Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Don Pyle from Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1508

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

In this 1508th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with musician Don Pyle about his punk band Crash Kills Five, founding Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet, Having an Average Weekend becoming the Kids in the Hall theme song, playing with Dallas Good, working with Steve Albini, Long Branch and more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada, The Yes, We Are Open podcast from Moneris, The Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball Team and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1508 of Toronto Miked, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. The Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team, the best baseball in the city outside the dome.

Join me, I'm at Christie Pitts. July 7th, that's a Sunday. Join me there. I've got Mike Richards, I've got TML CEO Keith Stein, I've got a whole bunch of amazing people joining me. Be there, say hi. RecycleMyElectronics.ca, committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past.

Season 6 of Yes We Are Open, an award winning Monaris podcast hosted by FOTM Al Greggo and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto Mike debut is Don Pyle. Welcome Don. Hello there. Okay. Let me tell you how we're connected, Mr. Pyle. Okay.

So firstly, I get a note from Alan Zweig. Do you know Alan Zweig? Oh yes, I do. How do you know Alan? Well, I first met him, I used to work in a used record store for many years, eight years, and Alan was one of the regular people that came in. One of the kind of record sort of odd balls

that should have been featured in his documentary. Vinyl. Vinyl. Vinyl. Yeah. But wasn't, but I was in it. And yeah, I think the first time I actually like had a conversation with Alan was when I showed up at his door to look at his apartment that was for rent. And we were both kind of confused looking at each other like, you're the guy from the

record store. Like what are you doing at my door? And he must have known your history in this, uh, your musical history, your roots like going back, right? Yeah. I mean, the records five, well in the record store days that was kind of like just when like, you know, kind of, I would, yeah, crash kills five was like, I was still in crash kills five when I started working, right? So, you know, kind of through that in the beginning of shadowy men, et cetera. Okay. A lot of ground to started working. Right. So, you know, kind of through that and the

beginning of Shadowy Men, et cetera. Okay. A lot of ground to cover here. Did I mention that Don Pyle is a founding member of Shadowy Men on a shadowy planet? I didn't want to bury the lead here. We had a lot of ground to cover, but so Alan says, Hey, you know, Don, you should have

Don Pyle on it. I'm like, I know, I really do want, cause he heard me going off about how, uh, basically what he heard on Toronto might Mr. Zweig was that I didn't know until the documentary that was on prime. I didn't know shadowy men on a shadowy planet played live every episode of kids in the hall, like the song having an average weekend, which we'll get to in this conversation.

I didn't know that it was played live for every single episode until I saw this documentary. Well, it wasn't whoa God I Okay, cuz FOTM Paul Myers wrote a book and that was the basis for this prime documentary I feel like any kids in the hall fan has seen the doc by now and they they make it very clear in the documentary Which you've seen it. Oh, yeah, they make it very clear shadowy men down there

I'm gonna mansplain to you shadowy men on a shadowy planet played having an average weekend live every single episode How can that not be true? Well, we didn't play that song because you know, it's like all edited and pre-recorded and it has to be the exact length of time and stuff like that but we played to the studio audience before the uh, Before enduring every every single taping of the show. So we saw the, every single thing that didn't make it to the show at least twice, sometimes four times, sometimes six times, because they'd just keep rewriting them until they, they got it right.

And sometimes they never did. Sometimes they never did, but this is interesting. So they're kind of playing a little, uh, fast and loose with the facts because you are playing live every episode, but they make it sound in the dock, like that version of having an average weekend you hear when you're watching kids in the hall.

Oh, you know how documentaries are. They're never right. Oh, Ellen's why you tell me that. So interesting fact right off the top, we're going to dive into all this, but then I'm just to fast forward. Uh, I was at Christie Pitts two Sundays ago and I'm watching the Toronto Maple Leafs play baseball there.

Have you ever seen a baseball game at Christie Pitts? Oh yeah. Okay. So you've seen the Leafs. I got a book by the way, that Brown book. I'm a 1508th Toronto person. I know Christie Pitts. Well, that's a special number.

I saved it for you Don. But this book right here is the history of Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, and you're going home with that. But I'm there watching the game and I'm hanging out with Blair Packham from The Jitters. And Blair Packham points out that you cut his hair. Yep. Okay. So you also cut Alan Zweig's hair.

Yep. There's a lot of grand recovering here because we've got music to get to. But before we get to the music, who's got better hair, Alan Zweig or Blair Packham? Well, Blair cares about his more. And you know, I'm not saying that in any, as an insult to Alan, because after I cut his hair, his usual thing is to completely mess it up after I get it looking really good. You know, and then, then he messes it to see how it would look as he is going to usually wear it.

But are you cutting hair of any other famous people I should know about before we, uh, get back to crash kills? Fine. Gosh, I don't know. I I'm afraid to say anybody's name in case they are the ones that I leave out or offended that they weren't famous enough. Right. You're going to get notes like, how did you not mention me? Uh, you mentioned the guy from the Jitters. Okay, so there's a fun fact off the top.

How long you been cutting hair for? I guess about just seven, seven, eight years. Okay, and clearly you're good at it because Blair raves about you as a barber. Well, I got to say, you know, have you seen old Jitters record covers? Yes. I've like looked at, when I worked at the record store,

I would look at his picture because, you know, it was a Canadian band. It's that water place where they do the water. Yeah, the Harrison Water Treatment. That's what it's called. And I would think, God, that guy really needs a haircut. But that was long before I learned how to cut hair. And then one day he walked into the barber shop

and I'm like, it's destiny. I'm about to make Blair look better. Okay. Amazing. He owes everything to you because he's actually never looked better. And, uh, he seems like a happy guy these days. So just wanted to get the, uh, Alan's why Blair

Packham connections out of the way here. It turns out Blair cares more about his hair, but that doesn't mean he has better hair. Alan's got great hair. Do you cut Alan's brother? Oh, Alan's brother had great hair. Okay, let's move on here. I don't want to hair shame anybody,

but Mike from K-Dub said, "'Don's an awesome musician "'and his photography collection "'would be worth an episode on its own.' "'So because I don't have many notes "'on the photography collection, "'can you tell us about this photography collection before I get into the music? Well,

pretty much starting when I was like 14 years old, I, uh, started taking a camera to shows. Well, I mean, even before that, but you know, those first pictures are like, you know, see any grandstand where you're way at the back using an Instamatic camera with a flash. And so you have, you know, see any grandstand where you're way at the back using an Instamatic camera with a flash and so you have, you know, some barely lit backs of heads of the 10 rows in front of you and a little lit spot way in the distance. But yeah, starting 1976, I bought a 35 millimeter camera and took my camera to a lot of punk shows.

You know, I was really going to, you know, as many shows as I could, right as it was beginning. You know, I photographed the first Ramon show and so was that a Gary's presentation? Yeah, no. Oh wait, sorry. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Because it was at the New Yorker theater.

Oh, because Gary Topps got like a new book or something coming out. So I think we're going to see a lot of Gary Topp in the media soon. Yeah. Yeah. A book about Gary that he's not putting out, but other people are doing a book about him. Derek Emerson's involved in the Topp. I know Gary Topps has been over here, but he was coming back and he said, I have to wait to tell my stories until the book comes out. Cause you don't want to blow his stories, but I have them all anyway, sorry Gary.

And I just saw a flyer on the social media today that the Ramones second show in Toronto, which I photographed, was 48 years ago, or 46 years ago today. Is that from Scott Turner? I feel like that's a Scott Turner post on social media. No, that's not that. I think it's that Toronto Queen West Facebook group.

All right, cool. I didn't want to say the name of the media, but I just did. Well, you can shout out all media, this fiercely independent basement. Oh, I was going to say basement dweller, but I realized I actually have a quick note here from basement dweller before I play something from the early days of your musical life here, but basement dweller

says, I used to sell tapes to Dawn when he worked at driftwood music in the eighties. So basement dweller says hi. Yeah, that's, that's true. Okay. I mean, I don't know about that person particularly cause he wouldn't lie to me. I don't remember anybody specifically named basement, basement dweller, basement dweller. We did buy tapes and people would steal those all the time. A lot of K man just sprinkle stories to do it,

but I'm going to play a little music to get us cooking. Uh, you comfortable there? Uh, you got your water, but let me tell you, I will send you home with some fresh craft beer from great late. So you'll get the fresh craft beer, but I, did you bring it? Oh, you got a good backpack over there. Okay. Do you call it a backpack or a knapsack backpack backpack? Okay.

