Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ed Keenan KOTJ: Toronto Mike'd #287

Episode Date: November 28, 2017

Mike and Ed discuss yesterday's Postmedia and Torstar newspaper closures and the demise of the alt-weeklies before they play and discuss his ten favourite songs.

And right now, right now, right now it's time to... Take out the jams, motherfuckers! I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love. I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love. I'm a Toronto Mike, you wanna get the city love. My city love me back, but my city love me back. Welcome to episode 287 of Toronto Miked, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent brewery celebrating 30 years in the craft beer business. Visit GLB at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard for $5 beers. And propertyinthesix.com. Toronto real estate done right. And PayTM. An app designed to manage all of your

bills in one spot. Download the app today from paytm.ca I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week to kick out the jams is the

Toronto Stars, Ed Keenan. Hello. Welcome back, Ed. I'm so happy to be back here in the luxurious Toronto Mike studio. And thank you for saying that. I was admiring, there's an autographed picture of Ty Domi in the washroom. That's right. Which makes me feel just right at home.

They've got one at the Jumbo Burger near my house. And me and my kids admire that quite a bit. Shout out to my buddy Joe, who lived at like, where St. John's butts up against Dundas. Right. We went to that Jumbo Burger that you're referring to, which is Dundas and Runnymede. Yeah. All the time. That's been there forever.

We used to go there all the time in the 80s. It's so good because it's open late. It's a classic sort of Greek Brothers run Toronto greasy spoon grill place where you can get all day breakfast with French fries instead of potatoes. But also the burgers there are really good. But the onion rings are

it's like a destination place for onion rings. I hope this never happens, but should there come a day where they have to shut the doors, maybe they can't afford the rent, I don't know. Let's say there's a day they close down Jumbo Burgers. Will you write something beautiful? I would try to

memorialize Jumbo Burger because it is in my mind, at least, Burger because it is, in my mind at least, if nobody else is, in my mind an institution, a neighborhood institution in the Junction for sure. And tonight is that, what's that thing called? The holiday train?

What do they call the train? Oh, is that tonight? Yeah. Because I had George Ballerina tonight. Yeah. So it's almost right next door to where this is all going down. But I guess Runnymede

and Dundas is where I heard Colin James is performing. We've gone a couple times to see the holiday train. It's near the Walmart there. Right, yes. It's like when you go to a small town and they're like, turn left at the Canadian Tire. Well, they would never say that.

They would say turn left at the crappy tire. But the holiday train comes in behind the Walmart, and they open up the fences. Although we usually park in the Walmart parking lot and climb through a hole in the fence. But yeah, CP or CN, the train company, runs this train that's all brightly decorated,

and then they open up the side of this box car, and there's a band in there and they play and santa claus comes out and yeah everybody has a good time yeah my pro tip for anyone listening because it is i think it's like seven o'clock or something but it it is awesome uh my pro tip is don't drive there like my pro tip is drive if you're gonna drive there park somewhere far away and walk toward the don't if you try to get drive and park too close to the train you're gonna be in for a yeah because especially once it's over like you can actually Walk toward the... If you try to get drive and park too close to the train, you're going to be in for a tough night.

Yeah, especially once it's over. You can actually get in there and often find parking because it's a giant parking lot for the department store, the famous department store, but also there's a giant parking lot attached to it that serves a Dollarama and whatever else, right? That's right. But leaving, it's like if you park in the parking lot directly across from the ACC.

Right. After the game, you're stuck in there for like an hour or two. Here's my bonus pro tip on this. Since I'm actually going to be parked at the George Bell Arena, which is like riding. I used to say where the big... Yeah, it's a block away. I always used to say, forever, I would say, where the giant rocking chair is, okay?

But that rocking chair is long gone, and it became a goodwill, which is gone now. I don't know what it is now. It's nothing right now. It's going to be a homeless shelter. So yeah, so the street of the homeless, the future homeless shelter, park at George Bell. There's lots of free parking there,

and walk along Riding Avenue. You turn. There's only one way you can turn. You come under the bridge if you're coming from the south. You approach the bridge if you're coming from the north. When you pass Jumbo Burgers, you go under the bridge. And you turn onto the street where the blue and green building across from Walmart is. Look at how localized we are with this.

This junction stuff. But yeah, take your kids to the train. By the way, I saw your kids because the last time you were here, this is your third visit. After the same day as your last visit, I took my teenagers to Harvey's in the stockyard. Right. And you were there.

Remember that? Yeah. It was the same day. Very same day. And I haven't seen you since. Yeah, because it's not like we bump into each other on the street all the time. No. It was just that one day.

I had come from your house, picked up my kids who had just come home from school and uh and then we're like well what are we gonna do for dinner i guess we'll go to harvey's and there you were and that was my daughter had a soccer match at runnymede park which is right there by the george bell arena so it all comes together full circle but yeah so i saw you and your kids and you saw me my teenagers that was after your last visit. So I want to tell people, if they want to go back into the archives and listen to more Ed Keenan,

you might know him better as Edward Keenan. Edward Keenan. As it says in your... That's my byline. Byline. In the Toronto Star. Right. And your mom calls you Eddie.

And the name that I got from my father. I'm actually Edward Francis Keenan V. My father, his uncle, and then his father, and then his father before him. So, you know, it's a proud name, but people call me Eddie. And yeah, as you say, my mother calls me Eddie. You could shorten that to just Edward Irish. You know what I mean?

Francis Keenan. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the roots are not hidden there. I have a daughter named Irene, speaking of Irene. Good night, Irene. In this 143rd episode, Mike chats with Toronto Star columnist Edward Keenan about his years writing for iWeekly, The Grid, and The Toronto Star.

But we also make time to talk Rob Ford, The Stockyards. So this is not the first time. Right. No, no. The junction comes up a lot. His News Talk 1010 radio show, At Norm on Twitter and more. So that's the first one, 143. Do you still have a News Talk 1010 radio show? I don't. Because you're still on that station.

I don't. I still do regular appearances, including every Thursday morning, I guess, at 745. At least somebody tweeted at me yesterday that they love hearing your voice on 1010. Oh, well, I'm glad to hear it. There was no bitter fallout when I stopped doing the Sunday night show. Two things happened at once, and one was that they wanted to try and experiment with Dave Eddy, where he was on, I think, six nights a week. Yeah, I remember this. From 10 till 2 in the morning or something like that.

And my show was at 10 o'clock on Sunday nights. And at the same time, so then, you know, Mike Bendix and the program manager there had offered me some other time slots, and I'm now coaching three hockey teams. Well, you know, Mike Bendix and the program manager there had offered me some other time slots. And I'm now coaching three hockey teams. Well, you're doing all three. And during the summer, I also coach two baseball teams, including a sort of a girls rep team that tours around to tournaments. And I'm away for a lot of weekends. So it was sort of there wasn't a convenient time for me. And so I'm still very friendly with the station. I'm there all the time.

They made a mistake when they decided the Dave Eddy show. It should have been the Dave Eddy at Eddie Keenan. We could have had a couple Eddys. Right. Come on. Ben Dixon, put on your creative hat there. We had such a good idea there. So that's the first time.

One, four, three. And that's when I met you for the first time. And we built a quick rapport and talked Stockyards, which made me like you more. If you want a Stockyards update, I know you're trying to move through here, but Nations Foods has finally opened there. The Stockyards is like this weird big box mall that's designed for everybody to come and park there

like they do at a regular mall, but then you're supposed to walk around as if you're in a downtown, but you have to walk around all these parking lots, right? Instead of an indoor mall where you walk around indoors. But it was built with a giant space for

Target to be the anchor location. The only purpose built is that how you say it? Purposely built Target store in the city. The one they didn't inherit from Zellers. That's right. And then, of course, we all know what happened with Target. And it's been vacant since then.

But shortly after Target closed, they announced Nations Fine Foods is gonna be opening there soon. And it's been like a couple years. And finally Nations has opened. And it is an amazing grocery store. And I'm has opened and it is an

amazing grocery store. And I'm not a guy who's all that impressed by grocery stores. I don't actually love grocery shopping. I get kind of anxious when I'm under the fluorescent lights. But it's sort of like my friend Kalpna Patel pointed out that they have

seven different kinds of yams. And I didn't even know there were seven different kinds of yams. Like every strange-looking Chinese vegetable. My neighbors, who are Filipino, but actually go there because they have all the Indian spices and teas and things. Their seafood section is incredible. They also have an indoor playground and an arcade.

So I was just blown away. I walked in there, and it's like, holy cow! But don't, okay, you're a better man than I am. I suffer from the paradox of choice. Like, I suffer, when I see, like, I've got to get toothpaste, and there's, like, seven different varieties of Crest or whatever. You know what I mean? Yeah, like, do I want, like, the minty fresh?

Like, you know, seven types of yams, that makes me want to go to No Frills. You know what I mean? Because you need to find somebody and ask, what's the kind that my recipe is calling for? I just think, I can see that.

The standard yam. Some people will love having seven types of yams. To me, it makes me a little anxious. I bike over to my local No Frills and they only have one kind of yam there and I like that.

And you like having the yam pre-chosen for you. But this is awesome. It's a curated experience at the No Frills You're Saying where the experts there choose the finest, only the finest yam. Was it you or maybe it was Siobhan Morris, somebody I was talking

to on the show. We talked about how many grocery stores have emerged in this part of the Junction or whatever. Was that you? Yeah, no, it was Siobhan Morris, I think, because she lives up in my neck of the woods. But yeah, we've got Organic Garage that opened at Junction Road and Keele right behind the LA Fitness there.

And then also the Sweet Potato Organic Grocery Store is opened and Nations is open. So it's, yeah, we're this embarrassment of riches when it comes to that. And you still got the No Frills onills on pacific yeah right by saint cecilia's and then there's the metro that's uh over near george bell there on um yes it's not even called riding there it's you take new toronto street then you go on to a different named street for one block and then you wind up on riding it's that different named street that i always forget. I sometimes see people with placards and like protesting

save the animals or something. There's some kind of a packing plant there, Maple Leaf or something. I once saw them liberate a chicken. They were protesting there and I started taking pictures and you know I'm a journalist and I had time to kill so I was tweeting some photos of the protest and

the compromise that was reached was that they saved one chicken. Like they got to... Every chicken counts. One of the chickens. Because yeah, that's historically, and up on Guns Road there, where this beautiful new,

the old incinerator, which was called the destructor, the Guns Road destructor, or Sims Road destructor, has been renovated by a brewery. But up there, it used to be nothing but stockyards. And my neighbors who have been living in that neighborhood for 40 years or something, they say, you know, when they bought the house, like you couldn't open your windows because the stench was so strong. Oh my gosh, that's St stretch on st claire i remember as a kid yeah the windows were down you you rolled them up quickly because

it stunk like that stretched in st claire there it stunk like yeah it's just the worst odor imagine living there holy smokes but uh so that's okay your first appearance is 143 but you came back for episode 183 and we, I think I described it as Mike chats with Toronto Star journalist Edward Keenan about what's making waves in Toronto this summer. So we just did like, I made you work like for free. Maybe you work for beer actually.

Actually your wife got the beer, right? Yeah, my wife gets the beer and she's actually very, very happy. I remember now your wife had a favorite type of beer and I delivered it to her from Great Lakes Brewery. It was Pompous Ass. That's right. So, if you look,

we'll do this now, actually, since I brought a beer. That six-pack, usually I give a variety pack, but when I knew Kenan was coming over, I thought about your wife. And remind us, your wife's name is? Rebecca. Rebecca. She's going to get six Pompous Ass. Seven, actually, because you're going home too. Oh, you stole

my joke. I guess it's too easy. But yeah, she does like a pompous ass, which is why she married one. The host gets the good jokes. You know how it works. Okay. Okay. By the way, I got an email. You're going to kick out the jams in just a moment, but I got an email earlier today from Stephen B.

