Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - David Amber: Toronto Mike'd #587

Episode Date: February 20, 2020

Mike chats with David Amber about his years at TSN and ESPN before making the big jump to Hockey Night in Canada.

Welcome to episode 587 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. The Keitner Group.

They love helping buyers find their dream home. Text TORONTOMIKE, one word, to 59559. And Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack, one of the most celebrated roots, country bluegrass bands in Canadian music history. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is Hockey Night in Canada host David Amber. Welcome David. It's good to be here. Listen, David Amber. Welcome, David. It's good to be here. Listen, a couple of things, just in the first minute, a couple of things caught my eyes. First of all, you have more sponsorship than we have at Hockey Night, so congratulations.

Smaller invoices, though. Secondly, 587, I feel honored. I cracked the top 1,000 to get here to do Toronto Mike. That's the attitude I like in a guest. Sometimes I get the hold, what took you so long? 587. Now, of course,

I would have had you as a top 10 episode, but I didn't know what I was doing back then. But honestly, better late than never. And you're getting me now when I finally figured out what the heck I'm doing. Like, you're better to be 587 than poor Jeff Merrick, who is 74.

Ah. Like, I think you've got a better deal. Well, you know, listen, but here's the thing. I'm true Toronto. You're Toronto, Mike. I grew up in downtown Toronto. I should have been in the top 15. I'm a real kid from the city here.

You're Toronto David. Yes. There you go. Before I pressed record, a song popped in my head as I was thinking, David Amber's here. And then I don't know how I'm not going to play it, but there's a song by 311. It got airplay on 102.1, which is what I was listening to at the time. And then, I don't know how, I'm not going to play it, but there's a song by 311. It got airplay on 102.1, which is what I was listening to at the time. And it's called Amber.

And I won't, I almost want to sing it, but it's like, Amber is the color of your energy. And you've never heard this jam. I have never heard that. And I know a lot of music and I've never heard that song.

Whenever anyone talks about my name, they do three things. They do Amber alert, bop, bop, bop, bop. That's no fun. Yeah, that's not a great association or they do gentlemen put your hands together for amber in the champagne room they do that whole thing i didn't even think of that and uh when i worked in the states a lot of people

did the amber waves of grain the whole you know u.s uh america the beautiful oh yeah okay that's not even in my uh my book there but here i'm just going just gonna play it from youtube real quick here just uh it's actually a really cool tune give it a moment here here Not a bad groove here. Hold on. I've heard worse songs. We're going to make him say Amber before I bring it down.

down that could be your theme song at hockey night in canada i didn't know i had a theme song you do now and yeah oh it's a good video too okay so 311 uh now you know you can uh tell your kids uh you got a theme song 311 amber but uh. But thanks for being here. Yes. Real Toronto guy. Thanks for having me. I actually had a song for you just because there's a producer named David Amber. Yes, I get his tweets once in a while. I think he's out in Japan or something, right? Yeah, so there's an Asian singer named Wenji. I don't know if I'm saying that right.

Where's my daughter when she is? We're just going to get a little taste of this. I guess the most popular song from her on YouTube and it's featuring David Amber. So this could kind of be our theme song today. We're going to do a little talking. And I don't know if you call this, I got to plead ignorance.

I think it might be K-pop. Yeah, it's K-pop. K-pop. For sure. You know your K-pop? Based on the tweets I get that are mistakenly for this guy, yeah, it's K-pop. So David Amber, you got to take him on in the SEO battle. When people search David Amber, they got to make sure they get our David Amber.

His life seems to be a lot more interesting than my life, I'll be honest with you. Well, that's because he's a big time star there. Now, so that's Wengie featuring David Amber. It's called Talk Talk if you want to find it on YouTube. You mentioned you're a Toronto guy.

So downtown, but you went to Jarvis Collegiate. I went to Jarvis Collegiate. I made a Jarvis. My third born is named Jarvis. Really? Yeah. You didn't go to Jarvis Collegiate. I went to Jarvis Collegiate. I made a Jarvis. My third born is named Jarvis. Really? Yeah. You didn't go to Jarvis though. No.

No, okay. I went to Jarvis Collegiate Many Moons. I grew up in the Annex, one of my favorite neighborhoods in Toronto and one of the best neighborhoods you'll find such a great eclectic mix of everything. Yeah. So not too far from Honest Ed's maybe. I'm trying to think. Yeah, Honest Ed's.

The Brunswick House, the Madison. Right. So right off the top here, since you're a Toronto guy, I'm just going to do this right off the top. If anyone listening, including yourself, David, has any Toronto real estate questions, you text Toronto Mike to 59559. The Keitner Group have partnered with Toronto Mike

to fuel the real talk. And I believe Austin Keitner can help you just have a conversation with the man again toronto mic to 59559 it helps the show and it'll help you out so you're at jarvis collegiate uh what sports did you play at uh back then i played well i played outside of school i played hockey but uh at school i played soccer for a couple years at jarvis and then i played football and baseball but our teams were not very good we were not a great sports school and uh and you know i was just an average athlete i was really i was quite little in until grade 10 i was about five foot one and about 90 pounds and then in between grade nine and ten i

shot up oh i was hoping that was gonna happen happen to me. Like I was thinking that. I was like, cause what's your height now? Six, two. Okay. Yeah. All right.

You carry it bigger for some reason, but six, two is still a good height there. Now it's funny that Jarvis collegiate's really close to like the Rogers empire, right? Like aren't they like, it's just up the,

up the street. Yeah. So see how it all comes full circle. It's funny how that works. So when how it all comes full circle. It's funny how that works, huh? So when did you realize you wanted to be a sports broadcaster or reporter? I would say during college at university is where... My dad worked in television. He was an executive producer of news specials at CBC.

So I was exposed to it. I was exposed to the television life and sometimes i'd get in the truck with him and it was complete chaos it was very exciting you know during what kind of stuff oh like i was gonna say what kind of elections the royal wedding you know the the pope tour in canada 84 uh the pope trying i can't maybe it was like 82 or 84 it was back then it was long time ago yeah and he um his real specialty was elections, though. He really, this guy knew more about politics, you know, in his pinky than 99% of people know. I mean, he really covered it.

So it was very exciting to me, and I just thought this would be an interesting field to get into. Like, I'm trying to remember back then, but I think that, I guess, Brian Mulrooney was kind of rising, maybe, for the federally, but that's kind of... Oh, yeah, Trudeau, John Turner,

Kim, what, Kim Clark was... No, Kim, Trudeau, John Turner, Kim Clark was... No, Kim Campbell had... Sorry, Kim Campbell, Joe Clark, Brian Mulroney, they were all right in there. Mulroney had that big run because I always remember him and Reagan singing Irish Eyes. I remember that too, actually.

That would have been in the mid-80s for sure. For sure, for sure. And now we're still... Still Mulroonies are everywhere. You can't even turn on your CTV in the morning withouties for sure. For sure. For sure. And now we're still, still Mulrooney's are everywhere. You can't even turn on your, uh, CTV in the morning without, uh, I know Carolyn Mulrooney is a great person and,

our sons are at school together and, uh, yeah. So they're, they're very nice. And I think they're buds with, uh, they're buds with the,

uh, Royal family, right? Aren't they the ones who went to the wedding? Uh, do I have my, uh, celebrities,

right? Uh, I don't, you know, and I don't follow that stuff too closely but I think there were some Mulroonies at the royal wedding And now those are the same royal people who live here now

they're the new Canadians right? I hope they can make it on their own I mean this is going to be tough going soon that Prince whatever Harry will be hosting some kind of reality show or something like that. Yeah, maybe if he's into sports, we can get him, I don't know, some

TSN hockey. Now that would be, you got to get him for $5.88. Prince Harry here on Toronto. He can't phone it in. He's going to have to come here. I know he's in Victoria or something like that. But okay, your dad, that's actually like how lucky are you that that's in the home? Like you're exposed to

all that stuff just in the home. Yeah,'re so, you're exposed to all that stuff just in the home. Yeah. I mean, you find that a lot, right? You find a lot of people, their, their, you know, their exposure to what are possible career paths are going to be presented to them through their families and friends. Right. And you know, it's not a mistake that you see a lot of kids who are lawyers, who their parents were lawyers or doctors, doctors. And in this case uh i have two sisters and one of them's in journalism as well she's a writer based out of new york and and here i am on the the tv side of things so yeah yeah i think you get a great exposure and you sort of i think you go in with your eyes a little bit wider open because you you've seen the good and the bad and you kind of know what you're signing up for and it just

seemed like a really exciting field for me no i, I mean, as a kid, I was, I'd be listening to like Jay's games on CJCL 1430. And I'd be like, oh, I would love to like, like, remember when Scott Ferguson would do the, right. And I'd be like, that's the, that's like Tom and Jerry have great jobs, but that Tom Ferguson, he just gets to go on the radio and talk about the out of town scoreboard and stuff.

And he did a great job too. And what a voice he has. I know. Yeah. You know, that story is kind of one of those infamous Toronto media stories where he, he leaves, uh, he leaves for the new station on 10 50, which was, uh, called the team.

Do you remember the team? It was short lived, but yes, I remember. So he leaves his gig for that. And then of course they have to replace him at, uh, at five 90 and that Mike Wilner gets the gig and the rest is history. What I keep telling my kids is I say, you know, the definition of success is when,

you know, preparation and opportunity meet, right. And, and the door opens for, for Mike and Mike's done a great job and jumped through the, you know, jumped through that door and he's put in his time and now he's,

uh, reaping all the benefits of it. So it's a funny industry that way.'s so few positions available but when one's available you've got to be ready to pounce so a lot of it is yeah a lot of it is like right time right place kind of deal absolutely you know and just uh speaking of whaler he's he's the most recent guest on toronto mike that was his fifth appearance so david you only have four more to go and i think you can do it so he's like the the Alex Baldwin of SNL for you. He's here like every couple of weeks.

Yeah, he's getting a jacket. We're going to have to make up jackets for the five-time guests. But, you know, you're only four away. I actually have high hopes that you can catch him. Let's see how I do on the first one, and then we'll go from there. You might not want me back. Right, I might be unplugging the internet in a moment. But it's a marathon, not a sprint.

All right, good. That's what I always say here. So thanks to your father, you're exposed to this side of this media and you just get the itch, like this is what you want to do. Yeah, I mean, I always loved sports. My dad, again, was more on the political side of things

and I just thought that was a little heavy. I love the escapism of sports. I mean, I've said this and thought this since I was a little kid. I mean, sports is the best reality TV there is. You just don't know what's going to happen. I mean, think about some of the incredible finishes. I was just down at the Super Bowl a few weeks ago.

And you know what? San Francisco had a 10-point lead with 11 minutes to go. And they end up losing by double digits. I mean, that's what sports is. It's just great theater unfolding before your eyes. And to me, I wanted to be part of that in some capacity. I knew I wasn't good enough to,

to be a professional athlete. So for me, this would be the second best thing. Yeah. You know, once in a while I get this idea of like sports is dumb. Why do I spend so much time watching it and following it? Like I know people who are happy and don't care about sports,

you know what I mean? And I get this idea, like, what if I just, by the way, it cost me a lot of money. And now I know you're a sports net guy and they sell a lot of cable packages at rogers so you know you like that but if you do love live sports that's where you you can't cut the cord like you just it's it would you can't cut the cord if you want to watch

multiple lives sports cord cutting i'm unfamiliar with that term can you explain what that is and no don't do not explain what that is don don't give anyone that idea. Remember though, you guys also sell us the internet too. So you're going to make it one way or the other. Well, we try. It's a multimedia conglomerate for sure. You know what though? The thing I love about sports is it really is, it's just so much fun, right? Think about how much fun that Raptors run. I don't know if you're a big basketball guy or not. I should finish that thought. Massive Raptor fan. I should finish that thought, which is that I get this idea I should quit sports.

