Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Fact-Checking Randy Bachman: Toronto Mike'd #1392

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

In this 1392nd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with The Guess Who expert Robert Lawson about Randy Bachman's Toronto Mike'd debut. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Electronic Products Recycling Association, Raymond James Canada and Moneris. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

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who want to remain knowledgeable, informed, and focused on long-term success. Season 5 of Yes, We Are Open, an award-winning podcast from Moneris, hosted by FOTM El Gre grego and ridley funeral home pillars of the community since 1921 today returning to toronto miked is robert lawson welcome back robert hey mike good to see you again good to see. I'm going to let people know if they want your first visit to the TMDS studio. You drop by in October 2022, and it was episode 1139.

And here's the description I wrote at the time. 1139th episode of Toronto Mic'd. Mike chats with the author of Wheatfield Empire, The Listener's Guide to the Guess Who? And we talked, that's you, you wrote that book, and we talked about all things the Guess Who?

For like an hour and 44 minutes. To me, it was the definitive Guess Who? episode of Toronto Mic'd, and you were our tour guide yeah that was a good chat i remember having uh we had a lot of fun with that we listened to uh a lot of music and uh really got deep into the guess who which is one of my favorite topics you are the uh the the i would consider you the expert the subject matter expert in this country on the guess who now i was at the horseshoe Tavern last night to see the Trans-Canada Highwaymen.

And one of their covers that they now do live, and they have an album and everything, is Undone. And Stephen Page singing Undone at the Horseshoe, I didn't know I needed that in my life, but I'm glad I had it. It was amazing. Yeah, I've heard the album quite a bit. We played it at my shop, and it's a lot of fun. Of course, if you haven't seen it, the album cover replicates an old K-Tel album from the 70s. I grew up with those. And yeah, they just do all these great 70s rock tunes, and I was really glad to see, I guess, Who tune on there.

Absolutely. Now, you just mentioned your shop. Now, here's one of my regrets from episode 1139. They say, don't have regrets. Well, I have many regrets, okay, Robert? I believe the opposite. We should have many regrets. Okay. I was so excited to talk to you about the

Guess Who and just a little teaser. We're going to be talking quite a bit more about the Guess Who today, just a little teaser, we're going to be talking quite a bit more about the Guess Who today. But like, I never really clicked in that you had another job. Like to me, your job is to be the author of Wheatfield Empire, The Listener's Guide to the Guess Who? And that's like Robert Lawson's life is revolving around the Guess Who? But you have an actual, you know, nine to five, I don't know what your hours are, but tell me what your other job is. So I manage a Sunrise record store in Etobicoke here, and I've been working in record stores since the fall of 86.

So I've been bringing the music to people for a very long time. So, I mean, you might know this actually, Robert, but I was reading an article in The Walrus that was written by FOTM Richard Chepunsky and it was talking about like sunrise and like there's like, oh my God, record stores in 2023 and they're like, they're thriving and they're growing

and what the heck is going on here? And there was like a guy named Robert Lawson quoted in this and he was speaking about being the manager of the Cloverdale Mall Sunrise, which is my go- about being the manager of the Cloverdale Mall Sunrise, which is my go-to sunrise. I love the Cloverdale Mall. It's a fun little mall to work in.

How much time do you spend in that home hardware looking for a deal on chocolate? My assistant manager buys a lot of 50-cent chocolate. It's like whenever, I don't know what the deal is. Like the packaging is damaged or for some reason they buy it in bulk and it's not like it's going to make you sick. I don't think it'll make you sick or anything. Like it's not like it's bad for you, but it's for some reason the labeling, maybe they misspelled a word. What do I know?

But it becomes available very cheap at the home hardware in Cloverdale. Like that's a pro tip for Etobicokeans. Wow. And then while you're in there for the cheap chocolate, you got to drop by Sunrise and you might actually see, depending when you go, you might see FOTM Robert Lawson, the manager of the Sunrise Records

in Cloverdale. To me, that's a mind blow already. You'll probably see me. I basically live there, it feels. I do almost 50 hours a week, so I'm there all the time. Wow. Why aren't you there right now?

That's a good question. Are you going to get in trouble for being here? While you're here, who's at the store? I got special permission to visit Toronto Mike. Did you say that you're going to promote the Sunrise store in Cloverdale? This is like a marketing effort for you. Right. Did you tell Doug Putman that you're going to be at Toronto Mike to talk about Sunrise?

I have not talked to Doug in a little while. He's pretty busy. So just a little, because I see that they were once HMVs and then they became Sunrises. And some malls had both and then now they have one. But do you have the 101 here? Is it this Doug individual who's got a little cash behind him? He's the man behind the resurgence of Sunrise in this country, right? Yeah, absolutely. He bought the company maybe eight or nine years ago and really breathes a lot of new

life into it. So my store is an original Sunrise. We opened like 18 years ago or something. But yeah, when HMV declared bankruptcy, he took over the leases of a lot of those stores and turned them into sunrises. But my store is a little bit different. It's an original sunrise. It still has a bit of an old school feel to it.

And we have a lot of loyal customers who've been coming there now for literally 18 years. So have you been there 18 years? No, I did start it. I was the first manager when it opened 18 years ago. No, I did start it. I was the first manager when it opened 18 years ago. And then I went on to some other stores and I was just kind of, I was in a whole bunch of different stores

for the last 20 years. But I've been back now at this one for seven or eight years. I think that's a cool job to manage a record store. Like to me, it's like high fidelity or something, right? Like it's like music fans, I need this vinyl. Can you put it on order? Like it's like I just envision like a lot of music fans knowing you by your name and putting in orders.

And that sounds like a cool job. There's definitely a lot of things in high fidelity that hit really close to home. I saw that movie theatrically when it first came out and I was a little stunned at how much the things in there hit close to home in my experience. Who's the Jack Black of the sunrise at Cloverdale Mall? Putting you on the spot here. Okay, there are several, there are several.

What is your big, I'm just naturally curious because people stream their music now. So is vinyl the big thing the collectors want their vinyl or is it like maybe it's collectibles maybe people are really into like uh uh the peripheral stuff the collectible stuff like what exactly are the hot selling items right now at sunrise in cloverdale well in my store cds are still our main seller, and vinyl's probably pretty close behind. I forgot about CDs. Listen to me, this music snob, Toronto Mike,

totally skipped over CDs, but they're still selling, eh? Oh, yeah, we sell lots of CDs. But there is a resurgence in vinyl, and there's a lot of young people are buying vinyl. I tell people all the time that probably half my sales are people who are under 35 buying vinyl, and that's a lot of fun to have that again good for you man uh long may you run at sunrise records in cloverdale and my dentist is in cloverdale so next time i come in for a uh my cleaning or checkup or whatever i'm gonna drop byrise and see if FOTM Robert Lawson is there. Probably. I did pull an ad.

