Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Dr. Liza Spills the Dragon's Den Tea: Toronto Mike'd #965

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

Mike chats with Dr. Liza Egbogah about her recent appearance on Dragon's Den and what happened to her after the deal was struck.

Tonight on Dragon's Den. For a husband and wife team who's breathing new life into the way that Canadians think about and plan for end of life. Ooh, this is spooky. So, if I make you an offer, am I going to have a problem trying to convince you and coach you and explain to you?

No problem. We want to learn, Mr. Guza. I developed a line of beautiful shoes. You can walk in them. You can dance in them. You can jump in them. It's the most important thing. And then you balance. You can stretch in them. Wow. So. Welcome to episode 965 of Toronto Mic'd, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery,

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Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and returning to the program is an FOTM who has the most interesting story to share about her recent experience on Dragon's Den. Dr. Liza Egboga is one of North America's leading body and posture experts, a manual osteopath,

chiropractor, myofacial release therapist, clinical director, and the designer of Dr. Liza Shoes. Let's hear the tale of her appearance on Dragon's Den and what happened when the television lights went off. So Dr. Liza, how did you end up on Dragon's Den? So, I mean, I've always loved the show Dragon's Den. It's something that I have watched. I've always been an entrepreneur. So that was a show that spoke to me. And I was like, one day I can see myself on Dragon's Den. And then earlier this year, one of the producers from Dragon's Den actually reached out to me and asked me to apply for my brand Dr. Liza's Shoes. And I thought, you know what? The timing must be right.

This must be it because they're reaching out to me. I'm ready for Dragon's Den. It's, you know, I've been doing this for almost five years now and I'm totally ready to go into the den. So that's how it started. So I applied for the show, did the, I guess, audition. show, did the, I guess, audition. And yeah, then I was invited to pitch for the Dragons and my episode did air. Okay. So when did you record your episode? Oh gosh, that, I think it was in May, April, May. So many, many months ago. And I suppose they tell you like, you can't talk about this.

You have to keep it all a secret and until it airs right yeah so we signed you know the NDA the big contract saying that you can't reveal anything that happened in the den until your show airs and then once it airs then do whatever you want now Dr. Liza you're an FOTM so of course I'm always interested when FOTMs are doing exciting new things. So I knew you were appearing on a dragon's den that, that night and remind us when did this episode air? It was recently, right? Yeah. So it aired December 2nd, which I guess was 10 days ago. Yeah. That's the, yeah, that's 11 days ago, I guess, but less than two weeks ago. i knew and you know uh my wife

monica also reminded me and it's like you know dr liza's on dragon's den so i was there i was tuned in i'm like okay fotm dr liza's on the den and for those who haven't seen it dr liza and i should tell people they can see your episode right now on cb Gem. I believe you can go to CBC Gem, which all Canadians can get for free and watch your episode of The Den. But tell us, how did it go for you on The Dragon's Den that aired in early December? Yes, so I did a really great pitch for Dr. Lime's Shoes. Next to step into The Den, a posture expert from Toronto who hopes her longstanding mission aligns with the dragons.

I feel like kicking off my shoes too. There we go. Hi, I'm Dr. Liza from Toronto, Ontario. And today I'm asking for $200,000 for 20% of my namesake company, Dr. Liza Shoes. Million bucks. Million dollar company. Yes. Ladies, and maybe even gentlemen, if you have ever worn heels before,

you are all too familiar with the searing pain that comes after a day of wearing them. And you just want to kick them off, get that relief, change into some nice, comfortable slippers, right? All three of us have very large shoe collections. Yes. After over a decade of treating women for high heel-related pain, I decided that we needed a solution. And that's why I developed Doctrilizer Shoes, a line of beautiful shoes that you can wear all day long comfortably that are great for your posture and great for your body. You can walk in them. You can dance in them.

You can jump in them. It's the most important thing. Dancing in them. And then you can balance. You can stretch in them. Wow. And dragons, I have shoes for you all. Okay.

So I invite you to give them a try. Even the men got some shoes. What kind of doctor are you? I'm a chiropractor and an osteopath. Okay. They're definitely a more comfortable pair of high heels than my Louboutins. Let's see. It's a pretty good swag here.

