Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ed Keenan: Toronto Mike'd #143

Episode Date: November 24, 2015

Mike chats with Toronto Star columnist Edward Keenan about his years writing for Eye Weekly, The Grid and The Toronto Star, Rob Ford, the Stockyards, his Newstalk 1010 radio show, @Norm on Twitter and more.

Welcome to episode 143 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything, often with a distinctly Toronto flavour. I'm Mike from TorontoMic.com and joining me this week is Toronto Star columnist Edward Keenan. Hi Mike. Welcome. Well, thanks for having me here. It's a great setup you got down here. Now you have to say that. That's the new thing that has to be said. It's a great setup you got down here. Now you have to say that. That's the new thing that has to be said. Is it a great setup coming down?

I think people expect the worst. Like, I'm just going to... Well, yeah, you kind of think that maybe there will be a little tape recorder in the center of a table somewhere. No, that's how Norm Wilner records his podcast. Exactly. So put it on the record. This is a much more professional setup than Norm Wilner.

Let the record show. May I call you Ed? Yeah, absolutely. When I was growing up, I was Eddie. And then there was a point in high school where everybody just starts calling you Ed, and it feels so grown up, and it's kind of great. And then there's a point where I had to decide

what my byline was going to be in the newspapers, and Edward seemed so much more serious than Ed, but everybody still calls me Ed. Edward is awfully serious. Yeah, well, you know, it's for the newspaper and everything. Did this guy ruin Eddie for you or did he make it better? No, Eddie Shaq, Eddie Olchek. Eddie has actually got a proud, proud history, right?

Whereas Ed, it's kind of more like Ed Grimley, Ed the Talking Horse. And the only other Ed I've ever had on this show, who is a sock. Right. Yeah. No, exactly. So maybe I should go back to Eddie. I once lined up outside the old Hockey Hall of Fame on the C&E grounds to get Ed Olchek's autograph. Yeah.

He was the best we had for a while. He was. After the sort of like Rick Vive, Gary Lehman years, then there was Ed Olchek. Yeah. He got us like that gap between like Rick Vive and Doug Gilmore. We had your Wendell Clark, of course, but Ed Olchek was your skilled kind of point

producer. That's how bad things were. Well, for a while, listen, this is how bad things were. Tom Fergus was like a prolific point producer for the Leafs for a short period of time. Can you fathom that? And then he had some mystery virus and disappeared on an island or something.

It was a great mystery that's never been solved. We just assumed... Because this was the great mystery that's never been solved. We just assumed, because this was the time of Rock Hudson and AIDS appears. We just assumed, at least in my schoolyard, where I went to school. That was the word. Tom Fergus has AIDS.

I'll just say it. That was the rumor, but I don't think it was AIDS. It turned out to probably not be true if your lawyers are listening. Allegedly, but I don't believe it to be true, but that's what we thought. Sources on the playground say.

Unlike Toronto Star journalists, I can get away with shit like that where you would have to have a caveat in there. Yeah, no. Allegedly, sources tell me. It might go beyond that in that case. Yeah. But we do have, unlike your podcast too, though, Allegedly, sources tell me. It might go beyond that in that case. Yeah.

But we do have, unlike your podcast too, though, the amazing thing about working at the Toronto Star is that they have this team of lawyers who work in the office. That's nice. On retainer all the time. So if you ever have a question, you just sort of get it immediately answered. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have those.

I'm allergic to lawyers. Hey, one commonality that we share before we get into the important things is that we both worked at the cne yeah so yeah which i imagine like lots of people did um no just us two i think my crack research staff is just a big operation for the two of us to run but we got her done us in the kernys the part of us to run, but we got her done. Us and the Kearneys. The Polar Express, the birthday game. I worked, when did I work there?

Let's see. I probably started working there in about 1986. I was 14 years old, I think. I was 13 years old. Okay. You were ahead of me, yeah. And then I worked there for a few years

at like a candy floss booth. And then I took a couple of years off. And then when I was in high school and right up until like my second year university, I think I worked at games there at a crown and anchor game and a birthday game. And there were a couple of years where I worked every single day open to close.

No, I worked for like independent. Yeah. Because I worked for an independent company called Astro Zodiac Enterprises. Astro Zodiac. I always remember that name. And I worked from 89 to 91, so the three summers. So I was like 15, 16, 17.

Yeah, my last year was probably 92, I think. So we were in the building at the same time. So we overlapped. I might have saw you in the foods. Because the shopsies had the thing in the food building where for a two... I don't know. They didn't have toonies back then, right? For $2, I could get...

Did they have toonies back then? Maybe. When did the toonies show up? Come on, Toronto Star guy. I'm trying to figure out and I'm actually trying to remember based on the game. I think toonies were brand new maybe in about 91, 92. I know Bart Simpson was brand

new because that was the hot giveaway at our game booth. Pop a ball. People would stab you for a Bart Simpson. But that was, see, the beauty of working at a game at the X, at least the games I was working at, was that you got to talk into a microphone all day. Yeah, me too.

So it was like this radio DJ fantasy where you're like, hey, hey, hey, exhibition day, come on over. You got to get in here to win here. Just a buck to try your luck. How about it? And a lot of the people I worked with were all like, I don't want to do that. And I was like, please give it to me.

If the Polar Express would have been the better gig, because you get to actually play music, and really be a real-time DJ. I was across from the Polar Express. So every night, as they closed, the last song the Polar Express would play would be What a Wonderful World by Louis Armstrong. Right.

So every night, because it was 20 days back then, and i would work all 20 days and every night i'd close the game booth and what a wonderful world and then the darkness and this beautiful night it was magical time yeah it was a lot of fun i still love it actually there were a few years because the last couple years i worked there i worked every day open to close every day and uh and then i i didn't go for a few years but when I hooked up with my wife Rebecca we started going back and now we take our kids and it's like I've fallen back in love with it. The Midway at night

is just amazing, right? I took a long break after working there and then I came back with my kids and rediscovered what I loved about the place. Kids are interesting that way. How old are your kids? I have three kids.

The oldest is nine and the youngest is four. And then the one in between is seven. Okay, I have three kids. The oldest is almost 14 and the youngest is like 20 months. Oh, wow. But a fourth is on the way in March. How about that? Two baby mamas, though.

So you're not even sleeping through the night with a 20-month-old and you've got another one on the way. Oh, no, but he's the best sleeper ever. How about that? Two baby mamas though. So you're not even sleeping through the night with a 20 month old and you got another one. Oh no, but he's the best sleeper ever. Oh yeah? Like 8 to 8 with no noise or anything. Like he goes down at 8 like happy and then I wake him up actually at 7.30 to take him to daycare. Well maybe if I get a fourth all order one from you.

You seem to know how to do the sleeping thing. Yeah, we get to sleep train him early. That's the trick. But okay, you get to sleep train them early. That's the trick. Okay, you're a busy guy. Now, we often joke on Twitter, often being twice, I think, but this is a Tuesday, and I spend my Tuesday nights at George Bell Arena.

