Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Elliotte Friedman: Toronto Mike'd #107

Episode Date: January 20, 2015

Mike chats with Elliotte Friedman about his years at The Fan, Headline Sports / The Score, CBC's Hockey Night in Canada and Rogers Hockey. We talk Howard Berger, Damian Goddard, Bobcat, Corsi, Glenn Healy and more.

Welcome to the 107th episode of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything, often with a distinctly Toronto flavour. I'm Mike from TorontoMic.com and joining me this week is Hockey Night in Canada analyst Elliot Friedman. Welcome, Elliot. Thank you for having me, Mike. Were you named after former Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau? No, no, no. I was born in 1970, so I wouldn't have been named after him. My parents don't even spell it the same way. I do remember, though, as a kid, I got a chance to meet him in a tour when I was about nine years old.

Cool. And I said to him, my name is Elliot, hoping it would impress him and he didn't really care. He was unimpressed. He was unimpressed. He said, fuddle-duddle. No, he did not say that to me.

He was too polite for that. He shook my hand and smiled and that was about it. That's funny. My regular co-host, Elvis, is a big Western,

he's a big Western fan. Like, he went to Western University and he swears by all things purple and Western. And, like, about a year ago, we were chatting about guests we should invite on.

And he said, okay, he said to me, Mike, he goes, there's two guys I can get on this show through my Western connections. This is him talking. I hope he's listening. And one, he said, is Greg Brady from Brady and Walker. So he made some calls or emails. Next thing you know, he comes on in with Greg Brady. The other, he says, is Elliot Friedman. He goes, I had breakfast or brunch or something with him.

Now we're going to find out. He fabricated the whole story. But he said, yeah, he had some connection. And I kept waiting and months would go by. Finally, I just said, I'm going to reach out to Elliot. Well, you tweeted me and I was back to you like within a day or something. Yeah, no, you're right. And I don't know if Elvis was just doing it wrong.

I'd have to really figure that out because I'm generally not somebody who ignores people. Only angry tweeters. Those are the only people I really ignore. Oh, yeah. Well, I just had Mike Wilner on and he's like a professional Twitter blocker. Well, he's also a professional Twitter troll. Like, Wilner knows how to store them up. Like, I can only imagine Wilner sitting,

I don't know what he uses, if it's a BlackBerry or an iPhone or an Android or what he has. I picture him with a BlackBerry. Yes, I can only picture him, like, putting together a tweet and knowing as he's about to hit the send button with the smile,

knowing what it's going to do to people. That smirk, I think I witnessed it. Yes. And you're doing a great job, but on the mic, even a little more. Oh, sure. I know it sounds really intimate with that microphone.

No worries. Yeah. I'm used to being all over the place. You know what I asked my friend who recommended, these are like, for a guy like me, these are expensive mics. And he's telling me,

I was telling him, May Potts was in here last week. And I'm like, she's like wandering about. And I'm like, oh, you got to get on that mic. And then she's telling me, in the radio station, she tells me about these like multi-thousand dollar microphones where you can like wander and it's no difference.

Yeah, I've never seen those before. But I worked at CBC. Maybe they weren't in the budget. So I've never seen anything like that. I get that austerity. We can't afford those. So please tell me, I first came to know you from The Fan. Yep.

Can you tell me how you ended up on The Fan? Sure. I wanted to be a sports writer when I was a kid. That's all I ever wanted to be because I knew as a hockey player I would make a great sports writer. great sports writer. And I went to Western because one of the things I researched was that Western had a student newspaper that sent a lot of people into professional journalism. So that's why I went there. I still don't have my degree from Western.

Wait, this is breaking news. So you've never graduated. No, I've admitted that before. I'm actually very, because I don't want anyone to think I'm like Jag Baduria, like I lie about my resume. So I admit I never graduated. I bought a four-month planner at school there and I'd put up when all my assignments were due and maybe I'd get them done. So I worked at the Gazette, which was the student newspaper there for a number of years. And when I left school, it was 1993 and the economy had cratered and you

couldn't find a job for a long time I kept all the rejection letters I got and it was a fire hazard yes well they actually got lost in a flood but I had them and what happened was I got a job at a free Toronto sports paper called the sports pages an advertising firm started it up and it lasted two issues and then it folded okay and so i was basically from september of 1993 until april of 94 i was struggling to get by. And my father had a contact at the fan. And he kept on saying to me, why don't I get you to meet this person? And I was like, no, no, I'm going to do this myself.

I'm not doing this with any contacts. I tell people now, don't be that stupid. If somebody can help you open up a door. Grease the wheels a bit. Don't be an idiot like I was and waste eight months of your life. So finally, my dad contacted that person. And also I wrote to Dan Schulman and just asked if I could talk to him. And between those two guys, they kind of helped open up the door for me. And that was April 1994.

Did we get to reveal the first guy's name? It was actually Howard Berger's dad. Okay, I got you howard burger and and uh and howard burger's father and my father know each other okay so but i didn't want to do it that way so i um i sat there and i was like struggling and finally the door opened and i took advantage cool now um those days at the fan how many years were you at the fan? Three. And this is fan 590. When I was there, first started, it was fan 1430.

And during my time there. What year was that switch over? I want to say it was 1995. I was at U of T and I'm going to tell you, I think it was 95 as well. 94, 95. Okay. Yeah, possibly. Great. Now, who are the people you remember at the fan? The good guys at the fan? Most of them were really good guys, possibly. Great. Now, who are the people you remember at The Fan that – the good guys at The Fan?

Most of them were – The name drop here. Most of them were really good guys, Mike. Like I've learned in life like 99% of people are good people, at least that we come across, and 1% are complete idiots that ruin it for everybody else. Okay, now I want to know the 1%. Well, I'll tell you. Like, you know, most of the people that were really good, like Scott Metcalf was now the news director at 680 News. He was like – i'll tell you the best pieces of advice i ever got

when i covered the raptors there you know those were long days you you you go to the shoot around at 10 in the morning and then you do whatever all day you go back to the station you cut your tape maybe you do a hit or two for the station then you go back to the game it started you'd do a hit or two for the station. Then you'd go back to the game. You'd be there for 4, 4.30. The dressing rooms would open at 5.30. You'd schmooze. You'd talk to people. The game would start at 7. The game would end at 9.30, 10.

You'd go back. You'd cut all your tape. You'd go back to the station after doing all your interviews. Those were long days. And I remember I started to get tired. And Scott Metcalf, he me into the one of the studios he said Elliot um here's your voiceover from the Raptor game last night and uh he said to me you sound a bit tired there are you tired and I you know I was always honest with Scott I said yeah

I felt a little bit tired and he said Elliot you know you're you're a good reporter but this is the life you know like if you're gonna do this job that this is the life. If you're going to do this job, that's the way it's going to be. I can't have you sounding tired on these voicers. And if you are, I can always go get someone else. And that was the last thing. And that's when you started

your asphetamine, your speed habit. I was like that episode of Family Ties with Alex P. Keaton on speed. I remember that because I remember they used part of that in the opening credits where he kind of spin in his chair. He slides along in his chair and he kind of gets the book like that. That was a pretty good episode. Yeah, we're dating ourselves though. I started drinking Jolt Cola again.

Jolt was like the crack cocaine of my school year. Your university exams. Yeah. So that was a great lesson. And that was the only time I needed to be told that. But the other great piece of advice I got was from Bob McCowan, who told me once, you know, he said to me, I think you have a chance to do this business. And that was Bob's way of paying you a compliment.

And he said to me, you know, I just said, like, you know i just said like you know what advice would you give me and the thing that really stood out and it stood out with me for 20 years is how are you on profanity on this show you can swear okay it's explicit because i want to give i want people to hear the unvarnished truth he said elliot don't fuck with happy and i was like what do you mean? And he said to me, you're going to meet a lot of people in this business. They'll jump, make you jump for five. They'll jump somewhere for $5,000 more or $10,000 more, and they'll be miserable.

