Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Dave Perkins: Toronto Mike'd #490

Episode Date: July 22, 2019

Mike enjoys several great stories from Dave Perkins, longtime sports columnist for the Toronto Star. Perk talks about Prime Time Sports with Bob McCown, chatting up Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer, his Blue Jays and Olympics memories, his former colleagues and much, much more.

Welcome to episode 490 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Propertyinthe6.com, Palma Pasta, Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair, StickerU.com, and Capadia LLP CPAs. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com, and joining me this week is former Toronto Star sports columnist, Dave Perkins. Welcome, Dave. Well, it's good to be here, so far. And then you're supposed to say, at this age, it's good to be anywhere. Right and then you're supposed to say at this age it's good to be anywhere right better to be seen than viewed right man on that note uh what are you up to

these days like what what what is uh dave perkins life like these days uh it's wonderful i don't have to do anything or be anywhere or i'm beholding to nothing and no one. So it's, it's terrific. It's, it's great. I love being unencumbered work-wise. So you're enjoying retirement? Very much so. I wish my golf game were better, but who doesn't? Do you still follow sports? Like maybe now that you're not working in sports media. Yeah, I watch all the time and particularly enjoy when games go to extra inning or overtime or something and I don't have to worry about a deadline. Man, how long has it been?

Like how long have you been retired now? Right now, six years basically. My last, well, it'll be six years yesterday because my last assignment was the 2013 British Open. Oh, yeah. Okay, be six years yesterday because my last assignment was the 2013 british open oh yeah okay so open championship happy yeah yeah when i actually asked hebsey this question recently i always called it the british open but they call it the open championship has it always been that way that's the button down name but uh yeah the the we neanderthals on this side of the pond would say british open to but to differentiate it from the U.S. Open or Canadian Open, whatever.

But it's all, you know, anybody who wins it doesn't care what you call it. Right, just, yeah, the winner's the winner. Now, there's someone on Twitter. I know you're not on Twitter. You've chosen to. No, I don't know enough lawyers to be on Twitter. You don't even have a burner account because you got these odd, you know, Stephen Brunt, for example, is not on Twitter.

But I feel like he's on Twitter, you know what I mean? He's just not there as Stephen Brunt. But you don't even have the burner accounts. I don't even know what that is. Okay. I try to be as illiterate about technology as I can be. Well, I saw you whip out your BlackBerry before the show. Yeah, that's right.

I'm Amish. Right. How long have you been rocking that model BlackBerry? Do you have any clue? This thing's old enough to vote. I don't know. So there's a tweet that came in from Stickhop. That's what he calls himself.

And it says, the night before Trump was elected, he called it. He's talking about you're the he. So you called it. Right. You said that Trump would be elected president. And then this guy, Stickhop, says no one else saw that coming. How were you so sure? So he's been aching to hear this answer.

How was I so sure? For months, I suspected he was going to win. And then the day before, I mean, this is goofy. I like to gamble. So I'm looking at the websites, the gambling websites, and I'm saying, Trump's too long a price. People are going to get this wrong. Then I watched television, and Hillary Clinton was flying around to college campuses with Bono and Bruce Springsteen and people. And there was a bunch of 18-year-olds, non-voters, at some college campus somewhere shrieking about Bruce or something ridiculous. And Hillary Clinton's out dancing with them.

And I thought, okay, that's got really a limited shelf life. And then I flipped channels and Trump was in Flint, Michigan, where they'd had a horrible water problem, horrible problem with the water. And Trump said, remember when we built the cars here and you couldn't drink the water in Mexico? Now they built the water in Mexico and you can't drink the water here. Which is, and 20,000 people got up and going, yeah, and they're fist pumping over there. I thought, this son of a bitch, he's on to something.

One of his people, isn't he? Because he's not smart enough to be on to it himself. But one of his people has been on to something. So I went out and heavily bet that he'd win all the northern swing states, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and Michigan and things, and he did and ended up winning. So it was strictly a handicapping guess. So you could argue, Dave Perkins, you might have been one of the few people

who actually benefited from the Trump win. You put some money on that. It's dirty money. It's the kind you don't really want. You got to donate that, right? You got to give that away. You can't enjoy that money. It's been given back, so don't worry.

Now, something interesting happened this weekend. And because you were in, and we'll get to this, like we'll go back and kind of go through your bio here. But you were in Toronto Sports Media for 40 years approximately? That's basically right, yeah. 1973, I wrote my first story for the Globe. The first piece I ever had in Toronto was in the Toronto Sun. Then I worked for the Globe and Mail for four and a half years.

Then I worked 36 years for the Star. Okay, so you would be the perfect guy to ask this question. Now, on Saturday, Scott MacArthur, who does Jay's talk on the Fan 590. I know Scott, yeah. And he was at TSN for a while. Sure. He came out as a proud gay man. I didn't know that.

Oh, yeah, because you're not on social media. Good for him, but good for, who cares? No, no, who cares is, I'm glad we're finally there,

who cares? But I was just curious if, is this the first time a Toronto sports media person, a male came out of the closet? I'm just curious.

I can't think of anyone else. I don't know. I never thought of it before. I know there was, I know some guys in the U.S. came out. Okay. Same thing. I kind of pay no attention. Right.

I don't care either way. No. It's his business, not mine. Completely, completely. Now, speaking of like Jay's Talk, former Jay's Talk host, Mike Wilner wanted me to ask you about being a major league official scorer yeah it was it was i did that for a couple years it was awful i hated it so which year is this uh 11 uh 12 first half of 10, 11 and 12. Why'd you hate it?

I just, no matter what you do, you're an idiot. You know, you're always wrong. And everybody's always phoning, complaining. And people who have a financial interest, the coaches, you know, players, player agents, everybody's phoning, complaining about stuff that ultimately who cares? You know what I mean? Like somebody drops a a ball is it a hit or an error well you'd kind of say well it looks like a hit to me or whatever or it looks like an error and immediately the phone rings and the other

goes what's wrong you you blah blah blah it's a thankless job well you know i didn't need 150 bucks a game that bad right Right. It was no fun. Yeah. So why bother? So you just like said, that's it for me. I'm retiring. So you were doing that while you were working at the Star? Yeah.

Well, I retired as a daily columnist in 2010. And then I had a deal with them for the next three years where i wrote uh i guess you call it freelance columns but i stayed on in a in a you know exclusive arrangement i think cox does that now i think i believe i believe he's got uh same kind of deal now yeah that's right okay and then okay that's i know roger lejoie he's always scoring i always see you know he's scoring games and stuff but but i well i you know as with all things i never say i'm right there wrong i just say that's the way i felt about it and forget it for for me if somebody else wants to do it go ahead drive on don't hurt yourself okay so this is a good time for me to give you some gifts because

you came all the way here and i really appreciate that and i can't wait to to dive in and we're done already no this is actually like just beginning this is all just happening okay that red box that beautiful red box that is a frozen meat lasagna frozen solid you're taking that home with you is that right palma pasta that's great to be asked it yeah i'm telling you uh you, I would say you tweet at me, but you're going to end up writing me an email. By the way, you asked me. I wrote you an email to invite you on. Right.

And I was so happy you agreed to, but you asked me how I got the email address. Did I tell you? Yeah. Oh, I did tell you. You said it was David Shaw. Okay. Because I was going to reveal it now.

I'll have to speak to security about that. Another guy who's retiring. This is his final month? Yeah, the whole Globe sports section is getting cleaned out this week, right? Yeah, they had all those. Robbie and Roy and Schultz. Yeah. Listen, whatever's happening in the newspapers, it breaks my heart.

So when I see this, it's just another brick in the wall. Is this, again, you've decided to sort of abstain from a lot of the digital stuff, but essentially that's the Pandora's box that opened. Okay, I guess I was at the right time because the majority of my career happened before, you know, the internet brought along this degree of incivility and the attack mode

that everything seems to feature. I remember I got a taste of it. When you look back, say, in 40 years, there was undeniably wonderful things that happened that nobody could ever be against. You know what I mean? And I said, one of those things was Mike Weir went in the Masters. And I thought, who would be unhappy about that?

What Canadian would be unhappy? I mean, Mike was kind of a popular guy, and everybody liked him, and everybody loved to see Canadians do well, and root, root, root for the home team and all that stuff. Right. And I can remember, you know, we're wins, everybody goes berserk, and the papers are full of stuff and everything. And I kind of get home, and I sit down at my computer,

and I start looking at the emails. And there's all kinds of emails from people, and they say, what's wrong with you? You were worried about a man hitting a ball with a stick, and don't you know children are starving in? And then fill in the blank, and away you go. And there's all these emails about what's wrong with you, there's all these social ills,

and you're writing about a guy hitting a ball. Like, what's wrong with you? And I just thought, wow, you can't please, you know what I mean? Like, you just can't do anything right. But back in the day, wouldn't that same person just have written a snail mail and stuck a stamp on it? Yeah, in the old days, they would have.

And I used to say, anybody who went to all the trouble to write a letter and call me a name and put a stamp on it and walk to the post office and mail it or mailbox, whatever, okay, they put some effort into this, so clearly they feel strongly about it right i will read it and then maybe and i'll probably just crumple it up and throw it away and have a laugh but i'll read it but but the the barrier to entry is so low but suddenly it became a uh you know somebody sitting at a at a keyboard round of whim will type words with k's in them and send them to you and threaten you and threaten

you and threaten your children and do all kinds of things. Did that ever happen? Like the actual threatening you and your children? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got, I used to get, you know, we know where your children go to school. Oh, wow.

Things like that. Yeah. Usually it was hockey fans. But did you ever tell the police or you just deleted? One time I had to get kind of security type people involved because it did look bad. Oh, wow. Yeah.

