Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Freddie P: Toronto Mike'd #34

Episode Date: April 18, 2013

Mike welcomes Freddie P from Humble and Fred to discuss his radio career, the state of terrestrial radio today, the future of Humble and Fred, the Leafs and Rob Ford.

Welcome to the 34th episode of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything, often with a distinctly Toronto flavour. I'm Mike from TorontoMic.com. Joining me is Fred Patterson from the Humble and Fred Show, and hosting this audio file are the good people at Core Fusion. Welcome, Freddie P. are the good people at Core Fusion. Welcome, Freddie P. Michael, I'm thrilled to be here in the Toronto Mic'd studio. Thrilled to have you. As you know, I've told you this before,

but almost every morning of the 90s, when I woke up for high school and university, I woke up to 102.1 and heard Humble and Fred. Well, thank you very much. So I've known you a lot longer than you've known me. I know. And, you know, I hear those stories all the time. As a matter of fact, I told one on our podcast yesterday.

On Sunday, my wife and I, we were at Lazy Boy, the furniture outlet there on Dundas Street, Mississauga. And I went in and this guy, after a while, comes up to me. One of the sales guys there came up to me and said, you know, I know you. Where do I know you from? And I said, well, probably the radio. And I explained, Humble and Freddie said, I loved you guys, listened to you on the edge, and then really, really enjoyed you on Mojo. And I really miss you. And since you guys left, you know, I really haven't been able to settle on another radio show that I really love. And anyway, it was very nice, very complimentary. And when we left, my wife said, that's going to make you feel good. And I said, you know, you think that, but it actually makes me feel sad. Because, you know, I think the Humble and Fred thing ended before its time in Toronto for various reasons. And when I meet a guy like that, I think, you know,

maybe we could still be doing it on that level or in a situation where more people would have access to it. Well, Freddie, I want to get to that. I do want to ask you some questions I have about your radio career and otherwise, and then I have some questions from Toronto Mike readers that left comments today. Perfect. Awesome. And let's start with the spirit of radio.

So the spirit of radio was CFNY out of Brampton, and it's sort of legendary. And people my age in Toronto sort of talk about it now, like this mythical unicorn creature. There was this station, and they only played a song like once a day, and they played all this cool stuff. And it was about the music and about the personalities. And you were a part of that.

So if you don't mind telling me like how you started at CFNY. Well, I got out of college and like a lot of people, I sent out tapes back then. Reel-to-reel tapes, literally. Not even cassettes because they sort of requested you send reel-to-reel, and resumes right across the country. And I had a job offer in Estevan, Saskatchewan, and another one in Nelson, B.C. And for whatever reasons, I didn't take those because I got a job just pushing buttons at CKFH in Toronto,

which is now the Fan 590. Back then it was CKFH 1430. And it at the time was sort of the sports station in town, and that's why I wanted to be there. They had Leaf games. They did Blue Jay games. And then they played music. They also had Bob McCowan's show.

So I worked there with Bob for a while. I actually pushed buttons and turned knobs on his show. But then I wanted to get on air, and the powers that be at CKFH wouldn't let me on the air because I was a kid out of college. So on Bob's advice, he said, you know, you should look around. You should get on air if that's what you want to do. Applied to a station in Brampton called CHIC 790. It was an AM station. And they hired me to do sports.

And I was only there a week or so. And then David Marsden, who was running CFNY, heard me doing sports on the AM station and then thought it would be a good idea if I came over to CFNY as well and read sports. Back then, I don't want to get too involved here, but back then on FM, the spoken word, FM stations had to have a certain amount of spoken word. So at the time, it made sense to bring a sports guy over to this alternative music station. So anyway, not long after I got there, they hired Pete and Geetz. And Pete and Geetz did their morning show. Mike Stafford did the news.

I did the sports. And I think it was a great morning show. And it lasted for about seven or eight years. And believe me, it was the time of my life. I loved it. I loved every minute. Yeah, it sounds like the Pete and Geet show was pretty revolutionary for its time. Absolutely. Ahead of their time, in fact, Pete and Geet were probably the first sort of fun, I hate to use the word wacky and zany, because you hear that all the time. Yeah, morning zoo stuff. But they were the first, I'm going to use the word wacky and zany because you hear that all the time. Yeah, morning zoo stuff.

But they were the first, I'm going to use the word fun FM morning show because FM, it sort of came out of the box all serious and you had to put on the monotone voice and play the real cool music. But they brought as I say, that

fun atmosphere to the morning show and you know, never really that off-color or never that rude. They just did a fun morning show. It was very clever. And, you know, I learned so much being part of that show. So you got certain people you meet of a certain generation that remember the Pete and Geet show, and then you have guys my age who I have no memory of Pete and Geet.

Right. Tom Rivers, I think, was my show at that time on 680. Yeah. But tell me about how they hooked you up with Humble Howard Glassman and what it was like meeting Humble for the first time. Well, Pete and Gates left in 1987, and there was a bit of a culling there of the staff. I survived.

Then they hired Steve Anthony out of Much Music to do the morning show at CFNY. And I loved working with Steve. Um, then they hired, uh, Steve Anthony out of Much Music. Right. To do the morning show at CFNY. And I loved working with Steve. I mean, I really did. I enjoyed my time with him. I learned something from Steve Anthony too. Pretty versatile guy.

But the thing is, I always got the impression that Much Music held more of a priority than CFNY for Steve. So it really didn't last that long. And then after Anthony left, there was a series of morning people that just didn't last long. And then finally, new management came in and said, you know, we have to solidify this morning show. And the program director at the time, Danny Kingsbury, a great, wonderful man

who works for Rogers in Kingston right now. Right. He knew that Howard would be interested maybe in coming to Toronto. So one day I flew to Montreal. Howard was working with Jeff Lumby at the time in Montreal. Lumby didn't want to come to Toronto. I had lunch with Howard. We met for a couple of hours and then we flew home. Danny said to me,

what do you think? And I said, yeah, Howard's a good guy. And he says, I think I'm going to hire him to be the morning man. And I want you to work with him like you have on the morning show for the past few years. And I said, let's do it. And that was the start of the Humble and Fred show. Tell me, you had a short run, I guess, on 102.1, and then you had this, I remember this live, I remember Howard left the station. Yes. He went to 99.9.

