Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - DJ Ron Nelson: Toronto Mike'd #271

Episode Date: October 10, 2017

Mike chats with DJ Ron Nelson about his Fantastic Voyage show on CKLN, bringing the first hip-hop shows to Canada, the emergence of Maestro Fresh-Wes and Michie Mee, recording the Dream Warriors album in his home studio, Reggaemania and what he thinks of Drake.

Welcome to episode 271 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent brewery producing, celebrating 30 years in the craft beer business. Visit GLB at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard for $5 patio beers. And propertyinthesix.com, Toronto real estate done right. And our newest sponsor, PayTM, an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot. Download the app today from paytm.ca.

I'm Mike from torontomike.com, and joining me this week is the godfather of Toronto hip-hop, DJ Ron Nelson. Welcome, Ron. The godfather, huh? Thank you. Are you okay with that term? I'm just, you know, still flattered by all of this attention, so thank you. Are you okay with that term? I'm just still flattered by all of this attention. So thank you. I've learned to just keep it simple now. Just say thank you and keep it moving.

And now I'm wondering, I'm hoping I didn't already use that term because Maestro came over. I might have called him the godfather. There could only be one godfather. Nah, we can have two. You can share the title. Maestro's a man still, yeah, of course. Thanks for visiting, because I know how busy you are.

You're a busy man. And we're going to dive into your past as the godfather of Toronto hip-hop, but these days you're a professor. I want to get the title right. You're a professor in the York University Faculty of faculty of fine arts department of music well i've been doing that 12 years i i think that that that run is complete now i'm not actually back there this year but i was there last year for 12 years and yeah it was a great run i got to teach my life story almost you know it was the study of the history of hip-hop, like Hip-Hop 101. And it was like a history course.

So I went way back from the inception period and took it up to the golden years. And we sent like 500 privileged kids through the door every single year. It was a great thing. I felt bad for all the people who couldn't take the course that weren't part of the whole York thing. Because it was a good experience. I mean, hearing about it, I would like to take that course. Yeah, that's what I mean. When I speak to people like yourselves and a lot of young people, they're like, wow,

if that was at U of T or if that was at Ryerson or Centennial, like I would take that. So that's one of the things I would like to do is, you know, like get back, get the course back somewhere else and maybe do it in night school or some kind of extracurricular thing where it's open to to everyone maybe even online but uh yeah i like the whole teaching experience and it was i i would say in in a sense um the one little reward i got for putting in all that time promoting hip-hop and building it you know now tremendous uh giving back that's great. By the way, I saw you.

I want to get into the Joel Goldberg connection and give a shout-out to Joel, but firstly, because it ties in nicely, on July 2nd, I took my family to Roots of the Six at Nathan Phillips Square. You were there, Maestro Fresh West, Mishy Mee, the Dream Warriors. It was fantastic.

It was apparently, that was the first time that they'd gotten all those bigwigs together on one stage. So yeah, it was cool. And we all know each other from back in the day, so I think just like myself, they felt very good to be part of that whole thing, you know, to get a little attention.

It's nice. And right afterwards, a guy comes up to me, hey Mike, and it's Joel. So Joel was. And right afterwards, a guy comes up to me. Hey, Mike. And it's Joel. So Joel was there with his brother. And Joel Goldberg, people who listen to this podcast know he had an episode. Sometimes I call him Jay Gold. Depends on my mood. But Joel Goldberg made this happen. He basically vouched for me and made you come over. Is that correct? Yeah. Like Joel and I, we hardly talk because we, cause we've, you know, fallen out of touch, but we have a lot of mutual respect for, for each other. So, um,

when he contacted me, it was like, yo, what's up? You know, long time. It was like, we're literally hugging each other, you know? And then, uh, yeah, he dropped the idea about me coming down to see you. And he, he really, you know, promoted the fact that I should because I've been getting a lot of requests from a lot of different places and people and stuff because what's old is new again now. Everyone wants to find out what it was like back in the days and stuff. So he literally said, look, if you don't come down here and do this, I'm going to strangle you.

So, yeah, he forced me to come down. I owe him some more beer. I wanted to. Yeah, he highly recommended you, and I'm like, I'm dumb. I'm like, I don't know this guy. I don't know what he's been doing. But if you recommend him so highly, then I will go. So here I am.

I owe Joel so much because I wanted Ziggy from Much Music and City TV. And Joel literally drove her to my house and sat here while I talked to Ziggy. There you go. Joel's coming through. In fact, maybe I'll bug you about this later. But after that concert, Roots of the Six, I mean, I was talking to Joel and I'm like, I need the Dream Warriors. Like, I got to talk to the Dream Warriors. And he's like, oh, you know, Ron can make that happen, you know. So we'll talk about that one later. No pressure. No, we're good with that. Like I said're the dream warriors um mishi myself like we've gotten older now right so

we have a different outlook in life than we did back then so um we like talking to people and kind of spreading the love the information telling the uh stories of you know how things were versus how things are now so that the youths coming up in the business can learn from that and excel in their career paths. Yeah, awesome. Spread the love, man. I see your phone has a Maple Leaf case on it. Are you a hockey fan?

Yeah, I see you're a hockey fan too. I've been a Leaf fan for so long now and I must say that I don't meet a lot of Leaf fans in the reggae business industry. Nobody likes hockey and reggae. So when I meet a guy who likes hockey, yeah, man, I'm a Leaf fan. And I love the team the last couple of years, just rebranding. It's awesome.

So, yeah, I watched a game last night. Did you see that game? I watched every minute. Wow. My oldest boy is a big Leaf fan, too. And we were treating it like a playoff game. I don't know how to describe this. Yeah, that's what it was.

See, now we're talking hockey. Chicago Blackhawks, that's my girlfriend's favorite team. She had on her Chicago t-shirt, not t-shirt, sorry, the official jersey, the home team jersey. And last year when she did that, we lost all the time. Well, they always beat us, right? Not this time. Yeah, 3-1 in the third,

and their goalie was standing on his head, Forsberg. And it's like, when we scored with like 10 minutes left, I had that feeling like it was like the 92-93 Jays where when you were down by one going in the ninth,

you knew, Robbie, they were going to pull this out. This team and I... You have a feeling, don't you? You have a feeling about this team. So fast. Yeah.

So skilled. And you've been, you know hockey, right? So if you've been a hockey fan for years and years, then people pay attention when a person says they have a feeling that means something. We don't want to say it, knock on wood,

but there's something special going on right in front of your eyes if you're a hockey fan. Pay attention. It's not the right time to cut off your sports network, your cable package. You want to watch those hockey games so you can, you know. They'll sell you the whole seat, but you only need the edge for this team. That's right. It's good to see

you're a hockey fan, though. No, loving this. And a Leaf fan, specifically. And we deserve this. I mean, it's been forever since we've had a team that was actually young and skilled. So we just deserve this. You know what? You're absolutely right. And I'll just drop this little piece of info for you. I was at a game,

and it was probably the only Leaf game I ever went to in my life because I was young and poor, and my uncle brought me, and it was a great thing to have hockey tickets. And I remember I was probably in grade seven because I was playing the trombone. And I remember being in the audience and saying,

man, I wish I had my trombone here because I want to do that. There's some old man laughing. I didn't understand why he was chuckling back then, but I understand now. But in that game, my favorite team at the time were the Boston Bruins, and the record still stands today. In that game, I witnessed Daryl Sittler scoring six goals

and four assists in one game. That's the game. I was at that game, I witnessed Daryl Sittler scoring six goals and four assists in one game. That's the game. I was at that game. Yeah, that's the only game. And I went to it, and I saw my team get kicked through the door. Still a record and never been really challenged, I don't think. Yeah, 10 points. If Gretzky didn't do it, I don't know who's going to do it.

Yeah, if Gretzky didn't do it and Mario didn't do it, then this thing's not going to happen. That's amazing luck, though. Special time. You must have thought all games were going to be like that, putting up double-digit points. I was just in my glory. I was sad that my team lost, but I'm glad now that the record still stands to this day.

It might stand forever. That's one of those records. Amazing. Real quick, thanks to Jackie Perez. She was on the show recently and she hooked up my entire family of six with Argos tickets for... Argos!

It's the very first time I saw the Argos at BMO Field. This was on Saturday afternoon at 4pm. And it was so much better to watch the Argos. They lost our game. We did lose, yeah. Close game. We lost to Saskatchewan. But what was really neat is when Mike Hogan,

he calls the game for TSN Radio. When he heard I was going to be at the game, he said, Mike, go get yourself media passes and you can come up and check out how me and Jeff Johnson called the game. So me and my oldest, we got our media passes. We were just walking around up there. We went into the press room.

We saw where the TSN guys were working, and then we got to hang with Mike Hogan and Jeff Johnson, as they call the game. Great experience for the kids, too. It's cool, yeah. It's just cool to see how all the sausage is made. So thank you, Jackie, for the Argos tickets. We had a good time.

I will say I wish I go to TFC matches there, and it's full house, and everybody's just rocking and rolling the whole time with their chants and their songs, and I just wish more people would come out because what was missing was a little bit of that full house ambiance. Yeah, I totally know what you mean. A little thin.

