Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Elephants and Stars: Toronto Mike'd #737

Episode Date: October 17, 2020

Mike chats with Elephants and Stars singer-guitarist Manfred Sittmann about his band Elephants and Stars, working with Ron Hawkins and Ian Blurton, dealing with family members who still support Donald Trump, and the only band that matters.

Welcome to episode 737 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Pumpkins After Dark. Save 10% at pumpkinsafterdark.com with the promo code miked, M-I-K-E-D. CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. Sign up for next week's webinar. I'm literally going to interview Barb Paluskiewicz

in the guise of Elvira, and it should be pretty awesome. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. And Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me this week is an elephant and a star, and I think I've got that wrong,

but it's elephants and stars singer-guitarist Manfred Sittman. I'm gleefully grateful to be here. Is that the truth? Yes. Well, I think you're telling me the truth because you were nice enough to bring me a coffee. Well, I thought it was the least I could do. Honestly, I'm so happy because it's 1052.

It feels a bit early to crack open a cold, fresh Great Lakes beer. You're going to bring some beer home with you. But I got a nice black coffee from Starbucks, and it's a good way to start the morning. Thanks so much, man. Not a problem. And no, I'm absolutely grateful to be here. When we first started talking about things we wanted to do, I actually made a short list that I gave to our manager and said, oh, these would be, I would love to be on these half dozen things. And

one of them was the Toronto Mike show. That's, was I there with like the national, was it like Toronto Mike, the national, what else is a a big thing? What company was I in? Oh, well, I mean, a lot of them were podcasts because that tends to be where I'm listening. So I wanted to be on Born to Roam, the Dirty Nill podcast, and of course the Danko Jones podcast, which I listen to regularly. Today is the one-year anniversary of when Danko Jones was on Toronto Mic'd. It was one year ago today.

Yeah, I listened to that. That was a great episode. I follow him on Twitter. He's a great Twitter follow. And his podcast is actually fun because we share sort of an affinity for Kiss Records. Oh, my God. I was talking to Biff Naked the other day,

and Biff's husband is littered with Kiss tattoos. He's completely obsessed with kiss and i think if you're of a certain age like kiss hits you in that sweet nostalgia bone yeah like i don't quite hit it right to the tattoo point but yeah i sort of caught them on the tail end of them like they were sort of passe when i discovered them so right right well what kind of vintage are you i'm just curious now because i feel like we're similar vintage here. I think we are. You're in your late 40s? Yeah, there's some.

Richard Nixon was president when we were born. Oh, yeah. So I'm like, I think I was born like a month before he resigned. Like I'm like right on. I'm in that Nixon cuss. Yeah, me too. The scandal was just starting. Yeah.

Okay. So we're similar. Welcome to the club here. Good to see you, buddy. Manfred. So when I found out. So Elephant Stars, I follow on Twitter and you tweet as Elephant Stars and remind me, how many, we're going to get to

all this nuts and bolts, but how many members are there in Elephants and Stars? So it's kind of currently in flux. So right now there are three kind of longer time members. We've just added a fourth keyboard player

who's been out with us for a couple months, a guy named Mike Glendon, and he's fantastic. He's one of those guys who can play like every instrument, so we're upping our musicianship. Oh, that's handy, yeah. Yeah, and we're actually trying to bring in, I would like to have a second guitar player eventually, so we're hoping maybe within a month or so

to bring someone out for that. But it's been three of us for the last. Okay. Name check the three of you. So there's Mike McMillan on bass. He was in basically every band I've been in. He was in soap opera and he was in the first time. Where did you meet Mike?

Is he like a high school buddy or something? We met in college. Actually, we were both doing a post-grad in journalism. And it's funny because we sort of didn't meet right away, but our first impressions of one another were funny because you had to announce yourself on the first day of school. And he sort of seemed, not nerdy to me, but he got like a 10 out of 10 on some oral test that we did on the first day and I got like two. And so thought of him was like oh one of these guys and for some reason he thought i didn't speak english that was his he looked at me and thought oh well he saw the name manfred yeah he figured because what what uh is that german the well it's yeah i'm named after the

red baron which is um his name was manfred although i think the the sort of history is english but yeah okay because well in a moment i'll get back to manfred uh and all i think about his name was Manfred, although I think the sort of history is English. Okay, because in a moment I'll get back to Manfred and all I think about when I hear the name Manfred. But who else is in the band? By the way, do you notice how guys our age, every third guy is named Mike? Oh, absolutely. So is half your band Mike now? Half our band is Mike, which is good,

because you always want to have a high Mike and Chris quota in your band. Right, there's a lot of Chris's out there, you us to our drummer who's Chris Chambers he joined us about a year ago right around the time our other drummer left we were just going in to record with Ian and we had a bit of a parting and Chris came in to audition and we had we had actually auditioned quite a few and we had a few more to go and then chris kind of came in and it just sort of felt natural like we at this point in our lives we're kind of really more interested in getting along with the people than you know who their influences may or may not be and uh we just he left and mike and i just kind of looked at each other and said

so we just canceled the rest of the auditions and we we did. Okay, I got to shout out Bryce Valentine because Bryce Valentine says you can never have enough Kiss references in his opinion. So Bryce is just shouting out, he's watching live and enjoys the Kiss references. So litter Kiss references throughout the episode. I can do that all day and all night. One of the reasons I wanted to go on

the Danko Jones podcast at some point is like, I don't even care about talking with my band with him or his, although I would talk about his. We could just talk about KISS for like an hour. That'd be no problem. Danko's one of those rare Canadian artists who's bigger in Europe than he is at home.

And I find that sort of frustrating because I think that there's kind of some weird reasoning as to why that is. And if you follow him on Twitter, I think he sort of shares my opinion on that. So what is that exactly? Well, if you look at, you know, contemporary radio, quote-unquote,

rock radio, quote-unquote, since Living Color's come and gone, they do not play a lot of artists of color on rock radio. And Danko Jones being an artist of color, I mean, he is, his music is. Well, there's lots of Jimi Hendrix on Q107. Well, that's true. But I mean, I sort of post Living Color.

Right. You know, his records are made for rock radio. Like they're short, they're quick, they're riffy. So he's of the opinion, if I'm reading this correctly, that Canadian rock radio is looking for a certain type and that type is typically a white dude yelling yeah and i mean i certainly don't want to uh speak for him um but that's sort of my take and and uh i i'm not so sure that he would disagree with that because

again there's no reason he shouldn't be huge on radio here well we did we did uh talk about it when he a year ago when he came by, and he really works it in Europe. Like, he, I mean, not in COVID times, but pre-COVID, he would, like, go on these long festival tours throughout Europe.

Like, he worked it. Oh, he plays, also, like, he plays in those festivals to, like, what looks to be like 100,000 people. Yeah, yeah. Like, they're crazy numbers. So, he's got, I mean,

he's got something good going there, and it is too bad, because it is basically, what's the song? Bounce. That's the song for the Danko Jones song. You kind of hear, and that's an early song that doesn't really sound like the rest of his stuff, but Danko, very interesting guy. I had a really good experience with him, but, uh, back to Manfred. Okay. So that's you, but Manfred, just in case I get confused of which elephant and or star I have here in my presence today again i know i thanked you

already but again honestly a nice hot fresh uh black coffee here is a great thing to have in a morning episode this is a great way to ingratiate yourself to someone like whenever we go record i always ask if i can stop for someone and smart because it's two bucks for you but a lifetime of good vibes 100 what value yeah honestly what value all right so Manfred's coming over so okay this is the song that starts playing in my head and it's a long one but we can talk over it

just give it a moment to breathe because it is of course a cover of a Bruce Springsteen song but it is the definitive version in my humble opinion I would agree and like a rock radio staple when I was growing up, and I guess since we're the same age,

we have a similar experience, where like this was just sort of like a... How does it sound in the cans, right? It sounds good, right? I love this version. And this is actually the only Bruce Springsteen song to ever go number one.

