, well, you know, I just had this, you know,

home renovation diary end, so I actually have space. So do you want to do the Arca Tourist? And that was 2004. Wow. Okay, you know, you said you're not going to summarize every single piece you've written for the globe. Do you have an idea of how many pieces you've written? Like a guess?

Oh, well, if you have a calculator, I guess I could tell you, in addition to those first eight and 2003, I write between 40, 46 to 48 pieces a year. Okay. And that's 22 years now. Okay. It's well over 1,000, I guess.

Yeah, yeah, that math works. Because on the live stream, live.tronomike.com, I just read a comment from St. Catharines, Chris, who says, Dave had a great article in the globe last week about the house in Hamilton. Oh, yeah. His passion for architecture shines through. So here we are, whatever, a couple of decades plus later.

and people are still digging the archa, the art, wait, but hold on, what is the archa tourist? I don't want to mess that handle up here. But yeah, so amazing, Globe and Mail. That's a, you know, only smart people can write for the globe. Did you know that? Did I know that? Yeah. Well, I do, sometimes, I don't really have to sell it very often, but I do tell people

that are hesitant. I'm like, you know, we're read by business leaders and architects and, you know, highly educated people. I mean, it's, you know, it is, I guess, the newspaper with the biggest words in it. Yeah, without a doubt. I remember doing a, in grade school, we did some study or whatever on reading level of the dailies or whatever. And yeah, you had, you know, in the middle, you had the star.

A little lower, you had the sun and then higher you had the globe and male. Although I think those levels were like grade six, grade seven, and grade nine maybe. Right, right, right. You know, you make a good point there. Okay. So I do now want to talk about the book Hidden Toronto. I do know you wrote a novel in 2019, right? I did, and I've written some since that were not picked up, and I'm not going to disparage them.

You want to pitch them? No, not at all, but this novel, in comparison to what I've written since, I feel like it was my weakest, but it's strange that it got picked up, but I think it got picked up because it was a family story. It talked about a lot of weird Toronto things, and the publisher was fairly small, and I guess they were looking around for things to purchase. Now, I will say that, I'm not going to say it died on the vine, but I'm going to say because there wasn't a lot of promotion and stuff, I don't know that I sold more than maybe three, four hundred copies of it,

and that makes me feel terrible. But in Canada, that's a best seller. No. Although I do think in Canada, it's something like 5,000 or 10,000. That's what I hear. Yeah. I got books all over the place from people who are selling books, and it's a tough business.

Yeah. Unless you write about hockey and you put it out for, Christmas. Yeah, well, I know architecture, which is funny because these lovely people actually paid me in advance and promised a lot of promotion. And anyway, the fiction book is called Falcone's Tractor. It's funny because much of the plot came to me in a dream. And so I woke up thinking like, now I got to learn about tractors because there was a tractor as a main image in the book. And I knew nothing about tractors. So I remember telling my wife, Chantelle, like, so I just had this dream. I talked it into my phone. I basically talked into my phone for 15 minutes so I wouldn't forget it. And I said,

now I've got to go to the reference library and learn about tractors because I need to know a fair bit about them because it's a pivotal point in the book. Right. And then we happen to know somebody whose dad had a tractors. We went to their farm and he showed me how to drive one. Anyway, it's a story about Italian immigrants on Spadina starting in the 30s and going up to like the 80s, I think. And it was fun to write. I'm happy it was published. But my real real love is science fiction and I have written three science fiction books since and I cannot get the attention of anybody. And I'm not saying I'm the greatest writer alive, but you would think that a guy that writes

for the globe and has kind of a built-in audience, you'd think somebody would have said, let's take a chance on this kid. And I can't, I really can't get any notice. I can't get an agent. I can't get a publisher. But I think because science fiction is a very niche market and especially in Canada. So, what are you going to do? Well, I'll tell you what.

maybe somebody's listening who wants to have a chat with you about these books. You never know. Okay. So, you know, I know exactly where I want to go, but I do want to just give you a book. So I have your book here, and we're going to talk about Hidden Toronto, because I love it so much. But you have a book on the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. They play at Christy Pitts. This is the CBL team.

And I, assuming the air quality is such that they don't postpone this game, I will be at Christy Pitts with my third-born. to watch the Leafs play tomorrow night. Do you know that of all sports, baseball is the only one that ever got my attention, and it's the only one that I follow, and I know all the RBIs and what they mean, and I know the percentages, and I know why the manager is putting one guy

into pinch hit for the other guy, and if you put me at a football game, I would just see a lot of guys running around. Okay, so baseball caught your attention. As a very young kid, I was following the Jays when, like, Damoso Garcia, And all those guys were playing in the early 80s. And I mean, I actually lost interest by the time they won the first.

92. No, but they weren't 85, I think. 85, the drive of 85. I was kind of in high school and worrying about chicks at that point and listening to New Wave music. But then, of course, I came back to them when they won the double world series. But anyway, I know baseball backwards and forwards. I love it. And this is amazing.

