Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Diana Swain: Toronto Mike'd #303

Episode Date: January 23, 2018

Mike chats with CBC News' Senior Investigative journalist Diana Swain about competing for Miss Canada, co-anchoring with her estranged father in Winnipeg, filling in for Peter Mansbridge on The National and her new show, The Investigators with Diana Swain.

Welcome to episode 303 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery located here in Etobicoke. Did you know that 99% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario? Great Lakes Brewery. Brewed for you, Ontario. And propertyinthesix.com. Toronto real estate done right. And

Paytm, an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot. Download the app today from paytm.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is CBC News Senior Investigative Journalist

Diana Swain. I'll be back for my city love I'm in Toronto where you wanna get a city love I'm in Toronto where you wanna get a city love I'm in Toronto where you wanna get a city love You'll never make me stay So take your weight off of me Oh, oh, oh You never make me stay So take your weight off of me I know your every move So won't you just let me be I've been here times before

But I was too blind to see That you seduce every man This time you won't seduce me Just saying that's okay Hey baby, do as you please I have the stuff that you want I am the thing that you need She look me deep in the eyes

She touching me so to stop She says there's no turning back She's got me in love Dirty Diana Welcome, Diana. Makes me sound so menacing. I like it. I couldn't get this thought out of my head. I'm like, I finally have a Diana coming on the show.

I have to open with Dirty Diana. I'm like, I just couldn't get it out of my head, so I went with it. But this is like your theme song. It should, like, play when you enter a room. It should, shouldn't it? Yeah, the room should just part. There should be, like, a parting of the seas kind of thing

while I walk down the middle. I think I'd like that. Like the Imperial March, like whenever Darth Vader walks into a room. That's yours. Thank you for doing this. It's great to see you. It's nice to be here. You know, it's an amazing day in January. It's seven

degrees right now at, you know, 11 o'clock in the morning. The drive-in was beautiful. It's a good thing I stopped the car. I could have kept going for hours. Thankfully, we have a nice day. Like this has been, in my humble winter bike riding opinion, like a terrible like last four weeks. It was awful.

And you know, it's funny. I mean, I'm a Canadian girl. I know my snow and I'm good with snow. But after about minus 10, I am just cranky. Yeah, this is good. That's when the toes go numb. Like I'm good till the toes go numb and then I don't like it anymore. But it's around there.

Now, can I ask you about CBC PR approval, like to appear on this podcast? That's a lot of P's there. I hope I didn't pop them all, but there's like, you're the fifth CBC person to come on and you're the fifth person who told me that they have to get approval. So is this just like, is this the CBC rule? Like if you want to appear on a non CBC property, like regardless of what it is, you got

to kind of clear it with some PR department. Pretty much. Yeah. And it's, you know, I think it's about trying to keep some measure of control, maybe, but also some idea of where everybody is, because there are, you know, there are a few of us out there at CBC across the country. So I think it's about trying to make sure somebody knows what everybody's doing. And it's, you know, unfortunately for Jack, the guy who tends to decide these things, I think Jack gets a lot of requests in the course of a day and is trying to filter through them. And so it can seem more arduous if you're you waiting for me to respond. And it's just because I think he's got a lot. Well, I get it. You were a faster respondent

than some others, actually, in the CBC family. So let me tell you who the first four were. So the first CBC guest I had was Matt Galloway. Yeah. And it was, well, I'll wait till I get to Jill when I explain the shirt. But so Matt Galloway came on and then Mike Wise came on.

Who's the tallest journalist you're going to run into? He's tall. Yeah, absolutely. It's funny. I had a guy from 640 on the other day. His name is Matt Gurney. And I think he's taller than Mike Wise, actually. Actually, have you ever got Neil McDonald down here?

I mean, you just want to do it outside because he's going to just brush the roof of every room you have. I just watched his brother on Comedians in Cars getting coffee yesterday night. Oh, is that right? Okay, I've got to get Neil on, but I'm afraid I'll spend the whole time just asking him about his brother, so I don't think that's cool.

Dwight Drummond has been on the show. Also tall? Tallish? I don't think so. I don't know. I'm going to disagree on that one. I think maybe because I'm 5'4", I just, you know, everybody's tall by comparison. I feel like I feel like I'm taller than Dwight Drummond. So that would disqualify Dwight from like the tall category. But Jill Deacon.

So Jill Deacon was the most recent CBC guest. And she is the person for whom I debuted this shirt. It's quite something. Yeah. Real deal. I'm going to guess there's only one of those out there. I would love to find out if there's more out there. It's from 1976.

That's actually really cool. The Montreal Olympics. Oh, wow. Seriously? Yeah. So I got it from a TVO employee, because I guess the CBC and TVO did something together with the broadcast of the 76 Olympics. So they all got these shirts, but they all hated these shirts like passionately. There was a phase there where CBC Sports was just in love with orange.

And I can't recall any time when orange was like the best color for everyone. So it's, you know, they still talk about the old orange jackets. Like the blazers. Yeah. You're right. You're right. And this is the, so this shirt, yeah, it somehow survived in this gentleman's closet. And then one day he lives near Jane and Bloor.

And he said, I bike near there all the time. And he's like, why don't you just come over and I'm going to give you this shirt. Like, I just know him from Twitter. See, no one's given me a CBC shirt. And I've been there a long time. And he's like, why don't you just come over and I'm going to give you this shirt? Like, I just know him from Twitter. See, no one's given me a CBC shirt and I've been there a long time. I'll have to see if, if my TVO friend

has any other TVO friends of these gems in the, but if you had a shirt like this, would you wear it? Would I wear it? You seem rather stylish. I think I would be forced to belt it,

perhaps, accessorize. I don't know. I mean, it's funny you should mention the Olympic stuff because I literally just got my Olympic jacket because I'm leaving for Korea next week. And I'm happy to say that our Olympic clothing this year is a flattering shade of blue. Okay, so it's not orange. It's not orange. It's not orange. Okay. I happen to have this guy queued up here because I was going to, I was going to ask you about this later, but, uh, I did not know you were going and I was going to ask, uh, that's fantastic. So when do you leave? I leave next Friday, February 2nd. Okay.

And so this is, uh, this is the Olympics where, uh, a good chunk of the live stuff is while I'm snoozing. Is this, is this while I'm sleeping? Yeah, it's 14 hours ahead of us now. So it's going to be a slight challenge to manage the jet lag. Have you noticed that a lack of buzz because the NHL players are not going? Like in your opinion, has that, well, the time zone's a big thing too, I think. Yeah, the time zone's going to factor in to what people watch and when they watch it. I thought there would be a bigger buzz about the NHLers not going, notwithstanding that my son tweeted out yesterday

that he's really bummed the NHLers aren't going. Because he said, you know what, he just realized. I think he may have, yeah. I think there was a bigger buzz about it when it was clear that they weren't going because there was that kind of brinkmanship for a little while there where everybody thought Batman would go, no, no.

Can I tell you, Brian Williams was on the show, and he said to me, I think they're bluffing. They're going to be in South Korea. He said that to me. I heard that from so many of the people I know who work in sports. They all thought it was bluff. It was posturing and stuff. And then they're like, nope, not going.

So I think it'll be a bigger deal once the hockey starts and people get a look at what the games look like, what the caliber of play is. But I think there's so much else happening that is getting people's attention that it's a bit of a balance. Well, I mean, I'm an Olympics guy. So I get all into the, I'll watch anything

if it's for an Olympic medal, like anything. It's the only time I think I watch. Yeah, well, I mean, Canadians love curling, but I'm not one of them. Like I can't watch curling. I find it really boring, but I will watch like if Canada's up for gold, I'll watch like the whole thing.

Like, so just whatever. If the darts was an Olympic sport, like whatever it is, if it's a Canadian going for gold, like I'm in front of that TV, glued to the TV. I have to admit, the first Olympics that I went to for CBC

was Beijing in 08. And of course, you know, the summer games. And I was co-hosting with Scott Russell, who's, you know, like sitting beside a sports encyclopedia, basically. And it was the first time that CBC or anyone at that point actually sent a news person, i.e. me, to sit in the sports role. And part of it was because I've always loved sports and I had sort of a bit of a knowledge myself, but it was also just in case something went down that we had a news person who could quickly react. But it also meant I had to quickly get up to speed on all these sports.

And for the love of me, I'm still not really sure how you win in sailing. But we watched it. So there's something about Olympic energy that, as you say, makes a sport that you don't necessarily know very well. And you'll get all into the sport throughout the Olympics. And then for four years, you won't think about that sport again.

That's true. I'm thinking, is it called skeet shooting? Am I getting my names mixed up? And fencing. Oh, yeah. What's not the bobsled? What's that thing? Skeleton.

Skeleton, like skeleton. That just looks like the thing that the kid you weren't supposed to play with did in the winter when I was growing up. It was like, if you do that on the snow hill, you're going to, you know, my mom would have gone on about all the ways I was going to injure myself. Don't play with that kid.

And it turns out that kid's probably going to the Olympics. That's right. But if you move your toe the wrong way, it can really throw you off track, I think. Oh, i have a question for you about about your name so there's a great story with shania actually well that's that's what i'm here to to extract these great stories so all i know is i saw diana swain's coming on diana swain's coming on in my mind i'm like diana swain i gotta start with dirty diana but i'm like, Diana Swain rhymes with Shania Twain. And what

was it like when Shania breaks? I mean, it rhymes. It's not the same name, but it's a Canadian who had mega success. And the name rhymes. It's kind of fun. It's fun to say together. I hadn't sort of put that together when she was really big. But when I

was in Winnipeg, where I worked for years, and I was at CBC, and I was the national reporter, and I got the job as the 6 o'clock anchor, the woman who was the director of our show came home for dinner and said to her family, Hey, you know, our new anchor is Diana Swain. And she said her 12-year-old son was super excited. And she thought, Oh, maybe he's just really getting into what I do at work now and kind of appreciating it. About a week or two later, they drove through town and there was a big billboard announcing me. And she said, look, and he went, what? She said, it's Diana Swain. And he said, I thought you meant Shania Twain.

So it's me and that 12-year-old. I already lost one viewer and we hadn't started. Hey, there's worse people to be compared to than Shania Twain. Oh, seriously. And she's having a bit of a comeback right now. So, yeah, so I've got your Dirty Diana. As I'm listening to Dirty Diana to introduce you, I realize it's about like Diana's going to seduce me. Like it's got some interesting context as I listened to it.

It does. It does. I mean, I prefer to think that I, you know, seducing someone intellectually into, you know, giving me answers to my questions.