That is shocking. Yeah, he went to number two with Born in the USA, and then Prince knocked him out. So Manfred Mann's Blinded by the Light is the only Springsteen that went number one. That, my friend, is a fun fact. It is. Keep them coming, honestly. I'll invite you over every week if you bury me in those fun facts. But yeah, Manfred Mann, not to be confused with you, you're Manfred's sit man.

So you're similar. That's right. It's very similar. That was one of the things that I got a lot growing up. Whenever I had to sort of like say my name to people, usually like, you know, when you go to like a restaurant or coffee shop, they ask you your name. Sure. Growing up, it was always like, like Manfred Mann was always the reference.

And now I just give a fake name because I don't really feel like. Well, you could just say Manny, like Manuel Lee used to do. Oh, I used to love Manny Lee. Yeah, Manuel Lee was Manny, of course. Yeah. And then at some point, he kindly asked reporters and such to refer to him by his real name, Manuel. Oh, I never knew that. Yeah, so at some point, we had to start calling Manny Lee Manuel.

Sort of like Joey Bell, right? At some point he's like, call me Albert, right? Do you remember this? I know it's coming back to these. I remember he was Jorge for a while. Well, that's George Bell. Oh, sorry. George Bell.

I do have a, and you're right, I was a big George Bell guy, and I have the baseball card where he was Jorge, because I guess that is his Spanish name. Yeah. He's from Dominican Republic. And then we, as we do, we like North Americanized it or whatever. Although this is where it gets weird. I feel like

we misuse the word North America. We start to talk about North America like it's three countries when in fact North America is 23 countries. Is that right? Like is everything north of the equator? Yeah, Dominican Republic is technically North America. I did not know that.

I know, but we talk about North America like it's just Canada, U.S., and Mexico, but that's not true here. So I'm going to bring back up Manfred Mann. Beautiful. Because I really dig this jam, and I don't hear it enough anymore. But, okay, so we have so much to talk about here. Let's start with the origin story. Okay, so firstly, I need to know what elephants and stars means.

Well, there's actually not a tremendously great meaning behind it. The reference came from a book I was reading called The Moral Arc, which is by this Michael Shermer, who's like sort of one of those scientific skeptic type authors. And in the preface to the book, he talks about that the universe is divided up into two things, things you can see

and things you can't see. And so things you could see, he said the examples would be elephants and stars. And we were actually going by another name at the point we were called The Great American Novel.

We were that for one show. And then we found out there was another band, believe it or not, with that name. And you're Canadian. That's mildly offensive, right? Well, that's the thing. That's what our drummer said. He goes, we're not American. I said, well, a lot of things aren't their band name. The lowest of the low aren't literally low people. So in typical fashion, I sort of threw it out at a rehearsal I said oh that'd be kind of a neat name for a band and then our drummer at the time said yeah let's go with that Mike agreed and that

was the end of the conversation yeah I think lowest of the low is a George H.W. Bush reference right because he made that we are not a nation in decline we are not the lowest of the low that's my George H w hw bush impression there that was not bad it's not very good though well i mean you're very kind i got it you're very kind um yeah i think well i think they actually may have gotten it from a painting originally i think there's a painting oh you know i should know this origin story like i keep because you know at the beginning of uh hallucinogenia or whatever he they have that clip. So I always think that, but you might be right.

I guess you know. So where is the Ron Hawkins connection in the Elephants and Stars story? Since Ron Hawkins is a tremendous FOTM. Yeah, he is. And I think it's actually, that's how I discovered this show was it was the time he came on with Lawrence

was I think the first one I heard. I think he's been on with Lawrence two or three times. Okay. Shout out to Lawrence Nichols. Oh, of course. He's also a great FOTM. He's probably listening right now.

And he's a fantastic guy too. Oh, yeah. So my connection with Ron, we sort of have some common friends. Actually, the band Sour Landside who are from Toronto, I was a big fan of theirs. And I discovered them them they were opening

for the low slow on a new year's eve show and uh i sort of i saw them you know at a club one time at another show and i went up to them i was like oh my god you guys are the guys from sour landslide and they were they were surprised and said yeah yeah we are and uh they had played or i don't know if they had already toured with low slow Lowe so I became friends with them and still am and they're fantastic and so I would sort of bump into Ron places like we'd be at some show and Ron would be there or I'd be there and I also when I was in journalism school interviewed him for a school paper at one point and he

was a really nice guy and so where he came into the elephants and stars universe was sour landslide became the benvereens and they were doing that's a great name benvereens great and uh they were doing a farewell show and so they were inviting all their band friends to come up and do a song with them. And I was lucky enough to get asked to be at that. And obviously Ron and Steve from The Lowest of the Low were there. And I was out front of house getting a drink just before I went up. And Ron was also there. And the bartender was not.

So we had a few minutes to sort of chit-chat a little bit. And I had read somewhere or heard something that he had he had started a home studio yes so i just sort of asked him about it just to kind of like make small talk while we waited for our drinks and um hold on we should let manford man wrap up and then get back to this but put a pin in that don't forget where you are right there She got down, but she never got touch She's gonna make it through the night And before we get back to the Honorable Ron Hawkins, who I think might be the most underrated, underappreciated musician this country has ever produced.

Without a doubt. Without a doubt. Sometimes I can't believe he'll take my call, but of course that call's on a landline because he doesn't have a smartphone. Okay, but that Sometimes I can't believe he'll take my call, but of course that call is on a landline because he doesn't have a smartphone. Okay, but that, I want to give credit there, that Manfred Mann jam, that's Manfred Mann and the Earth Band. Yes.

Which is like a second, because of course, do I diddy, do I diddy. Uh-huh. And Quinn the Eskimo? I don't even remember Quinn the Eskimo. Maybe if I heard it. Yeah, it's one of those AM Gold songs.

Maybe that's one of those ones they removed from radio due to being politically incorrect. Oh, possibly. I feel like I don't know that one. But of course, Do I Diddy, Big Jam, back in the day. And then this is like the, yeah, but that song, the arrangement, that's like most people don't know it's a cover, which is your sign you have a good song, right? True enough.

It's like Aretha Franklin's Respect. It's like, what do you mean that's a cover? Or like all the Jimi Hendrix songs. Oh, that's a cover? Like Hey Joe Jimi Hendrix songs. That's a cover? Like, Hey Joe. Did you know Hey Joe was a cover? I did. Yeah.

Well, you're a musically savvy guy. But my favorite part of that is the way they arranged the keyboards in there. The keyboards become like the hook. Yeah. Oh, no. The arrangement's wonderful and sounded good in the cans this morning. But okay, back to the great Ron Hawkins. Not to be confused with Rompin Ron.

He's a different Ron Hawkins. No, he's a much preferable one to me. Wait, which one? The younger or the older? The FOTM. The FOTM, okay. Yeah, so, I mean, I guess I should probably key into the story too

that while I'm talking to Ron and sort of bumping in at these various places, I was a huge Lois Lowe fan. Anyone who knows me, they were such a seminal part of me forming another band. I played in bands in high school. Oh, nice. But they were kind of like punk rock bands and admittedly were horrible. And then I remember seeing the low solo and just being

blown away and thinking this was just like this is amazing I want to be in something like this I like well I'm I've said this many times on this program I literally closed every episode of Toronto Mike Dove a song from Shakespeare

I'm playing subversives because it's such an underrated jam on that album. But, like, they have that punk, kind of punk quality attitude, but the jangly pop sounds, like the melody, and then it's just, it all comes together in this, like, perfect storm.

