Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ed Keenan: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1877

Episode Date: April 8, 2026

In this 1877th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with The Toronto Star's Ed Keenan about what's making waves in Toronto. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

Are you all, it'd be better if I could roll my R's. I'm Ed Keenan from the Toronto Star. Live in Toronto, this is Toronto mic. Live to tape in Toronto. And on the stream, right? It's on the live stream. Yeah. You know, I feel like I'd have to cut a check to that guy who Buffer, right?

Buffer owns the copyright. Who does he? And let's get ready to wrong. Yeah, yeah. Thanks a lot, Kenan. I don't have Toronto Star money over here. Takedown notice. Welcome to episode 1,877 of Toronto Mike.

An award-winning podcast proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at great lakes beer.com for free, local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga. Oakville. Visit palma pasta.com for more. Fusion Corpse. Oh, Nick Aeney's. Oh, I gotta tell you about Nick Aenees in a minute, Ed. All right.

He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline and Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recycle MyElectronics.cate.catech, committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home. pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today making his quarterly appearance on Toronto Mike. From the Toronto Star, his name is Ed Keenan. A week late and a few dollars short.

That's, you put it on my business cards. If we know nothing else, we know that you will visit the first Thursday of every quarter. Yeah. This is not a Thursday at all. Never mind. So what happened? Do you mind if I ask? Is this the second Wednesday of the quarter then?

This is the second Wednesday of the quarter. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, it's a stupidest thing because it wasn't just by Toronto-Miked quarterly appearance that got screwed up by this. It was another thing is that as you and I've discussed on the podcast here before, we don't really confer in advance about these things. It's typically what happens is I get a calendar notification that says, says you're on Toronto miced in an hour.

And then I go, oh, okay. And I get in my car. No, it's not that. I look ahead and I see, oh, on Thursday this week, I'm going to New Toronto. And then I plan that. And what happened is because the first Thursday, like, this hasn't really happened to me before. So I don't know why. But I was like looking at my calendar and you know how March ended in the middle of a week.

and April began in the, like on a Wednesday, I think, in Tuesday or Wednesday. Oh, yeah, it began on a Wednesday. So like in the week, the week before I was like looking and because of the way the calendar breaks, I was thinking that the first week of April was like a separate week. So it was like, I'm looking and I'm like, I'm on Toronto Mike next week. And also I'm hosting this buch glance at City Hall the week after that. And then I get this weird phone call from. Ken Greenberg, who's the author of the book, saying I wanted to talk because we're doing the book

launch on Tuesday. And I was like, uh, sure, okay, let's, let's talk about it. We used to have lots of time though. And then, and then you, uh, had, I, I, I didn't check my email over the weekend. But I tried, I tried your personal email and your Toronto story. Luckily, you were, you were, you were trying to reschedule me anyway. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been alerted at all in in advance that I was completely missing it because in my head, I was just thinking, oh, that's next week. Oh, that's next week. Why don't you check either email account? Like, I did give you, like a few days to check your personal account. I also emailed your work account. Like, do you-month? I do not check email at all on the weekend anymore. Okay, not even personal email.

No. Well, unless I have a reason to, like if I know that I'm expecting an email from somebody, because just otherwise because I don't have a weekend, like in my personal email account, which a lot of annoying contacts and publicists and people I've met over the years used for all my work stuff. Enough about me. I get hundreds of work-related emails. Right. And in my work, so the people who need to reach me for, like, work emergencies or, and then the people in my personal life have, like, they just send me a text message.

Well, can I tell the listenership, whatever? What I ended up doing? And so, yeah, you go ahead. Okay, so I didn't have, believe it or not, even though you. I didn't have your phone number. I didn't have your phone number. I went to FOTM, David Ryder. Good friend of the program, good friend of yours truly.

And I said, Mr. Ryder, I'm trying to. convey a message to Mr. Keenan. It's very time sensitive. I'd like him to come an hour early. I think I wanted to move it up an hour because I had to get to something that I'm going to talk to you about in a minute. I needed to get away to Woodbridge of all places. I was doing a, I was producing a live podcast recording, which I'm going to talk to you about in a bit. Anyway, David Ryder connected me with you and we settled all this and we pushed it. And I think we wasted 20 minutes on why you're here a week late. And I feel like nobody cares. Because I can't read my calendar app right. That's why. Gotcha. Here. Good. Good to see you right off the top, though. Mike Epple, you know the name Mike Epple? I'm going to put you on the spot here and you're embarrassed.

I'm going to tell you. Mike Eppel's on breakfast television and 680 News. Right. He's a business reporter. He's a lovely man and a diehard listener of Toronto Mike. He wanted to make sure I mentioned to you that he got what's called First Up. Yes. This is a, I'm going to read just a little bit of it.

It's by some guy named Edward Keene. Okay, handsome picture I see. Good morning. My name is Edward Keenan. Most people call me Ed. And beginning today, I'll be the host of first up. I've been writing about Toronto for more than 20 years. The last 12 is a star columnist.

I'm excited to be in your inbox every morning to connect you to the stars journalism. On with the show. And then there's six things to start your day. Tell us what's going on. They threw more work at you. This is why I am excited that we, had to delay this a week because I could tell you that as of this week, I'm the host of the first up morning newsletter.

And so I haven't been writing regular columns in the paper recently because I've been preparing for this. So it's a daily newsletter that has existed for a while that rounds up like the news of the day for the star. And I had been pitching and talking about various newsletter ideas because I'm I get a lot of my news now. I connect to my news organizations through newsletters at various other news outlets and things. And they take various different forms.

Some of them are almost like personal blogs and some of them are robot-created lists of headlines. But it's like it kind of comes to you, right, in the way that an old newspaper would be delivered to your front door. And so I had been talking to them about that and then they asked me if I wanted to take over the sort of flagship first-up newsletter. And so I am excited by the possibilities of how I can kind of communicate with people there. It's almost like a daily column, although, you know, as a sort of person bringing the front page to people, it's a bit different than a typical opinion column. But I think over the next few weeks and months, we're going to be experimenting a little bit with the format where I'll be doing, adding a bit more of my perspective and context on things, talking out a few of the stories that I think are interesting,

but in ways that's sort of like gradually move it away from the sort of like bare bones news thing that it had been to something that's a bit chatier and hopefully connecting with people. You're going to give us some personality. And then I'm hoping that the next time I'm here for the next quarterly one we'll be talking about the podcast that goes with it. But we... Well, that's my next question.

That's kind of in the works. It's something we're actively talking about in developing. But, you know, the Star's podcast studio, has a lot of balls in the air. They're actually literally rebuilding the studio right now to make some improvements to it. They're doing a lot of stuff with video. So, you know, one thing at a time.

Because one thing about this, first up, I'll tell you, though, is that the first one up has to get up very early. So the time stamp on this was 7.10 a.m. So is that like the time you... Sometime between 645 and 7 to set... Like, it gets sent between 645 and 7. it arrives in people's inboxes in, you know, 10 or 15 minutes after that.

There's hundreds of thousands of subscribers to this thing. And so if people are out there listening, this is actually like a really good, like I would love it if you would go and subscribe to this and, you know, check it out and let me know. There's an email address in there that people can. But the good thing about this for people who aren't already Toronto star subscribers is that you don't need to be a star subscriber to subscribe

or join the list to get this newsletter. And so, like, what I'm hoping is that I give you enough of the Star's news that, first of all, you know what you're doing today or you know what happened today. Right. But also that I'm giving you the reasons why it's worth your $1 for six months to get an introductory subscription to see more of that, right? Wow. Like, here, I've got my salesman hat on a little bit, but I think genuinely, like, part of what's

interesting to me is that, is that, you know, they've had a paywall up and a, a, pretty firm paywall for most people for a while at the star, which means a lot of people weren't, they would say to me, like outright, they're like, I would read your column, but I'm not a subscriber.

I'm not paying for that, right? It's like, okay, fine. Well, here's something I'm doing. You don't have to pay for.

It'll just come into your inbox. And if you see something that's interesting to you, you can pursue it further. And if not, you know, thanks for giving it a shot. Well, they've got the right man on the job,

as far as I'm concerned. That's you. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. And so, I mean, we'll see how it goes. I'm kind of interested. Like, uh, but, but do they pay you more money for this? Or this just goes in the, the bucket of Ed Keenan responsibilities?

This is just like in the bucket of egg Keenan responsibilities at this point. All right. Um, but, but it's also like there's a trade off of responsibilities, right? Like I was writing, you know, three or four city columns a week. I'm not doing that right now. And I may go back to contributing some columns or features or things to the paper, but, you know, once we get our legs under us with this. But it's not sort of like they added an extra job.

It's more like I shifted my focus for the next little while to this. Right. And then we'll see what the next stage looks like. And you're right. This is begging for a podcast companion. Like give us like, I don't know, give us like 10 to 15 minutes of Ed Keenan every weekday morning. Well, stay tuned. I'm tuned, brother.

I mean, so we're still working out the format and developing it and stuff, but I think that may not be too far off what we're planning. You can just read your fucking newsletter here, man. You can just be you reading the newsletter. You're up sending it out at 7 in the morning. You can just turn on a mic and talk through it. I want to hear like morning-boiced Keenan, like groggy, like sleepy Wilner. Shout out to Don Landry.

But, okay, congrats on this. First up, it's called. People should subscribe. You don't need to pay any money to subscribe to this email. We're all missing. We're all reeling because we don't get a 1236 email anymore. Maybe this will start scratching a bit of that itch. Who knows?

I mean, nobody can sit in for Mark Wiseblocks. Well, that's a different vibe. That's a different vibe. But it is a daily dose of something. So you mentioned in this little first up I was reading, you mentioned that you've been at the Toronto Star for 12 years as a star columnist. So you came from the grid. That's right.

But before the grid was the grid, it was I-weekly. That's right. So all of that time, all of those brands, all of those publications were under the Torstar umbrella. And so I've been working since 2003 for the company. But I was first a staff writer and then an editor and then the senior editor of I Weekly. And I was writing a column at that time. And then when it was the grid, I was a senior editor and columnist for the grid. and then when the grid folded,

I took a summer off and then came and I've been at the star now for 12 years. And then I spent three years of that 12 years of the star as the Washington Bureau Chief, of course. We've talked about that right a bit before. You covered the insurrection. We've covered that at length here. But the reason I bring up I Weekly is because I was hoping we could chat about a gentleman who passed away this past week.

William Burrell. How do we say the name wrong? Burrell. Yeah. I didn't know William Burrow very well, but I was a fan of his. And in fact, the reason I wanted to go, you know, before around the time I went to journalism school,

before I was even going to journalism school, he made me think that would be a really cool place to work. He was the founding editor of I Weekly, a proud sort of gonzo journalist. Yeah. He wrote a book about Hemingway. And so what I know of him, like a lot of people, loved working with him, thought he was a great guy.

Really fun writer. He used to do Trixie's Picks. He would have his dog be the football handicapper, right? So he would put out a couple, this was a feature in I Weekly, a couple dog treats, and he would say, this one is the Bills and this one is the Cowboys, and whichever one is dog ate, that would be his favorite, and he would tell you to bet on them that week.

He did a series of columns called like beer and loafing on the campaign trail. He ran for mayor at one point. on a... Like the first megacity election. Yeah. 97, I guess.

And wrote a book about Ernest Hemingway's years in Toronto. And then he had a career at the Toronto Star outside of that. But I think he always said at a certain point

that when they started it up, it was like an independent shop outside the Star, but he was still getting his paid his star union salary. Nice. And so at a certain point, they realized he was too expensive

to keep it up. I-weekly, so they called him home. You know, when I learned he had passed away, his nephew posted on Reddit. This is how I got the news. It's sort of a modern way to get the news of a figure like that, like a character in the city. Like I, as well, in the 90s, read a lot of William Burrell in I Weekly. And he was just like this cool character about town. But he seemingly, again, I don't know exactly what happened, but he seemingly dropped out of sight the last while.

