Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Fred Penner Returns: Toronto Mike'd #487

Episode Date: July 12, 2019

Mike catches up with Fred Penner before Fred kicks out the jams.

Welcome to episode 487 of Toronto Mike, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Propertyinthe6.com, Alma Pasta, Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair, StickerU.com, and Capadia LLP CPAs. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com, and joining me this week to kick out the jams is the legend in a pork pie hat, Fred Penner. Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike. Welcome back. Indeed. Thank you so much.

The first time you're coming over, I'm so intimidated because the great Fred Penner's coming over. And then today I was like, oh, my old buddy Fred's coming by. There we are. There we are. Second time. This is only the second time. Second time, right. Love the first time. So let me just tell listeners right off the bat that if they want to to like revisit the deep dive with fred penner because we talked about everything so here's the exact description i wrote at the time in this 244th episode mike chats with fred penner about the cat came back

fred penner's place tippy tails i still i still sing that Courage is Waiting song all the time. Whenever my five-year-old bumps his knee or something and he's, I don't know, it hurts and he's crying and I'll do the bear thing, you know, Courage is Waiting by your side. Yeah, sweet. Good for you. No, I love it. And what else? Hold on. And Hear the Music and More. And that was, yeah, that was a great episode. So thanks for returning returning i'm glad this worked out yeah i just did a series of shows at the coal mine theater out on danforth east this week and so it's a small theater like 70 70 80 80 people if you've ever been there it's the other side of the world from here but oh i was in east york two days ago so i feel like yeah but um it is the other side of the world

from here you're right but uh your crowd is it the kids or is it the parents like or is it a hybrid it's it's well it's connecting with the kids certainly but it starts with the parent or the grandparent because they're the ones who the they're the caregivers they have to bring the uh the children to the show they can't make it on their own and so many of the connections have been with those parents who grew up with me and they just really want their kids

to experience what they had, so I'm very honored that people do that, really Well even this morning I got a tweet from Amber who said that she saw you at the Chikada? Am I saying that right? Chikada?

Sea ice. Cicada. Cicada? Cicada. Cicada. Yeah, that was last year in, yeah, just south of Toronto, Niagara area, I think. And she burst into tears when you smiled at her. So she literally, like she said, what did she write?

She wrote, rarely has my heart felt so full. So you smiled at her, and she was in tears. And that was it. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. One of the, I mean, the bottom line is the kids who were watching Fred Penner's Place, you know, from 85 to 97, that's when that ran. Almost 1,000 episodes. you know from 85 to 97 that's when that ran almost a thousand episodes i mean connected with a lot of

of young people a lot of a lot of children and you know parents would use that as their babysitter you know plop the kid down because they they trusted me and they trusted the show and they liked the energy etc etc but because and here's the, because that time of life is the most vulnerable and creative time of a child's development. I mean, personality is built in the first five, six years, you know, of existence. So if the kids are watching that on a daily basis, then in some bizarre little way, I'm getting into their DNA. You know, I'm really becoming a permanent part of their awareness, really. Fred, people light up. My youngest daughter's daycare teacher heard you were coming over, Fred Penner, and she

lit up like a Christmas tree. It was like Fred Penner. It's like, oh my God. I could have said, Obama's coming by. It wouldn't get that kind of reaction. You know what I mean? So this is great power you have. I suppose.

With great power comes great responsibility. I try not to think of it in those terms because I do what I do because it feels important to me, because I've learned over my lifetime the value of music in a human's world. Right. And I, and I, I just do my best as consistently as I possibly can and keep at it, you know. Now we're going to kick out the jams, but a little catch up off the top.

Like, for example, since you were last here, you've, you've, you've done a lot of stuff. For example, uh, Brian wants to let you know that he loved you've you've done a lot of stuff for example uh brian wants to let you know that he loved you uh being the subject of a cavendish episode oh right right but more a lot of cavendish stuff like dan said he'd like to hear about uh your episode of cavendish and how it was pitched to you so i thought let me play a little clip of episode three here of cavendish and then tell us how that came to be. So Cavendish. You've got to be proud of the people around you. Proud of the things that you've experienced.

Proud of your dreams and feelings inside and never... Andy, what the hell is this, man? Morning, Mark. What do you think? I think Dad is going to be furious because this is a whole different place. Exactly. It's a place where families can have fun and learn. And it centers around a great Canadian icon. He means Fred Penner, the statue.

Yeah, sorry to piece that together on my own, but thank you, Brynn. Andy, where is Dad's stuff? Where's the sarcophagus? Where's the squirrel? The stuff's in storage. And as for the squirrel, Brynn? The squirrel is safe. The squirrel is safe. It's incredible, right? Oh, yeah. Brynn made up some new flyers. Show them the flyers, Brynn.

Come get a Freducation. All right, did they somehow pull all of this off in one night? It's like something's calling to me, saying, you gotta finish this. Finish this exhibit, right? Oh, and the Fred tribute, that's just the beginning. I'm gonna redo this entire floor. Yeah. Interactive exhibits, family fun.

Welcome to the fun zone, Mark! The fun zone. That's what I'm gonna call it. Hey, did you know that Velcro was invented in Canada? I didn't know that. For educational. Doesn't apply here, Brent. I'm also gonna get rid of that stupid UFO and put in a ball pit.

