Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Don Pyle: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1899

Episode Date: May 12, 2026

In this 1899th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet's Don Pyle about his new memoir Rough Description: Love Letters and Ghost Stories From a Life in Music. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

Hello, I'm Don Pyle and I'm here without the benefit of editing. And I am very pleased to be back on Toronto Mike. I have just released, oh wait, no, it hasn't come out yet. I'm soon going to be releasing a book, May 26th, called Rough Description, Love Letters and Ghost Stories from a Life and Music. And we're going to talk Toronto Mike tonight. Oh, we're going to talk all right. Welcome to episode 1,899, 1899 of Toronto-Miked.

That's funny, that's how much my soul is. I thought you can tell me that was a year of your birth, Dawn. I was like, no, you don't look that old. Okay. An award-winning podcast. An award-winning podcast. Did I mention that, Don, it's an award-winning podcast proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great Lakes Beer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA.

Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Visit palma Pasta.com for more. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Catch a game at Christy Pits this summer. No ticket required. Fusion Corp's own Nick Iini. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline and Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recycle MyElectronics.cate.cating to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past.

And Redley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today making his return to Toronto Mike, it is indeed, Don Pyle. How you doing, Don? I'm doing great. I'm sorry I called you Toronto Mike. I heard that. Mike. You know what? Mike is the show. I respond to both, uh, both names, Don. And when Don Pyle calls

you a name, it doesn't matter what he's calling you. Just be honored. He's calling you at all. So happy to, happy to get you back in the basement. Oh, it's nice to be here out in, uh, South at Tobaccoe again. I don't have too many opportunities to come out here. And, and I love him a visit. But you're, you're in a band called Long Branch. Yeah, well, it doesn't mean we go here. That's like, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the destination that no one knows. what it really is. It's just a streetcar to nowhere. It's a streetcar name Long Branch. Stella! Okay. So, Don, I actually have a piece of audio I'm going to play off the top.

But before I do that, I last saw you at a screening of Nash the slash rises again. It was good to see you there, but then I sit down to take in the film and you're in the movie. Oh, my God. I forgot that too until I even recognized my own voice. before I came on the screen. I'm sitting there. I'm like, and you know what? I will say this to you, Don. So I'm, you know, I'm seeing it for the first time after I said hello to you.

And you were great. Like you were great in Nash the slash rises again. Oh, well, see, that one benefited from editing. Unlike today. Oh, I do often have like documentary filmmakers on like Alan Swig or a net Mangard or whatever. And we talk a lot about the difference and the difference. Yeah, right.

They get you to do it again. Like, am I right? When you're sitting there, do they say, okay, that's, great, but maybe, like, do they have you re-say things until they get the capture they like? Honestly, they didn't have to do that with me. But, you know, they just cut out all the garbage in between all the, uhs and the, ums and stuff. They make you seem very sharp and very smart. Yeah, they really did.

And the film was excellent. I heard your interview with the, uh, the filmmakers with Kevin and Tim. And the gentleman who was supposed to be here, but at the last minute took a trip to, I don't know. Good old bailing Colin Brenton. Where did he go? Costa Rica. Oh, somewhere that's not here and probably better than here at that time.

It's funny. As we talk about Colin Brunton and we'll talk about him again in a moment, but I'm seeing the last Pogo. I have it right here. So were you at the last Pogo? Oh, of course I was. Yeah. Yeah.

And in the last Pogo jumps again documentary. Yeah. Right. The follow up that he did 100 years later. Yeah. So, okay. So what I love about you, Don, is, and this is also, you did shout it out in the cold open,

but I'm going to shout it out again. So the book, which I was lucky enough to get an advance copy. So I understand it's not yet publicly available, but it's called rough description, love letters and ghost stories from a life of music. But as you kind of say in the intro, it's not just like the Don Pyle memoir.

It's actually like a history of, you know, Toronto and that scene, that punk scene in the late 70s. And basically, you know, it's wonderful to like see what was happening around you like the characters in your orbit. I loved it. Oh, thank you. I, uh, yeah, it was a fair bit of work to write it, but, uh, a great experience. And, um, you know, I, uh, after I did the Trouble in the Camera Club book, the first

book that I did that had not a ton of writing in it, but about a third of the book was writing. The rest of it was photos. Right. I thought I am, I don't have another book in me. I don't know if I could ever read another book. And, you know, even made notes to myself about how much work it was because you think it's done, but it's not done. It's never done until long after the book is out.

You know, even you sign the contract and it's sometimes like two years later until your book comes out. But it's very nonstop in between. And, yeah, it doesn't feel like it, it's two years. So how long did it take you to write it? It was a year. It was pretty much like not quite full time,

but in between other things I was doing, playing shows, playing in a band, cutting hair, that kind of stuff. But, you know, I really treated it like a job and put in as much time as I could every day. Well, you know, you could just pull the transcript from your Toronto mic debut as a starting point and then just flesh out all the parts.

Well, yeah, why didn't I think of that? Okay, well, that's what a future student to do some transcribing for me. So let me just tell the listeners that the initial deep dive, so that was June 2024, so almost two years ago, it was episode 1508, so now you're 1899. Is that what your book cost, 1899? No, it's more than that. But it's still much cheaper than a record. Honestly, I was surprised when they told me what the selling,

prices, $25 bucks. Because, you know, records are crazy. I can't afford to buy records anymore, but books have not kept up in the same way. My first book, which was a long time ago, and had tons of color pages and was bigger and everything, was $30. So I think that's no increase since then.

Your book costs less than seeing me at the Elma combo on May 21st, and I tease it off the top. I think it was before we press record. There's a question in the live stream from Rob Bruce, which I'll get to in a moment. And I teased that I'm on stage of Rob, because Rob and I, we have a, like, it's a one-man show. So Rob's on keyboards and I'm talking. Hopefully my voice is better than it is today. But this is May 21, and I'm just going to off the top tell people, tickets are available.

Go to Toronto Mike.com and click Elmo Gig at the top and buy a couple of tickets. I got a note today from Ralph Benmergy to say, I just bought a ticket. you know, come for the one-man show and the Rob Proust and the special guests I'm not going to name, who are going to do a grand finale with me. Come for that, but stay for Ralph Ben Mergey. What are you doing at that show? 90 minutes.

That's what I'm doing, 90 minutes. That's a popular question these days. Sammy Cohn from the Watchman just wrote me yesterday on Instagram. Like, what will you be saying? I don't like talking about it apparently. You're talking. You're not singing. Oh, no, I'm not saying.

It is not going to be a, we are the world. end with the guests. You know what, but my voice like this, I feel like I might be able to sing. Like I have this newfound confidence. So don't tempt me. You should take up smoking. It's really good. Every time somebody's here with voice and I hear it in the headphones and I go, how do I get

that voice? The answer typically is you got to smoke a couple of packs a day and you got to drink like, you know, whiskey straight or whatever. But on that note, we're waiting actually till noon because I gave you a Great Lakes beer, Don, and you said, I'll open it at noon. So I'm just going to let you know. it's 1157. Okay.

So soon we'll be cracking this open here. So a lot of ground I want to cover. I want to play this music to begin. But actually, if I can go back, would you share with us a little bit about, like how you knew Nash the Slash? Honestly, I didn't really know Nash to Slash. I, um, not personally.

You know, I'd seen him play a bunch of times. Um, and, um, friends with many people in his orbit. So I, um, would hear, about what was happening with Nash. And, you know, there were some things that I totally recognized from just seeing it happen with so many people of kind of getting burned out and disillusioned and underappreciated, you know, very difficult Canadian thing.

It's tough to make a living in Canada. And, you know, I know that he had great success in Europe and living in England. But a lot of self-sabotage. Yeah, yeah. As you learn in the dark. Yeah, it seems that way. And I don't know.

I sort of understand it. I'm not so surprised because he was, the person who I would hear about Nash the most from was someone who was one of his best friends and a very, very similar character, very prickly. Lots of anger, resentment that things had not kind of kind of. gone the way that he wanted them to. But, you know, Nash, the Slash was fucking working at it. You know, he was playing a lot. Fantastic stage shows, making tons of records, touring.

You know, he was doing everything that you kind of need to do. And, you know, there's kind of limits to that if you're going to stay in one city. I mean, we see it all the time. You know, people, you can be something really great in Toronto. And if you've been here for a long time, people kind of take it for granted, no matter how good you are. And then, you know, so someone like, you know, peaches. She goes to Berlin. And then everyone's like, whoa, you know, you're fully farmed or, you know, feist.

It happens over and over and over again. Absolutely. And what I loved about your book as I went through it is connecting dots all over the place. Like, for example, we know your buds of Colin Brunton. Yep. And then I see that you were in. King Cobb Steely for a bit. Yep.

And we'll finish that thought there before I tell you who you were there with. I produced their first single and their first album. And then I was in the band for the third album. Right. And Kevin Byrne, of course. Yes. The director, co-director of and editor of Nash, the slash rises again.

So anyway, I found it all very interesting to connect all these dots. And then later we'll talk, of course, we'll talk a little bit about kids in the hall and connecting how Bruce McCom. Pallif is connected to shadowy men on a shadowy planet. And it's just a great, the book. I highly recommend it. But I wanted to start with a little bit of audio

and then get to some questions that came in and then talk more about the book, but it's 1201. On the mic, though. On the mic, Don, on the mic. We're going to crack our great legs here. Oh, that was a rather undramatic. I'll show you how to do it.

