Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Emm Gryner: Toronto Mike'd #154

Episode Date: January 9, 2016

Mike chats with singer-songwriter Emm Gryner about her work with David Bowie, Chris Hadfield and Trent Severn, her role in One Week, and her song Visiting Hours about my dear friend Mike Kic.

Welcome to episode 154 of Toronto Mike, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by the Great Lakes Brewery, a local independent brewery producing fresh craft beer. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me this week is singer-songwriter Em Griner. Thank you Em for dropping by. You're welcome. Because you're a super busy lady, right? You're fitting me in between like sound checks or something.

Is that what you're doing? Well, a few things, but I'm happy to be here. It's great to see your setup here. Thank you. Is this better than you expected by any chance? I'm hoping.

Well, I didn't expect anything. Is that wrong? Should I have expected? You thought I'd like just have like maybe a laptop and i press record or this is actually more set up than i thought it would be so could you record an album with this setup uh sure but not a good one right hey and um you know i don't normally see race but i saw in your bio, you mentioned like you're, you're, uh, half Filipino and half like of Irish descent. Yes. I have a child who is that identical mix because I am of Irish descent and you met Monica a minute ago. She is Filipino and Jarvis, the little one, tiny one

is like the same makeup as yourself. Yes, it's a winning makeup. Well, no, the thing is, seriously, I have a daughter due in March, the same makeup. And I was thinking like, I might get a glimpse of what she might look like when M. Griner is there. Well, she'll be feisty, but helpful. That's actually, that's pretty good.

I'll take that. I want to start, first I should tell everybody a couple of things. First, get this out of the way. I want you to know that I have beer for you. Oh, I was looking at that. I wondered if it was strategically placed. You're going to take that home with you.

I hope you drink beer. Do you drink beer? My husband does. He'll be happy. So you're bringing your husband home a six pack of Great Lakes beer. Thank you. Thank you so much. Don't thank me.

I feel like I just won a prize on a game show. Well, maybe I might even give you this bottle. I have more. Oh, no. Stu took more when Stu Jeffries was on like a couple days ago. And he took more than his allotted six pack. He's always taking more than he should. Good rocking tonight. He's earned taking more than he should. Good rocking tonight.

He's earned it actually, hasn't he? You're a bit young, but you met, I bet your dream was as a child was to be on Good Rocking tonight. Well, my dream was actually to be on Video Hits. Samantha Taylor. Yeah. You know, she spoke my language.

No, I've never met her. Have you met her? No, but I'd like to have her here because I too, we are of a similar vintage and I am a video hits, and I like Toronto Rocks quite a bit with the late John Bajor.

Right, yeah. Those are my big three. The pre-much music years, if you will. So the other thing I want to point out is that we've been trying to work this timing out for a while but this episode has always had a struck a personal chord with me and we'll get to this later in the episode but i'm fascinated in your uh great career as a singer songwriter but there's a whole personal

angle we'll get to later uh and i this is partly why as i knew you were coming over it was different than the other 153 episodes in that like you know yeah Stu Jeffries is coming over you know I'm kind of excited to talk him up about his stuff and M Griner's coming over and I'm excited to talk her up about herself but there's this part of the discussion I want to have which is very personal to me and I just hope I can get through it uh and maintain my comp. So that'll be my challenge for episode 154. Okay. Okay. Thank you. When did it all begin? I guess, how did you get your first break in the, you know, as a singer songwriter in Canada? How did it all begin? Well, it started with a songwriting contest. It was put on by what was the mix 99.9. Now it's Virgin. But they had a songwriting contest. If you had a song, you could put it in and mine got chosen as the as the Toronto area song and then it went on to the national thing and then I won that.

I won that. So I won like five grand from that prize. And this is like in the mid nineties. So I put that into making an album. So I made an album and that album got me a record deal. That's cool. Mix 99. That was Rob Christie and all that stuff going on, if I remember correctly. But actually my buddy was the first guy to say the call signal, whatever, Mix 99.9 on the air when they switched over in like 19, I don't know, 1990 or something like that. Oh, wow. So it's a small world there. And what was your first, so you start from there. What's your first hit?

Like, what was the first song you recorded that you can, you know, point to and say, hey, I got to hear that on the radio or on much music or whatnot? got to hear that on the radio or on much music or whatnot? Um, when I made my album, um, I got to go to London, England to make it, which was a real dream for me because I was really into like Brit pop, you know, all that stuff, stone roses and, uh, the verve and everything. So to make an album that was really exciting for me. And I recorded a song called Summer Long. And it was sort of inspired by, I think... Oh, wow, look at you. You're fast. Practically professional. Seamless. I was hoping you'd say Summer Long.