And really me in the shirt, I'm here to do the seduction here. That's why. Clearly. And then I, but thankfully I didn't go with the, what's the Canadian singer song, singer songwriter, Paul Anka, Diana, which is the I'm so young and you're

so old. Okay, so, and I'm not kidding, I have another story. Okay, go for it. So my mother is born and raised in Germany and married my father, a Canadian, when they met in Germany, you know, after the Cold War, essentially in the late 50s, early 60s. Moved to Canada and I was born shortly after. And my mom wanted me to have a, as she put it, a German name. And my father at the time was very sensitive to the fact that, you know, the war wasn't that far behind people.

He wanted me to have a Canadian name. My mom didn't know any. So she listened to the radio and I am named for that song. And my sister, born three years later, Carrie Ann, named by, you know, for the Hollies song, Hey Carrie Ann. So that's great. There you go. That's great. That's fantastic. So the Paul Anka, because I'm so young and you're so old. Oh, Diana, I've been told. That's your name. That's how you get the name Diana. Yeah, that's it.

Oh, cool. That's cool. So Swain, though Swain is, oh, he's Canadian. That's right. She's German. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Cool. Did you, let me share something with the audience

and with yourself, which is that last week I was diagnosed with pneumonia. Huh. That's a scary word, right? Pneumonia. Can you spell? I'm not going to make you spell. That'll be the first test

and see how smart are in this. Okay. I already started doing that in my head going, don't get it wrong. No. I mess it up every time because there's a U in there

I'm not expecting. So I got the PN part, but then it's EU and I forget that U every single time. But so I type it out and then it's all, it's underlined

and I right click and I pick the correct spelling. Like I've said. Is this pneumonia, spelling. Like is this pneumonia catchy pneumonia? Is that why I'm sitting like six feet away at this mic? I have finished my antibiotics. So they gave me this, uh, six pills I had to take over five days and I'm done and I feel pretty good and you're safe. Don't worry. But I, last week, like, let me do some, where are we now? We're on like, this is Tuesday.

So last Tuesday, I couldn't, I would have had to cancel if you were coming over last Tuesday because I have never felt so lethargic. Like, I had no energy at all.

Yeah, I had pneumonia once and it's, it's brutal. Did you have what the commoners will call walking pneumonia?

Yeah, it's funny. I guess so. That, you know, I could make it to the fridge and back. I always look at pneumonia. There's two types. The kind where you got to go to the hospital, which is all scary. And then the kind they're like, can I ask the doc?

I'm like, do I have to shut it down? This is after I started getting a bit better and I realized it might not be the flu. And then I got the x-ray and they said it was pneumonia. Like I said, do I have to shut this down or can I keep doing stuff? And the doctor told me if I have the energy to do it, I can do it. Like so you can just do stuff. And I started doing all the regular stuff. But last Tuesday I had to shut it down.

Like I'm a high energy guy and it was tapped. Like I know because it was garbage night. And I remember thinking I can't get the garbage bin to to the front like i just like i can't do this i told my wife i told this is what you got to do and you got to get the garbage but hey i couldn't do it so uh just reporting back here that uh i won't judge you i've beat the big the big p but i did record two episodes later last week. And one of them I want to refer to is the Dave Hodge episode. So Dave Hodge came over to, we call it kicking out the jams where people come over a second time. And then we play and discuss your 10 favorite songs of all time. Okay. Dave Hodge, what a guy, big time music, passionate music guy. He said to me, I'll come over, but I can't do a top 10.

He said, I have to do a top 100. So we had this whole negotiation like where I'm like, okay. So he- How long was the podcast for 100 songs? We only played. So that was a compromise. I said, okay, you can name your top 100, but I'm only playing the top 10 because of time reasons. Like I said, we got to keep this thing under two hours. And we agreed on that. But then he had all these other demands, I want to say. Like, normally I start the song, like we did of Dirty Diana, and I let the song get to the chorus, and then I fade it down and we talk over top of it. Well, Dave would have nothing to do with that. We were not allowed to talk over any part of the song. He wanted the audience to hear the song in its entirety.

So, you know, Dave Hodge wants this, then Dave Hodge gets this. So the 10 songs, the first time I played the songs in their entirety before we discussed them. But then he had this other idea. He said he loves the opening line of a song. Like, he loves the first line because that's what grabs him or whatever. line of a song. Like he loves the first line because that's what grabs him or whatever. So he wanted to read aloud the first line of the song before I start playing it. So people at home can try to guess the song based on his reading. So what I found interesting with Dave is because, you know, Dave's been broadcasting for decades and he's very good.

I think he has a couple of those orange jackets, actually. For sure he does. I should have asked him about that. For sure he does. Until the pen flip, and then he had his last jacket. But Dave Hodge was producing my show, I realized. So this was a long negotiation we discussed before I started recording. And it's the first, so it's basically... I always sort of like that.

Yeah. We push into, you know, other people's roles all the time. But I did, I think we reached a good compromise and I think it's a fantastic episode. So anyone out there listening who wants to hear Dave Hodge list his 100 favorite songs of all time, I think that's the last episode.

So this is 303. Go find 302. I urge everyone, while you're doing that, go to patreon.com slash Toronto Mike and help crowdfund this, uh, passion project to keep it going. Give what you can. I can speak from authority that Mike Wise is a patron of this podcast.

So he is, uh, stepped up and become a patron. So no, no pressure, Diane. I don't want you to whip out the wallet right now. It's too awkward,

but patreon.com slash Toronto Mike. Do you enjoy beer? Do I enjoy beer? That's your second tough question of the day. Sometimes. It's not the first thing I would reach for, but in the summer, sure. And with some kinds of food, like I think it's weird if I see someone drinking wine while they're having wings. That just looks like someone who's confused. I'm like that with pizza. I like a cold beer with pizza. They seem to pair together somehow and it works out. Now, you don't have to drink it

until it's warm out or you could pass it on to a loved one, but there is a six-pack in front of you that you can bring home with you. I have a son who might think that's the nicest thing

I've done in ages. There you go. You're about to win some mom points. What? You're giving me beer? You're the best mom ever. That is courtesy of Great Lakes Brewery. They are an Etobicoke craft brewery.

In fact, they just recently changed that script off the top. And I think I say the word Ontario like three or four times. I love that it's an Ontario brand. I love that. And because it's super fresh, they have their date of canning on the bottom. And I haven't checked these, but typically it's within a couple of weeks of when you drink it. So the way they can do that is, of course, they just truck it to spots in Ontario.

So it's always super fresh. And it's super tasty. And they're fiercely independent. And they're really cool cats. So enjoy your Great Lakes beer. I shall. But Diana, your son's going to want to pour his beer into a pint glass. There's a pint glass for you. Look at that. Courtesy of propertyinthesix.com. Brian Gerstein is a sales representative of PSR Brokerage.

And I'm going to play for you now. I'm going to share with my son. I changed my mind. Then make him drink out of the can. You can drink out of the pint glass. Brian would prefer that anyway. I'm going to play a clip from, Brian recorded a special message for you and at the end of this,

he's got a question for you. Okay. So let's hear from Brian. Propertyinthe6.com Hi Diana, Brian Gerstein here, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Mic. Call or text me at 416-873-0292

and I will even throw in one of my awesome new pint glasses if we meet in person. All my listings come with a free home inspection, floor plan, photo and video shoot, and lots of marketing. I have a four-bedroom listing in Maple at the end of a cul-de-sac hitting the market tomorrow, asking $1.25 million if you are interested. I cover the whole GTA, as you see, not just the six. Diana, you wrote a touching piece on being a hockey mom five years ago, And I'm wondering, as your son was heading to university at the time, did he go on to play in men's beer leagues?

And is he still playing? Speaking of your beer-swilling son. I like this question, too, because I've read this article as well. Because I am a house league dad. My son's 16. But your sentiments struck a chord with me like my son's 16 but uh i your sentiments struck a chord with me because like i gotta he's got a game tonight so i'll be at george bell arena tonight to watch him play where i every week during every winter for 10 years now i've been

watching that boy play house league and he's 16 now and my thought is like one day like one day dad can't be watching like he's gonna be if be, if you're right, it'd be like his girlfriend will be watching or something. I know. I realized at a certain point that it was not the moms there anymore. It was the girlfriends. And I looked out of place and it was heartbreaking, heartbreaking because sure, it was a part of his life growing up, but it was a big part of my life watching him grow up. And so it was tough. Yeah. And those final games and he was in grade 12. So how old are you? Remind me how old you are in grade 12. Is that 18? He was 17. 17. Yeah. And it was funny because, you know, people talk about that sadness of your child moving on to university and moving out of the home. And it's really funny. I wasn't sad about

that. I was excited for him that he was starting a new chapter and like, wow, this is cool. Look at you. I was really sad about the last games watching him play hockey. It was funny because it hadn't even occurred to me really until that time that it was a bit of an intimate experience watching him play. That's my kid, you know? So having said all of that, he's at U of T. He's actually just finishing. He's in fifth year and he's just recently qualified for his honors double major in polysci in history. So he's made great use of his time, but he's played hockey sort of on and off with the teams at his college at U of T.

Yeah. Which college is he at at U of T? He's at, oh, no. You should know this. Trinity University, St. Mike's. They have the new college. They have, oh, what's the one with the W called? Oh, this is right on the tip of my tongue.

How could I not know this? This is so bad. That's okay. Oh, it's the one with the W. The W one could I not know this? This is so bad. That's okay. Oh, it's the one with the W. The W one. I should know this too. It's not Worthington. See, I went to St. Mike's

and I'm trying to remember where it's at. This is bad. If it comes to you later. I'm going to get in big trouble for this right now. The W one. That's okay. Your son's a double major. I actually went to U of T, St. Mike's College,

and I had a double major in English and history, which is similar to what your son's doing. But I digress. So he's playing there now. So yeah, he, so he played with, you know, the teams that, I can't even think of the words now, intramural, I guess that they had. And he's played with some buddies back in Oakville, which is where he grew up when he goes back at Christmas and sees friends. What's interesting is my daughter also played hockey all the way through grade 12. And she played at a more competitive level than he did. She was a goalie. And she's now at Ryerson in journalism, but got a job right away at the anatomy center. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which, if you know your hockey, is Maple Leaf Gardens. That's Maple Leaf Gardens, yeah. So she works there, and that's her dose of hockey while she's in school, because it's, you know, if you've been through the university drill, and they both have part-time jobs, it's really hard to get time to do hockey and schlep your bag around.

Now, who came first, the boy? My son's older. Okay, so I had the same thing. So I had my son, and then two years later, I had a daughter. And I put my daughter in Timbits, thinking she'll play too. Like I was so excited. One I had my son, and then two years later I had a daughter. And I put my daughter in Timbits thinking she'll play too. Like I was so excited. One year of Timbits, and then she said, Daddy, I don't want to play hockey. So she went to dance.