Like, I out of sight out of mind, I suppose. but I got a note from a chap, not a note, it was a comment on my blog. So I wrote about Williams passing. And I got a nice note from William's sister. And we had a nice exchange. And then I got a note, a comment today from a dawn. I'm just going to read the Don comment. So this came in today, Toronto Mike.com.

I always wondered what happened to him after I Weekly ended. He was such a fantastic and humorous writer. And I used to wait for I to come out on Thursdays back in the day so I could go straight to his latest column. But sadly, after I, he seemed to stop writing completely. Over the years, I used to run a Google search on him every now and then to see if anything about his whereabouts or any new writings would turn up. Nothing ever did.

He seemed to vanish completely. I would love to know what he occupied himself with since I, he seemed like such an adventurous guy. I hope his life was not derailed by anything. Rest in peace, Bill, you were one of the best. And I just want to echo these sentiments in the sense that I don't know what he was up to lately. I regret, of course, as this often happens, somebody like this passes away. And I'm like, oh, I used to read him.

It was so important. Why didn't I find him and get him on Toronto mic so I could talk to him? I regret that. But I'm just sorry to his family and this great loss. And I just want to make sure that someone's remembering this institution. Like I Weekly in the 90s, you read William Burrell. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

And, I mean, he created I Weekly, right? He really, he literally did. He was the founding editor. Right. And sort of gave it its spirit. I think he was its personality. There were others, like Chris O'Connor used to write the indie music column, and Donald Lipchuk used to write the legendary necrophiles column.

Gone too soon as well. But he was the sort of founder of it. And I think I Weekly went through a lot of changes, but there was always a playful anarchic spirit. that we were trying to carry on that that came from him and certainly even the inspiration for some of my own early writing or the attitude I was trying to bring to my writing there. I'm a different guy. I have a different personality, but I was like trying to carry on some of that.

He was a real inspiration for me. And I don't have the answers to the questions that Dawn was asking there, but I echo all those sentiments that, you know, my heartfelt condolences to his family and to the city. And it's a shame we didn't hear more from him over the last decade or two, but the time he did spend sort of speaking to us through his column and his writing and all of that was like, I continue to treasure it. Absolutely. Okay.

Now, we mentioned he ran for mayor. I think he finished fifth, I think. Yeah. But I think there were like 23 people or 30 people running that time. So, you know, fifth is not terrible. No. And Ben Kerr finished fourth, I think. Okay.

So there's where you're at. But okay, but regardless. I mean, Benker wrote a hit song for... Oh, Chey and Pepper. Is that what it's about? K.M. Pepper Cotter. No, no, that was his own hit song. Okay.

He wrote a song called the Minabird Hop that was recorded by the Minabirds who were created as the house band at the Minabird Club in Yorkville. Oh, can I guess? It was owned. Owned. Okay. The club was owned by Don Kerr's brother. Ben Kerr's brother. Sorry.

and that's why he recorded his brother Ben to write the song, and it had in it The Mine of Birds. Okay, I'm going to guess Neil Young is in this band. Yes, he's one of the two subsequently very famous people who are in the band. I would say from Buffalo, New York, dodging the war. We have Rick James. Super freak, super freak. Yeah, Rick James.

Rick James and Neil Young were in a band together called The Miner Birds. They had a song that was not a hit called The Miner Bird Hop. They actually got a contract out of that at one point to go and record an album from Motown. Motown didn't release the record because they found out Rick James was wanted, basically. Like a draft doctor or whatever. But yeah, so in addition to everything else he did, Ben Kerr wrote that song. And he told me that when I interviewed him, like I was at the Ryerson University newspaper, the eye opener. It's now TMU.

but at the eye opener and I think I like wrote a thing about street performers and I interviewed Ben Kerr at the corner of Young and Blueer where he was performing and he was telling me all this stuff including oh I wrote this song

The Miner Bird Hop and it was like Neil Young and Rick James and I was like yeah yeah sure whatever grandpa time for your nap now tell me about running for mayor and then I have subsequently learned

all the details of that so it's kind of cool that's a great story Sorry, so you were talking about the mail or race. No, no, no, no. But if you have tangents like that, Ed, just do it, man. Like, that's the gold right there. I did not know that. That's a bit of a mind blow when it comes to Ben Kerr and those of a certain vintage.

Remember him well. The thing about Rick James and Neil Young in that band is they were roommates for a while. And I think, I'm trying to remember if it's Nicholas Jennings maybe, who's like a music journalist and historian. And I think recently had a post up about it with some details. I'm pretty sure that's where I encountered this recently to refresh my memory on it. But he had all of this about how Rick James and Neil Young were like roommates at the time. Like that's how they wound up in the band together. It's like they were crashing in the same Yorkville pad.

And it's just kind of a cool. That's cool. To like 60, 70s music history. Because you don't really think of them as being in the same musical category, right? Like from their hit Yeah, because Super Freak is not a Neil Young style folksy jam there. But I suppose this is just before Neil Young

gets in his hearse and drives to California and joins Buffalo Springfield. Yeah, absolutely just before that. Like I think he, I think, I think the end of the story goes something like. And, you know, before anybody does anything with this information or it gives it as an answer on jeopardy or something, go look it up and check.

But I think it's sort of like in the fallout from their Motown not releasing their record, the band kind of came apart. And so then Nick Neil Young, like, drives to California and then... And then for what it's worth. He joined, yeah, and then for what it's worth, exactly. So, and then he plays Woodstock.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I brought up that William Burrell ran for mayor because as we speak on April 8th, 2026. So, again, I learned this recently, the campaign for mayor the mayoral race doesn't technically begin until may 1st that's right you know this better than anybody so we're talking on april 8th only one person has actually publicly said they intend to run for mayor am i right like one notable person that that you and i have heard of yeah that's what i mean that's what i mean like and i'm trying to think now like there may have been one or two other people who indicated but they're not they're not anybody i had heard of before they said they were going to run for mayor right Right? So I think it's Brad Bradford,

counselor Brad Bradford, who has appeared on this program before. Well, I'm going to tell you a little story about Nick Aeney's in a moment that tells him. Yeah, yeah, okay. So he has declared that he's running. Mayor Olivia Chow is expected to run again, but hasn't said so. And outside of that, I mean, there was lots of speculation about other people, Michael Ford, like former federal and provincial politicians,

but they've all basically stood down and said, no, they weren't going to, even after John Torrey said he was not going to run. So stay tuned on that front. But interesting, this is the reason I wanted to make you earlier last Thursday when you were supposed to be in this basement, is because I had to tear down my studio and drive to Woodbridge, set it up,

and I had a speaker and everything, because I was going to produce a live podcast recording, which was Nick Iieny's. His podcast is called Bill. building Toronto Skyline and his special guest that evening, the aforementioned Brad Bradford. So I just found it all very interesting that there were some inquiries from the city to ensure it wasn't a fundraiser because we're not May 1st yet. Right, right.

So just keeping it like this is just like I was there. I saw Brad arrive. I saw him leave. You know, I recorded. Yeah. And then the money from ticket sales is this the same event? Because I was hearing some reporting about it. The one and only event I know of Brad Bradford.

in his campaign. It went to something else. Well, it went, maybe it went to me. I got to check my bank account. Nick Iini. It went to Fusion Corp and Toronto Mike's sponsor Nick Iini. So that conversation is, you know, publicly available.

I didn't edit a stitch of it, actually. It's all there. And you can hear the conversation between Nick Ionis and Brad Bradford. But I did see like a progress Toronto put on Instagram, like a snarky joke about like, oh, you can't find Brad Bradford in East York. But if you pay $250, you can chat. him up in Woodbridge, which I was honored to be a part of an event that had that kind of snark coming from Progress Toronto.

There you go. There you go. Progress Toronto, if you're listening, Mike would like a little bit more of that snark. I like it. I like it. I like that. So I didn't listen to that podcast, but was there any news out of it from your perspective? No, not new.

It's a lot about affordable housing and the missing middle and some things Brad wants to do if he becomes mayor. and I was not hired by Brad Bradford. My invoice went to Nick Aene's. He needed somebody to produce his live podcast recording, and I'm his podcast producer, so I got the gig. And I found it interesting, because I suppose I've been labeled a lefty in some circles,

and some people did seem disappointed. I would be a part of a Brad Bradford event. And I just found that interesting because I'm just trying to send four kids to university and pay a mortgage in Toronto. know, I don't think I need to say no to Brad Bradford events on some moral ground. So I was happy to take the gig. And it's always good to see Brad.

He's a diehard listener of this program. And he's listening to us right now. Yeah. I mean, the last time you and I were talking about maybe it was the last time or the time before last. Have I talked to you since I went and had a beer with Brad Brad Bradford? Well, we haven't talked since the first week of January. Yeah, yeah.

I'm trying to remember. Well, how did that go? One time we were chatting about Brad Brad Bradford and speculating. about why he would run for mayor. We did talk about this. Oh, yeah, well, I thought because of his performance last time, he heard that and sent me a text message saying this was, you know, it's fun to hear all of this.

But if you want to get together, like we're probably overdue. So I did go and have a non-alcoholic beer with him in Yorkville and chatted pretty candidly about his intentions to run and all of that. And I mean, as I think I already have reported to you in January, what he said was like, I'm running to win.

I think I'm going to win. That's why I'm running. Yeah. Like you want to know, I'm running from air, because I think I'm going to be the winner. And the question at that point was still whether or not John Torrey would be in, and whether it be a three-ray race or a two-way race, we've since gotten the answer to that question.

And the answer is? The answer is, no. No. And, you know, we, I, I had, I was seated at the same table at a luncheon with John Torrey in the late fall. I think we may have talked about this at that point too and he said he was still up in the air about his decision

and that really he just had to consider whether you know this this he wanted to put his family through this and put his girlfriend who was the subject of the scandal he that drove him out of office who's still you know he's still in a relationship with her

whether he wanted to put them all through that or not but then the rumors I was hearing like the buzz I was hearing like right up until he made his announcement. Like a week before, people were saying any day now he's going to announce that he's running. Like it seems like the forces were assembled and thinking he's decided he's going to run. And then I guess at the last minute, more or less, he made a decision not to run and said, essentially, that it was, he'd still like to run.

He's still, you can tell when you talk to John Torrey now, and you could see it in the way he was doing the job in his second term there, that like, he really would like to be mayor again. I think he liked having that job. I think he liked doing the community stuff as much as anything. But like, but I think the same reasons he left, he resigned rather than sort of face down the fallout from his, what he acknowledged was an inappropriate relationship at the time.

I think he still doesn't want to deal with the public fallout of that. He doesn't want to deal with those invalienable. questions and being badgered about it and having, you know, I said, I wrote at one point that John Torrey, that somebody, like Rob Ford, you look at the kind of scandals he injured and you look at how Donald Trump and, but all these other, there's a many, many people who could stand up there and just got through it and it would go away and it would be fine. but in those cases it's a question of how much mud you're willing to be covered in, right? And with John Tori, I think the answer is like almost no mud.