Yours are cute, Arlene. Yeah? Okay, it doesn't feel like I've got heels on, definitely. Dr. Liza's line of posture shoes range from casual slippers and sneakers to high-heeled pumps and boots. You've got to strut it. You've got to strut. Costure shoes range from casual slippers and sneakers to high-heeled pumps and boots. We got to strut it. You got to strut it. Her shoes are designed with the same type of platform found in running shoes,

and she says they minimize joint impact by balancing the body. I was offered a deal by Manjeet for $200,000 for 40% of my company. My initial valuation was a million. So 200,000 for 20%. So she cut my valuation in half to evaluate it at 500,000. But my approach going in was the first dragon that offered a deal. I was going to accept it right away on the spot without negotiation. So I actually accepted Manjeet's deal before even, I think there was still one dragon left to go before even hearing that. Because I knew if I got into the den and I started to negotiate or hesitate, they would pull the deal. So that was my strategy, accepted the first offer, no negotiations, and that was that. Dr. Liza, I love how you have not only stood up to the pressure,

but you're the real deal. And I definitely invest in entrepreneurs. And so I know retail really, really, really well. However, I don't know anything about the shoe business, especially the specialized shoe business. However, doesn't mean I can't learn. I've learned a lot of things by investing in awesome entrepreneurs in the show. So I will give you an offer and we'll take this journey together. I'll offer you $200,000, but I want to be a partner with you. So I will offer you that for 40% of the business.

I'll take it. Deal. I need a partner. Once I have a partner, I know, you know, we're taking it to 50 million. It's happening. Just in time.

Looking forward to it. High five. Great. Look forward to it. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Congratulations. High five. Great. Look forward to it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Congratulations. All done.

If you end up with posture that good at the end of this, you'll have earned your money. Like I'm six feet tall. We're all sitting up a little straighter. I got to sit up straighter. Okay. So Manjeet makes this offer to you and you, you follow through with your strategy and you accept it.

And so in hindsight, though, and then we'll get again, we'll get into the details of what happened since this deal was struck. But is that a good deal for you, Dr. Liza? I'm not a great businessman myself, but is that a great deal for you, the offer that Manjeet made? Is that a great deal for you, the offer that Manjeet made? Well, the thing is, it's not a great deal for me because my valuation from my perspective going in was already low. And the reason that I had what I considered a low valuation, given what my sales were, is because I was doing that part-time. So I'm still in practice.

I still do a lot of other things. And so my most valuable asset is actually my time. So since I wasn't giving it all my time, that's why I was like, you know what, it's fair to have that as a valuation. And at the end of the day, this is a TV show, right? So negotiations can happen after. So on that note, because a lot of us don't know exactly how the cake is baked here. When you appear on Dragon's Den, like what do you sign? Like what is the deal? Like like, for example, deals made on the program.

Are they real or is it something like a starting point point for real negotiations later? Like what is the rules? Okay, so the premise is when Dragon offers you a deal, they're doing that in good faith. And, but it's not, you know, there's nothing signed or sealed on the spot, right? Because obviously they have to go through due diligence. They have to confirm that everything you said in

the pitch, you know, it, it starts like that. Like they are really interested in investing in your company. And if everything that you sold them or said was true, then technically you should end up with a deal. Right. Right. So that's what, that's what I went into it. You know, I prepared, like I was preparing an actual pitch debt for an actual venture capitalist. Right. So that's what I went into it you know I prepared like I was preparing an actual pitch deck for an actual venture capitalist right so that's how I went into the show because I'm like I'm going in there for an actual partner not to just be on a tv show and get my brand publicity like it was literally to make an actual deal with a dragon because I was at that point in my business and there's no way I'm going on TV sharing all my business information

unless I'm serious about actually working with a dragon. Okay. So before we get to the meaty stuff here, maybe we step back a little bit and just remind us specifically, what is your business that you were looking to strike a deal with? Remind us. Yeah. So I have a line of orthopedic shoes, which look nothing like orthopedic shoes. So they're actually designer, beautiful shoes that are all designed so that you can wear heels all day long and still be comfortable. And it's good for your body and posture. So these are fashion forward designer shoes that are actually good for you women's shoes and man she uh i saw in the episode she tried to pair on right and she uh yeah they all try

