Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Eric Schenkman from Spin Doctors: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1621

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

In this 1621st episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Spin Doctors guitarist Eric Schenkman about forming the band, breaking through with Two Princes, leaving and re-joining the group, and maintaining a solo presence. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1621 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. RecycleMyElectronics.ca Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Building Toronto Skyline, a podcast and book from Nick Gainey's,

from Fusion Corp. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, making his Toronto mic'd debut, is Eric Schenkman. Welcome Eric. Thanks for having me. What a pleasure. I want to thank right off the top, Blair Packham. How do you know Blair Packham? I think we might have gone to

the same school. If we didn't, I know him from all the people that I went to high school with. And this is Jarvis Collegiate. Yeah you got that right. Yeah. Okay I did my homework here today. True or false did Fergus Hamilton also go to Jarvis Collegiate with you? No as false he's older than me however his youngest brother and I were very good friends. Okay so same high school obviously different eras. Exactly. He's got a number of years on you of course. Okay, so same high school, obviously different eras. Exactly, yeah. He's got a number of years on you, of course. Okay, and again, maybe this gentleman also much older than you,

but did Mark Jordan go to this high school as well? He may have, it's possible. He's also older than me, yeah. Okay. I sound old, but. No, no, no, you know what? I got a list of these greats that have attended Jarvis Collegiate,

like these great musicians. Was that a hot spot that have attended Jarvis Collegiate, like these great musicians. Was that a hot spot for musicians, Jarvis Collegiate? Well yeah, it kind of was when I was there. I mean it's right downtown, which makes it kind of cool and it's a huge school. And there's like a lot of kids there. And so when I went to high school, I guess it was this with late seventies and everybody dropped out. So most of the people that I went to high school with didn't finish high school and, and a lot of us got into bands.

Let's go see the sign of a great school is when most of the students don't finish. Yeah. It, it, I mean, you know, it's like you leave and you figure out something to do with your life. But in all fairness, you know, school was incredibly boring and there were, there wasn't a lot of great teachers. I'm not athletic. So I didn't, I don't even know. I think they had a team, but I know they were called bulldogs. But there was a lot of really good musicians kicking around and it was inspiring in that direction and also being downtown. You know, I mean, back then we didn't have,

as you know, we didn't have photo ID. I mean, screw the phone. It's like we didn't even have photo ID. So you could just borrow somebody's paper driver's license and get into a bar. So, you know, we all just really like, we, we started, you know, rock and roll band or got in one and you know went and played in clubs literally. Wild I have another name I'm gonna throw at you because again I got this info from Blair and the reason I

shouted out Blair Packham is because I had this like epiphany one day that I should have Eric Schenkman from Spin Doctors on Toronto Mike. Firstly we're gonna get to this in a minute, but a member of Spin Doctors is a Toronto guy. Like, I think a lot of people will be mind-blowing to know that this, you know, there's a guy in the Spin Doctors who lives here in Toronto. We're gonna get to that. But I knew Blair knew you, and I said, Blair, I need contact info for Eric, and he delivered, man. So I just want to tell Blair, way to go, buddy. Yeah, thanks, Blair. I tell Blair way to go buddy.

Yeah thanks Blair. I love Blair. Blair's great. He was in a band called the Jitters back then and we have mutual friends so I still know Blair and yeah thank you Blair. He's the last of the Red Hot Fools. Absolutely yeah that's exactly what I'm telling you. Here's another mind blow, can't get off this but there's another FOTM. FOTM means friend of Toronto Mike. Christopher Ward went to Jervis Collegiate. He did and that would be a guy that I don't know. However, Kurt Schefter went to Jervis and Kurt and I were very close and we actually both came from the States originally and we arrived here at extremely young ages. And I met him, actually his brother and I, his older brother, he's about a year younger than me,

and his older brother, his name is Eric Schefter, and my name is Eric Schenkman. Right. And actually it's S-C-H-E-F and S-C-H-E-N and we were in the same kindergarten class. And so I met him pretty much instantly when we got here. Like a roll call you were next to each other. Yeah, he was Eric 1 and I was Eric 2. And then Kurt, I met Kurt like right at that same time. So I've known Kurt like, you know, all my Toronto life.

Well, now that you've mentioned Kurt, I need to shout out the raving mojos. Absolutely, dude. I'm very familiar with the raving mojos. I know Blair, I know Ken Fox was the original bass player. I knew him, I lived in New York for a while, for a long time actually. I know Ken from when he moved there. I know the original drummer, Max. I know the next drummer, Miles. I've seen the mojos. I saw their first gig with Kurt at the Masonic Temple. I used to, and then those guys used to play at the turning point. My band used to play at the turning point. So I really go way back with those guys. Well, I just had Blair not Packham. Although apparently Packham might have played with the Raving Mojos for possibly. No, I don't think he played with them, but I think we all we were all on on a bill somehow together, you know,

because when you say we what so what band are you in at this time? I was in a group actually that the Jarvis group that I was in was called the other side and we were we were You know, we kind of did like we did some original stuff But mostly back then most of the groups were sort of coverage and so we were it was funny man We did like, you know, I was into like other things, but these guys were kind of bluesy and almond brothersy

and grateful daddy and stuff like that. Like jam bands. Sort of jam bands. Sort of like the spin doctors. Way before jam bands. Yeah, so, you know, so my very, very good friends from then, you know, we used to just skip school and go up to Graham Clark's place

and play in the basement and smoke weed. All right, so I'm going to assign you a little task here, but when you get an hour free time, you can listen to Blair Richard Martin on Toronto mic. I am. I'm doing it. I love Blair. Blair's brilliant. And I don't think he's done. I'm this is me tootin my own horn, but if you're looking for like a long form conversation with Blair, keep looking, man, cause this is one stop shopping. You're going to end up on Toronto mic. Yeah. That's where you go Okay

So raving mojos and the funny thing about raving mojos is I never knew raving mojos because I missed them when they were playing live And it's not like that's not like you can access studio Productions of raving mojo music or whatever. So literally I'm on the show and Steve Kane I'm on the show and Steve Kane, former president at Warner Brothers Canada there, Steve Kane talks about his favorite band of all time as the Raving Mojos. And I take a note, like literally take a note, like why do I not know this local band that is this guy's favorite band of all time? And legendary really.

Yeah. Yeah. And then you start to look for history and there's a little bit here and there on the web. Yeah, you can find a little bit. You can find a little bit here and there on the, on the web, but you can find a little bit. You can find a little bit here and there and you start to educate, but you're like, is this guy around Blair Richard Martin? I need to talk to this guy. And then you find out that he's a brilliant artist now. Like, I mean, he paints and he's incredible, but at the time I can tell you, I mean, the Mojos were like our kind of, they were like downtown Toronto's teenage head.

They were like our Ramones, you know? I mean, they really were, they were of they were like downtown Toronto's teenage head they were like our Ramones you know I mean they really were they were great my teenage head drumsticks there you go just in case you want to you know grab a Jean Champagne and gave these to me amazing you go hey man how the heck you were so okay I got questions like 101 questions but this might help get us there which is you talked about you could get into bars underage because there's no photo ID. Well, I know a guy in the early 80s, he was 15 years old and he was playing in bars with the spoons. Okay, this guy's name is Rob Bruce. He was the keyboardist in spoons in the early 80s, but he's only 15. He was, I think he had a note that let him get into these bars or something.

I don't know how it worked. It didn't really, you didn't really need to know. You just needed to fool the guy at the door. Nobody really cared. And to know you just needed to fool the guy at the door Nobody really cared and if you were up the band the guy the door didn't care not at all I mean they really didn't care at all. I mean some bars might have I I Had my friends brothers older brothers idea and I was about like eight inches shorter than him And we just go and get in together guy would like look at the he must been a giant like you're pretty tall guy No, I grew kind of late. I was pretty pretty short until

I was about 16. This giant you're talking the friendly giant. OK, so Rob Pruss wrote in and he said, I knew Eric's dad. Yeah, Peter Schenckman. There you go. He was contractor for musicians

at the Royal Alex and was also a world class cellist, world-class cellist. Cellist? Yeah, cellist. Well, you know what, that's how fucked up culture I am, man. Yeah, you know, it's all right. But he was with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra. Cell phone.

Did I say cellist? Yeah, we don't call it a cell phone. So, you know, it's all right. I want your permission to fix that in post. I don't want the listenership to know I said cellist. You got it. That's embarrassing. Okay. Cellist with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra. Super cool guy who sadly passed away in 2006.