And he says, i'm going to read it in its entirety four kick out the jams in a row come on man now you're just mocking us lol so there's a seems to be some people who uh like a lot of people love the deep dives like you had in episode 143 and 183 uh some people also love the jam kicking, but there are a certain small vocal minority that has emerged who want more deep dives, less jam kicking. They don't like... It's because they love jams so much

that they can't appreciate... They can't advocate... They don't want them kicked, right? Right, yes. You just keep kicking these jams. It's like, they're poor jams. They're protesting outside right now. What did they ever do to you?

Right. If they can save one jam, it'll all be worthwhile. But I'm looking forward to you kicking out the jams. I love it. And that's what I want to say to everybody. The next six episodes are deep dive, okay? So, yes, there's been four in a row where we kicked out the jams. But we talk before we jam kick.

I'm going to ask you about a couple of things. We're going to have some real talk. Then we're going to kick out the jams. But. We're going to have some real talk, then we're going to kick out the jams. But listening to the Kick Out the Jams episode, too, it's great to listen to music

and it's interesting to look at the lists, but beyond that, it's a great interview technique because you get people talking about times in their lives, why this song

is meaningful to them, and you get this whole sense of their worldview. So I'm a big fan of kicking out the jams. Me too.'m so so happy that you invited me to participate i often i've tweeted this on several occasions uh you learn more about a person by kicking out the jams than you do with the deep dive because with the deep dive you know you're kind of being interviewed and you could put up like your mask or your guard but once you tell me why you love your favorite

songs you become more more honest and vulnerable. Like I learned, whether it be Damien Cox or David Schultz, like these guys, when they're talking about their jams, it's a whole different side of them that you don't necessarily hear from. And it seems like a lot of people and a lot of the people you talk to are either broadcasters or journalists or otherwise involved in the business where people are routinely being interviewed too. And there's this sense where you come in and you're always kind of prepared to talk about your area of expertise. When we talked the first time, we talked about Rob Ford. And then we talked about the business. It's like office talk. But that's the professional side of us that people who are familiar with us will already be familiar with. But you get people talking about their favorite songs and suddenly they're talking about their lives, right?

They're talking about their childhood, their teenagerhood. And so if what you want is to interview Damien Cox about hockey, you're probably better off just talking to him about hockey. But if what you want to talk about is Damien Cox, then, man. Kick out the jams. That's right. Did you watch the Grey Cup? I did.

What a game. Yeah, it was a great game, eh? Holy smokes. I can't claim to be a big Argos fan. There have been a few seasons, you know, far in the past now, where I watched them a little closer, but I almost always watched the Grey Cup, and I did for sure this year,

and I was rooting hard for the Argos, and then what a game. That's just, and what a finish. Okay, so I mean, yeah, you're right. First of all, it looked great because it had the snow coming down and it was, you know, you kind of felt like we had a chance, but I honestly, like if I had a dollar

it was going on Calgary because it looked like they were in control and that fumble and, you know, they had to review it because you know, did his knee go down before the ball was released? Yeah, a matter of an inch or two. So close. But that guy, I can't remember the gentleman's name,

which he might be happy to hear that, but trying to get that extra yard at that point in the game when you're in control. And then he tries to get the extra yard and he fumbles. And then running it all the way back and the two-point conversion to tie it up. So on the Calgary side, they were dominant for three quarters or more of that game. And yet that fumble, pivotal. But also, why are you throwing into the end zone rather than kicking a field goal on the last three plays of the game?

To me, that's the guy, like, I'm going to be a hero today. You can tie the game with a field goal. You send it into overtime. You've been dominant. You're'm going to be a hero today. You can tie the game with a field goal. You send it into overtime. You've been dominant. You're probably going to win overtime. Or you can just throw up this 50-50 pass into the end zone. So many things. The Argos,

so many things, stupid decisions like the fumble, going for the extra yard instead of protecting the ball and running that back. So then you do the two-point conversion. You're tied up. You're right. The Argos end up the defense does their job and then they end up kicking a field back. So then you do the two-point conversion. You're tied up. You're right. The Argos end up the defense does their job, and then they end up kicking a field goal. So Argos are up by three, and you're right. There's a chance for Calgary

to kick a field goal at the end of the game to tie it. And Levi, Bo Levi, I hope, Bo Levi Mitchell, is this the three names, right? I think he just had this moment of like, F it, I'm going to be a hero. And he went for the win. Well, him and or his coach together, right?

Because, I mean, the head coach is not sitting on the sidelines letting the quarterback make those decisions on his own. But I think Mitchell did say after the game, if I'm not mistaken, I think I read that he had said, you know, like, I just wanted to end the game. I didn't want what happened last year to happen. And lo and behold, it happened again. But what I will say, as a born-again, just-on-Sunday Argos fan,

which makes me an authority, is that Calgary dominated that game, but in a game where there was a 100-yard record-setting pass-completion touchdown, there's a 108-yard record-setting pass-completion touchdown. There's a 108-yard record-setting fumble return. Right. And a touchdown interception in the end zone in the dying seconds of the game. The team that did all those three things is the team that won the game. Right. So the Stampeders won the main time, but the Argos won the highlight reel.

You know, it's funny you mention that. Like on Born Again, I wonder how the diehards feel about guys like you and I. So I was at the Eastern Conference final, and so I was really into that. That's two Sundays ago when the Argos won the East

against Saskatchewan because, you know, Saskatchewan plays in the East all of a sudden. What's going on here? That's crazy talk. All right, that's CFL talk. But so I basically, you're right,

I watched very closely and enthusiastically two Argo. I watched three in total, but I was distracted at the first game. So I really passionately, closely watched two football games this season. I wonder how the diehards feel. Like this guy, he gets to have the excitement that we had to like watch preseason games

and all these dog games in August. I dealt with this a little bit last year. I wrote a column about it. But my brother-in-law comes from England, and he's a football coach by profession, a soccer coach by profession. And as soon as he moved to Toronto, he got season tickets to Toronto FC. He's been a supporter of this team virtually all along. And he and my sister go down routinely.

They watch all the games. They know what they're talking about. And last year when Toronto FC was making his drive, I became an Insta fan. Because if there's, like I don't even need a bandwagon, right? If there's a skateboard with somebody in a kazoo on it, I will hop on. I will hop on any bandwagon that's going in this city. Why not? But I think the art of being a bandwagon hopper is, first of all, sharing in the reflected enjoyment of the diehard fans.

The fact that they're being rewarded is part of what makes it so meaningful to me. And I'm kind of cheering them on while I'm cheering the team on. I want it for them as much as for anything. And then the other thing is that despite my insightful analysis of the Grey Cup I just watched, it's like when you're talking to

what I think really annoys a diehard is when some Johnny-come-lately starts explaining to them the intricacies of the team. Like, well, you got to understand, right? Is that a lot of these guys were cut from other teams in the middle of the season. The Argo scouting department. Right. Mark Trestman only joined the team in June.

Oh, you don't say. Yeah. And it's funny that we're both recording right now because I think as we speak, this is now the big parade at In-N-Out Square, right? It's happening right now. Tell me if I'm wrong, but if Leafs had won the Stanley Cup,

we would have to postpone this recording. Yeah, I think I'd be at the parade. And I was thinking, if the Raptors win the championship, I'm postponing this recording. I'm going to keep going here. If the Blue Jays win the World Series, I'm postponing this recording.

And I think if TFC wins this MLS Cup, I think I might have that too. So it's really the Argos that are the red-headed stepchild here. I enjoyed the game thoroughly.

It was an exciting game and we won. And I was really happy to win, but I did not postpone this recording to go to the... I can't call it a parade, right? Because it's just like... It's just at Nathan Phillips Square. There's no

parade. I want to be in love with the Argos. I want to be an Argos fan, and I actually feel like moving to the new stadium, which they haven't even sold out yet. Have you been there yet? I've been there to see a Toronto FC game. I haven't been to see an Argos game.

Actually, I had tickets, and I was supposed to go to one, and then something happened, and I can't remember exactly what it was, but something dramatic happened that I couldn't go to the game at the last minute. As long as it was dramatic. But I feel like in that stadium, on the natural grass, in the open air, that the environment there is going to be perfect for watching football. And so maybe, although I'm not at the parade, maybe next time I will be. You never know.

Yeah. I like the idea of being an Argos fan, even a season ticket holder. But I don't know that I can afford it with three kids right now playing their own sports. So we'll see. You'd be surprised at how affordable the Argos season tickets are.

But I can actually, you know, if you really want tickets to check it out, you're Ed Keenan for heaven's sake. I can get you a media pass to a game. I can make, you know, if you really want tickets to check it out, you're Ed Keenan for heaven's sake. I can get you a media pass to a game. I can make that happen. Star policy actually prevents star employees from using media passes unless they are reporting on the event. Well, then we're going to have to report on this.

That's what I'll have to write about it. Write about the hot dogs in the BMO club. I can't just dive into the jams without talking about something in your industry that happened yesterday. Yeah. You probably heard. Not just in my industry, but in my company, I think. It is, of course. So I'm just going to tell you what I know, and you might not know much more because I just read press releases. media and tour star which is your employer they swapped a bunch of papers like local papers and

and a few that are like the 24 hours in toronto and something but they they swap these papers and basically right away both of them like each of them uh shutter like basically stop producing their pay i think only five here's I know. 41 papers were swapped. 36 of them were closed. And the last number I saw was like 290 people were out of work. That's a sad, sad day yesterday. It is. It's a horrifying day.

I mean, we have too many of those days in this business now, the business I'm in. And it's, I mean, the people at Ottawa Metro did really good work. The people at, the Barry Examiner, for example, was over 150 years old.

And for a city the size of Barry, which is not, I mean, it's not big, but it's not tiny either. It's like, well, well over 100,000 people live living there. Sounds about right. I don't have it in front of me,

but I do know some people who live in Barrie. And for them to have the kind of information about their community, but also the accountability for local institutions, their local OPP officers, their city hall, I mean, it's really, really valuable. And sort of the tradition of that, the history of that, and then the hard work of the people who have been there

in the last few years is just sort of comes to a sudden stop. If I had more inside information, which I don't, I probably wouldn't be allowed to talk about it. But I don't. And so what I can say about it is that I think it's really sad. And I think newspapers as an industry or the news outlets as an industry have to figure out soon how to make this business sustainable. And we haven't figured it out yet. Now, I'm going to ask you a question as like smart guy Ed, not as Torstar employee.

This is smart guy Ed. Can you explain to me, was there an accounting benefit to like, there's no cash trades hands, right? But you swap papers for the other guys to shut it down. Why not just shut it down yourself? Like, I don't understand that part of this. I'm not as bright.

Yeah, I mean, I wish I was smart enough to understand it. I mean, it may have... Like, it's weird. I don't remember anything like this. I'm wildly speculating. Yeah, yeah. And again, I don't have any inside information and I, for my own sake, I would use the proviso

that I'm not complaining about my bosses, that I'm not accusing anybody of anything. But I think, is it possibly, I mean, it seems like both companies here are sort of dividing up territory a little bit, that they're trading papers so that... To get a monopoly in the market? that. Like agreeing to do that might run afoul of some competition rules, whereas actually trading assets and then making your own company decisions about those assets may be something different in the eyes of regulators. So explain that to Toronto.

I'm wildly speculating. Sure. No, I think when you look at it, like, so for example, Tourstar ended up with 24 Hours, which is like a daily, like one of those free papers you get, commuters, I guess you call those things. But they already own a commuter. They do. They own Metro Toronto.

So it's no, for them, they're going to shut that down. Now you have to have the Metro Toronto. Yeah, I mean, I have to say, I know some people who worked at 24 Hours when it was first founded,

and they're a little bit nostalgic and sad. But since 24 Hours Toronto had no staff members, no full-time staff members at all, it's probably among the least sad from a human perspective. Right, right, right. Yeah, of course. But also, what I happen to know is that, and this is, again, not inside information, but having been in the business a long time and followed things, is that Metro used to be distributed in subway stations and had the contract for that.