Yeah, so Summer Long got some airplay. There it is. Here, I'll put it up a bit, but I was going to create a little ambiance while you talk about it. So you'd see this on Much Music? Yeah, I saw it on Much, and then also when it got played on The Edge,

that was a big thing. And I mean, the thing about when it happened, I was 21, and I was sort of like, oh, yeah, that's my song on the radio. I kind of thought that it was going to happen over and over and over again in my career, that I'd have songs on the radio. So I sort of was like, oh, yeah, no big deal. But if it happened now, I'd just be like rolling down the windows. I'd be like, this is me.

Hear that song? That's me. But I was pretty cool when I was 21. Too cool for school. No, that's the army jogger effect. You know, your first two years in the NHL, you get a Stanley Cup and you just assume you'll be back.

And then here you are, like whatever he is, 44 years old or whatever. And he's like trying to get another sip. Yeah, it's a shame. It's a good track. The whole episode is just me listening to your tunes. Is that okay? That's all to get another sip. Yeah, it's a shame. It's a good track. The whole episode is just going to be me listening to your tunes. Is that okay?

That's all right. All right. So that's Summer Long. And I have a nice, my research staff tells me that you got nominated at the Juno Awards. Did this song get nominated for a Juno? I was nominated for the slightly peculiar category of Best New Artist, which is sort of like, i'm new so i would i'm i guess i'm great because i'm new but um i don't i didn't win that i don't even

remember who won that one oh did they give it to alanis morissette is that what they did somebody somebody more deserving someone more new no i think what they do is because she had that first album right as a pop star oh and uh then when she recorded Jagged Little Pill, she was back in the running for all the best new artist awards, as if the first round didn't happen. Like, you just need to rebrand yourself, Em. Right. It's not too late. You get a second start.

Why not? And write angry songs. Right. Okay. I'll work on that. Think of ex-boyfriends and just get angry. Okay. I'll drink all this beer and get crazy. that's right we drink the beer and um it's funny because i'm a big david bowie fan oh wow and you have like an awesome kick-ass connection to david bowie do you like the new album i should ask i don't have the new album yet oh i was like i was ever honest i'm sure I would like it

when I finally get a chance to listen to it. Yeah, I was playing a show in New York City and I met another person who was in David Bowie's touring band

and this was in 1999 and they were looking for someone else to be in the band to sing and they recommended me so there I was and I joined the band and that my first gig was Saturday Night Live. Really? That would if I ever if I were you

and I'm at any dinner party or like social event that would be my first anecdote you know. Right okay yeah. You might be the only person you can make that claim what that i am the only canadian that played with david bowie on saturday night live well that's for sure okay that's for sure so what is it like tell me uh did you have any uh interest like david bowie did you get to know the guy or absolutely i mean he he was he's always been a real obviously a music and art person above like a celebrity you know what I mean so when you're dealing with someone like that it's just a whole education of you know rock history so a lot of rehearsals actually he'd launch into stories and I would just listen and

he also had a really interesting perspective on just making music, recording music, and was always really interested in what was new. So we talked a lot about indie bands. We went to go see some bands together and we even went to like an art show together. And so really gracious, a little bit of a wisecracker. Yeah, that's good jokes. Well, that's good. I'm just picturing like going to a, I'm going to go see this band in concert with David Bowie.

It takes some preparation. That's kind of surreal, right? Yeah, I mean, if there are any celebrities listening, I know which direction you should be sitting when you sit down in a restaurant. Which way? And it's back to the door. Oh, that's a... No, I mean, it takes, you know, you got to call ahead, Which way? And it's back to the door.

That's a... No, I mean, it takes, you know, you got to call ahead, you know, you got to say David Bowie's coming, you got to have a seat reserved, you got to have an escort. I mean, I didn't know these things. I just thought you just rock and roll. Did you learn to have an escort? Because I noticed when you arrived, it was like the Secret Service. Just kidding, everybody. I was accompanied by my purse. Is it like in Goodfellas,

you know, when they don't have a... You know, he comes in through the kitchen. Have you seen Goodfellas? I don't remember. Don't recall. Yeah, I should. I probably say it too many times. But he comes in through the kitchen

and then they actually create a spot in front of the stage for him. You don't need a reservation when you're David Bowie. Yeah, probably. You just create a new spot. That's awesome. Now him you know i expect you don't need a reservation when you're david bowie yeah probably like you just create a new spot that's awesome now you know speaking of david bowie so david bowie one of his big uh one of his classic songs was space oddity and chris hadfield little uh which is pretty awesome chris hadfield you know did the famous cover of bowie's uh Space Oddity back in 2013. And you had, like, you collaborated with Hadfield on this?

