Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Don Landry: Toronto Mike'd #636

Episode Date: May 4, 2020

Mike chats with Don Landry about Pat Marsden, Gord Stellick, getting fired from The Fan 590, the health of the CFL, his work in curling and so much more.

Welcome to episode 636 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Garbage Day. Weekly reminders for garbage, recycling and yard waste pickup. Visit GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike to sign up now. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. The Keitner Group. They love helping buyers find their dream home. Text Toronto Mike to 59559. And our newest sponsor, CDN Technologies, your IT and cybersecurity experts.

I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is Don Landry. Welcome, Don. Mike, how are you? For a second there, you kind of paused and then you said, garbage day. second there when you you kind of paused and then you said garbage day and i thought is he segwaying into me by saying is monday garbage day for toronto mike and that's today's the day i take out the trash and that's you mr landry how good to see you how the hell are you i'm doing all right i'm hanging in uh how about you i see uh is your arm normally blue and bigger than the other arm? It's funny because my kids just got into Smurfs.

Well, the two little ones just discovered a Smurf movie. And anyway, they're blue. I don't know if you know this about the Smurfs. But yeah, I got a blue. This was 70 bucks. It's a wonderful fiberglass cast. I got from St. Joseph's Health Center there in Parkdale. And it's coming off on Wednesday.

So my time is almost up, but it's been, I don't know, five weeks and a bit since I broke my wrist. What'd you do? Don, I can't believe you don't know this. I've been, you obviously are not listening to Toronto Mike. Yeah, no, I know. This is one of those great, you know, when somebody asks you something

that you've already told the story many times, you can forego it if you want. No, no. Long story short is I fell off a bike and I landed on Royal York Road. I'm going to show you something. Just because I was showing somebody else on a Zoom call this morning.

So, uh, this is my helmet. Yeah. And if I show you here, okay. Can you see, can you see that? Okay. So yeah. Like some the impact my head made against rural York road, uh, split my helmet, which is, yeah. So, I don't know if you bike, do you cycle? My wife cycles a lot.

She likes to cycle all around Stratford and, uh, she likes to ask me to come out. I know you, you cycle a lot. So I wouldn't be into it as much as you. And I, I'm kind of reticent when she says,

let's bike downtown and do, you know, our errands and that I don't want to go, but then when I go, right. You know, I have fun but i guess i'm curious do you wear a helmet yeah oh yeah absolutely uh no because because of that

because the bike i have i bought at a bike shop that i don't even know what's there anymore in the beach okay uh in the east beach and i walked down there from my house, purchased the bike, got on it, was literally 30 feet away from the door and caught a streetcar track and went down. Those streetcar tracks are deadly. Yeah. Can I ask, was it wet? Like, was it at all wet or was it dry? Okay. It was dry.

I was just, you know, rookie idiot cycling in Toronto. This is great. I'm free. I can bike everywhere. Boom. Luckily, there was no traffic at the time. And I don't know that there was anyone around to point and laugh. Yeah. Hopefully, they wouldn't laugh at you. I'm impressed you call it the beach.

That's impressive. You've been well-trained. Yes. Because it was beaches for so long, then it was, well, really, it's the beach. And I lived in, do they still call it this, Mike? The Upper Beach, or at least that's what the real estate agent told me it was called when they were selling me the house. This is the Upper Beach. Right, well, how north were you? Can I ask like whereabouts, how north do they go with Upper Beach?

Yeah, I think it goes at least to Girard, but I was south of that. I was a little north of Kingston Road on Glenmount Park Road. Beautiful neighborhood, no doubt. And at the time, shout out to Bill Hayes' wife, Margaret. She's a real estate agent and she is a killer. You wouldn't believe in the real estate. She'd just make money for me at every turn when I did these. She said, this is an area that they're calling the upper beach and it's

starting to rise in value. You can get a good deal now. And I did.. She said, this is an area that they're calling the Upper Beach and it's starting to rise in value. You can get a good deal now. And I did. She's awesome. Bill Hayes is awesome. I haven't met his wife. I'm sure she's awesome. I'll take your word for it. Although there's a conflict of interest because I may also tout the services of the Keitner

Group and Austin Keitner at the Keitner Group. But Bill Hayes, what a great guy. Like, how well do you know Bill? Very well. Very well. Bill and I go back to the fan. I go back further than that with him because I listened to him when he was, you know, a

boss jock at CFTR and I was starting out. I was at CKBB in Barrie and I was listening to everybody on CFTR and wanting to be them and yes, what a power to be them. Yes. What a powerhouse that was. Yeah. You know, Shotgun Tom Rivers, Mike Cooper, Bill Hayes was there. I can go on and on. And then you go over to Chum, Bob McGee, who was a guy who early in my career, I wanted to mimic him. I wanted to be like Bob McGee.

I loved his style. You know, he's still working in this market. Bob is? Yeah. He's the morning show guy at Element FM. Good. That guy should never quit. Never. He's fantastic.

I think he's the long... I think now that... Brian Master just retired from radio and he had been around since I think, I want to say 69. I think that Bob McGee is the longest serving toronto radio dj like the last guy standing who might have been on a mic in the city in the 60s yeah like that's it

because roger ashby although roger ashby's back in some form doing some oldie show so maybe he's back in the running for that uh award but well he had ridiculous run too, didn't he? Roger Ashby, just a fan and a nicer guy you will not meet. I'm sure you'll agree with that. Fortunate to meet someone. And Shotgun Tom Rivers, one of the great highlights of my career, just as the little voice inside me that was a kid who wanted to be a radio jock. At one point when I was doing the morning show at the fan and Tom was filling in at CHFI

and it was during the Olympics he asked me to come in and do a bit with him on the Olympics I'm like I did a bit with shotgun Tom Rivers it was a tiny little thing a little voice and he did most of everything else but I just went that's it I I don't need to do anything else I did that I love Tom Rivers I'm actually working it's kind of neat that I'm working now with Larry Fedorik. Do you know Larry? So Larry worked with Tom Rivers at CFTR, but I believe they also work together, I think at CKFM or maybe I get my... That could be. Yeah. That could be. But Tom was my first favorite morning show host was Tom Rivers. My first favorite morning show host was Tom Rivers. He was excellent.

I mean, I remember him at both CFTR and at Chum. And he used to do, do you remember he did that bit dialing for dollars? There was a thing in Buffalo. They did dialing for dollars where they'd phone out. And if you knew the, do you remember what it was? It was the amount and the count from the top, then you would win. But then they changed it to this movie thing where they were just phoning randomly. And then the guy wouldn't know tom picked up and he would just be rambling about this description

of a movie and then the title would come out and that would be the punch line based on this wonky description that he had done it was great stuff and my understanding is i mean tom was such that he was excellent but he was difficult to manage like so you'd give him these orders and he would kind of do the opposite, maybe on purpose. Like, I don't know how long Tom would last in this current environment. I was going to say, Mike, that would not make him the only person in radio who was ever like that.

But don't you think they're weeding out those people? Like, do you find that how many are left? Go ahead. They are. You know, and that's been going on for a few years, hasn't it? It's been more of a corporate feel, which, you know, is sad. It's too bad. People who are in the industry and started like I did in the 80s

or those who, you know, we were talking about Bill Hayes, who was in, I think, was it the late 60s, Bill? No, it can't be. It's got to be the 70s. It can't be. that's all it's all changed and it was changing even when i was at the fan when rogers bought that we had a last glorious run with telemedia and then um who sold the telemedia sold it to somebody it was a it was a quebec company who couldn't have cared less about the fan 590 and then the great doug Ackhurst was the general manager.