Now, he said, all that's relative. Sometimes, you know, $5,000 or $10,000 means a lot, and you have to do it. But if you're ever in a spot where you make you're lucky enough to make a decent income if you're going to leave a situation where you're really happy make sure they really make you leave and that is totally true in 20 years i have learned that that was the best single piece of advice i received i haven't moved a lot i went fan score score cbc, CBC Now Sportsnet. And I probably would have been at CBC for the rest of my life if things hadn't changed.

And it's totally true. I had opportunities to go other places during the middle. I was like, you know what? I'm pretty comfortable here. And in all of those cases, I ended up making the right decision based on my own personal happiness with where I was or where I could go. So I really think that Bob, I was lucky at 25 years old, Bob felt it necessary to give me that advice. Hey, could you get Bob on this show? You know, he's a guy I'm thinking I need to talk to as well. I'm sure you could probably do it. Absolutely. I think I have a hook in because I believe his wife is like a crazy Humble and Fred fan. And I'm involved with their program.

So I'm thinking maybe there's a side door. Well, I know Bob was tight with Humble and Fred for a while. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there was a time he was actually kind of promoting them for the morning show at the fan. Was he? I believe so. I heard that. No, I don't think that's the case now.

But now they want Dean Blundell, right? You can wink if that's true. Have you heard that one? We've all heard the rumors. I don't know if that's the case now. But now they want Dean Blundell, right? You can wink if that's true. Have you heard that one? We've all heard the rumors. I don't know if that's true or not. But, you know, I think I know that this was a couple years ago I heard that. So I feel very comfortable in mentioning it now. Okay, so Humble and Fred, last time they were together on Terrestrial Radio was the Mix 99.9.

Yep. And then they both got canned from there. So that was back in, oh, I'm going to say Howard got fired from there in 06. But weren't they like in Oshawa somewhere or something? Okay, well, they do a podcast. Yeah, okay.

And they did a deal with Rogers where they put it in Kingston. So Kingston, K-Rock in Kingston would air the Humble and Fred podcast live in the mornings, if that makes sense. Complete failure because people in Kingston hated the fact that this morning show came out of like Etobicoke. Well, I would too if I was from Kingston. They hated it. People are very provincial about that kind of thing. I think two listeners maybe.

It's a tough spot for them because first of all, those guys were geniuses and still are geniuses, but they were geniuses when they were hosting. So did you grow up listening to Humble and Friends? I listened to them a lot. As a matter of fact, I'll tell you a funny story. Tell me. In 2002, the Maple Leafs are playing the Carolina Hurricanes

in the Eastern Conference Final, and I'm still at the score then, and Tiger Woods comes to Toronto to do a clinic for American Express. So you had to take the ferry out to Toronto Island or wherever they were doing it, and I'm sitting on the ferry with them. And this is the day before the Leafs and the Hurricanes are going to play game six. The Leafs have just beaten them the night before. So they're like,

you know, Elliot, who do you think is going to win tomorrow night? Are the Leafs going to force game seven? I said, no, I think Carolina is going to beat them. I think Carolina is going to win.

They ripped me on the air the next day. They were like, we were on this, the ferry with Elliot. He said, Carolina, it was pretty funny. That is funny, we were on this, the ferry with Elliot. He said, Caroline, it was pretty funny. That is funny. My buddies called me

in the middle of it and they're like, turn this on now. So I heard it. Yeah. I loved it. I thought it was great. That's amazing.

Yeah, that's probably like the Mojo years, I guess. Because I know in early 01, they leave 102.1 for Mojo. Yeah, I remember what a big deal that was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They'd been there a long time.

Did Mojo ever contact you? You seemed like you'd be a good Mojo fan. No, I wasn what a big deal that was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He'd been there a long time. Did Mojo ever contact you? You seemed like you'd be a good Mojo fan. No, I wasn't. I had a long history with the fan. You know, about a year ago, TSN Radio asked me about potentially joining and doing some stuff there. You know, I have a lot, because of the story I told you,

Mike, I have a lot of loyalty to Bob. Right. And we've only fought like three or four times, so I have a lot of loyalty to Bob. Right. And we've only fought like three or four times, so I have a lot of loyalty to Bob, so it would be difficult for me to go and compete against him. Hey, why won't Bob put Mike Wilner on Primetime Sports?

I asked Mike about this. I asked Wilner. I did Primetime once for Bob, and Wilner came on, and I asked him the same thing. He's noticeably absent, considering the people that Bob puts on that show and the amount of Blue Jay chat on that show. If Bob doesn't like you, it's a tough call. You go in a book.

He's got a book? Is that what he has? I don't know if he's got a book. I think it's like a hole in his backyard. You've got to climb out of it. Oh, man. I know. I asked.

I straight up asked Wilner. And he's like, I don't know. He didn't want to answer that one. Not everybody gets along, I guess. But you get along with him. Well, Bob, I mean, like I said, he gave me great advice. And I really enjoy it. The whole thing with Bob is that he's the star.

And you're there to be his foil. And there are times he wants you to let him run roughshod all over you. And there's other times he wants you to challenge him. And I think over the years, I've become pretty good at reading. Can you tell the difference now? Yeah, reading it. And it's fun.

Like when he's in a good mood and he's playful and he's telling you how stupid you are, you just laugh. And he's an easy guy to get along with that way. That's great. Now, I've got to get my timelines right. I should have a whiteboard or something. But when you're at the fan,

did you overlap at the fan with Merrick and Strombo? Yes, I was there at the same time as Merrick and Strombo. Strombo was there already. I think Merrick and Macko came later. Strombo already was a board op, and they had their show game. And the story I always tell about game is, because I used to work a late night friday saturday and

sunday nights doing sports updates it was one of my early breaks at the fan and so friday night i think it was a show game aired friday night late saturday morning yeah and so i would do the sports updates until 2 a.m and then game would take over and so one night I finished my last update. I recorded a couple others for overnight and I'm walking out of the newsroom to go into the lobby to get to the elevators and Macco Jr. is in the lobby in his boxer shorts doing yoga and he's pretty sweaty. And I'm like, what is this?

He's like, so he's in the, now I know more about yoga. He's in the middle of his routine. So he didn't talk. He's doing some Lotus thing or something. They do Lotus things. Whatever he was doing, I did not want to stay there and watch it because of the state of undress he was in.

Oh, yeah. And then later on, I remember on Monday, I come into work and Bob Makowitz, his father, is the program director at the time. He sees me. The first thing he says is, I hear he saw Jeff doing his yoga the other night. So that was pretty strange. But that sounds like, at least hearing them,

they've been on previous episodes. I don't know if you heard the Strombo episode. I've listened to it. Because your name dropped in that thing. It was a long list. It was two hours. So I listened to it in parts. I haven't been able to listen to it all.

But the Merrick one's longer, by the way. The Merrick one's even longer? Yeah, the Merrick's got the record. The Merrick can really talk. You know, I'm really happy for those guys I'll be honest When I was 24

I'm a different guy Most people are at 45 And I'll be 45 next year I'm 44 now At 45 than I was at 25 At that point in time I'm all serious. Like one of the things they used to say to me at the fam was,

you know, you bring the heat every interview. You throw the fastball under the chin every time. Like mix it up. Like be a picture and mix it up. But I wasn't interested at that time. I was like, I have to be serious. I have to be serious. I have to be serious to get ahead.