The current manager is a member of the 1993. World Series champion Blue Jays. So Rob Butler. No way. From East York is the manager that in his brother Rich, who's also in East York legend who played for the Blue Jays, is a coach on that team. See, I didn't know that,

and I'm sorry that I didn't know that, and now I want to meet him. Well, I can introduce you tomorrow night. Come by, Christy Pitts. I'll introduce you to Rob and Rich Butler. Amazing. There you go. Okay, also, I just want to say a big thank you to Nick Iienes.

He's got a podcast called Building Toronto Skyline. I know you wrote about the CN Tower. We had an iron worker who was up there 50 plus years ago, finishing up the CN Tower on Building Toronto Skyline, and I highly recommend that show. And speaking of shows, I recommend, I just yesterday recorded with Brad Jones, a fresh episode of his podcast, Life's Undertaking.

So shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. And here's a piece of advice for you before we get to Hidden Toronto, and I have to ask you about some ink I see on your arm before that. But recycle myelectronics.ca is where you go, Dave. If you have old cables, old electronics, old devices, maybe they're piling up in a closet or a drawer or something, don't throw them in the garbage.

Those chemicals will end up in our landfill. Go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Put in your postal code and find out where you can drop that off to be properly recycled. Wow. You taking notes over there, Dave. You're memorizing this. I recorded it. Don't worry.

You can listen back later. Okay. So when did you get the tattoo I see on your right arm? It is our city hall. It was much more colorful in 2013 when I got it. It had like an orange sort of an energy burst. It's, I don't know how it's faded. So coloring fades? I've never had a tattoo. I didn't know how that worked. Maybe I didn't get the best quality. Then there was a little banner on the bottom like a comic book that said, meanwhile, in Toronto. You can barely read it now. And there was some blue in the windows. Anyway, all that to say, it's been a number. of years and I did it because I'd been writing 10 years at the globe. It's the most important building to me and I think to the city. And I was actually hosting a TV show that nobody saw at the time and we were doing an episode on tattoos. And so I had thought about it anyway. So they're

like, you want to get a tattoo? Well, then we can film you getting a tattoo. That's the push you needed. Yeah. And so that's, I did it and there was a, you know, a, what do you call it, a jib and a thing and the camera on the rails, you know? All that stuff like filming. the poor girl tattooing me. What show was this? It was called Where Cool came from. Okay, because I was reading about it, but I did not remember it. Where did it air? Well, okay. I don't want to make fun of the production company that put it together, but they got the money based on a new Canada Media Fund for web shows, because I think this is around 2013. Everybody was a, the web was the future for TV. So they got the money to make it as a web

show. But then they thought, okay, we're going to be clever about this. We're going to make each web episode about seven minutes. And we'll do three episodes on one topic. And then we can put them together and it'll be 21 minutes. So, and then we can sell it to a big American broadcaster. So that was the idea. They never sold it to a big American broadcaster. So what happened was and so, and it was the history of a cool thing. So if it was tattoos, we'd talk about when tattoos were only on prisoners and then how they became cool. Or sailors. Or sailors, right? And how they became cool and what would maybe the future of them be. And, you know, we had a guy getting one removed on the show. We talked to like some super duper famous tattoo people that were on those tattoo reality

shows. I don't know. Anyway. Trondis Barker? I'm trying to think of... Yeah. And then we did another show on like coffee. And so we talked about coffee shops in the 1600s and it's where political battles were fought. And then New York and the beatniks and the coffee houses. And we actually went to New York. And then we talked and then we had me learn how to make an espresso from a master espresso maker. I dig it. It was a good show. It really was. It was well written. It was fun. I was the host. You wore the hat? I did. And I thought, you know, I'm going to be a TV guy. But, so they did these things. They put them together. And we did, we actually did a season two. I don't know how we got away with that. But so we, we would do the web episodes and then we put them

together. And then they were aired on this channel called I channel, which I don't believe it exists anymore. And this was a information channel that you would get if you bought with your cable package, if you bought the extra CNN, 2, 3, 4 plus a few other news channels, I channel would be thrown in with it. And it was a Canadian channel. And so it did actually air on television and again to an audience of 200. And then it was sold finally, not to the US, but it was sold to Discovery, Central and South America. And so it did air in about 20, episodes that we made. It did air down there. And for a while, on Facebook, I was getting gay guys from Belize and other countries saying how handsome I was and trying to pick me up.

Lucky man. So I knew that it was being aired down there because I got the odd fan mail from a gay man trying to pick me up, which is fine. And that's, but just I don't go that way. But it's flattering. It was very flattering. And then after a while, I had to kind of block some people. Well, you know, everything's flattering to a point and then it becomes stalking. Yeah. Well, thank God they were, you know, a continent away. But in any case, that was, why did we bring that up? Well, you mentioned the TV show with the tattoo. Because that's why you got the tattoo.

Okay. So let's now, look, let's, because I, you're so easy to talk to. And I think there's a lot of meat on these bones, okay? I'm not trying to pick you up. I'm just saying there's lots to talk about here. So hidden Toronto, again, we're not going to read the book. But I did pick out a few, like just a few interesting spots. What caught your eye?