He doesn't want any mud flung at him. And so he's out. And it's interesting because, like, the last time John Tori announced he was not going to run for mayor, I don't mean when he resigned. I mean, the last time John Tori announced he was not going to run for mayor, I remember in 2006, 2010, sorry, when David Miller, after his second turn announced he wasn't going to run. It was widely expected that drive-time radio talk show host, John Torrey,

who had been the runner-up in 2003, was going to run. And a lot of people like Karen Stints, who were thinking about maybe running, backed out and backed off because, because, like, in deferrence to John Torrey. And it was, people at that time thought it was going to be like a George Smitherman John Torrey showdown. Both of them sort of like running to the right of David Miller's record after the

garbage strike, you know, they're going to turn the page. And then when John Torrey announced he wasn't running, almost immediately Rob Ford said, well, if John Torre is not running, it's my turn. Right. And he decided to run. And of course, Toronto history was shaped by that. And there was a moment there when he announced he wasn't going to run this time. And almost immediately Michael Ford was like, well, I'm thinking about it.

That it seemed like, wow, could that, Michael Ford's a very different character than his uncle Rob and his uncle Doug. But I was surprised to hear he was thinking about running. but he ultimately decided not to run. And so nobody else has stepped up. So it looks at this point, like the only declared candidate and Olivia Chow are likely headed to a showdown. Which is great news for Brad Bradford.

I feel like he's in the room because I know he's listening. So it's like we're having a three-way conversation, but his mic is muted. But if there is a path to victory for Brad Bradford, it's having no one else on that, you know, Chow side of things carving out like taking boats from him so John Torrey running I think would have been a nightmare for Brad Bradford and I actually think Michael Ford would have been a nightmare because

there's enough Ford Nation boats that would come out of the right if you will and come from Brad and then that would allow Olivia Chow to like repeat or victory so if there is no formidable candidate center right there is a absolutely there's a path and I never said last time I think I said to you no chance, but I'm here to tell you I've evolved my thoughts on this, that there absolutely is a path to victory for Brad Bradford. Yeah. And I mean, I think, like, if I'm trying to put on some kind of analyst hat and look at, like, guessing how the different trajectories of how a campaign could go, like, I think there's definitely a path. It's an uphill fight at this point. And I think what Brad Brad Bradford told me was that he thinks, like, some of the unfavorable numbers

he sees in polling, like right direction, wrong direction, indicate that he thinks this should be a change election, right? Not a, like, you know, there are change elections, and then there are status quo elections. Like, when people want stability, they may or may not vote for the incumbent. Like when Rob Ford was mayor, a vote for stability was not a vote for the guy

who already had the job, right? Like, I mean, he wound up having cancer, his brother, but you see what I'm saying. Yeah, it's like, but when they're voting for, stability, often they want to keep the same person in charge. And when they're voting for change, they want to throw the bum out, right? And he thinks he's the candidate to change. And I can clearly see a possible future in which that kind of, it plays out that way. But I think the uphill part of it is that, like, the most recent numbers I've seen are sort of that Olivia Chow

head-to-head here is like at 70% or something like that, or like, depending on, like, some of the head-to-head numbers and actual voting intention numbers are actually much closer than that. But it's like people's approval rating of her is actually still pretty solid. And so bar, like if there's a garbage strike or another TTC derailment or a traffic catastrophe during the World Cup or something like that, it's easier to see how Olivia Chow's numbers completely tank. But either way, I think I think a lot of the people say on Reddit

or whatever who are very dismissive of Brad Bradford, I think if it does wind up being a two-way where they say it may wind up being much closer than they think it's going to be. I think the people who are dismissing him as some kind of a joke are making a big mistake. And I maybe it's because I was in that room last Thursday and that room was full

and they were all Bradford supporters. So like that's a, that's that was where the supporters we're going to go, right? So it's like kind of, it's a bad sample size. In the TMU, which is the Toronto Mike universe where I talk to many listeners, Brad Bradford is not a particularly popular candidate. But I think if you look at the city as a whole, I think that you would be foolish to laugh him off as some kind of a fringe candidate. I think he's got a real shot here. And he's young and he's hardworking, right? Those I think, like, two people who look at how he finished last time,

That was kind of a misleading election because there were so many candidates, but also because of the way it's sort of like people heard it at the last minute to either Olivia Chower and a bylaw. And then there was like he kind of got squeezed out of that. But he sure did. Like let's not, you know. But in the same way as I think Josh Matlow probably, if people were voting for like, who did I like as a candidate, I think Josh Matlow and Brad Bradford.

their numbers would be much higher than which person did I vote for, right? Like, uh, no, I hear you. Like, I think they were on more people, second on more people's lists than, like, like they just got squashed in the first place vote count. But I think if there was like a,

who do you want to come in second, uh, they would both do much better. Now, I said this to you before, but I'm going to say it again because then I can cut it out and I can play it in, whatever, I guess it'll be the first one in January,

whatever after the election, right? Elections in October. beams of it. You're going to just circulate it as in the propaganda. And I can't, I didn't take down the numbers like I did last time. I didn't do my homework. But the vote count,

the percentage of the vote that Bradford received last election, that by-election, where he got to keep his job as counselor, isn't like a one time only, and let's do this thing. I would say if he does end up winning in becoming our next mayor, that is by far,

I think, the greatest political comeback in this city's history. Because he was, he barely, out Chris Sky. I think in terms of sheer, like, increase in percentage, like, not including people who did not run before, who got zero percent because they did not run,

but, like, of people who are running for a second time, I would have to think that if he manages to win, if he gets a percentage high enough to win the election, that it, I'm trying and failing to think, of anyone in Toronto history. Well, I've done the thinking. You can't come up with an example. There are some people who won on their second try, like John Tori.

Sure. But he faced, he fared very well. Yeah, and Olivia Chow. They both did very well in their first try, right? She finished third. No, she finished third, but her percentage of the vote was a double digits. You're right, you're right. It was probably like 30% or something.

Yeah. Okay, so Olivia, I want to ask you a big question about Olivia Chow. Firstly, is there any chance? Like, are we talking here like it's a 99.9%? chance that she does run for re-election. Like she hasn't said it yet, but is there any chance she retires and enjoys her grandkids and all that?

If she does, it will be a huge shock to me. And I think it would be a huge shock to a lot of other people because, like, I haven't over the last couple months since I've been preparing for this first uprole

been like at City Hall every day with my ear to the ground or anything like that. But I have not been here even rumors of anyone else mobilizing to be a successor or to be a progressive alternative or anything like that. And so I think if there, this is just honestly, and this is me, maybe recklessly like speculating or whatever, but I think if there was a chance that she was wanting to retire or not run again, the announcement would have been a couple months ago because she would

want somebody else to have the runway to somebody else that she likes to have the runway to take over um good point and and so so i think for that reason if nothing else it's very unlikely and i think more so when when she says she doesn't want to confirm that she's running again she's like she wants to keep the focus to the extent that she can of reporters and stuff asking those questions on whatever message she has in a given day she's trying to announce you know, that they're opening park bathrooms earlier, or that, you know, she's introducing signal priority on the spadina line, or that, you know, they're doing hydro improvements in Scarborough.

Like that's, she's, they're going to ask her the questions, and it will go into the mayoral stories, but she's trying to keep them just ask me about the things I want to talk about. And then when I'm ready to, like, formally launch my campaign with a big party and my own message, I'll do that. But in the meantime, And then her public message, the way she says that, is like, I'm focused on the job I have right now. The election is still a ways off.

And, you know, somebody like Mel Lastman historically going back would use a strategy like that or Hazel McAllian to basically try to create the perception that there's not even really a real race she has to run in. That like, well, you know, the election, I'll deal with the election. Well, for Hazel, that was awfully open. later. Yeah, yeah. No, yeah. And possibly sometimes literally true. I'd have to go back and look,

but I think Hazel may well have run unopposed a few times. But in many elections, what opposition she had was sort of like a ceremonial, like a symbolic opposition. Right. Like Tucker Gomberg against Mel Asman, maybe. Right. So I'm going to ask you the big question here.

And then we're going to talk about who might be the real mayor of Toronto But how is Olivia Chow doing? So she's had a short term because it was the John Torrey resigned and they had the by-election. So I guess it's like a three-year term, I guess. You would know better than I did. But how has she done and has she earned a second term? Well, I mean, I think, and I, so this may be partly because I'm doing a different role now. I will decline to answer such.

I mean, I'm still a columnist. I'm still providing my perspective, my whatever, and I'm not like I'm never going to share my opinions on things, but I think when it comes to things like elections and stuff, if I'm going to be the conduit to people's like news about this, I want to avoid sort of like weighing in on who I think should win or whatever. This is the steep taken mode. And so, you know, we'll see how that goes as those things go along.

But I think, like, there are a lot of ways to measure how successful Olivia Chow's been or how she hasn't been. And I think, like, from the perspective of a lot of her most enthusiastic supporters, there are things I think they wish she would have done more, right? Like stand up for Ontario Place or like Mount the Barricades more firmly on Billy Bishop. And, you know, but I think also for a lot of them, they're pleasantly surprised at how uncontroversial she's been on a lot of files, which allows her to get stuff like her school nutrition program and some part.

Parks improvements and, you know, passed. And, you know, like Stephen Harper used to say, the longer I'm prime minister, the longer I'm prime minister. That was the title of Paul Well's book about him. Meaning, you know, like, like slow and steady wins the race here, right? So, I mean, some people are going to love that. Some people are going to hate that.

I think from her critics' point of view, and Brad Bradford will be putting that out. It's like the rent is still too damn high. the streets are still congested. Like we've had, you know, like there are still problems, and it's hard some days to measure the incremental improvement in those problems if there is any at all. And I mean, one big question I have for Brad Bradford,

and I think it's an interesting one to explore. And so this is like, again, not me rhyming off the hip about my opinion on things, but I think it's like I'm hoping some star reporters and others will. because the last time I spoke to him, he was aggressively making the case for me, to me, that... Oh, for you as mayor, I thought you were going to say that.

Ed's got an announcement to me. I have an announcement to make soon. What are you doing me first? But he was aggressively making the case to me that like, under the strong mayor system and not the strong mayor overruling council system, the strong mayor hiring and firing senior city staff and having them report directly to the mayor system,

that you should be able to like a much more aggressively move a lot faster by like you put a transit head in there, you put a transportation chief in there, you put a CFO in there, and you say, here's how we're going to fix it, like let's get it done. And like you don't need to turn the entire bureaucracy. You need to put experienced like doers in those jobs and then, you know, hold their feet to the fire and get them to fix it, right? And I'm just like, I think there are questions about how that's going to play in Toronto, like, and how successful it's going to be, because I don't think a lot of people have had a lot of

success turning the city bureaucracy very quickly. But it is an interesting idea and an interesting criticism of Olivia Chow who has said, you know, well, now I've got these people in place that I appointed. Now we're starting to see results. and his question is like, why didn't you appoint those people on day one, right? Why didn't you, why is it taken three years, like all of a truncated term, but why is it taken this long to get your own people in place if you think that those people being in place is a precondition of success?

But I mean, on that note, it's a be interesting to hear if, if Brad Bradford then is is interested in sharing who he plans to appoint if he's elected. Or if that even winds up being a big part of his campaign, which I don't know whether it will. A couple months ago, he was making a point very strenuously to me, but it may not feature. Now, Brad, unlike Olivia,

Brad has reached out and he wants to come back on Toronto Mike. So in May I'll have Brad Bradford here. And you know me, I'm not going to pull any punches out. I'm going to collect questions and I'm going to have a real chat with this man. Has Olivia Chow declined? No, you know what?