Okay, well, kids like UFOs, Andy, if that's what you're after. And you can't just fill a dirt hole with balls and call it a ball pit. Sure you can. You get your balls, you get your pit. That's a ball pit. That's not... Fred-utainment. Holy hell, Bryn, if it's not a Fred-related thing, you can't use a Fred pun. Now, I know I'm mad at Andy and I'm sort of taking it out on you, but I gotta know that that's clear. So how the heck did that come to be uh what was the phone call you know the the guys who the two main uh main actors really wonderful comedic and fun uh fun characters and they uh the the series

called me up and and said that they were looking at, you know, as they're developing a show, this idea popped into their brains. And the idea was these two guys, their dad owns a museum. And the museum is run down. It's not really generating any energy. So the dad's away for a holiday. So the boys get to do something. And the one boy comes up with this idea,

well, let's build a Fred Penner statue and make it into a family fun zone, as you heard. But where it gets crazy is the statue, it's a little weird and has a resemblance to a not pleasant pirate who used to live in the area. Okay. And this pirate energy gets into the guy and turns him into a little bit of a violent character

where he's wanting to hurt people. And it gets into that direction. Interesting. It is interesting and then the turning point of the whole thing is you know he's about to cause some harm and the other brother says stop, stop, stop. What would Fred Penner do? You know the question is asked and suddenly he goes into this this this reverie but it's almost like a like a real-time flashback to let's actually go and see what fred pennant would say oh wow you know so it's a neat little scene and and so i'm um you know it's as if you had a computer in front of you

and and you dialed me up and and we had a little conversation. Is this a good thing to do? The question came out. And I would say, well, no, you don't hurt people. Right. So I give the Fred Penner advice. Take care of each other. Don't hurt each other. Be proud of who you are. I mean, all of the messages that are there.

And it brings him out of his perverted little twist there. But it's a funny, funny episode. I really enjoyed it. Now, all the Canadians listening, I think that's most of my listeners, although I think Amber actually is in upstate New York. You're a big fan there. But you can go to CBC Gem right now

and stream this episode. It's free on Gem. Yep. And there's a dozen or so episodes of Fred Penner's Place that are available through the children's side of the gem world. Yeah, so people are finding, I think at this point, as that generation, as the Fredheads of the 80s, are now growing up and finding their own creative paths,

and they think, oh yeah, this was part of my life back then. Let's see if we can get Fred to do something with us. I guess you saw it probably too, but the Mr. Rogers documentary? I've not seen it yet. People have talked about it. It's on my short list and I need to watch it soon.

I was thinking though, watching this documentary, I'm thinking we need some aspiring young Canadian filmmakers to give Fred Penner the same treatment. Like you deserve that same treatment. It is in, like it's imminent. Now I have a videographer from Winnipeg.

His name is Aaron Floresco, who's been working on videography stuff for me for the last many years. We did a mini doc for CBC a while back and a major 45 minute doc will be coming out this summer. Like on, on gem on CBC. And I'm sure it'll be available on gem at some point,

but yeah, so it's getting close with interviews with, with, with family, friends. Yeah. So it's, it will be around soon.

Fred Penner doc. No great news. Now. So Fred Penner's place, which again, we went deep into this at your last time so i won't make you repeat everything obviously because you'd be here for four hours but uh i do have some questions like silly questions really but like one real serious one is brian smith wants to know whose idea was the log and the set for the show

i'll i'll take full credit for that. This would probably never happen again, but when the friendly giant was at the end of his CBC time, they were looking to develop a new series. I had been touring in the first part of the 80s, the first four or five years, across the country, and CBC was looking for a replacement. And after seeing the music that I was playing

and where I was going, the festivals, and the energy that I was putting out on stage, they thought, hey, this may be a good idea. So I got a phone call out of the blue. There was nothing that I had ever aspired towards, but Dodie Robb, who was the then head of children's television, she contacted me and said, I'm Dodie Robb, we're looking at doing this, would you be interested?

And I was, yes. No-brainer. It was pretty much a no-brainer, but I said, what do you want me to do? Because they did not have a concept. They just were going to pull me in. And I said, I would love to do it. And Dodie said, well, just think about it. What would you like to do?

Put it completely in my lap. And I started thinking and going back. And as I do when I'm creating, I went back to my childhood. I thought about the things that were important to me. I thought about being in scouts where you're going down a path and marking a path so you know how to reverse your path. And trees recognize that tree, recognize this. And so the ultimate thing was life is a journey.

Life is a physical journey. And the log to crawl through a log into a special creative place is both physical and metaphysical as a trip. And so I came up with the log idea, and the natural environment was my idea. One of the early writers, Pat Patterson, who wrote for Children's Television, CBC, for years, she came up with Word Bird,

and we just collaborated. And that was the beginning. Now, I listened to the CBC radio documentary. So the one where you're looking for the set. So tell me a little bit about this. Because you were basically, the premise is that we were to help you find the missing pieces from the Fred Penner's Place set. It was tragic and unfortunate. The series ended in 1997, and I wasn't expecting it to end.

It just sort of hit the wall, ground to a halt, and pieces just disappeared. They changed direction. And so I didn't know what I was going to do. It was a very confusing transition, certainly. And a few years later, I heard that. And I took a few pieces with me. I have, you know, little bits and stuff. I have the word bird.

I have the backpack. I have the guitar case. You know, things that were more personal right are still with me but uh but then i wondered what happened what happened to the what happened to the guitar cave what happened to the log what happened to right and uh and so we i had heard and i actually had seen some of the pieces at a tree farm north of Winnipeg in woodlands that a fellow had just scooped because he thought it was important. That's what I was looking for because I saw them and there was nothing that I could do with them because they're big pieces of styrofoam and wire. And so this program on CBCc the here and now was to try

and see if anybody knew where they were if anybody from the series had picked up stuff had you know had been able to do that right and uh and we we came close we actually found the direction where they were but somebody else had bought the farm and stuff was just thrown away. So it was, yeah, and no, I mean, no sour grapes, certainly, because it was an amazing 13-year run. And it's sort of exciting that people are still thinking, whatever happened to, it keeps it alive somehow. Like I heard, okay, so you mentioned the word bird, but like Wes Chasen wants to know how high was the word bird.

He wants to know the height of the word bird. The height of the word bird? how high was the word bird he wants to know the height of the word bird the height of the word how high was the word bird i guess is the question is for an answer and you're not talking in in contemporary terms how how high was the word bird well maybe he is no the i i mean the he was as high as the the studio went you know it was only sometimes he would he would be low to the ground and he and come around a corner and flip the word to me or, or just drop it from above. Right now,

Brian wants to know if he goes back and watch, he shouldn't, it sounds like he can go to gem right now and watch a Fred Penner's place. Absolutely. If you go back and watch old episodes as an adult, will there be jokes that people would have missed when they were kids? Oh, there's a good question. Who knows?