Okay. So here's what's interesting to me. Well, there's lots interesting in this book. I could talk about the whole thing. But it just so happens. We're recording this on Thursday, so I'll drop this on July 16th. But on Monday, we mentioned Jeremy Hopkins,

who was here Monday, this Monday he was here, to go off on AI slop. We're sick of AI slop pretending to be Toronto history when it's all fake. Yeah. Like, we're sick of it. I don't know. I'm sure you're sick of it as a Toronto historian yourself here.

But next Monday, I'm going to pack up this studio, put it in a bike trailer, and bike it to the C&E grounds because we're recording live from Scatting Cabin. Oh, yeah. So I thought maybe a moment because the section on buildings, I mean, I went to UFT, I see Robards Library and we talk about the city halls, and you mentioned the most important building that's on your arm there, the new city hall.

But maybe, would you maybe a moment tell us a little bit about scatting cabin? Well, it is the oldest standing building in Toronto. 1790, help me, six. Well, you know what? I don't know yet, because I haven't recorded the episode with the experts yet. That's Monday. Well, it is definitely the 1700s. Right.

And it had been, it was moved there from Broadview near, let me think, just north of Queen maybe. And it was moved there quite a while. ago. It was moved there, I think, for the first, for the first C&E, which would have been 1879. Yeah. Boy, I should have done some homework here. Well, you didn't know what I was going to ask you because we, I'm not like that guy you won't name who, you know, you know, forces things from his, his guests, his testimony. Well, anyway, it is the oldest building. And the, the wonderful thing is, is when you go in there,

um, you, you immediately realize people were shorter because this. The ceilings are so low. Okay, because I'm not a tall man. So that's good. And then you also notice, if you're a keen observer of things, you will notice some of the logs have a year written on them because when they replace a log, they have to put what year. And it looks like I think about 1984 or something was a pretty bad year for rotting logs because there's a lot of 1984 logs.

I'm going to celebrate the sesquicentennial. Oh, maybe. But it might be 82, by the way. Okay. I won't hold you to it. In any case, it's really neat. It's right down there by the giant wind turbine. and a lot of people don't see it because they don't venture south that way.

It's actually hard by the expressway, which is kind of funny because you're seeing all this modern stuff. And then there's literally this pioneer cabin. And it's run by these, I think they're called the Friends of York pioneers or something. There's this weird little organization that has only a few members and they're so passionate to teach people about Mr. Skadding and his cabin. Well, somebody from that organization will pop on my third mic that I'm going to set up in the Skatting cabins. and tell us more about this. They were begging me to join, so they might need members. Well, listen, I'm going to sign you up when I'm there on Monday.

You got to spend your time doing these things. But, okay, so scatting, and again, just quick hits here because we could do a half an hour on all of these things. But I did also notice Joy Oil, okay? So I remember, because I grew up in the west end of the city, I remember, I think it was Windermere and Lakeshore, I believe. It's still kind of in that area. Yeah, so but what I've noticed, what I bike by it almost every single day. In fact, when I looked at the photo you had with two cyclists going by, I've got on my readers and I, is that me? I thought it might be me, but I don't believe it is me here.

But I notice the fence is still around it, okay? So do you have any idea? I know something bugging you, like I do have Ed Keene in every quarter, but do you have any idea, are the fences permanent? Like, they're just going to be fences? Because they've been there for years. It's because, as far as I know, the city can't find a use for the building. which is complete like hogwash, if you ask me. You can sell tacos out of it or something.

Well, there's a snack bar, literally a stones throw from it. Like a pizza pizza or something is there too. Can you not find a vendor for a building, guys, where everyone's walking and looking for ice cream cones? Maybe it could be my studio. Like, I will record from the Joy Oil, which is, like you said, near Kashmir-Zowski Park as where, like, right about that part of the... I'll tell you, it was one of the earliest columns I wrote in 2004,

when I got the column. And at that point, the city had, I think they had just picked it up and they were moving it. And they had agreed to restore it. Yes. Because it was the last remaining joy oil. And there was about 17, 18 in the city. And if people don't know what we're talking about, it's like a little castle that was a gas station. So there's a part of it that has a garage.

And there's a part of it that had the office where you'd pay and you could buy a can of oil. and it was a Detroit company that had this chain of gas stations. And it's funny, when I was doing the research for the book, I looked back and you can almost see, you see, well, first of all, when they pulled out, and then they all became old coes and different kinds of gas stations. Right. But then you can see starting in the 80s,

the heritage people were starting to get concerned because, like, oh my God, there's only five of these left. And then a couple years later, Michael McClelland, who was then on the historic preservation board, who now runs a firm called ERA, which are great heritage people. Michael McClellan, in like 87 or something, is saying like, okay, we're down to three. Are we going to save these? And then you see an ad in the paper.

They're selling one. Like, do you want to buy this for a dollar if you can move it? And the city's like trying to figure out what to do with these. And then when there's the last one left. It's sitting there for quite a while. And that's the Windermere and Lakeshire one, right? That's the one, the last one left. And then so the city finally said, I guess we should save one of these things.