Yes. I guess just as it was turning to the mix, I don't know what it was, they called it before mix. Well, Howard was the first guy to say the mix on 99.9. So when he went there, it was CKFM. So what did you think when Humble left you for 99.9? No, I thought it was great. You know, he called me aside one day. Howard's introduction to CFNY wasn't very pretty,

because there was a stable of people there that really wanted to hold on to the past. And Howard sort of represented the new CFNY a little more accessible, a little poppier, a little more with making money in mind, because it had now been acquired by, I think, McLean Hunter at the time. It was a corporation, and that's what they're about, making money. And I mean, that was the reality of it. So there was some that really didn't, they weren't very kind to Howard when he first came. He wasn't sort of included.

So from the moment he got there to the moment he went to CKFM, it wasn't like he was ever really embraced. So when Gary Slade, who owns CKFM, came to him and made him the offer, you know, he was honest with me one day. And he said, listen, Slade has made me this offer. It's a good offer. And he said, you know, I don't think a lot of people here are that into me. So I think I'm going to do this. And I said, hey, I don't blame you. You know, at the time I had a young family. I knew what it was like. You had to think of yourself. You had to think of earning a paycheck and some degree of longevity.

And that's what he had in mind. So I completely endorsed it. And I wished him luck. And as a matter of fact, at the time, I wished I was going with him. But that was never part of the plan. And he came back. Remind me, he came back because how did that come about that he would return to CFNY? Well, he went to CKFM.

It became The Mix. And then yet another regime came into CFNY. At this point, it was, I think, oh, my God, I lose track. It was Selkirk. Or maybe then it was McLean Hunter. I'm not sure. But anyway, we got a general manager came in. His name was Vince DiMaggio. He's since died. Vince came in and there was another culling of the staff. And it was Vince DiMaggio,

along with Stuart Myers, who became the program director at that time, that they were going to hold onto the New Rock thing, that they were going to hold on to the New Rock thing, but they were going to make it New Rock, Pop Rock, Familiar, New Rock. Is this when Madonna showed up on the playlist? No, no, no, no, no. This is after that. After that, okay. Yeah, this is after that. Okay.

They were going to be a New Rock station, and they actually showed me the models. It was in the United States. So it was New Rock, but it was more popular stuff, and what they were going to do is play songs more than once a day. They were going to rotate them like any radio station would. Right. So that was the plan.

Also, they wanted a morning show. Vince found out that Howard and I had worked together, talked to Howard, felt him out to see if he was maybe into coming back. It just so happened Howard's contract, I think, was coming to an end, and he made Howard an offer to come back and work with me under this new format. Howard accepted. And what are we talking here, 1990 or so?

No, that would be Howard hired in 89, left in 91, back in 92. So I think he left early 91 and came back late 92. And then you had a pretty almost a decade of sort of uninterrupted success, right? This was the glory years, you'd

say, of the Humble and Fred show. Yeah, it was. It was a lot of fun and we really didn't have a lot of pressure during that time. You know, it's funny when you look back on it, because we played alternative music, and even though it was an alternative

station that was trying to be more of a pop station or a pop new rock station, I don't even know if that's the right terminology, but be a new rock station, but program it like it was like any other station. I don't even know if that's the right terminology. But be a new rock station, but program it like it was like any other station. Like Top 40 for grunge? That's right.

Yeah. Okay. Play the big song several times a day. Okay. Yeah. And you know, it worked ratings-wise.

I mean, whether you like it or not. Well, I loved it. That was my stuff, so I enjoyed it. So, what was the question? No,

I haven't got to the question yet, but... No, no, no, but I was on my way here, so I forget. Well, the 90s were good to you. And I remember the number one in 97 campaign. Right. I think you told me that you actually hit number one years before or something, and you kept it quiet.

I can't remember. Is there a story around? Yeah, we wanted to be number one in 97. And prior to that, we became number one. And number one was number one. The demo. 1834, because a station like um uh the edge right which had become at that time to be number one overall it just wasn't realistic so you have a demographic and you target it and yes we became number one and i think the the point i was going to make before was you know there was always a little bit of a frustration

because we worked at that type of station we we knew we were never going to be number one overall. Which, when you look back on it, there were days that Howard and I used to say, boy, you know, if we ever worked at a station that played really accessible music, how big could we be? Sure. Right? But now when we look back on it, we realize what a little gem we had then, and what a great station it was and how it was the perfect place for us.

Because really, screw how many people overall. What matters more than how many? It's who's listening. And we had the best listeners. You had me, Freddie. Well, I know. Even the edge listener of today is different than the edge listener of before.

Yeah, really. Yeah. So you eventually did move to Mojo on the AM dial 640. So I know that Mojo was owned by the same company as CFNY, so it was like a lateral move in the same company. So they approached you and said there's an opportunity, and you guys basically consulted each other and decided to take it? Is that how that went down?

This is another thing you look back on. At the time, we were both into our 40s, and I guess the idea was this 18 to 34-year-old radio station, this morning show isn't going to last forever. Plus, Howard and I had always asked to play less music. We said, could we please play less than eight songs an hour? We want to talk more. Let us try. And they would never let us do it, because that would be a very bold move at the time. so then they had this am signal once they had bought wick or western international communications whatever it was and they inherited

q107 and talk 640 so what to do with this uh am signal and they came up with the idea talk radio for guys and they thought boy if we Humble and Frey could do the morning show. I mean, you know, they're in their 40s. Maybe they're getting too old for the edge. They want to talk more, so let's propose it to them. Well, they did, and we accepted. And then you moved to 640, where you could talk, I guess, longer than previously.

It was all talk, I suppose. It was all talk. And I really, really enjoyed it. I remember the Switch vividly. And I remember I liked the music. I didn't like the Switch because I liked hearing that music that I liked with you guys. And I followed a little bit, but I was no longer as faithful a listener to Humble & Fred after the Switch. But I did listen to some mojo yeah what happened was i uh when i when i when you lost me was when

you left mojo for 99.9 i know you you don't look back fondly no at this decision it was it just that they made you an offer you couldn't refuse or what exactly uh made you jump from chorus uh at 640 and to mix 99.9 here's what happened we went to mojo and it was no holds barred talk radio for guys push the envelope have fun well not long after we started to do it, some people there got cold feet. You know, this thing at Chorus Radio, the HR department, you know, the whole politically correct thing. The first indication was we issued these mojo calendars. Right. And every month there was a gorgeous chick.