Now I think you see that there's different ways to look at the world um it's not that i was against their show i wasn't but i probably wasn't as supportive as i could have been um and not because i had anything against any of those guys they're all good guys and i'm happy to see they've all done well it's just that it wasn't my cup of tea so i didn't sure it's not my cup of tea. So I didn't. Sure. It's not like it was, like I said, I didn't do anything bad to it, but I didn't do anything good. Right, right, right. Did I help? Did I offer to go on? Did I help in any way? No, I probably didn't because

it wasn't for me. But so I think with, you know, 20 years hindsight, I'm glad they've all done well. Maybe I could have done more to help them at that time. You think Howard Berger is due for a break here? He's been off the air for a while. Yeah, it's, you know, Mike, the one thing I've learned about a lot in this business, we're a lot like the athletes we cover in the sense that we're not going to be able to easily write our own endings. Like how many athletes retire when they really want to retire? Scott Niedermeyer.

Yeah, Scott Niedermeyer. There's a few if we ever are between. But a lot of guys, what's the thing they miss the most is the camaraderie. Sure, of course. That's actually kind of what I like most about the business. Sure. It's a fun group of guys to be with. And, you know, you see what happens to Howard and you see what happens to a lot of other guys and women.

And you're kind of sitting there saying, you know what, like someday that's going to happen to me. And I think the one thing I really hope for is that we seem to be moving towards an era, and we're probably in a lot of ways already there, where people can create, like look at your podcast that you've created here. You know, 20, 30 years ago, you couldn't do this. No chance. Now you can. And at least Howard is still writing his blogs, still coming up with stuff, like you can still have your own voice.

Burgers Bites. Burgers Bites. Like you can still have your own voice. And that's a big difference now than it was 20 years ago he's a name i actually i invited him on this uh i didn't even i didn't get a reply but i did invite him on because uh i remember howard burger just this like that voice that was always there i'm a big leafs fan i listened to a lot of fan 590 he's always there yeah and then one day he was gone and then it seems like, yeah, he's got the blog and he's got his name out there and everything.

But, you know, I guess there's only so many options for a guy who does that. I guess it's just tough going. Like, I don't know if he's ever talked the least about continually going down there and covering the team and home games and practices. I don't know. Like getting a media pass? Yeah, I don't know if he has or hasn't. But there was a value in what howard did like there would be some days where i would listen to reports and i would just laugh because i thought

they were so crazy but you know he had a passionate passionate backing and he was passionate about the team i think i think that's why howard had such a following is that he was one of the few reporters slash broadcasters who sounded like and thought like the fans did. True, true. And I think people really bought into that. So why does a Howard Berger end up, you know, being dismissed, so to speak? I know, first of all, I know a lot of people in radio and almost everyone has been fired at least once or twice. Like you sort of hired to be fired, it seems. So why is a Howard Berger expendable?

Is it quite simply that they are around so long that they make too much money? Is it that simple? I think that has a lot to do with it. It's, you know, it's money over value. Like I think it's like, like I said, we're a lot like the athletes that we cover in the sense that if you can't justify your salary,

either you're going to get a cut or you're going to be gone it just seems like uh you're punished for experience because of course with experience comes more salary this is sort of like there's a correlation there that's true and i i had barb julio in here uh this is before she got her new gig at 10 10 because she's got a gig now but she was between gigs and she after i don't know how many years of service at uh the fan she was suddenly you know given a pink slip yeah and it really did uh seem like it was because she had many years of experience and wasn't making you know what a 24 year old might make if they were it just seemed like she was making too much because she had been around too long i think there's probably there's a lot of truth to that i mean it doesn't only happen in in media it happens everywhere you're right

how many times do we hear from a company? Well, we can find a younger person to do this for much less money. It happens all over the place. I generally feel that if you are somebody who performs, whether you bring in ad revenue or you have a high Q rating or whatever, there's always going to be a place for you. IQ rating or whatever, there's always going to be a place for you. But I think if you're somebody that for whatever reason, somebody decides, well, can we do this more inexpensively? Then it's dangerous.

And like, you know, I think all of us in this business have to be worried about that. I find it. I think it's unfair. I just turned 40 and, you know, I'm at a point I got three kids. I got a big mortgage. I'm at a point where I can't afford to work for what a 24-year-old could afford. I cannot afford to work for what they will work for. And it sort of puts you at a disadvantage in the sense, yes, with your experience comes a whole whack of stuff you can't teach.

And you're right. If you're worth the money, it's all value in the equation. But I just think it's very tough going for the middle-aged radio veterans sometimes. Well, I think it middle-aged everybody. Unless you're the Aaron Davis or the Bob McCowan or the John Derringer, there seems to be this 1% that sort of can...

Well, if you deliver, you're going to be fine. And those people... Unless you're Dean Blundell, right? Because he delivered and... Dean was a different issue because somebody got in trouble for what he said. Like, there's a line that none of us can ever overcome, right? Like, Don Cherry

is the last of the generation that's going to be able to say whatever they want without punishment. That's right. It's like our grandparents, right? Like, my grandmother, when she turned 80, she just decided, I'm going to say whatever I want because nobody will care because I'm old. Right. Like, when you reach a certain age, you can get away with that. The rest of us can't get away with that.

I say that you're out of fucks to give. Absolutely. It's totally true. It's totally true. And you know what? Also now, like outrage is harder to handle. Like everybody has – the good thing about the world now in social media is that everybody has a voice. The bad thing about the world now in social media is that everybody has a voice. The bad thing about the world now in social media is that everybody has a voice.

Because if someone gets outraged against you, there's times it's perfectly warranted. But there's a lot of times that it isn't. Absolutely. And if you have a boss that cannot handle that, you're in trouble. You're absolutely right. Now, just to bring you back I know we're jumping around here that's cool with you but at the the fan so at some point you actually did play-by-play for the Raptors right I did I did

play-by-play on TV TV I did color for radio and so that so you were like the Eric Smith well Eric's the play-by-play guy now, but the previous year's Eric Smith. Okay, so Paul Jones... Okay, so I'm been watching on TV all year. I haven't actually tuned in the radio yet. This year, Eric is play-by-play, and Paul Jones is the analyst. Okay.

But in previous years, it was the other way around. Okay, okay. I actually, honestly, I have not heard... That's good to know, because I haven't heard the radio this year. When you finally turn it on, you won't be surprised. But there was a year where... The year the Raptors fired Isaiah Thomas, Good to know because I haven't heard the radio this year. When you finally turn it on, you won't be surprised. But there was a year where the year the Raptors fired Isaiah Thomas,

they cleared the organization out of some of his friends. And one of them was actually a guy I really liked named Earl Curitan, who was a former player and he was the color analyst on games. And they fired him. And so I ended up doing 11 games on radio towards the end of the year. Okay, I got you. And then when I was at the score, John Saunders and the Raptors had some scheduling issues. It was the year before they hired Chuck Sworsky. I ended up doing about five games. Okay.

It was awesome. No, I mean, I wondered what that would be like. It was fantastic. And when I was at CBC, I did play-by-play for two Jays games, which was awesome. Yeah, that's wicked. I really liked it. Well, you mentioned like a mentor of sorts

was like Dan Schulman, you mentioned, the fan. Every time someone from the fan comes on, we talk about like how just amazing Dan Schulman is.

Well, he's unlike a lot of people in our business in the sense that he has no enemies. Well, you don't have any enemies. Yeah, sure I do.

Who's your enemy? I'm not going to get into get into it here actually i'll bring it up later but he's like universally loved too like there's very few people who critique dan shulman's work for good reason that guy's phenomenal and i just think it's very hard to find people like that in this business who are almost universally loved who is better than dan shulman at calling a baseball maybe vin scully or whatever maybe because because Vince Scully is the Bob Cole of baseball. Vince Scully is the gold standard, I think, because he's the only guy who can do it by himself and you forget he's doing it by himself. He's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. He's phenomenal. But Dan, I don't think there's anybody better who calls a baseball game today. I agree. And I'm not just saying that because he's a local guy. I think we kill our local guys, guys too and we don't like them.