Why? Cause I always call it an app sag. Am I kidding? You mean backpack? And I'm like, well, why do I call it an app sack? Like, where does that come from? Well, she can use it as a pillow when you have a nap. Okay.

Smart. You're a smart guy. This red box is empty, my friend, but it won't be pillow when you have a nap. Okay. It's smart. You're a smart guy. This red box is empty, my friend, but it won't be empty when you leave because Palma pasta sent over a large frozen lasagna that I'm going to send you home with. So thank you. Palma sent you lasagna.

I saw them at the taste of a little Italy, the taste of little Italy this weekend. I saw Palma pasta and, uh, and I saw Great Lakes brewery there as well. So shut them both out and you got your book. And I just want to give you a measuring tape from Ridley Funeral Home. Don, measure what you wish. Well, I mean, funeral home, I'm going to use it there. It's funny. I went to a party on

Saturday night and there was a band playing and a band from Guelph called the Flamingos. And two of the guys in that band were in an instrumental band called Legato Vipers, who I recorded and mixed at a funeral home right around the corner from where I grew up. It was when I showed up at the location, I was like, oh my God. Is there good acoustics in a funeral home?

They're dead. Dead to right, Okay. Yeah. I'm just thinking now cause Ridley funeral home is at 14th and Lake shore. And maybe we should be recording there. Like maybe it'll sound better there, but you got a measuring tape. I'm very, very happy about a measuring tape from a funeral home. And then last shout out before I press play on this first song. And then it's pretty much all music. The rest of the way is that that, yeah,

that box you got there, that is a wireless speaker from the narrows wow and if you scan that QR code you'll subscribe to yes we are open which is an award-winning podcast from the narrows hosted by FOTM Al Greggo and season six just dropped you can actually hear out kicking out jams related to season six a recent episode of Toronto might find the Al Grego episode a couple of weeks back. But yes, he travels this country talking to small business owners and he collects their inspiring stories and he shares them with us on Yes, We Are Open. So you've got a wireless speaker you can listen to. Yes, we are open and anything else you want to listen to. That's that's that's it. OK, Don, let's play this and then I got to talk to you about it. Why that initial reaction? Oh God. I think it sounds amazing. Well, you know, when you're like 17, 18, making a record, especially being a singer. It's like, I...

When we did our second, this is our first time in the studio, when we did our second session, I just instantly like, oh my God, I can't stand the sound of my voice. This is awful. I have to quit the band. I can't do this anymore. Well, you know who you sound a little like? Joey Ramone. Well, you know, definitely listen to the Ramones. There's an inspiration there for sure. So Crash Kills Five, that name, does it come out of the, is that a headline in the newspaper that basically you saw?

Well, it's sort of a combination of like, you know, one of the worst headlines that you'd see and the Dave Clark Five. So Crash Kills Five,. This is you're literally a teenager. You're singing. That is your voice. I'm hearing there. And this is just a local punk band you started. Yeah. Well they were, yeah. Three of the, the, the three musicians in the band and guitar player and the bass player and the drummer, Alex Reed and Brian, uh, were from Alberta,

Calgary and Edmonton. I was pen pals with Alex, their drummer, when I was like 14, 15, God, perhaps even younger. And eventually they moved to Toronto and they had a band out in Calgary and when they came out here I was hanging out with them and they asked me to just kind of sing until they found a singer. They were auditioning singers and then they were like, hey, you should just be the singer in the band. So, you know, that's. So you were the singer in crash kills five. So when now's a good time, maybe to get the, uh, let me play a little music to introduce us and there won't be any singing in this song,

but just, this is just to warm us up a little bit, just a little. All right, Don, I'm very interested in the shadowy men on a shadowy planet origin story here. So don't spare any details. We are listening to good cop, bad cop, just to set the mood here. So don't spare any details. We are listening to good cop, bad cop, just to set the mood here. But. Well, Brian, who's a guitar player in Shadowy Men, he quit Crash Gills 5 about halfway through our sort of like two and a half year run. And, you know, played with a few other people. He was in Screamin' Sam and I don't know who else, but

Reed, the bass player, also played in a couple of other bands, a band called The Good Guys, and he had a duo with Bruce McCullough from the Kids in the Hall called Orion's Belt. So in Crash Girls 5 and, you know, kind of back then then Brian had a Porta studio like a you know four track or a six track cassette recorder and him and Reed you know kind of like it was a lot of hard feelings at the end of the band and so they weren't really you know friendly with each other so much but mostly because they weren't seeing each other. Meanwhile, Brian and I and Reed and I were both, you know, still good. And Brian and I were working together in another record store. And so I went over to Brian's place to hang out one day and he was wrapping up a session.

He was recording Orion's Belt songs in his apartment that were basically like a drum machine, bass and singing. And so I arrived as they were saying their awkward goodbyes and they were both being kind of like very sort of like coy and nice to each other, like kind of like, oh, you know, we should play together. You know, what do you think about that? Do you want to play together, make some music? And they're like, yeah, let's try that.

Well, who should we get the drum? And I kind of forced myself on them. I said, I'll do it, even though I'd never ever played drums in my life. Well, I was going to ask you, because you were singing in Crash Kills Five, you're singing. Yeah, I mean, I was through with that.

Because they needed a singer, right? Yeah. You were done with that. You. Who needs a singer? Nobody needs a singer. Okay. But you say that and it turns out you're correct.

But at the time was the plan to have a singer with Shadowy Men and a Shadowy Planet? Well, yeah, because we actually did have a singer. And there was a fourth guy, Ken Priestley, who had been in that band, The Good Guys with Reed and had also been in kind of like a Toronto punk band called The Dead Bunnies. So we loved Ken and loved his singing. And so he came for the first couple of practices, but he was living up kind of like North Scarborough. And after two practices, he realized we weren't going anywhere. So he decided not to come anymore. And so I was like, literally, we just kept going without the singer.

You know, we had, even our first two practices, we were like writing songs right away. You know, it's like, I literally had like two drums, like sort of like Jesus, the Mary chain set up, like a floor tom and a snare drum. And then, you know, bit by bit I acquired more drums and, and, you know, bit by bit I acquired more drums and, and, you know, kind of just kept rolling along. But so Ken stopped coming and then we, you know, kind

of after a while, it wasn't that we were ever consciously an instrumental band, we sort of suddenly realized, oh, we're an instrumental band. And, um, and we realized pretty quickly, uh, how freeing that was for a lot of things. Cause people started like, you know, once we started playing shows, people were asking us to do soundtracks, which we thought was kind of hilarious because it was just like, you know, I've learned this so many times from like scoring film or whatever that people have a hard time kind of imagining beyond what's in front of them, you know?

So if people hear like a really amazing band with a singer and then a really sort of clunky instrumental band and they want instrumental music for their, their film, they always think of the clunky instrumental band, not like, you know, maybe we can get the singer to play tambourine or something. And, um, and so, um, you know, we didn't need a PA so we could like play on the street. We played in like store windows and, um, at the beach and just kind of, you know, any place where we could plug into something, but you know,

without having to carry extra equipment around. And we also learned like from, you know, years and years of touring that three is just like the ideal number for a band. You know, I've been in bands of, you know, two, three, four, five, six, seven people, like all of those numbers. And three is ideal. Three is the ideal number. You don't need a singer obviously, but what made you think you could play drums? Like, is it, this is how it works. You're talking to a guy. You don't need a singer, obviously. But what made you think you could play drums? Like, is it, this is how it works.

You're talking to a guy, I don't know, you know. Gene Champagne gave me these teenage head drumsticks. So I've been picking them up, like just cause I need to do something. And I've been kind of like, I don't know what I'm doing, but what was this, you as a teenager, you're like, I can play drums. Like you had no background.

No, I wasn't even a teenager. I was 23 years old. And I thought at the time, like, I'm way too old to start learning how to play an instrument because anybody I knew at that point who played an instrument had been playing since they were a child. So I thought it was futile.

