Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - David Baerwald: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1907

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

In this 1907th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with David Baerwald about David+David, his solo work, co-writing Leaving Las Vegas with Sheryl Crow, writing Come What May for Moulin Rouge, and The Fire Agent, his debut novel. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball,Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

Hi, I'm David Bearwald, author of The Fire Agent, and I'm happy to be on my Toronto Mike debut. Welcome to episode 1,907 of Toronto Mike, an award-winning podcast, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great Lakesbeer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Visit palmapasta.com for more. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Catch a game at Christie Pits this summer.

No ticket required. Fusion Corp's own Nick Aini's. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline and Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recycle My Lime. Electronics.C.A. committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today making his Toronto mic debut. It is in fact, David, Bearwall. Welcome, David.

Well, thank you. And happy to be here. No, it's happy to meet you. I noticed you're identifying as a novelist now. Is that the preferred descriptor for David Bearwald now? If you have to choose, yeah. You have to choose. No, what I'm excited to uncover with you is sort of the pivot. Like, legendary singer-songwriter turned novelist. That's a, you're good at too many things, David.

I think you've got to pick a lane and stay in it. How dare you be great at two different disciplines? Yeah, I get a lot of flack for that. Well, I'm upset over here. Okay. So I'm glad you're here, but if you don't mind, maybe I can start bugging you about some music stuff. And then, of course, we'll turn the page, pun intended.

And we're going to talk about the fire agent, your first novel, which is available now. Right, David? It'll be available starting on Tuesday, I believe. Tuesday. Okay. So it all comes back to Cheryl Crow. It'll be available, what, Tuesday Night Music Club. Okay.

Yeah. Can I play a song? and then you can sort of help us get there and then we can build from there. How does that sound? Sure. You're not allowed to say no. You've got to say yes to everything.

So, just a little bit of a song, not the whole thing. Name that tune, David. This would be, welcome to the boomtown by the very handsome band, David and David. David. David squared. That was rejected. name. You went with David and David.

You know, I don't remember exactly how that happened. It's a stupid name, though. I regret it now. Well, let's hear a bit of it. Then I have questions. Miss Christina drives a 944. Satisfaction. She loses from her poor. She keeps dreams on her thing, marbled on her floor. Cocaine in her dresses, bars on her door.

Top 40 Billboard hit David. Yeah, man. All right, how the hell did we get here? Maybe give us a little, like, did you always want to be a musician? How do you end up with David and David? How important is it to you that we stylize it as David plus symbol, David? That's a lot of questions there, everyone. Take your time, David, please.

It's a Friday afternoon. Take your time. So did I always want to be a musician professionally? No, it never occurred to me that one could even do that. It just sort of happened. You know, we, oh, you know, I was working through some machines. And my friend David Ricketts had a, he'd gotten a Porta Studio task cam 244, and a June 060, and an MXR, a drum machine, and a DX7, Yamaha DX7, and an SM57 microphone, and a boss compressor and delay.

that was our rig and we just started just writing these tunes and uh uh uh you know a very strange thing happened and it led to

the demo ending up on an R desk at A&M Records and a guy picked it up and listened to it and was like wow this sounds like a record we should sign these guys and they did you know and uh and you know we were completely unprepared for the aftermath of that And David and David

A one and done, right? Boomtown. Yeah, yeah. We sort of stuck our toe in the water and said, you know, this is a bit chilly for me. Or maybe it's too hot, I can't tell. Well, which one is it, David? What I find interesting is the producer of this album, also a David.

David. Oh, okay, but we'll spell the same way. It's spelled D-A-V-I-T, D. Okay, you know what? I think I got some bad intel there. I was going to say it was a David's only enterprise. I think that sounds like an elevator pitch, really. Well, how surprised were you when radio started playing, you know,

welcome to the boom town? Extremely. I had absolutely no idea. In fact, I have, I think, the greatest first time you have that thing happen. It was almost comical. It was like out of Miami Vice. There's, so L.A. is divided by this mountain range, the Mulholland Ridge.

And I was driving from the valley side. in my absolute piece of junk of like 1971 Maverick is what it was. And I'm going over the hill. And just as I'm about to crest over the hill and descend into Hollywood, that guitar comes on. And I was just like, holy, nobody told me they were going to play it on the radio. It just happened that I was listening to the radio at the time. What station?

I think it was on K-Rock. Yeah, that'll make sense. And there's like a little sort of reservoir thing with a little pullout, and I just pulled over, and I was just, holy cow, you know. I couldn't call anybody because it was pre-cell phones, you know. Right, right. We're talking like 86, right? Yeah.

