Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Dr. Roberta Bondar: Toronto Mike'd #976

Episode Date: December 29, 2021

Mike chats with the first female Canadian astronaut and the world’s first neurologist in space Dr. Roberta Bondar about the 30th anniversary of her mission, her perspective on nature and climate change and space tourism, and so much more.

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Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. And Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. I'm Mike from Torontoontomike.com. And joining me. This week. Is the first female Canadian astronaut.

And the world's first neurologist in space. Dr. Roberta Bondar. Welcome to Toronto Mike. Dr. Roberta Bondar. Pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me. I'm curious. Do you own a t-shirt that reads,

First Neurologist in Space? No, I don't. I have multiple t-shirts. They mostly have birds on them because I decided to give myself a nickname, Astro Birda. Oh. I don't know. Seemed catchy at the time. Well, I was going to ask you about this shortly anyway, but I, of course, am aware you're quite the photographer.

Would you be somebody who takes many photos of birds? Is that one of your subjects? Yes, I trained many years ago in professional landscape and nature photography in the States after my space flight. It was recommended by the IMAX camera folks who are on my flight doing the Destiny in Space movie. And then really after going around Canada for two and a half years and photographing all of our national parks

and landscapes to have a collection for Canada at the turn of the millennium, I decided to move on to other things that have always interested me. And of course, flight is one of them. And birds, of course, for me, I admire them so much and admire the struggles they face. So I decided I would try to do a little bit more with the avian species of the world. So being a doctor and an astronaut wasn't quite enough for you.

Is that what I'm hearing? doctor and an astronaut wasn't quite enough for you. Is that what I'm hearing? Well, I think, yeah, well, maybe. I think what I try to do is leverage the thinking skills derived from both those kinds of things that I've done into what I'm doing now. And certainly, it never hurts to be a doctor these days. That's so true. So true. Now, may I call you Roberta? Well, millions of kids do. That's great. Thank you. Roberta, this is a thrill for me because my only previous encounter with somebody who's been to space was when I bumped into Chris Hadfield at a food festival at Fort York. So I'm quite excited to be speaking with you today. My pleasure.

today. My pleasure. And you talked about being a professional nature photographer. Chris loves music and plays often. So it sounds like you need to have an outlet of that nature, I suppose, a creative outlet when you're deep into STEM, as they say. I've always found science and technology deeply creative, actually. No, true. The idea to have a different way of expressing oneself, I think, is important for all of us. And some people can do it singing, even in the shower, I don't know. And a lot of people do it through other forms of what we call art. But there certainly is an art to science and certainly to medicine. The idea to

use one's brain as fully as possible during one's lifetime means that one has to have a diversity of knowledge, a diversity of experience, to be able to have different things like the technology of photography in space, and then to be able to come back to the planet and explore it using photography as well, but in a creative way to be able to share the kind of emotion that I feel when I see certain things. That's very important as part of the creative process, and you need that kind of thing in science too. No, absolutely. My weak attempt at a joke notwithstanding. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's early.

It's okay. As you see here, I have a huge jug of coffee here. So the jokes will get better as I proceed. Hopefully I will too. No, fantastic. Speaking of jokes, so I have a seven-year-old son who's very excited. I'm speaking to an astronaut right now and he has this book of jokes he got for Christmas and he gave me one last night. So I'm just going to share it with you really quickly here. Roberta, why did the people not like the restaurant on the moon? I don't know, because they wanted to order cheese and there wasn't any. See, that's a good guess.

I always think it's going to have something to do with cheese, but it was because there was no atmosphere is the punchline for that joke here. That's a rarefied joke. He'll be listening. And Lieve Fumke, who's a listener of the program, hello, Lieve Fumke, she says, does Roberta watch Letter Kenny

and does she know an entire cold open was all about her? You were discussing critical space stuff with your pals the other day. How would you batch in space? all about her. I'm mixing one every night or I'm not sleeping. Kind of like how I need to take a shower and me at least after I take some shits. You'd cone it. What? Each spaceman's given a cone to put over your junk for when you batch in space. Do you? So let's say you're in your space quarters.

You'd lay on your back in your bunk, put the cone over your junk, and fire one up. And since it's zero gravity, your batch would float up to the top put the cone over your junk, and fire one up. And since it's zero gravity, your batch would float up to the top of the cone and remain there. And what do you do with it? Each cadet's got a space disposal in their quarters, so you just throw it in there. Is that what they do? Most important thing is to obstruct the space cam in your quarters so that the rest of the space cadets don't see you matching. I'd imagine they'd give you a few cones. Probably stick one of those cones over the camera.

Exactly. How did you acquire this knowledge? You remember when I took Angie down to Disney? Yeah. I was having drinks at a bar by Cape Canaveral and heard some cadets talking. Space cadets? Fuck, piss me off, Derek. Isn't Cape Canaveral and heard some cadets talking. Space cadets? Fuck, piss me off, Derek. I think Cape Canaveral's a ways, a ways from Disney. It's not that far.

Okay. So you're having a drink in Cape Canaveral and you overhear some cadets talking about mixing a batch up in space? Did I stutter? Crazier things have happened, I guess. Was Bondar's there? Roberta? Yeah, Roberta's Bondar's.