And, you know, half was. I, you know, kind of picked up on it. But, you know, I realized pretty quickly that all those, you know, years of just kind of tapping on your lap, that they, they do something to you if you're, you know, I was super, you know, still am super into music and, and you know, rather obsessive about a lot of aspects of it. And so, you know, when I listened to records, I would,

when I was younger and had more time, I would sit and like stare at the cover or read the words like in real time along with it and read all the credits and take everything in. And so I think just from like tapping on my, my lap and tapping my foot that I had a pretty good sense of how to take apart the various sounds and, you know, had like the sort of beginnings of coordination. But I mean, the earliest recordings of us,

they're hilarious and they're, you know, but I love them too because, you know, they're, it's something that I, you know, just can't recreate. And I don't know, like I have a long thought this, that, you know, I was very fortunate to play with two guys who are like such accomplished musicians and could have been playing with like the best drummers. But you know, it's kind of part of the uniqueness of our sound that, you know, it's kind of

like, you know, amazing bass player, amazing guitar player and, you know, a lumpy drummer. It worked. And you know, what a trio. So again, we will, I'm just going to let the listenership know that yes, I will soon be playing having an average weekend and we'll get that full story. It's interesting looking back at Shadowy Man on a Shadowy Planet, because I've been listening to a lot of Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet

over the past couple of weeks, like anticipating your arrival and it's just all so fricking good. Like, here I censored myself, I'm not sure. Can I swear in front of you, Don? Can I say that? They're also fucking good. Like, and, and, and then I'm thinking like, it kind of has, absolutely without a doubt, it's got that pulp fiction, like, oh, we're going to play some surf rock now. You know, I feel, so sometimes I'm listening to you and I feel like I'm getting high on heroin or something like that. Like the character is Vince Vega, I guess it was. Well, we're, we're a lot square than that. I don't think any of us ever done

well. You're drinking a water. Yes, that's how square you are, but and and we predate pump fiction. Oh big time. Well, that's not yet ninety four, but I'm, but I hear a lot of surf surf rock. I guess we'll call it, but how would you define that sound? It's very surf rocky, but it's kind of punky. It's kind of all over the place. And does it hurt a band to not fit effectively into one of the many marketing packages that have been pre-prepared for you? I think most bands it does.

And I think that it's an unfortunate thing of our times and that we've gone more and more towards things being so compartmentalized and very genre specific and people who apply for, as an example, when I did my first book, I tried to get a grant for it because I was spending more than a year on it without earning anything from it. And so when I looked around, it was like, it doesn't matter if you have done this many records or scored this many films or produced this many records. That doesn't matter if you are not staying within your path.

All of those things really inform each other, storytelling and narrative kind of like storytelling and, um, and, you know, narrative and film and editing, all that stuff. They all, they all, to me, are, they kind of blend together. So, um, there are always bands that kind of like slip out of that, um, sort of regimented, um, you know, formula. Yeah. And, yeah. Yeah, and we were, I think we were pretty lucky that we were one of them. And we kind of thought like we can do anything. Like we were, you know, we felt sort of empowered by, like I said, like some of the freedoms that we had.

And we, there were a lot of things going on in the Toronto music scene at the time that we didn't identify with. There were very few bands that we thought of as peers or friends. And so we connected a lot more with bands in other cities. And so we were going Olympia, Washington and Chicago and Detroit, going to other places that, you know, we honestly didn't think anything of it. It's just like, we're going there because, you know,

we have someone who's a friend in a band and there's a, you know, a situation for us to play and people that, you know, we want to meet. Okay, so speak, so we have you, you're not just playing, you know, Queen Street here, you're all over North America, but you also end up DJ John Peel's BBC show. How do you end up, because I was reading

you're one of the first Canadian bands to record for BBC DJ John Peel's radio show. Yeah, yeah. How does that come to be? He just was a fan? Yeah, well, I mean, I sent him our first single, like, you know, of course I knew who John Peele was, you know, but I sent him our singles as they were coming out. And immediately from the first one, he wrote back to me.

It's like, you know, this is great. You know, please send me more as you put them out. And so, you know, we had a little bit of a, I wouldn't say rapport, but you know, it's like I would send him a record and he knows you exist and he likes what he hears and he wants more. Yeah. And he's a rapport. And you know, I have these nice notes from him that was like clear. You actually listened to this and have an opinion about it. And so, well, you know, he didn't, if he said, Oh, you have great lyrics, I love, I love listening to your lyrics.

Well, that could be something John Peele would say though, because he was pretty funny. Okay. That's amazing, right? And that's amazing. Now I'm going to ask you, because it is Toronto Mike, so yeah, this is great that you're in Olympia, you're in Chicagoland, you're all over the place, but what about a station? I'm thinking of a station that should be embracing this kind of a sound, this kind of eclectic sound, which is kind of punky surf, rocky, it's kind of all over the place. What about CF and why? CF and why? I don't know if they really played us. I'm trying to remember. I it's funny. I don't like, you know,

when CF and why began and they were like broadcasting out of a little house, uh, Somewhere north of the city. Yeah, that's where it was. I had a yellow house and you know, I loved that station. It was like fantastic. And you know, I had already knew about FM radio and a lot of the stuff that I liked like sparks or roxy music, you know, You wouldn't hear them on on on any of the other radio stations. They would only be on- You had to go to CFNY to hear that. Yeah, but even CFNY, like I'm sort of like predating that

even like I remember that like a radio station in Calgary, when I was out there visiting my brother University of Calgary, like hearing sparks on the radio and just being like, Oh my God, I have never heard sparks on the radio ever. So, uh, yes. Uh, CFNY, um, well, I guess they did play us and support us a bit because they had that awards, uh, thing at the beginning of the day at the Caspi's. Yeah. The UNOs became the Caspi's. Yeah. Yeah. So the Caspi's and we, we won a Caspi one year.

Okay. Well, they're the first award. That's supportive, Don, come on. What does it take to support you guys? I kind of forgot about it, you know, you know, I'm jogging the memory here. So there was some support, like you, you must've had a champion of some, I don't know if it would be like, probably predates hell Harbor. I'm trying to think, but either Hamilton or somebody on the inside. Well, you know, honestly we were much more aligned with CKLN. You know,

that was, we, we, you know, honestly, we were much more aligned with CKLN. You know, that was, we, we, you know, it made friends with people there who, you know, saw us play and they were playing us a lot. And you want to name, name check anyone at CKLN? I feel like Blair was there at the time, Blair Packham, possibly at CKLN at that time. Marva Jackson. She was a big supporter. We did a, we did a theme song for her

her show That we recorded with Steve Albini And it was like okay. We have enough time to like do a few more things so let's let's do like, you know, this is radio spot for our friend and Mike Mike Dwyer his his radio show. I think actually like the very second time that we played after our first show at the Rivoli, we were asked to come into CKLN and like play in a studio that was like, you know, we were in a room that was literally five feet by eight feet. And it sounds so hilariously atrocious.

It's so thin and the balance is way off. It was just like, I think it was one sort of dynamic mic and something, but college radio in general, college and community radio all across Canada, or something, but you know, college radio in general, college and community radio and all across Canada, were very, very supportive of us. And we got played a lot in community radio and you know, made lots of friends and acquaintances and you know, situations to go and play through

kind of the network of, uh, community radio. Okay. I'm going to ask you about one more show, uh, coast to coast on CBC radio. What about brave new waves? Well, of course another like, you know, brave new waves, like such an essential show. They were a huge, huge part of, um, you know, I, I know a lot of people like really, uh, have, um, sort of fond experiences and memories of Brave New Waves. And I don't know, I think it's easy when institutions get into this place of nostalgic, reflective love.