Okay, so I'm thinking that's like the opening scene maybe of the biopic, the David and David biopic. Yeah, that would be a fascinating thing. Who's it? Neil Young had this song. I referenced it twice now, a piece of crap. It was a song about his shitty car. I used to drive a few different shit boxes back in the day.

But okay. So Boomtown. But here's my question for you. How, and I don't, I know you won't have an answer to this, but how often does a, an act,

like David and David, have a top 40 hit and then say, let's not do a sophomore album. Let's not have a follow-up. I think it happens a lot. Does it? I don't know. I need to do some work for me.

I bet you that's not common to get a top 40 hit and say, well, were very surprised, you know. Well, you know, we'd had a lot of really strange experiences. You know, I, you know, I, I was not the guy you want fronting a band, really. I, you know, I'm really not that guy. You're not John Bon Jovi. I don't want that kind of, I can't deal with it, you know.

There's this, there's this film clip. Well, okay, so I had this, so we did this bizarre to promo tour of Europe. up with this huge traveling caravan. And, you know, they're like the pretenders and Smokey Robbins. I mean, there was like 30, 40 X, UB 40, the Blow Monkeys. And, you know, these were these traveling package things where you get up and you lip sync two songs. And everybody goes crazy and tries to tear your clothes off.

And, and this goes on night after night after night and you're lip syncing and you feel like a fool. And every night there's this new group of, you know, male models. pretending to be musicians dancing around behind you. And like, what the hell is all this? And by the time we got to southern Italy, I was just claustrophobic and dying, really, of, I was just sick of everybody on this thing.

You know, we would go into this cafe underneath this, you know, the venue or whatever. There was actually this one night. There was like a bar cafe underneath the stage. And I was looking around the room and, you know, all just all these pop stars and me. And we're all just like, we've all got our egos on full display. And I was just like, God, we should all just be shot right now. And we're just despicable.

Like, did you have imposter syndrome? Like a little bit, maybe? You know, maybe that's what it was. Or maybe it's just, you know, there's this fever of ego and greed that surrounds a lot of these things. And, you know, and it. And also just the psychosis. of it. So finally we get to the south of Italy, and by this time I'm just ready to jump out of my skin. And we're right on the Italian Mediterranean, you know, there's all these like sailboats bobbing.

I can see them out of my hotel window, and I'm just like trapped in this place. And, you know, thousands of teenagers would surround the hotel, knowing that all these people are in there, and they're pounding on the walls of this place. And, you know, and the tension inside, it was like, you know, It was just awful. And so I went to the tour manager, and I said, listen, I've just got to get out of here for a while. And he said, oh, no, no, no, no, no good, very dangerous. And I said, literally, seriously, what kind of, you know,

nobody knows who I am. You know, this was our first thing. Oh, no, no, very dangerous. And I said, listen, you know, I'll sign whatever you want me to sign. But I'm getting out of here, and I'm going to go down to that dock side. I'm going to find a rowboat, and I'm going to row around in the little harbor because I'm just dying, you know. And he says, okay, fine.

I signed all this stuff, and he gets me out the trash exit of the hotel. And I'm like a free man, you know, for the first. I feel like, oh, my God, I feel like I've just been let out of Attica, you know. And so I'm like, oh, I'm walking down the thing. I can feel the breeze on my arms, you know. I'm walking towards this dock, you know, and I've learned a phrase, you're the most beautiful woman in the world in Italian. You're the most beautiful woman in the world.

Will you ride with me in a rowboat? So I learned how to say that in Italian. I was planning on finding somebody to say it to. But the streets were empty, and everything was closed up. Like the whole town was just like all these teenagers are coming. We better close up everything. Like the vandals are coming, and the Vikings. And so I'm walking down, and I'm walking down towards this dock.

and, you know, some people spot me, and I'm clearly not an Italian teenager, you know. They don't know who I am, but I'm not one of them, you know. So they start following me, and I start walking a little faster. And, you know, ultimately it ends up in this kind of beetle mania thing, even though they had no idea who I was. I was just, you know, I was running and they were chasing. And the more people, the more I ran, the more people were chasing me, the more people chased them. So it became this, like, terrifying, you know, sprint. down this kind of boardwalk.

This is going in the biopic, by the way. Going down this boardwalk. And all the stores are shut. You know, there were storm doors. You know, they're like, they're shut against like a, like a hurricane. And I'm like, I'm running out of breath, you know, I'm not a, you know, I don't have the wind of these 15-year-olds, you know. And, and, and there's, so I find a phone booth.

