Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Dean McTaggart from The Arrows: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1836

Episode Date: January 21, 2026

In this 1836th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Dean McTaggart about his work with The Arrows, not singing on Tears Are Not Enough, and writing hits for Amanda Marshall and Wynonna Judd. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

Welcome to episode 1,836 of Toronto Mikeed. An award-winning podcast proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at great lakesbeer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Visit palma pasta.com for more. Fusion Corpse own Nick Aienies. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline and Building Success,

two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recyclemyelectronics.c.a.comitting to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Redley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. joining me today, making his Toronto mic debut, it's Dean McTaggart. Dean, how you doing, buddy?

My fire alarm has been going off since last night, off and on. I had to put the culprit in the garage, so hopefully we can get through this without it going off again. I don't know if you've ever been woken up in the middle of the night by a fire. But it's not fun. It's scary, right? But at least... And this has been going on like every other month for a while.

Wow. And it just went off again like 15 minutes ago. And I had to put it in the garage. And it's hooked up to the box, right? I mean, it's hardwired in. And I've shut it off, but the thing is still going. And it's going in the garage as we speak. Well, Dean, this is the life of a Canadian rock star.

That's right. That's right. That's right. Hey, whereabouts in the world do we find you today? I am in Mount Forest. Do you know where that is? Well, help me a bit. It's on Highway 6 above Fergus, which is above Guelph. Okay. So is it snowing like crazy right now where you are? It starts snowing like crazy right now, but it's coming again. Yeah.

We thought last winter was bad. I mean, it's been insane. Well, you know, I'm in South of Tobaco, and we get, I'll be honest, we get pretty mild winters. Like, I talk to folks living where you are. By the way, I've got to say, happy birthday to Ian's service. He lives in Guelph. He helps me with, he's like the CTO, the chief technology officer of this place. He helps me host these shows.

So happy birthday to Ian. But I shouldn't complain. Like, it's pretty mild, but yesterday. So we're talking on January 20. But yesterday was like a very rare day where I was on a bike ride, okay? So you're like, what are you doing? But I'm on a bike ride. Oh, you're still riding your bike?

Yeah. Well, I wrote it today. But today felt like a balmy summer day compared to yesterday. Like yesterday was a day I was out there. I was like, oh, it's too cold for me to be out here. Like my face started to go numb. Yeah. Yes.

I put my bike away in November. So good on you. Well, maybe you're a sensible person and I'm a little. I understand that sometimes you just got to do what you've got to do. Well, yeah, and it's normally fun. It was not fun yesterday. I wrapped it up at four kilometers and I said that's it.

This winter has not been fun at all. Not fun, but I'm hoping we can have a fun chat, Dean. I want to maybe. But if the smoke alarm does go off, you'll know that you know, it's not because what we're doing is going bad. It's just because that's, Oh, yeah, no. You've given me a good heads up, and I won't hold it against you.

Thanks for that. Thanks for that. Nice to meet you, by the. Yeah, nice to meet you. So I do this quarterly special episode of Toronto Mike, we call FOTM cast, which is really meta. It's for the real heads. It's not for the Dean McTaggards. It's for, like, diehard listeners.

But we do this, like, CanCon Jam of the day. And we just did it, and we played Heart of the City. Oh, cool. So it's like, I'm like, oh, what's Dean up to? That's when I reached out to you. I'm like, oh, would Dean talk to me? And maybe we can get like some of the Aero stories. I got some other questions for you.

Like, you're going to kind of go in the time machine with me here. That's, I'm willing. Okay, good. You know what? That's everything, you know? Yeah. And because you're... But having said that, you know, a lot of that stuff was a little while ago.

So we'll see. Well, hey, if you can remember it, you weren't there. Yeah. Some like that. Okay. So one thing, I want to shout out Basement Dweller, who wrote in and just said, The Arrows were a great band back in the day, especially on their fierce tracks.

Meet Me in the Middle and Heart of the City. So we'll get to that. But I'm wondering, like, Dean, who were you when the arrows were formed? And can I get like some Aeros origin? like superhero origin story here? Well, I grew up in Brampton and, you know, on the edge of Toronto. So we grew up with, you know, my heroes were the Mandela.

I don't know if this may be way before your time, but Dominic Triano and guys like that. Donny was my hero, guys like that. We started out as R&B band. My friend Mike Sloski and I started the arrows It was probably in 81 or so. And, you know, did the cross Canada in a van a number of times. And then started writing original material and signed to A&M records.

That's sort of how everything started. Okay, but that's so that's 1981. But like so like when do you realize, hey, I want to be in rock and roll. I want to be a musician. Oh, God, I was, you know, I was singing in Peel music festivals when I was nine years old, you know. So I knew that, you know, that's what I wanted to do from a very early age. And I started writing songs probably when I was 13. Wow.

I mean, they weren't very good, but that's when I started, you know, in Brampton. So you- And had bands probably from 14 on, you know. high school. It was your calling. I guess so, yeah. Well, it worked out. There's not much else I'm good at.

So wait, so we have you in Brampton in the late 70s. So I naturally, because a lot of noise has been made recently about a CFNY, the spirit of radio documentary that was airing. It's still available, I think, on the TVO docs YouTube channel. Like, would you tune in to CFNY back in the day? No. I was listening to Chum FM for the most part. A lot of the punk stuff was a little bit after us, right?

I look back at it now and think, you know, I probably should have been more involved in it, but I wasn't in the punk thing. I mean, we were a little bit more R&B, rhythm and blues. Okay. You know, we grew up on Sam and Dave and James Brown. I just had over here, just did an episode. Rob Bowman is the gentleman's name.

And he wrote the most amazing book about Stacks Records. Like I'm just throwing this into the abyss. And he's a part, there's an HBO doc about Stacks. And man, this stack story. I've seen it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Like I said, that's the stuff we grew up on. I mean, I've been to Memphis and I've been, you know, we've been to muscle shows, all those places where all that stuff started. It's pretty amazing. Well, that's Rob Bowman's other book. This is the Rob Bowman episode because Muscle Shoals is his other sweet spot. Yeah. Yeah, muster shold is, my wife and I did a trip to New Orleans and on the way there stopped at Musher Sholes.

And it's like, it's like in a strip mall, right? Where Aretha was, where Wilson Pickett was. And we were lucky enough the day that we were there, that there was one of the owners that was there and told us everything about every piece of gear. And it was just, I mean, for someone like me, it was just amazing, amazing. Okay, so now we'll get you back to 1981. Actually, if you don't mind, I've got a few songs here. I might play a little song just to get into it with you, okay? So hopefully you can hear this.

