Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Donnovan Bennett: Toronto Mike'd #643

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

Mike chats with Sportsnet's Donnovan Bennett about his work there, the embracing of digital platforms and social media, recent conversations with Willie O'Ree, Harrison Browne and Jessica Platt, whether he'd work in the US, sleeping with the enemy and his run for Ahmaud Arbery.

Welcome to episode 643 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Garbage Day. Weekly reminders for garbage, recycling, and yard waste pickup. Visit GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike to sign up now. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals

for your home and your business. The Keitner Group. They love helping buyers find their dream home. Text TORONTOMIKE to 59559. And our newest sponsor, CDN Technologies. Your IT and cybersecurity experts. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is Sportsnet's Donovan Bennett. Hello, Donovan.

Hello. I mean, I almost left and got a snack while you did your promo read. How many sponsors do you have? I host three podcasts and combine those three podcasts. Don't have as many sponsors as you just listed off. So evidently, either your sales team is doing an outstanding job or your rate card is a little too low. One or the other, because that was a long list of people that you thanked. Or maybe it's a little of column A and a little bit of column B. Meet you in the middle there. Yeah, there's six proud sponsors of Toronto Mic'd and I value each

and every one of them. And thank you all for supporting and helping to fuel the real talk, as I say. And thank you, man, for taking time. I know you got a little boy or little girl? Little boy. Little boy. Okay, I know what that's like. So thanks for carving some time out for me here in my little podcast. I appreciate it, man.

No worries. You give me an excuse to tap out for a little bit. Just show the Outlook calendar. Hey, listen, wife, I have something I got to do. I'm sorry. We're going from zone to man-to-man coverage. I just need to do this Toronto Mike thing. So if there was ever a doubt on whether or not you'd be able to book me,

you struck at the exact correct time. Okay, on that note well firstly i always thought maybe you could you couldn't because i do the same thing i tell my wife i'm sorry babe i gotta go into the bunker i gotta record something for you know tmds here and she understands because of course this is my job but i thought i could fake it like why not fake this like tell her oh i got like ron mclean i gotta go do a 90 minute thing thing with Ron McLean and just come down here and listen to tunes and stuff. Like you could kind of, you know. You could, depending on where your moral compass lies, you could do that.

Right. You could. I could get away with that because my wife doesn't consume all of my content. So she wouldn't exactly be able to call me on it. So yeah, I could be doing something really important that in actuality doesn't exist. But I haven't played that card yet. But we're only two months into this pandemic. So I'm not going to say I'm holier than thou. Talk to me around Labor Day and we'll see where we're at uh it's true i'm impressed your wife consumes any of your content that's how that's my wife consumes none of my content as am i i'm like listen don't you don't actually have to listen but please like favorite share subscribe um i we need to make mortgage

payments so anything you can do uh please help and your wife when i say it when i say it in those terms she she gets and your wife is uh also a member of our our illustrious media here in canada because uh she's the the kate mckenna from the social and other bell media properties she is i don't know if she's the kate mckenna like she's not ohio State or Western University where she gets a V behind or in front of her first and last name. There are a couple other Kate McKennas of some prominence because she's had to get creative

to get her handles on both Twitter and Instagram. But yes, what you're alluding to is that she is the breadwinner. She is the most decorated, most talented broadcaster. Is she behind you right now? No, she's not.

She's not. I tell her this all the time. She may argue, but I don't think it's close. And in fact, I would say in my family, I am probably the fourth most prominent broadcaster in my family. So I've got a ways to go to kind of move up on the depth chart. And I don't know where she is between one and three, but she's above me for sure. Okay, but that means there's two others above you.

Do you want to shout them out just because I have to plead a little ignorance? Who would they be? Do you want to shout them out just because I have to plead a little ignorance? Who would they be? So her mother, Sue Prestidge, is an award-winning journalist. She won a Gemini when those were things that we gave out by that name for her work covering the Olympics. She worked for CBC for a long time as an anchor and her father, recently retired from a long career in news, was a photo editor for the Globe, before that worked for the Star and a bunch of other papers, both in Toronto and Windsor. He's an acclaimed,

critically first photographer and then photo editor um and my brother actually worked in uh in sports in in pr as well but i don't think he's better than me at anything so i'll i'll take fourth for uh the journalists in the family well i always joke that you know venus had to say she was the second best tennis player in her family venus williams so you know it depends on the family fourth isn't so bad i suppose yes yeah i'll take it i'm happy with it now it's funny because when you google donovan bennett i guess you probably know this being donovan bennett but the first name i saw that came up was a i guess a notorious uh jamaican criminal yes i have i have heard yeah well and so it's funny because I'll give you a little West Indian background as that is my heritage.

So Donovan, my spelling with two N's, D-O-N-N-O-V-A-N, is not the most prolific spelling, right? You get more Donovan Bailey's, which is the one N the d-o-n-o-v-a-n so if someone has the exact spelling to me it is somewhat uncommon and so uh many people refer to me as dj and that's because i'm a junior my father uh gave me the name so uh there's him so if you you were googling me you may get get him, which is doubtful. You're more than likely going to get the gangster, which you have referred to, which, again, just luck of the draw also has the same spelling. I've actually had one person on Twitter reach out to me and say that they also had the same spelling of Donovan. But there's like old folk tales that, you know, back in the country in Jamaica, you know, you'd have this kid, then you'd send a family member to go register

the kid's name in the city. And, you know, it's like broken telephone. They tell someone else, tell someone else. And then you come back and the child's name is entirely different than what you wanted it to be or its spelling. So I'm not sure if that's how I ended up with two Ns when this name was given out, you know, whatever it was, 60-ish years ago. But I have many family members who are referred to one thing and their actual government names

are another. But yes, to answer your original question without filibustering and going on a random side tangent about naming babies in Jamaica. I am aware that there is a gangster with money. Now, Toronto Mike is one big tangent. So I think that's highly appropriate. Do that whenever you like. I was watching, again, this is a tangent actually, but I'm watching game three of the Canada Cup last night. It's on TSN, and I'm watching it because I love that series,

the 87 Canada Cup. And they do this thing where they do... It's almost like, remember pop-up video? Of course. Right. So, except... It's really, I want to say, it's once in a blue moon. You get a fun fact on the screen.

It feels like they do it every half an hour or something. Like, I would do that every 30 seconds. Like, the game is one thing. It's happening. It happened in 87. We've probably all seen it. But do pop up fun facts all over the place. I'm with you.