She went to competitive dance and never played hockey. And I really wish she had played hockey because I just love watching my kids play sports. It's so much fun. And, you know, we had the opposite experience where my daughter is very petite and in every way looked like a girl who was going to love dance or gymnastics. And so we had put her in that.

And just the way it worked out, and we were living in Winnipeg at the time, that often I'd sort of get my son dressed a bit early and he'd come to her dance class and we'd be behind this glass and she'd be doing her thing. And then we would go to hockey and she'd sit and watch his hockey. And she wanted out of dance so bad and gymnastics and all she wanted to do was hockey. And I finally said, Laura, like, why? I really thought, you know, you're so petite. This is just not going to be your wheelhouse at

all. And she said, because everybody claps for him. And I realized that she loved that sort of live vibe and she didn't want to be behind glass where she saw me clapping. Well, she chose wisely, in my opinion. I wish my daughter had the same thoughts at that age.

She loved it instantly. And the funniest thing is she was a defenseman when it started. And very lucky for her, one of the years that she played, Adam Graves, who, you know, knew Rangers of years and years. Former Edmonton Oiler? Mm-hmm. He has a daughter who was about the same age, and they were playing on a team together.

And it was back when the kids are little enough, they just rotate through the role of goalie. It sort of gets the short straw of the day. And Laura was in net and had a good game. You know, I think she might've been seven. So, you know, by the age of seven-year-old standard, she had a good game and Adam said, you're a good goalie. And I was just like, oh, we're sunk now. She was like, if he thinks I'm good. So the next thing you know, you're buying pads and all the extra stuff that goalie parents get to pay for. I can't, so I sit, I happen to always pick the same seat and it's behind the net. Like, so I, I, it's, I call it the lonely end of the rink from the, the tragically hip song, but I'm always so grateful my son was never a goalie. Like it, to me,

like to me, that's gotta be tough for a parent when your kid's the goalie. You know, with, with Laura playing in the rep system, there was a period of time where I would joke that I had the best abs at the rink because I didn't exhale for like 90 minutes. Right. Right. And, uh, it is, you know, it is unnerving, especially when it's a one goal game or something, and there's a rush coming toward your kid. Yeah. And if they get all their skaters, you know, somehow behind your defenseman and people are turned around, twisted around, it's like, oh, this is just bad. Oh, I can't imagine. And if your kid lets in a weak one, right, you must think you just, you just feel so

awful for your child. And I just, I'm glad that you had to go through that. And I didn't. Well, and I always had to be aware of the fact that people knew who I was. Right. So you're not just managing your reaction for your child, but also for everyone around you. And this is more competitive.

Because your son was house league, right? And then your daughter did a more competitive level. So I've never had this competitive experience. But in house league, at least where my kid plays, it's all about doing your best and having a good time. I've never actually seen like an angry parent

or pissed off parent. I've seen a few. Yeah. I hear about them a lot. I've just never seen one. Well, and it's funny. I mean,

I would, you know, see it in, in boys hockey, you know, just because even, you know, kids that we knew

playing on an opposite rank who are playing a rep game or whatever, you just, you hear they're crazy for a mile away. But it's not exclusive to boys. It's the girls too. And that's especially toward the later years when the girls are chasing scholarships because they're not chasing an NHL contract, right? But they can get a full ride scholarship in the States. Right. Because the NCAA has women's

hockey. So that's when the crazy kicks in and it's quite something to watch. Oh man, that's great. So that was a good question, Brian. You know, it got us talking about our kids and all. But one thing I do have though, and I will be sad when my 16-year-old plays his last game because this level apparently it's midget house league. The ages range from like where my son is

at the youngest age to like 19. There's 19-year-old kids? Yeah, it's a kind of a goofy catch-all. You really see, not everybody has fully gone through their height sprout in midgets, so you really have these teams that look not perfectly chosen.

No, you're absolutely right. And the biggest thing I've noticed is, because the previous level, all the parents would still go to the games or whatever. But at this level, like I'm there, I go to every game, but there's a lot of,

there's not many parents come into the games. Like these, these guys are driving themselves. When they drive themselves. And then you pull up beside, you realize the minivan next to you that, you know, the family,

it's the kid driving. That's right. Yeah. I probably should stop coming. I told James though, if he tells me to stop coming, I'll stop. But I will, I told him even when he's got me to stop coming, I'll stop. But I will,

I told him even when he's got like a men's game at 25, like if he doesn't mind me sneaking in and watching, I'm going to be there until he kicks me out. But what I have going on is I have a, uh, I'm a back next week. I enroll him in kindergarten. I have a son and daughter like 10 years behind.

There's like a second set coming up that are just starting to enjoy it all over. Right, right. So at least when James does wrap up his house league career, hopefully I have two other kids. Just pivot to the other two. That's perfect. That's right. That's planning.

That's exactly. Yeah, we'll call it planning. Diana, I need to tell you about Paytm.ca. I actually just wrote about my experience with Paytm Canada on my site, torontomic.com. Paytm.ca, it's a free online bill payment service that helps manage all of your bills in one spot. So I pay my utility bills, mobile, phone, internet, gas, property, taxes,

education, credit cards, insurance, rent, blah, blah, blah, blah. I pay them all via Paytm using my credit card or my bank account. And until January 31, they're offering all customers 2% cash back for any bill payment, any amount, and any payment method. And you can score that up to 20 bucks. But here's the good, the thing I urge everybody to do is use my promo code Toronto Mike because they'll give you $10 off your first bill payment. I wrote about this experience.

I had an $84 hydro bill and I only had to pay $74 because I used the promo code Toronto Mike and Paytm paid that extra 10 bucks. So go to paytm.ca, download the app and you can thank me later. Diana, let's go out west here. Let's bring you back to, is it Manitoba? Is this where Diana Swain comes to be? In Thompson, Manitoba, which is, you know, pretty far north and not a very big place. And that's, see, for people like me, ignorant people like me, we know of, pretty much, we know

of, we know Winnipeg, of course. Winnipeg is a city we know. Full stop, that's it. Maybe, is Brandon? Is that, they're right, because I, the Brandon Wheat Kings. Yeah, and then I'm pretty much done with my Manitoba. I think the drive time, not having done it, I think the drive time from Winnipeg to Thompson is in the area of eight hours straight north. Oh, wow. Yeah.

So seriously north. So if I were to drive now north, how north in Ontario could I get in eight hours? I've never done it like... I don't know. That's pretty north. You might run out of room. That's right. That's pretty cool. So you're born way up there. But you are, you don't, at what point do you end up in BC?

I was five. So my parents, once they moved to Canada and named their two children, decided that, you know, that was about enough for them. And so my parents divorced and I moved to BC with my mom and my sister because my aunt, my mom's sister, had also moved from Germany and was now living there. So that's where I grew up. This is an interesting note that's out there, so this won't surprise you,

but I have some music for this. Which one should I go with? Ageless Beauty, maybe? Sure. Chilliwack's a pretty good band. Rayno is a song I always liked by Chilliwack. Chilliwack was huge when I was in high school. But, you know, the dirty secret of this is they're not from Chilliwack.

What? Yeah, for real. But they're from BC. Yeah. Oh, thank goodness. Apparently, and I'm borrowing on, you know, my own sort of deep history on this one, I think, that they were from Vancouver,

and there was already a band named Vancouver. And their manager or whoever said, well, give us another name, quick. And somebody said Chilliwack, and they went, fine. And they became a far bigger band in the end. Yeah, that's a good can-con back there. You could always rely on Chilliwack for some con-can back in the 70s there.

So you represented, I feel like I need to play a breaking news clip here, but you represented Chilliwack in the Miss Canada pageant? Yeah. That's amazing. It was a long, long, long time ago. Yeah, true story. It wasn't that long ago.

Come on. You look like you could represent Canada in the pageant now. Come on. Oh, thanks. Come on. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because I think if you said that to someone who's, you know, a quote-unquote millennial now, they'd go, a what?

A beauty what? Right. They don't really exist. I mean, toddlers in tiaras, maybe somewhere in the deep south. No, I do see on Twitter sometimes when there's like a Miss Universe, they'll be like, oh, this contestant didn't know what the, I don't know, that America was in North America, whatever, something like that. I think I actually won on the strength of my answers to some questions,

partly because I could string a sentence together. Right. Now, let me ask you, though, I didn't even realize Miss Canada could have, so when you represented Chilliwack, aren't you actually representing British Columbia? No. I mean, it's here's some more, you know, trivia for you. Let's do it. The Chilliwack pageant at the time was so big that it was considered a qualifier. Like you've got to buy right into the Miss Canada. I, like Vancouver would get this, right? I didn't have to go do anything else after that.

It was just straight in. Chilliwack. It was crazy. And it was, I mean, it was a big part of the culture of the town. There was a big fair and there was a week-long series of events in the community that culminated with the pageant at the end. And in the Evergreen Hall, as it was was called which was the main community center it was packed with hundreds of people for this pageant it was a really big deal maybe that plays bigger in uh

smaller centers maybe like maybe in a bigger place like vancouver maybe that i mean they had the miss pne pageant i was in that one as well um which is you know, the equivalent of C&E out here. But it was, you know, looking back on it now, part of it was that Chilliwack was really settled by a lot of Dutch,

German immigrants. And for them, this was a real part of the culture they had brought from home. What was your, like, did you ever have

a skill or something? Like, did you ever have to do a dance or sing something or play an instrument or something? In the midst of Chilliwack,

I don't think there was a talent. I remember we had to cook a meal. Oh, okay. Gotta prove some... We had to cook a meal that was based

on our own sort of ethnicity. So I made this German meal. Sauerkraut? And it went on for weeks, weeks. Like every weekend there was something we were doing. There's a, I go to Germany quite a bit, actually. So they have this thing called Currywurst.

Currywurst, to me, it's hot dogs with like a curry type sauce on it. This is like, it's a few, it's almost like a few, to me, it's like, yeah, like it's big deal there. Like I went to Christmas fairs. Everyone's getting curry-versed. And I tried it, and it was excellent. It was really good. Because it was hot dogs and ketchup, if the ketchup had the curry powder in there.

I actually recall that I made something called a fleische salat. It's like meat salad. It's essentially cold cuts cut up and tossed with vegetables it couldn't be more german right they love their meat over there by the way i i went with uh the stars ageless beauty because it's can con not that i'm uh you know i don't have any can con requirements here that's a personal preference but i thought should i maybe i should do like in excess beautiful girl like that's a sweet track so I'm gonna play both here because I got some more. I like In Excess that's all right with me. In Excess uh that uh cassette cassette the album Kick I had it on cassette and it was a playthrough every song was really good and I think I

destroyed the cassette just by playing it so many times uh love that cassette. Michael Hutchins was so cool you know that voice is really... There's some voices that stand out that are just not repeated by anyone. He was a good front man, like, and then he had that charisma, like he had sort of that Mick Jagger swagger. Yeah.