That's awesome, too. Yeah, it was pretty great. I had just had my second child, so I had, like, a six-month-old with me. And he was phoning me from the space station, and he said he wanted to collaborate on something. So when someone phones you from space, you much you know start paying attention okay i just saw making a murderer on netflix okay so when you get a call from space do you get that recording that says you have a collect call from outer space actually uh similar he he would always call and he'd say and it's chris hadfield calling from the international space station and um it's Chris Hadfield calling from the International Space Station. And it's funny, he'd always say that, even though I've known him for 15 years because we're both from Sarnia.

That's the connection. But he'd always call and say, M, it's Chris. It's Chris Hadfield calling from the International Space Station. But no delay on the phone call, actually. You'd think there'd be a little bit of a delay. Yeah, we've come a long way. Houston. Houston, we do not have a problem. But that's how the calls would be routed through houston so oh that's cool like you know your your uh hadfield story is better than mine where i went to taste of

i biked a taste of toronto last summer and he was there and i got a photo with him that's my chris hadfield story yours is better but i'm sure you got to talk to him and he's a nice guy but it's such a nice guy he agreed to come on my podcast but he's got a multi-layer pr components like you know how i had to go through you know multi-pr layers to get m grinder you know it's another joke she's lovely but chris hadfield for real like he's excited about coming on and i had to go through this like i don't know what it was i was i had to go through this pr channel to get him and it's it's been held up there for forever i've lost hope don't don't give up i'll put in a good word that's what i'm hoping if he knows there's beer here he'll be here in a heartbeat and i happen

to know uh the great lakes if i tell great lakes brewery like uh chris hadfield wants you know he doesn't want a six-pack he wants he wants wants more. They would come and deliver it in a heartbeat for sure. They would love it. So he's a, and I only met him for like, I think we talked for like five minutes or something, but he, no pun intended, he's a down to earth guy. See what I did there. I did.

I like that. He really is. Honestly, he sort of doesn't get tired of answering all those questions about space. And, you know know there's even times where um i my son is five he's really into space like a lot of five-year-olds and like chris made some time to facetime with him and answer like seriously answer questions about um you know space things it's the first question like can anyone hear you scream? Cause that's mine.

Well, he would answer that question for you totally, uh, you know, straight up. I'll give you the science behind it and, and not laugh, you know? Yeah. Uh, he won't write wise crack me like that Bowie guy. You'd have some trouble with him. Yeah. And he's got a great mustache. He does. Yeah. He's got one of the great mustaches of our time I'd say but honestly he you know that was a great uh collaboration I just came up with the piano part for Space Oddity he really wanted to do Space Oddity and um I honestly think it was a bit of a coincidence that I had sung with Bowie um and And because we weren't actually sure that his version, Chris's version was going to be released.

For a long time, it was like, you got to keep this under wraps. It's just a private project. We don't know. Oh, licensing and stuff. Yeah. When you do something in space, you need like a lot of permission. You need all the countries. Yeah.

So, yeah, you know, he recorded it on an iPad up there, just on GarageBand and sent it down. I did the piano and then I got a friend of mine, Joe Corcoran, who's a Toronto guy living in LA, and he produced it up to sound pretty great. It was like a huge, I mean, it sounded great, but it was a huge viral hit on YouTube. Yeah.

And I remember the licensing thing came up because I think he had to pull it after a year or something. Yeah. But then I think they worked it out. Maybe you pulled some of your David Bowie's connection strings there. No, it wasn't me. Take the credit for it anyway. No one will know. Okay, sure.

Yeah. But Bowie's not really like, he kind of gave his blessing but uh he's not the he doesn't own the publishing on that song so hey as a musician since this just came up um I get confused sometimes I dive into the rabbit hole of like publishing like there's a music and then there's publishing and sometimes they're owned by different people and so sometimes like if you want to I don't know license I'll make it like you want to license a beatles song but you're gonna have like other people sing it you you think there's you don't you do i i maybe maybe i should let the professional explain like uh if somebody wanted summer long to sell their uh i don't know their old navy wants to sell dresses with summer long what do they have to do like tell me well first they got to

make some better dresses and then... Ouch! Just kidding. Ouch! Well, it's about licensing. So various people own like the license of the recording of that song. But in this case, Chris was covering Space Oddity. So technically, he just needed to like register the song with the CMRA, which is the Canadian Musical Reproduction Rights Agency. to register the song with the CMRA, which is the Canadian Musical Reproduction Rights Agency. Anytime you do a cover of something, you just have to pay the money to register.