I mean, things get out of control. No, that's scary stuff, man. I got four kids. I think that's scary stuff. Sometimes it is. Yeah. Usually it's just ignorant stuff, you know. You know, we hope your family gets cancer,

that kind of stuff, you know, blah, blah, blah. And you just say, what is wrong with people? And it's just sports. That was the other thing. It's just sports. It's an escape, right? It's like movies, like any other entertainment. You like this team, you like that team, you like this.

Good, good, enjoy. But don't take it so berserk seriously. Wow. Okay. Well, don't take this lasagna so seriously. Like, enjoy this. Okay. So Palma Pasta, go to palmapasta.com if you want them to cater your events or you want

to see where they're located. They're in Mississauga and Oakville. I really do hope you try them on Skip the Dishes if you can't make it to one of their physical locations but thank you Palma Pasta for providing Perkins with a large meat lasagna. In retirement will you have the odd beverage? I certainly will.

Local craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. You're taking the six pack home with you. They're not too far from here but they make tasty craft beer and they'd love you to enjoy. Great Lakes Brewery. I will enjoy it. Enjoy. Stickers too, man.

I can't wait to find out if this makes it onto your bumper. I'm sure it will, but there's a Toronto Mike sticker and an assortment of stickers for you from StickerU.com. They're in Liberty Village. You can get custom stickers made. And yeah, StickerU.com if anybody wants to get a decal or a temporary tattoo or a sticker made up.

That's yours as well. All right. So it was worth the drive, right? Well, we'll see. We'll see how it goes. Okay. So what does the name Dave Pagan mean to you? Dave Pagan is the first guy I ever wrote a story about

that got printed in a Toronto newspaper. I was just turned 20 years old, and he was a Canadian from Nipawin, Saskatchewan. He went to Pittsburgh and New York Yankees. Excuse me. I recognized he was there, and I thought I was going to journalism school at the time, and I thought, gee, there'd be a good story for a Toronto paper,

and the Globe wasn't interested, and the Star wasn't interested, but the Toronto Sun was. They said, yeah, do a story, and we'll pay you $100. And I thought, $100? In those days, you could drive to New York, stay in a hotel, and drive home for $100, believe it or not. So I drove to New York. I got a press pass, went in.

This is the old, original Yankee Stadium. Went in, spent a couple of days there, talked to all kinds of people, got invited into the press room to sit and drink where I sat beside Whitey Ford. Wow. And Yogi Berra and all kinds of people while they sat there and drank and told stories.

And I just sat there with my mouth open going, wow, what a world this is and you were only 20 yeah i just turned 20 and uh and i thought man this is this is good stuff you get to hang out with these guys and and have a drink and uh and listen to all this stuff and so anyway so i came home wrote the story this unprinted it and i went back to school and then i immediately got a job at the global mail while i was still in school and away we went i got a job because of richard nixon how okay tell me how how tricky dick got your game well it was it was at the height of Watergate. And I was working for the Ryersonian,

which is the Ryerson Daily newspaper, the student newspaper. And I was the editor-in-chief. And we had to write editorials every day. So, of course, at the height of Watergate, I'm going to do an editorial just shitting on Richard Nixon, because, of course, he's going to read it. So I had to go to the library in those days because I wasn't too clear on how things worked in the American system. There's the executive branch and the legislative branch and the judicial branch and blah, blah, blah.

So I went to an actual physical library and boned up on how it all worked and who could impeach whom and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. The checks and balances. Right. So that night I wrote my editorial, the dumping on Richard Nixon.

And, and then I beetled down to the Globe and Mail to work on the copy desk because I was on what they call a tryout. And, uh, and I happened to be on the foreign desk and reams and reams of Washington Post, New York Times copy would come in. It was on paper in those days.

And it was really difficult to understand it all, being a Canadian. And me, who had three hours before been boning up on this, I said to the editor, I said, well, I understand all that shit. Give it to me. I'll put together the, you know, cut and paste the story.

And I did. And the next day, the managing editor came over and said, well, that's a good story we had on that. Who put that together? And they all pointed at me, this, you know, 20-year-old kid in a T-shirt. And, well, you come in and handle all the Watergate copy. So I went in and handled all the Watergate copy for a while. And then I was a big sports fan,

and there was a terrible mistake in the sports pages one day in a headline. And a first edition would come up, and everybody would go for lunch, but I didn't have any money. I couldn't go for lunch. I would have a cheese sandwich or something.'d be sitting at the at the copy desk and i'm kind of the only guy in the newsroom sitting there eating my cheese sandwich yeah and the first edition comes up and there's this bad headline in the sports department and i didn't even know where the sports department was but i went oh man i better fix this and uh

so i go trundling down to the look around where's the sports section down the hall blah blah so when i went there's it's like hollywood sports editors with jim vipon and he's sitting there with his feet up in the desk smoking a cigar and i said excuse me but i think there's a bad headline here, blah, blah, blah. And he jumps up and he goes, Jesus H. Christ, what the? And he's, boom, he's gone. And I thought, what have I done wrong? Like he's mad at me. So I beetled back to the news desk and I ate my sandwich

and I tried to get as small as I could and get it. So about a half hour later, he come out and he's looking around and he comes over to me and says, are you the kid who, I said, I'm sorry, you know. And he and he says no no you that was a bad one we we we were able to get it fixed only a couple of thousand papers went out blah blah blah who are you he says i said well i'm blah blah blah and he said uh he said do you know anything about sports i said well i yeah a little bit and he says well he said i needed this guy this weekend can you work for me i said sure that was it 40 40 years later i retired i'm still stuck on the fact

that the globe and nail has like a 20 year old kid kind of responsible for all the watergate copy the watergate what may be the the biggest you know story yeah well I, like I say, I kind of pretended that I understood this stuff. Fake it till you make it. Well, I guess that's a good way of putting it. I mean, amazing initiative too. The whole Pagan, Dave Pagan story. Do you remember anything about that game in July

73, the Dave Pagan? Well, the stupid thing was they played a double header against the Chicago White Sox, and a big old knuckleballer named Wilbur Wood started both games with a doubleheader for the White Sox that day. That's funny to think about, yeah. And it's the last time in baseball that it's happened.

Oh. And last year, I was watching a Blue Jay game, and something goofy happened, and Buck Martinez said, well, you know, there was a time once when Wilbur Woods started the blah, blah, blah. And I'd jump up and say, well, it was July the whatever, 1973, and I was there. Right.

Anyway, it's the last time it ever happened. So it's easy. And I think it's safe to say that'll never happen. Again, I don't even think we have those double headers at all anymore right once in a while but not uh not by choice no no and uh yeah it could only be a knuckleballer of course uh you could do that but amazing now uh now that we're kind of talking baseball here i'm actually going to play a question for you from milan from Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. And Milan, I should preface this by telling you, Milan's favorite player of all time is Tony Fernandez.

So here is Milan. Hey, Toronto Mike. It's Milan from Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. Hello, Mr. Perkins. Congratulations on your amazing career with the star. Really enjoyed your work on primetime as well. My question was wondering about your relationship with Tony Fernandez over the years, especially in light of the scathing article you wrote about him back in June of 1993, when Pat Gillick made that amazing deal, reacquiring him from the Mets. In the article, you called him Mr. Migraine, and I believe you also referred to him as Chicken. Your prediction turned out to be incorrect,

as he helped the Jays win the World Series that year. Do you still have a relationship with him? Thanks, Dave in Toronto. I haven't seen Tony in years. Oh, I ripped him. I wasn't a big Tony fan. Very, very ripped them. I wasn't a big Tony fan. Very, very good player, but we didn't get along.

It's funny, I ripped them that day, and the next day I went and stood by his locker, as I always did, whenever I would get into somebody, I'd go in the next day and stand there and just say, what do you got to say? And they seldom did it was usually the the second secondary stuff people would get mad at i hear somebody said you said this i said well no here's what i wrote read it blah blah blah so uh i've seen tony many times over the years we were always civil and that's about it but but I remember I'm thinking this was 19

oh yeah 93 like I say when you're right nobody ever remembers and when you're wrong nobody ever forgets right I'm surprised I mean I don't know I've never met Tony Fernandez but he seemed like he seemed I want to say mean, I don't know. I've never met Tony Fernandez, but he seemed like a, uh, he seemed,

I want to say universally liked. I don't know. Maybe I, I don't know him at all, but I'm just curious what it was that, uh, possibly it's just, you know,

he, he, he, he just wasn't the kind of, you know, I just never, we, we never got along for a number of reasons.

You can't get along with everybody, right? Right. It's just, uh, you know, once again, I never say it's, I'm right, we never got along for a number of reasons. You can't get along with everybody, right? Right. It's just, you know, once again, I never say it's, I'm right.

Everybody else is wrong. I just. Jerry Howarth was here. Like I want to say two months ago or something like that. And he just mentioned, cause Belon also had a question about Tony for, you know, he loves Tony.

So a lot of Tony questions, but Jerry mentioned that Tony is actually not doing very well. He needs a new kidney maybe? Yeah, I heard that, a kidney transplant. So, yeah, I mean, I hope Tony gets what he needs there and makes a full recovery. Now, coincidentally, today happens to be Dave Steeb's 62nd birthday. So Dave, if you're listening, happy birthday.

I mentioned this to Hebsey this morning, Mark Hebsey, and Hebsey went off about what a horrible person he was to cover. He couldn't stand covering him. Yeah, a lot of people couldn't. The greatest line I ever heard about Dave Steeb was, Steeb was one of the first guys to get a really, really big contract for the day. And he had an agent who worked on a great contract. And Steeb built, and this is, we're going back well over 30 years,

a $3 million home in Incline Village, California. It's on the shores of lake tahoe it's beautiful beautiful beautiful and i i won't say who said it but the line was he's the first guy in history he built a three million dollar home that doesn't have a guest room because because nobody would want to spend any time with him very clever it. It's a good line. Yes. So. He was, I still think, with all due respect to the late great Roy Halladay, I still think Steeb was the best pitcher they ever developed. You know, not by much, but I think he was, for my money anyway.