I remember these calendars. Beautiful woman. Yeah. Well, when we first got them, everybody was excited and we pinned them up all over the radio station. Well, then it got back to us,

the calendars had to come down because it was making people feel uncomfortable. And it was some people feeling uncomfortable. And you got to remember, out of the gate, talk radio for guys. There was some pushback generally from women with the attitude, of the gate, talk radio for guys, there was some pushback generally from women with the attitude, what do you mean talk radio for guys? What about women?

So then Howard and I, the odd time on the show would say, you know, hey, Mojo Radio, AM640, talk radio for guys and really cool chicks. Because that's basically what it was. A lot of women got it, a lot of women didn't get it. Anyway, within the halls of Chorus or 640 and the Edge, Q107, we were all together. Somebody didn't like those calendars. And I think this started the whole sort of politically correct thing. Some of the things that were going on on the radio station. They're second-guessing the whole concept.

Concept of talk radio for guys. The guy that was running Chorus Radio at the time, his name was John Hayes. Now, his claim to fame is he fired Howard Stern in New York. Okay. And this guy apparently was a bit of a prude, and the more he listened, the more he got cold feet.

So all around us, this stuff started falling apart. What we had bought into, the concept of 640, was starting to fall apart. Ripken, who did Middays, he had been pushed to the weekends, and he was great. So this stuff started to happen.

And then all of a sudden, we got a call one day from Pat Holliday, who was the general manager under Gary Slate, who owns Standard Broadcasting, owned The Mix. They wanted a morning show. They made us an offer. And so we were in this situation. Do we stick with Mojo and see where it's going,

or do we go back to FM with this great offer, Standard Broadcasting? If we want to work on AMCFRBs there, maybe we could do some stuff with them. So we took the offer. Now I'm going to ask you a personal question. You could tell me to F off if you like, but how much more money were we talking about here? Just like a sense. Are we talking about this was like 50% more money

than you were making? Or I'm just naturally curious and maybe it's irrelevant, but I think that if it's... No, I wouldn't say 50%. It was a lot more money. Okay. And there was a bonus structure that we thought we could hit, no problem, which would have made it. Taito ratings, I guess?

Oh, yeah. BBM. Would have made us a ton. Right. But remember, this move was made. We're at this AM station that really doesn't have a shit together anymore, and we can go to FM, a pretty solid

property. So money was involved, but there was a big part of future involved, too. What's best for us long-term? And maybe we'll get to this later. And how do radio guys go? You guys get a guaranteed contract? Is that how... In sports land, we're used to these guaranteed contracts,

but in the world where I live, they can pretty much let you go anytime, and they just have to severance you fairly. But here's the thing. And I think I was the initiator of this, because Howard had moved around a bit. I was pushing 24 years with Chorus. So when they came to us, I said to Howard,

I'm not going anywhere unless the contract's guaranteed. So we both got five-year guaranteed contracts. Whether we worked five years or one day, he had to pay us the five years. Yeah, I mean, after that much time, you deserve some insurance, if you will. And in retrospect,

I wish I had never done it. In retrospect, I wish we had never made the move to 640, because that whole thing about age is just bullshit. I mean, look at David Letterman. He's 60 years old. Pardon me? Hindsight can be a bitch.

I think it can kill you. It can. Yeah. Looking back, woulda, shoulda, coulda. At that time, you made the decision. You thought you and... May I ask if you got some pressure from Howard? Maybe you were hesitating, but he was gung-ho,

and maybe he talked you into it? No, no. Absolutely not. You know what? As a matter of fact, the other way, in fact, several times, Howard said to me during negotiations, especially on D-Day, when we decided to actually do it, a couple of times he said to me, if you don't want to do this, and at one point I was going to say to him,

if you want to do this, you do it, and I'll stay at 640. But then what happened? We got on the phone with this John Hayes guy, and he was a bit of a prick. On a conference call, we hadn't signed yet. And he's going, humbly afraid, do you want to work for Mojo or not? I want to know now. Anyway, he was very abrupt and very and very cold. So that was sort of the trigger for me to go, you know what? This is the guy that's been fucking this whole situation up to.

Let's just get away from this. And Gary Slade had his own reputation. But Gary Slade was very loyal from the standpoint that I was only two years into that contract. He fired me and I got every penny. He was very... No, good for you. No question there.

Three years you got paid by Standard after they told you to stop showing up. But when you talk about retrospect or second guessing, I did a lot of that for the first few years, especially after being let go by the mix. I'm thinking, what am I doing? I mean, we could probably still be at Mojo today. You know that?

Because, I mean, John Oakley's still there, and that radio station really hasn't moved forward in the ratings a lot. And I'm convinced 640, given the chance, allowed to live as it was, it would be kicking ass today. I don't mean first overall. I mean, you know how well the fan does?

It's got a solid, solid following of men. Yes. And I think Mojo would have been like that. It needed time. I still hear from people that just absolutely adored that radio station, especially guys out and about in the city driving around all day. Sure.

Or outside of the city driving trucks and stuff like that. They loved the station. So it was never allowed to really develop the way it could have. And I think it would have been doing better than 640 does today. And John Oakley's still there and doing a great job, by the way, John Oakley. And then I think of The Edge. I think we could still be at The Edge.

You know, there's Kevin and Bean in Los Angeles, our age RH still working at a New Rock station. It's not how old you are. It's what's going on between your ears. No, absolutely. That's what it's all about. Now, so 99.9 lets you go, and then they go with Howard solo for a bit. Yes.

And then I guess a year later, they decide to let Howard go as well, and you're both out. You started a blog, canadianthinker.com. Yes. And also freddyp.ca, which predates Canadian Thinkers. We work together. With all your help, yes.

Yeah, it was fun. And one of the most frequently asked questions I get about Freddie P. is, why did you stop writing on Canadian Thinker? You just got busy with the... We'll get to the podcast in a minute, but I guess you just got busy with other projects that need your focus. Yeah, and that's probably not really an excuse.