Yeah, I used to have a Tuesday night skate at George Bell, and then we moved to the MasterCard Center. Now, this year, my knees are all screwed up, so I'm not actually skating this year. But I have two kids who play at George Bell, and I coach both their teams. Yeah, Kate, I'm missing you because my boy's almost 14, so I'm on a different time slot than you.

But yeah, my boy plays house league at George Bell. Yeah, my kids are still on Saturdays and Sundays. My son plays on Saturdays. My daughter plays on Sundays. Which is better, by the way. It sucked moving to Tuesday nights, and it's late Tuesday, too. I loved the Saturday. My son plays on Saturdays. My daughter plays on Sundays. Which is better, by the way. It sucked moving to Tuesday nights. And it's late Tuesday, too. I loved the Saturday. It used to be Saturday forever.

And it would be part of my routine. Get up, get your coffee, go to the hockey game. I loved it on Saturdays. Yeah, and you kind of spend a weekend day in the arena. It feels good. Yeah, I love it. Now it sucks because this game tonight, for example, is 9.20. And it's like, I'm going to be tired.

I'm tired. And it ends at like 10.20 or whatever. A late night. And I'm like, Daddy's sleepy. They don't even keep the snack bar open, right? No, no way. You know, there's that one missed in George Bell Arena, which, by the way, was not named after a former left fielder,

George Bell. No, I know. This was the big disappointment of my life was to find out that it wasn't named after. That is an old white guy. They got a picture of him in the lobby. Yeah. An old white guy

with the horn-rimmed glasses. He looks like a typical 1960s white guy. Which is, it's amazing to think that there have been two really significant George Bells

in Toronto history. Yeah. Our first MVP and then that other guy they named the arena after. And the guy they named the arena after never... He did not say...

He's the one who did not say, kiss my purple ass. Yeah, I was trying to think of a kiss my purple ass joke originally. Because, you know, I still... It's a sort of prayer that you say when you enter the arena. That's right. I do that too. You know, you and I are similar, man.

We got the CNE thing. We both do the George Bell prayer. The George Bell thing. The prayer. Purple ass prayer. the arena that's right i do that too you know you and i are similar man we got the cne thing we both do the george bell prayer purple ass prayer that's funny i miss that you know now like you know that goodwill at uh run a meet and riding yeah i miss the big rocking chair like that used to be a woodworking place and they had a big rocking chair up there and i used that was like a landmark in that neck of the woods no i know and it but i don't know there's something about that i'm trying to like on the spot to think of like some great symbolic thing that that rocking chair represented but there are these like places

landmarks in the city that are like cheese ball local retail landmarks that gradually disappear and it is kind of sad that one is especially the giant rocking chair i i just liked knowing it was there like and you know you saw it once a week you'd see it at least once a week but how often did you go there and buy a rocking chair i mean this is really the question in my previous marriage we oh you did yeah no that rocking chair the bed came from there the uh there. The handmade wooden bed that would last. It lasted longer than the marriage, but it's still going, I'm sure. Quality merchandise. It's still going.

It was the heaviest wood. They came and they installed it in the room. If that house gets sold, that bed has to go with the home. I wonder if they sold off that rocking chair to somebody else. Like a giant? Yeah. Oh, yeah, a giant who needed a rocking chair. Maybe to somebody else. Like a giant? Yeah. Oh, yeah. A giant who needed a rocking chair.

Or maybe they just donated it to a giant in need. Or I was just thinking maybe there's a rocking chair store in the American South somewhere who was like, oh, no, yeah, we'll buy it. And then bought it on eBay or something. Remember the friendly giant would put out the rocking chairs for the little people? Yeah. He needs one, too. Yeah.

That was my favorite part of that show. Here's a little chair for you. And an armchair for two to snuggle up in. Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah. See, we have that in common too, friendly giant memories.

Jerome was the giraffe. I'm trying to remember the giraffe. And then there was another little guy who came with Jerome, right? I think so. I don't know. Friendly giant was fantastic. But they did have those little chairs.

That's the one thing they had for sure. Yeah. That's how you knew how big he was because he could hold those little chairs. Yeah, and now he's got a chair from the whatever that would work. Anyways, now it's a good will. Riding Avenue chair is in whatever retirement home for Friendly Giant. Okay, speaking of one quick note, I know we have important things to get to,

but now that we're talking about essentially the stockyards, we're close to the stockyards at George Bell Arena. Do you know that the, that target in the stockyards, which is the only target in the city that was actually built to be a target. Yeah. Every other target like took over a Zellers or something. And we actually used to shop at that,

that target fairly regularly. I wasn't all that excited when Target announced they were coming to Canada. But I was kind of disappointed when they announced they were leaving Canada. First of all, because our malls are now pockmarked with these giant vacancies. Yeah. But also because we used to actually go to that Target because we live within walking distance of the stockyards there. But yeah, there is a new tenant announced for at least half of that square footage, I think.

What's the name of this? It's a supermarket, right? I saw a picture on Twitter. And it's like an international foods supermarket. And it's called, well, you know. You brought it up, so you must know what it's called. I subscribed to a newsletter called 1236. Yes.

It was in there today. Yeah. So if you have that, of course you have that in your inbox. My wife had mentioned to me that there was a supermarket going in there the other day, and she told me about it. It's called Nation Foods or something? Nation something. That sounds right.

I never heard of it until I saw this picture. But I don't have the newsletter handy i opened my phone to be like i like i would uh but i actually they linked to me in this today's episode of 1236 that's how important i am i'm linked there from the there was a hits fm uh popular dj got like go in the bell Media sweep. Well, I mean, you're a very good, I think, you provide a valuable service in the Toronto media scene in sort of like giving the radio scoop

especially. A valuable free service. Just to give back to the community. So, this is part of the show where we plug the you got a Kickstarter or something, or a Patreon, where people then kick in their money, this valuable free service. What would you pay for that? the show where we plug the, you got a Kickstarter or something, or a Patreon, where people then, yeah,

kick in their money, this valuable free service. I actually, what would you pay for that? It's priceless. We'll get back to our excellent programming in just a moment. Oh, like the,

yeah, what's her name, man? She retired, and there was Goldie. Remember WNED? Yeah, the PBS in Buffalo.

what's her last name? Goldie. Her name was Goldie, and I just remember she was on that thing. The telethon host. Yeah, she was the telethon host forever when I was growing up. Great programming like Masterpiece Theater. It just doesn't come free, and you can't get this on commercial television. It's like Goldie.

And we have a great tote bag for your books. A Fawlty Towers tote bag or something like that. So there are operators standing by, rows and rows of people at telephones, typically. I mentioned to Norm, I used to know things right away. Now I can only see her as Goldie, and I've lost her last name. It's in there, and I can't pull it out.

He said it's because when you hit 40, that's just what happens. It's just like your brain just does that. Goldie something. I know there's Google everywhere. Google is literally in five places I could reach right now. I refuse to Google it.

Here's the thing. Listeners to your podcast can... It's like a homework assignment that they can go and Google it and find it on YouTube and relive the WNED telethons of our youth. Right, and tweet it at me and you could be in a draw to win a prize. Asterisk, not really. Goldie something.