I love added context. I mean, myself and my wife are the people who are not just watching something. And I can actually, I'll wait, but I can see her doing it in my periphery. We're watching a documentary or some sort of biopic. She'll be Googling additional information while we watch. And she always wants more and more context. And I think as a viewer, the way we are, the way we've been socialized

is that we always want a distraction, right? We're like a baby that needs a light blinking in front of us. So I agree with your editorial taste. I would have leaned very hard into the pop-ups, assuming there was something that justifies noting. You could make a fun fact out of almost anything. There's this one scene where they're celebrating a goal. Gretzky, Lemieux, of all people,

teamed up at a goal, believe it or not. Gino Retta is on the screen. You can see Gino Retta in the crowd kind of celebrating. To me, there, he's a TSN property, if you will. I don't know if you like being called property, but he's of the same company

and you could promote and cross-promote and say, hey, this is a younger Gino Retta look at that mustache like it's all over the place fun fact every player has a several fun facts but I digress but maybe you could take it to the big wigs at Sportsnet and say I enjoyed the bat flip game again I watched it I enjoyed

watching Joe touch them all but we need pop-ups all over the place okay I like it I like that yeah I will I will steal that idea. Thank you. I appreciate it. This has already been very beneficial. That one's free. The next one's going to cost you. Okay. By the way, I will let the listeners know that

and I'm going to call you. I need to ask permission. May I call you DJ? You can call me whatever you want. Really? As long as the check clears from me appearing on your podcast since you've got 18 sponsors. Yeah, sure. Uh, so I, I say this to people, I answer to both, um, equally, if I'm walking on the street and someone yells DJ or someone yells Donovan, I'll, I'll turn the same way. What I'll notice is if someone who doesn't traditionally call me one

says the other, that just for some reason sounds weird. Right. But I, I, um, it really depends on how you met me or what point of my life you met me. Um, but I, I don't have a, I don't have a preference or, um, or anything like that. I remember I was, uh, I was in a meeting at the beginning of my career when I was being put on air and a producer who I owe lots to my career by the name of Glenn McDonald, who worked at the score at the time says, okay, well, what do you want us to key you as? You know,

is it Donovan is DJ and I was like, it doesn't matter. You tell me. And he's like, well, you know, people are around the room. This is like a production meeting for a U Sports broadcast. Like, oh, you know, what does your mother call you? And what do you like more? What sounds more professional? And I really had no preference.

I ended up skewing with Donovan only because and this was maybe some foresight as I was probably all of like 22 23 at the time only because I thought to myself if I'm gonna be you know 65 and I'm gonna be the anchor of the 6 p.m. news, which by the time I'm 65 probably is not going to be. But if I am, what's going to sound more authoritative? DJ or Donovan? You know what? There are some more insurgents in the Middle East. Let's go to DJ to break it down.

That doesn't really play. But Donovan is like, I want to know what Donovan has to say about the insurgents in the Middle East. That's basically what broke the tie is why I went with Donovan. I answer to both equally and I have no issues. So call me whatever you like.

On that note, I grew up with J.D. Roberts doing much music stuff. And he was doing Toronto Rocks. I'm way older than you, firstly. So this is what I was listening to and watching growing up. And then J.D. Roberts eventually became like a serious news guy. He works for, where is he now?

CNN? No, Fox, maybe. He's somewhere in the States working for a big news company. And he's changed it to John Roberts for the reasons you expressed there. Because JD wasn't going to fly if he's covering the White House and everything. But okay, I digress. Let me just let the listeners know

that you were in the calendar for a traditional visit to the TMDS studios here in New Toronto, which means this is when the pandemic hit. So you were in the calendar, which means you would have received a six pack of fresh beer. You would have got a lasagna from Palma Pasta and you would have got a Toronto Mike sticker,

you.com sticker. Like it was all set up. And then when the pandemic hit, we were going to move it to, I guess we're doing it by Zoom. So we're going to move it to remote. And I was against it. Like at the beginning, I was like, no,

if Donovan Bennett's in the calendar, he's coming over, we're going to do it the way I've done it. Like at the beginning, I was like, no, if Donovan Bennett's in the calendar, he's coming over, we're going to do it the way I've done it for, you know, several years. And then at some point, the weight of this whole social distancing order just sort of like, I almost want to say crush my spirits to a point where I'm like, yeah, put on Donovan.

But I realized I don't know when this will end and let's just move forward and have some great, you know, real talk episodes. So that's why you're in a closet right now talking to me instead of sitting right here.

So to let the listeners know. And, and I want to let them know that Stu Stone has personal connections to both Little Richard and Jerry Stiller. So on Friday's Pandemic Friday episode, we're going to do proper homages to Little Richard, who we just lost, and Jerry Stiller. But DJ, do you have anything you want to say

about the loss of one of the architects of rock and roll and, of course, George Costanza's father? Did you watch Seinfeld? So I was not a seinfeld uh guy which i know um the pop culture enthusiasts that listen will be very very uh upset at me about in terms of little richard um and i will also confess that I don't have a Little Richard dedicated playlist on my iPhone, but I will say there are few in any genre, and it's not necessarily denotes who are the best, but maybe the most influential. There are few in any genre who,

they become brand names, right? Like, so they are the Netflix of x or the kleenex of x where you know we're all watching the last dance right now the michael jordan of x they become so known for doing something a certain way that they are a reference point and other people are like oh this sounds like x or this person is the x and i would would say that little Richard would be one of those people. And my next thought would be, well, okay, how many of those people do we have now? If we're saying in music, like maybe we'll say in, I don't know, 15 or 20 years, like someone is the Taylor Swift of their generation because she's a great songwriter or

the beyonce of their generation because she just has this power to be able to create content and have it leak uh sorry have it not leak and just come out on netflix and it took like three years to make right so i i wonder if we're going like are we going to say oh this person's the justin bieber of our generation i don't I don't necessarily know that we are. So Little Richard, to me, is a relic to that time where we have people who not only were great at what they did, their actual existence was a definition. It stood for something. Does that make sense?

