Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Derek Downham: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1971

Episode Date: September 14, 2026

In this 1971st episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with award-winning musician, producer, and indie cult icon Derek Downham about GRINDIG and the legendary artists with whom he's played and recorded.A version of this podcast without programmatic ads is available to all Toronto Mike'd Patrons at patreon.com/torontomike.Toronto Mike'd, an award-winning podcast, is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca.If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, Toronto. I'm Derek Downham. I am a producer, a multi-instrumentalist. Been around in the Toronto scene for over 30 years. And it is my honor and pleasure to be on the Toronto Mike show. The pleasure is all mine, Mr. Downham. Welcome to episode 1,971 of Toronto Mic. An award-winning podcast, proudly brought. to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great Lakesbeer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees.

From Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Visit palma Pasta.com for more. Fusion Corpsohniton Nick Aienies. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline. and Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recyclemyelectronics.c.cate.cating to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto Mike debut, it is indeed musician Derek Downham.

How are you, Derek? I'm feeling fantastic. If I felt any better, I'd cancel my O-HIP. Don't do that. I love this beautiful country, so no, I will not be doing that. Okay, good. We need great Canadians like you, Derek. Tell me about these tattoos I'm looking at here.

Oh, okay. Well, these are actually cardinals that are a tribute to my mother. My late mother passed away about six years ago now. Sorry about that. That's okay. You know, we all have to go through it, and I lost my father as well. But it's a tribute to her. Actually, the name of my studio is studio Cardinal, Toronto.

And it's like a living tribute to her. Was that her favorite bird or something? You know, she kind of came to visit me as a bird the day she passed away. And I had a friend kind of mentioned it. Right. It's just she did love Cardinals and she loved birds in general. And I used to go with her and her mother to look at birds. And, you know, we've always kind of been obsessed with it.

People say, like, you know you're getting older when you're... When you become a bird? Yeah, a bird. But I've been a bird in my whole life, man. You've always been older. Yeah, I guess so. I will say, I'm very sorry for your loss, but the cardinal is a beautiful bird. Like, you know, the highlights of the backyard in Toronto is like, you know, they always

travel in pairs, right? Like, oh, the Cardinals are here or there's a Blue Jay back there. Like, these are like the beautiful birds of the Toronto backyards. They truly are. And I've got, uh, I had a nest in my yard this year, actually. and... Lucky man. Oh, that could be your mom.

Very beautiful. I mean, she's always with me. So even the mention of her, it brings it back. So it's always great. Beautiful tattoos, though. Thank you. I've noticed now I feel like, and this could be just maybe because I do a lot of

waterfront trail cycling, and then I see a lot of people in their shorts and their t-shirt or whatever. And I noticed the number of people without ink is now outnumbered by the number of people with ink. Oh, absolutely. Like I think it's flipped because when I was growing up, It was like the rebels got the badasses, the rebels, the cool people got the tattoos.

But now I feel like maybe the way to truly rebel to be a renegade is to be inkless. I'm not against that at all. And I've noticed it as well. My ex had no tattoos, many of my, and then I've had other girlfriends that are covered up to the faces. And there's, I don't, you know, it doesn't really, it doesn't mean. what it used to me once mean. It used to be like sailors or people coming out of jail. Yeah, my grandfather was covered in traditional, like, hammered tattoos that he got.

Right. Like in the Navy or something? Yeah, or he was in the Ukrainian army. Oh, wow. And so, but he had worked on a, he had a giant dragon tattoo on his back. It was wild. And, yeah, I mean, he wasn't that badass. of a guy.

But you wouldn't know it until you got to know him. Sure. There's a badass right there. Hey, I got to do a fact check on myself. This was pointed out by Y, Y, Y, Y, Y, Z, Gord. I always want to call him Y, Y, Y, Z, Gord, but he keeps saying it's Y, Y, Y, Z Gord.

Okay, it's always Zed to me. But Y, Y, Y, Z Gord, listen to the Ralph Ben Murgie episode, which was, I think we recorded it maybe Wednesday last week. I don't know. It was late last week. And at some point, Ralph Benmergy brought up the cyber truck. And he asked me, how much does it cost for a cyber truck?

And I haven't bought, listen, Derek, I haven't bought a new car. I haven't bought a car period since the 90s. So the last time I bought a car was the 90s. So I don't know what's going on with car prices. But I said, I'll read what Y, Y, YZ, Gort wrote, he wrote, Just Working My Way Through the Ralph podcast, it's charming that Toronto Mike thinks a cyber truck might cost the large sum of $75,000. The base model is $140,000.

for all your large penis needs. That's a joke, something Ralph and I came up with. They have to listen to the episode. But I don't know. Would you buy a cyber truck, Derek? I mean, they are, I've been inside one. Oh, wow. Okay.

And they are spectacular in their spaciousness and the height of technology. But absolutely the douchiest vehicle you could have a step foot in. I have huge respect for, Ralph actually in his show he had the he used to have the the look people were his house band 100% Friday night with Ralph Ben Murgie and I have a summer up here there's vinyl from the look people but yeah absolutely uh James B was the the head music guy yeah and great Bob Scott and and a friend uh Kevin Hearn from bare naked ladies

and Lou Reed's band 100% who's now doing work with the real statics yeah he's done he's I mean he used to come and play with us with the beauties at the Dakota we played it we were the host band at the Dakota Tavern for 11 years. And he used to come down and play with us because he was playing with Lou Reed. And so we would play, you know, waiting for my man and Velvet Underground songs. And gratefully, I got to play with Lou Reed's band with him after he passed. He did a tribute on CBC and Andy Kim was there and I was his guitar player. So I got to hang out during the day and jam with his band, which was so great.

Okay, we're definitely going to get back to Andy Kim. I'm going to see how you self-described here. There will be name-dropping. Yeah, and I'm hoping you won't be shy about it. Like, just drop all the names. Oh, yeah. You're in trouble. You are the Kevin Bacon of Canadian Rock.

Okay? You're connected to everybody and many, many FOTMs, like Andy, we'll get to it, but Andy Kim and Andy Stochansky, and we're going to get to all of this, okay? But I do, there's a band I want to start with here. So, and then we'll kind of name drop, like it's our job to name drop.

So I guess I'm issuing, I'm sorry for thinking to cyber truck might cost 75K. It sounds like I was halfway there maybe if you just want the base model. Really? Yeah. Well, it's 140K for the base model. And I mean, if you're buying a cyber truck,

you probably don't buy the base model. I'm thinking you go big. No, big, you know, pun intended. But I'm agreeing with you, it is, if you want to like say to the world, like, I'm a douchebag, buy a cyber truck. It's the fastest and quickest way to, like, convey that.

In the, in the defense of the people who bought it off the, off the hump. Like they didn't realize that there was going to be a madman attached to it, really. You are incorrect, sir, because I've done this timeline.

Okay, so when the first orders were placed for cyber truck, we already knew who Elon Musk was. So that's your excuse for buying like a Tesla like 10 years ago. Yeah, okay, that's what I'm thinking of then. Okay, okay.

Can I play a song for you? Of course you can. And then we're going to get right into it. And again, this is going to be fantastic. But we're going to start with a jam here. This is where we begin. This is where we get. This is where we get.

Derek. Tell the listenership, what are we listening to? Wow. So you just blew my mind with that. That's a band I fronted called Grindig, like G-R-I-N-D-I-G. All caps. I was voted out of the band name just to let you know,

even though I wrote all the songs. Grindig. But it was an adorable mispronunciation of the word grandfather in Japanese. our original drummer, Kevin Kamatsu, shout out. His grandfather is Ji Chan. It was a mispronunciation of the word G. Chun. So it's a word that literally means nothing to us. But I found out many years later that it actually means like dusty and scabby in German

or something like that. So there is another band called Grindig if you can believe this. Yeah, I didn't know. But that song in particular, that was the first song on our record, And we... It's a banger, man. You know what? We had a song called The Best of You that became a top ten song on Much Music.

The Much Music was a station that played videos back in the day, kids. That's something you never need to say to the Toronto Micrositation. Yeah, okay, so you've got that audience, the older, my age audience. So it was, I mean, I was honored to be an indie band that was able to do such great things. Like, we got to play at the Air Canada Center. We got to tour with Big Sugar opening for Big Sugar and my favorite bands like The Watchman of Big Sugar and yeah And that's how Gord Downey learned of me

Like in that song we're the same to now Like you know there's some big sugar elements It's interesting because he had offered to produce the album And I said no And he produced a little band called The Trues instead Right And they ended up moving on to great things The unfortunate part of Grindig was

like we did really great. We sold like 5,000 independent copies of our record, something like that, which was a real feat in 2002. Sure. Because our records were on the shelves with, the Rolling Stones are selling their 50 Lix record for $4. And ours is being sold as an import for $2.25.