That's what Strombo says, yeah. So I really have, I think he's excellent. Like I listen to a lot of, I love baseball. I watch it in the summer. There's some really good broadcasters out there, but to me, Dan's the best. I agree. And when Vin Scully's gone from broadcasting, then he'll be the best in the sport. Yeah, I agree 100%. Scully's gone from broadcasting, then he'll be the best in the sport.

Yeah, I agree. I do present. How exactly did you, what happened at the fan that you ended up at the score? Did you leave? I left. It was simply that I got a chance. Like, I've told this story too before about how my first, I interviewed for a job at TSN in 1995 or six. It was right around the turn of the calendar and i was told that i would never be on

television because i wasn't good looking enough terrible hard to believe i know but so at that time there was only tsn and the score then headline sports started up in April of 97. Right. And sports net started later that year. I believe they were October of 97. And I, so the score or headline sports at the time, they offered me a job and I had to take it cause I, you know, I wanted to work in TV.

I wanted to try. So I left the, and that's when you got the work done. Because you seem like a decent looking guy. Yes. The reconstructive surgery. It's like famous WrestleMania moments. How much did they pay for the plastic surgery?

Yeah, that's about what I had done. It was worth the investment. So what was it like at Headline Sports? It was great. At the beginning, they hired 35 people for all different jobs. Like it wasn't just on air. It was sales. It was production.

It was all the entire staff was 35 people. And basically what they did was they threw all of us into a deep ocean and said, who swims and who drowns? And I swam, luckily. But I thought that was a great experience like it was like they basically said look we'll give you some help but you're going to decide if you survive or you fail cool I love that yeah that's cool I love that's a cool opportunity like no wonder you jumped over because that kind of ground floor opportunity that doesn't come around very often to be a part of something like that absolutely and also it was good to um start something from the beginning to learn and also because it was a smaller station at that time and it was just starting out like i don't think i would have gotten a television opportunity obviously at tsn

at that time because they were more polished. At the beginning, the score was really rough around the edges. And so I could be rough around the edges. I think over the years, I learned how to get better. I learned what I was good at. I learned what I wasn't good at. And I just think it really made me a better broadcaster. Did you ever have a PD or somebody advise you to talk faster? Like, have you ever heard this? Because what you have is, and I quite like it, but it's more methodical. Actually, I've been told not to

because the faster I speak, the more I trip up my words. I've been told I have a lazy mouth. And you know what that is, right? Just that, if you tell me what you mean by that. Because radio business... Because I've actually never been in radio, so I have no idea.

Well, Nelson Millman, who was the program director, he told me that. He says, you have what we call in the radio business a lazy mouth, which means your mind works faster than your mouth does. So if you talk too much or talk too fast, you're going to trip over yourself. Okay. And is that like just misspeak or just just uh no i think he says it right like my mind works a lot faster than my mouth so you you will is this so you'll intentionally of slow down your delivery i don't even notice i do it really and you know i don't notice it anymore i remember the beginning uh we're going back now i remember

thinking that a lot of broadcasters, it's rapid fire. I had David Marsden in last episode and he said, 700 words a minute. That's how he says it. And this is just rapid fire. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And you, you're sort of more methodical

in your delivery and it's more elaborate. I think that's part of the reason as I told you earlier. Deliberate, I mean, not elaborate. No, I know what you mean. But I think the other thing too, Mike, is that I kind of look at it like everybody yells and screams fast. Am I going to be another loud yelling maniac? Or am I going to try a different way to make myself stand out?

It's kind of the way I think too. I've always been like a long-term, like in my whole life, I'm like, what's the big picture here? I've always thought that way. So it's kind of the way I speak too. Cool. I always wondered that. So back to the score. So who are some of the fine broadcasters you were working with

at the score in these early, I guess we call it headline sports. We all know what we're talking about. Well, there was, I mean, the ones of us who started at the beginning were Greg Sansoni. Right. Brian Duff, who's now the host of Buffalo Sabres broadcasts. Damien Goddard, who's no longer in the business. Speaking of Twitter stuff. Yeah, Damien Goddard himself and a lot of hot water.

Myself, there was a part-timer named Michael Gossack, who was later hired full-time, who's no longer in the business, and Jory Middlestad, who was the main host of the show and still hosts the gambling show. Yeah, I always hear, you know, take the over, take the under. Take the over, take the under. I think it might be my brother's favorite show. I like them minus the points.

Right. And so we were the five guys who really started out, five or six guys who really started out five or six guys really started later with steve coulias right martin geyer um the lisa bows was there for a while yeah it grew and expanded but we were kind of the guys is there a road back for somebody like goddard uh and i i'm just if people don't know he basically is a religious fellow who uh had a strong feelings i think based on his religion that same-sex marriage was wrong, essentially. Yes, he was, marriages between a man and a woman was, I believe, what he said.

It's tough to come back from that now, especially in Canada. In 2015, especially. You know, maybe in the Middle East that would work over in certain places. But, you know. Yeah, it would work in the South, for example, the States, I think it would work in the South. Even that's starting to change. Like, you know honestly i'd work in the south for example the states i think it would work in the south even that's starting to change like you know it's hard to come back from i think the toughest thing for damien was like i do remember when we were hired uh the guy who was in charge at the time lee herberman used to work at cbc sports and started and was the news director he told us he told me well i don't know if he told everybody

but he told me he says you know who the biggest star is going to be of all of you And I said No who and he goes Damien Goddard And I said and like that Upset me because not because I was a bad against Damien But I wanted to be I wanted to be competitive But he said the camera loves

Damien Goddard And it's true the camera did love Damien Of all of us he did look the best on camera. But it just, it didn't work out for him. And even before that happened, it didn't work out for him at the score. It didn't work out for him at a couple of other places. So I don't know. I guess just some people, even though it looks like destiny, it just doesn't work.

Right, right. And sometimes you got to separate, you say separate church and state. We got to separate church and broadcasting sometimes. Like, you know, with Twitter now, especially like you've got to be smart. Like we all have our political beliefs. We all sometimes think about tweeting when we've had a few pops.

You know, one mistake now and it's never forgotten. And you know, even if you like delete it two minutes later somebody's got a screen cap too late right too late yeah absolutely too late not even doesn't matter that's why i'm always like i have such mad respect for the guys who do their own tweeting and you do your own tweeting obviously yeah and you can tell you can always tell like strombo does his own tweeting and wilner does his own tweeting but some out there, and maybe we've got to kick it up a notch. Maybe you've got to get to, like, movie stars or whatever. But I know Ricky Gervais, who's in town right now, because I've been tweeting at him to come on in as if that's going to happen.

But he does his own tweeting. I used to follow him, but I had to stop because it was too much. Like Patton Oswalt, same deal. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes. And Norm Macdonald I had this stop because it was too much. Like Patton Oswalt, same deal. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes. And Norm Macdonald I had this issue with. So I like Norm Macdonald a lot, but I don't need tweets about every single moment

of the golf tournament that I don't care about. It's just too much. Sometimes you just got to mute those guys. Speaking of that, can a guy like you spend an hour talking to me without checking the phone? Let's say there's a breaking news right now that's why i looked at like do you need to check that for professional reasons periodically i'll

tell you the last two times i ever turned off my phone were when my son was born and the time before that i turned it off in the morning one day and dion phanof was traded to toronto so that was the last time i turned it off aside from the birth of my child that's that's called murphy's law i believe but i think always think about a guy in your position like because there's such a competitive from the birth of my child. That's called Murphy's law, I believe. But I think always think about a guy in your position, like, because there's such a competitive nowadays, like I follow a bunch of people like yourself on Twitter. And if there is something that happens,

let's say the coach gets fired, okay? This is something I just watch them go like bang, bang, you know, McKenzie, everybody just sends their tweet, you know, coach fired and stuff. And I just remember like, how important is it for you to be first or to be at least, you know, in that mix at the beginning? I think that we are all competitive. I think we all like to be first. I think some of us are graded on whether we're first or not by our own companies and bosses.