And I'm like, okay, I'll get, you know, get in the phone booth. I'll call the thing. I can't figure out how to open the door. So I'm like shaking this, rattling this door, and these kids come at me and they start clawing at me. And one of the kids I had an earring

and he grabbed, and he grabbed it my face and he pulled the earring out, you know, through my earlobe. So blood starts speeing all over the place. Terrible pain suddenly and I didn't, and without even thinking, I just batted him across the face. He went flying and then I became

this enemy, you know, and so now there's like 2,000 Italian teenagers that want to kill me. And so I finally figure out way of getting myself into the phone booth. By this time my shirts ripped to shreds and I'm, you know, my face is all clawed up and

and I'm in this phone booth and they start shaking it and they just push it over. So I'm lying on my back and I'm trying to talk into this phone. and I knew how to say Cantante Americano, American singer. So I dialed zero and I said,

SOS, American Contante American Contante American, SOS, you know, and then the phone goes dead. And I'm just like, oh, fuck, they're getting to kill me. And, and, and so. This is an amazing, can I just step in and say, what an amazing story. So this armored car pulls up.

And, you know, the kids clear out and these Italian soldiers who just kind of grab me out of this thing and we're sitting in the back of this car and I'm just, you know, I've got, I mean, I'm not severely injured. No, but your earlobe was ripped. I'm bleeding, you know,

I've got all kinds of scratches on my face. My shirt is completely torn off. And I'm just sitting there and you know, everybody in Italy has to serve a little time in the military. And so these were basically just kids themselves, you know, and they're just sitting there and finally,

starts laughing. And then the whole armored car starts laughing. And I'm laughing. They just dump me off in front of the hotel. And I go in and all the people who had been saying, oh, you really shouldn't go out there. You know, I go into the thing and I look like I've been dumped out of a truck. And they show you the waiver you signed or whatever.

You cannot sue us, Mr. Bearwell. But everybody was laughing at. The Georgia satellites were laughing at me. It's funny because I don't know if you've ever read your weekend. Wikipedia page. Have you ever popped in or no curiosity? Yeah, sure. Okay, because there's a line on here. It's in your wiki today.

It says, about David and David. The duo split up following the success of that album for unexplained reasons. It just sits there this sentence. And I figured, okay, I got David in the basement. He's going to get comfortable. Explain the damn reasons, okay? We'll get Rosie and Gray T.O. to update Wikipedia. But there must have been a reason why David and David splits up following an album that has a top

40 hit on it. You know, I don't know. I mean, well, you know, I'll tell you the truth. The unexplained reason, really? Dave hated my freaking guts. Okay.

But David, that explains everything. Yeah, he hated my guts. He hated me. See, that's an explain. That explains it, right? I feel like that's everything. You know, a duo, although I know Holland Oats are on the outs right now.

And I know Simon and Garfunkel had issues, but if David hates your fucking guts, you guys got to break up. Pretty much, yeah. I mean, the funny thing is, is that, you know, we get along fine now. It's just, there was just something about him. It was like a red flag to a bull.

I just drove him crazy. You're not his cup of tea. Yeah, you know. I guess I had to live with that. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, you went on to do some amazing things, right? So, again, I do want to get to the novel. So I'll, I promise I'm not going to take it.

take the whole hour. But you go solo basically. It's like so David and David just becomes David barewall and then you put out solo material. Right, which I never really wanted to do, to be honest. So what did you want to do? I wanted to be in a band. I, you know, I really wanted to keep on making records with Ricketts. I, you know, I thought that was a good, well, you know, it was a little bit self-serving on my part because, uh, in, in that duo, you know, David really did all the work. You know, I would just show up and play a blues guitar solo and sing, you know, and he was doing all the drum programming and, like, actually crafting. But I would argue that's a significant contribution.

Yeah, it just doesn't take very long, you know. And so he would work on a track for like four days, and I'd show up and I'd be done in half an hour. And everybody was like, oh, isn't Dave Berwald? You know, isn't he's foot? You know, because I was the singer, you know, people, all we were interested, more interested in the singer for some reason. Always, always. Yeah. So it's like, you know, I mean, you could be Keith Richards and they don't want to talk to you, you know.

Yeah, yeah. This is why Eddie Van Halen named the band after himself. Oh, that's probably a good idea. That's the move. I feel Manfred Mann, too, right? There are bands out there where it's like, I'm not the lead singer, but damn it, it's my band. We're naming it this. Okay.

So I want to let the people just hear a little bit about what does David sound like without David? That sounds confusing. Oh, for God's sick. Are you really going to do this? Jesus. Well, don't storm out. Okay, nobody stormed out yet. You want to look at my baby pictures?

Well, this is not quite that. Just a little bit here. And then we're going to... A few more highlights. Oh, no. How about, like, can you give me 20 seconds? What? You'll let me know if he's going to storm out, okay?