But let's kick this one out. We're going back, Dean. Yes, you are. Yeah. So, Dean, I'm loving this, you're telling her that you love her. You should.

Because if you don't treat her rain, love you tonight. So, Dean, I'm loving this, man. Like, what are we listening to here? That's Treater Right. That's an old Roy Head song. That was one of the first things we ever recorded. And I think we recorded at a Kensington sound maybe,

either or Grand Avenue in Hamilton. But I think it was Kensington Sound. That was like one of the original members of, and I'm trying to think, I know Dennis Kelty was in that band, and Mike Slosky, the original song. Man, that's going back there. That's the first single.

That's on Al Maca Cabo Records, right? Yeah, I think you're right. And so, okay, so this is where it all begins for the arrows because Pretty much. Yeah. This leads to you got a, I don't know, we call it a mini album. I don't know what you want to call misunderstood. Back then we called it an EP.

Yeah, then we did a Grand Avenue with Daniel Lamwa actually engineered for us, so that was a big deal for us. Well, can you give me some more detail like before we move on? We did three original tunes and we did a cover of Don't Let Me Misunderstood the

old animals thing. And I did listen to them about six months ago and I sounded very young. But yeah, so that tweet to write, then the EP, and then we were writing, and I got hooked up with David Tyson, who, you know, did a lot of producing, and we wrote a lot of songs together and wrote a lot of songs on both Arrow's records.

So that happened. after the EP. So we'll get back to David Tyson because you also wrote some big jams for other artists. Which we'll get to. We'll get to that, of course. But here we are on the,

the arrows segment of the conversation. What was it like working with Daniel Landau? And give me a sense of who was Daniel Landau at this time. We know who he is today. He wasn't, we called him Danny, you know? So I don't think he likes to be called that anymore. I'm not sure. But he was just getting going.

You know, Brian Eno, I think, had been in Hamilton with him for a little bit. But it was way before you two, way before Peter Gabriel. I mean, we knew how good he was and how fortunate we were to be working with him. But nobody could have guessed, you know, what was in store for Daniel. I was like, holy smokes. Well, that whole family is so talented. Absolutely, yeah.

I don't know his brother nearly as well as I knew Danny back then. But, man, he was brilliant back then. You know, that's 1981, I'm assuming. Yeah, 1981. I believe his sister is one of the founding members of the band Crash Vegas. That is true. I think she plays bass. Yeah, and worth shouting out the fact that next week, Michelle McAdory is going to visit,

and she, of course, was the singer for Crash Vegas. Is that right? Yeah. Man, there's the name I haven't heard since back then, probably. It's funny, because Crash Vegas is a great band. I've had Colin Crips on, and I'm looking at it. Yeah. You know, what a great band.

And they had to kick Greg Keeler out of that band, you know, because he had some other side project. I never heard of them again. You know, now that you mentioned, I did not remember that Greg was in that band until you mentioned. Yeah. But they were hot back then. That's for sure.

Great band. But I almost wonder if the legacy of Michelle Magidore, still very talented, she'll be in here again talking about new music. But the legacy might be, oh, she's the gal and the, the Blue Rodeo try video. You know what I mean?

Like, oh yeah, sure, Crash Vegas has some, inside out was a big Canadian hit. Like, you got a lot of big jams. But like, at the end of the day, when all is done, you'll be like, oh, that's the pretty girl from the TriVivis. That's right. That's right. Well, maybe that's unfortunate. I don't know.

Well, I don't know. It is what it is. I'll ask her about it, but she's a sweetheart and I can't wait to. And what label was that band on? I'd have to, like, Google it. I don't know off the top of my head, but I do know Colin Crips and Michelle McIntyre were like, but I do know there were Daniel Landlaw's sister. Colin went on to Junkhouse, sorry.

He went on to Junk House. I'm actually staring at a Junk House album right now. He went on to Junk House. He did have a cup of coffee, maybe before this. Yeah, before this. He had a, I think Junk House was before Crash. Is it after? Maybe it was after.

Oh, no. I think it's after that. It's after. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I can remember them being in Sony when I was working on a man. of stuff. They were in the studio at Sony back then. So that would have been, you know,

mid-90s? Early 90s? Well, we'll get back to Amanda. Don't worry. But do you have a relationship with the mayor of Hamilton, Tom Wilson? Tom and I know each other, and we've done gigs together, and we've laughed a lot. He's a great guy. And very talented, dude, obviously. I mean, I had no idea he was such an artist i mean that's come to light to for me anyway in the last couple of years you know i i i follow him on on on social media and uh some of the stuff he's doing it's just it's gorgeous well it's like therapy he's working through some stuff as he discovers he's a mohawk man yeah i get that i get that and uh i had no idea i mean we've we've hung out and

we've done songwriting things together. I haven't seen him for a while, though. It's been a number of years since I've seen. He's got a great voice. I wish I could mimic it, but I can't, so I won't even try. He does have a wonderful low voice, yes. Hey, can I, you know, sorry to interrupt you there, but I'm itching to play another ARO song that'll kind of, you know, because you mentioned A&M, so we got some questions,

and I want to talk about stand back. But here's another one for us all. Dean, I hear a hit. That's a pretty good Bob song. Yeah. I can't help it sing along. Yeah, it was a big turntable hit, you know, back then. I mean, we never did a video for that thing, which I thought was a mistake.

Because videos were just starting to really, you know, be important. And for whatever reason, A&M didn't think it was a big enough song to do that for it. Jeez. But, yeah, David and I wrote that. And I got to be honest with it, it's not my favorite song on the record, but I get it. It's a cool pop tune, you know. There's other ones I like better on the record. What's your favorite song on Stand Back?

I like Easy Street as a cool song. Generally, it's what I went through to write them, too, you know. that dictates how I feel about them a lot. If it was an easy write or, you know, it was magical. And I mean, I feel different about it. Easy Street is probably, the wild one is another song I really like on that record. That was written about a friend of mine who passed away.

Yeah. So this song is just, hey, let's try to. to write a poppy radio-friendly single? We weren't trying to, it just kind of happened, you know. It was one of the first things that David and I did together and then took it to the band, you know, and the band kicked a hell on it. So, I mean, Diero's, I was really fortunate to have that caliber of players, you know. Those guys, fabulous players, every one of them.