And then they did save it. They actually spent some money. They moved it to where we're talking about. Right. Which is right on the path where people walk and bicycle. And then they're... The Mardi Goodman Trail. Yeah.

And then I don't know what happened, but they put a fence around it so people wouldn't vandalize it. And then they didn't find a vendor. And then this is now 20... It's been, yeah, literally... 20 years. 20 years of a chain link fence around this thing. I'm at the point where I think I've said this on these mics before, but like, I'd rather,

I hate to say it, but... I'm going to ask you about another West End fixture I bike by all the time. But I'd rather just let it be vandalized. I don't know what, I'm not saying vandalize it, but it's that being behind the chain link fence to me bugs me for so long. It's bizarre. It bugs me.

And it's like, again, you have a potential moneymaker. The city's always crying poverty. Right. I mean, you know, rent it out to somebody.

Like, you know, but when it comes to like vendors along the, the water there, there's a weird history there. You know, but heard about that. East End one where it's like this guy's locked in for this certain amount of time.

But the Ash Ridge's Bay Area. Okay. And there's this guy who he's got the contract to run the only restaurant that's allowed. And it's like, and he's got a 20 or 30 year contract. And I'm like, is that weird, you know, is that, those weird machinations happening there? And they can't find a vendor for weird legal reasons or something. Like, what else is the reason? Like, I don't know.

And I wish. Yeah, sunny sides right there. There's a restaurant behind that. I know. But, yeah. I don't know. So, okay. So, but it is, that it, I was seeing the photo, I wondered if I was biking by, but then I saw

the chain link fence and remembered how angry it makes me that it's been there for, for, me too. So on the live stream, I already shouted out a gentleman's question, but Rob Pruse is there. He is a keyboardist extraordinaire. From the spoons? From the spoons. Okay. So he says, I can't wait to read Dave's book.

Hey, ask him if he ever found a keyboard player for his 1980s band. We actually talked I've never met Rob in person But we became Facebook friends And I was a Spoons fan by the way I saw them when they were playing high schools In 84, 5, 6 And so I was tickled pink

But he's such a nice guy You know if you want to meet him I'm going to go dig up my calendar But he's here When is he here? He's here for toast Oh we have to do it I'm going camping next week

But we're doing it Sunday morning I'm talking about July 26 So we literally toast for breakfast. So you can drop by here Sunday morning and meet Rob Proust. I have met Sandy Horn if it's any consolation. I think possibly my first crush. Oh, well, we all loved her. I remember I share that with many. We were at high school in Scarborough and we were in our best new wave gear and we were grabbing at her ankles and she was very annoyed. We're just trying to touch her. And all we could

reach was the ankles. Well, that is creepy. Okay. Leave her ankles alone. Can I respond to Rob though? Of course. We did find a keyboard player. He's pretty good. Not Rob Proust good. Well, no one is. And unfortunately, we were building momentum. We were gathering steam. We were playing gigs.

We were getting a lot of people out. And our damn keyboard player got cancer. He's alive. But he's currently undergoing treatment. And we've been on hiatus since May. And I don't think we'll be back at it until September. And I am dying to play again. Okay.

Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. Dave's dying to play again. Okay. And if Rob wants to sub in, Well, you know, another great, Rob would be great, but another great keyboard is to kind of ties into important Toronto buildings, if you will, is Jason Snyderman.

He, uh, son of Sam. I was going to say. Son of Sam. He's a great. I see him, I saw him recently at the Elma Combo, another building that's in your book, where I actually headlined in May, but enough about that, you know. But, uh, he's keyboardist for chalk circle right now.

Oh, he wasn't originally. No, definitely not. No, he was in. Blue Peter. Originally? Yeah. I believe Snyderman. I have the Google this quick.

I believe Snyderman with Chris Wardman. I believe he's the original keyboardist for Blue Peter. You know, we had this current band I'm in. We only play UK New Wave and Post Punk. But, you know, the other day I heard Don't Walk Past. And I thought, man, would that be a good song to play? It's so good. And I thought, like, should we break the rule?

We do play an Australian band. song. We play... Sklid ends. No, the church under the Milky Way. Okay. But anyway, I just thought like a Blue Peter song would be great because it's not, you know, it's not as well known as the spoons because you wouldn't want to pull out romantic traffic, let's say.

But imagine playing Don't Walk Pass. That would bring a lot of memories back. I love it. I love all of this. Okay, quick hits again. We're in New Toronto, which is right beside Mighty Mimico. And as I bike Lakeshore in Mimico, I always see these like old apartment buildings. and I see the signage, and I see, for example, the El Dorado.