Totally. And it speaks to an era when you had that three TV stations and we all read and we all read the same, one of the daily newspapers. And they were like, you know, nowadays everything's so fragmented. I mean, there's YouTube stars, stars I've never heard of. And there's now there's TikTok star. It's just so completely fragmented. I think it's just diluted the whole icon fame. I feel like those, those John Wayne's and the, I don't know why, why did I go to John Wayne? I don't think I've even seen a John Wayne movie uh, these icons, you know, like little Richard, they're just few and far between now. We're not, we're not really making them anymore, you know, because there's just, I think there's so much, so much diversity in the fame and different channels of,

uh, of fame that there's, it's hard to be such a star. That's, that's my, uh, it's my, that's my two cents on the subject anyway. Yeah. I, I, I think you're right, but I also think the definition of a star will probably change, right? It'll be how many sponsors do you have for your podcast? How many, you know, how many followers do you have on the various social media platforms? Your influence and that capital will be spent in a different way if that makes sense so we learned here we learned that dj did not watch seinfeld which i completely like excuse that it wasn't your your cup of tea but i think i've seen like

two episodes there's an episode i believe where they like lose their the car in the parking lot which everyone can obviously appreciate i think elaine elaine maybe gets lost i know elaine can't dance i know that's a thing and there's the obviously the the super nazi um but i know i wasn't a i wasn't a seinfeld person i wasn't in or i am not i should say um i'm not really like a half hour written comedy sitcom person. Like if you, if there's a laugh track, like if you have to give someone a audio cue as to when to laugh,

like we're just going to have this applause light. I'm kind of like, I don't know. I'm kind of, and in fact, I was saying to my wife the other day, when I hear a laugh track now, it seems so,

so dated. So real time with bill maher he shows live with an audience and he's doing it from his backyard with no audience so they've put in a laugh track to simulate that type of conversation but i don't know i i'm out on i'm with laugh tracks i'm not i'm not watching like old friends episodes and finding them funny uh after the fact but But that's just me. No, I'm with you. But on the subject of television, listener Al Grego chimed in with a very interesting question. So I'll just read it verbatim here.

Is this for me? Yeah, for you. Geez, Al, you got a lot of time on your hands, man. Ask him why he's such a fan of trashy reality TV shows. And this is a backhanded compliment because he comes at you by saying he seems too intelligent for that kind of garbage TV. How do you respond?

Okay, wow, Al. Thank you. Listen, I will defend my watching of things like the Bachelor and Bachelorette series as it is a look at

interpersonal relationships. It's like this science experiment on people. No, I mean, there's no, I have no excuse. I will say this, that I do enjoy, and I think a lot about somewhat serious issues and how they pertain to myself, to the things that I'm covering, things that are not surface level.

But I do enjoy just turning my brain off for an hour or 45 minutes every once in a while. So I guess that it would be my guilty pleasure but i don't feel guilty about it whatsoever i mean there's there's difference like so we can't lump all reality tv in the same boat so jimmy kimmel is is back with millionaire and that's a fun watch to see these celebrities answer some questions that are really tough and some that are not tough whatsoever survivor i love survivor right there is a there's literally a socio-economic factor to it these people from different areas and walks of life and how do

they interact how do they they barter with with emotion with with actual bartering of you know idols and such um but also i i do think and i've made this um i've made this point and i probably shouldn't divulge it but i have said that corporate life mirrors survivor you have your alliances you have people that you're trusting to take you further you have people that oh my goodness i need to discard because I need to save myself or they're a threat or, or this person is a bigger threat than me. So it's, it's nice that they're around because they're taking some years.

So if people have worked at a corporation, there are many parallels to tribal council and the boardroom. And so I, I do enjoy reality TV, not all of it trashy um but i will say there there are times when i just a guy just needs to bang out a couple episodes of the real housewives of new jersey and think about nothing serious um i i don't feel any type of way um who's that greco who al grego al grego. Thank you for the question.

Why are you asking me questions? Who cares what I think, Al? That's my question for you. People do care what you think. I am very friendly with the director of communications at Twitter Canada. When he found out you were coming on, you know what he said to me? He said, that guy gets it. I don't know exactly what that means,

but to me, I'm hoping one day somebody says something similar about me. Just somebody at some point say, that guy gets it. You get it. Maybe that's why I've been blessed to be verified. So thank you, Cam Gordon. Hey, that is Cam Gordon.

You know him, yeah. Who you're referencing, who's been a great asset and giving me analytics on all things Twitter. Because that's our new newspaper, is it not? Yeah, I'm on it all day. Twitter moments, right? Or just the mentions.

I think in the same way we had the sports section, we grew up in the arts and life section and entertainment section, Twitter has become our newspaper, we're going to, you know, the sports area of, of the moments for the day, or the news area, or the, you know, the entertainment. The only difference is, with, with the newspaper, if we were reading it online, you could choose if you wanted to scroll down and read the comments. Well, on Twitter, you kind of have no choice. The comments and the content are all packaged together in the exact same place.

Right. And these days, you know, there's not a lot of sports to follow. So as we kind of, I'm going to talk to you a bit about Sportsnet and then we're going to get serious and leave Sportsnet. But let's get you to Sportsnet. What is more serious than Sportsnet? My big question right now is the obvious, which is how is Sportsnet adapting in a world that doesn't have live sports? I know that's a big one, right?

That's a heavy one. But how is it going over there without the sports? either doing or planning to do. And this was just a blank canvas, literally, to try things and to put some things into overdrive. So you mentioned the Jose Bautista watch party. That's something that inevitably we would have done. Now, would we have necessarily had Jose Bautista as a guest? Would we have done it for past games and not present games?

I don't know. It may have looked a bit different and felt different, but we were moving in that direction anyways. And it was just a matter of how we executed it. But we put together a digital incubator, for lack of a better term, a group that was solely tasked with tell stories on the platforms that people are residing. And for those platforms, let's not take something that was on

the radio and throw it on the internet or take something that was TV and throw it on the web. Let's actually create with those places in mind. So you mentioned Kim Gordon at Twitter. We took information about how people use Twitter and YouTube and Instagram and Facebook, how they use them kind of alike and how they use them entirely differently and thought, okay, let's reimagine our content and be able to put it in those places so that it succeeds. And if it ends up being something that is financially beneficial, then great. But more importantly, if it grows our audiences on those platforms, and if it grows our brand, then that's perfect, then we're winning.

And I don't know about you, but if you look at the amount of time through this time, this pandemic, that I've spent on screens, like we get that report weekly of how much time you've spent on your screens. Often the vast majority of my waking time is interacting with some sort of screen. So we put together a squad.