And I'll big up Paul Ramanuk, too. I don't know if you know who he is. Of course. He was in third year at Ryerson when I was in second year, and he was taking radio and television year and he was taking radio and television and I was taking radio and television. So I was looking up to him back then but it was kind of cool to see that

he's gone on to do something like that. He called the juniors tournament before Gold Miller. He's the guy with the famous call, it is over. Yeah, that's him. That's the Roman. Now he's back at Hockey Night. Good for Romy. Alright. He's a good guy. Alright, everybody at home, if you want to help

crowdfund this passion project, go to patreon.com slash Toronto Mike. A special thank you to Brad, who actually contacted me via email and said, hey, once again, he's like, hey Mike, I don't like Patreon, but I want to help you out. Can I give you a contribution via PayPal?

And he did so. So thank you, Brad, for helping out via PayPal. Ron, you have a case of beer in front of you. Do you drink beer? Yes. But I'm really a smoker, not a drinker. I smoke weed every day.

And the beer, if I started drinking and smoking, there wouldn't really be a lot of me left to do all the work that I have to do every single day. So I try not to drink beer or drink anything. Well, you or your friends will enjoy. That's from Great Lakes Brewery. It doesn't look like Heineken, which is what I'm used to drinking. You know, that's what we drink at reggae parties and stuff, Heineken and Guinness.

So these are some infiltrators. Which ones would you recommend here if I'm. Heineken and Guinness. These are some infiltrators. Which ones would you recommend here if I'm a Heineken drinker? That one right there in your hand. My wife's favorite too. It's a blonde lager. That's the Heineken equivalent. I can take this one? You don't have to drink it now.

I'll do my best afterwards to give you as many of those as I have if you want to swap them out. I want you to enjoy them out or whatever. Cool. Because I want you to enjoy the Great Lakes beer. No worries. Very nice. And when you drink that Great Lakes beer, you need to pour it into a pint glass.

Oh, really? Got to break down that CO2 so you don't get that bloated. You ever have that bloated gas kind of feeling after drinking a beer out of the bottle or a can? No. I'm not that big of a beer drinker to say that. I can't tell you that. So you smoke weed every day. Is this in the evening that you enjoy? It doesn't matter what time. Sometimes first thing in the morning, sometimes last thing at night. You know, when you work in a musical and creative environment, you know, weed is like a stimulant.

It's not this drug that it's been portrayed to be for years and years and years. I think we've been a little more educated now, so we know now not to fear the weed. And again, I'm not one of those people that smokes weed to get high. It's more like meditation to me. I just, you know, it's like medicine a little bit. Is it just like it takes the edge off, so to speak, or is it just it puts you in the right creative mode? It takes the boredom away.

The creativity aspect is fine, but I love challenges in life, and I want challenges to be thrown at me every minute of every hour of every day. And if I don't, I get really bored. I get bored with repetition, routine, people. So I always look to be provocative and controversial. And sometimes when you smoke weed, it just kind of, you know, it gives you that little oomph to get you through that boring time until the next adventure comes. See, to each his own, like knock yourself out. But my feeling is that that feeling of boredom, I know that feeling you're talking about. That's when I create something. Like when I get bored,

that's when I go and I, whatever, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. This project is one of those things that kind of happened. I was bored. Let me try this. So I find that that's when I'm kind of most creative and I show some initiative and I'll try something different because I'm bored. And my worry is if I smoke some weed when I'm bored, the boredom kind of goes away. And then do I use that boredom to create something? Do I lose my, you know what I mean? So it's to each his own.

To each his own. To each his own. Yeah, I totally get you. The idea is to create though. As long as you're a creative person and you go there, I mean, that's what you need to do. Some people smoke weed and sleep. And some people smoke weed and eat. Some people smoke weed and sleep and some people smoke

weed and eat. Some people smoke weed and they just want to have sex. You know, like we are workers. We are producers. I can see that you have a lot in you that I have in me. We're addicted to this whole game of audio and probably video as well now, too, and archiving and producing and recording and, you know what I mean, creating history and archiving history. Right. You know, so that takes a lot of work. It interferes with a regular lifestyle. And some people feel that that's why they're here in life. They deserve to live a regular lifestyle. They want to travel. They want to go here, do here, go here, do this, do that. We, people like ourselves, we get stuck behind a mixing board a lot. We get stuck in our creative space in front of our Mac or a PC,

and we're producing, we're engineering, we're doing stuff that may not be recognized at the moment, but later on down the line when we're finished with it, certainly it might shake up some foundations a little bit. You know what else you deserve? You deserve that pint glass right there. The one there. How's that for a segue?

This one. Yeah. Because I got to remember to present that to you. That is from propertyinthesix.com. And later, I'm going to ask you about Drake later. I guess we owe him for that moniker there. But that's Brian Gerstein at propertyinthesix.com. And we're just going to listen to a message from Brian.

He wants to tell us something. Let's listen to this. Propertyinthesix.com Brian Gerstein here, proud sponsor of Toronto Mic and sales representative with PSR Brokerage. PSR specializes in new condominium sales with the hottest projects in the city. Contact me at 416-873-0292 for more information on two new exciting condo projects, King Lee in the King West neighborhood and the One Residences at One Bloor West. That's 416-873-0292 to learn more about these exclusive projects.

Thank you, Brian. Call Brian, guys. Whether you're going to buy or sell in the next six months, call Brian at 416-873-0292 and have a conversation. He's a proud sponsor of this show, and we need to support the sponsors. You've got to change it. Have a condo. How do you say it? Condorsation. Condorsation.

See? Not conversation. We change it. That's the creativity I've been missing, man. Keep bringing that. And this is a brand new... Is that Pink Floyd? You got it, buddy.

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Hortons or gas at Esso. So visit PayTM.ca and download the Paytm app for free on your smartphone. And here's a very important call to action for everybody who has ever enjoyed an episode of Toronto Mike. Please use the promo code Toronto Mike to get $10 off your first bill payment. That's free money, my friends. Visit paytm.ca, download the app, and use promo code Toronto Mike, all one word, and $10 is yours. And you can thank me later. That's cool. All right. Can I call you DJ Ron Nelson, or is that too formal? Nah, just Ron is good.

Ron is okay. Yeah, like, act like we're homies and we've known each other for years and years. Well, listen, Ron, we're gonna start at the very beginning and my very first question for you is when did you fall in love with hip-hop? Yeah, that's a good question. See, the funk came before the hip hop. So I just want to get that straight. When I first started doing the Fantastic Voice program, the hip hop terminology hadn't really trended yet. And it was more about, you know, groups like Midnight Star and Lakeside and Cameo and a

lot of group that were, you know, starting to incorporate a little rap in it. But the hip-hop came after the rap. So I would say after I saw Run DMC, that's when I literally fell head over heels in love. I became hooked. Absolutely. The power of that group, not just on vinyl, but also live in concert, knocked people over. It literally knocked people over, and it made them pay attention to hip-hop.

So I credit Run DMC and probably a little LL after that, but definitely. I still remember those first 12 inches. You know, It's Like That and Hard Times and Sucker MCs. Like there were like two songs in each track. And when you play them, you have to play them loud. It sounded sick. I hope it's okay. I brought a lot of tunes to this episode and I'm just going to sort of play them when it's

appropriate. But it sounds good. That's great. It's like that. That's the way it is. So tell me, is this true? At Victoria Park Secondary, you built a radio station in the cafeteria? How did you know that?

Yes, I did. Tell me this. That's amazing, by the way, and I need to hear it now. You know what? I didn't think it was amazing when I did it. I was so driven just to give the people music because I just loved the whole life. I was doing school dances at this time as Fantastic Voyage disc jockey service. And I wasn't even thinking about Ryerson yet or what was around the corner. But that little radio

station thing, I think is what helped me get into the Ryerson Radio and Television Arts Program. So in high school, we had a jet fac, which is where the theater arts program was. It was this cool, dark room with this kind of audio suite at the top, which was really the lighting room. And I thought, you know what? I got all these friends that are so cool. They're in a new wave. They're in a pop.

They're in a, you know're in a little bit of funk. And I thought, why not kind of make a radio station with these brilliant heads who are so musically inclined? So because I was a DJ, all I did was set up a pair of turntables and a mixer in that control room. And we needed like 500 feet of speaker wire that ran up in the ceilings all the way down from that jetpack area to the cafeteria and then we connected some like big speakers and we hung them up at the ceiling and I was liked enough in the school where they gave me permission to do all this and the key now was scheduling DJs to come in in the morning before school, during the lunch breaks, and after school on a five-day basis. I didn't think that was difficult at the time, but looking back at it now, it was kind of a cool thing to do.

And, you know, when you're in grade 11 and 12, you love music. It's your breakfast, your lunch, your dinner. You're political because you're standing behind those groups. You're charged musically. So with all that enthusiasm, the whole idea now of people going into that jetpack and doing their half an hour, one hour shows started working beautifully. And it was something I was able to carry with me during my interview at Ryerson. Something I was able to carry with me during my interview at Ryerson and when they asked me about my experience and I told them about that, they were like, really? You did that?