Oh, yeah, I'm sorry, I've been interrupting, but this is the, okay, so, and the potato quality is due to the fact You have to find these bad rips on YouTube here. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's not, we've never put it online since. Okay, let's listen to me. By the way, I'm looking at a young Derek Downham here.

It's hilarious. Look at you. Handsome, son of a bitch. Yeah, it's all changed now. I don't think so. Let's hear it. Munch music sensations, Grindig. You know, it's funny because this song is called The Best of You.

And they're right about a, A few weeks after we released this. I can guess for this story. Yes, there was a very famous band came out with a song of the very same name. I heard he was the drummer in Nirvana. He sure was. And, you know, often I get compared, gratefully I get compared to great Dave Grohl sometimes

because I play a myriad of instruments and I do this kind of thing. But it was very hard to swallow at the time because it was like, are you kidding me? And then Prince covered it on the Super Bowl or something like. thought? And it was like, like, what are what? This, this is just unbelievable. So, um, not SEO friendly. I do, you know, I still have people to this day get a hold of me about this song and, and some of the other songs. And, um, a dear, uh, friend of mine actually and his wife, it's like their wedding song. It's their, you know, there's some, there's some beautiful moments

with this group. And shout out Hank McEwen and, uh, Roman Tomey and Jeff Lowe and Stefan Sazniak as well. And, and my, our manager. Sasha. They were just, it was a wonderful time and I'm really proud of it and it made me who I am as a musician today. I realized I didn't want to be a front person. Yeah, so let's, okay, so let's just do a little, we'll do Grindig off the top and then, you know, you've done a lot since then, but you're the, so are you the principal songwriter? Yeah, these were, these were my songs. So you're writing the songs and you're singing the songs and you look like you're ready for the cover of Teen Beat Meg. Yeah, right. Well, I was, I was, you know, or Tiger Beat,

20, early 20s at that point, so I'm 50 now. So if you don't mind, because this is Toronto Mike, then I need the granular details. I don't know how many podcasts are going to do a Grindig deep dive. Oh, this is, uh, that's why you're blowing my mind right now. I was not expecting it, but I love it. Well, I need to know, okay, so I need to know,

like, who are you when Grindig is formed? Like, give me a little, uh, background on Derek Downey. I left home at 14. Whoa. And I was, which was way too young, but it is what it is. and, you know, my father and I had a very strained relationship for a long time, and he wasn't in touch with who he was as a human many times. And neither was I.

And I left more, we've all got our piles. Yeah, well, we've all got our piles, right? And I moved in with a friend who was older and who worked at a record store, so I got to grow up on some really amazing records that a lot of people didn't get to listen to. Right. And I played with older musicians. And then I decided, you know, I wanted to be a musician. So I was supposed to be a, I was a AAA hockey player in Oshawa.

And then when we moved to Port Hope, it was a different thing because there was already great goaltenders there. So my first band actually was with the rep goaltender there, a guy named Dano Stewart, my friend's Ashley and Ben. But Dano Stewart's, he just became the goalie coach for the New Jersey Devils. Oh, wow. Yeah, from Port Hoare. You know, Rob Proust, who's a dear friend of the show, his nephew is a goaltender with that organization. No way. So he would know Dano, I'm sure.

Right. So we're all very proud of Dano. He's a dear friend, but he was a guitar player in my first band. And I was the drummer and singer because nobody would sing and nobody would play drums. What was the name of this band? We were called Blue Sky Horizon was our first name. And then we were the id. And we thought we were clever.

Well, that's a little pretentious. But it was, of course it is. And, but we also had our friend, another goal he came in around the same time was Zach Burke, who's the brother of Sebastian Bach from Skid Row. Wow. And sang with us. So we had a little bit of a funny little pedigree of all the three goaltenders. But, you know, with that, he had the rock and roll pedigree, obviously.

And so many Canadian musicians are also goaltenders. Like there is a, oh, yeah, great key. In a band diagram. Greg Keeler. Yeah, yeah. He's a buddy. And you've heard his story from 1972, right? I'm not sure.

Where I guess Bobby Orr was injured. And I guess they needed, I think this was at varsity arena, but I could be mistaken there. But I think they needed him to take some shots or something on somebody. And Keeler, was he with the U of T varsity blues or something? I could be butchering this story. I got to ask Jeff Merrick for the details again. Although I did ask Keeler on this program. But somehow Keeler ended up taking shots from Bobby Orr as he tried to see if he could play in the

1972 summit series. Wow. He did not play. I've taken some hard shots. I've taken shots from Ally Afraidy. That is a hard shot. Yeah, it's the hardest shot in the NHL at that point. Ally Afraidy, man.

I love, that's my Leafs team and those 80s teams. They were terrible, but I loved him. Like I was a kid, so I was the youngest kid. I think I was the youngest guy to go out for Osheria General's training camp. Wow. And I think. And what era are we in the Lindross era? Where are we?

So that's funny because this story kind of, I think it's in, Dave Bedini's new book. Speaking of the Rio Static. Yeah, he'd mentioned it to me. And I was like, yeah, sure, tell it. But I went out for, and I kept stone in Lindross the whole day because he was so powerful on the team. Yeah.

When he would hit the ice, he'd just win the game. Like, I've never seen anybody do that before. And when I was asked to go out for the training camp, I'm, I'm 14 years old. I'm a kid. Right. And these guys are like, they're teenagers, but they're massive teenagers. Yeah.

Well, yeah. And Charles was a man child. Yeah, yeah. And like he had his autobiography written before he even hit the NHL. He would, and take that for what it is. But he walloped one from the hash marks on me near the end of the first kind of, it was training. Try out. It was like training camp.

So, but it hit me underneath my arm on my pad on my left hand side, which is actually injured right now. And I couldn't move my arm for a week. It felt like I got shot. Yeah. So he had such a powerful shot. And I'm, you know, it pretty much spelled the end of my hockey career at that point because I'm like, if guys are shooting that hard and I get hit like that again, like that's just, I never want to feel that.

But I will say in your defense, you are facing against a guy who is a freak of nature in that at 16 years old, he could have played in the NHL. Absolutely. So, I mean, they don't make them like that. No. You know, that's generational stuff. We're talking of Eric Wendez. Yeah.

Oswa is such a great hockey city. and that was a great thing. But then we moved to Port Hope, and Port Hope is really, I consider my hometown. They've really embraced me and I've embraced them and my friends from there

are friends I will have for life. Has Port Hope embraced the fact? That's where Wheels' dad on DeGrassey. Oh, we talk about it all the time, man. And then you get the, when Wheels, you know, he's with his grandparents, living with his grandparents, but when he goes to Port Hope to see his dad

and they got that band, Mike and the Drifters. Mike and the drifters. He's got the mustache and, you know, he plays, he's playing his guitar or whatever and Mike snaps at him or whatever. Port Hope, that's how I knew Port Hope for the longest time.

Shout out Greenwood Towers. Okay. And, you know, Jimmy Boskell from Blue Rodeo is a dear friend as well. Okay. He did a parody of it a few years ago. And for like a, it was like a gig he was doing or something. And he did a thing. I think he was playing it.

the Gannararesco Hotel. And he did a parody of it and had clips from the show. And it was so funny, man. It was so well done. Hook that to my veins. You kidding me? Now, okay, now you're in the right place here. Okay.

So, oh yeah, we got to get to the Grindig. So you're at Port Hope. Yes. So then I left home and then I moved to Kensington Market. I, uh, um, and I'm in my late teens and basically lived on the streets for a while because I just didn't have any place to go. And I had a, I had a, uh, uh, five-string guitar that I had stolen from my high school.

And I was learning how to play. And I was learning how to sing. And I was just determined that I was going to come up with something. Right. I'd started playing piano when I was younger, much to the chagrin of my father. But I would take lessons behind his back at my grandmother's house. Wow.

And your dad didn't want you to play guitar. No, he wanted me to play hockey. He was a hockey, true, true hockey dad and very aggressive about it. I know those guys. Oh, you know, he was a coach. all the things. But it's, you know, it is what it is.

And I've moved on, but it's, you know, we should never fear our parents. We should always, home should be a safe place. And I wasn't feeling that. And, you know,

and I can, I could say these things in, in confidence that if I had a stay at home, I don't know if I would even be here today. And it's one of those things where, I love, you know, you,

I never forget. And I think that's what a lot of people do and when they're working through their own traumas and everybody's got their own, you know, their own piles. And you never know what somebody's going through. No, everybody's fighting a war.

We know nothing about. 100% Mr. Downham. And we, you know, and I try to take that with me every day of my life. And so when I was in Kensington Market, I was,

you know, like I was kind of squatting around with friends and living with different people and in Toronto and living in the streets for a while. and, you know, just starving. And then I met these guys one day. We were supposed to move down to Los Angeles, and everything fell through one day. And I was like, a couple of friends of mine,

they were like, well, do you want to just start a band the three of us? And I was like, because we were going to start a band with another friend. And I was like, yeah, sure. So Grindig started as a three piece with my friends, Kevin Kamatsu and Hank McEwen. And he lives in Port Hope now, oddly enough.