Then maybe the next day, it's often the next day, I'll see, I don't know, the Raptors. Remember that Raptor game when they were down by 11 with a few minutes to go or something to keep

the streak going? This is a couple weeks ago. Something like that or the Super Bowl you mentioned or something will happen and it'll be like oh my god that was amazing that was an unscripted that is unscripted happening before my eyes amazing i love that i love how it makes me feel oh yeah that's why i follow sports like it doesn't take long to be reminded how awesome sports it's that communal feeling uh you know like watching that raptors run and you know having

grown up in toronto and it's been a long time since the city's had something to rally around i mean literally since the 92 93 blue jays championships that was the whole generation of not really celebrated you know sports triumphs here in this city you're right and that was a great moment and you know it was the casual fans were jumping on the diehard fans were there and really right across the country because we're the only Canadian NBA team. It's too bad Vancouver lost their team.

That was a shame. And they, you know, that was another story. Big country Brian Reeves forever. But you know what I mean? It was such a fun time. And I remember after they won game six against Golden State, going downtown with my wife, my kids,

and we were with a few other families. We all slammed like 13 of us into an Escalade, drove downtown, and my daughter is up on top of a bus cheering with me i mean it was phenomenal they're never going to forget that moment and it was just it's that feeling you can't you just can't describe because it's just this great community feeling that feeling was so intense and amazing that like right now i've been a leaf fan forever and leaf fans are literally they're jumping out of windows right now. I think a lot of Leaf fans are on suicide watch.

It's just a tough time right now. And things don't look very good. And I actually, I think in my former other years, I think I'd be really like pissed off and upset right now. But I actually feel, I don't feel angry or sad or upset because I think I'm still riding the Raptors 2019 championship wave. Like I actually think it's still lingering.

Like I feel like, Oh, I felt that I had that. That'll tide me over for a while. Does that make any sense to you? Or you're just numb or you're just completely numb and have lost all feeling. Yeah. You know what?

I, it really has been a great, it has been something that you still think about like, wow, that was so much fun. And if you go through that Raptors run, I don't want to bog down the podcast. No, do it, because I actually had Jack Armstrong on the show last week. Oh, well, I mean, I'm sure you guys went through it game by game,

but everything fell into place, right? Like, they have this great team, they finish with the second best record in the East, and then what? Then they lose game one to Orlando, and everyone's like, oh, here we go again, typical Raptors. Yeah, and I was at game two against Orlando, so I feel I'm partly responsible because I got to game two, oh, here we go again. Typical Raptors. Yeah, and I was at game two against Orlando, so I feel I'm partly responsible because I got to game two, the first

win in that run. I like to break it down. I like to go through it because I always look at game three against the Bucs. This is what I always look at. We were down 2-0. Yes. Yes. And Kyle Lowry had fouled out, I believe, in that game. Yes. There was, what, six minutes left? It was double overtime. Yes. I mean, people forget about

that. People look at game seven versus philly and i say yes game seven was important against philly game four against philly when they were you know facing a possible three one deficit but it was game three versus the bucks i got the goosebumps right now actually i got it right now and that's partly because it's freezing down here but it's also because i'm thinking that game three against the bucks and you know we almost blew it we blew it in regulation almost right right? Go to over first, over down. We almost blew it again. Like we were hanging on by the skin of our teeth

and we do win it in double overtime. And if we lose that game, we're not champions right now. I say there's no, of course, there's always a chance, but I say no chance. You come back three, nothing against the Bucs. We win that game and then you go, you know, we went four in a row. And that, and funny thing, it's the next morning,

just to, you know, promote another of toronto mic'd but the very next morning early the next morning i think it was victoria day like it was a holiday monday i believe and leo routins was at my door uh like 8 a.m the next morning to to be on toronto mic'd and it was right after that double overtime game three against the bucks and to me if you're going to break down all the games you're right that game That game, and I think I'm right actually, but you're also right. That game three against the Bucs, that's everything. That is the one.

That was the one. Everyone remembers the game seven shot. That wasn't make or break. If that shot from Kawhi doesn't go five rims or four rims and in, then they go to overtime and they still have a 50-50, maybe even a better than a 50-50 shot. But if they lose game three,

if they don't force the overtime and don't win that game, I'm with you. The likelihood of them winning four in a row facing that sort of obstacle against that team doesn't happen. You're right, yeah. And people, yes, you're right.

The four-bouncer that Kawhi puts, I have a t-shirt. I almost wore it today. What did I wear? Oh, lost Indy City. But I have a t-shirt commemorating the four-bounce shot by Kawhi Leonard. That is the moment.

But yeah, and that moment moment like you just said if that ball doesn't go in there's overtime it wasn't a you know it's got to go in or you're you're out it would so now in hindsight because i know it's going to go in i wish we were down by a point when you put something but i mean that and that's again getting back to it that's what i love about sports just the unpredictability of it everything had to fall into place and not just what happened against the 76ers and then what happened against the Bucs. But then in the final, you know, I was there for games one and five and game five, I was there expecting to see a championship. And, you know, when Durant went down and everything else, you know, it was, you know, back in game one, it was it was like, wow, you know, I guess in game five, it was like, wow. I guess in game five, it was wow. Almost everything really literally fell into place for the Raptors to win that championship. And if you're like me, that whole season you were thinking, you had the one year of Kawhi

and you were thinking, finals or bust? I wasn't ever thinking championship or bust. I was like, let's go get our butts kicked by the Warriors. And that's another step that we've never been to a finals. None of the big we've never been to a finals. None of the big three teams have been to a finals since Joe Carter touched them all in 93.

So let's get to the finals, get our butts handed to us by the Warriors, and maybe we can talk Kawhi into sticking around and see if we can do this again or whatever. But then we get there and then you're right, they're decimated by injuries and they're not nearly the scary Warriors we'd seen over the past few years.

And you're thinking, no, screw it. Like, let's win this thing. Like, let's just get this championship now. And, you know, I don't even like the narrative of, hey, they were decimated by injury, so the Raptors won. I mean, they outscored the Raptors five out of 24 quarters. Right. Okay, so I wouldn't say the Raptors dominated them,

but aside from that bad third quarter in the second game, the Raptors were easily the best team. And injury's part of the game. You're telling me the Raptors weren't playing banged up? I mean, that's part, that's what you got to, I mean, that's sports, right? So I don't look at it as there's any asterisks or, oh, no. Well, no, definitely not an asterisk.

That's the sports, like you said. But it did make it a little easier when some of the core guys went down. But yeah, we earned that championship. And you know what? Now I'm thinking let's go for two. Right? Why not?

It's going to be tough to finish second in the conference. But if we somehow can finish second, it's going to be a fight to the finish to finish second. But if we can finish second in the conference, you never know, man. I feel good about this team. One thing we've learned is Nick Nurse is an exceptional coach and these guys have a lot of guts i mean it's been next man up all year long for this raptors team and they haven't they haven't wavered at all they've overachieved you know i was one of those people saying now they're going to finish fourth or fifth in the conference to win 48 maybe 50 games and here they are they're probably going to win you know 55 games uh going to finish maybe

second maybe third in the conference and and they're going to be an incredibly tough out whoever they play in the postseason. And speaking of decimated by injuries, I just really know, this is Raptors talk. This is fantastic. But you know, the Raptors, think about the man games we've lost from the starting five. Like, we're still two gone, right?

It's been amazing. It's unbelievable. Gasol's still out. Yeah, Norm's still out. Yeah, he's got another week to go. So it's been a lot of fun. And, you know, again, I would never count out this Raptors team. You know, for them to go back to back, it would be, you know, without Kawhi especially, it would be legendary. But, you know, I think we've seen enough sports, you and I, to know you never just count a team out.

And you can't really, you can't bank on what a team has as far as the heart goes. And they've shown that this team has a ton of heart. And when we do, when the Raptors do finally build a statue, because the Leafs have been building these statues for years now, right? But that's got to be Kyle Lowry. That's your first statue. Get a Kyle Lowry statue outside the Scotiabank Arena. I think number seven, I think that makes sense.

I'm trying to think, you know, people want to talk about Vince and certainly he left his mark here. And, you know, that's back when I was a Raptors reporter way back in the day. Right, we're going to talk about that for sure. My early days. But, you know, Vince, and you talk about Chris Bosh, and you're going to talk obviously even about Kawhi, and I have no problem.

I think that guy did everything perfect. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he deserves his moment here too, even though it was just one year. He can have a statue, but not the first statue. No, I think it's got to be, I think 100% it's got to be Kyle Lowry. And do you know anyone at MLSE? Maybe we can get this going here? Come on, what are we waiting for? I'll put in a call to Larry Tannenbaum

when we get off the set here. Every time I bike by the Scotiabank it looks like another leaf has shown up and bronzed outside in that bench there or whatever. I go, oh, look, Matt's here now and there's Dougie or whatever. Let's Johnny Bowers there. Let's get a Raptors stuff going on there.

Okay, so you went to Syracuse. So you went to McGill, though, first. So you went to McGill, and then you went to Syracuse to study what, journalism? What were you doing in Syracuse? Yeah, they have a really... Leo Routens went there, by the way, as well. Really? He hasn't mentioned that.

They have a really good broadcast journalism program there, both in news and sports, but specifically they've put out a lot of guys into the sports field. So, you know, back in the day, this was in the mid-90s, there weren't a lot of Canadian options. There's a lot more options now if you're a young person aspiring to be in sports broadcasting in Canada. If I were graduating now, I probably would have stayed in Canada.

Is it true that there's a lot... Because I feel like there's... Not a ton of options. Because it feels like it's less. If you talk to a Toronto Star report, I'm talking about print for a moment, but if you talk to a Toronto Star, because I've done this,

and you'd be like, how many people did you send to Philadelphia for game... Let me do the math. Is that five? Yeah. For game five of the 93 World Series, how many people went to Philly?

I'll make up a number because I can't remember. They'd be like, we sent in total 40 people. Okay. How many people did you send to, you know, Oakland or whatever

for the Raptor thing? And I'm like, yeah, we sent two people. Like, it really doesn't feel like there's more jobs out there. I didn't say there's more jobs.

What I meant is there's more school opportunities is what I was going to do. Yeah, the landscape's completely changed. Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I jumped ahead. No, I was saying the reason I went down to do. Yeah, the landscape's completely changed. Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I jumped ahead.

No, I was saying the reason I went down to Syracuse is because there wasn't really a great academic option. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm connecting dots that aren't there. Okay, so you went to school there to get a good education.

What do they teach you in like a broadcasting school? It feels like that should be a weekend course. How many years? What the hell's going on over there? I i never went to school look at how what an amazing job i'm doing talking in a microphone you're a natural um what do they teach us well it's a long time ago i mean there were some there there was there were certainly a few courses you know

theoretical courses but more than anything it was going out with a camera uh figuring out a story we would do fake broadcasts where one week you'd be the producer the next week you'd be the weather person the next week you'd be the news anchor the next week you'd be the you know uh director so you learn all the different skills because they knew at that time and i don't know what it's like now but at that time when you'd have a job you'd have to do everything so the funny thing is this they kind of lure you in with these promise don't worry we'll get you out in the field. So I graduated in December of, I think it was 95 from Syracuse.

And I was sending out tapes everywhere. I mean, I had a year visa to work in the States. So I was sending them out to Bangor, Maine and Joplin, Missouri and Jackson, Mississippi and Redding, California, places you wouldn't want your worst enemy to have to live. And then I'm getting all these rejection letters back. And I'm thinking, oh, this isn't going so well.

What about that Syracuse education? And it took about 11 months till I finally got a job. How'd your voice change, Jed? Like, did you sound like this back then? Please give me a chance. I was going to say. Yeah, I'd gone through puberty. I was 25.

So I'd gone through puberty. But I remember I was living at my parents' house and saying to my mom, like, wow, this is a lot of rejection. Like, I haven't you know I've I've faced rejection from women a lot of times but I hadn't faced this kind of rejection just from the mass you know out there you know it was it was it was tough it was tough but were you only uh sending your tapes in the states at first I was because um they sort of I knew there was a good network they sort of helped us prepare us for here are the job openings. Here are some things you want to look into.