Well, it's impressive because it's not only showing initiative, but like we're talking, like what are we talking like super early 80s or late 70s? Probably 79, 78, 79 probably. I mean, to me, I don't know. I was very young back then, but radio station in your primary school, secondary school in Toronto? Like, give me a break. No way.

Yeah, I didn't even know anything about radio at the time. I just loved DJing and mixing and turntablism. And I loved the people that also loved the music that I was playing and that I wasn't playing. So it was just cool. I think that was something meant to be. I don't know how I did that. Because now that I look back at it, it was like luck is part of skill.

That was fluky. But it was an example of someone having a vision and a determination to make a dream come true. And that's how you separate yourself from the regular people sometimes. Can you keep doing those things throughout your life? Then those are things that maybe you were meant to be. Passion in the belly. Meant to do, you know? Exactly. And at Ryerson, you interned at Q107.

Yes. Tell me what you did at the mighty Q back then. So I've always had a love for rock and roll. I still today listen to Q107. I know their entire Q107 library. Q had their radio station inside the Hudson's Bay building, which was right at Yonge and Bloor. And I think they were on like the 32nd floor or something.

Now, that was a power trip. When I was in third year radio and television, we had to intern somewhere. And I decided to take radio instead of television because I like working solo instead of with a team. And I got a chance to intern with the assistant, sorry, with the production director there. So my job was to go in the production studio

and put together things like the Comedy Bowl, for example, any of their jingles, their mixes. I would have to work with the reel-to-reel tapes and splice them and tape it back together with the editing tape and then package it and courier it to places like Calgary or the affiliate stations that Q107 had on a regular basis. And it was a great learning experience because I got to meet Gary Slate, Alan Slate.

I got to meet, you know, all the prime DJs from back then, Samantha Taylor, like people who, you know, were legends in their time. And when you look out that production studio, that broadcast studio from whatever floor it was, so high up, it's a power. It was one of the most beautiful feelings I've ever had in the world. One of the projects that we were allowed to do back then

was something called My Radio Hour where you basically send a letter to Q107 and you propose that you want to do a one-hour show and they would let us on on Saturday nights from midnight to one o'clock in the morning or Sunday. I forget which one it was, but I got to do a show there and I tripped out because I was a radio and TV student. I prepared all these things that other people hadn't done. And after that show was done, that radio station got calls from people who were just amazed because people don't normally mix rock and roll. They just play the songs from the beginning to end. I created this orchestra

of rock and roll songs and basically like a mashup with rock and pan things on the left and the right sides. And people recognize all that. And they were calling in and saying, yo, that was great. Did you save those tapes? Back then it was on reel-to-reel. That's an awkward format. Who has a reel-to-reel recorder nowadays? I got a buddy looking for somebody. If someone has it, let me know.

I've got some reels sticking around and I can't listen to them because I don't know what's on them unless I can find a reel-to-reel. By the way, you mentioned the name Samantha Taylor, one of my first crushes when she was on Video Hits. She was a hot blonde. You know, I'm trying to get her on the show so I've had some Facebook contacts. She's still hot.

She's, I got a pre-construction condo and she was the agent for the whole thing. I see you guys should hook up. It was a fluke. I'm like, wait, I know you. She goes, yeah, I've seen you before. Yeah, because she's got a married last name. Yeah, yeah. That's amazing.

She's happy, though. She's very, very good at her job, too. Cool. Great. Yeah, I know. Back then, it was Toronto Rocks and Video Hits. Those were your pre-Much Music sources back then. And then I got the Jay Gould show on CFMT.

He had a show, Say Anything or something like that? I don't remember that one. Yeah, anything else? Yeah. That one, lesser known. Okay, let show, Say Anything or something like that. I don't remember that one. Yeah, anything else? Yeah, that one, lesser known. Okay, let's get you to CKLN. So you're at Ryerson. You're interning at Q.

You get, I guess, you get the radio fever or whatnot. And then tell me how you create the, what I believe this to be true, Canada's first hip-hop show. Is Fantastic Voyage Canada's first hip-hop show? I don't know. It's been credited as being, but, you know... Until we hear otherwise, let's go with it. Yeah, until we hear otherwise, I guess.

You win. It's funny how history can get distorted when a couple of decades go by and people forget, like, you know, the accuracy factor is just missing. But I went to Ryerson in 83 after graduating from Victoria Park High School. And here's again the story of an enthusiastic kid. I don't know why every student didn't do the same thing I did.

All I did was on the very first day of school, I went to the radio station there on campus and applied for a job because I wanted it that bad. And that was the beginning. I eventually got a job there doing a show and I wasn't really able to play what I wanted at the time because they were very much in the like new wave and punk rock, which kind of bust the same time as hip hop. Right. And I didn't mind playing that stuff at first either, but I was able to get my foot in that door early. And at that time, ironically, I think there was just one girl who was playing black music. Everything else was white. OK, so when I came in and I started putting in some black music now, after a little while, they didn't like it and they took me off the air. And I remember John Jones and Anton Leo, those were the program director and station manager at the time.

And this is a good lesson for you guys. Don't give up on your dreams, because I literally knocked on that radio station's door every day after they fired me, because I wanted it that badly. And one day, out of nowhere, they said, Ron, guess what? You can have a show. And not only can you have a show, but you can have a show where you play the music you want to play. And that was the birth of the Fantastic Voyage program, the official rebirth, because eventually it would kind of transition into being a hip-hop show, but it didn't start off as being a hip-hop show.

Hip-hop was incorporated with everything else nobody really had a hip-hop vision back then to to think that they could do an entire show with just hip-hop because there wasn't enough hip-hop music accessible to canadian djs at the time you'd be able to play maybe one or two shows and then you'd run out of music well where did you get like was it just imports like where did you yeah imports imports you... Yeah, imports. Imports. You'd go to Buffalo. You'd go to New York. You'd talk to other DJs, find out where they get their records from. There's only a couple of stores that...

The stores back then had to literally have a guy who would drive to Buffalo to pick up records or drive to New York and physically drive them back. That's how the system worked. There was not a good system of distribution for urban music in Canada in the late 70s and early 80s. And as a result, only one or two record stores would have these records that you needed. And you had to go and you had to buy them.

And sometimes they didn't even let you listen to the records. You just had to buy them based on what you saw sitting on the shelf. And as we know, back then, the imports were pricey, right? These were expensive. Yep. Trust me, I bought a lot of them. And a lot of them were garbage, too, because you had to buy them anyway. Every week, we'd go to the record store and we'd buy everything because there wasn't that

much to buy. Can you imagine that? What was your go-to record store? record store? Mike's Music Shop at first and Monica's Records and also Star Sound Records a little later on. There was a couple of stores where I'm forgetting the names but you had to dig in a few different places to get stuff and the best stuff was always when you drove to New York and you went to the record stores there. It was one of the most amazing things that DJs were able to do back then. All right.

So now that we're talking about Fantastic Voyage, which was Saturday afternoons, right? On CKLN 88.1. Let me play a little bit of how you sounded back then just to give people a taste. I have a lot and I won't play too much, but let's hear you back then. What else have we got to announce? Some dedications going out. One is going out from Special T

to Funky Beats, Double B, Ducky Death, Busy Fresh, and also to the Lakeshore Posse. And I Ain't No Joke went out to the Sweet Sensation Sound Crew. And what else? There's a request coming from Mike.

Mike from the Rascals wants to hear MC Shen. He said his girl went away and left him lonely. Request for Sweet Yankee D. And an announcement about a club called Dreams, which is open every Sunday. It's pre--teen night or teen night i should say it's open from five till ten featuring the sounds of fascination sound crew that's five blocks west of highway seven and jane you can call 851-778-0 for more information so what's the region posse saying y'all listening y'all down

yeah and i want to say what's up to the people in Glendower as well. You know, hip-hop is definitely live this year more than any other year. And it's good to see the Canadian artists putting themselves on the map. Elements of style. That's going to be a hit. Bet you any money it's going to be a hit. And that's on the compilation record by Beat Factory Productions and Street Beat. Rumblin' Strong's work are in there as well.

Street Beat stuff's on the B-side. What's this? Toronto is on wax. Yeah, we know it, and it's only going to get better. The new Kenny Crush on its way down to the Fantastic Voyage program. I could listen to this for the next hour, so I'll bring this down. But that's how you sounded on

CKLN on Fantastic Voyage back in, I guess, early 80s? I don't know, early, mid-80s back then? I'm not sure what year this one's from. Yeah, it reminded me of all the work, man. That was a lot of work. Wow. A lot of work. There's another guy.

Branding, you know, we're branding artists, branding a culture, a movement, really. And a lot of people back then, that's what they rallied around was the Saturday afternoon experience of the Fantastic Voyage. Well, for most Toronto youth, that's the first exposure they'll ever have to hip hop in Canada. It was your show. Yeah. And it's amazing.