Irish-Graget. So, cheers to you, Don Piles. Welcome back. Thank you. You've got the Canuck Pale Ale, have a sip there. I have the Sunnyside Session IPA, which is out for the summer. I'm very familiar with this beer, and I've got to say your whole promo deal worked,

because now this is the beer I buy. You know what? I've got to cut that out and send it over to the gang at Great Lakes, okay? Because there is more fresh craft beer going home with you today, courtesy of Great Lakes Brewery. Thank you. Okay. And since we're doing this real quickly off the top,

and then I'm going to get to the music, and it's all Don the rest of the way. Did you get a lasagna last time? Yes, I did. Did you enjoy it? But that doesn't mean I don't want another one. You're not still full from that two years ago? No. I don't remember the last time I was full.

So I literally, I screwed up my count. I can only hold, this is some inside baseball here for you, Don. And then I'll talk about baseball in a minute. But I can only hold four large lasanias in my little freezer upstairs at a time, okay? So some weeks are busy and multiple people, and I've got to make sure I've got a lasagna for everybody. So yesterday, Joey Taylor, he's behind this six-string nation, this guitar that's been made up of parts of the whole country

that musicians like yourself get to hold. There's a whole thing going on. It's very interesting. But I gave him this lasagna, and I realized I have no lasagnas, and then I checked my calendar, and it said, Don Pyle, noon. I put in an emergency order with Palma Pasta, and I said, Don's not leaving my basement without a lasagna. You're right.

rushed it over this morning. Oh, thank you. I do see a spot in your corner there that I think a little chest freezer would fit quite nicely just to let you know. I know myself. I think, yeah, somebody gifted me one and I plugged it. And I think I could be hearing it like hearing the motor and wanting to unplug it. So I didn't, I didn't pick it up in the mics.

And then I can see myself forgetting to plug it back in. This is the future I see, Don. So you got to know yourself here. Well, that's why they invented timers. Oh, my God. They have those now? Okay. I'm dating myself here.

So you've got the lasagna, you got the beer, and I just attended my first Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game of the season. On Sunday, I was at Christy Pitts. It was honestly, it was a fantastic afternoon. It was a little windy, but once you got used to it and the wind died down, it was actually a beautiful afternoon. And the baseball was entertaining. The Leafs won.

Ask me, Don Pyle, how much I paid for my ticket. I know how much you paid. I don't even need to ask. It's free. It's free. It's great. Yeah. So there's another game.

on Sunday and I hope to bike over for that. But I'm giving you Don Pyle a book on the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. This iteration of the Leafs has been around since 1969. So, uh, Oh my God. Those players must be pretty fucking old. Oops, sorry, I said that's it. You can swear.

See, that's it. So you had a radio show and is it in Guelph? Yes. I didn't have a radio show. I was a guest. I was guest hosting someone else's show. Okay, but you knew enough to hold on to your F bombs. Yes.

Okay. But here you are where there are no rules. The CRTC is no. Hey, internet. You can swear like crazy here. For now. So last gift and then I'll shout out the rest of the sponsors later. I want to give you a measuring tape courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home.

Ooh. And they've got a great podcast called Life's Undertaking. They have a podcast? Yeah. How about that? Every two weeks, a half an hour with Brad Jones. Always interesting. Talks about life and death.

The last episode was about mothers. If your mother had passed away, remembering your mother on Mother's Day, just an interesting content. Do you think I could trade all? of these in for a casket. I'll hook you up with Brad. He might be able to make that deal. Actually, I don't want. Not for me.

Not for me, of course. Well, you won't even when you went for a long, long time. Well, I don't know. I'm not planning on being in a casket. I'm going to be cremated. Well, you know, they do that too. So really funeral home will take care of you.

They're good people. I'm going to be sold to church's chicken and I'm going to be the lunch special someday. Oh, that's, that's not going to be a future sponsor now. You said that. Okay. So I'm at Danforth Music Call. on Saturday night.

So I'm there because lowest of the low are going to play Shakespeare my butt in its entirety in order. So that's 35th anniversary. That's what was happening. So I was there. It was weird hearing Rosie and Gray

as the fifth song and not leaving. Like that's, I'm used to going to lowest of low and low and they'd close with Rosie and Gray and that's why Toronto Mike closes with Rosie and Gray. But they just, so they do the whole album

and then they do like some, a couple of bonus tracks. But this was the last song of the night. I'm going to play it for you. you and we're going to just talk about this. I suppose we all know every beat of this song by now. But so my first question for you, Don Pyle, is how do you feel knowing that full house at Danforth Music Hall, they just did all of Shakespeare my butt, but they close with a cover of having an

average weekend? This is the first I've heard about this. It's very weird because, well, they're doing a very faithful version of it. Normally, when I've heard people do it, it's interesting. But wow, I'm like I'm very flattered. You know, it's nice, you know. Some other person who does podcasts and stuff like that. There's another one?

Give me their name. Did something recently, which a few people alerted me to about one hit wonders. Oh, it was Alan Cross. Yeah, yeah. I heard it. Yeah. And I was going to bring it up with you, actually. And I was like, what do you mean one hit wonders?

That one wasn't even a hit. I was pushing it to call that. It's like the vaguely familiar wonders, you know. I took grievance, you know, because that's what we do on the internet. We have grievances. It's always festiveous around here. So I'll bring down this, but I won't ask you in a moment about, you know, the legacy of this song. God, they're not stopping.

They're playing the whole song. Yeah, well, they break into some Elvis Costello in a moment. But it was, yeah, very faithful. It was great live. Like, you know, this is how they closed the show. This is it. And Saturday night. I was there and I was thinking, what a wild world it is where I know a member of this band

is going to be in my basement on Tuesday. So I'm like, I got to get some audio of this and play it for Don Pile, but they're still going here. It's crazy. Okay, I'll bring it down. I don't even want to turn it off actually. Keep in the background, because I want to hear it, you can hear how it segues into peace love and understanding actually. But then it comes back. What a good segue. Yeah, it's a good segue. Yeah, it's a good segue, actually. And then your song comes into the mix. I thought they did a great, great, great job here. But Alan Cross, back to ongoing history and new music, which is owned by Chorus, boo, we're independent over here. Chorus owns that show.

But it's one hit wonders, and he did a bonus episode of things, I guess that didn't quite fit. Because you mentioned one hit wonder, shadowy men on a shadowy planet, which you joke is no hit wonder, but we'll get to that in a moment here. So, yeah, so Ron's going to do his thing here. He's going to bring in some Elvis and come back to your song.

But one of the other songs, he shouts out in that episode, Alan Cross I'm talking about, is a Gandarva's first day of spring, which is a song I quite like. But I'm sorry, I think downtime, I mean, here I am nitpicking, I suppose, but it's probably, it was a big jam to me, but there are multiple big CFNY Gandarva's song. Downtown is one, I think, might be arguably a bigger hit than first day of spring. So here I am nitpicking, but let me ask you, Don, how does it feel to know a song from shadowy men and a shadowy planet? And we all know a big reason why, which we'll discuss soon, but how?

How do you feel knowing that the legacy of the song, it just continues to live on. It's still a big jam in this country. And beyond this country's borders, because it's the lowest of the low theme song. And people love hearing having an average weekend. Well, I remember reading a thing once about Triumph advertising on TV. And that they attributed a lot of their success to advertising on television. And I think they were the first Canadian band to actually do that. So I kind of feel like that song, you know, honestly we benefit a bit from that because it's attached to something else.

So I kind of don't fully feel like, you know, the 100% satisfaction that you might be that it's just your own song, you know, because it's a shared glory with, you know, the kids in the hall that show that maybe you've heard of. So it sounds like you're suggesting maybe there's a bit of that Pavlov's dog. There absolutely is. But when you hear the opening chords, you're ready to laugh at the five members of kids in the hall. Totally. You know, I saw it over and over when we play it. Like, you know, it's just like the instant smiles, like the pleasure that it brings to people. It's kind of cool and weird at the same time.

Yeah, because it, you know, it has all kinds of attachment. You know, people hear the song and they think of cabbage head or chicken lea or something. You know, it's like that, for many people, that's the first time, that's the first thing they think of. they say, oh, that's that band, shadowy men from, where do they, I don't know, something. But how many bands never get a song that, you know,

gets that level of them? Oh, my God, yeah. Like the fact that you have a song you can point to where for people of, I think of a certain vintage, I don't know how a 20-year-old responds to it, but if you're of a certain vintage and you hear having an average weekend, like big Gen X crowd at the Danforth Music Hall on Saturday night.

And that whole crowd, Just everyone's smiling, everybody loving it. So kudos to you. That song's going to outlive you. Oh, thank you. All vinyl will. That's a good thing about it. That's why I've gone to book.

You can burn those and they're, you know, they're going to not last forever. Records, unfortunately, are going to last forever. Will your book be in the library? Oh, yeah, it is. I think you can maybe forever, like, yeah, if they buy it, and that's the key, because I think someone 100 years from now

will be able to access those words you wrote to understand the music, scene in Toronto in the late 70s into the 80s and beyond. So kudos to you. Thank you. We're going to let Ron Hawkins take us home and then we're going to get into it. There you go.