I didn't know the Canadian landscape as well. And I wanted, because I had that year visa, I wanted to sort of start out in the States and see what would happen. Well, that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense on multiple levels, but especially if you know you have this, it's like the Kauai one year window. Okay.

You got to go for this. We have one year of Kauai that we, we guaranteed one year of Kauai. You had a year guaranteed where you could work in the States and you'd be a fool not to try to take advantage of that. Yeah. And there was just, there was, there was what,

217 markets, I believe. And I sent out tapes to maybe 30 of them, including like North Platte, Nebraska, which I think was market 217. I'll never forget. I still have this letter somewhere.

I got to find it. It was from Bangor, Maine. I applied for the weekend sports anchoring job. So you're not even the top sports and you're like the secondary guy in Bangor, Maine. I'd never been there before. And it was paying, I think, $14,000 and like, you know, literally. But American dollars. You would be buying the Cadillac. Well, at this, at that time, I think the dollar might've been on par. I don't even remember. It was just a disaster.

And I remember getting a letter back and it was like, you know, thank you. We appreciate your interest in this position. We received 142 tapes and we're just going with someone else and i remember kind of opening the letter and like sheepishly kind of turning to my mom and saying you know i may never get a job like this might not work out for me and then i started driving around ontario looking for jobs so you know i i drove to barry tried that you know the new all the way to barry well the new VR. All the way to Barrie. Well, the new VR Raptor Games later. Yeah, yeah. Well, I tried a lot of different places.

And finally, I drove up to Sudbury, and I met with a man named Mark Oldfield. And he just said, look, we don't have anything right now. I like your tape. He headed up something called MCTV, Mid-Canada Television. OK. And he said, I'll pass on your tape. And then it was the day after Halloween.

So I graduated in December. It was November 1st. I remember this because I was incredibly hungover. It was like 8 in the morning. I'd just been at a Halloween party. I think I went as Tiger Woods. That's how long ago it was. It was a long time ago.

Although you could do that today. He's still, apparently he's going to win a master's. And the phone rings on Sunday morning. Who calls November 1st on a sunday morning i think it was sunday morning at like eight in the morning i'm like hello and he's like oh this is tony rima from mctv and susan i'm like yes it's like uh well we have your tape here would you like to come for an audition i'm like yes i would okay he's like can you be here tomorrow i'm like absolutely i hang up the phone i say mom great i got an audition i'm going to sue saint

marie and then i said where is sault ste marie like typical toronto i don't even know where sault ste marie is so not sudbury so you sudbury is where you send it out to all the i got you you're going to sault ste marie yeah and i so i jump in the car the next day it's a seven hour drive i'm trying to think about my cousin played for the sault ste marie greyhounds uh a long time ago ohl but uh anyway this is do you remember the year because i covered the greyhounds. A long time ago, OHL. But anyway, this is... Do you remember the year? Because I covered the Greyhounds for a year. That was my first TV job.

I would guess it would be something like 95 or something like that. Well, we might have crossed paths. I was there in 97. Joe Thornton was there when I was there, which was very cool. Yeah, he got traded. I'm a cousin.

It's all about my cousin here. He got traded to the Belleville Bulls after a season. He was a backup. I think it was... no, a starter goal. His name was Mark Gowan, and he was a goaltender. But it would be a wild coincidence if you could remember the great Mark Gowan and his great career.

Although he did score a professional career in ECHL. The Brown. Right? Yeah. And he said, they give you a free membership at the golf club, too. And at the time, I thought, this guy's got the dream gig. Forget Scott Ferguson. The best gig is,

this guy gets a free golf, he'll get this life he's got. But okay, back to you. We'll do the Mark Allen episode at another time. Maybe with my buddy, Tim Thompson,

who played with him on the golf team. I know Tim Thompson. Yeah, Boundless. Yes. Yes. Very creative

and wonderful producer. Boy, he can make you cry in a heartbeat. He's so good. I have a lot of time for Tim Thompson because I think he's a genius and I think he does great work,

but he is the softest talker on these microphones. Okay. He's a soft-spoken dude. He's like, I'm like, Tim, do we have to talk? Like the mics are right in front of me, but he's saying wonderful things. Like I love it. I'm like, okay, okay.

Turn him up, turn him up. Let me get this. Let me capture it. But yeah, he's a great guy. Okay. So shout out to boundoundless, Tim Thompson, who did great work for Hawking and Kennedy for many years.

I think he's still doing stuff with the CBC and he works with Lois DeLoe and a whole bunch of cool bands and stuff. No one gets can-con like that guy. So you're in Sault Ste. Marie. Like, what do you do in there? Well, everything. You know, you had to, I had to be my camera person.

I would shoot and I'd have to go back and edit and do everything. I mean, it was very hands-on. And we had a noon, a six, and an 11 p.m. newscast. And I would do news. And luckily, I got a chance to do a lot of sports, which was great. And I even had to do weather a few times, which was terrifying because I don't know anything. And literally, it's like sort of, you stand in front of this green screen

and you talk for four minutes straight, which doesn't sound like a big deal, but trust me, it was a big deal. Is it on the teleprompter? No. Okay, that's right. I mean, it was literally wing it.

Yesterday, Anwar Knight was on. He does weather for CTV News Toronto. And he was telling me that the news guys get the teleprompter or whatever, but the weather guys are winging it. Like, they don't have

anything written down. Yeah, at least he's probably a true meteorologist. I was just some 25-year-old idiot. But yeah, he had more experience than you. That's for sure. I'd be like, all right, well, bring an umbrella. I see there's a low pressure system moving up from the Florida panhandle and you better

be prepared if you're going to golf today. And I just make stuff up and I talk for three minutes and then I just left the set. It was pretty bad. But it must've worked out for you because at some point like you parlay your Sault Ste. Marie experience into what TSN? Like what is the, what's the big move after Sault Ste. Marie? Well, I had interned at TSN for a couple of years

and I'd really been bothering like basically hassling them for a job for a long time. And, you know, I was luckily they let me go out and sort of chaperone's the wrong word, but be mentored a little bit by Rod Smith, who's a great guy and a great journalist. There's a voice. Oh, my God.

That's the voice. And he took me under his wing a little bit and would help me out. And I put some tapes together. And they just said, you're a little green. You're not ready for this. But I kept shooting out tapes. When I got to Sault Ste. Marie, I sort of thought I better, you know, when I got to Sault Ste. Marie, they're like, oh, you're going to meet a nice girl from the Sault. You're going to settle down. This is going to be your life. Everyone had been there more than five years. And I, you know, it was not,

and I really liked the people there. Don't get me wrong, but I was not prepared to make that my final stop. Well, I can't give credit to the proper person, but some of the time they were, they were doing the same thing as you. Like they started out in a smaller market like that to get some work and reps in and get their experience and stuff. And they said the day they, one day they felt very comfortable there, like they could actually and stuff. And they said the day they, one day they felt very comfortable there. Like they could actually stay there. And that's the day I think that somebody they trusted said, you've got to,

you've got to leave right now. Like this is the worst thing. And don't, I hope the Sault Ste. Marie listeners aren't offended by this because it's not meant to disrespect the wonderful Sault Ste. Marie. It was a great community actually.

But you don't, your goal was that was not where you wanted to be. That's where you wanted to get experience in order to go to a larger market. Yeah. But you don't, your goal was, that was not where you wanted to be. That's where you wanted to get experience in order to go to a larger market, right? Yeah, and to be honest with you, that station I started at, MCTV in Susamory, doesn't exist anymore. So I would be, in some way, shape, or form,

I would not be in Susamory. I'd be doing something else otherwise. So yeah, after about three, four, five months, I just started shooting out tapes back to the people I knew at TSN and sort of begging and pleading and just saying, if there is an opening, please keep me posted. And then it was late August, early September.

I got a phone call from Keith Pelley, who was the head of sports at TSN at the time. And I thought it was a buddy playing a trick on me. He's like, hello, this is Keith Pelley. And I'm like, uh-huh, Stefan. You know, my buddy Stefan Barry is always pulling like kind of crazy pranks on me. I'm like, uh-huh. He's like, what do you mean, uh-huh? I'm like, who is this? He's like, Keith Pell me. I'm like, uh-huh. He's like, what do you mean, uh-huh? I'm like, who is this?

He's like, Keith Pelley. I'm like, uh-huh, go on. He's like, well, would you like to be our Calgary reporter for TSN? And I was like, is this really Keith Pelley? He's like, yes, it is. I'm like, yes, I would. And I was gone a week later, off to Calgary. Awesome.

And now he's gone to Europe, right? He runs the golf. The European Tour. He's the CEO. He's a big shot. Right after he closed that little deal, helped close the little deal for Rodgers

on the NHL front. That small $5.2 billion deal. Yeah, you know, Keith Pelley's been a great success everywhere. He's gone, so it doesn't surprise me he was able to secure

the hockey rights for Rodgers. Well, he's clearly got an eye for talent. He, you know, by the way, how many tapes, like, do you buy, I'm sure,

I'm guessing these are VHS tapes that you're sending around. Back in the 90s? Yeah. It was VHS tapes. And I have, it's funny, I have sort of a drawer. I don't keep a ton of memorabilia, but I have sort of a drawer with all my old press passes and a lot of my old resume tapes. And then my agent, eventually, they were more on discs.

Of course, eventually. But at the time, I'm trying to think, did you buy your blank cassettes in bulk? Where do you go buy, oh, there's a 10- But at the time, I'm trying to think, did you buy your blank cassettes in bulk? Where did you go buy? Oh, there's a 10-pack at the local. Or did you go back to the annex and pick them up at Honest Ed's? I don't know. I did not have a lot of money.

I was living in a basement apartment in Sault Ste. Marie with a great man, Aldo De Lorenzi, who was incredibly nice to me. He was a widower and super nice guy. And he was, he would stamp and watch the news and he kind of give me some pointers. And he was just a very, very nice man. He passed away a few years ago. Um,

but, uh, yeah, I, I was, I was a hand to mouth, a paycheck to paycheck for sure. Well,

yeah, but you're going through a lot of tapes. You should be like, if you're going to, if you're going, if you're not going to give me a job, please send back the tape. So I can send it.

I can recycle that please. Here's a self-adjusted stamped envelope. Send it back so I can send it to somebody else. Okay. So TSN, which at that time is the only national sports network in this country. Am I right? Sportsnet had just,

so this was 1997 and sports. I don't remember the year. I think it shows up in 98. They were right. And sports, I don't remember the year of sports. I think it shows up in 98. I think. They were right. You know, I think it just was a little bit of overlap. I'm going to be wrong about this. But anyways, it was just, if nothing else,

it was just sort of the burgeoning new sort of competition. And so I went out to TSN. I replaced a woman named Lisa Bowes who came to Toronto. I know Lisa. She's probably been one of the first 586. No, no. I don't think she's here anymore. I feel like she's at Lisa. She's probably been one of the first 586. No, no. I don't think she's here anymore. I feel like she's at West.

She's, I believe, back in Calgary. Right. So, yeah. And I don't do the phoners, okay? You've got to be live. And if you're Jack Armstrong, I might take a bike ride into your downtown. So, yeah, I replaced Lisa. And it was terrifying, I have to say, because in Sault Ste.

Marie, I made a lot of mistakes, but they were my mistakes. You know, it was before Twitter. And, you know know i remember the first interview i did was with one of the first interviews was with the mayor of sioux saint marie his name was steve butlin and i went into his office and remember i'm having to shoot the interview too so i have a camera and i'm like oh let's stand you right by the window i stand him at this window with all the sunlight coming in what do you think yeah yeah it looked like witness protection so i come back to the office and they're like where's butlin and they're like, where's Butlin? And I'm like, well, that's his silhouette.