We call it the Digi squad internally consists of myself, Hazel Kamisa, Danielle Michaud, a cast of characters behind the scenes and other contributors, not just us. It is of our chief concern, but Steve Dangle contributes, you know, all of our writers and hosts contribute. And the whole point was let's create content for the web. So you've seen that with the stuff that we've done during this period of time when people are not necessarily looking to interact with their television because they know that

live games are not going to be there at 7 or 7.30 or 10 or 10.30, but we're still interacting with our phones. We're still interacting with our computer screens. So we've kind of decided, okay, how can we speak to not just Canadians, but phone and tablet users on the platforms that they are and create content for them. So this has just been a period to kind of really lean in and try some stuff to see what works because what, like if nothing, nothing lost, only something gained at this moment right now so i think we've been in that mode and this is just accelerated it the the biggest i guess change to me would be the level of collaboration right like i i don't know about you but as a creator i'm a consensus builder i love getting people's feedbacks i love love talking through ideas. I love not just, you know, the process of being on air for Tim and Sid's show when I'm filling in for one of those guys. I love being in the meeting at 12 and 1230 and talking about ideas

and going back and forth. Some of the best conversations never make the air. They're in that room. What should be the lead? Why? Okay. Well, what are our supporting arguments? What, what, what supporting sound do we want or viz? What, what boards should we show? All of that is the process that I really, really love. And it makes sense because as an athlete, I loved watching film and film sessions and talking about things. I love to practice. So now we're all literally isolated, right? We all are creating in isolation and losing that collaborative piece of what we do, I think is the biggest hit for me, both in terms of the end product, but spiritually, I love that part of the process as well. No doubt. And this is a great segue because you mentioned you were an athlete and

maybe this is the bridge. So why don't you now just step back? So we talked about how things are happening now without the live sports, but you know, live sports will return. Let's talk about how did you end up in sports media and like at Sportsnet? Can you give us the, the quick,

the quick story there? So, I mean, the quick story is I wasn't good at anything else. So I had no choice. And not only was I not

good at anything else, but just my sensibilities would not allow me to work a traditional nine to five cubicle job. I would, I would go crazy. I'd be a terrible person to be around and I would be a terrible employee. So I went to school at the university of Western Ontario and I played football there. And as you I'm sure have seen, I did not win the genetic lottery. So a long career in the CFL as a Canadian running back at five foot nine,

170 pounds was not in the cards. So you kind of get that crossroads towards my end of my time there of, okay, I need to, I need to figure out what's next. And the only other thing that I was passionate about in terms of when I was not playing sports was its coverage, but just talking about it, writing about it, literally every single project, if I could find a way in school, in high school and university would be somehow tied to sports. I did an economics presentation when I was in grade 11, and it was about the Larry Bird exemption of the NBA CBA.

Like that's the type of stuff that I was thinking about. Everything had a tie to sports, so much so that my mom would always say, if you could remember your calculation tables the same way you remember sports stats you would be a much better student i'm like yeah the calculation tables were as interesting than i probably would uh so luckily memorizing sports stats is now part of my job but at western i knew okay i need to lean in on covering sports because playing it is is no longer going to be an option as soon as this eligibility runs out.

So I reached out to the alumni resources that we had and some coaches and the score was covering college football at the time. And Dwayne Ford, who now works at TSN, was the color analyst for the score. And so I, I so he was also a Western alum, also a football player, also a running back, also from Toronto. So I reached out to him. We had all these things in common. And for whatever reason, he kind of took an affinity to me

and took me under his wing. And I would call him and pick his brain about the industry and I needed to get my foot in the door because I was hearing time and time again oh well you just don't have enough experience for this internship and I was like well I'm coming to you for experience this is this is a double-edged sword and so he helps me out he gets um me an internship basically after I told him man like, like, I will stalk you. I'll do whatever I have to. I need an internship at the score. And so he didn't want me showing up in his bushes, scaring his wife and family. So I interned under him at the score on a show called

CFL Snap in the summer and on holidays when I wasn't at Western playing football what James Cebulski was the host at the time and I would continue to come back and help out just wanted them to remember my name and my face I went back and played my last year of football but when I left I said to you know the producer hey listen I know you guys have the Vanier Cup this year for the first time it's a big deal for you I'm fully planning planning on winning it, but for whatever reason, if I don't, I'd love to come back and help you with your coverage. I was thinking that would be, you know, Hey, player gets knocked out of the playoffs. He's,

he's in the studio giving us analysis or in the booth. Not so much. I helped him out and I was like rolling cable. I was on the phone in the booth behind Tim McAuliffe, like whispering, trying to basically tell the people in the truck where the ball was going to be spotted. Thus they could put the imaginary first downline in correspondence with that. So I flew myself out to Saskatchewan where the Vanny Cup was being held that year on my own dime, put myself up in a hotel and said, I'm willing to do whatever I can. I just want to be out here and help and learn. They're like,

listen, we can't pay for anything, but if you want to come out, we can, we can help you out. And in my head, I'm like, dude, what are you doing? Like really? And they were asking me like, really, you want to do this? I'm like, yeah, totally. Money. I had earmarked for spring break, put it towards a flight to, uh, to Regina. Right. And help them out. But what I got was like an education that was greater than any education.

I want to God at Western there that week. And this was a big deal for the score. It was their live event. It was like their super bowl. I got to see cabbie work up close and personal, obviously Dwayne Ford, Tim McAuliffe, uh,

James Cebulski Adnan Burke was hosting Sarah Oleski was hosting Sid Cicero was hosting so it was like the who's who of our industry many people who would go on to do much greater things than what they were doing at that point I got to see them work uh firsthand and what they got to see was that I was really really serious about my craft. And not just them. There's a bunch of people behind the scenes. Don Landis, who is like the director in Canada. She directed the Royal Wedding for CTV that shows you her level, not just sports. They got to see like, yeah, this guy's serious. And so go back to school, finish up my studies.

And luckily, you know, I got a headstart from the rest of my graduating class and I got a job at the score and like closed captioning. And I've just worked my way up ever since and done something for free and did some sideline reporting in college football and then did some features for college football. And that turned into NCAA basketball features, which turned into NBA features, which turned into me producing the features because I had so many on the go. which turned into me producing the features because I had so many on the go. And it's just built and built and built and built until, you know, somehow Toronto Mike asked me to come bore him about it on his podcast. Don't worry, I'll edit all that out.

Just kidding. That was great stuff. Great stuff. Please, please do. Does Sportsnet essentially, Sportsnet buys the score? is that basically how you end up at sportsnet they gobble them up but yeah so i actually funny enough and i guess i can tell the story because none of the executives um that i was talking to no none of them currently work at Sportsnet. They've all since left. But when I was actually in negotiations to leave the score and go to Sportsnet, and I was talking with them back and forth. And all of a sudden, I get a call from a journalist. And they said, what do you know about

Sportsnet buying the score and Rogers buying that property? And I'm thinking, well, nothing until you just told me. But at that point, basically because of the negotiations and the sale, all of the executives, they couldn't talk to any Sportsnet or sorry, they couldn't talk to any current, the score employees. So they had to cease and desist all negotiations. And any leverage I would have had in negotiating would have been gone because they would have been able to open up the books and saw how long I worked there and exactly what I made.

Luckily, what that did was I had already had conversations about what my life could be like at Sportsnet, already talked to the execs about how they could use me. So I ended up going over in the merger. But I guess my runway in terms of the transition that we all had to make as these are the score orphans being, you know, swallowed by this bigger company was a little bit easier because I was already talking to people in, in high positions over there. Um, but yeah, I was one of the people who, uh, who came over in the over in the big acquisition. Who else came over?