Neuroscientist. Canada's first female astronauts. Fucking legend. Roberta's Bondar's. Yeah, Bondar was there. What about the other guy? What's his name? He just left, apparently. Wow, rubbing shoulders with North America's finest space cadets. Bondar Hammered?

No. No, I've seen her crush a few old fashions, but she's actually sitting in a quiet corner by herself. Wonder why the other guys left. I don't have that information, Dan. Can you imagine if North America's finest space cadets went up some outer space togethers? Oh, they did.

They did? Yeah. Houston wanted them to go up there together again, too. Bondar didn't want to. Why not? I don't think you wanna know. As sure as we do. Look, Houston, hear this from me, all right?

All right. Derry, all right? All right. Look, a lot of people don't know this, but those two weren't just North America's finest spacemen. They were actually planet Earth's finest space people. So, of course, Houston wanted them up there together as much as possible. But they only went up there together for one time?

Yeah. Because Bondar still wants to go up there with them again? Yeah. Okay. So, look, he was known as a bit of a guy's guy around Kennedy Center. You know, he played pranks and stuff, and'd just say, well, that's just him. Of course, Bondar was the more senior spaceman, had a bit of a reputation for, like, kicking it old school.

Can't see old fashions. She didn't have a lot of time for the whole boys-be-boys mentality. So they finally shoehorned him up there together, pulling full wells, oil and water. And I guess you could say he proved them right. Those space cadets really tell tales out of school, eh? Yep What happened next?

So, each spaceman's got a space cam in their quarters Which are connected to the other spaceman's quarters As well as the main shuttle bay and the saucer section The two smaller bays in the star drive section That be connected to the main bridge? Of course they are, Derry, fuck's sake So we're talking about an elite vessel here. NASA'd never send a ship up there

if it wasn't galaxy class. Well, you bet they wouldn't. Same with Elon Musk, but apparently Russia does it all the time. Fucking joke, Starfleet. So what happened next? So Bondar'd be up in Alpha Quadrant keeping the captain's log likely of the events.

Yeah. And they'd all just come out of a yeager loop. So she was a bit worn out. Yeah, she wouldn't be at full bars. But of course, there's Bondar, still up there in Alpha, keep an eye out for wormholes and whatnot. Yeah. I guess there he'd be down there in Beta Quadrant,

floating around in space quarters, which Bondar could see, so could Houston. I guess what he'd do is float off camera, pull his space pants down, grab his junk in a bunch in his hands. McDinkerball? For sake, Derry. This is hard enough to get through without you

stepping all over his story, Derry. Sorry, good buddy. So there he'd be, floating off camera. I guess what he'd do, Allegedly. According to the cadets, is dip just his junk back into frame. No.

Apparently he did it all the time. Where's Houston in all this? Houston thought it was hilarious. But Bondar didn't? Nope. Bondar did not. Jesus Christ. Well, I guess then what he'd do is he'd get on his comms.

Allegedly. Just telling you what the cadets told me. He'd go like, Shh. Hey, Bondar. Check out Space Cam 6. No. Yep.

Did she report him? Oh, she reported it. Did they slap sanctions on him? Yep. Yeah, he got jacked up. Good for Houston. Mm-hmm. And of course, they were still supposed to be up there another two months together.

Things only got worse. Oh. Remember what I was saying about the cone? Yep. I guess whenever it was Bondar's turn to clean Beta Quadrant, and things only got worse. Oh. Remember what I was saying about the cone? Yeah. I guess whenever it was Bondar's turn to clean Beta Quadrant, he would routinely batch and not cone it. Inexcusables!

Why didn't Bondar tell you? That's an understatement. I think she would, too. She never expected to be floating around some spaceman's quarters trying to catch airborne ejaculate in a plastic vacuum bag when she signed up for space camp. No, they only tell you about omega particles in space camp. Mm-hmm. Let's run on for two more months. Oh, no way, Dan.

Oh, you better believe Houston aborted the mission. Bondar had strict orders to Picard maneuver and warp 10 home. How many light years away were they? I was gonna ask, but then the cadets know I was eavesdropping, so... Well, that one happened. So they bring Bondar in for a top-secret meeting. Airtight boardroom. Pat down spawn entry.

No cell phones inside. And they said, well, what do you want to do here, Bondar? Well, let's him have it. Nope. Nope. Nope. You remember how I said she's old school? Yeah.

Bondar says to him, she says, I'm going to be down at the bar drinking old fashions. A guy's going to get what's coming to him. Fucking buzz yourself out of the boardroom. Didsy? Well, then. One of them's up in space doing space activities. The other one's at a bar by Disney drinking old fashions. That woman is a portrait of class.

She always has been. God bless his Roberta's Bondars. Now you can't be especially sure those were even real space cadets at the bar by Kennedy that day on account of being so close to Disney. Could have just been playing pretend or cosplaying,

like so many in that area like to do. But if they weren't over there spinning yarn, fucking Bondar for prime minister, right? Someone sent it to me, and I thought it was charming, especially the ending. It's like politics has never been sort of one of my pursuits in life, but I thought the whole thing was pretty good, eh? Speaking of politics,

Mark Garneau, of course, the first Canadian in space. You are the first, we mentioned you're the first neurologist in the world to go into space, but you're the first Canadian woman in space.