There you go. Yeah. So, but we, we practiced every day, man. We were the tightest band in Toronto for sure. Like, I couldn't think of another band that got tighter than we did. We had a room to me and Jeff Lowe and just wonderful musicians. And I was honored to play with them. And then we got, we were one of the crazy bands that got like a record,

like a signed deal from Canadian Music Week, which is now called Departure, I guess. So, but, you know, when people question those things, They're like, oh, there's nobody ever gets signed at these things. Nobody ever does it. Well, I did. And I'm, you know, I know that I'm fortunate for that. But we also, we went through the trenches in Kensington Market. We would play three nights a week.

We would carry our gear on top of the bass amp because it had wheels and we were so broke. And we would play at the, at the reverb on Tuesdays. We would play at the comfort zone on Wednesdays and a little place called like Foubrack on Thursday nights. And we got so tough. And all the other days, we were just practicing. So, and writing songs. And I was writing songs and just working at it. And there was so many songs we had that never got recorded.

But we developed a really great local following. And we were, you know, we were packing, you know, like the horseshoe and helies and different places on nights where they could, as Teddy Fury putty, he putty, like you could usually shoot a cannon through this place on a night like tonight. But you guys have. Sounds like it's happening for Grindig. Things went really well. And we're going really well. But, you know, things happen in our lives,

and we signed into a deal with some stuff that just didn't necessarily... I was being criticized for putting on weight by... Not by Sass who was, I would consider our main manager, but there was another entity involved that was very critical of my looks and how I was presented to the public. And this is not how I wanted to be... It's not why I got into music. I didn't get into it.

No, you're not a boy band. No, and I didn't, and, you know, and I was honored that you would say, I had good looks. I was younger, that's really sweet of you to say, but it's one of those things where I've just, you know, my genetics are what they are. And I've got my dad's gut and I've got different things and I've got, and, you know, and I work hard at it. I just beat type two diabetes, man. Amazing.

I've been really, you know, focused on it. But it crushed me that, you know, I was being told that, you know, I was being told that. hey man, the new album sounds great. We were about to come out with the second record. New album sounds great. Lose 20 pounds. And just getting this thing. And it's like, well, wait a second.

I'm eating for the first time of my life, you know, like in forever. Like, I really just, I really just want to make music. So it kind of dissipated the band, which broke my heart because I really, I love those guys dearly, and I love the band. And those were my sons. This manager who's, you know, shaming you or whatever. Fuck that guy. Well, yeah.

And, well, and it's, you know, I'm not going to name his name because he doesn't deserve it. But the, I mean, he deserves a few things. But he did, he did help me out. And that's your call. And other things. And, yeah, and it's one of those things where, you know, my dirty laundry is my dirty laundry. And I looked back at that. And then I started, you know, Kringdik, we did some great thing.

We got voted the best on signed band in Canada by all the radio stations across Canada. would do a thing. And Edge 102 would do it every year where it was, it was like... New music search. Yeah. So we won that. I know it well, my friend. We won that in 2002.

And we got to play at the Air Canada Center with our friends in Sloan there in the tea party. Wow. A bunch of different people. And it was wonderful. Like, it was an amazing thing. But it's hard to keep a band together, man. And it's, you know. Especially when it's not particularly lucrative.

Well, this is it. Well, this is it. Like, I mean, we had a manager, the guy who was, you know, hard on my looks and stuff like that. He was also the money guy. And, you know, sometimes you just have to move forward and just go, well, this is what it is. And so now I've basically, you know, I've gone independent. But I decided I was going to become a side person and just own my other instruments and get better at them if I could. So soon after that,

I started playing with Hugh Dillon from the Headstones. Well, I got a note, okay. I'm like, okay, here we got Derek down and making his Toronto mic debut. And right away a note came in, I think he was in the Headstones. No, I was in what's called the Hugh Dillon Redemption Choir. Right. And we not the Headstone. No, but we made two records with Paul Languwe from the hip.

FOTM, Paul Languant. Come on, Derek. Friend of Toronto Mike. Oh, okay. Well, Paul. As you are, my friend. Wonderful, wonderful guy. Yeah, sweetheart.

So, you know, and I made a couple of records with them, and that was really, and I was on drums, and that was really an interesting thing. So a great little experience for a while it lasted, but, you know, I had to move on from that as well and left that group and started playing around with many different people, but then I met this guy named Andy Kim. Okay, so let's pause there because we're going to drop some major names here,

because we're going to dive into your relationship with Andy Kim. who's been here a couple of times and who I just love chatting with. Like I just love one-on-one long conversations and not all of these have been recorded. You talked about fathers, okay? We were having coffee upstairs on my kitchen chatting about fathers

and we had a... This is really heavy, deep conversation stuff with Andy Kim. I really like this guy. So we're going to talk about Andy Kim and then we're going to drop names like it's our job to drop names, okay? So Grindig and Grindig, by the way,

current status of Grindyndy, dig is rear view mirror. Shout out the pearl jam, but like this thing is done. Oh, way, way done. Way done. Like early 2000? Okay, 20 years done. Okay.

I'm here going to, at the end of this conversation, I'm going to get you to do a reunion show. Grindig maybe at a Toronto mic listener experience. Okay, on that note, we're talking right now, Derek, on September 14, 2026. Two weeks from today, which is September 28, 28, 2026, TMLX, 23 takes place. That is the 23rd Toronto-Miked listener experience. It is a free event.

Free event. Did I say it's free? Everybody who hears my voice is invited. You just go to the GLB brew pub, which is Jarvis and Queens Key. So, east of Young, believe it or not, most of my events are West of Young. But this one's Jarvis and Queens Key,

and it's 6 to 9 p.m., again, September 28th. Please come by, hang out with a bunch of great FOTMs. I'll be there, of course. There'll be some grub. If you're so inclined, there will be a complimentary beverage from Great Lakes Brewery.

Put that in your calendar and make a point to be there, Derek, if you can. I plan on it. Okay. Bring friends, though, because this was an interesting event in that traditionally, this GLB Brew Pub TMLX event

was capped at 40 people, and you had to RSVP and these spots went very quickly. And then this year they surprised me and said, Okay, Mike, you can have 60. So that 60 list filled up very quickly. But I got a note last week from James at the GLB Brew Pub that they're going to be closed that day

and they're only going to open for my event, which means we get the whole damn restaurant and there's no cap. So I have this list of 60 people that I expect to see there, but I'm now here to say, everyone is invited. Bring your friends. Bring everybody.

Fantastic. Okay. So thank you Great Lakes Brewery. Also, what I have upstairs in my freezer for you, you, Derek, is a large frozen lasagna from palm pasta. That is delicious. You're taking that home with you today. I'm already eating it.

It's delicious. In my mind, I'm eating it. In my mind, I'm eating palma pasta. You can write a song about that. There we go. Who's my doing there? James Taylor. Who the hell am I doing there?

Okay, Ridley Funeral Home at 14th in Lake Shore has sent over. This is not just a measuring tape and a flashlight. It's also a bottle opener and a leveler. Man, this thing is like a four and one key. chain for you, Derek. That's a new and improved measuring tape from really funeral. That is amazing.

I can always use that. And to make it work, you've got to pull that little plastic thing because that makes the battery work and then it becomes a flashlight. Derek, you're in the good place here. I didn't know I was getting swag.

I didn't know what's getting stuck out. I wish I had more for you, but what I have is advice for you. I'm blown away. I appreciate it. If you, Derek Downham, have old electronics, old devices,

old cables in a drawer. in a drawer or a closet or a room. I don't know what's going on. You don't put that in the garbage because then those chemicals end up in our landfill. You go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca. You put in your postal code and find out where you drop that off

to be properly recycled. You got that? I feel like you have a camera in my place and you're just watching me live. How much stuff are we talking about? You got crates in a studio, right? Whereabouts in the world is a studio? I'm in West and Toronto,

so I'm out, but I'm, Yeah, Dufferin and Dundas area. Oh, yeah. Okay. It's in a 120-year-old house. Kind of like the hip studios in a house, and I always like the idea of that. Well, the studios in a house.

That's the Toronto Sound is from... 110 years old, this house. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, that's about the same. That's why you have the duck. Yeah, it's beautiful. They didn't know people would ever use their basements. I believe this is like...

So, 1916, this house is made. And I don't think anyone considered that anyone would ever use... No one's going in that basement. Like, that's the thought, I think. And then, you know, unless they're... Hobbits or something. Okay. I love it.

All right. So last but not least, much love to Nick Aienes and his wonderful podcasts, building Toronto Skyline, and Mike and Nick. And Nick Aeneas, I hope to see you at TMLX 23 on September 28.