Possibly. There may have been some things along the way. I mean, I spoke to the camera, and this is really critical. It sort of goes back to an earlier question about how deeply kids felt about watching the show is the idea when i was doing the show was that camera is the eye to one child not two thousands this is from me to you only so so you felt that i was talking to you and i was and so the the idea was um oh where's the question now what was the what was that yeah yeah no hey no worries uh he wants to

know if there's any inside jokes i guess that adults would get that kids would not get i i didn't condescend in in the in the conversation i i spoke as really as straight as I'm talking to you. It would be about universal topics. Oh, I've got something to show you. Come on over here. There's this instrument or this story that I want to tell you or this whatever, this prop that I want to share with you.

I didn't specifically try and throw anything in that would be wink, wink, nudge, nudge to the parents. So no, not really. A long way around for that answer. No, take as long as you want. Duotang Clan, that's a great handle. He wants to know if you ever got stuck in the log. No, it was a custom log.

And so I fit quite nicely. Interesting thing about the log, if you want to go in there for a moment very the the theme that i wrote ding ding ding ding ding ding very you know simple nice little melody and i wrote it in the key of d and when i was doing the very first episode i crawled into the log for the first time. And I'm waiting in the log. It's got some carpeting on it, so I don't chafe my legs too badly. And I'm getting ready. I know exactly what I'm going to do for this first episode. I know the songs. I've got a sense of where it's going. And the theme starts playing. And I swear that all of a sudden, the entire log started to pulsate.

It started to vibrate sympathetically in the key of D. And to this day, it was an amazing moment. It was, oh, that's good. That feels good. There's good energy there. Exactly. And so the, the,

the, the, the, the song that I never got stuck in the log, but, but it was such an iconic connection with the audience that I, I always felt really, really proud of myself that I was able to come with that idea.

Let me see if I have this. Hold on. Let me. Oh, here we go. Nature of things coming up next. By the way, feel free, anytime you want to strum along on that ukulele, you are the first guest in Toronto Mic'd History to play live because, in fact, let me play it now, actually.

So because of this, and I'm going to play this and then I have a song that you wrote I'm going to play. But here's the jingle. Property in the six dot com. So you started strumming along to this. Oh, did I? Yeah, I know.

And it's. Brian's going to love that. Are you kidding me? Oh, C. Good, good old C. What is that again we got about 25 seconds left in this guy i'm gonna play it through i can't even speak over it mr penner's playing amazing thank you so much okay so property in the six.com. I played that for Brian Gerstein. So Brian is a Toronto real estate representative. Oh, yeah. An honest guy, great guy, massive Raptors fan.

So he's still riding that high. But if you call Brian at 416-873-0292, he'd love to chat with you if you're looking to buy and or sell in the next six months. As you've heard recently, he's doing a bunch of leases too. So it's not just buying or selling. It's also leases. So Brian Gerstein is a real estate sales representative with PSR Brokerage.

So thank you, Brian. So that song came from, that's Ill Vibe, but we had the great Fred Penner strumming along. Here's a song I want to ask you about that you'll know, but let's hear it. Oh yeah. The road of life

Will twist and turn And maybe we'll lose our way But faith and hope Are always there We'll see you next time. Side by side Doing what must be done Building a house A brick at a time Under the moon and sun Under the moon and sun Somebody believes in Somebody believes in

Somebody believes in Somebody believes in you Fred, tell me about Somebody Believes. What inspired this great song? That's a whole program. I went to Africa about a dozen years ago to Zambia as part of the World Vision encouraging the Western world to sponsor children. We spent some time at a little village called Kolomo in Zambia,

not far from Livingston. And so I've had a connection with World Vision over these years. And a few years, probably about three years now, I was at a support program or a support event in Vancouver for World Vision. And at this event, I met a young man named Edgardo from the Philippines who had been saved by the World Vision experience. They had been in the Philippines. He came from poverty.

They brought him up, and he now is a wonderful, successful human being and a great, great energy. But he gave a presentation at this event. And one of the lines that he said in the course of it was, somebody believed in me. That's why I am here today. And I thought, that's a great line. And hearing this story, so I went back to my hotel room

and I wrote this song in probably an hour. Wow. And then years later, it finally went through a creative process with my sideman and engineer, Paul O'Neill, a fabulous musician. And we created this for public consumption. There's a beautiful video that goes with it. If you go to YouTube and look up Somebody Believes, and you'll see this wonderful video.

You can find it on your website, too? I don't think it's on the... We're going through some website transition here, but it may be there now, yes. Anyway, so that was the thing, and we brought in some great, great players. The duo that you hear at the beginning is a young uh guitarist by

the and vocalist by the name of joey landreth who's making incredible waves and um anyway we brought in some fabulous people it was uh it was a great event to be part of and uh and i felt it was outside of me much of it really amazing really. Amazing. So, well, great message and wonderful song, too. Thank you. Excellent. Thank you. I think there's an important message, particularly in this wacky day and age here.

I know. I was going to say, we need Fred Penner now more than ever. It's like, where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio? Yeah. Don't leave us, Fred. Are you kidding me? No, don't leave us fred are you kidding me no don't leave us now but i'm doing my best here now i want to let the people know uh when i was on the website and taking in this great song for example i saw that okay you're i i only care about i mean i love

canada i'll be in vancouver next month i love canada and i have listeners all over the country but primarily in ontario because it's so Toronto-centric, this show. So I can tell the people here that on July 20th and July 21st you're at the Home Country Music and Art Festival in London, Ontario. Correct. And

if I'm wrong, you've got to blame your web guy. Okay? Poor gal. August 11th, you're... Oh, it's worth the drive, everybody. August 11th, you're in downtown Acton at the Leather Town Festival. Yes. Acton, Ontario. It's worth the drive to Acton.