And at a certain point when the contract was up for renewal, either Metro decided it was not worth the money or 24 hours outbid them. But 24 hours has been distributed in the subways for the last couple of years. And so I don't know now that Metro, Torstar owns 24 hours and it's going out of business if they'll assume that contract and put Metro back in there. But I mean, for a free commuter paper, the paper version of it, people on the subway with unreliable access to Wi-Fi are a good market for that, and distributing it to them right as they're getting on the subway, like right while they're thinking about, what the heck am I going to stare at?

Am I going to read those same ads again, or look at this guy? Or have I got some news to read? So that might be a particular advantage in that one particular market. And, you know, so that might be a particular advantage in that one particular market. And as I say, the lack of a significant staff for 24 hours makes it among the less hurtful. The least sad. Yeah. Now, so one of the most sad you mentioned, was it the Barry Examiner? Is that what that one's called?

The Barry Examiner? Yeah, I think so. So you said it was like 150 years old or whatever. that one's called? The Barry Examiner? Yeah, I think so. So you said it was like 150 years old or whatever. So what I'm so, I mean, it's so sad that Barry loses out on this, you know, the newspaper that served the community and there are

people that, you know, lost their jobs as a result of the paper folding. But they don't even get that last issue. You know how like papers get that last issue? Yeah, and they put a 30 on the front and everybody writes their sort of, this is the history of the great work. Right, like they don't even get that. It's just like a surprise.

Like you just did your last issue about the Argos winning the Great Cup or whatever. Yeah, and I think it's almost a double-edged sword. When we did the grid and it shut down, we didn't get a last issue, right? We used to publish the grid, like the weekly edition. The website was always being updated, but the weekly edition. The website was always being updated,

but the weekly edition used to come out on Thursdays, but we put it to bed. We finished working on it on Tuesday night, and we came in to work on Wednesday, and that's when we were told, like, we're shutting down effective immediately. You know, take your time, clean out your desks, everybody have a good cry, that kind of thing.

And, you know, actually the editors had some work to do because they had to reach out to freelancers to try and spread the news before they heard it otherwise, right? And stuff like that. But there was no chance to say goodbye, and it was a double-edged sword. But, I mean, my boss at the time explained it to me that his thinking on this was that, on the one hand, if you give people a chance to say goodbye, some of them will really do a good job of that. And for readers, too, it offers this sense of, I mean, closure is such an overword, but a sense that this thing they've been following, that they've been fans of, say goodbye to them. But on the other hand, from a more pragmatic point of view, it's like you come into work one day and they say, you're fired. You're fired.

Okay, now get to work on doing the last one. That's a good point. It's hard to get motivated or stay motivated. It's almost unfair in some respects to ask people to handle that bad news, try and figure out what they're doing next, try and put their lives in order, their financial future in order, and at the same time ask them to work on an extra special issue that's going to celebrate this organization that's just let them go. That's a good point. That's a good point. Now, before this PostMediaia tour star news broke yesterday,

I was planning to ask you about the death of the Alt Weekly. Because all over the place, the death of New York and Beyond and the Village Voice and all these, you know, I think now is still around. They're still printing now, but it's sort of like begging for spare change in its pages. So I wanted to ask you your thoughts since you worked for the grid, still printing now, but it's sort of like begging for spare change in its pages. So I wanted to ask you your thoughts since you worked for The Grid, which I prefer to know

by iWeekly is what I heard. I worked for iWeekly, yeah. Right, of course. So is this the same story, basically? Are they related? The trouble in the alt-weekly industry is definitely related very closely to the trouble in the newspaper industry and the print news business at large. But it has some particularities, right? Like traditionally, one of the main jobs of an Alt Weekly in the pre-internet days, and like especially the pre-smartphone days, and Alt Weekly in the pre-internet days, and especially the pre-smartphone days,

was that you're in a donut shop with your friends downtown, and you're like, what are we going to do tonight? So you pick up Now or I or The Village Voice or the Chicago Reader, or it depends what city you're in, right? The city paper in Minneapolis, and you flip through it, and you see the articles, but also you find those listings, right? You say, oh, well, this band's playing at the Cameron House or, you know, what time are the movies on? Then you go to the Showtime's listings page.

And so this listings function, this like what's going on in the city right now was really important to a lot of people. And even people who didn't, who weren't necessarily right in the the sweet spot of the target market would be picking it up all the time for that right for the movie showtimes or the concert listings or the uh the theater listings um and and you know i know at i weekly like for example it's a very niche market in Toronto, but the art gallery listings, especially the independent gallery listings, would be like, we were one of two sources of that information.

It wasn't being compiled elsewhere at all. And so that function, though, Facebook started to kill it even before people had smartphones. We noticed it, that before Facebook screwed up their whole invite function and their events functionality with their algorithms and everything else, it is like all of a sudden none of our staff were using our own papers listings as their main source of things. It's that they would get invited or if they knew about a show that they wanted to go to, they would invite all their friends to it on Facebook. And so this was helping people plan their week already, that.

And then when you had smartphones, it's like, if I want to look up movie show times, I could go over and find a stack of papers and leaf through it. Or I could just Google the movie I want to see and the theater I want to see, and it comes up on my phone in seconds. So I think that was a big thing. And then the death of print advertising definitely was a factor.

But the death of classified advertising, first general classifieds, and then adult classifieds, also was a killer. Because classified advertising for newspapers in general, not just Alt Weekly, classified advertising was a cash cow. Like this is a page full of ads. And for every page you got of that, you can print another page of editorial content. And it's not like it doesn't take up two-thirds of the page. It doesn't like share space with your stuff. It's like it's a full page there of just money.

And so then Craigslist and others were basically just a better way to do classified advertising. And suddenly it's like somebody can search for apartments in their neighborhood, in their price range, and instantly get all these results. And it's free for the advertiser and free for the user. Why would they, again, want this big sheaf of paper that you've got to walk to the end of the street to get, right? And you've got to read them all to see. And it's going to leave the ink on your fingers. And if you're wearing a white shirt, you're going to end up... Like you scan down for Bloor and Bathurst if that's where you want to live, but you basically have to read all the, or scan at least, all the listings

to see that your neighborhood, your criteria are there. So, I mean, it was just a better fit for most advertisers and most users of them, and so that was a killer. And then adult classifieds actually persisted for quite a long time because a lot of people didn't want to search for that kind of thing on their home computers. But then eventually that dried up as well. It was made illegal in some jurisdictions,

and then it was just inevitable that eventually, with smartphones and things, people would start searching for that stuff online and advertising that stuff online. I think all those factors combined meant that, and the grid was an attempt to reinvent what that kind of paper would be in an era when listings and classifieds were not going to drive the business model. And it was not successful financially in doing that, ultimately.

And I don't't it doesn't seem like anybody else has figured it out either right so I mean you don't have an answer to this because your crystal ball is not working but how long are we like now I'm thinking of now and would anyone be shocked a year from now to hear now was gonna you know yeah I mean I don't know I mean I suspect and and I when I when I was talking about tour star before I said like I don't know. I mean, I suspect, and I, when I, when I was talking about tour star before I said, like, I don't have any information. I have like the opposite of inside information on now magazine because the hostility between, uh, the places I've worked and now magazine has been high and

keenly felt, especially in now as executive offices. Uh, and so, so, uh, uh, but I mean, And so, but, I mean, it's getting slimmer, which is a measure of financial success because the size of the paper is usually related directly to the amount of advertising. And it seems to, I can't imagine that they're, like, rolling in money. I imagine that if the Village Voice has gone online only, then it's probably a matter of time for now. But we'll see.

Especially, though, since they've severed their music festival from the magazine. There's a tradition in the print media business to some extent like traditionally advertising provided all this money right like lots of money daily newspaper owners would have these like double digit profit margins year after year it was like um but but in addition even after things started getting slimmer like a company like torstar would own harlequin uh which produces a lot of money. It's not related at all to the news business, but it produces quite a bit of money. And if times get tough, there's a cushion there. There's a profit cushion, quarter after quarter, keeping your

shareholders, if not happy, at least at bay. And some leeway that if you decide an investment is needed to move you to where you've got to go, you've got the cash on hand from your profitable ventures that you've got. Tourstar has still now a similar kind of thing, I think, but for a long time, I think for now, the music festival was like that as well, North by Northeast. And, you know, Washington Post now has Amazon, I guess. So maybe that's good for them.

But, I mean, in the long term, if the newspaper is going to be a viable business on its own, it's not going to be because it's like the money-losing arm of some larger enterprise, unless it serves some direct purpose to that larger enterprise, right? If we're depending on philanthropy, like an owner who has a profitable business who does this as a money losing thing, then we got to be honest that what that is, is philanthropy. That's not the success of diversification. That's actually a newspaper

continuing to lose money, but somebody keeping in business because they think it's worth owning. On that note, if any multimillionaires love this podcast and just want more of this, just let me know and you could probably own this thing for a year and we can keep it. I thought maybe you were going to talk about starting up a romance novel business on the side. Who says I haven't already done so? But let me chat with you about a guy. I think you worked with him at iWeekly.

Mark Weisblot? Yeah. So Mark... Mark's been a regular here. So every quarter, like clockwork. I know Mark, who I refer to as Mr. 1236 now. He's going to be at the door. Mainly because I give him free beer.

And he loves making it... And a chance to talk. Yeah, that's right. So every quarter, he's coming in. Actually, we booked coming in, actually. We booked his fourth quarter appearance. It's going to happen December 20-something, I believe. I have to double-check. But maybe the week before that.

But Mark's coming in. But he's got the 1236 daily newsletter going. Do you subscribe? I do. And it's one of the few newsletters that I subscribe to that I actually read. That says something, right? There's very few that I even open anymore. I mean, I subscribe with the best of intentions.

Like, I'm actually interested in this content. And so allow me to subscribe to it. But often it comes at a time when it's not a good time. But often also, and I think maybe this is a mistake that we, I've never run a newsletter, so I say we meaning journalists in general, a mistake that we've been making is that our newsletters are often like, serve the same function as our Twitter feed or our Twitter shares of our own content, where the newsletter is just pushing out links to say, hey, I wrote this today, or this is the stuff we've written about your topic of interest this week. Click through these links to our website, which can be a useful function, I imagine, for some people. But I'm consuming news in real enough time, and the things I like, I actually, like magazine, long-form magazine stuff is sort of like I sit down with it and I go looking for it, right?

I don't need it pushed to me. And then breaking news, I'm following in real time. So by the time I open a newsletter that tells me they published this story, I read the story four hours ago. there is some of it is original reporting, but some of it is that he's scouring the far corners of the internet and the less viral, the less immediately viral pages of different news outlets and finding stories that suit a certain sensibility, a certain interest in the city, and certain kinds of stories. And I think he's doing well with it. certain interest in the city and the certain kinds of stories.

And I think he's, he's doing well with it. Just for an example today, yesterday I tweeted, did 640, did AM 640 let go Gary Spaceman Bell? Because I know his show, which has been there for like for decades, I think, but the show didn't air the last two weekends. And they said there was some, I think, anti-Semitic content or something is what they said. And I was getting, I get, you know, people come to me, I got emails and different people saying, I think Bell's been fired. I don't, I think he's there, but I don't have any evidence

that Bell's been fired. So I just tweeted the question, like, has he been let go? And today in the 1236 newsletter, Mark links to a Facebook post by somebody who's good friends with Gary saying that Gary has decided to retire. Like he doesn't want to do the commute anymore. He's a veteran of the radio. And so, like, I mean, so there's something, for example. But I think also 1236 had had a news item,

either that or he posted it on Twitter earlier about a press release coming from AM640 saying that the show was no longer going to air, and in the same press release apologizing for the comments that were made. Yes, yes. So the show canceled, yes, although it's still on their schedule, but that might be like a CMS issue with the website or whatever. So the show's canceled.