Oh, that's funny. That's like a rookie mistake. Yeah. And I only made it once. But I mean, I made a lot of bad mistakes. But then when I went to Calgary, I'm like, if I make mistakes, like there's a lot more accountability and the stakes are a little higher and the expectations are higher.

And it was terrifying because the coach of the Calgary Flames was Brian Sutter. And, you know, it's funny. He's an intimidating guy. And, you know, I would try and ask very fair, open-ended questions. I'm not someone to stir things up. But, you know, the Flames were not a very good team back then. They didn't make the playoffs. This was in Jerome McGinley's, I believe, his second year.

And so I'd say, you know, Brian, what happened on this player? Brian, what happened in the third period? And he'd be like, you want to coach the team? And I'd be like,'s, I believe, his second year. And so I'd say, you know, Brian, you know, what happened on this player? Brian, what happened in the third period? And he'd be like, you want to coach the team? And I'm like, no, I don't, sorry. You know, it was intimidating to say the least. That's good training though. It was, it was. In your career here.

Okay. Now, so while you're at TSN, you get to go to some Olympics. Is that right? It was at the 2000 Olympics in Australia as a reporter, which was phenomenal. The last time Canadian men were represented there, I was there, Sherman Hamilton and Steve Nash,

and it was an incredible run. And I also did the 2002 Winter Olympics, which was great. Canada won gold in both men's and women's hockey there. Yeah, Salt Lake City. Yeah, Salt Lake City. So I was really uh to get those opportunities that was the the monkey off the back that was like 50 years of out of gold and i remember that team

so well and after the let go let down in nagano in 98 for both the men and women right oh yes of course uh yes the shootout against the dominic hasik i'll never forget that uh never forget that yeah but uh that 2002 2002, it all came together and you had, I'm trying to think of guys like Joe Sackick and it was a great team. Oh yeah. Lindros and they were a sensational team and it's funny, they lost a game in the preliminary

I don't even remember it that well. Yeah, to Sweden or something? Yeah, and people were getting anxious again and then they had that great final against the US and it was wonderful. It was so much fun. You know, the experiences i got in those four or five years going out in the field between 97 and 2002 and i was there for the in kobe's first nba championship against the indianapolis pacers with with shack in 2000 i was at the stanley cup final for a few years and a lot of world series it was it great. It was so much fun.

Any specific moments during this period of your career that you remember, I got to witness that? Like we talked about these kind of iconic sporting moments. But remind me, any of those Stanley Cup finals or NBA finals or World Series, was there a moment? Yeah, 2001, it was right after 9-11. And it was the Yankees versus the Arizona Diamondbacks. And the game after 9-11, it was was the yankees versus the arizona diamondbacks and uh the game after 9-11 it was the first game at yankee stadium the first major sporting event after 9-11 and george bush

came out to throw the first pitch took about two one of the things i remember is it took about two hours to get through security to get into yankee stadium because it was on tight lockdown you can imagine it's right after 9-11 this big big sporting event, the president was going to be there. He comes out, he throws the first pitch, they have this eagle fly in and land on a guy's arm. And, you know, listen, I'm Canadian. I'm as patriotic as any Canadian. But even in that moment, just knowing what New York had been through,

knowing what had happened, the atrocity of 9-11, and, you know, people were crying. People were welling up in the media who are the most cynical people in the world. You know, it was a special moment, that first pitch. It just felt like there was this unity and this like, we're going to get through this moment. It was phenomenal.

Yeah, that was an emotional time. It was like, yeah, because you wanted to sort of, you want a normalcy to return. And it was like that here, yes, we're going to do, you know, we're going to play baseball now. And it's just a game, but it's more than that. And sport was one of those things, a unified, it goes back to what we were talking about 20 minutes ago. Like sport is this unifying communal thing.

It was the eyes of the world were on this and like, yeah, a horrible things happen. Probably the worst thing that's going to happen, hopefully in our lifetimes just occurred. But you know what? We're going to get through this. Screw, you know, screw the terrorists who are going to try and bring us down right and we're going to get on with our lives and enjoy you know america's great pastime and the series was phenomenal you know after that kind of incredible moment went to a seventh game mariano rivera comes in luis gonzalez the broken bat game seven right uh you know i missed that because we're in a corridor what happens is before

they bring you out onto the field yeah they put you in this little corridor. So we're watching on this 18-inch screen, like 50 of us sitting there. At least you had the TV. And I'm writing my script. I'm like, all right, Mariano Rivera locks down. What a great story. Yankees win their fourth straight World Series

or whatever it was. And then I was like, wait a minute. Luis Gonzalez just got it. OK, next time you see Dan Schulman, ask him how it was witnessing Joe Carter's home run at the D dome in 93. Ask him. Oh,

did he not see it? He was in an elevator at the dome. So he's like, so at least you had a TV. So, oh, by the way, you talk about sports and these moments and unification of people.

And I always think about, you mentioned again, though, already, because you talked about Salt Lake City's gold medal, but Jamie Campbell was on last week and he talked about, he was at the 2010 and he talked about getting into,

I think it was Brad Fay hooked him up with a ticket to see the gold medal game. Brad is a resourceful guy apparently, much more resourceful than I am. That's great. I like Brad Fay. You know he's seen Bruce Springsteen a hundred times? I know he's a big Bruce Springsteen.

A hundred times. And I've seen a lot of good concerts. I've never seen Bruce Springsteen. No, I haven't either. But I know guys like there are it's like the grateful dead but what's the band or the act or the singer that you've seen the most times i'm willing to bet it's not close to and how many times i've only seen them three i'm not one of those i don't follow but that sounds normal to me but i've seen probably 20 concerts you two put on a great concert i just saw the rolling stones actually they were in an outdoor venue in Barrie this summer.

Their only Canadian stop. Oh, yeah, that's right. What's that place called? I can't remember. I heard about the people trying to drive out, apparently. It took hours to drive out of that. We were lucky.

We had great seats, and we had great... And you had a helicopter. We got out of there. We were lucky. Our driver knew what he was doing, and we were staying at a friend's cottage, so it wasn't too bad

and I know he was about 20 years late to the party but man it was fun to see the Rolling Stones but you're not going to see oh you won't be able

to see them 100 times I don't think they have 100 shows I don't know if I'd want to see anyone 100 times no I know it's a bit obsessive

right I think Brad Fay is a great guy and I really I mean he hooked up with James what I'm saying is the Iggy

that's the Sidney Crosby call before the Golden Goal against Ryan Miller and talk about a moment that unites a country. Like, like how, how many Canadians witnessed that moment and cheered like together? Like that's, that's sports. What else can provide that? That is sports. And especially now, um, you know, things are so polarizing. Things are as polarizing as I can ever remember. When I was at McGill university, there was a referendum about Quebec leaving Canada,

and it was a bit divisive, and you're kind of right in the heart of it when you're in Montreal, and there's this battle taking place, this cultural battle taking place. That was difficult. Now, granted, I was a student at the time, so it didn't absorb everything about me,

but seeing where we are politically now, not just what we're seeing in the States, but even in Canada, it's quite polarizing what's happening politically. So sports is that one thing that can really bring people together. Right. And it's because we're all on, you know,

Twitter and different social media, suddenly you see the polar, even though if it might've existed, but you were blissfully ignorant. You're right. Because you didn't go to that coffee time where those KKK wannabes hang out and have their coffee, right? And suddenly now they've got a Facebook group or something and a Twitter feed. Yeah, I mean, in some respects, it's good to know where people stand.

But in some respects, it makes me a little cynical and a little sad at times. No doubt, no doubt no doubt uh let's talk about the raptors again though because when you're at tsn uh you get you're a courtside reporter right for tsn broadcast i was i didn't i didn't do them all it wasn't designated the way it is now where you sort of have a you know like eric smith um uh you know is in and um you know we sort sort of have a dedicated sideline person for our games, right? It was a little, it was a little different back then. So I didn't do every game, but I did a fair share of games and it was great. It was really great experience. I really enjoyed it. And this is the, this is the Vince Carter era and it was TMAC there. So yeah, it was,

I remember doing fun times., yeah, it was. I remember doing... Fun times. It was a lot of fun. And I think if you were to sit down TMAC and sit down Vince and say if you could do it all over again, I think knowing now what they didn't know then, I think they would have stuck it out and said, what could we have done?

They were both too concerned about beating the guy. Is Rob Babcock still there? You got to remember, though, what was, you got to remember. But that's the reason, that was during the Vince demanding a trade time that was Bob Robb. Yes, I was gone.

By then I was gone, but it was. It takes two to tangle, because I'm with you, and I don't mean to take, but when you have bad management, you don't want to stick around. Like, I think now we're in this glory time. By the way, if that's breaking news,

because I know this trade's flying around, you can say it on... No, it's not. You know what? I have such a bad memory. I wanted to look something up. I was looking up the list of... Oh, I thought we had breaking news.

No, no, not at all. I was trying... It was Butch Carter and Lenny Wilkins. I couldn't remember. Yeah, Butch Carter, Lenny Wilkins were the coaches when I was there doing silent. And you know what was fun is there was a lockout in the NBA

and Vince Carter played his very first NBA game. It was at the TD Garden in Boston and I was the courtside reporter for his very first game. The Raptors went in and shocked Boston and won and I think he put up like 22 points or something like that. And we didn't realize it,

but it was the start of a very special era for the Raptors because he, in many respects, kind of put them on the map. Back then it was what 99 and for the next few years it was the insanity and we're only 20 years removed from the uh the dunk the uh the half man half amazing uh showcase i was it was the first time i was in las vegas i was actually away with some buddies in las vegas and we were watching that and it was just when he

did that it's over it was like yeah wow that. You know, and let's face it, until last season, when we had real moments or whatever, that was like still like a de facto Raptor moment. And it wasn't even a game. It was kind of, that was the go-to moment before, maybe before the four bouncer from Kauai. Okay. ESPN. Like, how do you end up at ESPN? Because you go to ESPN after TSN, right? I did in, uh, in November of 2002, they asked me to come down for an audition, which I did

and they offered me a job and, uh, it was very, it was back and forth. I loved what I was doing at TSN and I just gotten married to my wife, Emma. And, you know, she has her career in Toronto and it was a really difficult decision. And we hemmed and hawed and hemmed and hawed and hemmed and hawed. And finally we agreed. We just said, you know, this is a great opportunity. So went down, uh, first week of December in

2002 and started working at ESPN. I think, yeah, I think, I mean, I can't speak for your wife, of course, but I think you got to go for it. Like if opportunity like that comes along, you got to go. I mean, like Jay and Dan will tell you, like, you got to go for that, right? Yeah. You know what? Um, I had covered a lot of major sporting events and every time I saw ESPN, you know, and, and the resources they had and the expertise they had and the innovation they used and what they were doing. And, you know, I was down at the world series and it's funny, I'm seeing like, we're feeding our tape because there was a reciprocal relationship between TSN and ESPN. So we're feeding our tape out of the ESPN truck.

And I see just the infrastructure in place. And I was like, wow, it felt like they're the big brother and we're the little brother. And to be able to join a big ship like that to me was very appealing and interesting. So, you know, ultimately we decided, let's see what happens. So is it like a regular job? You just tell TSN, like, and you give them notice or like, how does it work in the broadcast? Well, actually what happened,

my contract was expiring and, you know, TSN, it's funny, they didn't, it's not like they were prepared to, they kind of said, oh, well, good luck. So I said, maybe they want me out of here, I don't know. They might be, you know, you always hear about these moments.