And on August 18th, you're at the Peterborough Folk Festival. And you'll never guess where that is. That's in Peterborough. Imagine how awkward it would be if it was somewhere else. Like, why did you name it the peterbrook folk festival so bring your kids bring your grandkids to enjoy fred penner and just do it and you'll be wearing a pork pie hat i will probably that particular hat that i have in front of me how many do you own i've got about a dozen you know different types of uh types of hats that i you know there's a a winter version and a fall version.

Of course. But this one is a great, it's just a great old, it's getting a little beat up. But that's when it looks best. It's got some character to it. I like it. That's when it peaks. You want it to be like used and loved and to have that.

Exactly. That's what you want. So amazing, amazing. Now I got some gifts for you before we kick out the jams. By the way, during your jams, I don't know if you've ever heard a kick out the jams episode,

but we start to play your song and I'll play it like we did with that one actually. And then I'll bring it down and then I'll kind of say whatever. This is whatever. And then you can share with us like why do you love this song?

Yep. What does it mean to you? You betcha. And you can do anything you want. This is the Fred Penner show. So if you want a strum and a ukulele, if you and you can do anything you want this is the fred penner show so uh if you want a strong on a ukulele if you don't do whatever you want please but let me give you some gifts okay local craft brewery great lakes well they're called great lakes brewery on twitter they're great lakes beer because brewery is hard to spell and hard to say

but uh they're fiercely independent and they want you to take home this fresh six-pack of their local craft beer. They're Etobicoke-based. You can find them in LCBOs and in some grocery stores. So thank you, Great Lakes Brewery. Brewed for you, Ontario six-pack. That's not it because that's actually an empty box. But Palma Pasta, in my freezer upstairs, please don't leave. Please make sure you don't leave.

Please make sure you don't leave without it. Okay. Do you prefer, if I were to give you a frozen large lasagna from Palma Pasta, would you like meat or veggie? Putting you on the spot here is a tough one. No, probably meat. You know, a nice meat lasagna, you bet. But you never know nowadays. You could tell me now you're a vegetarian my wife and i went to italy a number of years ago

we went to bologna and we did a this unbelievable session with a fellow named stefano who has a restaurant in bologna and we learned how to make bolognese right see a better bellable you're making me hungry the real and and we we did, like, this is the real deal. So we now make the Bolognese, and then we'll make cauliflower pasta. If you folks haven't done this, try it. If the heaviness of a regular pasta is too much, you just mix, you sort of grain cauliflower,

mix it with some egg, a little bit of moisture, and you cook that and make it into strips as you would any lasagna. And it is out of this world. I'm glad to hear you're an Italian food fan. Now, the family-run business, Palma Pasta, so they, in fact, Anthony, who I speak of often, his parents came from Italy

and they brought their recipes with them when they started this. So it's the real deal. Mississauga and Oakville, they have four locations. Go to palmapasta.com to find out a location near you. And you can also find them on Skip the Dishes if you want to give them a go, but they're fantastic. So Fred, I got the lasagna for you. Stickeryou. find them on Skip the Dishes if you want to give them a go. But they're fantastic. So Fred,

I got the lasagna for you. StickerU.com. They're in Liberty Village. So you got yourself some like fun stickers. I've got some stickers. I've got four Canada NTO mics. Mic'd.

I've been mic'd. Toronto mic'd. That's actually a temporary tattoo. Oh yeah, that's what is great. Of course. You need to do that. A Toronto mic sticker, which for you, that's what is great. Of course. You need to do that. A Toronto Mike sticker,

which for you, that's like a memento of your... And I'll flap it on my guitar. It's a sticker, right? It's a sticker, yeah. It's a great sticker.

I'll put it on my guitar case. Oh, that would blow my mind if you did that. What's AGIT? Okay, so Agitpop is the new album from Lowest of the Low. They're a Toronto-based band.

They're fantastic. Oh, okay. And this is a sticker for their album release that StickerU put together for my recent event, TMLX3, which Lowest of the Low played. Oh, nice. Oh, I envision Fred Penner playing a future Toronto Mic listener experience,

but we'll talk about that later. I'll talk to your agent about that. Right. But StickerU.com if you want to get, you know, one or as many as you like of anything you stick so like decals temporary tattoos buttons uh stickers of course uh they're fantastic these decals came from there you've got that that's called a pop socket okay that goes on the back of your phone and then it holds it up so you can watch your screen this is uh all the kids are digging these pop sockets yeah yeah i've seen them that seen them. That's courtesy of Capadia LLP.

Rupesh Capadia is an accountant who sees beyond the numbers. I refer to him as the rock star accountant. So you, Fred, or anyone you know and love, I can arrange for you to get a free complimentary consultation with Rupesh. If you have any business ideas, he can give you best practices. Again, he sees beyond the numbers. But let's hear a message from Rupesh. If you have any business ideas, he can give you best practices. Again, he sees beyond the numbers. But let's hear a message from Rupesh Kapadia. Hey, hey, hey, this is Rupesh here.

And for all these condo buyers who are buying condos like that, there is no tomorrow. Please be aware. If you are going to assign the rights to your condominium to any new buyer, you will have to charge HST. And HST would not only be charged on the money that you're making on the assignment, but

also on the deposits that you have paid. So please be aware. And if you're not sure what to do with it, please call us before you make this decision. You can call Rupesh or one of my associates and we'll be happy to hold your hand and walk you through the process. You can reach us at any time between 9.30 and 5.30. Thank you. Very good.

Thank you, Rupesh. Okay, one last thing here. This is fun. We're going to go in the time machine and I'm going to play a jam that was number one on the Billboard Hot 100 40 years ago this week. So you ready to go in the time machine? All right. 40 years ago. I'm glad you're home

Now, baby, you miss me I guess you did By the look in your eyes We'll be back in the last I'll have away the tissues And you can have a good time You can ring my bell Ring my bell

You can ring my bell Ring my bell Fred Penner, you can ring my bell Ring my bell Fred Penner, You Can Ring My Bell. That was Ring My Bell by Anita Ward. Did you ever catch Saturday Night Fever? Not the movie, but the fever. Did you ever go out dancing with your bell-bottoms? No, I did have a bell-bottoms jumpsuit.