So it's a competitive business. It's even more competitive now because of what's happened between Rogers and Bell. Rogers getting the rights has only made the competition, I think, even more fierce between the companies. I think for the most part, the guys in the field, we all get along pretty well. I get along with Bob and Darren and Pierre, no problem. But I think we're all competitive. We all want to be the first one. What's the famous Kip Rios tweet? Those fuckers at TSN.

I've asked him about that. He kind of laughs about it now. But was that meant to be a DM? Yeah, for sure. It looked like it. Absolutely it was. I never heard him say so. It could be worse. That's what I thought originally. It could be worse. I think what happens is sometimes

you get competitive and the juices start flowing. The only thing I really don't like about it is, if I get beat into a story and I see I get beat into a story, I'm not even going to bother tweeting about it unless I get a new detail. I got beat, that happens. Some days you win, some days you lose.

I want to win all the time. It doesn't always happen. I think that um i hate when the word i hate the most right now is is confirmed like somebody breaks it another guy goes confirmed i've got it right like now it's official or exactly or somebody reports something and somebody else dumps all over no that's not true not true. And then 10 minutes later, it turns out to be true. I really try to stay away from that. And I think most people do.

That's the stuff. Recently, and I don't have this in my notes, you had a story that took a few days to kind of get confirmed. What was it? And you took some heat, right? I guess they came out and said not true or something. Before it was like, so you announce it's happening and then people are like is this

really happening and then i remember there was a moment where somebody maybe at mlse said it's not true well he said it's not he said it's not true that'll do it and then it was like i don't think it was even his fault like i'm not going to tell say where i got the story from because i never will do that but i think at that moment it it's possible that Tim Laiweke didn't know that he was going to get fired. So when he came out and it happened and everybody jumped all over him, if you look back through my timeline

and what I said, I never jumped all over him. People said, you must have had sources and ownership. I said, no, I didn't. Nobody in ownership gave me this. Because that was pretty cool that you had that and then we all thought you were wrong and then you must have had that moment And then we all thought you were wrong. And then we must have had that moment of validation where it looked... You know what?

I really don't think of it that way. That was a pretty tough 48 hours. I thought that might be a time for you to shut down the phone. No. The thing is, the next day, Tim Laiweke was doing the Ice Bucket Challenge. Right. And I made sure I showed up in case he had anything he wanted to say to me. Another thing I really hate, Mike, is people who are gutless,

and they run at people or say things, and they don't show their face. You want to talk about moments that shaped my career. Dave Perkins, who was – I freelanced at the Toronto Star early in my career. Cool. And Dave Perkins was the sports editor at the time, and he hired me to do it well when the blue jays reacquired tony fernandez in 1993 he ripped it like he's like tony franz a bad guy a selfish guy why would they bring this guy back in here like he carved him and the next day he shows up in the clubhouse and i was there sticks his recorder in fernandez's face and says what

do you got to say for yourself and i remember players saying hearing players saying like i didn't know any of the players right players saying like that that guy's got balls and they respected it and um so i've always believed that i showed up that day you know he didn't come talk to me but i we spoke after the thing was announced it was fine but for 48 i always believed i was right but for 48 hours you must yeah that's got to be an awful feeling it was not easy and the other thing i got told about i got told the night before they announced it that i was possible that i was going to be right here but they were not going to announce it and i was like oh god and but they were not going to announce it. And I was like, oh, God.

But they did. The only reason I was happy they announced it was because it just all went away. But I knew there were people who were taking big runs at me. And I never said anything, but I know who they were. Did you have to do some Twitter blocking? No. Do you have a Twitter blocking policy? Does it have to be like a personal attack for you?

No, I've laughed through personal attacks. I get stuff all the time about you're fat, you must weigh 300 pounds or I've had people write to me and say you're just another example of how a Jew can get any job in the world. Oh yeah, that's awful. Just ignore it. I think I've probably

blocked maybe in 10 people ever because it's repetitive. If somebody's going to keep doing it, I'm going to say okay, I've had enough of you. I've probably blocked maybe in 10 people ever because it's repetitive. If somebody's going to keep doing it, I'm just going to say, okay, I've had enough of you. I've done that. Like once, you can't. It just becomes annoying. You just don't need that. I just don't want to deal with that.

I'm with you. But I have – like last year during the Olympics, I turned my mentions off for a while. And I had people – and Kelly Rudy mentioned on the air and later people I had people really ripping me, like, how can you turn your mind to this? People are like, this is supposed to be social media. You've got to be social. And my response is, if you're a person that I'm not going to want to hang out with in my life, why would I want

to hang out with you on Twitter? And how soon we all became so entitled to have this back and forth here? Hold on. I should have turned off my phone. Oh, I was wondering what that was. I thought we were taking a commercial break. Actually, David Marsden. Oh, I was wondering what that was. I thought we were taking a commercial break. Actually, David Marsden. Oh, that's funny. By the way,

there's a documentary coming out in 2015 called I Am What I Play, and it features four DJs and three are Americans, including Meg Griffin in New York and a Seattle and a Boston guy and David Marsden. Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah, and I just found out about it yesterday

and I just saw the trailer on YouTube. It looks pretty damn good. I'll have to look for it. I like that stuff. I think it's going to debut at Sundance or something. Well, that's really good then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're debuting at Sundance? And I don't know, it's got some real distribution. And I said to David Marsden, I said, like, next

year when they announce the Oscar noms, there's a possibility. I don't know. He hasn't even seen it yet. But there's a possibility you're up for Best Documentary. Who knows? Yeah, that is awesome. Where was I? That's right. So let's go back to the score, though.

How do you end up at CBC? Because CBC is after the score. Yes. I was at the score for six and a half years from April 2007 until October 2000, April 1997 to October 2003. And basically what happened was at the 2003 Stanley Cup final between New Jersey and Anaheim, after the Devils won game seven, Scott Russell basically announced on the air that he was leaving Hockey Night in Canada. Okay.

So there was an opening. 2007, Scott Russell basically announced on the air that he was leaving Hockey Night in Canada. So there was an opening. And in September, I got a call from a guy named Shirely Najak, who's a guy you should get on your podcast. Not a lot of people know who he is. No, I don't know who that is. But he's a longtime producer at Hockey Night in Canada. He was the executive producer for a few years, and now he's a game producer again.'s brilliant guy um he was the number one game producer at hockey night in canada so the leaf games were always produced by him okay cool and the biggest games of the year were always produced by him he's brilliant he called me in september and he said um you know we have an opening at hockey night and i go yeah and he said um

you haven't applied for it and I said well you know Shirely I'm not a guy who really likes to apply like I feel if people are interested they'll come find me I've always liked that way better and he said to me well okay I'm not offering you the job but if that's the way you do things I would like to let you know we're interested in having you apply so what i thought was a very fair approach so i applied i got an interview and i believe at the beginning there were eight finalists who got first interviews and i found out later like i butchered my first interview so there's three cbc producers in there and there's also a human resources person in there and she asked me a question. She says,

do you have a temper? And you just stamped your hand on the table and you yelled. Yes! No, I said, yeah, I do, but I generally direct it towards myself. I tend not to get angry at other people. I tend to get angry at myself.

And I learned later, Shirely told me, that's the wrong answer. That's the wrong answer. If an HR person says, do you have a temper? You say no. That's right. But despite that. You're too honest. Despite that, I got a second interview and I believe it was three people at the time.