Because this doesn't pay. And it's not Goldie Gaynor, even though that's the only name in my head. The thing about that supermarket going in at the Stockyards is that it's kind of great news. I mean, the Stockyards has been a bit slow in coming. That mall, I'm not sure they got the format right. There's a lot of parking in the middle of it, and the spots aren't entirely full. I feel like I need to park at the McDonald's

and cross the street. It's so intimidating. But so there's a new supermarket going in where Target used to be, which is great because it fills the space there, and a massive space. But there's also a new, I think, organic garage is an organic supermarket that's going in

where the old silos are at the corner of Junction Road and Keele. And so that's going to occupy this giant space there, an organic super center. And then around the corner on Vine Avenue, just south of there, there's a proposal that's been along in the works to turn an old manufacturing facility that's there into the new home of the Sweet Potato Organic

Supermarket. And then there's already a No Frills around the corner and a Metro in the other half of the stockyards phase one. So we're lousy with supermarkets up in the junction. It is happening. And you're not even talking about the fresh coal. What you want is food. It's like some areas of the city have kind of a restaurant

district where it's where you go to find fine restaurants like the King Street Strip and all of that. We're going to be the supermarket destination. If you live in an area of the city and you want fine supermarket shopping, Yolanda Undas is your jam. And don't bury the lead,

which is that I used to play wall ball on Vine. I mean, okay, there was a... Right by the train tracks, there was a box. It was literally like stuck out of the ground. It was like a box and we painted the box on it for the train tracks. There was a box. It was literally like stuck out of the ground. It was like a box, and we painted the box on it for the strike zone. And we played a lot of wall ball. I believe so, too. I'm going to check, because I go to the Vine Avenue Park up near the train tracks almost every day with my kids.

So I'll check if your box is still there. So you called that game, you played that with bats, right? Yep. See, we called it Burby in the East End where I grew up. It's an East End thing. The East York Cuneos, which is my wife's family, like my father-in-law. Do you know Pete Cuneo? I don't, which is odd because it's not that common a last name.

Although you have to spell it. C-U-N-E-O. Yeah, I think there's a G in my name. Okay. spell it because my thing c-u-n-e-o yeah i think there's a g in my okay uh they mike cuneo says that up in east york he grew up calling that game french we always called it we played in a we played a james colnan for example yeah and runnymede uh which which is on jane which i never understood because the runnymede high school is on jane we've had a lot of spots king george yeah it was a common george is great because the home run wall there

is just... It's close enough that you can hit several home runs in a game, but far enough away that it's not. That was our favorite place, King George.

I've played at James Clunan and King George as an adult. Oh, yeah? I got back into it a few years ago because I had a brother-in-law who was still a teenager and then he and I... and this is how we got into this Burby French whatever.

And he and I started playing and then I had some other friends that I grew up with or that I went to high school with in Scarborough who were living downtown and they started playing. And then we found these guys on Facebook who were organizing what they called the Burby World Series, which was this wall ball, like grown men

from all over the city. And I think now, if people want to Google it, they have like the Toronto Burby League, and there's like a Scarborough team and a Tobacco team and a Junction team or whatever. I don't play now. I'm in retirement. Although, you know, if a team needs an ace...

I used to play with my Catelli bat that I got free from Exhibition Stadium. I never heard this Burby statement. We had an alternate name. We always called it Wall Ball, but sometimes we called it Box. It was just called Box. But I've never heard this Burby thing. The essential piece of infrastructure that you need is that box drawn on the wall with an X in the middle of it. That is essential.

And I played with all the, the, the Maltese guys from, because this area we're describing is like little, there's more Maltese in that area than in Malta. I think. No, I actually,

I'm trying to remember Sean McAuliffe, who's a friend of mine and a Toronto writer. And he, when I was editing iWeekly and he wrote a column for us, he wrote a bit, a lot about little Malta because he's Maltese. And I think there is a thing where there's like more Maltese in Canada than there are in Malta.

I've heard something like that. But my old neighbor was, and like I said, my buddy Joe Cheney who played with box with me every weekend, was Maltese. It was just everywhere. Yeah. The pastitsis, they would get the six and six. Yeah, there's still the Malta bake shop there

where you can still get the pistitsies, and they're still good. All right, should I start recording? All right. Anytime. We could just, you know. I don't care. It's my show.

What do I care? I want to talk to you, though. You mentioned iWeekly. So what did you do before you joined iWeekly, and how did you end up with iWeekly? What did you do before you joined iWeekly, and how did you end up with iWeekly? Well, I did quite a few things before I joined iWeekly, although I wasn't working as a journalist before I joined iWeekly.

So I went to Ryerson and studied journalism and dropped out after a couple of years. And then I briefly, like for a year, was the editor of this privately owned waste management trade magazine. And when they hired me, it was called Waste Business Magazine. Most of the subscribers were in the United States, and they mostly worked for remediation companies. Well, you'll remember. Yeah, like the wastewater treatment facility processes in the new millennium. Tony Soprano subscribed. And then it was rebranded as Environmental Waste Reporter.

And then it was bought by these crazy con artists who like, there was this giant Ponzi scheme. Like it would have to be a whole episode of itself. But they bought like 120 companies in Toronto within a couple months. And they were all like these vendor take back mortgages where they give you a $10,000 down payment, and if they miss a balloon payment, you take the company back. But then they would collect all the accounts receivable and then just not pay anyone or pay for anything.

Oh, man. And then the company just collapses under its own weight. So that got shut down, and then I was unemployed for a long time, and I did a few different things. I was like an office administrator. I tried being a door- door salesman. I was a telemarketer. I, I, I did a bunch of different things. And then I wound up running a restaurant on Yonge Street for a little while called Casa Cafe. It was like across from the Toronto Reference Library. And it was the place

to get coffee across from the Toronto Reference Library. But with my brother and my aunt, I wound up buying that restaurant and then managing it for a couple of years. And when we had lost our shirts at that, I was a cook for several years after that. And so immediately before I went to iWeekly, I was the sous chef at Tarot Grill on Queen West, which is now, what's there now la palette i think uh great open kitchen nice long bar like jazz music exposed brick it was a great place to be an alcoholic like you work there and then go to the bar and just drink long into the night at half price um and then there was a point though uh where i had been working there for a couple of years and i had been cooking for for longer than that um when i was just getting married and i said to rebecca like you know i never wanted to be a cook i still don't want to be a cook and she said then don't be one

uh good advice so so i took an unpaid internship at i weekly uh And at the end of that, I got hired, well, quote unquote hired, I got a freelance contract for the title of staff writer, where I was paid $400 a week to produce like an insane amount of copy. But in a lot of ways, that was a really great reintroduction, like a great sort of launching pad into the world of Toronto journalism because I would write like theater previews and art exhibition notes and editorials about federal environmental policy and then cover a meeting at City Hall

all in the same issue. And so I was sort of just like at large in Toronto writing about stuff. And then I finally actually got hired on Staff Staff as an editor at iWeekly after that. And then I was there for quite a while. You were a senior editor. I was.