This is from, I think, about 1993 or 94. Let's listen. Can't wait to find the things you love to be hiding. And so I'm trying to play along. I've got nothing to believe in except for you. Sunrise Records. Out there first. Sunrise Records. Out there first.

That brings me back, buddy. But again, you can live the past today. Go to Cloverdaledale mall go to sunrise records say hi to robert lawson so robert i mentioned i was at horseshoe tavern yeah last night and i had never seen trans canada highwaymen a couple of the members were actually in this basement on monday i had uh stephen page what a thrill it is to have stephen page visit your basement and ch Chris Murphy returned, and it was amazing. Chris is a freaking funny guy. Like, he's just hilarious. And he's got this self-deprecating thing he does where you're never quite sure if it's a bit or not, but now I'm convinced it's all just pure hilarity. But, you know, you're like, oh, maybe I am asking too many Stephen Page questions, and I'm forgetting about poor Chris Murphy from Sloan.

But anyway, great visit from them on Monday. People should absolutely listen. But I'm at the show last night and I'm here to tell you, man, it is unbelievable. Like, they break into a Barenaked Ladies song and it's like, it just sounds great because Stephen Page is on lead vocals

and then there's an Odds song and the next thing you know, she's so young with Moe Berg, who is right in front of me in the front of the stage. And of course, we got underwhelmed. And I'm here to tell you, the show was not underwhelming at all.

Trans Canada Highwaymen are absolutely full value for your entertainment dollar. What a wonderful super group to have in this country. I think they just announced they're uh did they just announce they're playing like the opera house in march correct that's correct yeah yeah it's a fun it's a fun record for sure it's a fun record it's a fun record is that one flying off the shelves

at cloverdale mall sunrise records and currently sold out of the cd but there's a more coming in soon okay cool and again undone is on there and that's a good segue so I mentioned actually you know what if you don't mind can we pay tribute I thought since your last visit we did lose a founding member of the Guess Who because and I got a little music to help us out

here When you move in to ride up close to me That's when I get the chills all over me The chill is all over me Quivers down my back home I got the shakes in my thigh bone I got the shivers in my knee bone Shaking all over All right, I'm dedicating this to Canada Kev who's watching on the live stream.

Hello to Canada Kev. But we lost, Robert, we lost Chad Allen. What can you remind us about Chad Allen? I think there's a little confusion with the younger set about how, I thought this was Backman and Cummings. And when did they enter the fray? How is it Chad Allen's group? What's going on with the Guess Who's origin?

Well, Chad Allen is the original lead vocalist. You know, they started it in the early 60s. And Chad played rhythm guitar and lead vocals. So you also had Bob Ashley, who's a friend of mine, playing that hammering piano that you hear there. Randy Bachman, Jim Kale, and Gary Peterson. And they had a whole bunch of hits and a couple of albums before Bob Ashley left. And they got a new young teenage punk on keyboards, Burton Cummings.

So for a while, Chad Allen was still the lead vocalist, and he had Burton on keyboards. Okay, so how does Chad get squeezed out of the Guess Who? They start playing a little bit of a heavier sound. Once Burton was on board, he did start singing a few songs live, so they would do an an animals cover and stuff like that that burton had a bit more of a gritty voice he could kind of really sink his teeth into and i think chad just kind of knew the writing was on the wall he didn't want to tour as much and

he was a little bit more of a reserved personality so he ended up leaving after the third album yeah did you ever have a chance to see Chad Allen play live? I didn't and unfortunately when I started writing the book, he had just suffered a stroke. So I didn't push for an interview with him. I wanted to give him plenty of time

to recover and he never really fully recovered. I mean, he was doing better for a while. By that point, the book was out and um so yeah recently he he did finally um pass away which is pretty sad for canadian music that song that you just played uh was a number one hit in this country and it hit a number 22 in the states which at the time canada didn't have a lot of international chart success that's when it all begins for the guess who that's uh that's a cover of a British rock song, right?

It's really where it all begins for pop and rock music in this country. Wow. That's ground zero. Okay. And I'm excited to tell everybody the other reason for your visit. So on October 8, 2023,

I recorded episode 1, 1340 of Toronto Mic'd and my special guest for that episode, and that's October, so we're in December, that's only a couple months ago. My special guest was Randy Backman and Randy came on and we talked about Bachman-Turner Overdrive. We talked about The Simpsons. We talked about Vinyl Tap. We discussed why he wasn't part of Tears Are Not Enough. We talked about the scene in Winnipeg when he was coming up. We talked about his buddy Neil Young.

We talked about, of course, reuniting, he was reunited with his lost guitar. And we talked about writing American Woman in Kitchener. This is what we discussed. The episode's a little over an hour.

What did you, Robert Lawson, think about episode 1,340 of Toronto Mic'd with Randy Backman? Well, you know, let me say from the top that I am a fan of Randy. I love the songwriting and the guitar playing that he did in the guess who he's obviously a really important part of that and an important part of me growing up as a kid in in canada having said that having said i love it when people think let

me start by saying these very nice things about the legend that is randy backman but don't hold back let me hear the rest. Well, Randy, if you really follow Randy and you really pay attention, Randy has a, he really stretches the truth a lot. And, you know, you get that in rock and roll. A lot of these guys, they don't remember things as well as guys who write books about them and guys who, you know, follow them.

And that's totally understandable i don't i don't expect any you know rocker to remember what happened on this one night in 1969 and this and what album was this song on and and the details the minutiae i don't expect them to pay that much attention to but randy really comes out swinging and it's and it's a problem with credibility. Okay, so you wrote the book, Wheatfield Empire. I see you have a copy with you right now. Do you sell those at Sunrise in Cloverdale? I do, if somebody wants a...

You could go there when Robert Lawson is working, and you could get the author to sign it. For some people, or for some reason, people do like it signed i don't know why but it does it adds that extra like i think that's the you know in this day and age it's well unless you're buying like a stephen king book or whatever but if you're like i was just i just had damien cox and gordon stellick over here and it was really an amazing episode those two guys are so good together and they were sitting here and they got a new book and i realized

like oh if you're gonna buy a damien cox scored stellic book for somebody's holiday gift in 2023 get it signed by the authors like it's so they're happy to do it they're local you know if you can get wheatfield empire sold so if you have if you have a guess who fan in your life wheatfield empire available in well in lots of places but also uh sunrise at Cloverdale. Or I'm going to send an invoice for that one. That one's been beyond. Okay. So I want you to sell these books.