Like, I'm a humble person in life and I still feel like just, I don't know, just thrilled when people say that to me. Because at first, I didn't really believe it. But now I'm starting to believe it because I'm not exaggerating when I say when I meet people now, adults, people who used to be boys, but now they're men, used to be kids, but now they're adults, used to be little gangsters, but now they're men used to be kids but now they're adults used to be little gangsters but now they're parents and stuff you know they come up to me in the malls and and the streets and they they take a minute to say yo ron i know you don't know me but i just want to say thank you

man i go what do you mean what thank you for what because you you you did what you did and and you can't get those times back ever again you know know? And people don't even understand. And some of these men are rough, you know? But it's important for them when they see me, out of sight, out of mind, but it's important for them to take that time out to say thank you because back then they didn't really know, just like I didn't know, that history was being made and that moment would be cherished today.

Well said, and that's exactly right. You don't, some things you don't realize what you have until it's gone. And then you look back and it's like, holy smokes, that happened. Now I'm going to try to keep this chronological, but it's going to jump around a tiny bit. Like, for example, I'm going to play a clip. So Maestro Fresh West came on this show, Toronto Mic'd, and I asked him a question and you came up. So we're going to hear a very brief clip from Maestro Fresh West came on this show, Toronto Mic'd, and I asked him a question, and you came up. So we're going to hear a very brief clip from Maestro. Where would you go to consume new hip-hop? My man Ron Nelson, who's really like the godfather

of underground Canadian hip-hop, underground hip-hop, coming out of Toronto. If you look at the back of the first Boogie Down production album, they have a shout-out to Ron Nelson and the Toronto Posse. I'm like, yes, Toronto's on the map. You know what I'm saying? South Bronx co-signed us. Yes, we're here.

Toronto, we're there. You know what I'm saying? So, but Ron Nelson was a guy who was very instrumental to maybe, you know, bringing a lot of groups from the States to Canada for the first time. bringing a lot of groups from the States to Canada for the first time. And he was also the first guy to put me on radio when I was 15 years old, man, at CKLN 88.1. Yeah, the fantastic voyage, right? Exactly. That was my jump off right there.

All right, now I got a million questions. But first of all, how does it feel to hear that? Like that's a high praise from... Yeah you know maestro and i kind of we have that love for each other man i i say good things about him all the time and when we see each other we hug you know we come from that school but i think it's it's fairly accurate i didn't realize he was 15 years old again that's that's informative for me when he kind of when i put him on the radio and stuff but maestro used to use um cLN as a networking opportunity. Everyone was divided.

CKLN created that umbrella for artists who were hip-hop to come together and realize that, yo, there are other people that have that same essence, that same feeling, but now the concert hall would play its part as well, but the CKLN radio station itself, Saturday afternoons, that was where people congregated and, in theory, exchanged business cards. So when you have him on your show when he's 15,

is that music he would send to you? He would send you his demo tapes or whatever? Yeah, he would be a guy that would come up with these little creative stuff during the weeks and stuff and basically bring it down on cassette. The demo was, CKLN basically was a testing ground for a demo, right? If it was good, then people would give you feedback. So people needed feedback. And it was a cassette world back then.

Artists were divided. They didn't have any confidence. Nobody was a star. And everybody was trying, and a lot of people moved in silence, and nobody was really rating any Canadian artists at that time because nobody had kind of jumped to that next level yet.

It was anybody's game. You know what I mean? So tell me now, we're going to fast forward a little bit to 1989 before I draw back again to talk about the concert hall stuff. I want to get back to that. But first let's in 89 when maestro breaks and he's all over much music and

guys like me in high school are, you know, we're listening to this song for example. And I'm like, this kid's from Toronto. Like that was like, like that was the first time I remember like loving a rap song. And it's from a guy from the same city I'm from.

So how did, from your perspective as the guy, you know, hosting the fantastic voyage and helping to. Where? So how did, from your perspective, as the guy hosting the Fantastic Voyage and helping to promote these Toronto hip-hop artists, how did you feel when Maestro suddenly breaks? Well, I was surprised. We were all looking for someone to break. There was a lot of people with egos at that time who all felt that we knew hip-hop,

that we were experts on it. But, you know, nobody knew that Maestro was going to break. Anyone who tells you that is a liar. Maestro came out of nowhere and hit everybody over the head. And people at that time did not rate him. People rated Maestro because he sold records. because he sold records. People rated Maestro because he's a good person who does not have any bad mind

and who will embrace whatever it is that you're doing as long as it's hip-hop. But the era that we were in was very competitive where we did not respect each other as artists. And the fraternity was not like it is now where there's love amongst rappers and artists. It was very competitive and cutthroat. So CKLN was one of those few entities, us along with Much Music, that could help push this record through the door.

And the white kids that kind of saw that video for the first time, I think Joel was the producer. Yeah, he directed this video. They saw a video that was for the first time as good as the other rap videos that had been coming from America because nobody up here knew how to do anything in hip-hop. We didn't have that infrastructure and much less producing videos and making it look authentic. We didn't know how to do that either but this video came along and kicked ass and i i was impressed because up until this time you know there'd be no history of of our culture buying local artists records right we there was nothing for us to buy before there was nothing for us to rally behind. The little efforts that were made were not done properly. And I was confused then when Maestro's Records started selling like hotcakes because I'd

look around my local rappers and they weren't the ones buying the records. I talked to my people who I would normally bounce ideas off before I do a concert. They're shocked too. What's going on, man? Maestro's bussing. Like, Maestro's doing it. And we had to kind of sit back and watch. I'm feeling good because I'm playing his stuff at the radio station. But it's not me that's making people buy these records. And so we scratched our heads for a long time until I think we figured out eventually

that there was this whole new movement now coming into what we thought was our hip-hop game and it was caucasian kids white kids people who were enthused but guess what they had more money so they could they could buy into the culture they could buy the t-shirts the shoes the the track suits etc etc but they had a a rightful stake to the music as well it wasn't just ours that was what we realized at that time. The hip-hop music was for everybody. And thank God that Maestro was the first artist that was able to capitalize off this.

And it was partly because his song was good. He used that funky drummer beat, which was so addictive. James Brown, you know, big up, rest your soul. And your drummer as well, Mr. Clyde Stubblefield. And the Farley Flex being the manager. I mean, nobody had managers back then. Maestro had a manager who was a smart guy. And those guys didn't pay attention to what anybody else had to say.

They said, fuck all the rules, you know, we're going to do this. And they did it. And I was one of the first person just saying, yeah, go for it. Kick some. You know, a year before, I had made a point. I put out my own record, B-Boy Destruction. What year was that again? No, no, that wasn't a year before.

I'm getting it wrong on the timeline. B-Boy Destruction came out at 90-something. 90-something. So scratch that point there. There it is. There's that record. But why did I put out a record? You know, I was a promoter, a radio station DJ.

This was my way of saying to all these rappers in Toronto, step up to the plate. Spend your money on your music. Put out vinyl. Don't just put money in your money on your music. Put out vinyl. Don't just put money in your shoes and your clothes. Put out some records. Look, I'm going to do it, you know? 88 is when you put this out.

It was after the murder of Clinton Marshall. So that came out before Maestro then? Right. This came out before Maestro. Because this year, I'm telling you, no one can see this, but I bought this in 89 at, what was the record store at uh Young and College uh it wasn't a star show so yeah yes that's right okay yeah yeah so that's where I used to go by about a lot of 12 inches like

I have them here because I got Meister to finally sign them all so I have these out on the deck here but uh yeah this came I just want you to understand the frustration okay i'm a i'm a rap ambassador most of my friends are rappers why aren't they putting out records i this record i only put out what 800 copies ivan from beat factory uh helped me you know make this but it was my way of saying all you other rappers stop talking put up and stop stop being so stingy and look what happens when you put out a record one year later hopefully maestro found some inspiration from hearing my little squeaky rapping on that record that yo ron can do it we can do it and they did it no doubt no doubt when you were telling that story about like how you know white

kids were buying uh let your backbone slide and uh uh it's symphony in effect uh it reminded me of i read uh in now now magazine you did a like oral history of the concert hall right piece like earlier this year and you mentioned something okay so public enemy one of my favorite bands of all time there was a public enemy show and after the show somebody uh gave you a check It was the funniest thing. It was the funniest story. So this again, I've been doing concerts at the concert hall with primarily black audiences. We come from the ghettos of the city. So the projects, the Flemington Park, Regent Park, poor people business. The business changed one day

because I promoted just to those black people almost exclusively, with the exception of Now Magazine, Public Enemy being in concert. And I was shocked because when the concert happened, I remember the attendance was 1,100, and I swear 1,000 of those people were white. I couldn't understand where they all came from. Now, the other thing was

every white kid that came into the concert hall that night, before he went and took his place on the floor where he would watch the concert from, he went over to this guy that had a box of t-shirts. I didn't know this guy was there. And they bought t-shirts, okay it was uh run dmc t-shirts at the end of the concerts now i'm packing up ready to go everything went well and this big white guy with a fat belly comes up to me goes yo are you ron nelson i go yeah i thought he was like a police or something he goes oh okay here and he gives me i go what's this and it was like a check for like 7500 and i'm like what's this for and he he goes, it's yours, man. You earned it.

I go, how? He goes, T-shirts. Then he walked away. And that was it. I'm like, black people, we did not have the money. We didn't have money to do that stuff. Right. So you knew it was all changing.