We had guys from blood sweat and tears. I mean, it was just a great, great band. And to get to do that with those guys, to play live with those guys, I mean, I look back now, I don't think I knew that then, how fortunate I was to get to play with those guys. Well, if I knew now what I knew then. or something like that. I've got to finish that one.

But it does seem like the group, the membership of the band, the Aeros, changes quite a bit through the years with one constant in that man's name is Dean McTanger. Well, yeah, Rob Guseves was there for most of the time.

But, yeah, we switched, and Earl was there for both records. I mean, we get, you know, I get calls every once in a while to, oh,

the Aeros need to reform and go out and play some gigs. And it just wouldn't be the same. It wouldn't be the same without Earl. You know, Earl passed away in 1999. Yeah, I'm sorry. And it just, it would not be the same without him. He was a saxophone player.

And he was just the heart of the band for me, you know. No, I can totally appreciate that. But I bet you have had to. We went through drummers and we went through bass players. Bob Economo was the last drummer. I think we probably had three or four drummers over the course of those two or three records counted in the EP. Have you received an email or a call from Ed Sousa saying,

hey, I have a bowling alley in Mississauga that needs the arrows to play it? No. No, who's there? Fill me in. So he's a chap. He's been bringing like 80s bands back to this bowl. It's literally a bowling alley in Mississauga, and they've kind of configured it. So you get like Strange Advance, for example, or... I saw Strange Advance where I'll play again. Yeah, that's where they'll play, or, you know, Honeymoon Suite will play. Yeah.

Or Spoons. You know, I... Spoons, right? Well, spoons are, you know, they're always playing somewhere. Yeah, as were Honeymoon Sweet, but Strange Advance was one I hadn't seen for a long time. Yeah. Well, they're... So you're now an FOTM, Dean, which means friend of Toronto.

Mike in strange advance. The main guy from that band has been over, and we've had a good chat about that. So I do have a question about the name the Aeros before I forget, which is where did the name come from? And then I'll have a follow-up after I get that story. Okay. You know, one of the most difficult things

when you're starting a band is to find a name. And that was, I think it might have come from one of the original guitar players, Rusty McCarthy, who ended up playing with Mary Margaret O'Hara in a bunch of other people. Rusty was the original guitar. I think the Arrows was, might have been his name idea. Quite honestly, I don't remember.

We went through a number of names, and it got to the point where we just said, okay, that's it. That's it. Like I said, it's probably way too much trouble picking it. But has anybody come up to you over the years, or maybe the question should be, how many people have come up to you over the years and said, oh, I love that song you wrote. I love rock and roll. I used to get that more than I do now. Yeah. That was the other arrows, right?

Yeah, that was the British arrows, which predate you. So did you ever get like a, I don't know, a cease and desist letter? No, no, no, surprisingly enough. because I did think that that was, you know, after I realized, after we've been together for like five years, right, there was another, but obviously they didn't, they didn't care about it much.

And I mean, in North America, we didn't hear any arrows. We heard Joan Jett's version of I love rock and roll. So nobody was smart enough. We didn't have, you know, Wikipedia or whatever.

People, only the true savvy musicologists among us would say, that's an arrow song. That's, that's right. That's right. Man, that was a while ago too, right? The Irish arrows, the British arrows, when was that band around?

The 70s? Yeah, 70s, right. Yeah, that's a 70s band. But they, the best known for writing, I guess they recorded the original version. They wrote of I Love Rock and Roll, which became a monster hit over here when Joan Jett covered it. Right, right. But I just wondered, I can see people saying, Dean, you wrote that I Love Rock and Roll? Man, that must be buying you a cottage in Muscoca.

We got that much. Okay. Okay, so recap here, just because I'm curious how the sausage gets made here. Okay, so you make that EP with Daniel Lanois, misunderstood, it's called. Right. And that A&M, is it A&M, hears that and says, yeah, we like the cut of your jib? We're going to sign you? Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah, Michael Godin was the A&R guy. And Brian Adams was their big artist then, right? So, yeah, we did the first record. We recorded some of it in Toronto. I think we mixed it in New York, the first record. Stand back? Stand back, yeah. And then we went out and played a lot.

We did a cross-Canada tour with Christoburg, and then we went through Europe with Christoburg, Germany for the most part, France, Holland. And that was fabulous. All those guys in that band are still friends to this day. and then we did the came home and did the the second record or the second full record for A&S. The lines are open. Oh no, I'm just telling the listenership they can call now if they have a question for Dean.

The lines are open. No, just kidding. That's the name of the album. Well, I have to get in all my jokes before the fire alarm goes off. I'm not sure. I'm not happy so far. Yeah, so far so good. Okay.

And now that you said that, it's going to go off in five or four. Okay. So I do want to ask about Meet Me in the Middle real quick. So, A, I'm curious, what stations are playing Meet Me in the Middle? Because we're going back to a different, where are we? We're in 1984. Okay. Yeah.

So what stations in the GTA, in Toronto, I guess, would play Meet Meach in the middle. Chum. Chum. But when Q107 touched that or was it too new wavy? I think it was too pop for them. Yeah. They don't like when synthesizers show up unless it's chumped by the end. They had a hard time dealing with that.

I think they played the second record a little bit more. But for the most part, it was Chum and Chum FM. Yeah. Okay, cool. Just to remind the young people, to remind the young people, at this time, Chum is still top 40. I'm talking about 1050 because it does go to like golden oldies or whatever classic. Golden oldies, I guess you call it.

It flips to that in like 86 or something like that. Oh, is that right? Yeah. So it ends its top 40 run. I think 1986 and then it becomes like, yeah, like, what's that called that format? Whatever, I call it golden oldies, but you can call it moldy oldies if you want. Yeah, you can call it either one of those things I believe. So, meet me in the middle, though.

Firstly, 1984, as listeners of this program know, that was the year that much music launches. Not that many of us got it in 1984, but it was available. I'm looking at a, David Kines sent me a poster. I'm looking at it right now, the nation's music station. It is short-sighted of A&M because MTV, been going since 81. Where's the video? I think that's a mistake.

I don't know. And that was the question we asked. And to their credit, you know, for the next record, we made three right off the bat, you know, for heart of the city chains and... Talk, talk.

Talk, yeah. So, to the credit, we did that. But, yeah, we all thought that that was a mistake, but, you know, what are you going to do? Yeah, and also, like, what would, you know, video hits with Samantha Taylor

and Toronto Rocks with John Major. They need some Canadian content. Let's get some meeting in the middle. Well, man, there's a couple of shows I haven't heard of us for a while. I know that Earl and I did the John Major one. Yeah, Toronto Rocks.

