Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Doug Smith: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1951

Episode Date: August 13, 2026

In this 1951st episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Toronto Star Raptors reporter Doug Smith about what the heck is going on with the Kawhi Leonard trade, how he improves the team, Vince Carter, the shot, the ABA, Rogers and so much more.A version of this podcast without programmatic ads is available to all Toronto Mike'd Patrons at patreon.com/torontomike.Toronto Mike'd, an award-winning podcast, is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca.If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, my name is Doug Smith. I'm a Toronto Star Basketball Reporter. I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but there's never been a raptor season without me involved in it. So I've been around a long time, but I'm very, very proud to be making an in-person debut in the basement here at Tom Toronto Mike. Welcome to episode 1,951 of Toronto Mike.

an award-winning podcast. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great Lakesbeer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Visit palma Pasta.com for more. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Catch a game at Christiast.

Pits this summer. No ticket required. Fusion Corp's own Nick IEDs. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline. And Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recyclemyelectronics.c.a.cometing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. Today.

making his in-person Toronto Mike debut. It is indeed Doug Smith. Doug, can you believe that is the first time we have ever met each other? I know. It's the first time that I've been here. We did the one show when I was in, I believe, Minnesota at a rapper game a couple of years ago. February 2020. 22, wow.

I know. I took a note. I took a note. So, yes, so you were already an FOTM, the means friend of Toronto Mike. And we did do it. via Zoom in February 2020. Do you want to hear the description I wrote at the time, Doug? Sure, why not?

Because I want to know how I changed. Okay, in this episode of Toronto Mike, Mike chats with Toronto Stars Doug Smith about his career in sports media, being there for the Joe Carter home run. That's exciting. Covering the Raptors from day one through the 2019 championship.

And of course, beyond, I put in parentheses, and more. So really, we just did like the, A to Z of Doug Smith's career up to February 2022. But here you are in the basement. I know, and I can add, I think there won't be half a dozen of us who saw the Joe Cort, Carter, home run and the Quay Leonard shot.

Oh, could you name that half dozen if you had to guess? I don't know, I won't hold you to it. I would guess. Do you have any names you could? Steve Simmons would have been in the crowd. Okay. Probably Leo Routens might have been. Oh, so Leo might have been at the Joe Carter. I know what?

I'm not so sure Leo would have been at the game six against the Phillies. I don't think Dave Perkins wasn't there. He wouldn't have been at the Kauai Leonard shot, right? No, I don't think so. Huh. Yeah, whatever there were, there aren't there many of us who saw those two. It might have been just Steve Simmons and Doug Smith maybe. It could very well have been, yeah.

There's not many old guys left anymore. So Doug, okay, so I have, this is some inside baseball. I have the worst battery on this MacBook Pro, and it's screaming at me, it's going to die. Like, we would lose, if the laptop went down, then I'd have to do some tinkering here. So fear not, I'm just going to press some buttons. But maybe while I try to get this battery going again

and plug it in and see if I can get that going, can you get, like, paint a picture for the listenership. So your first time in the basement, I know you've heard a Toronto mic episode before. You chatted with me via Zoom in February, But can you paint a picture for those who don't know what, you know, what it's like from your vantage point? Paint a picture. What do you see here?

How underwhelmed or overwhelmed. Be honest with us all. You're now in the TMDS studio. I'm going to fix his battery. It's, uh, it's homey and it's very kitschy. I like it. I'm a big palm of piece, uh, Palma kitchen guy. Palma pasta.

Palma pasta. So I have a lasagna for you upstairs. Cool. I'm a big fan of them in Missaga. It's my regular go-to spot down there. I've actually played baseball at Maple Leafs against the Maple Leafs. Can you give me that story? Because I do have a book here on the history of Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball.

Are you in that book? What's going on? No, I'm not. I would have been managed or coached in Niagara Falls. And we played at Chrissy Pizzoften. I was to watch ball games very every now and then when I got first to Toronto. But back in the day, when it was known the Inter-County League, now it's called, now it's called something else.

Canadian Baseball League. This is the first season of the CBL. Yeah, we used to, that was the pinnacle for Ontario baseball players. If you guys up playing in Inter-County, you were big. So, okay. And now you're pretty big. What position did you play? I was a light-hitting, good-feeling outfieler.

Okay. And my own, I was on the bench. I was not a studying play a lot, but I was on a team that won the Canadian midget baseball championship in 1974, in Niagara Falls Lions. Okay, you know, that's a year of my birth. Wow, I was. So there you guys. Okay, I was a midget baseball player.

So can you be honest with us? Because, you know, I think the salary cap and the CBL, I think it's as high as like $4,000 a month. I don't know how many players are actually making that. Maybe it's just Yassie L. Pueg. I have no idea. But what kind of scratch? Like they called it semi-pro, this IBL as it was knowing.

Like, what kind of money would you get? Like beer money? What were you getting? Gas and beer. Gas and beer. Okay. And if you were pitchered and you threw like a two shutout, you might get a hundred bucks, maybe.

Okay. From a guy. But in 1974 money, I feel you could buy a house of that. In 19704, we got, as a teenage baseball player, we got nothing. Nothing. My dad might have got gas. If you were lucky. To drive to the tournaments, but that would be about it.

Okay. Do you ever make your way to Christy Pitts and take in a game? I haven't been probably five or six years. But I used to go, yeah, when I worked here, the first time I was around, but when I was around Toronto, I used to go a lot, I like, I love baseball. I like the park is a great little of the park. But the place we used to. the go to is at Talba Park.

Wait, where is that? Remind me? Talbot Park is at Eglinton and... I'm not really sure. Okay, but somewhere up there. Yeah, yeah. That was our big Toronto date. I had no idea you played semi-pro baseball, Doug.

No, not... We don't even call it that. No, we know. We call it the All-Star baseball back then. Okay. One of my, our first baseman was the J. Trano. Oh, huge legend, musical legend. No, sorry, former coach of the national team, right? Yep, coach of Raptors, coached the Phoenix Suns, coached Portland for a little while. Okay.

It's been 30 years in the NBA. Okay, well, the good news is I think the battery is going to hold on for the Doug's men. This is something I've been dealing with, Doug, so because I'm a one-man shop, right? You know, I don't. So this particular laptop, which is pre-pandemic, so it's aged, has a battery that needs servicing. But I have to carve out time. When do I bring this to the sure. Garden's genius bar or whatever. Apple, like, here's my laptop. Like, I need, hey, can you get it done

in five minutes? Like, I have to find a pause in the recording. And it's not just Toronto Mike, where I probably record too often, because I sort of am addicted to these conversations. I'm addicted to this real talk. But it's all these other shows I produce. Like, it's sort of all runs through this guy. And it's become like a, oh, I have to deal with this. This problem is not going to go away, Doug. And my history would be, because I think I know I've had exactly the same computer with exactly the same problem. And you will take it to the genius bar and they will say, well, we can do it, but we don't seem to have a battery anywhere near us because they don't make them anymore.

They got to bind one to bring back. You know what they're going to say? They're going to say, dude, just buy yourself another $3,500 MacBook Pro. That's what they're going to say. I need another computer because I can't work. You know, if I call the Toronto Star, I wonder what they would do, you know. Jeez, okay, so much ground I want to cover with you, but I actually had a song loaded up because did we have an in-person debut for Doug Smith in the calendar previously?

Is it possible that maybe we almost did this years ago? Something came up but didn't allow it to happen. Okay, because it's funny, I was talking to Ryan Walsstatt of all people who is threatening to make, the Waws, he's threatening to make his Toronto Mike debut. And we were trying to figure out, like, because I might have promoted your in-person debut at some point and then it never happened because then I found loaded in my soundboard. I found this song and I realized why, but let's listen to this.

Doug of the Slugs, my guy. So I had this loaded up because clearly I wanted to ask you, what is it like being Doug Smith, a Doug, during the heyday of Doug and the Slugs? Well, my crowd of friends didn't really are Doug of the Slug fans, but I got to know there was a guy who played for the Canadian basketball team, men's team, senior team. I can't think of his name now, but his dad was the, the, drummer in Douglas Lugs. That's a fun fact.

If I could find his last name, I would know the player's first name. I'll Google it. A really good, really good player. One of our things. That's a mind blow to me, actually. I'll Google that in a moment here. But did people start calling you Doug and the Slugs? Like, was there a moment?

Because there was a heyday. I remember there were three kind of bangers that hit Top 40 radio in a row in the 1980s here in Canada. And I just wonder if you're a Doug and suddenly Doug and the Slugs are doing their thing. I would think people would kind of make Doug and the Slug references. If they did, I might have stuck. Isaiah Thomas should call me a Dougie Fresh.

That'll work too. That was a big one of the rally NBA crowd. Dougie Fair says silent. I had a baseball manager just call me Smitty Slew because I was really quick like Seattle Slew. Okay. Back in the day. All right.

Well, Doug Bennett, it's no longer with us. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. Before we go any further, I need to ask you, Doug Smith. How is your ticker doing? It's, uh, well, I go see the Cardiologist. He says, be home. That's good, right? He doesn't send you to a funeral home.

Exactly. Say we have a bed for you and you go to your house. How often do you have to see the cardiologist? I don't go. I go once every six months now. I'm back to rarely. Okay. And they give you the all clear.