Yes, he did. So I'm sorry to hear that. No, thanks. So your dad kind of, is that a gateway into the world of music for you at all? That your dad's kind of- Yeah, sure it is. I mean, my old man was a he was a super good he was really really good he was really a virtuoso he uh he and his father was a conductor my grandfather was a conductor my grandmother was my grandfather's concert master. I'll just just really briefly

my grandpa was um uh I don't want to go that far back but I can tell you that he he was he was a conductor he worked in Richmond and Norfolk Virginia and he started he conducted their symphonies and he started their youth orchestras and my grandmother and him and he toured in Asia for a minute and he yeah and so then my father was the oldest kid my dad it was just he hated his dad his dad was kind of a shitty dad he was a And so then my father was the oldest kid, my dad, it was just, he hated his dad. His dad was kind of a shitty dad. He was a good guy, I liked him, but you know,

love skips a generation. And my dad had a terrible time with his father. He's the oldest of five, and he left home at about 15 or 16 and ended up, I don't know how he did this, but he learned how to play the cello in about I don't know eight or nine years And and it's a really hard instrument and he ended up at a school called Curtis in Philadelphia Which is world-class and by the time he was about 19 He was he he was well he got through the army. I just said this on Facebook somebody was talking about this

I think it was Stan Myzak my bass playing friend that I was telling you About he was asking who's the most famous person you ever opened for and I just thought Well, I could go and list some stuff which I don't really I didn't really feel like doing and I thought of Peter my dad And I was like well He played it he played in the White House for Khrushchev and and JFK out in a string quartet out of the army band I thought that's about the coolest gig you could ever have So yeah, and then he also was a soloist in the Casals Festival in Puerto Rico in 67, 68, and I was just like three and four at that time. And that's a heavy, heavy thing

for those of you that don't know, Pablo Casals was one of the great, great cellists of all time. And if you're, if you're, you know know keyed to go to his festival and be a soloist at a young age that really says something so after that I guess he met my mom da da da da da he was we had a yada yada yeah and eventually a couple cities later I you know I was already on the planet and we ended up in Toronto Seiji Ozawa was the conductor and TSO at the time a brilliant conductor and the TSO at the time, a brilliant conductor and the TSO at that time was like fucking fabulous. Can I say that on the mic? You can say fucking fabulous. I can't even say cellist but you can say that.

That's PH by the way, fucking fabulous. He's a fabulous conductor and he hired my old man and he imported us so I became a landed immigrant like on day one. You're answering one of my big questions because this is the mind blow when you say, hey, you know, there's like a found, not just some Johnny come lately, but like a founding member of Spin Doctors lives in Toronto. Yeah.

But you're not born here, right? So you're an American, but it sounds like basically your dad joins the TSO. And then next thing you know what, you're in Toronto. So you can go to Jarvis Collegiate. Fun fact for you though my thirdborn's name is Jarvis. Wow cool. There you go everything connects here. Okay so so you basically yeah if your dad's moving to Toronto to be in the TSO you're gonna end up in Toronto too but you stuck around like you didn't I

mean I got to get so much info out of here. It's easy It's easy to explain it. Okay, when you move when you're imported to a big symphony Like my old man was my parents were almost divorced already, but he I figured this out myself I think he really needed to come with his family at that time It was sort of a thing so he arrived with both of us my mother and I and I was just about I don't know Four years old and so I really grew up here you know I arrived in Toronto the tallest building was like either the Royal York or the TD Center and I grew up in the city grew up and and we've always lived downtown my mom who was awesome awesome lady she passed about three years ago and she decided I'm done moving around this place is

pretty cool and I'm sticking and my father stayed here too so you so you know there you go. That's the short of it. Okay, so now you're in Toronto, you're loving music, you're going to Jarvis Collegiate and all this. By the way, fun little fact that you know, but just for the listenership. So we talked about the Raven Mojos, but Kurt Schefter goes on to play with the Atlanta Miles. That's where I was gonna go initially because you said Christopher Ward. So that's where we full circle. I don't know Christopher Ward, but I know Kurt Schefter. And so Christopher Ward is the guy that wrote all those songs for Atlanta Miles. And Kurt is the guitar player that you'll

hear, you know, Black Velvet. And so, and he was a fantastic young guitar player. And it was a big inspiration for me, too. It was really, there's a couple of other guys in the city, too, there's a guy named Dave Hamilton. The three of us were kind of just, you know, we sort of all figured we were just gonna be guitar players. And it was mutual. Another fun fact, as you say.

I love fun facts. There was a great music store on not Wellesley with the you know whatever it's called, on Harvard and Bathurst called Ring Music and it was owned by Mike McLuhan who was Marshall McLuhan's son and all of the cool you know Tony Duggan Smith and this guy Tony DiMardo and guy I used to study with Jeff Peacock they all worked out of Ring Music and if you know so we would just skip off and, you know, go to ring music and, you know, play guitars.

I think Kurt ended up working there. We all ended up studying with somebody taking lessons with some older guy there. And so that was, you know, it was pretty cool. And so Kurt ended up being, you know, yeah, he ended up being the guitar player in Atlanta miles. And I just about the same time, a little bit earlier than that, I moved to New York

and to the city. My mother grew up in the city. I'm actually like a fourth generation New Yorker really. And that's a whole other story. Your phone case tells me you love New York. I know, there it is, right? But it's got a Presto card in it. So it's sort of That's my whole my whole history right there and you can tell I really am not into technology because it's like an iPhone

eight and a half so But yeah, so um, yeah, so there you have it, you know, so so yeah Kurt and then Kurt was at the time It would get back to the Mojos. I mean, yeah, he got drafted by Blair Blair was a little older and Kurt was about, I don't know, 14 or 15. He's just one of these guys that just, you know, his hands were just built for the guitar and so you know, I used to go to his place and he'd be like taking the guitar, we'd take the guitar apart, he'd take the guitar apart and like put some other pickup in,

this and that and the other thing. It was fun times back then, I mean you know, and as you know, there's no surveillance and so it was just fun to like you'd be doing whatever dogs were walking around the city without collars and Nobody was going to school. I mean geez, you know, you try to tell the kids of today this and Yeah, so anyways, that's a shout out to Kurt for sure. He's a badass So he's on that but he was also part of this this group That's a shout out to Kurt for sure. He's a badass. So he's on that, but he was also part of this group, the Mojos, and Blair drafted him into the band.

And I remember clearly when that happened. And I remember I went to the Masonic Temple, I think it was the first time I was ever there. That's the concert hall now. For those of you that don't know. Yeah, D88 Young. Yeah, and it was just fantastic. What a fantastic group.

And so there was a club called The Turning Point on Bloor Street, and it was like run by this crazy old couple Joe and Ann and and everybody played there. I think we played a five night stint there actually. We had a pretty good core following from the school and it was funny back then everybody wanted to be the other guys. So Curt and I used to I'd be like, you know, man, that's the baddest ass band you're in. And he'd be like, yeah, but I wish I was doing what you're doing. And it was sort of like, we had that kind of relationship.

So it was mutually beneficial. And when I went to New York. Oh, why did you go to New York? I went to New York to go to school cause I couldn't finish school in Jarvis. And as I said before, nobody finished Jarvis except for the smart kids. And, and you know, and so, um, you know,

one thing led to another, my old man had gone to this weird boarding school in Vermont and my mother was literally beside herself that I wasn't going to school. And I think, I think it got to me and really at the very, very, very last minute. Um, I said, well, yeah, I'll do grade 12 because I'd already dropped out of grade 12. And you know, we had 13 grades at the time. So I wasn't going to do that.

And she says, well, you know, we had the number of this, the school, the Putney school, and I had two, I had a cousin that went there in the fifties. My dad dropped out of it. That's what happened. He had dropped out of this school. And I thought, yeah, I'll go finish school at the school that my old man dropped out of it that's what happened he had dropped out of this school and I thought yeah I'll go finish school at the school that my old man dropped out of and they let me in because they needed an international

student a quota and so it's a funny sort of thing right I'm actually from there but I actually got in. You were counting as an employee. Yeah exactly it's just you know I'm a can American a true can American so I finished there and came back here for a couple of years. I played in a country punk outfit called All the Dead Heroes and we lived in the coolest ass warehouse. We lived in this great Victorian, I don't know if anybody out there remembers there was the TIF building now, the TIF theater was a parking lot. It was a huge parking lot. There was like a little diner and there was a there's but It was a huge parking lot. There was like a little diner and there was a huge parking lot across the street. If anybody knows

the Indian motorcycle building, it's on the corner of, I don't know, John, maybe it's Peter and King. And next to it there was a parking lot. Next to that there was this huge old Victorian house and there was a record store on the first floor called the Jazz and Blues Record Center. And me and my friends ended up renting the back of that building and sort of converting it into a warehouse living space. And we had like beer parties and stuff.

Wow. And we had our band there. And so there we were, we were there. And I lived there for a couple of years, like 80. I worked at the bamboo club. I was a prep cook at the bamboo club. Okay. And got

tired of that, phoned up a friend that I knew from the boarding school in Vermont and they recommended this, you know, they were going to the school called the New School for Social Research in Manhattan and I applied and I got in and I moved to New York. You moved in New York. What band were you in with Corky Lang from Mountain? The Corkster. Corky and I were in a band called Cork. Go figure. Okay, well, Mississippi Queen, baby.

Yeah, my favorite song. It's Homer Simpson's favorite song. Corky and I are like brothers from another mother. We actually look like brothers. We're very good friends. I'm still very, very, very tight with him. I've written a lot of songs with him over the years. And we're in constant communication.