And that was almost 30 years ago. So I have a number of questions about that. But did you, you never did. This has never been something you considered like Mark Garneau. You never considered going into politics. No, I've never considered it. It's not something that I felt I wanted to do. I mean, let's put it

this way. When one's aligned to a political party and people are not, you don't have their attention in their ears. If one wants to talk about climate change, it gets very politicized. If one talks about COVID and vaccinations, it gets very politicized. As a physician, as a scientist, as a person who remains credible and apolitical in the eyes of the public, people know that I'm very keen on social justice, but you can have that through any political stripe. So I feel like I can have a different type of listener than someone who has put a flag in the ground about the politics. Right. And that makes complete sense to me. Okay. So again, I've got many questions about

many of those topics you brought up there from climate change to diversity. But I need to know the origin story. When in your life, Roberta, did you realize that you'd like to become an astronaut? When does that strike you? Well, I'm so old that there weren't astronauts, so there was no term coined. I was a spaceman. In fact, if you look at the old science fiction that I was reading back in the 50s, 1950s, by the way, in case this podcast lives was reading back in the 50s, 1950s by the way, in case this podcast lives forever, back in the 1950s, the idea of going to space was really to preserve

a lot of men, certainly as time wore on and Mercury 7 were training. I think that the early science fiction portrayed women. I remember one book was called The Golden Amazon's Triumph. And I remember thinking that women can do this. You know, you need something like a fiction book to be able to say that women can have a role. But I must say early on, it was the, I can't even remember if I was eight or nine or ten when I first made my first attempts putting plastic model rockets together because my grandparents and my parents really fed into my sister and me playing these space games. And I must say that it was totally enjoyable to be able to go in the north shore of Lake Superior and look up to the night sky and have all kinds of things to think about and questions to ask and then to go and get

books on it. Now you have online wonderful things, maps of the sky in real time. I mean it's fantastic stuff to turn kids on and even adults. So I can't answer your question about what the age was but it was certainly pre-teen. You mentioned it was a man's world, to borrow a line from James Brown. Like, who did you look to for inspiration that, yes, I can actually attain these dreams, these goals?

I would not use the term inspiration as much as encouragement, because although my parents were an inspiration in one sense about technical things and about sharing knowledge and pursuing a creative path, I would call the inspiration that there weren't women out there. So I didn't really think of myself as a woman. I didn't think of myself actually as a girl until people reminded me that you couldn't do this, you couldn't do that. Not my parents, not my family, but people in the neighborhood or people,

teachers at school. Our parents tended to encourage us to engage in the things for which we had a passion and interest. And if one can talk about that as being inspirational, then it was, but there was no figure for sure. When people went to the moon, I didn't even think of people as a gender thing. I just thought of human beings getting off the surface of the planet. Right. Now, again, at the top, I mentioned this in the intro, but it's been almost exactly 30 years. So it was January 22nd, 1992, when you became the first woman, the first female Canadian astronaut and the world's first neurologist in space. You, of course, flew aboard the American Space Shuttle Discovery. And that's a moment I'll never forget.

I did see some footage from a CBC news piece that ran that night while you were in space. And I could see you seeing that it was the Canadian press. Like, I suppose you saw a CBC logo or something. And you lit up and there was this sense of like, you were representing this entire country. It was really quite the awesome moment to see from 1992, and how proud you were that you were not just a woman, a doctor in space, but you were a proud Canadian going into space.

All through the night, while Roberta Bondar sleeps, crews check and fuel and recheck the shuttle. By dawn, it is clear it is a perfect day for launch. Bondar and the other six members of the crew suit up, and then they're off to the shuttle. Bondar spots the Canadian media. Bondar is the only woman on this crew. She is to be the second into the orbiter. But first she is fitted with the pressure suit, all 40 kilograms of it. Not far away, friends wait, friends and the scientists whose work she'll be doing. Howard Parsons is one. He saw her this morning. She was different this morning. She was very businesslike and wanted me to get on with it, it would appear to me.

And she gave me a big hug before she left. But then, close to launch, a glitch. A problem with a fuel cell, a threat of lightning. LRD. LRD is go. SRO. SRO is no go for fuel bills. For an hour, the astronauts lie on their backs waiting, Bondar making notes on her impressions.

And then... Three, two, one, zero, and liftoff. Liftoff of the space shuttle Discovery and the first international microgravity laboratory. This is the anxious time. Once the white booster rockets are fired, they cannot be turned off. Bondar's friends will not relax for the entire two minutes it takes the rockets to burn out and drop off. It's a very, very tense moment. My heart goes with her at that point, and I'm focused on those two solid rocket boosters

because I'm praying that nothing is going to go wrong. And there's an enormous relief after the two minutes when we see the separation. And we have separation. Discovery now flying free of the boosters and under the power of its own main propulsion system. And that's when they applaud. Wonderful. Just such a thrill. Within three and a half hours of launch, the work of the mission had begun.