If you will. My friend directed Michael Hutchins in a movie that was never, like, never released anywhere, but this is, like, just prior to Hutchins' death. He did a movie called Limp. In fact, my buddy, he goes by the name Custom, he had a hit in 2002.

This is for those listening who like the obscure stuff, but he had a hit in 2002 called Hey Mister. This was like an alternative rock radio hit in Canada. But yeah, he directed Michael Hutchins in Limp, and then shortly thereafter, Hutchins was gone. But man, that was tragic, because yeah, he had that charisma that you get in these lead singers.

But Miss Canada, real quick here, the Chilliwack one. So was there like a bathing suit competition, or is it just like... So bathing suit competition. Bathing suit competition. Yep. In the Miss Chilliwack and in the Miss Canada.

And then in Miss Canada, we also had a talent portion and I chose to sing, which was probably the dawning for me that I can't sing. That's the tough way to find out, actually. Jill Deacon, just to bring it back to another CBC person, used to sing. Did you know this? She was in a band. I didn't know that. Really?

In fact, she's performed at such places as the Horseshoe Tavern. Oh, wow. She was in a real up-and-coming band. That's cool. Called Bag of Hammers. Bag of Hammers. I like it. Next time you see her

at the CBC holiday party. Yeah, I'll mention that for sure. When you guys all get together to compare notes or whatever. All right. So Miss Canada pageant. You did not win Miss Canada though. I did not.

Because that would have been my exciting footnote to the story. I was actually the youngest contestant that year. And the woman who won, so I had just turned 18. And the woman who won, so I had just turned 18 and the woman who won was 23. And just the life difference of that five years was pretty remarkable. I was, I was way in over

my head the whole time I was there. Wow. Well, good for you for being there. And, uh, you didn't have to club anybody in the kneecaps to get through the Chilliwack. It was all in the up and up. There was no, uh, it was all in the up and up. No scandals there. So how do you, okay, so you didn't end up becoming, you weren't, and you could have been a model, but you decided you would use your brain in your career. So how did your broadcasting career begin at West?

You know, it's funny, in a very backwards kind of a way, given that, you know, there's a family history of broadcasting, but it wasn't a history that I had been exposed to because my parents were divorced. So my father was a broadcaster, but I wasn't, you know, he was in Manitoba. I was in BC. I didn't see him very much growing up. So I wasn't really exposed to it in the same way, but I loved English. I loved writing. And like everyone else I knew in grade 12, I was trying to figure out, you know, what next? What am I going to do with my life? And I was angsty about it. And a teacher I had said to me, stop worrying so much. Just what do you love to do and see what job that leads you

to. And through total fluke, I found myself in a meeting with the man who was at that time, through total fluke, I found myself in a meeting with the man who was at that time, the publisher of the weekly newspaper, and talked my way into a job. And, you know, to this day, I'm not entirely sure what I said that was so persuasive. But I think it was, you know, how will I get experience if no one will give me experience? You know, not a very original thought, but he hired me. And I worked there for about nine months. And we both agreed, you know, you can't just take on this job without formal education. There's something to be learned about the craft of writing. But he had worked at CBC Radio earlier in his life. And he said to me, you actually, you're a broadcaster.

You write like a broadcaster, you know, work with your voice. And that, you know, over time, it led me back to school. And the rest is history. The rest is history. What's that expression? If you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life? I've worked a few. Some days it's just work. That's right. That's right. So you mentioned your father. Your was uh co-anchor so this is this is fascinating to me so in at some point you end up in winnipeg on tv co-anchoring the evening newscast uh at a station called cknd and you're

co-hosting with your father yeah i mean that's different estranged father you really want to add no i want the weird that's the best part so best part. So I finished school and I got my first job as a broadcaster full time in northern B.C. in Prince George. And at this point, my father, who had actually been the first play-by-play caller for the Winnipeg Jets when they went from the WHL into the NHL, the company that he worked for at the time then lost the contract to the local CTV affiliate. So he was, you know, dispirited that he wouldn't be doing the games anymore. And he moved into the news anchors chair. And it, you know, a few years after that, I'm in the same line of work and he and I are trying to sort of, you know, get to know each other a bit better. And he says, look, my co-anchor has quit. Why don't you apply? You won't get it. You're too inexperienced. You're too young, whatever. But I'll make sure that they

give you a really fulsome critique, something you can work with. So sure enough, I didn't get it. Donna Friesen, who's currently the anchor at Global, got it. So like we've all known each other in this business for a thousand years. I was told, I was told when I told Jill Deacon that I had just had on a gentleman from, from a popular band who said that, you know, he,

Andy Mays from the Sky Diggers. Andy Mays knew Jill Deacon because they had performed together at some point and I said, oh my goodness, what a small world.

And he says, that's Canada media. Yeah. Everyone knows everybody. It's so true. It's two degrees of separation in the media. So anyway, I applied.

I didn't get the job. And then Donna didn't stay very long and the job was open again. But by this point, my dad was on a golf holiday, not knowing that I'd actually come second. And they called me and they said, hey, do you still want the job? And I had to call my mom to go, how do you feel about this? Because there's like, you know, many divorces with not an entirely pleasant affair. And she was, you know, to her everlasting credit, just said, you know, if this is important to you, then go do this. So I accepted the job and packed up everything I owned in a U-Haul and started driving across the country.

And the story goes, my dad came back and they called him into the boardroom and said, hey, we have news. We have a new anchor. And they actually pushed a Ryan Coke towards him, which was my dad's favorite drink. And he knew something was up because it was, you know, middle of the day and the GM's pushing him a Ryan Coke. And he says, what's this for? And he said, it's your daughter. And I think my dad probably downed it in one swallow. I can't, I can't off the top of my head think of another example. I'm sure you might know other examples. I don't actually. I've never heard of an example of it since. And certainly at the time, I mean, to their credit, you know, they promoted the heck out of it. Well, I was going to say that's the reason you're right.

Time Magazine did an interview and McLean's and, you know, everything. It's like a reason to, you know, make some noise and market it that way. Anyways, father-daughter co-anchors of a newscast is kind of cool. And how was it working with your estranged father? You know, I mean, on some levels, it was an opportunity for both of us to get to know the other as, you know, as adults. But it was also fraught. I mean, as an experiment in managing your emotional baggage, it's, you know, I wouldn't recommend it. But we, I think, you know, on the one hand, I got to know him, which I really, really value because he passed away many years ago now.

which I really, really value because he passed away many years ago now. But the other thing professionally is it taught me to separate, you know, what's going on in your own life with what you're projecting on the screen because people don't need to know if you have a headache or if you've had a bad day or if you're annoyed by something. And there were periods of time when we worked together for two years where we were not speaking. But as soon as the light went on, it was good evening, I'm Diana. Good evening, I'm Brian.

And we would do the show because that was our job. And we took the profession seriously. But it was incredible skill learning for me. I will say it sounds like it would be tough for a father and daughter who got along swimmingly, like who had a great relationship. To me, it would be very difficult for them to work together like this. Like there's probably a very good reason why this doesn't happen more often or whatnot. But in your situation where, you know, you're sort of getting to know your father as an adult, where you were estranged, I can't, I'm not even surprised to hear you say that there were periods where you

weren't talking to each other and stuff. That's sort of a, like, that's sort of a, that experiment that throwing like a Petri dish here of what happens if we take a estranged father and daughter and put them side by side on a newscast. Oh, like, I don't think anybody would be surprised if it goes poorly or whatnot. So kind of amazing that this two years. And what was your relationship with your father like after you stopped working together? Initially, not great. I left to go to CBC. And part of it was complicated by the fact that I got the job at CBC in the morning.

And, of course, you know, intended to go give notice myself to the station, which was by then owned by Global, and a local reporter for the newspaper. Back when, you know, sort of the gossip column thing was still a thing. He found out from someone at CBC and called my dad and told him before I even got to work. So, you know, talk about complicating things um so we didn't talk for i would say a better part of a year after that um but did you know sort of find our way back to each other which as i said i'm really grateful for because i went to cbc initially as the reporter and then as i mentioned earlier eventually got the job as an anchor and when my dad you know i told him hey i've gotten this opportunity he went to global and said give me another role i don't want to compete with her And when my dad, you know, I told him, hey, I've gotten this opportunity.

He went to Global and said, give me another role. I don't want to compete with her head to head. And so they had just crafted a management role. He was going to go off the air. And my dad, who was very athletic, golfed, curled, everything all the time, had not been feeling well. And he thought it was actually a groin pull. Then he was told he had walking pneumonia. And unfortunately, by the time they realized what it was,

he was in the final stages of cancer and never did go on the air again. He died a few months later. I'm sorry to hear that. And at the end, though, did you... I'm naturally curious about this only because even this relationship you're describing with your estranged father, which has the strains you didn't talk to, it's still like, that's like amazing compared to the relationship I have with my father. So at the end, though, before he passed, did you guys work it out? Yeah, I mean, I think to the extent that was reasonable and I'm low to say, oh, it was fantastic because there were still moments of tension between us. But for at least a year, I think, before he passed away, I would have dinner with him and his wife every Sunday. And it was, you know, my dad was a very rigid guy. He wanted the same meal every Sunday. And we had to have eaten and finished by the time 60 minutes started. And nobody could talk during 60 minutes. So we would just sit and watch 60 minutes. And then I go, okay, see you later. And I go home. But we shared this experience of kind of, I guess,

bonding in a way over the work that we did. Well, Loma, good on you that you participated in that ritual, at least that part of his life every week. Yeah, I reflect on it now with just a lot of gratitude. It gives you at least a sense of closure, if you will, because your father is passing away, but you've got decades and decades of life ahead of you. And it's what you have to carry with you, the baggage you've got to bring with you. Some of those things do inform how you live your life. I was 29 when he passed away.

And it did make me think about not always imagining that you're going to live forever. Things happen. And certainly in the news, every day we're confronted with people who die suddenly. And you can either just be sad about it, or you can try to think about it in a way that motivates you to try to live your best life. Now, you mentioned you left that independent state. Well, you said a global, I guess, took it over at some point. But a CKND.

You left CKND for CBC's Winnipeg station, CBWT. And you were a reporter. And is this where you, is the show called 24 Hours? Yeah, that was what the 6 o'clock newscast was called. And it was a big deal. Like, hands down, one of the most exciting moments of my career was finding out I was going to work there. And then this leads to you being a national reporter, right?

So you're covering Manitoba and Saskatchewan for the national. Yeah, I was awfully young. I think I had been at CBC for, gosh, maybe a year when I kind of lucked into the National gig. I was 26 years old. It happened very quickly. Wow. That's excellent because you're well decorated, if you will. There's honors that's come flying your way.