Remind me what other Sportsnet people we got from that acquisition. So it's often referred that Tim and Sid came over, which is actually incorrect. They had already made the move prior, and they were on the fan. And actually, one of the nice unintended consequences of the merger was I could now go back on their radio show, which I obviously couldn't when we were working for competitors. But myself, Danielle Michaud, Basil Kamisa came over. Who else? Who else is there? Those three,

like just those three names. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Danielle yet, but Faisal's been here and I can tell you that you're three rising stars in sports net as far as like, it's quite the, it's worth buying. It's worth buying up another broadcast outlet just for you three. Yeah, we've,

I mean, we've been able to do a lot digitally and been i suppose the faces of that digital squad but i mean we all um we kind of see each other as teammates if you will like we're all part of a bigger team but we're like line mates if anything we're the the legion of doom i suppose um and uh and danielle is definitely uh lindros um but the nice thing is is although we we have fun and we love working together we've all been able to spread our wings and do some different things so basil has you know done sidelines for minor hockey and it's gotten a couple looks doing hockey night danielle you know has made this seamless transition into being a

sideline reporter for the raptors i've been able to obviously work on podcasts but i write for the website as well danielle has her own you know late night hockey show for, for, for YouTube. Faisal, you know, for the, for the better part of our Instagram existence has been the face of our Instagram stories. So yeah, we, we, we are more alike for sure than we are different, but we have some differences that I think round out the group a little bit. But yeah, I mean, if, if,

if they're Jordan and Pippen, I'm like just happy to be Kukoc and Ron Harper and come along for the ride and win a couple of championships. Oh man. I haven't seen yes. Well, I guess it's today, right? What day is this Monday? Okay. I get confused. I know the Americans, it's Monday. Okay. Just confirm. I know the Americans.icans but doesn't matter i know another tangent because that's what i like but the americans get last dance on sunday nights right because uh they're they're watching it on espn on sunday nights and we get it monday on netflix and every monday night i watch the two

new episodes so i haven't seen the two new episodes that some people might have already seen but i i will just quick aside because i know you're watching it, that I just am madly in love with this series. I remember that season and I loved them. In a pre-Raptors world, I was huge on the Bulls. And then, of course, when the Raptors stunk, I was still kind of loving the Jordan Bulls. And I'm just thoroughly enjoying The Last Dance. Yeah, I have as well. And I think a lot of people going into it made the comparison to Made in America, the O.J. Simpson 10-part series, 30 done by

Ezra. And I get the comparisons, but I love the fact that this is similar in the level of production, but entirely different. Like if you want a deep dive in, you know, how society and fame, you know, kind of makes and breaks a person and that it's like a perfect opus for, you know, all of those things. But this is just a nice, nostalgic, retrospective look at a time in music and a time certainly in sport, in basketball, in marketing, and being able to hear from the important people of that time with enough time removed from it that they can speak honestly about it, but also close enough to it that like the footage isn't totally grainy and it doesn't seem like it was from a thousand years ago it still is entertaining so i i really have loved um you know being able to time travel back to the

to the 90s and and place myself back in in uh in that time it's been a 90s and place myself back in that time. It's been a fun watch. And you mentioned the music. Yeah, the music's fantastic too. So it really does, again, I have a few years on you, but it really does bring you back nicely. So I'm thoroughly enjoying it. And back to the trifecta there of the people we got from the merger,

or it was acquisition, I guess, whenever the score was acquired by Rogers, is that one thing, for better or worse, it seemed, and I'll speak to this as a, I'll disclose to you, Donovan, that I am a white man. So I'm just going to say that right off the top so we're clear on that. But there seemed to be a very white man-centric sports media uh world

here in canada and the perspectives from fazel yourself and danielle uh are not those of of uh yet another white white white guy yeah true i to be honest it's actually the the single fact that i'm probably most proud of in that digital group. And it's not just us, we're the faces of it, right? Like a black guy, a brown guy and a female. And I'm sure there's a bunch of people who, who hate that that is the fact. But when you look at our group behind the scenes, like Adrian Chetty, who is a guy who is the front man. A lot of the features that I produce is of Guyanese descent. You know, when you look at our group, the group emails, there's lots of vowels in the last names, right? A lot of people from diverse backgrounds, not all visible minorities, but many who are from ethnic backgrounds,

who are first and second generation Canadians. And so it's not just diversity in looks, but diversity of thought and experience. And I do think that luckily, our GM, John Coleman, has been able to put together this team and given us basically the internet to run and to play with

and to try some things and have some wins, but also fail and fail fast. But I do think that it is representative of, I think, people who consume things on the internet in this country. The point that you make that a lot of times television does not look like Canada or North America or the world. And so people often go and seek the representation that they hope to find. And they do that via the internet. And that's the beauty of the nice equalizer that you can go on YouTube and you can find a voice or a perspective that is speaking to your experience or your culture. And so I think we have just been a reflection of the way people consume things.

And when you mentioned the score, a lot of the people in that team, not just the three faces of it, but Graham Campbell, the guy who manages it, you know, on down are all score babies. A lot of people who came from the score and there's different types of diversity. There's obviously diversity in gender and race, but Stéphane Perre, a guy who is one of the editors and editorial geniuses of the group, he is part of the LGTBQ plus community.

So again, I think when we think of inclusion and diversity, people just think of, oh, like you're talking about having more females or having more minorities. And I think it's having, to be honest, people of disabilities be a part of that conversation more and more and more. And it's been proven that Fortune 500 companies who are more diverse, they outperform their counterparts who aren't. I think the Toronto Raptors are a great example of sports organizations who are more diverse, having that be a catalyst to greater successes. And hopefully, you know, with that digital group being a small example of that, that hopefully that grows and grows and becomes the norm, not just at SportsCenter or Rogers, but in our entire industry. And one of the benefits, advantages of having a more diverse broadcast team is the diversity of the stories that you can bring to us and from the different perspectives.

And I was wondering if you could take a moment maybe and just tell us a little bit about speaking with Willie O'Ree. Willie O'Ree is the first black man to play in the NHL. And it's one of those things we know is like a barroom trivia. I feel like we know it as, hey, that's a fun fact. You can do a barroom trivia. But I feel we don't really know, we don't really appreciate what it was like for Willie O'Ree. And maybe could you share a little bit about having the pleasure of interviewing him? Yeah, I've had the pleasure to talk to him and interview him a couple times. And he's such a gentleman, so classy and so gracious. And I'm so happy and proud that he was able to go into the Hall of Fame when he was alive, when he was able to see it and witness it and experience it.