Yeah, it's the perfect combination of those things. And I was sort of, I was talking with a friend of mine last week about what genre of music we are, and he said, oh, you know, pop punk. And I said, we're not really punk at all. But we're sort of a lot of... But it's an attitude punk.

Like a clash attitude. Yeah. And a lot of the bands I like, like The Lowest of the Low, are sort of punk adjacent. They're kind of like one genre over. Or there's like elements of punk in it. Like a more accessible punk, if you will. Because it's so accessible, this music, which is why I was always surprised that... I was surprised to find out that they were so much bigger here than they might be in, for example, Vancouver.

Yeah. That always surprised me. I never sort of understood that music could be that regional in this country but yeah it sure was I mean I they were they were as big as any band to me like when I was growing up you know what I think makes you regional in this country and this is me just having talked to a bunch of Canadian rock stars I think it's if you don't get high rotation on much music like i feel like one if you have a video getting high rotation on much music like for example uh pursuit of happiness

or sloan or something like that that sort of stitches this very vast country together like that's sort of where guys i don't know about you but i spent hours watching much music hours i love i still love music videos and and i guess it's sort of indicative of of our age and our generation and how you know influential they were when we were growing up but yeah i know i think you're absolutely right because i think too a band like sloan um or the doughboys if they're getting if they're getting added to much music and they're in rotation while radio stations across the country are going to follow suit right right like even name a band like i've been talking to another uh uh mike from uh kill joys okay like like like there's a band where that video was that the video and then tell me if you remember this

do you remember buying big shiny tunes or am i the only one who's buying a lot of people were buying it i didn't buy big shiny tunes Tunes mostly because my Canadian music tastes were very specific. Like I loved Sloan and the Killjoys and the Doughboys and Change of Heart. But sort of a lot of the bigger acts that would be on Big Shiny Tunes kind of I could take or leave. See, you're right.

It was sort of a weird hybrid of like the CanCon stuff I was looking for and then they throw in like, oh, here's a Bush song. Yeah. Or here's a Garbage song. You're right. like it was kind of a i kind of wish i think that was to sell the sell the units or whatever but i always wish it was kind of like keep it can con like this could be like a can con alt rock greatest hits compilation basically uh but okay so back to the

low uh we are in agreement that that's a fantastic band. And you had this opportunity with Ron Hawkins. And Ron, so Ron was willing to produce some music for you. Is that where that goes? Sort of, yeah. So he didn't produce it per se. So what had happened was is I had gone in, myself and Mike and a drummer, our prior drummer had gone into a friend's studio

and just recorded every song that we had because our drummer was moving away. And I basically didn't want to forget them. So we just did these demos of them, like literally first take, live off the floor. I think we did like 20 songs in a day, something like that. Wow. Where was this? That was my friend's basement studio in Brampton, Mark Robinson.

He ran a studio when he lived in Brampton called Knob Man Studios and we used to go there to do like demos and stuff like that. And so we just did it to have as a reference. And I thought, oh, you know, it would be so great if we could actually finish these properly somehow. So basically what Ron did was take our sort of bass and drum tracks and sort of put a shine on them, I suppose. I'm not that technically gifted, so I don't know actually what he did to them, but made them sound better.

And then I would go into his studio and we'd kind of kick some ideas around and sort of finish them off. So if you look at the credit, it says recorded and mixed by Ron Hawkins because he didn't really get to produce it. He didn't get to do pre-production. He didn't really get to arrange and have ideas,

which a producer would do. So we're listening to a song from the second album, the aforementioned Hallucigenia. And then this is a song that I love more today than I did back then. It's Black Monday. Yeah, this is one of my favorites on this record as well.

And it's so good live. I mean, the band is so good live and then a lot of these songs kind of get kicked up to another level when you hear them kicked out live. So just like with Man for Man, I'll bring it up later.

Okay, so after Black Monday, I promise I'm going to play some Elephants and stars here so so you lay down these tracks is this like for example uh a lifetime is that a jam that you recorded that that is yeah so um that was one of the one basically everything that's on this disc was a result of those sessions basically that off the top session and what's the name of the disc oh the disc is called recovery it's a five song ep okay so recovery has five songs on it and we are going to play some music from uh recovery and uh

like okay how would you just so i know you've described your style but uh how would you describe recovery to somebody before they heard it like well i my personal thing is I always just say we're a rock band, and we were in the studio with Ian this weekend. Ian Blurden. We got to shout out Ian Blurden. I'm going to play some Change of Heart in a moment. Beautiful. And basically I said, you know, what do you think we are? And he said, well, yeah, you are kind of rock, power pop.

But he also said, and I think he's right, that there's like a strong adult contemporary vibe to it it's sort of somewhere between pop punk and adult contemporary which works well for me because those are probably two of my musical obsessions like i i love am gold stuff and i love kind of great melodies um and you know i like black flag at the same time so we sort of live in yeah you're all over over the place, but I think that I might, who was I talking to? Oh,

on Thursday night, I do these pandemic Friday episodes back here. Cam Gordon and I, cause we were talking about, I was listening to a lot of guns and roses in the late eighties, but I was also listening to Paul Abdul. Okay. And I think Stu was like,

he went from guns and roses to Paul Abdul and Cam pointed out, and this is true. And you'll relate to this, that if you're listening to like, let's say you're listening to 680 CFTR, right? Because kids, before it was news, it was top 40, okay? It was.

They would play, they played it all together. Like they, it was, you would have an R&B song next to a, like a pop song, next to a, like a Def Leppard song, like all together. Yeah, and much music was the same way. Like you'd hear Guns N' Roses, and then Bobby Brown would be next. Yeah.

So this whole, like this new phenomenon, and I got teenagers, and they're living in this right now. Oh, hold on. I've got to listen to a bit of this song here. All right, here we go. I won't let you down, let you down. Rest your head. When I come around, come around

Until you know You can count on me, count on me Life by life I see what you see, what you see Na, na Na, na, na, na, na, na, na Na, na Na, na, na, na, na na na na na Thank you. It's 8 degrees in Toronto.

I was going to say, that's got a good post. This song's got a good post for it. It's radio lingo. Okay, tell us, what are we listening to? And I'll turn it up a bit later, but what are we listening to? So this song is called A Lifetime. It was written by myself. And it sort of, I wrote it at around a time I just finished trying therapy.

And the big impact therapy had was my songwriting changed from, like, I had always sort of written sort of these detached stories about other things. And then I decided that I would just sort of start writing about things that were actually going on in my own head. And this is actually one of the first songs I wrote. And it's just basically about if you suffer from either depression or anxiety or anything like that, what you want more than anything else is to sleep. And when you have that, you can't sleep a lot of the time. And it's this kind of great, I don't know if it's irony, but... It's sort of a vicious cycle, really.

It is, and it just makes things worse. And so this sort of marks one of the first songs about actually me. Alright, let's listen to a little bit of Elephants and Stars. around One more tonight of only waiting One more day is on the

ground One more tonight of only waiting One more day is on the ground Now you're right, they're totally accessible. It's got a nice hook to it, nice melody. And it's actually Ron singing backup.

Another fun fact. Wow. Yeah, I dig it man it sounds great in the cans here wow okay so you did this you created this I'm always blown away when musicians go and create

some great piece of music here I can't hold a note the funny other fun fact about this song was so there's a guitar line that starts the song and kind of comes back it's this little sort of three note hooky guitar part and Ron sent me the mix and I just assumed he had put it on there because I hadn't heard it before and I said oh my god I love that guitar line you you put on there and he said I didn't put it on there. You put it on there.