I think Scott Moore was telling me like when he was recruiting somebody or other, and he said like, he took a paper and a pen and he writes down a number and he slides it across the, the table. And then, you know,

you know, look at the number and then you can cross it out and put a new number and it comes back. And, uh, that didn't happen for you at TSN there. No, I mean,

listen, we, we had, we had a few discussions and I think they understood it was a great opportunity and they were very fair. And, and I think they understood this was probably something that would be in my best interest to see what I could do down there and see what it would be like. And, you know, I was with ESPN from 2002 till 2010. So it was, it was a great run. I learned a ton of stuff. I met a lot of great people and, uh, you know,

still friends to this day and it was a great experience. So I don't regret any of stuff. I met a lot of great people and, you know, still friends to this day. And it was a great experience. So I don't regret any of it. My daughter was born in Connecticut when I was down there, which was very cool. But ultimately, we ended up coming back. My wife had been commuting back and forth and back and forth from Toronto. Oh, cool. Because she stayed working here.

She was working here. Well, that's tough. Yeah, it was very tough. And so then when we had our daughter, she took a year's maternity. And then she was working at the time with Fairmont Hotels. And they're like, well, are you coming? You know, she had a pretty senior role with them. And they, uh, then when we had our daughter, she took a year's maternity and then she was working at the time with Fairmont hotels. And they're like, well,

are you coming? You know, she had a pretty senior role with them and they're like, are you coming back? You're coming back. You're coming back. And she really wanted to go back to her job. And I was like trying to convince her to say,

why don't you go to New York? Why don't you, why don't we live? Don't they have Fairmont's in New York? You know, they actually do the plaza. Right. And I was sort of saying,

why don't you, um, you know, why don't you get a job in New York and I I'll work in Connecticut, and we'll live halfway between, and you'll commute 45 minutes this way, I'll commute 45 minutes that way. And thankfully, we didn't decide to do it. I mean, she just sort of said, you're an idiot. That's an insane idea, because we have a kid.

How's this going to work with our daughter? So coming back home, in many respects, was really beneficial. My parents were still here, and to have my kids around my parents was a really nice thing. And, you know, after I was done with ESPN, it was really nice to sort of jump ship and end up on NBA TV Canada and the NHL Network and ultimately Hockey Night in Canada.

Okay, so how long were you working in the States? So I was with ESPN 2002 to 2010. Okay, eight years, okay. But I lived in Connecticut till 2007. And that's when we had to make a decision. And then I went in and asked my, I was hosting shows at ESPN behind a desk. And I said, can I be a reporter based in Toronto?

And they thought I was kidding, right? Like, wait a minute, you want to leave here to go live in Toronto? Is that seen as a demotion of some kind? It certainly isn't seen as a promotion because, you know, you don't know the track you're on. A lot of the guys that I was sitting down hosting shows with

have gone on to do some pretty cool things. There's no guarantee I was going to be one of those guys, but certainly there was more upward mobility. I sold them on this. I just said, look, my wife wants to go back to her job. I'm at a bit of a crossroads here.

I said, we have the fourth biggest airport, the fourth biggest city in North America. At the time we had, you know, Roger Clemens and Roy Halliday, like at the time it made, I sort of sold them on it. You know, Vince Carter was just there. Like I was trying to sell them on the merits of, you know, you know, they were big, hot and heavy on the Yankees and Red Sox. I said, they're playing the Yankees and Red Sox 19 times. And they said, look, let's be honest. We're not going to do a lot of work out of Toronto. But the fact that you can fly around to other major cities, and I knew a lot of their other reporters were flying around all the time.

They actually said, do you want to work in Miami? Because we have an opening in Miami. And I was like, yes, I'd love to. But my wife will be getting divorced if I do that. So we came out to Toronto. And then I was a reporter for ESPN for three years. Gotcha. OK, I'm going to play a little bit of how you sounded on ESPN. Just a little bit here. David Amber has been standing

by live all morning in Tallahassee with the latest. And David, how are events expected to unfold there today? Good morning, Hannah. The very latest information we have is that Bobby Bowden did meet with school president TK Weatherill this morning at his house and Bobby Bowden has now called a two o'clock or 2 15 meeting with his players where he wants to formally announce his future decision and the decision we are expecting to hear is that he's going to relinquish his duties as the FSU head coach what we don't know is whether he'll adopt that ambassador role that you just mentioned or whether he'll just walk away from the FSU program altogether after 34 years, Hannah.

And it was confirmed. David, the team is a quite offensive coordinator. You know, just even when I was listening to this clip the other day when I was setting it up, and I was thinking, the states, forget the fact they're 10 times the people, and I don't know, the number of markets, just the fact that, you know, NCAA stuff and football and basketball, there's so much more.

No wonder someone like yourself would seek a career down there. There's just so much more. And let's face it, how would I know? I'm just the guy in his basement who's never worked in the industry, but there's a lot more green, right? There's a lot more money, right? There's got to be. First and foremost, I kind of am an american sports fan in many ways

i went to syracuse university and you get indoctrinated into that hole i love my favorite day of the year bar none is the first thursday of march madness i love that day i think that's the purest form of sport yeah i love college athletics so for me it was a dream come true every saturday uh during the basketball season i would be hosting a noon two four six eight o'clock game so we had quintuple headers and i'd be uh the host of their college basketball halftime so uh those sort of opportunities just don't exist here in canada so i was excited from that standpoint as far as the money standpoint goes uh yeah i mean listen you can make a lot the guys who make a lot of money in the states make a lot of money. And like the landscape is entirely different.

I mean, you can make a very good, honest living here in Canada. And, and, you know, I think you kind of got to hit that top 5% here in Canada to do quite well, uh, in the States, it's, it, there's a wider breadth and it's a bigger scale. Um, granted it's very cutthroat and the landscapes changed a lot too. It's funny. Um, um, there was a guy named Scott Clark. He was the, uh, WABC. So he was a local guy in New York for sports. He was making a million bucks a year. And I remember my agent calling me, this was, I don't know, eight, 10 years ago. He's like, David, we got to get a tape in Scott Clark's retiring from WABC. And I'm like, okay, you know, let's check it out. Calls me about an hour later. I say, forget that

job. And they just hired some kid from Dayton, Ohio. They're paying him like a hundred grand or something. And I'm like, oh, so they're the end of, like those jobs are done. And those, that whole landscape of, if you're in a top 15 market and you're in the top job in one of those top 15 markets,

the idea of making a million dollars, that's gone. That ship has sailed. But the network guys and the guy, you know, the top guys at ESPN and at Fox Sports and everything else, they make a very, very comfortable living um so yeah i mean there is that drive if that's what's drawing you but whenever people ask me hey i want to get in the

business and they start asking me how much money i make or how much money i said look if you want to make money don't get into broadcasting you know because it's nights weekends holidays chances are if that's your motivation go to law school you know be an investment banker i spend some time with these people because i do podcasts for them and uh that's where the money that's where the money and it's it's just a different path it's a more secure path because you could also be flavor of the month i saw some guys who signed some pretty big deals come into espn you know making seven figure or high six figure deals and they sign a three-year deal and then they're gone.

It's like, yeah, you know what? It didn't work out. You didn't bring us what we thought you were going to bring us or you're a pain in the butt to work with or whatever. And they were gone. And I'm thinking, yeah, that's great. You made 900 grand for three years, but then what? You know, whereas there's, there's different places where you can matriculate and there's,

is a more of an understood path you're going to take. I never would say to anyone coming to into broadcasting to make money, ever. I say the same thing about podcasting. Don't come into podcasting to get rich. Well, you've done well though. Listen, you got a thousand sponsors. I'm the 1%, David. I'm the 1%.

There you go. These results are not typical. But I just want to ask you about somebody, a Toronto guy who I watched on City TV who went on to ESPN and had quite the career, the late great John Saunders. I know Leo Roudens was very close with John Saunders, for example.

Yeah. But I always think of him as like sort of up the path, like, cause he's a local guy doing it. And then, then, then he became a, a BFD,

a big, big fucking deal. He was a really big deal and a very nice man. And I'm so lucky that I got a chance to work with him. I used to watch him. I was probably in, you know, mid, you know, elementary school, like grade seven, grade eight, junior school or whatever, junior high into high school, watching him on city TV. And, you know, as a minority, you look at him and go, wow, there's a guy, he kind of

looks like me and he's got this cool job. And it kind of opened my eyes to like, well, if he's doing it and I see guys like Mark Jones, Paul Jones, his older brother, if he's doing it. Um, so there were some guys that, you know, as a minority, you kind of looked at and say, wow, that's cool. You know, these doors are open. These guys have opened some doors and John Saunders, uh, one of the highlights of my time at ESPN was doing a football game here. They used to hold a college bowl game called the International Bowl. I remember this, yeah.

We had an all-Canadian. We had John Saunders, play-by-play. We had Jesse Palmer, the bachelor. Of course, I remember Jesse. Doing color. I was doing the field reporting. And it was fun. It was the International Bowl.

And John Saunders would be like, oh, we got the whole Canadian crew here. And I think we had our honorary American, like Doug Flutie was with us too. And it was fun it was the international bowl and john saunders would be like oh we got the whole canadian crew here and i think we had our honorary american like doug flutie was with us too and it was it was tremendous and it was just so much fun and john was the consummate pro yeah there you go you got your doug flutie uh bobblehead i love it yeah i because i consider him an honorary canadian so you know he's a great guy and i and i remember covering him in the cfl as well a couple of great great cups when they were dominant in 97, 98. That was it, man. You gave us a couple of great years.

So John Saunders is, you know, God rest his soul. He was a great man, a consummate professional. People loved working with him and as you said, he was a BFD because I tell you, at ESPN, he'd walk into the newsroom and there was certain guys who'd come in there and it was kind of like

royalty when Chris Berman would show up and when Keith Oberman and guys like that who would just, Dan Patrick, there was a certain presence. They had done so much in their careers and they carried themselves in a certain way. He was one of those guys. Now, I never got the pleasure of meeting John Saunders,

but I've had someone on the show who had some mentorship. I had a person of color who has a career in sports broadcasting who had spoken at lengths of John Saunders. And so according to him, John was of the opinion that he, he had more opportunities as a man of color in the USA.

I don't, I don't know. I'm not, I've never, I'm not a man of color, nor have I ever had a woman of color. Does he mean, does he mean compared to what the opportunities in Canada were?

Yes. Specifically compared to in Canada. Well, that's interesting. I mean, everyone has their own situation. I would say one thing is there's just more opportunity, period, in the States, right? Again, when I applied, there was 217 markets, every market had an ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox. So you're talking about 800 local setups to start with, and then you get to the networks and the regional networks. So it's just a bigger landscape. Canada's a very small media landscape in relative terms,

but John was an undeniable talent, and I'm sure doors were opened to him very quickly because of how good he was. And just to go back to U.S. as such a monster market, I mean, we know how they treat high school football and high school basketball. Like, you know, with a rare exception here and there, if you go to a good Toronto high school game,

you know, you sit in the benches and, you know, there's no comparison. And there's very, there might not be any, usually there's no local coverage of this event. There's an insatiable appetite depending on where you are. I mean, in Texas on a Friday night, it's bigger than, you know, almost anything. It's way bigger than the Argos, for example.

You can't even compare. Poor Doug. Yeah, Texas on a Friday night for high school football. I mean, you've seen Friday night lights. That's not over the top. That's how it is. You know, Oklahoma and those Midwest states, I mean, Ohio and Pennsylvania,

they take their high school football very, very seriously. And quite frankly, some states like Minnesota and Maine, they take their high school hockey very seriously. That's true. It's amazing. The Frozen Four, right? You know what? It's a different culture.

It's a more sporting culture. I think we love hockey here, and we love other sports, and we see basketball as this big developing sport here in this country. But they're fanatical in many respects. And I didn't realize the depth of it until I got down there and covering college football. And thank God it was before Twitter, because it just would have been tough to deal with when I would do college football and thank god it was before twitter because it just would have been tough to deal with you know when i would i do college football shows dealing with the people you know

letting you know that you're an idiot or whatever what bias you have block block block well we got to thank your wife so thank david ember's wife what's her name again emma emma for the fact that we get you back because it sounds like you'd be in miami right now having a whole there's a whole like alternate universe where you're in mi Miami and you're a whole different dude. She would have left me if we'd gone to Miami. If I said, sweetie, we're going to Miami, she'd be like, you're going to Miami later, buddy. So what opportunity here drew you

back? Well, I came back and I was a reporter for ESPN. For three years you were here based in Toronto doing ESPN work. And I did, in my time here, I think I did three stories in three years in Toronto. I did those international bowls I told you about. I did Ricky Williams when he joined the Argos.