I had her rule. Tell me if you think this is a dumb rule. Okay? Yeah. Active politicians. So if you're an active politician, I do not pursue you. Your people or you can ask if your candidate can come on

and then I'll make a judgment call like, what I do it. I usually say, like I said yes, who's a good example? But Anna bylounge people reached out and said, would you have her over during the last mayoral election? And I said, Radford reached out directly because he texted me and he said,

can I come on? And I said, Amber Morley's people reached out and said, can she come on? And now subsequently, I go straight to her because she's already an FOTM. So Olivia, of course,

I would love an episode of Toronto Mike with Olivia Chow. But as a rule, I'm not going to be, I'm not going to pursue her. Like, I don't want to become like, oh, I'm only pursuing these lefties.

I don't want to, basically, if you're a candidate of a certain notoriety and interest to me and you want to be on Toronto Mike, if you send me an email, Mike at Toronto mic.com. We'll schedule it and probably do it, but I'm not going to go chase you down and pursue you.

Well, I mean, it's interesting because that creates for your listeners, like for the army and the TMU out there, right? The FOTMs? Yeah. But it creates like that you have a policy like that. And now you've had it forever and I've clear about it. But it means that when people come on, it's because they or at least a savvy member of their staff

has identified this program as a place they'd like to come and talk to people, not because you marketed yourself to them, right? I did not. And so that itself tells you something about that candidate, at least, like that you're on their radar, right? Good point. No, good point. Who's the gentleman who is currently the mayor of,

who is the leader of the provincial liberal, Stephen Del Dukka? Why did I forget his name? Do I fix that in post? Yes or no. to be the provincial leader of the liberal party. Yeah. After a Kathleen went. Yeah. And now he's the mayor of Vaughn.

That's right. I think that's where Woodbridge is in Vaughn, I think. Is that how it works? Like Vaughn is the actual, anyways. I think so. Then I was there last Thursday. We're going to say yes to that one. The city above Toronto, the city of Vaughn. Anyways, Stephen Del Duca, one of his staffers asked me, would you have, this is during the pandemic. Would you have Stephen Del Duca on it? I said, yeah, we'll do it in the backyard. and I always remember the visit because his staffer brought a chair for him.

Like, they weren't going to have him sit in one of my chairs on the back deck. Like, it was COVID thing. Oh, because they were worried about COVID. Yeah, like a pandemic thing. And I was thinking, oh, that's interesting. Like, we're in the backyard. But, like, I found it interesting.

Like, oh, you can get COVID from the seat maybe. I don't know. But yeah, they had a chair for him. Well, there was a long time during the pandemic where people weren't exactly sure which ways it was trans-like, because you remember early in the pandemic, it was all about, like, wipe down your grocery. with antiseptic when you get home and all of that. And then by a couple months later,

yeah, not so much. They were boring. But like there was hand sanitizer everywhere, right? There's still hand sanitizer everywhere as a legacy of that. I think that's a legacy of SARS. The emphasis on that kind of like surface contamination fell away fairly quickly. But there was a real emphasis on it for a while. No, you're right.

So all bets are off during the pandemic. But I do remember that when Stephen Dilducah, we recorded in the backyard. and he had his own chair. Was he wearing a hazmat suit? You ever seen the naked gun? That would be something for the streaming audience. He came in a full-body condom, okay?

Leslie Nielsen and Priscilla Presley in the naked gun there. Hey, I want to ask you about who, maybe this is the real mayor of Toronto, you tell me, but can we spend some time again? We're going to keep the episode to two hours or less or everybody's going to get their money back. Also, because, yeah, I got to go, I got some work. Do you have a heart out?

you want to say to me right now, it's 252. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, two hours or less is good. We weren't going to go more than two hours, I promise you that. But, you know, during the quarter, like, between visits, Ed Keenan, I have a living, breathing Google document, and then things will come across my news feed, and I'll say, oh, that's something I want to ask Ed about.

Some of the stuff is so dated because you haven't been here since and so much has happened. Right. I literally have a note about Greenland. Like, yeah, I have a note because all that, yeah, all that happened after your last visit in early January. So there's some data dusty stuff. And there's somebody I want to talk about who's passed away.

But I have so many notes of like Toronto encroachment by the premier of this province, Doug Ford. Like I don't even know where to begin with this. But you did briefly mention Billy Bishop Airport. And I mean, one of the many places like a start, we're going to just kind of jam through this now. But talk to me about why it feels like Doug Ford is the mayor of Toronto. And what is this special economic zone? He wants to declare Billy Bishop Airpoint. I think from the time Doug Ford became premier,

and we're talking about this is his third term, right? He's won three majorities, yeah. I'm tracking over here. He had clearly, like, a focus on Toronto. And certainly in my capacity as a like opinion columnist, I weighed in on this a lot, but I think it's not even like opinion to note that he has been like single,

like not single minded, but like very, focused-minded on getting his way on things in Toronto. And so that started with like cutting the size of counsel, micromanaging the budget of Toronto public health. Remember before the pandemic, he had cut the budget of it. And then those cuts mostly got rolled back. But then, you know, the strong mayor system,

which applies to more cities than just Toronto, but there was a lot of talk from him and others, specifically about his brother's experience and why it was needed in Toronto. And he took over the Toronto transit construction system. I mean, a lot of people would say great, because the Ontario line was not on anybody's map prior to that, but the downtown relief line following a very similar route was,

and it was never embraced by anybody because they thought it was too downtowner concern. He took that over and, but decided to pay 100% for it. So he and his government are now the Toronto subway building people. Metro Links was already managing a bunch of big transit projects, but he's sort of formalized, we'll do all of it, right? And then more recently, people won't remember like the photo radar ban, which again, applied to cities outside of Toronto,

but was a big issue in Toronto, the bike lanes in Toronto. My favorite. Ontario Place, the Science Center. and now the tunnel under the 401, him taking over responsibility for the Gardner Expressway, basically to, I mean, that was an economic boom for Lio Chow, but from his perspective, it means we end this debate about taking it down, right?

And then you've got the island airport, which, so now, the background here, like many people listening to this will remember that it was a big issue in the 2003 election. Some people listening to this maybe weren't even born or aware at that time, right? Like some people listening to this will have followed the drama over it in between. But the island airport is like governed under a tripartite agreement, but between like so a three-party agreement between the federal government, the city government and an agency called Ports Toronto,

which is mostly federally controlled, right? It's sometimes called the Toronto Port Authority historically, but I think right now it goes by ports of Toronto. But those are the three parties to the agreement. You'll notice that the provincial government is not one of the three parties to that agreement. And so typically the haggling over what's going to happen at the airport is between the city and the federal government,

or sort of federal appointees. And I would say that further my perspective is that historically the people on the Port Authority have a mandate and a mission. Like they're essentially like a Crown Corporation whose job is to like run a successful airport. Also they manage some of the other harbor port business like the other harbor port business. But a big part of their portfolio is this airport. And so doing their job well means making that airport successful, right? And so the people at ports Toronto have always been kind of, like my perception is, rooting for it to expand, right?

Whether that's building a bridge so that, you know, Porter Airlines could succeed, whether that's expanding the runways a little bit so you can fly more flights in and out, whether that's like rebuilding the terminal with more features. You can now clear U.S. customs on this side of the border before you board your flight, just like you can't at Pearson. And again, things like that they're always pushing for. And part of that has been, you know, in these debates about whether there should be more commercial traffic in and out. And whether jets should be allowed, whether they are openly arguing for at any given time,

the words I'm sort of hearing from people who are really into this is that, you know, ports Toronto wants more traffic, right? The city often has not wanted more, but it depends who's in charge, right? because there are good reasons why you might want a busier airport right downtown because it's just convenient for you to fly in and out of there, right? Rather than schlepping out to Pearson or whatever. You might have corporate clients. I know, people I know in Washington, D.C. Love the island airport in particular because they can fly there from D.C.

They arrive there, take that little short ferry or walk through a tunnel, but they all love taking that short little ferry for the novelty of it. Sure. Like walk to a downtown hotel. They might have meetings, business meetings in a skyscraper that they go to underground or whatever. They go to some expensive bar down there. They go to a Jays game. They don't rent a car, right?

They may be here for a weekend or a couple days and they just walk from the flight to everything they're going to. And it's like they're all saying, how cool is that? So you can see why from the perspective of if you entertain people like that, if you are one of those people. Like, sure. But I mean, more traffic also means more noise, more pollution. A bigger runway means a narrower harbor and less, you know, attractive parkland right next door. And certainly for like, when we were debating this in 2003, and this is one of the interesting things.

that I'm interested to see how it plays out in public opinion, is that when we were debating this in 2003, there was this sense, I mean, when the city was debating it, and David Miller was opposing expansion of the island airport. He was canceling the bridge, and he was saying, no jets. And everybody else, including Port Toronto, was saying, no one wants jets. Why do you keep bringing up jets?

There's never going to be jets. That's crazy. You're scaremongering. There's never going to be jets. Well, now there's going to be jets. But back then there was this sense that like that residents on the Toronto Island itself were the main sort of like affected group of residents. But since then, like the entirety of like what I used to call Sofro south of Front Street, like the entirety of the condo land has popped up, right? All the railway lands and empty parking lots now have.

Like thousands and thousands of residents on them. And there's a plan in the Portland, which would be the eastern approach to the island airport, to put quite a lot more high-rise towers, right? And so those residents will have their own opinion, but also like how tall those high-rises can be will be affected by that. So these are all issues. But and I do think like it's an interesting debate for the city to have again. And as somebody who lived in Washington, D.C., where they have a downtown airport that is, like, Reagan National Airport, which used to just be called Washington National Airport, is like a six-minute drive from the White House. Like, it is right across the Potomac River down the way from, like, what you would, downtown in Washington, D.C. is the name of a neighborhood, but it's like right, it's in central Washington, D.C. area. It's on the Virginia side, but it's like just right around the way.

and Alexandria, Virginia is right beside it, Arlington, Virginia is right there, and it's a lot of traffic. Like, it is the, like, on the list of the top 20 busiest airports in the United States. And I have to say having lived there, like, I didn't notice, when you're on the plane, you notice that the approach is right down beside the Washington, like, the National Mall. Like, when, when I once was flying into Reagan and I took a picture out the window of the wing and then the, the Washington Monument, the famous obelisk. Like you could see it. It looks like you're driving right beside it in the picture, right? But it's like, it's that close.

Like you're flying right down over the tourist area of Washington, D.C. And it's not like I don't remember people hating it. Like I don't remember it being a, when I'm out near Pearson, I really notice the jets flying in. And yet in downtown D.C., I never really noticed like them as an annoying thing. So like, but anyway, I'm not, I'm not leading up.

Like, I do think there's questions to be asked more so than I thought in the past. But I think what's happened here, too, and what has really gotten some people more alarmed, even if they might be supportive of it, is, again, the sort of short-circuiting of the process. Like, he's going to take it right out of the city's hands. He's going to deal with the federal government himself. He's going to short-circuit all the environmental protections and all of the process protections. And just make it happen. And so, yeah, I mean, I think in a sense when you talk about, like, who may be the real mayor of Toronto, I think there is an argument, certainly, that Doug Ford has taken a very active role and asserted his prerogative as Premier to do the things he wants to do in Toronto.

So the quote I took from the Toronto Star article I read, what a great paper. The quote I took, Special Economic Zone. So that's the terminology that seems to be allowing Doug Ford to, uh, take over Billy Bishop Airport. So that's what I don't understand. How is an airport not a federal thing? Like, how can Doug Ford be the one to make the call on it?

There will still be, if the federal government doesn't want to play a ball, I think this is going to be dead in the water, right? No matter what Doug Ford thinks. Like, I think there's a tri-part of tight agreement. And if by taking over the city's interest in it, the province can supplant the city, as the third party in that agreement,

it's still one of three parties. And the Port Authority and the federal government remains sort of like the senior party in that agreement because they control the Port Authority. And so if Mark Carney wants this, then this special economic zone stuff allows them to push through a lot of things

a lot faster than they otherwise would. And some people would say recklessly so, because some of the things they're pushing aside are the consultations and the environmental assessments and all of that, right? If the federal government doesn't want it, I think that then we would be in for like a year's long fight if the provincial government wanted to push forward.