And there was a bunch of haters like, oh, you know, his stats don't justify him being in the Hall of Fame. It was like, you're missing the point. Like, you don't get it. Like, he has given to the game in inspiration much more than what he did during his current career. And what I love about his story is that it's ongoing. He is still doing so much work with grassroots initiatives, with speaking tours. And there's a documentary about him that's outstanding. He's in the community trying to make the game of hockey more inclusive.

And he's part of sports history and hockey history, but he's also part of Canadian history and part of Canadian black history. And it's something I wanted to highlight in a Hockey Night essay that I had the pleasure to do that we need to celebrate him. The same way that Americans celebrate Jackie Robinson, we as Canadians need to celebrate Willie O'Ree. I say all the time, I wish we celebrated Viola Desmond the way that Americans celebrate Rosa Parks. Viola Desmond was Rosa Parks before Rosa Parks. Thankfully, she's got her just due and she is on our bill uh you know the first female that was not um you know royalty uh to be on our

bill she's royalty in my eyes but yeah so is willie he's such a um a humble man but but when he speaks people listen and i actually spent some time with him during TIFF, you know, when his documentary was being shown there. It's a great initiative that's done where they bring in school kids and they show films to them as kind of like an out-of-class lesson. And Willie's in the back of the theater.

And none of these young kids knew he was there. And they probably didn't know much about him before watching the film. But in the film, when he gets the call that he's in the hall, the kids start clapping, start cheering. They're getting up. They're jumping for joy. And like sometimes young kids get it in a way that us adults don't right and willie was just in the back of the theater tearing up and i was able to watch that watch him

watch that reaction and um you know uh cam gordon you know said i get it man i think like the the youth among us get it and uh i wish that we as a country of adults celebrated Willie the way that those kids did in that theater. So my big question is why don't we, do we have a hypothesis? Like why, why don't we appreciate Willie O'Ree? I'm not sure if you heard or paying attention,

but hockey culture had a bit of a reckoning, uh, recently. It wasn't exactly smooth or comfortable for many. I mean, I think that like, listen, you have a segment of people who feel a specific ownership over something for a long period of time. And when they lose that ownership, they feel like part of them is being lost. And I will say that, let's forget about morals, right?

And just, oh, it would feel good if we all carried Willie O'Reilly on our shoulders and championed him and used him as a great example that young black kids can have a life in the game of hockey. Like, yay, that sounds so great. All that aside, as a simple business proposition, like the model of the sport, the sport needs to become more inclusive for it to continue to be profitable.

Like, you need to widen your fan base to open up your tent. Like this is just something that we know, not to go back to economics, but it's a math proposition at this point. So in order for the sport to continue to thrive and excel, they need to be in line with the tanning of the country, right? Just look at our immigration patterns. Look at our demographics and the way it's shifting. The fan base is changing. The country is changing. And so I think that's, for no other reason, that's a reason why we need to and why we should.

And this is not an NHL issue. Like Gary Bettman gets this. He spent lots of money investing in this. But I think when the trickle on down to, you know, the minor hockey associations and junior hockey in our country, in the United States, I think that's where the cultural change needs to happen. But I'm confident slowly but surely it will.

Yeah, no doubt. I just had a flashback of speaking of the social. I just remembered the whole Don Cherry social thing pre-COVID. These were very important things. You're referring to the infamous Jess Allen comments? Yes. And I hope she's not, but I'm willing to bet she still gets the odd, I don't know, I'm probably close to death threats, I would think, based on what I remember happening at the time.

It's been a while now. Well, sadly, not close to. That would be, your assertion would be accurate. And I mean, I don't know about death threats, but I still know that she gets dragged on Twitter. on Twitter I know this because I still get dragged on Twitter as being someone who like once in a tweet defended her when you know all of this was happening and I wasn't even defending necessarily what she said because I I think I understand her sentiment and what she was saying what she was trying to communicate right she probably you know if given another chance, could have articulated it better. But I mean, this is live TV. And I know better

than most when that red light comes on, things that come out of your mouth don't exactly sound the way they do in your head. But I think ultimately, what has been lost or what has been edited out of what she said is when she started with my experience with me, she wasn't saying every single or I know for a fact she's saying my interaction with this community has been this. That's why you get this sort of culture. And in fact, what ended up happening was an affirmation of how she felt because she felt that people in the hockey community in her past had bullied her. And the reaction to that was to bully her. So my point was you're kind of proving her point by dragging her on Twitter all day, every day.

And people, I'm not really sure how they have the time or energy, but are still tweeting about her and that show. every day and people i'm not really sure how they have time or energy but are still tweeting about her in that show um and i mean it's not it's not unique to to her um it it seems like we are in such a divisive time in society whether it's geopolitical issues or race issues or freedom of speech issues. You're either on one side or the other. And it's not like, okay, well, two smart minds can differ. It's, well, if you disagree with me, you're the devil. And people seem to cherry pick one detail and decide that was the entire story. Because I can't tell you, you probably experienced this tenfold if I experienced it, but how many people said Don Cherry was fired for defending veterans

and promoting Remembrance Day? Like people sort of cherry pick that one part, like maybe 10 details all intermixed, and they take that one and they amplify it as this was everything. And it's almost like to to to suit your cause or to to align with your your your beliefs that you take into it you yeah you cherry pick that one and you say okay uh i'm right and you're all wrong and it's it's dangerous and it and it doesn't help with what we were just talking about with opening up hockey and uh

in accepting uh everyone into this fantastic game well i think it's also in the way we consume things and so i guarantee you the vast majority of people who are still dragging her on twitter or me for supporting her did not watch the entire segment in full probably have no relationship with her and her stances on things um before after that. They just heard that she said this thing and they disagreed with it. I actually, and it's against my better judgment, but I did it recently. I posted a story on Michael Jordan's famous line, Republicans buy sneakers too. And it was an article basically talking about me

as a Jordan lover as a kid and loving the shoes and still loving the shoes and respecting him as an athlete, struggling to reconcile with him saying that, but also understanding that whatever he wants and to be as political or apolitical as he wants to be. We lost you for a moment. I don't want to miss the sense of what you were saying there. We lost you for like three seconds but it might have, could you repeat this in point? Yeah, sure. So I recently was on Facebook looking at the interaction of a piece that I did about Jordan's famous comments, you know, Republicans buy sneakers too.

his player and loving his right to be political or apolitical, but also being really disappointed that he had such a platform and so much power and he, at his height, didn't use it. But also understanding that there's different ways for empowerment. And he's done a lot of work with economic empowerment as one of the only Black billionaires. But also he's done a lot of work in the civil area since that people don't really give him credit for because they just remember that one quote. And the conversation in the comments of that post, it's as if nobody read any part of the article. They just saw the headline and they were debating, you know, whether or not it was okay for Jordan to like Republicans, which is not what he was saying, or if you should stick to sports,

not have politics in your sports. And I actually commented, I was like, I love the discourse. I love how engaged all of you are, but did any of you actually read the article? And we know like, can Gordon be able to give you these stats better than I can? But we know that the vast majority of links that are shared on, name your social media platform, Twitter, Facebook, whatever, that the person sharing the link, they themselves did not read the link. They just saw a headline. They're like, oh, yeah, that jives with me.