Saturday night at the Danforth Music Hall. Beautiful Night in Toronto. There's a little bit of an unexpected connection there too because very early in Shadowy Men existing, we went, Reid and I went and saw Nick Lowe. and took him a tape, and it was like, you know, something that we'd recorded on a four track and was probably very rough sounding. And we wanted to get Nick Lowe to produce our first album. Wow. And so we gave it to him and never heard from him again.

Where did you see him? Was it the Elmo? At the Copa. Copa. Right. Which it became the Phoenix, right? No, no. It became a high-rise condo. It was bulldozed. It was in Yorkville. Yeah, you know what? That became a club where I met my first wife called the Barracou. Oh, oh, well. 21 Scholar. I think it's 21 scholar. Oh, what a romantic you are. You know the address?

Well, you know, this is, again, they didn't have great lakes there, but it was 98-cent beer night on Thursday nights. If you got your beer before 10 a.m. Not 10-m. Sorry, 10-m. A beer and a wife. Like, yeah, but we would hoard them. Like, they weren't, they were pretty lax with the liquor laws at this barracuda. It was 21 Scholar Street.

Yeah, you're right. That's what the cope it was. And, yeah, we would hoard them at our table before 10 p.m. When they were 98 cents. So there you go. Okay, you just brought back some memories. Although, I also heard from my oldest. My ex-wife bought a ticket to see me at the Elma combo on May 21.

That's a mind blow to me, but okay, because I haven't seen her come out to a TMO. Yeah, I have a feeling some papers are going to be served to you that. I've got to change my whole set now. Okay. So we're going to do questions now for Don Pyle's return. Starts with Toronto Boris. Toronto Boris on Blue Sky writes, on Tuesday, when you have Don Pyle on, I hope you get a chance.

chance to chat about his photography and his book of punk concert photos, trouble in the camera club. So because we're going to talk about the new book, rough description, love letters and ghost stories from a life and music, maybe give Boris a bit more about that other book, Trouble in the Camera Club. Well, there was obviously the first book that I did. And it's mostly a collection of photos that I took, uh, when I, I very first started going to shows, like, I mean, shows in clubs, you know, other than

seeing, you know, the occasional thing at the C&E or, or whatnot. And kind of starting when I was about 14 years old, I think those are the kind of like earliest band photos of the Ramones in 1976 at the New Yorker Theater. So I bought a real camera, a 35 millimeter camera after that Ramon show. And just like... All these bands were exploding, you know, the kind of live thing was kind of blowing up, you know, early days of punk, the beginning of punk here. I was into a lot of the stuff that was kind of preceding that, David Bowie, Iggy Pop, Roxy Music, Sparks, whatnot. So, yeah, I was photographing all these things, but I was in high school and belonged to the camera club in school, was shooting photos for the school yearbook and one.

not, but learning how to develop and print film and photographs. So I shot so much stuff that I just, I couldn't afford to print things. And eventually, many, many years later, a friend had a scanner and I asked him to scan some negatives that I had. And it looked like there was some good photographs there, some things that, you know, I hadn't seen like I'd probably seen a tenth of what I what I took photos of. Right. Anyway, so I realized it was too big a job to ask him to scan all the negatives I had.

So I went and bought a scanner. And, you know, at first I was like, wow, I think I have like 20 good photos here. And then, you know, I got, oh, I might have like 40 good photos here. Right. And so I asked my friend Will Monroe, who ran the Beaver Club on Queen Street, if I could do a photo exhibit there. And by the time, you know, photo exhibit came around, I had like 75 photos that I'd printed and framed.

It was crazy. Like the room was filled with photos. And totally out of that was offered a book deal. It was like very quick and instant. So anyway, the photos are of tons of Toronto bands, the ugly, the bio, the bio, tones, the mods, the curse, uh, the verbs, um, you know, on and on. And, um, whoever else was kind of like visiting in those, uh, earliest days, like almost everybody, their first shows in Toronto, the vibrators, the dead boys, the heartbreakers, um, you know, Iggy. Um, so, um, yeah,

the book is a collection of about 300 photos, uh, that I shot then, and then, um, essays kind of talking about my experience and doing that. So Don, when you talk about those punk bands, you got to catch, what role do the Gary's play in all this? Because I was reading in your book about, you know, befriending Colin Brunton, for example. And I know in the Nash the slash rises again, not only do you see Don Pyle, but you see Gary Top, for example,

but what role do the Gary's play? Well, I didn't know Gary Top when he was running the Roxy, but I knew Colin because he was the guy who was like either running the candy counter or or selling tickets at the front booth. So when they took over the New Yorker theater, Colin was the guy in the box office there. And I guess in the meantime, Gary, when he got the New Yorker, partnered with Gary Cormier, who, what I understand from their story was a carpenter and helping build the stage and everything. the two of them had mutual interest in music.

And, you know, the book about Gary Topp is so fantastic. I recommend anybody get it. He stole my brain. Yeah, I have it around the corner. You know, I moderated the panel discussion. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I can't remember the name. He stole my brain.

He hijacked my brain. He hijacked my brain. Right. Yeah, anyway, so those guys brought all of the best stuff to Toronto. And it wasn't just like the earliest, like punk stuff. You know, there was people like John Kale or Tom Waits, you know, Max Webster. That's the kind of stuff they were booking. Edda James.

So it was a lot of just basically what they were into and that just happened to be like some amazing stuff. Well, that was the key. They had to be into the music or they wouldn't book them. And not just into the music, like into kind of like the idea of the music. Because, you know, I definitely saw a lot of bands where they were just like, yeah, this band is going to be interesting. I remember talking with Gary Top at the sound booth of a band from San Francisco called Pink Section, who had 1.45 out that was amazing. And I went to see it based on that.

And the band were like really disappointing. And so Gary and I talked and, you know, kind of shared a similar opinion about it. So without those guys, Toronto would have been such a different place, not only in terms of the support for local bands who they always put on bills with bands from out of town, but also what they brought here. Like they really created a very, very thriving scene. And, you know, it's funny because, like, you know, all of the shows that my favorite shows, and I look at them, there are so few that were not presented by the Gary's,

like kind of like from like 1976 to about 1980. Right. And it was all my favorite stuff. And it's every once in a while, like there'll be something I'll think about a particular show and think like, oh man, that band was amazing, the damned.

But the whole situation of them playing at the alma comma and stuff was really crappy. And then I'll look at it and be like, oh, it's so interesting that that was not a damn show. Or Gary's show. I don't know if it was specifically the damn show. but there were a few shows that were, you know, because it's so much about the places as well

and who you have working for you. Like, you know, someone like Colin, it's no surprise at all that Colin Brunton went on to have the career he did as a, you know, film director, film producer. And Schitt's Creek? Yeah, yeah. And he was the director on like the reboot of Kids in the Hall.

the first music that we provided for a film was for a film that Colin did. We, Shadow We Men. So, you know, some of the name of that film by any chance. I'll get in your memory here. Mysterious Moon Men of Canada. Right. And I read this in your book. Oh, did I say it?

Yeah, it's in there. It's in the book. Oh, thank God I remember something from it. God, afterwards, I was like, I don't know. I'm going to do any interviews. No, you know, I think you probably go on shows. I'm going to guess you're going to go on shows to talk about rough description, love letters and ghost stories from my life of music.

And they will have not read the book. I'm just warning you. This is a move, okay? I literally, I read, and sometimes I do a speed read. I'm not going to lie, because I get a lot of authors on the show. But I read your book. You can quiz me on it. What's my mother's name?

Trust me, I was personally really affected by the chapter on the creep because, and I won't say anything more about this, never talked about this, but I had a similar situation. And it really, that whole chapter where you were so vulnerable talking about the creep really affected me. So it's more than just music chat here. It gets heavy in there. But we'll get into the book later.

But I think I got to get back to the question because that was the trouble in the camera club. But then we segwayed over to some Gary's talk. I can never get tired of the Gary's talk. Oh, before I leave the Gary's talk. For the record, I know you put a number in the book. But I have had so many conversations about that. first police show at the Horseshoe Tavern.

Now, yes or no, Don Pyle, were you in attendance for the first police show at the Horseshoe Tavern? I didn't stay for the whole show, honestly. I left while they were playing because I did not like them. Wow. So were they in their underwear?

No, no. Stinging his underwear? Well, I heard something about that, but I didn't see that on stage. I don't even remember that, you know? You know the question I'm going to ask you, though? When I get these stories, I often hear about the

eight people who were there, the nine people who caught the police is before Roxanne breaks, of course, for a little context. But the Gary's booked it because they, there was, yeah, and they tell the story eloquently about how they end up booking the police because a member of the police, would they like them in another band? And was it summer? I'm trying to remember who was. The, the guitar player. Right. Okay. So you're not a police head, obviously.

But you have to tell me now, how many people in your guesstimation looking back, you put a number in this book? I'm just warning you. So a better match up. How many people do you think were at the horseshoe for that first police show? I would guess probably about 40. And, you know, honestly, the attraction for me

in going to that show was that they were, they had an affiliation with IRS records. I don't know if they had a record out yet or they might have had a single. And I don't know if that was on IRS, but I guess their manager, who's the brother of somebody in the police,

right? Owned IRS. records. And there was a lot of great stuff on IRS, you know, the cramps. So it was like $2, a band from England, they're on IRS. Like, let's go. And it's a Gary's presentation. Absolutely. They must like it. Yeah. And it was at the horseshoe. And, you know, I saw tons and tons of bands there. And most of who didn't have records out there. And that was how, you know, I discovered new stuff all the time. It's just going to shows all the time. Okay, 40. That is the number you put in the book. So it matches up here. but that's a lot more than the eight or nine people,

some people have said we're at that day. Yeah, there was, there was more than that, but, you know, not a lot of people and especially back then because the horseshoe itself was like twice the size that it is now. Right. Yeah, they had, you know, another store next door. It was a big, big place. Right.