Okay. So what's it like? So you who wrote that book and you've done a lot of research and you're trying to tell the definitive history of the Guess Who, when you listen to Randy Backman on a podcast like Toronto Mike, where I'm really just like excited to collect the stories from Randy, like Toronto Mike, where I'm really just like excited to collect the stories from Randy. Randy's a great storyteller. And obviously, sometimes he doesn't want the facts to disrupt the flavor of the story. And maybe there are times where he doesn't even know he's printing legend because it's just a better story. So we're going to walk through in total, eight claims. So eight claims

that were made by Randy Backman on toronto mic i even pulled the clips and then in great detail you're gonna just tell me where randy goes wrong you okay with that yeah and you're not gonna hold back right uh you know you gotta tell it like it is here so let's start with this clip let's listen listen to Randy Backman talking about Fred Turner. You're literally getting the band back together, right? You and Fred are going to reform Bachman Turner overdrive. Well,

it's an evolution and, uh, it's in process right now. And, uh, yeah, we've already done a couple of test gigs and looking forward to a big year next year. Next year is the 50th, if you can believe it, anniversary

of Not Fragile being the number one album. You ain't seen nothing yet being number one single in about 25 countries. I'm releasing, which you just found, BTO Live in Budokan, 1975-76. So we've got 18 songs there that are live. So that's going to be coming out. In the meantime, I'm doing gigs with Tal as Bachman.

Bachman, because in the COVID shutdown, we had no gigs. We did a Friday night YouTube that we called The Trainwreck, that we came with two guitars. I just goofed around like Wayne's World and tried to stump each other playing songs and basically it was a train wreck but fans loved it they loved seeing professional guys making mistakes playing in the wrong key stopping the middle of the song saying what that chord and all that stuff and so we had a really great following we've done a lot of gigs as that and um which which really is baffling to me and stunning and fun that we got called to do it again coming up in Muskoka at the resort and then another one the next day in Niagara Falls. So it's pretty cool.

So the claim made early. Now, I wanted to use that full clip because you did point something out about how when he doesn't want to answer a question, he kind of ramb on about barely related info so he kind of went into like a sales spiel there but the claim made there by randy backman i heard of my ears essentially is that bachman turner overdrive is getting back together and that includes fred turner what do you have to say about that robert lawson well you know yeah first of all you asked him a very clear question about bto and and he quickly just went off onto talking about doing the backman backman with tal and doing the youtube thing i don't i don't know if i would really say that all the fans loved watching that that train YouTube videos. They were hard to watch. I mean, I watched a whole bunch of them.

And, you know, seeing Randy not know how to play guitar to some of his biggest songs, I didn't think that was very fun. But maybe other people don't take it as seriously as me. Well, but that is for sure. But that doesn't disregard your great notes here. So please continue here. Well, so anyway, he didn't answer your question about Fred being back

and Bachman Turner over. He said we played a couple of shows already, which he had. Okay, I'm going to play the first 10 seconds of that clip because I know it went on

for a bit here. You're literally getting the band back together, right? You and Fred are going to reform Bachman Turner Overdrive. Well, it's an evolution and it's in process right now. And, yeah, we've already done a couple of test gigs

and looking forward to a big year next year. Next year is... Okay, so he's a little noncommittal, I'd say there. He's a little careful with his language there. He says it's an evolution. We've already done a couple of tests. I will tell you, before he jumped on the call with me somebody who i guess his management or pr i'm not sure whatever layer helped arrange this for me did send me notes that definitely said that fred turner was a part

of this bto reunion like that was in my notes but you're skeptical, the two shows that he mentioned that the reunited BTO played recently in the States, Fred was not there. Do we have any word from Fred? Get me Fred on Toronto, Mike. Do you know, has Fred made any comments at all that he's going to be a member of BTO again and go on tour with Randy? I have two mutual friends of Fred's in Winnipeg

who as soon as Randy was announcing that BTO was getting back together, and by the way, he's using old BTO photos and clips of BTO. So, like, I think when he first announced it on Twitter, it was a picture of the original, maybe not the original, the main four guys when BTO were at their biggest.

So, Robbie Backman, Fred Turner, Randy, and Blair Thornton. And it said, we're at their biggest so robbie backman fred turner randy and blair thornton and it said we're back now randy's the only guy in that picture who's actually back so the two uh mutual friends that i have in winnipeg both asked fred directly to his face um one guy manages the record store out there and uh fred just came right out and said i'm not doing that you know fred's been retired for i don't know eight ten years or something all right because that's going to tie into the second claim so maybe we'll revisit the uh retirement of fred turner by playing a second clip from that episode of toronto miked the nucleus of the band keeps going although somebody has passed away or somebody can't do it anymore, or somebody doesn't

want to do it, or somebody hasn't done it for 40 years, like with BTO, I kept playing, and had many little, I don't know, mini careers in between with solo albums and stuff, and Blair Thornton never played at all, so you got a guy who hasn't played for 40 years. You try to get him back. It's very tough. But if you've got a guy that's playing golf every week or every day, he goes out and plays a game of golf with you, and he does pretty well. So 40 years, he says. I don't know Blair Thornton. I don't know what he's doing these days.

I'm going to guess that it might be a stretch to say that he was even approached about this BTO reunion, and to say that he was even approached about this BTO reunion and to say that he hasn't played any music in 40 years that's probably a stretch too. Like I said, I don't know what he's doing these days but he's out there. He's alive. I would hazard a guess that he was not even approached

about this. And really what difference does it make when Fred himself has been retired many years now? That's right. And so, yeah, so to say that Blair can't do it because he hasn't been in the music business for a long time. Fred hasn't been in the music business for a long time. And he's the vocalist. So his chops are even, you know, more important to stay on top of whether he's playing golf or not.

I don't even know what that meant. See, I need a Robert Lawson to break down every episode of Toronto Mike. There should be an after show where I have on a subject matter expert to kind of fact check certain things because I can't do this. I don't have the subject matter expertise that you do

Robert. So I'm actually, you know, a couple you had a couple of months to process to digest and here we are going through some of the claims made by Randy Backman on Toronto Mic'd. And again, if you want the full episode and all its wonderful flavoring, it's episode 1340. So we are now breaking down episode 1340. Hey, I remember, before I get to this next clip,

I remember, Robert, you're a huge Great Lakes brewery fan, right? Yes, I love GLB. you're a huge Great Lakes brewery fan, right? Yes. I love GLB. What's your favorite Great Lakes beer? Well, actually, they just had a limited edition of the, it was a very limited

Octopus Wants to Fight, but it was a New England style and it was amazing. And he's wearing like a wig, right? One of those powdered wigs or something. It always sells out really quickly. Last year, I missed it.

I wasn't able to get it. And this year, I think I got eight tins of it. I wasn't able to get it. And this year I think I got eight tens of it. I should have just got a whole case. You know, you have friends in high places, Robert. As an FOTM, you could put in that card. You just have to let me know. I'll arrange with Troy to put aside a case for you. You just got to give me

a heads up. Which limited release are you interested in? And I'll do my best for you, man. I know people. Robert, you're in the game here, man. The sting of ours, okay? All right. So Great Lakes beer. I don't actually have that beer for you,

but I do have some... I'm out of here. That's it. Robert's gone. That's all right. I almost kicked Robert out because he's wearing a hat from another brewery

and I said, oh, that's not allowed in the Toronto Mike basement. But then I realized man cannot subside on Great Lakes alone, So I'm going to let it go. But I am going to send you home with some fresh craft beer today, Robert. So you're bringing that home for you. They might not make it home. They might not make it home. And because it is the holiday season, actually, I would do it even if it wasn't the holiday season. But I do have a large lasagna in my freezer for you.