But here, let me explain it this way. Sure. Doing Canadian Thinker was great therapy for me because those three years that I wasn't working, and I could have worked out of market because the only condition of that contract years that I wasn't working, and I could have worked out of market. Because the only condition of that contract, that guaranteed contract I signed,

and Slate was great this way too. I just couldn't work in Toronto. So for those three years, I could have gone to Ottawa or just outside the market. Can you go to Hamilton? Yeah, and he probably would have allowed that. And I could have double dipped. But I didn't. For whatever reason. But that blog gave me a purpose to get up in the morning because I really need that.

So I would get up in the morning, and I'm telling you, from like 7 a.m. probably till noon or 1 every day. I really, you know, I would do five or six postings a day. It was very well written. I mean, it's still there. That's the nice thing about it. It's all archived there. Yeah. Well written.

You had a, I'd call it a passionate following because I recognize when I go back and look at the commenters that you had like the RGs and the Mississauga Phils and all these various names. I see them on my site now. They basically, you're not updating yours now so they needed a place

to kind of converse. I know that people would love it even if it was one entry a week that they could kind of discuss amongst themselves. I think a Canadian thinker, they'd love it. And I've kept bullshitting because over the past year, year and a half, I keep every so often I'll write a posting and say, okay, I'm going to get back to once a week or

one thing a day, and I just haven't. But that was great therapy for me to get up every day and do that. And it was great to see how it was pretty soon I got a that. And it was great to see how it was... Pretty soon I got a following. And what was really great is a lot of people within the industry,

like John Derringer had me on his show, and then I started making appearances on some radio shows, morning shows. CHCH, I remember. CHCH. Mark Hebbshire. All these people within the industry saw that blog and thought it was really good.

And to be endorsed by those people and ask them to become part of their show because of what I'm doing on that blog was pretty cool. But I did that. So then when the whole Humble and Fred Radio thing started, it was the same thing I told Howard when we started. We've got to look at this as a job. Like every day, come in and do a podcast.

Every day, just like a job. So I know I might be getting ahead of myself. No, that's fine. We're actually, I was... But that's why, because I started the focus of Humble and Fred Radio, and the thing is I just felt like my thoughts were a little too scattered every day to sit down and concentrate on that blog, but I

really do, on a day-to-day basis, think that I just write something once a day. So I've actually gone in and added some code that would eliminate spam comments, just so you know. Oh, did you? Yeah. So when you're ready to kick this off, it'll be easier to maintain because you shouldn't

get these spam comments anymore. And I can't make you do this, but if I want to see Canadian thinker blogging, and our sensibilities aren't always aligned when it comes to some of this. So if you want to tell us about how there's a, I don't know, something about Rob Ford I might not agree with

or something about Stephen Harper or whatever, I still enjoy reading what you write because the way you write it and the way you express it, I appreciate it and respect it regardless of whether

I agree with it. I would love to see Freddie P. writing one entry a week on CanadianThinker.com. You know, and I should because even if it's

on the weekend, and you know what the thing is, Mike? It's exercising that muscle. Tell me. I've been blogging every day for 11 years. It's like,

there's something therapeutic about it and there's something that helps me do all the other work I do all day. When I write in blog entries, it gets the creative juices

flowing and now I can go do some work that pays. Right. Yeah. And the thing is, when I go back and look at Canadian Thinker, I'll be going through

these pages thinking, boy, that was pretty good. I didn't even realize at the time how good this was, how solid this was. But, you know, in some respects, that was my job.

Right, right. But the thing is, doing it every day, you're exercising that muscle. You know, and I've always had the ability to write and express myself in a pretty clear and, I think, entertaining manner. And I think the more I did that, the more that muscle was worked

and it just got better and better and better. And I know recently when I've gone back to write an entry, I sort of have to sit there and go, okay, you know, I just have to attack it a little differently because I haven't been doing it. Now, before we dive into the podcast, I do want to ask you some questions about the Humble and Fred podcast at humbleandfredradio.com. Between you being let go from 99.9 and starting the daily podcast we're going to discuss, was there any tension with Howard? How was the relationship between Howard and Fred during that period? We worked on some podcasts. We did that Christmas special at Dan Duran's house, and we did a few at Proud FM.

I think we did a few at Dan's house, maybe. No, well, there just was no relationship because he continued to work at The Mix and lived in Oakville and I didn't work at The Mix and I lived in Brampton. And then I guess, then I took the job as program director. So yeah, you took the job in Peterborough.

Right. And Howard took a job at Easy Rock with, I don't remember which happened first. And Howard and a job at Easy Rock with, I don't remember which happened first. And Howard and I had met for lunch a couple of times and thought about trying to get Humble and Fred back going again. And then as a matter of fact, he phoned me one day and he said, listen, I got to be honest with you. And I said, what? And he said, they've offered me the job to do the morning show at Easy Rock and I'm going to accept. And I said, well, of course you're going to accept it. Because they pay real money? Well, of course. Like, without a doubt.

So then it sort of went on the back burner. And I always had this, here's the thing. There's, like any business, there's a lot of assholes in management. And that applies to radio, too. And I always thought that maybe I could get into the management side of radio and maybe make a difference and bring sort of a different attitude. That didn't work out so well, I think. I have a question. I was from a reader

that was going to be in the reader question hot fire section, but it's relevant right now, so I'll quickly ask it. What? You speak negatively about the Peterborough experience being a program director

for The Wolf and Cruise FM or whatever else. So what happened there? Essentially, you felt you were lied to by management, or did there just be a difference of opinion with management? What went down there? This could be a whole podcast unto itself. I went there.

It was great that they hired me. Instructions I was given for the stations, it was like a moving target. At Chorus Radio, they like to manage whereby a lot of people have input. So if anything goes south, everybody can take some credit for it not working out. Which is cool.

It's fine. There's different styles of management and everything. I'd have preferred just leave it to me and I'll take all. Right, you'll be accountable. Yeah. Good or bad, it's on you. It was a great experience. It was a great experience for the first year and a half.

And it was a great experience because I learned so much. There was a union at the radio station. So when I got there, there was a few kids there that really wanted to learn and they didn't care about the union and they just wanted to, they were like sponges. They wanted to talk to me and find out about the business and get my perspective. Then there was a legion of guys there under the union had been there for 20, 25 years. Didn't want to hear about anything new. It always worked this way. Why change it? So I had to deal with that. I won some of those people over some people I did not win over.

had to deal with that. I won some of those people over, some people I did not win over. And then about a year before I left, my old general manager from Toronto came and became the general manager in Peterborough. And he's a micromanager and he's not funny. And he gave me some advice that I didn't agree with. He also gave me advice that didn't jive with advice I'd been getting from above him. I was given a mentor out of Toronto, the great Ross Winters, who programs The Edge. And say what you want about it. Yeah, but they print money over there, right? They print money.