Because I haven't lost one yet. I'm not losing this guy. She'll hit your head if you storm out. Is it painful to hear this? Yeah. Okay, because I don't want to make you feel pain. Well, this particular record has a lot of bad memories of dead. You know what?

I don't want to hurt your... I'll take it down. We don't have to play. That was dance. I don't have to play it. And I won't play any more of your soul is, though. I can't. I just can't. Can you maybe elaborate a little bit about why it's so painful for you to hear songs from your album, Bedtime Stories?

I just don't like it very much. And I had a terrible time making it, and it was a silly thing to do. Because you wanted to be in a band? You're not a solo guy, and here you are. You're like Bruce Springsteen now or whatever. You're, you know? I'm not like Bruce Springsteen. He's,

you know, I'm really not, you know, you know, I, I, you know, I'm,

you know, I'm, no. I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not cut out for that job,

period. So you're a behind the scenes guy. Much preferred that, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I like it because, you know,

all eyes on you, you know, this is the MTV generation and everything. So it's like, you're right. We do focus on the lead singer. We need the front person. And,

uh, that's not you. Yeah, it's exhausted. You know, I mean, the trouble with that line of work is you have to, I think you have to be nuts, you know, I think really you have to be crazy. It's a... Or a narcissist.

Which is the same thing, you know. Yeah. You know, it's just, you know, I, you know, I, you know, that was the joke about David. And David really is that, you know, oh, Bearwald is paranoid and Ricketts is negrophobic. So, you know, yeah, of course they should start a band. Yeah, opposites attract. Okay. So here, so let's just, there are solo material.

We will not play on this show because I don't like to make my guests feel uncomfortable. Well, I just, you know, it's like, I mean, I kind of done all that. I mean, I understand that, and I appreciate you're interested. Well, we've never met. Like, I naturally, I'm curious, especially because now we'll talk about, if you don't mind, I know you probably know this is coming, but could you tell us about your professional relationship with Cheryl Crow? You know, I think she's a fine performer, an entertainer and great humanitarian.

and I think nothing of the world and I hope that she's very happy. Okay, but maybe share a little bit. How about this? How about this? Share a little bit about Tuesday Music Club. Because you're one of the, I guess we're in the early 90s here,

but you're one of the people who sort of co-found Tuesday Music Club. Not sort of, yeah. Bill Betrell and I, well, we'd made this record triage together. And in the course of doing that, we'd assembled this little ensemble. Myself, Brian McLeod, Bill, and Kevin Gilbert,

who was a brilliant multi-instrumentalist. And, you know, over the course of making triage, we just were like, oh, we're having a really good time playing together. We should continue. And Bill had this studio because he was mixing, you know, he was a very top, top level, audio mixer,

and he was mixing like Roger Waters and Badana, I think at the time. Wow. But, you know, a mixed room isn't busy 24 hours a day. And so we were like, well, let's get together one day a week and just have fun, you know, and just play music, you know, and just see what happens. And so we started doing that. And it was really fun.

And everything we did had a kind of, you know, shambolic originality and kind of beauty about it just because it was so, it was like a release from everything else. and Kevin's girlfriend was Cheryl and she'd made sort of a disastrous record with Hugh Pajum for A&M and apparently wasn't satisfactory and so she was planning on dropping her

and Kevin was like can we help her out or maybe I don't know do something and really why not you know and so she came down and you know after a bit of you know searching, we started making that album. And that album is Tuesday

Night Music Club, named after the Tuesday Music Club. That's correct. We added a little night in there. Well, it was a Tuesday Night Music Club, yeah. Okay. So, that's fascinating because that's a monster album. Like, I'm going to play a little, if you don't mind, I feel like... Oh, that's fine, yeah.

I mean, my professional work, I don't mind you playing. It's just these silly records, that, you know, anyway. Yeah, you know, you learned your better to be behind the scenes, the art and let someone else go up front. Let Cheryl go up front and sing the song. Exactly. Okay, so let's play a little.

I have a face made for radio. I think you're a handsome guy. And Harris vibes? You get, yeah, absolutely. I'm talking to Scott over here. Who had a ticket to my Elmo show, but was under the weather. Couldn't make it. It happens. Right, not to bury the lead, but you're a co-writer of this monster jam.

Yes, sir. Amazing. Okay, that's a bigger hit than Welcome to Boomtown. Oh, really? You know what, you're lucky. You're actually, David, you're actually quite lucky because the listenership wanted me to spend 60 minutes asking you about Andrew Cash's Boomtown,

and I'll bet you you don't even know Andrew Cash's Boomtown. No. That's okay. That's a Toronto thing. Okay, so we'll leave that at the hook. Is that a place? Well, it's an album, a popular album from the late 80s, So it's a few years after yours.