That's the debate, isn't it? Steeb versus Halladay for best starting pitcher in Blue Jays history. Now, you would know better than me, although I do remember the vast majority of Steeb's career, but not the early parts. But I give the edge to Halliday for what it's worth. Maybe there's some recency bias in my work. I mean, I understand it. I don't ever think that there's only one answer to every question.

Things like that are matters of opinion. They were both terrific, terrific pitchers. In a different time and in a different appreciation of statistical dominance, which we live in now, Steve would have won three Cy Youngs. You could maybe say a fourth if you really stretched it. But I think he won two definitely and probably three Cy Young's, all of which puts him in the Hall of Fame

or close to it. Just looking for you, now that you mentioned the name Roy Halladay, trying to decide, I think I'm going to let Brian Gerstein ask you a question because I believe this is on the topic of Mr. Halliday. So this is Brian Gerstein from propertyinthesix.com. Propertyinthesix.com

Hi Dave, Brian Gerstein here, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and private sponsor of Toronto Mike. here, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Mike. Lately, I've been doing lots of leases. Got two clients, condos, a young in Eglinton, one a townhouse in Richmond Hill. This Thursday, I will be listing a brand new suite, a Minto Westside at Baffirst and Front. Contact me for any rental or buy and sell needs you have at 416-873-0292. Dave, I was fortunate enough to be at St. Mary's to see Roy Halladay get honoured at the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame, and he gave a wonderful speech. Little did I know that this would be the last time he would be able to deliver one, as we all knew that Cooperstown was inevitable for him.

Dave, Roy has the 5th highest win percentage for any starter over the past 100 years at 65.9%. The Jays were also under. 500 during Roy's years with them. Are we even underestimating how great a pitcher he was? Well, I don't think so. First ballot Hall of Fame is no indication of any kind of underrating. I'm not really hung up on wins, losses, win percentage, things like that. It leads to things like we're talking about Steve, when you're Vukovic, won the Cy Young because he was 22 and something,

22 and 10 or whatever. And Steve was 17 and 9 with way better peripheral numbers. If you get hung up on wins, you know, I think wins are only a measure of overall long-term quality. It takes a hell of a pitcher to win 200, 250, 300 games. It takes a hell of a pitcher to lose 200 games too. You know, that's one of the things people forget. So wins, losses, I never got too hung up on it.

But as for Roy being underrated, I wouldn't say so. I wouldn't say any first ballot Hall of Famer ever got underrated on stuff. Jim Clancy's a guy I always remember as a guy. He lost a lot of games because he played for some awful teams, but I always thought Jim was a hell of a pitcher. Terrific pitcher, yeah. Very, very good pitcher they uh you know you look back on on the the fledgling you know baby steps blue jays and in around 1980 steve clancy you know louis leal

guys like that they had more pitchesers then than they do now. That's probably true. Yeah, Jim Clancy was a hell of a pitcher. And I tell you, Jim Clancy was a good guy too. And Jim Clancy wasn't an excuse maker. When he wasn't good enough, he'd sit there and say he wasn't. And he'd also, you know, be out having a cup of tea some mornings at 4 o'clock on days he pitched, and then go out and throw a, you know,

shutout. What kind of guy, because you covered his career with the Blue Jays, what kind of guy was Roy Halladay? I have really no idea. He was a very, very driven, determined athlete. And beyond that, there was no way to know. He certainly didn't let people like us in. He was very professional when you needed to talk to him

on a certain day about baseball matters. Great, no problem at all. But beyond that, he wasn't the kind of guy he'd go and play golf with. He wasn't the kind of guy he'd go sit and have a beer with. He wasn't that guy at all. So I couldn't tell you what kind of guy he was. But driven and determined as driven and determined as any baseball player I think I ever saw up close.

One more Roy Halladay question. This comes from Todd, and he wrote this yesterday, so that's important to the context here. But he wrote, hi, Mike. I do have a question for Dave Perkins. It's a bit of a sensitive one, but as a lifelong baseball guy, I have to ask, if Roy Halladay had not perished in the plane crash,

does Mr. Perkins think he would have been inducted to the Hall of Fame today? I think he would have been inducted in the to the hall of fame today uh he i think he would have been inducted i'm not sure he'd have been a first ballot hall of famer i think i think that uh now i've been a hall of fame voter for 23 24 years and and i know that things change every year there's a limit of 10 and occasionally some people will say i know this guy is making the cut off i'm not going to put a vote in for him this year because i'm i'm going for this guy and this guy and this guy so i'll just and and i think they're all going to make it this year so i I will put Halliday in next year kind of deal, or I will put Joe Blow in next year. Ballots are fluid.

I long ago made a rule to myself that once I voted for a guy, I was never not going to vote for him again, and I ended up having to break that rule because the one year I voted 13 guys, and I wanted 13 guys who were allowed 10 guys and i had to you know i wanted 13 guys who were allowed 10 and i had to bounce three guys and i was distressed personally distressed just to think that i had broken my own vow but but there was first year slam dunks that you cannot not vote for right and it's just sometimes a numbers game.

I think there's a possibility Roy would have got caught in the numbers game for a year or two. And none of that bothers me. It doesn't bother me that Robbie Alomar had to wait a couple of years. Robbie Alomar's a Hall of Famer. Yes, no, period. So there's no... It took DiMaggio three times to get in it none of

that matters anymore you're a hall of famer or you're not who is the one gentleman who's not in the hall of fame that you believe minnie minoso my favorite player as a kid minnie minoso Minnie Minoso, who was an absolute victim of, he was the number one tweener, in my opinion, who was caught between the demise of the Negro Leagues, where he started his career, and the acceptance of, you know, black players in the major leagues. I would never say there was a quota,

but, you know, well into the 1950s, there were several teams that did not have black players for whatever reasons. And certainly there were not many teams that had numerous black players. And Minnie Minosa was absolutely caught. When you look at his numbers and the way he played the game he is without doubt in my opinion the hall of famer wow you were all cocked and loaded with that answer too yeah well i've been i've been asked that many

times because you know somebody wants you to to throw a pity party for roger clemens and barry bonds both of whom i or pete rose or something like yeah i've always voted for clemens and Barry Bonds, both of whom I... Or Pete Rose or something like that. Yeah, I've always voted for Clemens and Bonds. And every year I, as a member of the baseball writers union, get blamed for keeping Pete Rose out of the Hall of Fame, even though Pete Rose has never been on a ballot. Right, he's ineligible. We have never been allowed to vote for Rose because he would have been voted in.

Because the people who run Major League Baseball have this thing about gambling and that's fine. They think gambling's far worse than drugs and that's fine. That's their opinion. And they never allowed Rose to be voted on because they knew

he'd have been voted in. Yeah, gambling's the third rail, guess uh yeah sure league baseball yeah exactly but anyway um now before i get too distant from milan's great question about tony fernandez uh mr migraine i love that by the way i need to tell everybody that remember the time sorry remember the time we didn't play remember the time but milan who's at fast time Watch and Jewelry Repair, they do quality watch and jewelry repairs. They've been doing it for almost 40 years. So pretty much almost your entire career

there at the paper. Now, if you wish to receive a 15% discount on any regular price watch battery installation, just go to a Fastime location and tell them you heard about them on Toronto Mic'd. If you just say that, Toronto Mic'd, you get the 15% off. Go to FastimeWatchRepair.com for a location near you. Their newest location is in Richmond Hill. So thanks, Milan, for that question. And when Milan wants to save money for his small business, he goes to Capadia LLP CPAs. Rupesh Capadia is the rock star accountant.

I urge everyone listening to get your complimentary 15-minute consultation with Rupesh. He sees beyond the numbers. And I'm going to just play a quick brief message from Rupesh Capadia, who helps fuel the real talk on Toronto Mic'd. Hey, hey, hey, this is Rupesh here. And today I wanted to call you up and let you know that we are all going to die. But there is a silver lining. The silver lining is if you are a corporation, you can ask your company to pay the life insurance on your behalf

and still get all the money out to your family on a tax-free basis. If you would like to know more, please contact Kapiti LLP, myself, Rupesh, or any of my associates, and we'll be happy to guide you through the process. Thank you. Thank you, Rupesh. Okay, Dave, back to back. Tell me, can you share any stories from the 1992 and 93 World Series champion Toronto Blue Jays? That must have been, was that fun to cover? Any stories would be. I love those teams. Fun to cover.

Fun is not the right word because it would start in spring training. You'd do 25, 30 games of spring training. Then you do 150 games in a regular season. And long before it gets to the short strokes, you're sick of them. They're sick of you. It's a grind. And then when it becomes apparent that

that the blue jays are going to be in a pennant race all the people the the editors who wouldn't know you know third base from from a hole in the ground start telling you how to cover the team right and that every year it would get like that it would just be you're an idiot. Clearly you're an idiot after 180 games. At this point, you need my help. And I'll never forget, it was an English guy, some English editor. He fancied himself a high sheriff. He comes boiling over to me one day in the office, and he says, your game stories, your stories are impenetrable.