Nick is with Fusion Corp, and he stepped up to help fuel the real talk on Toronto Mike. We love you, Nick. Okay. Where to go here? So do you want to do the Andy Kim thing first and then we'll name check all these greats that you have played with.

A lot of the greats who I've played with. have been through my dear friend Andy Kim. Okay. Yeah, so. Well, tell us about how you met Andy, your relationship of Andy, what you've been doing for Andy. Let's do that. I used to host an original singer-songwriter night on Sunday nights at a little place

called The Only Cafe with my, uh, yes. And the lowest of the low road about that. Yes, absolutely. And I, that's really funny because I just did a song with, uh, with Ron, with Tom Barlow. But anyways. Okay. Well, Ron Hawkins, dear. friend of the show. You were at my Elmo gig

for gosh, excellent. Well, that's, we both performed together on the new Tom Barlow single. Okay. Yeah. So anyways. I need to know these things. Yeah, that's, uh, again, the six degrees of Derek Downham. But, uh, so I was playing with a guy named Tim Bova Conti, who is the guitar player who's who. Yeah. Oh, has he? Yeah. That's great. I love Bobo. So we've been friends a long time and we had a singer

song right night with him and Terry Gowan and we did all original music. Um, and, and, And it was an open stage. You had to play originals. But Tim at the time was playing with a guy named Maron Sex Meth. Well, you know what? I was going to say he's being here. He's been on the show a couple of times.

But he seems to zoom in from Stratford or something. Right. Yeah, he got to get that guy in Toronto. He used to live in Toronto. And that's how I met him. But we started playing together one day and he's like, oh, I want to introduce you to my friend, Andy. I think you're really going to like him.

And so we ended up moving locations to, from the only cafe to say what. And it was a very popular, popular night. And basically this guy Andy Kim comes out and watches me play. And I was playing drums. And he's like, hey, and Ron's like, I think my friend Andy wants to ask you to play drums with him. And I'm like, oh, interesting. And I see Andy. And, you know, Andy has a very, um,

he is a stoic look to him. He's got hair that is immovable. It's almost like a vampire. Like if he cuts it, it just grows back the same way. I'm convinced. And he's this beautiful, you know,

darker skin man. He's Lebanese. He's handsome. And what a beautiful tomber to his voice. And again, like talking to him, it's like, almost like a father figure in many ways.

Yeah, he's very spiritual in sage. He's changed my life. So, But what happened was he gave me a CD at the time, and this is early, or mid-2000s of his music. And the songs that he wants me to play on. And the first song comes on, and it's a newer song.

And I'm like, okay, this is not bad. This is pretty good. And then the second comes on, another newer song. And I'm like, oh, it's nice. I think it's one he's written with Ron. And it's just a beautiful track. And then the third song comes on. And it's sugar, sugar.

And I go to my friends at the time, who were with me, and I was like, this, this A-hole thinks he wrote sugar, sugar. And I literally had no idea who Andy Kim was. Wow. And then the third song, or the other- Not even rock me gently. No, and then it was like, be my baby.

And then it was like, rock me gently and all these, and I'm like, I know all of these songs, man. And I'm like, how, is this the guy? Like, I can't even tell. I don't even know. Right. Well, it turns out he's the guy. He's the guy.

And he's sold 33 million records. He was the first independent artist to sell over 8 million, or over a million albums. He sold 8 million copies of Rock Me Gently, was handed his gold record by John Lennon. I know his rundown so well because I've been playing with him longer than any other human in the world. He was the first person, when you talk about a spiritual person,

he was the first person to tell me when we would make a phone call and he'd say, hey, I love you, man. and nobody had ever told me that as a friend before. Right. And I say it very often to my friends now because I think it's very important and to be that spiritual and to be in touch, that in touch with yourself that you can share your love. And that's the best part of love, isn't it?

So... This is beautiful, man. Yeah, really, he truly changed my life in many ways. And I actually, well, I mean, I did stop, playing with him at one point for a period there. I had my own battles with alcohol and drugs, and I'm close to seven years over now. Good for you.

And three years off of cigarettes now, too. Okay. Oh, yeah, and I beat diabetes. What have I got to do for you, man? What if I got to do over here? No, it's a... No, I'm happy to hear all of this. Cheers, man.

We've all got to do what we've got to do for ourselves. And it sounds like Andy deserves some credit here, though. He really has been a rock in my life, even in those times. You rock you gently. Well, yeah, even when we weren't playing together. I was a musical director for like 15 years. So you were Andy Kim's musical director.

You didn't just play drums. No, and then I moved from drums to acoustic guitar and singing. That position's now held by Bill Bell, is a dear friend. And now I'm back on drums again, which I love, I love playing drums with these songs. Because that's what I started playing with him. And, but I get, I get to,

when we do the Andy Kim Christmas shows, I get to move around. on instruments. So that's how I got to meet a lot of the people. Okay, we're going to do a list. I got a list here. We're going to run down a list of people. And I always love finding out who's on the bill this year for the Andy Kim Christmas special. On this

note quickly, because I do record every quarter with the jitters front man, Blair Packham. I'm a down him, down him and pack him. We're buddies. Okay, well, good. I figured, because Bova Conti came over because he's friends with Blair. And I think maybe Ron Sex, I feel

like there's a lot of connections here. We all love the Blairiola of rock and rolla. But he takes some credit for like the origin of the Andy Kim Christmas. So this might predate you. You know what? No. And I will, I will, I do not deny that. He's, I was, I've done, I was there since the very first one.

Okay. Well, then you can speak to Blair's role in the origin. And he played on it. And he was started playing with Andy when nobody was really playing with Andy. And he was his guitar player. He'd back him up. And I know there's still very dear friends from. what I understand.

Good. Yeah, Blair, and I played with his wife at the time, Arlene Bishop. Yes. And so I've, you know, it's a funny,

if you want a small, if you want a small world, become a Canadian musician. And if you stick around for long enough, you might play with all of them. Oh my God, so we got to get to this list here, but I just think that's,

being, you know, musical director for Andy Kim and playing drums and moving on the guitar and all these things of Andy Kim, does that get you on the late show with David Letterman?

It did. Okay, but that's like a t-shirt I would get made up. Like I played the late show of the movie. But I introduced Andy to a friend of mine named Kevin Drew from Broken Social Scene. Of course. So, you know, and around the time of Grindig, I had another band with my girlfriend at the time who was Amy Milan from the band. Stars. Who's being in this basement?

Oh, no way. That's great. So. Oh, okay. And also, that comes back. I just saw the concert at RBC Ampley. Yeah, I wanted to be there. Well, I was there, but that was,

so it all ties together because that, the opening band was stars, Amy's being in the basement, as we say. And then, of course, then it was broken social scene. That's Kevin Drew. You're going to get to this story. But then it was the closing band was Metric.

And of course, I've had a grievance with Emily Haynes from Metrick because of some spin job she was doing for an American publication, which really made it out that Metric was a New York band. And I'm like, wait a minute. Was she not best friends with, Amy Milan at the Tobacco School of the Arts?

They sure were, yeah. So, come on. Like, I mean, that's a Toronto band. Yes, they go to New York and things happen and then they come back. But, but please don't reinvent metric as a New York band. Jimmy went to Juilliard, right? Like, Jimmy, yeah. So I even had a side thing with, like, Jimmy would come and play with us at the Dakota

as well all the time. And Emily is, you know, Emily's a sweetheart. I've known her for a long time. And, but we, the drummer and the bass player, yes. they're American. And, I mean, his, the drummer's last name is Scott Key. Like, the guy, like the,

Oh, Francis Scott Key. Yeah, who wrote the national anthem. Something about bombs bursting in here. I don't, I don't salute that. So, yeah, like they're, they're, and they used to take my money, man, those guys. We would gamble after hours at the Dakota. I can tell these stories now because the place is closed down,

but we would gamble after hours playing dice. And he would always beat me. And these are the guys, they have way more, funny than I did. But anyways. But you dated Amy Millen, which is... I did. Well, when we were very young, yes. Sure, but still. And we had a band together called 16 tons with Kevin Komatsu, who was also in Grindig, and my friend Darcy Yates, who's now in Bahamas. Yeah, so it's... Keep this going, man. So where were we? We're going to get to a Kevin Drew story. Well, so Kevin Drew and I, you know, we became friends, like, before, he had a

band called Casey Accidental before Broken Social Scene and Amy had the CD and I loved it I was like this is my favorite and it was him and Charles Spirin and with Justin Perroff on drums too I believe and just a great little indie project before it became

broken social scene and so we I always told him how much I really loved that project and the early stuff so he he did a like a kind of a reunion thing a while after and it was myself and Charles and you put me on drums

and Jimmy from Metrick and Dave from the Stills who's now works with Beyonce which is kind of nice but yeah it's what a small role so and then I was like I introduced Kevin to my friend Andy Kim because I'm like you guys got to know each other

he's got a record label called Arts and Crafts you know maybe something could happen here Kevin heavily connected and just a really great, dear friend, they hit it off like gangbusters, and they decided, let's make a record for Andy Kim and put it out on arts and crafts,

which I got to play on. I played guitar and drums on it. By any chance, does this include a Ed Robertson, Bear Naked Ladies' collaboration, or is that a different project? No, that's a different project, but that song is called, I forgot to mention, and that is a great song.