They don't say, Hey, Doug, we got to, we got to open you up and do something. No, they don't. They had some stuff up and little maintenance in April. It cost me in the playoffs this year,

but that was all taken care of. And now you're good. Like you'll be there for opening tip off at the Scotia Bank Arena they're going to take me out, eat purse when it's all over. Whenever that is. Well, shout out to Ridley Funeral Home.

They have a great podcast called Life's Undertaking and people can subscribe and enjoy. We actually dropped a new episode yesterday with Brad Jones at Ridley Funeral Home. So, we just talked about Doug and the Slugs. It wasn't really your jam, maybe,

but what are your jams, Doug, before we get too deep into this episode, you can imagine what I want to talk to you about. But what kind of music do you listen to when you're in your private time or you want to hear your song? Again, not everybody loves music and puts on music, but I'm curious. I don't put it on up, but I would say I'm very eclectic. I love, well, one of my favorite television shows is Trame.

I love it too from New Orleans, yeah. Great New Orleans jazz. Love the music. Yeah, I agree. Steve Earl does a cowboy girl on that show. It was like unbelievable. The woman knew the fiddler, Alicia McIrelli. You might be right on that name, but she.

She's fantastic. Fantastic. Great show. I'm a big fan of tragically hip because everybody is, because they're really good. Because you're Canadian. It's obligatory. Yes, but I think the best album ever made was probably... Road Apples.

Dark side of the moon? Oh, I thought you're picking a hip album there. No, but of all of them? Dark side of the moon. Let me tell you and the listenership, the next toast. So every month I get Rob Proust and Bob Willett in the basement and we kick out these thematic jams. And the next theme is Prog Rock. So we're going to kick out our favorite Prague rock songs, and I'll bet you we get a cut from Dark Side of the Moon.

I would think so, yeah. It was like, it was, well, obviously. It holds up too. Like it's still, it's still popular. It is. If comfortably numb comes on the radio, I have to stop my car and pull it over and turn up and listen to on. Okay. But I'm a big Sinatra.

Sinatra. I would Sim, Summer win might be one of the great. Okay. Sinatra hits. You got that in common with Steve Paken, his favorite. musician of all time. I do think the best Springsteen song is

Pay Me Down the Money from the New Orleans Jazz Fest in 2006, maybe. So yeah, it's all over the map. It's all over the map. So I was a big fan of Tremay, but I got to say, and no spoil,

I guess you can spoil a show, but I won't spoil it, but that show was best when John Goodman was on that show. Yeah, that was a big, that was tough loss. I know. So spoiler alerts.

I guess I should put it. And I was naturally interested in Tremay. Once I heard David Simon was behind it because my favorite show of all time is The Wire. And Bunk, great character, and I heard, oh, Bunk's going to be in this new David Simon and other characters, other actors from the Wire were going to be there too. But yeah, the music was fantastic. It was Steve Zons in that thing.

It was just great, great show. And it did lose something when John Goodman left. And the woman from. The Fighter. The Fighter and the Redhead Woman, Melissa Leo. Yes, she's fantastic. Homicide. Yes.

Which is another great television show that got short shrift, I think. No homicide, no the wire. Yeah. That's, they were, that's, I didn't see a lot of the wire. I wasn't a big attic of the wire. It's not too late, Doug. Not too late. But I watch a lot of homicide and love that show.

It was a great show. By the way, you're beeping away there. So my question is, are you low on battery or is that your ticker? No, I think it's my, it's my, well, it's not my office. Okay, you can check that out here. I'm going to ask you a few questions from, listeners and a question from me, but give you a chance to find out maybe there's breaking Kawhi Leonard news.

Anything there? Mostly junk mail. Okay. I was going to say, maybe your battery's low. Okay. So my question, I was thinking a lot. So Doug Smith is coming over. I'm like, oh, Doug Smith was there when Alvin Robertson was dropping 30.

Like, you were there for opening day, right? Yeah, I sure was. Mighty Mouse and all that, you know. Oh my God, what a time to be alive. and I follow that season so closely. But how many people are covering the Raptors for the mainstream media in 2026 who were also there covering the Raptors in 1995?

Because a couple of names dropped in my head, but you're there, but is there anyone else you can think of who was there in 95 and it's still there in 2026? Outside of broadcasters, like... Let's include broadcasts because you're going to say Leo Routens. And Paul Jones. And Paul Jones, right.

So Jonesy, dear friend of my... my good friend Jason Portwondo, so we got to get Jones over here. Paul Jones, he's a name that came to my head. And of course, you mentioned Leo Routens. He came to my head.

There's Doug Smith from the Toronto Star. Is there a fourth name you can think of who's covering the team this season coming up, but was also covering in 95? I can't pick anybody. No, in fact, I don't think there's probably,

probably not more, nobody else still in the business in Toronto. From 96. Kind of from 95. Kind of wild, right? Yeah, it's the business change. It's a young man's game, young person's game. But you're still in it?

Yeah, because, well, what else am I going to do? Okay, so, but that begs the question. Do you, you kind of joked earlier that they'll take out, take out in a box or something. I can't remember your line. Beat first. Be first. How long will you run?

I feel like Neil Young over here. How long will you run, Doug Smith? How long do you plan to keep covering the Raptors for the Toronto Star? well probably for as long as I let me but I sort of come to deal with myself and my bosses and my family that I'm going to go year to year

I would never I've never quit in the middle of the season and I would give a commitment to the full season if I start and I'm going to start this season and I don't I'm you reassess in the summer yeah and how how tired I am how much a grind it is how the business has changed and if they still want me I'll come back and they have yet to say get away so

I might stick around But I'm at the age Of it I'm at that vintage Where I got to think year to year And say okay, Dwight It's a grind It's a tough job

There's a lot of travel There's a lot of work There's a lot of time And I'm 68 years old I might not want to do it for Well, I wouldn't do it for as long as a levy I would like to like to get to 70 For sure

And then hey I watch Mill Dinell work I was gonna I was gonna say Miltanel worked into his, yeah, into his 90s, I believe. Yeah. Okay.

I once asked Damian Cox about who did I, Bill Barilco, because not that Damien Cox watched Bill Barilco, but he had conversations with a man who did, Miltonnell. And Milk compared Bill Barilco to John Cortic. That was his reference point. Like, oh, wow. So I found that, you know, because we've really,

and joking, I just mentioned Steve Paken, like, randomly because he's a big, Frank Sinatra fan. But Steve Paken is part of a group that's right now, I think Kevin Shea is involved, but right now they're making a documentary about Bill Barilco. Like it's in production and we're all, I hope we can all see it next year, but it sounds like a big deal. And I know Steve Paken made a trip up north to where the plane went down. Like this is a big, big deal.

But we've all kind of, I guess if you die young and leave a good looking corpse, we sort of elevate you to this James Dean type. status or whatever, but Bill Barocco, we think of him like he was Bob Yore, like the way we talk about, but he did score the winning goal. Not so much though. No, but you're saying here. Milton L watched him play and compares him to John Cortick. Not that John was a bad player, but.

But not, we're going to the hall of, anyway, that's my, whenever I hear Milt, I think about that story that Cox told me and I think, yeah, sometimes you need, sometimes you need guys like you, who, you know, you watched Doug Christie, okay? You watched Oliver Miller. Like, you were there. You've seen them play. you can do a proper compare where as time goes on and in young people take over, we lose sight of reality.

Like there is a sort of a perception that is different than reality, but you can bring the reality because you were there. Yeah, I appreciate that because I think context is really important. And especially in sports journalism, because some of the guys who are great this year aren't that great in the bigger picture. You know, they're good basketball players. They've got to be good, but you can't lie.

them because they're having a good season when 15 years ago the same guy was put up the same number and he was just a guy right like like ac earl i believe he dropped 40 points or something yeah the single the single game scoring record for well i think Vince took it for him yeah he got 51 so ac and east earl is like a good enough guy and you know he's god bless us whole played the NBA for a long time but you don't think of him as your leader scoring in your franchise history right at any point Right. Any point ever. You have something in common with A.C.R.

Which is you're both FOTMs. I've had A.C. Earl on this program and we talked about that magical night he dropped. He's still going. I got an email from a friend of mine when I was in Las Vegas this summer at Summer League. And she was there as a promoter with A. Cyril who's done a bunch of books. Yeah. He writes about hip-hop. Hip-hop and kids basketball books.

So he was in Vegas and we were going to try to have lunch. It didn't quite happen. but he's yeah apparently still connected to Toronto he was a big big rap guy big big music guy back of the day yeah and a hell to score there you go 40 points okay for one I didn't boss I'll never I'll never forget like I mean when the raps arrived it was a dream come true for me because it was you know I remember like we had uh of course everybody's watching the bowls and what was going on with Michael Jordan right but then all of a sudden it's like oh my god like Michael Jordan's going to come to our city and play regular season basketball.

And then, of course, we all remember that game at the dome, right? Yep. It's still, to this day, the game people point to. And it was 20 or 32 years ago. Wow. What did we hold them to? Was it 12 points or something? Why do I feel like, you know, it's one of those things.