It's not very much. So a lot of people think, oh, I got to get a lot of permission to do things, but it's really not true. If you're using someone's recording, you might. You would know better than anybody. We're going to get to this in a minute, but one of my go-to discs still is girl versions which we'll get to in a minute but where you cover like great like you know alt rock hits and stuff like uh and all you

so you had to go through that process to basically do that yeah it's costly to make a covers record because you're paying for you know 10 or 12, you know, the people who wrote those songs get that money. And if I wrote a song and someone covered it, I'd get the money. So it's sort of like it all comes around. But thanks. I really do like that album as well. I took, you know, Crazy Train and some Def Leppard songs and even Stone Temple Pilots.

Oh, look at you. You had to say the S word, Stone Temple Pilots. Oh, look at you. You had to say the S word, Stone Temple Pilots, because we just lost a lead singer of Stone Temple Pilots. Yeah, sure did. But this is a band, I mean, I really dug this band, because I like, in the 90s, I was big on like, I like my Pearl Jam, my Nirvana and everything. But I, you know, I like Smashing Pumpkins

and I like Stone Temple Pilots. And I would see them in concert when they came around. But here, let me hear a bit. So that's Big Bang Baby so which I thought I thought this album was cool my buddy we'll talk about him

in a minute but my buddy Mike Kick told me about girl versions and I loved it like I loved it right away

it's great yeah it's funny you bring that album up versions and I loved it. Like I loved it right away. It's great. Yeah. It's funny you bring that album up because, um, it, until this album, I hadn't recorded another album quite that way. I recorded that one. It was produced by Chris Wardman who played with Blue Peter. Do you know that band? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. Of course. And he really encouraged me to play and sing at the same time. And I think it made the performances so much better. And no other producer has really been okay with me doing that until this new record, which, you know, we'll talk about later. Which we'll get to for sure. But this was cool. And the other track, I mean, there were a lot of tracks. You mentioned Crazy Train and all that, but... And you mentioned earlier that you were, like, into, you know, Britpop or whatever. Yeah.

Here, let this load in here. Reminds me a little bit, like, Tori Amos put out Smells Like Teen Spirit because 102 would play it all the time in, like, I don't know, 92 or something. Sorry I got lost. This is great. I love this album. Thank you. Haven't heard that for a while.

Yeah, I think that's the cover of Song 2 by Blur. And I do believe that Damon Albarn from Blur heard that and I think he said it was weird. But he's kind of a weird guy. He also tours as a cartoon character. So he's a little weird. Although those are kick-ass cartoon characters.

Yeah, they're good. You can't be down on them. They're way better than our version. We had Prozac. Do you remember Prozac? I do, yeah. Gorillas are way cooler than Prozac. Well, at least someone tried. That's right. Okay, so Chris Hadfield, cool guy, cool mustache,

and no, just complete coincidence that you're helping him on his famous cover of Space Oddity, even though you had sang and played keyboards in David Bowie's band. That is a remarkable coincidence. So when he finds out about this coincidence, he's pretty excited by that. Yeah. Let's assume he was. Uh, who? David? Yeah.

Well, uh, well, okay. David, but Chris Hadfield. Oh yeah. Well, I honestly, yeah. I mean, it was handy. I'll say that. And if, if, if it wasn't a coincidence and that's fine with me too. But the cool thing about it is that David Bowie said that he thought that it was the most poignant version of that song ever. Oh, cool. Yeah, so he publicly said that on his Facebook and later he told me it was all good. So it was nice to have that blessing, you know. For sure.

I'm going to tell you a really quick story, but it segues nicely into something you did that i really admired okay so there was a canadian movie called saint ralph and didn't make a lot of noise as a lot of these charming canadian movies that got under the radar or whatever but you kind of hear through the grapevine hey mike you might like this and they said you might like this because uh there's an actual song on there uh by gourd downey because i would i'm still am a crazy tragically hip fan so i watched this movie saint ralph which is like like i said all charming as all hell like i love this movie

and there's this uh climatic scene set to a cover of hallelujah as performed by gourd downey i need this i need this song. Okay, so this is, I don't know when, we're going back now. I'm going to, at least 10 years ago. I don't know, at least 10 years ago. I'm searching for this song. It's not like I'm trying to steal this song.

I'm happy to pay real dollars for this song. I cannot find Gord Downie's cover. So you think, okay, maybe it's on the St. Ralph soundtrack. This does not exist, okay? I'm writing about this on toront mic.com like my my pursuit and then the guy who put together that album whose name is andrew lockington sends me a cd which is the soundtrack that was never released sends me the cd i have the saint ral soundtrack. No one else has this. Wow. And it's got the cover of Halle, of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah by Gord Downie of the Tragically Hip,

which like the scene, uh, it moved me to tears at the time. Maybe that's, you know, maybe no big plate or whatever, but I, uh, loved, I loved this movie and this song. And then through this relationship, I had this email relationship with Andrewrew lockington it turns out the guy who made saint ralph puts out another movie and i i have here february 2009 i'm invited to the what do they call it the canadian premiere of one week and this has uh the guy from dawson's creek in it joshua jackson is also, you might know he's in the very excellent The Affair. You ever seen this show? No. It's a good show.