It's called Boomtown. And the single and the album is called Boomtown. And Andrew Cash was in a band called La Tronje, with Charlie Angus, who was my guest on last Friday. He was in, yeah, Charlie Angus, Shed out it. Well, he told him to pass the word along to this Cash fellow that I'm coming for him. You know what? Done. He's probably watching the live stream.

So Alan wrote in when you were coming in. I feel like we're not going to play any music from this, okay, David, but I'm going to ask you the question. Susanna Hoffs, this is the question from Alan. Susanna Hoffs said that she and David once sang Love Potion Number 9 with Joni Mitchell. Can he tell us about that? Does this ring a bell? How would you ever forget singing Love Potion Number 9 with Susanna Hoffs and Joni Mitchell? You know, actually, I do remember that.

Yeah, it was also Greg Lease and Jim Keltner, a whole lot of folks. Yeah, we were making it as kind of a record for Sue. It was another kind of experimental band thing. In this case, it was Jim Keltner, myself. I don't remember who was playing bass. But yeah, we just kind of got a group. Oh, David Ketay, we got a group of people together and moved into this house and just kind of started writing songs

Laurel Canyon style, you know, and cutting them on the spot. And, you know, Joni would come by. She came by a bunch of times. Well, you know, you're in Canada, David. Oh, sorry. Joni's our own, right? So I need a little more Joni. Oh, Canada.

A little more maybe on Joni because Alan has like a part B to the question, which is that he says, Joni called him Zealig. Could he explain to Toronto mic listeners why that was? Oh, Zellig. You know, you're right. I know. You're up this Woody Allen movie.

Right. Joni calls me Zellig. Yeah. Well, because we used to go. go adventuring, you know, that was kind of what we did more than working. I had this convertible Mustang and we would just drive around wherever, you know, go to like, I don't know, Mexican transvestite bars and go dancing or, you know, we were just having fun just driving around.

You know, the thing with her was that, you know, really very few people actually understand what writing lyrics is, you know, and so when you find somebody that really does, and you can actually talk about the, you know, the niceties of it, it's really refreshing, you know. and she was you know she she found me refreshing in that she had kind of writer's block and my kind of devil make care attitude seemed to loosen her up a bit so she started writing a record and you know but yeah so everywhere we went you know um some strange person would walk up to me and and uh you know have a strange conversation with me sometimes refer to me by another name and uh

And she was like, wow, that's crazy. And everywhere we go, there's some, you know, some weird guy comes out of nowhere. Some, some woman, you know, you're accosted by a prostitute who knows you too well or something. You know, not that I, you know, she just said somebody I happen to share a half. Well, she was somebody I'd lived with, not, I mean, lived with in a rooming house. You know, there was like 10 people. She had old, we weren't really connected, but, you know. That's called a commune.

It kind of. Well, it was a punk pals. It was a place called Skinhead Manor. It was during the punk rock era. But anyway. So, Joni, it's worth mentioning that I would dare to play this track because you would storm out and then my street would be over. But Liberty Lies is on that bedtime stories.

And she's on that track, Joni Mitchell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, and you were in, I believe you, you know, return the favor. You were on a night ride home. Yeah, we were due wedders together. Yes. That's amazing. Give me a break.

Joni Mitchell, let's get her in the basement. Okay, we're working on Joni coming by here. Okay, so here, one last musical thing, and then we're going to talk about the novel. But I would be remiss if I didn't play a little of this and ask you about it. Don't worry, you don't have to hear your voice. No, this is Adrian Biden, I think.

Oh, no, it's, right. Ewan, McGregor. Ewan McGregor and Nicole Kidman. Yes. We got to let Nicole get in there and then we'll bring it down. This is where we should have brought it you in. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. All right.

Come what made. There's Nicole. I just want to make sure people know it is actually a duet. It's not just Obi-One Canobi over there. Okay. But how did you come to, you know, compose this song for Moulon Rouge? Well, actually, I composed it for Romeo and Juliet. Another Baz Luhrmann movie.

Yes. It was his prior film. film. And what really was kind of funny story. So it was a music supervisor I worked with a lot. What do you mind turning that down a little bit? It named Karen Rackman. And she was like, God, you're such a cynical bastard, you know.

You know, anyway, she kind of finagled this. She was an extremely manipulative person. And she said, you know, I bet you, I bet even if you tried, you couldn't write a timeless love song. And I was like, oh, yeah? Hold my beer. She double dog dared you. She did.