Constant contact. He just turned like 75, I think. Okay, well happy birthday to Corky. Happy birthday, Corky. Okay, so now we've got you in New York as you're going to the school. So does this lead to the absolutely spin doctors origin story? It does yeah so let's see. Don't want to be too long-winded but you know what

this is the place to be long-winded. Those other you know interview shows they're like you know brevity man. Five you got five minutes let's wrap it up. I'm like slow the fuck down I need every detail. I mean we've got craft beer with teeth so there you go yeah okay so um so. So I go to the school and it turns out that the new school is a really cool school and it was started in the 20s, I think. And it's right downtown in the village in Manhattan, which is exactly where my grandmother

still lived at the time. So it was super, super awesome for me. Cause I could go visit with Edith and she was a really cool lady. My grandmother was the chairman of Planned Parenthood New York for a long time and her and her friend, Jane Jacobs. There's a name. Yeah. And there's a Toronto name. She, they saved Washington square park in the late fifties. They actually stopped a guy named Robert Moses from busting through the park and making Fifth Avenue South

because he wanted to do real estate south of there. It's a great story. It's a really great story. They got all these women together, and they had press conferences in the ladies' house that had triplets with the diapers hanging on the thing. They got a petition that was on a rolling pin. They rolled it down the, the courthouse steps. There's all these stories about it, but they won. And Edith was awesome. She was just great. Her kids didn't like her,

but I loved it. We got along like a house on fire. So anyways, so I'm at the school. I started at the school. I didn't even bring a guitar to New York and won't have anything to do with it. Like I was like, I was going to be an anthropologist, you know? So I go to the school and I start taking these bring a guitar to New York and won't have anything to do with it. Like I was like I was gonna be an anthropologist you know so I go to the school and I start taking these cool classes and it was amazing. It really opened up my head. I was there for about five minutes and this kid named Tommy Dog who had like black fingernail polish and all these piercings figured out that I played the guitar so before I knew it I was like in a punk band and I

did that for a while and made a couple of like recordings with him. I came back to Toronto after that, this great year of school where I like learned so much it was just, I mean New York is the best city to learn stuff in and I came back because I didn't have any money and I cut the grass at UCC for a summer. I became part of the groundskeeping crew. And I started a band here too, that had a trio here called the Mo-Fo-istics. And they drummer from the Bourbon Tabernacle Choir,

a good old friend of mine named John Bell and I, and we did a few gigs. And then I went back to New York with some bread and I think I got a Pell Grant. I think Trump just took those away. But anyways. And I... Well, what time is it?

He might have taken some other things away. Oh, he's taken a lot of shit away by now. Yeah, absolutely. And so, yeah, so I went back to go to my second year of school and I think I brought a guitar back with me. I had a guitar by this point. And I was doing the enrollment now, the enrollment thing for that year. So it was like late August, just about September.

And we're in late 80s, where are we here? We are 85. Okay. 85, I think, probably. Yeah. 85 I think probably. Yeah, 85 I think. And so I go and I'm enrolling and for those of you that don't know, the new school actually owns some other schools.

They were affiliated with the Parson School of Design, which is around the corner. So technically I went there too. So you could take classes there. So I had been taking photography. I took photography class the year before and I wanted to take another one. So I had to go with the Parsons building to enroll I don't know where I was going but I had a I had a guitar with me and I

get on the elevator to go up to the ninth floor or it was the eighth floor the ninth floor to register for photography for photography and the door the door opens I get on and this other cat gets on this old guy and the door the door opens I get on and this other cat gets on this old guy and the door closes and I look at him and he's got like a saxophone case on his shoulder and like he's got brochures under his arm and I can see the back cover and there's this list of names and I say to him hey man I have like records by almost everybody on your list and he's like oh yeah you know maybe I didn't have a guitar.

Maybe I did, he goes, you play, whatever. I said, yeah, he says, well, I'm starting a school here. I'm starting a jazz program here this year. You know, you wanna be in it? And so instead of going to the eighth floor, I went to the ninth floor and I played like all the jazz stuff I knew, cor cork of auto maybe and a blues and His name was Arnie Lawrence and he had he was just a brilliant jazz edger mccator and just the coolest dude

And he looked at me and he said edger mccator is also a Simpsons term. Yeah, I think I got it from dr. John Maybe maybe I need to know my origin stories. I probably don't know mine either, but so I said, you know, I Maybe I need to know my origin stories. Please continue. Nah, I probably don't know mine either. But so I said, you know, I, I guess when I auditioned and that's basically the story. And, and he says to me, Arnie had a lot of really good lines

that you would say to people. And he looked at me and he goes, nah, we can do something with you. And so from that moment on, I was, I was, I became part of that program. And for anybody that doesn't or hasn't, I really don't like school that much. I like like odd schools.

The classes have to be small. Something has to be weird. And one of the best things is, we had a free class in the eighth grade in Deer Park. And that was amazing. 80 kids, you didn't do any normal subjects. You got to pick your own, you know, I just do well in that kind amazing 80 kids. You didn't do any normal subjects. You got to pick your own, you know Yeah, I just do well in that kind of an environment. And so, you know, this guy was just starting a school So what does that mean? It means that

he was the the Dean of Parsons was had a big band and There were all these guys that weren't professional musicians, but Arnie was the guy that they hired as a ringer He was their soloist so and he did it because he knew the guy was the Dean of Parsons and then he sold this guy his curriculum because there was no jazz school in Manhattan but that's where all the clubs are so he's like this is ridiculous there's no there's no school here but all the clubs are here and I know everybody and he had played with he was in the Doc Severinsen band he had played with you know all sorts of people you know all

these guys you know New York's famous for musicians that you've never heard of that are better than any musician that you've ever heard and he knew all those guys and so he started the school and that meant he had to pick the student body so what do you do you have to you have to really make a show so Arnie went out and he found all these amazing kids. I could, I could list the names. Like there's guys that just, you know, they're today they're fantastic musicians. Like, you know, they played with everybody. I know I could get into it, but you know,

just trust me. And so, um, I can tell. And so, so I ended up at that school and I ended up just meeting all these these and you know I was like a rock blues guitar player and He needed you know, we were like the sweat hogs Because there was all these guys that could play like, you know Bebop and jazz and this and that and he he was really informed and very good at Edgimacating and he needed the polarity of having a bunch of dummies and a bunch of smart kids.

I'll give you an example, like the first exam, the first year, and we didn't even have this, the school was, they were lending us rooms. You know, like, you know, and bringing in instruments and like getting them from here and there. It was fantastic. So the first exam, he rented a yellow school bus and he took he took all of us up to Liberty, New York which is in the Catskills where all the cats used to play and We had this group called the trucking company that we had he made us form, you know

It's for you know There was it was a creative program as well. And so the trucking company was like these two brothers from New Jersey, me, a great drummer named Abe Fogel, and a guy named John Popper. And John is the harmonica player and singer for Blues Traveler. Of course. That's when I met John.

And so we go up to play. And the cats that were playing in the in the other groups for these Like for example a guy named Larry Golding's is one of the he just won the best organ player on the day and the And that on the public vote for the downbeat Magazine Poll this year as an example of a guy and it Brad Meldow is another guy that was at that school another World-class piano player and I could just go on and on.

Once I start thinking about it, I'll just start rattling off names. Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that we go to do this gig and at the last minute, he switches the order on us. So we played last and the other guys played first and they were so angry as I recall. But the thing was, is that as soon as we hit everybody started dancing and it was a real lesson it was a really really amazing lesson in music because You know like people think that jazz is this just this heavy cerebral thing that's inaccessible unless you're like really good at I don't know what and

that's inaccessible unless you're like really good at I don't know what and the reality is is that jazz is like it's kind of advanced blues and it's not really that highbrow in many many ways it's related it's people's music you know so it's like you know jazz is a teacher funk is the preacher and so anyways that was the that's that I ended up at that school I ended up meeting John I ended up meeting Chris Baronron, because John brought him in from Princeton when he was a friend of his. I ended up meeting Aaron Comas. He's the drummer for the Spin Doctors. And I put the Spin Doctors together because I was playing in John, in this other band, and then John brought Blues Traveler to New York. At the time, I think he was about 18.

Brendan, the drummer, was about 15. And Bobby and Chan were maybe, I think he was about 18. Brendan the drummer was about 15 and Bobby and Chan were maybe 17. They were young guys. They ended up in Brooklyn living in a house and everybody dropped out of R&E school because we all started doing music. And so John says to me one day, I mean it was so cool. We used to go around the city. There was a blues jam we used to go to and we just sort of like this there was a club called Nightingale which was like just this amazing kind of melting pot it's you know there's a lot of story here I can't but what I'm trying to say is that John turns to me one day and he goes well I'm bringing my band to the city but you know I want this to be my second

band and I've always been a little bit you know feisty so I said fuck that man I don't want to be in your second band So I said to Chris because I'd already met him and he used to open for them as just an acoustic act So I went to Chris and I said dude Like let's just make let's I got let's make a band but you know, just lose the acoustic guitar you'll be a great front man and And then pretty much right after that as soon as as he agreed, then I heard Aaron playing drums from behind a closed door.

And I knocked on the door and he answered. And that was when I met him. It was the beginning of a school year, I think. And I said, you know, something like, do you want to be in a working band? Which he thinks, he still tells that story. He thinks it's a funny thing. And he said, yeah.