That's been confirmed. But is Gary still? He's still a board op, and he still does stuff. Yeah, because he's been there a long time as far as I know. I know he used to be produced to the Stafford show and stuff like that. So,

I mean, that's the kind of stuff you get from 1236 that you're not getting anywhere else. You know what I mean? Just pointing you at that person's Facebook post

about Gary telling her that, you know, he's retired. And I just wondered what you thought of, and it sounds like you're all into it.

You're actually reading it. But if what 1236 is doing, is that sort of like our new alt-weekly? Is this the new... I mean, it could be, but I mean, the idea of finding news that's not otherwise available to your readers, which doesn't mean it's not available, because a lot of what Mark does is essentially a certain kind of like... Aggregation? essentially a certain kind of like aggregation, right? Like he finds news stories, he finds Reddit threads, he finds tweets, and he puts them in front of you.

But things that you wouldn't otherwise see and gathering them in one place for you. But I think that's what a lot of publications and blogs and alt-weeklies and newspapers have done with tons of original reporting. Like what reporters do is they go out and they find a story you didn't know about, and they interview a bunch of people and get all the facts about it, and then they write it up and show it to you. But the delivery model of 1236, the particular thing about,

it sends it to you by email, it gets you to read it, it can closely track how many people are opening it, how many people are clicking through links on it, and can closely track how many people are opening it, how many people are clicking through links on it, and all of that. And that sort of, in the news business today, from what I can tell, what filters down to me from sort of the buzzword-filled creative business offices, is that like engagement with the readers is a really important thing that advertisers want and that publications want. It's good for both of them, right?

So that people who are loyal customers, they're not just surfing in because they saw a link on Twitter and then surfing right back out, but people who are coming back to you for every day, people who are going to, if it comes five minutes late, they're going to be emailing you to ask,

what happened to my issue today? Why isn't it here? Those people are actually reading you. They're not scanning it, and they're reading you, not the news, but you. And so that can be valuable. And you can sell advertising off of that in a way that it's harder and harder to sell advertising on other kinds of news products. And I guess there's a question of scale for most businesses that want to operate the way or provide a living for a staff of people and all of that. It might be more difficult, but certainly it seems to be supporting Mark through St. Joseph's Media that owns it.

Mark, you know, through St. Joseph's Media that owns it, it seems to be, from the outside, without any inside information, it seems to be generating enough revenue to justify its continued existence. John Gallagher bought an ad last week, I saw. Oh, really? I was thinking, John Gallagher's selling a book, which I've read, by the way. I don't think your name is dropped. You might have escaped Gallagher's web.

But I want to kick out the jams, and we're already like 48 minutes deep. So these guys who complain that we don't do the deep dives anymore, we just had 48 minutes of Ed Keenan. That's a deep dive. But I'm going to skip the obvious. Now I could dive into the black hole of the most expensive subway station

in world history, but I'm not feeling it. I just don't feel like it. Unless you can do it in one sentence. Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, whatever I'm going to say, people have already heard before. If they read anything I write,

but also, I mean, this argument is, I think, fairly well established in the city, and so I don't know that it's worth us to dive into that. And I think we did that last time, and I remember while we did it, and then we did think we did that last time, and I remember while we did it, and then we did several minutes on it last time,

and I remember I had a fantasy of chewing a razor blade. So I don't think we should do it again. By the way, you have three kids. If one of them comes to you and says that they want to go to journalism school, what's your response? I'd probably tell them to do something else, which is not the same as telling them not to

do journalism. But I think, as somebody who went to journalism school, I think that a good journalist might be better off to study something else, anything else, whatever they're interested in, whether that's business, whether it's science, whether it's art history,

and enjoy the experience and the discipline of sort of learning about that thing. And then either go to a journalism school for graduate school or just go and start working as a journalist, right? Start writing, whether that's running your own blog at first or getting internships or whatnot. Starting 1237? I mean, quite a lot of the most successful journalists in this country did not go to journalism school. And I don't think that that's going to change, especially when the ways to start your own publication are easier and easier and easier.

And the proof in the pudding is that you're now listening to a broadcast from my basement. And I did this all myself. A radically successful... A radically successful that Ed Keenan came over three times. If you want to help crowdfund this radically successful

independent broadcasting, please go to patreon.com slash Toronto Mike and whatever dollar a month or $100 a month if you're so inclined. And if you're a millionaire who wants to do more, give me a shout. Help keep this going. And the beer for your wife, Rebecca,

that's from Great Lakes Brewery, if we weren't clear about that. Pompous Ass. Pompous Ass. And I already made my joke about the seven pompous asses going home to Rebecca tonight. But I want to tell everybody

that there is a, I wish this had a fancy name, but I don't have it, but there's a, Great Lakes Brewery is celebrating 30 years, and there's a documentary feature that was put together about GLB,

and they're going to air it at the Kingsway Theatre on December 10 and I'm looking at my notes here that says you can still buy tickets and for $25 you get entry to see the movie. Maybe you can even sit beside me. I don't know if that costs you more or less.

I don't know. But you get a commemorative gold-rimmed stemmed glass from Great Lakes Brewery and you get a couple of drink tickets, which you can redeem at the premiere because GLB will have a beer garden set up. Kingsway Theatre is fully licensed. Did you know that?

I did not know that. Now you know. Now you know. So come see us all on December 10th at Kingsway Theatre. There's a pint glass. That's the one. That's from Brian Gerstein

at propertyinthesix.com. And you can... Now, I told Brian, I talked to Brian earlier today because I need more pint glasses. I'm running dangerously low and we record a lot of podcasts. So he's trying to get a rush order for more pint glasses. There's a whole thing. So what you're saying is this may be a collector's item.

Do you have one yet? Like, you've been here three times. I don't. This is a new innovation since the last time I got here. Wow. That's yours. You're bringing that home. And just tell your wife if she's going to drink the Pompous Ash, she's going to pour it in the pint glass.

She's going to pour it in the property in the 6.com pineclaw. And if you're, of course, if your wife decides it's time for you guys to move to a bigger home, uh, you're going to call Brian at 416-873-0292 and have a chat with Brian before you do anything. I told Brian that for David Schultz's episode, he did a, like, um,

a special message. He recorded a message that I played and I liked it because it was something different just for David and it kind of shows his personality or whatever because he's a great guy. And I told him, let's record something special for every guest, even the guests you aren't familiar with. I thought it'd be funny.

Do a little Googling and record something about the guest. And if it's Andy Frost is coming on soon. Of course Brian knows Andy Frost. You get a chance to do your Andy Frost impersonation. Like, we all have one, right? Do you have one? The sweet sound of...

Yeah, it's not a very good impersonation. Strawberry alarm clock. You're not quite doing it in this part of the register. I see. There's a nasal, denasalized part of it. A Kermit-esque quality to his pipes. But, yeah, so I told him to do a unique psychedelic Sunday

on the Mighty Q. He's great, though. He's great. He is. I can't wait. I worked on him for, I would say, five years, maybe? I worked on Andy Frost, and he always politely replied with, yes, let's do it. And it would be something like this. It'd be, oh, for sure, let's do it. And it would be something like this.

It'd be, oh, for sure. Let's do it in February. But he wouldn't commit to a time and date. I'd be, hey, Andy, you ready to pick your time and date? And then he'd kind of get quiet. And then six months later, I'd be, hey, Andy, how about coming on Toronto Mike? Like we talked about, I think he'd love it. And he'd be like, absolutely.

We'll do it in November for sure. And then, you know, November would come and go, and this would go on for five years. But he's committed to a specific date and time. Andy Frost is coming in. And what date and time is that? December 12th. But if I tell you the time, I can tell you off. The time is not necessary.

Right, because we're not live. We'll just be watching our... watching, refreshing your website to see when it's posted. I thought you were going to try to come here. Yeah, to meet Andy Frost. You can just have all the fans will be outside doing their Andy Frost impression. Like, you know, sadly,

when Gore Downey passed away and they had the choir, choir, choir at Nathan Phillips Square, it was very cathartic for a lot of people. I just envision people gather outside my home doing their andy frost all together it'd be great we should do more things together uh and finally because the jams are being kicked out that was not just a a ruse to keep you tuned in we're really going to do it in like a minute but i want to tell you about paytm because i actually eat my own dog food here i did it this

morning i had a uh toronto hydro bill i had to pay this morning and i used about Paytm because I actually eat my own dog food here. I did it this morning. I had a Toronto Hydro bill I had to pay this morning. And I used the Paytm app to pay the Toronto Hydro bill. If you do that and you use the promo code Toronto Mike, when you do the transaction, it says you have a promo code. You click that. You stick in Toronto Mike. And it gives you $10 from Paytm to pay your bills. And the other thing is you can, some of them are 2%,

but a lot of them are 3%. Like you get 3% cash back. If you buy a, like there's a Tim Hortons gift card or an SO gift card. I saw an Amazon gift card. So you buy it. Like let's say you buy a $50 gift card for Amazon. They give you 3% of that.

They give it to you like in cash and you still get 50 bucks gift card for $50. Like, so to me it's just free money. So go to paytm.ca, download the app, use the promo code Toronto Mike. That's all one word. And you get the 10 bucks and you can thank me later.

Cause it's a very cool app for, uh, managing all your bills in one spot. Mr. Keenan, I have a question for you. Yeah. Do you want...

No, do you want... Holy shit, how do I butcher the question? I should start writing that down. Are you ready to kick out the jams? I am! Ah, there we go. Am I the first one whose first jam started with an accordion? I believe so.

It's an unconventional way to kick them out, but... Well, for a guy named Ed Irish, I would expect nothing less. Mr. Valentine's dead when he's drinking Manhattans Singing a coal miner's tune In his daddy's tuxedo and Fred Astaire shoes He's the best looking corpse in the room Mr. Valentine's dead and the angels are waiting Down at the end of the bar

Where the drinking martinis are laughing and laughing Smoking Havana cigars Have you ever seen dead men dancing so lightly? Did you ever hear corpses sing? Mr. Valentine's dead And the angels will take him But not till he's finished his drink Yeah

That's Kevin Clayne and the Mad Bastards The actual recording of this song Which I've listened to thousands of times Is still just a reminder in my head The Mad Bastards house for an absurd number of years, like well over a decade, every Sunday night. And it was basically Kevin with a random assortment of, not random, but a rotating sort of cast of mad bastards who would pop by. So sometimes there'd be some guy playing the saw. Sometimes there was a stand-up bass. Sometimes there was, and Kevin would even play the piano the accordion the guitar just for four hours right and play these

original songs and and they're always different because they'd have these long solos And the first time I saw Kevin Klain there, I actually had gone to the Cameron House because before Kevin and the Mad Bastards did it, anybody remember in the 90s there was this weird swing revival? Yeah, James B. and what's his name from the Stray Cats? He came back with the Jump, Jive and Wail. Setzer? Yeah, yeah. Brian Setzer.

Brian Setzer Orchestra. They used to have Scotch and Cigar Night with Big Rude Jake on Sunday nights. And, hold on. When they do that live, he says, and the band's playing Goodnight Irene. And then for a long time, they would just do a verse of Goodnight Irene, like the chorus of it, right? Which seamlessly fits into the sort of reel they're playing. And then he started changing it up so he'd say the band's playing You Sexy Thing and they would completely shift gears and do a bit of You Sexy Thing. But

the first time we went to see Big Root Jake, it wasn't the first time, but one time we went to see Big Root Jake and there's this other guy there. And Big Root Jake was on tour so he was filling in. And I thought, and there's this other guy there. And Big Rude Jake was on tour, so he was filling in. And I thought, he's doing this kind of Tom Waits thing, but with a cabaret feel and all original songs that he had written. And so at first I thought it was a fun gimmick. And then he would do like, he did a cover of the Mary Tyler Moore theme song. He did a cover of You Shook Me All Night Long long with the accordion it was like a lot of fun but yeah this song in

particular stuck with me it was like another year I was still singing this song to myself in my head and we went back and he was there and he was now the regular one so we used to go back Rebecca and I and a bunch of our other friends would go not every Sunday but you know a couple times a month when I was working on Queen Street for a long time and he has a, this album's called Hangover Honeymoon, he's got another couple albums but

still it's been years since I saw him play live the Mad Bastards are no longer at Cameron House but he still plays off in it for Graffiti's and what not but it's like every, a week doesn't go by without me singing Kevin Quain to myself in my head. The lyrics, like, just sticking with me.