And it was like a tiny little fiefdom within this big corporation. And it was a last gasp and a last hurrah of radio the way we knew it, where it was just feel free to do your thing. The more original, the better. And guys and gals did feel like they could maybe kind of buck the trend a little bit and lock the studio door and play uh shannon by henry gross for 12 straight hours and they would get away with it they would be forgiven for that afterward but that's gone but that's the uh that's personality right like i mean we all i always thought the best part of uh radio

was that it was uh local and live and you had these personalities like i always feel now i know what you're saying nowadays that your radio station is owned by some kind of media company right it's sort of like part it's like a cog in the wheel and it sort of serves to kind of promote other properties maybe television show stuff or maybe sell internet or whatever sell you know phone services whatever so it basically there's no room for that creative freedom to where where i you know i talk a lot to cfny guys right from the david marsden era which you might call the spirit of radio and they'll all tell me about you know they'll all tell me about how David Marsden

basically let you gave you a long leash you know and and let you kind of try different creative things and within reason even play what you want within reason like as long as you adhere to certain standards or whatever so uh do you miss do you miss and you're a younger guy like I don't even know how much of that you got to taste but it it sounds like you got a bit of it at the fan there. Do you miss, do you miss that? are the parameters and you can choose songs within these parameters so it was tightened a little bit and then while i was there in the later 80s that's when i saw my first computer printout of a playlist and uh you know that was problematic for a lot of people they just didn't want to have to deal with that whereas you know where's my personality well you you stuck it in between the song so we just had such great times and playing practical jokes on each other, that sort of thing, because there was the combination of the type of radio that you were doing, the atmosphere of the ownership, and then just being 22, right?

Where you've got all this crazy energy. And so those were some of the best times I ever had when I was starting out, just graduating from Humber College and working in the early days of radio. Not to say that there weren't more. I've had them everywhere. I've had great bosses, great compatriots, and just a ton of fun wherever we've done it. It's just that you're getting constricted a little bit more, and it is a little bit more about corporate messaging and that kind of thing. By the end of it, I was told by my boss at the fan that we all all have to be fans fans of the blue jays that's

that's it that's the way it is and uh that was the first time i'd heard that um and you know it's no secret to anybody that uh that kind of uh corporate control over the airwaves is going on and uh i guess we shouldn't be surprised by that if you're gonna foot the bill for that kind of thing you want the message to be what you want it to be. Yeah, definitely. The days of the WKRP are so long gone now. You know, I almost forgot, Mike. Booger. Booger. That's a great episode. They're all great. They're all great. By the way, thanks for kicking out a jam on volume 10 of FOTM KOTJ. I don't even want to, maybe I'll spoil it because people should hear the song and should hear you talk about it. But you kicked out a Springsteen song.

Yeah, I wasn't sure when you said, just pick any song. Like, it doesn't have to be your favorite. I was, you know, because there's so many songs that I love that I could talk about, but Jungle Land was one that came to mind because I tweeted something about it. And then I thought I'd do you a favor, Mike, because nine and a half minute song, you have to do less work. So I hope you appreciated that part. The nice thing about those F-O-T-M, K-O-T-J is very little me.

That's the one thing for sure. And I enjoy, I will say this to the listenership if Scruff Connors, the ghost of Scruff Connors will let me call people the listenership. By the way, and I know real quick before I forget, because you mentioned CFTR, the guy who took over for

Tom Rivers' mornings on CFTR, the guys, I believe, were Jesse and Gene. That could be. I've lost the thread on that. John Landecker was in there, too. That's before. I think it's at CFTR. Anyway, I think it's Tom Rivers.

Okay. And he gets fired. And I think the afternoon show at that time, I believe, is Jesse and Gene. And Jesse and Gene get mornings. And Jesse and Gene do mornings until they flip to all news. So they get fired when news radio shows up. I don't know what that was, 93 or whatever. But I'm only saying this because my guest tomorrow is Gene Valaitis from Jesse and Gene.

So it's all coming full circle. And I know Gene worked with Scruff Connors on Q107. So back to the list. Now, Mike, will you take up valuable gene time tomorrow by saying my guest yesterday was Don Land? Will you do that? Yes, of course. That's I gotta, I gotta do that. Yeah. Now, you know, that's all, it's all connected like a nice, beautiful puzzle. So the why am I talking to the listenership? Okay. So I've done 11 of these things. They're volumes. And for those who don't know, basically it's 10 listeners or fotms are friends of toronto mic

that could be guests like yourself you've been on before i'll tell everybody about that in a minute it could be a listener could be somebody who came to a tmlx if you're an fotm which is basically anybody's pretty much open to be an fotm all you do is you take your phone did you do it on your phone or your computer so i did it on my computer right because you got the good mic there so good idea so you record yourself anyway i don't care if you got a good mic like don here if you got a just your smartphone or whatever but record yourself for 30 to 60 seconds just talking about a song you love it doesn't have to be your favorite song a song you love and then you email that audio file to me i'm mike at at torontomike.com. And basically I try to drop two a week. So I try to drop it like every Wednesday and every Saturday.

And we're now building volume 12. You're on volume 10. Sean Cullen, do you know the comic Sean Cullen? The brilliant Sean Cullen. He's amazing. That'll be great. He sent in a jam.

Yeah, he's got a jam for uh volume 12 and uh yeah so I'm just encouraging I need people to send in these jams because Don what I'm realizing is I come down into my bunker here yeah where it's the only time I kind of get a a spare moment because the kids never leave like it's crazy up there and I build these episodes with and I listen to people like yourself talking about the songs they love and then I listen to The kids never leave. Like, it's crazy up there. And I build these episodes with, and I listen to people like yourself talking about the songs they love. And then I listen to the songs and I build it.

And I'm being introduced to stuff I didn't know about. I mean, I know Jungle Land, it's been kicked out on other, kick out the jam apps. It's a big jam. But just hearing you talk about it and hearing different music, I absolutely love building these things.

Like, I need people to submit jams so I can keep building these things. So I did people to submit jams so I can keep building these things. So I did a repeat seat. You could have told me I would have picked another song. No, I would, I would never because you're, that's the first time that jungle land was kicked out on an FOTM kick out the

jam episode. But in the past guests like yourself would return to sit here and would kick out their 10 favorite songs of all time. So there's kind of two things going on. Those are kick out. Those are the original kick out the jams episodes. These FOTM kick out the jams have 10 different voices on them. Uh,

right. So a little, a little bit different, but here now, can I ask you a question? Do you have merch for this? Because, and if you did like,

do you have t-shirts and would they say FOTM on the front KOTJ on the back or would you do it vice versa oh I haven't thought about this uh we don't have t-shirts to answer that question uh maybe I should get some t-shirts that's a good idea I think I'd put it on that like I'd put like hashtag FOTM right over like the the chest the breast or whatever on their shirt. I think maybe over the heart maybe. I think I would get it like that. I do have these are magnet oh yeah, you're over here. There's two webcams going on here, believe

it or not. So, that's funny. Yeah, wouldn't let me put the same webcam in two places. Okay, so the Toronto Mike badges here, these are magnets. Sticker, you made these and and they're a good sponsor. And these are handed out at TMLX events, which we get together in person. And I don't know, Don, if you have a crystal ball to tell me when I'll be able to have another one of those.

But it's going to be a while, I'm guessing. Yeah. Well, you could do one as long as everyone everyone's like, how big is your yard? I can't remember a big, you know, or just a street party in front of your house. As long as people are, you know, physically distanced. It's a controversial discussion we're having right now. I always say I'll let when the good doctors and the health experts tell me that I can have a TMLX, then I'll start planning one, probably for the patio of Great Lakes Brewery. Because if you were here, I'd give you a case of beer.