They were interested in that. And I did the World Baseball Classic, if you remember. That was it. So I was on planes all the time. And it was also kind of crappy. Some things were scheduled, but a lot of the times I'd be with my two young kids or I'd be on the golf course. I'd be doing, I'd be sleeping and

Brett Favre's unretiring, get to Minneapolis. And it'd be like, oh shoot. So that kind of grew old after a while. People say, oh, the travel's glamorous. You know, I, God bless Arash Madani. This guy's on the road 220, 200. Have you seen him on your show? Yes, yes.

So I really am the last man. We call him on this show, he's known as Truro Arash. Try to say that really quickly. Truro Arash? Again. Truro Arash. You are a professional broadcaster. I don't know, what's the Truro part? Is that where he's from? It's where he's from in Nova Scotia. Okay, okay.

He's, and God bless him because he's on the road all the time. I didn't travel that much, but I traveled a lot. And sometimes, you know, like I'd covered a few NBA finals for ESPN and I covered a spring training. So I'd be gone for two, three weeks. It just got a little bit much. Uh, and then I was lucky enough.

Um, I just signed a three-year deal extension with ESPN, uh, about six months earlier, but I, I got two job offers at the same time for NBA TV Canada and for NHL Network. And I wasn't going to kind of leave for one of those opportunities, but together, and I sort of said, I can have the summers off and I can make this work and the money made sense. So I went for it. And ESPN was, you know, they kind of made me sweat it out a bit, but my agent was able to kind of walk me out of that contract, thankfully. Okay. So you're, yeah. So you're, that's essentially working for mlse right uh with the nba tv canada was mlse nhl network was under the league slash tsn umbrella at the time and uh and they were both really fun opportunities i was back in studio and

i was you know the raptors teams were horrible back then it was the barniani era and it was it was not yeah it was it was you know but it was. I was working with Leo. I was working with Jack. I was working with Sherm Hamilton, Paul Jones. You were right there. We were at Gate 5 Live. It was a lot of fun. We enjoyed it. But we're talking 60 loss season after 60 loss season. So I did that for a few years. And then thankfully Hockey Night in Canada

came calling and I've been there since. So we talked earlier about the $5.2 billion 12-year deal. Essentially, you're a big fan of that deal. This gets you talking in Canada, right? They're ramping up, right? Well, yeah. I mean, I think we're in our sixth year of the 12-year deal.

And there's been a lot of change. Really? We haven't noticed. You know what? It's been great. And it's funny. I, the guys make fun of me a lot.

I'm the, I'm the brunt of their jokes because every Saturday I'm literally, I've got the pom poms out. Like I am cheering for all seven Canadian teams because I see what happens when the Canadian teams don't have success. There's massive overhaul and it's less stability for us. And quite frankly, I think,

and I never thought about this in the eighties because the Stanley cup basically resided in Canada, all those great Oilers teams and the Canadiens teams and everything else, the Flames. And it's been 27 years and counting. It's been a long time. And quite frankly, whether it's the Leafs, whether it's Winnipeg, whether it's Ottawa, I think the country's going to sort of be interested to kind of have the Cup back here. It was fun watching Ovechkin celebrate.

It was fun last year with the Blues celebrating. But it'd be really nice to have a Canadian fan base be able to celebrate something that we kind of took for granted 25, 30 years ago. Well, I mean, you speak for David Amber. I personally, there's only one Canadian-based franchise I want to see win the Stanley Cup, and I don't know if that makes me a bad Canadian.

I don't know, but I don't want to watch another Canadian-based team win the Stanley Cup. It's got to be Toronto. A lot of people feel that way about their home base. But I do believe, let's say Vancouver. They're putting together a kind of magical season. Let's say they have a deep playoff run. I think there'll be a level of interest.

Yeah, to root against them. But even different than 2011. For sure. 2011, you know, I think people are like, oh yeah, whatever, if the Bruins win, great, and if Vancouver wins, whatever. I think they'll just be a heightened interest. And maybe I'm just projecting my own personal feel on it. I don't

know. I just, I want it to be something that people kind of rally behind, and I'd love to see some of the Canadian teams have some traction. And I mean, most importantly for you, it'll be good for Rogers Sports Net, which is important. Yes, listen, it's all about me, let's face it. I know, quite honestly, and it's funny, because people, I'm

sitting there, and I'm getting angry, you know, the Leafs are losing, and this team's losing, and I'm getting angry, and people are like, calm down. I go, calm down, we're all going to be out of jobs in a year. Oh yeah, that one year, that one year were no Canadian teams, and that's tough to do, really. Like, that's really difficult to orchestrate, to have them all

miss. Usually, you know, that's amazing. But okay, we're going to pause for a moment, and then we're going to get you back to Hockey Day in Canada. I have more questions, but I want to give you some gifts. You've come a long way. How far did you come? Like, what part of the city do you live in? You know St. Mike's Arena?

Which where are we? St. Bathurst in St. Clair. Oh, yes, okay. So it wasn't that bad. It was 25 minutes drive. All right, I'm not going to give you the whole six back then. Sorry, I came from Montreal. I want you to come from't that bad. It was 20, 25. All right. I'm not going to give you the whole six pack then. Sorry. I came from Montreal.

I want you to come from Sault Ste. Marie. I walked from Sault Ste. Marie. Great Lakes Brewery is the best partner a podcast could ever have. I know you guys are Rogers. You got a whole thing of Budweiser. That's fine.

That's fine. Budweiser's, they're a big company, huge company. My friends at Great Lakes Brewery are fiercely independent. So I just like the fact I can actually, can you talk to the owner of Budweiser? Try to do that one day.

But I can do that at Great Lakes. And I like the, the beer is fresh. It's tasty and local. And there's a six pack for you, David. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'll take that home with you. I will.

Yesterday, Anwar Knight says to me, he wants a chicken lasagna and in my freezer I had meat and vegetarian lasagnas. Would you take a meat lasagna or a vegetarian lasagna? Don't say chicken. I will take whatever you...

What's your preference? Is there any vegetarians in the home? No, we are carnivores, so maybe the meat lasagna will work. See, if you eat meat, I personally, and I am a carnivore as well, I think the meat lasagna will work. See, if you eat meat, I personally, and I am a carnivore as well, I think the meat lasagna is tastier. So I'm going to give you meat lasagna.

Thank you very much. Okay, that's courtesy of Palma Pasta. Palma's Kitchen, great partners of the show. Your box is actually in the freezer, but make sure you have it before you leave here today. Go to palmapasta.com. You can cater your events at home and the office. And you can go to Skip the Dishes

and get yourself some fresh, tasty Palma's pasta. In fact, you should do that. Pause the episode and do that and then come back. Okay, so thank you, Palma Pasta. I have a Toronto mic sticker for you courtesy of StickerU, stickeru.com. If you need any, now that you've got a theme song, amber is the color of energy.

I envision like amber and like rain, and different colors. And that's your like, that's your logo. And you got to get stickers made up. So you go to StickerU.com and you do that.

Actually, I'm marketing for you here. I was going to say, you got a thing happening here. You noticed that. There is something happening here. I'm just trying to, can't really define it. But yeah. In fact, I'll put it on your car before you drive away.

Duncan Fremlin, I call him Banjo Dunk. He's a great friend of the show. That's his book. He spent, he worked with Stomp and Tom Connors. And that book is called My Life and Times of Stomp and Tom. Again, Duncan Fremlin. He's a great guy. In fact, let's hear

from Dunk himself. This is Banjo Dunk, and for the last few weeks, you've been hearing my ads on Toronto Mic'd about the Big Stompin' Tom show coming up on April 16th, 2020. But there's another Banjo Dunk production that's happening very soon. My music buddy Douglas John Cameron and I, known internationally as Doogie and Dunn, are going to be performing in Oakville at the Moonshine Cafe on February 27th, not too far from Toronto Mike Head Office.

So, if you live in Toronto, Oakville, Mississauga, Burlington, Milton, and surrounding areas, you'll find all the information you need at themoonshinecafe.com. We look forward to seeing you on February 27th. Thank you, Banjo Dunk. All right, David, we got you at Hockey Dine Canada. Congrats, by the way, because that is the, if you're going to be on a Canadian show, that's the big one. Yeah, I mean, this is what we grew up watching.

Every Saturday, it was 8 o'clock back then, not 7 or not 6.30. It was 8 o'clock. I don't remember it at 8 o'clock. What year do you think that changed up? I'm older than you, I imagine. You don't think you're much older than me. I've been having this thought in my head the last nine minutes. I'm 32. How old are you?

Well, I am 33 years old. I don't know when it changed from eight to seven, but I remember I was pissed. I was like, oh, what are they doing? They're screwing everything. And I was like, oh, a doubleheader. Okay, that's cool. Right. They got you back there.

So, yeah, I mean, I guess it depends. How much do you remember of the Dave Hodge era? A lot. Okay, so I think you are a bit older than me. Yeah, I mean, that whole crew, Gary Doernopper, yeah, the whole crew. I'm a little bit older. I graduated high school in 89.

You're not over 60, are you? I just turned 64. I think you get a couple years on me, but not too many. But, you know, it's sports that I remember distinctly when they launched the new Hockey Night in Canada, the same year you joined, and they said, okay, here's the young, fresh faces of Hockey Night. There's Jeff Merrick and George Strombolopoulos. And I remember thinking, yeah, these are all a bunch of 40-something-year-old guys you've got.

These are not exactly kids here, but I guess it's all relative. Okay, so you join Sportsnet, and you serve as a reporter for Hockey Night in Canada in the 2014-2015 season. That's year one of the big deal, right? I also was the regional host for the Edmonton Oilers. So I did some in studio. We had 52 regional Oiler games and I'd be with John Shannon, Louis DeBrusque. We'd be in studio. We'd send it out to Kevin Quinn and Drew Remenda and Gene Principe. God love Gene Principe. He'd be a great guest for your show next time. I'd do that. Yeah, he's a fantastic guy. And those other teams weren't very good, unfortunately. So I kind of went from covering the Raptors' 60 lost seasons

to the Oilers' 60 lost seasons. So I did, for the first two years, I was the Oiler regional host, as well as a Hockey Night in Canada rink reporter. Gotcha, gotcha. By the way, shout out to my wife, who's from Edmonton. Nice. Yes, it is nice, I think.

City of Champions. I know it's been a while, but they can still call themselves that? Let's just hold on to that as long as we can. Well, I'm going to make Toronto the City of Champions. We've got the one. And I count the MLS Cup we won, too, a few years ago. That was a championship. Yes, and so things are happening.

And the 905 team won, right? Things are happening. And the Marlies won. Things are happening. Yeah, let's get a few more here. Okay, so... Okay, let's talk about my pal Strombo. So Strombo, famously...

And this is news to nobody listening to the show, but of course, when they do the relaunch of the new big deal, Strombo comes in as like the new host. Like, so he's now the host and they don't give him a lot of time because he's ousted in 2016, I think. Strombo's ousted.

After two years, yeah. And they bring back, basically, they restore, I would say, restore Ron McLean in the role. It's a brutal industry. And remember those stories I was telling you about, Bangor, Maine, 142 tapes? It is a very cutthroat industry.

It's always a lot of, what have you done for me lately? If you're looking for great job security, this is not the field to pursue your career, and it just isn't. And a lot of talented people, and it's not any fault of their own, have found their way on the wrong end of things. And, you know, we've all been there. And, you know, there's not much else I can say to that

except I think no Canadian team is making the playoffs. And, you know, I think they sort of said, well, maybe we'll hit the reset button here. And there was a bit of a reset button pushed. So bring back Ron and George is out. And that's too bad. But this does present another opportunity for you, right? Am I right?