But I've got to say, there were two things that I always think of as really unifying bands across Canada that were playing you know kind of similar clubs to us and that was the uh, It came from Canada albums that aug records deja vu do we're doing and then brave new waves like brave new waves was so essential in Connecting people all across the country Um, you know, uh so many we would get letters from people we'd write letters to people and you know it's like by records through the mail and CB brave new waves had us in to do sessions there. So, you know

very very similar to the peel sessions except that You know Canada is just a different country. So they don't have that same kind of like iconic veneer over them that That the British do. But starting from Augusta LePage and then Brent Banbury and then Patti Schmidt, all three of them were very, very generous supporters of us. And we got invited to do some really fun things with them. Amazing. Now, since I've already given you a wireless speaker, I'm giving you homework, which is when you get a chance, listen to Brent Bambery sitting here in the basement talking to

me on Toronto Mic'd and we walked through it. I think you dig it, the Brave New Waves episode of Toronto Mic'd with Brent Bambery. Yeah, we had a, Brent, I mean, all of them, we were like, as soon as we met, we were like instant friends. We would like, you know, go out for dinners with them and, you know, kind of like, you know, be social and yeah, all really wonderful. There were so many good people working at Brave New Wave, like not just the hosts, the, you know, so many researchers and staff that were there

for quite a long time. And, you know, of course that got decimated, you know, axed a bit at a time. So, um. Yeah, and shout out to Michael Barclay too, who's still covering the scene with his sub stack and does a great job. So, and he was on that show as well.

Let me just let the listenership know that you did drop the name Steve Albini and I just want everyone to know that I will absolutely be drilling into Don Pyle's head at some point soon once we get to I guess Sportfishing the lure of the bait, the luck of the bait. But because on our way there, so that that's in 93, so on our way there, I think it's time to talk about this song and talk about a certain sketch comedy show that I just, I was gonna say I adored, but I actually still adore it. So let's hear a bit of this. Yeah! So far in this conversation, Dawn, I've heard you say the name Bruce McCullough, so I know that name's going to come back here again. And I also heard you say The Rivoli. So I feel like I'm

connecting a bunch of dots in my head, but you're here. Why would I bother connecting dots when I can hear it straight from Don Pyle's mouth here? Okay. How does it come to be that this song, which you can hear on Savvy Showstoppers, that this song becomes the theme song to Kids in the Hall. Well, it was, you know, really about that. It's funny, I think about the expression, like, you know, it's like, or people use it as an insult or pejoratively to say like, you know, oh, it's like, you know, who you know. as an insult or pejoratively to say like, you know, oh, it's like, you know, who you know, but, and it is who you know, but in this case, it was like friends who are unknown,

you know, don't have a TV show or anything, can't get more than four people to come and see them that were friends of ours. So Bruce grew up in Edmonton where Brian grew up and then moved to Calgary where he was friends with Reed and Brian from Shadowy Men. He worked at Canada Drive with Reed, loading trucks and kind of followed them after they moved out to Toronto. He came out a couple of times and stayed in my mother's basement. When he arrived here, he was already doing sketch comedy out west, I think in Loose Moose.

Do you remember the name of that troupe? I know this. It was in The Audience. The Audience, that's the name of it. Right. What a name. Okay, yeah, because I think I do believe there's a moment in the history of kids in the hall where they have to choose which name they're going to,

the audience or kids in the hall. Yeah. There were kind of two troops going sort of simultaneously. And one from Toronto, right? Scott's like the guy who comes in late. Yeah. He's, he's sort of like the, the add on. Right. So, um, Reed, uh, went um, read, uh, went to a college for theater tech. And so he started doing their, their live tech, like doing their sound and doing their, you know,

music cues and stuff like that. And this was like, literally like their very beginning, like, you know, I would go to a lot of their shows, partly because read, you know, it was like, hang out with because read, you know, it was like hang out with read and, you know, and them live, you know, it was very hit and miss and, and comedy, you know, if you've ever been in an audience where nobody's laughing, comedy isn't as funny when people aren't laughing. No, I had that experience on Friday night.

So yeah You know if you're in a group of people and they're laughing it makes the most like banal thing sound funny. Absolutely so Reid was doing their their tech and And then because we were friends and we were free They you know started asking us like, you know, can you guys do a piece of music for us for this scene? So we were doing the occasional piece of music for them. And then we did some shows together where Bruce, he did this character called Trawmouth that was basically Cabbagehead, but before Cabbagehead. It was an angry dad character. And so like Tremoth, Open Forest played with us.

Kevin MacDonald, he opened for us once as a magician who didn't know how to do magic. Oh, I forget what, Kevin the Impossibilist. Love it. Scott Thompson sang with us as buddy. So you know, then eventually they did this theater show and that theater show sort of resulted in, you know, sort of long story short, getting them getting a TV series. So you know, we played every night, like behind a curtain.

And it was at that show that they were asking us, can you guys play a Bennett Surf to open the show? So literally like six nights of the seven night run went by and they asked us, why do you keep playing that song to open? Well, that's the song you asked for. They're like, no, no, no, it's the one that goes that goes, do do do. So they had asked for the wrong song. So we'd open the show, you know, and then the show got held over for a week so

that, you know, some people could come and see them and give them a TV show. Or Michael's, I suppose would be in that mix. And then, you know, we started playing that and then, uh things sort of they launched, workshopped them at clubs in New York and then pilfered a couple of them to write on SNL. And did things that were probably, I mean, definitely were helpful, but also really challenging to keep a group together. But the kids, like we had worked together and had just like such a great working relationship and very similar sensibilities, which I think is something that has crossed over continuously.

We all were raised on and had real attachment to Rocky and Bullwinkle and Rowan and Martin's Laugh Inn. And, you know, I think Monty Python is given maybe a little more credit than credit is due because like, you know, I think Daffy Duck is probably a bigger influence on Kids in the Hall than Montython may have been. So yeah, we, you know, and then when they got the TV series, Lorne, you know, wanted basically an SNL band, you know, to do it and the kids fought for us. So, you know, we, it was a very organic relationship.

Amazing. Okay, so then this is happening at the Rivoli? Is that where this is happening? No, the, well, we did is happening at the Rivoli? Is that where this is happening? No, the, uh, the, well, we did some stuff at the Rivoli with them, but like, you know, we did when Kevin played with us, it was at Lee's Palace. But the Rivoli, I mean, our, we did our very first show at the Rivoli and it was sort of like our house club. We did our kind of like an anniversary show there every year

and played there like so often. We put out a live record from the Rivoli. And it was kind of like us being, you know, the kind of the Rivoli band that kind of like brought the kids into the Rivoli. And sort of inadvertently turned that into a comedy club because, you know, as they took off off then more and more comedy troops like Mark's brother had another had a troop as well and just you know more on the floor am I right that four on the floor Mark's brother mmm I don't think so they had a TV series for a while I forget what they were called this is mr. canoe I get my troops mixed up from this era oh no oh okay it was they had the sex pistols theme song maybe. It'll come to me in a minute,

but I do remember the Mark McKinney's brothers troop having a show on CBC. I feel bad even saying Mark McKinney's brother rather than saying his name. I know, well listen, I can, I have, let me get the answers here real quick. God, those people that are like, that are like in their dark basement right now,

fuck off. The vacant lot. Fuck off for ever. They can lot. Nick McKinney. Yeah. OK, shout out to Nick McKinney and the vacant lot, which I did enjoy. And I do believe they did open with a Sex Pistols song, vacant lot and not the four on the floor, which was a different comedy troupe. I don't think they were Toronto based.