Yeah, well, I will make it in for that one because I've seen it. They look like you're having a lot of fun with those. And Stratford's not that far away. I can make it in. I mean, I've made it in for other things. Right, so that's not clear. You might have bought your bike in the beach,

which I'm going to call beaches just because I'm because I'm going to be that guy. But you're now living in. So when did you when in your life did you relocate to Stratford? Are you in Stratford? down in the upper beach before i met ann and then we bought a house uh at broadview and danforth and lived there for a few years and then in 2013 we came down to stratford and thought we'd try it for a year so we just rented an apartment and but loved it almost immediately and then bought a house after that so we've been in this house for about six years now and sell us on stratford like uh us torontonians like uh you loving it there how are things going over there do love it here love it because it's 30 000 people it's so it's small but it's got enough of a toronto vibe to it particularly in the summer because of the festival like there's a really good culture of uh of entertainers and media people and that kind of thing here and plus i've never

seen a city this size you can call it a town if you want because it's only 30 000 i have never seen a place this size with this many great restaurants it's it's unbelievable and it's because of the stratford festival now we're all going to be suffering because the festival has pretty much canceled its season for this year there's a hope that they might have a few shows toward uh the end of what would have been their season in the fall but it doesn't look that way but that was one of the reasons that we moved down here was we we we had visited here we loved the vibe and we liked going to the festival and thought this might be pretty good if you know on a tuesday we go what do you want to do tonight ah there's nothing on tv hey let's go see a show let's walk over there and see a show and we lived

right across the street from the tom patterson theater for a year and couldn't do just that so uh great restaurants great vibe uh just big enough to be interesting and not so far from toronto that you can't make it in right to do the things that you're not going to find in Stratford. You know, it's a good argument. Any other year, but this one I would argue. Yeah,

for sure. This is a, this is a curve ball, but I actually worry for those small restaurants. Like the, you know, the margins are so thin, like how many of those independent restaurants can survive a summer with no

festival? It's going to be tough. I mean, I, I should, I don't want to throw numbers at somebody who's connected to somebody else who's connected to somebody else said that, you know, this is going to be very difficult. And then, you know, maybe 30, 40% of some of these downtown businesses are not going to be able to make it through this. But, you know, I don't know. We'll cross our fingers.

I'm very interested in this subject because, you know, I always root for these small businesses and these independent operations. And to me, the big difference is whether you own your building or not. Like if you own your building, I think you'll make it. Like the problem is that landlords are still trying to collect, you know, rent. the margins, but the big, and I don't know about Stratford, but the big Toronto rent is impossible to make if you aren't open for business. And even if you're open for business with curbside or pickup, you're probably cruising around at like 30 or 40% your normal or whatever it is. So it's really, we need some kind of program to relieve the relief, rent relief

for these kinds of operations or they're going to be toast. I agree. I completely agree with that. Let's just keep spending money where we can to keep people afloat to make sure that they're healthy enough that when we, you know, poke our noses out on the other side, they're healthy enough to hit the ground, if not at a full sprint, at least at a bit of a jog. And, you know, it's probably the same in every community. In your community where you are, if you can do curbside pickup or delivery from something that's in the neighborhood, that's a smaller business. You do it. We do the same kind of thing here where you just try to throw some money at them where you possibly can. But you're right.

It's not nearly the amount of money that they'd normally be taking in at this time of year. Right. So this is probably a good moment to let people know that Palma Pasta is still open and you can get your authentic Italian food from Palma Pasta and go to palmapasta.com. They're in Mississauga and Oakville and a good family run business like we're talking about and still serving the community with tasty food there. So good on them.

I also need to tell everybody that if you want to hear the first episode of Toronto Mike to feature Don Landry, it's episode 162. And Don, I'll just read the description because it might jog some memories. Hopefully good. But yeah, no, I had a blast when I was there, but it was before picture time. So I have no picture on your lawn with you. I know because I actually was going to use it right like for uh like the live stream and then uh i'm like there isn't one and it was weird because

you're episode 162 so it's must have been like there must have been that very short period that that's like like just before it was mandatory for every guest like i think you were just in did you get can i ask you did you get beer? I did. Okay. I did. I got some quality beer. I think I got two six packs of beer if I remember correctly. Wow. Those are the good old days.

They only give out one six pack now. Well, I think you felt for me because I came in from Stratford that day to do that and a couple of other things. So that might've been, I didn't get a picture, but you could screen grab. Do you screen grab these things now? I suppose I could, but I can grab the zoom stuff. You know, I'm going to be hopeful and say that when things do return to normal, uh, you'll probably, I'll find a day when you're in Toronto for something else. And then I'll bike to you and we'll do a, we'll do a selfie together and then I'll just retroactively add it if that's a cool. And maybe I'll get you some more

beer and some lasagna. Sounds good. Now, the description says, Mike chats with broadcaster Don Landry about his years at the Fan 590, co-hosting the morning show with Pat Marsden and Gord Stelic. Why I should have Vic Rauter on the podcast. By the way, I've had him on twice since then. Vic's been on more than me.

I told you to have him on, and then I'm glad I tied him now at least yeah now you're tied with him make the final yeah of course soon we'll get into all your wonderful impersonations but Vic is a sweetheart and I believe

he's still a regular listener of Toronto Mike so shout out to Vic Router good guy yeah I can tell you. He just signed another deal to do a couple more years of curling. That's very good news. Yeah, I got to talk to you about curling. Cool. I'm going to

talk to you about curling in a bit, for sure. And yeah, to me, Vic is the Bob Cole of curling. Is that fair to say? Yeah, it is. It's completely fair. He's the best that I've ever heard call a curling game. And there are some other greats.

Don Whitman is in there, of course. Rob Fultz does a really great job right now for Sportsnet as well. And the guy who does the Alberta Championships every year for Sportsnet, whose name I can't remember, but he looks a lot like me. He's awesome, but you've got Vic up here. I see what you did there. I'm well below the screen, so I'm down there somewhere, but working on it. When we get to the curling section, I'll confess my ignorance in that sport,

but we'll get to that. So what else? We talked about skinny cable packages. I guess that was the topic of the day. Yeah. So I guess that was happening at the time you visited a skinny cable packages where I don't, I,

today I don't know what that means, but my, my cable packages are pretty fat, but okay. And Gord, here, this time, this dates it Gord Martineau's exit.

And what, so Gord Martineau must have just had his, uh, coming up next modern family moment on, by the way, he's been on the show since then to discuss all that. Gord was quite the guest actually. And what else you said? We talked about what was up with the Argos and curling and much more.

So people should check that out. But, you know, in that we talked about Gord Martineau's exit and you do, in addition to a great Vic Router, you do a great Don Cherry. You've been nice enough to send me some Brian Williams, Don Cherry clips when I had Brian Williams on, etc. But I guess, do you have any thoughts? I know we're not exactly timely here,

but I haven't talked to you. Do you want to share your thoughts on the whole Don Cherry exit from Hockey Night in Canada since you did a great impersonation of him and he loved it? Yeah, well, first and foremost, I love Don as a guy, as a man. He was really great to me. I think I told you the story where I was nervous the first time I met him. He was yelling at me down the hall

and I thought he was mad about the impressions, but he just came up to me and said, way to go, keep it up. That's a lot of fun and then i got the the opportunity to host a couple of shows with him he came in when uh when i think both pat and gourd were on vacation don would come in every once in a while he's got a huge heart he's a wonderful guy to talk to he had a sensational run there uh that it became that one thing that showed him the door, I thought, wasn't right because it wasn't. It was an accrual of many different things. So those who just say, oh, he just does the one thing and says, you people, and he gets hoofed.