The laboratory was activated, the experiments set up. Bonder and her backup, Ken Money, exchange greetings. Greetings. How are you doing? Over the next seven days, Bonder and her colleagues will investigate the nature of crystals, the embryology of fruit flies, the effect of space on humans. And they just may find time occasionally to kick up their heels. Eve Savory, CBC News at the Kennedy Space Center, Florida.

Really, that's all true. Also, I was the first Canadian after the Challenger accident, so it was the first time people saw someone going into a rocket ship that they knew could explode. First time they saw someone in an orange suit that had gone through all this bailout training. And the fact that it was a woman made people look at their mothers and their sisters and their daughters with a different point of view, I think. Right. I think all of that is very, very true. If you want to know the actual inside story about the big smile just going in and waving my hands up.

Yes, please. There's a CBC reporter named Eve Savory, and she was there. She was allowed there when we were getting into the transport van. We had the crew transport vehicle, which is like a silver Winnebago

van. And so we're all coming out with these orange suits on, like in the movie, The Right Stuff, you know, and we're all in the proper sequence of orders, so the commander's first, with no helmet on, but we had the ringer on the collar, and the orange suits, and plodding out, because these suits weighed 100 pounds, plodding out to the van, and there's Eve Savory, and she's got a big Canadian flag draped out, and I knew Eve from before, but in her hand at the corner she had a Girl Guide of Canada flag and so that little flag was there in the corner representing women and as it went out

there I just I mean to see someone I knew and to see the attachment of a community, a worldwide community, as well as the Canadian flag, it was, I mean, that was inspirational. That made me say, hey, you know, I can deal with the things that I've been dealing with. I can deal with whatever they throw at me because I know you people are behind me. And that made it all the difference in the world, just that two or three seconds. Wow. Wow. Wow. Now, you did bring up there the 1986 Challenger disaster.

In my sense, I was very into, of course, I was into the space shuttle as a young man, a young boy. But it almost felt, when I was growing up, like we were taking space shuttle missions for granted. Like it felt so regular and seemingly routine and then of course the 86 Challenger disaster which I still think about on the regular I was I was I think I was 11 years old and it was just I had nightmares about I was piloting a space shuttle and I could see it was going to crash I feel like you're my therapist now, Dr. Bondar, so I'll lie on the couch here. Throw it at me.

I'm naturally curious, being the first Canadian in space since that 1986 disaster. Did that shake your faith in the program? Did you still feel safe with NASA at that time? You raise a good point there as well. My father died very suddenly just before the Challenger accident. And there was just my sister and me, and my mom was the only child. And I really felt that I was thrusting them into emotional danger area

just because they were in the slipstream of me trying to pursue my dream, my vision, and trying to support me. It did take the wind out of my sails for sure. And there's that song, the wind beneath my wings. Well, when you're in space, there's no wind out of your wings. But the analogy is the wind wind the lift that people give you in your support system to allow to allow me anyway to cope with the the very real danger of spaceflight and after challenger i really needed to confront confront my own emotions but also those of my mother and my sister. And as the time went by, they just said, look, you know, what will be will be in a sense.

If it's something you want to do, then you need to do it. And it wasn't until probably about maybe three or four hours before I got up in the morning, I was doing a little audio tape for my mother that was going to be left with my will. Just in case they had a crew liaison that was appointed that they would liaison with my family should there be a problem any time during that space flight. And it was hard doing that tape. It was hard doing it,

not because I felt about death coming at me, but because of the emotional tearing that it'd be imposing on my family. That's the reality. And I think that's a reality that, you know, we spectators, if you will, we civilians don't appreciate fully. The absolute risk

that the space shuttle, it wasn't, you know, at that point, I mean, if we look back at 86, there was this sense like, oh, you know, anyone can do this. We're going to take a, you know, a teacher, we'll take a civilian and put her into space. That's how, you know, easy peasy this all is. And then you have that, you know, awful reminder that this is a risky endeavor. And you're risking your life for science here. And I think we slipped into that again now. You know, you see billionaires going off the planet. Technology certainly has improved.

People are willing to, they want to go and see what it's like some people just want to go up and play with their food but whatever the whatever the reasons more people are being able to access space but it hasn't changed the fact that it is dangerous that's why people watch it it's not just because William Shatner is William Shatner I mean in Star Trek yeah there's all this interesting he's finally getting to go into space. And William Shatner's going, they're going to say, what is the most important thing to you about this flight? And he said, coming back.