Oh, there's a vision. I envision a CBC documentary where you try to hunt down your old bell bottoms. Where are they at now? Yeah, really old. It was a jean jumpsuit, long gone. Sounds like it would be hot in the summertime. But why am I playing a song from 40 years ago? Because Remember the Time is brought to you by fast time watch and jewelry repair they've been doing quality watch and jewelry

repairs for over 30 closer to 40 years uh if you go to fast time watch repair.com you can find a location near you if you mention you heard about them on toronto mic they'll give you 15 off your watch battery installation. So just say, Hey, I heard you on Toronto. I heard about you on Toronto Mike. Then you get 15% off your watch battery installation.

So visit fast time, watch repair.com. All right, Fred, no, the weight waiting is over here. The last question for you before we kick this off is, are you ready to kick out the jams?

Yes. I'm ready. I'm ready. Melodies of melodies allergies to dust and rain Allergies to dust and rain Maladies, remedies

Still these allergies remain My hands can't touch a guitar string My fingers just burn and ache My head it deceives with my bodily needs And my body won't give it a break My heart can't stand a disaster My heart can't stand a disaster. My heart can take a disgrace. But my heart is allergic to the women I love.

And it's changing the shape of my face. Allergies, allergies. Something's living on my skin. Dr. B, Dr. B Dr. B Open up it's me again If I go to a famous physician

I sleep in the local hotel All Simon, allergies Tell me why you love this jam All Simon, Allergies. Tell me why you love this jam. Oh, there's a guitar player on. Well, there's a couple of things. I love Paul Simon. This was an album called Hearts and Bones,

which was previous to Graceland. Right. It's a lesser known album. There's a guitar player on this particular track. His name is Al DiMeola. And Al DiMeola is just this really hot, unbelievable player. A little bit of a hot dog.

He plays a few too many notes, but this song has just, it just got inside of me. I love the groove. I love the feel. Towards the end, we'll be getting into this pattern that I, this is a go-to album. Oh, tip me off when you want me to pump it up again.

I will indeed. And anyway, and Paul suffered from calcium deposits on his fingertips. It's a lesser known thing where you play so much that the pads that you get go right to the center of the bone. And you can't play the guitar string. Sounds painful. Here we go. I can't breathe. Isn't that pretty?

Yeah. Yeah. See what I mean? I mean, it's really, it's beautiful, clean, clean playing. And at the end of it, it goes into that same kind of pattern. But the bass matches, like everybody comes together to make this really unbelievable ending. So, I mean, it's Paul Simon.

And this track just, for whatever reason, it came into my world. And I'm glad you chose it because you're right. This album's been overlooked because Graceland comes out later in the decade and people forget, oh, there's other Paul Simon

1980s material out there. So great choice. Absolutely. A question, while Paul wraps up here, the question from Mark David is, what are your thoughts on modern music?

It's vast. I mean, what are your thoughts on modern music? It's vast. I mean, there are so many great. I would like people to listen to more music than just this one genre they may connect with. Because music is so vast. It's really important to have that diversity in your sound. And that's the way it was when I was growing up. Actually, we're heading into this. Yeah, bring it up now to the camera.

That nice little slide. Yeah, it's like a plane taking off. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's really an amazing song. I love the tune. All right, you ready for your second jam? Shooter. The album cut. The Album Cut.

Leonard Cohen. Jennifer Warnes. Famous Blue Ring Coat is the album. Brilliant album and brilliant Cohen work. They sentenced me to 20 years of boredom but trying to change the system from within I'm coming now, I'm coming

to reward them First we take Manhattan to reward them First we take Manhattan Then we take Berlin I am guided by a signal in the heavens I'm guided by a signal in the heavens I'm guided by the birthmark on my skin

I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons First we take Manhattan Then we take Berlin First we take Manhattan by Jennifer Warren Yeah, Leonard Cohen poetry. I mean, where he went in his lifetime, it just blows my mind how deep he got into his topics. And you listen to this stuff, and if you do the analysis on Cohen's work, it's very intense. I mean, he really understood poetry to the max.

And Jennifer Warren's, I mean, I love her voice. And there's a couple of other tracks on here which didn't make the short list. But there's one called The Singer Must Die, which is a... There's a... It's not quite a cappella, but there's a choir in it.

And the harmonies. Leroy Van Pyke from L.A., who's a vocal arranger, does stuff there. Anyway, I've always been a poetic soul. I tend to write my lyrics before I write my music, and I've always known Leonard Kornberg. There's a couple of stories about his stuff that go back a long way. And did you ever have the pleasure of talking to Leonard?

No. Two great Canadian icons, never met? He had a couple of years on me and traveled in different circles. No, we never connected personally, but certainly I'm a great fan of his work. Speaking of great Canadian icons, there was a funny picture I saw on Twitter the other day, and it basically said is Fred Penner, are Fred Penner and Red Green the same person?

Steve Smith, who's of course Red Green. I don't know if you saw this. There was a picture where you couldn't quite tell whether it was Fred Penner or Steve Smith, who's of course red-green. I don't know if you saw this. There was a picture where you couldn't quite tell whether it was Fred Penner or Steve Smith, and I thought that was very funny. That's been played with a couple of times all the way. I have met Steve, and he's a lovely, funny him and his wife.

Moraga? I'm trying to remember. I remember Smith and Smith. Morag? Morag, right. I used to watch Smith and Smith back on CHCH. I remember Smith and Smith. Morag. Morag, right. Morag, that's it. I used to watch Smith and Smith back on CHCH. It was a great show. Yeah, it was great. He really did some fabulous work.

I mean, he brought gaff tape into the 21st century. Right, he said all you need is WD-40 to undo everything and you need duct tape to do everything up. Those are the only two things you need. Fantastic. Fantastic. Okay. Here's a little band. Let's hear your third jam. I look at all the lovely people I look at all the lovely people All the lonely people Where do they all come from?