You were there. I can't remember. Over time, it's going to be like, we held them scoreless. And didn't win at the bedroom because he had a. His basket just got, if they had a replay, maybe he scores, the basket that wins the game at the buzzer. Right. Right. Waved off because it was too late.

Right. Maybe if they have instant replay and they can bring it down to the one millionth of a second. Right. It counts. And the Raptors lose. Then what your history did, the whole tragedy, their, it changes everything. Changes everything. 2019 never happens.

It's like back to the future, right? If you change something and then all of a sudden, you know, this, this, well, I'll play the clip because in a moment when we get to Kauai Gate. Okay, we're going to get there. But I got a question unrelated to Kauai Gate, believe it or not. I got a question from Steve Cole, who I see sometimes refers to himself on Blue Sky as Disco Steve, okay? So Disco Steve says, as someone, I think this is for you, because I'm not old enough,

but as someone who is old enough to have attended a couple of Buffalo games, oh, no, Steve's old enough. Okay. As someone who is old enough to have attended a couple of Buffalo games at Maple Leaf Gardens, when they regularly played there. I wonder if Doug Smith did also. I did. I was a,

I'm a Niagara Falls boy, so I was a big Buffalo's brave span to begin, and I would come up every now and then, but I would more, I was more likely to go watch it even Buffalo. It was closer. Closer, right? And here's the comedy,

here's the quintum, continuum, is that the McAdoo is now playing for the Blue Jays now is, I believe, a nephew of Bob Mcadoo. Yes. Which is amazing to me because Bob McAdoo showed up in Toronto like a month ago. He was at a tempo game. Okay.

And he was at a candidate game against Jamaica in Hamilton on the July long weekend. Bob McAdoo with a friend from Toronto who brought him up for the weekend. And he was the first player I fell in love with. Bob Acadu was a brilliant player. And our mutual friend, Dave Perkins, one of the greats of all time. I love Dave Perkins. I hear from Perkins every now and then. because whenever in one night.

I got to get him back in the basement, actually. The first time they brought McAdoo up to play for the Blue Jays. He got a hit maybe, or hit home runners. They did something. Right. And they went to the story. And he was referenced as the nephew of ex-laker great Bob McAdoo.

And the words weren't spoken. And my text just blew up with Burke. What? The buffalo brave. They've got to have young kids. I love. I love. Perk. He's like, he's all world.

Well, you know, there are episodes of Toronto Mike with Bob Elliott, Dave Perkins, and Larry Milsen, all in this basement. Another one of the great. Elliot is like Robert. Yeah. He's Douglas. He's pretty bloody low. Michael.

He had to have a, I mean, I told the story too many times, but I'll just tell one more time. So the first time I just had him over solo. I'm like, I got to talk to Bob Elliott. What a thrill this was for me. But I have a 1986 story. shoppers drugmer calendar on the wall with George Bell's month of May on there.

Okay, I love my 80s, blue jays, especially the drive of 85. But he showed up at the door. Bob Elliott, he's at the door. I now guests have to come through the side door, but back in the day, you came in the front door, long story, but he had two,

each hand had a diet Coke in it, okay, he was double-fisting Diet Coke. And I thought to myself, oh, how nice, Bob has brought me a Diet Coke. This is my thought, prize. Well, you know the rest of the

story, which is no. No, these are two Diet Coke's for Bob Elliott to drink. There's no Diet Coke for me. The greatest wedding I ever went to was my sister, my wife's sister, Julian Polack, who's a friend of the Outer Ruff Rider's driver, married Don Campbell, which I was Ottawa Citizen, a great friend of mine. And the wedding was in New York City, and it was Joanne and Don, my wife and I and Bob Elliott's wife, six.

That was the wedding. We had a limo. We had a great lunch, we had a great dinner. Wow. We've got some, I'm sure, some country music thrown in there a little bit.

Oh, yeah, he loves like, what is it, George Strait, this kind of stuff, right? Yeah, the boxer, boxing alley,

boxing Bob. He's the, yeah, great guy, great storyteller. If you can, oh, I love the, the more mumbly,

the better as far as I'm concerned. Like, I love it. Bob's a character. He's, he like yourself, but he, obviously he's older, but he's being there,

he's seen it all, and he'll tell a great story. like he was fantastic. But he also, much like you, Doug Smith, he had a ticker issue too. Yeah, he did, yeah. Pretty, yeah, we came through it for a long time in Alberta, I believe.

Yeah, yeah, something like that. So we all got to take care of your hearts, everybody. Yes, please do that. Hey, I was looking up Doug and the Slug drummers here. Is it John Wally Watson? There might have been multiple drummers. Yvonne Kendall was a Canadian basketball player. Okay, Simon Kendall.

I'm here now. Simon Kendall. was a keyboardist. That's the trick here. Not the drummer. So, long, yeah,

so Simon Kendall was the long time keyboardist for Doug and the Slugs. He actually won a genie award for best original score because he did the score for Cadillac Girls in 1993. So there you go.

He's also done another, bunch of other movies. I'm sure that's the hook. I'm sure that's the hook. Oh, is there some hook with Key von Lindel and, in the Slugs?

But that's pretty good. Yeah, it's got to be Simon Kendall, the keyboardist. for Doug and the Slugs. Okay, so we got the answer there. So Steve Cole, there you go. Great. By way, we were, so in this little group, Steve Cole, we were talking about Buffalo Games at MLG. And then VP chimed in to say there's a great book called Loose Balls by Terry Pluto. Yeah, it's about the ABA and he said it's a wild ride.

And I've, yeah, the ABA is a, so people want a great book on it, loose balls. Yeah, so that's, I'm sure out of print now, but you got, if you can find one, read it because it's hilarious. And that's cool. That league was crazy, crazy. Can you give me a taste? There's a great dog. Oh, so I just got a shout out of the dog.

There's a documentary series called Soul Power, the rise of the ABA that VP thought was outstanding. So that's on my list. I got to check out Soul Power, the rise of the ABA. But can you give us, like, elaborate on that? So it's wild ride. It was crazy. Was it just because it was like an alternative Wild West type deal?

It was more, it was more. what the NBA became was what the ABA was three point shots loud music all the time party atmosphere like partying time sensory overload yeah sensory overload and the players lived as well like in you know they're back there were huge issues with substance abuse

and the way players handled themselves and the NBA was like this crazy league It wasn't like, I don't think you can compare it to, or compare it to the WHA, but it was like the anti-MBA. Let's put that way. Like a, yeah, rival renegade. Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing. Cool. And only four teams survived when they merged.

San Antonio, Indiana, New Jersey. Can't move the fourth is now. You're going to make me Google it again. Okay. San Antonio, Indiana, Brooklyn. New Jersey. I can't think with the other ones.

I will tell you now. It's the Denver Nuggets. Denver, Denver Nuggets, Indiana Pacers, New York Nets, and San Antonio Spurs. So three out of, as Meatloaf almost saying, three out of four, ain't bad, Doug. And the group that held out the longest was the

team that owned, the players that own St. Louis in the ABA, who got in their deal. They were like 1% from the NBA every year for their lives. Wow. They're in checks today. Yeah.

From the NBA. That's like a Bobby Benilla type contract. It was like, it's like Bobby. That's the standard. The gold standard for Bobby Bonilla. Although I think he got his last check, I think. Benilla finally got his last check. It's July 1st, right?

July 1st or July 4th? Something like that. Yeah, it's something like that. And I think show how Otani's deal might surpeat surpass Bonilla when it's over. Hey, quick thought on that. So I was thinking, so Otani, he's a bit of a unicorn because he's like a two-way player. Well, you know, the only one really, he pitches effectively. He plays...

Best football players at all time. Yeah, there really is no comparison, right? No, Babe Ruth, he's... But he's... Exhibitively better pitcher than Babe Ruth ever was. So the only reason I've been thinking a lot about that because I've been watching a lot of WPBL, the women's professional baseball league,

because I produce a podcast for them, and they got underway in August, August 1st, they got underway. So I was watching last night in Canada. So America's on ESPN, but outside of America, you can watch it for free on YouTube. Like, it's just checking it out. By the way, Kelsey Whitmore, who was the number one pick in that league,

hit three homers yesterday, her first three of the year. Anyways, I watched all this closely. Deney Benitez leads a league at five home runs. The host of the podcast, WPBL podcast, which I highly recommend. Her name is Ashton Lansdell. She's a hell of a player, so I'm drinking all this in. But it's commonplace in the women's professional baseball league for players to play both ways.

But unlike Show Hay, who D-8, or whatever. Like, you know, it's very common in the WPBL for players to play the field, to bat and to pitch, commonplace. Well, I guess maybe lack of depth of players. I think it's, I think I thought about, first of all, there's only 15 players on the roster. I think you got a double bit. You got to somebody do exactly right. And also that is the one thing when expansion is looming because there's only four teams right now,

but that is the great thing they need to rectify, which is depth of pitching. Like that is absolutely going to be a problem. They can't just, you know, you know, eight teams now. There's just not enough good arms in the WPBO. But I think that is something they're working on like a farm system. Yeah, that's kind of good development because your shortstop is your starter. It was a starting pitcher one night. And then you play shortstop and then you hit third all the time every game.