And I said, there's no way. And neither one of us can remember playing that part. Were you drinking heavily that? 100% no. It's just one of those. I think he did. And he's just so. He's so humble.

Like he doesn't want the credit. I think he's just so. It's just this stuff just flows out of him. It's like he just threw it away. He is prolific. Like if you look.is and lo yeah he's got lois and lo yeah he's got the rusty nails yeah he's got the do-good assassins yeah he's got the solo stuff i've loaded up peace and quiet because it's such a beautiful song and i'm probably gonna play it later i love that but if you add it all up like this this any it's constant like the new low the new do-good assassin it all up. It's constant. The new Do Good Is Ass, it all sounds great. It's all so good.

He's such a gifted writer. Tunesmith and wordsmith. He gets all of it right. He's just one of the best lyricists there is. So this part right here, was that it? That guitar part there at the end? Is that the part that magically appeared? Yeah, and it starts at the beginning of the song too.

And this piano bit is also Ron just throwing that in for kicks. What a talented mother effer. Yeah, he's a... I guess I could say a swear word on my show, but he's a talented mofo. We'll put it that way. All right, so here, that was A Lifetime.

And here's the sequel to the great uh rage against the machine uh song another bullet in the head bullet in the head here we go another bullet Turn around and let me breathe until I feel it again You say you never stay but in the end we're staying still again You say it's all the same but different And I seem to disagree You know it's not that easy Okay. Holding in the chamber for me Dying now Okay, another bullet. Now, I need you to tell me what this song is about because to me it smells like a suicide song.

Tell me what this is about. It's not. Okay. Although I do have some about that on the new record. So another bullet is actually, not to sound you know overly um pretentious but it's basically the metaphor for words and when people can sort of be unconsciously hurtful to you with words and and i don't think people realize the power their words have over

others both to make people feel good and to make people feel bad. This particular song is about someone who had said something particularly hurtful. And I just remember thinking like, wow, like certain things people have said to me in my lifetime have stayed with me my whole life. And, you know, it's probably my friends kind of joke with me that I hold grudges a little too quickly like I can remember things that people said to me in grade 6

and I'm still mad about you know you gotta let that go man cause it just eats at you like you're the one you're the victim there I know I'm getting you gotta let that go I'm getting better at it we can do some therapy sessions cause you're right you hold that shit and it's only eating away at your own heart man

and if you could let it go it serves yourself and the the funny thing about it is if i were to tell people objectively what i'm angry about it would seem so innocuous to them they'd be like are you kidding like you're mad about that and right you know so yeah no i definitely gotta get past it a little bit of like uh i hope you don't get offended by this because i mean it with a compliment but there's a bit of like a little stabbing westward kind of vibe in this song you know like a little like just i don't know if you like a song i know you're like save yourself for example which was a big jam from that band there's like there's a bit of a i don't i don't remember that song particularly but i mean there's definitely

a 90s ish kind of thing going on here. So at some point, maybe on your way home or something, go listen to Stabbing Westward's Save Yourself. You'll remember it from the radio when you hear it because I think 102.1 played it a lot. Did you listen to, in the 90s, did you listen to 102.1? Oh, absolutely. Because my favorite part about 102.1

was when they would do the discovery to disc. And, you know, that's how I discovered Bender. Change of heart? Well, I knew change of heart a little bit by the time they were on. But, like, I mean, Bender, the one year and the low Sourland. Like Head? Head was on there, yeah. That's how I discovered them.

They were great. Hayden? Noah from Head actually mastered this disc. Yeah, those are the fun facts. You can't hold on to those, man. You've got to let those go. Yeah, lacquer. It was so great because I was emailing with him about bringing it in to master,

and I said, oh, you know, I met you one time at the Discovery to Disc. I was there the night they won the $100,000. And I said, oh, yeah. Happy. That was the song happy correct could i be happy yeah they're from thornhill i hear that every friday and uh he was like guy that was 20 years ago i was like oh my god yeah it was how you sound like me man i'm always dropping references like it was like oh remember that time a couple weeks ago it was like yeah that was 1992 yeah so

but it was neat because i you know i was a fan of that band as well so it's always kind of neat when you sort of run in those circles and you know noah from ahead is mastering your disc it's neat that discovery to disc stuff like a lot of great stuff there was that was that the one that the bare naked ladies won they won the first one they won the first one okay because then they financed gordon with some of that money i'm gonna get a hundred thousand or something yeah and i'm thinking of like artists i don't hear that much from that i thought i would have on those discs like sarah craig do you remember sarah craig yeah i thought she was gonna kind of like i don't know and i always thought yeah her and and uh holly mcnarland for example and not

to discredit hardly holly's career because it's been tremendous i'm sure she's still creating great music but you always think like like they should be like I don't know Liz Fair or something like they should be like big stars uh yeah it's just great sounds they had Sarah Craig was really good yeah and there's a there's a bunch of great bands on those old discs yeah no doubt no doubt uh no doubt wasn't one of the bands no they weren't no doubt this band no doubt uh so Tragic Kingdom was the big album right and Tragic Kingdom I can still listen to it and enjoy it. It's got that perfect mix of like ska, a little punk sensibility, pop.

You know, then they throw in a song like Sunday Morning, which is just a gorgeous song. But if you listen to No Doubt now, it's completely popified, cheesy pop too. Like Gwen Stefani's taken it over and figured out how to like... Anyway, if you listen to any recent No Doubt, it's taken it over and figured out how to like like anyway if you listen to any recent no doubt it's kind of cringeworthy to me yeah it's not my thing also they were a kind

of a little more ska than i'm generally yeah you know what i think that was i think that was gwen's brother who who was writing all the ska stuff and i think he literally he literally quit the band i believe just after recording tragic kingdom to become an animator on The Simpsons. That's right. Eric Stefani, I think his name is. So there's more fun facts for everybody. I saw them really early in their career. I think it was the Tragic Kingdom tour.

They were opening for the Goo Goo Dolls. And that was before the Goo Goo Dolls, before Name broke, when they were actually still like a rock band. Right. I used to love those guys. Yeah. And then they had Name and they had Right. Yeah. I used to love those guys. Yeah. And then they had name and they had Iris.

Yeah. And then that was sort of, they were on a whole different trajectory at that point. Right. So I'm going to play one more song

from Recovery and then we're going to talk a bit about Ian Blurton. Fantastic. Future FOTM Ian Blurton. Yes.

Another suicide jam? I feel like we should talk. Are you okay? Okay. The blackened sky The rising tide The thoughts you'll know The hours to go Do you still believe

Do you still believe You think you know the answer Or will you sacrifice The one and only reason that you know To end this life

Well done, sir. Excellent. But tell me about this song. It's called End This Life. Yeah, so it's not actually about suicide, although I sort of wrote it in a way that people might think that it was. Just because I find suicide as a concept so fascinating because like basically all of us live our life

trying to do everything we can to not die and then someone else is just like, no, you know what, I'm done. You're right. It's impossible to put yourself into somebody who decides to end their life. It's impossible to put yourself in their mindset. Yeah. So that whole like that exercise is completely a waste of effort and time because you cannot you cannot see what they see.