The first time I saw him, I thought, oh, he's doing this kind of Tom Waits knockoff thing, which is fun. But then the more I started listening to him, when I started going regularly, I realized, like, he's just a brilliant songwriter. And he's not really, in most of his songs, imitating Tom Waits. He has the same kind of gravelly voice, but he's not doing the same kind of shouting and whatnot. He's really crooning, and it's his own unique thing. And the songwriting

is just beautiful, and I'd love it if people would check it out. Oh, fantastic tune. I never heard that tune until you told me to source it out. And since then, I've been listening to it quite a bit because that's a killer track, man. That's a great way to start these jams. Yeah, and I thought maybe that for a lot of people, not just because it's so ultra local, but also because it's a little bit older,

stretching back to the 1990s, that maybe it would be unfamiliar with people and wanted to start that way, because maybe some of my other ones are not so unfamiliar. I don't even know if we mentioned the name of that song, but that's Mr. Valentine's Dead. Yeah. Mr. Valentine's Dead by Kevin Queen and the Mad Bastards. And if I was rambling too much, it's about Mr. Valentine is dead and the angels are waiting to take him. They're in the bar,

but he's not planning to leave until he finishes his drink. Right. I almost cracked one open during that jam. That's a drinking song, my friend. That's great. The thing about Kevin Quayne is that it's really like drunken vampire matinee.

He wrote a play called Tequila Vampire Matinee, which was based on his song. And that's what he calls it. But they're almost all songs about like heartbreak and drinking. There's this one song, the title, you don't need to know all the details, but it's called Monkey Boy Dance. But there's a verse and it just like,

so much of my 20s was like tied up in there where it's like, it's a million o'clock. You're the last drunk on the block on your last cigarette in the worst donut shop. And it was just like. That means it's a galaxy donuts right now. Yeah. Maybe. Quite possibly.

Let's kick out another jam. Oh, yeah. Here it comes. Wow. Have it comes. I said if you need a loving man, I'll travel. I travel from Maine to Mexico just to find a little girl that loves me so. No matter where, no matter where I'll be, I'm looking for a woman that'll satisfy me. So this is the Sonics. Have Love Will Travel,

which to me is like the platonic ideal of a garage rock song. Like that surf rock guitar line, the thumping drums, the big scream at the beginning, great rock and roll scream. And now this saxophone. Sounds like it's being played through an amp on one end of a tin can

attached to a string. You don't hear much about the Sonics. You don't hear much about them. No, and I actually don't know much about the Sonics. I know Strychnine, and I know Psycho, and I know this. But it's not like I'm a giant Sonics fan, but I love this song. And on my Newstalk 1010 show, I used to use this as my intro music. I have always, and I came to this song relatively late. It was recorded in the 60s, 64, I think, but I didn't grow up with it.

I encountered it as an adult probably 15 years ago, 10 years ago, and then just started listening to it all the time. But I have always loved raw garage rock, like 96 Tears, Question Mark and the Mysterians, the Trogs, you know, Wild Thing, of course, songs like My Generation from The Who, you know, and then you go right up to like Last Night by The Strokes. In between you've got Should I Stay or Should I Go? There's that driving rock with a riff and a scream

and a guitar and the drum line and the sort of fuzziest to the sound that makes it feel like the whole room's going to kind of explode, like they're in a bar and they're just giving it. I love that kind of music in general. I love those kinds of songs in general. And at the point in my life where I heard

Have Love, Will Travel, I was like, that's it. That's the song. Nobody needs to do this anymore because it's been done exactly right. When that movement happened where it kind of came back, there was all the The bands, right? The Hives, The White Stripes. Spell in Love of a Girl had a bit of that going on.

Yeah. The White Stripes, so great. I mean, Jack White, I still listen to quite a bit. And I mention that because he's not... Nothing by Jack White is on my list. So there's no spoiler there. But I'm with you, man. I just played a little...

I had Andrea Beaton, who is the daughter of Kate Wheeler. She came in. She's only 22 years old. She came in to kick out the jams. And I played her a bit of Fell in Love with a Girl because it's got that, my heart's still beating. Yeah, yeah. And it was coming through these headphones, you know.

Music sounds better in headphones. I don't know if you know this. It really, really does. It does. And I don't know if that was the mix on that track, but it's kind of dirty and fuzzy and kind of garage. And it's like the vocals are all coming out the right side and you got the sax on the left.

There's a certain kind of music where I feel like really good production can make it work really well. You go through Motown or all kinds of stuff that was in the 80s.

But then there's a kind of song where you want it to feel raw. The song doesn't sound right if it doesn't feel like they're actually just playing a line and sweating all over you. Don't overproduce this. Neil Young had some jams like this

where he wanted it to sound like he's in his freaking garage and he's grinding this out. He doesn't want it to sound polished and produced. Yeah, and I think the Strokes in particular did a lot of that where it sounds like they're shouting through a megaphone

or something, right? But it still comes through your headphones just perfectly. I'm with you, buddy. So far, so good. I can't wait to kick out this third jam. Oh, wait. Stop? Are we okay? I'll play until you tell me to abort.

This is just not the... Not the version. I've never heard this version before. Oh, you know, it's not the first time I've screwed up, but... So I believe this to be, and I wasn't familiar with the jam, so maybe I really messed up here, but this was 25 Miles by Edwin Starr. So this is some kind of weird remix or re-recording of 25 Miles.

Okay, give me a second here. I can go to YouTube in an emergency situation. This is what I do in an emergency. I go to YouTube. I mean, this is kind of an interesting jam. It's not your jam. It doesn't bear too close a relationship to the song that I Okay, bear

with me here. So, 25 miles. So, because you thought this was Edwin Starr, you don't know who did this version. No, I don't know. But I will gently take that down. There you go.

There you go. So you see with the horns, it's a bit of a different song. Thank goodness for YouTube. Oh, my God. I'll let you tell your story. I wrote a whole entry about this jam. You did?

Yeah. Yeah, okay. I'll let you finish. I don't have a whole entry about this jam. You did? Yeah. I'll let you finish. I don't have a great story about this jam. This is one where there's not a big story attached. Except that this may be my favorite song. I don't know. It makes me happy every time I hear it.

I could have done a whole top ten list that was just all Motown and been very happy and yet this song with his like sort of shouting excited voice right on the edge of being in control the horns that that drums okay so while it's playing I need to tell my story, which is when I started this podcast almost five and a half years ago, I wanted a theme song. So before I recorded an episode, I said, I want a Toronto Mike theme song. So I went to a local rapper producer that was a friend of a friend named Ill Vibe. And I'm like, this is how I explained it to him. I said, I want a cool modern version of

the as it happens theme song okay all right so I always loved growing up I would hear it I still listen the as it happens theme I love it and the as it happens theme is 25 miles by a star this is the thing it's it's not but it is. So it's an original composition by the gentleman who I can't remember his name anymore, but I wrote about it because it's clearly this.

Like, he didn't give any writing credit, but Edwin Starr, and when it comes on, we'll tell the people. Here, this part. Do-do-do-do-do. Breaking it down, baby.

And I had never recognized it as a having a theme song. Edwin Starr is much better known for War. Of course. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. But this song is just like, and I love actually War too. I have it on vinyl at home, the record that has both War and this on.

And yet, the first time I heard this I was just like, I mean it makes me want to walk 25 miles to see my baby. I do 50. I'm telling you, excellent jam. And it's funny, on the title of like, I mean, it makes me want to walk 25 miles to see my baby. I do 50s. I'm telling you, excellent jam. And it's funny, on the title of it, I didn't know it. I just sourced out the song, which was the wrong song.

But I didn't listen because I was busy. And as I hear it, I'm very familiar with this jam. I've written about this jam because it is the As It Happens theme song, whether they give it credit or not. Killer track. It's fantastic.

I played this on my I used to have this CIUT show and I played this once because I used to play they don't have commercials on CIUT

so in lieu of commercial breaks when I wanted to reset I would have music breaks and so I'd have themes and the theme at one point

was transportation so I had that as a walking song. And then immediately the other producers and people around were all like, oh, this is the CBC Radio As It Happens theme song. And I was like, whoa, I didn't know that. And it turns out it's not, but it certainly sounds

like it. Well, and if I did some homework I would say there's actually another song between the two. So there's another song. In fact, it gets played, I think, is that the jam that shows up in like uh is it edwin stars jam that shows up in commercials you see like maybe during uh i'm trying to remember during the nba playoffs there'll be an ad for something like a nike or something and like because there's a there were two songs and there was a song that kind of ripped someone else off and then as it happens rips that off.

Search my blog for As It Happens, and you'll hear my whole story about it. But great jam. So I used to have, and this is the thing, my friends and I used to DJ these dance parties at pubs downtown, and our whole thing was sort of like, just like, you know, things that will fill the dance floor,

like Shameless Top 40, but from every decade just like, you know, things that will fill the dance floor, like shameless top 40. But from every decade, like and all of that. And and I would put that on and people would freak out. And I and I loved it because the thing is that, you know, like there's certain Motown songs, you know, if you put Jackson 5 on, there's a certain crowd of people who are going to start jumping up and down and get so excited. Or if you like Aretha Franklin's Respect. Right. But this is a track that a crowd of people who are going to start jumping up and down and get so excited or like Aretha Franklin's Respect, right? But this is a track that a lot of people

actually weren't familiar with and yet, like I was bobbing up and down here, I almost started dancing while we were just sitting here because it's like impossible not to move.

It's impossible not to get motivated listening to it. By the way, just so people know, that song I played at the beginning, which was the incorrect version,

it turns out that is Edwin Starr with Army of Lovers. So if you heard that and loved it, that's what you're looking for. It's still him singing, but with Army of Lovers. With Army of Lovers. It's a very different arrangement of it. It was recognizably the song. At first I was starting to say, this is not it.

And then I was like, oh wait, I thought maybe you had added some sound effects. No, I would never do that to your jams. Sacrilegious. No way. Oh, man, I got to get to this fourth jam. It's a jam I know all too well. Let's hear jam number four. guitar solo Bell Barilco disappeared That summer He was on a fishing trip The last gold he ever scored

Won the least of love One release for love They didn't win another Till 1962 The year he was discovered I stole this from a hockey card I keep turning up under My fifth-division cap I worked it in

I worked it in to love like that. It's my fifth-division car. It's a crooked, different car. And I worked it in. I worked it in. I worked it in to love like that. And I worked it in what this song is. I think everybody knows who did it.

First of all, as a writer, I've got to say that just as a little bit of storytelling, that song, the lyrics we've just heard, they sum up so much, and they do such a storytelling job. But there are probably actually quite a few hip songs that I like more as songs, like that I would put on for a certain mood. But there's none that have meant as much to me as this song. You know, I wore this t-shirt without remembering that you had a hip track in your jams. Like, I wore my hip T-shirt. He is wearing a tragically hip T-shirt.

They're going to see our photo on the lawn afterwards. So this song in particular, and I imagine for a lot of Leafs fans, they have a very similar story. And I imagine for a lot of Leafs fans, they have a very similar story. But I was just finishing, or just finished high school at the time when the Leafs went on their ill-fated drive with Wendell Clark and Doug Gilmore. They were playing the Kings in the semifinals. It was all set up for the big matchup against the Montreal Canadiens in the Stanley Cup final.