Now I'm going to read Rob Pruse's question from the live stream before I get back to the other questions, but because he wrote this just now. Hey, Toronto Mike. Hi, Rob. Please ask Dawn about his collaboration. with Andrew Zeeley. I played in a band called Perfect World with Andrew.

I heard of Rob Proustory being in Perfect World where they were on tour and there was like one of those signboards out front and Rob had joined the band. They had been already going, I think, as a three piece before he joined the band and said Perfect World

which is what the name of the band was formerly the Spoons. And Rob apparently went out and took some of the letters away, so it said formerly poo. So, yeah, I was in a kind of electronic duo with Andrew for eight years called Greek Buck. We did five albums or five records and two feature film scores for John Grayson. And yeah, I did that with him kind of like crossing over. I was in the band Phonocom at the same time,

so sort of in two bands there for a while with that. And then... That's okay. Chris Murphy is currently in 18 bands, so don't worry. Yeah. Is he really? He's in a lot. I mean, you know, I know people.

My former bandmate Dallas was always in several bands, and it's hard to be in more than two bands. I don't know how people do it. Well, you got to have the one that pays the rent or the mortgage, right? So that's Sloan. that's a band that can have a garage sale and have teenage girls still line up for it. It's a big, I was at the last year's garage sale, and it is a big lineup. And we go to these garage sales, and you're just kind of hanging out.

And then suddenly Moberg will just waltz by just to say hi. I just talked about this in yesterday's episode, but who's the guy from Super Friends? The other Murphy, Matt Murphy, will just kind of bike by and say hello, and you never know who's going to show up. Okay, so shout out to Sloan. They should make that like a sitcom. Um, honestly, film it. It would be, like, you know, it's sort of like a, like you have Nirvana, the band, the show. I don't know if you, if you ever caught that?

Uh, haven't seen it yet. Okay, because your first gig, am I right in, uh, Crash Kills 5? It was at the Rivoli? Uh, Shadowy Men's first gig. Shadoway Mel. Was that the Rivoli. Okay, because the Rivoli is, gets a lot of exposure. Yeah, yeah.

I understand that it's very centered around the Rivley. Every episode and the movie and everything's about the Rivley. Which I love that that is the concept for the thing. And, you know, of course it makes sense because I think very directly to shadowy men, kind of like the rivoli being our place is why the kids, the kids in the hall started doing things there. Because, you know, they were kind of operating sort of more like a band than a comedy troupe. And, you know, the comedy situations in Toronto with yuck yucks and that were, you know,

kind of shitty. Like, we really controlled by, you know, one or two power brokers who, really had a stranglehold on things. So they operated like a band. Like, let's just put our own show on. Read our bass player, you know, was their theater tech. They were doing stuff in small theaters,

like the poor Alex, which was, you know, a very small theater. And so, yeah, I think the Rivoli kind of took off as a comedy place because of the kids doing it and the kids doing it, I think was directly related. to us playing there. Well, these are all the dots you connect

when you read rough description, love letters, and ghost stories where you get that direct line from Bruce in Calgary to shadowy men on a shadowy planet and then, of course, already kids in the hall. And I just bumped into Bruce.

Met him for the first time in person. I went to see, it's a good life if you don't weaken in Hamilton, which has music from the tragically hip. Some other Canadian band you never heard of. But he came straight up. You know what? I, there's a story I was about to tell, but it's in the one man show,

and I'm trying to make the one man show all original content. So I'll just tell you, there is a direct line between, and you can tell me the line, there's a direct line between the Garry's and Yuck Yuc Yucs. Do you know that line? No. Jeff Silverman. Jeff Silverman is embedded there with Colin Brunton with the Gary's, Jeff Silverman, and he goes on to work with Mark Breslin as like the president of Yuck Yucke Yucs or something.

So Jeff Silverman is your. line between the Gary's and yuck yucks. It's a fun fact for you. You can share it with people at dinner or whatever. That's funny. That name is sort of vaguely, well, he's on, he was in that panel, Jeff Silverman, you gotta go to the Toronto mic episode of Jeff Silverman

where we cover it. He also created that all night show on CFMT with the security guard, Chuck the security guard. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's a pretty cool part of the Toronto history too. Okay, so Jim Moore, okay? He says, can you ask Dawn if he saw the original New York dolls. Don knows me. I first met him at Expo 86. Oh, wow. Do you remember Jim Moore?

No. He was in a band called Rusty. Sorry, I do know. I do know. I just... What's a common name, Jim Moore? Like, how many Jim Moors are there? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, he kind of moves around, you know, he's England now. Yeah. And, you know, when I first met him, he was in, I think, living in Halifax. We met in Vancouver. He was in a band called Misery Goats. Okay. Well, he's going to love hearing that. Oh, my God. Did you ever see the original New York Dolls?

I'm, I hope it's the... No, he's a Maritimer. So Jim Moore's a Maritimer. He was in, uh, with Ken McNeil. He's in one, one free fall, free fall, which does become basically rusty when Scotty Mac comes from the Doe Boys, uh, from Montreal. Yeah, uh, no, I never did see the original New York Dolls.

I, um, when they played at Massey Hall for their first album, I was kind of like, young. I was like 12. And even though I did see Steppenwolf at Massey Hall at that age, but you know, kind of like before I really had like going to shows took money. And at 12 years old, I didn't have any money. So if I had literally a $2.50 allowance, I was delivering flyers and records were such an important part of my life that I spent all of my money on records. And so the idea of going to concerts was, you know, I was still kind of like catching on to the idea that you could, you know, go see these things. But you caught on far earlier than I caught on. Like,

I don't think at 12, I had the wherewithal to know, oh, I wouldn't be Steppenwolf, but something equivalent at the time. Like, I didn't even, I don't know why, because I'm the oldest sibling. I didn't have this sense that you could just go buy a ticket and go see that band you love live. Like, I didn't have this until I was much older than that. 12. Well, those things like, honestly, like the C&E Grand Stam, which is where I saw my first couple of concerts, those were the gateway drug. You know, you go see those things. And to me, it was exciting being in the stands and, you know, all the people and everything. And I remember seeing a show there with, it was, uh, uh, it was, uh, uh, I forget, the three dog night, uh,

three dog night, April wine and T. Rex. Wow. And everybody was setting things on fire in the stands, like all kinds of paper. I remember that being so exciting. Like, we're looking around, like, what can we set on fire? But I never got to see the dolls. They played at a place called the Queensbury Arms, which was at Jane Street and, I think Rogers Road, excuse me, and I grew up, like, my high school was on Jane Street. What was your high school?

Renamed Collegiate. Yeah, I know it so well. Um, so I knew this bar, you know, had been by it many times, but was still like too young to go to a bar. So, um, I actually phoned the bar and asked them. I said, you know, and your dolls are playing there and I'm underage. Can I come to the show? Like I promise I won't drink. And they're like, no. Uh, so a friend and I went and listened to them from the outside. Like, you know, we sat outside like, you know, one of the doors and, and heard them through the. the, through the walls. And that was like the, you know,

what's known as the red leather New York dolls, the very end of the band, kind of like when they had, the guy's name was Peter Jordan, when they had two bass players because their other bass player either, had a cast on his hand or his girlfriend had slashed his fingers or something like that.

So, yeah, unfortunately. And then when they, you know, came together as the New York dolls later with all new people, it didn't have a lot of appeal to me. Mike, glad Mike got a question in. It was late breaking, but he's a big, big fan of yours, Don Pyle. And he writes, does Don know anything about rumors of a reissue of fifth columns to sir with hate?

I've heard that Don was the keeper of the tapes. That's in quotes, keeper of the tapes, and handled audio restoration work for the She Said Boom documentary. I did for, I mixed and did the sound design for the, uh, the She Said. boom, the documentary about them. And, you know, I did my own version of kind of like remastering the recordings just to make them fit in with the film better. And the band were very happy with them. But I never ever had any of the master tapes.

I know that there have been very, that there have been different attempts to reissue fifth column stuff over the years. Joel Gibb from hidden cameras was going to put some out on his label, Evil Youle, and that never happened. And I know that the band members have been working with Peter Hudson, who recorded a lot of the original stuff to either remix or remaster the existing tapes towards reissuing stuff. So hopefully it'll see the light of day.

He's got a PS here that says, shout out to Phono Com. So remind everybody who was Fonocom. Well, Fonocom was a band that sort of came about because Shadowy Men did a show with Jad Fair from the group half Japanese. The director of the film about them, the documentary about them, the band that would be king,

or who would be king, whatever. He was coming to Toronto to premiere of the film, and Jad was coming up for it, and he contacted us and asked if we would back Jad, if we would like learn some of his songs and play with him for a show while he was up here. And we did, and that was great. And immediately we were like, let's do an album together.

So Jad came back. We wrote a bunch of songs. We wrote a whole album. And then when it came time to record, the album, Brian didn't want to do it. Brian was kind of like making a sort of slow unknown exit from the band without us really knowing it.