And that is courtesy of Palma Pasta. I'm a giving man, Robert. That's a good lasagna. It is delicious. And I missed you. I know you had to work at Sunrise at Cloverdale. And you could not make TMLX 14 on Saturday. But I've been bumping into people who were there.

And it sounds like everybody had a great time. And next time, I hope it fits into your schedule and we can get you to a TMLX event. Yeah, for sure. Alright, I'm going to get the gifts out of the way actually. So, this is a wireless speaker. This is courtesy of Mineris

so you can connect via Bluetooth. It's a quality speaker. Robert, with that of course you're going to listen to a lot of Guess Who, but you're're going to listen to a lot of Guess Who? But you're also going to listen to season five of Yes, We Are Open, which is an award-winning podcast. This podcast you're on right now, Robert,

it's been nominated, hasn't won anything. But Yes, We Are Open is an award-winning podcast hosted by award-winning podcaster Al Grego. And he went to the Maritimes in Newfoundland and collected inspiring stories from small business owners. And he shares them on season five of Yes, We Are Open. So, Robert, you got a speaker to listen to Al's great voice. Great. Thank you.

And because you're doing so well at Sunrise, you need some good quality investment advice. We all do. And whether you already work with a trusted financial advisor or currently manage your own investment plans, the Advantaged Investor Podcast provides the engaging wealth management information you value as you pursue your most important goals.

So, Moneris has your back. Raymond James has your back. And Ridley Funeral Home has your back there's a measuring tape for you Robert they're pillars of the community great podcast from Brad Jones is called Life's Undertaking so shout out to

Ridley Funeral Home alright another clip of Randy Backman and I like this because you know I'm a big Simpsons fanatic and I like it when all my worlds collide so let's listen to Randy Backman. And I like this because, you know, I'm a big Simpsons fanatic. And I like it when all my worlds collide. So let's listen to Randy Backman talking about his appearance on The Simpsons.

Who are those pleasant old men? It's BTO. They're Canada's answer to ELP. Their big hit was TCB. That's how we talked in the 70s. We didn't have a moment to spare. Hello, Springfield! We're going to play all your old favorites. But first, we'd like

to dip into our new CD. Taking care of business! Don't worry, sir. We'll get to that one. No talking! No new crap! Taking care of business, now! This is a working overtime part! Unbelievable. Dumbass. Working overtime.

Wake up! First lady, I ain't seen nothing yet! I ain't seen nothing yet. I ain't seen nothing yet. We just did. Whatever. Be sure to stick around for the battle of the elementary school bands. Oh, boomer. Lisa's in that.

I stand by my disappointed groan. Well, I'm sitting in my office. I lived on Salt Spring Island then. I'm sitting in my office, and out of my fax machine comes this request to use Taking Care of Business, and you ain't seen nothing yet on The Simpsons. And so I take the fact, wow, I phoned Sony, who handled my publishing, and said, what is this? Like, how do they want to use the songs? Is it background music? They said, oh, no, they want you on the show. And I said, what?

So are you afraid on the show your BTO is playing Springfield? I said, you're kidding. They said, oh, no, they want you on the show. And I said, what? They want you and Fred on the show? Your BTO is playing Springfield. I said, you're kidding. They said, no. So then I followed up. They flew me into LA. They also flew Fred in separately. They wanted us separately.

When I went into the mic, they said, you're not going to see anyone. You're going to be alone on the mic because you're going to be in awe if you're in a room and you see the guy who does haku's voice and the person who does march simpson's voice you're going to be in awe of sitting with these people and you're going to be gaga we just want you there so i go into a room alone and they say okay here's your script they come out you say hello springfield so i go hello springfield they go no okay that's the one person now do it for 20 person people i go hello springfield okay now do it for 200 hello now do it for 20 000 hello springfield you do the thing that's it that's that's how they get you to act right they they get that moment where you're you suddenly you're doing what they're telling you to do and it's more instinctive and you're yelling like somebody just hits your foot

you're screaming ow you're screaming fire fire there's a fire and so I did all that then I left okay so the claim made in that clip by Randy Backman is that he recorded his Simpsons voiceover alone because if the

cast was there if the guy you know by the way the guy doesn't do a poo anymore there's no a poo on the simpsons anymore everybody but in the you know uh julie cavender doing marge simpson will distract you what say you guess who expert robert lawson well it's not really that great a story anyway uh you know i mean poor poor randy i don't i don't know what else to say you know, I mean, poor Randy. I don't know what else to say. You know, it is not uncommon for voice actors to record their parts separately. I think when Kung Fu Panda was being made,

who's in that? Jack Black. Are we back to Jack Black? I guess it's the second Jack Black reference today. Yeah, but who's in that? Jack Black. Are we back to Jack Black? I guess it's the second Jack Black reference today. Yeah, but who's the older? Oh, yeah. You know what? You keep going to this story and I'll find out.

I haven't seen it. Oh, Dustin Hoffman. Okay, Dustin Hoffman, yes. Sam Etick on The Simpsons. So you can find interviews with Dustin Hoffman that he was very disappointed when he recorded his parts for Kung Fu Panda that he didn't meet any of the other actors

because he's used to bouncing off of them and having that energy and stuff. So it's just not uncommon for animation. So Randy's making a story like, okay, you're going to do it alone so you're not distracted. That's how all the voiceover actors and guests on The Simpsons are treated. It's just not that great a story. And to say that you'd be distracted by seeing the people who do the voices, I don't know, they're just people.

It's not like you necessarily have a face name. How can Randy do his work and speak to 20,000 people and say, hello, Springfield, if he sees Dan Castellaneta doing the voice of Homer J. Simpson? Yeah, I don't know. It's just not that great. The original story of it is probably not that great that it doesn't even need embellishing i love this robert because you're like the you're the perfect counterpoint

to the exuberant uh randy backman here you're just here to like throw water on the the fire here and we need this reality check okay so that's the simpsons claim i do have a question for you robert lawson this is from the live, live.torontomike.com. I mentioned Canada Kev was here. It's always a good time when Canada Kev was here. Please tell me the story about Randy's stuttering brother was the impetus for baby, you ain't seen nothing yet. Yeah, he tells that story.