You know, I mean, some people take this stuff for granted. For normal people, I'm going to say, you can't take any of it for granted. In the old days, and it's still true today, there are three dangerous parts of spaceflight, the launch, the landing, and everything in between. Right, right. I was going to ask you about this. Let's do this now before we, you know, talk about, I want to talk about climate change with you because of a relationship I have with Dr. Diane Sachs. But let's talk about this space tourism because my friend Larry Fedorek calls it the billionaire baron's space race is what he calls it. And it does seem like every other day we're reading about another billionaire who's got some selling tickets to some private flight and going up into

space. And you broke a glass ceiling. You were the first Canadian woman in space and that was almost 30 years ago. And is space tourism, is it good for society? I think there are pros and cons of it. One, one can always argue that money spent on something should be spent on something else, even when it's not your own money. But you could also argue that the money comes from somewhere, so it comes from people

buying goods or services. And one in our society doesn't interfere with the way people spend their money. However, having said that, there certainly is a hue and cry over billionaires punching holes in the atmosphere and leaving maybe a trail of space junk behind or whatever it is that happens when you take a rocket and penetrate the atmosphere. So I think people have a right to be concerned, but you can't tell people how to spend their money by and large unless you've got some big law that that that happens you have to appeal to their moral integrity people down here on earth see all the stuff going on with covid know that vaccines would be great to have vaccines at least up to the third booster if not the fourth and the fifth or whatever it is we're going to need for

this horrendously novel virus that is really challenging science and medicine. But to be able to put that in everybody's hands or to deal with world peace, poverty, environmental issues. And so when one looks at those things, yes, one can argue and say, hey, these are really bad things. On the plus side, the technology that's developed does have its spinoffs to us on the Earth, providing it happens. So that things with reusable rockets,

if you look at SpaceX, they have quite diversified in their space portfolio. And although I don't particularly care for a Tesla flying around, because you can, you can do that, just add another piece of space junk up there. There's no question that supplies, ships to the ISS and perhaps stuff to the moon. Maybe people will benefit here on Earth, but that's a long-term thing. The short term is seeing people pop up on TV and get 25 seconds or 25 minutes, whatever they get into space, because they've got the

money and can build a rocket. So the jury's still out, even if there should be a jury. I mean, people can have opinions about it and can argue about it one way or the other, but it's never going to be something that's solved. Yeah, sure. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but there's only so many humans on this planet who have actually been to space. And I'm lucky enough to be talking with one right now. If one of these billionaires said, Roberta, here's a ticket, you want to join us? Would you consider that? Probably not. I think that if there was a time in my lifetime, which probably won't be, where I was able to go to the moon without, to be able to do something, to be able to have some kind of contribution, then I would consider it. But just

to go for a joyride is not something, I mean, I never really felt space station was where I wanted to head anyway. I mean, I just felt that people could use that energy and the money to actually establish bases on the moon years and years and years ago. So we all have our opinions, as you say. Right. And I'm curious for your opinion now. Or actually, I guess this would be more than your opinion, because, of course, you are a neurologist and you have been to space and from your vantage point, which begs the question, whereabouts do we find you today? Like whereabouts geographically in the world are you speaking with me from? Well, my, my home is Soundstudies in Toronto. Okay. And you don't have to be Uber specific, but what,

what neighborhood would we find? I don't, I'm not that Uber specific. That's too specific. Okay. So that okay. That's fine. That's fine. Now, um, I don't need any more people knocking at my door. Thank you. I didn't, yeah, I didn't need it. I just was curious. Like, are we a downtown? Are we midtown? Are we, uh, Tobacco? Are we Scarborough? I'm in town. How's that? Okay. I'll start knocking right after this, after the zoom. I'll find you. I'll find you. Uh, just to say thank you, of course, uh, uh from your vantage point you've been to space uh i know you're committed to protecting

our planet earth i'm just curious if you could speak way in perhaps on climate change and and how you're working to protect their our precious planet we have multiple challenges that i that i mean this is not a podcast all on climate change. So I will defer to Diane Sachs to talk about these kinds of specific issues. But generally speaking and aligning my personal interests in migratory birds is that when we look at areas such as Kenya, when they are ravaged by COVID and they can't get the vaccines. They also have drought. Climate change is severely affecting the pastoral life of the Maasai people. So they are now finding the drought is challenging them to have their animals, which, of course, that's what their buckaroos are. It's the number of cows they have. To have them properly hydrated.

There are a lot of wildlife preserves in Kenya, in the mountain range of Mount Kenya, where people who have a lot of money, speaking of money, have partitioned off thousands of square kilometers of natural habitat for animals and birds. And now these pastoralists want that land back because they feel that that has the river, that has the water, and why shouldn't they have it?

And there's Kenya. So I don't know. There's a lot of unrest that's stimulated by poverty, by education issues, by the changing climate that people are not able to adapt to because it's not long-term. It's like here in your face. Now, we both now mentioned Diane Sachs

and just to shout, I know you have a podcast. I'll quickly just shout out that Diane Sachs has a great podcast called Green Economy Heroes and she speaks with a Canadian person, I'll quickly just shout out that Diane Sachs has a great podcast called Green Economy Heroes. And she speaks with a Canadian who's got a green business and is actually making money at that business. And it's really inspiring.

So I just want to shout out that podcast. It's been an honor to produce that. And since I'm talking about Diane Sachs' podcast, Green Economy Heroes, I would just like to let everybody know that Roberta Bondar has a podcast. So can you take a moment to tell us about sharing space with Dr. Roberta Bondar? Catchy title. I love it. Well, right now it's like a mini podcast series. I don't know if I'm going to continue it. It was something that I agreed to do to celebrate the 30th anniversary

and draw people's attention more to the Roberta Bonder Foundation, which is a not-for-profit environment education organization that bears my name. And I agreed to do podcasts with, I grabbed six people, well, five people that I knew and one that I had never met to talk about, just to have a conversation with them because people are quite, sometimes quite curious about not only me and what I would say if I was in conversation with somebody in a room and they were a fly on the wall, but these other people.