But, I mean, what we'll see is Mark Carney has said, as the Star has reported, that like he thinks Ford's got an interesting idea there. He hasn't committed himself. There's two Toronto by-elections happening right now, so maybe he doesn't want it to be an issue in those bi-enactions. elections. But, I mean, certainly the people who are opposing the island airport are saying that Torontoians should make it an issue in those by-elections, which are next Monday. But, but yeah, I mean, I think, like, if Mark Carney and his government, like, if the federal

government right now secretly wants this, but for some reason doesn't want to be the face of it, then Doug Ford's, it's all, I was going to say smooth sailing. I'm trying to think of a like a jet metaphor instead, like all engines go. Whereas wheels up. If they're just being quiet right now for some other reason and they secretly don't want this, then that's what we'll stop it, right? And I think I was at a book launch yesterday with Anne Golden and Ken Greenberg wrote or edited a book or, you know, help put together an anthology about what they say,

saving Toronto. And it's like, like, how do you build opposition? And so what they would say is, like, for the people who are opposed to this, is like, if you get a big movement going now, you can, like, the federal government hasn't said anything definitive. and so if you make them think the wind is blowing a certain way, maybe that will change things, right? But at the same time as all this, you know,

jets at Billy Bishop Airport and expanding the airport there, he's talking about, at least exploring this idea that he would, Doug Ford, I'm speaking of, he would fill in a part of Lake Ontario and build a massive new convention center. Oh, I forgot about the, When I was making my list, I forgot about the convention center. Like, okay, so I, again, I repeat myself. I do this bike ride on the Barton Goodman Trail all the time,

like maybe approximately five days a week. I'm doing this thing. And, you know, I go to the, I'm very close to the airport there. You know, I've long said I wish that the tunnel to the airport would extend to the island. I'd like to be able to bike to the island. This is a silly dream of mine, okay? This is something that people bring up, though, too, where they would really like, there's like a movement to try to allow access to the islands through that airport tunnel.

And right now the problem is like you would have to walk across the runway, right? But they're trying to figure out a way to have that, like where you could go to Hanlon's point by walking across through that tunnel or biking. But yeah, not yet. Or even doing something the Portland's or yeah, the Tommy Thompson park there, the Spitt, the Leslie Spit. So shout out to the Leslie Spit trio. But okay, so I digress.

But this whole idea of like expanding the airport and then somehow building, like making a new island of sorts and putting a convention center on it. Like, there's not, there's not enough lake. Like, isn't there a real estate issue with regards to Lake Ontario in that part of the lake? I don't know how serious this is. That's what I mean. I mean, I mean, I think. I think presumably someone would, like, we have to see what the diagram looks like, what the proposal actually is, right?

Because clearly you're not going to fit an island with a convention center in between the park, like the Ontario Place Park and the island. So maybe we'll go on the other side of Ontario Place, on the beachy side right now or the, you know, or something. I don't know. But, I mean, you know, when they first mentioned it, it's like, there's always an element of like, oh boy, people say that's weird. But, I mean, we have built quite most of downtown Toronto on Lakeville and the entirety of the existing Ontario places fill. And so it's like, it's not like completely wahoo the idea that you would do some more fill.

Yeah, I think front street was originally front street because it was right. the harbor front, right? And so, so, you know, that's, that's a lot of the city and a lot of big,

tall, strong buildings built on Phil. I mean, there's a great park right near here called Colonel Samuel Smith Park and all of that is built on, so,

like, it's just a question of like, where would it go and what would it be like? And what's the reason for doing that? And I don't, we don't,

I mean, Doug Ford promised, like, shock and awe in the design and all of that, but it hasn't been unveiled yet. So he's kind of like, teased it.

And then, Rob Benzie at Queens Park, who works for the Toronto Star, is our Queens Park Bureau Chief and his colleagues have, like, gotten some reporting about what might be happening behind the scenes, what ideas are being floated, you know, in advance of that kind of announcement. But we haven't heard anything official yet. And so it's hard to, hard to know how it all fits in until we do get the official announcement, right? no absolutely now I'm going to ask you about one more thing here and then we're gonna I'm giving you a bio break because then I'm gonna

tell the listeners and then I have I do have something I want to talk about okay yeah yeah maybe after the bio for sure for sure and then we'll remember somebody who passed away since your last visit but I'm just pointing out that you know they're now constructing the new Ontario Science Center I guess that's an Ontario place right?

Yeah okay so apparently the completion date is in 2029, but Ontario Science Center will be built on Ontario Place. That's happening. Yeah, and they have unveiled the designs for that. They have unveiled like, and I mean, it will incorporate, as Doug Ford initially said, the pods, the iconic sort of pods that exist there now, the, the sort of bridges you walk across, as well as the synosphere, like the existing, you can't mess of that.

The existing buildings of what we think of as the buildings of Ontario Place will be part of the old Atlantis restaurant, all of that stuff, right? And then there's a significant new structure that, you know, like some very well thought of architects put together that, like I haven't studied, but it looks lovely. And so, I mean, it is, given some of the criticisms they got, it remains less square footage than at the old science. Center, but it is dramatically more square footage than exists in those buildings now, right?

And I mean, this is the thing, that's going ahead. The Science Center is moving there. Yeah, they're doing it right now. It's going to be the anchor attraction or the anchor public attraction of the new Ontario place that's being built. There's the Thermace Spa, which is also under construction. There's the rebuilt Live Nation concert theater. Yeah, replacing the RBCM theater.

There's the existing new parkland on the other side that was finished under the previous government, I believe, or at least substantially designed. Do you mean Trillium? Trillium Park, yeah, which is still part of the new Ontario Place complex. That's my destination. And then, you know, potentially this convention center, either at exhibition place or on an island off Ontario place or somewhere else down there, according to what we've heard. And so, you know, clearly the provincial government has had a big ideas about redeveloping this as a waterfront space, right? Like the waterfront itself has long been a huge idea that Doug Ford has, right? So. Yeah, much discussed, much discussed on Ed Keenan episode of the Toronto Mike.

So here, you're going to take a bio break. And then when you come back, there's 30-minute block that is basically freestyle. You can talk about anything you want. And then I'll do a little closure, like a 10 to 50 minutes at the end. We're going to hit the two-hour mark. We are very good at this, Ed Kiernan. And I can't wait for your morning podcast that will accompany your newsletter. And I get to hear that groggy, tired voice every single morning.

So don't hit your head when you stand up. Now, for his troubles, Ed Kienin is going home with delicious frozen lasagna. from Palma Pasta. Ed loves his Palma Pasta lasagna. I got one in the freezer right upstairs. We love Palma Pasta

on this program. I'm my goodness, if I have to cater an event, I cater with Palma Pasta because it's delicious, everybody's happy. palma pasta.com. We will have an event

later in 2026, a TMLX event at Palma's Kitchen. We do that a live recording there every single year. That'll happen again, so stay tuned for that date, late November or early December. But much love to our partners,

Palma Pasta, and of course, we'll be drinking Great Lakes beer. Best Craft Brewery in the Dam Province. I'm sure it's in the country, but I can only speak for the province here. Great Lakes Brewery, they have a great podcast called Between Two Fermenters. I'm proud to be a part of that. It's always fascinating. I also want to shout out, I already have, but once again, Nick Aeney's has a podcast called Building Toronto Skyline.

The most recent episode is Brad Bradford, and that was the live event I attended last Thursday. Life's Undertaking is a podcast from Ridley Funeral Home. I have a new present for, and I'm going to give it to him a second. But in exactly an hour and 45 minutes, Brad Jones will be here to record a new episode of Life's Undertaking. It was a back-to-back-to-back-to-back day. Donovan Bailey, then back-to-back Toronto mics,

and then we got Brad Jones coming in here. This is a new gift for you. You haven't got one of these yet. Ed Keenan. I've seen that. Is it a different type of measuring tape? So it's measuring tape. Yes.

Yeah, measuring tape, but it's also a bottle opener, and it is a level, and it is a, if I pull this thing, it is a flashlight somewhere here, I can, I don't want to blind you, but if you, there you go, there you go. It's a flashlight as well. So this is like a four and one. It's like a Swiss Army knife of measuring tape. So, how about that?

There you go. So I figured you had enough of the green Ridley Funeral Home measuring tapes. You probably have a drawer full of them. I've got quite a few. Next to that drawer that has all those old cables. A little measuring tape like that. was useful, though. Oh, yeah.

I had a guest earlier today. You're not the first Toronto-Miked episode of the day. There was a burlesque dancer who is always going to thrift stores to buy vintage dresses and things. And she was honestly, she was so happy to get that measuring tape. I'm like, oh, have another one. Like, honestly, she was so delighted. It's nice to be able to make people happy. Starlit, her name is.

She was fantastic. That's the episode before this one in the Toronto Miked feed. That was a, we did the history of burlesque. 1876. 18, yeah, good, good, you're good at this. So 1876 featured a starlet and she is a burlesque dancer. And we talked about the history of burlesque and strip clubs in the city of Toronto with our Jeremy Hopkins, our official Toronto historian. Now we have Ed Keenan here.

We're going back to back and then Brad Jones will come in and do an episode of Life's Undertaking. Last note before I pass the mic to Ed Keenan for the next half hour. You're a hustling for the day. Hustling, I'm a hustling, baby. This is the life of an entrepreneur, okay? You never know where it's going to take you. But last note is if you have that drawer full of old cables in your home or a closet maybe, I'm worried, Ed, you're going to throw those old phones, that Blackberry.

I'm worried you're going to throw the old laptops in the garbage, and those chemicals are going to end up in our landfill. Don't do that, Ed Keenan. Go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Stick in that postal code and find out where you can drop it all off to be properly recycled. You got it? Absolutely. Where would you like to go for the next half hour?

I'm ready. Well, I mean, I don't know if it takes a half an hour, but I thought that this was a fun thing in today's first up newsletter. I put, there was an item in the star, and, you know, the planetarium is being torn down. Yeah,

I wrote about it on Toronto mic.com. And I have a little item in there in today's first up newsletter where I talk about, where I try to get people, I was soliciting comments from people. So I'll come to this. Oh, I'm subscribing to first up while you talk to me. But it's,

Um, the, okay, so I have fond childhood memories of going to the planetarium. And if you're a city kid to, like, you don't really get to see the majesty of the night's guy. Right. And I would be in Boy Scouts or Cub Scouts or whatever, and they'd be teaching us the constellations. And I'd be looking up there. And it's like, occasionally you can kind of find Orion. But other than that, it's just like, what, what are you even talking about? Like, there's, is that a North Star or is that a satellite?

Is that a street light? down the road. Like, you can't really see them. And so, so I do have those fond memories. But, like, the thing is, is that,

like, honestly, if it reopened as a planetarium tomorrow, it's not like I'd be there on a regular basis or anything, right? Right. Maybe if they had laser radio. Laser Floyd?

Um, um, yeah, it'd probably still be laser Floyd. I was trying to think of a more recent. Well, what was a gizzard? A lizard.

What are they? Is there a gizzard? What's that band called? It's got two drummers in that band, I think. I feel like that would be the heir apparent. All right. But the point being, like, it operated as a planetarium

from 1968 until 1995. Yes. And then Mike Harris shut it down. Right. And then after that, it was briefly like an annex sort of to the ROM where they had a children's museum in there.