Should I read a few? This won't make you embarrassed. What do you mean? You're begging me to read them. Okay, then. Yeah, sure. All right. Let's see if I can get this right.

Okay. So this is for your work on 24 Hours, which you were, at some point, you were the anchor of 24 Hours. Now you're really going back into the vault here. Come on. I got a crack research team and they work very hard.

Even when I walk in pneumonia, they don't stop working. They're always working. So what do we have here? Okay, the great Gemini Awards. I once, my buddy won a Gemini Award for filming something for CBC and he let me pose with the Gemini and then I wrote a thing in my blog about

how I had won a Gemini Award for best blog. This is back like in 2003 or something like that, okay? And I thought it was obvious it was a joke. So it was one of those things where I thought, oh, no one's going to like, but so many people gave me legit congratulations. And then what do you do? Then you're screwed because you don't want to make them feel stupid or whatever. So you just accept the congratulations. So you have people in your life who think you're an award winning blogger. There are people out there who think I'm an

award winning blogger. If only the Gemini Awards were so progressive to give blogging awards, that would have been great. But you did win real Gemini Awards. This is real. So you won, correct me if I get the number too low. I might miss a few. There's too many to count. Three Gemini Awards for best news anchor. Three. Best news anchor. And I have some footnotes here that are kind of impressive here, which is that by winning this award, which is a most prestigious award, you broke a streak. Apparently there was a streak that the national anchor, Peter Mansbridge,

and of course Lloyd Robertson, who was the CTV national news anchor, they would like take turns winning this thing and they'd swap it back and forth forever. These guys would just take turns. And then you break the streak. Diana Swain wins that award sorry peter and sorry lloyd it was an amazing moment i mean i you know i i still kind of get

goosebumps thinking about it because i was i was a local anchor so there was that you know nobody ever expected a local anchor to beat the two and anchors. And if you're going to be a local guy beating a national, you better be in Toronto, okay? Right. What are you doing out there in Manitoba? Not in Winnipeg. And, you know, a really important achievement for me was that I was first, the first woman to win it. So, you know, there are a couple of benchmarks there for me that I get to take with me to the end. Amazing. And where are these Gemini Awards today?

Actually, it's funny. They're on the mantle of our fireplace in our living room, and my partner gets after me all the time because they're fingerprinty. Oh, right, right, right. Shouldn't you be shining these? I'm like, right, you know, that's on my list of things to do that never gets shorter.

Don't touch my Gemini. Somebody gets too close. Don't touch them. They're fingerprinty. Yes. Very cool. I'm going to play. Okay. Before people think I'm just playing the Tragically Hip

because I happen to love this song and it is my favorite band of all time. I'm actually playing. Give it a moment to brew here. All my life, I wanted to make movies. A good movie can change people's lives. A great movie can change the world. This, of course, is Made in Canada.

Best theme song of all time. I'm surprised you didn't win a Gemini Award for this because you had a role on Made in Canada. Yeah, it's funny. Your research is good. I'm impressed. When the CDC comes, you've got to be ready. And I, you know, what a stretch emotionally. I played a news anchor who was announcing something about Gordon Pinson.

And the most exciting part of all of this was that a couple of years later, I met Gordon Pinson. And, you know, I was like trying to figure out how to work into the conversation that, hey, that was me. No, that's great. Yeah. He's one of the great Canadian gourds, you know. I have a list of the great Canadian gourds. It's rather lengthy, but there's a lot of great Canadian gourds. He is genuinely a lovely, lovely guy. I've met him a few times now and just nice. I just saw him. I think it was him and Stephen Brunt are in Newfoundland for

some hockey thing that Rogers was covering. That's right. Canadiana right there. This is, come on. Made in Canada, which is I hear was good. Don't get mad. I don't think I didn't watch much Made in Canada, but I loved that they picked a Blow It High Dough

as their theme song. That's a very Rick Mercer thing to do, I think. Well, Rick's a national treasure for doing that. So that's great. Yeah. So you made a Made in Canada appearance, which is very cool. Now let's see. Let's pick this up in 2000 here. Okay. So you're anchoring the Winnipeg portion of CBC's Canada Now. And then you leave for Disclosure. And Disclosure is here. It's here and there and everywhere. That was part of the problem. Okay, so you tell me, but you're living in Winnipeg,

and I guess you have to commute to Toronto for Disclosure. The first season, Disclosure was meant to be a new investigative news magazine. CBC doesn't create new programming on the news side very often. And it was competing with the shows at the time like Dateline. And the first two hosts were myself and Wendy Mesley. Wendy was in Toronto, I was in Winnipeg. We each had teams in each center and we were flying all over the place doing these stories. And it was almost a crazy ask for two people to be able to deliver this show every week. It was nuts. Even you two who are like two of Canada's finest.

We were spent. And at the end of the first season, it was just like, okay, we can't do that again. And Wendy went to Marketplace at that point. And then Mark Kelly and Gillian Finley joined the show. Gillian had just come back from ABC in Jerusalem. And so then the three of us did the show. And that second season, I stayed in Winnipeg. But we had moved the editing to Toronto. So I was effectively living in the intercom on Front Street.

It was nuts. And my children were young and it was just unworkable. And so the third season, I guess that was 2004, 2003. I'm going to say 2003. I don't want to tell you about your life, but let's go with 03 on that one. Your facts are pretty good on the list there. I'm impressed.

So that's why we moved here. And I did Disclosure for one more year, and then the program was cancelled. And it was cancelled, but now that you're in the big smoke, you're living in the GTA and you're working in Toronto, you get to host CBC News Toronto. And fantastic, because Winnipeg's fantastic. I have nothing to give. I've never been to Winnipeg. I should go to Winnipeg. Is there something I'm missing in Winnipeg? Yeah, you know.

Sell me on Winnipeg as like a vacation destination. That may be harder. I would say to you that as a young person trying to get a start in a career, trying to build up a little equity financially, it was the perfect place to be. You got a chance to actually move up the ladder and not wait behind 100 other people. Because it's big, but not too big.

No, I think Winnipeg now, and I'm guessing it's been quite a while since I lived there, but I guess it's probably in the range of 750 population, 750,000, which is a pretty good-sized city. And, you know, it's where the legislature is centered. And it was a great place to live and a place that is happy to embrace strangers. So, you know, I had arrived by myself. And even though my father was there, you know, as I said, I was trying to kind of figure all that out. And I had instant friends

and friends' parents saying, come with us for Easter and Christmas. And it was just a really important time to feel like you had some sense of community around you. And everyone I've ever met who's been in Winnipeg feels that. But then you did, for professional reasons, you had to up and move to the GTA. And you're now, you're in Toronto. You've been in Toronto ever since. Yeah. And Toronto's a little bigger than Winnipeg. Tiny bit.

But it's also cold here, as you learned very quickly. Well, and I learned quickly how big it was because, you know, having grown up in BC, lived in Manitoba, I had been in Toronto a lot, but CBC is right on front street, stay at the hotel, be in the edit's way at the building. I really hadn't seen Toronto at all. So my husband at the time, he and I came here to buy a house and the realtor showed us 31 houses in a day and a half. Wow. From the beach to Oakville. And we thought we were in Toronto the whole time.

So we bought this house literally after being in it for 15 minutes, got on the plane, wrote an offer, got back. I hadn't really even processed that we hadn't bought a house in Toronto. Right, because it was Oakville. That's funny. Who knew? That is funny. Yeah, it turned out to be a great place to land, and our kids had a terrific time growing up there. But I've always lived on the outskirts of Toronto. I've, to this day, still not lived in Toronto proper.

I'm exactly the opposite in that I've always lived in Toronto. I mean, only a short period of my life that I actually lived downtown Toronto, but I've always lived in Toronto. Like I would, I mean, I've only a short period of my life that I actually lived downtown Toronto, but I've always lived in what I would call the 416, if you will. So this is probably the furthest, like I'm still in Toronto here, technically, of course, but this is probably the furthest from the core I've ever lived is right now. But there's an advantage to being in Oakville. Like you're very, you can hop on, you can hop on the highway or whatnot and be downtown pretty quickly, but you got space, like you got places to park

and you can, you know, there's. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I mean, I realize it's, you know, people will have all their emotional reactions to this, but we had seen a house in Toronto and I remember the realtor showing us it was kind of a high park area and we started looking at it going, okay, maybe.

And my husband pointed at his sign and went, no. And it was the no street hockey. Oh, the stupid no street hockey. And it was like, what? I'd never even heard of that. And it was all my son did at that age. He was, I think he was seven then. And there was no way we were going to come back home and go, Hey, we're moving and you can't play street hockey there. And we actually drove down the street where we bought the house in Oakville and there were kids playing street hockey. And that was enough. That was enough. Yeah. I don't remember if we had a no street hockey. I played a lot of street hockey as a kid. I always figured that was one of those silly bylaws that no one enforced. At least I hoped it was like one of

those. We don't enforce this particular bylaw. But you're happy at Oakville and you're hosting CBC News Toronto. And then, of course, you get this. I want to talk about The National here for a bit. So you substituted for Peter Mansbridge as anchor of The National. So tell me about what it was like. Well, tell me a bit about working for CBC News Toronto and then what it was like on the flagship news show, The National.

Well, it's funny. I started filling in for Peter when I was still living in Winnipeg and would fly in for that. And I, there was a huge flood in Manitoba, just massive and took out houses. And it was kind of a dramatic story unfolding as this water was flowing north toward Winnipeg.

That was back in 97. And Peter came out to do some live broadcasts at that time and saw what I was doing. And he knew my work as a reporter for the National, but then I guess, you know, I'd been doing the local anchoring for a while. And it was him that called me at home and just said, hey, you know, I'm impressed. And how would you like to fill in for me when. And I did that from, I guess, 97, 98, till the changes on the show this past year. So for, you know, the better part of 20 years. Blair is a, Blair had a question for you.

Okay. And Blair is a guy. Blair is one of those names, you know, it can go either way. But this is a male Blair. Wants to know your thoughts on the revamped national so uh that's the first question the second question is an obvious question i'll get to i'll ask the second one in a minute but uh what do you what are you going to tell me now you hate it it sucks like that would be pretty exciting that would be

career suicide i think actually but uh what do you think of the new... You know what, I think it's a pretty bold thing to do. And it's tough to try to recreate a show with that level of profile, with that level of history. Try to do it in a new way. And there was no way to come up with something new without having some people love it

and some people not love it. I know the four hosts really well. I know Ian and Adrian the most because, you know, we've all come up through CBC together at the same time. And I know how much work they're putting in behind the scenes to get the show to feel like it's gelling. But I also know how hard that is. So I think it's, I think it's still evolving a bit to finding its, its feet fully, but there's lots of smart, smart people behind the scenes. So the show is going to be great. Did you, uh, have any desire to be, uh, one of the, how many, 12, 13 hosts? No, it's only four, right? Okay. Like there's no, we couldn't have added another one here. Did, did, would you

have, I know really like to have been a selection for the... Five's a nice number. Yeah. You know, the obvious question, did I want the job? Right. I did, but I also equivocated about it. And that's, you know, me being as honest as I can be. I wanted it because it was, you know, it was the top of the mountain.