But my point was like, you know, you want to be in a real group. I don't want to be in a group or like we're all just like you know session guys and we don't I want you know and so that was that was the beginning of the spin doctors and then named the spin doctors me yeah I was I was at I was at Edith my grandma's house for dinner at one point because she lived a couple blocks away and she had this great rent control apartment in the village for since the 40s and rentals you know she rented it until

it was over and that was it and it was Bush one was running for re-election so whatever year that was probably 86 and so reelection means reelection yeah right so it was the other one that was okay it was the prior it was 88 88 so would have been did 88 and then it's 88 so it would have been like kind of an 87 when he was you know so it would have been 87 that's right late 87 and we had put the group together and, and, uh, she, she says to me, um, I used to go over there and watch Jeopardy with her and, um, and the news and, uh, I was in the kitchen getting her something and I hear,

she didn't have a voice. She smoked and from like the eight years old until 98 and I just, is smoke is good for you. It can be a, I hear like See, Smokey's good for you. It can be, yeah. I hear like, Tuts! Get in here! And she used to call me Tuts. And so I go in. She goes, you gotta see this! And I looked and it was right after the

points of light speech. Which Neil Young quotes in Yeah, he's got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. Yeah, right, exactly. Machine gun hand. And she couldn't right, exactly. Machine gun hands. And she couldn't handle that shit, she hated that. And it's just like, what does this mean?

She said, look, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. And I've never seen this before, but they've got this room full of people, and they're explaining what he said. They're called spin doctors. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? The next day I went into, I was talking to this guy that used to

Be a poetry teacher at the new school who grew up with Vernon Reid actually got him sick who is an FOTM I know I saw that I saw that I read the list. Yeah, make sure you're doing your homework Yeah, Vernon's awesome, you know, actually Aaron plays with Vernon sort of semi-regularly and yeah Vernon's great and so Yeah, and Siku goes, somehow I said, I told that story and somehow it came up, we were talking, somebody said that'd be a great name for a band

or however it happened. And I was like, yeah. And I went to Chris and I said, I got the name, man. Spin Doctors. And he goes, I hate it. Now I've named bands before. So I said to him, I said, okay, that's cool, dude.

You got two weeks, come up with a better one and we'll change it. Well, that never happened. That never happened. So that's the birth of the Spindogters right there. That's what happened. And we just set about, we wrote a lot of songs together and everybody brought in what they already had and the rest is kind of our history, which you can ask me

about if you want to. But that's how it started. Okay. That's how it begins. So now we have spin doctors in New York City, the founder here, you got Chris uh, doing the vocals and everything. I'm going to ask you about one song in particular. So I'm hoping you'll give me some details. You can guess what song, I don't know, but we're going to hear it in the headphones here. Let's get a little taste of this. Yeah. There it is.

You can talk over top of it. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that there's no one listening who hasn't actually heard this song in the past couple of weeks. This song, it's still everywhere. Yeah, it's Omnipresent at your Supermarket or in your Uber. It's my special favorite song actually in the whole world. And so yeah, this is Chris at his finest with the riff by me and the brilliant drum fill of

the intro of Aaron Comas and that's our big song. That's your big song. Mm-hmm. So many questions, but maybe dive in a little deeper. Like, you come up with a riff and you're like, hey, I got this thing, and you play it. How does this song form? So Chris is really quite brilliant. He's the best lyricist that I know,

and he's just such an oddball. And I love him for it. And so he had like the basic song but it was just kind of geeky and stupid and so you know I just like rockified it man. I made that chord progression as mine and we put it together and we played it too fast for a few years and then slowed it down thankfully before the recording. You know it was a funny, we had other songs too and we were really like, we had a lot of good songs and we had a very good core audience in New York but Two Princes, it was

just this, when you heard it you just kind of knew. I was like you know what, if this ever really sees the light of day, it's gonna go crazy, you know what I mean? This is you. Yeah, and it's all me on the guitar. Uh huh. That's a 59 Gibson Les Paul I rented off of Artie Smith and a 410 Baseman, also from 1959. What a blast.

Uh huh. a 410 Baseman also from 1959. What a blast. Yeah baby. That drum fill is great there too. They all just came together here man. This is just... We sort of, the three of us have a really great pocket together. We fit and we went through a few bass players and Aaron was playing with this cat, Mark White, in a band called Spade and we were having problems like solidifying our bass player thing. One day, I lived with Aaron actually, we lived on Elizabeth Street together and Chris used to come and just hang. He lived with the traveler in Brooklyn and one day

Aaron says, you gotta come down and see this guy. He's kind of an oddball but I think he might really be the guy. And as soon as I heard him play two notes I was like, oh this dude is amazing. And then we made a rehearsal and we played about a half a song and just stopped and it was like we found the fourth guy. And you know, it was just such a great band. Oh my God, what a killer band. We actually have a different bass player now. That's a whole other story.

Well, what is that story? So Mark, kind of right-winged out, man. Oh, anti-vaxx. Not just that, anti-mask, anti-vaxx, anti-flying, got to drive everywhere, you know, a Trumper. He's a black man in a white supremacist, like, you know, world. And I love him. Don't get me wrong. America's full of all sorts of, you know, opposites,

but Mark, he just warped out, man, of all sorts of you know opposites but Mark he just warped out man and he just you know and it was very fortunate for us because the band was gonna end again and and we were like Mark just it's so so weird he saw an advertisement of it on a picture of an advertisement on a New York City subway saying something about you know, you gotta get vaccinated, whatever it was. And he was driving to the gig because he refused to fly at this point. So he drove his Corvette everywhere and he just tweaked and he was like, I'm fucking out you know.

And so we had a couple of gigs and we were just about to like cash it in and except for Mark had one pre-approved bass player this cat Jack Daly who is the guy that you'll see in Lenny Kravitz videos from the 90s he was the Lenny Kravitz bass player and he's a terrific amazing bass player and I called Aaron and I was like you you know, he was like, ah, what are we gonna do? And we just sort of decided like, oh, I said, why don't you call Jack Daly? So Aaron called Jack and he says,

you wanna play this gig? And Jack said, sure. And Jack played one gig with, actually the first gig was canceled, which was lucky, cause he had to learn like all our stuff. And, but then the second gig came and it was really very similar to our birth with Mark. You know, we sort of the three of us and weirdly we had been writing this record that's coming out in April.

Yeah, I'm going to play a cut from it soon. Yeah. And so we it was almost in the same. It was like the same bag as before. It's like we had all these songs like on the phone and we hadn't started working with Mark on them yet. And, uh, Jack has a recording studio in Asbury park and we ended up it and then the pandemic was kind of, you know, going strong at this point.

And we ended up that February just taking the money from the kitty and, and like making a record with Jack and took us 14 days. And we did a song a day and then you know and and I mean, it's a joy to work with Aaron Aaron is one of the best drummers I've ever worked with You know, he rarely uses a click track. He's and he's just amazing. He's got a Fat pocket and he's just you know, and Jack is Every much is the bass player of mark but kind of like a little bit opposed like he's like he's more melodic less funky and it was just the exact same thing it clicked we made this what we think is a great record and and then you know we just started working and then he never left so he's it's been

like three years and now he's the guy now well here's i so i pledge to you that uh soon we're gonna i want to i'm gonna play new spin doctors and I want to get some more info on what's coming out the new music that's happening for sure. So I feel like this it's mark who was kicked out of the band. No he wasn't kicked out of the band mark left he he just quit the band yeah he quit and for a while he was saying he I think he made noise that like we we we got we kicked him out out we never did he left and he said that. The spin I heard pun intended is that he was kicked out before being anti-vac. Yeah that's the story that he that he put forth we've never really disputed that

story much but I'm gonna dispute it right now it's not it's actually not what happened what happened was I think to save face he or less, he said that that's what happened. But really what happened was is that we wanted to keep working through the pandemic. And at the time you couldn't, you know, you had to have a, a lot of times you had to be vaccinated. You had to wear a mask sometimes if you were going to get on a plane, you did, and he wouldn't even fly actually at this point. So, you know, he left, he left he just left and he had approved Jack and Jack came in and you know Mark didn't really ever dispute it and we didn't talk for a while now we're talking again we all we all we're in we're in we're in touch you know and you know he was ahead of the game I know you

mentioned he might he might be a Donald Trump supporter is that what I heard oh yeah he's a Trump he's a Trump because I feel like he was ahead of the game to not fly I feel like under Trump it's better not to get in an airplane. Yeah, it seems that way today. That's for sure, right? So he's ahead of the, he knew what was coming as a Trumper. Yeah, you know, America's a funny place, you know?

It's full of like a lot of, a lot of opposing views, but somehow everybody's supposed to be an American. And so it's an interesting ball of wax. You, my friend, were on the cover of The Rolling Stone. Yes sir. January 1993. Yep. So like everything's happening. You know what I want to hear a bit more music from that album. So Pocket Full of Kryptonite. Big fucking album for you guys. Just a little more. As they say in New Jersey it was fucking huge. It was huge. There you go. Here's the other one.

Oh, I got a good story for this one. So you hear those double stops on the guitar, that sort of Chuck Berry riff thing? That was a test take, because if you're in a trio, you can only play one guitar. So a lot of these solos, I hadn't played, I didn't have them until we started making recordings. So I was the coffee guy at a studio called RPM on 12th Street in Manhattan.