But OK, we got this all right so we can stop calling him Mark's brother. We can just call him Nick. But it was very funny at the vacant lot. That was very good. But this perfect storm that you're describing, I think this amazing that you know, but just to just to clarify something he said at the top. So you guys were there for every taping in your plane. But when we tune in on CBC and we hear shadowy men on a shadowy planet plane having an average weekend, it's one version they recorded that they just kept using every single episode. Yeah, we were recording. That's what I thought. And then I got this mind blowing the dock. And then I thought

I blew my mind to pieces because it's like no way is that live on the floor every single episode. And it's not live on the floor every episode. Right? Well, you're right. You shouldn't believe everything. You were right. You trust your instinct. You know, I'm going to call Paul Myers, you know, Paul Myers, you know right. You shouldn't believe everything. You were right. Trust your instinct. You know what? I'm going to call Paul Meyers. Paul Meyers, come on, Paul. I'm going to call him. I know. Shout out to Mike Meyers, also a local comedy person you might have heard of. Who knows? I once, Ms. Dook, I went to a concert and, um, you know, as I made my way down the aisle to my, my seat, I see, you know,

the empty seats and the person next to it. And, and I was like, Hey Paul, and he's like, Oh no, it's Mike. Oh, sorry. Oh my God. Sorry. I'm fine. I thought you were Mike. You're not as famous as that gravel berries guy. I'm looking for the gravel berries guy. Who are you? Okay. So I'm now going to start trying to, now that we have a

report, we have a report now and I'm digging this very much, but I'm going to stir up some shit now because I got a note from Hadley Obadiak. I hope I say that right. Hadley Obadiak who wants me to play the intro, the old intro to the daily show and ask for your thoughts because Hadley is of the opinion, and I agree with him, that this Daily Show theme

copied having an average weekend. Are you ready? I only pulled a little clip, because how much could I find on YouTube? Let's listen together. June 18, 2007. From Comedy Central's World News headquarters in New York, this is The Daily Show with John Stewart. Oh my God.

Hey everybody, welcome to The Daily Show. That was the best I could do. That's the best I could do. Hey, that's the best I could do. But you hear it, right? Yeah, I do. Yeah. I mean- Everybody steals from each other. But no one's ever approached you and said, hey, you know a good lawyer?

Let's get some of that Daily Show money. No, no, no. We don't ever want to open that can of worms lest they come looking at us. That's right. Glass houses and all that. Absolutely. Okay. So now we got Shadowy Man on a Shadowy Planet.

There's a couple of people you worked with I'm going to want to talk about specifically, but let me play a little more of you, Shadowy Man on a Shadowy Planet. For the record, definitively, where does that name come from? Shadowy Man on a Shadowy Planet, that name for a band? Well, we thought we were going to do only one show. We didn't really intend to play live. And so we all made lists of kind of band names. And it's not a very interesting story,

but Brian had made a mixed cassette for Reed that he had done an illustration on the cover of. And the cassette was called The Shadow of a Shadowy Man. And then, so we kind of took these various names that we'd added to our own band suggestion name list and put a bunch of them together to make it sound like it was like the title of a movie rather than a band name.

We wanted something that was like uncomfortably long, something we regretted much later on when we kept going and had to use an X-Acto knife to cut out all those letters. Well, it's even typing it. Like I was tweeting about, oh, Dawn Pyle from Shadowy Men or Shadowy Planet, you know, oh, I gotta keep, I'm still typing. Yeah.

So yeah, it was a one to keep them still typing. So, yeah, yeah. It was a, a one, I get it. One show name that, that stuck with us for 40 years. All right. I get it now. Okay. So, uh, let us listen to a song. Uh, and again, we're going to have a, we're going to talk about some people sadly who are no longer with us. So, um, just not to bring everybody down, but I'm hoping that you can remember some people that we lost and some of these people were were very close to you. But first, let me play ahead and put this on. You could pair this song, they don't call them chihuahuas anymore, with Bruce's terriers.

It'd be a nice little pairing there if you wish. But okay, so let's talk about sport fishing, the lure of the bait, the luck of the bait. How did you come to be, I want to say that we're produced, but Steve Albini never liked that term, but how did you come to be recorded by Steve Albini in Chicago? Give me that story. Well, he definitely wasn't the producer with us. We did work on him on one album that he definitely was the producer and it was a very different role. Sorry, how did we come to work with him? Yeah, okay. And then because we just lost Steve Albini and kind of famous for not producing, like

just capturing you guys, your sound the best he could is like a recording engineer. So like what is like when Steve Albini produces you, like any insight into the world of Steve Albini, kind of fascinated by this guy? Well, he, we connected with him. We had this kind of weird Chicago connection, which came out of a show in Windsor Ontario where someone who was at the show in Windsor where there were maybe like 40 people moved to Chicago and ended up being roommates with Albini. So he heard our singles there and kind

of concurrently he sent us a postcard, you know, saying how much he liked the band. And this interview came out in a magazine called Your Flesh, in which they were asking him about his pricing, how he determines what he charges bands. And he said in that that he would charge Depeche Mode a million dollars, but he do shadowy men for free. So, uh, we were kind of like taken aback when we heard that cause you know, his stuff is pretty heavy and pretty abrasive. The music that he makes. And, you know, we're not the kind of band that that I would have ever thought that he would

have any interest in. So, you know, so many people like, you know, we're like calling me and, uh, you know, stopping me on the street. Oh my God, did you hear this? So quite the quote. Yeah. Um, literally. So, um, we, uh, had this kind of strange invitation from a couple of people to play at, uh, what turned out to be a wedding in Chicago. And the wedding guests included that guy, Botch, who bought our record in Windsor and ended up being our booking agent. He runs one of the biggest booking agents in the US now. Albini was there you know, Wilco and the cocktails and and

you know the bride and groom were both in bands and We played at Lounge acts like the most wonderful club in Chicago And so like we instantly had this like, you know connection with all these people and it was a great night a lot of fun and so We decided to go and record with Steve. So our first session with him was in his home before he built Electrical Audio, the big studio that he had constructed from scratch. We went to his home, the band played in the basement

in a tiny little room next to the furnace. And then his mix console was like up on, I don't remember if it was a second floor or a third floor, but I, I just remember him like running up and down the stairs a lot. Um, so we, uh, we did that, that session with him and, um, you know, those were for like singles and compilation tracks and stuff. And, you know, hit it off really well. He was super sweet. Like when we arrived, he had,

it was on a long weekend in the States of Thanksgiving and he had made this like full like turkey, like thank gourmet Thanksgiving dinner for us. So that was kind of like our, and we're like, we love you. Can we move in? It sounds too good to be true. It sounds too good. And you're, am I right that he's not invoicing you or? Oh no.

I mean, like that's the thing everybody asks, like, it was like, well, if he said, do you for free? Of course you took advantage of it. No, we were very much a, a fair pay band and you know, we paid him as his usual rate. But not the Depeche mode rate. rate but not the Depeche Mode rate no not the Depeche Mode right but Depeche Mode did offer to pay him a million dollars to to record a record for him and he turned it down what did what did he get from Nirvana for in utero do you

have any insight into that I read it recently and it's something like 350,000 or something like that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I know he refuses to take points or take any backend deals. Yeah. Which is, you know, something that we really respected and related to that because like we had, at some point we had talked to other people about doing things. And as soon as I started talking about points, we're like, Oh fuck. Like, it's like, it's like, I just like, we all have just visions of bookkeeping into

eternity. Well, you've, you can point to movies that were massive successes, you know, box office, you know, bonanzas and the creative accountants behind the scenes will tell you, oh, it lost money. Like I just feel like with the point system, the game is rigged and the creative accountants can take a huge success and tell you at the end of the day that no, this project lost money.

Yeah, well, Steve was a great, ideal for us because we didn't want a producer, we didn't need a producer. We needed someone who could record things well. And he definitely did that. And when we recorded Sportfishing, so we went back, we recorded with him like five times. Not just Shadowy Men, Photocomb, the band that Reed and I

had after that, we did. And then Shadowy Men played on Fred Schneider's album, Just Fred, that that was an album that Steve actually was the producer on. Fascinating, fascinating story there. Okay, so let us talk about, because you mentioned, well, I mentioned Sport Fishing and then you mentioned Sport Fishing.