And I said, what the hell are you talking about? He says, no one understands what you're talking about. And I said, what? What do you mean? The guy says, you use these terms that no one knows what you mean. I said, such as? He says, sacrifice fly. And I said, you're probably the only idiot in the city who doesn't know what a sacrifice fly is go away you know like right but

but you would you would kind of get this this you know they'd charge over and say we should do a story on so-and-so and you say well i well, I just wrote a 2,000-word feature on a guy last month. Do we really need to, you know? So anyway, you'd always get this kind of outside interference. Thank God there was no emails in those days, and nobody carried a cell phone. Right. So it wasn't fun because it would kind of be a grind at that point

because you're not only trying to do your job, now you're fending off the quote-unquote help from the backside. And it would get a little much, let's put it that way. Now, in 1992, when the Jays went to uh atlanta for the world series game now you don't have to give the exact number but approximately how many bodies would the toronto stars send to atlanta for a world series game featuring the jays uh i can't remember but i can tell you the first time they made the playoffs 1985 uh they sent 19 of us to kansas city for the playoff game because i was the coach i was the kind of coordinator and the coach and uh and we had photographers and dark

room guys and city columnists and sports columnists and sports writers. There were 19 people went for Kansas City Royals. I think in Atlanta there was probably, counting the photographers, and you needed kind of a darkroom guy to transmit. Things weren't quite as wonderful as they are now in terms of technology. I think there was 11 or 12 of us. Which is larger than today's

John Starr Sports Department. Oh, yeah, exactly. And the goofball thing was the first one that they won in 92, it was extra inning, night game, and of course, I think it ended around midnight but the the star had decided very cleverly i thought that they would hold the paper until there was a result of the ball game right and you know this cost them a lot of money to hold the paper in those days so like

it was you know 50 000 bucks an hour or something to have everybody all the trucks sitting there empty literally yeah hold the presses yeah and when they when the game went to extra innings of course they were on the phone saying when is this going to end and i would say you don't understand a whole lot do you but it ends when it ends so right when it did end, we had eight minutes. Seriously, we had eight minutes from the last out, which was Otis Nixon's butt, until off the floor. Yeah, Tim Linda Carter.

So essentially, I'm guessing at that point, you have it all written except for how the final act. You've seen Dave Winfield hit the double. Yeah, you're kind of going back and forth, back and forth. Eight minutes. Yeah, we had eight minutes total for everything. hit the double and you know you're kind of going back and forth back and forth on you know eight minutes yeah we had eight minutes total for everything and you know i i was the fastest guy in the room so that was never a problem for me i was i was i never took more than 20 minutes to a half hour to write a column so i knew i asked that question about how many bodies

were going because uh kevin mcgrran was in recently and I was asked, and he was giving me an idea of the number of people the star would send to these events. Yeah, it was amazing. And I would, so I shared the fact with Laura Armstrong, for example. Laura Armstrong currently is, she's covering the Jays for the Toronto Star. Yep. And yeah, and that number, as you can imagine,

somebody her age in that position would blow their mind. Yeah, of course. Everybody. Man. Because you mentioned the 85, drive of 85, the clincher there, I need to ask, what was your relationship like with this gentleman?

Hi, I'm George Bell. You listen to Toronto Mike. What kind, I'm George Bell. You're listening to Toronto Mike. What kind of guy was George Bell? George, my favorite player of all time. Terrific teammate. Nuts in a lot of ways. Very good ball player. A very good hitter.

He wasn't much of an outfielder as we as we all know but george was was a interesting guy to get along with because george would hit three home runs and you'd go to talk to him after game and he and he'd just give you the sailors farewell and he wouldn't talk other times he's chat you couldn't shut him up interesting Interesting. George was very, very inconsistent. But the thing I remember about, two things I remember about George both happened in New York. One time, Al Leiter was pitching for the Yankees and knocked him down with a fastball up around his head.

Things were different in those days. And George got up and he hit the next pitch, which I would say is the second longest home run I ever saw hit in New York. And, I mean, he absolutely crushed it up where they used to park the ambulance in the old Yankee Stadium. It was minimum 500 feet. Wow. But it was just, it was George's bleep you,

and he just hollered it later all the way around and afterwards he was pumped that was one george bell story yeah i mean you couldn't shut him up that night he he was just loaded wow and the other time was once again in new york they'd there'd always be a clubhouse attendance and these would just be kids local kids whose job it was to run and get mcdonald's for the guy for the guys or whatever. And they'd flip a $20 bill and say, keep the change, you know, this kind of stuff. Go for it, yeah.

Yeah, basically that was their job. And there was a young kid in New York, just a teenage kid, and he was always there in the Yankee visiting clubhouse. And one time the Jays were in, and George was in, and this kid come in and he'd been beat up. You could tell he was bleeding and black eye and he,

and he was in rough shape and he was upset and never, and George immediately, you know, he befriended the key. What happened? Well, I got mugged. I got the,

and George said, let's go. And George in his uniform wanted to go out and find the guys that beat this kid up wow and you know that was it i mean they'd inflamed george's kind of psyche and george was fired up and people had to say george george is okay we'll let security deal with this you just you know i mean that but that that immediately like, and this was a clubhouse kid. George didn't, this wasn't his relation. This wasn't someone he knew personally,

but George felt that this kid had been wronged, whatever, and George wanted to make it right. And I always thought about that. I thought, this guy's, you know, he was a great teammate. I'll tell you that much. He was a great teammate, and'll tell you that much. He was a great teammate. And he was one of those guys. And everybody says, oh, this doesn't happen.

But if you're down a run in the ninth inning with a guy in second base, George would find a way to dunk in some broken back base hit over second base to get the guy, get the time running. George was very good at stuff like that. Now, of course, everybody takes an enormous long swing, tries to hit a 480-foot home run. The idea of hitting behind a runner is completely foreign to everybody, but George was the kind of guy who would look at that and say, we've got to score that run.

Now, you almost used the C word, clutch, but you didn't use it. Yeah, well. Because a lot of people say that it doesn't exist. Nobody does it all the time. Right. But, God, it just seemed to me every time, you know, George was in that situation, he didn't come through every time, but it seemed he came through way more than other people did.

Of course, as a George Bell fan, I remember the drop kick on Bruce Keeson yeah it didn't take much to rev George up that's for sure awesome okay so is it true Dave that you once covered a fashion show yeah

yeah and at the Turin Olympics they had it was fashion week in Milan, which is, you know, their cities are 100 miles apart or something. And the star had a fashion writer. And somebody came up with the idea. I'm not sure. It might have been my idea.

But I said, tell you what, we've been at the Olympics a couple of weeks. We're getting sick of it. They're down to the, you know, you can only write so much about stuff. And I said, let's do a flip. I'll take the train to Milan and do the fashion show one day. And we get the fashion writer

to come over to the Olympics and we got him a credential and sent him to speed skating or something so he could review the orange Dutch uniforms. I forget what it was. But anyway, so I went to the fashion show, and it was just the greatest load of bullshit I ever saw in my life. It was insane. It was just a world I know nothing about.

insane. It was just a world I know nothing about. As I said, my idea of fashion would be to wear a brown necktie with your yellow teeth. But anyway, it was a great day. It was a fantastic experience to see all this nonsense. And there was three fashion shows in these tents within a couple hours. And all these people would be air kissing each other

and they're all dressed and making a big deal out of their arrivals and various limos and kissing each other. And then 40 minutes later, they'd be at another tent somewhere for another collection of, you know, and all the fashions. I mean, everybody looks like Ronald McDonald's wife. You know what I mean?

It's just ridiculous. Anyway, I wrote a tongue-in-cheek column, and it was fairly well-received, you know. No, it's fine. And I'm sure the fashion people are probably thinking the same thing about sports. Like, what a waste of time. Sure, and that's fine. That's no problem.

It was just something different for a day. And, you know, I'm a big opera guy, so being in Milan, I got to go and see La Scala. So that was good, too. Your culture, that's impressive. I wouldn't say that. How many Olympics did you cover? Ten. If you had to pick one highlight in those ten years,

what would you pick from your Olympic coverage? One highlight. Or what's the most impressive feat you covered? I will say this i saw fantastic fantastic things but i will i will say watching usain bolt go past me and i'm in a press seat, I will say about the 65-meter mark of the 100-meter dash. And so I'm about two-thirds of the way down the track. And maybe, we'll say, 40 feet from the track. So it's a terrific seat. And when Usain Bolt went past me, he was absolutely hitting a stride.

And I had never seen anything quite like that. When Usain Bolt went past me, he was absolutely hitting a stride. And I had never seen anything quite like that. And I know it's just guys running, and I've seen a million guys run and a million fast guys run, but just to watch the way he powered past this world-class field, kind of right in front of me right there, it was just like, wow. That was, I mean, i had a lot of wild moments in my in my career but that in terms of watching one specific event i guess i would put that at the top i mean it was terrific uh three olympics he won uh gold and every 100 meter and

200 that he participated in and i would i used to be able to say every four by 100 meter but they lost one because yeah one got dq'd or something but right that's just the bookkeeping i mean the you know what i mean like sometimes i think people get hung up on statistics numbers and everything i i think more of the the the moments that they that the great athletes provide and uh that one right there was as amazing as it gets. And like I said, I saw a million terrific things. Did you ever cover Muhammad Ali? No, I didn't.

I met Ali. I talked to Ali. But I never, that was after my, or he was, pardon me, before my time. I did a lot of boxing. I had interesting moments in boxing, but. Do you want to share your best boxing story? Best boxing story. And you're in a Hall of Fame?

Are you in a Hall of Fame for boxing? Where are you? Or some. No, no, no, no. Not yet? No, no, I never. I don't hold with that stuff. So the night that Tyson bit off Holly Field the year,

so I'm sitting there, and we're in, there's maybe 12 rows of press, and I'm in the 12th row. And the 13th row right behind me was my favorite actor of all time, Sidney Poitier. And beside him was Arnold Schwarzenegger, Maria, his wife. And beside them was Carrie Fisher

and Meg Ryan and a bunch a bunch of anyways all these celebrities but i'm half the night i'm spent around i'm talking to sydney poitier because he's my guy so anyway we're having a sydney was okay and i guess sydney's you know spend his whole life dealing with you know gushing idiots like me. And usually I'm not a gusher, but Sidney was, I'm quoting his lines back to him from movies. Anyway, and sitting beside me was a guy named Jim Morris from Canadian Press. Jimmy was a good guy, wire service guy, very fast.