John Major, sadly, no longer with us. Oh, is that right? Yeah, quite some time ago he passed away. He was, I believe he was, he's definitely American, but I believe he was from Cleveland, but I got to confirm if he's from, Cleveland. But regardless, I just thought of Michael Williams saying no Cleveland, no Bowie, but that's a whole different episode of Toronto, Mike. So what would this Christaburg,

you know, being the opening act for Christaburg, going concerned in 84, had the big hit, of course, the monster hit. But like, what's that like? It was fabulous. In Germany, in particular, but a lot of Europe, he was, you know, godlike. I mean, he was Springsteen like. I mean, we were playing. to eight, nine thousand cedars in some cases. Some of the other bread and butter things during the week were, you know, would be three or four thousand people. But, you know, Berlin, you know, the big cities, it was huge.

He was huge. And, you know, you don't realize that. Sitting in Canada, just how big he was over there. But, and he, it was fabulous for us because most of the guys in the band were Canadians. and we knew them, you know, they were friends of ours. So we were on the road with them and we stayed in the same hotels. It was just a fabulous experience.

Just couldn't have been better. And Chris couldn't have been more of a gentleman that he was. I mean, we did a lot of opening stuff, and you can get treated like crap, you know. Chris was not like that. He was a class act and it still is, you know. Well, that's because he's, I believe he's Irish, right? He's Irish, yeah, yeah. Okay, because, you know, he's born in Argentina, but he's Irish guy.

Okay, one thing, one interesting note, though, is that you're on tour with him, and he's a big deal in Europe, but you're on tour with him before he releases, by far his biggest North American hit, The Lady in Red. Yeah, but he was playing that then. Okay, so maybe, maybe it comes out in 86, but, okay, so that, you're hearing it on. Yeah, we were hearing it then, I'm pretty sure. I'm trying to think Is a man on the line Is the record that he was doing then?

Is that, what record was Lady in Red on? Well, I can tell you, it's on Into the Light. Okay. Which comes out in... Which is after man on the line? Yeah, which is, exactly, which is 1986.

And that was... Here, I got to kind of... I know he was playing that song there. So obviously they hadn't recorded it. And how's the... So how is the... Yeah, man on the line is 84. And it's got a single called High on Emotion, which was kind of a big deal.

And then the next to follow up is when Lady and Red is like the first single that comes out on the album, Into the Light, which is 1986. I'm positive if he was playing that song. Amazing. Okay. Of course, I could be wrong. You know what? This is the West. So when legend becomes fact, we print the legend.

There you go. Just kidding. Just kidding. Okay. So now, this is pretty cool, because I have one more jam. I got to play for you here.

I could play, you know, you have a few singles coming off the lines are open. But let me just, I got to do this because this is what inspired your visit here today.

I was listening to this song and I'm like, would Dean talk to me? And you never know, right? Like I've reached out, you know, Zappacosta was like excited to talk to me from Edmonton

and there's some chaps. I love Alfie. I've known Alfie for years. We wrote songs together about Alfie and I, you know, when I lived in Branton, years before we moved out of town in 2000, so it's way before then. But Alfie and I have had some crazy nights together.

So because I mentioned Alfie Zappa Costa, I'm calling an audible on the line of scrimmage, okay? So I was going to dive into the lines are open. But since I'm in like 1985, what can you tell me about recording tears are not? enough. I wasn't there. So tell me that story then because why do I think you were there? I have no idea. So I felt disappointed that I was left out. I can remember that. But I wasn't asked. So this is interesting to me because I believe that there's obviously erroneous documentation out there that say you're in the chorus. But you would know. I remember it's bad, but it's not

That's bad. I think I would have known. Okay, so you did not. And again, I'm just, you know, I'm like a Lauren Honickman here. I got to get the definitive answer here. I talked to me yesterday. So I wrote, so really quickly for the listenership might find this. There's a city councilor here named Brad Bradford who's running for mayor of Toronto this year.

And he's been on a few times. And he wrote this Instagram post about how after our big snowstorm on, I think it was Thursday, we had a big snowstorm here. And he posted. that this city was clearing the bike lanes before it cleared the roads. Okay? Now, when I read this, it was right after I did a 30k ride on the Friday. So the Thursday

the snow falls, we got like 25 centimeters or something, which is a lot for Toronto. I know you guys laugh at that, but okay. So on front, we have to bring in the army, right? But on Friday, I go for a 30K ride to the junction and I do this route and it's all bike paths. And along the way, I'm seen basically I have to risk my life several times because the bike lanes are completely

unrideable because they're used almost as spots to dump snow and there are parts where it's just simply and and I had a bike with like snow tires on it forget about it so I'm I have to go on two big streets I had to go on lake shore and I had to go on bluer street and hope that these cars didn't run me over because they're like who the hell are you to be biking on a day after a snowstorm but so I had this experience on Toronto bike path and then I read this note that FOTM, Brad Bradford says that they're, and all the streets were clear on my ride, and a lot of the bike lanes were just unrideable. And I was kind of like, so I wrote a piece where I didn't call him a liar, but I said he was

lying to us. And then I just shared my experience and I said I was disappointed in him. And then Lauren Honnickman, who is my lawyer, was very concerned. He said that I'm not, I can't just say he's lying. I have to say, I have to ask an open question of like, what's he talking about? So I got a whole, like, so yesterday Lauren calls me

and gives me a very, this is kind of boy, I know this is a boring story, but he basically gives me all this legal advice that I can't write what I wrote about Brad Bradford. And then basically at the end of this all,

I refuse to edit it. Brad Brad Bradford is invited into the studio to talk about it, but I wrote what I wrote and I stand by it, but I love Lauren that he cares about me not getting my ass sued. And he's giving me

loving advice because he's a lawyer. He thinks, like that. But Lauren wants me to ask you definitively right now, Dean, were you at Manta Sound studios in Toronto on February 10th, 1985? I was not.

Mind blow. That's a mind blow. We have to make an edit to the Tears Are Not Enough Wikipedia page. Oh. I was not aware that it actually stated that I was there. It's got you listed as a member of the chorus. It is news to me.

Well, now I need to... Why were you omitted? You should have been there. I'm trying to think. Because you mentioned Brian Adams. You know, the heart, the brain trust of this, tears are not enough, is the Vancouver contingent.