I know. I'm behind on my TV. You look like a person who doesn't even own a TV. Am I right? Oh, I own one. You own one. You'd like The Affair. It's good stuff.

You ever seen The Wire? Yes, I have seen The Wire. McNulty in The Wire stars in The Affair. Okay. But you already know that. Have you ever seen Luther? No. The guy from Luther is from The Wire.

It is Stringer Bell, Idris Elba, but Stringer Bell from The Wire. And the girl in Luther, since you've never seen Luther, you don't know, but the gal in Luther is the other star of The Affair. So it all comes full circle. So this is a very exciting, everybody tuned in to hear M. Griner and they're going to hear my boring story about St. Ralph.

But One Week has great cameos in it, like Gore Downey's in the movie, Speaking of the Devil. Joel Plaskett has a great scene as like a busker. And M. Griner is in this film and you were fantastic. Thank you.

Tell me how this came about that you would be in one week. Well, um, a guy named Abby Fettergreen was working on the film. Um, and he was a fan of my music and he kind of put it forth to the director, Mike McGowan. And, uh, they needed someone who could sing because the scene that i was in um some people have referred to me as a backwoods floozy but it actually uh features me having to sing in french and play guitar so um i got flown out to vancouver to shoot the scene and gosh acting's like really hard work like i i don't know how actors do it i almost don't trust them but you were good in this thank you i would i think at this point in our relationship i would just tell you you know

you sucked at that but i'm being sincere here thanks no it was uh i mean i'm really lucky that the film turned out so well and it's the only film i've ever been in so i'm glad like you know if my grandkids need to watch it it's like oh there's grandma make making out with the guy from the affair no it'll be the guy from Dawson's Creek Dawson's Creek's gonna live Pacey it's gonna eclipse fringe is it oh you know what I forgot about fringe yeah you skipped a whole I skipped the whole thing I don't know fringe is that I don't know I don't know it exists but I't know. It never made my like world or whatever. But I was young enough to appreciate Dawson's Creek and I'm digging this affair.

I missed Fringe. Okay. But you've seen Fringe. I have not, but my husband has. My husband who will drink all this Great Lakes beer has seen Fringe. Your husband is going to love me. He's got a better life than I do.

He is going to be so loaded tonight. He's got a better life than I do. He is going to be so loaded tonight. Okay. So, so anything else you could share about that experience? Like, so have you,

first of all, have you done any acting since? No, it's funny though. I'm thinking about it. I might have some more news on that later, but I don't want to jinx it. But yeah, you know,

I pay my actor membership every year hoping someone else will hire me to be in a film or something but um yeah honestly uh it was it was great but also kind of freaky to meet like a famous person that way like an actor you know um pacey and knowing that you're you have to have this scene with him or whatever. So he was really gracious and it's all good. I don't know. Well, he has to be gracious. He's Canadian. He's got to be.

He can't be full of himself. He's sort of Canadian, yeah. Oh, he's more than sort of. And he's got a great beard, right? He didn't have a beard at the time. Right. But now I guess he does. Yeah.

You're right. Maybe six years ago. We shot that almost almost almost 10 years ago now so that's quite a while away but I love that it was a Canadian really Canadian uh themed uh like a love letter to Canada they call it and I think in a weird way it sort of fueled my band Trent Severn which is a total a band that's dedicated to writing songs about Canada. Yeah. Tell,

okay. That's a wonderful segue. Tell me about, yeah, it's like you're a pro, but you're like, just one quick note. You're kind of like the Howard Stern of movies. And it says,