It's totally unfair. It's not exactly that. For years, I mean, I wasn't in the room, but would it be a surprise to anybody if I told you that they were probably looking to get out from underneath a very large contract for many, many years? And he gave them a bit of an out. Having said that, I always enjoyed talking with him because the thing that never came across on Coach's Corner, but would come across when you're talking to Don in person. I remember clearly one day he was in the studio and we had a bit of an argument about probably politics on the air, I think. And then during the break, he wanted, he was curious. He wanted to know why I thought that

way, you know, tell me more about this. And he was, you know, I, you know, I just gave him my view. And then I remember him sitting back kind of going, yeah, all right. But now I don't think so, but I hear you. And I thought, well, that was at least pretty good that he would do that, but he would never do that, you know, anywhere anywhere else he would never do it on coach's corner and one morning this this is the kind of guy that I think Don Cherry is the essence of him whatever flaws he has whatever you disagree with and I disagree with a lot with what he had to say one morning he was there he said what are you doing after the show well I'm I'm going to go MC a charity golf tournament. And he was, why didn't you tell me I would have brought stuff. He had like a rock'em sock'em t-shirt on, uh, over a long sleeve t-shirt. And he, the man literally gave me the shirt off

his back, took it off. We found a Sharpie. He signed it. And then after the show, he said, come down to my car. And he opens his trunk and he's got a stick and he signs that. He's a good hearted guy who would do anything for people that he likes, people who are good to him. Loyal, loyal guy. Now, when you guys were talking politics, he didn't call you a left wing pinko, did he? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because for Don, I think I could be a moderate conservative, a little right of a moderate conservative. And he might still think I was a pinko. Those guys scare me. And wait till he finds out that you ride a bicycle around. Biking downtown Stratford, I think would label you a left wing pinko. Yeah, and I go to the theater, too. Oh, I do these episodes on Fridays with Stu Stone and Cam Gordon. They're like fun pandemic Fridays.

And we just played. There was like this Rock'em Sock'em. It's almost like EDM. I don't know. It's techno music with BKS. And Don's kind of not kind of rapping in it kind of but he the big refrain is let's go let's go and i just played that and it was like just just such a throwback i have a question or a comment i guess it's both

from a guy named rodriguez and this is via twitter and he says, can you ask Don Landry why him and Pat Marsden were the greatest sports radio duo ever and why no one has been better since? That reminds me of that Simpsons episode. Do you remember? Oh, with Mr. Burns at the Three-Eyed Fish? Is this the Three-Eyed Fish lunch or dinner or no?

Yeah, it's that one. And thenisa has given the card what does it say your campaign seems to be a runaway freight train why are you so popular exactly his answer is oh i didn't expect a charged political debate yeah that's a great by the way great episode one of the i'd say that's a top 10 episode but uh rodriguez threw in a hashtag at the end thanks so take a moment to soak this in. And Rodriguez, I did some background checking. He's not you.

I want people to know this isn't a Don Landry burner account. But talk about, and you did this in the first time you visit, but do it again. What the heck? Talk about working with Pat Marsden and that experience. And do people still come up to you and say that was like their favorite fan 590 morning show? Yeah,

they do. And some will come up to me and say their favorite show was, was Gord and I, and then still others will come up and say, yeah, it was too bad Derringer left. I really liked him with Marston. So I get all of it.

Right. Right. But people are, are nice about it and they're complimentary and oh I just found like I've got a box filled with cds and cassettes and digital audio tapes remember dats those little tapes sure yeah got those things in the because we've all got extra time so searching through I've got all these comedy bits that Jeff Samet and I did. And then I found Pat Marsden's final show, all four hours on CD.

Wow. So I think what I'm going to do as soon as I can figure it out, because I'm not quite so adept at this stuff as say you are, or your friends, I'll try and put it on my website or on YouTube or something like that. But it's all there. I did save one of the CDs because it it wouldn't play and i'm oh no no no no i need this is the last hour i think it's got brian mulrooney on it and people like that

and it does but i was able to save that cd somehow and uh so i think yeah in the next uh you know a few days or next couple of weeks i'll probably put that up okay so ripping uh is it it's a cd right so ripping that to mp3 is going to be super easy like i actually think you could do it with itunes like i think so i think you'll find it very easy to rip that to mp3 and then if you have you know trouble at any point if you just share it with me i'll host it and send you the link like i mean oh okay you know i that's the kind of thing i would throw onto the feed like and say courtesy of don landry, here's the last hour of Pat Marsden on the fan. Because I think that's important to, like, archive and share with the masses.

Like, I would love to help you share that. I think a lot of fans of Pat's would love to hear that again. And I've listened to a lot of it on a CD. Well, I've got this great old Mac from about 2007. So you can stick the CD in the side of it. Yeah. So if I can marry it to newer software to put it on YouTube. I think iTunes, honestly, I can even walk you through it.

But I think in that old Mac, which has the CD-ROM drive, which is great. I have a 2011 MacBook to my right now, which I keep around for that same reason. I can still stick a CD in it and play it or a DVD. So ripping that to audio file will be easy, I believe, using iTunes, for example. And then sharing it with me will be easy using whatever, Google Drive or Dropbox or whatever. And then I'll host it and then we'll share it. Like, let's do it. You know what I think, Mike?

I think this easily, this last two minutes is the highlight of this whole conversation, don't you? For people, technical advice, questions. This is the stuff. See, this is the highlight of this whole conversation. Don't you, for people, technical advice, questions. This is the stuff. See, this is the difference. I believe this is, and I never worked in radio like yourself, so I don't have any of the brainwashing

that radio program directors might've done. So I come at this completely without any radio background, just sort of like feeding myself. I actually, that last two minutes, I know you're doing a joke there. I actually think that is the stuff, man. That's the gold.

That behind the scenes, how the sausage is made, the real talk stuff that happens that you would never hear on a traditional terrestrial radio show. Yeah, and I don't mind it either. I hope you didn't take it as an insult. I think it's funny and because I go back to, you know, my days of the fan when, with Nelson Millman, he had a number of things that he would constantly say to me, but once in a while after a show, we would walk in and he would go one segment. I'm just asking for one segment where you have a beginning,

a middle and an end to the same thing. If you don't mind. Oh yeah. No, we'll, we'll, we'll try. We'll, we'll work on that. I wonder what, although nelson's been on the show and i know he does like toronto mike i was gonna make a crack about i wonder what he'd think of this but i actually think he likes this so uh yeah i

think he does too he uh yeah you should have him on yeah he's got a million no he's been on probably no but i mean more oh more okay yeah because i. Because I already put him through the, you know, asked him all those questions. By the way, you know who was on last week? And it's interesting in the history of the fan. We talk about the morning show history of the fan. And, you know, you recite all the names. Was Mike Inglis the first morning show host? Yes, he was.

I did not work with him. I was still, I might have been in Barry at the time, but I also worked in London and and at the fan at the same time but i was only part-time but he was the first morning show host before he went didn't he go to miami to yeah he does he yeah exactly like so he's done he went uh to warmer climbs and it's done quite well for himself but remind me i want to get it to uh you and so help me with the chronicle. Do you know who came after Inglis? Like, is it Bob McCowan? Was he the morning show host?

Do you remember? He was for a short period of time, but I don't remember when. I know Mike Richards was in there. Yes, yes. The Derringer show had people like Jim Lang and Mike Richards were kind of like, and Craig Venn and people like that. But it was the Derringer show. Right.

So Derringer comes in with, works with Marsden, right? And then Derringer goes back to, does he go from 590 to Q107? Sort of. I'll never forget the day. I mean, because I was doing the morning updates. Ken Daniels had left to go to Detroit to do the Red Wings. I replaced him as the morning sportscaster, and Derringer and Marston did their thing.

Luckily for me, whenever one of them went on vacation, the other guy was like, let's just solidify who co-hosts are, and we'll make it dawn. So whenever Pat went on vacation i was in with john and vice versa and then what 2000 was it january early february i'm you know i've just done my nine o'clock sports update they're uh derringer and marston finish i'm typing away and all of a sudden coming around the corner it's john and he just goes pally i just want to let you know i went upstairs and i quit it's been real nice working with you and he shakes my hand and he just goes, Pally, I just want to let you know I went upstairs and I quit. It's been real nice working with you. And he shakes my hand

and he's gone. And I'm like, what the hell? 30 seconds later, maybe 40, Nelson comes around the corner, puts his hand on the divider and goes, you're in tomorrow. And that was it. So that's Derringer leaving

to be the afternoon drive guy at Q107, eventually replacing Howard Stern. Yeah. But he had to take, if I remember, he had a no-compete. I think he had to wait, what was it, a good eight or nine months or something before that happened. Quick, because I have to promote tomorrow's episode again,

to tell you that Howard Stern replaced Jesse and Gene on Q107. So it's back to Gene. And I'm pulling this up. That's for you. This is the talk and baseball version for the Blue Jays that was done on the 10th anniversary of the Blue Jays. And now I hold it up for the other camera.