There's this great woman from, she's from Quebec. Her name is Andreanne LeBlanc. And heck of a power. She's a switch hitter, but a power hitter, something else. And I just, we talked to her the other day. This episode drops tomorrow morning. So she's on the program. I'm telling her how proud Canada is of her.

She's doing well. She plays for the San Francisco Firebells. But I saw on the stat, she pitched one inning. It was a clean inning, like three up, three down. And it's just in passing, I'm like, do you want to pitch more? She goes, like, that's the plan. It's like, yeah, like all these position players, because they have a depth issue with pitching.

They only play seven innings for that reason. So, you know, seven innings to save the arms, and I notice there's pretty good gaps. Because there's only a couple of players, I think, in that entire league, who are pitchers only. And Ayami Sato is one. And last year she played for the,

for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I watched her at Christy Pits. But anyway, it's just interesting to see how commonplace it is that, oh, the third baseman, the first baseman, right? But it's a woman. So third base,

but that's just the term. I guess in hockey, a defenseman, it could be a woman. But okay, so the third baseman's going to come in and pitch the sixth inning. Like, it's just, that's just the reg over there. And that's where, I think historically women's sports,

that's been the issue at the start. It's finding depth of talent. You can't, you got to be. You need a farm system. Like there is no infrastructure. You just, there's no,

there was no system in place to develop. There's no, no place for young girls to play. Right. To become pitchers or, or whatever position it is. And that, there was a,

that was a big basketball issue. Until now there is, there are great players being groomed from the time they're 10 or 11 years old and when they're to college they're great back 20 years ago when you got to college you were okay right now that's why basketball's having great success right now and i think that's going to be an issue with has been an issue in the past with women's hockey because you could basically play the u.s canada Olympic final for decades right know what's coming right but maybe that tide is changing i don't know i don't not sure well i think to be they're always

I know. I saw Sweden jumped up one year and we thought maybe, but it does, that is a sport where it's like, okay, let's just play the final now. Like we know it's Canada, US,

let's go. Yeah, so it doesn't belong to Olympics for that very reason. Right. But the league, the PWHL is apparently having great success and drive great crowds and it's high caliber and it's good, good hockey to watch.

Yeah. But when you come to nationals and national teams, you can't find 10 great Norwegians. Right. You're 100% right. But you can find 40 great Canadians. Right. You can probably find them in a Tobico.

All right. So last point of the WPL, then I'm playing a clip and we're going to talk basketball because I hear that's your, the sport you cover. That's what I read somewhere. That's what I read that somewhere. That's what the people tell me. Well, they don't actually. But the one last point, I'll just make it, the WPBL on the pitching depth, which

is being addressed. But also, historically, if you were a good ball player and you were a woman, you went the root of softball. Right. And when you take a softball player, an elite softball player, and you try to transfer the skills over to baseball, batting, you can kind of transfer it over. It's a little different, but you can,

and fielding, of course, you can transfer that over, but you can't really transfer pitching, right? No, no. So really, that, I think, is a big deal where we're developing a system where you can develop pitching, and I think that will lead to expansion. And my prediction is, and again, I'm speculating here. I don't have any insight into this.

I believe one day there will be a WPBL franchise in Toronto, and they will play at the same field, at the same ballpark, as the Toronto Maple Leaves, and that will not be Christy Pitts. This is me calling a shot that at some point they're going to build something, because obviously Rogers owns, we'll get to Rogers later, Rogers owns the dome, there's really nowhere else to play a pro baseball team in Toronto other than the dome, and they're not going to put it there. So building something, I don't know, a 5,000 seat or a 3,000 to 5,000 seat, nice charming

ballpark somewhere, moving the leaps there, and bringing in a WPBO franchise for Toronto. That's just me putting it on the record, Doug Smith. Get the investors lined up right now. Yeah, well, I'm working on that too. I went to see, actually, funny you mentioned that. My league baseball team in St. Catharines. It's run by Mal Ramona and used to run the Blue Jays,

PR. Rich Griffin, my best friend, is a manager. He's the manager of the team. He manages to the owner, Gordon Chan, is a good friend. of my best friend. So we went down to watch the Iron Jacks. Okay. On a Saturday of the last game of the regular season in Mariton, a little park I played in a little,

but it's got a great little Bull Durham vibe. I like it. We loved it. I love it. We had a great time. But yeah, you get a little park, you put that on me,

you put it downtown Toronto or do you put it out here? Maybe the Portland's, like Portland's. I can't remember how you say that term, but maybe there's something there. Like that's just, I always think of the Portland's as a good place to put a diamond.

You don't need a lot of space. You don't need a lot of space. It's a big footprint, but it's somewhere because there needs to be, I mean, this would solve a lot of problems, including the fact that, and I tout this as a benefit,

so I don't, you know, but the Leafs games are free to attend because you can't ticket a game in a Toronto Public Park, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, so this,

it'll fix, it'll be a, like, it'll be a place for the Leafs. It'll be a place for the new WPBL franchise, which does not yet exist. And I think it'll be a charming place to get a,

a great league's beer and watch a game. What's, at a sunny afternoon, sunny evening, what's better at the summer? Nothing. Nothing. Mine league ball play. You don't know.

You may never hear of the players again for the rest of your life. It doesn't matter. Having a beer, watching a ball game, sun's out. Right. I just,

look, you had me at hello. So it's funny that we're going to talk about Kauai Gate right now. I'm going to grill you on Kauai Gate. Now, when the trade was announced that Kauai Lander was returning to Toronto,

at that time we figure this is a done deal. And I played this clip for Ed Keenan, your colleague at the Toronto Star, and we kind of talked about the nostalgia factor. So I'm going to play the clip again. We'll talk about that moment, and then I'm going to grill you about Kauai Leonard. You ready?

Yep. Kauai up top, looks at the clock, turns the corner for the win. Later, this shot to go. I actually knew, I actually played the American. call for Ed Keenan. So there you go. That's our call there.

But again, take us back to that moment. Just again, if you don't mind. I love to bathe in this nostalgia. But you were there. What was it like when Kauai Leonard hit that shot against the 76ers? Nothing like nothing I had ever experienced because for a

split second, 19, 20,000 people held their breath. And when they exhaled, when the ball, they hit for the fourth, the room for the fourth time I went in. It was like an energy. It was like a release, right? I can imagine it's a mass release.

Like you're nervous and they're scared. You don't know what's going to happen. And then it goes in and there's like this pantomit. It was pandemonial. It was amazing to me. Now, I had to write about it. So I was mostly like,

holy shit. I got a file like now. Right. Let's go. But we are, our seats were directly on the line. of the shot right behind the raptor bench at that end of the bench and we could when the ball goes up for my seat i don't think it's going in then it hit the second time so it hit the rim second time and

no what do we and we couldn't do anything we're paralyzed to see what happened and then oh oh my shit i got to work that's what's what we're going to do and it was but it was as dramatic a sports event as you'll ever see so you were there for joe carter's home run now of course joe carter's won the world series but Is that the next compare, and that better compare, I feel, is the bat flip. I think so, too. Although the bat flip was a culmination of the greatest ending of all time. Right. They made a documentary of all time.

The Carter one, and not to take away from what the guy did, he had a home run to win the world serious for God sakes. But they probably would have got that game anyway. You know, Alfredo Griffin was on deck, though. Yeah, that's true. but Mitch Williams could have hit three guys. You don't know even know back then. And they still had game seven if they had to get to it.

True, but Kauai had overtime if Kauai misses that shot. Yeah, 100%. I love this convo because those are like, okay, so one thing also about the bat flip is it's the seventh inning. Like people can't remember. Like that's the seventh inning. There's a lot of baseball to go. That's not the ninth inning, right?

There's no walk off there. So, but that, I feel like these are all such great. Those are like the moments. It's funny. We talked about Bill Barilco earlier, but there are no, like we don't really have. I mean, there's no moment because the Leafs, you have to win the championship for these.

That's also true. I got to say about the, and as I catch myself, that Jose Batista, that was great. But we don't win the world, we don't go to the World Series, which I think is a key part of that,

that story as well. But Kawhi Leonard's shot means so much because we actually win the Larry OB that year in 2019. And the Joe Carter, of course, does clinch the second home run, sorry, the back-to-back World Series championships.

But you were there for both. If you had to pick one of those moments, one of those moments for definitive Toronto sports moment, is it Joe Carter or is it Kauai Leonard? I think it's Kauai. I really do. I think because it was cathartic for the fans, they won the series.

They made a shot. They wanted to win the titles. Right. It's a huge thing. Part of it. The Blue Jays had already won a World Series. And I think they would have got the Phillies either way anyway. but you pick one, I'll take the other.

It's tough. I think, I mean, you were there for both and you might be right. And I think the significant point that you make there is that the Js had a title. They had a flag that was going to fly forever, okay? Thank you, Dave Winfield for that extra inning double. So we had the World Series. The Raptors, we honestly, I mean, how many great players refused to sign in Toronto just because it was, another country.

Like, it just felt like a perfect storm for Maasai to assemble a team that could win a title. I still pinch myself and can't believe 2019 happened. But it happened, right? That wasn't a fever dream. No, it was not. Trust me. It was, it was an amazing six weeks because for all that, like you said, all the players that didn't want to play here, all the disappointment, all those years when they were, they were awful.