So what happened in the nature of um some uh media organizations there were like waves of like cost cutting and downsizing and so what kept happening uh was that like the editor in charge which was originally like the editor-in-chief uh would leave under whatever circumstances and they would not appoint a new editor-in-chief. Now the top editing job would be managing editor. And then that kept happening. So there was a point where I was essentially the head editor at iWeekly,

but my title was senior editor. Yeah, but I mean, that was a fun job too, but it was a very difficult time to be doing that job because we had no money. Like my first day sort of running the editorial department, I don't even know it was my first day, but certainly in my first week or first month after I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll take that job.

That's great. It was like sort of like, okay, so we just have to cut our freelance budget by one-third. And given that the paper was probably 70% or 80% freelance written, that's a devastating cut to make. And so it was a tough time, but it was still a lot of fun. So tell me, because you were there when iWeekly becomes the grid. So what does that entail other than just a rebrand?

Is that essentially all that ends up being? Well, I mean, in a lot of ways, it depends on how you look at it. In the end, by the time i time i weekly turned into the grid uh there were only i think two or three of the i weekly staff still there um and again a small percentage of the contributors carried over uh some of the sensibilities were the same but the you know when laws turnbull got hired to sort of take over and reinvent i weekly and he arrived on his first day and he he had sort of put everything on the table like i don't know what we're going to call it i don't know if we're going to still be weekly or bi-weekly or daily or what uh but but a name change wasn't initially announced as like a core part of a core

part of it but uh an attitude change like an entire sort of overhaul of what we did and how we did it was sort of announced as part of it and of course as part of that i sort of uh had a chat with them early on and we decided together, which was like, hallelujah, from my perspective, that I was just going to focus on writing. And I still, I was a senior editor there. My title stayed the same. But it's like Michael Lewis said of being a senior editor at the New Republic, where I'm senior to no one and I edit nothing. It was very much like that at the grid, where I was, you know, part of these meetings where we would talk about ideas. I was sort of, as a member of the editorial

staff, like constantly often consulted about things. My advice was sought. I would brainstorm with people, but I wasn't day-to-day assigning anything and editing anything. I was focused on writing. But to get back to your question, because I'm not trying to dodge it, essentially he hired immediately Leanne George, who he'd worked with before, who's a really great editor. She's in charge of Chatelaine now. She's the editor-in-chief of Chatelaine.

And David Fielding, who came over from the report on business. He's a great packaging guy. And they immediately started trying to get the staff at iWeekly to shake things up make changes and all of that but in the meantime I think Laws was both you know anecdotally talking to people and running some kind of like market research or whatever and the conclusion that I internally and from my own wits both like from what I was communicated to me as a member of the staff

and also just from my own understanding having worked there a long time, was that iWeekly was very well defined in the marketplace, but it wasn't very well defined as anything except like the other now, right? There was Now Magazine and then there was I, and in people's minds, they were both really well-established brands

and almost interchangeable. Now, for those of us who worked there and for the real sort of media geeks in Toronto, it was like, well, radically different personalities and different people and all of that. But to most readers, they were just like, yeah, it's the thing with the concert listings that I pick up and it's got the hooker ads in the back.

Oh, yeah. Oh, no, the other one of those. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so the renaming, redesigning, and all of that was part of trying to say, you know, we're trying something different. We're trying to be something different than we've been. It's not just a sort of like a tweak.

And so that comes with a new name and a new logo. And I mean, I think in marketing speak, I think the branding of the grid was really successful. The business of the grid turned out to be less successful. At the time, this is the infamous Rob Ford era in Toronto. So I'm always curious when people who cover City Hall and city politics comes in, when the Rob Ford stuff is happening,

A, are you aware that this is a once-in-a-lifetime rollercoaster ride that is not normally seen by people doing what you do? Normally it's not that... Yeah, no. Normally City Hall is not that kind of beat at all. I mean, no one paid me to cover it, okay No one gave me a penny to cover the Rob Ford stuff But it's one of those things where you're living a movie

Like this is all a movie Yeah, and I was actually really aware of that at the time And you become increasingly more aware of it Like by the time Like it doesn't become a new normal What your listeners will immediately think of when you say Rob Ford and what everybody around the world thinks of

is the crack scandal, right? But I think there was this phenomenon even like two years before the crack scandal broke, Rob Ford was already like this riveting, crazy city hall story that everybody... It was like you just need to show up to work and things happen. And when you write about them,

everybody wants to read about them. Like this guy, he actually got thrown out of office by a judge before the crack scandal broke, right? Like people kind of forget that now. I wrote a book that was in large part about explaining Rob Ford before we ever knew he smoked crack. And so I think there was a sense at City Hall where we knew this was something like really different than the usual. And as a journalist, there were good and bad sides because on the one hand, many people become journalists.

Many people are attracted to City Hall as a beat because they legitimately to some extent care about the issues, so to speak. And there's this constant push-pull where it's like, how do I write about transit funding in a way that's not boring to people?

Or do I cover this fight at City Hall? And either way, those are often very boring stories for people. And yet Rob Ford meant that the fight at City Hall and all of that, his whole weight loss challenge, the drama with his brother, everything was suddenly like great copy. And readers wanted, desperately wanted to read about that, but that meant that there's all the less,

all the fewer opportunities to actually get into that boring but important stuff and try to figure out how to make it interesting because you didn't have to because there's this immediate, like, fire, right? This raging inferno at City Hall. And you can't not cover the inferno. And so part of the adjustment now that Rob Ford's gone is sort of like figuring out how to cover that beat again.

This is okay. So I'm just wondering, does it become, in some sense, does it start to become like the new normal? Like, post-Rob Ford, what is it like going back to the old beat? I guess you readjust and readapt, but I mean, you were literally like, I don't know how many eyeballs would be on,

but you were one of the sane voices that I would always turn to during the chaos of Rob Ford. Well, thanks for saying that. It's a true story. You were a must-read during all this. Passes through sanity. Like the eyeballs, and I don't know. No, no, and there were lots and lots of eyeballs.

Yeah, and you can't compete with that writing about like smart track or whatever no and and i think those are like different kinds of stories i mean i mean i think the the thing is is that rob ford was a big story he wasn't just a big story locally eventually he was like one of the most famous people in the world or most notorious people in the world like i i have in in the time since he left office i traveled to san francisco and in like bars there like people want to buy me drinks and sit all night and have me talk about rob ford because they've heard of this guy and they just can't believe it right they can't believe it's true uh and and and so there is like an adjustment going back to cover it but in a lot of of ways, it's as it should be.

It's like after you've – I was going to try and think of – the examples that spring to mind are in bad taste. But after you've lived through some kind of trauma, now that you're not an alcoholic anymore, now that you're sober and you're no longer sleeping in the street every night and waking up and wondering if you punched somebody in the face or if you burned your own house down or if you crashed your car or if you've been to jail, now that you're sober, is it an adjustment going back to a life where you actually know what's going to happen predictably day after day? And it's like, yes, but in some ways that's, it's a healthy kind of rebalancing. I know that's a good analogy. That makes sense. Now, with Rob Ford, I'm just a guy with a blog, okay?