And I always will remember this. I did an, I was working for the score on a Saturday. There was an Ontario University football game in Guelph. And I drove from the game in Guelph to my second interview at the CBC offices in Toronto. And I had my second interview with Nancy Lee, who was then the head of sports. And they said,

we'll get back to you soon. We're going to make our decision soon. Cause the season was starting. So on the Monday, two days later was actually the first day of Detroit Red Wings training camp. And I was going for the score to Traverse City, Michigan, because that was the first day that Curtis Joseph was going to be with the Red Wings. So while I was there, I got a call from Joel Darling, who then was the executive producer of Hockey Night.

And he said, we're going to make a decision today, but we're going to call you back. We're going to call you one way or the other. We'll let you know today. And I believe then that they were, I was not the choice, that there was another person they were choosing. And they were negotiating with that person. So I was like, close, but I'm going to finish second. Right, right. Well, he called me back an hour later, and we'd finished our shoot,

and I was in the car with the cameraman who was driving and myself, and he says, Hey, Joel, I was expecting to get the no. And he says, Well, we've made our decision, and we'd like to bring you aboard. And the one thing I always remember was

I almost knocked the car off the road, and I was in the passenger seat. Because A, I was happy and B, I was shocked. I didn't think I would get it. I didn't think this is kind of a dream kid, a dream kid, a dream job for a kind of a kid.

I think growing up, I always hawking in Canada. I really wanted it. Um, I didn't think I was going to get it. I'm not a guy who likes to let my hopes up a lot and I didn't think I was going to get it. So when I got it,

it was pretty awesome. And what year is this again? When you, October, 2003. Okay, cool. And you basically,

you stayed at hockey night in Canada. I mean, sorry, CBC until CBC loses a hockey in Canada. Yes. For 10 years. And while you're at hockey in Canada, yeah.

Yeah. 10 years. Exactly. 11 years. Um, is this when, uh, I got to ask you about the Glenn Healy thing.

Oh, the thing with John Tortorella? Yeah, where he said, I got a quote here. Hold on. I would play the clip, but I'm not that organized. You said, let's not be 14-year-olds. So he was going off on Tortorella, and I think that's your quote. Let's not be 14-year-olds. I think I said 14-year-old girls.

But what happened was... Wait, that quote's worse than mine. Well, it's more like an inside joke. Like, I have four sisters. So whenever something goes wrong, I say to them, let's not be 14-year-old girls about this. The one who was watching at the time, she immediately knew what I was referring to.

She left. But this is where Healy, I guess he shoots you a look, right? Yeah, well, he took a big run at Tortorella during that game. And then I guess one of the Vancouver reporters asked Tortorella about it, and he's like, I don't care what the CBC says. So they started reading it again. I was like, eh.

The whole preamble was, I said, we said what we said, let him say what he says, and let's not be 14-year-old girls about this. But Healy and I, like, he rips me a lot. He gives a lot more than he gets. So it was good to see him get one back. I will say this.

As universally liked as you are, because I'm telling you, I don't think anyone's got anything negative to say about you in my circle. Like, we pick on them. I mean, I know a lot of people who, and we'll talk about this later, but a lot of guys will go at Strombo for his like pants. And I'm hearing like PJ Stock for this or they'll go at anybody.

No one's going at Elliott Friedman. Well, I think there's some truth to that, but there's also like, you know what? Like I get a lot of, you know, you never play the game. What the hell do you do? Oh, yeah, I got to get that. But I was going to say

as universally liked as you are, I would say Glenn Healy is just as polarizing. In TV, Mike, that's the thing. I always say to people, if everybody on TV was like me, it would be so boring. I wouldn't even be able to watch that. But some guys love to play the villain. You need some bad guys.

And Healy loves to play the villain. He's a great guy. Well, he's good at it because i mean my twitter feed lights up whenever healy talks he him and i are i'm convinced that he has a creeper account what i call a creeper account which is one of those accounts where he doesn't tweet or he doesn't have his name on it but he just monitors what people say he says that's not true but i believe it is but he loves playing the villain and I love being a foil with him. Well, in that interaction,

I think the people were on your side there with the 14-year-old. Not a lot of people like Tortorella either. No, that's true. It could have gone either way. Looks like Arthur Fonzarelli, right? A little bit. This guy's got a bigger temper than Arthur Fonzarelli.

Hey, sit on it. So everything's okay now with you and Healy? It always was. It always was. Like, Healy and I are pretty tight. We talk. Well, we haven't been on a lot this year, and we've both together,

and we've both kind of missed that, but we talk quite a bit. Like, we're pretty tight. Good. I'm just glad to hear that. And I got a quick question about Corsi. So, and I only recently, like, you know what it is?

My brother, Ryan, is a huge fantasy sports guy, a quick question about Corsi. And I only recently, you know what it is, my brother Ryan is a huge fantasy sports guy and he lives, and he's at a point, and this causes a lot of fights, where he's sort of like all about the stats and the analytics

and the fantasy qualities and he's sort of lost sight of the actual watching the games. So there'll be some players and to bring it to basketball, he would be really big on somebody like an Andrea Bargnani, okay? Where I would watch the Raptor games.

I wouldn't dive into this world of fantasy sports at all. And I would just see a guy where we're better off when he's on the bench. And I would see this with my eyes, like as a sports fan, then Bargnani. And my brother Ryan would explain, well, actually, he's a top 10 forward. And he would throw all these weird numbers at me.

And it sort of turned me off this world of analytics and sports. It would detract from actually enjoying the game. This is just my opinion. Well, you're not the only person who feels that way. There's a joke, why did you become a sports reporter? Because I was told there would be no math. Right, right, but then with Corsi and stuff,

I do follow people like Myrtle and yourself and stuff, and there's a lot of talks of analytics, and I actually got to a point where I never cared i never cared enough to even google it or drill in to find out what the heck we're talking about when we talked about corsi and things like that you know what the problem is tell me it's that the people on the far sides of like the fanatics on both sides of the argument are infuriating they are they make it i don't think it's the stats that don't make it fun i think it's the people involved sometimes maybe they don they make it i don't think it's the stats that don't make it fun i think it's the people involved sometimes maybe they don't make it fun because one side just rips the other

mercilessly and it's exhausting like i'm not i think there's definitely i'm glad the leafs have hired somebody to look at anything that will improve the performance on the ice because what i care about is this wonderful statistic called wins. We haven't seen many of these lately. I think we went to California and 0-3 here, but I care about wins, and I'm actually okay losing an ugly game, and I'll be pissed off if we sorry, I'm okay winning an ugly game,

and I can be pissed off losing a game in which our analytics or Corsi is amazing or whatever. I just want to see wins and entertainment. And I guess I'm just trying to I just recently found out what Corsi was, and I'm Like, I just want to see wins and entertainment. And I guess I'm just trying to, I just recently found out what Corsi was, and I'm just wondering how this has changed the sport. Because it seems like we talk a great deal

about this new, this Corsi, which I'm going to just, tell me if I'm wrong, but it's like shots on net, whether they're blocked or they miss the net. So it's like not just the old shots on goal, but now it's... It's everything. So if you take a shot from the blue line

and it goes wide, this is going to be a... It's everything. So if you take a shot from the blue line and it goes wide, this is going to be a... It's a Corsi. Okay. And there are limitations to it. Like, for example, we were joking earlier this year, Gustav Nyquist had a brilliant shift against Ottawa

where he held the puck for 28 seconds and then scored the game-winning goal. And we go, he only had one Corsi attempt. Okay, okay, yeah. So we're like, okay, there's a limitation. Because that's the correlation,

I guess, is possession. Because I just definitely, a good team possesses the puck more than a bad team. And there's also things that go on like, there's lots of variables. Well,

goaltending, for example. I mean, we've all seen this where a goaltender steals you a playoff series. Yes. We've seen this.