to pair on and what she said was oh wow they don't feel like heels at all wow so this is she loved the shoes and this was a very exciting moment because uh like when i'm watching on television with monica you know fotm dr liza that's your new title uh has a deal and manjeet's in and it's like it's just a great story that you guys are going to go uh partner together and sell a lot of shoes in a lot of great places through a lot of different channels and it's the beginning of this great you know success story and it all kind of uh happens well you did all the hard work of course for years and years but then then it seems like it all happens on dragon's den but can you and it's very exciting yeah it was exciting but here we are talking on toronto mic because i guess um

it didn't all uh turn out the way we all we we think it might have turned out having watched that episode of dragon's den yeah so i was especially excited to work with manji because my hometown is calgary she's from calgary i know the capability that her businesses have with like production warehouse you know all these things that would really help with distribution so after the after you're done with dragon's den you you know they they wipe their hands of you guys are like now whatever deal you guys have it's between you and the dragon like this part is done so the television show is made so the whole production and cbc and all that they're now done with this this is now between you and manjeet yeah this is an actual business transaction and a

business partnership between you and the dragon this has nothing to do with the show anymore which is how it should be sure so i get the you know all the information they require, their agreement, and it's quite a lengthy request. So typically, when you are doing a deal like this or having to provide that amount of requirements, you usually actually have between 30 to 90 days. I had about five business days to complete it. And I thought, you know what? I'm very serious about this.

I want this to happen. I don't care if I have to lose sleep. I'm going to make this happen. So in a couple of days, maybe two days, I put together a hundred pages of all my business information, all the financials, everything that was requested on this long list. The thing is, when I am working with someone, and someone, I think someone is going to invest in me, I give it my 100%, right? Like, everything was laid out nicely, tapped in, you know, every,

you know, and the thing is when we had, when I go into the dragon's den, I used to compete in math. So all my numbers are my numbers. There's no, like everything is exactly as it is. Like I remember every single number. Okay.

But so I'm sorry to interjecting here, but I got questions like for it. Why such an aggressive and insane deadline? Like if she wants to work with you five business days to me for that kind of information in that detail, it does not sound reasonable. No. And so in my, my first thought was like, okay, this is her way of weeding out people who are not serious because only the most determined of people will submit that information in that amount of time. And that's me, the most determined of people will submit that information in that amount of time.

And that's me, the most determined of people. So I thought, you know, I'm going to do this. But clearly this is a way to weed out all these things. She probably makes a lot of deals on the show. She needs to weed it out to the people that are serious. I was like, okay, I will jump through this hoop. I will do this. No problem.

I was like, okay, I will jump through this hoop. I will do this. No problem. So after, I think, maybe a couple weeks after I submit all that information, her assistant reaches out and says, okay, so now we will set up our first meeting. I was like, okay, great. I'm really looking forward to it. And she's like, and also before the meeting, just we need you to send some more samples. I I was like, Oh no, don't worry about it. I already gave her samples at the show.

And she's like, no, we need more samples to have on hand for your meeting. I was like, okay, sure. So I went ahead, sent the samples. We set up the first meeting. I'm still in clinic practicing. Right. So I block off a couple of hours in my schedule. I'm still in clinic practicing right so I block off a couple of hours in my schedule I'm like don't book anyone here set everything up have all the shoes arranged like you know I'm like this is our first partnership meeting I really want to make it a great one so I'm on the zoom call and 15 minutes goes by I'm like okay she's not here I'm like let me just reach out to her assistant to see whether she's still going to, you know, make it onto the call. So I emailed the assistant, like, okay, I'm just on the call and Manjeet's not here. And she's like, okay, let me look into this. And she's like, oh, yeah, it wasn't in her calendar. It looks like she's on a plane. I was like, oh, okay. I mean, things happen, you know, it's a pandemic, right? So I was like, we'll, we'll reschedule. So a couple of weeks later we set up our next appointment.