You're selling T-shirts. So white kids buy T-shirts. The black kids weren't buying the T-shirts. We didn't have the money. We're selling T-shirts. So white kids buy T-shirts. The black kids weren't buying the T-shirts. We didn't have the money. We used to steal the shoes. We were breaking into stores after concert hall and taking stuff out of the windows. Anyway, I don't want to promote that negative culture. But it's a whole different story being a young black kid with no money and having to struggle to survive.

being a young black kid with no money and having to struggle to survive and and and you want hip hop versus being someone who was caucasian and more or less privileged and who had a little money and wanted the same thing right well this uh there's a tweet that came in from uh shane smith when he heard you were coming on my show and he tweeted i liked his concert promos when he'd say pay for your ticket don't rob a white kid lining up to get in. Wow. Well, you know, that used to happen. I don't know when I said that. I probably said it on the mic or something.

But yeah, the white kids back then used to get robbed. And I don't want to say we, but they would get their shoes taken, their chains, their money, their bus tickets. It was, again, it was a trying time. And that probably stopped a lot of kids from gravitating to hip-hop even sooner if that stuff wasn't going on. But as you know, now it's like the white people are at least 50% of the audience at every hip-hop concert. This is my friend. I was at Chance the Rapper with my daughter this summer. 99% white, I'd say.

Unbelievable. Yeah. That happened with Digital Underground, too, when they came in concert around the same time back then. There was a few groups that, for some reason, they weren't black. See when Big Daddy Kane came and Maestro opened up? That was primarily a black audience. So I didn't understand how it went back from being all black in one artist to, like, all white in another.

We shouldn't be breaking down the world in black and white anyway. People are people, and hip-hop is what unites us. And that's our common denominator. But back then, we had to pay attention to color because color was a significant part of the whole, understanding the whole game. All right, let's bring us back to these concerts. So this is the concert hall at the Masonic Temple,

which is like church and young. Yeah, like we're young. And I remember there's like a Canadian tire across the street or something. I don't think that's there anymore. It's a little city nowaudill City now, man. I used to live at Charles Street in Yonge. This is a long time ago now.

So I knew this stretch because I used to bike to my... I used to work at Galleria Mall and I would do the bike ride like church to Davenport. I had my route every day. I used to go to work at the ghost store. But that's a long time ago now, so the Canadian tire is gone. But let's talk about this so you were the first you were the first promoter in Canada to bring like major rap concerts to this country okay that's slightly inaccurate I think I was the first promoter who did it with consistency as a as a business but I was inspired by seeing some of the shows before I started doing them.

And I don't think anyone made it a business. They more or less did it as a hustle to make money. But they didn't have a long-term vision. When I started doing concerts, I had a vision because I'm a person pleaser. And when you're doing a radio station or doing a show that plays music that nobody else is playing. The kids are going to call up and they're going to want to see these artists, not just to hear them on the radio. So they're like, Ron, can you bring them? I didn't know how to do all of that stuff, but I learned how to do it. And yeah, I started bringing these artists to town with consistency and it became a business.

That's how Ron Nelson Productions was kind of born. And when you do that now, you get a lot more power. That's how Ron Nelson Productions was kind of born. And when you do that now, you get a lot more power. When you have the number one hip hop radio show and you're also the number one street promoter at the time. And eventually you have a recording studio and then you're, you know, going to going going through managing different groups, going into the States and networking with different DJs. I was literally doing a major major hip-hop concert like once every six weeks which is crazy like that kind of a you don't do that but i did it no regrets and uh you could i think it's fair to say the very first major concert was at the

varsity arena where i wrote a few exams by the way at varsity arena yeah Was it Run DMC, Public Enemy, and EPMD? I did that concert because I wanted to be the first promoter to bring a hip-hop concert tour to Canada. It's kind of a weird thing, but that's when I had to go to the bank with my parents and ask them

to help get me a loan. I think we got $75,000 and it was really a mortgage disguised as a loan and the lady told us that at the time but for some reason even though my parents were just like you know blue collar workers we somehow qualified i think a lot of it was because the the bank manager saw the the enthusiasm in me and i think this has opened a lot of doors for you to be honest i think in that the passion that you can't fake that that's you have me and the fire. I think this has opened a lot of doors for you to be honest. I think that the passion, that you can't fake that.

You either have the fire or you don't and I think it's clear you had it from the moment you were, you know, in your high school you had a radio station

and you were booking DJs in your high school. That's what Ryerson saw. That's what the bank saw. But I didn't see it. Like I said, I didn't see this as being work. It was just normal to me.

It's just like calling up your girlfriend and saying, you want to go get some ice cream, you know? This was effortless. But yeah. So that was 87, by the way, when you brought Run DMC, Public Enemy, and EPMD, who we're listening to now, to Varsity Arena. I'm not sure about that.

87 was when I did Public Enemy by themselves for the first time at the concert hall. It was a couple of years after that that I did that concert tour. It was a Run's House tour. So if you find out when Run's House album came out, then whose house? Run's House. That's when we brought him. But again, I had an opportunity to switch EPMD to Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince instead.

That was a tough decision. I didn't know who to bring. But yeah, that show ended up losing around $15,000 when it was all said and done. I'm just throwing some numbers. I was so hot at the time that within a month that money was made back just from

me playing out at the concert hall as the only DJ and stuff like that. It was cool and then I went... This is how naive I was, because I didn't understand numbers at the time. I was really nervous about having all that money, so I went back to Canada Trust. No, it wasn't Canada Trust.

It was Bank of Commerce. And I said, here, the money. I said, can you take this back? And they wouldn't take it back. They said, Mr. Nelson, it's yours to do what you want with. We don't want it back right now. And I scratched my head and I go, I don't understand. Again, I was not a money person.

I was a promoter. I didn't even watch. I just needed money to make things happen. And that's when I realized, hey, if I don't have to give it back, then maybe I can do some things with it. So I ended up using some of it for a deposit on a house that I bought, which is where I put my recording studio. Which we're going to get to in a minute because that's Apache, right?

That's amazing. Apache Studios and Dream Warriors Studios. And I used some of it as well to kind of finance more and more concerts coming to town. So that was that was fluky but you could do a lot with 75 000 back in those days so maestro alluded to the um you were thanked in the liner notes of a boogie down productions uh album yeah they bigged up rod nelson and the the teal posse and same with public enemy as well i'm on the um uh the fear of a black planet if you look on the credits there as well.

So it was kind of cool. And again, back then I didn't make a big thing out of it. It's only now that we look back at history where we say that's an acknowledgement. That's a sign of the time there. It's a marker. So we're going to count those things now. And I'm going to play a little

Eric B. in a rat game here. While we talk about some of the acts that you brought, so we already talked about Public Enemy but Boogie Down Productions, Salt and Peppa, Eric B. and Rakim, you got Ice Cube, Queen Latifah I mean, I've been told, and Joel was telling me about the

rap battles with Mishimi and Queen Latifah, can you tell me a bit about the rap battles at the concert hall? Is it like a Toronto versus New York thing? It's exactly that. Okay, so the whole idea of battles was a myth in Canada. Even though in America, people actually got to saw battles. But we were throwing around the term battles here and there.

But other than seeing the odd breakdancing battles, nobody had really organized a real vocal, MC, DJ battle before in Toronto. And again, I didn't know I'd be the first, but the whole idea was, I'm sitting here saying, you know what, there's no Toronto artists that have a name for themselves, yet there's so much talent. What can we do to promote this talent to the rest of the world? And I thought, why not have them battle against some of these artists that I'm bringing up here anyway? Now, this is something you cannot do in today's time

because you can't pay an artist enough for them to do what these artists did back then. But I was dealing with Kara what these artists did back then but i was dealing with carol lewis and uh uh the agency back then i booked biz marquee and roxanne shantae and a few people in it it wasn't like in their contract they they were told that they're specifically coming up here to battle i kind of set them up in a way right but hip-hop was so raw and real back then that when i said yo you know it's a battle right they go yo that's okay we don't mind let's go you know and and they could if today an artist would say sorry you've got to go back and redo the contract and all this bullshit back then hip-hop was just so real i did not have to force these artists to battle so as far as i was concerned after the battle was done we're going to be remembered now

by the rest of the world but it was an awesome experience like the one of the most thrilling moments in the history of everything i've done is watching those those battle moments where canada goes up against america and we're kicking their asses or they're kicking our asses. But it was anyone who was at that battle will tell you that out of all of their life memories, those probably rank amongst the top five in everything they saw, including modern performance of artists that are dominant today. There's nothing else like it. Tell me, so my oldest daughter is named Michelle,

and since the moment she was born, I've been calling her Mishy Mee. But tell me a little bit about Mishy Mee. Mishy Mee, let me see. In a time when there weren't a lot of good MCs, there weren't a lot of trying MCs, Mishy Mee was there. And the fact that she was female made it even sweeter. The fact that she was beautiful, and she still is, made it even sweeter.

And there was a lot of people at that time who stood behind her because she could rap a little bit. She wasn't even a great rapper in the beginning, but it was guys who are around her now who kind of say, Look, you're more talented than you know. Keep this stuff up. around her now who kind of say, look, you're more talented than you know. Keep this stuff up. So Sunshine Sound Crew, I believe, was already kind of promoting her on the streets and stuff. The only reason that I got to meet a lot of these people, the only reason why I became significant in this whole game was because I got the radio show. If not, I'd just be one of those guys out there, right?