Is there an opportunity for you here? I was shocked. One of the biggest surprises in all my time in broadcast journalism is I was actually co-hosting, or it was Bob McAllen's show, it was primetime sports, and I was sitting beside him for the first hour of the show. And we're about to go on the air at 4 o'clock. It's 3.58 and my phone rings and it's Scott Moore. And I'm like, if he's going to fire me, then I'm walking off.

I'm walking, McCowan, you're on your own. And he's like, are you busy? I say, well, actually, yeah, I'm in the building. I'm about to be on the air with Bob McCowanown he said okay come see me after so i went and saw him after and he just said here's what we're thinking uh we'd like you to do the the second game and i i didn't know what to say i mean i was surprised i didn't know about any of the other plans at all i didn't know about anything they just said hey are you able to do the what would you think of doing the second game on the west Coast game on Saturday nights?

We think it'd be a great opportunity for you. And I basically said, you know, thanks for the opportunity. That sounds like a really good situation. You know, I didn't know at this point, none of the other chips had fallen. I didn't know anything about what was going on. So I wasn't sure. Yes, I got you. They didn't present it to me as, yeah, I didn't know anything.

I, you know, and I didn't ask questions, you know, in this industry, you kind of, you know, I certainly wasn't something I was lobbying for. See, I would be bad in your industry because I'd ask a lot of questions. Well, I mean, I knew, you know, there'd been a lot of speculation. There'd already been a couple of changes and I knew there were more to come, but I didn't know how the whole puzzle was going to be reconfigured. And I said, you know, well, it sounds like a great opportunity. Thanks.

I mean, at this point, everyone was sort of thinking who's next, what's going to happen. And, uh, you know, the, we were sort of told, you know, there's going to be changes made at the end of the season. And so I didn't know, you know, once you get a call from your big, big boss, you're like, oh boy, this, this could be a problem. But, uh, I was fortunate. And again, timing is everything, right? You know, I get that call on, on November 1st, uh, from Sue St. Marie. If I don't get that call and it's two months later, maybe I've said, screw it. It's been a year. I'm going to try a different field. A lot of people I went to school with at Syracuse. Um, you know, there was, we had a graduating class of 40 something,

I think about four or five of us ended up on air. A few of them have done quite well. Um, but there was probably about 20 of us who aspired to do on-air things. And the other 15, and there were some very talented people, but the opportunities never presented themselves. And some of them, I was lucky enough to be able to just crash at my parents' house. They weren't charging me rent and I was going about my business.

A lot of people, you know, especially the American kids, I mean, Mike, they were sitting on 150, $200,000 of debt. So they didn't say I have a year's, you know, I came out of McGill University with no debt. I got a TA position at Syracuse University. So I came out of there with no debt and my parents helped me a little bit. Right. So, you know, I was in a very, I was afforded a very

comfortable situation compared to some of my peers. And the point I'm making is, you know, it's all about timing. And this was just fortuitous timing for me. And the reason that, you know, the late night, so Ron's doing the early, the 7 o'clock game and then Ron's got to get his butt to wherever hometown hockey is. What a schedule he has. Two weeks ago he went from Yellowknife

to Ottawa. I mean, there's no direct flights there. He had to go like Yellowknife. He was on the show during the period when, he was in before this shakeup, I think. I can't remember when Ron was on the show. Ron was always doing hometown hockey. Yeah, but he loves hometown hockey, like

where it's important to him to keep that. So when he's negotiating the return or whatever, he's like, I think part of the deal is he gets to keep doing hometown hockey. Like that's so important to Ron. You've had Ron on the show. I had Ron on the show. What number was he? What am I? 587? 587. Might be my favorite on the show. I had Ron on the show. What number was he? I'm five. What am I? 587?

587. Might be my favorite one yet. Might be my favorite one yet. A couple of things here just before we move on is that, uh, you mentioned Bobcat there quickly. So what can you tell me? Uh, like,

I don't know how often you did his show or whatever, but, uh, what was like, and I asked this because Bob, of course, uh, I don't know if you noticed,

he's not on primetime sports anymore. Yeah. But today, like a minute, maybe a minute before you knocked on my door, I saw a tweet from Bob McAllen. It just said, PTS coming soon. This is the tweet from Bob McAllen. So I have no, and of course, no one knows what that means. Most traumatic syndrome.

Well, PTS might stand for primetime sports. That's very clandestine and that's typical Bob. Bob is one of the most talented broadcasters there is. And I assume he sat down and sort of figured out what are my best options moving forward. And I can't wait to hear what's next for him. I mean, again, it goes back to it. I mean, there's a ton of people with incredible talent

who are outside of the marketplace right now. And it's not by any fault of their own. It's because they don't want to work for 35,000 a year. Is that correct? I can't speak to that, but it's, it's circumstance. I mean, the landscape has changed dramatically and, uh, you know, Bob, I'm sure has many, many options and we'll wait to see where he, where he comes out. But was it, uh, enjoyable to be on primetime sports? Yeah. I mean, he runs the ship in a great way. He's kind of a master.

When you're sitting there watching a guy do this or you're listening to a guy for all these years and suddenly you're sitting next to him, it's kind of a pinch you moment. It's kind of like, wow, this is cool. Okay, because he's not, I don't know if you know, he's not universally beloved by people who have... Well, I'm not going to pretend to be best friends with him.

I mean, we're not like buddy-buddies going out for beer. You're not having wine with him. I think he's a wine guy. But being on the show was very cool. And it's a great platform. And he was nothing but professional and nice to me. And I have nothing bad to say. Get out of here until you have something bad to say.

Bob McCallum, then come back. Okay. So Matt, Matt's a fan of yours. Big fan of Sportsnet. I get so many tweets and emails from this Matt and he's often playing like, who's the new Scott Moore? Jordan Banks?

Okay, yes. Or Bart Yapsley? Whoever's in charge of it all now. Well, Jordan Banks has sort of taken over, I guess, for Rick Brace and Bart Yapsley's basically taken over for Scott Moore. Well, I think Matt wants that job. So Matt says,

hi, I have a question for David Amber. First, what was it like working with great guys like ron mclean and then he says second question is he just wants to pump the tires of the great carolyn cameron who he says is a star a rising star so she's been on the show too i know that makes you feel bad because it took so long to get you here now uh just maybe a moment about uh working with ron mclean well first of all and i don't even know if Ron would remember this, when I decided I kind of wanted to get into sports broadcasting, and I was

17, 16, 17 at the time, and I just wanted to, you know, I watch Hockey Night in Canada religiously. You know, I was a fanatic, and my father crossed paths with Ron, and I was able to kind of go in and meet Ron and Don after one of their coaches' corners, and take a picture with them and everything.

I've never even brought this up with him because I don't want to be too fanboyish. But having said that, Ron has been an exceptional mentor. First of all, man, that guy is so talented. He is the only person I know of that could do the Rogers Hometown Hockey. What he and Tara Sloan do, it's incredible. She's been on the show too, by the way.

Should I walk out of here? I'm taking my lasagna. I'm taking my six-pack. I'm taking my book, it's incredible. The connection. She's been on the show too, by the way. Should I walk out of here? I'm taking my lasagna. I'm taking my six pack. I'm taking my book and I'm out of here. You know what? He's an exceptional broadcaster and a great guy. And he's been a great mentor for me. And when I did hear the plans

and getting the late night Saturday, he was the first person I called and just sort of said, you know, I'd kind of want to touch base with him. We'd worked together, but in a different capacity and he's been incredibly supportive and we've done some Olympic games together he's just a great guy I uh I really like Ron respect him and the way he connects personally I mean 20 people will walk in the room we give these tours a hockey night and he knows everyone's name and he's he's just an engaging guy he's his memory like i write everything down

i don't know i'm getting old and you know i'm 64 i imagine right so uh i i write everything down uh he he's just his mind is a vault so uh i've learned a lot about broadcasting and he also treats everyone incredibly well which i think is important you know i will say i worked at espn and most of the people were great but there were some there were some big egos there and some people I could do without. And, uh, and I don't like to say, and I'm not naming names or anything like that,

but there were just some people that I thought, you know what? I get it. You're a talented broadcaster, but so what? You still got to respect your colleagues and humans. Yeah. And I was brought up to treat,

whether it's the CEO or the janitor, it doesn't really matter. You treat people well and that'll come back to you and, and you don't disrespect people and you treat people with dignity and everything else. And Ron's like that. He really carries himself. He could be a real arrogant jerk if he wanted to be

and he's not at all. And Carolyn, to answer the question, Carolyn is a rising star. Matt is 100% right and she's a great person as well. She loves tennis and loves hockey and we've had a chance to work together a little bit, uh, more recently we were down at the all-star weekend in St.

Louis. So we actually got a chance to spend some time together. She has been dodging me though. I do want a singles match with her in tennis and she'll probably have me running around the court, but I, uh, I gotta get that done and I'll report back to you how it goes.

Rising star. Yeah. We had a great, great, great chat. Now, uh, Ron McLean,

I'm with you on all those points. Uh, do you, did you feel any kind of a sense, like a weight on the shoulders, any kind of burden to kind of take, I mean, I know that's Strombol to the two years, but Strombol was Strombol. And I love Strombol for being Strombol. And that's probably why he only lasted two years, because he was Strombol. And some people wanted Ron McLean,

and now this guy is very different than Ron. But do you, is it important to you to stay David Amber and not try to be Ron when you're doing that hosting duty? Listen, I'd feel, I'm not have a hard enough time being David Amber. I would fail miserably if I tried to emulate someone else.

You know, listen, when I got this position, I'm in my fourth season now doing the hosting of Hockey Night. I would be 20 years almost into the business. I know who I am. I know the strengths I bring. I'm always prepared. I'm a credible voice.

I have a lot of passion. I want it to be an escape for people the way sports has been an escape for me. I mean, I talked with unbridled enthusiasm about this Raptors run. This is not me BSing you. Right, no. I mean, I was into it. It's fun. Sports fun sports is fun and to me this is what it should be the broadcast should be you learn some things but you're entertained and you're having fun it's an escape so i'm me i i can't go there and try and you know do what ron does and i'd be exceptionally bad at

that and i you can't try and be strong or try and be someone i have to be who i am and i i'm comfortable enough in my own shoes and i've had enough success in my own shoes to, to feel comfortable doing that. So. Good, good, good, good. Now I've had a few, uh, Hockey Night in Canada, uh, people since, uh, what I call Cherry Gate. Okay. And Kyle Bukaskas, for example, and, uh, some others, uh, whose names will come to me in a moment. But, uh, so I just want to know maybe how much, how honest you could be, but what it was like in the eye of the storm during this period of time,

it seemed like there were a couple of weeks where the Canadian sports landscape, all eyes were on a hockey night in Canada and what was going to happen to Don Cherry and what's the aftermath of Don Cherry and what's going to be happening after the first period. Now that there's no more Don Cherry and then Don starting the podcast and there's a great debate. I mean, they were trying to fire a lady on the social

out of this. This is how crazy things got. Things feel like they've calmed down now, I think, as things do. But can you tell us what it was like to be there at this what I would call tumultuous time at your place of work? Well, it's difficult.

You look at everything on a personal level. I mean, Don's been nothing but incredibly nice and professional with me. And, you know, I always like talking hockey with him. And I don't have anything bad to say about Don Cherry. And then you see this sort of firestorm start up and you're like, wow, like this is a difficult situation. And I understand it. We're in a place in society now where, you know, things have changed. firestorm start up and you're like wow like this is a difficult situation um and and i understand it we're in a place in society now where you know things have changed the meter has changed on what people consider acceptable and uh it's very conflicting because you understand people's

take on it and you know being upset about things and at the same time you sort of see don is this great benevolent guy who's done as much for hockey as anyone in the history of the game, really. I mean, the way he's promoted the game, he's out at the rinks, he's meeting with kids,

he's promoting safety, he's promoting, uh, playing the game the right way. Uh, he loves the game with an enthusiasm that is unmatched. Um,

all those things are a hundred percent true. Uh, so it's a very conflicting, difficult time, which is why this made, uh, for Canadians across this country, it made for like fascinating debates

during coffee or beer or whatever, like Canadians getting together and debating this whole thing. And I know on this show, we talked about it at that time for that two-week period there where it was just so, it felt crazy.