I was like, okay, I'll do it on a day when I'm not even in clinic. So I drove down to my clinic downtown, set everything up and I'm on her time zone, right? So like, let me, I'll do, I'll, whatever time works for her I'll do I'll make it I'll make it work even if it doesn't work for me I'll make it work so again drive downtown set everything up sitting on the call 15 minutes pass again I email the assistant I'm like oh I'm just on the and the call and Manjeet's not here. And she's like, okay, I'll check it. I'll look into this. And then she's like, oh, so

it turns out that Manjeet's on another call and it's running really long and she didn't have you in her calendar. I was like, that's interesting. I mean, you're her assistant. You would put it in her calendar if it was, you know. At this point, I'm like, are they playing me? This is so disrespectful. Like, who does this if it was you know right at this point i'm like are they playing me this is so disrespectful like who does this to someone you know twice right you sure don't do this

to somebody that you actually would like to partner with and work exactly you would never i mean i wouldn't treat like my worst enemy like that much less someone that i want to work with right fool me once someone if you don't shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Yeah, and at that point I was like, you know what, maybe I should be done. I've headed over all this information every month since the Dragon's Den. I've also had to send

a full monthly report of my business, what's going on, gains, loss, and financials. I'm like, you know what, maybe this is just for my information and she has no desire to work with me because all these steps don't make sense. And I'm like, you know what, maybe this is just for my information and she has no desire to work with me because all these steps don't make sense. And I was like, you know what, you've put so much work into it.

Like, so much work. Putting together that financial information was like writing a thesis. I was like, you've already put in so much work. You sent all these sheets. You spent all this money. You need to just give it one more chance, right? and if the third time doesn't work out then i mean that's like that could never happen no one would be that disrespectful like it

could never happen right so i set up another meeting a couple weeks later same thing i'm like may i ask what part of the year like calendar calendar year? So you kind of record this, you said in like March and it airs. Okay. So I think in May, sorry, May is when we did it. And then probably June was the first one,

maybe July, the July, the second one. And then the third one, I think we made again in July. Okay. And this time I'm like, you know what?

The time zone that worked for her did not work for me. Right? Like that's the time where I was supposed to be home with my son, but I'm like like you know what the time zone that worked for her did not work for me right like that's the time where I was supposed to be home with my son but I'm like you know what I'm serious let me do this third time's the charm we're going to have a great meeting and then you know she'll apologize for this and we'll be good you know so I go downtown to my clinic

again set up all the shoes all ready for the meeting again I'm on the Zoom call. 10 minutes pass. I'm like, is she serious? Five more minutes. I'm like, okay, you know, 15 minutes pass. Let me email the assistant again. I'm like, okay, I am on the call. Manjeet is not here. I guess if she's not here in another 15 minutes, I'll assume that there's no meeting and I will leave my clinic.

This is after hours that I came down to my clinic. Right. Time that you wanted to be spending with your son, but here you are third time. Yeah, this is our dinner time. Exactly. And I'm like, I came down. Oh, I'd be so mad. Dr. Liza, I would be so pissed off if the third time I was left there. It's like being stood up. It's like Lucy with the football. Okay, you're, you're gonna kick the football because Lucy's gonna hold it this time, third time. And once again, Lucy's gonna pull that football and you're gonna fall on your ass.

the grass on the whole field that's what it's like okay so I was like okay 15 minutes pass I'm on the call I'm like all right so I pack up leave leave my clinic the next morning my assistant's like oh there was a voicemail she called to say that she had technical difficulties and we can do the call now I'm like like, you actually had my cell phone number. In order to get my clinic number, you actually had to Google that, right? So you purpose, if you had called my cell phone number, you would have actually had to talk to me, but you didn't want to. So you waited until you made sure I was out of my clinic. And then you called my clinic phone. Wow. And then it makes it seem like it's me because I'm the one who left when you full-on knew that I had left because that's exactly what I said in the email that I

was leaving my clinic so then you called my clinic because if someone is serious after the first time you would have sent me an email to be like oh my gosh Dr. Liza I'm so sorry let's reschedule maybe it's not after the first time after the second time you would have sent me an email and been like oh my gosh Dr. Eliza I'm so sorry I can't believe you know that's so you know and after the third time you still didn't send me an email or call me because the goal of this is for you

like clearly you just wanted all the information but you never wanted to talk to me if you didn't want any information and you just didn't want to do the deal that is no problem after information and you just didn't want to do the deal that is no problem right after the show you just say you know what i don't think this is going to work out best of luck with everything and i would have been like oh okay yeah no problem right make me go through months of work yeah for you and give you all my business information just to do this to me but to

reiterate what you just said, if Manjeet had, I don't know, buyer's remorse, let's call it, and that happens, right? Which is perfectly fine. Right. Then be straight up, like be an adult business person and just be straight up and say, we've reviewed the numbers and I'm sorry, but we're gonna-

No, even before the numbers, just be like, you know what, this is not going to work out like she made it in the moment, blah, blah. Like, that's fine. But do you think, and again, numbers. Just be like, you know what? This is not going to work out like she made it in the moment. Blah, blah. That's fine. But do you think, and again, I'm only speculating, but was there a reason she might want the numbers even if she wasn't interested in the partnership?