And I was getting emails. This is before the crack stuff. Before the crack stuff. I was getting emails from people telling me, every day they see Rob Ford buying Mickeys at LCBOs and stuff like this. Do people know that this guy's, this is going up? I'm getting that.

I don't write about this, but I get these emails. But you would hear about it, yeah. And then a commenter on my blog named Rince. I don't know who Rince is. Not a great source. I know this, I know iWeekly or Grid. I know, I know. Rince, Rince.

I know him from your blog comment section from the height of the rock floor stuff. I mean, I wrote about it at length because I couldn't believe, in hindsight, the details he nails, like the old Italian grandma and the daughter's name and everything is there and he's talking about how he smokes

crack. And at the time, we all dismissed this guy as, this Rince guy as some anonymous liar. Like, what is he talking about? That Rob Ford smokes crack and then it doesn't come out until a long time later that Rince was right. Rince was right. So I just wonder, when you hear this stuff,

and I know you have journalistic standards, of course, you can't just run to the press, I got Rince. I don't know who he is. I don't know. But you must be aware that this is like a ticking time bomb at City Hall. Yeah.

I mean, I didn't know. I think varying people knew varying degrees of information, but it was sort of a well-established piece of gossip at City Hall that he had some kind of drinking problem, right? And it seemed at first like it was likely some kind of binge drinking problem because you'd hear this hear these things um but it's not like he was like falling down drunk that anybody could tell at city hall i mean part of it was that you had to like chase this guy down because he never published his agenda and you didn't know where he was going to turn up but i mean those kind of rumors existed and i had heard uh of course there was a globe and

mail story um about the ford family the ford brothers uh and their high school misadventures alleged and all of that right um that i i had heard from people who went to high school in etobicoke rumors of that sort for uh years but again it'd be like i'm coaching my kids t-ball team and they'd be like, oh, you work at City Hall, you write about Rob Ford. I went to high school with the Ford brothers and, uh, whoo boy, I could tell you some stories, right? Um, but at the same time, there was so much actually happening at City Hall that was like the, the transit fight and the budget cuts and, uh, conflict of interest trial and all of that stuff where it's sort of like, am I going to leave covering the politics and policy of City Hall for potentially weeks and months to try and investigate a rumor that like Rince put on a blog somewhere? And it's like, well, if that's true, we'll find out eventually, right?

And we did. And I mean, some people were chasing those things down, especially after the sort of the famous St. Patrick's Day, famous now, St. Patrick's Day story. But there were a lot of those kinds of little stories where even when you did get the goods, there's this question inside nude rooms where it's like a guy went out and got drunk in a bar

and nobody seems to be actually complaining about it like it's not like he punched somebody out or or anything like that so i mean is that something we report is that something that's newsworthy like are people politicians allowed to have a night where they drink too much? I mean, obviously, once it became a bigger story where, and this is how this reporting started with Robin Doolittle and whatnot, was that there were actually staff members saying this is interfering with his job. And that's when it became a news story. And the publication of that news story led to the people with the crack video coming forward and we realized how how deep this thing went because in never in a million years would you have ever imagined it would be as it would go to where it went right

like this you even you know there was no writing on the wall that this was going to blow up in such remarkable fashion no it's like frankly like, frankly, like, incredible. Like, the word incredible is used in a lot of contexts, but it actually seems right in this instance because it's hard to believe it's true. It's like that Anchorman, that meme of Anchorman, which is like, wow, like, I'm not even mad. Like, this is horrible stuff that really upset me, and it still upsets me, actually. At the same time, I always step back and it's like, wow, I'm not even mad. This is horrible stuff that really upset me

and it still upsets me, actually. At the same time, I always step back and I always like, wow, that happened. That's amazing. It's horrific. It's fascinating. Horrific and amazing. I mean, the thing is, as a writer,

and I got in trouble, there are people who I think generally have been long time readers of my writing who like and respect it but they hate it when I say and they let me know that they hate it when I say something like

that Rob Ford was great for my career but that also as a storyteller as a journalist, as a writer this is a really compelling story that I'm glad I got to cover. I don't think he was good for the city. I don't think there's a way to interpret it that way. I don't think this is the bright side of the Rob Ford story.

But as a writer, it's not just that there was this unfolding crap show, which was great for headlines and got lots of hits. It's just like if you grew up dreaming of being a novelist or a screenwriter right like this is a story that has a police and crime angle it's got drugs and and personal demons and addictions it's got uh politics it's got policy it's got a family uh psychodrama built right into it yeah it's got all this human stuff that makes for great stories is playing out in real life in a way that is is if you were writing a novel or a screenplay nobody would it would seem to contrive that you try to put these things together right and and now some of the worst possible conclusions uh that that people were drawing uh in the midst of it turned out it seems to to not be justified um but like when you're looking at it just so happens that the photo

that's offered as evidence of him smoking crack is like oh this guy got shot and then that guy got stabbed in prison and all of that stuff it's like the ties into the gang world right uh and the and the sort of like direct like one degree of separation from like public shootings that were newsworthy in their own right uh you know made it seem like like how big is this story how crazy can it possibly get? And now we know, I mean, the last code, well, maybe not the last chapter of the Rob Ford story in general. I mean, he's, he's ill with cancer now. And, and on a human level, like, I wish him no, no bad things, right? I wish him good health. But the the sandra lisi uh the extortion trial related to that crack video we we have a date for that trial and i imagine that's the the

postscript to the to that chapter of toronto history anyway how does it work when when that goes to trial do the police release the video yeah it likely we get to see this video at some point in 2016 if assuming if there's a plea bargain and it doesn't go to trial um uh we we may well never see the video uh and not i feel like i've seen it first of all i feel yeah it's been described so vividly so many times by so many people. And now... In your book, Some Great Idea. Good name. It's a long title.

It does. There's a long subtitle. Some Great Idea. Good Neighborhoods, Crazy Politics, and the Invention of Toronto. And in this book, you explore Toronto's history and identity crisis in the years since amalgamation. So first question I have on that real quickly is, your thoughts on rob ford since writing that book changed because you were kind of uh not soft but you were uh well i mean obviously my understanding of him as a human being and as a politician has evolved since then, right? Like I understand more now than I did then.

We have a – not just me, but we all have a fuller picture of what was going on in his life and maybe what had gone on before in his life. Like the saturation coverage and saturation reporting on Rob Ford's life after the crack scandal meant that everybody got a much more detailed picture of what he was all about. I mean at a certain point I lost patience with him, right? And I was close to that while I was writing the book or before I wrote the book and I would always go back and forth. But I think the thing is is that the sympathy I had for Rob Ford at the time and to some extent still have and I think it's similar to what John Fillion,

the city councilor who wrote a book about Rob Ford, the source of his empathy is that, and you find this, he's surrounded by people who are trying to take care of him because on some level he is similar to like, I don't know, like a small wounded boy. He presents himself that way. He's perceived that way. He's not very smart. There's a lot that it doesn't seem like he legitimately understands.