There was a lot of debates on this show and discussion about, you know, should he be ousted? Should he have been ousted years ago? Like, did we change or, you know, did we change or did Don change? Like, there's just so many dynamics here. And I felt the same thing. I walk my dog all the time.

My kids kind of refuse to. My wife, it's like once in a while. What kind of dog is this? It's, it's a fancy name for a mutt. It's called a Ganna Raskin. It's a mix of a bunch of things. That is a very fancy name for a mutt. It's a great, I love it. It sounds pretentious when you call a dog that, just call it a mutt. I call it a mutt because it just sounds better, but she's very, she's an adorable dog. I walk her and that's all anyone wanted to talk to you about. I mean, I was getting stopped everywhere, you know, the grocery store or wherever. You know, what's going on? What happened?

And everyone had their own take. Everyone felt they were wrong. You know, everyone was upset. No one was happy, and it was a very difficult thing to navigate through, and it's a very conflicting situation. So, you know, it's a funny, and we talked about this a little bit earlier in this conversation about how polarizing society is right now, and I think we saw that that moment was one of those polarizing, you know,

people on this side of the equation, people on that side of the equation. You're absolutely right. And you had people in the camp of like, I'm canceling my Rogers services and I'll never watch or be a Rogers customer again for how, and then those people probably, I want to talk to those people by the way, cause there are some people who made those bold statements and I want to know when the Leafs are in game seven and the first round again, let's say it's Boston again, let's say one more time, game seven.

I want to make sure I want to know these people are not watching that game. Okay. Cause they'll be watching. But anyway, I guess so tough times there. I do did feel for Ron. We talked a lot about Ron McLean. We,

I think we both like him. I think that's fair to say. And he, I think a lot. We talked a lot about Ron McLean. Uh, we, I think we both like him. I think that's fair to say. Uh, and he, I think a lot of this, some of the stink got rubbed. I don't want to, that's the right expression,

but some of the stink got rubbed off on him in that a lot of people wanted to, uh, blame him for things, you know, Don said. And then I, and then there was a question of like, should he have stopped down and corrected him?

Or why did he, uh, why, why in real time there? And you can relate to this better than anyone on the planet besides Ron McLean, probably. But with somebody talking in his ear, he's about to throw to a video. It's live, at least live to tape. Should he have known better than to just proceed and do a thumbs up?

Like, I don't know what you would have done. Did you ever think what would you have done if you were Ron McLean? Yeah, I think Ron was caught in a very difficult situation and I think you spelled out all the different things that were happening at the time. I mean, I understand television and people in the industry understand, you know, if you go back and watch the tape, and I actually

haven't watched it, but if you go back and watch what happened. You never watched it? Well, I was there live when it happened. I didn't really need to relive it. You didn't do like the Zapruder film, right? Oh look, there's a second shooter. And there was a lot going on. And from a TV standpoint, you do have a producer in your ear and he's sort of telling you,

hey, we're drawing to this piece. There's a lot going on. So you have that whole sensitivity too. There was a lot going on and I feel that's the one thing I take away from this is I feel really badly for Ron. I think he's been caught in a, in a impossible situation. And I think, you know, I can sit here and say it's conflicting on for me, but for him, it's, we're talking a whole nother level of issues

and I'm not going to speak for Ron that, that, you know, get him here. Let's call him up. You got a cell number? 588. You can get him back here. But it's, you know, what I don't like is the nastiness that we've seen after that moment projected to a lot of different people, including Ron. And I just, I'd like to think we're more civil and we're better than that.

But I think the ugliness has really come out and certain people, especially when you could be anonymous and you could be, whether it's on social media, I call it anti-social media and i called it anti-social media long before this incident because you know i haven't had a number of horrible things but i've had a enough you know idiots there that it's like really you want to put out this negative energy or you whatever you know if you think i suck or you don't like this about me that's fine you don't there's

a lot of things i don't like but but I'm not out there on Twitter actively telling people how bad they are at this or that. Yeah, it is really sad to take the time to tweet at a broadcaster that you don't like their work. Why not just not watch like we used to do? A lot of it's not constructive, but a lot of it's personal, right?

To me, there's just I don't surround myself in that space. When you say personal, you mean because they don't think you're a hockey guy? Like, what do you mean by personally? I mean, listen, I would say 99% positive. Yeah, I mean, I think you'd have to tell me. Well, I mean, they were like, he's not a hockey guy. And they'll be saying, oh, look, you're at ESPN.

You're not doing a lot of hockey. And then you're Raptors guy. And maybe they don't see you as a true hockey guy. Yeah, I mean, I'm not so worried about trying to prove myself to anyone, and if there's going to be people who can't identify you because of how you look or what your background is, then that's really on them.

It's not on me. If they want to put you in a certain box, then that's what they're going to do, right? No matter what you do. Haters going to hate. Haters going to hate. Haters going to hate. And you know what? And you know, you grow up, you know,

my parents kind of instilled that in my sisters. There's going to just be people that, for whatever reason, aren't going to like something about you, you know? And you kind of have to just understand that and not let that, you can't bear the burden of their anger or their, you know, often their their jealousy i would say well often that what they don't like is that you're not the person they liked before like usually it's change right like it's like i think that was really a big knock on strombo was like oh we liked ron there on

saturday nights doing that and now he's been pushed off so you can do this we don't like the change it's so incredibly subjective and i and remember talking to Chris Berman about this, and Chris Berman, who is one of the most storied broadcasters you'll ever find, he would say, and I can't do a good Berman, but anyways, he would basically say, half the people are going to love you, half the people are going to hate you,

and that's just how it is. And it's true. And you've got to be true to who you are. And to me, I can sleep at night knowing what you know, what I'm bringing to the table. If there's ever a day I'm coming in and I'm not prepared and I don't care and I'm not bringing passion or enthusiasm, then I'm not doing my job. Then I know the chips will fall as they may. But I can be comfortable knowing, you know, you can only really take care of yourself.

And as you said, haters are going to hate. But having said all that, this isn't a woe is me situation. Um, you know, this was in respect to the fallout after the Don Cherry situation. And there just was a lot of, uh, negativity and, and, uh, I understand people being upset a hundred percent. I just don't think it should end up being, you know, people physically threatening people and calling people names. I just, I hate to see that level of anger. Okay, last uncomfortable question for you. You promise? I promise.

Okay. The seat's gonna cool down after this last question. And it shouldn't be uncomfortable, but it's in the aftermath of the Cherrygate, there were discussions about, I would read things from people like Garvia Bailey and other people of color that I follow on

Twitter and that I'm friends with and have been on the show who would talk about how they felt hockey was not particularly inviting to non-white people. Like it was too white, basically. And then I contrast that. I compare and contrast to the Raptors run and I

went to the parade and essentially it was the whole city you and two million people right right that was the whole city and uh if you looked at a jurassic park during a playoff game very diverse uh you know black people asian people white people uh very very diverse uh people and if you watched uh maybe the leafs versus Bruins game seven, and you looked at Leafs, what do they call it for that? A Maple Leaf square.

Very, very, very, very white. So you're a man of color who loves hockey, grew up watching hockey in Canada, and now you host hockey night in Canada, which I think that's amazing.

That's like one of the best jobs in the country. If you want to be a sports broadcaster, did you always feel invited into the club? Like, did you always feel like you belonged in the hockey, uh, in hockey fandom, even though you weren't a white guy? Um, yeah, by and large, I mean, listen, there's individual incidences that have happened. And if you talk to any person, you know, who looks like me, who's in the hockey world, whether they're a player, a GM, you know, whatever, whatever, there's been situations, right? I mean, I grew up playing hockey.

So we used to have tournaments in Buffalo and, you know, stuff would happen inevitably. You know, like... Like racist stuff? Yeah, you know, just, you know... Yeah, because I don't... The thing is, I don't know. That's why I need you to tell me because I've...

Yeah, I mean, stuff would happen, you know, and that's just... Granted, this is the early 1980s and I'm not saying it wouldn't happen now. I mean, we would happen, you know, and that's just, granted, this is the early 1980s, and I'm not saying it wouldn't happen now. I mean, we're seeing incidences have happened recently, right? I mean, we saw an incident not that long ago that we reported on that happened in an NHL game in Bakersfield. So things still do happen, and the NHL is working really diligently to make sure hockey is as diverse and inclusive. It's got to be both those things, right?

It's not just about diversity, but people feeling welcomed and included. There's someone named Kim Davis, and she's brought in by the league to really be the head person to sort of say, how can we make our game as inviting to everyone? And it's a social and a cultural plan, and quite frankly, it's an economic plan. Because if you look at the demographics, if you're going to alienate a group of people, you're going to be out of business down the road. I had a chance to sit down with David Stewart, one of the owners

of the St. Louis Blues not too long ago, African-American, minority owner of the St. Louis Blues. And he just said, we've got to make a better job of including people. And it's from the grassroots. I'll be honest with you, though, as much as it's about race, and that's something that's got to be worked on, making sure everyone feels welcomed. Socioeconomics, to me, is the greater concern moving forward. I have a son who plays in the GTHL. He's 13 years old. You know, I don't know about this year. We're not at the finale yet. But last year was upwards of $8,000, $9,000. We're lucky.

We had two working parent household, and we can afford it. But that's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. Because your kid's good. That was the mistake. My kids were never good enough to cost that much money. They just played house league.

I mean, it's a business, though, Mike. I know. It's a lot of money. And I think what you're really doing is you're not being inclusive. So a lot of people who just, it's, you're asking people to pay seven, eight, nine, $10,000. That's pre-tax. So you're talking about $20,000. Like think about that. That's a lot of money. So I think that to me, if I'm Hockey Canada, the number one thing I'm working towards is let's make this game accessible. And once it's accessible and people come in, they fall in love with the game,

brown, Asian, Latin, whatever, that won't really matter. It'll transcend all of that. It's really just a matter of can people at any socioeconomic level have a chance to come out and enjoy the game, participate in the game, fall in love with the game.

Because that's the one thing when you look at soccer, you look at basketball, it's easy. It's affordable. You know, my son plays rep basketball. It's one seventh the cost, right? It's just much, much, much less expensive. You know what?

You earned every beer in that six pack. You earned the lasagna. Honestly, you kicked ass and you were so forthright and honest. And I just appreciate you tolerating my many, many pestering questions here today. It was a little hot in the hot seat. It's been hotter for others. Don't worry. Amber, you had it easy.

Good. Amber is the color of my energy. Don't forget to download that song. It's your new theme song. And thanks again, again man for coming here and giving me over 90 minutes of your life

wow yeah thanks so much I was told I was paid by the word is that true? no who told you that? that is not you at all

thanks for having me Mike and that brings us to the end of our 587th show I should have had Amber on much much earlier than this I feel great shame

you can follow me on Twitter I'm at Toronto Mike David you're at David Amber hundred and eighty seventh show I should have had Amber on much much earlier than this I feel great shame you can follow me on Twitter I'm at Toronto Mike David you're at David Amber just so you know in case you want to follow yourself

everyone should follow David at David and on the anti-social network our friends at Great Lakes brewery or at Great Lakes beer Palma pastas at Palma pasta sticker

you is that sticker you the Kite-ner group rat the Kite-ner group K-E-I-T-N-E-R. And BanjoDunk is at banjoDunk. See you tomorrow when my special guest is Sass

Jordan. Wow. We'll be right back. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.