Like typically when someone ends their life, they believe the world will be better off without them typically. Yeah. Or they're in some kind of pain that we can't comprehend. And so, I mean, I think about that a lot. But this song, End This Life, is actually more about ending a life that you're unhappy with. And I mean, leaving a bad marriage, getting out of an abusive relationship, you know, maybe even, you know, leaving your job if you're miserable at it. Like hitting the reset button. Yeah, where people, the sort of the kind of lyric is that people are just,

they're afraid of what they don't know, which is kind of that sort of where suicide comes in, because that's really what we're afraid of with death, because we don't really know what's going to happen. And that's sort of, I use that analogy for leaving a bad situation, because you think like, well, why don't people just leave bad situations well it's because they don't know where they're going to go you know and there's a lot of fear there i think and that's once just like with someone who decides they're going to end their

life you you can't put yourself in their mindset like you can't if you can't walk in their shoes as they say right so i mean there's a line in here about like great unknowns and that's that's really whenever you want to leave something you always have the sort of comfort of familiarity. And, you know, that's why it's so hard to leave sometimes. That's also Ron on guitar right there. Do you still believe It's funny, there's a bit of a Goo Goo Dolls vibe in this song. You know what? I hadn't thought of it. When I wrote it, I thought it was kind of a rip-off of The Killers,

but now that you mention it, there's definitely a Goo Goo Dolls vibe to it. Resnick? Johnny Resnick? Yes. We always talked at the beginning, they were the Buffalo Band. Yeah, Resnick and Takak is the Robbie. Right, right, right, right. Good stuff though, man. It sounds really strong.

So what does Ron Hawkins think of your of this EP, Recovery? Like, what does he give you? What does he think of this stuff of this uh ep recovery like what what does have you like has he given you what does he think of this stuff um well i i mean i don't know you know what he thinks about when he's you know sitting home alone but right uh he gave us a really nice quote for our bio saying that he liked it so i i'm choosing to take that at face value and i'm assuming he's a massive praise from Caesar 100% all right I'm

gonna play DJ again and go from this jam to another so let's see how I do here Oh. We'll see you to the end. Don't be misguided. Who is chosen when they really have all your friends? Pull the trigger. Pull the trigger. Pop the bullet. Feed the gun. Hit the target. Get it started.

Love is more than number one. Change of heart. I love this song. Oh, dude, you and I both, man. I remember when this song came out, I was like, these guys are going to be so huge. This is the best rock song I've heard in a decade. Another guy, I mean, well, let's talk about him right now.

So this is Ian Blurden's band. I guess Ian Blurden started Change of Heart with Rob Taylor, bassist Rob Taylor. But tell us about your relationship with the great Ian Blurton. Well, I mean, much like with Ron, it started out as just being a massive fan. Like I said, when this record came out, I was obsessed with it. I played it nonstop. And it's follow-up, Steel Teeth, listen i still listen to all their stuff non-stop um and i remember uh i guess would be in the not sure at some point in the 90s i remember do you

remember the band bender from orangeville you know yeah i know you referenced them earlier and i was trying i i couldn't like i couldn't pull it out of my head so they were kind of like a pop punky sort of like green dayish sort of band sure and i i had their cassette and they ended up putting out a cd that ian blurton produced okay and i remember buying it going like oh my god he produces stuff too and i was so jealous of bender because you know my band at the time was kind of floundering and i thought oh my god these guys they they're on the discovery to disc and now they're working with ian blurton and you know they my band at the time was kind of floundering. And I thought, oh, my God, these guys, they're on the Discovery to disc. And now they're working with Ian Blurton. And, you know, they got the kind of world by the tail. And ever since then, I felt like one of the things I want to do is record with Ian Blurton.

And that was, you know, 20 years ago. Right. And then so fast forward, a bunch of stuff happens. And we recently, I guess maybe, was it six months ago, a year, maybe a year ago now when we signed with our current management, uh, Sinclair creative, hi Sherry, hi Glenn. And, um, they knew Ian from just previously working with them. And when we were sitting at a very early meeting and, and we were just sort of talking about like, what are your goals?

What do you want to do? And I said, Oh my one thing I'd love to do is I'd love to record with Ian Blurton. And Mike, our bass player, uh, always felt the same way. So she was like,

Oh, well I know Ian, if you want, I can ask him for you. And I was like, yes, absolutely. Please,

please do that. And you paid it forward because you asked Ian Blurden about appearing on Toronto Mike. Is that correct? I have done that, yes. What was his real react? Tell me the truth. Real talk. Well, Ian, as you'll find, he's a little stoic.

So, I mean, it's not like he's ever going to be super animated about it. But I said, oh, you know, they asked. And he was like, yeah, cool. That was it. You know, give him my info. And, again, he's one of those guys, he wouldn't do it if he didn't want to like he would just say nah tell him i have uh some good references uh from ron hawkins to jay ferguson uh give him the list of references and yourself now you can actually first give a first-hand account of a how much fun

it was uh and b uh how, how physically distanced we are. let him know that like, I mean, if you hawked a loogie at me, it wouldn't reach me. Try it. Try it. No,

I, um, and, um, I beg your pardon. So yeah, the thing with Ian that you'll find, uh,

when he comes on your show is he has done so much and has so many great stories. I mean, starting from the late 80s when he was in Neon Rome right through to present day. Because he's like Ron insofar as he's got multiple bands going on. Yeah, Blurtonia, Come On. Well, Come On's done, but he's in a new band called Ian Blurton's Future Now with... I'm drawing a blank,

and then he's also in Public Animal, which are like, they're both these big, big rock bands, just huge, huge hi-fi bands, and they're fantastic. Yeah, amazing, amazing. And he was in Cowboy Junkies, right? Yeah, he was the drummer.

Right. Yeah, I shared that fun fact with Cam Gordon the other day, and he was surprised. But it is true. It is true. Okay, so that gentleman needs to be a, he's going to be an FOT, I'm sure.

We've exchanged emails, so this is going to happen. Good, good. It's good. And so what's the name of the, so he produced a new EP, is that, or a new album? What is it? It's a new EP. We did six songs with him.

It's going to be called Dreamland. And we're really really really happy with it I mean I knew it would sound good because I from a technical standpoint because I've heard his records with the Weaker Thans and I've heard Bender and you know his records sound amazing but what surprised me was

his pop sensibility like when we were arranging songs or when we were doing takes he would just like on the fly say, Oh, try doing this. And you know, you would do it.

And I could probably point to like six or seven parts on the record where I was like, well, that was a suggestion Ian had. And it's like my favorite part of the song now. Okay. Let me play a jam. Is it okay if I play cars running?

Let's go. Sure. Okay, good. Cause it's loaded up already. Pour on the emotion With one more to go Giving the notion Into the unknown I can't dream alone All you know

Cars running, let's go Cars running, let's go Cars running, let's go Cars running, let's go Cause when the birds go Cause when the birds go Cause when the birds go Dude, I love it. This reminds me of that great CanCon alt-rock I heard in the 90s. It's kind of like a little

Killjoy's flavor. Yeah, a little bit. Very good, very good very good but a perfect example is that guitar riff that little three note guitar riff that keeps coming back yeah that was ian and he basically just i was doing takes and he just pointed out my guitar and he said go there there there there see this and i i've never been a music i never even pretended to be a musician but like it sounds like there's two types of producers like some producers do that and then some are more like just engineers basically he is a producer right yeah like very cool from the pre-production ideas he had to uh you know just the sonic ideas he had but like i said he would just he would just

point he would go like you know three five three five three five go and i you know i'd sit there and try to replicate it the best I could. I dig it. I dig it. I dig it. Okay, I'm going to give you some gifts for making the track, and then I'm going to talk to you about some of your musical influences.

But I want to give you, this is some serious swag you're getting here. It looks pretty serious. Well, let's start with StickerU.com. If you have any, if you want, yeah, look at that. You got a Toronto Mike sticker from StickerU.com. Is that going if you want yeah look at that you got a Toronto Mike sticker from stickeru.com

is that going on the guitar where's that going probably will go on my guitar oh my god I do have one guitar that I sticker up and then I have a guitar that I don't

see I said that because I reached for the sky but you know expected to end up on the Alan Cross put me on his garbage can but you know wherever I can get

so that sticker quality sticker if you want to get elephants and stars stickers and decals and temporary tattoos and all that, you go to stickeru.com. They're great partners of the program. Thank you, StickerU. That's for you.