And the more you get to know him, you don't get any sense that it's just like a communication barrier or something, that there are untold depths to his intellect that we haven't seen. He's got like a certain instinct for communicating with people. But he's not particularly smart. He comes from a certain kind of family. But to me, there's not a big contradiction between having some kind of empathy for somebody and also thinking that according to their own worldview, they believe they're doing good things, but also

thinking that they're sort of a narcissist on a big level who's been enabled by a lot of people who should know better and who is a radically destructive force in the city, and especially as the mayor of the city. I don't think that those two things are, or those multiple things, are in contradiction with each other, right? It's weird to me, it remains weird to this day, that he managed to become mayor of Toronto, given everything about him. He's a great overachiever.

He sure is. He's the opposite of Bart Simpson. Yeah, and there is still a really loyal cult following that he has, right? Like his Ford Nation. Those rabid supporters are still out there. Have you ever been to one of those Ford Fests? that he has, right? Yeah, Ford Nation. Ford Nation is... Those rabid supporters are still out there. Have you ever been to one of those Ford Fests? I have been to several of them.

I went to Ford Fest in his mother's backyard, and then I've been to a couple in public parks. Is it a lot like a gathering of the Juggalos? Not that you've been to one. It's not really. It's not really. I've read about gatherings of the juggalos and i've seen some video uh i saw maybe we saw the same documentary yeah but um

but no no it's nothing like that i mean the the truth is is that it's like uh going to like a church bazaar or something it's a it's a crowd of people who uh you know to some extent look like a cross-section of Toronto people that you'd find at the mall or the supermarket or whatever. And at Ford Fest, they're having a good time. They're eating hamburgers, they're drinking beer or pop or whatever. And, you know, there's a band that plays, and it's like a street party. And, I mean, talking to people, they're friendly enough.

But when you talk to them about politics, it's like listening to Rob Ford talk about politics. It's like talking points, right? Yeah, like bumper stickers. I said this to somebody at one point after going to the Ford Fest in Scarborough and recording interviews with a bunch of people there where I was legitimately trying to ask them questions

about what they really liked about Rob ford and why they still supported him and this was after the crack scandal right right and it was just like ford talking points right but expressed like earnestly heartfelt expressions of these people's opinions just happen to be the four talking points. And it's like, I don't know. But no, yeah, it's not like the juggalos where there was like, there are no bizarre rituals or anything like that other than lining up to buy bobbleheads, you know?

Or Faygo. Whatever that is. Hey, I got to close a little bit. That's a mystery where some people have to Google it. Oh, I know. They like Faygo. Yeah. All right.

Okay, I got to close this loop on iWeekly because iWeekly got us down the road. I realize I could easily talk to you about Rob Ford for like three or four hours. You probably have things you got to do at some point. Yeah. Eventually, I got to go back to work or whatever or go home and see my kids.

Yeah, right. iWe go back to work or whatever or go home and see my kids. Yeah, right. iWeekly becomes the grid and then the grid is gone. The grid has been shuttered. Yeah. Why was the grid shuttered and how did that leave Ed Keenan? Well, the grid was shuttered after about four years, I think, of publishing because it became clear that it was not going to become profitable. And now that that may sound obvious, but it was like, there was a business plan. And that business plan had been revised several times. And that business plan had been revised several times. But from my understanding of it, and I wasn't involved in the day revenue uh that it was part of the mix but that this was this is like in in the sort of the marketing

business talk it's like this magazine and the web enterprise that that it goes with it is establishing a brand relationship with readers and then then that brand relationship can produce revenue in different ways, especially through events, things like Toronto Cocktail Week and Burger Week and all of that. And then on top of that, we were working on things like mobile apps for special editorial sections that then the back end of those apps would be licensed out to other people who could use them and then late in the game there was also a branded content strategy that never actually got deployed but was like a part of it so the point though at the end of it was that no matter how you, the advertising part of that mix,

say like to be profitable, we need advertising to be like 40% of our total revenue and we'll be fine. And then at the end of the year, it would be like, well, we had projected to get it up to 30%, but it's only 10%, right? And then, you know, there would always be some explanation for why advertising revenue was falling more than expected, which would be, oh, it was a bad quarter and blah, blah, blah. But then the next quarter, the next year would be that much worse. So basically, ad revenue, and it wasn't just the grid.

It was like across the industry the industry was way underperforming what everybody's worst expectations were. The most modest projections, it was worse than that. And the other elements of the pieces of the pie were never going to produce enough revenue to sustain this enterprise. And so as soon as they came to that conclusion, we basically got no real notice that it was shutting down.

We used to ship on Wednesday at about noon. We would send it physically to the printer, the print edition. And so that happened, And there was immediately a meeting where we were told that was the last issue. Good luck. That sucks. Yeah. And it did suck.

But I mean, I was fairly sure pretty quickly actually that it was going to be okay for me. Like there's never a good day when something you've worked hard on that you were pretty proud of with a team of people who you enjoyed coming in to see every day.

Like workplaces are not all like that. And so it is like a terrible day that it got shut down. But I had people reaching out to me that very day to say we should get together and talk about opportunities. And for somebody who does what I do and who had especially covered Rob Ford so much, the middle of an election campaign when Rob Ford is running for reelection is the best time to become unemployed because it's it I I don't know that I'll ever be more in demand than I was that's true at that point um

and so uh I was also I I do uh I'm a you know a weekend and fill-in host at News Talk 1010 and I was in the middle of filling in for Jim Richards, who was on vacation that week. So I actually left that meeting at the grid and went on the air at Newstalk 1010 like an hour and a half later, and these callers came in to abuse me for talking about it. Like, it was a crappy paper.

I'm glad it's gone. Why don't you move on to a real subject? Because Britt, the producer, had convinced me to open the show talking about it. But they had, at Newstalk 1010, there were other shifts throughout the summer that I could pick up. So you know, it was not a crisis for me. For some of my colleagues, who of course got severance packages and whatnot, and most of them did land on their feet and are in really good, exciting jobs now.

But there was a bit more uncertainty. And so I kind of like felt a certain sympathy with that. But there was also this relief of having people, like as soon as the word went out that the grid had shut down that day, I was getting email messages and Twitter texts and stuff saying like, let's talk. Like, don't take a new job before you've talked to me. And it's sort of like, well, that's amazing.

Yeah, that's great. So I suspect that I'm going to be paid back in karma in some terrible way down the road. And so you work for the Toronto Star. I do. I do. Of those Let's talk messages um i mean i i weekly was owned by tor star and the grid was owned by tor star right uh and and so in many ways it was a natural evolution that i sort of stay with the company as opposed to taking a new job but also um i mean it was an exciting opportunity for me i mean it's was an exciting opportunity for me. I mean, it's still an exciting job for me.