And when we had a chance to, we were making this record after the deal, we got the deal and so forth. We ended up doing the overdubs at RPM because it was a cool place and I knew Bob Mason. And so anyhow, I walked in the one day and we were doing this song and we had we had the beds done but I needed to put the other guitar part on and I sort of I didn't have a great idea what I was gonna do on Little Miss and there was a Marshall in the corner and I looked at it and I was like well that looks cool and we'll plug it into that. And basically I was just getting a sound on the Marshall amplifier, we were talking about Kurt Schafter

and I was kinda thinking what would Kurt do? And that intro there that's what I was thinking. You want to hear it again? Here, let me play it again. Let me show some credit to my friend. Right, this is how it sounds. The underappreciated Kurt Schafter. You know, it's kind of, you know, it's kind of, you know, sort of trying to give it a little Kurt Swagger. I think I hit it.

We might have to give Kurt a co-writing credit. Be careful. Well, you know what? Actually, he should have got a co-writing credit on some of that Atlanta Miles stuff. You should be careful what you say. Oh, you know, Atlanta Miles, fun fact, He should have got a co-writing credit on some of that Atlanta miles stuff. You should be careful what you say. Oh You know Atlanta miles fun fact is actually an Atlanta Biles. Yeah, okay, you know these facts I can't tell you anything. No, you can just you can't tell me that

Yeah, little miss can't be wrong man. So things are happening for you. You're on the cover of the Rolling Stone You're playing Woodstock in 94. Yeah, that's right. What's that like? I can only you know this is this must be how Blair Packham felt when Last of the Red Hot Fools was taken off. Yeah probably. Wow so you know I mean that was a big year for us 93. It was a it was a fucking huge year. 92-93 was was incredible and we were really big in England too. We played we played second last at Glastonbury that year and and there was like, you know, 80,000 people there. We did a huge tour with

Soul Asylum and was it the Jin's or the Screamin' Trees? I can't even remember and Maybe both. Yeah, maybe both. And so yeah, we got on that Woodstock gig and the thing was that at that time So yeah, we got on that Woodstock gig. And the thing was that at that time, you know, that the egos were kind of going, it was, there was a lot of ego. And so it was, you know, I actually- Ego, for a minute I thought the egos,

egos hell freezes over. No, no, it's like, so after that year, 94, I quit. I left the band for seven years right after that. Yeah, I mean, that's one of my obvious questions. It's like you abruptly leave and you're like, you were burnt out, what happened? Chris and I just didn't get along. We didn't see eye to eye at that point.

And I just thought he was, his ego was going nuts and I just couldn't handle it. And fortunately for me, Aaron is like a rock and he never, he never moved. He just stayed, Chris stayed. Then he lost his voice a couple of times. They had like a couple of different formations I mean Ivan Neville was in the band for a minute and

eventually, you know eventually was 2000 was pretty much seven years to the day and And You know that there was no more hits after our big record we had a we had a couple of sort of semi hits with the second record, but really it's the three of us. And it's just the way it is. And so in 2000, no not 2000, what year was it? 2001. Yeah, it was 2001. So in 2001, a club that we helped to make a huge club with the scene was this club called the Wetlands Preserve in Lower Manhattan. And really a lot of the the re-hippies were there like I'd you know the Dead wasn't super popular back then but there was like this kind of core Dead following around that area and even though Nightingale was

sort of a punked out club, it all fed into this other scene and the kids that were in Manhattan. And anyways, long story short, it was the beginning of the jam band as we know it now. And so Wetlands was huge. And it was, it spawned a lot of things and it was a great club and they got squeezed out by condos. Like I have a personal theory that the singer-songwriter was actually born from

gentrification the second time because there's no clubs left that you can make any noise in you know what I mean yeah kind of and so anyways they were they were closing and and so they they phone they put us back together they they phoned the management office and they said, is there any way that we can get the original four guys back together again? And so the management office called me and them. And we all said the same thing.

I was like, well, I'll do it if they'll do it. And they were like, well, we'll do it if he'll do it. And so, and we had the same experience again. There was our monitor guy, God rest his soul, Sean Giblin, who passed away from brain cancer about 15 years ago. He was there doing the soundboard. We met at SIR or some other place in New York.

And it was exactly the same thing that happened as the story I just told you. We played like about a half a song and stopped. And Giblin goes like, holy fuck or something like that. And it was just like, and we were back together again. And I've been in the band now since like, three times as long as I was in the first place. Yeah, since 2001.

Yeah, so we made two or three records then, but there's various stories. This one didn't come out because the label folded. The next one was a blues record and you know, and it was like, so really it's not till this one that, so it's really, which we're going to get to. Yeah. And then we'll find out exactly like the current status of spin doctors and what's going on here. But to be specific though,

cause the way you quit is kind of interesting cause it's you're like, you literally walk off stage. Oh yeah, I absolutely am like that. Yeah. So like in the middle, you're in Berkeley, I guess, and you're on stage. Like what happened? You have a moment of like, like, fuck it, I'm out. Yeah. And you just walked off. It was in the middle of the set? No, it was the end. I mean, it was like, Chris did this thing where he, he like, you know, I was probably being a musical asshole at the time. You know, you always think you're right, but like you get older and you realize everybody's wrong. And so it's like, he did something, he passed by me

and he put his hand across my face in this weird way and the whole thing just fell apart in my head. And I was like, fuck this guy, fuck this shit. And backstage went back down and we had this, we just, we just had this fight and uh, and I was like, I'm out of here. I left, I went back to the hotel and then I just didn't answer the door. Wow. They, and they eventually they left and I called my old man and I says, uh, I quit the van. Oh my God. He was like, you what? I was like, I quit the van. Now you're talking about a guy who's been in music his whole life. He's like, you what? I was like, I quit the band. Now you're talking

about a guy who's been in music his whole life. He's like, you know, he was super proud of me too. And he was just like, what the fuck are you talking about? You quit the band. I said, I quit. I'm out. And he was like, okay, listen, you got to get on a plane and where's the next gig? And I was like, it's the, it was at the gorge in, um, which is an amazing venue. And, uh, and, uh and uh and he's like you gotta get on a plane you gotta go there you gotta offer to play because they'll sue you and whether whether that was corrected on i'm not really sure because he said you might be violating a road contract or something like that and as you've already pointed out he was you know he knew contracts

right so i followed my old man's advice and my girlfriend and I went up to the gorge and they were sound checking with Kenny who's an old friend of Aaron's he played guitar. Black Rose. No no no what I am Edie Prakal. Aaron grew up with all those guys. So Kenny was playing guitar and I was like it doesn't sound any good I thought to myself whatever and they saw me there and there was this little moment, there was this like circle and they came out and I had sunglasses on, they were like, what are you doing here?

And I was like, you came to play and they were like, yeah, you can't play, and I was like, oh fine, fuck you guys, and you know, so I had offered, I figured my, I filled my old man's like requirement. And so then I fucked off for seven years Seven years so in that seven year period though, you're back in Toronto. No, I tried to move to San Francisco for a while You know, I did some some sessioning and I started another group and you know stuff like that

I played I played on Natalie merchants record jealousy or Tiger Lily and Some other stuff I played in a Merchant's record, Jealousy, or Tiger Lily, and some other stuff. I played in a cool jazz band with Jack Bruce and Charles Neville and a bunch of other notable people. And I worked on a record, a couple of records with the, or on a record with Eddie Kramer, Electric Lady. I met those guys. So he did this record, the symphonic works

of Jimi Hendrix, I think in 96 or something like that. So I was in there, this sort of thing was just happening to me because I was the guy that quit the spin doctors. I was living in New York, so all these things were just kind of coming my way. And I was just, I don't know what I was thinking. I'm really not that smart when I think about it because I could have done a lot better

But but any case I was having a great time And I was a little bit post-traumatic stress because it's weird quitting it a band like that you started the band I did that started the band so you started and this is a lot of bands get started, but very few bands Have a hit multiple hits but a hit as big as two princes. Yeah. Yeah, I know it's huge it's like, you know, you know SNL and know it's huge. It's like, you know, SNL and all that anyways. And I was like, you know, and it was just bizarre. So I was at the Electric Lady thing, Eddie called me up

and he wanted me to play on two tracks on this record that he was doing with all sorts of notable musicians on it. And I'm like, sure. And so it was amazing because we did Burning the Midnight Lamp and Noel Redding was the bass player and we did In From the Storm and Billy Cox was the bass player and I enlisted my friend. One of the cool things that happened when I quit the Spin Doctors is that you might've heard of this fella, David Aberzees. He was the guy that got fired from Pearl Jam at the same time. We were on the same label and so what did I do? The very first thing I did after offering to play was I phoned Dave and I was like, yo man you don't know me but we're

label mates and I just quit my band and you just got fired. What's up? And he was like, come on over. So I went to Seattle, rented a LTD and went to his house for about a month. Is he the guy, um, what's the song about, uh, got a gun. Fact that got to that's okay, man. Cause I love God glorified. Glorified G glorified G. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that might be, that song might be about. It may be. Yeah, I wouldn't know, but I mean, he's-

I feel like I've read that one, like some Five Horizons. Yeah, it probably is. He had a lot of, there was a lot of, you know, weirdness there, like he really got- It's a song actually. I love Pro Jam. I mean, and it's on verses.