I have in the freezer for you a palma pasta lasagna. I should have asked this before you arrived. Do you eat meat? I do. Okay. I should be asking that before people arrive because then I can make sure I have a vegetarian for you. But I have a lasagna for you

and you're going to take that home with you. That's amazing. Thank you very much. And the beer in front of you, I know we're drinking coffee because it's early, but you got some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. And because it's October,

you've got a pumpkin ale in there too. And it's a great pumpkin ale because it's a subtle pumpkin flavor. I've never had a pumpkin ale. You're going to enjoy your first pumpkin ale. So you've got your Canuck Pale Ale, some Blonde Lager, you've got an IPA there that's Burst. So thank you Great Lakes Beer. I'm wearing their hoodie today if you're watching on

the Periscope. What do you think of the vibe out here? Like today, I think, I think today is a perfect weather day to be out here. Are you cold? Not at all. In fact,

I brought a hoodie and I'm not even sure that I need it. See, I have a, I have an outdoor heater I was going to bring out. And then I was out here and I'm like, I'm warm. Like, cause I'm wearing a hoodie and I decided this is actually pretty ideal out here.

Yeah. This definitely beats what we would have been sitting in on Thursday. Right. We were going to be Thursday and we, I think one of the wiser decisions I've made, I said, let's pretty ideal out here. Yeah, this definitely beats what we would have been sitting in on Thursday. Right, we were going to be Thursday, and I think one of the wiser decisions I've made, I said, let's do this Saturday morning so we can enjoy it. All right, so I also want to, I mentioned the pumpkin ale. Halloween's coming. If you have not done so already,

you need to get your tickets to Pumpkins After Dark. This is a drive-through event in Milton, Ontario. There's only so many days and time slots left. You've got to do it, like literally, you've got to do it right now. Go to pumpkinsafterdark.com, and when you buy your ticket, use the promo code miked, M-I-K-E-D, because it'll save you money. It's honestly, do it for the kids. Save Halloween for the kids.

Although we're shelling out. My wife's building this chute. Like it's like a, you put the chalk so we can be like 10 feet away and we drop the candy in there and it comes out the chute for the kids. So I don't know how many kids are going to be trick or treating, but we are shelling out. That chute sounds like that would be worth the trick to the house. You come back on Halloween night. I think it's a Saturday night. You come back, you get some Kit Kats or whatever. Yeah, I just want to see it.

Yeah, I'll definitely tweet a photo of it once it's up and running there. Barb Paluskiewicz. Barb is going to be dressed as Elvira for a webinar next week. Go to cdntechnologies.com and under resources, there's a webinars tab and you can sign up for this webinar. And I'm going to interview Elvira. Barb, of course, is with CDN Technologies. They're there if you have any computer or network issues or questions. They're your outsourced IT department.

So if you have a network of any kind of network, computer network, and you need to outsource your IT, talk to Barb, 905-542-9759 okay back to the jams so uh we played we played uh cars running let's go sounded great that's from the ian blurden produced uh ep which is going to be called remind me it's going to be called dreamland dreamland oh dream that's northern pikes no it's teen land i know i'm just kidding here all right let's talk about your influences sure i excuse me i'm all choked up talking about your influences but uh i did a little uh you know

a little advanced research on you so i'm going to play some songs i think from bands that have influenced you okay and then we'll talk about them so this is exciting here we go so Oh yeah Oh yeah Still she won't be forced Against her will Says she don't do drugs But she does the pill Oh yeah

Oh yeah I didn't want to hurt you Oh yeah I didn't want to hurt you Oh yeah Oh, yeah So she likes my hair Teenage fan club. Absolutely adore this band. I love... From...

Well, their first two records weren't really that known over here. But so this one, Bang Wagon S, when that came out, that was very eye-opening for me. Critical Darlings, right? Yeah. But I always felt this band sort of like, yeah, Critical Darlings, but not necessarily commercially successful Teenage Band Club. No, I mean, I think in England they were more so, but no.

They're Scottish, right? Yeah. So yeah, you're right. They're much, much bigger in the UK. But the fun fact about this record is, I think, 91, when it came out, was the same year as Nirvana's Nevermind. And Spin Magazine named this the best record of the year. And a lot of people

feel that's a faux pas I do not, I still like this record better and I think as time goes on that choice seems more prescient is that the word I'm looking for? I think Nevermind and I love Nevermind because of the age I was when it came out and I played it a billion times

but for me if I go to Nirvana now I find I go to In Utero or I go to the Unplugged in New York is like where I end up going yeah I mean Nirvana was kind of always existed more on my peripheral just the big singles right these monster singles you couldn't really avoid

yeah I mean I'm not going to sit here and pretend I didn't know who they were but yeah who is this band Nirvana? by the way there's a band I just saw on a poster the other day. They're called... Not Nirvana. They're called Nivrana.

They spelled the exact same way and they switched two letters and I thought, that's an interesting choice. Yeah, interesting. But yeah, I love teenage fan club. And fortunately or unfortunately a lot of my songwriting you can trace right back to them

and certainly parts of it too like we have one song that we haven't recorded yet where it is such a flagrant rip off that's one of the reasons I haven't wanted to record it yet we don't call that a rip off we call that an homage

an homage yes right the H is silent okay so this is the concept so this is from bandwagon-esque and uh yeah that was a that was a big album from teenage fan club yeah it's sort of they were on saturday night live and they toured they toured with nirvana i mean you thought the sky's the limit for them and then not so much did you you like the Tragically Hip? I did. I mean, certainly... Have you heard of them?

No, I'm just kidding. I used to play hockey against one of them, and I think growing up in this country, they're going to be on your radar. They were never amongst my favorite, favorite, favorites, but I mean, Locked in the Trunk of a Car is such a fantastic song. I bring them up mainly because this is today, is the third anniversary of Gord Downie's passing today.

Is it three years already? Yeah, I got to meet him a couple times. He was such a nice person. I remember watching that last concert sort of, cringing's not the right word for it, but I just remember being so aware of what was going on. It was really hard to enjoy. Well, that's sort of how I felt when I saw them live in that last tour.

I think they had the three nights in Toronto and I was in the middle one and I was alone because I could only get one ticket and I went alone. And yeah, it was like, they're the hip. They sound like the hip. They sound great, but you can't escape the fact that you're sort of saying goodbye to somebody you...

Yeah, that was the feeling I had, and it really was unpleasant for me to watch it. It really hit home for me watching it going like, this guy knows what's happening, and we all know what's happening, and it's hard for me to kind of like three-finger devil sign right now. You know what I mean? I know.

I get that completely. I totally get that. But yeah, three years ago today, he passed away. All right. So Teenage Fan Club, big influence. And well, here's another band. This might be the only band that matters. I'm all lost in the supermarket I can no longer shop happily

I came in here for a special outfit Guaranteed personality I wasn't born so much as I fell out Nobody seemed to notice me We had a hedge back home in the suburb Over which I never could see I heard the people who live on the ceiling Scream and fight or scare and leave

Hearing that noise was my first ever feeling That's how it's been all around me I'm all lost in the supermarket I can no longer shop happily I came in here for a special offer Guaranteed personality I'm all tuned in, I see all the pros The Clash Their best album too

London Calling is such a For a double record To be as strong as it is Is almost unheard of Yeah Monst I spent In high school

I think there was a period Of like six months Where the only cassette I had in my Walkman Was London Calling Yeah I went through A real London Calling Phase as well,

where I just listened to it ad nauseum, non-stop. I think that was right around the time I was starting to learn to play guitar. So most of the first songs I ever learned were Clash songs. And the attitude, just the whole, like, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of bands that sound like your band will sort of say, you know, the Clash because their punk attitude. But this song you're listening to right now, it's not just a noisy punk song.