I agree. Ed's a great songwriter in his own right. Have you ever flown with it? him. Is he ever piloted in a plane? I'm so curious about that, but we might be, I might be playing with Tyler coming up, possibly with Andy Stetansky.

There's a pause. There's a rumor. There's a rumor. Okay. Well, if that's happening, I want to be there because, uh, unlike Ed, who is yet to visit the basement, one day maybe, but Tyler Stewart's been down here for like an epic because he was driving around Super Dave Osborne and aging corner. That's the best story,

man. I watched the movie. Watch the movie. Great Bob. It's fantastic and he's in it. Okay. Well, that's on my list of things to do. Because I think the world of this guy, this guy just gets it, Tyler Stewart, and that's cool. You're doing that. Okay.

So, okay, I can't remember where we're at with the Andy Kim thing, but. So, Kevin Drew, I introduced them. The album comes out on arts and crafts. And then Kevin, I toured with Kevin with his solo band on a record he did called Darling's, which is a great, great album. And we toured with a band called Modest Mouse, which. He's been through some stuff lately, but whatever. They're a great band.

I agree. Now, this is before the weird old guy joined in. But anyways, we had a great tour with them, but he did, played on Letterman, and my goal in my life almost pretty much, when I left home at 14, we used to watch on a little black and white TV set. We would watch Letterman every night. Because it was the only show we could get.

I was on Global, and it was the only show that we could get. and I saw the pixies on it when they played Tromplomond and it changed my life and I said I want to do that and it's what I want to do one day and in the last so Kevin played on the show

for his solo record but Justin had to play drums because it was something with his work visa broken social scene connection all this stuff so I didn't get to do the gig broke my heart Kevin promised me as a friend he goes Derek I'm going to get you on that show and I'm like yeah sure right

because the show's ending. All of a sudden, Letterman's ending. And I'm like, I'm never going to get to play on Letterman. That's breaking my heart. In the last two weeks of the show, he makes a connection with Hal Wilner, who's now passed away, who also did book for Saturday Night Live

and all that. He did night music. Right. Guy's a genius. He, um, Kevin was friends with him and he got us in in the last two weeks of the show. So I got to play on Letterman with Andy and, Kevin Drew.

And I'm pretty sure they thought I was Kevin Drew because I am in every shot. I was supposed to be on drums because I played drums on the record. And Kev's like, you got to play guitar with Andy. That's how you guys play. You know, that's how you do it. And I'm like, well, and I'm like, I don't know about that, man. And he goes, no, that's the way it's got to be. So I put me on guitar.

And they kept me, my mother was so happy because I am in every single shot on Letterman. and it was like... You got in under the wire, man. That is so cool, though, that, you know, Kevin delivered like that. And it was, that was one of his things. He didn't have to do that, man. And I'd love him just to say.

You know, I want to me, I want to meet this guy. Because I'm a, I've had Brendan Canning over, but Kevin Drew's like, eluded me. I need to get this man on Toronto. Mike. Kevin and Rachel, his bow, um, they are engaged. I think I can say that legally.

Um, and she's a wonderful talent as well. She's been playing percussion with broken social scenes. as well, but she's got a fantastic band of her own. She's a great drummer. And, um, what's the name of that band? I'm trying to think it's like the guiding light, no, there's something, uh, the something light, it's going to kill me. It'll come to you later.

It's going to come to. Yeah. But, um, Rachel's the best. And, you know, we're all still, um, uh, we're all, you know, we still stay in touch. And you are the Kevin Bacon of Canadian. It's one of those things where, you know, Kevin's Kevin Drew is a rare guy

in the in the scene of of music. He's done so many things for so many others that he doesn't have to do and he shines a light on everyone else other than himself

and that therein is why he is so popular because we all love him and he's he's got a formidable talent that is truly his own and I got to make records with him with the beauties and Syrian Ryder and I really, I'm honored to have a friend like that.

Okay, so just maybe a word or two about the beauties and then a word or two about seeing a rider and then I'll just run down a list, yeah. Sure. Well, the beauties were the house band at the Dakota Tavern for 11 years. Right. I, through the beauties,

I mean, that, again, led to playing with many more other people, so it wasn't just the Andy Kim connections. Those Christmas shows were great, but through the beauty, that I got to play, you know, like I started playing with Melissa McClellan from, and Luke Ducet from Whitehorse. Luke's been over. Yeah. So, I mean, there's another great guy and he made me the house drummer in his guitar festivals that he had. So I got to play with, you know, Elvis Presley's guitar player. James Burton. When you get to play with James Burton, you get to spend a whole day with

James Burton, it's a life-changing thing. And then I got to play with, again, Albert Lee, who's another one of my favorite guitar players and Brent Mason and Nels Klein from Wilco who's my favorite guitar player in the world and I even got him he even played on one of my songs so by way later as we rap I'm going to play some some of your more recent music so we are going to hear more from you yeah well thank you but you know it's it's one of those things because I put down making music for a long time my own music because of, you know, having a bit of a bad taste in my mouth from working with different people and being a front person and doing it. But very recently, I watched the Martin Short documentary.

I watched it. It's great. Yeah. And it kind of blew my mind. Like, I got to meet Catherine O'Hara and I know her sister. And it was very hard to, you know, losing Catherine for all of us as Canadians. It's like, well, not her. she's one of the good ones.

She's not supposed to leave. Right. But the Martin Short documentary was like, when he's like, just put your stuff out there. He's like, kill your babies, I think he says. And I'm like, I say kill your darlings, you know, like it's. So I decided like about a couple months ago that I'm just going to record a song a day, pretty much, and I live in a recording studio.

So let's put it up. put it out, just put it up as fast as I can. And I put up at least an album's worth of stuff so far and I'm still got more coming. Well, you know what? Then I'm going to play some now. So we'll, after we hear some of you in this music, I pulled a couple to try.

I listened to a bunch of it and I pulled a couple. So you have no idea what I'm going to play. But then we'll do the whole, I have a list of names I want to ask you about. Okay, that'll be fun here. But let's listen to some Derek Downham. And with a kiss that was burned to my. A couple of new year name

Precision like sunshine Dancing on a window A couple of quick observations, Derek. How do you say that word observations? One is that your voice has changed since Grindig But it works for you. Well, and here's the thing is that I mean, yeah, I've aged about 25 years.

But, you know, I'm not like a handicam. Like my voice doesn't... Oh, he's a freak of nature, Andy Kim. But I love the tambour. of your voice, but also, with my other observation, this song is catchy as hell. Like, this is a, I dare I call this, like,

pop song, like I feel like this should be played on top 40 radio. Well, it has, thankfully, gotten some, a little bit of airplay and whatnot right now, just because I started putting it out independently and not even worrying about promotion and that kind

of thing, and just to get it out, just to do it as a sort of a test and to blow apart my own procrastination of not putting out music for 25 years or whatever. And I keep my expectations low, but thankfully, you know, there's been like XM plays and Eric Alper got a hold of it and did a thing and then Kevin Drew's putting it on his show and people keep telling me about this song and people keep reaching out to me about it. And I'm honored. I'm honored. And now you're hearing it on Toronto.

So that's full circle from Albert to Drew to Toronto Mike here. Okay. And what is praying about? Praying is a lot of it is about a person I care very deeply about. But will remain nameless. But I mean, a lot of it is, you know, when you care for people and you see that they're going through a lot of trouble and you can't do anything for them physically to help them out of the scenario that they're in, what else you're.

you're supposed to do. So that's exactly where the song came from. It's not that I'm a majorly religious person or anything, but I do, you know, I do believe in God and I do believe in my own God and I believe in higher spirit and I believe in positivity and putting

things like that out to the universe and it should come back to you. And I see now on your water bottle what you just got during that song that Cardinal's on there. I've got in my bag is branded with the Cardinal logo from my studio and there's a bunch of things. Yeah, I kind of let it follow

me around. Sure. And the birds show up all the time, which is interesting. That's beautiful. Whatever brings you peace, right? It's all about peace and love. Do you want to hear one more song from Derek Downham before we name drop? I love hearing songs

by myself. Well, we'll name drop because you know what else is going to be dropping soon, you know, falling leaves. Oh, wow. I hope to be dead But that's okay You ran away Another rent free yesterday

All you leave is all Cry on your sleeve Tear is mad I dig it, Darren I dig it So this one, this song is was written like the day after

Catherine O'Hara died and it was so you know yeah it's and I've always been I mean I think I'm at that point in my life too with you know losing both of my parents and losing my friends and losing different things it's like

how do we move forward and how do we cope and hopefully we learn these mechanisms to to recognize that we we honor our loved and lost by leading our greatest lives. And that's where, that's the headspace I try to live in now. So music for me is very much therapy for what I'm doing.