So that's basically how it started. And so I have six podcasts. There is a seventh one in the beginning, but that's because I interviewed myself. Well, let me name check some of these. These are some amazing guests you have. And I'm curious which of these six people you hadn't met. I almost want to play a guessing game here. Okay, play a guessing game.

I am certain you have met Anne Murray. Definitely, played golf. And I hear she's a heck of a golfer and I love Anne Murray. So that's great. Susan Aglou-Clark, I'm going to say you've met Susan before. Absolutely.

I've lectured in her classes. She participated in some projects that I had running. Yep. And I'm hoping, I grew up on Sesame Street. Sesame Street raised me for a short period of time. And at that time, Buffy St. Marie was a regular.

And I consider her like my other mother, Buffy St. Marie. She's a big deal to me. I'm sure you've met Buffy many times. No. Oh my goodness, that's the one. That's the one. Wow. It was extraordinary.

It was like I had known her. It was just a huge honor to be able to do it. We just went on for an hour and finally we had to shut it down. She's charming. Just a charming individual. Not that any of the other guests aren't. I didn't know this woman except for her singing. You know, I know she lives in Hawaii,

so maybe there was a geographic reason it was tough to bump into her, but she's living the good life in Hawaii. But that's awesome. So again, people should, you know, after you've subscribed to Toronto Mic'd and you've subscribed to Green Economy Hero, you definitely need to subscribe

to Dr. Roberta Bondar's new podcast. And I'm going to, at the very end, we're going to talk about, you definitely need to subscribe to Dr. Roberta Bondar's new podcast. And I'm going to, at the very end, we're going to talk about, you know, an event, a virtual event you're hosting to celebrate this 30th anniversary. Because again, some of the people we've mentioned will be, you know, I didn't mention Hayley Wickenheiser, but you know, there's an inspiring story. She's the podcast, they're all on alternate Wednesdays of the month, and she's on the Wednesday right before the new year, between Christmas and the new year.

Now, we're all grappling with the Omicron variant of COVID-19, and I've got my booster in me. And if they say, Mike, every six months you need a booster, I'll be like, okay, roll up my sleeve. The science is awesome. This is keeping me safe. I love it. But I'm curious then for you as both an astronaut and a neurologist,

who, by the way, who loves art and nature and good health, I'm just wondering how you're doing in the time of COVID. Well, I'm up to date with my boosters. I did a, Haley asked me a while back if I would do something for a campaign she was involved in called This Is Your Shot. So I did a, I did a video. It's had over 200, last count,

it was 257,000 visits to that, to the, I think it was one and a half minutes, almost two minute little video that I recorded in my studio. So I just, I feel that education is really important and it's very important to understand why people aren't vaccinated and to try to get some place where you can actually take individuals and emotionally or whatever and have them go get a vaccine. Like I always say, you wouldn't want polio. You wouldn't want the sequela of measles, mumps.

Those are things that have devastating neurologic issues. And so we can be smart today and get vaccines, especially with the new technologies. So I'm not going to get onto my little soapbox here, but certainly COVID is one thing that I've been trying very hard to make people aware that there are things that we can do to mitigate it, whether it's social distancing, washing one's hands, wearing a mask and certainly getting vaccinated. But are you surprised at, and I don't want to make it sound like this is a, you know, half of us,

I'm sure there's probably 10% of us in this country approximately, but are you surprised that so many Canadians have such anti-science sentiments, that they have such distrust for science? Like, does this alarm you as a scientist ground control to major tom ground control to major tom take your protein pills and put your helmet on Ground control to Major Tom

Commencing countdown, engines on Three, two, check ignition And may God's love be with you This is ground control to Major Tom. You've really made the grade. And the papers want to know whose shirt you wear. Now it's time to leave the capsule if you dare. This is Major Tom to ground control.

I'm stepping through the door. And I'm floating in the most peculiar way. And the stars look very different today For here am I sitting in a tin can Far above the world Planet Earth is blue and there's nothing I can do Finally, an astronaut on Toronto Mic'd.

Mission accomplished. I want to thank some of the tremendous sponsors that make this possible and help fuel the real talk. Great Lakes Beer. That's delicious, fresh craft beer brewed locally. Fiercely independent. Support Great Lakes Beer. And of course, Palma Pasta, another family-run local business.

And that's the most delicious Italian food you're going to find this side of Italy. I spent some time with Brad Jones from Ridley Funeral Home yesterday and I want to thank Ridley Funeral Home for their tremendous support. They're pillars of this community as are StickerU. StickerU.com is where I go for my stickers stickers my decals and they've been amazing partners throughout 2021 and I'm excited that they'll be around for 2022 and of course the yes we are open podcast which is hosted by FOTM Al Grego who himself is a huge fan of Letterkenny Al travels the country interviewing small Canadian businesses and then he tells the story of their origin,

their struggles, their future outlook. And if you're a small business owner or entrepreneur like myself, you'll find that podcast both helpful and motivational. Subscribe at yesweareopenpodcast.com. Thank you for listening. Here's more of my conversation with Dr.