I'm going to share it. Or they saw the headline and they're like, oh, I hate this. And they're going to quote, tweet it, tweet it with a snarky comment and pass it on. So what you have is this echo chamber of people who follow people who believe what they believe, get shown the same things over and over again, and never actually one, have conversations with people on the other side, but two, have full conversations with the things they're interacting with. And it becomes a place where, instead of promoting more discourse and learning more,

you're just screaming at each other from opposite sides of the room. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. And before we get too far away from Willy O'Ree, and I just checked the time and I realize it's already been an hour, so I promise you this, you're going to make it. You're going to make it. The light is at the end of the tunnel here.

But the Willie O'Ree conversation, we talked about him, the first black player to play in the NHL. But I was hoping you could tell us a little bit about your conversations with Harrison Brown and Jessica Platt, because these are two current trailblazers that I bet you the vast majority of listeners know nothing about. Yeah, they are both trans athletes in hockey.

Harrison Brown was playing in the NWHL. Jessica Platt was playing in the C here in Canada when it was a league. And yeah, so it's funny because as an athlete, someone who's grown up around athletics, you always think of as your body being that vehicle to allow you to achieve in sports, allow you to do more. And it was fascinating for me. And again, it's a privilege that I suppose I have, and thus it's a blind spot that I didn't really understand. It was illuminating for me to talk to these two people who said, listen, they didn't feel like themselves in their body. And as much as they loved sport, it was an uncomfortable arena for them to be in because they were trying to reconcile, why do I feel this way about my body?

Do I want to make the decision to change my body? But if I do, what does that mean for my sporting career? Having to unpack all of those things for both of them relatively young ages was really important. And it's not a conversation that we really had. And I will say this, that as much as hockey gets dragged for being decades behind other sports, that is a conversation that we had in the sport of hockey. other sports, that is a conversation that we had in the sport of hockey. And I don't think it's coincidence that it's a conversation that was spurned by two people who are Canadian. And we haven't had similar conversations in the other female sports. And you can't tell me that there aren't other people, athletes or trans athletes, who are struggling the same way.

So I do applaud them, not only for the courage that they've shown throughout their transition, but also throughout their careers, but also the courage that they've shown being willing to talk about and being advocates for people going through the exact same thing. What is the future for you, DJ? You're bright, you're well-spoken, you're cross-platform, I like to say. You're digital-friendly, as Cam said, you get it.

So where do you want to go in your sports? Or maybe do you want to stick to sports? Do you see yourself, I don't know, end up hosting the National or something? Like, where do you want to go in your career? I don't think Ian Hanamansingh is looking over his shoulder. I think... Well, you know, he's not even the host.

They switched it up to... He's there, but he's not the host. There's two others who host that show now. Yeah. Adrian and Andrew both do a good job. Ian's there on the weekend. not the host there's two others who host that show now yeah um yeah adrian and andrew who both do a good job ian's there on the weekend but no i don't i don't think i'm gonna be hosting news um and i'm sure this clip will be replayed like in 25 years when i'm eventually hosting news uh i so i get i used to get asked that all the time by you know executives and managers oh where

do you see yourself where do you want to be and i I never really had a great answer. And now it's flipped where I get that question by aspiring journalists, by young kids. Oh, you know, where do you see yourself? What do you want to do? And I'll say I don't have a good answer because there is no answer. When I was getting in the industry, I really wanted to be an anchor. I really wanted to do highlights and sports highlights. And luckily, that wasn't the path. Frankly, I wasn't all that good at it. But more importantly, it just didn't really resonate with me. It didn't jive with me.

I ended up finding other avenues of paths that made a lot more sense and that I was more accustomed to and suited to. So I'm not really sure because if we had this conversation 15 years ago, I would have said I wanted to anchor a show. And if we had this conversation 10 years ago, I would not have said I want to host content for Sportsnet on Instagram or Twitter. I would have said, what are those things? So this is what I do know. I want to continue to be having meaningful conversations on platforms that matter and increasingly with people that matters. And hopefully if I continue to do a good job, that'll happen. But nothing that has happened that's been good in my career is something that I kind

of put on a whiteboard and said, this is the vision I'm going and getting it. It all came from kind of knowing what my strengths were, trying to, you know, highlight those strengths and work towards them. And in the meantime, kind of working on my weaknesses and my Achilles heels and hoping they become strength. So like if someone called me today and said, you know, you are going to have a show that's like the Patriot on Netflix, Hasan Minhaj's show. It's just about sports. I'm like, yeah, that sounds really exciting. I'd love to do that.

But that's not I don't have a destination or a goal. I just want to continue to do great things like Being a podcast host was never a goal of mine, and now I'm on three podcasts. Shout them out for me, because I know you're doing the Sports Unpause one right now, which is excellent with Richard. So shout them all out for me. Yeah, so Sports Unpause with Richard Deitch,

which is our look at the intersection, the nexus between COVID-19 and the coronavirus and sports. That has been fun. I'm hoping it doesn't last very long because I'm hoping we get back to normal and there's nothing to talk about. But in this pause period, we're kind of using it as a way to speak to sports fans and tell them what they want to know and not in a way that they won't feel guilty about caring about when leagues are going to come back or what they might look like when they do,

but also use the opportunity to maybe do some service and point out some great journalism that's being done or some important issues around coronavirus that people need to really know. So that's that. The other podcast that I co-host at Sportsnet is Free Association, our NBA podcast, and so there's kind of our look at all things Raptors. That's with JD Bunkus. And then for the CFL, I co-host along with Davis Sanchez, the Waggle podcast, which is a weekly look at all things CFL, which has been something I've something I've done, uh,

for just over a year and it's been really fun. Would you consider, uh, working with your wife? Um, I mean, we, we do, uh, work for competitors. Correct. I am sleeping with the enemy. um it would i suppose um it would it would force one of us to uh to switch sides and capture the flag and go go the other way um i would consider working with her i mean to be honest i do work with her like i will pick her brain about things in our industry all the time and vice versa.