And hopefully it reaches other people and I know that this is, this one of the more cryy songs, as I call them. I write the cryy ones, but, hey, sometimes it's good to get that stuff out. Sometimes you've got a feel, man. Yeah, that's up. Yeah, I'm pro feel. Okay.

Completely out of left field here. Have you ever met Bruce Colburn? Oddly enough, Bruce Coburn, I have not met. And I love Bruce Coburn. I love his music. I love his finger-picking on guitar. He's one of my favorites. The album, Charity of Night, was such a big one for me.

But I had played with some of his... I saw him play in a band called... It was him with Black in the Rodeo Kings. So Tom's a dear friend, and Gary and Mr. Diamond there and Colin Linden. But they had a side project called Bambi and the Deer Hunters. And they played one night at the horseshoe. And it was a snowy night.

And it got like barely anybody showed up at the show. But I walked into the horseshoe. And there they are playing. And they're doing covers. And they're doing Blueberry Hill. Right. You know, and they're doing by Fats Domino. And then they're doing, Who Do You Love?

by Bo Diddley and it was so great. It was so like... That sounds very cool. It was really awesome. So I haven't met him, but I have to say, is definitely been an influence on my life and music. Well, I'm chatting with him later this week, but it's so strange because your episode, right, this is how I typically roll. As we record, we're doing it right now. And then five minutes after we take the picture by Toronto Tree, it drops in the Toronto mic feed.

So this will be out there, you know, this afternoon, September 14th. but I was told I could talk to Bruce because I've been trying to get Bruce on you know, Finkelman. I've been trying to get, I've been trying to get, Bernie Finkelstein, right? Not Finkelman.

I'm thinking of the newsroom guy, Finkelman, okay. But anyway, I've been trying to get, yeah, from True North, but I've been trying to get Bruce for a long time. And I was told I finally can get Bruce on Toronto Mike, but I can't drop the episode for a month. Like, they don't want to drop until mid-October.

So I'm going to record this week, which I'm excited about. I have a lot of questions for Bruce Colburn, and then I'm going to hold on to this episode, so I've got to make sure I'm around in mid-October to drop this thing. So anyway, if anyone has a question for Bruce, let me know, because I'm going to chat him up, I think Wednesday. But, okay, another chap, I just want to ask you about before we get to the list,

I know you've had interactions with you. Have you ever played with Hayden, Hayden Deser? That's funny, man, because no, I haven't. But he is my neighbor. And so I do run into him on occasion, and he's a real sweetheart of a guy. Really great. Dude, I've played with, you know,

many people, other people in his bands and different things like that. We've never had him on our Christmas show, but I did go see his last show, I think it was his last show at Massey, and it was so wonderful. Dream Serenade. Yeah, it wasn't Dream Serenade.

It was his own headlining show. And I know that he was doing something coming up at the View Cinema. I got tickets, so yeah, he's on Ronsies in the West End. Yeah, he's on Roncy's at the Review Cinema, and that's why I brought him up, because I'm going to see him later this month. I look forward to. Well, my friend Terry O'Flaherty does many movie presentations at the review, so, yeah, support the review.

Okay, and support Hayden. He's one of the good ones. Okay. Were you in By-Divine Wright? I have been in By-Divine Right. Yes, I was in By-Divine Right, oddly enough, just for a very short period, with Colleen, who is Ron Sexsmith's wife. she kind of got me involved with it. And it didn't work out on the whole.

I think I can't quite remember. But Jose and I are still friends. He's quite the creative phenom. He's something else. He's a different, yeah, I enjoyed his energy. It was different. Yeah, he's a trippy dude. I have no other way of putting it.

Remember Feist was in By-Divine, right? Yeah, and Brandon Canning. And I saw that lineup, actually, at the Rivoli years and years ago. Shout out to Nirvana, the band. There's a great little piece of trivia about who's the first band to play at the Air Canada Center. Oh, because it's not the tragically hip? The opening band.

Okay. Was a band called Bydevin Wright. And the guitar player was Feist, and the bass player was Brendan Canning. And I can't remember who was on drums. I'm trying to remember. But, yeah, that is a little piece of... No, I love that because I think I saw a show later that year,

I think by Divine Wright was opening for the hip. Maybe like the new, maybe it was New Year's Eve 1999, I want to say. There was a whole bunch of like great bands on that bill. But okay, let us, because speaking of the hip,

a name's going to drop soon on my list here. Okay, speaking of the tragically hip, and it's not Paul Languilwell. We've already covered him. But Don Felder of the Eagles. What's your connection to Don Felder? So I played with Don Felder at, I was the musical director one year for the Walk of Fame Canada.

And there was supposed to be an artist. There was several artists there. I was playing with Corey Hart, who was way too good looking for any, and his family. Just a little more time is on. I gotta tell you, Mike, his family is so beautiful. His daughters and his wife walked into the room,

and it was like staring into the sun. It's like how do genetics do this and create these things. And they're such beautiful people. So anyways, I got to play. Cory Hart. That's a big one. I got to play Never Surrender with Corey Hart. And that's the song I just broke into.

Of all the songs, right? So playing with him and several different people are on the gig. But I basically hired our Andy Kim band as the backup band for everybody. Amazing. But Brent Kissel was supposed to play. on it and he canceled. And the guy, so we're holding the show at Casaloma. And the owner of Casaloma goes, oh, you guys need somebody?

I'm like, I'm buddies with Don Felder for me. And he goes, you want me to call Don and see if he'll do it? And I'm like, was playing in town at Casino-Rama or something like very nearby. And I'm like, how are we going to, what? Like, how does that even happen? And I'm like, okay, yeah, sure. Ask Don if he'll come. the guy who wrote Hotel California.

And so, and I'm like, well, maybe we should just learn it, just to have it, just be ready. Right. And sure enough,

he shows up. And we played Hotel California, we played Take It Easy, and then we did Hotel California. Wow. And there is some little bit of video footage of it. And it was one of my favorite moments in life because I, the night,

if you'll remember the night of the blackout in Toronto, 2003. Yeah, I remember. I was living in. I had a toddler. and I remember we couldn't keep the milk cold. I remember this very well. Yeah, that's amazing.

So I was in Cabbage Town, and I was living above the Jetfield Coffee Shop. Behind me is a row of houses. And in those row of houses lived a young burgeoning rock star named Averal Levine. And Aver Levine was living there, and her boyfriend at the time was the guy from Sun 41, Derek, another Derek. So the blackout happens, and we're all hanging out, and Johnny Jett feels like, I got like 10 cases of, you know, beer in the basement, we'll just buy all the ice from the corner store,

and we'll, you know, we'll have a big party in the backyard. So we have a party and overcomes Averill and the sum 41 guys. Derek? Yeah. And I'm playing guitar, oddly enough, with Amy Milan in the back. And we're, and it's, It's so weird because all the lights are out, everything's dark. And then Averill asks me, she's like, oh, you guys sound great. She goes, do you know Hotel California?

Like, as a child would ask a musician who's been playing for a while. And I'm like, Averill, if I don't have Joe Wals to my left and I don't have this, John Felder to my right, I'm not playing Hotel California ever. So I had a moratorium on that song from the time I can remember. Oh, that's funny. Careful what you say. Yeah. Because one day you might actually have to play this song with the guy who wrote it,

and I'm totally fine with that. So it's an interesting how that all kind of came back. Here's on the ceiling, pink champagne on ice. Okay, speaking of legends, here's a Canadian, we'll talk about Alex Lifeson from Rush. Oh, yes. You, what did you do of Alex? I've played with him about, I think, four or five times now. and he really loves Andy Kim

and he's just a big fan of the music so he would sit in with us when we'd play Shoot him Up Baby one of the first Christmas shows we did I think it was the second one and so I always found it interesting because again it's like when I was a kid

I wasn't such a huge rush fan but as a teenager I had a band called Play at Hash with some friends about his stoner rock band. And we spent a summer learning how to play Tom Sawyer, like really getting it down as a three piece. And so then one day I find myself playing with Alex Lifeson,

and I have to keep touching him just to make sure he was real. And I'll never forget the first time playing with him because I walked over to his amp and I'm like, oh, I've got to check out his settings and see what he's got. And so he's got the trebles on about, you know, seven and the mids are on about seven, eight kind of thing. And then the bass is on zero. And I go, hey, what's that all about?

And he goes, oh, that's what Getty plays. See, he's so respectful of Getty Lee's bass playing that he won't even put bass on his amp, just to separate it. And I'm like, well, that's really smart. Wow. That's actually really clever. And it's something I would have never thought of. And it got me more into the idea of EQ.