So the only reason I was a little bit concerned is because during the taping, she mentioned that she was friends with one of my competitor shoe companies. And I was like, oh, huh. Huh, like, that's okay. You know, and so that's the only reason why I thought, okay, maybe that's why she wanted the information

because if you don't want the information, you'll just cut it from the start and just be like, it's not going to work out. But you strung me along for as long as I would tolerate, right? Until the very end of me giving you information. So this third time that you were ghosted, basically, because you were ghosted the three times. Never once did you hear from Manjeet? You always heard from like an assistant.

Since the dragon, the only time I ever spoke to her was in the dragon's den. I never heard from her again. Never once did I get an email from her. Never once did I get a call from her. Nothing. So you're ghosted the third time. Then I'm sure after three times, you're like, okay, I know when I'm not wanted or whatever

and you're like moving on with your life. But was there ever anything like any official, like any kind of correspondence from Manjeet's assistant or somebody in that organization? No, nothing. They never reached out to me again. Like just appeared, this is a true ghost,

like just three. Yeah, like a complete ghost. And the thing is, I was so humiliated because even my assistant, who's like the friendliest, most chipper person was like, she's like, she really most chipper person was like she's like she really doesn't respect you at all and i was like yes because you feel like she said technical difficulties for the last one i'm like it's 2021 everybody uses zoom nobody has

technical difficulties on zoom right and i mean 21 right and third you know three times like you know you're not nobody's that naive and you gave her the benefit 30 minutes yeah 30 minutes of technical difficulties really zoom and again the first two ghosts you could i guess because you know you're you're you're like myself you're canadian and by nature i feel like we give benefits of the doubt like uh more freely than maybe some other people do and I think after two times you were quite gracious to give her the benefit of the doubt and go for that third chance because this is something you want and you put in all that effort because to put those those those document that documentation together and those numbers and

everything and this is you know something you're very passionate about so you gave her a third shot and when you're ghosted the third time like you do nothing i guess like there's no well the thing is it was just you know at a certain point you just feel so like i was so excited for this opportunity right i feel like and the thing is it's not even about the money because it was a low valuation that's the kind of work i would expect to put in if someone wanted to invest a million dollars in my company right right but i'm gonna i'm gonna do this right because i'm like this person is going to take a chance on me they want to invest in me like i'm so appreciated and so grateful but by the third time honestly i was just broken i didn't even know what to what to say because i couldn't believe that you can set your hopes up so high work so hard and then someone will treat you like that when all you do is like make other people feel better you don't expect someone to

just try and break you like this it's just disrespectful because again this is disrespectful never personal but uh it's just so incredibly disrespectful that I'm so angry on your behalf because this is no way to treat somebody. And the way that you were offered the deal was such the most public of forums, like everyone who knows and loves you and cares about you, or even just acquaintances that you know a little bit are going to tune in and watch this happen. And they're all going to ask you,

firstly, everyone's going to be excited for you and congratulate you on the deal. And then I guess you have to sort of tell a version of this story to everybody who congratulates you on the deal. And it's just so disheartening because I feel like every time I have to explain that we're not working together, I feel like I'm re-traumatized, right?

Right. Like the worst is, like my mom. Right. Had told everybody. Of course. Like everybody that she's like, oh, why is it that I deal with,

you know, blah, blah, blah. Like it's great. She had this much investment. So everyone, I'm talking about people from Nigeria, the US, like everyone is fighting me.

And then when I told my mom that it didn't, she was just, you know, that she was so worried about me that she actually sent me money. She's like, oh, my gosh, after all this, she's like, the fact that you're out there begging for money. Because she's Nigerian, right? So it's just a thing. She's like, you're out there begging for money. And then she offered you so little. And then she still didn't perform.