Heed oak, turkaglu, ball. And they were just bad teams and bad players. They weren't good. and to have one to come together adding Gasol, getting Kauai and Danny Green before the trade, before the season.

It was like, it was a perfect season of, obviously never be repeated because it's the first, but it was a great thing for the franchise for what had had gone through. And I think at the end of it, someone asked you, what's your member?

What's it mean to you? Yeah. And I kept thinking to the, the poor schmose who worked all those years of the team sucked. And finally we're still there and we're good. What the hell? How do they feel? And I felt very happy for guys, the back shop guys, the backhouse guys, the front office people who toiled and got no reward for it.

Right. And finally did because of some magical shot. Just a perfect culmination of everything. And I always look back. It's funny we talked about Leo Routens earlier because his Toronto mic debut was the morning after game three against the bucks. Okay. Now, as you know, because you were covering the team,

we were down 2-0 in that series. And that third game went to double overtime? Yeah. And I, you can talk about the four-bouncer, but if we don't win that third game in overtime, we're not talking about any Larry O.B.

flying here into it. No. This is not happening. So that game three win against the bucks was everything. And double overtime. And game four in Philadelphia, in that same series,

they were down two games, the one. And if they lose game four and down three one, it's over. And Kauai made a shot with, I think, 12 seconds ago to win that game. This Kauai guy, I can't believe he's, is he back? Okay, let's get into it. So that's all 2019. You can hook that nostalgia to my veins. I could talk about Kauai Leonard 2019 Raptors for the whole 90 minutes here. But apparently my, then not this calendar, but there is a calendar in this house that tells me it's 20, 26. Believe it or I'm living in the real world here. So I'm going to read a question for Brian Gerstein,

who is a longtime supporter of this podcast, a listener. Everybody remembers the property in the sixth jingle, and of course he's a diehard Raptor guy since 95. So Brian Gerstein writes, Doug, Kauai just turned 35 and has a lot of mileage on him, coming off 65 games last year, and averaging a career high 27.9.6.7.7.7. per game. If he is able to avoid suspension and start the season with us, we'll get into that.

How do you see him project for games played and scoring production? How will he and Scotty make it work as the alpha dog? Does there have to be one? So that's all going to come out in the spiel, which is we need to talk about the trade and how it affects a team, but we need to talk about what I'm calling KawhiGate. I don't think everyone listening is a Raptor fan. Unlike when you go on a Raptor show, they're all Raptor fans. They know everything. thing. I think we need to set the table first maybe. Why is this trade on hold? Will it go through? Like, what do you know, Doug? Kauai's in town? Yeah, it's been around most of the summer. Yeah, because he was at that NBO and then somebody's like, oh, Kauai, you know, but what do you know, Doug? I'm going to shut up.

I'm tired of my own voice here. You're the expert. Can you set the table for those who are like, I don't know what's going on with this Kauai Lennard trade and why there's controversy? What do you know? There was a, when you signed a contract extension with the Clippers in 2021, there were apparently charges that there were illegal inducements concerning the salary cap rules that they gave him $28 million from a company that the franchise was associated with, not the franchise itself. As a kind of a backside. Like a circumventing the salary caps. Yes.

Get you more money on this. Yes. There's $28. dollars from us. There's $20 million for you, but it doesn't come from us. It comes to them, but we maybe gave it to them. And then that became a big story, Pavlachori, won a Pulitzer Prize investigating

aspiration, I believe it is the company. And the league, correctly, decided to investigate. They hired an outside law firm in New York City to do it because they needed a, they need that distance. Right. It's dragged on now for 10, 11 months, and people are, what the hell? How does it take this along? It's not, it's not like, it's not as a prudor film.

This is like, let's get this thing done here. Let's go. It's not the Warren Commission. Right. But now the question is. You could have said the dubbing inquiry. I could have said a jump in inquiry. Exactly.

I could have. Same kind of thing. Because it's basically the parallels are like, oh, everybody's doing it. He got caught. Um, anyway, the impatience for the length of the investigation is a problem. The Raptors and Clippers have a deal in place. Yeah. They don't want to finalize it until they decide, the league decides, what the penalties are.

Will there be, um, a suspension of Leonard? I don't think that's even allowable under the CBA under the, the sap, the cap circumvention clause. They can make them give some of the money back. they can find him, but they cannot suspend him by the letter of the law. So that's not a big issue. I think where they're at right now, the league has a report from the lawyer firm.

They're going through it, and I think they are negotiating with Steve Balmer, the owner of the clippers, what he is willing to accept in a penalty. Because I think the clippers are going to get ding big. I think the agent of record for Leonard at the time of the contract will be banned. And I think Kauai will be paid to pay some back of the money. But the trade, when all this shenanigans is done, is going to go through as expected.

It's going to be Brandon Ingram, Grady Dick, two first round dip, a second round pick and a pick swap. And it'll be done before the trading begins September 29th. You're calling it here. Because I did see a quote from the commissioner, like, it takes as long as it takes or something like that. Yeah, they would like it to be over yesterday, but it can't because you can't, you can't, you can't to the law firm say, okay, we want to report on this date.

Yeah, because you're supposed to be hands off of this. That's the whole idea. You can't, you can't say, tell us where you are because, you know, we can't do that. And as Silver said in Las Vegas in July, if you're being investigated or you're doing, you want it to be thorough. You don't want to cut it short because of time.

You want them it takes as long as it takes, and it's taken a long time. But I think my understanding is the report from the law firm is in the hands of the league. They are deciding on what they will penal, how they will penalize Balmer and the Clippers. And there is a negotiation between them to how much Balmer will accept. Because the league doesn't want an appeal. It doesn't want arbitration. It doesn't want this dragged on for another two years in that process.

So there's back channel Back channel negotiations going on now, I believe, with bombers say, we want to find you blah about this and blah, blah, blah, blah, and this money picks and suspension for you for six months or whatever. I think that's where they are. But I'm convinced they will be solved and Leonard will be a clip by Raptor.

For opening day. Yes. So Doug Smith, from the Toronto Star on Toronto Mike says, Kauai will be in the lineup open. day of his healthy. Yeah. I love that,

leave that all along. Okay, now as a trade, so we'll put the Kauai Gate controversy aside here. You did answer MJ's question because he wanted to know how you thought Kauai would be penalized

and Steve Balmer, but you've shared that insight already. But what do you think of it as a trade? Like, we gave up a lot for a 35-year-old. Like that is, it is, I feel we gave up quite a bit,

but do you think this is a good trade for the Toronto Raptors? Yeah, I absolutely do. Yeah, I do. Brandon Ingram had a great one year with Toronto, no question about it. I'm still not sure that Grady Dick is an NBA player. Especially as a rotation player on a good team. I mean, he's NBA talent, but at what level?

I mean, Kauai's ability to impact a game defensively, offensively, and without any kind of flare is perfect. I mean, I mean, if you ran out, he, Scottie Barnes, and Column Murray Boyle, you made three of the best defenders in the NBA on your team, on the court at the same time. He was just, that year we got to watch Kauai play. It was only 60 games. He missed 20 games because they load management. Load management.

But it was, he was an absolute clinic in dominating the game at both ends. And he still has it. as someone said. Yeah, well, Brian said 27.9 points a game. Yeah. That's his career high. And he wouldn't, he's not going to have to do that here because he's going to, like, Scott, he's going to get maybe get 20 a night.

RJ Barracks, he's usually get 23 a night. We don't know what, how quickly will fit as a score, but he's a great three-point shooter. I think this is like the pressure of him on Kauai will be just to be yourself. And I think knowing Barnes, his personality, knowing Kauai's personality pretty well, they don't give a rat's ass who's the number one. As long as the team wins.

Yeah. Brian calls them, yeah. And I think Barnes would be quite happy to let Kauai take every game deciding shot. It'd be 10 times a game. Any year it might come up. And because they're probably going to win eight of them. And they'll be right with that. But I don't think

the meshing of personalities would not be an issue with Leonard and I'm certain of that. Time is a funny thing, Doug, as you know, because you just said the number eight. And it's a mind blow to me that Kauai Lander joined the Raptors eight years ago. Can you believe that was eight years ago? No, because, no, I don't.

It was like, one, it feels like yesterday. Two, it feels like 25 years ago because so much has happened. Oh, yeah, there was a pandemic in between, I believe, yeah? Exactly. The world changed. The world stopped there for 18 months. Right. You know, the pandemic has messed,

sense of time up. Like, I just think now things are pre-pandemic or post-pandemic. Like, it's like, yeah, that was, you know, how old is this? I just did it. This laptop is so old. I own this, and I'm not even sure, I have to check out the timestamp on when I bought this laptop, but I think it was pre-pendemic, but it's, everything gets a point there. So how do you think Kauai does in the 20, 26, 27 season?

This is back to Brian Gerstein's question, because he wants you to know, like, how many games do you think he plays and how many points per game do you think he puts up? And remember, I'm recording this, Doug, so I'm going to play. so I'm going to pull this at the end of the season and see how good your guess was. I would suggest he'll probably, I would say 65 to 70 games. Oh, good. Is realistic. I'll take that.