Do you go into the One Young Street office? I do. I have a desk at One Young in the newsroom, and I go there most days, partly because I have three kids at home, and my house is a bit of chaos a lot of the time. And my wife works from home too, which means this office ain't big enough for the two of the time. Uh, and my wife works from home too, which means, you know, there's a, this, this office ain't big enough for the two of us, uh, uh, attitude. So, um, so some days I work from home. Some days I work from city hall. Uh, most, some days I work from like wherever in the

city I happen to be like a Starbucks somewhere, uh, or a Tim Hortons or, uh, you insert whatever brand of coffee you prefer, because I probably go there sometimes. But most days I go to One Young, at least for a few hours, and file from there, because in the hustle and bustle of the newsroom, there's actually relative peace and quiet to write. The fun fact for you is that my wife has a desk at One Young Street. Ah, yeah. She's there right now.

On the fifth floor? No, she's not at... She works for... There's a software company in there that has two floors. Oh, okay. 20-somethings. But yeah, so she goes in there Monday to Friday. All right. So I'm there a bit. Great gray brutalist masterpiece.

Yeah. You know, if you ever want to... Putting the brutal back in brutalism. Her office has a open bar. I could get you up there. This might be a bad idea, actually. Maybe this is a bad idea, but they also have cappuccinos there.

There you go. We can do that. There you go. We can do that. All right, so you're at the Channel Star, and you mentioned your gig at 1010. And you know what's funny? I try to time these things out

where we hit like an hour, but I failed miserably with you. I think we had too much Stockyard's chatter. That's probably it. Too much. Too much Tarjay and whatever. How long are we at now? 58 minutes. Although,

a good chunk of that might be cut out at some point before you heard. No, well, that's what I was just saying. There may be that edit, and I think actually there likely is. The edit that shall never be named. Alright, so at 1010, which is owned by Bell Media. So my first question is, what's the mood like? So first of all, let me set the table.

You have a show on 1010. I have a Sunday night show for an hour at 10 o'clock p.m. every Sunday night. And I have for, I don't even remember exactly, probably two years now. And then I'm a panelist on the morning show once a week and uh and then i do fill in work again when people go on vacation but i have a regular show sunday nights yeah all right my first question is uh what's the mood like there right now post um bell media cuts and i know that station particular station which is news talk 10 10 wasn't hit i don't think it was hit that hard from what I only know.

I don't know a lot about the behind-the-scenes people. I think... Yeah, I mean... A couple of people. Mike Toth, for example, who is coming in here later. I mean, and I think you should ask him about it, but I'm not

there often enough to really feel comfortable talking about the mood or even the politics. And it's not actually because I'm afraid of blowback. It's because there's just a lot that I don't know. Like, I go in Sunday nights and I go in for the panel, and everybody there has always been very friendly

to me and very nice, but I'm not ingrained enough in the team to actually know the details of that kind of stuff. and very nice, but I, I'm not ingrained enough in the team to actually know, uh, the details of that kind of stuff. I mean, I, I think,

uh, you know, obviously it's never a good day when, when, when, when people lose their jobs, but, and you,

you know, I think still, still everybody's plugging along there from what I can tell. And just, you know, day to day. So it's a workplace where people kind of have their head down and work hard, right? Like is my sense of it.

Yeah, Ben Dixon demands it. I hear he's a sleep driver. Is that what you hear? I don't know. He's ticked at me about this Amber Giro interview I did. I had Amber Giro on and he didn't like it,

but it's Amber Giro he didn't like, not me. So anyway, anyways, enough about that. By the way, Siobhan Morris, who works at 1010, one and he didn't like it but it's amber giro he didn't like not me so i'm anyway anyways enough about that by the way siobhan morris uh who works at 1010 told me that i would he told me she told me i would love you did she yeah oh well that's that's interesting i wonder if that says more about you or about siobhan or about me siobhan and i'm here to tell siobhan if she's listening that i do love edward he's fantastic. I've enjoyed this very much. Absolutely.

Hey, you don't have to answer this because it's kind of a dick question. Sure. But there's a perception, because I talk to a lot of radio people, but there's a perception that weekend hosts don't get compensated very well. You can tell me, screw you, Mike, because that's a dick question. Yeah, no, I mean, I think it probably varies from host to host. I have no particular complaints about my compensation. And if I did, I would take them up with the people in a position to do something about it. Because this is the forum to have that discussion.

But, I mean, I think, yeah, maybe I shouldn't have started answering that. I'll just say what I hear. For me, it's a side gig, right? And I'm happy with the compensation arrangement of it as a side gig. And I don't really know the details of other people's compensation there. But I mean, my sense is that radio is not that lucrative.

Except at the CBC. And Derringer. He makes a lot of money. Does he? I hear. It was in the paper somewhere. Oh, and Aaron Davis, and Marilyn and Rick. Not Rick, because he's gone, but Roger, Rick, and Marilyn.

I have to do that. Roger, Ashby, and Marilyn are probably doing okay. Here's the sense I get, and this is not an intimate knowledge of radio, but I think we hear sometimes too in the newspaper business, there'll be this big thing about like, oh, Christy Blatchford makes how much or whatever. And I think like in any industry,

the marquee attractions make an outsized amount compared to the rank and file. I mean, even when you look at a really lucrative industry like professional baseball, where the worst player in the league is a member of the 1%. Right, right. But still, the starting pitcher, the ace of the staff, makes like 25 times that or something, right? And I think likely radio is the same way, where this is sort of like the biggest names are on a different plane than the rank and file. Cool.

You probably know that as well as me. I know everything. Come on. I know everything. I'll tell you everything as soon as we stop recording know everything. Come on. I know everything. I'll tell you everything as soon as we stop recording, and then I'll open the big book and show you all the secrets. That's how it's supposed to happen. Share where the bodies are buried, too.

You're verified on Twitter. I am. That was a surprise. Yeah, I'm jealous. I know that's probably due to your Toronto Star affiliation. Yeah, I was not verified before I joined the Star. What happened, though, is when I got to the Star, there was a point where I asked them, too.

Like, am I supposed to be verified or whatever? Like, did I miss the verification fair? And I did when all the Star people got verified. And they said, oh, we put your name on a spreadsheet. And then Twitter Canada does something, and then periodically they just verify people. That's good information. So I got an email one day saying you're verified,

but I actually saw the email after I saw the checkmark on my account, and I actually saw the checkmark after people started tweeting me that there was a checkmark on my account. Congratulating you. So it's like there are other people who noticed well before I did. And yeah, the verified twitter user parties are good uh the verified car is a nice perk i saw it pull up into my driveway i'm like holy shit it's got a big blue bird on the top that's the one thing about it you can't get that bird to stop spinning around with the neon lights on.

Sorry to interrupt, but do you have any thoughts on the at-norm phenomenon? Am I the only one who doesn't love the at-norm thing? Maybe I'm the only one. I'm also the only one who didn't love Mad Max Fury Road, by the way. Those are the two things where I've gone in a different direction. I don't know. I don't really get it.