It's a success story. He'd tell me one thing, and then this guy would tell me something different. And then there was another guy, Dave Farrell, runs the whole radio division there. Oh, the guy who wanted to sell you the trademark. Yes. Right, I remember that. Yeah. And I'm just being honest. It came to a head one day

where the boss in Peterborough said to me, you know, run some of this stuff by Dave, and you'll see. And then I got the report from Dave, and it was completely different than the instructions I had been given. Office politics. So I started calling him on this a couple of times.

And anyway, it just went south from there. Let me say, too, because I'm not going to pretend. When I got there, the ratings, there was two stations. The ratings on The Wolf took a dive. But I also got there at the same time more stations were coming into the market. So for the longest time, there was two stations in Peterborough, a country station and the Wolf, and they each had a 50 share. Well, even when I got to Peterborough, I think there was five stations. When I left, there was

like nine. It was unbelievable. Because even these other stations in coburg and that started sending sales staffs into peterborough and then this magic station happened so i had taken the attitude that the new the new reality for the wolf wasn't that 50 share it was going to be somewhat less than that and the key to success for that would be a mixture of classic rock and new rock and again that didn't jive with the guy who was my boss and led to my demise fair enough but this did lead to uh the podcast with howard so he gets let go from easy rock oh no boom so he gets let go from boom yeah uh you are now a free agent if you will You've been let go by Chorus and the Peterborough Stations.

And I called it on my blog the perfect storm. Like all of a sudden, you guys, this is a couple of summers ago, I guess, you guys are now meeting and discussing the possibility of making a serious go of this podcast thing. And I was lucky enough to have some small role in that at the beginning, helping just with website stuff and making sure that the stuff got on iTunes and that we can get this audio file shared.

But since you launched your daily podcast at humbleandfredradio.com, you have struck a deal with Astro. Well, you had a deal with Rogers. Right. Which was cool. You guys were broadcasting in Kingston and you had some deals with Rogers.

But then right now, you have a deal with Astral Stations and you're actually broadcasting on 1010 every night at midnight. Yes. And a few other GTA stations. Hamilton, St. Catharines, London. So how's that all going?

And that's going to grow. And this is excellent for you because your advertisers must be very happy. Yes, they are. Cool. Because that's part. Like our business model, we do the podcast and we have sponsorship partners, as we call them. So the more outlets we get on increases your rates.

Absolutely. It's a very simple concept. No, and that makes much sense. You'll pay more for a podcast that's also on 1010 for two hours a night than you would. Yes, like we don't sell, like a radio station sells 60-second commercials. We don't. We sell partnerships.

Do you have a maximum number of partnerships you'll sell? Well, we would. We're at five now, and we said six under the current format would probably be as far as we want to go. But again, this is changing. It's evolving all the time. It's got to be because you're in a brave new world.

And you know what? I can't. In the next couple of weeks, we're going to be making another announcement. Okay, my note here is you've been hinting at this announcement and you've been not even that subtle about it, to be honest. I listen every day to the podcast. It's not even that subtle. Do you want to make that announcement right now, Freddie P.?

No, because it's not fair. Do you want to drop a big heavy hint about it? Okay. Well, all I can say is we're going to take it to a... You know, part of me wants to say a bigger platform, but is there any platform bigger than online? No, the internet is everywhere, except parts of North Korea.

No, so seriously. You know, as I said to you when I walked in, I mean, you know, I look at this table with these microphones, you and I are going to have this conversation, and five minutes after we're done, it's going to be available to anyone in the world. I mean, that's mind-boggling. It's crazy, yeah.

But no, because Howard's not here, and the thing is, until you sign off on certain things, I... No, fair enough. I was just fishing there to see if you wanted to make the announcement now. But it's a pretty cool thing, because... And don't get me wrong.

Howard and I were both in the position... We had a lot of good earning years, and neither one of us was stupid. So that put us in a position to be able to pretend at the beginning, pretend at the beginning, pretend at the beginning, not now, that this was a full-time job. When I said to Howard, we're not going to do this out of our house. We're going to do this in a studio.

We're going to come every day like it's a job. We're going to record every day like it's a job. And that's what we did. And then next thing, Rogers comes calling. And then all of a sudden, sponsorships are there. And then Astral wants to put us on their radio stations. In the next couple of weeks, we're going to announce something

else that's going to take us to another level. It's a, you know, it's a pretty good story. No, it's awesome. Are we getting rich? No. But the thing is, I don't have to get rich. I'll tell you right now, I'm enjoying myself more than I ever have in my career. You're your own boss.

That's the best thing in the world. But not only that, just the freedom to do what we do, whether you like it or not, take it or leave it. You know, we have an audience. We're making a living. Again, is it morning show money out of Toronto?

No, but I'm having the time of my life and that's all that matters at this point. No, it's awesome. I have mentioned earlier, we have some questions from readers. I'll just fire these at you and you could rapid fire answer. Do you miss your tits?

No, not at all. Best thing I've ever done. So you had your recent, this is very recent, right? Like a few weeks ago? Yep. You had your breasts reduced and you don't,

best thing you ever did. There you go. So this summer you'll be at the trailer and your shirt will be off. Yes. Awesome. Yeah. They took 650 milliliters

off each side, and I was always self-conscious. You know, even, I don't know if you're telling me the truth, Mike, when you say you never noticed. I just looked at pictures from 2010,

because I posted a picture of you and I in 2010 at Proud FM. Yeah. And even in the picture, I can't see any man boob on you. But I think you must have compensated for it by you wearing looser shirts. Maybe. Oh, absolutely.

So I never saw it. I never once saw it. I would get a nice golf shirt as a gift or something, put it on, it would cling to my boobs. Listen, I look around and there's other guys that'll wear that and they're not self-conscious and they don't think about it. I did. So when this opportunity,

and it always fascinated me, breast reduction for men whenever I heard the commercials on television. So we had Dr. Bob Sleitholm out of Brampton to come on and guest on our show and talk about the removal of man boobs. And then during that conversation, Howard struck a deal with him to do me.