And so I guess, tell me, enough of me blabbing, Mr. Hockey Analyst, Toronto Mike here, but tell me about your thoughts on the analytics in Corsi. Well, in a lot of ways, Mike, I feel the same way you do. And that is that I think that if I owned a team, I would want to ask my general manager, my VP, whoever it is, are we doing everything in our power to maximize our chances of winning so if you're going to tell me that studying these stats and interpreting them can help us win then i am by

all means in favor of it now what i don't like as i said earlier is the fanaticism of it like it's stupid like the arguments they're like if two people argued the way that some people argue on the internet, like two kids did, they'd be sent to the corners of the recess. And you see MSM people, like Steve Simmons in Myrtle, for example. You've seen this one?

I just get my popcorn and I watch. I'm like, how old are you guys? And so it's kind of funny. But people get really defensive. Sure, because last year the Leafs, before the Olympic break, and actually I want to talk to you about the Olympics next, but before the Olympic break, Leafs were good in terms of wins.

And post-Olympic break, we were brutal. And I remember this whole, I guess our Corsi wasn't good, because we're not a good team. It hasn't been good for you. Right, because we're not a good team. It hasn't been good for you. Right, because we're not a good team. And so we had sort of an inflated win percentage at the break. And there would be people like Steve Simmons would tweet like, oh, I guess look at the Leafs in whatever playoff spot.

I guess that Corsi doesn't mean much. And then a couple months later when we did our nose dive, someone will be like, hey, where are you now, Simmons? Now we're finishing where the course he said we should finish. I know. It's ridiculous. For example, look at the California road trip. So they fire Carlisle.

They lose at home to Washington. They beat Columbus. They lose to L.A. 2-0, yeah. They lose to Anaheim. 4-0. They lose to San Jose 2-0, yeah. They lose to Anaheim. 4-0. They lose to San Jose. 3-1.

And what are we talking about at the beginning in the first couple of games? Oh, where they're not allowing a lot of shots. Yes, this is what I'm hearing. We're playing defensive hockey. We're playing defensive hockey. They go into LA, they lose to nothing. But oh, look at this. People start, oh, we haven't had a situation where Toronto's only allowed 20 shots in back-to-back games in seven years.

It was like a win. This is wonderful. And then two games later, they can't score or blow it up. So the other problem in this city, and I believe it's the biggest problem, is that people have the patience of a housefly. That's true. Yeah, absolutely.

If you're going to be in charge of this team and you're going to be successful, A, you can't worry about what other people think. And B, when the tide turns, as it turns quick, because for a couple days, they were like, oh, this is great. We're only allowing 20 seconds. Oh, we're losing and we can't score. Shut up. The Ducks game, I don't, you might know

this. You work for Rodgers. You might know this, but the feed fell apart, the Rodgers feed early in the Ducks game, okay? So they had to do, I guess they have a magic button they can press to pick up the Ducks feed. Yes. So they did this. So I'm watching now, and now we have the Ducks feed, Yes. So they did this. So I'm watching now and now we have the Ducks feed. Okay. So I'm hearing these commenters I'm not familiar with, but the Ducks.

And they, and it's only a brief, maybe two minutes total, but the Ducks commenters actually talked about our two to nothing loss in LA. And the guy said, they're talking like they won that game. And he made some point about how we lost two nothing in la but we're talking like we won that game i got the feeling after the two nothing la game that we were like it was like we had won six nothing it was you kidding me you know i agree all right you agree it's all about the process right and i think in a lot of ways that's correct it has to be about are we playing properly are we not playing properly but i think there were a lot of people who are so pro-analytics, they had a lot invested in Peter Horacek succeeding for Randy Carlisle.

Because who was the ultimate whipping boy from the analytics point of view? It was Randy Carlisle. Absolutely, right. He sucks. He's old school. Whatever. So now – Can't work a toaster.

He can't work a toaster. So now he leaves and they're one in four. Oh, well, you know, well, it's hard to sell. Like,

look at Edmonton, like all the analytics, they hired Tyler Dello, I think is a really smart guy. And then the team goes in the crapper. Right. And it's like, oh,

well, this is the, and now everybody's all over all the analytics really helped Edmonton. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so now they become overprotective. It's really insane.

Just generally speaking on the Leafs, what bugs me is I think the worst place for a team is between playoffs and lottery. There's this dead zone. Eight to 12. And that's our sweet spot. We quarter the market between lottery and playoffs. You know what? They're not far out from being 25th. Oh, yeah.

Okay. Good. So let's keep... This is a great move, and I'm happy. Well, I just... I don't think Shanahan believes this is a good team.

No. I don't think... But he needs to see what he has so next summer we can do interesting things. You gotta see. You know, and I'm a big believer in that.

You don't, like... There's a lot of, like... I did an interview with Ned Colletti, who's the former GM of the LA Dodgers. And he said to me, like, you know, you're a hockey insider, right? I said, that's what they say. I hate that term. He goes, how much do you think you really know about hockey, about what percentage really goes on?

I said, 10%. He said, you're probably right. And so I've said that, I've told that story before. People are like, you think you only know about 10% of what's going on in the NHL? And I go, yeah, that's it. Because I'm at 8%, so you're only a couple points up on me. You're right there. So I think there's a lot of things that happen that we don't know

or understand the true reason of that will never get out. And that's why I think you have to be inside a team for a year really to understand what you've got there. Man, we better not go down this leaf's rabbit hole. It'll take another hour. So the Olympics, you were involved in the CBC's Olympic Games coverage. So how was that? It was excellent.

Is that a trade going down right now? No, that's my dad. Okay. It was excellent. There were a lot of great moments. The first one I did was Athens, and they were testing me because I was new, so they gave me something called Various. And see, I was responsible for four sports going into the Olympics.

Table tennis, tennis, weightlifting. What was my other one back in the first one? I'm trying to remember. Badminton. Badminton, okay. So I was responsible for all our coverage of that stuff. And they had me call, like one day they said, Elliot, tomorrow morning, we've got nothing going on.

The women's badminton's final is you're going to call it by yourself. It was just an awesome challenge. Sure, sure. Like it was awesome to be able to um get the opportunity to do that i really loved it um then in 2006 i did hockey in italy in 2008 more your speed there yeah it was normal but you know it was hockey at the olympics is the is the best for canada but two and by the way 2004, I ended up doing nine different sports, which was awesome. That's cool.

2008, I was supposed to do indoor and beach volleyball. I was like, I'm good with this. That's my favorite spectator. Then the week before the Olympics, one of our commentators got a kidney stone and could not broadcast. and could not um could not broadcast so they switched us all at the last minute and i got to do the pool and the track and that was michael phelps and usain bolt nice that was the highlight that's the best seeing those two things were the highlights of my life that's amazing and then so that was 2008 and then the next olympics we did were 2014 because they went to Bell. Right.

And I did hockey there and seeing Canada win the gold at the Olympics was pretty cool. Yeah, that was amazing. Cool. I'm kind of running out of time here, but I got to talk about Rogers Hockey Night in Canada. Okay. So you were a late announcement, I believe, in terms of the new Rogers team. Well, they didn't, like I wasn't going to be a host, so I wasn't going to be one of the first announcements. Like, the day they announced the host, they called me and they said, look, like, you're not going to be one of our hosts, but we still want you to be part of the team.

I said, okay. And we did some negotiating. And then, you know what? I didn't like it during the season. Like, when an athlete says I don't like to talk during the season, I understand that now. So I waited until almost after the season during the stanley cup semi-final they called me and said we've got to know if you're coming by june 1st so we got the deal done on june 1st okay and and they just announced it after and i said they said you mind if we wait till after the stanley cup final to

announce it and i said you know do it your own pace so that's when we did it so there was never a moment where maybe you weren't going to be part of this. There was, I did talk, you know, I looked and I saw what was else was out there. And you talked to those fuckers at TSN. No, they, they, they did not make an offer. They, uh, it wasn't, you know, I think they, they had decided that they were going to keep their guys together. I mean, they don't have a lot. They didn't really have room for anybody else,

but I looked at some other things and, uh, at the end of the day, it was the right offer for a lot of reasons was to go there. Now, uh, you, Merrick and Strombo have something in common in that none of you played in

the NHL. Yes, none of us did. And I was never going to. No, you weren't close. No, I,

I stopped playing at Peewee. My parents, uh, didn't support it and, I wasn't good enough to force it. Uh, yeah, my son's in Pee Wee. My parents didn't support it, and I wasn't good enough to force it. Yeah, my son's in Pee Wee right now. My older son. Oh, really? Not the one.