That's an Irish goodbye. And so when he said he didn't want to do it, we asked Dallas good to if he'd be interested in doing it. And you know, we knew that Dallas loved half Japanese and

that he was a shadowy men fan and we loved him. So the three of us started playing together as Phono Combe, we did the album with Jad because it wasn't Shadowy Men, we called it Jad Faron-Fonocom. And so we toured with Jad, we did, you know, our own set, play our own songs that we did as a three piece with drums and two guitars, no bass.

And then we got a show, like a real show, our first show like as a band, opening for Yoleta tango. And so just before that, like literally just like a couple weeks before, we were like, oh, this song would sound better with bass on it. Maybe we should have bass on a couple of songs. And so we asked Beverly Breckenridge, who is the bass player in fifth column, if she would come and play on a couple of songs.

And she came and immediately when we heard, you know, our songs with a bass, we're like, oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, it was fun playing with just two guitars. and drums for a long time, but boy, it sure sounds better with Beverly. So we asked her to continue playing with us, and then literally two weeks later, we did our first show and then, you know,

continued on. We made one album for Touch and Go Records in Chicago. And then things kind of fell apart. We didn't get to do a second or third out, as it as it was because you know everybody was kind of like beverly was moving away Dallas was in you know 10 bands the sadies were were you know suddenly became his focus and I was you know doing kind of electronic stuff and yeah so it was a short-lived thing but a really really great band great personal experiences I think that the album that we made without

Chad is really fantastic and, um, you know, it's one of those records that I kind of feel like in all the records that I've done is something that is, um, kind of not really known and it's one of the best ones. Okay, glad you could shine a little light on it there. Now the PPS from Mike is, uh, he's looking forward to the new book. So before I get to some questions I got after reading the book, uh, remind me what day can the great unwashed, the regular folk? When, when can they get their myths on?

rough description, love letters and ghost stories from a life and music. May 26th, which I believe is a Tuesday, is the release date for the book. I'm having a bunch of reading, kind of launch event, sorts of things. There's a launch in Toronto on May 28th at Standard Time, the venue on Geary with a few other readers, Chris Collahan, Kirby, uh, Jason McBride, Tabitha Sothe, and, um, uh, Damian Rogers is going to be doing a Q&A with me afterwards. And Georgia Hubley and Ira Kaplan from Yoletango are going to be DJing all night.

So that's like a super bonus. Um, and then I'm going around to, um, uh, Guelph, Kitchener, Peterborough, St. Catharines, London, um, Picton, Montreal, uh, Hamilton. to do readings and kind of like, you know, accompanying slideshow after that comes out. So, yeah, from May 26th on. You mentioned Tabitha Souti, and I'm thinking in my head, everything ties back to kids in the hall. Do you know Tabitha?

No, but that's the Dave Foley's ex-wife. Well, you know, I think of her as something much more than that. Oh, I know, I know. I'm here to connect the dots. Yeah. You know, really, that's how I met her. And, you know, really, really liked her. she was around a lot of the tapings when we were doing that,

doing the show. And then she started doing this column in the Globe and Mail, which I so looked forward to reading. It was like so funny and smart and political, but also sometimes like Britain almost like it was a stand-up piece. And I just thought she was so brilliant. And a good friend of mine was talking about her friend Tabitha. and I said, is that Tabitha Sadie?

And I said, yeah. And I said, oh my God, I love her. And she's like, well, you know her. Like, what? I hadn't put together that that person was that person. So, you know, I love that I, you know, know her completely, like independently from that. And, you know, their whole relationship child support thing was, you know, messy. So I don't like to.

I wasn't even going to bring it up, Dawn. That's what a classic guy. I am. I was just connecting the dots. I just said it was Dave Foley's ex-wife. That's all. You know, people can Google it if they want. I'm not going to go there. But don't. Google her columns. Read her columns instead. Or go listen to Dave's UFO podcast. I didn't even know. Maybe Ben Rayner's got to get on that. He's all about the UFO's Ben Rayner. But, okay. So I realized about a half an hour ago, I started reading the description from June 2024. So I'll finish reading it. Then we'll get into it. And I know that.

you don't have six hours for this. Maybe you do, Dawn. I didn't ask, but I'm going to make sure I try not to repeat too much from the first visit. So you visited in June 2024 before you wrote this book

and it was episode 1508. Rumor has it you had such a great experience on that June 2024 date talking about your life and times. You said to yourself on the way home, I should write a memoir. I'm starting that rumor. Yeah, that's exactly how it happened.

As a matter of fact. Work with me here. Okay, but I'll read this description. because I'll start it and stop it six or seven, eight times. In this 100 and, sorry, 1,5008th episode of Toronto Mike, Mike chats with musician Don Pyle

about his punk band Crash Kills 5, founding shadowy men on a shadowy planet, having an average weekend becoming the Kids in the Hall theme song, playing with Dallas Good, working with Steve Albini, long branch, and more. And we had a good 90-minute chat that time.

I think we might have another 90 minutes here, mostly original content. But if people want the A to Z, we walk through it all, two things to do. One is pre-order that book. Rough description, because there's a lot more meat on the bone there.

But then go listen to episode 1508, and then you can come back and listen to this episode 1899. Those are my marching orders. What you just listed there sounds like the chapter headings. Well, that's what I'm saying. You were leaving and you said, oh, you know, there's a book there. I'm going to have to write it.

Okay. So what I like, I'm going to touch on a few points here that didn't get discussed your first visit. Well, there might be a bit of overlap. Don't, don't sue me, okay? This is a free podcast. What are you going to do? Okay. So what I did like about the opening of the book is that you cover a topic that comes up quite often on Toronto Mike, which is you're typically either a West End guy, like you and I, or you're an East End guy, like Young Street being like the dividing line.

And I can tell you to this day, because I was born and raised in the West End, born at St. Joe. you went to Runamide Collegiate. Well, down the street, I was going to grade school at Jane and Bluer. And then I ended up going to Michael Power in a Tobacco here. But I was a West End guy. And every time I would go east of Young, like, even if it was just to go to the Phoenix. Yeah. Which is on Sherbourne.

Yeah. You can grow up to Young. It's so close. Yeah. So that or Massey Hall for, like any, as long as you're, that's even, Massey Hall's practically on Young Street. But my point here, long-winded way of saying that even to this day, like, I'll go to the Danforth Music Hall, like I did Saturday, or a bike to visit Blair Packham, and he's in East York.

I feel to this day, like I've left my zone, like I'm now on the East End. It's like a whole different planet. But you kind of summarize that nicely, right off the top of this book, I feel what you describe. And just a fun anecdote off the top, but it's interesting how in Toronto you're typically West End guy or East End guy, and it's weird when you go to the other side. Yeah. And, you know, when you're young, like, I was pretty fortunate that I've, was going downtown a lot because my mother worked at the Simpsons store that was at young and queen. And today's special was filmed.

And I was really into books, you know, crazy about books. And Queen Street, like kind of from Queen to almost Bathurst, there were about 10 used book shops there and, you know, one or two new shops. So after going to have lunch with her, I would go to, you know, Queen West. and, you know, buy books, spend hours and hours in bookstores. But then just the other direction, you know, going to Church Street,

which is like literally, like, the first, like, major streets, two blocks over. It felt like I was in a different part of town. You know, it has such a different character. And it still does. I mean, it's one of the things that I really love about the area around, like when I go to Bluffers Park, the beach out there,

I love the East End there because it feels like there's so many places there that have not been ravaged like the rest of Toronto has and just kind of like, you know, all the character ripped out of them. I mean, it's one of the things I mostly love about the neighborhood that you're in here in East. South Etobico. South Etobico. Except even here, though, like the north side of Lake Shore, you know, there's all these new, ugly new builds. but the side streets and a lot of the main street still has a lot of the kind of high street character to it that it once had. So most Trontonians, and I have this, so there's a gentleman named Bob Willett.

He's on the air at Indy 88 and he comes over once a month to join Rob Proust and I for these thematic episodes called Toast, and we do it once a month. Bob, I think he's on the air the night of my Elmo gig. I have to find out if he can maybe leave the, Liberty Village Studio of Indian make his way to the Elma Kambo. But we talk a lot.

He's an East End guy, and he feels, when he comes to the West End, he feels exactly how I feel in the East End. Just one of those interesting Toronto things here. But I want to ask you about Calgary for a moment here. So obviously, we're not going to read the book here. There's all the meat's on the bone in the book. But you talk about how you end up in Calgary for a spell as a young man.

Would you mind describing to be the difference between the Calgary punk scene you experienced in Toronto's punk scene? Well, Calgary. It's funny, I had coffee with Steve Koch, who I write about in the book. Yeah, he's all over this Calgary. He's the reason you went to Calgary, right?

No, my brother, my brother lives there. So that was the reason I was going. But he was a pen pal? Yeah. I had to prove I read the book, so. Steve was a pen pal. And really, the first person that I met other than my family in Calgary,

because, you know, when I'd go out there, it was like just to see them and spend time with, them so you know you meet people that they knew and whatnot but um yeah this one trip i went out uh i was going to be going out and freddie from the violtones freddie pompey told me that they had this fan letter and it was from a guy in calgary he's like you write to the guy and see if there's you know any calgary you know if there's a punk band's happening there so i did and um Steve wrote back and told me that his brother had a band called

Buick McCain and he said that they're not really a punk band but they're the closest thing to a punk band like you know they do a bunch of originals but they do like you know kind of some kind of bar band sort of standard rocker sort of things and but then you know they'd slip in the occasional punk cover and and claim that it was like by you know lover boy or whatever I don't know So I went, they weren't going to be playing. So Steve and I started writing to each other. And then his brother saw these letters and was, you know, excited because they were all getting into punk.