Is that the end of Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet? Is that like the last round? That's the last album. The last album, the last thing that we did. Because that's 93. The last thing that we did was the French Niter album. Right. Okay. So why does the band split up? You know, I think at that point we had just, we worked so intensely like, you know, it, um,

you know, we'd basically have like a third of the year to write and record music, a third of the year to tour, and then a third of the year to work on Kids in the Hall. So we were pretty intensely busy and we planned on taking a year off and we saved that money for quite a while so that we could like basically like, you know, I was playing, we were all wanting to do other things. I was in a couple of other bands and you know, yeah, we just wanted to do different things. And so during that year off, like right at the beginning of that year off, Reed was diagnosed

with cancer. And as much as I was was really looking forward to being away from the two of them and doing other things, because of what Reed was going through, we just kept hanging out and writing songs. And so we wrote all these songs for a year. We would get together all the time, and we were social and that. And then at the end of that year, we did the Fred Schneider album. And

we were pretty aware that, except Brian had started another band, he was putting on a record with his band. We had started this band PhonoComb with Dallas Good and Beverly Breckenridge who I'd played with Beverly in fifth column. And Dallas, of course, was just at the beginning of the 80s. And it was just like we were having such a great experience. And I think it was just such a tough year for Reed that we were just like, like, so, you know, going back to this other thing doesn't feel really good. Doing what we're doing right now feels great. It's like, you know,

we have all this freedom. We got to like touch and go, agreed to put out a record and then, you know, they were like, I, I, you know, love them as a label and as people. And, um, so it was just like, it just seemed pretty easy. It was like one of those decisions that was not too difficult to let go of, even though it was kind of, uh, you know, we were making our living at it and, um, um, you know, pretty emotionally tied up. But, um, I think they were just like enough sort of like hard feelings about about, you know, how things were sort of like towards the end

that that it was easy to sort of like just, let's just put this on ice. Well, my, my sincere condolences on the, we lost a Reed diamond, I guess 2001, he passed away far too soon and I'm sorry for your loss there. Yeah, thank you. It's been a weird, you know, like just, I mean, it just happens to everybody, you know, just, but it is supremely weird, you know, first like for Reed to die and then, you know, just like. Well, I was going to say, you're going to hear another sincere condolence because I was wondering actually maybe if I can play a little phonoComb and then we could talk about Dallas if you don't mind but let's play a little

I did want to talk to you about a project anyways. You dare to stay till dawn in a haunted house When your knees start to shake and your teeth start to chatter Will you stay all alone in the house? Do you dare stay one hour, even one minute In a haunted house In a haunted house In a haunted house Oh, that's Chad Fair, right? On vocals, that's Chad Fair. Yeah.

Oh my God, I haven't heard this in so long. It actually sounds really good. Don't act so surprised. Okay, done. Well, I forgot about this part of the kind of like the shadowy men coming apart thing because we, we, this friend had made a documentary about the group Half Japanese that Jad is the singer in. And he was going to be coming up to Toronto for the

film and he asked if we would consider backing Jad up for a show. So we did it and it was just like total joy to do so. We decided to do a record together. We wrote a bunch of songs with Jad, like Shadowy Men did. When it came time to record them, Brian didn't want to do it. That was part of the conflict, hard feelings at the end that Brian was just not interested. So we asked Dallas to do it. We knew him and knew what a great guitar player he was. He was a big fan of half Japanese

and just absolutely sweet guy. So, we knew him, but not obviously as intimately as we later became. So, we asked Dallas to play guitar on it and he was totally thrilled and kind of intimidated because he's a fan of Brian's and definitely inspired by the way Brian plays. You know, he was clearly an influence on one of many influences on Dallas' way of playing.

So yeah, we did the Jad Fair album together, which was, you know, fun and easy to do. And Dallas recorded it himself and him and I mixed it together. So yeah, so then immediately, Jad has Dallas like, Oh, do you want to join to half Japanese and go on tour in Europe? And, you know, Dallas was like a teenager. So it was like, you know, it's just like, oh my God, like, you know, this band asks me to do an album with them. And then now I'm, I'm in half Japanese and going to Europe. And so it was his first time touring Europe and, um, you know,

we all remain friends with Jad since then, you know, and Dallas did stuff off and on with Jad and with, um, a couple of people from half Japanese, Jason Willett. Wow. I had Brian Good from the Good Brothers on, so I've had his uncle, I guess. Yeah, so that's his uncle. Dallas's uncle, it's Bruce's twin brother. Right, right, right, right. Just so I, you know, I offered my condolences to him because the, I mean, just we talk about, you know, losing someone too young. I mean,

early fifties, I want to say Dallas that that must have been awful. No, I'm 40 49, not even 50. Yeah, not even 50. Yeah, of course. It was like an awful shock, like, you know, unexpected, um, you know, an undiagnosed condition and, um, you know, Dallas and I, we live on the same street and we talk all like, you know, an undiagnosed condition and, um, you know, Dallas and I, we live on the same street and we talk all like, you know, regularly. It's like rare that like, you know, three days would go by that we didn't speak and we hadn't spoken at this time for like three days. And then, um, you know, I was thinking that I got to call Dallas. I want to tell him about, you know,

something and then his wife called and said, Dallas is gone. And, and I remember like not like understanding that what that could mean, you know, like, I remember I said, gone where? So yeah, it was very unexpected. And just like, you know, of course, re-dying was like really awful. And you know, your mother dying is awful and, you know, various people that you know in your life. But, you know, I think you kind of mentally prepare yourself for, you know, your 87 year old mother to go or your friend who has terminal cancer. Uh, but Talis was like so unexpected and just like, you know,

kind of like a flame that was not diminished at all when it was put out. So, you know, just like one of those things that's just, you know, it's still very hard to comprehend. And, um, you know, I think I see them all the time, you know, it's still very hard to comprehend. And, um, you know, I think I see them all the time, you know, I'm like walking down the street and, um, yeah, it's, uh, yeah, it's shocking. And just like, you know, I've, um, you know, just have such sadness for, for that happening. You know, there were just so many things that were happening for Dallas. Um, you know, the Sadies always like, um,

I always felt like they were just like each album when I went to hear it, really like for their last three albums, I was like, Oh my God, this is going to be the one that's going to like, you know, kind of put them into like a larger audience and, and Dallas isn't going to have to work so hard. You know, he's going to be like, you know, kind of put them into like a larger audience and, and Dallas isn't going to have to work so hard. You know, he's going to be like, you know, set for kind of life that they just kind of need to get into this, you know, echelon where they have a song that, you know, you know,

somebody covers and has a big hit with or a theme song and a TV show or, or, um, you know, some, some where there were one of their own songs, just like, you know, busting out in a big way. And it was just like always on the verge. I always felt like it was just on the verge. And then their last album, it was so horrible for it to come out like, you know, right after Dallas died.

And it'd be such an amazing album. And I think it's really like the first album that they did where, excuse me, where I really heard them being open to working with a producer. You know, they'd had producers on all their other records, but you know, I know from working with them that Dallas is, you know, I don't want to say controlling, but he has a very, very clear idea about what he wants. He's really open to working with other people on particular things like improving his vocal. That was something that was really, really significant in working with. Like Gary Louris, who did a couple of their records, was really helping Dallas kind of like, you know, work with his voice in, uh, in, uh,

you know, way to that he, you know, saying his best and also just kind of him and Travis, uh, getting so like locked in and, and just, you know, exquisite in their harmonies, you know, like, uh, so yeah, that last album is so good. Um, uh, Colder Streams you know, like, uh, so yeah, that last album is so good. Um, uh, colder streams. And, um, he has another album that he did with Richard Reid Perry from, um, Arcade fire.

The two of them did an album together that kind of came about from their mutual love of the Everly brothers. So, um, that album has, uh, you know, been finished. Richard had to, you know, they were so close to has been finished. Richard had to, they were so close to having that finished and Richard had to finish it on his own and mix it on his own, but that record's getting close to, I think they're looking for somebody to put it out right now. But just like amazing that Dallas is doing an album

where that features his voice so much, something that he was just like amazing that Dallas is doing an album where that, you know, features his voice so much, something that he was just like, you know, I just saw him over the years, just like cringe and, you know, I hate his voice and, and, but then, you know, like so many people who do it all the time or who are wanting to learn, he just got better and better. Speaking of people we lost, you know, bright creative people, we lost too early.