And it was great to see your write-up about these really old vintage signs on these apartment complexes on Lakeshore and Mimico. I like to sort of compare them to motels in a way, because motels had a very generic look. But the motel owner, I guess early on, realized that if I need to brand myself and be different than all the other motels who kind of look like me along this strip, I better come up with, I guess, a color scale,

scheme and a cool name. And if that name conveys a theme, like if it's tropical or whatever, I could put out a fake palm tree in front. But, but a lot of these apartment buildings from the 50s and 60s had a fairly generic look. So what I like to see is like, well, how did they then go and try and brand themselves? The Shangri-La or the, you know, the El Dorado or, you know, sometimes it was kind of simple, like Lakeview. But I always think it's kind of fun because at least you could identify the building without the street address. You could say, oh, I live in the, you know, sunset towers and that sounds kind of romantic, you know. Right.

So things like that. And I like that. I like when utilitarian architecture kind of tries to put on a suit, you know, and be something it isn't, right? Yeah. Well, you mentioned this term earlier and I was reading it. I didn't know the name of these things. I just would see them on the streets of Toronto, but terazzo aprons, am I saying that,

right? Well, Tarazzo. Tarazzo, I really butcher that one. That's okay. Like Tarazzo is a type of flooring, right? It's all of those little stones in a sort of a binder, and that's polished really quite nicely. And tarasso floors go back centuries, but I think that the modern version of tarasso maybe goes back to 18 something. But at some point, somebody decided to make their store logo and set it into Tarazzo.

So usually you've got like the letters are traced out. then it's a different color of tarasso and it's often it's in a script that's very descriptive of the time so if it's 1935 the script looks very art deco and if it's 1955 it starts to get that loose kind of 50s kind of casual look to it and so um i was always noticing these things and and i would go to old neighborhoods like the junction or um weston or along uh lakeshore here that one of the ones that made the cover of the book is this DW. Yeah, that's the one that I see all the time, the DW one. So I, like, do you know what DW stands for?

Only because I read in your book. It's Danforth wines, but I didn't know that. Which was on the Danforth, and this was like a satellite building where they would bring the wines to get it to you West End people. And so I love, I actually, like, one of the first columns I ever wrote was I, I think I photographed about six or seven of these. And then I went to, back then you had to go to the reference library and pulled out these things called the Mites Directory, which are city directories, not a phone book, but more

information than a phone book, then you could find the address and you'd say, oh, D.W. at this address, oh, Danforth Wines Incorporated, and you could find out kind of when it was built by the first time it appeared in a Mites directory, and then when it left. So I could find out these mini histories of buildings just by looking up these names. And I remember Dune's Cafe on Bloor Street West had a famous one that's now covered over and it was called Kaplan's. And it was there for years. Like I was a kid hanging on Bloor West in the 80s and I'd see that and I never knew what it was. And then of course, as the Arcturist, I went and found out that Kaplans was a menswear store. And of course, that was long gone. But, you know, Dune's had been a menswear store. Is that

interesting? I don't know. It was interesting to me. No, I think it's interesting to most people listening to us right now. Another thing I found very interesting because I did notice it, but they didn't clued, oh, this is unusual. But in some parts, you'd see old street signs, like literally affixed to homes, right? Yes. Like, and what I thought, this picture you have with, like, a typo, like Boulevard was B-V-L-L-D instead of B-L-V-D. Oh, yeah. I think that really was a typo. Yeah. Like, a literal typo, yeah. Yeah. Well, and I remember explaining this to a pretty young person, like somebody who was 25 or 6, because they, they were looking at the book with me, and I said, well, they said, like, that's amazing. Like,

why I now know why those were so small and attached to the tops of buildings. Like, because I was always seeing them and confused. I'm like, well, it makes sense, doesn't it? And,

and what he had learned is that if you're in a horse and buggy, you're sitting much higher off the road. This is like 1880, let's say, when a lot of our housing stock was built, a lot of Victorian housing. Well, it couldn't be anything but Victorian housing because Queen Victoria was on the throne.

Right. Anyway, so, um, so yeah, you're sitting higher up. You actually are moving much slower. So the sign can be much smaller and the font can be much smaller.

And, you know, you're at a leisurely pace. You're like, you can look up and take in the sign. And then you can see signs evolve because then when you're in an automobile, they have to be lower. They have to be larger. Until finally we get to the 60s when everything was like electric and beautiful and psychedelic baby. And we got the lit sign boxes that looked like tiny, you know,

the telephone booth that was all lit up. that was very architectural. We got these little mini boxes of a piece of plexiglass lit up by conventional light bulbs. You know, yellow was to signify east-west streets and blue was north-south streets. And the font was now very, very rational and very, you know, 60s. And then those kind of died out by the 90s. And I was finding, like, the last ones. And then, of course, you know, we have the acorn signs from the 30s, those white ones with the

horn on top. I mean, in a way, you can kind of see civilization change based on street signs and how we needed to see them and the ways in which we had to see them. Well, that is hidden Toronto, right? Like, you kind of have to pay attention, right? And sometimes when you're just driving everywhere, you might not notice these things, but if you go for a nice walk or a bike ride, you actually can start to see these pieces of hidden Toronto that you celebrate in your book. And somebody tip me off, I must say, when I was, I was waxing poetic about these, these up ones because I really like them, the 60s ones. And it's a friend of mine, and she said, there's a neighborhood north of Toronto that's completely full of them, but it's a, it's a suburban

neighborhood. I'm like, really? And so I went up, took pictures for the book. And I, and then I looked, I looked it up, I looked up the neighborhood to see when it was built, and I'll be damned if it wasn't a neighborhood of Alcan homes, meaning aluminum company of Canada. So steel, you know, steel studs, no, no wood. This is the, and it. And it was. And it. was about a year before Toronto started using these light box signs. And I, I mean, it's a theory,

but I'm thinking like Alcan, their aluminum company, they're making these signs, they're lighting them up, the city sees them. A year later, we're rolling out in the city of Toronto. And I guess who probably got the contract,