And I would think he probably would, I don't think he will score 27 a night, but he'll probably 25. Wow. Because he won't have to because I think he's going to be on a much better team. The team he's drawing in Toronto is far better than when he played with the clip, played with on the Clippers last year. That's a good point. And that's fine. and I think he's okay with that. I understand there's health issues,

their concerns, but the only team for the last 10 years that's been able to keep him healthy was Toronto. And all those people are still here and the medical staff. So that's a mitigating thing

that they know how to deal with him. How do you think the Raptors do next season? Oh. How's your crystal ball doing these days, Doug? Well, Until I, having not seen Philadelphia try to play a game or how New York looks with having won a title instead of striving for one. Right. I think the Raptors in the top three in the east.

Three or four. I think Detroit might be okay, but I'm not sure about that. Will Hens will do whether Dorena's back with them. Cleveland's pretty good, but I'm not, I think in the Raptor, Raptor playoff series last year, they were more fraud than champion. The cabs, they're good, but they're not, like, scary. So I think the Raptors are right where they were, you know, top four in the playoffs. You're one sprained ankle for winning a title.

All bets are off. Okay. You don't know. Yeah, exactly. All right. Can't believe it. I follow you on Blue Sky. By the way, what is your relationship like with the app formerly known as Twitter?

like like like because I do notice you post on on blue sky where many of us Twitter refugees have ended up yeah I don't I don't like to post anymore on Twitter because I think it encourages them and I don't want to wait so I talked over you why because because what did you say it encourages them and I don't I like I understand that I need to I should my company puts our stuff on the Twitter right so I will basically retweet that because I think I should give the readers a chance to see it. But I don't comment there very often anymore because it's a cesspool.

And it's an echo land. You know, I'm exactly the same. I feel exactly the same way. And a lot of basketball people have gone to Blue Sky. We were, I think, one of the first sports that went it that way. And that's what I just more. It feels better. It does.

You feel cleaner when you're out there when you're doing that. Than the other pod. Less Nazis there. Yeah, there's that part too. Yes. Because one of your blue sky, I don't know what we all those posts, I guess, like Blue Sky posts recently was how the NBA missed Raptors Clippers on Christmas Day is beyond me.

It's crazy. It would have been natural. Winter hits Kauai. Well, it's got to do if I think, you know, this, this damn city we love is not in the United States of America. Yes. And the ratings don't count. But they're going to play, they're going to play preseason game in Vancouver for good

and sake. There you go. There you go. Okay. So now I'm going to hit. So, well, let me make sure I have thanked the appropriate people. and then I have like some rapid fire stuff for you. I've enjoyed it.

We should, you should come over before every raptor season. There should be Doug Smith in the basement, setting the table here. I'm going to get you to come back. So I have for you. And I don't know with that ticker what you're up to on the beer front,

but this is delicious fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery sent over for you. I have a matter of fact. I had a few of these in my life. You've had a few Great Lakes beers. I have. Yes, they're quite tasty. The lager, I believe, was very good.

Yeah, well, there's a logger in there for sure. Well, if not, all sweet. it up. I can get you a logger. But yeah, they have a premium logger, very good. But they have a light logger that I quite like as well. I had a Great Lakes Lager last night at the Elmwood where I had delicious chicken wings. So that was just last night. That was great. My first time, by with, yesterday was the first time in my life. A child of mine paid for my meal. Really? I guess that's a milestone or whatever. Did you have him or her call my son?

Well, my 22-year-old daughter who lives in Montreal is in town for a little bit because she's way to visit her grandmother in Vancouver. But she for my birthday, usually she buys me Blue Jays tickets, but I said, hey, let's not give the money to Rogers. Like, let's just go. And then she said, yeah, I'll buy

you dinner. And I took her up on the offer last night. And that's the first time I had a, I mean, I had a great meal. And at the end of it all, she paid. That's even my, and she's got an older brother. He's never bought me a meal. He's giving me like gift cards for a pizza Nova gift card or whatever, but that's a little bit of like a

different slant on it all. This is actually going out for a meal and I don't pick up the check. That must have been special. It was, it was amazing. I dream to experience it. Well, you know, one day, I only, I've only experienced it once, Doug's, I can't break too much here. We'll see if it happens again here. Okay, so I, you mentioned you love palma pasta, right? I was fixed, I was trying to save the battery over here, but I, and I know I mentioned it in passing, but yeah, in my freezer upstairs, Doug Smith is a delicious frozen lasagna, sent a, over by Palma pasta. I have a fresh sheet of

Fetuccini and some Alfredo to make for dinner for tonight. As a matter of fact, I stopped there yesterday, I got it. And you know, you mentioned it feels what feels good. What we talked about, you know, oh, posting on blue sky feels better than posting on X, Elon Musk's app. But I got to say, I like, it's delicious, and

it feels good to eat Palma pasta because I know it's a family-run biz, like the Petrucci family, and it was started by Palma Petrucci and her husband, Marcilio, And they're both no longer with us, sadly. But, you know, the Pachucci family continue to run Palma Possa. It feels good.

Yeah, I go to the one in the test kitchen. It's cementic a lot. That's called Palma's Kitchen. Yeah, it's right. It's like a three-minute drive at my house. So I'm going to go there a lot. Well, Doug, let me tell you this. Every year in either late November or early December, we have a live event.

There's a second floor they've done a good job on at Palmis Kitchen. where you and listeners of the program, we collect in this room for three hours, and I record live that you would pop on the mic and say hi to everybody. Palma pasta feeds everybody. I bring fresh Great Lakes beer. It's the best.

I'm in. Unless you're on the road with the wraps or something. I won't go on a trip. Yeah. So I'm telling you, I'm going to tell the listeners, we have another event coming up at the GLB Brew Pub at Jarvis and Queens Key. That's September 28. That's TMLX 23.

but TMLX Toronto mic listener Experience 24 will happen at Palmer's Kitchen Doug Smith will be there I'll be in for sure I love it, okay, okay and something like a home game for me Yeah, well you and Perry Lefcoe He's nearby there too

Oh yeah shout out to Perry Okay, so I have a measuring tape for you From Ridley Funeral Home I mentioned earlier They have a podcast called Life's Undertaking Speaking of podcast I want to shout out Building Toronto Skyline with Nick Aienis

We have an episode next week with Karen Stintz Who is on Toronto Mike earlier this week and has a new book. I'm looking at it called Beyond Good Enough, Toronto in the Crisis of Urban Complacency. And we're going to talk about affordable housing. So check out building Toronto Skyline with Nick Iienes. One last tip for you, Doug, before I get to these rapid fire questions. If you have old cables, old electronics, old devices, I don't know, you've got a closet or something in Mississauga full of this stuff, a drawer. Don't throw it in the garbage, Doug. Go to recyclemyelectronics.ca. Put in your postal code and find where you can drop that off to be properly recycled.

So those chemicals do not end up in our landfill. Got it, Doug. I'm all for that. I'm all for that. We're in the downsized point of our career. Time to get rid of those cables you've had since the 80s. Exactly. Speakers and crappy around us.

Recycle my electronics.cate. Okay, we now live in a world. We live in a city where all the major men's teams now are controlled and owned by Rogers. So I need to know, because prior to that, MLSE had kind of a, it was half Bell, half Rogers, and that was like 37.5% each. Now it's all Rogers. Like, does that change anything from your perspective

as a man who's immersed in the minutia of the Toronto Raptors? Does it make any difference on any level that now it's, you know, Edward Rogers is in charge? I think it's bad because they are, their agenda for one sport would generally carry over to others and the sports are not the same. And I think that's the, what the money you can save bringing a hockey team this way,

doesn't necessarily work as the same way to run a basketball team, but you try to do it because it's a corporate thing, you're going to fail at both. And I don't, I don't think it's good. I think if there's someone else in the boardroom with you, whether that was, and I think it checks in balance right now.

Yeah, you're a dictator. I guarantee you. that people, fans in Toronto will miss Larry Tanabom more than they could possibly imagine in the next two years. Because he was a guy, I'm a huge fan of Larry Tanab, because I think he did great things for Canada and for Toronto sports. And he cared about the teams, and he wanted to see them win. And I think there become a vehicle to a corporate process now with Rogers and I don't think that's good. And I always wonder, why

does Rogers hate women's sports so much? Like, you know what I mean? Like the WNBA team is like, nah. Yeah. And I don't know if they had a chance of the PWHHL, but Larry jumped in and got it. Right. And I know it was Rogers

and his boardroom cohorts who blocked the WNBA. I know this for a fact. Right. And Larry was ready to sign off on it. And they said, no, we're not doing this. And to their, whether that was personal or whether that was business, that was wrong and it was a mistake. And I think they're seeing it because they're doing 21,000 people in

a game in Montreal. They're doing 19,000 when they played Scotia Bank. They're selling basically every ticket at Coca-Cola now. It's, it's the, it's the way, but if you, if you're a sports monolith, you want the next step, women's sports the next step. and you've stumbled right out of the gate. So stay tuned here. We live in a Rogers world. It's driving me bonkers, but that's a short drive. Okay, quick hit here, because I don't know if you can say anything,

except it is an interesting side note as we talk about Kauai returning to the Raptors that Nick Nurse is suing the Ontario government for like almost $700,000. He feels he's owed for some tax he paid on some multi-million dollar home. I don't think there's any more to it, but just, just interesting to see Nick's name show up in the news. And it gets back to the other, the sort of a cross-border lifestyle, these athletes.