But that's like over 20 years ago. So I played with him last, I think it was last Christmas with Broken Social Scene. We both played our high-strung acoustic guitars, and we played anthems for a 17-year-old girl together. And we also played the song we did on Letterman with Andy Kim called Sister Okay. And I mean, Alex is just one of the, one of the nicest people you ever meet of his caliber. Sometimes they say that you don't meet your hip. heroes, but he's one you should meet.

He's a very fun guy. This summer when I was at that broken social scene gig at the amp, one of the highlights was Emily coming out for anthem for a 17 year old. It was just beautiful song. I remember when that album first came out, and

it was just such a standout track that I got to play Loverspit with them, with Feist and Emily doing Lover Spit when we were playing at Echo Beach one time. Oh, and I'm wearing the Martha and the Muffin shirt, Echo Beach. I love that. Love that.

Coincidence. Love that. Okay. Shout out to Martha and Muffins. I immediately was blown away by your Martha and the Muffin shirt. But they weren't happy. I will say when Martha and Mark were in this basement, they were not happy with the fact RBC, I believe, I'm picking on the right bank.

Name that place Echo Beach and no compensation to the songwriter of Echo Beach. A big bank just took the name. Well, it's not like banks have a lot of money. You know, to just throw it. time. And now, you know, with AI taking over, I feel like the banks are... Is this a new thing? I haven't heard anything about it.

I feel like the very near future for the big banks in Canada is all AI and then like a couple of human beings pressing the button or whatever. You know, keeping him again. Okay. So let me drop another big name on you. The late great Jeff Healy. Oh, Jeff Healy. What a great guy.

So his son's name is Derek. I always made the joke that he named his kid after me. Why not? But when I was about, like, I was in my teens and I started coming up to Toronto, it was a great local band called Lilith that were friends of mine with my friend Lonnie Knapp and Colin Crawford and Roy Daly and Gene O'Brien, who's a great singer who you should maybe have on your show sometime. She's a wonderful singer-songwriter.

And she's still pumping out records. and she works a lot with Ian Blurton. Love Ian. There's another, you know, great little connection. Yeah. And one of the guys who really made me want to become a producer. So Gene had a band called Lilith, and they were managed by Jeff Healy,

or the drummer from the Jeff Healy band, Tom Stevens. The late one. Yes, he's passed on as well now. He's been in the basement. Oh, really? No way. Crazy. anyways his um we we um one of my first tours with a band was with them and uh i really kind of learned

to cut my teeth playing with them and doing some studio things here and there and but um it was um jeff and uh jeff heard me busking on the street one day and came over and was like who are you and i was like oh hey man i'm der him this and grindig had just kind of come out with our We just started doing things, and I was still busking. I was broke, man. So he was like, hey, I just started a club, and I have a special guest night on Thursday nights. Would you be interested in being one of my special guests? And I'm like, I'm like 19 or 20 or something.

And I'm like, are you kidding me, man? And I'm like, yeah, of course. So I ended up playing at his club, like a few times. and he I'll never forget because he's like you only have to come up for the one set like we'll have the special guest set and I'm like no no no I will be up for all three sets I will be playing with you for three sets because you are one of my heroes I used to practice I learned how to play angel eyes like him upside down like with the way he would play on his lap yeah yeah and so we had a wonderful time and we have a we had a very similar speaking voice so he would

he would constantly be like, he's like, my wife thinks we sound like, or something like that. And he didn't, at one time, he didn't know that I played drums as well. So one time I played with him at his club with, I think I was with Andy and maybe Greg Godavitz or somebody, or a few different people. Yeah, and I was on drums. And then Jeff recognized my voice from behind the kid.

And he's like, are you on drums? and I was like, yeah, and I'm like, how long have you been there for, man? It was like half an hour I'd been playing with him and he had no idea. Oh, that's funny. And so we always had this little joke that I was like, I was just going to sneak around and show up on different instruments around them. And I don't think you could find, like, for me, he was kind of the first person to really champion me as a larger musician that I was gobsmacked by.

and there is I truly consider him one of the most unique guitar players of all time and I mean I know everybody else who ever sees him does but there's not many people who could hand Stevie Ray Vaughn their ass and and and I don't say that lightly and not disrespectfully either to Stevie Rayvon obviously but wow like it's funny speaking of Stevie Rayvon

in my calendar for I think next week is a gentleman, Colin James, who is heavily, you know, mentored by... Okay, well, he's in town next week. So, and, okay, so I just, I don't know if this is a fun fact, because sadly we lost Jeff Healy far too soon, but he is buried at Park Lawn Cemetery, which is in this pretty close to where we are right now,

and I will also point out buried in that same cemetery, is Harold Ballard. So there you go. Wow. Now you know the rest is right. Okay. A moment, quick hits here. Serena Ryder, you mentioned the name earlier.

I actually got, I had the pleasure of meeting Serena Ryder earlier in the summer. And then I know she's dear friends of Tom Wilson. I've been trying to get Tom Wilson to get Serena Ryder on Toronto Mike because Tom has put many a great person on Toronto Mike. But what capacity did you play with Serena Ryder?

I toured with Serena Ryder. I wrote songs with Serena Ryder. Ryder. One of the, the reason why I'm able to actually live alone in this expensive city is because of a song that I wrote with Serena Ryder on her big record. It's called The Circle of the Sun is the name of the song. And it was like a bonus track, but it ended up getting placed on a show called Hawaii 50.

And I've never seen the show Hawaii 50, but I will say this, it's my favorite show of all time. Good for you, man. You got paid. Yeah, well, you know, and it wasn't, you know, it was, and the nice part, too, was that I remember when she played it, she played it live on TV during the Pan Am games. And she takes a big drum solo in it. And I'm like watching the seconds go by going, yeah, baby, take a longer solo on this one. And it's so, yeah, Serena and I have written, we've wrote quite a few songs together, actually some that have never made it on records, but might someday.

and some that I'm really proud of. Like, you know, her and I have a little bit of a similar past and a few different things, but I haven't talked to Serena in a while, but I do love her dearly. And we made a record with the beauties called Serena Ryder and the Beauties. And you can find that online, I'm sure, and it was pressed on vinyl as well.

If you can find those, I don't even have a copy of it. All right, three more names here. Derek, this has been awesome, man. And, you know, at the end, if I missed anything big, you think I should have prompted for it. You can just spill it out. We can still capture it.

They're all big for me. They're all gold record moments for me. Lights. Lights, interesting. So, yeah, like, not that we've played together a lot or anything, but she did one of the first day and it came Christmas shows. And she did a few of them, I believe. And, yeah, she also did one.

where she collaborated with the Arkells on it, which was pretty neat. Cool. But she is so nice. Like, she's one of the sweetest. And she, one of my favorite years,

actually, was when we, she did one, we did one of her songs, and then we did, uh, in the air tonight by, uh,

Phil Collins. Wow. And she destroys that tune. And we had Morgan Doctor on drums and who had the greatest time playing that film. man. We were all like, go for it, Morgan.

Well, that's the best one in the world maybe. Like that's just, you just wait for that. That's amazing. It's, I mean, it's,

is there really a greater drum fill in the world? I don't know. The anticipation is what makes it so great. Oh yeah, I know 100% and many a person on their dashboard has done that one.

Okay. FOTM Julian Taylor. Oh, well, Julian, um, it's really funny because just on the way over here, he's got a new single

called Drive. and I play on it. And I've, I met Julian Taylor when he was in a band called Staggered Crossing and Grindig. And out on the 401. Don't it make you nervous.

So we both had songs on like NHL like stuff. So we actually toured together, Grindig and Staggered Crossing. And I met him when I was in 16 tons with Amy Malam. And, but we became friends through Grindig and then he's you know years later we lost touch for a little while there but we've gotten

much closer over the past few years and he put me on his album the ridge i made with him and uh the ridge and beyond the reservoir and his newest album so um and he's also high school friends with a guy just produced named freeman dray i don't know if you know freeman i know the name yeah so we just finished the new freeman dray record and julian sings on a couple of songs. And I was an honor to have them over at the Cardinal at the studio. Right. And then, but.

Yeah, it's worth noting your studio is called Studio Cardinal Toronto. Yeah. There is a website going up soon. I've been absolutely slow on that. But the, it's just, you know, it's my house. It's the, but it's, I love it because it's, it's, it's relaxed. It's nice. It's clean.

It's, it's just a sweet little place to make music. and I sleep and when I wake up, I make music. So I'm one of those rare people that's able to do it for their life. And, you know, it's like anything, it's got its ups and downs. But we've, I'm very fortunate that I've been able to live a life in music. Julian's been a big part of that. And I got to play with him at Massey last year. And he's, he deserves so much, man.

There's a guy that's really put in the work. and he's only gotten better. His voice is one of my favorite singing voices ever. And you can take that to the bank. Two more names. I think I said, I think I lied to you earlier. Two more names and then, you know, free for all.