All the lonely people Where do they all belong? Father McKenzie Wow, Eleanor Rigby. It's not, you know, I mean, everybody needs to know this song, intimately. It's just, well, I mean,

what I love about, it's the Beatles, and the Beatles will always be the most influential group that I ever knew. And so much has come from their work that influenced thousands, I'm sure, thousands of other performers.

How do you pick one Beatles song? Like, I can, of course, Beatles have to be there, but which one do you choose? It depends on your mood, right? Truly. Again, this has that melancholy to it. And the story that you hear about this. And look at all the lonely people. And if you are aware of the world around you,

you see loneliness and sadness and hurt that is there. What George Martin, of course, The Beatles would not be The Beatles without George, but this album has no bass guitar in it. It's only a string quartet. I thought. And I've noticed from all your jams that you have your ear for the strings, like the strings, perhaps they jump out at you, potentially. Well, no.

I'm psychoanalyzing you after three songs, but yeah, your jams are your jams. But what do you say about the Beatles? It's a fantastic song, but a fantastic band. I just re-watched a movie called Across the Universe with Jim Sturgis and a fabulous cast. Have you seen that movie? Yes, I did see it back like 10 years ago.

Yeah, I think so. But if you are a Beatles fan but it if you're if you are a beatles fan even if you're not it's a really good story and it and it and it gives a framework for where many of these songs could have come from and it fits in beautifully have you seen this a new movie i haven't seen it yet but yesterday have you heard this no i've i've read about it i've seen uh i've seen the trailer yeah the really good. It's great, and I'm really excited about seeing that. What if the Beatles had never existed? Yes, right.

What if the Beatles never existed, but you happen to remember all the Beatles songs? It's a great premise, right? It really is. Here, let's kick out another jam. Bonnie Raitt. Voice on the phone Fever turns To cold, cold sweat Thinking about things That we ain't done yet

Tell me now I gotta know Do you feel the same? Do you just light up At the mention of my name? Don't worry baby Ain't nothing new That's just love

Speaking up on you If the whole world is shaking Feel like I do That's just love Speaking up on you Hey, hey, hey, hey. Nowhere on earth for your heart to hide. Once love comes sneaking up on your blind side.

And might as well Just stop the rain Stand in the track Love sneaking up on you, Bonnie Raitt. Yeah, I saw Bonnie. I mean, I've always been a huge Bonnie Raitt fan. And her slide work is just... I don't play slide. It's just eluded me a little bit along the way.

I'm more the rhythm and occasional lead kind of guy, but I admire Bonnie's style. I saw her at Winnipeg at the Burton Cummings Theatre about a year ago, and she just comes out, and she's, I'm sure, you know, in her 60s now, I'm sure in the 60s now. And she is so gorgeous and powerful. And she gets on stage and her whole band, it's so cohesive. And she gets out and she just nails these songs and puts this beautiful strength into it. I admire performers who are capable of doing that. They really know what they're doing.

And there's entertainment. The music level is second to none. Bonnie Raitt, check her out if you can. She's still got that fiery hair, right? Yeah, yeah. And it's that confidence. There's a song that my daughter did that we'll hopefully play later spoiler alert

but seeing strong female performers is really important for us to see because we're going through such a stupid, stupid transition right now. But the awareness of women and the strength of women, let's give this kind of power some credence here. And Bonnie Raitt rocks.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, her players. Oh, yeah. Take your silver spoon Dig your grave Take your breath God bless the chairlift Pick your breath and now pray Wake up in the morning See your sunrise And your love's both down

There's the hook. Man. Thousands of lovers Pick their prey But they never cry out loud And the lyric coming up here is just so perfect and powerful. Well, did she make you cry, make you break down, shatter your illusions of love? Shatter your illusions of love And is it over now? Do you know how To pick up the pieces and go home?

Pick up the pieces and go home? Are you kidding? Are you kidding? Speaking of women who rock This is Fleetwood Mac Gold Dust Woman It's so simple You know Mick

When they were working on this album, there was such mayhem happening with the band. There were relationships that were building, that were falling down. It was such an incestuous little thing that was happening. But he required that the entire band live in a house, not sure where, a castle rather. And that's where they built a house, not sure where, where a castle rather. And that's where they built the song,

recorded the album. And so everybody brought energy to it. You know, she make you cry, make you break down, shatter your illusions of love. That's what the whole energy of this group was about. And this, Rumors, is one of the best best albums ever and one of the biggest commercial successes ever it's always on those top 10 albums sold list rumors yeah yeah yeah wow have you ever seen fleetwood Mac perform live?

No, I've never seen them perform live. The closest I came was the theater that I played at recently out on Danforth East. It's called Coal Mine, and they do a lot of really, really beautiful small theatrical productions. It's only like less than 100. But last year they did Rumors on stage. They hired great, great musicians.

And they did the entire, this entire album from beginning to end. And it was perfect. I mean, they did a great job. And so that's the closest I've came to actually seeing Fleetwood Mac. I know their music. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.

Ouch. guitar solo Are you kidding? Huh? I'm not wasting nights wondering, trying to figure out. Maybe if I'm quiet, maybe if I'm light, or maybe I'll be something, someone you would like. If I'm smaller and if I'm different, just a little less, would you love me? If I wasn't this, with some bigger lips and some smaller hips, would you love me? It's an overdone obsession with chasing what I'm not And something I've been hiding The space I'm taking up And slouching in my shoulders

And curving in my back Afraid that all the space I'm in Is just too much to have If I'm smaller and If I'm different Just a little less Would you love me If I wasn't this with some bigger hips and some smaller hips, would you love me?