They used it for storage for things. So I was, corrected when I had in my early draft been saying it had been sat vacant for longer than it was ever in use. The building was still in use for a period after it closed in 1995. There's multiple floors to this thing. So I think stuff was happening on floors that weren't the point of time. But in 2009, I believe 2009, I don't have the story in front of me, but like it was sold

to the University of Toronto. They've had plans to redevelop it. Those plans have gone through a few different things, but now they're knocking it down. But the point is that it hasn't been a planetarium for longer than it ever was a planetarium. It's not since the mid-90s. 31 years it was closed after operating for 28 years, right? Right. Right. And so maybe despite the, I'm always happy to take a trip down memory lane.

But the fact is it's like it still stood there as an interesting looking building all of this time. Yeah. And I will feel the loss of a cool building. like even if I was never going to go inside. And I think, like, and this is what I called out for people to go to this story and comment on it, because I'm hoping, like, to build a map of, like, the landmarks that existed only in our memory. Like, the Toronto that was, so, so let me, I'll just put this pretentious bit in here, but it's because it always sticks with me.

Is that, like, I didn't put it in my newsletter today or anything. But it was like, the writer, Colson Whitehead wrote, this really great essay in New York Magazine after 9-11, right? And those towers went down. And he doesn't really mention 9-11 at all, but it was a 9-11 anniversary essay. But he was saying, like, you know, he was born in New York. So, like, everybody has different, but, like, in his mind, you become a real New Yorker. The first time you walk past a place and you say, that dry cleaner, that used to be the Kit Kat club, right? Like, Or that's the restaurant where I had my first date,

and now they've built a condo tower there or whatever. And what he's saying is, like, when the real city exists only in your mind, and what's in front of your face on the street is the imposter version. Like, that's when you're really a New Yorker. And I always, like, that's stuck with me a little bit. I think not just New York of their cities. But so what I'm looking for is, like, to me, honest ed's

is one of those, like, landmark buildings where, like, now it's it's it's been erased from the map right like uh somebody somebody in the comments already said the ontario place forum but i will also even say like the flyer roller coaster which like even in the off season was still there it was a permanent structure and now it's gone exhibition stadium down there bull of a clock tower yeah um and so so i was like just hoping to get from you and if people are listening on there on the stream want to send it as a message or if they want to go to the star or send me an email at ekeen and at the star.ca.

Keenan at the star. But it's like, I would love to hear people's, because I legitimately would like to make a map if I get enough good suggestions of like, like for some people of a much older generation than me and you,

it would be like the Art Deco Toronto Star Building at King and Bay that was demolished to make way for, but was the model for the Superman's daily planet building, right? Like the exterior. But are you, so there's two things that play here. There's the building that this was that. Okay, so oh, this was the Rundameed Theater. Now it's a shopper's drug mark.

Right, right. Yeah, that's a different thing. So that's a different thing. You're talking about we demolished the building. Like something that was to you a landmark that is just not there. Yeah, like Honest Dead's is a great example. Somebody said the ROM on Bloor Street before they put that... Oh, the crystal.

Before they put the crystal there. And I think, okay, that's fair enough. But the rest of that ROM building is still there. But you know what that made me think of? What? Is, do you remember the weirdo McDonald's across the street from the Rom. So it was like this brown tile, but also it had an outdoor patio, but like in the basement. Well, if I may, is that gone?

I think that McDonald's is still there, but it's not, it doesn't design the same way. I think they rebuilt the building. I got to go and have another look. Like, it's certainly not that beige tile anymore. Well, I'm going to alert you to, so I mentioned the name Jeremy Hopkins. Yeah, yeah. He's not only on the live stream, but he was in this basement for 90 minutes earlier today with burlesque performer. name Starlet.

Okay. So every quarter, much like yourself, actually, I'm surprised you have them bummed into each other in these hallways here. But every quarter, Jeremy Hopkins comes over, and we have themed Toronto history episodes.

Our last one was at Casaloma. We did the history of Casaloma, right? You get the vibe. We did an episode on 10 buildings we demolished, but should not have demolished. Oh, man. Yeah, and he's got photos and everything, and he talks about these 10 buildings

that we demolished, but we shouldn't have demolished. Like, one I think one of the 10 is, like Maple Leaf Stadium. Oh, yeah. I have a special episode coming up. That's where Babe Ruth hit his first professional home run, right? No.

So there's three of them, actually. Because there's a fire. Okay. So the one you're talking about was on Hanlon's point. Yeah. That's where he was with the Providence Grays and he hit his first pro home run, Babe Ruth. Some say that ball is still in Lake Ontario. I don't know who to believe on that one.

But some say it never landed. So there was a stadium at Hanlon's point and it burns down. And then there's another stadium at Hanlon's point. And then there was a... I just read a book about the 1926 Toronto Maple Leafs who played at Maple Leafs Stadium at where the tip-top Taylor building is basically.

Like the Bathurst and... Okay, yeah, yeah. I've seen... I've seen a... Plack. Like historic maps of that, though, too. That's the one. We tore it down, I think, in 1969.

I have to confirm. But it was like a great old ballpark and that's where, like, Sparky Anderson... And if you talk to Larry Mils who covered the Blue Jays for the Globe Mail, he'll tell you about all the games. he attended there and everything. It's funny that we're talking about this,

because earlier this week, I read a book about the 1926 Toronto Maple Leafs. It's a 100-year anniversary of this team, and I knew nothing about this team, but I'm going to have a whole episode of a guy named DM Fox who wrote a book about the 1926 Toronto Maple Leafs. And they played their game at the brand new, newly opened, the one we're talking about by Tip Top Tailors.

And one of the big things at the time was a lot of complaints about having to take a ferry to and from a professional. baseball in the city. So they called it like we need to bring baseball to the mainland and that's why they

literally like this is cute and all but it's a pain in the ass for everybody to go to see the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. I imagine the lineups for the ferry to get back

were probably a nightmare because like have you ever just tried to like get out of the stadium? Yeah, anyway. You know, probably right here. So I'm getting quick,

quick here while I think on the build I love this idea by the way of because you're right when that planet turned and I know they started demolishing this week or last week maybe because I wrote about it as well but I wrote about how so your point's valid

that because I went to U of T and I passed it a million times and there is a sense of feeling like I know I'm never going to see anything in there and they don't do anything on they don't do the planets and stars shows on the planetarium there anymore but like I did like knowing it was there

like it's a dome yeah it's a cool looking building and then seeing it you could talk about how many class trips I don't know where you went to school but how many class trips did we take to the planetarium? Yeah, and the ROM in the planetarium sometimes in the same day. You see the dinosaur bones? You see the stars? 100%, right?

So I did like knowing us there, and then I did put a picture ahead. There's a drawing of what it's going to look like, and of course it doesn't look like. The planetarium is a different building for UFT, and it might be a cool building, but there is something to these buildings that are fixtures in the city,

and then the building is demolished and replaced with something. Honest Ed's is a great example. I think that's a great example. Like, Honest Ed's is gone. The Captain John's seafood shit, is been replaced with nothing, right? But it was another example of like, man, I was never going in there for seafood lunch.

I worked across the street. But it was like one of those things where when you see it, you know exactly where you are in the world, right? And this is the thing is I think, like sometimes we build nice new buildings and sometimes we build nice new landmark buildings. But more often what we build is like a glass wall tower with like a big chain retailer occupying the main floor.

And it's like, well, we used to have this. cool little dome. We used to have those spinning discs of the, of the Sam the record man. We used to have this Captain John Ship, we used to have that weird honest heads. Like, there are some that have been not been destroyed because the Ontario Science Center would be one for me

and the Ontario's place, Sinosphere, would be another one for me. What are the plans for the Science Center? The real one. As far as I know, the most recent update is they don't have any plans yet. I think the city is trying to... Are they considering demolishing it? No, I think the city is, is

looking at trying to have some kind of community space there that might include some kind of museum and all of that. But I think it's on hold. Like, I think there's feasibility looking into it right now because it would be quite expensive for the city to take on. The funny thing is after that day, we had that one day snowfall, which was like a record setting, one day snowfall in the city of Toronto. And they're like, all right, this is what's going on here in this TDC station and this and that. But the roof of the Ontario place, sorry, the Ontario Signs, is intact and still there.

So there you go. It survived the biggest thing. I'm going to just, I'm going to quickly read some comments that came in on the live stream before we get back to our regularly scheduled program. Because there's a note from Jeremy Hopkins. Yeah. He's Robert Lawson and you.

He says, ports Toronto recently changed their name back. To the Toronto Port Authority. Excellent. Excellent. Sorry. You've been fact checked. Robert Lawson. Okay.

And Andrew Ward. Oh, my God. I had an exchange of him today. Maybe I should do more Toronto Symphony Orchestra episodes. He's trying to class up the joints, and I love him for it. But he says, Atlantis was a cool place to take a date when it was a nightclub, and the roller coaster films on the Sinosphere were awesome.

He's talking about Ontario place now. I also remember seeing a lot of kids get scraped and scratched in the boxing bag section. Okay, there's a good memories. Yeah, I love that, yeah, the playground at the old Ontario place. And Atlantis was also the site of my high school. prom. That's a mind blow. What high school was this?

Cardinal Newman High School in Scarborough, which is on the Scarborough Bluffs, but we, like, they booked that. and then most of us went on a all-night boat cruise in Lake Ontario right afterwards. Okay. And he says, Mike, you deserve a time and a half for a marathon day, because it is a marathon day. And he goes, he read about the burlesque episode, and then he opened the feed here, and he sees Ed Keenan.

He's wondering, will you be stripping? That would be quite a show, wouldn't it? Yeah, I put on. this appropriately sexy sweater and collared shirt outfit to make the reveal all the more amazing. Well, if you do strip, what I learned from our burlesque

dancer is the key to everything is the pasties with the tassels. Like, apparently if you cover your ariola, you're good, you're not violating any bylaws. And that's like burlesque, it's not, like you don't need a strip license or something. Well, we're not talking about a strip club license.

And strip clubs are having trouble. You might know this. just closing everything, but they're having trouble reopening because of the zoning bylaws. Like it's very difficult because you have to be a certain amount of space away from like things. I've heard of that.

And like so, yeah, where can you open a new strip club? Not a moratorium, but severe restrictions put on. And they're basically disappearing as a kind of, as they close, you can't reopen them.

I would have at a certain point now that you mention it. Like Philmore's building has been saved for now because the plan was that it was going to be torn down and replaced by another building. And I would have said that like, you don't think of strip clubs as a, as a landmark much, but it's legitimately building a beautiful building. And with that Fillmore sign on it for so long, it was like, even, well before I even really knew what a strip club was, I used to pass that on the streetcar when I was a kid,

like going to my piano lessons. And I would look and I would see this sign that said no cover. And I thought, once I started to realize what went on in that place, I thought no cover meant like topless. Okay. Yeah, it's a double entendre. My mom at some point because they were, like, they were advertising something on the radio, like a concert was no cover.

And I was like, and she was like, what do you think that means? Oh, oh, okay. But Phil Moors would be on the list, but it seems like the building is not going down anytime soon. We love our signs in the city. Like if you run down the signs, the Elmo, the same signs. The Samza Bar. Even the chum, the 1050, the chums sign. Yeah, 1050 chums, which is now on the side of the new Bell media building there.

They have to save the truck that is. is embedded in the wall at 299 Queen Street West. Yeah. Like, although, maybe you'll agree with me on this. So right now it says CP 24, but when that... It used to be the city news. City pulse. City pulse.