But we dropped this name already, but I need to know specifics. What are you doing with FOTM Andy Stochansky? So I just finished his new record. I just produced a record for him. There's a... He's a dear friend of Blair Packham's. Yeah, yeah, they're old friend.

I'm actually playing with him next Wednesday. Is it this Wednesday? At the 16th of September at the Sellers and New Old Bookstore. There's this great little bookstore that does these awesome live shows. I believe Gary Topp books there. And so I...

Yeah, I worked on... this record with Andy and I met Andy at the very first Andy Kim Christmas show. Of course. Yes. And so Andy's in Andy's. But he's since become a very dear friend. He saw me in a play last year with Kurt Swinghammer and their old friends. Yeah, that's Sam the Record Man is at Kurt Swingham.

That sure is. Yeah. I love that. What an artist, eh? Unbelievable. Multifaceted guy. Absolutely. And one of the sweetest, him and Lori, just wonderful people.

You know, Lori, she's been over here. but I always see at Blair Packham house parties. That sounds about right. And then she always busts my chops, and I always love it. So there you go, Lori Cullen. Okay. Okay. Last name.

Okay. It's a big one for me personally. Gore Downey. Yeah, Gord. It's funny because, so when I was in Grindig, he actually was a Grindig fan. And I was like, and I asked him when I was, you know, working with like at the hip studio.

at the bathhouse. I was like, why, when you ever get us to open up? He's like, you guys are too crazy. You guys had too much energy. He's like, we'd have to have fans that were a little more adult and a little more subdued, you know, and it was like, okay. Because I would jump in the audience. It was always Sam Roberts, as I remember. Well, he had those guys too, in the truth, or no, not the truth, but the, um, uh, real statics.

Yeah, real statics for sure. And, you know, but they're not like a super high energy band by any means, but they're a great band. Like, don't get me wrong. But even, I think he's just making excuses. but he loved my songs and he told me this and I was like I was really honored. So when after Lou Reed died that night when we did that Lou Reed tribute, Gordon and I were at the Soho House and he, Gordon and I just kept talking. And for some reason, and I was honored that, you know, he wanted to just hang out with me

because we talked about a lot of things. And I don't want to speak at a school and no disrespect, but we talked a lot about sobriety and different things as well. And we've all got our, many people have struggles with it and different stuff. But he decided that, you know, he was,

like I started working on music under a project called arrows that never really came out, but certain people, you know, have access to some of the songs and we send people my songs for free. Anyways, Gord was like,

well, would you ever want to write a song with me? And I was like, Well, yeah, sure. Of course, because I don't write with people on postage stamps all the time, although it's kind of funny now that I'm playing. So I play every other Sunday at the Rivley with Basil from Blue Rodeo in an old school country band called The Empty Glasses. You should come because it's fun.

But now I've been doing music with two people on postage stamps, three people on posted stamps. So the nice part about Gord was that, you know, like he was so open to it. So we went over to my friend Jeff's place and we started writing. We spent three days writing a song together, which is called The Greatest Divide, which I ended up finishing during pandemic after he had passed. Now, sadly, Gord, when we were writing, he kept telling me that his son was sick and had some brain problems and was having some issues.

and I was like, oh, yeah. So he's like, I got to leave and I got to do this thing. But in retrospect, obviously, he was talking about himself. And he was very sick. And he kept telling me, he wrote me, my last really communication with him on email. He said, you know, I think I ripped off some of my own lyrics on the song. And I don't know. And I'm like, what do you mean you ripped off some of your own lyrics?

How do you even do that? And I'm like, even if you do, they're yours. You know, so it was kind of heartbreaking for me. And then we ran into each other at, because we were both playing together at Field Trip at Fort York. And he's like, hey, man, is everything okay? And I'm like, yeah, well, it was just really weird that all of a sudden, we spent three days writing together.

And then, you know, you tell me you think you ripped off yourself from another song. I'm like, I checked all the other songs. You're fine. He's like, okay, well, then use it, then do it. and then it was like the next week or so that he came out publicly that he had the cancer and I have a very dear friend who's dealing with the same condition right now and it's uh it was it was very hard I still haven't watched the last hip performance I know it's like the most Canadian thing of all time but um I lost a friend and uh and it was a

powerful moment in my life and an honor to get to write with Gord Downey because Kevin Drew and I talked about it. There weren't many people. He started writing with a few people at the end of his life. And myself included Dallas from City in Color. There's another guy that I didn't know of that he wrote with as well. And like the Sadie's guys. And these are great. Dallas was another guy. Dallas good. Yeah, Dallas. I've named my base after him. I was supposed to make a record with him with his cousin at some point. But very, yeah, sorry, this is going back to the falling leaves thing. No, that's another tragic.

He was only 50 years old when Dallas Good passed away. Yeah, and, you know, now that I'm that age, you know, I'm very cautious of my heart and my health. And this is what led me to, you know, getting sober and a few different things like that. And I quit smoking three years ago. I had to quit coffee to do it, which is so weird. Oh, because you, but your mind put them together? Like if you're having a coffee, you want a cigarette?

I could see that. That's, you know, good on you for all these things. And, again, you know, a great loss for the entire country, really, Gord Downey, but you knew him personally. That hits you on a different level. And so my sincere condolences. You know, and he was a big Lou Reeve fan as well. Obviously, he did Coney Island Baby that night.

but we it was so nice because it prompted me to start writing with other people and I wrote them you know with with Ron

and I was supposed to do some writing with Chantelle Kraviosik but that hasn't happened yet but maybe at some point okay because you mentioned Navril Levine at that party and I was thinking

oh she wrote with Chantelle there's a whole thing there right but yeah but she was at part of that show as well so there was a plan to get together

but it hasn't happened yet. But who knows? But I have to say, I'm, Gord, I mean, we were all lucky to have them as long as we did. And my parents,

my mother bought me day for night on CD when I was a kid. And if I had known that I was going to be writing with the guy, I mean, what do you say about that?

What do you say about that? It's a Mark Howard production. That's amazing. That's amazing. And that's the album he was promoting on Saturday. Night Live.

Amazing. Derek, you're amazing. I got to say, you hit it out of the park and your Toronto mic debut. Do you consider yourself an indie cult icon? Yes.

Own it, man. Is that the short answer? Just lean in. I've done pretty good. That's the T-shirt I'd get made up. Indie cult icon. I got to say, I'm just honored to be part of it

and to be here doing what I love and how many people, get the chance and I'm honored. Well, you're just getting warmed up over here. By the way, have you heard the Trans-Canada Highwayman cover of Rock Me Gently? I'd love to hear it. Yeah, it's on vinyl. It's on YouTube right now.

I saw it at the horseshoe. Those guys are great, and they do a great version of Rock Me Gently. All of those guys are fantastic. Also, mind blow on our way out. So we talked about Port Hope because, of course, Wheels' dad lived in Port Hope, and then Wheels had to go to Port Hope to see his dad. And was it Mike and the Drifters? Right, Mike and the Drifters.

Well, the mind blow, of course, and you must know this as a degrassi man, but the real name of wheels, Derek. Yeah, yeah. It's not lost on me, man. It's not lost on me. Parts of my mind are all over the walls here because they're blowing here.

Okay, dude. And this is lowest of the low playing behind it. Okay, so this is a cover of lowest of lowest of low. So it's funny, we talk about the only, which is off of Shakespeare My Butt, 1991's the most excellent album from Lois the Low. And this song, Rosie and Gray, I would always close with Rosie and Gray from Shakespeare, my butt.

But the algorithms, specifically Spotify and YouTube, which is owned by Google, I will call them out for basically, even though Ron loved the fact that I used the song, they would remove my content for using Rosie and Gray. So what I did is I had Rob Pruse, the aforementioned keyboardist for spoons. Yeah. He's amazing. So this is him. This is Rob Pruse covering Rosie Gray. It sounds like him doing it.

I love it. It's so synthy. It's great. There you go, man. That's how it all comes together here. Okay, we're going to take a photo by Toronto Tree. I'm going to get your lasagna and get you out of here. But thanks for making the trek here, buddy.

A real pleasure, man. My pleasure. And that brings us to the end of our night. 1,971 show, 1971. Go to Torontomike.com. your Toronto Mike needs and much love to all who made this possible. That is Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Nick Aienes, Recycle My Electronics.C.A.,

and Ridley Funeral Home. We had a great debate talking about Rush earlier in Alex Lifeson, but we had, oh, by the way, I'm going to see a TIF, which is happening now. I'm going to see the Neal Peart documentary. Check out the Neal Peer documentary. But the great debate is Hussein Subdivisions in the song Subdivisions. Those who know, no.

And that's how that got in there. Oh, there's some Degrassi. That's wheels and the zip remedy. Derek, you're in the right place, brother. See you all Wednesday. When I'm talking to Bruce Colburn, but you can't hear that Wednesday. I got to hold on to it.

But we've got lots of great content coming up. See you all then.