They were on the verge of winning that series going into game six. And at that time in my life, I was young enough, I think that, I mean, I'm still a giant Leafs fan, but I was young enough that it seemed like vitally important. And I was also at that time in my life where the high school friends you've had for a long time are starting to move in different directions, do different things.

And a bunch of my high school friends and I, a crew of us who had always gone to my friend's cottage for high school weekends, went to his cottage to watch the last game, as it turned out, last two games of that series. And that was the same year, I think, that this album had just come out. And for that whole weekend, we just listened to this song,

like almost literally on repeat, just again and again and again. And in between periods, we would crank it up. And it was almost like we thought that this ritualistic invocation of the memory of Bill Borilko, as told by the Tragically Hip, with all of us sort of singing along, listening, would summon something, right? That we were actually going to influence the outcome of this game, both through the strength of our dedication, but also through the power of this music, the power of this Leafs history that is being so well told here, and in such a good song.

And of course, everybody, I'm sure almost all your listeners know that Gretzky high sticked Doug Gilmore when he should have been in the penalty box. He scored that goal. The Leafs lost that game. They wound up losing game seven. That was the end of it. I remember that weekend, too, after they lost, just being in tears the end of it. I remember that weekend too after they lost just being in tears. All of us.

There was a couple of girls, a bunch of guys, and just... And it's cliched. If I wrote it as a short story, people would say that I was trying too hard to pull out all these white bread Canadian elements. But Gord Downie's

voice and that story about the Leafs and that Gilmore Gretzky series and Wasaga Beach and my group of friends sort of having what would turn out to be like one of our last hurrahs together and having it end in tears

and this maybe you know, cliched observation that things aren't working out the way you planned them all the time, it's still, that's all there for me every time I hear that song. So, do I hear you right? You were graduating high school in 93? Is that what I'm hearing?

I had just graduated high school. I was, yeah. Because I graduated high school in 93. Yeah, so I think I might be a year older than you, actually, because it was a group of my high school friends, but I think we were just towards the end or had just finished our first year of university. Only 10?

I threw in that. I know. I was hoping maybe you didn't catch that. If I had more hair. I'm kidding. I get lost in your eyes every time you visit. But oh man, that's my band. That song I love. It spun me off into this Bill Borilko obsession where I wrote back before everybody had a blog or whatever. I wrote a Bill

Borilko page on my site that ranked number one for his name for many years in the late 90s and early 2000s. In 2002, as an intern, I believe, at iWeekly, or maybe it was early 2003, I wrote a piece about what if the Leafs won, which it turned out there was no need to contemplate that quite yet. But for an illustration for it, we sent a photographer to photograph Bill Borilko's gravestone, and that was the main image.

Is that in Timmins? I think so. I think it's in Timmins, yeah. Yeah. Man, I always say he's like our buddy Holly, the whole Bill Borilko story, but I love that story.

There's an episode, if anyone wants to hear more about Bill Borilko, there's an episode of Toronto Mic'd with Kevin Shea where we basically just talk Borilko

the whole time because he's a hockey historian. So, yeah, amazing. Love that jam. And let's kick out another one. Oh, yeah, change of pace. So this is Tori Amos covering Leonard Cohen. I like where I'm living

There's music on Clinton Street All through the evening I hear that you're building Your little house Deep in the desert You're living for nothing now Hope you're keeping some kind of record Yes, and Jane came by with a lock of your hair

She said that you gave it to her On the night that you planned to go clear Did you ever go clear? Clear Did you ever go clear Last time I saw you you look so much older famous blue raincoat Torn at the shoulder When I've been to the station I was introduced to this song by this cover.

And the part that's just coming up, I almost... I almost... You treated my woman To a flame of your light That when she came back She was nobody's wife Well, I see you There with a rose in your tea There with a rose in your tea One more thin gypsy

I see your jeans away So, I just want to listen to the whole thing. She sends her rigor Her voice and her piano playing, her piano line on this song, her voice and her piano playing her piano line on this song but her playing in general I'm just a big fan of

I could listen to her sing anything almost but I was also I kind of thought I was already a Leonard Cohen fan I had in Pump Up the Volume he plays Everybody Knows, and I knew that,

and then I bought The Future when it came out, around the time I was old enough, you know, it was in university. Then I bought Stranger Music, the collected poems and lyrics, and I'd read one of his novels, but I hadn't really dug any deeper.

And then I heard this song. What can I tell you, my brother? And her voice, like, gave me chills. The combination of the lyrics. Have you ever come by here For Jane or for me Your enemy is sleeping And his woman is free Well, thanks for the trouble you took

That little whisper is so good. Dear Christ, I thought it was there For good, so I never tried And Jane came by With a yoke of your hair She said that you gave it to her On the night that you planned to go clear Sincerely, Al Cohen

So I had Tower of Song, the Leonard Cohen tribute album, given to me, I think, and I thought, oh, this is cool, because I'm kind of a Leonard Cohen fan. I was not a fan, but I was like, I had read some of his poetry by then. I had one album. I knew a couple other songs, you know, radio songs. And this is cool. And I put it on, and that song played,

if I'm remembering right, it's like midway through the album. And I just played it like 20 times. I didn't even know what was on the rest of the album at that point. And then I got out my guitar, which I'm a really piss-poor guitar player, but taught myself how to play it on the guitar. And I used to sing it and play it. And that, I think, really sent me back into Leonard Cohen's back catalog to really dig into his earlier stuff.

And I actually love his version of that song. And I love so much of Leonard Cohen's stuff. I mean, Hallelujah, everybody loves. But Chelsea Hotel to me and Sisters of Mercy, the melody lines, not just the lyrics, but the melody lines are almost perfect, like unexpected and yet inevitable. But the emotional depth of Tori Amos singing that song just stuck with me and still sticks with me,

and I have an emotional reaction. I was, you know, I was like almost shaking here, listening to it again here. I had quite the crush on Tori Amos. Yeah. Man. Yeah, I mean, Tori Amos, yeah, yeah. Like that whole era of the Corn Flake Girl.

And the one i like she did a cover like in the maybe early 90s i think she did a cover of smells like teen spirit oh yeah i remember that remember this yeah and they would play it sometimes they'd play it on cfny they'd play it and i had to get a hold of that it's like what the heck is that but yeah i remember i think she played cornflake girl on sat Night Live, which, you know, maybe the first time I ever saw what she looked like.

Well, she's called A Late Sneeze, right? So in love with her voice. Yeah. And then seeing her sing and the way she plays her piano, the way she holds herself

and the way she strikes the keys, standing up almost like an old Jerry Lewis throwback. It just made me love her all the more. And there are certain women singers

whose voices just stop me in my tracks. I mean, I actually am a big Sinead O'Connor fan. Remember Linger by the Cranberries? Before Zombie was a monster. Of course. That came on and that little accent and the way she sang. I just used to tell people, like, if I ever meet a woman whose voice sounds like,

or who can make me feel like this voice makes me sound when this is on the radio, I'm going to propose right away. Dolores O'Riordan. Yeah. And so, but the combination in that particular song of her voice and it being her, as well as those lyrics by Leonard Cohen, I just think is magic. Again, it sounded so amazing in the headphones. You're right, she's got this great restraint to her voice and then she brings it down to a whisper and we're just quietly clinging to every syllable. It's just like a heavenly religious experience.

There was this earlier chapter in my life where I used to write poetry specifically so I could go out and read it at open mic nights and stuff. Because I was trying to figure out how to become a writer, and there weren't a lot that I could tell, like easy opportunities to share my writing with people without getting published first, and yet these open night nights were one so but but and then at one of them I wound up playing That cover and and I sang it almost the way she does I have a different voice than her obviously but the the

Rhythm and the the kind of the ups and downs of the intonations were very similar to her version because that's how I taught myself to play it. And I'm a terrible guitar player, as I said, and a mediocre singer probably, but somebody from the audience came up and said, I think that's even better than Leonard Cohen's arrangement. And it was meant as a giant compliment to me, except I had stolen that arrangement from Tori Amos.

And if they had actually heard her sing it instead of me, then they would have thought it was a cheap insult stolen that arrangement from Tori Amos. And if they had actually heard her sing it instead of me, then they would have thought it was a cheap insult. And now for something completely different. Completely different. Let's kick out another jam. I specifically asked for this intro to be included because I feel like it's like the build-up. It's like he says,

and then they do. You know what's funny? I would never consider playing it without that. Like to me, this song doesn't exist without that. It's an essential part of the song, right? This is from my personal collection, and of course, yeah. So, you know, you didn't have to worry about that one. I remember the from my personal collection and of course, yeah, so, you know, you didn't have to worry about that one.

I remember that the radio edit used to just start with him shouting hit it, but... We're going to be dancing again, Ed. i wanna rock right now i'm rob bason i came to get down i'm not internationally known but i'm known to rock the microphone because i get stupid i mean outrageous stay away from me

if you're contagious cause i'm the winner you're not a loser to be an mc is what i choose a lady we're almost 30 years later and i still walk around rapping this song to myself. My kids will always say, it's that I want to rock right now song. That's great. You know what? Yeah, I'm the same way. With rap songs I loved in the late 80s, I drop those rhymes.

My oldest is almost 16, and he'll tell you that. That's your backbone slide. That for sure. Public Enemy, I have it on the wall here. But I drop lines from Bring the Noise all the time how low can you go that's one of them

yeah see I I was living in Scarborough when this came out I was going to high school I cardinaled in high school

and I I actually already was sort of a hip hop fan not like a big head but like I had like run the MC even earlier

like Malay Mel like around the time those Break earlier, like Malay Mel, like around the time those Breaking movie came out, I was in elementary school and we really got into that stuff. But,

and I, you know, I had, but It Takes a Nation of Millions and just loved it. But this, this sort of hip house,

it's like, it was like a different, it's still, if you ask me, I like the, the best dance floor banger. Like, can't argue with that, man.

This came out and it was everywhere that summer. Like, everywhere. And, and these guys at my high school, we would have a high school dance and everybody would get in a big circle and there were these dance crews, like Filipino guys, black guys,

the odd white guy, but not too many of them. But they would dance to this song, have these dancing contests, and it was amazing. And I went and bought the 12-inch single of this, which is actually just the single, but it's 12 inches because it's a DJ version with an instrumental in the back. And I almost wore out the grooves at home playing it and dancing in my basement, doing the running man and these splits moves

and trying to learn to dance to it in a way that I could do in public, which I still haven't to this day. I love that, man. I did very similar things, man. Holy smokes. And you're right. We once splurged in our high... I went to Michael Power High School

and we went splurge for a video dance party. Yeah. And I can't remember if it was for much music. It might have been much music or something. I can't remember. I think we had that at one point. Yeah, and I still remember this jam. Like, when this jam was played, like...

And they had another hit. It was never... Join Pain. But they played that one, too. And that would get people out of the was never as good as Join Pain, but they played that one too. And that would get people out of the dance floor too, Join Pain. Here comes the famous bleep. But that breakbeat, that James Brown sample, I mean, it stands up. Like 30 years later, and you can still put it in track today.

I think it's still being put in tracks today. It is still, yeah. And not just hip-hop tracks, too. It shows up in, like, pop songs and, yeah, rock songs. I love this jam, man. I'm so glad. Which one has passed away? Raw bass or T.J. Easy Rock?

I think it's Easy Rock who's passed away. I was on News Talk when he passed away, when the news came out, and I shared it on the air, and I don't know if the listeners there felt the same way about it as I did. All right, now. Easy Rock, now.