Bruce Allen, you know, Jim Valence is co-writing this thing with, we mentioned Brian Adams. So, and then David Foster's producing it. There's a Vancouver heartbeat to T-Whorpe to T-Rexam. are not enough. Were you to Toronto? Maybe. Maybe I have no idea. All I know is I never got a call.

You want to know who else didn't get a call? Because I had him on the show and he didn't get a call. And he says it's because Bruce Allen was pissed at him. You want to know who didn't get a call? Yeah, I do. Randy Backman. Really? Well, that surprises me. Yeah. Well, you're in good company, I'm telling you. Well, now I don't feel so bad. Now I feel bad that I was going to ask you all these questions.

about a recording you weren't invited to. There you came. A party I wasn't invited to. I don't know what to tell you. You weren't invited. I can guess. I can guess what it was like.

Okay, guess. I was not there. I was not there. I can tell you, Mark Holmes from Platinum Blonde. Remember, this is for famine relief in Ethiopia, right? Right. So he took a limousine to the recording.

Of course he did. We opened for them a couple of times. One at Maple Leaf Gardens. And that was an experience. A million screaming girls. And they weren't screaming at the arrows. They were screaming at Platinum Blonde. Sounds like situation was critical.

Am I close to? Anyway, close to critical. Yeah, they were a big deal. That mid-80s, like, I mean, we mentioned Brian Adams, but put Corey Hart in there, platinum blonde. There was a scene, right? Yeah. there was a sea and you know there was a lot of Canadian artists

Luba whatever happened to Luba yeah let it go let it free your body let it I got to track down Luba next is she a good singer what a great singer she was yeah and you know we talked about you know Toronto Rocks and video hits and all this and that was a staple video for that jam yeah yeah okay let's bring you back to the arrows here because I do have some post arrows questions but another jam if don't mind. Okay, this inspired the chat. So here we go. This is another radio-friendly hit single here, I hear in my headphones. Yeah, I feel completely different about that one than maybe in the middle. I love that song.

Jerry Mosby, who's a songwriter, producer, friend of mine around Toronto, him and I sat down and fleshed a bit of that out, and then David got involved. And Earl Seymour wrote the Hornshed which is just killer, you know. And that was a lot of fun to record. The backgrounds, I think, are Sharon Lee Williams and Kalina Phillips, who are singers from Toronto. I feel like she was on Pocod Door. I think you're right.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But, yeah, I love that track. That track, that track opens some doors for us, you know. that track Dom Trano used that on a TV show called

Night Heat Oh yeah Sure And he actually used a couple He used to I can't let go on another episode He was very supporter of the band

Don was good Actually Dave Trite Tyson played in one of Donnie's bands So Don was at a few of our recording sessions for the lines are open. It's also worth noting, though, we talked about Randy Backman, and he was no longer in the band, I don't think, but he was a member of the guess who, right? Don Watch.

He was also in James game. Yeah. After Joe Walsh. He's the guy we lost far too soon. Oh, gosh, yeah. And just like, you know, they say you shouldn't meet your idols and stuff, but Donnie wasn't like that. He was just super approachable, just a pro, a gentleman. I can't, you know, I had the pleasure of getting to play with him on a number of occasions.

There was an old club called Derringers in downtown Toronto, which we were a host fan there. And Don came in and sat in for a couple of nights with us. I think Amos Garrett was another guest. Anyway, Don, I can't say enough good things. about Dominic Traylon. Just a brilliant, brilliant, musical mind.

Oh, I hear nothing but great things. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you took some time to remember him, for sure. Yeah.

Question about the video, though. Jerry, Jerry, the Garbage Man wrote this question for me. So Jerry, I follow him on a blue sky. Jerry the Garbage Man. Okay.

Please ask him if those drinks were glued to the tray. No, I, of course, they were. Yes. Yeah.

I believe they were. It was, We did three videos in two days. The three videos from that particular album, we did in two days. So it was nuts, you know. So I believe they were glued down, though. Okay. Home of Real Talk.

That's what we're looking for here. Okay. Good question, Jerry, the Gurbish Man here. So I do have a question for you, and I don't want this to sound mean because I've had such, I've had on, I mean, Blue Rodeos, Sloan is another. I could talk about the tragically hip, but there are some bands that are huge in Canada,

and for whatever reason, I mean, Kim Mitchell and I had a long chat about this. For whatever reason, they don't get pushed properly or promoted properly or get a chance to break in the United States of America. Now, talking in 2026, I'm like, screw those guys, it's their loss, whatever. But I'm curious if that was important to the arrows in the mid-80s.

Of course it was. And we went down and banked on the desks in L.A. and stuff. We went down to the old A&M office, this was in the Charlie Chaplin, the old Charlie Chaplin studio in Los Angeles. And myself and our manager at the time, and I'm trying to think there was any other members of the band. We went down to meet them and, you know,

and they do the glad handing while you're there and all that stuff. But it's, you know, my take on it is it's not their idea. You know, it's not the guy they've signed. So they're not going to get it. You know, and I mean, we had a lot of turntable success up here, but we weren't selling a lot of records, you know. And that's what they look at. If they're going to break a Canadian act in America or worldwide, at that time,

again, this is just my opinion, they're, you know, they're going to want to see sales. and if they don't see the sales then they're going to go with one of their own guys that they've nurtured and signed you know 100%

I'm in fact almost to a T what Kim Mitchell because Kim it was Go for Soda was the song yeah and what a great song and it should have been a worldwide hit right 100% but the the label decided to push

a single by Twisted Sister this is Kim talking to me but he said they chose to promote Twisted Sister single to the rock radio over Go For Soda. And then I guess the way the business was is it just would die in the vine. And he would just kind of come crawling back to Toronto and become a Canadian superstar. Yeah. Well, good for him. But that's my take on it anyway.

That makes sense to me. It makes me feel better that hearing that Kim sort of thought the same thing. Yeah, I mean, if they don't want Go for Soda, then screw them up. But apparently the Mothers Against Drunk Driving did use that song for like a promotional campaign of some sorts. I think I knew that. Don't be mad about it. But put two D's in Matt if you're going to be mad about it. Okay.

That's terrible. Okay. So here's what I got to, because I got, I have some post-aero stuff for you, but I need to know why does it. Is that why it ends for the arrows? Because you were a Canadian. There was a lot of, you know, we've been together for five or six years. And, and, and. it just

you know without getting any details it would be dirty details it was just we'd had enough we'd been on the road and it wasn't we weren't selling records you know

was what it came down and there was a question whether there was going to be another record because we weren't you know we we we weren't like I said we were having lots of turntable play and lots of radio airplay

but we we weren't selling any records, unfortunately. And it's expensive to tour

this country. Big time. Big time. I mean, and even back then, I mean, if, to put production

out there, you know, to go on the road, it's, it is not cheap. No. And as far as, you know,

the band breaking up, it was just kind of one of those things. that it just came to an end. It was every, we still talk to each other and we're still friends, but we realized that it kind of ran its course, you know? Right.