So all these artists came to me. I didn't know Mishy before that. I'd heard radio show. If not, I'd just be, you know, one of those guys out there, right? So all these artists came to me. I didn't know Mishy before that. I'd heard about her. But when she came to me, it was like right away I took a liking to her. I took a liking to her rapping. I took a liking to the fact that she had this competitive edge to her, which she still has today. You know, she looks, just one look at her, she's like,

yo, that girl wants a battle kind of thing, you know? And she had that Jamaicanism to her as well. And I'm from Jamaica, so I can relate to artists who want to put in a little patwa in their patter, but most people could not do it properly. People who are trying, and Americans don't have the same control over patwa that we do up here in Canada. Mishimi had it.

She was able to, with ease and comfort, combine a patwa kind of performance with her regular English patter, and it sounded unique, and that's what made her unique and that's why America took to her because no one else in America was doing it like Mishy and when they saw Mishy they're like yo you know we like that we don't understand what she's saying but we like it And on the heels of Maestro, you know, getting tons of airplay on, but very much music or even like top 40 stations and whatnot. This track too came on the heels of that and got a lot of exposure to Jamaican funk.

Kind of broke Mishimi to the masses in the city at least. Yeah, it did do some damage. I think, again, there was a lot of resistance against the reggae and stuff. So if they can't understand it... I mean, I think Snow was the first one to really get loved despite not being able to understand lyrically what the DJ was saying in the first place from Canada. But Mishy got a lot of resistance

and she still was able to break down barriers. Big up Mishy. Great sounding artist and coming from a time when there was no infrastructure and people will never understand what that means in terms of a

higher level of difficulty for artists back then compared to artists now. You have no one who can master your records to make them sound like an American record. No one who can do the proper artwork with the proper vision. That's why what Joel did was so neat because I don't know what qualified Joel to have that vision that was so American looking, whereas everyone else here did not. No experience whatsoever. No urban vision. Joel had that urban vision.

Do you know Dwight Drummond? Yes. So he's got that cameo early in the Let Your Backbone Slide video. He's one of the guys at the steps when Maestro's wearing the jacket or whatever. He's one of the reporter guys. That's one of my Toronto fun facts that Dwight Drummond, because he was working security

for Electric Circus at the time. Believe it or not. And that's another thing. That is so cool. I never knew that. Yeah, yeah. So Dwight Drummond. Big him up, Dwight.

What's up? I'm going to tell people that story though. True, true story. And of course, Joel always put himself in these videos too. So you can always find a Joel. Look for the Joel cameo. Goldberg cameo.

Like Alfred Hitchcock, you know. Yeah, yeah. Every Alfred Hitchcock movie has an Alfred Hitchcock cameo. Before I do the Dream Warriors, because there's a lot there, I want to just ask you a bit about Rumble and Strong. So tell me a little bit about Rumble and Strong. Well, you know what? I think they're very misunderstood.

Rumble and I spent a lot of time together in the studio. Strong was his DJ. For those who don't know, MC Rumble is a black DJ coming out of Canada from back in these days. And Jamon Strong is a black DJ coming out of Canada from back in these days. And Jamon Strong is a white DJ who was the blackest white DJ you've ever seen. It's kind of an awkward way to put it, but he was just dirty and raw and ghetto. And it was like a perfect fit. It was like this was our Eric B. and rakim kind of thing you know and the thing about rumble and

strong is that rumble like mishi had this incorporation of reggae and patwa into his english and uh rumble as well was also a producer who was addicted to the studio he he does people don't know it but he's he's got all kinds of music under his belt. But seeing Rumblin' Strong was a cool experience because they were regulars at the Fantastic Boys radio show. And they were people who were looked up at and who would mentor other rappers around them. They looked good on the stage. They put on a great stage show. And I think eventually they got signed to at least one or two record labels I know they were some somebody in England had a lot of interest in them

but they put out their own record here which I have two copies of still crazy crazy well this decayed it to the rumble MC song safe which is what I'm actually playing right here when that when I first heard that I thought that was just a killer track like I thought it was going to be much bigger than it ended up being. I was always surprised that this wasn't just a massive worldwide hit because it's got everything you want

in a great single, you would think. But what do I know? Again, it's that resistance against the unknown, right? If it was somebody else with a bigger name for themselves, maybe more people would have paid attention. But we were the kids from Canada,

the unknowns, you know? Plus, we were putting reggae in our hip- attention. But we were the kids from Canada, the unknowns. Plus we were putting reggae in our hip-hop, like what the hell are those guys doing? Now, okay, now to set this up, so you're doing these concerts at the concert hall and there's, I guess like you said, at some point there's actual money showing up, like there's actual revenue that shows

up from these concerts. And you take that money and you build a recording studio in the basement of your Scarborough home. And this is, you mentioned it earlier, you mentioned Apache,

I call it Apache, but you're telling me what, there were two? Okay, so, again, this is a visionary Ron Nelson here. So, Beat Factory Records

was being run by Ivan Berry, who is a brilliant, brilliant man. Again, he was the manager that knew everything about management. And under his auspices were people like Mishy Mee, Kenny Crush and crew, the Dream Warriors. Basically, he had this whole family of upcoming rappers over there. The only problem was everything they were doing was in Pickering. And Pickering was far.

And it meant that the artists had to go in an area that, you know, there was no... Like the TTC doesn't go to Pickering. Exactly. It's not like it is today even. Pickering back then was just a far place, not very accessible. And Ivan as well needed to get more hip-hop into his blood because he came from an R&B background. His main purpose was to promote this group called Street Beat at the time,

which was R&B, poppy R&B. When Ivan got exposed to rap, he fell into it just like I did. He thought it was the most amazing thing, and he abandoned that whole street beat stuff, turned those funky guys into hip-hop producers. The problem, again, they were all the way in Pickering. So after I bought my house and put my studio there, I'm like, Ivan, I think you should close your studio and bring it to Toronto and rent another half of my basement

and make Beat Factory your home there. And he actually listened to me, and that changed their whole stuff. I mean, the Dream Warriors album was created in the basement of my house, in that studio. And two of those tracks on that album are tracks that I did, partly because I was in the right place at the right time. When they were short of material,

they knocked on the studio next door and said, Ron, do you have anything? And I'm like, all right, how about this? How about this? And guess what? Now I'm part of that history as well. All right, we've got to rewind here

because I don't want you to bury the lead here because to me, this is massive and I don't want anyone to have it gloss over or whatnot. But the Dream Warriors album, which I adored

and still listen to all the time, and we're listening to a cut from it right now, wash your face in my sink. But this album was, And Now the Legacy Begins, was recorded in your house. Well, yes. I think at the time they would send stuff to England

for mastering or remixing. But yes, the vocals were done in the basement of 62 Apache Trail. And I mean, I witnessed it all. I was there. I'd see these artists coming in and out every day. I would see them kind of get happy because maybe a publishing check came in for $75,000 and they'd have to figure out how to divide it up between everybody.

I mean, it was just a great thing, yeah. The studio was there and I think one of the best moves that Beat Factory ever made was to get out of Pickering and move into the big city. I think that, I mean, if this album and then now the legacy begins

and we're listening to, I guess the biggest hit on that was probably My Definition with the bossa nova hit on that was probably my definition with the, the boss of Nova going. That was everywhere. But I, I personally, we're going to,

I'm going to play Ludi in a second, but, um, if that was recorded in my house, I wouldn't shut up about it. Like I'd have t-shirts made, you know what I mean? Like in my car on the,

on the side, it would say, you know, and now the legacy begins is recorded in my house. Like that's pretty damn cool. Well, you know, it's,

I, I just feel like lucky to have been associated with that whole movement because personally uh you know king lou was an artist who was very much full of himself every time he saw king lou he would come up to you and be rapping for you be experimenting experimenting with his latest rhymes and he comes from a different place as a rapper so it was it was just beautiful being in that era being in that time and King Lou maximum respect because he didn't follow anybody else's template for being a rapper he was always a little off a

little different and it reflected on this album. And this album was all about timing. And I think it's another example of Canadians not really gravitating around the Dream Warrior sound. This was mostly a fascination from England and Europe and people over there who had a different kind of taste. They were more progressive over there, maybe? Yes. We weren't ready for this? Is that the... Well, they're still more progressive than us today.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I mean, we just lack that ability to recognize quality until after some time goes by and other people recognize it for us. But, yeah.

Let me just play a little Lootie while we're talking Dream Warriors here. I always loved this jam, Lootie. But, and this has got that island,

the island influence and everything. Yeah. Fantastic. But... I was more into Hardcore back. I must say, this album didn't do it for me. And this has got that island, the island influence and everything. Yeah. Fantastic. But. I was more into hardcore back. I must say, this album didn't do it for me.