And so his brother, Alex Koch, started writing to me as well. And so they invited me, Alex invited me, to see his band, Bjouick McCain rehearsing in the basement of Brian Connolly, of his parents' bass. So I went out to Calgary and my brother drove me out to their place again, like, you know, on the complete opposite end of town. And Calgary public transit was non-existent at that point. Right. So I went and saw them in the basement and, you know, they were fantastic. And they ended up moving to Ontario, moving to Toronto, staying for a very short spell in my mother's basement. And, you know, I was hanging out with them.

And then it was Reed Diamond, Brian Connolly, Alex Koch. And then so they were looking for a singer. And I was kind of like filling in singing, even though I'd never sung at a band. I'd tried to start a couple things in school that never quite happened. I had briefly had a band with Steve. Steve Koch called Crash Kills 9, but, you know, we only played. Oh, my God. So this is you on vocal

Yeah I was a little trigger happy You were talking about Crash Kills 9 And I thought you were going to say Crash Kills 5 So I know So I'm a little I jumped the gun So as big

But please continue When I hear that I'm so impressed with Alex Kotch The drummer He's so good All of them were great You know it was So

Anyway we had this Steve and I briefly had this band called Crash Kill's 9. The Violetone saw him and asked him to join the band, and then our band fell apart when he joined the band. So, you know, we did Crash Kill's 5 for a couple of years, and then split up, as most bands who are not the Rolling Stones do. And then a few years later, kind of accidentally reconnected.

Brian Reed and I reconnected. I was still friends with both of them, but the two of them were kind of nervous around each other. and well and a Bruce McCuller connection because Reed and Bruce had a duo called Orion's belt that Reed was, or that Brian was recording

and I happened to go over to Brian's place on the day that they were wrapping up their session and the two of them were talking about you know, we should play music together. You know, who should we get to play drums? And I said, I'll do it, even though I'd never ever played drums before. And so they were,

you know, okay with that. And so we started playing and then that became shadowy men. Okay, there's a lot there. So I'm going to just tie it all together here. But so the Calgary punk scene that you experienced, so I recently, I got to give it a little context, I was recently visited by Warren Kinsella.

And off the top, sure, people, there's a lot of things people want to talk to Warren Kinsella about it. But what I wanted to talk to Warren Kinsella about off the top was the hot nasties. Okay? So did you ever see the hot, nasties. No, but when I saw Steve a couple weeks ago, he was telling me about, he said that there was like, I think one or two bands that were Calgary punk bands, social blemishes, I remember was one of them,

because he sent me a flyer from it, which I still have. And I don't remember who the other one. It might have been the hot nasties on the bill with them, but I think the hot nasties might have been Edmonton. Yeah, it was definitely Alberta, but you're right, it might have been Edmonton. But Warren told me that there were so few West Cansteaden. Western Canadian punk bands at the time. So Steve said that they went to the show at a college, and he said this was supposed to be like, you know, Calgary punk. And he said it was really depressing.

And he just couldn't wait to get out of town. But what Warren said is the reason he got out of the punk scene in Alberta, and he ended up going to like journalism school, and he got past the bar and, you know, the rest is history. Next to you know, he's helping John Kretchen become prime minister. But the reason he got out of it, he said, was the blatant racism. Like he said,

he talked about the racism in, and I wondered how the, the Calgary punk scene compared to the Toronto punk scene when it came to blatant racism. Oh my God. It was so different because, you know, I think something that in many parts of Canada,

when you grow up in Toronto, you have these huge blind spots about how indigenous people are such a significant part of our, history and kind of the culture all around us. And in, you know, cities like, you know, when we started touring, I kind of, that's one of the great things about touring a lot. And particularly at the time I did and seeing things evolve is you step into these other places like Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg that have very large indigenous populations.

In Toronto, indigenous people were mostly in. visible because of how, I would say, how few there were relative to the general population. And then you go to those places and there are, you know, what people called Indian bars. In Calgary, it was like Indian bars. And there were bars where indigenous people would be on one side of the room and everybody else on the other side. And these were some of the bars where bands were playing at. And there would, after drinks happened, quite often be.

fights, like bar fights with lots and lots of people. And I saw so much racism in Calgary. It was really eye-opening, you know, from those first visits. And for a long time after, I mean, Calgary has changed so much. It's evolved so much. And, you know, of course those things happen everywhere and they still happen. But Calgary was really nasty. It was rough, you know. And I was seeing it firsthand, not only just like walking down the street and, you know, seeing how just like what, how disparate, how, you know, someone like my brother, you know, white, blonde, haired, blue-eyed guy, you know, comes there, arrives and, you know, has a great job in an oil company, you know.

It was so different from the people that I was seeing on the street. Anyway, yeah, so I think the racism was a huge part of why they wanted to get out of there because it made, you know, what was happening in Toronto, like, comparatively, like, you know, the early punk shows. It were totally celebratory and fun and everything else. And race issues were not, you know, it was just the people who were there making the thing happen and wanting to be there, not people who happened to be in the bar when the annoying band started playing, you know.

And you mentioned Reed Diamond and Brian Connell. They're in Calgary at this time, but they leave for Toronto. And that connection between Reed Diamond and Bruce McCullough was, when I was reading about that in your new book, you know, they were best friends in Calgary. Yeah, yeah. They worked together at Canada Dry. That was something that Reed's sister told me about that,

you know, I knew that they had worked at Canada Dry together, loading and unloading trucks. But one of my favorite stories was so, them that they would steal the empties from the depot that they worked at and then sell them back to another depot. And it's so it all connects, of course, because, you know, we did dwell on it quite a bit. I'm a long time, huge kids in the hall fan. So I'm sure I spent 90 minutes on, you know, your connection to kids in the hall when you

first visited. We'll touch on it in a moment. But it just, he's getting that context of Reed Diamond's, his relationship with Bruce McCullough and Calgary really does add. some interesting context to your relationship in shadowy men on a shadowy planet with kids in the hall. But I want to ask you, we talked about the racism in Calgary and how things were different in Toronto, but I would, what I found very eye-opening as I read your book was the homophobia that you would, would see in our punk scene. Like particularly, I'm going to reference the

forgotten rebels, the vile tones. Would you speak to that because you're very open in the book about, you know, when you start going to gay bars and dance clubs in the city and when you start dating your secretly dating your first boyfriend. But what was the homophobia in punk that you would witness? Well, I think kind of like the world at large, it's everywhere all the time. And I think,

you know, we live in, you know, what my mother calls an urban bubble, uh, where I can live my life in, uh, without,

interacting too much with homophobia because, you know, all the people who are my friends are not or, you know, suppress it very well. But it is just like all around you all the time. And, you know, when you see old films, not even old films, like, God, there was a film that we were talking about recently with, I think John, John Gilgood. I forget what was caught. It was like, you know, two buddy cops where they have to pretend to be. be a couple. One of them really is gay. And, uh, you know, so those things were,

we're, we're just such a big part of culture all around. And I, I write about just like some of the things that I experienced, like about, you know, in high school being handed a yearbook, um, and asked to sign it. And, you know, I turn it to my page and someone before me, I don't know if the person who was giving me the, the book to sign knew that somebody else had done this or, you know, and was their way of kind of like going, ha ha, but when I opened it to my page,

written across my face, it said, faggot. And, you know, I was in the closet. And so, you know,

that's a real shock to you. And so, you know, you become, like, hyper aware of, of all these things around you. And,

you know, I feel like being gay was definitely, like, a plus and a minus at the time. But ultimately, like, I feel like,

so fortunate because like so many of the subcultures like it really attuned you to um paying attention to subcultures like um you know like even disco like you know as much as I dislike disco at the time magazines like after dark where you're you know looking at pictures of people at studio 54 and recognizing that there's a lot of gay people here and and and and kind of the earliest days of punk where danny fields you know who managed the stooges and and the Ramones, you know, that he was gay. And, you know, people like Jane County. So, you know, there are all these Andy Warhol and just like the songs of Lou Reed or David Bowie.

It's all those affirmative things were all around me, but also the hostile things were also there. like the forgotten rebels thing that you mentioned. They had this, you know, on their records, I don't write too nicely about them because at the time I thought they were like kind of stupid. And I know that tons of people love them. People have a lot of love for them. But I think one of the fortunate things about being gay

and particularly when you're young is that it really makes you sensitive to the oppression and others. So things like, you know, racism. You know, very hyper attuned to racism because I saw it as the exact same thing. So, you know, they had this song, bombed the boats, feed the fish, which was about, you know,

the so-called Vietnamese boat people that were coming here. And, you know, these songs were supposed to be funny. And then they had the song, third homosexual murder, which was kind of about the Manuel Jacques, the Shushine boy murder. you know, he'd been kind of taken off the street and or, you know, went to do some job that he thought he was getting paid for and was murdered.

So they had this song, third homosexual murder. And so, you know, the chorus goes, going to be a third homosexual murder. And the fourth one might be you. And Mickey, the singer, like, when he did that song, he, like, turned around and pointed directly at me. and, you know, as much as I was not out, I know that there were people, you know, that I was out to some people. And like I'm talking about like literally when I'm like 16 years old. And so you know how it is. You have any kind of secret, you know, you tell one person and even if they're your best friend and other people are going to know it.