Now, post-Aros, I have a question from Avery, who writes in and says, how did you come to write how long on Haram-Scaram self-titled album from 1991? Wow. I met Pete and I'm having a brain cramp about the singer's name and it's going to come to me in a minute

Well you do you keep talking and I'll spit it out in this moment here And I There was Harry Hess Harry, of course Harry has Jesus Dean

But I am 73 by the way You're doing You know what? You're doing very well. I was braced for you to like, I don't remember the 80s. But, you know, you're kicking ass. All because you don't remember that you were on, tears are not enough by the moving life. Well, I think that's a definite though. Leota Boyd says she saw you there, okay? So who was that person? But anyway, I'm joking. Please continue with the herring scaram story. Yeah, Harem scaram. And I still, Pete and I still talk all the time. We're friends and we've written songs since then.

And myself and Gerald O'Brien, who is another songwriting friend of mine who we've written songs together over the years, we were, I think, in the running to produce the first Haram-Scarum record. And that fell apart. But somehow, because of that, Harry and Pete and I got together and wrote that song, how long? Like I said, I still talk to Pete all the time, and he's a good friend. Glad to hear it. Now, we're going to get to Amanda Marshall shortly, but I don't know much about the wonderful singer that is Winona Judd, but you worked closely with her writing some big jams, right?

Well, actually, here's the deal. I wrote with a, David and I wrote with a girl called Tina Arena. Oh, right. who's Australian, okay? And probably the best singer I ever worked with. And that's saying something, because I've worked with some great singers. We wrote, Heaven Helped My Heart, we wrote, Love's Funny That Way. Both those songs.

Unsung Hero. Unsung Hero, another one. But Heaven Helped My Heart and Loves Funny That Way, in particular, Heaven Help My Heart was a huge hit. for Tina in Australia and some other countries. And that's how Winona heard both those songs. She cut, she cut, heaven help my heart, loves funny that way. And that's how those, you know, they're fabulous recordings. David produced that, I don't think I said that,

but produced the Tina Arena stuff. Right. And they got, Winona's people got a hold of them because of Tina Arena. I'll tell you another little story is that right after she cut a couple of things. Winona called me one day out of the blue on a Sunday morning. She'd just come from church and said, and I had sent her some more stuff because she had cut the, And I met her. I'll tell you a real quick story.

I took my mom, my son and my wife to see Winona in Toronto. It used to be Ontario place, right? And we were five years back, and before the show, we went and met her. And I had this sheet music for Heaven Help My Heart. And we were in the line. She said, what are you doing with that?

I said, well, I wrote the song. She said, oh, oh, who's this? And she was so nice to my mom and my son, who was very young at the time. Anyway, we went into the audience and she opened the show with our song. And now whether she did that because she knew we were there, because she did look down, you know, it was like, man, it don't get it. For a songwriter, it don't get any better than that, you know. And I'll interject to say that Heaven Help My Heart by Winona Judd went to number 14 on the Billboard country charts.

I won an ASCAP award for that. Yeah. That is the dark horse, actually. Anyway, the point I was going to make, she called me on a Sunday morning. You send me these songs. She says, I'm going to cut that dark horse song. And I said, oh, oh, you can't do that. I'm sorry, you can't do that because Mila Mason had just cut it.

and it was coming out as a signal. And I had to tell when I'm a judge. Oh, you can't record that song. I'm so... I don't think she was very pleased. Anyway. Oh, no, that's funny. I just watched a documentary...

Hold on, I got to get the right names here. I just watched... I'm having trouble finding the name of the documentary, but I can tell you... that it was about Diane Warren. Okay, so I just watched it yesterday. It's about Diane Warren. And apparently Diane Warren, you know,

she wrote a lot of songs and a lot of big hits. She got Aerosmith, the number one hit. But she wrote a song, and she offered it to two different singers at the same time. It was, oh, gosh, I can't believe I'm blanking on the name of this song, but if I go to her wiki, maybe, it was a huge hit. and I want to get, oh yeah, Leanne, okay, how do I live?

Okay. So she writes, how do I live? And this is, I thought this was like, very, like, uncool of her to do this. But she writes, how do I live, which is a great song. It's going to be a hit. And she gives two artists this song to record at the same time,

but they don't know that the other's recording it or whatever. I think that's kind of uncooled. Yeah. To me. I don't think it's good for your credibility, although it's Diane Warren, so, you know. Yeah, but okay, so the two artists aren't even, So one artist is Leanne Rhymes.

Right. And one is Trisha Yearwood. So they both are basically going to drop this big bona fide hit. And they have to battle it out in the charts. Like you can see that, you know, I think Leanne Rhymes had the bigger crossover hit anyway, the bigger hit. But they were both big hits. But I was just thinking like the whole idea of like, oh, big artist, you can't record this song that might put some nice money in my bank account because another artist is doing. Well, I mean, when I said that to Winona, I mean,

And it was, you know, just because the song was coming out by Mila Mason, like within the next six weeks as a single. So I figured she had to know, you know, I'd had to. You know, that's because that's because you're cool. That's a cool thing to give her heads up. Right. And because that name, Mila Mason, is not a big name like Tricia Yearwood or Leanne Ron. No, but it was a big song. It was the only hit she ever had.

Right. You know, it was, like I said, I wanted to ask a award for her version, the country version in the U.S. Okay, so we're going to close with some Amanda Marshall talk, but I just want to shout out that that song we mentioned, Unsung Hero, Terry Clark had a pretty big hit with that too. She cut it too, yeah. And again, probably on the strength of Tina Arena's demo, you know.

Yes, 100%. And I like saying the name. name Tina Arena like it's fun to say. Yeah, she's quite the character and still sings her jail off. And the record that Heaven Help My Heart was on just had its 30-year anniversary. So she's doing a big tour through Australian stuff and that's good for me. Oh, no, this is all good for you. She's a little more radio airplay than we were.