I don't know how much. Like, do we need to have a grain of uh say what do you have a grain of salt a grain of sand what are you supposed to have good salt every time we hear a randy backman story because he's embellishes so much yes absolutely uh almost any time that i see or read or hear flags are an interview with randy i'm just like oh man come on and i don't i don't know you know i will go on record by saying i don't know why he does it and i i wouldn't be so bold you want me to tell you why he does it because he's really good at telling a story so he'll craft his story you know with the

cadence and then the punch line and sometimes you need to embellish the facts to give it the punch he seeks so i think that simpson's story example, like I think he was really honored. And it really is impressive to me that, you know, Fred and Randy had voice over appearances on The Simpsons. To me, this is a very big deal. I can't think how many Canadian rock stars have had that. Right. So this is a very, very big deal. And I think he wants to share this exciting story

that he got called and they want to not only use your songs, but your voices are going to be in it. So he needs to add a little like spice along the way in his tale. So there's that whole like, you're going to do it here so you're not distracted.

Say it to one person, say it to 100 people, say it to 200 people, say it to 20,000 people. Like, I think he's just building the story because he's like a master storyteller. Well, one thing I try and do with my books and I'm actually trying to do with my life

is just to live honestly. Right. Like no bullshit. I study Buddhism and there's one universal truth. Like Lisa Simpson. Yeah. Well, I didn't want to be, you know. That's true.

Richard Gere got her into it, as I recall. Right, that's true. So, you know, there is one universal truth, and sometimes either, you know, like Bob Dylan says, if something's not right, it's wrong. And I don't think Randy has any real need to embellish a lot of these stories. Also, some of his stories are not,

it's not that he's embellishing a story. Some of them are pure fiction. And that's very different. Okay, maybe we'll get to some of those. You're right, exactly. There's one thing to embellish a story because he was on The Simpsons. We heard the audio evidence.

But we're going to come up to some claims that we don't think actually happened here. Okay, so let's see here. We have a clip about Fred Turner still playing. Let's listen in here. The 60s, when we were teenagers in Winnipeg, was a very amazing time. There was over 100 bands playing all the time.

I was very lucky. There were the top five bands, who was Chad Allen and the Expressions, who became the Guess allen and the expressions who became the guess who the devrons with burton cummings and when burton joined the guests too the devrons broke up fred turner was in the rocking devils the rocking devils and neil young was the neil young and the squires those four guys backman cum Cummings Turner, Young are still playing and rocking in the free world

okay there you go the claim there I heard it with my own ears and I've actually re-listened to this episode a few times because of how Randy tells the story Backman, Cummings, Turner Young those four playing in Winnipeg all those years ago are

still playing in 2023. What say you? Robert Lawson. Well, it's just not true. I mean, Fred is retired. He hasn't played in a long, long time. And again, he did not play at those recent BTO reunion shows. So

to say that they're all playing this is not true so is this a like a like a hopeful like he thinks he needs fred to sell a bto reunion like if it was just backman and backman and then other players is that bto like you've got randy backman in there and of course he's gonna play with his son but you know he talked about making it like a family band does he feel on some level like he needs Fred Turner to make this actually a BTO reunion? Well, I know somebody who went to one of the shows in the States, and he told me that during the show, Randy said,

Fred's not here tonight, but he will be joining the tour when he feels better, and that's just a lie. Maybe it's wishful thinking maybe maybe uh he's hoping that he will be able to convince uh fred turner to hit the road with him in 2024 well maybe um but saying that he will is different than saying that he that we hope it'll happen you know wow. This next claim is quite something and it did ring loud when I heard it, but I'll say from my perspective, so I'm chatting with Randy Backman.

He's not in the basement, I'll point out. Like most people have to come in the basement, but I did make an exception for Randy Backman because he's Randy Backman. So he was in, he might've been in White Rock or something. We were connecting remotely. I'm not sure where he was actually,

now that I think about it. But, you know, he dropped this name and my ears pricked up, but I am in no position to call out the great Randy Backman when he does this. And I did not. But then I can, two months later, I can have Robert Lawson in the basement

when Randy's not here and we can do it then. So let's listen to this claim on Toronto Mic'd. This is Randy Backman. Because I played with everybody in the world. I'm right from, you know, Miles Davis to Dizzy Gillespie to you know what I mean, to Buffalo Springfield and the Birds and everybody else.

Okay, the name that's ringing out to me there is the name it reminds me on Monday, I mentioned Stephen Page was here with Chris Murphy. A couple of other rock legends in this country and it came up organically if if peeing your pants is cool call me miles davis and then we learned that tyler campbell the vp of sales knows the kid who peed his pants in billy madison

like it all was a wonderful come full circle here moment. But the claim made by Randy Backman in that clip is that he played with Miles Davis. Yeah, there's no way that ever happened. Wow! Because that is no longer embellishing. Now you're making it up. I'm willing to give him a little bit of leeway

and assume that maybe BTO were on some festival that Miles Davis also played at. But the idea that they ever played together or probably even met, I really would doubt that. Hello to Dale Cadeau, who is in BC, I believe, right now listening to us live. He says, good morning, Robert. Good morning, Mike.

Because it would be, well, it's still Good morning, Mike. Cause it would be a, it was still morning here. Actually. I just looked at the clock, but I want to say it was great to see Dale at TMLX 14. Uh, we don't see as much of Dale as we like because he's in BC, but he's been a loyal listener for many,

many, many years. Big fan of Mike Richards. Uh, I was going to put Dale on the mic and he basically said, no, you're putting Mike Richards on the mic. And then a half an hour later, we came up for air. What a wonderful time that was. And he basically said, no, you're putting Mike Richards on the mic. And then a half an hour later,

we came up for air. What a wonderful time that was. So hello, Dale. Canada Cav is really trying to fit the story. Cause he says, a storyteller has a new definition for me with Randy. Now you've really opened his eyes to some of this embellishment.

And he's wondering maybe, you know, it was a big festival. And on this one stage at one time was miles davis and on another stage at another time is i don't know randy backman bto or something uh who knows and maybe at the side of the stage he was holding a guitar but there's no evidence that we have that randy backman and miles davis ever played together they definitely never did i'm a huge you know there's two there's two guys you would know There's two guys that I collect everything that I can.

My two musical heroes, and one's Bob Dylan, and the other's Miles Davis. So I'm very familiar with, I know more about Miles than I do about the Guess Who, actually. That should be my next book. Wow, that's your next book, Miles Davis. If peeing your pants is cool, call me Miles Davis. Wow.

It's funny to think there's probably a younger generation that know Miles Davis from that line from Billy funny to think there's probably a younger generation that know Miles Davis from that line from Billy Madison. Isn't that interesting? Well, miles is timeless. Miles is timeless, but you need a,

uh, you need a guide to introduce you to the world of Miles Davis. Cause you don't bump into Miles Davis in the wild anymore. Like I, you know, you and I are of an age where we lived on the planet at the same time as Miles Davis. But I'm thinking now,

like I need you to write a book about miles davis and then come on and then introduce people to miles davis and then uh i can get my 21 year old to discover miles davis because right now we just know is that he's cool because if you pee your pants if it's cool then call me miles davis okay great reference vinyl tap which i think I called Vinyl Cafe when I was talking to Randy. That's a slip, but I'm sure I'm not the first to make that slip. But I like to make a slip once in a while, keep my guests on their toes. Okay. Well, it makes Randy feel comfortable. Oh, good. We're not telling the truth. I'll fit right in. Yeah. He's like, yeah, I was the host of Vinyl Cafe. That was me. Morty. Wasn't it Morley? And I'm trying to remember the characters in Vinyl Cafe.