Yeah, and he's the drummer on verses. Yeah, yeah. So I think that song is about him. Yeah, it may well be in project It's funny. That's a band. That's a hundred percent intact Excluding drummers and they're yeah the drummers now that I'm at Cameron for a long time, but they went through a bunch of drummers Yeah, that guy and that's right. Jack was cool, too He was but Dave's my favorite Dave was really the guy the live guy

He's not on ten that I think that's my is it Matt Chamberlain I think it might be. Yeah. But another Dallas drummer actually. Great drummers from Dallas and Dave is from Dallas. Great. And so Dave and Aaron kind of know each other because they're both from Dallas. Anyways, Dave and I were fast friends and I spent some time with him and we both loved Weed and it was great. And he told me all sorts of stories.

I'm shocked to find out spin doctors like weed. This is a mind blow to me. We were on the cover of high times. I'm surprised you're not on the cover of high times every fucking issue. Yeah, like when I think of like these jam bands, we love in jam bands, I got spin doctors on the top of the list for sure.

Chris and I used to be, we were weed mates, me and Chris, I remember like we just, we'd get high before like these ridiculous gigs, I don't know how we did it. Is it boring now that it's legal? Like what's part of it? No, it's the voice of the people maybe, come on, especially in Canada. I mean, shit, I have to remind myself, but when I go up to Quebec with my girlfriend for like in December usually once a year and it's my special favorite pleasure is just like getting a stinky bag of weed put in my top pocket and like walking through security. I love it It's just like this is great. Finally do anything to me man amazing exactly. I just little detour. Okay I got to finish the the Aberzee story because so

So anyway, so I'm at electric lady Eddie called me about this gig and he was telling me what I've got the bass players like this and I said he's the drummer and he didn't know it at that point and I said I got the guy so I called Dave and Dave came and did it so it was really great it was like Dave me, me, Billy Cox, and then Dave, me and Noel on this other song. And it was, listen for a guitar player. It's like psychic debt. I'm like recording with Eddie Kramer in Electric Lady doing Hendrix songs. And I mean, how cool is that? And so Noel walks in

and who walks in with Noel? Corky Lang. That's when I met Corky and we were like bull terriers together like he's like, you do that too, you do that too, you do that too. They were running around in circles and then we found out we were both like Canadian somehow, right? So he's like, he's from Montreal and you know, I grew up in Toronto.

So that was it. Like as soon as we, and then we made the band with Noel. Then we had a trio, me and him and Noel cork and we did we we made we made like one recording or two recordings and We went to Ireland and we stayed at Noel's house for a couple weeks And I mean there's just stories and stories and stories and great relationship of that with him So that's where I was going with that and that's how I made friends with that's that's how I made friends with Dave, too And when I brought him on that gig, it sort of just solidified our you know our brotherhood.

I love verses just gonna throw it out into me tears love it and I too I have a couple of younger kids and I'm I always break into an elderly woman behind the counter in a small town just one of those like six so you can sing it to your kid. That's cool man. That's my the longest title in the Pearl Jam catalog Okay so a couple of quick observations just before I forget to spin them into the mic and then I'm gonna give you a couple of Gifts and then I'm gonna play a little bit of your solo thing and then I want to talk about what's going on with the New stuff here. So that's in that order. If I go off on tangents, that's okay, too. But the observations are one is

You got great pipes. So now I've been listening from about an hour in these headphones. How do you how do I get pipes like that? Just work at it you know it's like anything else you just have to like I'm not I didn't grow up singing I grew up with stringed instruments all around me none of my family sing. But you grew up smoking. Yeah so I've got that. A note to self, start smoking. Start smoking. And stop before you're 70 because otherwise it's sounding like my grandmother she didn't have a voice. You gotta be careful. She lived in 98. She did. That's true. Youngest of 12. Okay. Good old days. Before birth control pills. Yes, you have to have 12 so at least five survive

Right literally. I mean numbers game. Yeah, exactly. Oh geez. Okay, and I hear they might get back to those days under Trump Yeah, it could easily happen. I mean, I don't know what the hell's going on. I think the new rule I think now that's a country now where they'll take care of the wealthy and then the 99% Are just fend for yourself like fuck you it may it may well be it's so weird. I can't even really speculate. I mean I I you know, I just don't even know what to say. I I've I voted I You know, I I have you voted in New York I did which is kind of you don't really need to because it's a blue city. But you know, I mean, it's extremely disappointing to me personally, and I know there's a lot

of people that don't agree with that. But you know, fuck it, that's how I feel. I just think it's, you know, I just, I really believe in, like I told you, my grandmother was the chairman of Planned Parenthood. I mean, how the fuck can I not right you know it's just right there yeah I can't I can't I cannot freaking condone that shit well what gets me is we're on like day nine or something I don't know like right and this is what what's it gonna look like in six months two years years? Like this is a dictatorship.

It is. It's an authoritarian regime and it's like, he's hopefully he's going to overplay his hand. That's the only thing. Who is going to stop them? Is a Republican party going to stand up and say, this is a violation of our constitution? They're not doing it. I don't know where the checks and balances on him. He's got the Supreme court. He's got the house. He's got so fucked up

You know, you know what Ginsburg should have should have stepped down. She should have gone She should she was she should have stepped down and and then at least there'd be another judge You know, right. Hey, can we take five so I can take a leak go take five as y'all do my sponsor mentions Well, yeah, so the washroom there don't hit your head though I've warned you here. Then you come back for the wrap up here. I am going to give a, by the way, my, my last point was, and I'll revisit this when he gets back from taking a leak here,

but I born to be a rock star. I'm listening to this story in the headphones now. And it seems to me like Eric Shankman was born to be a rock star. There was no other calling for this guy. He can tell me he was going to be an anthropologist or whatever this bullshit is, but he was going to be a rock star. And maybe he wasn't going to have a top 40 US Billboard 100 hit, but he was going to be a rock star. And we'll talk later about how he's playing every Wednesday night at the Grossman's Tavern. So you can hear him on Wednesday night at Grossman's Tavern. We'll talk about all that.

But I'm going to give him a lasagna from Palma Pasta and fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. So thank you to Palma Pasta. Thank you to GLB. Thank you to Ridley Funeral Home. I got a measuring tape for Eric right here. Latest, newest, freshest sponsor is a gentleman named Nick Ienies from Fusion Corp Developments and he's got a great podcast called Building Toronto Skyline. He also has a new book called Battle of the Skyscrapers and soon I'm gonna chat with him about all of the above and basically he's a I've come to know this guy and this guy just wants to help fuel the real talk on Toronto Mike so this is a sweetheart everybody and of course there's recycle my electronics

dot CA if anyone out there has old electronics old cables Don't throw it in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill go to recycle my electronics dot see a Put in your postal code watch your head. Mr. Shankman and You can find out where to drop it off to be properly recycled. So thank you Recycle my electronics dot see a you might have missed it Eric, but I just gave you a large lasagna from Palma pasta I love it. Do you enjoy lasagna my friend? I do absolutely in my freezer. Don't leave with it. That's an empty box We'll fill it up and you're going to you mentioned you're gonna see Stan Stan So yeah, she is Stan Myzik plays bass on Wednesdays with me at Grossman's He's a terrific bass player played with everybody that you I think he's played with Kim Mitchell

I think he used to play he's played with Healy played with Sass Jordan. I mean, it's just a who's who of what's what I bike Parklawn Cemetery speaking of really funeral home. I do a bike ride to Parklawn Cemetery. I did it last week and Jeff Healy's buried there. Yeah, that right. The little park. Yeah that's right. Yeah he lived near there and there's a park. Yeah there's a park name for Jeff Healy on the other side of Queensway. That's right. I have been to that park. What it... let me just say, you know, Jeff was just such a fantastic, amazing Canadian guitar player. One of the very best, I would put Jeff Healy and,

I'd put him right at the top of the list, actually. I gotta say. Jeff Rocks. I was a big fan, big fan. We're doing, I think there's a gig on March 6th. I'm not really hardly involved in it. I wanna go sit in. I think Stan's playing bass, but there's a, I think it's like the, I don't know, it's a Healy,

let me see if I can find my phone. You find that, because I actually wanna play a little song that's not Spin Doctors by the Eric Schenckman jam and I guess the point was that Stan the man as I now call him is getting this Great Lakes beer you got here and he's going to be very excited because he loves his Great Lakes. Exactly. Okay. I promised it to him.

He lives around the corner from here. Okay. Well he knows this is the home of GLB, South Etobicoke. So here's a song, Not Spin Doctors. Oh yeah. That's it. Woo! Who shot John at the Mardi Gras? That's it. Woo!

I was up on the street. I thought I saw him fall. You know your sound of it life. Oh, he's a very good friend. David Lee Roth. Oh, thanks. Yeah, David Lee Roth with a little pitch. Well, I'm gonna raise a roof and party for heaven on a one

time anyhow. Oh! Ooh. Ha, ha, ha. Yeah, it's my little Zydeco thing, man. Took me about 20 years to write that song. Who shot John? Yeah. It's an old expression. A friend of mine used to say that.