I've written a lot of songs like that, actually. Somebody says, you get right about that. I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, that's funny. By the way, I know I do have,

I know you have, from Freshcraft beer right there for you from Great Lakes Brewery, David. It's a little early for me, but thank you. It's never too early for GLB. So let's, let the listenership know that not only is this song

nominated for a Golden Globe as a, you know, It wins an international film music award, which I'm going to pretend, I know what that is, and that it is extremely prestigious. That's very European, yes. A lot of class attached.

Okay, did you get a trophy or something? Yeah. Okay, where is it right now? Is it on display somewhere? I think it's in storage. You know, that disappoints me. Like, I often, here in Canada, we have these Juno Awards,

and many a Juno Award recipient comes to the basement. And I always ask, where is your Juno right now? I get upset when I find out it's in, like, storage or in a box or something. You're not proud of this international

film award? I mean, sure, I guess. I don't know. That's like being a narcissistic frontman and you are a behind the scenes artist. You know, I, you know, I was just never really cut out for the music business.

I don't, you know, I just, I, okay, that's a good segue because you're now a novelist. That's correct. So would you mind sharing with me this story of like, how do you decide you're going to stop doing this thing you've been very successful at, you know,

composing music for decades? And you're going to write a novel. There's got to be a great story there. Take your time. I could shed out some sponsors if you want. You know, I mean, are you at, do you actually curious for this? Because I could, you know, I, well, basically, you know, I stumbled across the story of a lifetime.

Well, tell me, tell me that story, because I know the story, right? There's a, there's a fire, and I want to hear the story from you because it's amazing. Okay, so, all right. So I, so I lived in a house that was in one of these fire canyons, you know, the, there's these winds fly down from the north desert, bring all kinds of heat and dry, and sooner or later this place was going to burn. we'd already experienced several fires. And so I thought, well, you know, it's probably just to let go with the place.

And in the course of closing it up, I found these boxes in these storage units in our carports. And they were the contents of my grandfather's study when he died. And I learned that he was, I just learned, well, I mean, for one thing, I learned that he was an American spy, among other things. although he was a dual enemy alien in the United States. He was a German with a Japanese passport. And... But how did you learn he might be a spy with your grandfather?

Because he was... Well, because he was a dual enemy alien who made his way from Japan to the U.S., not long before Pearl Harbor, and immediately began teaching at the American Spy School. Wow. Well, there's some clues. Yeah.

And plus he knew all the advanced details of the firebombing of Tokyo two years before they happened. Yeah, two years. Next you're going to tell me, you found a T-shirt he wore that said, I'm a spy. I did not find that. No, I found a spy camera, though, that kind of said that I'm a spy and also a really deadly little dagger. So, yeah. Okay, so you discover these things you didn't know about your grandfather. And this inspires you that you now can envision this, you know, fictional universe.

about a man like your grandfather? No, I became fascinated by the truth underlying the whole thing, and I was determined to find out what in the heck happened. And so I started digging, and I followed his life. And where he went, I researched. And, you know, the resulting book, you know, it really, you know, the fact that he just led such an extraordinary life made it kind of a lot easier.

How many years did it take you to write this novel? Eight. Okay, so how do you finance your lifestyle for eight years you're writing The Fire Agent? I sold my music catalog. They're right there. That's a nugget right there. So you sold the rights to the music you own to get a chunk of money that you could live off of while you write the fire agent. That is correct.

I think that's a unique story that you would, you know, I hope you got some left over, but that's like, I hope you got big bucks for it. I hope there's money left over, but this is how much you believed in this story, that you would say, okay, I'm going to cash out now because it's going to take me several years of you just writing. Like, that's betting on yourself.

Well, you know, at least I know the horse. That's true. That's true. Okay. So I'm curious, what took so long. I guess I'm curious. What took so long? Well, yeah, because this is your job was to write this novel. Is it just the intense amount of research into learning everything you could? You mentioned the truth? Yeah, yeah, the research took a lot of time, you know, and, you know, and also it wasn't the most efficient method that I wrote the book because, you know, I didn't, you know, know, I was investigating as I wrote, you know, and writing as I investigated.

So I was discovering stuff all the time, you know, all through the writing of the book. I was continually stumbling across new information. So, yeah. And a theme in this book is the rise of fascism, easy for me to say. And you're writing about in Germany and in Japan. But I think at the timing is quite amazing that there may or may not be a rise of fascism. in this world in 2026. Well, yes, that did provide a bit of compulsive energy.