And it just seemed reasonable through my entire career that that would be the place to want to get to. And a lot of my career has been spent, you know, anchoring the news and, and as you say, you know, winning some awards for it. So it felt like in some ways, kind of a natural next step. On the other hand, um, you know, the older you get, the more you value your life, I think. Certainly more I do. There was a time when I was willing to just, you know, spend every waking moment at work. And I like to think I'm a bit wiser now. I'm putting a little more currency in my life.

And the reality of the job is you're working till midnight, Monday through Friday. And you really have to want to accept what that means to your life. And I wrestled with that for quite a while, which is not to say that, you know, I turned down the job. I wasn't offered the job. But in another, I was disappointed at the time. But I think as time has gone by, and I've sort of thought, okay, you know, how honest was I about how badly I wanted that? I think I would have had a difficult time with the changes in my life to accommodate it. Yeah. Now that you said that, they're going to offer it to you tomorrow. That's what's going to happen. And then I'll be stuck.

Because now that you've talked yourself into the idea that they did you a big favor here by not tapping on the shoulder. I know it's terribly cliche, maybe even trite, but that idea that all things happen for a reason, in the moment, it never feels like that. In the moment, it just feels like a disappointment. But I think for me, it was probably the right thing in that I've got my own show, and I'm enjoying building it and I'm still enjoying the time that I have that's my own. And it's a kick-ass show, which we'll get to in a moment here, of course. But that whole, everything happens for a reason. I'm of the belief that it's not that everything happens for a reason. It's that when life gives you lemons, you paint

that shit gold. So it's a little bit of a, it's kind of your take. So it's more of like, that shit gold. So it's a little bit of a, it's kind of your take. So it's more of like, you know, you want this, you want it, you didn't get it. Well, I didn't get it. Therefore, I'm going to make this work for me, like sort of deal as a, which is not that it happened for reason, which I think is kind of silly. It's, you know, it's interesting too, because at a certain point in your career, you think, okay, well, you know, how big can the setbacks be? And then you have one where you go, oh, okay. So I guess I'm not doing that. And I see that you have four people doing it now, so you won't need me to fill in for anybody. You know, on some levels, that was the harder pill to swallow was going, wow, you went with four people. I knew I hadn't gotten it, but I

didn't know who had or that they had gone with four. So I learned that on Twitter like everybody else. And so it was more difficult to realize the impact of that decision. And because you're not a white guy, you had a good shot at this. Apparently not good enough. Well, you know who else didn't get tapped on the shoulder? Wendy Mesley is not tapped on the shoulder either. No, she just launched her own show last week, though. So, you know, as you say, it's like now she's got her own show.

She doesn't have to, you know, work with other people. Well, you have your own show. And in fact, I'm going to play a clip from it very shortly. But I wanted the national. Now, I don't know when I'm going to have an opportunity to do this. And I hope this works as well as my Michael Jackson cold open. As what? Your mind movie. That's what I always call it when I've got a great idea in my head. Let's see if it translates. Yeah. Let me see if

I even have it actually. Maybe I, maybe I don't have it here. Tell me about yourself here. Hold on. I'm going to see if I have it here. Just one second. Maybe I'm going to not have to even do this idea that won't work because maybe I don't have this here. This is live. We're not live anywhere. You'd think I'd edit this, but I actually won't edit this. All right, we're not going to. Oh, here, let me do it.

I'm being completely unhelpful just sitting here silently watching. Why don't you sing the song you sang at the Canada pageant? Oh, good Lord, no. I wouldn't put anyone through that. Ethel Mermans, Everything's Coming Up Roses. Oh, no. I wish you had consulted me. I should have consulted someone.

Ethel Mermans. The National with Norton Nash. Isn't that awesome? Okay, so what I have here, a bunch of openings from like 1978 to when they revamped the show here. Monday, January 11th. In 1982, the CBC moved the news into primetime television. Tonight, on the National

documentary profile. It worked. Viewers came back to the CBC. That's Rick Mercer's voice there, right? Yeah, it is. The National. With Nolte Nash.

Good evening and welcome to our new hour. Our new hour. Wow. Yeah, so that's the, that's Nolte Nash with the National Stars. Friday, May 8th. My pet peeve is they always say the date, but they don't give you the year. Yeah. But what do you think of this music?

Should we bring this back? So that one, I think that. The National. Yeah, that sounds like it. With Milton Nash. No. Good evening, and angry and. Huh.

So the very first time I filled in, sitting there thinking, okay, I'm not nervous, I'm okay. All right, I got this. Got your earpiece in. And they roll the animation and the music goes right into your ear. And my knees started moving like,

I was, I was just jumping. Suddenly I went, oh my God, I'm doing the National. Like, there's that music. I was fine right up until that went in my ear, and then I just robotically read the music. Well, if you hear it now, eventually we're going to get to music that resonates with you eventually.

Maybe there'll be some post-traumatic stress response from you. I'm going to watch you closely here. I did it a few more times after that, so it was okay. Hannah Gartner and Peter Mansbridge. I forgot Hannah Gartner. Good evening. From CBC News. We'll probably be around that time.

The slums. Oh, that's you. Is that you? If I had a rewind button, I'd go back. The National with Hanukkah and Eric Sorensen. Good evening. We'll just do a couple more. Oh, I remember those days. Yeah, I remember this one. Tonight, a CBC News investigation.

The National. From the Canadian Broadcasting Centre, here is Peter Mansbridge. Good evening. Is Peter bored? Have you talked to him lately? Like, is he... When did I talk to him last?

I don't think he was bored, no. He's got a beard. Like Letterman beard? Not Letterman crazy, no. But it's like every person who ever goes off the air makes some dramatic change, right? You know, women who had long hair go short or whatever just because you're like, finally, freedom, I can do this without checking with someone first. He was busy, I think, preparing to do a whole bunch of speeches that he had been hired to do around the country.

Yeah, but I heard they canceled because he was going to do a Massey Hall thing. And I know that one was canceled. And I don't know why that was. So I haven't been in touch with him since before. You know why? Not enough ticket sales. Why do you cancel anything? Come on, Diana. I'm going to do some investigative reporting for you here. But Peter, no, he doesn't have any, you talk to him, he doesn't open up to you about any remorse, buyer's remorse. Like, what was I doing, Diana? Why would I quit that gig? No, I think he was pretty settled in his mind that he was done.

gig you know I was no I think he was pretty settled in his mind that he was done and and I think you reach a point where you're just like okay in your mind it's like you know if you've been on like working and you're leading up to summer holidays you realize that last week before you go on holidays you were effectively not working yeah your mind is already decided to be done right and I think Peter was feeling that for a few months before he left. It was like he'd already made that decision. He'd announced it. The process was underway to redo the show. So, you know, I mean, I don't want to speak for him, but it's certainly not my impression that he has any regrets. Well, here's what you can do. At some point you can text Peter and say,

get your butt to this guy's basement and do an episode of Toronto Mike and then I can, and he doesn't even have to clear that with the PR anymore. No, now he's, you know, he can make his own calls on that stuff. But I'll still wear this shirt if it makes him feel. I think that would please him. So let's, while we get you to your own show, your current show I want to talk about, let's see, you step down

from anchor of CBC News Toronto and you move to the CBC News investigative unit and you know, the CBC News investigative unit. And you were your senior investigative correspondent, and you would make your frequent reports in the National. But you still do reports in the National? Yes, although I've been doing them less in the past, I'll say, six months.

And a part of that is because the investigators is turning into a bigger workload than I think they anticipated when I was given the show. And so I've been focusing more of my time on that these past few months. The investigators of Diana Swain. Getting there very soon. Let's just talk quickly about Olympics. So you mentioned you're going to Pyeongchang. Did I nail that? Am I good? Yeah, Pyeongchang. And I'll be at Bokwang. Bokwang. Which is also known as the Phoenix Snow Park. So I'm going to be up in the mountains.

And you were also, of course, you were an Olympic host for CBC Sports in Beijing, you mentioned, in 08. But then you were also there in Sochi. And you're going back. So I don't have to ask any questions like, why the hell are you not going back? Because you were great. Except I'm doing a different role now. did the the sports hosting role the first two times this time i'm going with the news department so i'm there to report you're there in case uh there's a ben johnson redux or uh or you know north korea say something something something happens

what is can you update me uh what like are they there what's the agreement right now between North Korea and South Korea? I actually think this is going to be one of the dominating stories in the first week, which is that North Korea is going to send some members of its women's hockey team to play on what was the South Korean women's hockey team. It will now just be called the Korean women's hockey team. They're also sending some Paris bigger skaters, some short track skaters. One other, I forget what the sport is, but particularly as it affects the women's hockey team,

it's becoming quite controversial. What was seen as a move of diplomacy is not going over well in South Korea at all. Really? No, and it's in part because they're adding these women to the roster. So first of all, you're going to have this inflated roster. And that's going to be an issue should this team perform well

because they're going to have more rested players. They've got to play something like three North Koreans in every game, which is raising the eye of the coach who's saying, you know, I'm not going to be able to make pure coaching decisions. And you have women who made that South Korean team who thought they were going to be in the Olympics playing hockey

in their home country who just got sort of shuffled off to the side. Right, you got bumped for North Koreans. And there was a survey done by a South Korean news agency that found like 70%, seven zero of South Koreans are really unhappy with this amalgamated team. So, you know, it seemed great to the politicians, catching out this plan somewhere else is not playing so well. Now they all know they're all playing for bronze anyways.

I mean, I mean, come on. I mean, can you imagine though? I mean, we talked about hockey. So how does that work? You have a line change. You've got a precious few minutes to sit on the bench and figure out what to do the next time you're out there. You've been taught to essentially distrust each other. You have, you don't know each other. You don't have any real chemistry. You've got something that's, you know, the antithesis of chemistry going on. How's that going to work?

You're right. That sounds like that'll be a story to watch, as they say. I didn't realize it had been viewed so negatively, because I only got the headlines, if you will, and it sounded like this nice diplomacy. It's kind of like some evidence that North Korea is going to play nice during this, you know, big event. Oh, yeah. I mean, the announcement, you know, there's practically doves flying in the air.