So the fight goes. And it was early on, and fights always go about used to go about 11 o'clock at night and our deadline would be like 11 30 so you didn't have a lot of time so the fight's going you're kind of pounding out running copy during the during the you know the breaking rounds and everything and jimmy's pounding away i pounding away. And all of a sudden, Tyson bites off Hollyfield's ear. And we go, what just happened? He bit his ear. And we're going, we're trying to write this and watch and record it all.

And, you know, the thing replaces bedlam and then it calms down. And then he bites him again. And he gets DQ'd. And I look and I got like four minutes to write and file. And so I'm pounding, I'm typing, like I'm still not 100% sure what I saw. Right. Because I've never seen him before. I've never seen a guy bite somebody's ear off in a heavyweight championship fight. So we're pounding, and Jimmy's pounding away.

Jimmy Morris is pounding away. And this enormous head appears right between our shoulders, and it's Arnold Schwarzenegger. And he's looking at Jim Morris' computer screen as he writes. And in what I can only say is the Terminator voice, he says to him, you've got a typographical error, like this. And without missing a beat, Jimmy just, he doesn't even turn his head.

He says, fuck off, Arnold, we're on deadline. And Schwarzenegger disappears. So deadline comes, boom, hit the send, and Jimmy hits the send button. We're kind of going, holy Jesus, what happened? Like our blood pressure's about 400 over 200, and we're trying to kind of catch our breath, and yikes, what did this?

And Jimmy turns to me and says, did I just tell Arnold Schwarzenegger to fuck off? And I said, yes, you tell Arnold Schwartz and they're going to fuck off? And I said, yes, you did, Jim, and you're now a legend. But that was, I mean, that, like, there wasn't enough going on that particular moment, you know. Crazy stuff. But that, you know, I don't know. That was kind of one of my moments, seeing Sidney Ponchy.

That was, that rivals my other great kind of wild moments, you know. And I guess the biggest one was. Yeah, which one? 87 All-Star Game was in Oakland. Baseball All-Star Game was in Oakland. Baseball All-Star Game was in Oakland. And the Jays, I think, finished the first half of the season in Oakland. The Sunday game, the Jays were in Oakland. And so I'd been out there covering that, and they said,

well, just stay for the All-Star Game and blah, blah, blah. So on the Monday, they have what they call All-Star workout. And it's a whole lot of nothing. It's one of those things, just guys playing catch and you have to manufacture. The Home Run Derby and all that nonsense wasn't that big a deal then. So I was smoking in those days.

So I said to somebody, where's the cigarette room around here? And they said, well, up the stairs and down the hall and the second door on the right, there's a little. So I go, there's a little alcove about the size of your basement here where they store the Oakland A's equipment trunks. But it's where everybody goes to sneak a smoke. You sit in the trunk and sneak a smoke in this little room. So I'm sitting on the trunk and sneak a smoke in this little room.

So I'm sitting on the trunk, and I light one up, and I hear somebody coming down the hall, and walking around the corner, it's Joe DiMaggio. Wow, yeah. Just me and Joe DiMaggio in this little room. And Joe DiMaggio, he's patting himself down, comes up with a cigarette and says, you wouldn't have a light, would you?

And you're kind of saying, well, okay, Joe. You know, okay, if you need it. So you're kind of, so I'm sitting there having a 10-minute smoke and just shooting the breeze with Joe DiMaggio. Not fan and not newspaper guy interviewing him. Just two guys chatting. And all I can think of is, this guy was married to Marilyn Monroe.

But we're talking, and Joe said, where are you from, Toronto, blah, blah, blah. And Joe says, do you know my friend Shopsie, Sam Shopsiewicz? I said, no, but I ate know, I ate his corned beef, you know, back in the day. But it's funny, that was Joe's kind of link to Toronto was Shopsie. Well, I got another Shopsie story.

Yeah, tell me. It's nuts, but Shopsie was a man about town, and he ran the deli, and he was a man about town, and he ran the deli, and he was a blah, blah, blah. So they used to have at the Canadian National Exhibition, they used to have what they call a grandstand show. Yes. And they'd bring in big-name entertainers.

And there was a guy named Danny Kaye. He was kind of a song and dance guy in the 40s and 50s, a comedian, blah, blah, blah. Yes. And Danny Kaye was the headliner. And Shopsie, of course, knew Danny Kaye. So Danny Kaye was flying into what they called Malton Airport in those days.

And Shopsie had somehow got the message and said, I'll pick you up and drive you to your hotel. And Danny Kaye says, okay, great. So Shopsie goes out, you know, Gardner Expressway, there was no 401, nothing no 401 none of that stuff in those days so shopsy goes out picks up danny k at the airport and he's driving him down to the royal york where everybody stayed and he says to danny k danny if you don't mind i uh i just have to stop into the house and pick something up on the way danny says yeah you don't mind, I just have to stop into the house

and pick something up on the way. Danny says, yeah, I don't care. No problem. So Shopsie then drives to Casa Loma, parks in the driveway, says to Danny, you just sit here. I'll be right back. Runs into the lobby of Casa Loma, runs around for 30 seconds, runs back out, gets in the car, says, I just had to pick something up.

And away he goes. And, of course, Danny in the car, said, I just had to pick something up. So I went, and away he goes. And of course, Danny Kaye's going, this is where you live, like Castellano. It was just a... Oh, that's fantastic. It was just one of those moments. Hit me if you're best. I'm a lot to your real estate guy.

I will, Brian, if you're listening. Of course he is. Hit me with your best uh jack nicholas story well i i got a few jack nicholas stories and uh the first one of course is very off color but it's it's uh it's it's a good story um a 2000 us open at pebble beach the one Tiger won by a thousand shots, was Jack's last U.S. Open as a player. So he, and he missed the cut, but Jack would come into the press room, and Jack loved to come and sit in the press room and just shoot the breeze with the writers.

Loved to shoot the breeze. And so Jack's telling stories, and gradually everybody's drifting out, and people are saying to them, old-timers are saying to them, Jack, tell them about this, tell them about that. So Jack says, well, I'll tell you a story, you can't print it, but my first time at Augusta, I was 19, U.S. Amateur Champ, whatever,

and like all 19-year-olds, I knew everything about everything, and I said to the caddy, in those days, you had to use an Augusta caddy. You didn't bring an outside caddy. So they give Jack an Augusta caddy. And Jack says to the guy, listen, you can help me with the club and the bags and everything, but I read my own pots.

Caddy says, fine, whatever. So Nicholas says, six holes in, I'm cooked. I can't read these greens. They're like nothing I've ever seen before. Right. And I was running, Jack said, but I've insulted this guy. And so he finally gets, but they totally, he's looking at a putt, looking at a putt.

And he says to the caddie, partner, have a look at this for me, will you? I think it's two balls outside left. Big old caddie squats down. He says, nope, it's two balls outside right. And Jack says, two balls outside right. Are you positive? Caddy says, Mr. Jack, I ain't been positive but once in my life. First time I ever jerked off, I was positive I was going to do that again.

And Nicholas says, well, he stopped laughing. Of was positive I was going to do that again. And Nicholas says, but he stopped laughing. Of course, it was two balls outside right. I know it's a great story. It's a little off color. It's okay. Podcasting is good for that kind of thing. You can't tell that one on Procter & Spurs. No, no.

I tried, but I couldn't. You know, I. I tried, but I couldn't. But, you know, I have a Nicholas Response putter, all right? I used to be, like, a really good putter. I could play golf a little bit, not anymore, but I was a really good putter. And I've had a Nicholas Response, but the only putter I've used for more than 40 years now. And I bought it in, you know, he won the Masters in 86

and they hustled it out to the market for like $129. And I bought it in spring training of 87 in Dunedin, Florida in a golf shop. And at that point it had lost $100 worth of weight. It was in the $29 remainder bin. Nice. Still with the plastic. Right. And I thought, this looks good. And I've been using it forever. It was in the $29 remainder bin. Nice. Still with the plastic on. Right.

And I thought, this looks good. And I've been using it forever. It's great. So I'm at the World Golf Hall of Fame playing one time in a press event when they opened the Jack Nicklaus exhibit. They'd have a little morning golf for the press. And then we'd have lunch with Jack. And Jack would walk us around the exhibit, and everybody would write a story about how wonderful this was.

This was great. This was a little thing we always did. So we're out playing golf, and Jack's in a cart, and he's driving around from group to group. So we get late in the game, and Jack shows up, and I'm playing with Alex Masella, and I'm making every putt. I'm earning the money, and Alex is pissed up and i'm playing with alex macella and i'm winning uh making every putt

i'm winning the money and alex is pissed and he says jack he says this guy's using your response putter he says better than you ever did and nicholas laugh laugh laugh and nicholas comes over takes it out of my bag and he looks at it and he's and he's peering at it and i and he finally says nope that's not it and he puts it back in my bag i said jack what's that all about he says well he said uh my response putter that i won the masters with 86 says i don't know where it is he said i've lost it he says somebody's got it and so every time i see one of them i checked the serial number and i didn't even know

this thing had a serial right right right like it was down to one corner and there sure enough there it was and nicholas said no you like it and i said yeah at that point i've been using it for you know about 25 years yeah like at that point but uh jack was i would say the number one guy i ever had in a press room was Jack Nicklaus. He'd sit there as long as you wanted to sit. He'd answer your questions. Wow. He had a sense of humor.