Alcan would be my guess. Well, I think you're connecting the dots, Steve. Yeah, maybe. Wow, okay,

follow the money. Here in Atobico, I've always noticed this, particularly on Islington. First home I ever bought was near Islington, Norseman. It's a fun fact. And I always noticed I call them the fake homes. Like these are like they're disguised as homes, but they're actually substations.

Yes. Like is that throughout the city or is it primarily an atobico thing? Like why do I always see these things like on Islington for example? Okay. They are to the best of my knowledge. They're not used in every city. I will say that Toronto, it's probably not unique, but we did from about the let's say the 30s until the 70s, we disguised the little mini substations in neighborhoods

with fake houses that had three sides. They had a front door. They had shutters on the window. They had a roof. The only crazy thing is that, you know, if you went too close, you saw this like warning sign on the front door that you're going to be electrocuted if you try and sell

your Girl Guide cookies there. Right. Right. But because some of the oldest ones I found were in Leaside from the 30s. Okay. Then I found some cool, very space age 60s ones in North York. There's some in Guildwood Village in Scarborough, which are kind of late 60s, kind of like that late 60s mansard roof kind of look housed to them.

And then they kind of stopped doing it and they would disguise them in other ways, like utilitarian brick buildings with glass block like in the 80s. And I think that before that, like let's say the 20s, I guess they just weren't enough substations to bother. but I do remember going out with a guy from Toronto Hydro and he took me inside so you could see all these pulsating machines and you know it's kind of freaky it's like suddenly you're backstage and you're seeing all the you know or how the sausage is made.

I'd be afraid. I know right because you're walking to this domestic looking little beautiful house and then you're like ah. And I remember him telling me that they didn't need as many so they would start this is in 2004 or 5 I wrote this. And he said, you know, eventually in the next 10, 20 years, we're going to be decommissioning a lot of these. So then for the book, I kind of started to trace it. And I found other people who were writing about them and how we had, I don't know, let's say we had 80 of them.

10 years later, we were down to like 60 and now we're down to 40. And so we are losing these things, actually. So again, it's a little piece of infrastructure history that I bet you in 20, 30 more years, we may have none. Well, thankfully, you documented it all in Hidden Toronto. And getting these in the libraries mean that hopefully that data's around for hundreds and hundreds of years. I hope so. That's the idea. One more building in West Toronto, I bike by, I want to ask you about the Oculus.

I mentioned it. No, I alluded to it because once in a while, it's kind of a perfect graffiti thing because it's this plain white. It's just saying, please, graffiti me. but then they clean it up and it's looking pretty good these days. Is it right now? Yes, looking good right now. I biked by the other day. But the Oculus, which I don't, I guess when I take, so the Humber River,

I was kayaking on the Humber River on Tuesday, but you take the waterfront trail of the Humber River, and then if you, I can't remember the names of these streets, a Stephen Drive, I believe, and your park lawn. And it's on your way up, I guess it's on your way up to Stephen Drive. That Humber Trail goes by the Oculus. So what the heck, was it just a washroom with a nice, fancy design? Yes. I had heard that it had been part of a golf course, but that's not true. There was a golf course. Then when the golf course became no more and it became a public trail, that's when they built a public washroom. And strangely enough, it was a public washroom that had some interesting, sophisticated design to it. The washroom building itself has been closed for a while, but this Oculus was basically a way to provide

shade and there was a patio underneath that's since been kind of compromised, but it's a basically a giant flying saucer on very slim poles with a giant circular cutout in the roof, which they call the Oculus now. I don't think it was called the Oculus in 1959. But you can go in there and clap and it kind of does some cool echoing and, you know, maybe you can look for Venus through the hole. There it is. Now they have put up like, what do you call it, the plaques or whatever?

whatever, that tell you both the history of the Oculus, that's in place now. Well, the story that's in the book is what happened when people started to notice. And the city, I think at the time people were noticing how cool in space age it looked, the city was threatening to take it down because it didn't want to, it was graffiti all over the place. It's just begging for it. The bathroom was locked up and or full of undesirables. I don't, in any case, there was kind of a quick grassroots effort to have, the city not only save it, but get some money to restore it.

Right. And then COVID happened, so it took a while. But there's a couple of people, key people in the book that you'll read about who, who really thought it was a neat piece of Toronto history to save. And it has been saved. And then trying to find uses for it, like concerts or, you know, book readings or poetry or whatever. Like, they don't have electricity, so it's got to be acoustic stuff.