Don't give me that, who shot John. I've never heard that expression. I just thought maybe, are we talking John Lennon? I know, it sounds like that. That's usually the question you've got to but actually it's just like I think it means bullshit. I think it's like ah they're gonna give me the whole who shot John you know it's like yeah. I'm gonna add it to my lexicon. Yeah do it. I like that. I'm gonna start dropping it in who shot John I like it. Yeah. So how long you been playing Grossman's Tavern every

Wednesday? Seven years which is crazy. Well you know who's related to Grossman's Tavern every Wednesday. In seven years, which is crazy. Well you know who's related to Grossman? You know, uh... Eric Alper. Eric fucking Alper. Yeah, that's right. I know him, yeah. Yeah, he's like the nephew, I think, or something. Grandson, maybe?

Yeah, maybe grandson. Uh-huh. He told me once and I've forgotten. Yeah, he told me, well he's been down here and we talked about how he, like his grandfather was Grossman or something like that. Yeah, and they sold the place to the Louies in 75. And that's a good story too. I mean, God, you know, Grossman's is such a cool place.

It reminds me of the club I mentioned before, Nightingale Bar. And I don't know how the hell I got that gig, but I ended up with it. And then now, it's funny. I'm there most Wednesdays, you know. Confirmed, by the way, it's Eric Alper's grandfather. Oh, it is, yeah. He started Grossman. He's Grossman from Grossman's Tavern, yeah. Okay, you know, so Eric Alper and you are buddies, and he can help you with like PR and shit like that, right?

Yeah, he did some of that for me for a minute. He's like the PR guy around town. And I'm just looking for the Heelys thing. I can find it right here. I love that album with See the Light and Confidence Man. Was it called See the Light? Maybe it was called See the Light. It may be. But just loved it. Loved it. This is a really fun album to make. I co-produced this record with my buddy Sean Kellerman, who's another terrific Ontario,

the best blues guitar player I know in Ontario. Back from Lucky Peterson? Yes. Lucky's guy. And then Lucky died, unfortunately. That's not too lucky. Not too lucky. Yeah.

He became unlucky Peterson. Started Lucky. He had to build the funeral home. My was lucky. Not too lucky. Yeah. He became unlucky Peterson. Started lucky. My goodness gracious. Everybody gets unlucky sooner or later bro. I'm gonna turn. Well it happens to the best of us. It does you know. When is it gonna happen to Donald J Trump? Any idea? I don't know man. I think he might be like there's a song on that record about him too. I think he might I don't know I keep thinking like you know he's he's it's too lucky. It doesn't happen. I don't know, I keep thinking like, you know, he's, he's, it's too lucky. It doesn't happen. I don't know. He's got some kind of a thing going on here. I found it. A deal with the devil?

Yeah. I didn't really want to say that out loud. Robert Johnson? Yeah. I think he may even is the devil. Well, he's almost red. He's orange. Yeah. Yeah, he is. That's right. I don don't know but I've heard tell if you want to get to heaven don't waste your time in hell That's though. That's the lyric that just went by So don't have some fun people Any more solo material in your future here? Yeah, I'm in the middle of actually mixing a bunch of stuff

from From this band and I'm gonna put it out soon it'll be on Apple Tunes soon before before the summer anyways it's gonna be called Wednesdays and it's gonna by the action sound band that's that's Wednesdays because that's when you play close to this tower and that's yeah I'm pretty swift that's another band that I named the action sound band that's that's it that's pretty cool and and it's named after a verb and a noun you got to go simple let's yeah well listen you're the master of that now let's talk about That's pretty cool. And it's named after a verb and a noun. You gotta go simple.

Let's, yeah, well listen, you're the master of that now. Let's talk about Spin Doctors in 2025, okay? Please. Maybe, yeah, let me play this jam right here. Oh, do it. Yeah, there we go, now you're talking. Gorilla I can tell the Bible from a bottle of rye I can tell the moat from the mud in your eye A hawk from a headstall, a bamboo from a willow

Gorilla Gorilla, gorilla I know tragedy from thriller I know emptiness from filler I know bullshit when I smell rat I know it's not vanilla Marauding like a tiller Munching leaves like a caterpillar You want King Kong but you got Godzilla I might be a monkey but you might be a killer I might be human but you're still a gorilla You're still a gorilla You're still a gorilla we need that because people think you know it's hard to have a song like Two Princes because it got overplayed like a motherfucker. I was gonna ask like so yeah we're gonna get back to the new

stuff but Pocket Full of Kryptonite big album with a couple of big hits on it including Two Princes which is still being played on every rock station in the in the world every day. Like, are you trying to write another Two Princes with follow-up albums? No, that's the kiss of death. I mean, you know, I think for a while, like, we all tried to do that because, you know. Because your accountants told you to. Yeah, it's more like the record company.

They kind of look at you and they go, you know, you're a failure unless you do that again and it's weird because when you try especially us when we tried to do that it was sort of impossible or it just sounds too we sound like we're trying too hard in one way or another and what's cool about this record it's called Faceful a Cake it's coming out on April 11th and what's cool about it is that it's not trying hard at all we made it in 13 days and it's really very similar to kryptonite in the sense that you know rock and roll needs to be You know kind of It doesn't need to try too hard. I think people like listening to

Shit, that's you know falling out of your head People like listening to I'm you're preaching to the choir except radio in 2025 doesn't seem interested in playing new rock does it? No well radio in 2025 is like it's a non descriptive like it's a it's a I don't even know what that means is what I'm trying to say so we don't know what it means either but what we do do know is that when we play a show, when we've been playing these songs for about, because we made this record about a year and a half, two years ago, right? It's just been sitting there.

Because we had to do a bunch of, we had this terrible deal with Sony for 20 years and we've been trying to get out of it. We finally got out of it because Capitol's putting out this record. There's a lot of acts from the 90s that fell into this category where, you know, you're in a contract, and if you haven't fulfilled the contract, there's language that you have to satisfy

to fulfill the contract. And of course, business people love to, you know, put handcuffs on you if they can. And so, the problem is the industry changed. So like, you know, if youuffs on you if they can. And so the problem is the industry changed. So like, you know, if you're looking at a contract from the nineties that says you need to have, you need to make a, if you want to get out of our contract, you need to make another record with another major label.

Well, that's fine to say in 1990 or 1995, but the fact is there's like two major labels now and one of them Sony, you know. Interesting fact, when we signed that deal we signed with CBS and it became Sony after that and CBS was actually an old cool record label and so yeah so anyway so Capitals putting out this record so we finally were able to we sort of held we held on to this record and tried to you know maneuver our way into putting it out on some other label

and we finally were able to do it. I have a note from Mark Weisblatt who has been on this program many times. And Mark Weisblatt says he learned about your new album and he included it in a pop culture roundup feature called Judar. Okay, this is Mark's word. Judar, it's in a quarterly magazine

published by the Canadian Jewish News. I've heard of that. Which is coming out in April. Yeah. So he points out here, fun fact I suppose, like the Ramones, all original Spin Doctor members are Jewish. That's correct, except for Mark who's-

Yeah, but he's gone now. Yes, that's correct. And Jack is a nice Irish Italian guy who's been playing with Jews for years, you know, he's in Lenny Kravitz's band. And I think Craig's Jewish too, the guitar player. And so is George actually, he's from Winnipeg, the keyboard player.

It's true, it's true, yeah. And that gets you in this feature called Judar. Judar, that's right, you know? Some people got Gator, we got Judar. Yeah, and no one's, they don't post any of my shit in Judar, I feel like I'm missing out here. Yeah, it's weird, like I come from a family that was, you know, it's funny being Jewish is a weird thing for me

because I come from, you know, like my grandpa was, grew up, my great-grandmother, his mother, my mother's father's mother was a seamstress in Long Island. And Marvin, my grandfather, he wrote an essay and got into Harvard Law School and then went to Harvard and became a tax lawyer. But the thing is, is that, that you know that whatever the name was it got reassigned when we came through Ellis Island we became Lions. Lions

sounds like you know it sounds like you're from England. Yeah British yeah. My grandfather became a a name partner in the firm that he was in which he would never ever have done had he been whatever the other name was. And, you know, so we call that like, you know, Christmas tree Jews, you know, like we're like, there's a Christmas tree and there's a Christmas party. But if you go into the dining room, there's like this menorah behind the table. I didn't even know what that was. Like, I mean, I just didn't, I don't have any Jewish, like, like history in my family. Like it was just kind of like buried. And I didn't know anything about it because,

and you can understand why. I mean, I just found out recently that in the 1600s, they pretty much exterminated all of the Ashkenazi Jews in Eastern Europe and left, there was like 12 women left. So we're all related. So in a weird, weird, crazy fucking world, me and Aaron and Chris were probably, we're basically cousins.