Roberta Bondar. guitar solo It does. Again, I think messaging is very, very important. Unfortunately, when people have expectations in one direction and they're not met, then that's when people start doubting or certainly becoming very sanguine about the information that's provided. The messenger is extremely important. And so I think that certainly science is not the be-all and end-all.

We expect to have something black and white. But a lot of science, as I said before, is about a creative way to solve a problem. And science is quite often about revision, revising theory. I mean, otherwise we'd be entrenched in the Middle Ages in what they called science then. And we're not. We make science alive and we make it evolve. And people, if people don't understand things because they can't see it,

like they don't have a microscope, they don't have an electron microscope to see a virus, and they refuse to believe something they can't see, then one has to deal with that in an educational way. So all of these things, I think the thing that shocked me most is the bad human behavior. It's one thing to say, I'm not going to get vaccinated and not care about one's community.

Right. But it's quite another to try to intimidate the president of the Ontario Medical Association by tweets and have Twitter not take them down that you responsibly should. or to have people sending threatening notes or going up to a school board office in a school and going on about masks. I mean, this is bad human behavior. And I think that has surprised me more than anything. And it's disappointing. Oh, yeah. I'm going to guess that was always there. We just see it now because of social media, yeah. I'm going to guess that was always there. We just see it now because of social media, etc. Now we have this 24-hour news cycle and everybody's on Twitter, etc., that we're sort of able to see it in real time as opposed to back in the day when you might be out of sight, out of mind, but this sentiment has always existed? I think so. And the other aspect, of course, is there have been certain people who have now made it okay for those individuals to come out and not try to

temper themselves or to try to see a different view. They have permission now to go out and do all these things with social media, or they have permission to go and congregate and threaten someone whose views they don't agree with. So all of that is a disappointing side to human beings. But on the flip side is the goodness of individuals that I've seen, certainly on social media, that are making a difference. And we have people like yourself and Hayley Wickenheiser. And I want to share, Michael Serapio, I hope I pronounced his last name correctly. David Saint-Jacques. So these are the fine people we'll find on your podcast. But you also have a virtual event.

It's for the Roberta Bondar Foundation, I think is the host. And you and a number of those people actually are going to join you. Can you tell us two things I want to know before I ask you the final question, which is from my youngest son, actually. Tell us, you know, how can we get tickets and, you know, enjoy this 30th anniversary virtual evening with you and your friends uh you know you i'm curious about that and then please tell me like how can i see your nature photography how would one go and take a look at your nature photography okay so we got part a part b and part c right and like i'm over 70 so you may have to repeat that uh but let's just start the 30th anniversary is is a great thing i think to celebrate and the foundation wanted to do something.

So that's what the podcast have led up to, and certainly on the website, which is theRBF.org. So you have to put the T-H-E-R-B-F.org in. And there's a thing right on the top that says, get your tickets. And on this particular event, there's going to be music. There's going to be people speaking, obviously congratulatory messages. And there's going to be the ability for people to go into galleries to see the photographs, as you mentioned. It's a very professionally done program.

We've had a lot of great volunteers working on this for hours and hours and hours over the last year and also pro bono distribution of of information about it so it's a great it's going to be a great event so people can can buy a ticket online and and see this thing on the 22nd and i'll be live and the host for that event is going to be Mark Tewksbury. Nice. That's going to be, yeah, because he won his gold medal the year I flew in space because I came to Barcelona that year to cheer everybody on. So that's a great connection.

Love it. Let's see. So that's sort of how you see my photographs. That's one way. And the other is to go to the website, website again that or my robertabonder.com that's the my professional website and one can see these images i'm represented by a gallery in yorkville in toronto there's offices in calgary and winnipeg as well okay well awesome now uh i track every it's gonna sound underwhelming compared to what i'm gonna speak to that you do but i i

track every bike ride so i like to bike daily and I track every kilometer. And then I have these goals I want to hit and I track it all. And it's all like an exciting thing I do to kind of gamify the whole thing. And I was looking at your stats. Like if you had like a baseball card for Dr. Roberta Bondart,

you circled the earth 129 times and you covered 3.3 million miles. Those are some, I mean, you know, I'm just a layperson, but those are some impressive stats. Oh, yeah. I mean, people in space station are up there much longer now, but this was the first international, true international flight. They were trying things out for the space station.

It was a precursor to the space station. We had two 12-hour shifts on that flight. We were to be there for two weeks, and then there were trouble with the rocket ships that they put us on, finally put us on Discovery after going through Atlantis and Columbia, and they were not technically ready to go. So yes, it was an international flight, and the stats are different than they are for people now. Sure. And certainly in those days, they weren't letting women fly more than once, apparently, when you were a Canadian. Your own agency didn't particularly have that as one of their goals.