But otherwise, I'd record live from the Oculus if I could plug in my board. You just need a little Honda generator, I suppose. Okay, well, let's make it happen. Hey, I would, look, Jeremy Hopkin, every quarter we look for an inch, we did it at like Casaloma, we're going to be a scatting cabin. Yeah. I would totally record from the Oculus. Well, make sure it's July or August.

You could come there if you're, your band, maybe, and yeah, it's July or August. We'd need more than a one Honda generator then. We'll see what you can do. Okay, again, so easy to talk to you. And I actually wanted to talk about something else on our way out, but maybe I'll just pick on really quickly, maybe just say that I did enjoy reading about the different bridges

because just the other day I'm riding over the Humber Bay Bridge for like the 100,000th time. And I was thinking about all these cool bridges you cross if you cycle this city enough or if you enjoy walking the city enough. And it's just cool to see all the different bridges we've got going on here. Yeah, and almost

like every different style from every different era from like, you know, metal zigzag, utilitarian ones that look like they should have had a real way going over them to sculptural beautiful ones. And I always like to think of this quote that he's a former dean of architecture at UFT. And his famous quote is Toronto is San Francisco upside down. And what he meant by that is that instead of all the massive hills, that we have massive valleys. So you have to, you navigate Toronto in the same way as San Francisco, but only to descend down

into all of the green valleys that we have. All these ravines and stuff. Yeah, and so we are a city of ravines, and so we need a lot of bridges. And many of them are pedestrian bridges, which actually can be more interesting because you don't have to do the same sort of infrastructure. They can be lighter looking and sort of sculptural.

So I guess I thought that it would be fun to just look at the city through these bridges. And some of them are even famously, what's the famous one near Rosedale, where, was it Farley Moet that used to walk it all the time? I don't know. Okay. It's in the book.

It's in the book. Hidden Toronto. Get it now. You mentioned a vintage furniture store. Where can we find this vintage furniture store that you're, is it your wife who runs it? She runs it and we own the building so we live above it. So now you know where I live. Oh, geez.

We're on the Danforth. I'm not from Belize, okay? We're on the Danforth between Coxwell and Woodbine. And the store is called Ethel, 20th, Century. living and it has been in business since about 1997, but we purchased it from the original owners in 2009. Wow. My wife is an ex-interior designer and we both met over our love of collecting 1950s and

60s mid-century modern furniture. Love it all. Love it all. Now on our way out, we're wrapping up here. I'm going to ask you about Irma Gertl. Oh, gee. I, you know, when I first invented Irma, I was keeping it separate from my globe identity because I thought, sillyly, that, you know, people will not take me seriously if they know that I do drag.

But then I decided at the age of 58, I don't care what people think. And if you think that what I have written in the globe is any different because I put on a dress and heels to take people on an architecture walk, which are becoming quite successful, I must say. She was born at an event completely unrelated to architecture about a year ago. It's in upstate New York. It's a Tiki event. There's a lot of cosplay and parties and drinking. It was done as a lark.

But the funny thing for me is, and I don't want to talk about my band again, but in addition to being a real bass player, I've always kind of felt like a bass player in life. Like I like being on the stage, but I like being adjacent to the lead singer. Like I don't want the eyes on me. And I've rejected far more public speaking engagements than I've accepted because I don't like public speaking. I just don't. But you're so good at it.

Well, I'm just talking to you now now, right? And seven million listeners. Okay, that's wonderful, but I don't see them. If they were in an auditorium staring at me, I'd be shaking in my boots, right? So at this event, I wasn't doing public speaking, but I went from being the bass player to being David Lee Roth. I was jumping around, having people come take pictures with me. I'm grabbing butts, you know, and not getting slapped.

Because drag queens can get away with a lot more than a regular person. And I wasn't even that draggy. I just kind of looked like a relatively pretty girl next door from the 60s, you know. In any case, we're driving home from this event. It's a six-hour drive away. And I'm thinking, how do I tell my wife I really enjoyed this? And I'm just going to tell her. She's like, honey, you saw how much fun I was having.

Yeah, I did. That was crazy. Well, what if I told you I wanted to do drag again? And she's like, are you gay? Because it's kind of a gay art form, right? And I said, no, are you a cross-dresser? I don't think so. I don't want to sit around the apartment looking like that.

But I did have this fulfillment of performing that I probably wanted to do all my life. And it just burst out of me. And she's like, well, what could you do with Irma? I think, because we had that name for the event. I said, well, the only thing I know was architecture. And so we're brainstorming. It's like, what if Irma became like a person that could help teach people about architecture? And so I tried YouTube videos for a while.

I didn't get a lot of traction. And then I thought, you know what? I need to actually put stilettos on the ground here. And so I've got to do walking tours. And I just started them in April. And they're becoming more and more successful. I'm getting more and more people. I'm getting younger people, which was the point.