She's like, you must be really desperate and not okay so you know she was so worried about me i was like i'm okay well so two things are now jumping to my mind one is that so this all happens in the summer but you're not allowed to talk about anything until this airs on the uh dragon's den which only happened in early december so for that period that's a lot of time to kind of hold the water on something that must have you pissed off, like royally pissed. For the first couple of months, I wasn't pissed off.

I was just so busy working to provide all this information, you know? And for me, you know, I'm like, I'm preparing. I'm like, you know,

we're probably later in the summer, we're going to end up doing our due diligence with Deloitte or something. So let me have everything in order. Let me work with my accountant, like let's structure everything. So it's perfect. And I'm ready, you know, like I take things seriously. So I actually was going through the steps to actually have this investment and get everything ready for the due diligence. Right. I will tell you how much I paid my accountant to get everything ready for the due diligence. Right. I won't tell you how much I paid my accountant to get everything ready for this due diligence that I thought was coming.

I thought it was a real, I thought it was a real deal. So I'm like, it's just all the money that I've spent, all the time that I spent. And then just to not even, not even the dignity of an email or even before the episode airs, just to be like, you know, sorry, things didn't

work out best of luck with anything but to never do anything after all that work all that money well dr liza it's so bizarre i gotta ask we got the whole story here right there's no like i don't know there's no part of this puzzle where you you flipped her the bird when she was going to her car in the parking lot or something like that. Like, we're not missing any significant details here, right? No, if someone offers me $200,000 and they want to invest in my company, I am just so ecstatic and happy about it. Okay, then I got to ask you. I got to ask you the big question. Why do you think she ghosted you like this and disappeared on you

like why do you think she disrespected you in this manner well this is my personal opinion i think she had no intention of actually working with me she didn't think that i would go through the steps right right and or she just wanted to get the information but one thing is certain she had zero intention even when she made that offer of ever working with me you know you uh you upset an fotm you upset all the fotms so uh everybody listening right now joins me upset though like my whole community too because it's just like who does that to somebody like at least send an email and also like does she do this often like are you are you a unique yes so i have the thing is i've talked to some other because after this other people

reached out to me too like and said you know yes, I was ghosted as well. But the difference is these other people didn't provide all this information. That's the difference. Like, honestly, if I was ghosted and didn't provide information, I would have zero problems. I'd be like, awesome, great show, got all this publicity. But don't make me work like that like i'm actually preparing for an actual deal for three months with no intention of actually doing the deal i wish you had just ghosted me from the start of course but you

should have just pulled out right from the start at all like i'm curious if at all this is worth it though because that that is national exposure that you can't afford to buy that kind of publicity. So the masses who don't follow you on social media and don't listen to you on podcasts, the masses think you got a deal because these Dr. Liza shoes, they kick ass. So that's pretty good press for your brand.

Oh, it's really good you know press for uh for your brand like oh it's really good press but it's not like the like for example if i have a article written in the toronto star that would drive about 10 times as much traffic as the show would drive right interesting it's a great show it's a great you know almost like an infomercial. Right. But the thing is, one thing you cannot put a price on for me is my time. Right. Or respect. Sure. There's no price. Like, even if the, yeah, there's just no, there's no price.

I take my time very, very seriously. And I hate to be treated like garbage, honestly. So here we are. And I have no problem with the show it's just the after effects not worth it now on December 13th as we chat here 2021 let's say somebody in Manjeet's corner her circle

inner circle links her to this episode and let's say Manjeet the dragon from dragon's den is listening to us right now uh firstly what would you like her to hear from your mouth and then is there any chance of her like realizing the error of her ways and reaching out and apologizing and you know building a business relationship? Well, I mean, she doesn't want a business relationship. And the only thing I would say is no matter what,

in business, in personal relationships, no one deserves to be treated like this. I think it's just so disrespectful. I mean, that's the only word. It's disrespectful. You can't treat people like garbage, right? Another word is rude. That's just rude. It's rude, yeah.

That's her thing on the show where she is the good cop, bad cop. She's the bad cop. She's the rude one. She's the Simon of the show, right? Yeah, exactly. She is. So no problem. Do that on the show, but when you take it to the real world, like, construct yourself professionally.