It's great. But not if you're the athlete affected by it. I'm surprised that the dear leader, because, you know, his father has the record for lowest round of golf. Did you hear this? And he's got all these great, I'm surprised he didn't inherit any of, he should be in the Olympics himself. Like he must have inherited some of that greatness.

Perhaps it was the summer games or something. We'd see him out on the links. I think his father ran a 100-meter dash, I believe. Five seconds. Five seconds or so. And his father doesn't defecate. It's quite a remarkable family lineage.

You should do some investigation into that. It's quite remarkable. Let's talk about investigators. Okay, so this is your show, your current show. It started in 2016. This is The Investigators with Diana Swain. Congratulations on getting your name in the title of the show.

I know, right? That's so important. I'm no fool. Seriously. 30 years of experience. I went, hey, how about we put my name on there? No, good for you. Let's see them find another Diana Swain.

They'll have to change it to Shania Twain and bring her in. So I'm going to read the PR thing that comes from CBC and then you can tell me what it's really about. I'm sure this covers it. But in an era of fake news and alternative facts, the investigators of Diana Swain pulls back the curtain on journalism, connecting with the journalists who break big stories, revealing the challenges, conflicts, questions, controversies,

and emotions involved in their work. We help viewers understand the real story by revealing what journalists do, the decisions they make, and the impact of their reporting. This is my kind of program because I like it when you pull back the curtain and you show me how the sausage is made. That's the kind of stuff I like. This is a great premise for a show. And we've gotten really good feedback.

You know, a new show is, it's like every other venture, right? You're just not sure if people are going to like it or not. And our timing was incredible. I mean, right in the middle of the whole fake news thing, and Trump, you know, Trump's been a godsend to my show because it's like an endless provider of commentary and topic and discussion. But more than anything, I think the days of journalists just saying, hey, here's what I discovered, are long gone. People want to say, well, how did you get there? How did you get that? How do you know it's true? Show your work.

As my kids would have said in grade three math, ink your thinking. So, I mean, that's kind of what we're doing. And it's one of those things where you start it and think, are we going to run out of gas after show number three? Or is there really going to be some energy and inertia here? And now we're into our second season. I think we did 32 episodes the first season, which is a lot for TV. What's your personal favorite stories you've covered so far? Like, if you had to pick like stuff that's resonated with you, came home with you, showed up in your dreams, perhaps? I mean, one of the first interviews that we booked, one of the first weeks we were on the air, I think,

was Christiana Monpour, who, you know, I mean, I've got a girl crush on her that goes way back. So the fact that she was on my show was beyond cool for me. Absolutely. But we've, you know, we talked to the guy who's the co-writer of Veep, who was also talking about just, you know, magically hitting the zeitgeist. They write that show months in advance, and yet it feels so topical. And, you know, even there's a reporter at the Washington Post.

His name is Ken Vogel. And people may remember that a few months ago he was having lunch on a sidewalk in Washington. And it's, I've been to this restaurant. It's like one of those really narrow sidewalk tables and stuff on the deck. And he, he notices that the two guys who sit down beside him are Trump's lawyers. And these two, for reasons known only to them, talk super loud all through lunch. And he ends up just taking these incredible notes about how within the White House, the lawyers are disagreeing about how much to cooperate

with the Russia investigation. Asking him about that incredibly fluky moment and how he covered it. And he was so excited talking about it. It was actually one of my favorite interviews. Okay, so I often have sports media people in Canada on this show. And so I'm going to play a little, I wanted to play a clip of your show. And I'm like, what do I play? Just to give people who aren't familiar with the investigators of Diana Swain, you have to say the full thing. You can't

just call it investigators. That's right. I want to let people who aren't familiar with it just get a taste of what it is. So I have cherry picked a quick discussion with Rick Westhead of TSN because he's a name a lot of listeners here are interested in. Also, I was told by Gino Retta at TSN when he came to my front door and I answered the door and he stared at me and he went, holy Rick Westhead, this is what Gino says to me. Yeah, so if he's my doppelganger, then I need to give him a little love here. So let's listen in to a little bit of the investigators of Diana Swain.

Yeah, Rick, I would consider myself a pretty passionate sports fan. I had no idea these players are virtually not paid. No, they're not. And, you know, at the root of it, journalism, in my mind, and I think probably yours too, is about trying to give people who don't have any power a voice. And junior hockey players across the country clearly fit that description. You know, you have players who come up through a system. They end up playing for teams that are for-profit enterprises that are making millions of dollars in revenue. But you still have owners saying, hey, we can't afford to pay players because if we do, we're going to go out of business. So it just almost begs for journalists

to dig into those numbers and see just how true those claims are. Now, your background really began in news. You were in foreign postings for newspapers. Now you find yourself in this very exclusive club of perhaps being one of the only sports investigative journalists in this country. But that's a smaller pond to play in. You're going to be running into these people that you're covering much more frequently. Does that make the job more difficult? I would say it's not an easy job. Obviously, it's not easy to confront Gary Bettman when every other reporter in the room wants to talk about good news stories for the league. Or at least seems to.

Are they going to the Olympics? Are they going to the Olympics or not? That's a story that the NHL can manage very well. But when you're confronting the commissioner at a breakfast like we just saw at Nashville at the All-Star game, and you're telling him that you've talked to retired players who are now struggling through early onset dementia, who don't have enough money to call 911 because when they have a seizure and they need to go to the hospital they can't afford to pay the ambulance to take them there that's a bit of a different situation and it really does put you on the outs with these

leagues very quickly if you pursue so there's a taste story it's such a disconnect with what your chat with rick westhead so there's a taste for people of what you're missing if you're not watching the investigators. It's interesting. We've had Rick on twice, and he's a great interview. But it's funny, and this is completely genuine for anyone listening. When he came on the last time, it was the week after the Ken Vogel interview. And as we were setting up to do the interview, we started talking about it, And he said to me, he was shocked that Ken Vogel had reported that conversation. And, and Rick and I just had this conversation about what's reportable. If you overheard something, would you report it? And so we were talking about that. What would the bar be? And for me, it was, you know,

well, listen, it's the president's lawyers talking about whether he's going to cooperate, cooperate with the, the Russia investigation. For me, that jumps the president's lawyers talking about whether he's going to cooperate with the Russia investigation. For me, that jumps the bar. Yes, you report that. But he was really taking a position that, no, like you overheard a private conversation. Those are the kind of ethical discussions that are fascinating because it serves the public interest.

It's kind of like, it depends what it is. But in this situation, like you described, I believe it serves the public interest. It's kind of like it depends what it is. But in this situation, like you described, I believe it serves the public interest to be aware of this conversation. Well, I thought I should have had him back on because he and I were having that conversation off air. And then we had this other conversation entirely on air. But it gives people a sense, I think,

that journalists themselves are always talking about what are the rules. Right. Yeah, I know. And I think in this, especially like you said, in this era of Trump, more than ever, these discussions are being had.

And I think it's great that we have a program that's sort of committed to digging into these stories and stuff. So you're in your third season? Second. Second season of The Investigators with Diana Swain.

I think I buried the lead here because you made another appearance I need to play. So I mentioned I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old. And it means there's a lot of, well, I feel they just revamped this show too. But Kid CBC is on a lot. See, now I'm really going to show my range here. Well, let's listen to you on studio k what's the point news this is what's the point news

welcome to what's the point news i I'm Diana Swain. Oh, wait a minute. No, no, I'm not Diana Swain. I'm Gary, and sitting right next to me is EIP and very serious news lady Diana Swain. Hello, Diana. Hello, Gary. Hi, everybody. And as always, we are here to ask...

What's the Point of this thing? Hmm. Hmm. Well, I know what they are, Diana. You do? Yeah, I do. You know what they are? They're friendship cups.

You can fill it with juice on this side and fill it with juice on the other side, and you can drink it together because they're connected cups. So come on, let's do it. Well, that's a sweet idea, but that's not what they're for. They aren't? Maybe if I get a better view. Maybe if I get a better view. You need a visual here.

Put them out there. I'm going to stand over here. It doesn't work very well in the podcast. Can you see those? Now I see what they are. I don't know why I didn't see it before, Diana. I know that they're hoof protectors. You put your hooves inside there.

It's just like boots for your boots. You don't remember every moment of your Studio K appearance? Well, that's a neat idea. I think so. But can I show you what they're for? I'm dying to know, so I need to... These are called swim goggles. Swim goggles.

You put them right on your head, just like this. Just over your ears. You put them on your head? Just over your eyes. Oh, yeah. They're swim goggles. I've seen Scott Russell do a lot of stuff on Kids CBC, too. This is awesome! You know, Patti Sullivan has been on this show,

and she was forever the Kids CBC host, and then they revamped it completely. So don't be so disappointed you're not on The National because Patti Sullivan is not on the Studio K. So there's a fun appearance for you. That was actually a lot of fun. I think, you know, by the nature of my work, because of the investigative piece,

the stories that I'm talking about are always pretty serious. And it's almost the only gear that people ever see me in. So when I get a chance to show that I actually know how to laugh, like we've done here, or that I, you know, have the ability to interact with a puppet.

I was going to say, if only I were funnier, I should have brought my A material, get you laughing more. But remember, I did have walking pneumonia very recently. That's right. No, I'm happy to cut you some slack. And we are going to kick out a couple of jams here in a minute,

which will show us a different side of you. But I want to get one more serious question about the CBC. So this is from somebody on Twitter who is known on Twitter as Silverback. I know you love feedback and questions from anonymous people online. So silverback, which that's a gorilla, right? Silverback. I think so. Yeah.

Oh, gorilla. That's exciting. So silverback says, and I'm going to just read what I think it's a he, what he wrote. Please ask her about the CBC being so left leaning. Do you have to be part social justice warrior to be a news broadcaster there? Would a young person even have a remote chance of being hired if they had conservative views? So I happen to be a big fan of the CBC and I consume a lot of CBC. I've also been accused of being a lefty because I bicycle.

That's apparently only lefties. Oh, yeah, that's the tell. That's the tell. Tell me, you must hear this a lot. There seems to be a perception, at least from conservative people, that, oh, the CBC is left bias, maybe liberal friendly.

Like, what would you say to Silverback? Well, I would say a couple of things. And no, it's not the first time I've heard it. You know, I've been at CBC since 1990. No one has ever asked me my political views. And I would have shut them down in a hurry if they had. Didn't ask me when I was first hired, haven't asked me since. And I'm not sure that even people who I work with really well would guess correctly necessarily. work with really well would guess correctly necessarily. And one of the things I think that was important to me as a journalist was to try not to form any political views. They weren't going to be useful to me in my life as a journalist. So it was better not to, you know, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what my own views were. I think that journalism by its nature is about holding power to account. You know, if you have a history where a country has had a lot of right-leaning power, then, you know, people who are in the right are going to feel like the media is against them.