Howard Stern does one movie. It's a great movie. He does a great job in it. I don't think he's done a movie since. That's you. One and out. Thanks. Great restraint you've shown,

turning down those big roles. Right. Exactly. I know it's awesome. Yeah. Tell me about Trent Severn. that's you one and out thanks great restraint you've shown turning down those big roles right no it's awesome yeah tell me about uh trent severn so trent severn which is we gave it that name because it rolls off the tongue like def leppard or lud zeppelin trent severn uh we're a three piece um dana manning is a guitar player and singer and Lindsay Schindler plays fiddle and I play ukulele bass and there's a banjo in there too somewhere and we do three-part harmony it's sort of like in the style of CSNY um we know we love the band we love Tom Petty so it's sort of a no one I felt like no one had really done a female trio with those influences in Canada

so I really wanted to do it. So that's been my main band for about four years now. How do you afford to be on the bleeding edge in Canada? Like it's hard enough to be on the, you know what I mean? Like it can't be a being like doing things, different things, like really cool, organic, neat things like that can't be very lucrative. You know what? It's actually the opposite. Tell me. I think, you know, growing up, let's watch in video hits and looking at Tina Turner and Madonna and everything. You think that you need to be a pop star

to kind of make it all work. But the reality of it is there's like millions of girls that want to be pop stars and what you have to do to become that, I wasn't willing to do. So with Trent Severn, you know, I had a daughter recently and it really made me feel like I wanted to work with other women. And what the trio is, we do the opposite of everything I did when I was 21. We don't chase managers, agents, we book our own shows shows we don't care about success in other

countries we play small towns and it's sold out and we have the best time and honestly it has been the most lucrative project of my career that was a brilliant answer too i like it so it should you know anyone who's listening out there wants to start a band or whatever actually if you pick like a little theme that your band is about it helps because then people know what it's about instead of like oh i'm just an indie band right so how do you know if you're going to do it like when is it m grinder doing a show and trance like how do you know uh how do you decide which do you just have like this is a tour for trent seven or is this m grinder's tour honestly again you know the opposite of doing it the pop star way. We put our families first and our lives first and we tour on weekends.

And what it turns out to be is like we're more selective about our gigs. And then we have a whole bunch of gigs we've done by the end of the year without having to go away for like six months or whatever. It's actually awesome. And then I do my gigs when i feel like it and it's all good okay did you ever feel like hell i'm forget i'm gonna i'm gonna sell out like i asked because you know pop stars right they always say like the problem the pop star is the packaging matters so much like almost more so than the substance of everybody you know you actually have the package like you're you're you're aesthetically pleasing i'm trying to say it's about creeping out of my basement or whatever put that on my car right you're i am grinder aesthetically pleasing right so did you ever say like screw it i'm gonna you know you

know follow you know become a pop star just uh, uh, sell out. You know what? It's a little bit like being in high school and you know, sometimes you roll with like the people who, I don't know, like maybe don't have your best interests at heart. And the same thing kind of happened to me in the music industry. I didn't really roll with that crowd of like, okay, let's get Am all sexed up and roll her out there and she can learn some dance moves. I just didn't work with those people. So the opportunity never came my way, nor did I seek it out. So honestly, I was also kind of a nerd. I just wanted to write songs and make records. So when you kind of focus on the things that you want, I mean, it might sound boring. Maybe

it's more exciting if you just kind of go for it but honestly i think the bowie experience sort of took the wind out of my sails of like celebrity because i felt i saw that he just didn't enjoy that part of it like he loved the music he loved the recording and i know he still does so not cool and if you know i think it's just the an organic you know for love of the music kind of production to me beats the hell out of like an overproduced, like pop bubble gum for mass appeal. Yeah. I mean, that's fun too. It depends what, as a woman, I think like a lot of women ask me like, what do I, how do I play this game or whatever? And you just have to ask yourself, what do you stand for? And then what are you willing to do? And what are you willing not to do? and some women want to go for it and that's their choice so right excellent and some women

just want free beer from great lakes brewery exactly the uh i have a note here that some guy named bono uh has he's recognized the track almighty Love, which came from your album, The Summer of High Hopes, as one of six songs that he wishes he had written from the last 20 years of music. So I guess someone asked him, you know, pick six songs or whatever. He picked one of yours. Like when you found that out, what did you think? I remember I got the call. My manager at the time called me in the morning and uh said yeah this this is going to come out in q magazine and i was like oh my god thank god people will stop asking me about bowie

right that's all i could think about because you know when you sing with someone like that it sort of eclipsed everything else but no like it's encouraging as an indie artist that i was on his radar and uh you know he could, he could still record, he could record it. Then I'll be impressed. Yeah, that's right. And then you can buy a new car. Yeah, exactly. Uh, yeah. If I were really on the ball, I'd play almighty love, but I actually check the clock and I want to ask you, I have many questions about a song you recorded. song you recorded so this was um this is beautiful things from asian blue which is a neat title why did you call it asian blue i'm not quite sure um that's a good answer yeah sorry moving on i'm sorry i. I told you I'd ask the tough questions. Right. I'm stumped.