Great guy. Just absolutely the best. Is he the best golfer you've ever covered? Well, I didn't cover him. Well, no, that's not true. He was still playing in the Masters when I started covering the Masters. And he wasn't the best. But I would say he's, you know, the numbers say he was certainly, you know, the best.

Tiger was the, you know, we talked earlier about Roy Halladay, a focused athlete. I'll say Tiger was the most focused athlete I ever saw. The mentally strongest athlete i ever saw without question before he hit the fire hydrant you know in his early days he just he made everybody else melt right and uh he was just unbelievably focused didn't make excuses he just when when something went wrong for him he just he could shuck it off better than anybody, or shrug it off, I should say, better than anybody I could think of. All right, I have a question.

Sit down. How did you get involved with primetime sports with Bob McCowan? Well, McCowan and I played in the same high school football team 54 years ago. 53 years ago. We went to the same high school. We played in the same football team. Which high school?

Do you want to shed it in? Winston Churchill and Scarborough. So we kind of knew each other back then, and then he was always, I'd see him at the ballparks. Remember, he was a PA guy for the Blue Jays, and then he'd be on. And then, I don't know, after I left, after I no longer was sports editor of the Star,

I became general columnist and started going to majors and Olympics and all kind of world championships. Big events. Super Bowls, yeah, yeah. All this kind of stuff. So eventually the producers of Primetime Sports would call me and say, can you go on for three minutes, talk about the British Open and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And Macau and I would, like I say, we always knew each other, so we'd get, they put me on. And then when I kind of retired, they started putting me on as a guy to go in the office or in the studio and sit there and tell stories and yak and blah, blah, blah. Sure. So that was it. Did you enjoy appearing on Primetime Sports? Yeah, it was fine.

It was never heavy lifting. As you can tell, I can just sit and talk. That's one thing I could do. So it was never a problem. I'm generally far more profane than I should be. So I kind of had to fight myself to stop from using the wrong kind of language on the radio. And I never did, actually. Hundreds of times I was on I never got caught

using naughty words when like approximately when was your final prime time appearance I haven't been on this year I'm completely retired now okay

in 2019 I think the only show I did was I did Tim and Sid on the Baseball Hall of Fame. Gotcha. But that's about it. Okay, now, have you had any contact with Bob since his final...

No, I have not. I have not. I guess it's all part of the, you know, the Rogers experiment with hockey. They're getting clobbered financially. So I think a lot of people who make money were getting whacked. Yeah, so Bob, yeah, I mean, it does seem like a cost-cutting maneuver. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, a lot of people got rented because they overpaid for hockey. Stephen Lewis writes in, so glad you got him. His primetime roundtable appearances, especially with Brunt, were sports nirvana for me. His book is really entertaining. You'd be surprised at his most memorable sports experience, and he'll have to tell you about his infamous Joe Carter experience. Looking forward to

it can you uh share any uh can't tell the carter story oh what was my most memorable sports experience i'm trying to think what i sure what i said through wrote three years ago that book was there i wrote a book but It was just therapy because I had a heart attack, and I wasn't allowed to play golf. And I was going to drive my poor wife nuts, sitting around stewing with nothing to do. So people have been after me for years to write a book, tell stories, blah, blah, blah.

And I never had any interest because I didn't think anybody would want to listen. So I delayed it and delayed it and delayed it. But then after i had nothing to do and i had to do some rehab i said okay i'll do it so i battered one out just for for uh to occupy a summer a couple of months so uh i'm trying to think what my most memorable sporting experience would have been there because i had I say, I had so many. Whatever it was that day was kind of the one. And you cannot tell the Joe Carter, right? No, no, no. We're not going there.

Can you tell us why you can't tell it? No, it's just, yeah. It's not my story. It's a repeat story. Gotcha. And I firmly and truly believe the veracity of it. But as I say, it's not my story. I can tell another story that's not my story, which I absolutely love.

And because the guy who told me the story is no longer with us, it won't matter. And it's a great story about Sean Connery. Okay, let's hear it. And a guy named Teddy Maud, the late Teddy Maud, was a golf pro. I knew him real well. He passed a couple of years ago.

Teddy was a golf pro in the South Ocean Club in Bahamas or wherever it is. And Sean Connery happened to be a member there because he had a home. And Connery was a golf nut. This is going back 50 years. So Teddy shows up. He's the new pro.

They have a meet the member day, blah, blah, blah. And so the members are all coming in. And Connery happens to come over and goes, to meet you, Mr. Maud, blah, blah, blah. And he says, have you ever got a chance I have trouble with a hook or a slice or something? I don't know what. So Teddy sees him a couple of days later and says, listen, I got some time.

You want to go hit some balls? I'll look at this, whatever's going on. And Connery says, oh, wonderful. So they go out to the range, and he's doing this and doing that, and Teddy's helping him with this, and Connery starts hitting it straight or whatever, and he says, oh, that's so wonderful. Let's have a drink, and blah, blah, blah.

So they go into the clubhouse, and they're going to have a drink, and Connery's getting bugged by everybody because this is the height of James Bond and all that stuff and nobody will leave him alone and Connery says you know I love to come to the club but people are always blah blah blah and I can't even sit and have a drink and Teddy says

well you see that house down the first fairway that's my house we can sit in the backyard and have a splash and nobody will bug us there Connery says let's go so they go and sit in Teddy's backyard and have a splash. And nobody will bug us there. Connery says, let's go. So they go and sit in Teddy's backyard and they're having a nice cocktail. And Teddy says, and I want to talk about the movies

and Ursa Landris in a bikini. And Connery wants to talk about golf and pronating his wrist and all this. Anybody says they're having a great time. And they hear a car pull into the driveway. And Teddy says, oh, that's my wife. I guess she was out getting her groceries. And Connery, who's had a couple of pops by this point,

says, leave it to me. So Connery wanders around the garage in the front of the house, and here's Teddy Mott, who knows none of this. And up comes Jamesames bond is just gonna help you with the groceries mrs mod and starts unloading groceries and taking it she's what is this james bond is unloading my groceries like it's teddy used to love telling us i used to i thought it was a great story. That's a fantastic story. Now, you can't tell that one Joe Carter story,

but can you tell us, you covered the, well, now we'd call it a walk-off, but the 93 winning home run. Yep. What was that? Can you share anything? It's just something happens on a deadline. You got to put your head down and start typing. It was, it was,

I mean, it's, we don't, I try not to look at it as a fan. I looked at it as a, I was working and this, and my job was to communicate this moment. And you only have a few minutes to do it in.

So did you have more than eight minutes or not much more old record, right? Not much more. Your old record, right? Not much more. You fired and win, you know. But as I say, I was always a fast guy, so there was never an issue with that. Well, I know Dan Shulman came on and talked about how he was stuck in the Skydome elevator during the Joe Carter home run.

This is the Dan Shulman story, so I'm always interested. Shulman was stuck in the elevator. Right. Shulman was stuck in the elevator. Not Joe Carter who hit the end. Not me, no. Do you remember who was on deck when Carter goes deep? I'm trying to think. It's a fun fact. I'd call this one.

Would that have been Olerud? No. No, it was actually Alfredo Griffin was on deck. Alfredo Griffin. Believe it or not. So there you go. There you go. I'm going to ask you if you don't mind about some of your former Toronto Star colleagues,

just if you don't mind and share what you can. But I'm really interested in what it was like working with Milt Donnell. Yeah, Milt was great. Milt was, you know, he was, the day he turned 100, Brian Williams, my good friend, he and I took up the Toronto Stars card to his home to give him, you know, his 100th birthday card was signed by the whole newsroom and blah, blah, blah. And Milt very kindly, he had delayed his trip to the casino that day because Milt was going out to play blackjack.

Gotcha. So that was kind of Milt right at the end. Like Milt was a fantastic guy. He was an elegant writer. Everybody knows that. guy. He was an elegant writer. Everybody knows that. He was 87

World Series in Minnesota before one of the games, about an hour before the game. We're in the auxiliary press box. Milt and I are up there. We're eating. There's a boxed lunch.

Major League Baseball gives you a sandwich and a cup of potato salad and all kinds of stuff. So anyway, so we're, no frozen lasagna, unfortunately. So six or eight of us writers sitting around. And they play a little game and they say, what's your first World Series? What was the great memory of it? Right.

And it was my first World Series covering. I'd been to other World Series, but never as a writer. So I said, well, this is mine. And somebody said, well, I was there for We Are Family, you know, the Pirates in 79. And somebody else was the Big Red Machine. And somebody else says, and they're going around the table. And one guy says oh i was i was

there the year mazaroski hit the home run in 1960 milt's never said never said a word milt's just sitting there smiling and he's all part of it and somebody finally says though well milt what about you now this is 1987 right and milt says well paul derringer blah blah, blah, blah. And of course, he was talking about 1940. So at that point, like, Milt's first World Series was like, and we all just come with, ah, we'll shut up now. You win. You win, Milt. Milt was a good guy.

Damien Cox has been on a few times, but he tells a story about how he was talking to Milt Donnell one day about Bill Barocco, the legendary Bash and Bill. And, you know, Milt actually saw Bill Barocco play. Yeah, he said he was like John Cordick. Yes, that was it. Yeah, that's right.

And I heard this because I'm a big fan of the legend of Bill Barocco, you know. And I mean, I was a big Cordick fan, but I mean, it was such an interesting comparison, like when you talk to somebody who can give you that kind of perspective and actually side, so I always remember, you know, Milt compared Bash and Bill to John Kordick. Yeah, but I mean, whenever

if you would get too goofy in the office, you just kind of had to look over and there was milk like milk covered luke garrig right so you'd whatever you've seen somebody else has seen it you know what i mean like at that point like milk wouldn't have gone berserk about vlady guerrero i can tell you that you know what i mean like junior or senior like uh milt had great perspective perspective and it kind of rubbed off from him. Good stuff. Now, did you get along with Damien Cox since I brought him up?