And I can't change what just stays the same so i keep trying to love me i know i'm hating on my mother i'm disrespecting that by spending nights trying to change the way I am And tearing at my structure Pulling at my skin Just wishing I was smaller and different And I'm spitting on the people who love me just like this Who don't wish that I was smaller or less of anything And I'm yelling in my silence So make the voices stop and let me sleep in quiet not thinking that I ought to be smaller and different just a little love so you can love me

me with none of this and some bigger lips and some smaller hips so you can love me. And I can't change what just tastes the same. But I keep trying to love me how I'm made How I'm made How I'm made How I'm made If I'm smaller and if I'm different Just a little ice would you love me

If I wasn't this with some bigger lips And some smaller hips would you love me You must be so proud. Oh, I am blown away by that girl's talent. You must be so proud. Oh, I am blown away by that girl's talent. This is my daughter, Hayley. Hayley Jean Penner. Young people, young adults, young women especially, is who she's been working with in L.A. for the last eight years.

She goes into studios and she writes with with these young performers up and coming and she brings out their their song and their energy but um but this and she actually wrote wrote a book recently which will be out in the market at some point called people you meet people you follow sorry people you follow and uh and this this song in particular, Smaller, is such an anthem for the pressure that young women are feeling that if I had less of this or more of that, or if I looked more like that, would you love me if I if I did this would you love me it's such a plea for for for wanting to be appreciated in this world for who you are and if you changed it a little bit if you changed it a little bit and it's so perverted what what we are doing to young people now you know I mean for for young women to to think that that you know Botoxox shots or breast implants or anything is of any value in who they are in this world.

And this song just goes so, so deep, well, obviously, in her perspective on the people that she's dealt with and the whole L.A. scene. So, I mean, I encourage, especially the young women out there, check out Hayley Jean Penner and listen to her stuff because she's speaking some very powerful truth.

Fantastic song. And I felt almost overwhelmed in the middle of that song. I had, I don't know how to, maybe there's a German word for this, but like secondhand pride. It was so gorgeous. And I know it's your daughter, and I just wanted to listen. And then I felt like, oh, Fred must have such pride,

must be so proud of his daughter. And then I thought of my two daughters and about how proud I am of them. And it was like all of a sudden I felt like, I think I'm about to cry. Oh, I was, yeah, I can, I can go there in a, in a blink when I listen to this song. It's the power. No, thank you for putting it on your list. That was, that was fantastic. So again, yes, that was smaller. If you're looking for that song, Hayley Jean Penner penner and again another great uh woman singer songwriter let's hear your next jam so It's coming on Christmas They're cutting down trees They're putting up reindeer

And singing songs of joy and peace Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here, it stays pretty green. I'm gonna make a lot of money, then I'm gonna quit this crazy scene. I wish I had a river I could skate away on. I could skate away on I wish I had a river so long I would teach my feet to fly

I wish I had a river I could get away With you I made my baby I made my baby As if it needs an explanation, why do you love this song? A number of reasons.

Again, that melancholy, I have this part of me that really likes to be taken deep, that likes to bring me to the brink of tears. And I actually saw Joni at a coffee house in Winnipeg called The Fourth Dimension in the 60s. Wow. the fourth dimension in the 60s. Wow.

And she was playing about as far away as I am from you right now, like six, seven feet. And she was Joni Anderson then, because Anderson is her maiden name. Mitchell was her married name. She hadn't married Chuck Mitchell yet. And then after they separated, she just kept his name. And she was this goddess on stage she was in a few years older than I you know but in her early 20s and she got up on this stage with this this face and this again this beautiful female strength and energy and her power she just took over that room and made everybody feel like they were uh in in the sky flying anyway i i i've always loved joni and her talent and her and her

poetry has touched me deeply a long time and this this song uh well, it's River, right? And my daughter sings this every once in a while at Christmas time. And it breaks me again. Yeah. Speaking of songs that can make you cry,

this is right up there. So, amazing. I could skate away on way on Such a release. Isn't that something? Amazing. And straight into Peter Gabriel. Uh-huh. This is somebody I would love to see in concert. Climbing up on Salisbury Hill I could see the city light Wind was blowing, time stood still

Eagle flew out of the night He was something to observe Came in close, I heard a voice standing stretching every nerve I had to listen, had no choice I did not believe

the information just out of trust imagination my heart going boom, boom boom boom son he said grab your things I'm gonna take you home

Peter Gabriel Salisbury Hill the neat thing about Salisbury Hill is he does he does this 3-4 flip back and forth which I just really appreciate him doing that so the counting here is 1, 2, 3, 4

1, 2, 3, 4 1, 2, 3, 4 and then he flips it when he gets to the verse 3, 4, 1, 2,. Three, four, one, two, three, one, two, three, four, one, two, three, one, two, three. One, two, three, one, two, three. I'll never hear this song the same way again. Amazing. Here, listen to it when it turns around.

You listen to it when it turns around. Boom, boom, boom. Hey, he said, grab your things, I'm going to take you home. One, two, three, one, two, three, four. And back. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, one, two, three. You know, so it's a subtle change because the beat's still there, but then the accents are moving around. And it's all...

Peter Gabriel really is one of the masters of musical pattern. Oh, my goodness. Were you a fan of Genesis when he was in Genesis? Or was it just the Peter Gabriel solo stuff that you... A bit on Genesis. Genesis when he was in Genesis? Or was it just the Peter Gabriel solo stuff? A bit on Genesis. I got more into it in the Gabriel world. But boy, he's so incredible.

When you hear somebody who's that connected with their own creative ability, where they can take it to that to that depth it's uh it blows my mind you know and and because he's got that support people will support people with him and his videos are uh through the roof anyway i really love him and i don't say this to all jam kickers, but I really love your list. I really, really dig it. And one of my favorite songs of all time is coming up next, I see. And it's just a great list. Oh, good.

Good. When I announced you were coming on, we had some fun speculating what kind of music you were into. And I was sure you were into Norwegian death metal. Like, I was sure. Well, it didn't quite make the short list. It would have been number 11 exactly. Now the subtlety's in there. There's so much lair happening. Oh, my mama.

Here's a classic for you. Yeah. I pulled into Nazareth Was feeling about half past dead I just need some place Where I can lay my head Hey mister can you tell me Where a man might find a band He just grinned and shook my hand

Lord was all he said Take a load off Fanny Take a load for free Take a load off Fanny And Take a load off planning And you put the load right on me Only one thing makes us better. You know what makes it a little better? One thing.