Absolutely. That album's called Don't Ask. That's right. Okay, so are you ready? And then at the very end, if I missed anything, you want to shout out, of course,

we can do that. But I want to talk about Amanda Marshall because... What do you want to talk about? Okay, well, we'll have to get the story of, because you wrote, like when I think about that debut

self-titled album by Amanda Marshall, there's a series of big hits, and I think, oh, these are great songs, but, you know, some of these notable hits were penned by you, right? Is this you and Dave? David Tyson?

Yeah, for the most part, yeah. The most part, yeah. Like, so how do you, like, can you just tell me how you get involved with, because I've had, for example, I can tell you exactly how I got involved with her was, I was signed to TMP publishing, which is Frank Davies. Frank Davies started daffodil records with Crowbar, foot in cold water. Frank Davies is a great, great publisher. Anyway, and still, it's very, very active.

publishing songs in Toronto and a gentleman. He had a guy working for him as my songplugger called Mike Roth. Mike Roth ended up as head of A&R for Sony Records. He sent after working for us as a songplugger. When he went to Sony Records, he sent me a cassette of Amanda Marshall's voice doing cover tunes. He said this, we're thinking of signing this girl. Have a listen.

Tell me what you think. I said, she's great. I sent, either I sent the tape or he sent the tape to David Tyson. David said, I think she's great too. So I went to L.A. where David was based out of then and we wrote Birmingham pretty much in a night.

and that was the one that opened the doors for Amanda Marshall. She came down and pretty much what's on the record is what she sang that night. I mean, she's a great singer, just a great singer, you know. She was very young and, you know, just getting her feet wet as far as songwriting was going. but you could see what talent she had, you know, just amazing. Well, two of her biggest hits on that album, Dark Horse in Birmingham, you're a co-writer of both of those? Yeah, I had four on the record.

Last exit to Eden, and trust me, this is love too. So, okay, I don't even know what you can say to this. Maybe you can say nothing, but, okay, so she was known at the time before the debut album here, which is called Amanda Marshall. I think most Canadians own a copy of this CD, actually. This was huge. It went diamond here, yeah. Which is a million.

Well, Birmingham is, Birmingham, like, I mean, I had on the show, because he has a song on that album too, but not a hit like yours, but Christopher Ward's been on this program. I know, Chris, yeah. And he, of course, I think David Tyson has his fingerprints all over the Atlanta Miles album. Well, he produced it, yeah. Yeah, he produced it, right. Right.

But it's such a small world. It's all going to connect because, of course, Black Velvet. So Black Velvet was co-written by Christopher Ward, who was dating Atlanta Miles as well, which is a fun fact here. And that's how Greg Keeler got in Crash Vegas because he was dating Michelle McAdory at the time.

So this is an important Canadian musical history. You get to, you know, you know. Okay, but here's a long way of way of saying. So the first exposure some of us get to Amanda Marshall is the Jeff Healy band. That's right. And she's, yeah, she's, you know, I love Jeff Healy.

I live pretty close to where he's buried, actually, a Park Lawn Cemetery. Jeff Healy, what a legend. But the drummer of the Jeff Healy band is a guy he's no longer with us, but he's also been over for an episode. He's Tom Steven. Yeah, yes, I know. I know Tom Steven. So, shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. He's no longer with us.

But it's, you know, Amanda's kind of disappeared for, she's not very old now, but she disappeared for like. She's in her 50s. Yeah, like probably early 50s. but she disappeared for a couple of decades because she had a follow-up to this self-titled which had a lot of American interference, I call it. But it was noticeable to me that she doesn't really come back for her resurgence,

her return, until Tom Stephen dies. Like, do you have any insight into why Amanda Marshall seemingly disappeared for a couple of decades? Well, I would think it's got a lot to do with Tom Stephen. You know, my... experience was, David and my experience

with Tom Stephen was not very pleasant. Yeah, I don't know what else I can say without getting into trouble. I mean, I'm connecting, I mean, no trouble because he's passed away. I feel like Lauren says it's okay. And besides, if you tell the truth, you can't get trouble. And I'm not asking you to stir up any dirt. Well, I'll tell you a couple stories. I mean, just because that's what I'm here for. It's like that that after Birmingham came out in America,

that Tom went down to Tommy Motola at Sony and banged on the desk and said, you've got to release Dark Horse. And, you know, this next single, this is what it's got to be. And that was it. It was over for her. It was over for her in America.

Because they've got 10 other Amanda Marshalls, you know? Right. And I'm not going to be told by Tom Stephen. or anybody else for that matter, what they should be doing, you know. That's my Tom Stevens story. That's the one I'm going to tell. Well, you know, that's the one we can tell.

And then you can tell me all the rest later off the record. But I mean, I'm not an idiot, right? So I can connect these dots. And I do know about, like, legal activity. Yeah. Between her and him. Right. Yeah.

Well, she was, you know, he had her tied up for the last 25 years. Well, it pisses me off because what a tremendous artist, what a great voice, and what a hell of a self-titled debut album Amanda Marshall had. Well, no small thanks to you, but she's got the pipes. She's got the look. Absolutely. But she did, you know, in my estimation, she didn't have the songs after the first record. And that may be part of Tom Stevens doing too.

you another little story while I'm thinking about it. It's like there's a song in the record called Last Exit to Eaton, which is pretty much mine. And he came to us after it was recorded and said, I want a piece of that song. I want a piece of that song where it's not going on the record. You know who that sounds like? He said, Amanda wants a piece, you know, and that means he wants a piece, right? a piece, right? Because he's got a piece of a pair. And we just said, uh, and knowing my growth, the A&R guy, they'd spent 15 grand on the track. There's no way they were pulling it

off the record. And we just said, that's not going to happen, you know. Uh, if you want the song, it's as is, uh, you're not going to get a piece of it. Anyway, that's what she was dealing with for the last 25 years in my estimation. No, I have tried very hard. to get Amanda Marshall to visit the basement here for a chat because she's got a, she's on a comeback after Tom Steven passed away. But I'm unsuccessful so far, but I'm still trying

because I would love to talk to this talented Canadian musician. So would I. You can co-host that episode with me when it... I haven't talked to her in 30 years, you know? Yeah. It's unfortunate.

It is unfortunate. But she hasn't talked to David. I know she hasn't talked to David. And I don't know whether Chris service talked to her or not. Well, you all got painted with this. Sounds like this experience with Tom Stephen was so negative that she sort of painted you all with the same brother. I kind of think, yeah, she was young and very impressionable and was sold a bill of goods by somebody who, you know, was not the nicest man, I don't think.