We are professionals. And when the producers of this show, right? Because, I mean, this is a, you know, I know it's a licensed production in Canada that started in another country, but the Dragon's Den has been on CBC for many years. When the producers and the people behind the show

catch wind of the fact that you were treated so rudely and disrespectfully, here's hoping maybe they talk to the dragons about some decorum and bedside manners should they strike a deal on the show that they regret later or never intended to uphold?

Well, I mean, they should have like a code of conduct, right? Right. Where if you are offering deals in the show and you don't intend to fulfill it, send them a letter after the show to let them know

that you're not planning on going forward. But don't do this. Yeah, this rigmarole, which is a waste of your time and your efforts, and I'd love to know what that... It's not just a waste of time. It's what I would consider abusive. It's an abuse of my time. It's

damaging. It's disrespectful. And you don't do that to people. And it's not okay. No, and I'm really sorry this happened to you. This was supposed to be a fantastic feel good story featuring FOTM Dr. Liza. And now we hear you were just treated so shabbily by, by this dragon. I'm just, I feel awful for you. And I, I hope you can make, dragon. I'm just, I feel awful for you. And I hope you can make, you know, lemonade out of these lemons. No, and the thing is, I'm doing great. Like business is great. And I use things like this as motivation to be like, well, look what you missed out on. But essentially, I mean,

the biggest issue for me with this is I had already had my previous clinic stolen from me by another person similar to Manji. So now when at a point in my business where I'm looking for investors and I'm looking for partnerships, I'm going to be much more hesitant, right? Where it's almost like there's a roadblock in my way versus had I not then had this experience, I would be more open to trusting partnerships and investors. And on that note, if people want to go back and listen to your first appearance on Toronto Mic'd, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

It was in the, the backyard on about a year ago. Yes. And it was episode 715. So if you go to the Toronto Mike archives, go to episode 715. We did talk very openly. I really opened my eyes.

We talked about systemic racism that you, you experienced in healthcare, fashion, retail, aviation, you experienced in healthcare, fashion, retail, aviation, school as a designer, entrepreneur, osteopath, chiropractor, and myofacial release expert. It was really enlightening. So people should listen to episode 715 of Toronto Mike to learn more about Dr. Liza. And Dr. Liza, I'm just glad to hear things are going so well for you otherwise, and I'm really sorry that this happened to you on the Dragon's Den. Well, yes. Well, as you know,

from the last time we talked, being exploited is something that I have to deal with on a regular basis, and here we go again. But you use it as fuel. I like your attitude here because you take it as rocket fuel. Well, I have no choice. It's survival, right? If I didn't use these it as fuel i like your your your uh attitude here because you take it as like

it's survival right if i didn't use these things as fuel i would i mean in by the time i like in school i would have already been become useless right so i have no choice i have to because this is what i deal with throughout my whole. Whole life. And if. Manjeet. And I know you kind of covered this. But I'll be very specific this time. If you catch word from Manjeet's assistant.

That she would like a fourth. Call with you. Would you. Try for a fourth. Call with Manjeet. Absolutely not. I would never speak to her again. Anyone who treats someone like this three times

does not deserve... Don't even say my name as far as I'm concerned. I never want to hear from you again. Thanks for chatting with me about this today. This is, again, we're learning how the cake gets baked

and it's not always as sweet and wonderful as it appears on our television sets. Yes, no, this one was very sour. And that brings us to the end of our 965th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Dr. Liza is at Dr. Liza. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery,

they're at Great Lakes Beer. Chef Drop is at Get Chef Drop. Moneris is at Moneris. McKay's CEO Forums are at McKay's CEO Forums. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. And Ridley Funeral Home is at Ridley FH. See you all next week. 10. Cause my UI check has just come in.

Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just just like mine and it won't go away because everything is well you've been under my skin for more than eight years it's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears and i don't know what the future can hold or do It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears. And I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you.

But I'm a much better man for having known you. Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and green. Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow won't stay today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away Cause everything is

rosy and gray Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who Yeah, I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of grey Cause I know that's true

Yes, I do I know it's true Yeah, I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah I know it's true How about you? I've been picking up trash and then putting down ropes And they're broken in stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am

But who gives a damn Because everything is coming up Rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine, it's just like mine And it won't go away, cause everything is rosy and gray Well, I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain

And I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything

is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms us today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away

Because everything is rosy now Everything is rosy now, everything is rosy and everything is rosy and gray.