Yeah, I think so. Damien was, you know, he was kind of like the generation a little bit behind me. He was there a few years after the start. He was a hockey writer who took over kind of from frank or right and then when i was sports editor he was kind of the main guy frank had got sick and damien took over and i thought damien was a pretty good hockey writer because he didn't necessarily

kowtow to the whole hockey mentality kind of thing, you know, that a lot of guys did. But unfortunately, he was a Notre Dame fan. So there's always that, you know. Who's your team of choice? I could. Listen, whatever happens is fine with me. That was my attitude on stuff.

You mentioned Frank Orr. Yeah. Can you share memories of Frank? Frank was, I saw Frank not long ago. He's still upright, still tells good stories. All right. Frank knew stuff. Frank knew the game.

He knew hockey. I'll tell you, one of the tragedies was when Frank had heart trouble, he was on long-term disability. He couldn't work. But he wanted to work. He wanted to do stuff. So I had said, I suggested to another sports editor at the time, I said, you know, there's a lot of great hockey players

who are getting of that age. There's Jean Beliveau and Gordie Howes and Johnny Bowers and Bobby Hulls. And Frank knew them all, covered them all. Why don't we get Frank to write some obituaries? And when the time comes, God forbid, but when the time comes, we'll patch in the details. Right.

And then we'll have a lovely Frank Orr read on what this guy was really like. Alan Stanley and guys like that. Sure. And Frank loved the idea, and he wrote all kinds of stuff. And I'll tell you, it's like literature. It was beautiful. And the star took it all and set it all in type,

and God forbid the day that it came, Joe Blow died. Right. They'd have a Frank Gore piece. They'd just tighten up the nuts and bolts at the top on the details. Sure. Well, one of the star constructions it all got thrown away wow it it all kind of disappeared like it into the a bit like no backup yeah i i i'm not sure because i'm gone oh but that's uh from the time so i i know they rescued some of them but they

weren't able to rescue all of them and i just thought just thought that's kind of, it's like a tragedy. Yeah. It really is. Because now, and this is not a criticism, but when a Johnny Bauer goes, there are very few people left know Johnny Bauer from, you know what I mean? You're absolutely right. In the business. Right.

And I think some guys don't get the send-off they deserve. No, you're absolutely right. Absolutely. Now, I want to hear your memories of this gentleman who's no longer with us, but Jim Proudfoot. Yeah, Jim was one of the great companions of all time on the road. Jim was a very erudite guy and a very, very fussy, fussy guy.

Jim was the kind of guy who would travel with slippers and a robe. You know what I mean? And when it was bedtime, Jim would put on his slippers and his robe and in his hotel room kind of. Yeah, Jim was, he was the night uh in in alberville in 92 he and i covered the

olympics for the star and we stayed at a brand new hotel that would just been built in uh in alberville built in uh in alberville and like all these little french hotels it was a tiny tiny tiny room with crepe paper walls i mean it was it was like you couldn't put your suitcase anywhere you had to put it on the bed when you went out and under the bed when you know what i mean like it was it was just terrible no room at all hooks on thes on the wall. That was your closet. But you could hear everything. So anyway, we're in Albertville, and we're trying to get sleep because Olympics are long, long days. And one night we came back, and we had a cocktail, and time to go to bed.

And I'd been at speed skating. and time to go to bed. And I'd been at speed skating. And that night, Koreans had won their first ever Olympic medal in short track speed skating, something, you know. And Jim had been somewhere else. So anyway, we get back to the hotel, and the Koreans are going berserk. They've won a medal. And they're shrieking and drinking and having fun and just living the life.

And we're trying to get some sleep. So finally get our heads down, and the rampaging Koreans are still living it up, celebrating this medal. And finally I crash open. I hear this crash about 1 in the morning. And I go, what is that? And I hear some yelling. So I go out, and it's Jim in the hallway in his slippers and robe

yelling at these Koreans saying, shut up. Shut up. Decent people are trying to get some sleep. He said, it's a fucking bronze medal in short track speed skating. No one cares. Shut up. And so he berates them, tells them we've got to get some sleep. So boom, back to bed.

It quiets down. We get some sleep. So the next morning I'm in the breakfast room, and there's a table full of Koreans, and they're completely hungover. And, you know, they're in pain. I've been there myself. I know they're in pain. I've been there myself. I know. They're in pain. Jim comes in and he's looking all fresh

as a daisy. As Jim comes in, the entire table of Koreans gets up and bows deeply from the waist to Jim. Jim just keeps looking. He kind of flicks his hand at them. He says, at ease, boys. It was great.

That was Jim. He was a wonderful guy. Terrific writer. Jimmy was not a fast guy though. It took Jim a long time to kind of collect his thoughts and put

them into print. Whereas I was just a banger. I'd see something I could write in my head in the elevator right back up from the clubhouse. And then I'd just sit down and as fast as I could type, it would come. Jim needed more than those eight minutes.

Jim was much more deliberate. But his stuff was much better. That's the difference. The next day, that's the difference between reading an artist and a hack, which, you know, Jim was the artist. You mentioned earlier that you suffered a heart attack. So first thing I want to know, how are you doing now, health-wise? I'm still on the right side of the turf, as they say in Scotland.

Your former colleague Doug Smith also had a hard episode. Dougie's the only guy in the business I ever met who was as fast as me. Only guy I ever met who could bang it out and he was great to work

with on the Raptors because when I'd go and write a column I'd say what's your angle? He'd say this and this. I'd say, what if I do this and this? He'd go, perfect. Boom. I'd type, he'd type, we'd be finished at the same time, send in. There was never we didn't do overlap.

He was just the best at that kind of stuff. I mean, there's a lot of great reporters I work with, but I would put Dougie Wright at the top of the list because he was so good. He had that wire service training. I should tell listeners, little teaser,

is that Doug Smith has agreed to come on. In fact, he was scheduled, but he had to take his wife to a doctor's appointment, so we're going to reschedule that. But Doug Smith coming soon to Toronto Mike. Yeah, you'll enjoy that. Grab some Doug stories. The Lake, great.

Tell me about working with Alison Gordon. Yeah, I didn't, I was not writing when Alison was there. I was the night editor of the Star. She was the, she wrote baseball in the 70s when I was still at the Globe and then I came over to the Star and I was assistant sports editor but I was the overnight editor basically

so she would just file her copy but I was never in any kind of Allison was a big fan, a big baseball fan, and she was a very good writer. And we used to talk about the game and things like that, but I never really worked with her that way. It didn't never...

I don't think we were ever in the same press box. Here's a question from Donnie in Woodbridge. He says, I wonder how he feels about reporters at two of his old papers, The Star and The Globe, writing byline stories after watching games on TV instead

of being there in person. Yeah, terrible. Just terrible. It would have been a difficult thing to do. A couple of times I wrote off television for things. You know what I mean? But I would always make sure that I, in the first or second paragraph,

I would put in as shown on television or something. I would always make sure of that. I was sore dismayed to hear that the Star and Globe were doing that. It's just another step backward in the surrender. Are you friendly with Richard Griffin? Yeah, I hired Rich. When I was sports editor, I had to hire, I was the baseball columnist before I became a sports editor,

and I needed to hire my replacement. And, you know, there was inundated with applications, and some of them were very, very good, and I kind of thought, is there somebody different? And I'd always enjoyed, when I'd gone to Montreal and done Expo games, Richard had kind of written the notes, the game notes, the press notes.

And they were always kind of clever. And I thought, I used to admire that. I used to think, geez, I wonder if this guy would be interested. It can't hurt. So I just called him out of the blue, and he said he was interested, and we got talking, and one thing led to another, and eventually we hired him.

But, you know, it was certainly not like some of the higher-ups were looking at me like I had six heads, you know. This guy, he's not a newspaper guy. He's not a blah, blah, blah. I said, well, anyway, you know, I was rich there about 24 years. Yeah. And then this time around, I kind of suggested he go back and become the Jays PR guy.

This was, I won't say it was my idea, but I encouraged it to both Atkins and Rich himself. I thought it was a perfect match. This team needed someone who I thought knew the market, understood the game. Rich was, I thought, perfect. And he had experience in the job. Now it's mightily changed since he did the Expos, obviously,

but he knew the ropes, and I think it'll be good for him. I was wondering if the decision to stop sending, I mean, I think they make exceptions for playoff games, I think. Yeah, yeah. I really don't know too much about it because I don't have much of anything to do with the paper anymore. I get my pension every month as long as I do that. So that was Donnie and Woodbridge.

And here's Massimo inxdale wants to know what you think of the recent trend of reporters leaving traditional media to write for teams or league websites one guy i'm trying to think there are some examples of course but mike zeisberger for example well the simple question is uh if you're i won't say mike but if you're if you're if you're, I won't say Mike, but if you're, if you're, if you're me and I'm working for the Toronto star, the Toronto sun, and I got a job offer to go work for the NHL or for the, for the Calgary flames or, or the Toronto blue Jays or whomever I say to myself,

five years from now, which who's going to be in business. Is the Toronto star going to be in business? Maybe. Is the Toronto sun going to be in business? Maybe. Is the NHL going to be in business? Is the Toronto Star going to be in business? Maybe. Is the Toronto Sun going to be in business? Maybe. Is the NHL going to be in business?