And I only show you that because Ken Daniels found this in his storage and mailed it to me. Now who's singing that? It's still Cashman. Oh, yeah? Yeah. So there's new lyrics, obviously.

But Terry Cashman sings it, and he wrote the new lyrics. And it's all about the Js. They talk about whatever, Barfield, Bell, Mosby, the whole stuff is in here. That's amazing. Now, wasn't OK Blue J sung by Keith Hampshire? Yes, sir. F-O-T-N,ith hampshire yes absolutely yep i could have picked a keith hampshire song for if you have me on again to kick out a jam i might pick he did some daytime nighttime yep come on that was an outstanding

i like that guy because not only does he have that whole 70s thing going on uh not only the cover of first cut is the deepest but you mentioned daytime nighttime and all that stuff and not and then he has the blue jay song but he before all that he's on uh like pirate radio in the uk like radio caroline like that's cool man he's got an amazing history to him he absolutely doesn't he was huge in the 70s he may have done i'd have to ask him uh or maybe you already know i think he did a beer jingle too didn't he do uh hands across this country reach for the blue i might be wrong on that but yeah it's all blurred

in now but you might be right you might be wrong we'll have to do some further investigation but when marsden retires they just they just put uh gordonelic in the spot. And then you get the... And you're right. I mean, I had a commute back then. So I listened to a lot more radio back then. But I would often flip around and I would check out Landry and Stelic. And I really liked your rapport. And I enjoyed the comedic bits.

And I really enjoyed that show you did with Gord Stelic. It was a very different feel, right? I mean, Pat and I were bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And we naturally had that, you know, and then Gord is not a guy who wants to do that. I'm not super fond of it myself. I can, you know, you can get me going. Pat did. How did it get me going? If you wanted that kind of a segment, right. Uh, and so we just kind of went a different way. And I remember when, you know, in the, for the first little while there, I, there was no shortage of people who said said why can't you do it like you did before why don't you just you know that was get in there again do that stuff but we just we didn't have that kind

of relationship no i can't imagine gourd being that way like gourd yeah doesn't have that in his dna i don't think yeah i don't think so. I mean, he'll argue the toss, but he doesn't really want to. He's not into it for 100%. I have to absolutely win this plot of land here and now. This is the hill I die on, the way Marsden did and the way I do sometimes. Again, Pat could really bring that out in me and we would have some real good set-tos. Now, I started all this tangent by saying my guess last week so because you guys uh can you tell me remind me a little bit about like when you guys were let go to me that was one of the

moments we look at in the fan 590 history where with hindsight being 2020 we look at it and say that was a mistake like they did this twice in my this is me talking as a listener and a fan unaffiliated with them at all but But I think you guys being removed for you, the person who took over for you, who we'll talk about in a moment. And, uh, I would also argue that when Brady and Walker are removed and then replaced

with Dean Blundell, like these are two moments I look at, which I think are interesting missteps in my humble opinion. But when you're let go, it's, although there's a more, there is a, there's a summer of Jeff Lumby,

who's also an FOTM and he's like a fill in for the summer. And then they bring in Andrew Crystal. Andrew Crystal was my guest last week. And I'll let, that episode has been very controversial. I'm going to assume you haven't listened. And I get a lot of notes. I'm getting a lot of notes about Crystal's behavior on this episode.

Let's just put it that way. There's a teaser for you. And it's interesting because that was recorded one day and then the next day I did an episode of Steve and Paige and both episodes have been really getting a lot of feedback and engagements, but completely opposite. I'm the same guy doing these things and the Crystal episode is getting one lot of feedback and engagements, but completely opposite. I'm the same guy doing these things. And the Crystal episode is getting one type of review, and the Page episode is getting

the polar opposite. But I guess I'm curious if you can bring us back to that moment when you're told your services are no longer required with Gord Stelic. I don't want to bring back any PTSD or anything, but can you share? No, it's fine. I, you know, I, I saw it coming for a while. Um, Gord didn't, it, uh, it took him by surprise. And I remember him being pretty hurt that day where I, I remember sitting, you know, in Don Collins office, you know, on the couch, just, you know, kind of relaxed. I was just like one arm up on the edge, you know, I know what's happening because when you are five minutes away from the end of your show and the atmosphere that we had been in for months before that, you know, and the, the PD comes in, says something.

And then Jeff Samet just does as well. He does this. He goes like, so he's looking sideways and then he just goes like that. I go, okay, this today's the day I guess today's the day. And I, and I was right because a few months or weeks before i had gone into collins's office and said uh he was mad at me because i do you remember when mike wilner was this is going to be a whole thing now no do i know this is what i like go ahead he was suspended do you remember that of course suspended of course so uh i phoned collins that weekend and we had it out a little

bit and then he said i i wouldn't expect you to talk about this monday uh and i did and i you know i backed mike willner i didn't think it was a good decision he hauled me into his office i got sanctioned i got an official letter of you know you went against what i said when i argued that he hadn't been clear that I shouldn't talk about it. And how could I not? Right, Mike? I mean, everybody was talking about that. How could we go through our morning show and not mention that? So and I was honest about it and I thought it was a bad decision. After all of that, you know, I said, so we cool now? We got through that. And he went, yeah, we're cool. And I said, well, that's good because, you know, my contract's up in about six weeks.

So, you know, where are we on that? And he went, I haven't even thought about that. That was the day I knew I was done, right? So every day for about six weeks or two months, I was walking in there like dead man walking. It's today, the day is today, the day. It was pretty miserable. is today the day is today the day it was pretty miserable um so it was there was kind of a relief when it happened in a way uh although it shouldn't have happened i mean in hindsight the ratings came out gordon i scored the highest rating the morning show had ever seen up to that point and we were

already gone it was i think it was the salary dump i think think it was a new guy coming in saying, I'll just put my stamp on it so the morning show goes and Mike Hogan goes and Rick Ralph, who was our morning sportscaster, they're all gone. We'll just, we'll change things up. Wow. Okay. So, so many thoughts there. But one is that we talked off the top, we talked about the Tom Rivers, right?

We talked about, so, you know, you would tell Tom not to do something and then he would do it just, and then eventually he had a longer leash back then, but eventually he'd get fired for not obeying orders or whatever, like being a rebel. Now, in your state, this is interesting

because we just had, prior to COVID-19, if people can remember before the pandemic, we had, there was a big change on the Fan 590 Morning Show. They removed Ashley Docking from the Fan 590 Morning Show. I got so many notes from people saying they never mentioned she was gone. I got all these notes that it was never brought up that she wasn't there. It was like she never existed. People found that disingenuous.

I've had Scott McArthur on the show, and he was great and had a great conversation but i'm guessing maybe and this is all completely a guess speculation that there must have been some kind of directive to don't talk about that like this is just my i would speculate that must be the reason it was never discussed. But there wasn't. It's not on record. What I had was, as I said, that weekend, a conversation with Collins about it. And I try to remember, at no time did he say, you will not talk about this. I remember him clearly saying, I don't think it's really newsworthy for people.

I don't think they want to hear about that. So my message was, he'd rather I didn't talk about it. Right. Um, but he'd already been, you know, crappy to me, you know, we, we weren't getting along. So, you know, part of it is me just going, you know what, well, really honestly, Mike, like the driving force me was, this is a bad decision. This is a wrong decision. This shouldn't have happened. Mike should have been treated much better than this. Right. So that was my driving force. Will I deny that there was an underlying current of,

yeah, I don't like this new program. He's a jerk to me. So I'm not going to deny that. That probably helped fuel it. But the main impetus for me was this guy shouldn't have been suspended. It shouldn't have happened this way. It's embarrassing for him. It's a terrible thing.