He's not tweeting. I think the thing is that he's an old man. Sure. And he got... I mean, Norm Kelly does have sort of a wry sense of humor in person. He is tweeting, at least some of the time. Is he?

Yeah. I don't know this for a fact. My speculation... That's the word you use, right? The lawyers like that word? I've seen him, yeah. I know there for a fact. My speculation, that's the word you use, right? The lawyers like that word? I've seen him, yeah. I know there's a lot of debate about whether he writes his own tweets.

I know he's... Have you ever been talking to him as tweets came out from him, and then you're like, how could you send that? You're right here. No, I haven't. I haven't.

But I mean, I don't got a lot of dirt on it. You don't care? But it's not like actually... I mean, his sort of... I mean, I don't got a lot of dirt on it. You don't care? But it's not like actually, I mean, his sort of, I mean, I don't know. His shtick? Yeah, I mean, he's got kind of a shtick. And obviously,

the affiliation with Drake now has become something. I mean, here's the thing, though. I think there's background to this where like Norm Kelly was sort of this long-time politician, long-time member of council. He was a Scarborough councillor, metro councillor,

way back before amalgamation. He'd been around forever. He was sort of a nondescript member of council. I don't even mean that as an insult to him. He was on David Miller's executive committee for a bit. Then he was on Robid miller's executive committee for a bit then he was on rob ford's right he was um and then i sort of like he he was appointed deputy mayor basically because of his experience and then when the whole rob ford thing happened he he got elevated so that deputy mayor became kind of uh like it finally meant something right

the other mayor uh and so he had a high profile role there and i think he displayed a certain amount of class and gravitas in that role uh but then sort of so he was already sort of like this focus of attention because of that and then once he was no longer in that role it's sort of like he started playing around and having fun and i think there's just this contrast between how people see him when they look at him or listen to him talk or see how he votes at city hall and this sort of like uh you know drake inspired this hip-hop mogul stuff uh and then i think that the joke has become all the more fun for people because Drake and others played along, right? And he's sort of been adopted then

by a certain part of the hip-hop community. And that's probably because it's like when you call a fat guy slim, right? It's like an ironic thing. Although they call him dad, right? Yes. Daddy. Yeah, and we're almost done here.

Don't worry. I know I'm gonna release you very soon no no no but Norm needs at Norm he needs two accounts right because

now that he's got this at Norm which is like a celebrity whatever like what was Constituent's tweet like I often tweet my guy no he's an actual

political business yeah but I think he yeah because he gets so many notifications you'd have to think he gets swamped you could never get

you could never get through the noise if you had, like, we need a bike lane here or whatever. Because I'll tweet periodically. I'll tweet at the counselor for this area. And, you know, I actually get replies and links to things and invitations to public meetings and things. Like, it's actually got a function. The ad norm, he needs two accounts.

One for the people who actually, you know, care about their counselor. And then one for, like, the guys who care about Drake. And one for people who actually, you know, care about their counselor. And then one for like the guys who care about Drake. And one for people who want to see his jokes. Right. Yeah. You want to see whatever his son-in-law is writing at the time. Yeah. Allegedly.

Sorry. Allegedly. Is that what you hear? That's what I'm hearing. All right. That's what I'm hearing. All right. I think he'd take exception to that, but you may be right.

I don't know. Well, he wouldn't deny it though. I've noticed he's very careful of his wording when he talks about it. He's very careful. He doesn't deny it. That's for sure. Almost like a politician. I'm not going to ask you about John Torrey's... He doesn't write tweets. He writes checks. Right. You know, this has been established

a long time ago in the hip-hop community. It's completely legit. That's right. He's charged up. I'm not going to ask you about John Torrey's smart track anymore. It's boring, and I'm not going to ask you about John Tory's smart track anymore. It's boring. And I'm not going to ask you how he's doing because Norm Wilner did a pretty good job of that last week. Did he? All right.

He did a pretty good job. So what do we need to know? I will say that. Yeah, he kind of nailed it there. I'm just going to say that the up to Pearson, I believe, is too expensive. I think $27 for one guy one way is too pricey. I do. I think it is.

I mean, God bless them. If they make a profit out of it, then that's great. I don't know. I was there the other day, and it's empty. And that's it. I've written a couple columns about this. And especially, there are stops at Weston and Bloor. And it seems to me that this is like a potentially useful commuter line for people coming

in to union station from those right and i wrote a column it's like cuts my travel time in half if i actually ride that but it cost me like 22 bucks a day or something like each way or it's like 17 each way or something um and and we spent a lot of public money to build this thing. Like this is transit infrastructure that we the people own and paid to build, right? And now the justification for those high prices is that these business travelers are going to take it and it will become profitable because of that.

Right. And that's the only defensible way for me that we would build a piece of infrastructure like that for the exclusive use of business travelers, right? Uh, is that they're, they're more than paying their own way and they're then subsidizing our other transit.

Cause in the meantime, in the meantime, we're losing a lot of money and we're subsidizing it. So why not make it cheaper? Let the people ride. That's all. In the meantime, we're losing a lot of money and we're subsidizing it. So why not make it cheaper? Let the people ride. That's all. Let them ride.

Let them ride. Somebody on Twitter wanted to know what you would do to keep David Price in Toronto. That's a question on Twitter. Yeah. There's this website out there where it's like people uh, people say what they would do to keep, uh, David Price in Toronto. And one guy is like, I'd get my mom to make them lasagna.

And other people are talking about buying seasons tickets and all of that. So I had tweeted that link to that out because it's kind of fun. Uh, and I think that same person who asked you to ask me this actually asked me directly on Twitter. And my response is kind of like that. I will continue watching the team and cheering for them and enjoying his pitching.

That's my commitment to David Price. I will cheer him on. I commit the same. Let's give a shout out to your wife, Rebecca, because she writes about parenting and culture blogs at Playground Confidential. That's right. And she's a regular writer for the Globe and Mail.

She writes for Today's Parent. And she's a really good writer, I think. And an excellent wife. Five stars. I recommend her. I've heard this about her. Great wife. But also, no, a dynamite writer.

And yeah, you've already plugged her website. She's on Twitter. Rebecca Cuneo Keenan. I think she's on twitter rebecca cuneo keenan uh i think she's at rebecca keenan though yeah cool now uh was this was this fun for you yeah are you glad you made the trip to the neck of the woods glad it was worth the drive to new toronto it's wonderful yeah thank you for coming my friend and i yeah i'm sorry if if uh there's gonna be this blank spot where we had to edit out. Well, I think the best part of the podcast will be us talking about

and everyone wondering what did we remove. Let's hope no thugs show up at my door with a gun. Tell me what you edited. We know you know. And then it's on you. Remember that. All right. Sleep in your beautiful junction home

alright and with my oversized rocking chair that I stole oh no that was yeah never mind oh I missed the rocking chair and that

that brings us to the end of our 143rd show you can follow me on Twitter at Toronto Mike and Edward is at The Kenan Wire

see you all next week You can follow me on Twitter at Toronto Mike and Edward is at the Keenan wire. See you all next week. and wander around and drink some goodness from a tin