Because, yeah, you know, this is something, you know, I've been writing about my anxieties about this kind of event for, you know, 30 plus years probably. And here it was happening. And people didn't really seem to notice. And sometimes, you know, if you look at your own culture through the lens of another, it's easier to see yourself,

without getting defensive, you know. What is it you hope? It's going to be available very, very soon. Next week? Yeah, next week. I'm checking out, Scott there. He was too sick to see my alma combo debut, but I'm going to need a doctor's note from you,

is what I'm telling you. He's giving me a thumbs up. I'll need a doctor's note. Okay. But the fire agent, and what do you hope people learn from this novel, your debut novel? You know, well, first I hope to have a good time reading it.

but you know the things that they take away you know somebody that reads the book will find out stuff about the world that I guarantee you they don't know and you know I I I left the book strewn with real names so that people can you know when they stumble across something I say that can't possibly be true they can look it up and find out yes in fact it is so you know but but really you know I I always would like people to come away with this book with an understanding, which is kind of what I came away with from the book, which is the understanding of the power of just being kind in the midst of the most horrific events, you can imagine, as I don't know if you've read any of the book,

but there are quite a few horrific events described. But to me, what I hope people take away from the book is a renewed faith in the power of kindness and the courage and determination to fight for kindness. So there are these great quotes from people, one of whom, the son of a guy,

so this is going to tie it in for the Toronto audience, but this quote, I'll read it quickly. A novel of inspiring humanity and heartbreaking failability, the fire agent is a scorching secret history of the 20th century that shines a spotlight on the echoes still reverberating to this day. That's Graham Yost, whose father Elwee Yost, companion of mine on TV Ontario, and there's a GTA connection.

That's a Kinnock right there, Graham Yost. Oh, yeah, he's definitely a Kinnock. Crazy community. Yeah. What are your thoughts on Canada, us crazy Canucks? I love Canada. I don't think you're crazy in the slightest. Okay, that's the ski team.

So I have more questions for you, but I'm going to spend a moment. to tell you that I'm not just giving you, David, fresh craft beer for your visit. Okay, so I'll do this very quickly because we don't have all the time in the world. And, you know, I'm going to go back and play all those solo jams you sang. So that'll be the... Cool, then.

But I want to tell everybody, Toronto Maple Leafs baseball happens at Christy Pitts, and it's free, no ticket required. What a great caliber of baseball. Grab a beer, grab a hot dog, and check it out. I have the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball for you and for Scott here. copy each. Very interesting. And also I have in my freezer upstairs.

I don't know if you can take it. I don't know if you even have a freezer wherever you're staying, but I do have a frozen lasagna from Palma pasta, delicious, authentic Italian food. I hope it doesn't remind you of being trapped in a phone booth. That's a pretty specific feeling being trapped in a phone booth. I hope this lasagna doesn't bring it all back because it's pretty authentic. And last but not least, I say last but not least,

but it's actually penultimate here, but I do have a measuring tape for you, David, for Ridley funeral home. Well, thank you very much. You know, this actually relates directly to something I was talking about because this is very much like a Mona Lisa. Yeah.

Okay. You want me, should I mic you up and you can explain that reference? No, he says no, because he was too sick for my event, but he's here for David. That's what matters, right? Okay. Last but not least, this is the last but not least. If you have old electronics, old devices, old cables, don't throw them in the garbage.

Those chemicals end up at our landfill. Go to recycle myelectronics.ca, put in your postal code. This won't work for you. You're living in California still. I'm in the Hudson Valley, New York. New York, okay, it won't work for you in New York. It's a Canada-only thing. But go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca.

Put in your postal code and find out where you can drop all of that off to be properly recycled. So you switch coasts. How long were you in California? Oh, my God. Well, since my, well, it's all through my early teens to, you know, I went to college for a couple years. But, yeah, no, I was based in L.A. for, there was no way to live anywhere else but L.A. and do what I did. You know. You got to be near David Foster.

Yeah, kind of. Yeah. I'm just shedding at all the Canadians. Okay. But you're now living in New York. So how is that an adjustment been? Weather's a little different. Yeah, I needed to be in New York.

New York because I needed access to these specialty libraries that are all there. And except for the ones that are in D.C., and it just wasn't a much easier way to research. But do you miss the West Coast? Like, is this a temporary thing, or are you going to stick around? I don't know. You know, I always was a pretty serious California boy, but I don't know. I really don't. I won't hold you to it.