So I went to bat for him and, you know, immediately, uh, got sanctioned for it. Yeah. And when I was referring to the, uh,

directive not to talk about it, uh, I wasn't suggesting you were told not to talk about Wilner. I was thinking, probably speculating that maybe they were told, don't talk about Ashley docking, not being on the morning show anymore. That's what I was.

Yeah. Just to clarify that. But for your situation, that does suck. And I do know that Docky not being on the morning show anymore. Just to clarify that. But for your situation, that does suck. I do know that I've had Wilner on the show several times and we've talked about it. He was never ever explicitly told why he was suspended. He tells me it was never

ever told. You can draw your lines and we all know why, I suppose, but it was never actually stated. It's just go home, basically. It was a moment, though, wasn't it? That says the tail, the dog now is the Blue Jays, right? And the sports reporters are the tail, not the other way. So we're going to go this way.

It's all going to trickle down through these corporate levels. And again, I have some understanding of that on a certain level. I get that you want to have things organized. You want to put out the best possible impulses you can for your, all of the products together. So you can sell cell phones and data packages. That's what it's all about in the end. So it's, it's, it's too bad, but I mean, you've got to make decisions within that framework that still makes sense. And I didn't think that one made sense. I would agree with you. Was there any schodenfreude? I have to speak German to you now. Any schodenfreude at all based on the fact

that not only was Andrew Crystal poorly received by listeners, but he didn't last very long, like four months or something. Didn't last very long and he was turfed. Was there any sense of like, aha, like you booted us for this and people are resoundingly rejecting this. Not that this means you come back or anything.

That's only Greg Brady can do that. But was there any sense of schodenfreude that the show that replaced you was a you know a failure well not personally uh i didn't know i've never met andrew crystal so i didn't have anything personal against him um i'm trying to remember because that's a while ago now i i i can't remember how i felt but i'm sure i felt somewhat you know happy about it or relieved that the the next big idea for that show didn't come in and kick the snot out of us when it came to ratings like had he gone in there and had like a 9.5 or something three points better than us i would have went on geez that stings that sucks sucks. So I think that would have been my feeling about it.

And there was frustration, you know, because of the way it happened. There was frustration after. There was frustration that I couldn't get traction at TSN radio when it came on. I went through a period of, I think, it was kind of bleak for me. And I didn't know which way I was going to turn and how I was going to go. So yeah, based on the picture I'm painting, I probably felt somewhat happy about that, that they were struggling without Gordon and I. I'm just speaking as a human being that if somebody said, we're firing you because we think this person's going to be

better and get us more money and bigger ratings. And then four months later, that person was walked out for delivering less than you did. There would be, I would feel some sense of pleasure from that, not rooting for his failure so much as being glad that the grass wasn't greener. I think generally a happiness that it's not so easy to replace us. It's not as easy as you thought. And there were morning shows that went on that I think met, maybe even surpassed the ratings Gordon and I had. And you mentioned Greg Brady and who was this?

Andrew Walker. And Andrew Walker. I think they probably had a period where they matched us and maybe did it even a little bit better. But that took a while. So that was the satisfying part was, and probably for me too, you know, because everyone has this little, how long can I get away with doing this? You know, why do they have me in here? Your little voice sometimes does that.

So for me, deep down inside, it probably was helpful that it wasn't really that easy to replace it so quickly. And it is interesting because you're right. There was at least there was one book. And I know these books are all like they just baffle me because it's such a small sample size and they extrapolate. And then there's these big differences from book to book. And anyway, don't get me started. But it's the best system we have. And, you know, you mentioned Brady and Walker walker who had a uh kind of yeah you're

right they were the next show it took many many years to finally kind of get to where you and were at and then shortly thereafter they're they're turfed like uh well walk turfed is the wrong word because they're actually moved to one o'clock uh walker was never turfed brady was sent home for a while but that's a whole different story. But I know, so turfed is the wrong word, but they were removed to bring in the next big show, which was going to get them the 14 share, whatever. Yeah, right. Dean Blundell.

And although it got a longer run than Crystal, it didn't get, you know, it was not long before they realized this isn't working. So, so kind of the same. So it seems to me, again, I'm not sure if it's different managers or not, but once they get it right, once they get something, some momentum, and they get something that people are digging on the Fan 590 Morning Show, they blow it up. Well, and I think, you know, you don't get as much time to build something as you used to.

I was super fortunate because look at Derringer and Marson. That was a big deal show. And anybody coming in after John was going to have a rough ride. And, you know, nevermind that it was me. I wasn't, you know, a super big, well-known veteran of sports radio. I got lucky in a couple of ways. One, Nelson Millman was always very good to me and saw something in me early and said, I'm bringing this guy along.

Two, that Pat Morrison. Look, if Pat doesn't say, yeah, put this guy in, that's fine. I never get that job. But for the longest time I got, you know, you suck. You're not Derringer. You'll never be him. Why are you trying? Don't bother.

Blah, blah, blah. But there was patience there, And it took a little while, you know, a good part of six, eight, a year, you know, before we started to get a little bit of traction there. And mostly it was because of Pat Morrison. And then it built from there. These days, you don't quite get so long, do you? I mean, there have to be some seeds of hope in there early that, you know, some growth. Otherwise, program directors are going to pull the pin on you pretty quickly. Which is part of the problem, I think, is that they pull these pins so quickly. And not that I listened because I lost my commute.

So I don't hear nearly as much radio. But the 102.1, they bring in a new show from Vancouver. A brother-sister team are flowing out here, relocated. They're now the morning show. And one year later, they're showing the door for a new show. And it doesn't seem like radio companies are willing to give shows enough time to do their thing and gain an audience. It just doesn't sound like enough time to me.

Yeah, and I think there's an affliction that goes beyond radio, beyond broadcasting. It just goes to business in general and has for many, many years, which is there doesn't seem to be a lot of satisfaction with healthy, good profit, healthy, decent. It's got to be more, grow harder, kill the competition. You've got to have huge amounts of growth, whether it's in listenership or in bottom line profit. And if you're only doing half decently, that's just not good enough. We need more, more, more,

more, more. And again, I think that goes across lines to all kinds of big companies now. That's the way they look at it. Okay. I'm going to talk to you in a moment about CF big companies now. That's the way they look at it. Okay, I'm going to talk to you in a moment about CFL and curling. That's coming up next. But I do want to encourage you, and I don't know if this is available for Stratford, but I encourage you to sign up. It'll tell you if it's not available yet. So everybody should go to GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike.

Garbage Day ends the guesswork related to the collection of waste and recycling and subscribers don't have to worry about missing a collection or trying to figure out what bin to put out, or is this delayed due to COVID-19 or holiday? Is this the day my yard waste gets picked up or the Christmas tree, whatever. So if you go to garbage day.com slash Toronto Mike, people are telling me they're digging the service and sign up for it right now. It's really easy. I would appreciate it. And you'll thank me later. And I also want to welcome CDN technologies, the newest sponsor of Toronto Mike. If you're working from

home, like so many people, my wife is upstairs trying to work from home. Although I don't know if the four year old and the six year old are making it easy on her. Cause I'm down talking to my buddy, Don Landry here. But if you want tips on setting up a safe work-from-home network, go to cdntechnologies.com slash WFH. WFH, of course, stands for work-from-home, but you already know that. And if you need any immediate IT needs, just reach out to cdntechnologies.com

IT needs, just reach out to cdntechnologies.com at 905-542-9759. Tell them Toronto Mike sent you. 905-542-9759. Okay, Don, last we talked, I believe you were a PA announcer for the Toronto Argonauts. I was. For six seasons, I did that. Yeah. And why did you stop doing that?