Now I'm thinking of Gore Downey because it was the Tragically Hip that introduced me to the Sadies. Gore Downey was a massive fan. And I know Dallas's brother played quite a bit on the Gore Downey solo albums as well, but just, yeah, what a tragic loss to lose Dallas. And then. Yeah. I mean, you know, this, this,

the thing is like there's just so much loss around like, um, oh, what's his name? Uh, 10 tons. Uh, um, Oh God, what's Steve Earl's son? Oh, towns. Yeah. Towns Van. Yes. Yes. That was tragic. That loss. Absolutely. Yeah. Like, you know, the Sadies had just toured with him and you know, been, uh, but you know, wanting to do a record with him. And then like Dallas, like left on the tour, like, oh, like really kind of, you know,

not being so excited because he was going to be playing keyboards on it. You know, it's like, you know, he being so excited because he was gonna be playing keyboards on it. You know, it's like, you know, he's a great piano player and great, but you know, he's definitely much more comfortable with the guitar. So it was, you know, an opportunity for the Sadies to, you know, be in front of a new audience. And then he came back just like, you know, in, uh, Justin towns Earl. Absolutely. That's his name. Justin towns Earl. Absolutely. Now, just,

you know, a lot of sadness surrounding you in this, uh, this is unfortunate because you know, you, you lost read to cancer. And then when you do finally, I guess, 2012, you guys get to get a shadowy men and a shadowy planet reunite to play some live gigs and Dallas fills in for Reed. So on base. So Dallas good is the replacement for Reed diamond on, on base. Yeah. Well, you know, some of that language I, I like replacement, I could, you know, could never happen and, and reunite even it's like we, we, you know, one of those things could never happen. And, and reunite even. It's like, we, we, you know,

we'd never ever felt like it was a reunion because, you know, it was like, each of us was, were so, we were quite insular and each of us had such a significant part that, you know, I couldn't imagine the band with anybody else. I remember really early on, maybe not like so early on, but during one of the kids in the hall tapings,

I had had some like really bad back issues and I couldn't walk and couldn't play. And so, excuse me, the, Reed and Brian, we, you know, talked about it and decided like, you know, to ask this friend who was a drummer to play these shows. And I was like, this is it. They're gonna hear what they sound like with a real drummer and I'm gonna be out of the band.

And I went to one of the tapings and saw them. And I was instantly relieved. Oh my God. Even though this guy is a way better player, he's making the songs worse because, oh I shouldn't say that in case he hears it. But it's just like a different feel. David Quinton Steinberg, who are we talking about here? Okay, very interesting.

You sound like you have imposter syndrome when I hear it in the headphones here. At some point people are going to catch on and realize that, oh, you don't belong here. That's imposter syndrome, right? Like, oh, I just hope nobody catches on that they have this, I'm a shitty drummer. Well, I mean, it took me years to be like, to feel comfortable playing in front of other drummers. I remember our first couple of years, I'd just be like, oh my, to feel comfortable playing in front of other drummers. Like I remember like our first like couple of years, I just be like, Oh my God, I'm so embarrassed to be playing, you know, in, in front of like, you know,

judge Neil Peart's going to judge your technique and like near kid, let me show you how well, you know, it's just, of course you realize afterwards that nobody cares. And if they care, then so what, but you know, I definitely had a bit of like embarrassment or self-consciousness when I'm going into like Steve's music to the drum department and like buying, you know, stuff because you know, I've been playing for four weeks and I'm like making a living at it and they're, you know, working at Steve's. Where's your drums? Excuse me, where Excuse me, where's the drum stuff?

Where's the one that's really long and wide? Yeah, the floor time. Well, that's funny. But you come from this punk background, right? Like this DIY punk ethos. I feel like that would be perfect. I'm not really a drummer, but I'm gonna figure this out.

It's definitely informed us. Like, you know, they just like, you know. It's right on brand. They let us know that, you know, those things are possible. Absolutely, right on brand. One funny thing I was amused when I was, like I said, I was listening to a lot of shadowy men on a shadowy planet and your other, I'm gonna close with a different project

actually, cause you're in New Toronto right now. New Toronto is on the water. It is just a little bit west of Mimico. People in Toronto seem to know where Mimico is. They're never quite sure where New Toronto is. But there is actually a neighborhood that is to the west of us before you get to Mississauga. That's a teaser for a band I'm going to ask you about in a minute. You can figure it out, Don. Okay.

But I was amused by the fact that you named your 2016 box set. Oh, I guess we're a fucking surf band after all. Like that's, that's great. Right. Most 99.9% of people listen to shadowy men on a shadowy planet and we'll say, so that's great. Fucking surf rock, man. That's a great surf band. So much of that is it was just like playing with, it's just like so easy to wind people up. And so like, you know, we had a song called

We're Not a Fucking Surf Band. And, and it was, you know, we would just get called surf band, surf band, surf band. And you know, you get really tired of it because it was just like, you know, it's like, don't they hear that we listened to Alice Cooper or the damned or, you know, all those things. Uh, and you know, it was just like, you know,

in media, you just, when one person tells a story, then, you know, six other people after them in the media tell the exact same story because they read the first one. Right. Um, and so the, you know, the surf band thing, it was definitely, you know, there and definitely part of like what we were, what we were doing. Um, but like even the distinction of like link Ray, who was, you know, huge influence on us and the cramps.

Like I never think about those bands as being surf bands. They're kind of a lot dirtier and grimier. So I think we kind of thought that we were more aligned with those artists than Jan and Dean. But it was an inevitable part of what we did. And also there's just like so much surf stuff that we love. So when we were trying to think of like a title for the box, we had a title that we were like very close

to using and then like almost like at the very last minute. Okay, what was that title? Do you remember? I think it was when we were young fresh fellows, which was, you know, had the band name young fresh fellows in it who were friends of ours and, um, see, it's not, it's not as good a title. I will tell you right now straight up. I'm telling you this cause we are now friends. You are now an FOTM, a friend of Toronto Mike. Oh, I guess we're a fucking surf band after all

is a much better title. That's a great fucking title. I have to agree. And it's like, it's just kind of like, so many people were like, aha, see. You admitted it, you admitted it. Amazing, amazing. Yeah, so with the other title, we thought,

no, this might make people think this is a young Fresh Fellows record and that could get really confusing. Well, it's a great title. And again, like I said, I've been diving into the catalog. Does it annoy you at all? And I'm making up these numbers. I didn't do any surveys or anything, but that 99% of people, please play having an average weekend.

Like this, I'm going to guess that's the 99.9% of people are like, hey, shadowy man or shadow planet, please play having an average weekend. Like does that annoy you at all? Cause you've got a vast catalog of fantastic songs. No, no, not at all. You know, people, the thing that people ask me most is like, don't you get bored playing those songs?

You know, cause like we played for like, you know, 10 years and then another 10 years with Dallas. And there's something very different about playing a song than there is about listening to a song. And even sometimes like listening to it, I think the one thing about having an average weekend is in my mind, it's slightly removed from being us cause it has this, you know,

very distinct association with something else. Sort of like, so is that like if somebody went to, I don't know, they went to a fellow drummer, let's say Tyler Stewart from the Barenaked Ladies and, hey, play that Big Bang Theory song. Like, it's like, you're just, you know, it's that, that's one degree away. You know, you know, it may be like that, but you know, we play that song you're just you know, it's that that's one degree away. You know, you know, it may be like that But you know we play that song like, you know every every time we played pretty much like, you know There were definitely times that we didn't play it for a long time but when we started playing with Dallas, we played it because we were playing like

Long sets like we've never ever played before when When we were together the first time like you know we were always pretty aware of like you know trying to not bore people and and you know keeping it kind of like short and concise because our songs are like so they're a minute and a half long you know like our last album was like 23 songs. That's punk's punk, right? So when we, you know, started a really long sets, we were playing like a lot, just basically let's play all of our favorite songs from, from our past. Amazing here. Okay. So I've teased the, the neighborhood to the west of where you're sitting right now. I've teased that and I'm going to play that, But very briefly, before I press play on this and we close, talk about it, unless I miss something and you want to bring it up,

because there'll be like a catch all at the end here. But I just want to say to you, Dawn, if you have any old cables, old electronics, old devices at home, don't throw it in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill. Go to recycle myelectronics.ca, put in your poster code and then EPRA will say, hey, go here. They'll basically tell you where to go or you drop it off and it'll be properly recycled so those chemicals do not end up in our landfill. So recyclemyelectronics.ca. And last but not least, a good FOTM like yourself. His name is Bruce Dobigan. He wrote a book with his son, Evan, about

hockey trades that sort of these are huge hockey trades in the history. Oh, well, post expansion. So since 1967, like the Gretzky trade, the Gilmore trade, there's a whole bunch of massive trades, Patrick Warr trade. I have no idea. I'm going to ask now, Don, any interest in hockey? Zero or greater than zero. Is there a number greater than, well, I guess a number greater than zero could be, is, could be all of those. Lots of options. I would say, I would say zero. Okay. Zero. So you do not have to take that. That's okay. But the baseball book, this one definitely interests me. You know, you and Blair and Alan, if you're listening, uh, you're invited to, of course, come by for the game.