Okay. I didn't like Vinyl Cafe when it aired because it seemed cheesy and corny. Like it seemed kind of, I never liked it. But then when he died, I think I gained an appreciation for what he was doing with those characters. And that meant a lot to a lot of Canadians from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean. Okay. Let's get to another Randy Backman claim about Vinyl Cafe. After a while, and I don't know why this happens.

It happens with every iPhone and every Mac computer. A new guy comes in. He invents something new, and they change your face page on YouTube or Google, and you can't figure it out. You want the old one. And when something works, they stop making it, like a drum machine or a guitar tuner. And when a radio show works, they bring in a young guy who says,

we want to modernize the CBC. And let's get rid of Hockey Night in Canada. Duh, are you kidding? Let's get rid of Stuart McLean. Let's get rid of Randy Backman. Let's get a younger audience. And they brought a guy in who basically fired me.

There I am showing my disgust with that. That's me, my big gasp at the end. Like, how dare they fire you, Randy? Okay, so the claim made by Randy Backman in that clip is that Vinyl Tap was cancelled because some new exec fired him. They wanted to change things up. Tell me what you know.

Yeah, that's definitely not true. Well, I'm not doubting that. I mean, someone definitely fired him. That part's true. But for a long time, Randy and his manager at the time, and he's gone through a few managers since, they were getting warned by the CBC that there were two main problems

with the Vinyl Tap radio show. And one of them is that by playing his own music on the show, which he did a lot. Yes, he did. So he's getting, you know, he's playing Guess Who songs, he's playing BTO, Prairie Town, whatever. He's playing all that stuff.

Portage, Maine, 15 Blue. Still like that stuff. Portage, Maine, 15 below. I still like that song. So he's earning royalties through our government subsidized CBC. So that's just part of CBC's own

guidelines. That's a conflict. Then that's a good rule because yeah, he's basically, yeah, he's using a like you said, it's a public. But then that's a good rule because, yeah, he's basically, yeah, he's using a, you know, like you said, it's a public broadcaster and he's manipulating the system to put money in his bank account. Right. So CBC has, you know, that's just a conflict of interest and that's in their guidelines. That's just part of, you know, and probably a lot of stations and, you know, whether it's a TV or radio show, you know, you can't have the host of the nightly news all of a sudden plugging his own, you know, book or something

unless it's allowed. So Randy was warned repeatedly, him and his manager at the time, that that is a conflict of interest. It has to stop. And they continued doing it. The other thing was that CBC was getting a lot of complaints from listeners when Randy would be telling these outlandish stories that were clearly not true. And when he was, you know, just really going off on these fictional accounts, because that's also something that the CBC frowns upon. And I'm sure listeners will write into the CBC when they hear a falsehood shared by a host. Sure. I used to kind of track it they hear a falsehood shared by a host? Sure. I used to kind of track it on Twitter a bit

and people would constantly be just like tagging CBC at the end of one of Randy's vinyl tap posts or tweets and just mention like there's no way that that happened. We know that that wasn't on this date or that date and it's not

hard in this day and age for any kind of rock star or musician to get a good fact checker uh i'm not saying necessarily i would do it with randy because it would be a full-time job but there's enough people out there that you know you can get somebody on your team to help with this kind of stuff very interesting so too many stories essentially that were false. And then of course, earning royalties by playing his own. I did notice a lot of Randy Backman music on a vinyl tap without a doubt. And you know,

when it went, so when it went to, um, chorus, the chorus network, it became like a podcast and they always had the full song inside. And I always, I always enjoy a podcast with the full song inside. They're hard to find, you know, Toronto Mike has it. Tell your friends and family. Okay. had the full song inside and i always i always enjoy a podcast with the full song inside they're

hard to find you know toronto mic has it tell your friends and family okay but i remember definitely i grew very tired of the surprisingly narrow playlist that always included um uh letter ride or so whatever some some bto song and and also a guess who song and maybe if i'm lucky i'm gonna get portage main 15 below which is a good jam what do you think of that song well i grew up in winnipeg so i know that i know that corner well no it's it's fun you know i i don't really have an issue with with a lot of randy's music like i said his when i was a kid i really liked bto a lot and and his guess who stuff is still great to me. So that's never an issue.

I'm just really interested in the truth. No, bless you, and you're in the right place too. If a documentary comes out like 299 Queen Street and there's a falsehood in there, this is where we shine a light on it to get the truth out there. Barenaked Ladies did not make their television debut on Speaker's Corner. No matter how many times you report that as fact, it is simply untrue.

The TV debut of Barenaked Ladies was the YTV Youth Awards, definitely before their Speaker's Corner video for Yoko Ono. But I digress. Okay, let's get... In fact, I'm going to play a little music to warm us up for this one because we're really kicking ass here, buddy. This is a jam right here. American Woman Stay away from me American Woman Mama, let me be

Don't come a- come hanging around my door. I don't want to see your face no more. I got more important things to do than spend my time growing old with you. Now, woman, I said stay away. American woman, listen what I say. Listen what I say. All right, so I'm going to play another claim made by Randy Backman in episode 1340 of Toronto Mike, which was recorded only a couple of months ago.

But now I'm curious what you think of the lawsuit that we've been reading about this last month. Verdon Cummings and Randy Backman seem concerned that there's a Guess Who touring, particularly in the States, and signing their albums and seemingly presenting themselves as the Guess Who. But what do you think about that lawsuit, Robert Lawson? It's long overdue. It's long overdue. It's long overdue. The group in the States, there is a group called

The Guess Who, and they tour in the States. They put out a new album this year. And yeah, they use a lot of the original Guess Who music, Guess Who footage to promote their shows. And if you really start looking into it, they really make it seem as if guys like Burton or Randy are going to be there.

Do you think they're trying to pull it over on small-town Americans who maybe assume these are the guys who are singing the song we're listening to right now? Like, oh, this must be the band that played on the American Woman album. Oh, they're absolutely doing that. Well, that's bullshit. That's the reason why that version of the Guess Who really never plays in Canada. I mean, I think...