Like, it won't be a binding. I won't be, hey, David, you promise me you would stick it out in New York. I heard you're back in L.A. I really haven't any plans. No plans, no plans here. Okay, Alan has another question for you. David told me, and I'm not going to tell you who Alan is, because he doesn't want me to use his last name,

but Alan writes, David told me he far prefers his new life as a man of letters to his old one as simply a singer-songwriter par excellence. Is that supposed to be French? I was just in Montreal. I should know this. Okay. What's, I hate asking this question, but he wants to know.

what's your next book going to be about? You just spent seven years or so to write this novel, which comes out next week, and Alan wants to know about the next one. Well, Alan, you're going to have to plunk down some dough. The fire. Yeah, but listen, Alan, whoever you are, I know who you are.

I might even tell David in private afterwards. Hold on, no, I wouldn't do that. It would go. And then he wants you to ask, did you have an encounter with Michael Cohen? Yeah, as a matter of fact. Can you share that story? Surreal.

Yeah, it was. July 4th, 2018. I remember the exact date. A friend of mine was visiting from L.A. and she was staying at a hotel on Park Avenue. And we were going to go have dinner. And so I went and picked her up. And we were kind of wandering around the neighborhood,

waiting for our dinner reservation. And everywhere we went, she was like, oh, hey, there's Michael Cohen. You know, like we're in the stationary store. It's like, oh, there's Michael Cohen. You know, we go to the bar. Oh, there's Michael Cohen. And we finally saw him the third time.

And she said, there's Michael Cohen again. That means we should go talk to him. And so, you know, this was right before he decided whether he was going to flip on Trump. And my mother's a clinical psychologist, and she deals a lot with trauma patients. And so she was a clinical hypnotist, among other things. And so I'd learned some things about hypnosis. And I thought, well, I'm going to try to hypnotize this, son of a bitch. and so I approached him very gently

and I said, you know, and it was me and I was in a nice suit, you know, and Hillary's a very beautiful woman and, you know, we didn't look very threatening and I said, you know, I don't want to disturb you, but I imagine you must feel as though you were in a giant washing machine you're being spun around

and you don't know which direction you're going and he said, that's exactly right. And I said, and I just kind of started saying, well, and you know, I can't remember exactly what I said, but it was very, you know, this is really a good time for you to come to grips with the truth in your life. And he goes, there's three things in the world that you can't hide, the sun, the moon, and the truth. And I said, that's right. You can't hide it. And he said, the truth will set me free. And I said, yes, after a time.

I'm Honestly We stood there for like five minutes talking like this And we went and wrote it all down You know, we were like, I can't believe that just happened And so we went This thing, wrote it all the thing down So I put it out on my Facebook

And she did too And it was just like only in New York, you know Only in New York, that's a great story By the way, while you were telling it, I felt like I was being hypnotized like he was working on me. Oh, well, you know. So that whole, you know, your mom being like a psychologist, your dad being a political scientist,

that's sort of the perfect storm to create a novelist who would write something like the fire agent. And I hope it's hugely successful. Well, I do too. And thank you very much. Thank you for having me. And thanks for not storming out of here when I played those solo songs.

Storming out is the least of your worries. Okay. Okay. You know what? I'm just kidding. I know. You're going to have to, and, you know, your henchman here is going to make sure you take the photo with me by Toronto Trees. So you can't escape until we do that.

But I loved it, you know. David and David reunion imminent, right? Oh, yeah, I need to be there. He hates your fucking guts. Well, I think he's gotten over that, but, you know, what are we going to do? What are you going to do? But, you know, the nostalgia tours, you could probably do pretty well, David and David. Yeah.

Styleize it right. Okay. That sounds very enticing. And that! Scott, I got T-shirts made that said, and that. This is a thing. I'm going to at the next TMLX vent. Oh, quickly, I need to shout that out, actually.

So TMLX-22, which is a free event, unlike my Elmo gig. But you bought the ticket, right? Oh, so, okay. That's okay, you weren't there. We got the money. Okay. But the TMLX-22 is a free event on June. June 25.

That's a Thursday. It'll be a Thursday from 6 to 9 p.m. at Great Lakes Brewery at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard down the street from the Costco and South Atobico. Everybody's invited. Even you. Even you. I can't wait.

And that. I believe him. He's going to stick around for that. That was pretty convincing, eh? You should have been an actor, novelist, singer-songwriter, actor. Yeah. It's not too late. Okay, I'll look into that.

And that brings us to the end of our 1,9007 show. Go to TorontoMike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. And much love to all who made this possible. Again, that is Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Nick Ieinis, his podcasts are called Building Toronto Skyline, and Mike and Nick. We get a new recording next Friday.

Recycle My Electronics.C.A will not work in New York, but it'll work in Canada. And Ridley Funeral Home, Heather Rankin is his guest coming up on Life's Undertaking. See you all next week. Oh, Monday, Kevin Newman. Newsman, Kevin Newman comes in to tell all. Don't you dare miss it.