And so I knew that a lot of people knew. And, you know, it's kind of like you're sort of stigmatized. So, and then I write about another thing. thing that happened with the band Chelsea, a British punk band, the Billy Idol had been in. Like he was the guitar player in Chelsea before he was in Generation X. So they played here and I think they only had like one seven-inch single out right to work. It was a really good song, band that I really liked. And I went and saw them.

And one of the British papers had this column that they would do called Embarrassment Corner. Like, I remember seeing pictures of the vibrators before they cut their hair, you know, and they'd flared pants. So it was just like any picture that they could find of anybody who was kind of like doing something that they thought was embarrassing relative to the image they were trying to project in that particular moment. Like, you know, the vibrators, you know, how you think you're punks, you know, two weeks ago you had long hair and flares. And so Gene October, the singer of the band, had been in some kind of gay porno thing. and so they had a picture from that in the embarrassment corner. And so when they played in like one of the parts in between songs, it was like, you know, just like silent.

And someone shouts out, faggot. And it was just like, what? Like someone was just like holding on to that to just put that out there, like just to put him down or to make him feel bad or to, you know, just like create some like hostile attack like there was kind of like no reason for it and I think either it was like just so normal or else people just didn't know how to respond that it was just like silence um and I saw him react to it and he didn't say anything but it was all in his face um and then you know he just kind of like put his head down and smiled and waited for the band to count in so that

you know, he could just quickly get out of this very uncomfortable moment. So, you know, it happened over and over and over again. And, you know, one of the, as punk kind of progressed and things sort of divided, you know, hardcore started coming in. And then there were a lot of bands that were just like still, a lot of people still really into just like that first kind of model of punk, which was, you know, sort of like straight up, you know, two, three chord songs. and I was really into a lot of, you know, as much as I loved that, I was really into like the arty stuff too, you know, like wire and, you know, magazine and then, you know, Echo and the Bunny Man, the stuff that's sort of considered to be like post-punk, as things sort of evolved that direction, Joy Division, you know, that was more interesting to me than kind of like just the same original bands.

And those scenes had like, you know, a very, I think much more sort of progressive, uh, socially and had a lot more gay people, a lot more gay friendly, you know, ideas, situations. So those things were a lot more sort of appealing to me. But sort of like coming out of punk, it was kind of a drag because, you know, and these were all bands that I liked and people that I liked, but I just, like, didn't feel after a certain point kind of like welcome or very comfortable in some of the scenes. Thank you for sharing.

Thank you for sharing. And there's, again, more in the book. I want people to get this book. I think it's a great, great book. And there's a couple of chapters. We won't go into it because it's in the book. I feel like I'm Nick Kiprio's in episode 700, just kept answering my questions with,

it's in the book. So we don't do that around here. But you talking about the car accident you were in as a kid. And I really loved you discussing the role you had that big brother. And then you talked about how, for you would search his name and come up, try to find out what he was up to. And at some point you found a document that had his middle name in it. So you were able to search like the full name.

And then you found out, you know, I feel I'm telling the story from the book, but, but you found out he had just died like a few days before you found him. Unbelievable. That's heartbreaking. Yeah. Really bad. I mean, um, since then, uh, I wrote on the, um, the, uh, the obituary website on the, on the funeral home where he was and his son contacted me and since then two of his other kids have

contacted me so I'm going to be meeting with them pretty soon now that I have the book that's great done I'm going to be meeting with them and I've sent them pictures of uh of Albert and I when when I was a kid and um and their mother as well their mother has dementia now so you know unfortunately I can't go and visit her and see her. But, yeah, just heartbreaking that I, that I couldn't reconnect with him. You know, there's certain people in your lives that as you get older, you know, you have more and more appreciation for what this person meant to you and what they did. And you have more and more understanding about what, you know, in his case, like, how much

he was like putting out of himself, like, well, he was going to university and, you know, was a young guy and like what 23 year old needs to be spending time with a seven year old stranger, you know? It was heartwarming to read about how good a big brother he was. Yeah. And I mean, the big brother, the trademark name, but you don't hear it. And you made a point, which is you don't hear about big brothers and sisters that much anymore.

No, I, I googled them and there's still in existence, but I don't know anybody, uh, anybody who I've talked to. I don't know anybody who's, um, who's, um, engaged with that in the last, like, say, 20 There was a great Simpsons episode where Bart got a big brother to like spite his father and then Homer got one and he called the kid Pepsi. I remember but it was and I think anyways it's a classic Simpsons episode. I need to see that one. Yeah, and they wrote the role of the Big Brother.

His name was Tom and they wrote the role for Tom Cruise, but Tom Cruise didn't do the role. And I think Phil Hartman, fellow Canuck, Lake Great Phil Hartman filled in and did it. It's a great episode. But here's, this is only a minute long, but I got to ask you about this. and you talked about in the book, but I got to ask you. Tell the listenership Don Pyle, what did we just listen to? Well, that was a song called Musical Interlude

by Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet. One of the songs, I think that was the third video that we made. Our first few videos, the first one that we made was literally cost us $40 to make. It was a song called Shadowy Countdown that, oh my God, after the kids in the hall theme, That is the song that many, many people know us from and people really dig that. But it was also, it's like an advertisement because it's like less than a minute long.

And just accidentally, you know, of course we're going to give our videos to much music. That's like, you know, the only place they could be seen. It was before the internet and all that. Sure. And we were so lucky not even anticipating that this video was. was going to be like so played because of how it fit into their formatting. So, you know, whenever they were a minute short on time, rather than, you know, getting Michael Anthony to blabber away for,

for a minute about something that he can't think of what to say, they would put that song in. And so it got played a ton. So is it possible, like I'm conflating? So the song I played, what was it called again? It was musical interlude. So that was our third one. Okay, so what was the one?

So, okay, so the $40 video was called, uh, shadowy countdown. Okay. You know, I may be conflating these two videos because, uh, Cam Gordon wrote in and he sent the link to that audio I pulled and he, he had a question about the video. He wanted to know who did the puppet show. Who's doing the puppets?

Well, all three of us. That was, so we made like, it was like the dumbest music video ever. And, uh, you know, shot on Super 8 and we built a little box that was like a theater and we had these like characters that Brian drew, the shadowy men, that, um, fortunately got to stand in for us a lot because we didn't like having our picture taken. And then, you know, it was great. Like all these things that happened by accident, like having those characters, because then it got to the point, we didn't even need to put our name on a poster.

We could just have, you know, the characters on the poster and people would know who it was. so we built this little theater of a drummer, a bass player, a guitar player, shadowy man, had little curtains on it that, you know, written in glitter on the curtains, musical interlude. And you can see in the video when we go to open the curtains at the beginning, they stick together because the glue wasn't dry yet. So the curtains are glued. And so they were on strings and it's literally one operating the camera.

and the other two of us banging on the top of the box to make the strings move. Might be the world's least expensive video. No, the one before that was. Oh, yeah, with the $40 one. Yeah, I think that one cost us. Right. The budget doubled every video. So like the $40 one became an $80 video.

And then it was like $150 for that video. And at some point you realize, just have your song played before every single episode of kids in the hall and don't worry about this nonsense. Well, and the great thing about like the $40 video. was that like we actually made like enough royalties from it being broadcasted. It paid for the video. Like who can say that about their music video? Yeah, eat your heart out, Michael Jackson. Okay.

So the second follow up from Cam Gordon was he says, much music played this for years. Did this happen organically or did they know people there? So did you literally because Mobergh, I talked about him at the Sloan garage sale, but he talks about filming that video from an adult now and just dropping it off. And I guess at the time that was $2.99 Queen Street West. Just right down the street from where they shot the video.

Which was where now it's a mech. Yeah. Like it's Spadina and Queen, I guess. So he just drops it off and then they just start playing it and it gets in high rotation and it changes everything for the pursuit happiness. Did you just drop it off? Yeah. That's how you didn't have a connect on the inside.

No, no. My one connection at Much Music was someone that I went to high school with. And he was an editor there. And I remember saying, that, you know, I was going to take our video to much music. And he laughed and he's like, you know, you think they're going to play it. Like, you know, it's kind of like... You'd laugh at you.

Yeah. It was like... I'm right they're going to play it. Well, you know, it was... You needed a minute to fill that minute. No, I think about him once in a while because like he was just like sort of like disdainful about like, you know, me thinking that, you know, my stupid band is going to do anything and get, get any attention. And, you know, it was completely, you just give them.

hand them like, you know, the three-quarter-inch VHS tape and, uh, and to a, uh, a person at the door. I know. Which was always, I think that was the cool thing about it. Like, it just seemed, even though it was this, you know, big chum chum city enterprise or whatever, it seemed kind of like do it yourself. Like it's like it's, it's a, and I was a big fan of much music. Nothing happens organically anymore. Nobody gets paid paid on the radio. Bill Media is not, bill media is going to pre-program this for, you know, there's radio stations now, like CF and Y, right?