And so, you know, I said we all have the same pocket. Well, there you go. It's a pocket full of kryptonite, man. Pocket full of krypton and so you know I said we all have the same pocket well there you go it's pocketful of kryptonite pocketful of kryptonite you know sewed out of two onion sacks you know you know it's like it's crazy it's a crazy world man well I just yesterday my guest on this program was a Toronto City councillor named Brad Bradford mm-hmm and I have a client and friend named Dana Levinson who's been very vocal about Mayor Chao, because she tells me anti-Semitism is being tolerated in this city and her kids, her family and herself,

they're actually feeling unsafe in their Toronto neighborhood. And then of course I have a counselor on, so we talked about some, is Toronto doing enough to make our Jewish citizens feel safe? And this came up, have you noticed this uptick in anti-Semitism? No, I'm pretty much immune to, like, I have a tough skin and I don't, you know, I don't, I don't know what it is. I think it's the story I just told you. It's like my family

and my dad's family is funny too because half of his family is Jewish like my son recently did the DNA thing and his mother's English from England and My kid's name is Wiley and he called me up one day and he goes, oh I did the DNA thing I said, oh, yeah, that's cool. I've never done that It's like I don't want to get my fortune ready either and he goes that Eastern European I did the DNA thing. And I said, oh, yeah, that's cool. I've never done that. It's like, I don't want to get my fortune ready either. And he goes, that Eastern European, that's all you, right? I was like, yeah, that's all me. It's all you, man.

You know what? I always think, oh, if I ever did one of those DNA things, they'll find out like my brother's a serial killer or something like that. Yeah, or you say you don't want to do it. They're like, oh, you know, somebody really close to you is a serial killer. And now we have your DNA in our database. I'm like, you can't have it. I'm like that. They're like, oh, you know, somebody really close to you is a serial killer and now we have your DNA in our database. I'm like, you can't have it.

I'm like that too, I'm like paranoid like that. But it's funny though because Peter's mother, my other grandmother, is actually, they're English Dutch and they've been in the United States since like, you know, freaking 1600 or whatever it was. They came over very early so I have this weird split in the family where, you know, part of my family is from like South Carolina and Virginia. And, you know, and it's just odd.

So even going down and visiting then in the old days, it was sort of like, my Jewishness was like, you know, it's becoming more pronounced as I get older. Like I just didn't really ever, I guess I don't know what it is. I was insulated from like professing it, you know, at a young age and I didn't know why. Maybe that's not a good thing, maybe it is,

but now that I'm getting older, I'm like, I identify, man, I'm like, I'm proud of it. No, you should be proud of it. I'm proud of who I am, I'm proud of where I come from. And I don't like the, you know, anti I come from and I don't like the you know antisemitism I don't like any of that stuff, but I Kind of believe that you know I can I sort of always believe that I can take care of myself and if somebody wants to get in my face and

Really push my buttons like on that stuff I will I will talk back and I'll say whatever comes right out of my mouth like I like I quit the band that time You know, it's just like he just walked off stage in Berkeley. Yeah, so fuck this. That's a very punk rock It's my favorite colloquialism goes like this. Fuck that shit, man Fuck that shit killed John Okay, Eric. This was amazing man. How was this for you? I love this chat. Yeah me too, man I'm having a great time. Yeah, it's great. You've gone over so much stuff. It's great. And you've gone over so much stuff. It's incredible. You have a knack, my friend.

My Sharona, the knack. Listen- That's a weird lyric. Oh, pretty one. Yeah, do a dive into that lyric. That's funny. We just realized the other day that he just runs the major scale right down. Yeah, yeah, we were talking because Chris, it's funny, like he did that, it's the same thing as that guitar solo I told you about, it's like he never did that rap until we recorded the song and like a bunch of stuff just happened when we recorded the song and then of course

it gets on the radio, like the guitar solo for example, it's like, and then you get proud of it and so you play it, you know, because they want to hear it. Let me add this, the thing I was gonna say about Gorilla and the new record is the way that, so we were playing, we've been playing those songs for a couple of years because we were trying to get this deal together so that we could get out of bed with Sony, which we finally did, thank fucking God.

And so, so you're playing, and we vary our set list. We will always play probably Two Princes Last and Little Miss Somewhere in the Middle, and there's a couple other songs. But we are very adventurous, and we play a lot of our catalog within, and we actually, we mix it up a lot. So Gorilla, as soon as mix it up a lot. So gorilla

as soon as it's very similar to two princes because we'll put it before two princes and you can see You can see the the reaction and it works and so I'm I was just gonna say, you know there once when you have a you know, when you got a tiger by the tail you know it and and people like they react. In the history of your time with the Spin Doctors, have you ever performed a concert and not played Two Princes? Yes. But it's not a good idea.

Was there a riot afterwards? It's just not a great idea. It's a terrible idea. Well, you know, we never played it on TV. We did many, many TV performances and we always refused to play two princes on it But why did you refuse to play the biggest hit of your career? It has to do with the punk rock ethic I think it's just like somewhere deep down like, you know We grew up here in the city. I mean I did anyways and we were always kind of punk punk rock in my soul

you know, like I I just There's something about when they say you got to you gonna and and it's not always a good idea so you do live and learn but that's my explanation okay because that's an asshole move okay I'm I bought a ticket I'm there to see spin doctors and I don't hear two princes I'm gonna fuck shit up yeah well we're never gonna do that again because what happens is after a while you realize that You know the thing about the thing about music like that's in a zeitgeist is that it's not really yours anymore It really isn't it's like I you know people expect to hear it because they relate to some part of their life

With it, you know, here's a good name drop. I used to work with a singer called Phoebe Snow and Phoebe hired me initially because one of our songs, it wasn't Two Princes but it was a different one, I can't remember, maybe it was Jimmy Olsen Blues or something, but it got her out of a rough patch in her life. And you know, these kind of stories they come up over and over again and you realize these songs aren't really yours. Once they're like in people's heads, they're in their lives, they, you know, they, they, they, it key, it's poetic. You know, it reminds them of the sights and the smells and the experiences of some other thing. And so, you know, if you're just going to think, well, we're not going to play that song because, I don't want to play that song again.

It's not really, it's not really a very fucking smart move. You really want to give the people what they want. But you also get, you got to, you want to give the people what they want, but you also Get you got it. You got to give the band what he it wants to the bands a bit of an entity You know what I mean? Like we're going we're doing a bunch of dates this summer with the gin blossoms and blues traveler we're doing a triple bill back with popper across the across the country across America and Sort of like, you know You know, that's the thing. It's like, what's the word I'm looking for?

It wakes people's, they remember some aspect of their life back then and it's nostalgic and maybe it's a happier time for them. Maybe it's a heavy memory or maybe it just makes you feel good, like I feel like that when I hear You know, I mean I say that about music all the time on the show. It's a time machine man It's a time machine. Nothing takes you back. It's like music, you know, like you hear some Elton John song like and you're just like, you know You know your heart melts and you're just like in your your ten. All right now that I've warmed you up

How lucrative was to princes for your've warmed you up, how lucrative was Two Princes for your bank account? Oh dude I told you already it's my favorite song. It's my special favorite song. It's Oliver's special favorite song. Is it the gift that keeps on giving? Like is it still being licensed for... If you guys own it, like if Netflix show wants to use it so we all know it's 1993 or whatever because there's the easiest way to tell people you're in the early 90s is throw on two prints. That's what I'm talking about exactly. Yeah, it's like not ours anymore.

Yeah, but yes, of course they do. We didn't sign away 100% of our publishing to anybody ever. Good for you, man. I root for your success. The new album comes out in April? April 11th, I think. We're doing a record release at the Brooklyn Bowl. And then we're going to be playing it around America.

Anyways, we'll get up here too, but it's hard. Let me know when you get up here. I will. Blair Packham and I will go together. You'll be my guest. Are you kidding? Absolutely. You're a welcome addition to the TMU, the Toronto Mike Universe.

And thanks for pointing out my Canadian-ness, by the way, because it's true. It's like, you know, sort of unsung up here. the people just don't know. Well now the world knows a founding member of the Spin Doctors is one of ours and he's at Grossman's Tavern every Wednesday. Thanks for doing this buddy. Yeah definitely call first in case I'm on tour with the Spin Doctors. And don't call Eric Alberg, call the tavern directly. Yeah. Ask for Christine or Tony. Don't call Eric. And that brings us to the end of our 1,621st show.

My lucky number. Get a tattoo, man. 621. It's a commemorate. Go to torontomic.com for all your Toronto Mic needs. I'm on bluesky at torontomicike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. I'm on blue sky at torontomike.com there and much love of course to all who made this possible. That is Great Lakes Brewery. Nick the Stick is going to get his GLB. Palma Pasta. Don't leave without your lasagna, Eric. Wouldn't think of it.

Recyclemyelectronics.ca, Building Toronto's Skyline. I actually got a call during this episode from Nick Aini's. We're recording tomorrow morning, Building Toronto's Skyline. And of course Ridley Funeral Home. Just yesterday, Brad Jones was here and we recorded a fresh episode of Life's Undertaking, available wherever you get your podcasts. See you all tomorrow when Bob Wagner

makes his Toronto Mic debut. And don't forget Ontario Place was really cool I saw Muddy Waters there. The Forum. Speaking of spoons yeah I saw Chalk Circle there in 85 and finally got Chris Tate in the basement just so I could talk about that. I have a woman in the schedule coming up, Ali Weinstein I think is her name but she made a movie, like a love letter movie to Ontario Place so we can have a little nostalgia. I bike by it all the time, man. It looks like a bomb went off. No, it's such a tragedy. It was an amazing place, but you try to tell the kids that today and they won't believe you. Music So Music