What? The Staple Singers. I love the version with Mavis Staples and the Staple Singers from songs from the Martin Scorsese doc on the final band performance. And I keep waiting for like Pops to come in. Yeah, yeah.

And I know Mavis just celebrated a birthday. I think she's incredible. Yes. Man, Levon, you know, rest in peace. What a fantastic song

by the band. His grandson is still playing drums and singing and he's touring as well, so you may catch some of the Levon sound along the way. But the fun thing for this is back to the 60s, and the band was always so iconic and incredible,

and musicians learning this tune was, how do you get that chorus straight? Who's going to do what line? Because it's not sort of a normal kind of pattern. You really have to concentrate and find it. But it's one of the greatest pop songs or whatnot, popular music of the 21st century. It's unbelievable. I just think it's a tremendous song I mean I'm not exactly an obscure indie hit that I uncovered here but amazing who's

in here Gord Martineau you remember Gord Martineau from City TV News you remember this you're a winner like Toronto newscaster for. But anyway, he was in the other day and we were talking about he was talking about romping Ronnie Hawkins. We were talking about the Hawks. It was Ron Hawkins and the Hawks. The band was the Hawks. And Dylan took them.

Yeah, exactly. Turned them into the band. The rest is history. And Garth, the keyboard player on this, interesting story about him he he was the only classically trained player in the group his parents spent how much money to you know to teach him to play right to play classically so when he joined the band they they weren't happy that he was doing this and they so garth required that the band members pay him for lessons to learn. Interesting.

So that Garth could go back to his parents and say, no, I'm making money. I'm making money from his bandmates. That's amazing. Yeah. Interesting. And Levon's the only American in the band, right? Everyone else is Canadian.

I think so. I'm not sure if Denko was. I think he's Canadian. I think so. I'm not sure if Danko was... I think he's Canadian. I think you're right. Yeah, I am. But no, Lee Vaughn is just... A great, great, great drummer. And the...

One of those drummer- singer characters. Oh, like Phil Collins. After Peter Gabriel left, it all comes full circle. I'll do it myself now. We need a singer. Phil kind of sounds a bit like

Peter. He can do it. Take a load off, Benny. Take a load free. Take a load off, Benny And you put the load right on me And you put the load right on me Fred, man, I don't know what it is, but it's because I'm hanging out with Fred Penner.

We got the headphones on, but I'm having way too good a time here. Oh, me too. This is great. And I'm sorry it's ending because we have one jam to go. What? Already? Yeah. You ready for your final jam?

Give her. You can play the game and you can act out the part Though you know it wasn't written for you Tell me how can you stand there with your broken heart Ashamed of playing a fool One thing can lead to another It doesn't take any sacrifice Oh, father and mother, sister and brother

If it feels nice, don't think twice Just shower the people you love with love. Show them the way that you feel. Things are gonna work out fine if you only will. Do as I say. Just shower the people you love with love Show them the way you feel Things are gonna be much better

If you only will You can run but you cannot hide This is widely known And what you plan to do with your foolish pride When you're all by yourself alone Once you tell somebody the way that you feel You can feel it beginning to ease I think it's true what they say about this squeaky wheel

Always get in the breeze Better to shout Power the people you love with love Show them the way that you feel I know things are gonna be just fine If you only will But I'd like to do you Shower the people you love with love

Show them the way you feel Things are gonna be much better If you want it will James Taylor. Oh my. Shower the people. Why do you love Shower the People? It's classic

classic James he was one of those musical mentors when I was learning guitar and his picking, his patterns were so great and he does there's an augmented

chord that he goes to. Not every guitar player plays augmented and diminished chords. You get to your major, your minor, your minor sevens, etc. But an augmented chord just adds that one other thing to it. So if you're playing an A7, then you've got the A note on the bass, and then you go to an A sharp, keeping the A7 pattern happening, and then you get that lovely little addition to it. So I really appreciated his musicality and his voice, and again, his style of writing. He goes to the heart, to the core of who he is as a performer.

And he's iconic, of course. And he was a great guest star on a wonderful episode of The Simpsons when Homer went to outer space. So just throwing that out there for Simpsons fans. Oh, I've got to check that out. Yeah, you've got to dig that classic up. Now, just to remind everybody in Ontario here that you're, okay, July 20, which is, what are we now, 12?

Okay, so that's only like next, not this Saturday, but the one after. Correct. Okay. That's London, Ontario. Yeah, and actually I'm playing the main stage at 6 o'clock on the Friday, the 19th? Oh. Yes, and then on the Saturday as well on the 20th.

So the 19th and 20th. Okay, because your website says 20th and 21st. Well, that's when the whole festival is. Oh, okay, your 19th and 20th. But my specific timing is Friday night at 6 o'clock. Okay, August 11th is the Worth the Drive to Acton for the Downtown Acton Leather Town Festival. And you'll be playing there.

And then Peterborough again. That's August 18 at the Peterborough Folk Festival. Great festival. The natural environment. There's a beautiful hill that goes up that holds thousands of people. And at the bottom of the hill is this lovely stage. Sounds amazing.

It's a good festival. I hope to see you there, good people. Again, thank you so much for coming back to kick out the jams. Dream come true. You were amazing. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you.

And that brings us to the end of our 487th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. You're at Penner Fred. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Fred is, you're at Penner Fred. You flipped it on us there. So at Penner Fred on Twitter. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery

are at Great Lakes Beer. Propertyinthesix.com is at Raptors Devotee. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair is at Fast Time WJR. Sticker U is at Palma Pasta. Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair is at Fast Time WJR. Sticker U is at Sticker U.

And Capadia LLP is at Capadia LLP. See you all next week. Well, I want to take a streetcar downtown Read Andrew Miller and wander around And drink some Guinness from a tin Cause my UI check has just come in Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of rosy and green

Yeah, the wind is cold But the snow wants me to dance And your smile is fine And it's just like mine