Nice. And I'll tell you, it's the best thing ever I've ever done. If you're happy, I'm happy. No, I am. Nice. And I'll tell you, it's the best thing ever I've ever done. If you're happy, I'm happy. That's good stuff. No, I am. I am. I'm very happy.

What's wrong with the Blue Jays? It's early, but we were sold this World Series team, and we're 6-9. I don't know. I've been watching almost every game, and it doesn't feel right. I remember 92 and 93. This doesn't feel right, but it's early. What do you think? As I wrote on my Facebook last night, I liked it better when we were anticipating the season.

Yeah, me too. Like, I mean, I don't know what to say. You know, part of me says, you know, this is typical Toronto, just when we're all revved up, ready for this big, fabulous season. It's all going to fall apart. But you're right, it's early.

But when is it not too early? My brother and I had the same fight on... Okay, but when is it not too early? My brother and I had the same fight on... Okay, but when is it not too early? 25 games? I don't know. I don't know what that... I'll tell you one thing, though. I'm not going to waste a lot of time worrying about it. I'm not, because I've

got other... Listen, if... You've got a grandson now, you've got other things going on. I've said I totally endorse bandwagon jumping when it comes to sports teams. Sure. Well, why wouldn't you be a bandwagon jumping when it comes to sports teams. Well, why wouldn't you be a bandwagon jumper? They're playing well. You like them.

They're playing like shit. You don't. What's wrong with that? Nothing wrong with that. Dean Blundell, somebody wants to know if there's a feud between you guys and Dean Blundell. No, I wouldn't say. Somebody said you were going to be on the show and then they didn't want you on the show.

Who was going to be on the show? You? Were you going to be? I honestly just got the comment. I don't remember this off the top of my head. You were going to be on Blundell's show and then it never happened and they wanted to know if there's a feud

between you guys and Blundell. Does that ring a bell? Yeah, but I was on Blundell's show a couple of times. Me and Geetz Romo from Pete and Geetz were on his show. Oh, I remember that, yeah. There was one, here's, I'll tell you one thing that happened. When I was working at the Wolf in Peterborough, Ross

Winters, the program director, phoned me one day and said, Jason Barr, who was still there at the time, is going on holidays. Would I fill in for him? And I said, what do you mean? Jason used to operate the board, and I've never really done that. I said, what do you mean? He said, well, no, you do the news and sports and just sit in with him? And I said, Jason used to operate the board and I've never really done that. I said, what do you mean? He said, well, no, you do the news and sports and just sit in with the guys. I said, you know what? I'd absolutely love to do that. And I was so excited

about it. I blogged about it. I talked about it. It was the greatest thing. I was really, really looking forward to it. So then Friday morning, I was supposed to do this the next Monday. On the Friday morning, I emailed Jason Barr and I said, Jason, can you send me just sort of a rundown of what the morning's like or what the times are and everything just so I can look it over over the weekend? And he got back to me and he said, hasn't anybody talked to you? And I said, what? And he goes, all those guys decided to take holidays now.

That must be what he's talking about. And I said, you know what? I don't mind That must be what he's talking about. Okay. And I said, you know what? I don't mind telling this story because it's the truth. Right. And I said, nobody got to me. And Jason was, he was really upset because he had a history with me. And he was embarrassed for the radio station.

Yeah, that's unprofessional. So sometime during that week, Dean and Todd had decided they weren't going to work. And that I was going to be part of that. They were going to take holidays, but nobody, and it was out of Jason's hand at this point, Dean or Ross Winters didn't get back to me. And I was heartbroken because, number one, I wasn't going to do it.

Number two, I had this thought. Here I had been in the business for 25, or pushing 30 years. You know what kept coming back on me? Showing up there on the Monday morning and nobody being there. Because that could have easily happened. If I hadn't got a hold of Jason,

I would have just walked up to 228 Young at 5 o'clock on the Monday morning and nobody would have been there. That would have been tough. That's not cool. Does Justin Trudeau have a chance? Oh, absolutely he does. Yeah.

I know. I'm just reading. Now I'm reading. These are no longer my questions. He's a reader. Of course Justin Trudeau has a chance. Look at the history of, listen, Dalton McGinty got elected three times in this province.

Of course he's got a chance. You know, people couldn't stand Stephen Harper. Look at, he went from a minority to a majority. You just never know. You know what it's like when there's been the same person in power for like nine years. There's that fatigue where you just, sometimes it's like we need to change. It's been nine years of the same guy. Whatever that prevailing wind is at the time.

Right. You know, and I've told you, Mike, and you don't believe me, but I am not partisan. I like to look at myself as logical. The reason I supported Stephen Harper because I thought he was the right guy at the right time. And people say, okay, what do you think of Justin Trudeau? Right now, I don't want him to be the prime minister of the country. But we have two and a half years between then and now for him to prove himself. And people say, oh, you're just a Harper guy.

I don't want Stephen Harper to be the leader of the progressive conservatives either. It's time to move on. They should get a new leader. Nine years as prime minister will be enough. I'm the first one to say it. You know what? He might not be the right guy

for the times now. I maintain he was then. Are you following me? Yeah, that's fair. And the thing is with Justin Trudeau in the next two and a half years, here's what I worry about. People, you know,

you're still in your 30s. My daughter just hit 30. My son, by the time the election comes up what I worry about. People, you know, you're still in your 30s. My daughter just hit 30. My son, by the time the election comes up, I worry about those people. And it might take the mind of a Justin Trudeau to have the future of that generation in mind more than a Stephen Harper. So if I get over the next two and a half years

and I think, you know what, Trudeau's vision for the future makes sense for those people that are 30 that are getting their first mortgages, having kids. He's got my support, but you've got to earn it. Absolutely. I will not hate him just because he's a liberal and just because he's Justin Trudeau. But you do know some people will.

Like some people... Yeah, well, like Stephen Harper. There's people that hate Stephen Harper just because he's a conservative and he's Stephen Harper. I have no time for those people. Sit down and tell me why you hate them, and you'll get my ear. What is the number one thing wrong

with terrestrial radio today? You know, this is ironic. You know the best radio going on in the city right now is on AM? I heard you, because you were talking about 1010. 1010, 640, 590, doesn't matter. The thing is you punch into those radio stations, you're getting up-to-the-minute talk.