A number of reasons, I think. One was the commute. You know, it's two hours to go in, two hours to come out. And you're spending another four or five hours at the stadium. And I just wanted the option of, do I feel like going to the game today or not? I don't really. I'll watch it on TV. And I wanted also to return to the option of sitting in the stands

and drinking beer, you know, and just enjoying it as a fan. That was part of it. And there were some other reasons too, but they were smaller, but that's basically it. And, and I just, I did genuinely feel like that's time for another voice. Maybe, maybe somebody else. I mean, how long do you do this? I know some great PA announcers can do it and feel great about it for what 20 25 years perhaps but I just thought yeah now's the time get back buy a beer uh sit in the stands Mike Gregotsky who's also a big Argos fan he says uh well he might be actually I shouldn't say that because he's buddy of a guy named Jake the Snake who all he does is hand out buttons that say Argos suck

he's a Thai cat guy so I's a Thai cat guy, yeah. So I don't know if Grigoski, I shouldn't say that. Grigoski's a CFL fan though, I can say that. And he says, can you ask Don if he thinks the CFL can survive if it doesn't play a season this year? He hopes it does, but what do you think? Yeah, I'm hopeful we get at least half a season.

You know, maybe they can start around the time the nfl traditionally does and play half a year and get a great cup in uh for a number of reasons what well the most important reason is i love the league so much and i just enjoy it but i also make some money writing for the canadian football league so i'd like to have that job back if at all possible um what we've heard from the commissioner is it will be very difficult for them to survive without some kind of government intervention, financially speaking, if they lose the entire season. He didn't go so far as to say, no season, we're finished.

But look, we all see what we see. The Canadian Football League is not a behemoth. It doesn't have nearly the money of, never mind the NFL or Major League Baseball, it doesn't have the NHL money. It doesn't have any of that. It's a much more difficult proposition for it to get by during this pandemic. It's like a lot of other businesses in this time. The struggle that we talked about earlier for small businesses, it's going to be real lot of other businesses in this time the struggle that we talked about

earlier for small businesses it's going to be real for the canadian football league too so it's uh there's a there's a real possibility that this league might uh shut the lights out completely if they don't play an entire season and don't get some kind of a loan to bridge the bad times but i expect i don't necessarily expect there'll be a half a season, but I do expect there's going to be some kind of bridge financing that'll come in with some kind of a deal with the government that'll allow them to get going again next year if they lose this entire season. That's my hunch. Okay. So I don't follow as closely as you do, obviously. You write about it. So you're a journalist in the CFL world here,

but I do know that the biggest financial injection that the CFL gets is the Bell Media television contract from TSN Games. Now, the first dumb question I have, and maybe it's obvious, maybe it's not, is it true that I guess if there's no games, there's no money from Bell Media to the CFL? Is that how this deal works? It's a dumb question. I would suppose so. I mean, I haven't seen the deal myself. I haven't heard anyone talk about it.

But I don't know why anyone would pay money for something they're not getting. No, that's what I think. And then I wonder, well, sometimes these things are written funny. Like, you know, I don't know. Like, I'm not a, I haven't seen the contract either. Sometimes there's a line in there that if act of God or something prevents the season from happening, no money or whatever. But I, so I guess that's everything, right? So if there's, because that's, that's everything for the CFL is that TSN contract.

And then I always wonder, like, with the TSN, and i know uh i know you don't speak you don't work for tsn or speak on behalf of tsn but i always wonder like can they why would they ever let the cfl fail considering uh the viewership that that tsn gets from cfl games like i feel good point one that i had not considered um i asked the good questions here, Don. Yeah, it is. It's a good question because they do very well by the Canadian Football League. The numbers are good. They get good advertising dollars.

Well, you could argue that is everything for the CFL because, you know, I mean, I'm sure in Regina they'd argue differently. But here in Toronto, it's all about television viewership for TSN. It is. It's about corporate dollars. And the league has been doing pretty well in that regard for the last many years now. The corporate dollars, the central dollars have been pretty good. The TV numbers have remained good. They've gone down a little bit and then back up again.

That Argo Grey Cup victory in 2017 I think had 10 million uh different viewers and averaged four and a half million those are really good numbers and so you can make money off of that kind of thing so I never thought of it from the angle of well TSN has put so much time effort and money into this they've built a product that is almost as much theirs as it is the Canadian football league they certainly wouldn't want to see it go. By the same token, Bell Media has not shown to me that it's the kind of corporation that doesn't care about profit margin. So you've got to think that in the upper chambers somewhere,

somebody would be going, how much do we want to kiss off in order? But Don, Don. You have to have people around that table, Mike, don't you, that have a longer vision, that can see down the road a bit. That CFL jewel is such a key part of the TSN crown since they

lost the big NHL deal to Rodgers, etc. They never had baseball's Rodgers. It's really the football, both NFL and CFL are massive to TSN. It's just the money we're talking here, because we're not talking about a league where each player is making, you know, you know, 8 million bucks or whatever. So the, you can probably carry the CFL.

Well, I'm pretty sure the CFL could be carried on the TSN contract. Like, right. Cause that's how significant. they don't they say no uh that it's not it wouldn't be enough money because they've asked for what to start the 30 million would help them get through this crunch time do you think they should get that yeah of course i do of course i do. Of course I do. Does that surprise you? I mean, I love this league maybe more than anything in the world of sports. So I want it to survive. So that comes from my heart, from my head. Everything that we've just talked about, yeah, I think not a grant. It shouldn't be $150 million.

Here you go. Don't worry about it. If some of it is repaid cash for cash, I'm fine with it. If some of it is in kind, I'm fine with it if some of it is in kind I'm fine with that too because there's value in that that's how this whole industry exists it's how you exist you know there's value in the product that you put out there you have sponsors you get money it's the same thing with the Canadian Football League they can offer the government of Canada value in kind we just talked about 10 million people watching the Grey Cup,

the festivals that are huge, the regular season TV numbers that are pretty good. So they can come up with, and let's face it, the government is not still the biggest advertiser we have in this country, and it has been for a long time. Plus, I don't think the CFL should be treated any differently than any other business that needs some help through this unless that business is just so gargantuan and you'd like them to be honest about it yeah we

can get by without government money we're fine right the nhl is not going to come looking for government well they will they will mike they will come looking for government money the nfl will look for government money in the united states there's no doubt about it the nba will for the major league because they all if you can get the money, you will get the money, but they don't need it like the Canadian football league. We're not talking about if, if the NHL doesn't get some government money, it will cease to exist. You're not, you're not going to hear that conversation. You will with the Canadian football league, which makes it like the restaurants we were talking about earlier. And like the bigger companies that aren't so big that they have a giant war chest and the

cfl is important to me as a person so my short answer absolutely it should but i can also make the argument as to why it should stick around economically for different cities it feels like those dollars were maybe i've been jaded by seeing billions being tossed around here and there but the dollars you're talking about for cfl seems so paltry to me. It feels to me like, I don't know, Tim Hortons cuts a check and saves the season because there's some flagship thing of the podcast. I don't know. To be determined, but I just, you know,

it all comes down to why would, I believe it all comes down to why would Bell Media and all those sponsors like Tim Hortons ever let this television product fail? Anyways, we'll find out. And I want to talk about curling for sure. You do? Do you really?

Do you though? Firstly, tell us exactly what you're doing when there is curling going on what are you doing for curling um well i i do some work for curling canada i do write for some of the programs that they have for major events i every year for the last seven i guess it is or eight i've been lucky enough to go out uh to uh do the vic router kind of thing for sports net at the Alberta men's and women's championships. I've had a blast doing that. Truth be known, if I could do more of that, I would in a heartbeat.