We're too knowledgeable. They had one show in the province of Quebec, I think in 2022, but it wasn't even in Montreal or Quebec City. Okay, so they're too smart to go where there's an educated audience that'll point out the fact that so who is left from the uh like who's the last link remind me gary peterson on drums is still in the current guess who although i know for a fact that in 2022 he missed a lot of shows so even he was replaced so if you saw the guess who in 2022

there's a very very good chance that there were no original members at all sass jordan's husband is uh the singer for the so this new guess who needs to rebrand like it's sort of like when credence clearwater revisited or something like that. We need a caveat that this is the guess who redux or something. And legally, I feel like you're right. This should have been corrected a long time ago because it was always befuddling how they could use the name. But I guess Gary Peterson had the rights to the name. Well, the original basis, Jim Kale, he owned the rights.

And I don't know if now he just leases it out to Gary because Jim's retired. So from a legal standpoint, yes, they can use that name. Using Guess Who songs, Guess Who album covers, stuff like that to promote it. I mean, they just posted something recently. They're trying to I don't know if they're promoting their Spotify account or they're saying, you know they're they're trying to i don't know if they're promoting their like spotify account or they're saying you know the the band who brought you such hits as american woman these eyes undone right laughing and then it's a picture of all these new guys

oh my god so disingenuous okay so it's it's a blood sport we'll see what happens there uh of course i wanted your perspective on it but I just played American Woman because we're going to close with a couple of claims made by Randy. I think he said I had one question left. Well, let's listen to this clip of Toronto Mic'd. Was the song American Woman written in Kitchener, Ontario? And if so, do you remember where and when you first performed that song publicly? do you remember where and when you first performed that song publicly? Yeah, it was the Greenbrier's Curling Club. There was a curling tournament. We played in this curling arena. It was in February. It was freezing. There was a boss field the next day, so the ice was down. They put plywood on the floor. We were playing on stage freezing. Everyone

was wearing toots and parkas in this gig. i broke a string and when i went to change my guitar string the band had left the stage i had no roadie no spare guitar no tuner i put on the string and i was on my knees tuning to burton's piano and as i start to tune down down down down down down i start to play down down i'm on my knees in the dark on the stage and i start to play and all the audience who are talking amongst themselves I'm on my knees in the dark on the stage. And I start to play. And all the audience who are talking amongst themselves, their head turns to the stage. And I go, oh, my God, I can't forget this riff. And I stand up and I'm looking around.

And I see the drummer, Gary Peterson. I go like this. He comes on stage. Jim Kale comes on stage. And we start to play this riff and say, play this riff over and over. I don't want to forget this riff. And Burton comes running on stage. He was at the back of the hall then goes running on stage going what is this i just sing anything sing something to remember this riff by and he sings american woman stay away from me sings it four or five times we solo he sings the same line again

okay so the man can tell a story wow i can hear my wows there i have a wow now so the claim is that i think when i heard that story i was saying wow too but not for the same reason you fell off your chair you're like i i can't believe my ears so the claim made by randy backman in that clip we just heard is that uh the concert that american woman was created at was during a, like a freeze. It was freezing cold February. He said it was a curling rink. Tell me the truth. Well, the story changes a lot. And,

and I did point out a bunch of the stuff in my book, just because this was a main one that I really want to get right. Do you want to read from your book or no? Okay. We'll do a live reading later. Okay. Cause I know you, you do discuss this on pages 55 and 56 of your excellent, read from your book or no okay because we'll do a live reading later okay because i know you you

do discuss this on pages uh 55 and 56 of your excellent book wheatfield empire so the the thing is that this is you know i didn't want the book to just come out as like an anti-randy thing and so i had to let some things go you know there's some things that you don't have to he tells these stories maybe that's a different book. But this one I thought was really important. It's a huge song for Canada. It's a huge international hit for the Guess Who. So I really went through it.

And I do point out some of the different stories that he's told about it. But it definitely didn't happen in the winter. And that's just kind of going by. I have a list of every show the Guess Who ever played and going off of a tour itineraries and also seeing when that album was recorded from when he you know says that they did it if they had done it in the winter um at at the show then it would have been on the next album which was before american woman so it's just time wise it doesn't you know but i have an interview where he says it was on Valentine's Day, which was on a Saturday.

That year, Valentine's Day, I think was actually on a Friday. There's times that he says it was around Christmas. That's just not true. None of that is true. They did do a jam, and it seems like it was in Kitchener,

although sometimes some people seem to think it was Scarborough. Wow, there's a big difference between Scarborough and Kitchener. But from that jam, then they worked they worked on it you know it's not like the song was fully formed i think the way he tells that story which is a great story which is why he got the wow from me is that you know he discovers the riff he's like oh my god i've got this thing and then you can see burning cum he's running on the stage and he's like randy's like say something say

something american woman get away from me like and it's like randy's like say something say something american woman get away from me like and it's like wow like in the movie that's the scene right like he's basically writing a screenplay yeah like you know that that magic moment happened but they um you know they worked on it at at rehearsals and at sound checks and at subsequent shows and then again in the studio until they really had it down so it's not like the version of american woman that you play and that we've all heard all of our lives that that's what happened that night at kitchener i'm sure it was a very loose and uh there's no doubt that the uh the verses were not written yet or anything like that you know randy likes to say that the song was like kind of an anti-vietnam war thing

uh but maybe that ties into the last claim and we could pick up on the whole Vietnam thing. Okay, let's do that. So when Randy says this is a cold February day in Kitchener, your research suggests that it's actually more likely to have been August 1969. Right. And I also interviewed a guy who was in the opening act at that show who confirmed with me that it definitely was not a winter curling event that he's saying that it was.

No, it wasn't that cold in that August day. Even in Kitchener, it wasn't that cold. So this is why journalism matters, people. We need the Robert Lawsons of the world to do the due diligence and to seek out the truth. I did not know you were a practicing Buddhist. That's exciting.

Okay. So one more claim here. I just want to shout out recyclemyelectronics.ca because if anyone listening has some old cables an old uh an old iphone uh old electronics of any kind do not throw it in the garbage because the chemicals end up in our landfill go to recycle my electronics.ca and find a place near you you can drop it off to be properly recycled and thank you to EPRA for their support in 2023.

And it is very exciting to me that EPRA are on board for 2024. On that note, the listenership continues to grow on Toronto Mike. The buzz continues to grow. So many people tracked me down at the Horseshoe Tavern last night to tell me how much they love Toronto Mike. One guy said it's the only podcast

you'll listen to. Maybe he's blowing smoke up my ass the way that Randy was on episode 1340. But I choose to believe it. But the numbers are huge. The rankings are big. There's a lot going on here. And if you want to be a partner of Toronto Mike in 2024, send me

a note right now. Don't even wait for the final fact check here. Go to mike at torontomic.com. Send a note. We can chat about it. I'd love to have you on board. Maybe one day Sunrise Records in Cloverdale will be a sponsor of Toronto Mic'd. Who knows?