So she is a big champion and supporter of mine, even though she doesn't consume most of my content. But I would consider working with her. Now, the real question is, would she consider working with me? We have done some things together. We actually did a pilot of a of like a relationship podcast uh together um which was well received but we obviously didn't end up doing it because life got in the way we we have actually co-hosted um our fair share of events and uh co-hosted

or co-emceed weddings uh often it's like that's like the play is they kind of, they get a package deal between us. And so in ushering in some marriages, ours has almost ended a couple of times. But I would consider working with her for sure. I mean, she's talented. She's smart. She has great integrity.

She is amongst the type of people that i'm trying to surround myself in my work life and i have had the pleasure of doing so so far at sports so i would i would uh consider working with her i am i probably shouldn't divulge this either um but there was a um there was once a conversation about doing a morning show with her. Wow. I'll say that. As you know, it didn't happen. But that actually was like a legit consideration. Move over, Ben Mulrooney.

Here comes DJ Bennett. I think that's what I'm hearing there. Now, Marlon. I did not say what platform the morning show was. It was a show in the morning. But I think Ben's seat is quite close. I'm just trying to get you into a little trouble here. But Marlon's a big fan.

And I really am, sir. This is winding down. I know you're like, I got to go. I got to go. It's winding down. It's all good. I'm just filibustering and answering in long stanzas. So you can ask me anything i know but it doesn't work on toronto mike because i'll just do three four hours i don't care so marlin says uh great question i love this question i

want you to be honest i know you've been honest so far oh would you consider a job in the usa no i mean i shouldn't say i wouldn't say no because everyone you're walking that back already everyone has a price or a situation um but it is not a goal of mine i do think often as canadians we have an inferiority complex where we think like, Oh, you have to go to the United States to make it, to be big or to validate your career. And I think many Canadians have gone to the United States and had great success.

And that was the appropriate decision for themselves in their career. But I do know that my family is here. My, not just myself, but my extended family. And the biggest driver in what I do is my family. So for me to be driven elsewhere to do it wouldn't make sense. So I have no itch to. Again, I would never say never. I would consider the Dan Schulman deal. Now, I'm not

nearly as talented as Dan Schulman, but Dan Schulman was the biggest voice around college sports and baseball for a decade. And he was chilling in Markham most of the time. So if there was a scenario where I could still spend a predominant amount of time in Canada, but pay taxes to Uncle Sam and work in the United States, I would consider it. But we live in the greatest country in the world. So I'm not in a rush to leave. And not to tie that question to what I'm going to ask you about now which is quite a bit heavier here but I did see on the socials

I saw that you went for a run for Ahmaud Arbery on what would have been his 26th birthday and I'm so like even talking to you right now I'm so like completely even talking to you right now, I'm so like completely like, uh, disturbed by that recording. We've all, most of us have seen, like, I can't, I don't, I have trouble even talking about it except that it, it, it looks to me like, um, a couple of, uh, rednecks go out and, and hunt, hunt and kill a man because of the color of his skin.

And I, I, I find it so gross and disturbing. a man because of the color of his skin. And I find it so gross and disturbing. I saw you on Twitter, you did a little run for him on what would have been his birthday the other day. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that certainly, those occurrences and the frequency with which they happen is no question a detriment to me potentially moving in the United States and really raising my young son in the United States. But I do also think that we have a false sense of security here in Canada. And even though I just said 45 seconds ago that we are the greatest country in the world we are not without our problems and we're not without our problems when it comes to race um when it comes to uh socio-economic issues

um and i think what struck me about uh ahmaud's story is um i mean in the tweet i said it right like we're kind of used to driving while black, like, that's part of the rules of engagement, and we kind of get it, you know, as our fathers tell us, you know, keep your hands at 10 and 2, and, you know, say yes, sir, no, sir, and make sure you don't reach for anything. We understand that, you know, you may be pulled over while you're in a car, and it could be a precarious situation. And so you need to be prepared, but part of the rules of engagement of getting exercise, that shouldn't be losing your life. I went to, I went to school in, I went to school in Buffalo,

my first year of university. And then I went to school in London, Ontario after that, and I transferred from Canisius college to Western. And it is an American issue, no question. And I did see, you know, the layered burden of race when I was in the United States. But I will also say that when I was a student at the University of Western Ontario,

and I love London, I love my time there, but I was pulled over upwards of 20 times in like a two year span when I had a car and I've never consumed a drug, never sold a drug. I've never had anything illegal on my person. But yet I've been pulled been pulled over as I said upwards of 20 times so I do feel that we live in a world where you're not always judged by the content of your character as as Martin Luther, you know, dreamed his kids would be. And so it is a worry for my kids. And I think the thing that really hits me about it is like as a black man, you can never feel comfortable.

You're always at alert and tense and can be surprised, right? So if you go look back at our history, like we were slaves and we were surprised to be thrown on a ship and taken from our native land and brought to other countries and worked. That was a surprise when your descendants' lives change. And fast forward to now where, you know,

you could be minding your own business and be surprised with a near-death experience. So whether it's Trayvon Martin, you know, walking home from a corner store, or it's Ahmaud Bradbury, you know, running and getting some exercise, that surprise can be fatal. So it's something that sticks with me as a Black man, but it also, I think, informs the way I try and use my platform and use the bit of representation I have being a somewhat public figure because I know that there aren't a lot of people who look like me who have that platform to speak on things like it. Well, I'm glad that your voice is being heard and I'm super delighted that we did this episode. In fact, I'm going to at some point, hopefully I can restrain myself and at least wait a few months, but I'm going to ask you to come on again.

I hope you'll still take my calls uh yeah this was i mean this was easy i just need to to dribble the ball out uh and have the shot clock elapse and just talk and filibuster and say stuff that nobody cares about that you'll edit out later and then i can avoid any and all tough questions this was light work. Thanks again. And before I have you on again, though, I have to see if Kate will accept an invitation to come on, and then I could find out if she'd ever work with you. She is a tougher get than I am. Have your people contact her people,

and maybe you could get a meeting. But I'll put in a good word for you. Contact her people and maybe you could get a meeting. But I'll put in a good word for you. And that brings us to the end of our 643rd show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Donovan, tell everybody the various ways they can connect with you on social media platforms. Yeah, it's pretty simple.

At Donovan Bennett. D-O-N-N. Two N's to make it difficult. O-V-E-A-N-B-E-N-N-E-T-T. I know it's not a lot of N's. I apologize. West Indian parents, it's what they do. That's the handle on Instagram.

That's the handle on Twitter. And that's me on Facebook as well. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. The Kytner Group are at The Kytner Group. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. And Garbage

Day are at GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike. Sign up today. And see you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business

and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.