I love being at curling events. I love the players. I love the game. I love broadcasting it. So, you know, if there's more of that in my future, I, that'd be great. I got lucky about a year and a half ago because the producer who hired me at Sportsnet, uh, Curtis Saville knows, uh, a woman by the name of Carla Piper, who's, uh, who's based out of Calgary and she's run events at various Olympics and Pan Am games and things like that. And I got a call from her, uh, a year ago, two years ago, this August

saying, yeah, we're doing some events called the curling world cup. And Curtis says, you know, you might be good to be a venue announcer. Would you like to do that? And I went, yeah, sure. And she went great. We're going to China next month. So you got to get your paperwork in order. So the sport of curling took me to China twice and Sweden during that year and Omaha, Nebraska. Don't forget Omaha, right? Wow. Stuff like that. Whatever comes my way, I get to do.

I snap it up. I'm like a lot of broadcasters who don't have the formal everyday gig now, Mike. I could be busier. I wish I was busier. We call that the gig economy. Yeah. everyday gig now, Mike, is, you know, I could be busier. I wish I was busier. And, you know, so. We call that the gig economy. Yeah. Pick up your gigs. And you're a true Canadian, I would say here with your focus on CFL and curling. That's the most, to me, those are the two most Canadian entities we have. Now, curling as a sport, I know those ratings are big. I do fail to understand

what does TSN have and what does Rogers have. Can you explain? Not Rogers. Yes, Rogers. Okay. Can you explain in a nutshell what curling Vic and the TSN gang handles

and what goes to Sportsnet? Yeah, the TSN side, they're doing things like the Briar, the Scotties, the World Championships, the Canada Cup, the Olympic trials. There's that trail. Rogers bought the Grand Slam of curling a few years ago. And I have to say, they've done a great job with it.

They've pumped a bunch of money into it. They've gotten sponsors. And so they have all of these events all over. It's called the Grand Slam of curling. And it's a cash spiel. You don't have to be representing a province kind of thing. You just have your team. You go, you take on the best teams in the world,

whether they're from Asia, from Sweden, the United States, Canada, and you go for cash. So those are the TV properties they have. Separate from what's going on with the trail to the World championships and to the Olympics. That's on the TSN side. That's curling Canada and the world curling Federation mixed up in that. Although world curling Federation is also involved in Grand Slam. So it's kind of like two different streams. Gotcha. Gotcha. Cause my, my buddy, Andrew Stokely,

who does a lot of the the audio for these curling events. He's a good man. He's a good man. He does a lot. He does great work. And I bumped into him in the airport once heading out to Alberta and had a nice chat with him. I think he had a birthday in the last week. So happy birthday, Mr. Stokely. Yes.

Now, we've often in the past, he's telling me, Mike, you'd love curling. And he tries to kind of talk me into curling. And I'm like, yeah, maybe I should try curling. But it's never taken. I will watch curling if Canada's going for gold at the Olympics, but I'll literally watch anything if Canada's going for gold at the Olympics. Like if they had

like, I don't know, lawn darts or something, and there's a gold medal and Canada's in that gold medal match, I'm watching every minute of it. Right. Like, so that's, I'm an Olympics guy, but do you, do you want to, before we close out here, it's been amazing, but did you want to try again to pitch curling as a sport and why I'm missing out? No. And, and, you know, I won't, because I came to this conclusion years ago. I used to do that. I mean, I can, if you really, I don't know if you had an elevator pitch in your back

pocket or something when people say, Oh, I don't, like curling you're like well boom no i just go yeah i get it when i've had people go curling no i i don't like it it's boring i go okay because you know i have sports like that myself and i don't want to be convinced anymore do you know what i mean and i'm not going to be convinced i've watched enough of these other sports that I just haven't gotten into. So it's fair that it just hasn't taken with you. Absolutely fair. I happen to see lots of beauty in it. I enjoy it hugely.

I can't get enough of it. Right. That's the way that goes. Sometimes something hits you. It's like, I don't know, should I convince you that you should like banana cream pie, even though you don't like it? It feels the same to me to try to convince somebody to like something they don't like. And I mean, the numbers speak for themselves. Canadians love curling. Some of them do.

Do you think it's another? Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, it's like an older demographic. Not going to lie to you about that. You know, it's kind of, but they say the same thing about the CFL, right? Like the sort of similar in that Toronto itself doesn't seem to be that big on curling or CFL. It just doesn't have that perception because there's so many things going on and they seem to get buried, but you move to like more other parts of the country and it's like,

those might be the two biggest things going on. So, so I go ahead. No, I, I, and I don't think there's been a briar in Toronto in, and I pitched that hard, like 10 years ago, I wrote a column about it, trying to get the, uh, curling Canada, have a briar in Toronto, not in the, in the Scotia bank place, but in, in the Rico smaller. Right. And my argument was, yeah. okay, so maybe a lot of people in Toronto aren't going to buy tickets for that, but you just had one in Hamilton and you had one in London.

And do you think all those, and the people who come, by the way, from St. John's or the people who come from Regina who go to Moncton to see a briar, do you think they're not going to want to come to Toronto? Right. And have everything that Toronto has to offer? I think they would.

I think it could be somewhat successful, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen in the near future. The Rico's not even the Rico anymore. Oh, sorry. See, I got Scotiabank. I know. It's tough to keep track. I think it's Coca-Cola Coliseum or something like that.

Yeah. You need like a whole roadmap. Is Woodbine still Woodbine? Oh, I see in the background. So only I can whole roadmap, but, uh, yeah. Is Woodbine still Woodbine? Oh, I see in the background. So no one can, only I can see you, but you've got some horses up there. You're a big horse guy. Yeah, I do love horse racing and that's, uh, a gift from, uh, Woodbine Entertainment and Glenn Crowder when he was there and Sandy Hawley brought that in for me.

That's Northern Dancer winning the Kentucky Derby in 1964. They brought that, uh, to me on the 40th anniversary that they brought in the winning jockey bill hartak who can if i can point to i know no one else can see but see that right there mike yeah above my finger yep that's bill hartak he signed it for me in the studio at the fan 590 it's a prized possession of mine well you know we have something in common there in that I now produce a podcast for Peter Gross called Down the Stretch. And it's sponsored by Woodbine Entertainment Group

and other such entities. And it's like basically the definitive Ontario horse racing podcast. So there you go. Peter's a beauty. You know, I got to cross paths with him. He was doing updates at 680. So he was down the hall and around the corner.

And we would often have quick little chats. I knew him, of course, as a fan when I was watching City TV and that kind of thing. So to get to know him when I was at the Fan 590 was a lot of fun. Yeah, we're trying. I'm trying to talk him into bringing back because he did The World According to Gross. This is what he did on City TV. And I think that would be a great podcast. So I'm working to talk him into bringing back because he did the world according to gross. This is what he did on city TV. And I think that would be a great podcast. So I'm working on it,

but it's, uh, you know, we'll see what we can do. Uh, but, uh, down the stretch,

if anyone wants to hear about horse racing, you should check it out. It's a great podcast. And Don, this was a, I really love this conversation. Is there anything else before I, uh,

play us out here? Uh, anything else you want to share? I guess you're just waiting for the CFL and curling to resume so that you have things to do. Hey, you know, I'm available, folks. That's it.

You know what, Mike? Everyone else just went, yeah, so am I. We're all available right now. Well, you got your health, right? I hope I'm not jumping to conclusions there. And stay safe. And this will end. This will pass.

And we just kind of have to be diligent and patient and, you know, just get through it, I think, if you just survive it. And then on the other end, we should have a nice period of growth and we can all benefit, I think, on the other side. But nice to see you, nice to talk to you, and it was fantastic catching up with you, buddy. Yeah, you too, Mike. Always a pleasure. I hope to see you soon.

And that brings us to the end of our 636th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at TorontoMike. Don, you're at DonLandryMedia on Twitter. Yeah, or at CFL Landry, although there's not much going on there

as we've discussed right now. But Don Landry Media, always a good follow. I love reading the tweets there. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group. CDN Technologies are at CDN

technologies and garbage day again that link is garbage day dot com slash Toronto Mike see you all tomorrow and my guest is the aforementioned Jean Valaitis This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business

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