You're being stimulated maybe by what they're saying or you're not being stimulated by what they're saying. You're getting fresh content that you can't get off your iPod. You know what I'm saying? I appreciate that opinion, and I enjoy some 590 sometimes. I'll listen to Bobcat sometimes. But I find myself far more, I prefer CBC Radio 1. Okay, I understand.

But I almost look at that as an AM station because it's a talk station. Okay, so if you know what i'm saying that i agree with you because for music what are we going to do i don't want to hear like britney spears and will i am again right you know mike let me explain that it's cbc radio one i've got it on my presets too i didn't i said am because that's where most of the talk is okay but cb CBC is on FM talk. So let's pretend they're AM for that purpose. And that's why I say that.

Because musically, I'm sorry, I'm 56 years old and I might be a bit different because I've become involved in the internet and doing an online show and everything. But even me at my age, it's the last place I go for music now. My daughter's 30, never listens to the radio. No, you're music now. My daughter's 30, never listens to the radio. No, you're absolutely right. My son's 27, never listens to the radio. Howard and I made a big presentation to an agency last week, an advertising agency. And there was like 20 people at the table. And they're all like around 30, some above, some below.

We said, who here listened to the radio today or listens to the radio? Four of them put their hands up. Yep. None of them watch TV in real time. And then we even asked... Except for live sports. Live sports or live news.

Exception, yeah. But I look at that as like AM radio now. Yeah, you're right. It's that I can't get that content on my iPod. Right. So I go there for it. Right. And really, it's shocking.

And what I think is wrong with terrestrial radio is the FM band, the way it's become. Like, you look at Q107, they play classic rock. But I know, I was on the inside, they only play about 650 different titles a week. Yeah, you mean Q10 Zeppelin? Is that the station? Well, whatever it is.

And I hate loud Zeppelin. You know, my next question is related to that. And then I've sort of given up. And I love The Edge and I probably still would musically. But I've found now I don't listen to it because I got SiriusXM so I listen to First Wave or Alt Nation or whatever it is

for that music. Or I listen to my son-in-law who loves music but never gets it from the radio. No, they get it from Stereogum and all these different blogs. So here's the thing. They've got this huge train barreling down on them, and they're not doing anything about it. And all these radio executives can sit there and look at me today and go,

yeah, but look at the bottom line. We're still billing this much a year. That's fine. But you know what? The end's going to be quick. And it's going to be like overnight all of a sudden. So the number one thing wrong is? Bad programming on FM.

And I understand it. And let me explain this too. Because people often accuse you of being bitter. I'm not. Here's the thing. If I was a program director in Toronto right now, I would do the same thing, because it's my job. And your job is to make money, right?

For the shareholders, because it's all shareholders. All these companies are shareholders. So the thing is now, you do now what you need to do to make that next quarter hit. And what, I'm going to sit in a room and say, no, guys, let's think four years down the road. We're going to take a ratings hit and a revenue hit, but, you know, it's going to be cool radio in the end.

I mean, ideally, that's what you'd like to do, but it's not realistic. So I understand what every one of these guys is doing. Even like, you know, this fresh thing last week in Hamilton. Oh, right, where Kelly Couture is now. God bless her, and she's very talented. The irony there is how talented is she when she sits in on HumbleAndFredRadio.com

and can actually talk? I talked about this in my life. I listened for a half an hour to Kelly's show and I heard her talk for eight seconds. Right.

That's no joke. And it was so frustrating because there'd be another three and a half minute song and then you go right into the next song. She'd talk for eight seconds. I'd get four stupid ads

or whatever because I listen to CBC all the time. I forgot what ads are like on radio. And your podcast, no ads, you know, different kind of ads, much, much easier to stomach. And yeah, Kelly doesn't get a chance to speak.

No, and Kelly's talented. Her program director, I know Jim McCourty. It's not his fault. That's the format that was laid on his desk. And that's the format he's going to execute. And I know him, and he's going to execute it perfectly because he's a great program director. And who put that on his desk was probably Dave

Farrell. And the reason, because research has shown that this format works, and it's a revenue generator, and women like it. Women buy most of the stuff in the household, and they control the money. Yeah. I understand all that.

But the thing is, that philosophy and that way of thinking, it's not going to be around long because of all the things we've said. People aren't listening anymore. But on that note, if you, this is another question from the blog, if you were offered a spot

on a morning radio show, would you consider taking it? Absolutely. So what about a format like that? An idiot? No. Got to ask the questions. But let's say Fresh FM had a deal for Humble and Fred to do mornings

instead of Colleen and whoever. Would you consider that regardless? Because at the end of the day, you need to make the money and feed the family. And not everything is about agreeing with the format or the decision and the... Let me position... It's no secret, I'm 56 years old. I'm not far off retirement.

Believe me, I'm in pretty good shape. So it's like when you say, you know, do it for the money. Yeah, I would do it for the money, but I don't have to do it for the money. So that would enter into the decision. And it's easy to speculate. But when somebody pushes, because it's happened to me before, pushes that piece of paper across the desk and you like the number that's written on it. Yeah. Well, it really changes your attitude and changes your perspective.

But let me put it this way. It's tough to answer that question because that's never going to happen. Who would hire Humble and Fred and a lot of money to speak for 15 seconds? Who would? It would be a waste of money. Good question. Well, just seriously, just think about that. Let's pay them hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars

to come and speak at 15 seconds. That offer is never, ever going to be made. If Howard and I ever got an offer again, it would probably be on AM radio, which we've received, by the way, in turndown. Toronto Station? Listen, let me put it this way. Let me rephrase that.

We've been offered opportunity to go that way and decided to stick with what we're doing because we think long-term it's better for us. The only thing, the only, and this scenario isn't going to happen anyway. Say somebody comes and buys, you know, with this Bell Astral Flip. Say somebody buys Boom

and they think, you know what? It's pretty tough to compete in this market. Now we're going to try something revolutionary. We're going to have a hot talk station, maybe like Mojo was on FM. Would you guys be interested? That's the only scenario I could ever see where we would get back on the radio.

And do you really think Rita McNeil is better than Led Zeppelin? Yes. To me. Music's subjective. Oh, very much so. I can't say. I really don't like that. I've never been able to figure out that screechy.