This song is, they can write melodies and hooks and songs like this. Yeah, no, they were much better musicians, I think, than people would give them credit for. And certainly much better songwriters. And Joe Strummer was another great lyricist. And I think you can see a bit of lineage from The Clash to Lowest to Low and Joe Strummer to Ron Hawkins.

I mean, I think that you can definitely draw some early comparisons there. Without a doubt here. Without a doubt. What's your favorite song on London Calling? I'd maybe say Spanish Bombs or The Clampdown. Yes, I almost played that one, actually.

I love the lead guitar line in Spanish Bombs quite a bit. And I love the sort of high harmonies they do at the end of the verses. And Clampdown's just a great rock and roll song. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, speaking of Ron Hawkins,

there's a jam I promised I'd play, so I'm just going to play it, and then I want to hear about sort of the future or the goals or the elephants and stars blueprint here. Here, let me kick out one more song. This is solo Hawkins, I believe, is how you credit this one. Hey there, tragic one. I saw your ghost in Kensington.

The sly sentry of the alleyway. A wounded soldier from the bad old days And it took me somewhere I haven't been for years and years Old appetites like souvenirs

I turned around, you disappeared Into a stream Steeped in silence I'm a sweet Peace and quiet The lights never go down Are you a Maple Leafs fan? I was wondering if you were going to ask that.

So I was. The video for this that I think Tim Thompson did. Yeah. Downlist. F-O-T-M. Tim Thompson. I'm a fairly stoic person myself, and I get choked up every time I watch that video. But I will tell you, I guess it was around 92.

When was the Leafs made it to the semifinals? Oh, 93. Gretzky, High Sticks, Gilmore doesn't get called? That's like spring 93. That was the last Leaf game I ever watched. Really? Yes. I have a Buffalo Bills story like that.

I was so angry that that call was not made, that Gretzky was not ejected, and that he stayed on the ice and scored the winner. I was so furious. I said, I'm never watching hockey again. Okay, but the next season, when we're back in the conference finals, because we got back the next year, you weren't tuning in? Nope. I never watched it. No Bob Cole

and Harry Neal for Manfred? No. No, I missed all of that. Wow, that's impressive. Yeah, I mean, it was a bad call, but again, just like when you hold on to those grudges. That's what I mean. You're only hurting yourself.

I know, but that video is so good. The funny thing about the song when it came out was Vince from Sour Landslide, who I referenced earlier, he was at a party with Ron, and Ron played him the record before it came out. And I asked Vince, I said, oh, how is it? And he said he's got a song on there called Peace and Quiet. He goes, it's the best song he's ever written. And, you know, being a fan of the Lost of the Law,

I was like, well, let's just pump the brakes on that. We'll all be the judge of that. By the way, it's one of the best songs he's ever written. Yeah, I know. It's so good. It is so good, which is why I wanted to play it again today when you were caught. Any excuse, really, but it is so good.

And it's good in the Maple Leafs context. Of course, it was not written about the Maple Leafs, but Tim Thompson, he's just so good at that, and it fits so perfectly. But it's just such a great song on its own, even without the Leafs montage. It is, because I actually heard it and knew it before the Leafs montage,

but now I can't hear it without thinking of Nikolai Boroshevsky tipping that goal in. Right. And I watched that video with my son. I'm like, oh, that's this game. And, you know, Lanny McDonald did this and Nick Boroshevsky did that. Do you have any Lanny McDonald Maple Leaf memories? I don't have them. Like, I actually have been searching my brain, and I think maybe I...

The goal against the Islanders? See, I don't have it in my brain. I don't have them. I actually have been searching my brain, and I think maybe I... The goal against the Islanders? See, I don't have it in my brain. I don't have the memory. That was the overtime game that sent them... What year was that? 79? Around there. I was just too young to be soaking in Leaf TV.

I was in the hospital. I watched that goal from a hospital bed. And maybe that's why it sticks with me so much. Anyway, they went to play that juggernaut Canadians team and were obliterated in four hospital. I watched that go from a hospital bed. And maybe that's why it sticks with me so much. And then anyway, they went to play that Juggernaut Canadiens team and were obliterated in four games. Fuck Harold Ballard. Can we say that?

Yes. And Punch Imlach. Right. Punch, Punch Imlach. And that's true. All those, like when Tim Thompson puts the voiceovers over the song, I hear them in my head when I listen to the song. there's like we'll beat him in the alley or whatever yeah oh he's so it's it's so well done okay my friend so uh this is the time where i find out uh what's next like what is a canadian band like elephants and stars like you can't quit your day job right

like this isn't so i mean you tell me if you can i mean ron hawkins is the only guy i know who seems to you know not have to you know work a job to to pay his mortgage or whatever because he's a musician through and through and uh uh like like what what what what happens with elephants and stars when covid disappears because one day they tell me it will be gone just like a miracle that's That's what I heard from the POTUS there. Don't get me started on that guy. Anyway, I hope he gets pounded, like resoundingly defeated. I hope this is a humiliating, devastating defeat for the man next month. Yeah, I'm of the mind that it's going to be a bit of a bloodbath.

I think that they're going to lose the Senate, which is actually the more important of the mind that it's going to be a bit of a bloodbath. I think that they're going to lose the Senate, which is actually the more important of the two because if they win the Senate, then they can just impeach them the next day if they want, which they would. So yeah, I'm really hopeful because I feel like these last four years we've been living in almost a dystopia.

Yeah, it's a bit of a Handmaid's Tale type vibe going on. It really felt like, especially when COVID hit too, you're like, wow, we can't even go outside anymore? And I will say that, yeah, and we, you know, here we are nicely in the backyard,

but I mean, really, you know, winter is coming, as they say, but it's, there's this, whether you like focus on it or not, because I really do a pretty good job of ignoring Donald Trump stuff. Like I've been doing this for four years.

I ignore most of it. Some of it is such noise that you kind of can't ignore it and you need to still, you know, stand top of the news or whatever. But still there is a cloud, like I don't know how to describe it. It's like there's this anxiety cloud that sort of hovers. It's a weight.

And it's sort of because of, I want to call it like the instability of like this monster country to this you know just to the south of us humongously nuclear power and and all this and they're just sort of like uh unstable yeah like it's really kind of uh shine the light on how flimsy that system they have there is because you always think well there's all these checks and balances but you know you get the wrong person in there and they undo some of those checks and suddenly it becomes very scary yeah and like i'm i mean the whole like religious uh vote to for a republican regardless of who it is. Like it could be regardless of who the human being is.

The Republican candidate because of this promise to sort of, if someone on the Supreme Court passes away and this is happening right now, they're going to put somebody on the Supreme Court

who has personal beliefs that abortion is murder, for example. And that whole, like that nugget alone, it doesn't matter, nothing else matters. No, that's it. To quote Metallica.