Because my point is there's lots of old white guys talking to other old white guys about architecture. There's too many of us. I'm an old white guy almost. And I thought, like, you know, young people that are obsessed with RuPaul and all this kind of crazy stuff, people that like a gimmick, maybe they will respond if a drag queen's telling them about architecture and it has worked. And I'm going to keep doing it because I need people to know about Toronto's architectural history. And if that means putting on a dress, I will do it. You better work.

And it's fun. I'm having fun doing it. You talked about me getting off my motorcycle looking fun. Well, I'm having fun doing this. And you know what? you know what I can't imagine I can see maybe a little hesitation will people take me seriously as a writing in the globe and mail but I think in 2026 it makes you more it makes you more interesting more credible you're out there having fun you're getting the message across I honestly think it's like for you I think it's almost like assuming this persona like it allows you to bust loose being Irma you don't have to be you know Dave you can be Irma well Irma sounds so fun well that's the thing and on the tour I I'm using some sass. And when I think a building is stupid,

Irma says like, okay, these are these stupid heads that made this building that took away this heritage building. And Irma can say things that I wouldn't say. Right.

And I've got a friend actually that lives near us and he does weddings in drag. He performs weddings. And he was kind of like my drag mother to help me figure out what makeup to buy and stuff. I like that. And so he has a friend that said

that drag for a lot of people is masking to unmask. By putting on the mask, you are free. It's like an armor or a superhero costume, right? And that's what I found it does for me. So it's great. And again,

if I can get people that are 17, 19, 22 to come out on an architecture walk and with a bit of sass and silliness actually also provide them with real information, I think it's a win-win. So how do people learn about these walks and sign up for these walks? Well, irma girdle.com, it's pretty simple.

And there's a section on Irma's website that says walking tours and more. And I do them once a month. And if demand increases, we shall do more. Isn't that something? You're something. I'm serious. Listen, I do a lot of these, okay? Your episode 1934.

1834. Sorry, did I? No. Well, you told me it was 1834 at the beginning. And then we talked about Toronto becoming a city. Oh, you know what? I screwed up here completely. I wrote a note, 1834.

And we're 1934. And it's 1934. So I guess it was the celebration of the centennial. Okay, I, oh God, I can't even, I refuse to go back and edit this mistake. I needed to be seen by all. No, no, it's fine. And what happened in 1934 that we could talk about? You know what?

I don't even have that. Yes, we celebrated the centennial. Of Toronto, yeah. Right, we celebrated the centennial. Oh, my God. I lost 100 episodes there. My goodness. Okay.

But Dave, I got to tell you, loved it. You got the radio. Why did your radio career end as like a producer? Like you're not working at CFRB anymore. No, I was encouraged to retire when I turned 55 in 2024. Dave can't drive 55. Okay. So the radio career's over, but you had decades in radio.

You know, you're write for the Globe and Mail. You've got this new book hidden Toronto. You've got these sci-fi books waiting for a publisher. Oh, my God, you're right. You got Irma. You got Irma. should say. I got a vintage furniture store.

You got a vintage furniture store. Honestly, this won't be the last time we chat because I love this. I can't believe I touted episode in 1834 off the top. This is absolutely 1934, but I do have the lasagna for you, so don't leave about it. Dinner's taken care of tonight. Right. It's going to be frozen solid, though, so hopefully it thaws in time. And that beer is going home with you, and you got the book on Toronto Maple Leafs.

This is more than I ever bargained for. You didn't know you get this swag. The CBC doesn't give you this kind of swag. No, and I was on there, too. I'll bet. We gotta save it for the sequel. And that brings us to the end

of our 1934th show. It's definitely 1934, not 1834. I'll fix that one in post. Go to Torontomike.com for all your Toronto mic needs. And remind us,

is it irma girtle.com? It sure is. And Irma's IRMA. Yeah. And the TSA, the Toronto Society of Architects endorses Irma's walks. and you can find her on the TSA's website.

I'm all about Irma. My next time you come over, I want Irma. Irma needs a podcast. Irma needs two and a half hours to do her face. Well, you know what? We'll turn off the cameras for the next Irma. Much love to all who made this possible. Again, that is Great Lakes Brewery.

I loved how you opened this chat, telling us about 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard. Great building. It's great building, great brewery, great place to grab a pint. Palma Pasta. They got a new building, so there's no history to that building,

but they just built a new building for Palmer's Kitchen. They'll make history. They make delicious Italian food. That's for damn sure. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. I'll introduce you to the Butler Brothers. East York Legends. Nicainis.

Recycle MyElectronics.ca. And of course, Ridley Funeral Home had a different name, but they really have been in business at 14th in Lakeshore since 1921. Wow. So there's some history there as well. And they might be the last. family that lives on the premises of the funeral home in the city. Wow.

They've all sold out and now I think maybe Ridley Funeral Home. Last family-run funeral home where you live on the premises like in six feet under. Yeah, yeah. See you all. Tomorrow I'm dropping an episode with, you ready for this? Speaking of Personas, Mysterion, the Mind Reader. I know him. He's my next guest.

Wow. See you all. Then.