So it was a City Pulse truck when it was erected initially. And now it says CP 24. But if Bell Media vacates, like, that's kind of like, that's just promoting a Bell Media property, CP 24. And they didn't have City Post because Rogers got City. Anyways, you know the... So you think whoever takes it over, if it's going to be like a heritage protection thing, it should be restored to.

to its original condition. You better believe it. Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, I think that's a really valid point to me. Yeah. I think it's fair enough. It was not, you know, CP-24 was just a marketing move by Bell Media. So get that back to the City Pulse branding.

What is the word for that when you're branding on a car? There's a word for that. Livery? Yeah. Yeah. Good for you. Did you ever get a Toronto Star car? I did not.

I used to drive a Toronto Star car. Like, so when I started there, the photographers all had their own cars or they had like the use of cars, like, or they get a car allowance, and salespeople have, like, a car allowance. But for the newsroom, there used to be three or four star cars, which were just like company cars that you could take out a lot. You'd sign them out for the day if you were on an assignment

that would take you somewhere that you needed to drive. And one of them was a Fiat 500. And so I actually loved checking out. A lot of the other staff would be like, oh, that stupid little toy car. And I was just like, I loved, it was so fun driving it. No, it sounds fun here. I'm hoping for some Toronto Star bicycles.

Maybe I could borrow one there. And we should have a fleet. There is a bike share right directly outside of the new Toronto Star office. Yeah, and on that note, on the live stream, Andrew Ward, I guess we were talking about buildings. And he says, would the Toronto Star or the Globe and Mail buildings count? I mean, the Globe and Mail buildings certainly could count because it was demolished to make way for the well. I didn't spend as much time around like front and spedina as one might back in the day.

And so I didn't have occasion to like see the globe building very often. The globe building before it was the globe building was the Toronto Telegram building. And now those, that building is no longer there. But the well complex is there and the Toronto Star has its offices on that site. and the old front doors, there was like a very ornate front door, like made out of metal with like all kinds of like little gilded like curlicues and stuff around the front doors of the Globe and Mail office there. And that is preserved inside the well building.

Like just off the lobby, you can still go in and see it. So there's a newspaper history. on that site for sure. Interesting. But that could be a mental landmark for somebody for sure. It's just like

less vivid in my mind. So earlier you mentioned the Elma Combo sign. Yeah. Did you know Ed Keenan that I am headlining at the Elma combo on May 21st?

I had no idea. I'm here to educate you. What are you headlong? Is this like a musical show? No, here's my pledge to the listenership. I won't be dancing. A little hard voice. I saw you.

I dropped my first single. This is no joke. Just a couple of days ago, I dropped my first single. I had this idea for a parody song, and I cooked it up, and then was dared to put it in the feed, and I dropped in the feed. I can't sing. I'm not a dare. I'm not a dare.

It was a pitchy dog, but it's out there, but people want to hear it, and you're forgiven if you don't. But I'm not going to sing at the alma combo. I am crafting a one-man show, basically. It's like part, there's humor, there's observations, there's point. authenticity. It's all going to come around. Joining me on stage is keyboardist

Rob Pruse. There are musical elements to my presentation. So it's going to be a one-off. A theater, spoken word theater. Yeah. So it's going to be, there's a improv element to it, depending if anyone shows up,

that there might be some spin-off stuff. But I'm going to craft this thing and deliver it on stage on May 21st, 2026 at the Elma combo. This is happening, it's super cool. It's happening. Is there anybody else?

Like, do you have an opening band or anything? No, it's just me. Okay. So maybe, maybe you're headlining and opening. Well, Rob Proust might be playing some songs before I grab that mic and get rock in there. So, yeah, I think that's a good idea. So Rob Proust will be, he's on keyboards, doing his thing, and then I'll take the mic and I'll do my thing. That's very cool.

Have you been to the, to the Elmo in the years since it reopened? Yes, sir. I saw mid-year. Do you know this name? Mid-year. Yeah, yeah. I saw mid-year there. I was there for Ed Sousa's 60th birthday party in mid-year.

He's an FOTM. So, like, obviously, you're booked in there now. So, but, like, I was going to ask you what you thought of it. So, okay, so there's multiple rooms at this Elma combo. So the room that I'm performing in is called the Starlight Room. Starlet, no relation to the Starlight Room, who is the burlesque performer that was in this basement today. She was very excited by that's the room.

room. Like, so that's not the room the stones played. Like, the stones played the one you're describing, I saw mid-year-in. That the, this is, on the main floor, there's the starlight room and that's, so I'm, I'm at the Elma combo with the starlight room. Like, where the stones played historically and stuff, it, like, doesn't exist anymore. Well, isn't it? It was upstairs.

Yeah, upstairs. But that's, that's where I saw mid-year. Upstairs is now cut out with a balcony overlooking the stage, right? Or is there a separate room? No, this room I was in, which was upstairs. Maybe I haven't seen an extension. and I enjoyed it and Octopus wants to fight.

I believe it's been restored and Michael Weckerly poured a lot of money into it. No, no, he sure did. She sure did. And it has like lots of recording capabilities and all of that. Live streaming capabilities.

I once did a, we were gonna, I produced a show for Donovan Bailey. We did an episode today. But we were considering doing it at the Alma combo and I got like one of those like tours of how the tech works and everything. And I, uh,

I was, wasn't paying for that. I get paid when I produce. Right, right. But it is a pricey joint to do any kind of recording, but they got so... But yeah, I mean, my sense when I went back there and, like, saw some stuff there was that it's, they did a nice job of the renovation. It doesn't feel like the old Elmo, but it does feel like a tribute to the old Elmo, right? Like, and it's a bit too sanitized, maybe. where they have giant posters of Debbie Harry and like pictures of people performing there.

They have little tributes all over the place to people performing there. The restrooms are a lot safer to use than the old Elmo restrooms. Right. So, but like, I think there's a lot to like about it as a venue. And it acts as a tribute to the old Elmo,

but it doesn't, it's a lot cleaner. And, like, nicer than the old Elmo. And so whether that's your... But it does. Lack the character. Whether nicer is your thing or not is, is, uh, is the open question. But it is like, I mean, I'm glad it's still there. Like when I go to see a show at the Horseshoe Tavern, which I do often, like, part of it is it's

going to have the smell to it. Like there's a, you know, if you go to sneaky D's, it's still sneaky D's baby. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a good example. I took my son for nachos there recently because he's a nacho aficionado. He's not much of a drinker, but he's a nacho guy. And so we went, had, uh, had had nachos there. and yeah, it's still sneaky D's after all these years.

Well, speaking of sneaky D's, this will tie together, and then I'm going to ask you about a gentleman who just passed away. But shout out to Ridley funeral home. But Sneaky D's original location was like Bathurst and Bluer, and the name was a response to Honest Eds. Yeah, it's the opposite. It was opposite Honest Eds, which, so then, like, like,

the location was opposite Honest. And the name was the opposite of Ed's backwards would be, well, Ed backwards would be D, I guess. So yeah, like that's... So I don't know if people have lost that origin story because it has relocated. And I never went there or knew about it at Bathurst and Bluer, but I was like a regular for a while in the 90s

when it was at, you know, on Bathurst Street there and it's still there. Well, I can shout out Loest of the Low who played the original Sneaky Dees location many, many, many, many times during their Shakespeare My Butt era. And they're celebrating 35 years of Shakespeare My Butt, and they're going to be in the basement very, well, Ron Hawkins and Lawrence Nichols will be in the basement very soon

to talk about the 35th anniversary of Shakespeare, my butt. I can still like, I'm one of these guys who wanders around singing songs, like under my, like, they just pop into my head and like, and I was recently thinking, because I was like singing like, you know, let's take a walk down to the only, like in my head recently while I was just like doing stuff

the house. And I thought, like, it's been a while since I listened to the lowest low. And it was like, but I was just trying to think of like Kevin Quain, who I introduced you to. And I love that song, the Valentine. The lowest of the low. Yeah. Like, for me, in my mental playlist, like, not the Spotify I actually listened to or whatever, but in the rotations of songs that just pop into my head unbeckoned and I like sing whole verses to myself,

Shakespeare my butt and Kevin Quain's hangover honeymoon. Like, they're still here, like, 20, 30 years after they were recorded. Like, I still remember them and they're like my constant companion friends. And lest we forget, the closing theme of this very podcast, which is currently recording, yeah, currently recording 1877. So almost 2,000 episodes and every episode has closed with Rosie and Gray. Now it's a cover because I was getting caught by the YouTube algorithm. And I talked to the guys about it.

We couldn't figure that one out. So Rob Pruse made a cover that alluded the algorithm, but it is still rosy and gray. There you go. So there you go. It all comes full circle. There's a big personality who was on city council for many years, and you covered him as a city counselor who passed away this past quarter. Giorgio Mamaliti. Yeah.

Speak to me about the – this is what a tough one, I know. I mean, no, no. The thing is that Giorgio Mamalidi was, like you say, a big personality. It's like one of the most accurate, but most vivid things you could say about him. He started as a member of provincial parliament for the NDP. There was a bit of a scandal because he was continuing to do his job as, I think, a superintendent of a TCHC property or something like that while he was a member of provincial parliament.

He then came to Toronto City Council, and like he through his different career was always like sort of a very loud populist but he he went from sort of like the populist left to the populist right over the course of various stages of his career um he was on like David Miller's executive committee then he was like the right hand the right thumb of Rob Ford there was literally a time but when Rob Ford was there it was like he would hold his thumb up or down like the like at the Coliseum, you know, but indicating whether

Rob Ford's allies should vote for or against something. Because often, like, motions come on the floor and there's a bunch of amendments, and often people have a real hard time keeping track of, like, which ones they're supposed to vote for and which ones aren't. So he was the thumb who sat right at the right hand of Rob Ford in the council chamber,

directly beside him, literally right beside him. At one point in protest of Hanlon's point being allowed to continue as a nude beach, a clothing optional beach. He stripped down, took his shirt off in the council chamber. He had, okay, so he had a war with Rob Ford originally, where they were over like who was coming into whose ward to serve the constituents. And it was kind of like a match, like a, like a, like a, just a, like, cat fight of, like. And so, and, you know, Rob Ford called him a snake and all of that.

And then when Georgio Mammalidi originally announced he was going to run for mayor in that election where John Tori declined to run after David Miller, a lot of people, like, he seemed to be running his campaign, a reporter who worked from, I was the city editor of I Weekly at the time, and a reporter who was covering that campaign for us characterized Mammalides' campaign at a certain point as like an anti-Rob Ford heat-seeking missile. Like, he seemed to be at the debates not really trying to win, just trying to score points against Rob Ford, just trying to take Rob Ford out. And so these guys, like, famously, like, were enemies. And then as soon as Rob Ford was elected, it was like, I don't know if it was a heel turn or the opposite, but, like, George O'Mammalidi became suddenly the Rob Ford right-hand man,

henchman. And so, I mean, he certainly, certainly was a big character. I think he became famous at a certain point for his constant repeated lobbying in favor of, he wanted like the world's biggest flagpole to be erected in his ward in New York,

North York. It was constantly like trying to get, not just permissions, but funding for that as like a tourist attraction and all of that. It's hard to know, like, so it's hard to know how to summarize his legacy. after he retired from Toronto City Council

or left Toronto City Council he he went up and ran for mayor of Mississauga at one point and didn't do well Not Mississauga, right? No, sorry, I remember I said, which I meant to say. So it's got some of the same assesas sounds in it.