Not the baby? Not the guy you met. I was going to say, yeah. Good luck to him, Mike. So tell me, though, do you ever get any resentment from the NHL veterans on the broadcast team? Not really. What do you know? You weren't there?

I get that more from fans, like the occasional fan than I do from people in the game. I think, look, like, you know, I can never, like I'll tell you, this is the one story I always say, Mike, because the first practice I worked at Hockey Night in Canada, I worked at, I want to say it was with Greg Millen and Glenn Healy, and I couldn't believe how much about watching a practice I didn't know like they those guys taught me and Kelly was good

at it and Greg Simpson was good at it Healy especially Millsy was really good at it they told me this is how you watch a practice they said you don't watch practice right I said okay like what do I do and they taught me a whole new way to watch it. And I, it changed like the one, like I always thought like, I'd like to be a GM someday. Those guys see the game at a higher level than I ever can. So I understood very quickly that I had a weakness. So I think that I really try to prepare. I really try to learn as much as I could. I read a lot of coaching manuals. I watch a weakness. So I think that I really try to prepare.

I really try to learn as much as I could. I read a lot of coaching manuals. I watch a lot of games. I think most people in the sport now recognize that I work to prepare to overcome the shortcomings I have. Yeah, I'm going to get to that because absolutely. If they have an issue with me, it's over something I've ever said. No, you do your homework.

If I ever said or if they may's over something I've ever said. No, you do your homework. If I ever said, they may not like something I've said or reported. Actually, on that note, okay, so one of my favorite articles or entries or posts is the 30 thoughts. And every time I read 30 thoughts, I always have the same feeling, which is like, damn, this is good.

I wish I could do this. Because I've been writing at torontomic.com for, I don't know, 12 years now. And that 30 thoughts is like one of the best things I'll read in a week. Thanks. It's fantastic. Thank you. And I mean, first of all, how long does it take you? A long time.

Like when I sit down to write it, it takes about 12 hours. Well, I'm envious of how awesome it is. That's the greatest compliment I could pay you. I wish I wrote that. But early criticisms of the Rogers hockey bra. I know you're getting it and I get it too. I just wonder if you think it's fair. Because this is a 12-year deal and we are now, I don't know what it is, three or four months into this thing.

I don't have a problem with it. I really don't. We have to understand that we're months into this thing. I don't have a problem with it. I really don't. Like, we have to understand that we're going to be criticized. That's just the way life is. You can say, oh, we're new. People don't care that we're new. They expect hockey to be broadcast a certain way. People don't like change.

That was my next, no, but you were totally right. That's my next sentence. People don't like change. Like, I remember when Ron McLean replaced Dave Hodge. Do you remember how many people brutalized Ron? And he became one of the best broadcasters ever. That's true because I think Stromble's experiencing that right now. And I think that's one of the big lightning rods.

And I asked him straight out about it. And he thinks it's got a lot to do with the fact that he's very Queen Street Toronto, and that the rest of Canada might be prejudging him based on this persona of Queen Street Toronto. That might be true. Because he wears this, I don't notice these things, but people tell me he wears this. His pants are tight, and he's a cool guy this is Mr. Edge 102 Mr. Punk-O-Rama and much music

there's definitely a lot of truth to that not all of Canada is like that so that's true why is Don so popular? because he resonates with Canadians and the one thing George said was that,

and I want to get the quote right, but he basically said that people find, his words, ethnic. And I actually, this is his words, and I actually said to him, like, really? Like, only because in 2015, I'm not sure we're thinking,

it would be like someone with a Tortorella. Do we think Tortorella is ethnic? I don't agree with George on that one. I have said this to George, and I will say it here because I've said it to him. I think George has to stop worrying about what people think about him. I really do. You know, it's funny. My wife used to work in entertainment TV, and she had a good theory on this, which I really agree with.

In entertainment, no tough questions get asked. Everybody's like, you're great. No, you're great. Like when she interviewed stars, if she ever asked anything remotely resembling a tough question, you never talk to that person.

Yeah, you'd be blacklisted from everyone that PR represents. So it's very, like people say sports is like all incestual. Entertainment is 75 times more incestual than sports. Nobody says anything bad about anybody or it's really rare. In sports,

everybody thinks they're an expert. Like I, one of the reasons I think I've been lucky enough to get the career I have is, can I tell people things that they don't know? And I'm able to do that with news and why, and you have to be one of two things.

You have to be entertaining or you have to be newsy. I'm not that entertaining. I'm more newsy. And I think other than that in sports, they think they know more than you and they'll tear tear you apart if they think they know more than you. And even if they don't like you, for even a stupid reason, they'll tear you apart. George is not used to that because he comes from entertainment. Sure.

So I tell George, get off the freaking Twitter. Who cares what people say about you? You're in this position. Just work on being great at it. And he will be. And for what it's worth, I personally think he is great at what he's, he knows he's not a hockey analyst.

He knows what his job is kind of there. It's kind of like, he's like a host guy. You kind of keep the parts moving. And I think he's very good at it. And when he does the interviews and we haven't seen a lot, well, maybe I've missed them, but it. And when he does the interviews, and we haven't seen a lot. Well, maybe I've missed them. But it seems like when he does sit down with, he did that one with Sidney Crosby and Henrik Lundqvist.

And... John Lenteus. Right. Like, that's where George... And to me, he excels doing kind of like what we're doing now. Yeah. He's very good at it. And if you need someone else who could do this, let me know.

I'll do those interviews, too. No problem, Michael. Let them know you're interested. But I think George just has to forget about the noise. Just ignore it. So you don't think the rest of Canada hates Toronto and hates...

Because he's Mr. Toronto. Although he's a Habs fan. But I'm Mr. Toronto too. I'm 44 years old. What pants are you wearing? Do you mind if I check it out? I've lived 40 years in Toronto and the other four in London. But I don't think that, you know, honestly,

like, in sports, and especially in hockey, like, I could say 75 great things about the Montreal Canadiens, but the moment I say one, those fans are going to kill me. Right. Like, that's the way it is.

You just have to deal with that. Right. It's the nature of the beast i agree completely dude this was amazing thanks for having me mike i appreciate it and i should just let everybody know since you're the third hockey night in canada guy to come on that i should let everyone know if they want to hear the strombo episode it is episode 103, because this is 107. I should have got Andy Frost for 107. You could have been 108.

Yeah, what were you thinking? I don't know. It's all hindsight. Okay, and Merrick is episode 74, if you want to hear the Jeff Merrick episode. But, man, I enjoyed this one. Thanks very much for having me. I enjoyed it, too. It was fun to reminisce.

Quick final question before you take the headphones. If I'm a 20-year-old and I'm interested in my dream job as being a hockey dad in Canada, what would you tell that 20-year-old today? Volunteer.

Get your foot in the door any which way. That's what I did because if you're smart and you're useful and you keep your mouth shut, you'll go places. Good advice.

And that brings us to the end of our 107th show. You can follow me on Twitter at Toronto Mike and Elliot is at Freed HNIC. I'm going to just spell that. It's at F-R-I-E-D-G-E-H-N-I-C. Can I start calling you the Freed? Yeah, that's my nickname.

Done. Thank you. See you all next week. I'm where you've been Because everything is kind of rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold But the snow won't stay today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine

And it won't go away