When I count to three, I want you to get busy. You ready now? One, two, three. Get loose now. Get next to the, I want you to get busy. You ready now? One, two, three, get loose now. But it's, I mean, it's just, again, this is a song that I would play when I was DJing and it would still fill the dance floor, and people would love it. And Let Your Backbone Slide has that effect on Toronto crowds anyway,

because they remember it so fondly. But just such a great, great song. And again, it came along at a period in my life, too, where it could be formative. And I mean, I think, and like I say, I didn't want to situate it as like, it wasn't my introduction to hipate it as like it's not it wasn't my introduction to hip-hop and it wasn't actually even when i fell in love with hip-hop uh i i bought uh it takes a nation of millions and and i had that on tape and i played it and played

until the cassette machine ate it and then i went and bought another copy of it um and at one point we used to uh have this like radio quote-unquote radio show at my school where before the morning bell, a couple of us would play records. That's cool. And we got kicked off for playing NWA. Oh, no. I get a story like that, too, man. Well, we had played Respect Yourself, or Express Yourself.

Oh, the Express, okay. The NWA version, and it's clean, right? It was their radio single. Yeah. Or Express Yourself. Oh, Express Yourself. Okay. The NWA version. Right. And it's clean, right? It was their radio single. Yeah. And so it went over okay. So then when we played

Straight Outta Compton, though, that was the end. That was where we... But like I say, that sort of hip house revolution, like that as a song in my high school years to dance to.

Yeah. That's it. That's the song. Since we're the same vintage i could tell you another big jam uh when you mentioned the groups that would dance and stuff was the humpty dance okay so yeah i remember that there was a they had this whole choreographed thing to the humpty dance stop what you're doing because i'm about to ruin yeah just they just went and i was really into the digital underground for a while i had had the 12-inch to do what you like.

And it had that great extended dance part. It was like, if you're listening to this at a block party, continue. Otherwise, fade out. Anyway, that's where Tupac was first. Not on that jam, but on a... What was that? All Around the World. Same song.

That's like the major label debut of Tupac Shakur is on that same song with Digital Underground. Huh. Fun fact for you right there. I did not know that. I mean, they're not on my list. I'm not even going to bother giving a list of runners up because it would be a 50 songs long. But like Scenario by Tribe Called Quest

was the other high school jam. I drop that with my kids all the time, too. Again, though, too, that's a song where I literally jump up and down dancing because it's like I can't not. And a lot, like Humpty Dance and stuff, I don't feel like those hits actually aged all that well. When I hear them now, there's novelty value. Bust a Move, right, which is still a fun song,

but it sounds dated to me. And yet, while they may be dated in terms of like if you're listening to current hip-hop, which is still a fun song, but it sounds dated to me. And yet, while they may be dated in terms of like, if you're listening to current hip-hop, they don't fit into the scene, at the same time, I feel like both It Takes Two and a very different scenario are songs where when they come back, they transport me back to that time. I don't feel like they're dated at all. If anything, I feel like I need to be there with them when they're still brand new. That scenario, I have like I need to be there with them when they're still brand new. That scenario,

I have it all memorized still. That's one of the jams I'll drop all the time around the kids. I'll drop a line from Scenario. Like, yo, Bo knows this and Bo knows that, but I don't know Jack. Bo can't rap, so what do you know? Who's that brown? But you gotta

explain the reference to them. The two are like... It's like watching The Simpsons where the references But you gotta explain the reference to them. It's like watching The Simpsons where the references are a way to learn about the culture before. And everything I learned about Citizen Kane growing up was from The Simpsons. Yeah.

You gotta come back. We just talked Simpsons. We could talk old school hip hop all day, but let's kick out your seventh jam. You say you want a revolution. Well, you know, we all want to change the world You tell me that it's evolution

Well, you know So you got that great guitar sound in one ear, the drums in the other ear. And the sonic scream. It's just like the sonic scream. But when you talk about destruction And the sonic scream. Just like the song you just sang. That scream. It's got so much of... So much of what you want from a Beatles song into this song.

Ringo's drumming there. And, you know, underappreciated, but the changes being really important at certain points. He just set an old tone. That unmistakable guitar tone. John's voice. The harmonies. The little jokes.

And yet Again I chose this song Not because it was like I've been a huge Beatles fan Since like I was in kindergarten And we would get up in the morning And listen to Rubber Soul

And my brother and I would try to choose from the photos on the back which one we were. And then sing along. And then all through high school and everything. The thing about a band, so much of the Beatles, obviously,

is like, I think appropriately rated. But if it's possible, then it would be overrated or overplayed. It's so familiar now that the magic is worn off a lot of those songs for me that would have been my favorites at certain points in time. And yet again, this is a song that I can still play in a bar or at home, and it feels fresh to me, right?

It still rocks, which is why I choose this rather than any number of other Beatles songs that have meant more to me at different points in my life. It's possible I would have chosen the medley from the second side of Abbey Road as an alternate, but... And then the piano just going crazy. I believe it's Billy Preston playing the piano there. These all rights make the song. Like it's not the same song if we didn't have this. All right! All right! All right!

Now that's a jam right there. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And it's, like I say, I feel like it still feels fresh to me every time I hear it. What's remarkable is that, you know, you and I, we were not alive when the beatles were a band but uh the beatles they show up more often than any other band and this is probably not a shock to anybody but any and when we kick out these jams you know we have the spreadsheet and we track all of this so i can tell you definitively the beatles are number one in terms of uh number of songs and it's a tragically hit number two yeah that's right yeah i mean i i would have thought maybe the tragically hip would would be number one but but yeah that's right. Yeah. I mean, I would have thought maybe the Tragically Hip would be number one.

But yeah, I mean, it's unsurprising because I think, I mean, because of everything that the Beatles are, right? But also they are such a range of styles or different types of songs that they have that a lot of different people will choose different tracks. That's the thing, too. I think very rarely do we get the same Beatles jam. Yeah. There's so many different number one Beatles get the same Beatles jam. Yeah. There's so many different number one Beatles songs, depending on your tastes. Absolutely.

Did anybody do Revolution before? Yeah, I think this is... Yes! I believe this is the second Revolution, but this might be the first repeat, maybe, of a Beatles track, and they've shown up like eight or nine or ten times. So, great jam. Thank you. Yeah, and I would have done the medley from the second side of Abbey Road,

except that it doesn't feel like one jam to me. I mean, it's one jam, but it's multiple songs on the track. Okay, this is a great debate, right? Whenever you see those ranking the greatest Beatles songs, they do lump those together, but I always feel that's unfair. Like, they are different songs.

Yeah, and that's exactly it. I mean, they're listed as separate songs. They. That's exactly it. They're listed as separate songs. They were written as snippets. They were not written to be one big song. They just jammed them together because they had all these odds and ends that they couldn't use otherwise. But they work so well together. I would never listen to

just she came in through the bathroom window and cut it off at the ends of it. It's of a piece with everything else, but I also feel like it would be cheating to try and say that's one jam. And I wouldn't want to take up my whole list with it. Right.

Is it four songs? Well, there's two medleys on there, but I'd have to look at the album to remember. I'd have to get a ruling. This would have to go to the tribunal or whatever for a ruling. Can Edward pick this? Let's kick out your eighth jam.

Another change of pace. Baby staring at the radio, staying up all night I'm pimping, eat shrimp, and running my legs Just before I lift it Got a race at the Mardi Gras, I'm jumping on the floats My man MCA's got a beer like a billy goat It's the disco car, MCA, I'm getting broke, y'all Routine and the rhyme And I be busting routines and rhymes all night Like eating burgers and chicken and you be picking your nose, man

I'm one time homie, that's how it goes You heard my style, I think you missed the point I feel like for people of a certain age, our age, ill communication and check your head are the epic beastie boys at the top of Mount Rushmore or whatever you want but Paul's Boutique for me was like I bought my accident well not by accident

hold on but just this song first of all all these little samples the Hurricane Got Cloud the Hurricane Got Clown the like all the changes in it

and of course the Beastie Boys doing their thing finishing each other's sentences trading off rhymes like Run DMC did and it was kind of a and then the rhymes themselves

that's I will It was kind of a... And then the rhymes themselves. That's... I will still walk up to people, kids I coach, and say, is your name Michael Diamond? And they never know what to say. But just... This is bananas. I love this track, and to me, it sums up so much about the Beastie Boys.

And also, like, they couldn't do this later. They probably didn't want to. But you could never legally make this song today. They say the exact same thing about It Takes a Nation of Millions. Now with the clearance of songs and the new regulations, you couldn't afford to put out this album. Yeah, no.

Like Fred Flintstone driving around a ball feet. Again, you could have the references that you gotta explain to your kids with Sam the Butcher and Alice. So this came out and it didn't make a big splash. This wasn't a big hit in my school. Your name Michael Diamond?

In Scarborough. But I had this gift certificate for A&A records and and I smoked and and I didn't have any money for cigarettes but I thought if I went and bought something cheap with the gift certificate I would get change and I could use that money to buy cigarettes and I get a record so I went to A&A's on Eglinton it was in the bare naked ladies lovers in a dangerous time change and I could use that money to buy cigarettes and I'd get a record. So I went to A&A's on Eglinton. It was in the Bare Naked Ladies, Lovers in a Dangerous Time thing. And I could walk to it.

It's a long walk, like 25 minutes, but I walked it from my house. And there was this Love American style EP, which is actually like a single of Shake Your Rump and Hey Ladies. And then extended mixed versions of both on one record. So I bought that and got my change for cigarettes and it actually worked. They didn't give me store credit, which is what I was worried about. But also then I went home and played it and then I just played it and played it and played it and I started talking about it with a good friend of mine, Mike. I was just like, started talking about it with a good friend of mine, Mike. I was just like, have you heard this? Because we all knew the Beastie Boys from License to Ill, but it had sort of like,

they had kind of fallen out of any of our consciousness by then. And especially, we listened to a lot of, you would never know this from my list, but at the time, like, I was listening to CFNY music, right? I was listening to the Smiths a lot, and, and The Cure, and, well, The Cult, who are a bit more rocking, but, you know, like, Beastie Boys were not on my radar anymore, and yet I bought this because I had heard something about it, and, and I loved it so much, and, and then I asked, and I was told, oh, yeah, it's, it's critically acclaimed, but it's kind of a disaster, So then I went and bought Paul's Boutique, and it's still one of my favorite albums of all time. And it started a love affair with the Beastie Boys that never sort of died down after them.

I've seen them live a bunch of times. Probably the band that I've seen live more than any others is actually not on my list, so I hope this isn't a spoiler. What band is that? Spoiler, but the lowest of the low. Other than Kevin Kline and the Mad Bastards. I know!

Finally I have somebody who will appreciate that. I was so excited. Bozy had them on her list too, right? Yeah, you know Bozy. She sang along to her jams too, which when I listen back, I really like. She's a great singer. She keeps winning Newspalooza.

She won the week after she came over. But yeah, Kevin Quain and the Mad Bastards I've probably seen more than anybody, but that's always in the front room of the Cameron House, right? And then Lowest of the Low I saw probably like eight or ten times in the 90s

when they were on their main run, not in their reunion. Well, yeah, yeah. Well, speaking of that real quick is that Stephen Stanley was over here recently, too. He was the founding

guitarist with, yeah, he's not in the band anymore. He's got a solo. Well, he's got the Stephen Stanley band is what he is with now. But yeah, that's,

I've seen them a bunch of times, too, most of them. And then the Beastie Boys I've seen a few times. Okay, my quick story on Paul's Boutique because it's, I've seen them a bunch of times too, Los de Lolo, yeah. And then the Beastie Boys I've seen a few times. Okay, my quick story on Paul's Boutique, because it's, I always, because I hear this all the time,

but I lived it differently, if that makes sense. So I was a big fan of the License to Ill, of course, like everybody. And you're right, a lot of time goes by, but then much music played the mess out of Hey Ladies. Like, I saw Hey Ladies video. It was just high rotation. And I watched a lot of much music at the time. of Hey Ladies. I saw Hey Ladies video. It was just high rotation. And I watched a lot of much music at the time.