Okay, so this song, most famous in my life because the music video for Beautiful Things has a scene in it with my good friend, Mike Kick. So he walks into it. I posted it on my blog, by the way, and I used to share it once in a while just to bust his chops or whatever. He walks in the elevator and he gets a cell phone call and he looks a little pissed off or whatever. So the first question is, how did you meet Mike Kick and how did he end up in the great video for Beautiful Things? Well, Mike would come to my shows and everyone in that video actually are fans and friends. And I just put out the call like, I'm doing this video.

It's going to be like, we're in an elevator. People come in and out. I'm dancing. Who wants to be in it? And everyone just volunteered. No one got paid. They probably got some catering. That's great.

Yeah, so Mike, we kind of had these ideas for different roles of people and he was the businessman which now people have told me since there's just he's never worn a suit did you say that he's never worn a suit i would say he wore i saw i was at his wedding and he wore it at his wedding. He's twice in his life. Maybe three times. His first communion, his appearance in the Beautiful Things video, and his wedding. Three times. Yeah, so...

He did a good job. I thought the acting was really good. I'm surprised he didn't get his actor card after that or whatever. There was his flip phone, which is a segue to his future shop ad oh yeah you've seen that uh he he that's where i still will use the expression like something i'll say something's bananas whatever i still i only watched that ad actually before my recent toronto show um you were late to the uh late to Shop ad party. Yeah, I really was. And I just, you know, him saying the word bananas.

He's just, no one could, no one says it. So that ad, which is also on schwannamike.com if you search it. That's probably where I saw it. You've been there. You're one of those visitors. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. So there's a category, actually, a Mike Kick category.

And this ad is for like NBA video game he did. And it's like, whatever, da-da-da, it's bananas and it's bananas. And it was so kick. Like he's all like jazzed up and it's bananas. And yeah, I use that expression all the time. All right. So here we are. I made it here. We're 36, seven minutes in, but I'm going to share a quick story with everybody listening. Okay. All right. So Mike Kick, uh, uh, was, I'm very, uh, he was a very good friend and not in 2013, he played on my ball team. He'd played on my ball team for like, uh, I don't know, over a decade, he and his wife, Jordy, who's also somebody I love. She's fantastic too.

But my kick was on my ball team. So we, the 2013 ball season, which is, by the way, the last season I played for Raging Storm, but which I think they changed their name to Storm, which was a bad idea. Keep it raging. I was against this idea. I think Colleen did that. I'm not sure who to blame. I decided to blame her, but she. Keep it raging. I was against this idea. I think Colleen did that. I'm not sure who to blame. I decided to blame her,

but she just kept it raging. So he plays the ball season as if everything's normal, although he wasn't hitting very well, but you know, that's fine. We were all getting older and he had a newborn and actually me and my buddy Mofo decided,

you know, kicks off his game. Must be the newborn Ryan kick. And we blamed it on Ryan kick. So we let him off the hook. And I never had a bad anyway. So it's like, even when kicks off his game, he's still hitting way better than I ever hit. I don't know how I played for that team.

Then shortly after the season ended in 2013, like we're only just hit 2016. So this is all so recent. In 2013, he thought he had acid reflux and he and Jordy, he would go to the doctor and they would investigate further. They thought it was acid reflux.

Like, you know, who doesn't have, my brother had that for goodness sakes. Anyway, it turned out to be far worse than that. It turned out to be esophageal cancer. And so we're late 2013 now. And it was awful. Basically, he was, and I remember it vividly because, fuck. All right. So you met Jarvis upstairs. Well, he's, he's born on, uh, April 9 and on April 10, you know, uh, Jarvis meets his brother and sister for the first time at St. Joe's hospital in Parkdale. And I get a text from Jordy and she says, uh, she says, come and come and say goodbye. And we went to, uh, we went to the hospital, Princess Margaret. And, uh, my kids were awesome because they knew what

we were doing and they were right there with me. And we, uh, went to say goodbye to kick and kick. And I, every time we saw each other and it was, you know, I like a lot of people, but I only really like a small handful of people. And the fucker was on that list. And Jordy's on that list too. But I gave him, we did this exploding fist thing where we did the fist pump and then it explodes, right? And he was in the bed. Didn't look like my kick, but that cancer will do that to you. And I gave him the exploding fist bump and said goodbye. And two days later, he passed away at the age of 32. And what I want to learn from you is I want to learn exactly what inspired a song on your new album called 21st Century Ballads, which came out in September. And there's a song on there,

which actually, hell, I'll play it in the background because it's my show and you can't stop me. I'm Greiner. But this song is called Visiting Hours. And tell me what inspired this and how this came about, if you don't mind. Sure. Let the morning come Let the vultures feed I'm not leaving you I've frozen this moment Talk about it down Let tomorrow drown

I am not leaving you I'm holding you closer. Visiting ours, come and go. I'll stay here by your side. Stay here by your side Your heart and mine Forever tied So, yeah, so Mike Mike would come to my shows. And one thing as like an indie artist, you really get to know who comes to your shows

because it's not like a thousand people are there. It's like you've got a handful of people that you know. You know their names. And Mike would always order every one of my albums so i knew his name i knew his face and i always would see him at my shows so um i had done like a crowdfunding thing for the album before this and mike had pledged some money on it and uh we were talking on the phone and he told me that he was sick. And I talked to him for a while, talked to him about his daughter and Jordi.