Yeah, and that's unfortunately what guides their vote. And I have family in the States who are pro-Trump and that's their reasoning. They're like, well, we're conservative, so we vote for this guy. And I said, there's no other criteria. You have no principles or morals or personal ethics that

would be Trump, no pun intended, would Trump that. Yeah. And that's what I said. Like, you really, like, you're okay with the racism? You heard Ron said, right? When you heard Ron, he was in the backyard, I don't know, about a month ago. And he said, basically, when he does his Zoom,

his virtual performances for people uh not zoom it's actually facebook but the tommy douglas tuesdays he stopped down and he's like if you're supporting trump this music is not for you yeah please leave this you know and like he basically doesn't he's he's have the like he says he gives you a pass for voting for him in 2016 because maybe you know blue collar this and collar, the Rust Belt and all that. But he says in 2020, if you're voting Trump, he doesn't want you listening to his music. No, because there's no more, oh, I want a guy who runs the country like a business or whatever excuse you were giving yourself in 2016. Or you want to disrupt the status quo with a non-politician. Yeah, whatever you were going with.

But now you've seen the racism and the white supremacy and the misogyny and the abusive language and the criminality. You're now giving all of that a pass. And I think the word he uses is you're either a fascist or a cretin. And I'm sort of inclined to believe him. I think at this point, if you're still on board, you're basically okay with all of that stuff. So how do you, like, I don't have any friends

or family members that are pro-Trump still. Because I don't know how I'd personally handle it. Like, how do you handle that? Not well. We don't really speak. Because I just, I think it exposes a lot about you as a person if you're okay with that sort of thing. And people say like, oh, you know, you should be able to disagree on politics.

Yeah. See, this is not politics. Politics is policy. Yeah. You want to talk education bills? You want to talk, you know, deficit spending? Yeah, taxation. The climate tax, whatever.

My, you know, my father-in-law was a conservative, and we could talk politics all day and all night. Yeah. taxation, climate tax, whatever. My, um, you know, my father-in-law was a conservative and he, we could talk politics all day and all night. This is, it's like, if so, if one of my friends joined the Ku Klux Klan, I wouldn't be friends with that person anymore. That's we're, we're kind of through the looking glass of, of politics now. And, and I think that's a flimsy excuse to say like, Oh, you know, you should be able to disagree. No, I don't think the Ku Klux Klan is right. I don't think the proud boys are right. I think all those people are a bunch of frightened morons. And I think anyone who supports that is probably not too far from that ideology. So yeah, I have no time or patience for that. So what is next? Like what is your hopes and dreams for

Elephants and Stars? So there's sort of two, I guess. There's the while COVID's happening and when COVID is over. So while COVID is happening, we're just planning to continue to record. So Dreamland's going to come out probably early 2021. We've already submitted a budget to Ian to record another record with him. We've submitted a budget to Ron to do a full EP where he gets to produce and pre-produce and the whole thing.

So that's going to happen. So where does that money come from? It comes from, you're looking at it. Your savings? Yeah, my savings. And we split it with the other guys in the band. We all work and we all kick in. And to be honest, it's not like the other guys in the band. We all work and we all kick in.

And to be honest, I mean, you know, it's not like Ron costs $100,000. You know, he's a little more reasonable than that. And Ian's the same way. So, you know, that's a big thing for us is we want to record as much as we can in the short term. And then I remember when we were first signing up with our manager, they gave us a form. They said, okay, who are all the bands you'd like to play with? And I just, to me, you don't get what you don't ask for. So I was like, Lowest of the Low, Blue Rodeo, like every band that I love.

I'd like, you know, if Superdrag gets back together or whomever, you know, The Beaches. I'll play with any band that I love. I'll ask to come play with them. I'm completely shameless in that regard. I'll straight up ask. So that would be, that would be sort of like the post COVID wish would be to get some shows with some bands that I admire. I think that's. Oh man, I can't wait. I can't wait for that post COVID moment where I can go to a Lois Lalo concert and hear Elephants and Stars opening for Lois Lalo.

Yeah, well, you and me both. I know, I mean, I don't think we're alone in that. Like just the whole, like, I saw them recently. I saw them in the winter at, where the hell was I? They did the Horseshoe Tavern and then the next lees palace that's how i cannot remember this so long ago when i was at concerts but i saw him at lees palace uh and like

i mean it's as good as as good as they ever were of course fantastic okay so uh that's that's your plan there uh is there any uh i mean you you listen to the program just before I play another song from Shakespeare, My Butt, to play us out here. Is there any other FOTMs you have any association with that I should know about? Well, you had Em Griner on the show. Oh, yeah. And we brought her in to sing backup

on the first time we were a band on the one and only record we did. She sings backup on the when the first time we're a band on the the one and only record we did um she sings backup on a song called uh why do you do this to yourself i love him i loved her anyway but i really love her because she wrote a song for my buddy mike kick when he was dying in the hospital she wrote a song for him yeah yeah well she was so nice like when when she was in the studio with us uh she just she couldn't have been nicer about it. And of course she's such a total pro. She walked in and like one or two takes, like, you know, boom, it was done.

And she was, I'm trying to remember. Yeah. She was doing a backup with, uh, with David Bowie. Uh, if I, if I have, I believe she went on tour with David Bowie. I think she had just come back from that when she did the vocals for us. Yeah. It's funny. Cause she came on my show just shortly before Bowie passed away and we had a lot of Bowie talk on that

episode. But yeah, I love M. Greiner. Anyone else? So Ron Hawkins, M. Greiner. That's a pretty good list right there. Anybody else? Here I am. You've had the Blue Rodeo guys on, right? You know what? I haven't. Oh, I thought I saw. Can you hook me up? Well, if we're

going to throw a fun fact around, the drums on Dreamland are actually played by Glenn Miltram of Blue Rodeo slash Ian Blurton's Future Now, which Ian was kind enough to set up for us because our drummer left just the week before we were supposed to go in to record. Oh, and that was Chambers? Chris? No, Chris ended up replacing him.

Oh, I got you. He's like the long term. So our drummer left. We had the scheduling thing done, and Ian's like, well, I'll... He's like the long term. So our drummer left. We had the scheduling thing done and Ian's like, well, I'll get you a fill-in guy. And his quote-unquote fill-in guy happened to be one of the best drummers in the country. Like yourself, I love Blue Rodeo too.

Fantastic. Blue Rodeo, I always... I mean, there's so many Canadian bands I love, but speaking of underappreciated bands, because we've been talking about Lowest of the Low, I just want to shout out Sky Diggers real quick here. Because Sky Diggers is so good, right?

Just so good. I just want to shout them out here while we're talking music. Even their solo stuff, like the Cash Brothers solo stuff was really good as well. Amazing. Dude, you were amazing. dude you were amazing for your debut

like for your toronto mic debut you hit it out of the park and what a beautiful saturday morning and thank you for the coffee and uh the conversation man oh thank you like i said i've uh wanted to come on for a while so much success to elephants and stars thank you and uh can't wait for covid to disappear so i can see in concert thank you you'll put me on the guest list right i don't have to pay for that ticket to no way that's the only reason i had you on kidding all right thanks so much my friend uh make sure i give you that lasagna from palma pasta before you go it's in my freezer here don't disappear we gotta take that photo and that I need to check the number

believe it or not because I don't know. Oh, 737. Of course. Okay. And that brings us to the end of our 737th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Manfred, you're at Elephants

Stars. Did I get it right? Yes. Elephants Stars. So elephants with an S at the end and then stars because I guess you didn't have enough characters. Yeah. Right. I've had that problem. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta.

Sticker U is at Sticker U. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Sign up for that Elvira webinar. You won't be disappointed. And Pumpkins After Dark are at Pumpkins Dark. See you all Monday when Ben Rayner is back here and we're going to

catch up with Ben and we're going to kick out a bunch of his favorite songs and I can't wait. He might start a fire. That's what he said on Twitter, yeah. He does that. He just starts fires and so I gave him permission might start a fire. That's what he said on Twitter, yeah. But he does that. He just starts fires. So I gave him permission to start a fire. So tune in Monday night. See you then.

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