And I loved Hey Ladies. And I had to pick up. And at the time, I was really into rap. Rock too, but rap. And I picked up Paul's Boutique. And Paul's Boutique, I thought, was fantastic right away. And then I learned in retrospect, years later, I discovered that, yes, people initially didn't like

Paul's Boutique. This is what I learned. But I had no idea. I was just ignorant to this fact because I thought it was fantastic. And you're seeing it on much music, right? So you think, oh yeah, this is huge. Yeah, and it's the Beastie Boys. And it was great. And I was coming, and in my memory I was very familiar with It Takes a Nation

of Millions to Hold Us Back, which has samples, like so much sampling. It's just layers and layers. And James Brown, like, oh, and it's layered. And the Bomb Squad are doing their thing or whatever. So I was sort of used to all these. I was so used to the sampling, like on steroids, if you will. And Paul's Boutique fit the mold perfectly.

Yeah, I know. It's just like sample after sample after sample. But the way, and in a song like Shake It Rump there, what amazes me and why it seems so perfect is because the Beastie Boys are such a manic, breakneck rappers in their upbeat numbers, not in their jams. And then their whole thing for so long was like cutting each other off rapid changes where they're constantly like you get one

voice and then another voice and then another voice and they're calling and responding things and and in on that whole album but especially in that song like the samples are doing that it's like it's like no verse has has the same instrumentation, but not even that. It starts in one place and it's a completely different song by the end of the line, right? And that just seems perfect for the Beastie Boys. One last coda to that particular song is that it became a thing almost by accident that feels almost obligatory to us now where like my cousin Adam, I think, was the first of our sort of crew in my family to get married. And maybe it was at that wedding reception or maybe it was at my brother's

wedding. But I can't remember early on when we were still in our 20s, but getting old enough that some of us were starting to get married, that came on at the wedding reception and we all started dancing like crazy, right? And having fun, but we started just by improvising, sort of doing this really slow motion butt shake, move to that... And then people started telling us at future events at future events like well you guys got to

do that thing and it was like no no it wasn't a thing we were doing it was we were just dancing right yeah yeah uh and yet then like people in my extended family will like force us to like do that thing with your butt when that song comes on and it's like that's great you know which it's nice to have traditions but it's all, my final quote of them real quick is that my favorite Beastie Boys album of all time is Check Your Head. Yeah. Although I love Paul's Boutique.

That's probably number two. But Jimmy, I think my son, my oldest son is James and I'm 99.9% sure I had to name him James so I could call him Jimmy because of Jimmy James. So you could call him Jimmy James. Yeah. Absolutely. And I'm very envious that you saw them live so many times.

I was supposed to see them with Rage Against the Machine, and they canceled it because somebody separated their shoulder. Oh, shoot. And they canceled it. Anyway, I never saw them. I missed my window. I saw them at Palladium on the Danforth, which was a really fun, great show.

And that was on my birthday, and that was just when Check Your Head was coming out, which is why they were playing such a small venue, because it was like they were ready to explode again, but hadn't yet. Speaking of braps, I drop all the freaking time. So watch what you like, and pass the mic. I can do

pass the mic right now for you in its entirety. So what you want is my other favorite Beastie Boys song. Goodness gracious. Okay, buddy, you got a couple of jams coming out that I absolutely love.

I can't wait to get to them. I rearranged my pennant or my flag or whatever here because your ninth jam, I'm ready. There you go. Let's kick it.

I know Slash wrote this as a joke and he wound up hating it, but just listen to it. Everything about this part of the song is like, there's something epic coming. Get ready. Here it comes. here it comes here it comes She's got a smile that it seems to me Reminds me of childhood memories Where everything was as fresh as the bright blue sky This was... Now and then when I see her face

I mean, the thing is, this is one of those songs where it would have never been on my list at the time, right? Even within a few years of that. I mean, I think it's one of the perversities of history that I somehow thought Guns N' Roses wasn't cool enough. Whereas in retrospect, this album stands up better than almost anything from that era. than almost anything from that era. But when I heard this song on the radio, it was like instantly nostalgic. Like the emotion I felt with both the guitar here and Axl's voice and the imagery of the, you know,

the bluest eyes and the bluest skies and the... Poor guitar solos. If you were a CFNY guy at the time, you would dislike this, I think, because it wasn't a song they would play. It wasn't my style. Q107 was playing this. But I knew...

I mean, it was in the air. Like, I heard the song, and I used to sing it to myself doing this Axl Rose imitation all the time. And I'd almost, like almost make myself cry with this, oh, as a child, his hair is reminding me. And yet, for Axl, and this is probably what I love,

I love these anthems, these arena anthems. And yet this one has Stairway to Heaven or whatever, the slow then fast. And it's like the ballad that turns into a rocker. And yet it's this perfect transition too from the nostalgic, romantic mood of the ballady part to the frantic welcome to the jungle mood. Like the I'm lost, where do we go now at the end?

And it happens, actually, in the guitar solo, Slash is doing, where the whole mood of the song changes in the middle of a guitar line. And then just goes bananas. I love it so much. This is my anthem of choice.

It's not this guitar solo where it changes the connection. Oh, sweet child of mine Oh, sweet love of mine Oh, sweet child of mine. Oh, yeah. Oh, sweet love of mine. So there we go. There's like a buildup and a climax to the... And then this, man. There's the question, there's the pleading, right there.

Gotta kick this up. Where do we go? Where do we go now? Where do we go? Where do we go? Where do we go now? Where do we go? Where do we go? Where do we go? Where do we go now? I once sang this with a band, and had to learn perfectly, because at first I was thinking he's just improvising how the vocals break, and no, no, he's not. Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, aye, Where do we go now?

Where do we go? Where do we go now? Where do we go? Where do we go now? Where do we go? Where do we go now? Where do we go? Where do we go now? No, no, no, no, no, no, no No, no, no, no, no, no

Sweet child Sweet child Sweet child Of mine Of mine Of mine Of mine Of mine Holy fuck, Ed, I love that jam. You know, I love it so much.

I started playing that in bars, too. In the middle of a hip-hop set. And now I just put that on, and people will go nuts, and you kind of build up to it. And I mean, I just, it's a kind of song that I love that isn't otherwise represented on my list. But it's also, it's my favorite of those songs because it has a little bit of everything,

and it's like, and a perfect Guns N' Roses song. A little bit like teetering on the edge of ridiculous and yet magic at the same time. And I do love how it starts off talking about memories and it's so sweet, and then it winds off shouting, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, at a point where it's just going crazy

and can't figure out what to do. And it's built to such a monstrous crescendo that I just feel like it's just a great jam. One of my three favorite Guns N' Roses jams. Another, the tempo change

you mentioned, which I love too. I love the songs where you're slow and then you're fast. Sort of like the Led Zeppelin. Here's the stairway thing. Stairway thing going on. Patience by GNR. Oh, such a great song.

That song I can't get tired of either. So my three favorites really quick are Patience, Sweet Child of Mine, and I like Mr. Brownstone. Those are my three favorites. Yeah, and it's like this beautiful ballad, and it's so acoustic and sweet and everything. And then you think it's one way and it's the other and bam great and it holds up too not nearly enough arena rock songs that have whistling solos in them i heard it live uh last

month was that last month yeah uh like in october i i saw it at arena at acc i watched the guns and roses play for three and a half hours. That's amazing. Three and a half hours. Holy smokes. And you know what? I'm glad you're here. It's the end of November. What is it?

November 28th. On Saturday, Santa's going to do the Lakeshore Parade. Ah, the Lakeshore Parade up here in the neighborhood. Right. And my three-year-old is super psyched about this. It is the season. And it's coming. And this jam is seasonal,

but at the same time, I can listen to this jam in July and love it. I could, but I don't. In fact, I did listen to it this week because I knew I was coming on here and I was putting together my list and all of that. But I typically don't listen to this song until the beginning of December

because I don't want to ruin it for myself. We'll christen the season right here with it. Let's do it. My favorite song of the season. Let's kick out your final jam. It was Christmas Eve, babe In the drunk tank I'm sorry. The rare old mountains you I turned my face away And dreamed about you

Got on a lucky one Came in late into one I've got a feeling This year is for me So happy Christmas I love you baby

I can see a better time When all our dreams come true. Speaking of time changes and women's voices that I fall in love with. They got cars big as bars they got rivers of gold

but the windows right through you it's no place for the old When you first took my hand on a cold Christmas Eve You promised me Broadway was waiting for me You were handsome, you were pretty queen of New York City When the band finished playing, they held out for more Sinatra was swinging, all the junk they were singing We kissed on a corner, then danced through the night The boys of the N-word, Penny, Coyle, we're singing, go away, bye.

And the bells are ringing now for Christmas Day. It's just such a beautiful storytelling, beautiful music, perfect combination of voices if you ask me you're a bum, you're a punk you're an old slut and juggler and I almost died on a trip in that bed you scumbag, you mugger chick, chick, lousy faggot happy Christmas to your arse

I pray God it's out of love the boys in the NYPD chorus still singing, going black and the bells are ringing on for Christmas Day Well, so could anyone You took my dreams from me Well, so could anyone is a perfect name for a memoir, I think. I kept them with me, babe I put them with my own Can't make it out alone

I built my dreams around you The boys in the M.I.P.D. chorus will soon go away and the bells are ringing out for Christmas Day I love how their voices juxtaposition, if you will, of their two voices.

Perfect. Don't try to cover this. Sometimes you see people try to cover this song. Don't do that cover this. Sometimes you see people try to cover this song. Don't do that because this is perfect. Yeah, no, it's absolutely perfect. Almost all of it.

The instrumentation, the voices, the storyline. And I actually, I mean, you know I'm like a drunk, right? So I've spent a lot of time romanticizing, drinking and all of that. But I feel like,

and I always have felt like this this is a Great romance song because it's not all saccharine right because it's not all about we met and now we fall in love It's it's it's this longer story, and it's it's unresolved at the end if you ask me like I think it's still a It's got some romantic magic in it. It puts me in the feeling of Christmas, even though it's almost like... It's one of the most popular Christmas songs now, but it's like an anti-Christmas song. Yes.

Which is what we like about it. Yeah, no. And yet, it ends with that hopefulness, right? Like their relationship degenerates, and then at the end, they're almost like trying to talk it out there a little bit, right? Like, you know, he starts off by saying that he closed his eyes and dreamed about her, and then he winds up by saying he built his dreams around her.

And it's still dreaming, right? They're still singing. The boys from the NOAP choir are still singing. You know what? Galway Bay at the end of the song, and that melody carries the potential for something even more beautiful gaway bay at the end of the song and that melody carries the potential for for something even more beautiful and redeeming in the end and and it's just uh it's not just my my favorite christmas song it it may be uh my favorite song of all time

i really like how you bookended your uh your jams because we start with mr valentine's dead by kevin quain and we end with fairy tale of new york by Pogues with, uh, Christy McCall. And it's, uh, to me, the song, there's that, that Irish, that Irish kind of that unconventional voice. They both got, uh, Celtic, uh, melodies and instrumentation. They've both got a broken down voice from the man. Uh, and they both are about, uh, you know, hard living to some extent. No, absolutely. And I love them both too. That was great, man.

Yeah, well, thank you. Thank you. That was so much fun. Well, thank you because I know the critics will write me and say too many jam kickings. I say not enough jam kickings. These are the best. Isn't that fun? You can never get tired of kicking out the jams.

Do you know we did two hours? Yeah, well, it went by like nothing. Let's do another two. I just won't record it. We're going to kick it more. Stick around, okay? I'll just come up with ten more, yeah. And that brings us to the end of our 287th show.

You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Edward, as we call him in the Toronto Star, is at the Kenan Wire. By the way, there's a great Pogues track in the Wire. The Body of an American. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now that's like my, if I need a drinking song or whatever,

I go to the Body of an American. That's the one. It's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing. And our, who else do we have? Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Propertyinthe6.com is at Brian Gerstein. And Paytm is at Paytm Canada.

See you all next week.