And these are new people in his life that I didn't know about, you know. So, I'm one of these optimist type people where I feel like, when I talk to him, I was like, oh, he's going to beat that. And I'll talk to him when the album's out and all that. But then months and months passed and then I got an email from Jordi and she told me that he had passed away and I just my heart sank and we became Jordi and I started talking and she told me basically how his illness had progressed and how he had all his friends with him around him in the hospital and that she stayed with him and and the whole story basically and so Visiting Hours is sort of a tribute to Mike and his life and it's sort of from Jordi's point of view really and so I dedicated the album to to Mike's memory and also to Ryan, his daughter. It's a beautiful song.

Thank you. Actually, it's everyone's favorite from the record. I had this with my wife because I was telling her I had trouble. I really like the song, but I know who it's about. And when I hear it, I picture them. And I was trying to think, would I have liked the song, but I know who it's about. And when I hear it, I picture them, right? And I was trying to think, like, would I have liked this song if I, let's say, I didn't know what it was about or the direct connection to the people you're talking about. And I decided, yes, this is just a good song.

That's what I've decided. Well, it's very simple. And people who don't know Mike or don't know the whole story actually have requested that I play it at shows. And when I do play it at my show I do a slide presentation with uh you know images of Jordy images of Mike and Ryan and I tell the story of you know how he'd always come to my shows and um then people go they come up to me later and they say oh I knew there was something about that song the lyric um i am not leaving you i'm i'll just i'm just hold i'll hold you closer is that right

uh like it's just so true first of all because like jordy was right there you know, every minute. And it's so hauntingly beautiful. And that extra layer where you know the subjects and love the subjects and just, it's just incredible. And it's just, like I said, hauntingly beautiful. So sad, but so gorgeous as a song. When I played it in Toronto, I played a little show at Say What to commemorate my 20th anniversary of my first show at Say What. Jordi came and some of Mike's friends came and it really actually meant so much to me that they'd come up to me after and tell me stories.

And yeah, I mean, it's different for you because you're really close friends. But for me, it's it sort of calls into mind how important it is for artists that we have that support from fans and friends. Like, you know, now I don't his face isn't at any show now. So it's but his memory is sort of there. So it's I don't think people think about that when they go and support an artist it's like it really means a lot to us he really was your greatest ambassador because i'm a music lover and he worked at hmv yeah so he would have so many discs like cds like like so much. And I used to take trips.

This is when he used to live at his parents' house in Etobicoke. And one of my things was I'd go over and he'd like, oh, Boone, you got to listen to this one or you got to listen. And I'd take him home and I'd listen or whatever and then whatever. And like I mentioned earlier in the program, that girl versions. But always, so much M. Griner I heard because Kik said, you've got to I'm getting a girl versions. It's one. So, but,

but always so much M Griner I heard because Kixit, you've got to hear this. You love like, I know he, I know the phrase he dragged me to your show. It was, it, a few people have been dragged to my show by Mike.

So, so Mike loved your music and we all love that big son of a bitch, that big, strong, good looking, and we all love that big son of a bitch, that big, strong, good-looking, wonderful human being who left us far too soon. So on behalf of his friends and his family, thank you for visiting ours, because it's a remarkable tribute, and I love it.

Well, thank you. In fact, every episode until now, I believe I've closed with lowest of the low, but I'm going to play it again. Because no one can stop me. What are you going to do? Well, thank you. Come on, you can't stop this now. It's too late.

So thank you very much for coming over and having this chat with me. Thanks. And that brings us to the end of our 154th show. You can follow me on Twitter at Toronto Mike and M is at M Griner. See you all next week. The morning come Let the vultures feed I am not

leaving you I've frozen this moment Talk about it down Lay tomorrow Talk about it down there Tomorrow, drop

I am not leaving you I'm holding you closer Visiting us, come and go I'll stay here by your side Your heart and mine forever time Let their voices roar Let another face Through that door

I'm not leaving you I've frozen this moment And when the minute comes The end of mortal love I won't be leaving you I'll be holding you closer Visiting hours, come and go I'll stay here by your side Your heart In my

Forever time