And they need to have days of residency. And I think that's at the basic of this, the base of this, is how many days was, did he live there? Right. Right. And that's what, you know, the teams balance that. We okay, be 165 days or whatever it is.

Right. Players, they know, okay, this isn't a day. so I got to make a day somewhere else. That's a level of we don't have to care about. There's an app for that. Shout out to the snowbirds. There's an app for that.

Demarta Rosen. He hasn't signed anywhere, right? Like, where does he play? I think Miami or Denver, but I don't know which. Maybe Brooklyn, but I think not Toronto, unfortunately. I would love, I would love for DeMara to come back.

There's no money. There's no role. And I think he knows it. I think everybody knows it. but Miami or Denver would be the leaders right now. I was reading the news the other day. The Russell Westbrook has retired. Yeah.

And I was thinking, what a great player. I was thinking, oh, he never won an NBA championship. And then I started wondering to myself, and you've been around, you've watched how. Who do you think, in your humble opinion, this is, there's no right or wrong answer, obviously. But who do you think is the best player who never won the NBA championship? And I'm putting you on the spot here. Charles Barkley. That's a good one.

Would you say he's a better player than Malone in Stockton in Utah? He's individual. He might be better than each. No, certainly not. Yeah, they were inseparable for so many years. And they played for two. Chuck only played for one during Phoenix. Oh, yeah, he carried them to that finals, as I recall.

Ross and Westbrook did make it to the finals once with the Oklahoma team. Yeah, but they went into... The first LeBron win. Right, right. Another couple, if you knew it, I always like to shout out because he never did win at all, but Steve Nash.

Steve Nash. Got a shout out Steve Nash there. Okay. And a couple other guys, one, it's not too late, but, you know, James Hardin never won. And Chris Paul never won.

So these are just some guys I was thinking about who had, yeah, Chris Paul's a good, interesting one. Hardin had play-up issues. Yeah. Yeah, but you look good against us. But, okay.

the beard. Okay, tell me, please, though, in your humble opinion, having followed the Raptors, covered the Raptors for the entirety of their franchise existence, who is your personal, and this is a loaded question, who's your favorite Raptor to have covered in your illustrious career, Doug Smith? And why is it Oliver Miller? Nice. He would be at the other end of that spectrum. I have a huge soft spot for Damar because we watched him grow up.

He came here as a 19-year-old kid who didn't speak and left an eloquent 27-year-old father, dad, great guy, willing to lay himself out there. Great quote. Charles Oakley was my favorite because you never knew what he was going to say. So you had to be around him all the time. You never knew. That's a good one. But when that gets short shrift, Jalen Rose. Jalen Rose.

Jeline Rose is a great quote, good guy, smart guy. Funny guy. Fab five. Speak as truth. Always never, never, good truth teller. So I think people

sleep on jail in a little bit. Love it here. Who do you think is the, the best Toronto Raptor of all time? Kyle Lauer is the best. Vince Carter is most important. I think there's a difference. Well,

let me just pull in that thread for a moment here. So I, like the first number ever retired in Raptors history is number 15 for Vince Carter. Okay. I mean, like yours to self, I live this era, and I do have issues with him essentially, like, quitting on the team. So he kind of quits on the team. It was a bad trade.

It's part of it. I remember I feel like he stopped, you'll remind me, he stopped dunking, right? No, no. Why do I feel like he just decided I don't, I no longer dumb? Because he was pissed off at Barry Davis for answering all kinds, asking all kinds of questions to get tired of. And shut up, I'm not going to talk anymore. facetiously after practice one day and now it became more.

But he did he did seemingly quit on the Toronto Raptors. I think as much as people say he quit on the Raptors, I think the Raptors quit on him. This is a Babcock era, right? Yeah, he was playing, I think, for his fourth coach and third general manager in seven years. Right.

The team was awful and they were pivoting. They were moving away from him to Chris Bot. and he knew it. And you look, if you look at the stats, and I've had this argument with colleagues for 25, 20 years now, his usage was down.

He was being played differently with different combinations in different spots, and he got frustrated by it. And he didn't play very well for the first 24 games, no question. But I do know the day before he got traded.

The day before, in Indianapolis, he went to the coaching staff and said, you know what, Let's make this work. Let's do, I'll come off the bench or I'll do. Whatever you got to do, you guys go, I'll play with whoever.

I don't want to go anywhere. Let's make this work. The night, he told them that. The next morning you got traded. Wow. Well, that's a, wow. Okay. Well, I'm going to ask you another question on the Vince Carter front.

If the Raptors keep Antoine Jameson, who they drafted that year, 98 NBA draft, Antoine Jameson, if they keep him instead of trading him to Golden State, for Vince Carter. Do the Raptors go the way of the Grizzlies? Like, do we still have a, do we, is there a Raptors team today? I think we do because of strength of ownership,

but it would never have been, it wouldn't have been nearly as good as it was with Vince because he was such an electric player. And Paul James is a great basketball player, no question, but he could not energize bands. There was no Air Canada, a half-man, half-amazing action.

And there was, there was a point in the 19th, 1999-2000 era Vince was one of the top five players on earth The conversation was okay Kobe or Vince that that's the kind of level he was being discussed that Rarified air Yeah and

Todd Jameson for as good a career he had Was was not that electric kind of guy And the fans, you know people fans in Toronto they like the show as much as like to sing And he was a show bc was a show When Damon Stoddermeyer was a show when Damon Stoddimer was drafted the fans were channing for Edel Bannon because that's what they'd watch on March Madness

yeah so okay so we're going to get scars UCLA well thinking back at some of these things that broke right right okay Kyle Lowry you mentioned is his number 7 the next number to be retired by the Toronto Raptor yes but yeah how soon does that happen this year March is that a done deal or you guessing no no I'm just guessing I wonder if I missed that one.

Just after first here. You know, so I'm glad, I'm glad I'm glad I'm personally glad Vince Carter's number 15 was retired first, but if Kyle Lowry's number seven isn't next, that's, that would be ludicrous to me. I think that's got to happen. Yeah. And I don't know, there's, I'm not sure that's a third number. That's a great point.

It depends what happens in the next chapter of the Kwai Leonard story. That's, that would be the thing that would bring it back. Yes. That's an excellent point. Because pound per pound, like sometimes you'll get tricked by things. things and they'll be like, oh, who's the greatest Toronto pitcher and whatever? And it's like, oh, it's Roy Halliday. No, it's Dave Steve and the debate happens.

And then you're like, well, is it quality or quantity? Because if you're going by quality, it's Roger Clemens. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know what? Two Sy Youngs and two? Triple crown? I think they were both triple crowns. That's pretty good.

Well, that says, what more do you want, right? And then it's like, when you talk about the Raptors, like, okay, how much weight do we put into quantity? Because he only played one season until now. He was unbelievable. Unbelievable. Yeah. You know, it's,

But it comes back and they play for another title or played deep in the playoffs for two years, then you've got to put number two out there, maybe. You know, I'm glad he's back because it's got me all tingling and excited about the 20, 26, 27th season. Frankie G. And by way, how are you doing?

You're finally in the basement, Doug. I've got to say, thank you for being here, man. My pleasure. That's been great. You're going to, I've decided now you'll come back every August and set us up, and I'll get you more lasagna from Palma pasta each time and some Great Lakes beer.

Okay. Frankie G says Ask Doug his thoughts When and oh you know what We actually cover I feel like we spoiled this But I'm glad you did but we'll get some more detail from you I should have known this was coming I'm doing a terrible job even though I'm an award winning podcaster Doug Smith

That's a fact Frankie G says ask Doug his thoughts when and if he was in the scrum When Vince Carter said in 2004 That he doesn't want to dunk anymore when he was with the Raptors That was the year he wanted out and was averaging 10 points less than his career average early in the season. We've probably done this. We've rinsed it.

But maybe just since Frankie G, I spoiled his question. Vince was averaging, I think, 10 shots, 10 points per game less. I bet he was averaging six shots for your game. Were you in that scrum? So Barry Davis, okay. Yes. We like our team, Barry. Shout out to FOTM, Josh Donaldson.

Okay. So, and he's, you know, he's got in a bunch of cover bands. now, Barry Davis. Yeah, he was like, but he was a, as a reporter, he was a, in Seth and he went at you. He was, and I, I know, I know Vince. He got frustrated. Like, screw it. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not anymore.

Oh, that's funny. So you were in that scrum. And you knew, but did you, I guess you could have imagined that the media will run with this because there is a legend out there that he stopped. I have it in my mind that he stopped dunking and it must come from this. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's, it'd be, yeah. Yeah, that was like before social media.

So imagine what it would have been like now. Even back then, it became this big cause salabra for no reason because if you were there listening, that's how you report it precisely or you would never take him seriously because it was, because you wouldn't. You wouldn't. Yeah. I was never one to write that no, he's not going to dunk anymore because I knew that he was. Just that he was frustrated.