Surely. Right. So I think it's a matter of, you know, you've got to take care of yourself. But could you, Dave Perkins, could you have worked in an environment where you were defanged, so to speak? No, I'd have had trouble. So I'm certainly i i'd have probably had trouble but uh you know that means that casts no aspersions on anybody who has you got to put groceries on the table absolutely you gotta yeah you gotta feed your family now uh mike ragotsky

wants to know uh he says uh if the scenario of Tampa Bay splitting games in Montreal, he wants to know, is that good or bad for a permanent MLB team in Montreal? I don't think it could ever happen. If I understand right, they want to split the season in half and thereby force two markets to build new stadiums with a half a revenue stream, when you can't get one stadium built now on a full revenue stream? I think this is somebody's idea of

Tampa has a bad lease. The Devil Rays, I should say, have a bad lease with Tampa. It behooves Major League Baseball to say anything that will kind of put pressure on the other end of that lease. You know what I mean? Like, they're never going to say, no, we're not doing that. Hell, that's a stupid idea, even though it is.

Right. Listen, I'm not so sure. What you need is a billionaire who's willing to spend all kinds of money and not bleed the taxpayers dry, as has happened in so many different places. Well, until that person shows up and says, hell, I'll build a stadium, and I'll keep the revenue, and I'll do this and that, I just don't see it. Todd has a question he wants to know.

He says, are there any guys who were totally obnoxious when they played who have mellowed to the point of enjoyable in retirement? But he goes on to say there are a couple of Tigers who used to be real jerks, Jack Morris and Kirk Gibson, who are now actually pretty charming and engaging guys. Gibson was a prickly guy. I always enjoyed Jack Morris. I never had a problem with Jack Morris.

Jack could be a prick, no question about it. But if you went in and asked Jack a sensible question about something, yes, he would try to intimidate you, but he'd answer. And if you, you know, it was never my goal to be friends with players. And some guys you glommed on to, some guys you didn't. But it was never my idea to be friendly with players. You went in, you tried to keep it professional. You asked the questions you needed to ask.

You showed up when you ripped them. And if they had something to say to you, they're entitled to say it. No problem at all. I never had a problem with Jack. There was guys, believe it or not, I remember Jim Acker. If he pitched poorly and you'd go in the clubhouse. Acker would say, hey, you can't sugarcoat it. That was no good tonight.

Don't even try to sugarcoat that one. You know, there was guys like that. Morris was like that. I stunk tonight, Jack would say. There's not much else you can say beyond that. I never had a problem with Jack anyway. So I'm glad to see him in the Hall of Fame. I voted for him for 15 years and I was glad to see him get in. Now that you don't have to worry about getting like media credentials from your buddy

Richard Griffin there and for the Blue Jays and stuff. Honestly, what are your thoughts, Dave, about basically about the, how do I word this, the owner of the Blue Jays being the same, the owners of the media that have the... Yeah, I think it's horrible. I think the coverage reflects that. I think, I really think you need a strong voice willing to tell the truth.

And I'll say Greg Zahn had his issues. But sometimes Greg Zahn would call things by their right name. And to me, that's important because if everybody's always wonderful, if every player is a superstar in waiting, if every play is a great play, even when they're thrown to the wrong base, and everybody's scared to report that now, apparently, when you see bad stuff,

some guys like John and Joe Sittle will do it too, will say, hey, this is not right. He should have thrown this. What is he thinking? Why did he throw that pitch in that situation? Why did he blah, blah, blah? Then to me, those guys will have credibility two years down the road if they say, hey, maybe this guy should be on the

All-Star team. Or maybe this guy should be this or that. Or we like the way he does this or something. So that way they'll buy themselves credibility. But the way I hear it now, I mean, you'd never know that this was a team that's, you know, 30 games out of first place and 25 games above 500. Every player's a superstar. It's just, it's kind of like I shake my head every night. And I say, all these pitchers are great,

and the starter's got an ERA of seven for the month? Like, what am I missing here? You know? So I think it's ridiculous that the owner of the team is the owner of the main media that covers the team. It's just, it doesn't serve the fans well. I know that much. Do you,

are you of the opinion that the media covering the Jays for Rogers Sportsnet is, I would say, self-censoring? Like, there's probably, there's. Yeah, I think, I think they're scared of their jobs. Not each one of them, but I think there's enough worry about the future. You know, you just look at the, all the hockey people who got rinsed. You know, who did, who did start with, started with people who got rinsed. You know, who did it start with? It started with people who were willing to sometimes call things by their right name.

And that also sounds like a Bob McCowan. Like, I don't, you know him far better than I do, but he doesn't seem like a guy who would be tamed. Correct. I would say that that was correct. Well, by the way, I'll just speak on behalf of Toronto sports fans that we miss Bob McCowan having an outlet in this market, and I hope he does something soon.

Sure, I agree. If Bob's listening, he should come on Toronto Mic and talk to me about it all. But, man, is it true, Dave? We're almost winding down here. I know you've been amazing, right? An hour and 40 minutes. I we're almost winding down here. I know you've been amazing, right? An hour and 40 minutes. I'm going to wind down here. And if you have more great stories you want to throw down,

please don't be shy. But is it true that you're partly responsible for bringing down the wall in Berlin? Is that true? Do we give you any credit there? Yeah, I was there. My wife and I were there. I was at the World Series in 89 where they had the earthquake.

And, uh, as you know, uh, the world series was delayed like 10 days, uh, before they could rebuild. And for two days I was running around writing news stories on,

uh, on what was happening with the earthquake and blah, blah, blah. So I, I went home and I already had a vacation planned, and everything was booked. Tickets were booked. My wife and I were going to Germany for a vacation.

So somebody else covered the last two games of the World Series, and we went to Germany, and we happened to be there when the Berlin Wall opened, which was absolutely a phenomenal sense of timing. These two major events worldwide, three weeks apart. And here I am, I had both of them. So we were there at the gate when they punched the hole in the wall and the little Russian cars putted through and people were there cheering.

That was a fantastic few days. Wow, that's incredible. And earlier when I think I mentioned that you were, yeah, the Hall of Fame you're in, I don't know if it's the Hall of Fame, but you won the, what's the Sandy Hawley Award? Oh, that was for some charity work from the Ontario Sports Hall of Fame.

They put it out every year. It's like a – Sandy Holley's a wonderful guy, great guy. I'm so proud to have my name on something the same as his, terrific guy. And it happens to go to – it's like for some charity work and everything because I had done a little charity work over the years, and they were kind enough to give me that one year. But that's the only thing

that I kind of... I'll put you in the Toronto Mike Hall of Fame when I set one up. Get you in there. It comes with lasagna, it comes with beer, and it comes with stickers. And now I'm just remembering earlier you said that,

I think you said Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens should be in the Hall of Fame? Well, I vote for them, so it's a museum. It tells the story of baseball. I don't think you can tell the story of baseball without Pete Rose and Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens. And, you know, the other reprobates are in there. The Ty Cobbs are in there, too. Right.

You know, Tom Yockey's in the Hall of Fame. He wouldn't have blacks on his team. You know, I mean, come on. That just becomes part of the story, right? It's all part of the story. And it's, you know, I think if you ask me, the Negro Leagues are underrepresented in the Hall of Fame. I think there should be way more players from the excluded leagues

in the Hall of Fame. But that's just me. Yeah, absolutely. Now, before I play us out, is there a story you want to share that I didn't trigger? Is there one there that you think you might want to leave with? No pressure, but because I know Steve Simmons tells me that you tell the greatest stories,

and I'm now the last hour and 43 minutes. I've witnessed this, and I knew this from primetime sports, but tremendous. I used to cover Bay Hill every year. I really liked Arnold Palmer. I got along well with Arnold. And every year, Bay Hill would be followed by the players, this is going back a few years, up in Ponte Vedra.

And on the Monday, the day after Bay Hill ended, the World Golf Hall of Fame, which is right near Jacksonville, would have this little golf tournament that i referenced about jack nicholas and it would be just for the media and they'd open the new exhibits and one year it was gary player and one year it was uh byron nelson and one year it was jack nicholas and we go out and play golf meet the the the the gentlemen and they'd and they'd we'd have lunch and and then they'd walk us through the exhibit and explain all the stuff. So one year I really wanted to play Bay Hill, and I liked the golf course.

So I made a tee time for the following Monday after the thing, and I'd run into Arnold at the World Golf Hall of Fame and blah, blah, blah. So I went up, covered the players. Then I drove back to Bay Hill. So I'm playing Bay Hill on the Monday. And I had, let's say I had a one o'clock tee time. I got there about noon.

I'm going to go out to the range, but I was a little hungry and there's a little snack bar. So I said, I'll got a hot dog or something. So I sit. I order a hot dog, and I hear this voice say to me, what are you doing back here? I turn around. It's Arnold Palmer sitting all by himself.

And I said, oh, hey, Arnold, I'm going to play today at 1 o'clock. He says, oh, isn't that great? Are you playing with us? I said, well, no, I'm not. So Arnold says, well, sit down. If you're not teeing up, sit down for a while. And we sat there and had a hot dog and just shot the breeze for about 20 minutes with Arnold. And then Arnold says, well, we better hit some balls, hadn't we?

And I thought, well, you can hit balls. You know what I mean? So Arnold, get up and go to the first spot. you know what I mean so Arnold get up and go to the first spot and Arnold's sitting by and I go about 15 spots down the range with my little spabbing pass of things I'm not going to hit ball standing next to Arnold Palmer

I'll tell you that much but Arnold was a wonderful guy I was sorry to hear he passed there was a lot of good stories about Arnold but that's for another time and I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that there will be another time because I could do this every day.

If you've got nothing better going on, maybe you just come over every day and tell me stories. How does that sound? Possibly. Hi, that's better than a no. And that brings us to the end of our 490th show.

You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Dave's not on Twitter, I'm at Toronto Mike. Dave's not on Twitter, so don't even try to find him there. He's not there. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Propertyinthe6.com is at Raptors Devotee.

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