You know, working at the CBC where, you know, the liberals have been in power for a lot, too. I think it's still true. I'd have to go back and look at the numbers, but it's certainly true for a long time that the biggest cuts we took to our budget were from liberal governments, was from Jean Chrétien's government. People would think it was during the Harper years. Yeah, I don't think it was. I mean, it may be in actual pure numbers now, but adjusted for inflation and all of that, the biggest cuts were during Chrétien's time. cuts were during the Kretchen's time. So, you know, if you're in power or if your party or your, you know, the ones you support are in power and the media is holding them to account, then maybe it's your instinct to say, well, you know, we're playing for the wrong team. I think the truth though, is that, you know, social issues often drive what journalists are talking about. So then there's this kind of wrong think that we're all about social justice warriors. Not really, but there are issues of social justice that only come to the public's

attention through the media. And was it Stephen Colbert who said, reality has a liberal bias? Is that the line that Stephen Colbert had or something like that? But I have to say, your dashboard-pounding conservative buddy who just would never touch the CBC because it's all bleeding heart, this, that, and the other, they prefer to listen to their AM talk radio. Yeah.

Look, I have family members who will go on at length with me about liberal bias. And gosh, my mom was a big fan of Trump's, I think until very recently. She lives in Canada. But she turned at some point? Maybe it's Trump's German background.

I think she's starting to turn. Yeah. Pardon me. And I think like a lot of people, it was less about voting for Trump and not being able to bring themselves to vote for Clinton and what they thought that she represented in the status quo, in what they believed was entrenched kind of favoritism. You know, we're doing our thing over here and you just don't worry about that. I think people were desperate for somebody with a different message, that it was less about what he was saying and the fact that it was an alternative they were willing to try. Sounds like a protest vote. Well, it can be. I mean, I think a lot of people would argue that Rob Ford was a protest vote. Yeah, you're right. And

I think he did, you know, come up the middle of like the 40, whatever. There was a lack, I think it was like George Smitherman and Rocco Rossi, I think were your two big guys against him. And I think, but the fourth thing, you're right. Absolutely. There's a lot of people who are like, yeah, let's enough of this and let's try something different. I think as long as people are engaged, as long as people are voting, that's better than people just not voting, just giving up on the process. So, you know, regardless of who gets in, at least people made a choice. I, you know, whatever their choice is, I'm, I'm happier with a citizenry that's engaged than one that's just dialed out. And I realized we should tell Silverback that Rex Murphy's on CBC.

So if he's looking for some conservative, angry people. I don't think he is anymore. Is he gone? He did cross-country checkup for years and years. You're right. But he's still writing a column for the Post, I think. You're right.

He's not doing cross-country. I always liked the way he turned a phrase, though. He always had completely different opinions, but I enjoyed the way he turned a phrase. His writing was so good. Oh, my gosh it's i mean was still is so good now is silverback the guy who referred to me as the swain like a noun no that was uh no the swain oh yeah that's who was that jason beattie i think was his name on twitter who's got really excited he wrote me dms like he's like i would would, you have, uh, I'm glad you

didn't reveal anything more than you live in Oakville. Don't get too specific. You don't live in Oakville anymore. I actually now live north of the Toronto. So don't tell us where, I'm just worried this Jason Beattie guy seems really into the Swain. I thought the Swain, now there's a handle I like. Yeah, the Swain. So, uh, he's listening for sure. So hello, Jason Beattie. Uh, the Swain is in my basement. Don't get too jealous. Okay. Don't The Swain. So he's listening for sure. So hello, Jason Beattie. The Swain is in my basement. Don't get too jealous. Don't be too jealous. Let's okay, let's talk music for a moment. So I mentioned that Dave Hodge did his top 100 songs. And this is part of a series. I think 30 people have come over to do it so far, kicking out the jams. I couldn't let you come over to

kick out the jams because I needed to take all 90 minutes to do deep dive with you, but I did ask you to give me a couple of songs that you love. So I'm going to start playing one and then I'll bring it down and maybe you can share with us, uh, why you dig the song and what it means to you here. Nice choice. Swain. Swain.

I can see the video in my mind's eye. I can see it now. This is such a good song. I just want to turn it up I was born Long ago I never took And I'm the one I'm here

To save the day And I won't leave Until I'm done So that's why you've got to try you've got to breathe and have some fun so I'm not playing

I play this game and I won't stop until I'm done but what I really want to know is are you going to go my way And I got to, got to know it Nice. It was my morning drive song.

And when my kids were still living at home, we're little, and I had to transition in the morning from mom or mummy to Diana Swain on her way out to do an aggressive interview with someone. I needed some way to get my head out of home and into work. And I would crank this along the gardener just about as loud as I could stand. And it just, you know, it was like, okay, mom's done for a little while, and Diana Swain's in the seat.

And it would, that are you going to go my way would always be my kind of, how's my day going to go? Is this going to, you know, is this interview going to go the way I want it to go? Nice. That's kind of cool, like your transition from mom to Diana, to Lenny Kravitz, Are You Gonna Go My Way. So hearing it now, though, do you feel like you want to go for a run or something? Yeah, it's great.

It's also a great running song because when you're starting to get tired, you're like, I don't know if I got anywhere in me. This comes on and you've just got to move. Do you run? I do. Do you run in the winter? Not outside. I have fallen twice.

And I have some pretty good scars on my knees from those falls. And I am more terrified of falling than just about anything else. So, no, I leave the winter running to the brave folks. To the crazy people. I have another jam we're going to play here. So this one's a little different and a little more recent, but let's hear. My lover's got humor.

She's the giggle at a funeral. Knows everybody's disapproval. Should have worshipped her sooner. If the heavens ever did speak She's the last true mouthpiece Every Sunday's getting more bleak A fresh poison each week We were born sick, you heard them say it My church offers no absolutes She tells me worship in the bedroom. The only heaven I'll be sent to is when I'm alone with you. I was born sick, but I love it.

Command me to be well. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. That's a great jam right my life Take me to church I'll worship like a dog That's a great jam right there. Take me to church. Is it hosier?

I don't know. Is it hosier? Or hosier? I'm not sure. I feel like it's hosier. I have no idea actually. I was hoping you'd know. I don't know.

Do you know Kate Wheeler? Kate Wheeler was on CTV News CTV News for a long time. She also did the CFTO News here in Toronto. Anyway, her daughter kicked out the jam because she's an actress on a bunch of shows my daughter watches. But Alexandra Beaton, her name is, and this was one of her jams, Take Me to Church.

Oh, really? You know, it's such a haunting song, but it struck a chord with me the first time I heard it. And I actually went to the Internet the first time I heard it to go, is it about what I think it's about? And it is, of course, about tolerance and about a gay couple feeling persecuted. And it struck me so deeply because it's using the metaphor of the

church and the church intolerance. And the community that I grew up in, in BC, was in BC's Bible Belt, as it was called. It was a very devout place. Everybody went to church. Everybody. You know, the overture you'd make as a kid was not, do you want to come and have a sleepover? It was, do you want to come to my church on Sunday? Interesting. But I was raised by a single parent who was agnostic and we felt really isolated by that sometimes, my sister and I, and we saw a lot of intolerance up close. And so this song was just like, wow, I remember that. I remember people feeling there was only one way to live your life and having no room in their hearts or minds for anything else,

even though ostensibly that's what their spiritual beliefs were about. So for me, this is such a powerful song. It actually kind of takes me back listening to it. I like this part. is there any uh like any religion in your life now or is that too personal no it's not too personal it's i would say i'm a more spiritual person than a religious person because i for a time did go to church um you know, I was confirmed in the church. I was married in the church and my kids are baptized. I liked going to church partly because it kind of reminded me from home long after I'd moved away. But there's enough about organized religion that's given me

pause, certainly stories that I've done in my career as well about the way the church treated people who were abused. It's too difficult for me to get over that divide. So I'd say I'm a more spiritual person in my beliefs than someone who sort of openly shows that by going to a service on a Sunday. So you mentioned raised by your mom, who is agnostic, as you said. How do you, was it the father's influence?

Like, how do your kids end up being baptized? Oh, you, is it, was it the, like the father's influence? Like how do your kids end up being baptized? Like, Oh, you know, it's funny. I mean, it's probably just, you know, layers of, of, I don't know. I mean, we didn't go to church. I was baptized, um, myself and we didn't go to church as a kid. But you had no say in that matter. No. And my mom and my aunt went home to Germany and visited their mom at one point. I would have been about 16. And I guess somehow, weirdly, in the conversation came out that they didn't go to church in Canada. And their kids hadn't been confirmed. And my Oma lost it.

Lost it on them. My mom came back and like, we went to church religiously for six months while I got confirmed. And then she was done with it. Exactly. months while I got confirmed and then she was done with it. Exactly. And so I think I wanted my kids to have exposure to organized religion, to have a sense of it, not to feel like they would have to play catch up at some point in their life. But it's interesting that it's not something that's captured them. And they're both young adults now who could make that choice. I know I promised you, I gently promised you 90 minutes and I stole an extra 15 minutes.

So you can, that's okay. I'm only late for a meeting with my boss. That won't be a problem. Tell them, just blame it on me. Just say you were blinded by the, oh my gosh, this is like those old jokes where, oh, the guy's in a car accident and there's a doctor performing surgery and the father's dead in this story somehow and he's like, oh, I can't operate. This is my son. How can that be possible?

Remember these riddles? Like, how can it be like, oh, the doctor is the mom and then everyone's brain explodes. Like, of course. Yeah, it's like, what? That's a mom. I can't believe I assumed your boss.

Of course your boss is a woman. I'm such a fool. Listen, even though I'm a fool, will you still take a quick photo with me before you run to this meeting with your boss? Absolutely. No, that's all I care about. And that was fantastic, by the way.

Thank you so much. Thanks so much for the invitation. This was fun. And thanks for doing that mini kick out the jams. Those are kind of cool tunes you've picked. I'm impressed. Thanks. Your rep is changing now.

Serious Diana. And I'm sorry for playing dirty Diana off the top. I wasn't suggesting anything. It's just a cool jam. No offense taken. It made sense. And that brings us to the end of our 302nd show. You can follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Toronto Mike. And you are, Diana is at Diana Swain. It's Swain Diana because I didn't understand Twitter when I started. You can change it without losing your followers and stuff. You know what's funny? It says there's another Diana Swain. I think it's me.

I think from another account I created. So you've got to log in to the other one and change it to something else, which frees up Diana Swain and then come, I can help you do this. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer and propertyinthesix.com is at Brian Gerstein and PayTM is at PayTM Canada. See you all next week.