He was a snoricky comment. Yes. And Vince could do snark. Vince can be snark. He was good. Now looking back here, and now that we're talking Vince, we talk Kauai,

we're talking Vince. I'm enjoying this very much. But I also remember game seven against the 76ers, right? And I remember thinking at the time, and I was a younger man, but I was definitely, you know, I was a man.

I remember thinking at the time, like, I know it's important to attend like a graduate. ceremony and I get it, but it just felt like maybe you don't attend that graduation ceremony in game seven. I don't know. Do you feel like if he was putting the team first and really focused on the Larry OB? Maybe he doesn't attend, was it North Carolina graduation?

I can certainly agree with that, but I'm more ambivalent than anything because I don't, I know that he was back, but he was probably back in this hotel room on the Saturday night before many of his teammates were back. from their dinners that night in Philadelphia. So I don't think it was, I don't think it was tiring to him. I don't think it was an arduous. He didn't like line up at an airport for three hours to sit in a middle seat.

He was, it was pretty much relaxing. He was back on the Sunday morning for the pregame meeting at 11. So, good point. I was, I didn't, I don't treat it as a very big deal. But I can see white people either way. It's a nothing burger. My point, yes. even back then was.

This is why I'm glad there's people covering the team who've been around and have this kind of perspective. This is why I'm glad you're still here, buddy. So, on that's our closing note here is we're coming up very short. When is opening day? October 22nd, I think, for them. Camp starts with the 29th.

Okay, so it's all going to happen soon. You know, the CNE's going to open, and it's going to be a mad rush there to the end of it. I can't believe it's already mid-August here. 2026-27 season for the Raptors is looming. So my question is, so you're covering the team in 95 and I'm wondering at that time,

what is your industry like, the Toronto media people that are there versus what you'll see this coming season? Like just... It's almost... It's so big, the change is so great that's hard to explain it because back then,

there was no internet. You didn't have a story at noon. You didn't tweet. You didn't blue sky. You didn't post. You didn't care. You went to your office, wrote a story, went back to bed. You went home, done.

Right. Got up to the next day. The same thing. Now you go to a practice and there are, well, first off, there's probably, if there are percentages, there are 20 people there, 12 of them work for the team. Right. Website, social, marketing. Or like sports net is a...

Well, that part, yeah, that whole dynamic is weird, yes. So I got to run around the baseball because it would drive me nuts. But there are so many people, there are far many, too many people around all sports who are fans rather than reporters. And what they want to be there is to say I was able to talk to this guy. Or their questions are, hey, here's how smart I was. you think and it's to the credit of the athletes who don't say shut up or coaches don't say no and i think there's young i'm sorry young's not the right word inexperienced reporters um expect respect

rather than earn it. And I think that's a different in the business overall. Interesting, interesting insight there. And in terms of sheer numbers, like I remember having Perkins and we talked about how much, just forget the industry,

just the Toronto Star. So Mr. Perkins, how many people working for the Toronto Star would be in Atlanta for game six of the 1992 World Series? And I just, thinking back, his number was an enormous number.

number. Just the number? No, it was because it's not just the writers. It was also camera people. Like there was all these different. It was a huge number. I got to go pull that tape, but it was way more than four.

And then we would talk about how many would be there, like how many were at game, I don't know, would be, game seven was at the dome, right? But okay, the World Series in 2020. Like the numbers have dwindled so enormously.

Yeah. So I'm wondering, as this season looms here, you're going to, at the first Raptor game at the Scotia Bank Arena, who will be joining you in the press box from a Toronto-based publication that's not a Rogers employee? Well, it's you. Yeah, maybe the two colleagues that have, perhaps the son will have one guy there.

Would Brian, would that be the Waws? Waz, Waz, Waz will be there, but mostly Waz will be there. Simmons might be there. Outside of that, supports that. TSA will have, like, Josh, one big up there, I presume. Yeah. The athletic will be around.

But once you get, there'll be a lot of independent, like, websites, the Raptor Republic, Raptor, Rapture, whatever, I can't name them all. But there'll be an awful lot of Roger people there, and there'll be an awful lot of rapper people there. Like, a lot of, like, a lot of, like,

they're open house people, there are social media people, they're PR people, they're marketing people, there's a lot of them. And there are a lot of TV people. And the numbers are just huge. But in the industry,

but in our business, the last Olympics I covered for the star was Rio. And we had, let me think, one, two, three, four, five, six people there. We had two in Paris. Wow.

So there's the difference in time. And, you know, the Toronto Star is, you know, much like the Toronto Sun. These are independent entities, but do you have any concern personally with Raptors coverage coming from Sportsnet, for example, which is not the team, but is getting paid by the same company? I don't because I know the people involved personally on the Raptor beat, and I trust their objectivity, their abilities, their professionalism. In 20 years, I don't know. 10 years, I don't know.

In two years, you don't know. Yeah, but the guys that I know, Mike Grange, who I know in respect. Love Grange. I have huge respect for, he's not going to get, he's not going to be cowed by working for sports then. You're going to write what he was going to write. But he's got to, he's got to send kids to university and pay mortgage and stuff, too. Like, I mean, both of the kids in school out of school now, so he's fine.

He can retire. All right. In Grange, yeah. He could race through, he could race through the home. Grange, by the way, when he was in university out east, a huge fan of an up-and-coming band

knowing as Blue Rodeo. He called himself a bluehead. I'm not surprised. You know, so when I did, it's funny, I just had the anniversary and I posted on social media, but I went to the woodshed in Riverdale there to chat with Jim Cuddy.

And I shared with him the, the Grange story. Jim Cuddy remembers like these blue heads who would show up in Nova Scotia or whatever. I didn't know. I can't wait to talk to Rain Grain. Yeah, ask Grange about Blueheads.

I will for sure. This is part of the Grange story, which is fantastic. But you're fantastic, Doug. Like, I really enjoyed. That was good, man. That's great. You know, Zoom's are one thing.

You're in a Minnesota hotel room. And like, it's good. I got a real-time chat with you. But to me, the energy, the feeding off you, there's nothing like. No. You getting you in the base. And this is why I'm such a hard ass with most people.

So, so many people. Hey, I just, Danny Elwell wants to kick out the jams. Like, oh, can I do it from New Jersey? I'm like, oh, you're not going to. I just on Blue Sky yesterday. I'm like,

you're not going to like my answer, which is you're going to have to be in South Atobico to do it or we don't do it. And you're here. Oh, it's great. So thanks for making the trek, man. No, this is closed here. It's like a home game for me, almost. So I'll see you next week then.

Okay. But you know what this means? Because when you are on Zosos, Zoom from a hotel room in Minnesota. You don't get a selfie with me by Toronto Tree like everybody else. That's true. And I've seen so many on the social media. I'm proud to go out there.

It would be on the Pantheon. Much like the great Michael Grange, much like Leo Routens. Although I've been for years, Maddie Devlin has threatened to come over and we never put the dates together. Really? I know. And I really, I'm going to, maybe tap them on the show. I really want to.

Devlin in the base. I'll tell you what I did. I've done this. I'll do a remote for certain people. I mentioned I went to the woodshed. I feel like from Maddie Devlin, just tell me where you want me to set up my damn microphones and they'll do it in person there.

Have you had Jack Armstrong? Hello! He's actually the guy I was thinking of when I, he said, meet me at the hotel. You know that, is it the Marriott? What's that? Queens, Key and York.

What's that hotel called? Anyways, he goes, Meet me in the lobby. Whatever he said. 11 a.m. And he goes, make sure you bring me Great Lakes beer.

I literally biked. I biked my studio to this, I think it's a Marriott. I got to see what that is. But it's that, you know, on Queens Key, kind of where York is.

And I literally... The Weston? Yeah, I guess it's the Weston Harbor Castle. Yeah, yeah. I hear the TV shows. Okay. So anyway, I got the gear in a trailer

and I biked it there. And this was, I didn't have a permit or permission. I literally took a table in the lobby. I set up my microphone. the board you see here, this laptop, I had to plug it in because the battery has probably been dying since then. And I had a great chat with Jack Armstrong. That's the efforts I'll go to.

There you go. Okay. So tell Maddie D. Let's do it. I'll work on that. All right. You got some homework here. Thanks, Doug.

This was a thrill for me. Mike, it was great fun. Great time. Can't wait for next August. And the Christmas party. Yeah, okay. Well, 100%. You're going to be at Palma's Kitchen for TMLX-24.

100%. Bring Kauai with you. He's everywhere else. Yeah, he's making the rounds. Okay. And that brings us to the end of our 1,951st show, 1951. Go to Toronto Mike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. And much love to all who made this possible.

That is Great Lakes Brewery. That is Palma Pasta. That is Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Nick Aini's from Building Toronto, Toronto, Skyline, Recycle My Electronics.C.A. and of course, Ridley Funeral Home, there's a fresh episode of Life's Undertaking, waiting for you. See you on.

I gotta go to my calendar, Doug. I should have done this beforehand. I always do this real time like an idiot. Who's next? Who's next on Toronto Mike? Let's see here. Oh my God. Prairie Oyster, founder and lead singer,

Russell DeCarle. Prairie Oyster was actually coming up in the same scene as Blue Rodeo. This would be fantastic. So that's Monday, August 17 at 1 p.m. See you all. Then.