It's, you know, it's free. So come by for the game 2 p.m. on July 7th, and then swing by. I'm recording beyond the left field fence. And come by and pop on the mic and say hi. That would be amazing. You could review Blair's hair. Even if you're trying to push us away.

I actually owe Blair a great much gratitude. He went to Burlington to pick up Rick Emmett and bring him to a Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game so I could chat him up on my mic. So thank you Blair for picking up Rick Emmett and I know they have a some like I believe it's a Blair Packham album. No you know what is it a Blair Packham album maybe it's a Rick Emmett album produced by Blair Packham. Anyways they, you know what? Is it a Blair Packham album? Maybe it's a Rick Emmett album produced by Blair Packham. Anyways, they collaborated on some new music that I'm gonna be able to hear very, very soon.

So shout out to all those good people. All right, let me press play on this. Do you know, this is like Toronto trivia for you, Don. What neighborhood do you live in? Approximately. Well, I don't know what it's called. Oh yeah, I live in the junction. The junction triangle.

Okay, so you're like, I'm going to say like maybe we're DuPont and Annette kind of meet Dundas. Is that it? Or are we? That's what, you know, that's kind of like, yeah, around there. We'll just say around. I know that I know where you are around approximately. So, okay. So do you know the name of the neighborhood that is just west of new Toronto? Mississauga. No, it's between Miss just west of New Toronto. Mississauga?

No, it's between Mississauga and New Toronto. I know what you're trying to get me to do. Say those two words for me. I'm on to you. It's someone's long branch. All the well things come to pass No big deal said, they won't ever last I will never learn Not a word, rippled burns When I'm taking those tight turns And I see someone getting in your mirror And I see myself getting worse Getting worse All those sad faces keep dropping to the stage There's someone rearranged Lucky me, this is Long Branch.

Don, what is your role, what is your involvement? Tell me how you're involved with Long Branch. Well, I am the drummer in the band and I actually recorded and mixed this recording as well. Some of the people in the band, Lisa Meyers and Sally Lee, I've known them for years and years from Shadowy Men playing with their previous bands Chicken Milk and Venus Curezol and Laura Pitkin who's the singer. I had a very strange, I was in the band Fifth Column and I met Laura when she came to audition being to be the guitar player in the band.

And it was a really, really uncomfortable, awkward situation for her. And I just joined the band. So I kind of like, you know, sort of took her aside and said, don't worry, it's not you. It's, it's, it's, it's them. Yeah, it was weird stuff happening. So when they started this band, like I had been asked by different people at different times to play drums and just like, just wasn't really interested or the timing wasn't right

or whatever. And they asked me at the right time and I really liked the people that I was going to be doing it with, including Darcy Good at this time, who is Dallas' cousin. So I said yes, and here we are. It's almost 10 years that we've been doing it. We're just putting the art together for our second album. Our third album is all recorded. Amazing.

Long branch. Yeah. And they're named, I'm hoping, I just assumed that they're named after the neighbourhood here in Southwest Toronto. Well, you know, we all sort of came out of like, you know, either like living on Queen Street, working on Queen Street, playing music on Queen Street. And so the Queen Street car, you know, certain ones that were going out to Long Branch would say Long Branch on it. So to us, it was like, you know, kind of like Oz, this sort of mysterious place in the distance that...

Right, like end of the line. That our, yeah, that our streetcar would go to. Have you ever been to Long Branch? Oh my God, I've been out here so many times. You know, I love this neighborhood. I think it's actually fantastic. I feel like it's... It's calling your name? Well, yeah, I've thought about it at different times.

I think I'm probably, you know, more inclined to move to Spain than Long Branch at this point. But, you know, I grew up in Toronto. So like, you know, these neighbourhoods, you know, I've been to, I feel like I've been everywhere in Toronto like multiple times and I have a pretty good sense of like the character. And one thing I love about New Toronto and Long

Branch, this area is that it is like an older established community. So I mean, before it blew up as, as like high rise land, you know, the Lake Shore and whatnot. Um. But those, those, those blowups you're talking about actually skip New Toronto. So they're happening in Mimico and they're happening in Long Branch, but those, those, those blowups you're talking about actually skip new Toronto. So they're happy in a Mimico and they're happy in a long branch,

but literally new Toronto is stuck in time. Yeah. Which I'm so grateful for it. Cause there are certain places like this part of, of lakeshore and certain parts in Kingston road and the East end are like, they are like Toronto looked in like, as I remember in like 1970, you know? Right. You can film your music videos down here if you want to capture that 1970s

Toronto flavor. Dawn, this was amazing, man. Like loved it very much. Kind of ran through the whole history of shadowy men on the shadowy planet and more, and you're a talented guy. And I got to thank Alan Zweig for connecting me to you. Well, thanks Toronto Mike. May I call you thank Alan Zweig for connecting me to you. Well, thanks, Toronto Mike. May I call you Mike?

You may call me Mike, yes. I will allow, just you, because you seem like a nice guy. Did I miss anything that you, on your way here, maybe you're on the bus and you're like, oh, I would love to be able to tell this story or share this. No, no. Did I hit it all? No, there's none of that. Okay.

So Long Branch, I'm trying to think. So Long Branch, part of Long Branch is a park called Marie Curtis Park. Yep. We, during Long Branch, I'm trying to think. So Long Branch, uh, part of Long Branch is a park called Marie Curtis Park. We, during the pandemic, we had what are called Toronto Mike listener experiences in that park where I would bring the beer to the park and we'd all gather and drink, responsibly drink, uh, alcoholic

beverage and chat and stuff. And I'm here to tell everyone, including you Don, that the 15th Toronto Mike listener experience is going to take place at Great Lakes Brewery which is 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard down the street from the Costco not too far from Royal York and Queensway. Everybody's invited June 27 from 6 to 9 p.m. I will feed you with palma pasta food. Your first drink is on the house.

There is no ticket to buy. You don't have to RSVP, just show up and hang out. And Don, you're absolutely invited June 27th. Thank you. I hope to, hope to see you there. Okay. Hope to see you there. Thanks Mike.

And that brings us to the end of our 1508th show. You can follow me all over the place. Go to torontomike.com, but you can find me on Twitter and blue sky all over the place at Toronto Mike. Is there a place you'd like to send people to find out more about U-Dawn or Long Branch or shadowy men on a shadowadowy Planet, anywhere you'd like to say. Oh, you know, just put any of those names

in the internet, you'll find something. There you go, Path of Least Resistance. Much love to all who made this possible. Again, that's Great Lakes Brewery, that's Palma Pasta, that's recyclemyelectronics.ca, that's the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team, that's Minaris and that's Ridley Funeral Home. See you all Wednesday when I'm recording live from Glen Abbey Golf Course. It's the Joe Carter classic. I have no idea who will talk to me but I'm

told people like Joey Bats and Josh Donaldson, Wendell Clark, who the hell is there? Joe Carter of course is there but I'm told maybe Jim McMahon. Gosh, who else is going to be there? Find out. Jack Armstrong, a whole bunch of interesting people. Wow. Have you broadcast live from Ridley Funeral Home? Not yet. I just found out from you in this episode, the acoustics might be pretty damn good. I got to do it. There's probably some really interesting people there. If I do, I'm going to use that Halloween music I've suddenly discovered from your Jad Fair and the Phono Comb.

What the hell is a Phono Comb again? Is that like a musician? Yeah, it's like, okay, a record brush. Shout out to Alan Zweig again. That man knows vinyl. See you all Wednesday. The sugar and stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn because

Everything is coming out rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is Rosie and Grey Well, I've kissed you in France

And I've kissed you in Spain and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chacla Cours But I like it much better going down on you, yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow warms us today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy, yeah

Everything is rosy and gray Music