No. Lord knows that the music business is full of people like Tom Steer. And, you know, like you said, I shouldn't be speaking this way about him because he's passed on. Well, you're just telling the truth, right? And I feel like these stories should be shared because, and again, I do need to talk to Amanda. But when you connect these dots, these are, you know, your core years as a, Chantus are your 20s and 30s. These are the core years.

Now, one thing when you talk about that move, that uncool move Tom Stephen does, wanting a piece of the action, it does remind me of a more successful producer who would pull that move. Phil Specter. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, this kind of stuff happened all the time,

but that doesn't mean you get into it. I mean, I can remember, when I was first getting started, David and I wrote a song called Cestry when I fall that Smokey Robinson wanted to cut. I mean, back, I mean, we had had like two minor cuts before this. This was a big deal. And they said, well, and of course, Smoky wants half of it. It's like, that's not right.

Right. So, I mean, looking back, we probably should have gave it to him, you know? You know, it's little. But that kind of stuff, you know, I don't know whether it still goes on, but it certainly backed in. It went on all the time. Well, the game is rigged. Yeah, pretty much. And the only way you can't lose is if you don't play.

I guess so. You're writing these down? I'm giving these lines, Dean. You've got to write these down. Well, I am writing. Quick anecdote here before we wrap, because you've been amazing. I really, really, this is all I could ever hope for. I really enjoyed this.

And the smoke detector didn't go out. No, I know. Like, it could go off now and I'll just do the extra without you. I actually put it in my garage and covered it with like a sweater. Wow. Because it just wouldn't stop. Jeez. Okay, that sounds like torture.

But Brian Wilson famously was obsessed with the rawnets. And you know the jam. He couldn't get out of his head. So he wrote a song for the rawnets. And the song he wrote for the raw nets was a don't worry baby. and Phil Spector wouldn't let them record it because Phil Specter wasn't going to get a writing credit. And so that's a true story that Brian Wilson tells.

Anyways, Beach Boys had a hit with it, but the rest is history. But that was written for the Ronettes. Wow. Brian Wilson. I heard a story once that David Clayton Thomas was offered Bridge Over Trouble Waters and turned it down before Simon and Garfun put it out. Yeah. Yeah, those stories.

Okay, wow. Next thing you're going to tell me is Otis Redding recorded respect before Aretha. I won't believe it if you tell me that story, though. I did not know. I do not know. Well, it all comes back to Stax Records and Rob Bowman. And as far as Stax goes, that was my favorite on Stax with Otis. What a voice.

I mean, the voice. And to think that he wrote those songs, you know. And Steve Crawford just passed away like a few months ago. Yes. That was my guy. That band, if you see any of the early footage of Booker T and the MGs, there's one from Norway or something, those guys could play, you know, ducked on. I forget what the drummer's name is, Al, something. Fabulous fan.

Anyway. No, I love that chat there and what inspires you. And that's all legendary stuff. and if people want to check out the recent visit from Rob Bowman, we go into all that. But Otis Redding, there's a guy when you think of what he wrote and what he'd call. Steve Cropper produces Doc of the Bay.

But of course, it's posthumous. Yeah, absolutely. And it goes to number one. I think I believe in the history of Billboard, that was the first time a number one song went to somebody who had passed away. Oh, I didn't know that. There you go.

I'm dropping the bombs on you here. That's a fabulous. It's a fabulous song. Well, fabulous song, Good production by Steve Cropper, who sadly no longer with us. And you're still going strong here on our way out. Like, what's occupying?

I know you said you're 73, but there's no rest for the wicked, Dean. What are you up to these days? I still write. And I play the odd gig here and there. When a good songwriting, I like the songwriting gigs when I can just show up by myself now.

I did a gig with a band last year, and it was fabulous, the playing part. But when you don't do it, all the time. For me, anyway, it's a lot, a lot of preparation to get ready so I don't get up there and make a complete ass on myself, you know? But I still write four or five days a week. So, and that keeps me somewhat sane.

I'll bet. And in your entire lifetime of writing songs, many of which have become rather big hits. Like, if you had to pick one, okay, you get the only, the only, the only, the only, you only song you get to keep that you wrote. Which song do you keep? That's tough. That's tough. I think Birmingham's the best lyric I ever wrote.

Yeah. If I wrote Birmingham, I'd get a T-shirt made that said I wrote Birmingham and I would just... And you know what? Sometimes it happens fast. That lyric, for the most part, happened in a night. That is not the norm for me. Not for me. It just kind of fell out of the sky in L.A. one night.

And, you know, there may have been some stimulants involved. That's the real talk. Yeah. It doesn't happen like that for me. It's work. More perspiration than inspiration for me, for sure, for the most of the time. Wow. And we did, so we mentioned the name Christopher Ward and we mentioned much music.

It's worth noting that Christopher Ward is tied with a gentleman for being the first DJ in much music history because when they launch much music, They both go through this paper wall thing. They burst through it. It's Christopher Ward. Can you name the other guy beside him? It wasn't Mike. Was it?

No, he wasn't quite there yet. He's another guy from Cleveland, by the way, Mike Williams. Here's a clue. It wasn't John what's his name? You got it. You got it. John Major. No, but you're close.

No, John Roberts. J.D. Roberts. Yeah, and today he's probably, maybe he's in Davos, Switzerland covering seven. That would be my guess. That's where he is today. Jesus. Some old man is going to go off on windmills. I can only imagine what could happen there.

All we'll say is if you had a loved one who was rambling on about windmills and stuff, you would get that person some medical help and some assistance. I would think so. It's scary. if it, you know, it would be funny if it wasn't so scary, you know. Yeah, if he didn't have the world's largest military at his disposal, this would be rather hilarious. Just when you think he can't do anything, any stupider, he does.

All right. Well, Dean, I'll save you, I'll save you from becoming a tart. by having if we trash that guy anymore because he's pretty a thin-skinned narcissist and uh but i love this very much and i appreciate you giving me all this time and uh anytime you need anything tronel mike is here we get we can do this again sometimes but i love this so thank you it's great mike thanks so much thanks so much it was fun and that brings us to the end of our 1,836th show. Go to

Torontomike.com for all your Toronto mic needs. Much love to all who made this possible. Again, that's Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Nick Iini's, Recycle My Electronics.C.A. And Redley Funeral Home. See you all tomorrow when David Bronstein,

if you watched late-night TV in the 90s, You probably saw a Dial-A-date infomercial starring David Bronstein. We're going to talk about that and more live from the Toronto Mike Basement Studio. See you all then.