Was it too poppy for you? It was too England-y. Like, the Visionaire who put that album together targeted a whole different demographic that was not a Canadian demographic. So, it worked over there. But again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but my peers and my friends and my colleagues here, we resisted the album. We like King Loon. We like the Dream Warriors. But this album didn't make us get up and go, yeah, we're more into that aggressive,

hardcore sounding, traditional style rap. And this was so pretty and poppy, it was for another territory. And I say this knowing that the Dream Warriors took me to England with them. When they went on tour, I actually was one of their guests, so I got a chance to go everywhere that they went and saw here and saw there. So I'm not saying that with any disrespect. I actually like people who do not follow the template of others before them. But you got to tell it like it is.

Yeah, or like it was. Right. Now, speaking of, so these three singles from this Dream Warriors album, Wash Your Face in My Sink, My Definition of a Boombastic Jazz Style, and Lootie were, again, like Maestro's Drop the Needle and Let Your Backbone Slide. These things were played on Much Music like crazy. So my question for you, Ron, is how did Much Music help popularize Canadian rap?

Well, they were the only ones really giving a shit and paying attention. I used to get them to present my concerts. Much Music satisfied not just a city, it satisfied a country because when there was no hip-hop outside of Toronto,

kids would gravitate around their TV to watch a half an hour Much Music broadcast that happened only once per week and they did this for years. Much Music and I'll big up people like Michelle Geister, who was always there in the field with her camera. They came to my studio.

They presented my shows. It was a risk to associate yourself with the violence that came with hip hop. We'd read about it in the newspaper. So in terms of corporations like MuchMusic, I think it was risky for them to endorse the things that I was doing, but that's what made them cool. Because when other people didn't do it and played it safe, these guys were more risky.

And it's partly because of the soldiers that they had on the front lines, but they were at pretty well every hip-hop concert that I did, and they had their cameras there, and they were at pretty well every hip-hop concert that I did, and they had their cameras there, and they were fans as well, so I will give a lot of credit to Much Music for helping to move and shake the city, and bring the whole experience to the television. You want to shout out anybody specifically at Much Music who helped to, you know? No, just Michelle, just Michelle Geister. She lives in Jamaica right now,

and I just talked to her the other day, and she's got a lot of footage, but she's like, Ron, Much Music owns all that footage. But now you've got Bell Media, you've got a DOS, so good luck. Yeah, I mean, everybody's looking for footage now from the old school,

because back then we didn't have cameras. We weren't aware of how important it was to record our history back then. We were just banging beats, playing music, dancing, break dancing. But nobody was recording it, which is so unfortunate. Yeah, those vaults, like that old footage stuff that Bell Media controls now.

I know Christopher Ward played nice with them and got access to some stuff because he wrote a book really recently. He was on this show promoting it. This is Live, I think he called it. it was like a book about the his his experience of much music as the first vj but then ed the sock okay oh uh steve kersner had a negative experience with bell media because they i don't know they had some cease and desist he received for using stuff he didn't have permission to use, but from the old Much Music. But yeah. I heard something like, I don't know,

$3,000 for just like 20 seconds of footage or something. It's accessible, and if you want it, you can get it, but somebody's got to pay. Yeah, somebody's got to pay. Much Music will sell it to you, but somebody's got to pay. What's the difference between US and Canadian hip-hop at the time anyways? At the time? YeahS. and Canadian hip-hop at the time anyways? At the time?

Yeah. Well, Canadian hip-hop had no identity. We did not know who we were as people spitting out rhymes. There was a lot of wannabe gangsters in Toronto at the time. We were just people who were fascinated by hip-hop. And what made us unique was that we were so close to America, so close to the 49th parallel. We were literally 90 minutes away from Buffalo and nine hours away from New York.

And that gave us an advantage, I think, over the rest of the world because it was so close yet so far. American hip-hop, too, has always been kind of political and outspoken. I think Canadian hip-hop took a while to become that because at first it was all really about party lyrics and stuff like that. And Canadian hip-hop has a West Indian twang.

I think our culture has somewhat been shaped by a Jamaican influence here more than in New York or in America. And I've gone to America, so I've seen there's a difference between what I call American West Indians there, where America takes your culture from you, whereas in Canada, we're allowed to keep our culture. So we are more like Canadian West Indians instead of West Indian Canadians.

You know, that's a big deal. We're the mosaic, and they're the melting pot, and there's a huge significance. There you go. See, I'm going to start teaching at York University as well. You should. Those big words, man. There you go.

Why did Fantastic Voyage come to an end? And when did it come to an end? I think early 90s. 91? Yeah. DJX was one of my students, so to speak. He was a guy that loved hip-hop. He was a talented DJ.

And there was guys like him and Cyclone 457, Scam, Thrust. There was a whole crew, basically, of people who were 10 years younger than myself who wanted the show and were ready to take it to that next level. The problem is when you are the proprietor of a number one hip-hop radio show and you're also the number one concert promoter at the time, it's hard to do both. You really need to marry one of those things. And it became a case where one day we had a meeting and those guys said, you know, we really want it. And I said, okay, you guys can have it. And not only am I going to give it to you,

but I'm going to eventually leave and switch over to dancehall reggae because that's what I'm really obsessed by at this point in time. Well, yeah, that's what you did, right? That's reggae mania. Want to tell me a bit about the origins of reggae mania and what it is today? Yeah, I'll make a long story short. I mean, I'm attracted to raw, underground musical cultures. So when hip-hop started to become more corporate and more polished and more pretty,

I wasn't as attracted to it at the time. And that's when X and those guys wanted to take it over. So it was good timing. Dancehall reggae, on the other hand, it's uncultivated. And it was then and it still is now it's it's not been embraced by corporate entities because of many things and its stance on on homosexuality the homophobia that's in the business etc etc but um the the the whole dance hall culture to me is unexplored uncharted territory or there's a lot of uncharted territory where you can kind of come in and help fix it.

That's what I thought, but now I know you can't fix it. It's unfixable. It has to remain raw in its elements. But David Kingston was the guy, was the man at CKLN at the time. While I was doing hip-hop, he was the reggae guy. And I listened to his show every single Sunday before they switched to Fridays. I was one of the show's biggest fans. That's one of my first weed-smoking experiences, sitting in the car and locking up all the windows with three of my friends

and we'd listen to the reggae that he was playing. One day he decided that he didn't want to do it anymore and it took everybody by surprise. But I became the person that was given the fill-in opportunity position because when I was doing the hip-hop show, I started using the last Saturday of every month to play reggae. And not just reggae, but dancehall reggae where it was mostly none of that singing stuff. This was lyrically just like hip hop. It was raw DJing. So the station manager and program director said, OK, Ron, we're going to have you fill in for now. But they didn't promise me a show, but I wasn't going to give it back.

After a while, it became reggae mania. And I started trying to do the same thing for the reggae community that I did in hip-hop. I'm still dealing with Reggae Mania today. I'm not at CKLN. It has dissolved. It was taken off the air, but I still have reggaemania.com, which is my baby.

That's what I spend most of my time doing. I am in touch with the rest of the world through my website, and with that, I've been able to use all these new things that comes with modern technology to present a picture that, you know, unlike the hip-hop days, actually has video to it, has photography to it, it has my reviews, et cetera.

So I'm archiving modern history with Reggae Mania, whereas before with the Fantastic Voyage program, we didn't think about archiving anything because we didn't know we were making history. Man, if we can invent a time machine, we've got to go back and just record all that stuff for future archival purposes. Yeah, it's cool, though.

I've had a good time playing music. As a DJ, I started playing out a lot, not just in hip-hop now, but a whole new thing playing for reggae people. And just like with the hip-hop battles, the only thing I do now in promotion

in reggae are sound clashes. And it's just like a battle of the bands, except these are sound systems and they have dub plates. And at the end of the night, only one sound can win, and maybe 10 have begun. So that's what I specialize in promoting now, is promoting reggae sound clashes. Okay, so when you were hosting Reggae Mania on CKLN from, I guess,

93 until that station goes off the air in 2011, what was your reaction to the decision to take away the license from CKLN 88.1? Well, I was on the board of directors at the time. I was probably one of the main people fighting with a bunch of other very talented people who loved CKLN and what it stood for, fighting to keep the station on the air. I think it's an excellent example of absolute power collapsing absolutely.

There was so much internal problems inside the radio station, mostly personnel problems and fighting for power that eventually it was probably something that was in the cards already for that station to go off there. It was the best community radio station in the history of Toronto and probably in the history of Canada. And when I see another one doing a better job, I'll give them the credit. But until now, even CKLN was just a special entity. That's what the listeners will tell you who listened,

and the people who were part of that station will tell you. There was just something magical about that entire family and its outreach. So, yeah, big up the station that was. I lost track of your question, though. No, mainly it was about your reaction reaction to ckln going off the air but it sounds like you surmised that nicely there well i could i could do a step better i mean when it went off the air it was um probably one of the saddest saddest moments of of my life and a lot of other people who were fighting to keep the station on the air it was it was like a trying

time and it was just uh we're still kind of, you know, in shock bite a little bit. And we will always be, because why would you want to kill something that was so beautiful and so important to the community? But that's what happened. The station that took over the frequency in D88, I just read this last week

that they have filed something with the CRTC that they cannot be profitable without a signal boost. Yeah, but they probably knew that coming in. Of course. Yeah, but you still try anyway. 88.1 is always the last station on the left, right? And no matter what territory you're in in North America, it's always 88.1 is usually a community radio station

or something like that. But yeah, they need more power in order to really penetrate the market properly. But I've heard that station. It's not bad. It's not bad. It's not CKLN, but it's not bad. No, it's not CKLN.