No, I get it, yeah. Yeah, mayor of Wassega Beach and it didn't do well in that and then I take it like a shocking like sort of death by by accident of some kind but but like he was like a really memorable character

is probably the most accurate thing I can say about him but also like the nicest thing I can say about him I think there was a lot of times certainly where I was like an opinion columnist and opinion journalist I didn't feel like he would I often felt like he was not arguing in good faith I often felt like he was putting on a show

and all of that like and I said that over the years and he he didn't treat me all that nicely in response, but I do think like, like, man, like you were never unaware he was in the council chamber. And for a lot of journalists, that's like an entertaining guy to have around, because he would always want to come up and talk to the press and showboat, right? He would always want to put on a show. And there aren't as many characters like that on City Council right now. Certainly none like him. So, you know,

to his family, like I certainly, like I have, they have my condolences. And I hope he's resting in peace. Certainly like his life wasn't lived with like peace as the mantra so much as like stir it up, stir it up. That was his kind of political persona. See, I think that was a very kind and thoughtful synopsis of this man. I think it's difficult to memorialize the characters like Mamelis.

Like I think it's because you don't want to speak ill of the dead, of course, but at the same time, you don't want to, you know, you know, people, sometimes people die and then you present them as like, oh, this great deity or whatever, when in life they may not have been as charming. Yeah, somebody high profile died. There was a point where right after somebody died, and there was the kind of outpouring of public emotion and tributes. Charlie Kirk.

Another politician said to me, Like a politician reading this stuff said to me, I hope when I die, people don't feel compelled to lie about how much they liked me and how much they'll miss me. I hope the people who hated me will just say, good riddance. And of course they won't, right? But I understand. Well, some will.

And I'm concealing those identities just because I don't want it to become an distraction, but also it was like kind of an offhand comment at a funeral that I didn't ask him if he could be on the record. So, but, but, I mean, there is that kind of sense where you, you don't want to speak ill of the dead. But, but I also think, like, two things, I would say is, like, one is that, like, when I'm writing about somebody dying, like, it's not like I feel like I have to lie and pretend

they were something different than they were, or that I have a different opinion of that. But I do think that they existed, they played a role in public life, which is the whole reason I'm writing about them. You want to accurately sum up what that role was, right? Like what, what, it's like if a character on a sitcom, if you're writing the synopsis, you don't have to constantly be saying, oh, he was the bad guy.

You're trying to say what role he played in the story. Like what, and what made him memorable for the audience, right? like what part he played in moving the plot along for better and for worse, right, for richer and for poorer. And then the other thing I was going to say is that like I think a lot of politicians experienced this and when you hear them in retirement chumming it up 20 years later on stage or giving offering tributes to each other and all of that. I think in the heat of a political fight when the stakes are very obvious like and

and they seem equally obvious to the people on office. opposite sides of a fight, right? I think this is going to ruin the city. And you think that what I want to do is going to ruin the city. And we are angry about that and we're budding heads with each other. And we actually think like these underhanded tricks that you guys are playing to try and manipulate this vote or manipulate a public opinion like this is straight up evil. And then 20 years later you look back on it.

And it's not like you've changed your opinion on the main stuff you were debating about, but there's this sense of perspective where you go like, well, he was kind of, he was kind of fun, no, right? Like that fight was kind of like, like, does anybody do that anymore? I think all these tributes to Stephen Lewis are genuine, but I think even from his political

appointments realized in real time, like his oratorical gifts, right? Like, and sometimes you didn't want to be debating on the other side, but you you kind of like take your hat off. And so, I mean, I'm not, but it's just like to say like, I think when somebody like, if Giorgio Mamalidi had announced his retirement,

I would say like, well, what a character and all of that, but I might not have, you might portray it differently. But when you're looking back 10 years later at like the role he played over a while on city council, it's like, well, he was, he was the comic relief in a lot of episodes. He was in the villain in some of those episodes. He was the hero in a very few of those episodes, or the foil at least. but but like nobody who encountered them at city hall will forget him anytime soon. You mentioned Stephen Lewis a moment ago and Stephen's son, Avey Lewis.

Yeah. Is it Avey or Avey? I've been saying Avey. Because I remember Avey, of course I remember Avey from the Chum City Empire, be it the new music or much music and in city TV. So it is noteworthy that the new federal leader of the NDP party, is like a Toronto media guy. Yeah, that is kind of interesting. I mean, I do think it's noteworthy.

It's not like people don't know this, but it is like, like this, he's the third generation of his family to lead the NDP. Like, well, his grandfather was the leader of the federal NDP. His father was the leader of the provincial NDP. Now he's the leader of the federal NDP. It's like, like, that is, like, people talk about the Canadian Kennedys or whatever. Like, that's certainly like the NDP version of, like,

that's a dynasty. Like if Justin Trudeau's kid goes into politics and ends up leading the party. Yeah, sure. Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, and I know, like, Rob and Doug Ford's father was, and now their nephew, Michael, has been in politics and may at some point be in politics again. But three generations is like a direct line of descendants, too, is,

I mean, I don't think the NDP wants to be considered an inherited title. But it seems like between the Trudeau's and the Fords and the Lewis's, it's a cross-partisan habit in Canada to have these children of become the next one. Yeah, like Carolyn Mulroney did run for leadership. That's true. That's true. And who knows what's up Ben's sleeve, you know? He's also now a media juggernaut at your old home there at 640.

So who knows what the future holds. So we're going to hit my two-hour deadline, but on our way out there are, is it three words? You'll tell me if these are three words. We need an update on this for better or worse. Eglinton, Cross Town, LRT. Is that three words or is that like five words? LRT is, that's not a word. Rail transit.

Okay, well, debate amongst yourselves if there are three strong words here. So my update on it is like that's open, it's running, and I actually quite liked it. I went up and took it. It still, it moved. The underground part, it's just a subway, period. Like, that's, like, the trains are streetcar style trains,

like, like the flexities, but they run in pairs right now, like one train pulling another. They have the capability to add a third train if they need to, a third car to the train. But, like, they're quite comfortable,

but the underground portion, like, it runs about the speed of the bluer subway, like and you can get from Black Creek to Young Street in no time. Like, then it comes above ground and it operates a bit more like a streetcar. It seems to me, at least on my, from what I've heard from the reports, but also from my experience of riding it, that it runs faster than the Finch LRT did when I first rode it, but not as fast as the underground portion,

but it's still a pretty decent ride, and you can take it right out to Kennedy Station. And so, you know, we waited for, forever. It cost a mint, like more than we thought. And then we waited forever again. Right. And it was like so many problems plaguing it.

But now that it's open, from everything I've heard and from everything I've experienced so far, it's like, eh, pretty good. Pretty good. And the mayor, Chao says it's going to get better, even better, as they fix the transit priority and all of that. But yeah, pretty, pretty good. Olivia Chow, if you're, and I doubt Olivia Chow. is listening, but somebody on her staff

might be listening, especially when somebody tells them Olivia was the topic of conversation. But if somebody's listening out there, invite yourself on Toronto Mike. You know, I'm not going to pursue you, but if you send me a note and say, you want to come on, we'll make that happen. That would be exciting. Very exciting.

I guess, because I have the two minutes left, this is a big question, and it's a federal thing, and it's so ancient history now, but it made my nose. But what did you personally think of Mark Carney's speech at Davos? speaking of Switzerland in Davos. Do you even remember it now?

This is nostalgia. It's not a strategy. I do. I remember being impressed with it. And I thought, like, you know, a lot of it too is like, well, how do you put wheels to it? But I think it made an impression for a reason, which is that he said what a lot of people were thinking. But also, like, pretty bold, bluntly, like, laid out the plan for how, like, we all got a, we ought to do something different.

It wasn't just like some kind of like attack on, and it pointedly wasn't an attack. It wasn't like, but it was just saying he's laying out, my strategy is like a real politics strategy. I'm going to try and make friends with as many people as I can make friends with and we're not going to agree on everything,

but like, and those of us who are middle powers are going to be powerful by banding together and working at common purposes where we have common purposes and all of that. And it seemed like, Like, there's a level of clarity to that. It was a serious speech.

And, you know, like, people can judge his performance or how realistic that is or how it plays out in the real world situations where he has to, you know, instantly deliver. But I thought it was nice to see a Canadian prime minister on such a prominent stage make such an impression around the world. And the question is, like, in five years, will anybody outside of Canada remember it? I don't know.

I think we live in such a strange world where it felt like yesterday there was some kind of a countdown clock like oh tune in at 8 p.m. and watch a civilization get destroyed. Yeah. What's going on, Ed? I know we're closing out here, but

geez. You know what I mean? I hope we have fewer of those episodes in the future, man. But it really was like a horrifying day yesterday of just like and you're thinking he's probably going to

back off from the break. Well, you're hoping it's Taco Tuesday. Yeah, you hope it's Taco Tuesday. But what if it's not? Like, at a certain point, he gets so over the top that, like, yeah. But I am grateful that he,

that they did have a ceasefire and they did come back. And I'm grateful to be here with you listening to Rosie and Gaye again. Covered by Rob Proof. But it was like yesterday, I was recording, I produced a show for the WPBL, that's the woman's professional,

ball league and we were talking to the commissioner. Justine Siegel. You got it. I know, Justine. She's a co-founder too. Apparently she lived here for a while. In this basement? Not in this basement.

Yeah, she's sleeping around in the front of her. Oh, but in this city. In the city for a while, which I did not know. Fun thing is, we were having a great chat. The host is a professional baseball player named Ashton Lansdell. And I'm sort of the producer, so you don't see me, but I'm there. And I did ask her a couple of questions. And one was like, hey, expansion plans, do we get a franchise in Toronto?

And then she mentioned Montreal. And then I said, I had this moment where I'm like, if you could get the Expos branding, bring back the Montreal Expos. And then maybe there's a caveat in there that should Montreal get an MLB team, you have to give up the branding for the MLB team. Well, they could be called the Gentleman Expos. You know how all these teams are like the Lady Rams or the Lady. And the Gentleman's Expo is a...

Okay, but imagine the Expos return as a W... And again, they're doing a neutral site thing, so all the games are taking place in Springfield, Illinois. But that's just season one's plan. They do eventually plan to play in your own city, right? So L.A. will play in L.A., etc. So I think having a Montreal Expos WPBL, that might be my calling in this podcast.

I might have to make that happen. It would be very cool. How are the, how is our hockey team doing here? The SEPTERS? Oh, my God. I couldn't remember that bricking nickname. How are the SEPters doing? They are fighting for a playoff spot.

And so, you know, there will be more clarity after Saturday, Keep me posted. I will do. Next time I come, let's have more Scepter's talk, although the season will be over at that point. So we'll see. We'll talk about that championship they delivered. All right.

And that brings us to the end of our 1,877th show. Go to TorontoMike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs and buy a ticket or two to see me at the Elma Combo on May 21st. Much love to Ed Keenan. During this episode, I subscribed to First Up. First up newsletter. You can subscribe to it at the Star, Toronto Star. I'm a subscriber now.

I can't wait to read your writings every single morning. Ed Keenan. Everybody should subscribe to the Toronto Star, and I appreciate your visits every quarter. I can't wait to talk to you again in three months. All right. I'm looking forward to it too. Much love to all who made this possible.

That's Great Lakes Brewery. That's Palma Pasta. Don't leave about your lasagna. Nick Iienis, Recycle My Electronics.C.A. and Redley Funeral Home. I got Brad Jones here in one hour's time for life's undertaking. See you all tomorrow.

This was a back-to-back, but who's on my schedule for tomorrow? Oh, this is going to be good. Dr. Brian Goldman. We're going to talk about how realistic is the pit. Is that what is like in Toronto's emergency rooms? That man knows. That's great.

Don't you dare miss it. I'm looking forward to hearing that. See you all on the live stream. 2 p.m. tomorrow, Dr. Brian Goldman.