Where it's just, we have. these edge stations throughout the country and it's all automated and pre-programmed based on focus groups and this day that you're talking about you could just drop off a tape at the reception and it would be played all the time across the country it's just so bizarre but that that was what was cool about it yeah and long gone and it happened with a lot of people you know like a lot of people you know had attention because of how open things were how there wasn't a corporate tie-in to every single thing. And, you know, it happens so rarely now, but I mean, almost never. Like when that band Engin de Poitrine kind of blew up, that was like the first time in years that I can remember

something happening organically where they had a music video from a festival they're playing at and all of a sudden, everybody I know is talking about it. And where, you know, so it's exciting that that can still happen. But it's extremely rare. And, you know, of course they're going to get swallowed up. Immediately. Well, yeah, even, yeah, absolutely. That's a, that's a good point. Now, the one connection, I just say,

from much music, I'm going to connect Chum City to Rundamee collegiate really quickly for you here is that, Dwight Drummond, who you know is a news guy on city news. Yeah, we'll get, yes, Scott Reyes. The news guy on CBC.

So now he's a news guy at CBC. But he was working like security for electric circus at 299 Queen Street. And then he was in Maestro West videos directed by Joel Goldberg, who was one of the founders of the Electric Circus television show, not the 99 Queen Street East one. But all this is to say is that Dwight Drummond then got on the air at City TV, and now he's on at CBC, and Dwight Drummond went to Renamead Collegiate. Oh, he did. I'm just connecting these dots. No, I didn't know that. Okay. So, and I just

check the clock. It's unbelievable how easy it is to talk to you. So again, there is another episode where we go A to Z, but the book is coming out. So I'll do a couple of quick hits here, if that's cool, a couple of quick hits. One is, can you confirm or deny this? Do you remember Molly Johnson being known as the diva of Queen Street? Does that ring a bell to you? Well, I never called her that. But did you hear that that was her nickname?

You know, in certain press, you know, where they have to have kind of like a label thing. Yeah, you know, I saw her referred to as that. The div of Queen Street. Okay. I'm not trying to get you in trouble. here. No, no, I mean, you know, I like her. She was amazing. She's a legend. She did Kumaeha. Like, you know,

she was one of the people who did that. She's got the order of Canada for that. Really? I mean, well, you need one too. Well, deserved, you know, she, you know, she deserved it for that alone. Well, just ask like a Gordy Johnson, the role of Molly Johnson. I just talked to Gordy Johnson from Big Sugar

and Molly puts a roof over his head, gets him a record deal, puts him in her band. Like, you know, that man owes Molly a few, a few great Like, where shadowy men played at Ontario Place opening for Altamota because of because of her asking us.

So listen, I was just curious if you had heard that nickname. I only recently became aware that she was known as the div of Queen Street. So I'm trying to confirm whether that was a thing or not. But okay, a couple of quick hits here. One is,

if you had to guess, how many times do you think you put out savvy showstoppers? Well, is it 11? I don't know, seven? I forget how many.

Fun fact in the book. Savvy showstoppers put out a few. times. So we're not even going to dive into the Steve Albini stuff because we did it last time and we definitely spent a lot of time talking about the late grade Dallas Good. Okay. So, and of course, of course, that's that sad date of February 17th, you know, my condolences that you lost both Reed Diamond and Dallas Good different years, but they both died on a February 17. Yeah. Terrible. Very, somewhat, that didn't occur to me at the time. but someone told me later and just like, oh, wow, that's so weird.

And then, you know, that day now on the calendar just has, you know, those set of mystical things to it, like Christmas or something, where you see it on your calendar and it's like, oh, you know, this impending, weird feeling, you know, that it's coming. So it's, yeah, it is strange. You've experienced some loss and I'm sorry for all of that. But I do want to tell the listenership and you, Don Pryor. that in early June, I think,

I'm going to actually pack up the studio, stick it in the trailer, and bike it to the ferry, and take the ferry across to the Toronto Island to record at the gas station with Dale Morningstar. Lucky you. And I was reading... Sorry, what month?

I think it's June. June. I hope the lake's warm enough for you to swim then. You know what? I can tell you, I'm kayaking quite a bit, and you do need to wait, you need to wait till June before you get in that car.

yeah, because you might end up in the drink. But it was interesting reading about your experience at the gas station with Dale Morningstar. Yeah, I recorded there a couple of times. And one of the times I was engineering a session for the hidden cameras. And it was such a wonderful place to do it, not only because of the studio, but just like how going to the island and doing a recording there feels like you're going camping. So the band would like literally, they'd do a few take. and they'd be playing in their bathing suits

and would stop if they wanted like a little break and all of them would run to the water and then go swimming and then come back and they're still toweling themselves off and I'm editing or something like that while they're gone they all come back in their swimsuits, okay, let's go. Yeah, it was like summer camp. It's such a great place.

I'm so glad that Dale still has it. Yeah, still has it. And I want to thank you in your book for remembering Wendy Coburn. Hmm. Do you know Wendy? No, I learned about Wendy from your book and then I did my own research, as they say. Yep. I'm glad you made me aware.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, she was kind of the inspiration to start writing this book because of responses I got from people when I talked about her at the previous book that I did. It was all photos where I did talks about them where I talked more about the photos. and that whole thing was really kind of sort of woke me up to like, you know, people really like hearing these things. And, you know, I've known it for a long time when people ask me about particular situations where, you know, you tell them something and people are like, wow, oh my God, wow. And then the audience responses that I got when I did those photo talks was just so overworked.

overwhelmingly positive. And I think kind of like when I did the trouble in the Camera Club book, you know, I started writing it and was doing all these versions of it and just hating everything I was writing and then realize that like, you know, what's missing is my feeling about what was happening. And that was kind of also inspiration for this book. It's like my feeling and what I was experiencing about what happening.

Like, you know, I had no interest in doing like an autobiography because like who am I? Who cares? but also there's such a form, there's such a standard form to autobiographies that I find really boring. And there are very, very few that kind of can transcend that. So I, you know, had a lot of things that I wanted to talk about

and people that I wanted to have remembered, people that I wanted to have some kind of document about who they were and what they meant to me. And kind of, you know, like what you say about the episode about my mother, kind of like so many people went through those situations. The creep of, yeah, the creep. Yeah, I know that other people experience a lot of the same things that I did. And, you know, so I know that people connect to, you know, different chapters or will connect to different chapters. People who've read it so far, you know, it's been very interesting because, you know,

people immediately respond to the thing that they experienced as well. On the live stream, Rob Delmundo says he has no specific question for you, but he loved the shadowy men show at Clintons and 92 and he still wears the t-shirt. Oh, thank you. We loved Clintons. That was a fun place to play. Rob, to see it gone. Sorry I missed you at Danforth Music Hall.

I know we were both in the same building, but it was jammed in there. We were all waiting for that cover of shadowy men on a shadowy planet, having an average weekend. Okay. So in the home stretch here, I just, again, we're not going to, all the kids in the hall stuff, talked about the first time, it's in the book. But what you really hammered home in this book was how Lauren did not want you guys. Lauren, kids had to fight for you. Lauren Michaels did not want shadowy man on a shadowy planet,

playing the theme song for Kisna Hall. Yeah, and when Bruce was working on Saturday Night Live, he tried to get us on the show as well. And that went nowhere, which I thought was kind of like, you know, that would have been fun for us to do, but also for them. Like, you know, another show under the Broadway video umbrella.

Right. But yeah, Lauren was just sort of like this, you know, creature that just sort of kind of, Cala transported into the set every once in a while. He was like the boss was there, right? And, you know, him and his big helmet of hair would be emitting rays of light that that scared everybody.

You could feel when he was there. It was very interesting how when you meet people who have this kind of like real aura of power, and it's almost always power that other people ascribe to them. But, you know, sometimes you just see it. and feel it. Like, I remember meeting Ann Murray at the Juno's once. And I felt that. Like, it was like, what is that thing coming from the other side of the room? Oh, my God. It's the aura of Anne Murray. Well, speaking of the, speaking of the Juno's, I'll read a little excerpt here on our way out here. By way, you're two for two, Don Pile. I've absolutely adored both of your visits. So

should we dare at some point go three for three? We're ending. Yeah, I'm staying actually for the day. I don't know if your family told you. I'll hang out with you. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, off the record chat, so it'll be even better. But I'll read an excerpt. One year when shadowy men were nominated, the Juno ceremony was broadcast live, with most of the TV crew being people we knew from kids tapings. We knew who bare naked ladies were, but didn't know them.

Seated in the same aisle, I waved hello and smiled to them, as we made our way to our seats. Their drummer, Tyler, made a screw you face, mouthing the words, fuck you at me and giving me the finger. Say it ain't so, Don. Say it ain't so. You know, I have a cordial relationship with him now,

but that definitely happened. FOTM, Tyler Stewart. Next time he's on Toronto, Mike, we'll have to discuss that. But, Don, thanks for doing this. And I hope the listeners get in advance, whatever, you can do the pre-purchase, I'm sure, or whatever, but get rough description, love letters and ghost stories from a life of music.

We'll chat again, man. I love this. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Always good to talk to a fellow west of young guy like yourself. And that brings us to the end of our 1,899th show. Go to Toronto Mike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs.

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Nick Aienes. He's got two great podcasts, Building Toronto Skyline and Mike and Nick. Subscribe and enjoy. And Recycle MyElectronics.ca. That's where you go. If you have old electronics, old devices, you don't throw it in the garbage.

You go to Recycle My Electronics.ca. And Ridley Funeral Home, you got your measuring tape. See you all tomorrow when CBC's Susan Bon Bonner comes over for her exit interview. That should be great. See you all then.