And I think it's becoming another 102.1. I'm having trouble personally telling the difference now between the two stations. I used to becoming another 102.1. I'm having trouble personally telling the difference now between the two stations. I used to listen to 102.1. It's the one radio station where, I tell you, I don't know any of the songs when I listen to that station. I'm like, I don't know who those groups are. Chris Shepard used to be on that station and Scott Turner.

I used to hire those guys back in the days. They were some good friends of mine. So I used to listen to it when it was CFNY. And it was New Wave and stuff. I have a lot of these CFNY guys come by for chats. Oh, cool. Scott Turner's been here for example. How about

Ivor Hamilton? Yeah, he's been here a couple times. Twice. Guys like that. I know these guys. He kicked out. Because he's an executive now at, was it Sony? Yeah. BMG and I guess Sony. And I think Scott Turner is programming one of the main web masterminds. The Move, it's called now. Is it The Move?

Yeah. It used to be Flow. Do you ever listen to terrestrial radio anymore? Terrestrial? Like actual, like over the air radio, like The Move or anything like that? You know what? I do some Uber driving, believe it or not. And because of that, I listen to a lot of radio.

But I think right now this is the worst stage in the history of urban radio that we've seen in Toronto. Musically, it's just not happening. There's too much pop that sounds like garbage. I'm having trouble listening to the radio now. I use Spotify most of the time now because I'm fed up of having to listen to garbage. Well, I was going to... It sounds like I'm mean.

It sounds like I'm being mean, but I'm being honest with you. Is radio dead? Because as a means to... Radio is dead. You introduce so many people to music they couldn't access other places and they would hear it for the first time

and then they would dive into the crates and maybe you'd inspire like a maestro. Times have changed. You can't make that history anymore. That's what I'm saying. Things keep moving. Nothing stands still. Nothing stays the same.

So today we live in an age of immediate gratification. People want things on demand. If you want to hear a song by Biggie Smalley, you should be able to do it within 10 seconds. Just look it up on your Spotify and play it. And if there's five people in the car, you'll all be rocking to it when you drive into that club. If you listen to the radio, ain't going to happen. You're going to have people playing stuff for you. The other day, radio used to set the trends. It used to determine the hits, right? We would follow what the radio says. People would tell me, Ron, we used to set the trends. It used to determine the hits, right? We would follow what the radio says.

People would tell me, Ron, we used to listen to your radio show every Friday night so we would know what to buy in the record store. The record stores would call me and say, Ron, what song did you play at 11 o'clock because the man number down here to buy it. That doesn't happen anymore. We don't need radio anymore. We used to say video killed the radio star. Guess what? Social media killed the radio star now because social media is what's kicking it. We get what we want when we want it, and we don't want to hear commercials.

We don't want to hear announcers talk garbage because they're talking garbage anyway. There are no radio stars left in the whole Canadian platform anyway because no one's allowed to really say anything anymore that's controversial because program directors and station managers don't have the freedom to let people speak uncensored opinions out there. I'm not putting things as articulately as I should. No, I get you there. I get you. I come from the old school of radio and to me it's disappointing what there is out there today. There's,

the greatest days of radio are behind us and I'll toot my own horn, I think that I was probably one of the last radio stars in underground radio and after I left the radio, it just,

no one's come along since that i can recognize and say yo that person's fucking shit up we gotta listen to that boy he got something to say or he got something to play everything that's being played now stuff that we've heard no one can play anything first and bust a tune anymore on the radio because the apps with their statistics will tell you what the hits are now right Right. You're right. You're right. Let me close with a statement in question from Joel Goldberg, who's really rooting for his Indians.

I guess they have a game five against the Yankees, and he's a diehard Cleveland fan. Yeah, yeah. They do have a game five, but I want the Yankees to win. See, I can't root for the Yankees. Too many bad AL East memories for my blue chains. Yeah, yeah. All right. Let me read his writing here. What happened in 1994? We were on such an amazing roll, then everything stopped. Why did radio stop supporting Canadian rap? Why did much ghettoize it to Rap City?

And a follow-up, how and when do you think it came back with Choclare and Cardi, etc. or later with Chaos and Drake? A lot to chew on there. I don't know. That's an interesting question. But

if you want to analyze it, you have to look at what sold or primarily what didn't sell. I think Craig Maddox was the man who said that, Ron, after Maestro's record sold, nothing else sold for 20 years. Yeah, right.

Can you believe that? To me, that's an incredible statistic. You go from Let Your Backbone Slide selling whatever, 100,000 singles and I don't know how many albums, but 20 years in Canada's history goes by and nothing's selling. That's a very dark period there. It's a long time.

That will mess with your psyche. It will strip you of your confidence and your belief in yourself. And the record labels, they look at numbers, right? They look for fire starters. They don't want to be the fire starters themselves. They react to whatever happens out there. And if nothing's happening, then they're not reacting. So that's where we saw an era where there were no,

there was probably one person who was really qualified, or okay, two now that I think of it, to actually work with these record labels who for the first time were starting to let black people work those prominent paid positions now instead of the regular white guys that knew rock and roll and didn't know R&B and black music. long as they did so they needed to change the clientele so or or change the uh the staff so that they're a little more street they're a little younger they're a little more hip you know um but the the thing about hip-hop again is that it received a fight from the whole corporate mindset it was not cool to associate yourself with hip-hop for the longest time. So I would say 94 onwards, there was maybe like a gray area in the whole scene moving forward progressively at the speed that it had appeared to be moving with before. And I don't know. I don't know what else to say. The golden years would soon come to an end because the best hip-hop music ended after probably 98, 97, 98. Then it went down from there.

What are your thoughts about who might be the greatest selling, in fact, I'm sure he's the best selling hip-hop artist today, but he's from Toronto and he seems to love Toronto. And what do you think of Drake and his success? And could there have been a Drake today without a DJ Ron Nelson on CKLN back in the day? That question I'll have to leave for the philosophers. I find it kind of interesting that people have to grow up

to kind of make statements like those, to associate so much of the past with the present. We were doing our thing when? In the 80s? That's like 40 years ago, you know? So I don't think I can ever say that if it wasn't for what I did, we wouldn't see a Drake today. I was

so frustrated that there was no Drake's back then you know I would have taken a cardinal even or or a shot clear but there were no stars can you picture a world like that can you picture going into um I don't know what do I think of Drake I think Drake is a perfect representation of a Canadian artist and what a Canadian artist should be he's a very politically correct artist he doesn't pretend to be somebody who's not

and I'm amazed that he's been able to continue doing that he's true to himself and that might be a little corny to some rappers because he's not talking like a bad man or a gangster or a gallus he's actually coming up with lyrics that sounds like they've been written from a a mature young man who's learned a lot about life yet drake is you know he's still maturing he's still learning about life um i think it's amazing that he hasn't shot himself in the foot because he had a lot of opportunities to say

something that is not politically correct or to shake the foundations by by by cussing or or or beating somebody up drake it's a it's it's amazing the things that drake has not done whoever is managing this person or whoever is is forecasting the the future for drake and saying drake you got to do this don't do this don't do that is doing an amazing job because a lot of people screw up when they get stardom when they get opportunity when they're drake is like the biggest thing that Canada has ever seen. And we're not going to even give him the proper credit until years and years and years go by. People right now are taking Drake for granted, right? But like I said, I give him props because he hasn't messed up.

He hasn't pissed off anyone. He hasn't said anything wrong. He's a great sounding rapper. He's got a commercialized sound, but that's okay because I never, ever pictured the day would come where a Canadian boy would be the number one rapper in the world. Not just one year, but the year after that and the year after that. It's a beautiful thing. Canada should be so proud, yet this is where we take things for granted. You know, we don't know how much we should know.

We don't love as much as we should love. So Drake, major props to you, man. If God was going to give us an artist to represent Canada, he gave us the right one. You're a humble man because you deserve more credit than you'll ever give yourself. But in my opinion, there's no Maestro without you. There's no

Cardi without Maestro. There's no Drake without Cardi that you played a role in all of this. Thank you. Thank you. I'll big up CKLN for playing a role because without CKLN I guess I would not be anybody. I would not have been able to make this history. Again, one of the greatest radio stations in the history of radio stations.

I give props to all the people who worked at that station and who was a part of it. And I was very glad to have played my part and to be given an opportunity to represent in Canadian radio from the Ryerson days, from the early 80s. So big up Maestro, Dream Warriors, Mishy, Rumbling Strong, you know, everybody whose lives that I've touched, I would like to say big up. And thank you for returning the love as well because you guys are all great people. And that brings us to the end of our 271st show. You can follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Toronto Mike. Ron is at DJ Ron Nelson our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer propertyinthesix.com is at Brian Gerstein and Paytm is at Paytm Canada

see you all next week Just like mine and it won't go away Cause everything is rose and green Well you've been under my skin for more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears And I don't know what the future can hold