So, yeah, stats do change, and it's a good thing. It's a good thing we have progress. and it's a good thing. It's a good thing we have progress. And you mentioned international flavor here, but 40 experiments on behalf of scientists from 14 different countries. And this is the precursor to the International Space Station, right?

This is NASA's first international microgravity lab. Absolutely. It was the first time they had an international coup. One of my coup mates was from the European Space Agency, and it was myself and Canada, and the rest were all Americans. They were all men except for me. And so we trained in all these different countries, and it was very interesting to speak to the scientists,

not only in English, but in French also, to be able to understand how they viewed science differently, how they came up with it. I mean, the science is done. You look at technology of cars, for example. There's a huge difference. There certainly used to be a much greater spread between the engineering of a European car or a Japanese car

and one that was home in the United States, whether Canada's involved in parts. That's a moot point here. But the idea is that North American cars are different than European cars. And it's the same with the science. They come out to the same, get the same question out there

and hopefully to the same answer, but the process of doing it is different. The technology is different. So that was really, really wonderful to be immersed in and to learn because it opened my mind to different ways of looking at science. And that's an incredible thing. It's a gift to anybody who's studying science to be able to do some of their training offshore

or certainly out of the institution where they did their first degree. offshore or certainly out of the institution where they did their first degree. And you've been a huge advocate for diversity in science, technology, engineering and mathematics. Without it, we're kind of black. It's like one way of thinking. If people were like that, I don't think they could have got to the point they're at now with vaccinating people with COVID. It takes an international effort to solve these big problems. And it takes different people, not just around a board table, as directors running, trying to keep your eye on the

governance of an organization. But it takes people who are actually doing, building things or taking things apart to understand how they work in the natural world to be able to come up with solutions. And so these big questions that people are asked require big brains and they require a brain that to me is composed of all kinds of individuals with all kinds of backgrounds and diversified thinking. It is too easy to look at everything through one lens. And that's why I love using different types of cameras. I mean, when I did my project across Canada photographing the national parks,

I had like four different cameras. I had ones with bellows. I had Hasselblad. I had Nikon. I had like four different cameras. I had ones with bellows. I had Hasselblad. I had Nikon. I had Lindhoff. I mean, I had different things because they do different things. And that to me is what diversity of education and diversity of life experience is all about. It's to enable us to be more creative and to be more fulfilled. And I'll get off my little soapbox now. I love it.

I love it. be more fulfilled and I'll get off my little soapbox now. I love it. I love it. If I had my way, I'd hold you captive for another 90 minutes here. So my last question, I'm leaving it to my youngest son because he talks about this quite a bit.

Now that I finally have an astronaut, I can ask how I should appropriately answer this question. My son wants to know if there are aliens amongst us. What say you, Roberta? You'll never know. You think I'm going to tell? Well, it's a good question. I mean, when I was in space, my crew members, as I mentioned, were all men. They didn't look anything like they did on the ground.

I mean, you first get up there, the fluids float up. And so you have a puffy face, these skinny legs, these bird legs. And they're floating around. And sometimes you see them upside down or they're at an angle. And they sometimes are totally unrecognizable. I mean, talk about looking alien. These are the creatures of space, really. But whether or not there's something from another planet,

we do know that we get bits and pieces of things that come in on meteors. We're just beginning to start looking for different types of things on Mars. We're getting smarter and smarter robotic systems on there. We're trying to make connections with our planet. Mars is the fourth planet. We're the third planet. And we're looking at Venus, the second planet. Mercury is a bit hot, but we're trying to find things on moons of Jupiter, like Europa,

Callisto. We're looking at ones that might have water because we're trying to see if there is life out there. We're trying to see whether or not it is possible that something is down here that is an alien among us. To this time, doing DNA analysis, I don't think anybody has picked one that is strange. I want to believe. That what, there are aliens among us? Yeah, shout out to Fox M molder uh what an absolute thrill this was for me again happy 30th anniversary to you and thanks for taking some time to uh chat

with the fotms here on toronto mic'd well thank you to you and to your listeners and i hope some of them will join us on the 30th anniversary on the 22nd, because it really will be a well-done presentation. And that brings us to the end of our 975th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Dr. Roberta Bondar is at Roberta Bondar. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. Chef Drop is at Get Chef Drop.

Moneris is at Moneris. McKay CEO Forums are at McKay CEO Forums. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. And Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH. See you all next week. And drink some goodness from a tin Cause my UI check has just come in

Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the snow wants snow warms me today And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine And it won't go away, cause everything is rosy and green Well, you've been under my skin for more than eight years It's been eight years for more than eight years.

It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears. And I don't know what the future can hold or will do for me and you. But I'm a much better man for having known you. Oh, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Wants me today And your smile is fine

And it's just like mine And it won't go away Because everything is rolling in gray well I've been told that there's a sucker born every day but I wonder who yeah I

wonder who maybe the one who's asked to realize there's a thousand shades of gray. Cause I know that's true, yes I do. I know it's true, yeah. I know it's true. How about you?

Are they picking up trash and they're putting down ropes? And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn because Everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine

And it won't go away Because everything is rosy and gray Well, I've kissed you in France, and I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour

But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms us today

And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy and Everything is rosy and gray Thank you.