We'll talk to Doug and see if he's got it in the budget. Okay. You ready for the final clip? And then we can talk about Vietnam. Here we go. And then it was all done and the audience sensed this creative surge coming from the angels of song who after

you try to write a song for years and years says let's give this poor guy a shot at writing a good song. So they sent this happening and then the next day Burton said can i add some lyrics to that can i add we don't want your war machine great because we had been in the state then this is the late 60s they tried to draft us they were drafting everybody between 18 and 30 to go and fight the war in a jungle that nobody knew and you either learn to kill or be

killed there you'll never come home and if you do come home you're never the same it was a really stupid sentence just like what's going on now. America's been at war for over 200 years with somebody somewhere. They're always in a war. And the song was written there on stage. In fact, there's a sign that says American Woman is written on this spot. It's now True Value Hardware.

And it's right there in the store. It says American Woman was written on this spot in February of something of 1969 or something like that. All right, Robert. You've been amazing. I just want to thank you for dropping by again. It was worth the trip here just for the Great Lakes

beer, you know that. But it's always a pleasure to see you and I will pop into the sunrise at Cloverdale to see if FOTM Robert Lawson is working one of his 50 plus hours. I know this is your busy season. I'll try not to bug you too much.

But the claim I heard, and I don't know why I didn't pick up on it in the first time around because it seems obvious in retrospect, but the claim made by Randy Backman in that clip is that the United States tried to draft the guess who to go fight in the Vietnam War. What say you, Robert? Maybe I don't know enough about how the draft works.

I don't know how, you know, the four main guys in the guess who at that time, they're all born in Winnipeg, so they're all Canadian citizens. I'm sure they had work visas to be able to play in the States. I don't know if that's, is that possible? Maybe it's someone who knows, you know, more about. So the question you're asking aloud, and I think we all know the answer,

but the question you're asking aloud is, can the United States of America draft a Canadian citizen into war? It's a good question. I'm thinking the answer is hell no, but no but yeah that would be a shocker right there a canadian band goes and tours the states and gets drafted and they find themselves on the front lines like there's the movie right there man we were just playing a rock and roll show man these long haired you know long hairs end up in vietnam it's like, I'm from Winnipeg, man. Yeah, right. Wow, wow.

But, you know, that's the last clip I pulled, but you said it could have been worse, right? Like, you've heard Randy Backman talk about hanging out with the Beatles, the Stones, the Who, you know, and you don't believe all that's true either. Well, in the 60s the guests who went over to london england for like a week or two weeks or something and uh they were supposed to play and they didn't have the right visas and stuff like that so they they didn't get

to play they did a little bit of recording and they did a lot of sightseeing so but there are interviews with randy where he says that while they were there they hung out with yes the beatles the stones the who herman's hermits the kinks everybody under the sun which there's two issues with that for me one uh i don't know why all those guys were in town i would think that they would be touring and playing shows and stuff like that they're just hanging out but more important yeah and why do they all you know want to line up to hang around with four unknown guys from Winnipeg? But more importantly, you know, Randy's written three volumes of his autobiography. Yeah.

And in any of those three books, he does not mention hanging out with those bands. Burton, who, you know, does tons of interviews and he's very active on Facebook and stuff, he's never mentioned that during that trip to England they were hanging out with any of those bands. If I hung out with the Stones and the Beatles for a week, I'd never shut up about it.

Like how often have we heard about, you know, I don't know, Paul McCartney visits California, hangs with Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys. Like these stories are the stuff of legends. Like absolutely you wouldn't shut up about that, especially a guy who, you you know spins a yarn like uh like these guys like that's you're right now a quick canada cab again very interested in what you have to say about randy bagley which my words now most egregious falsehoods in canadian music since buffy saint marie oh can i just say that okay that's another. That's another one. That's another book, right?

Okay. Lies I've Been Told. No Sugar Tonight, a story about seeing a woman on the streets of San Francisco yelling at her man that he wouldn't be getting any sugar that night? Question mark. Well, maybe that happened. I mean, that's not the kind of thing that, you know,

we can we can really prove one way or another i'm sure he did hear that phrase somewhere and you know turned into a lyric and stuff like that but that's not to me that's not that's where you can say well we're gonna embellish a little bit um but when it comes to actual facts and dates and and you know yeah the fred turner bto thing uh saying that you're hanging out with the Stones in 1967. Those are just flat-out lies, and that's where I have more of an issue. I don't want to nitpick every single thing

that a guy who's in his late 70s misremembers. 80 now. I mean, he was 80 at the time of our recording here. Funny comment from Canada Kev, he wonders aloud, are we going to find out next that Randy Backman is actually Italian? Is that going to be revealed at some point? If it'll get him a free poma pasta,

I'm sure he'll say he's Italian. Oh, you know what? And having, you know, listening to you now, and you make a great point, Randy embellishes. This is without a doubt. Sometimes you can even argue he might tell a little white lie here and there but even having listened to you so eloquently and clearly state the truth on these matters i still love episode 1340 of toronto mic'd with randy backman i'll take it in all its glory but now when i promote it i'll say you also have to listen to episode 1392

with Robert Lawson, author of Wheatfield Empire. I think my favorite part of the interview at the beginning, he asks you what city you're from. Oh, yeah. You're called Toronto Mike. Come on. I should have said I was from winnipeg just to get him excited there you know what the only part we didn't fact check um i'm hoping it was all true

is when he talked about uh playing with the watchman and i know sammy cone winnipeg native um was very excited to hear randy backman you know, talk about playing with them. Because like yourself from Winnipeg, the Watchmen grew up massive fans of Randy Backman and Burton Cummings. And it was a thrill for them. And hopefully they were like the spoons say, tell no lies. Hopefully a lot of honesty there. But Robert, won't be your last visit Because you're going to write a book about Miles Davis

And I can't wait to have you on for that deep dive So thanks for dropping by Great to be here again Mike And that Brings us to See how angry I get when I do that now It's like I used to just say it And then Stu Stone used to

On toast, not to be pre-toast on pandemic fridays the great stew stone oh i saw tony nappo last night outside the horseshoe he uh acts in all the stew stone movies and there's a new one coming out but i digress stew stone would always go hard on it like and that and now i realize that's the only way to go. You're closing out another great chat. You go hard, you go. And that brings us to the end of our 1,392nd show. You can follow me on Twitter and Blue Sky. I'm at Toronto Mike. I know Robert is at Lawson Inc.

Tell me the, is it Lawson Inc.? I-N-C-A. I-N, so it's Inca. Right. Okay. Lawson Inca on Twitter is how you can follow Robert Lawson. Go find that Richard Trapunsky article in the Walrus. It's all about sunrise with some great quotes from FOTM Robert Lawson.

Much love to all who made this possible. That is Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Raymond James Canada, Moneris, Recycle My Electronics, Ridley Funeral, and maybe you in 2024.

Reach out. See you all tomorrow when I'm slumming it with some guy named Rick Emmett, who was in some band named Triumph. Have you heard of this guy, Robert? Sure. Who hasn't? See you all then. See you then. We'll see you next time.