Now, I'm not a big Zeppelin guy either, but you don't, there's not a few songs that you think are okay? Well, Stairway to Heaven, maybe. Okay. But like most of it, no. The thing is, Mike, I'm being sincere. I could sit over there on that couch, and if you played me a Rita McNeil song,

I'm sitting there with a beer relaxing. I'd much rather listen to her voice, the words she's singing, than have strident Led Zeppelin screeching in my ear. That's just me, though. People think I'm crazy, but I don't know. I've met people that don't like the Beatles. Fine.

There's no doubt. Fine, because that's your taste. It's taste. Music's super subjective and sometimes very... My brothers hate Rush, and I can see why they hate Rush. I happen to like Rush, but my brothers hate Rush. They can't handle Geddy Lee's voice. Yeah, well, Rush is never really...

It's an alienating band, right? Rush has never really been part of my world either. I don't hate them, but I haven't... Here's the thing about Rush. They're played a lot on rock stations and classic rock stations, but not like Zeppelin. Like, the thing is, when I was in Peterborough, I had this mainstream rock station

or what I thought was supposed to be a mainstream rock station until they wanted to make it some kind of this weird classic rock station and play some new rock but not enough that anybody would ever be able to get used to it right whatever that was all about those hybrids in the small town hybrids or whatever you get yeah so um but I used to get the music testing out of Toronto, and it was just basic. You know, they had your pillars, Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, Chili Peppers, and you just played them. Yeah.

You didn't ask questions. You just played them. Well, the thing is, in a mainstream rock station that plays a little bit of each, you know, Chili Peppers sort of sound relevant nowadays. The Beatles, to my mind, are just institutional. Led Zeppelin to me. Diremakers sounded out of place at 8 o'clock in the morning.

It was just, who wants to hear that at 8 o'clock in the morning? But because it was Zeppelin, we played it. No questions asked. That's the problem I had. How are our Leafs going to do in the playoffs this year? So it's been nine years, and it's a virtual certainty we'll be back in the playoffs after nine years. You know, it's all a question of matchups.

Don't you think it's all a question of the great James Reimer? No. Don't you think if Reimer plays the way he's capable of playing, he will be okay for a round or two? And if he doesn't play, because he's never had playoff testing, I guess, outside the Marlies, don't you think if he gets good goaltending,

he'll be okay? Who would you like to see as matched up against? Montreal. I agree. They're not going to beat Boston. They're not going to beat Pittsburgh. I'm not sure they'll beat... With Mike Green playing the way he is in Ovechkin,

I'm not sure they beat Washington. Those are really the only teams they could play. If the world falls apart in the next week and Winnipeg ends up in third, maybe we would play them. You'd have a chance against Winnipeg. Hey, the Leafs have had a great season. Have you seen them try to get the puck out of their own end?

And how they're outshot every night? In the playoffs, I'm sorry, against Boston, they don't win a game. We do not match up well against Boston. No, they don't win a game. I'm always impressed if we only lose by one goal against Boston in the regular season. But this was a great step forward this year. What do you think of that team? This is the first year

and I can't remember how long that it seems like we compete every single night, excluding this game against Washington. I don't know what happened there. Were you a Brian Burke fan? Brian Burke? Mr. Cease and Desist? This is his team. I had high hopes for Brian Burke when he came on board, and then I didn't agree with some decisions he made.

But yes, this is his team. It's his team. Although Reimer came from John Ferguson Jr., I think. But mostly this is his team. Let's not nitpick. Go down the roster. It's his team. Yeah, that's right.

Lupo, FNUF, all these guys. Yeah. He drafted Gardner. I mean, come on. It's just, it's his team. And everything Brian Burke, and I know he was a bit of an arsehole. Yeah. He could be a bit of an arsehole,

but sometimes the most successful people are assholes. A lot of what he predicted is unfolding with this team. There's just no getting around it. So do we agree that Brian Burke would still be general manager if he didn't have such loyalty to Ron Wilson? Do you agree? In my opinion, his loyalty to Ron Wilson is the reason he's gone. No, because he was still here after Wilson left.

But yeah, but I believe he should have canned Wilson far earlier. I agree. Yeah, it was a mistake. Wilson's a horrible coach, right? I think he was. I think he was too. I think San Jose would have won a couple of Stanley Cups if they didn't stick around.

Maybe. We'll never know, but I agree. But a lot last year, you know, I was pushing for Ron Wilson to go. I thought the change should be made. And when you look at what, although I wasn't big on Carlisle coming in, I thought they should have given it to Dallas Eakins. Yeah. Because if you're going young and you're going to rejuvenate this whole thing,

why not? I think Eakins thought that should have happened too. But it's Burke's team. Yeah. I think Wilson was a lousy coach. And this year, this shortened year has been somewhat enjoyable. Yeah. Don't make any bones.

I'm not suggesting the Leafs are a threat to win the Stanley Cup. No, I can only see them beating Montreal in the first round. Anybody else that has the potential for a matchup? So what about Ottawa if we end up... We could beat Ottawa. I don't know how... I don't think we can meet them. Okay.

Because Ottawa is not going to get to the second round either. So baby steps. We've been nine years in the wilderness. Now we're back in the playoffs. Maybe we could steal a round if we get a good matchup in the first round, and then we can bow out in the second round. But then onwards and upwards for next season. Hopefully. Another year. Kadri,

another year. He's been developing nicely this year. Yeah, but look at Jersey. Last year, Stanley Cup final. Now they're going to miss the playoffs. If you go back over the last several seasons, there's a lot of cases of teams doing really well one year and shit in the bed the next year. And maybe that could be the Leafs.

I don't know. Yeah, we'll see. Who knows? I hope they do well because I'm a Leaf fan. I love my Leafs. I love my Leafs. I hate my Habs. I hate the Habs.

They're not my Habs. They're not your Habs. And I cannot stand Hab fans. I agree. They're worse than the team. We agree, but we agree on many things, Freddie. We might not agree on Rob Ford and some other things, but we agree on Leafs.

Now, personal note, it's just that it has really been a pleasure working with you on the Humble and Fred podcast. Anything I can do with that, let me know. Not only am I a fan, but I like both of you personally. And you mentioned earlier that you got the invitation to the wedding.

So you're going to make it? You're going to be able to come to... Of course. Good. I have a nice suit that I bought. Not just for that. Recently, I bought a suit, and I look forward to it. You're not renting a tux for my wedding? No, not doing that, no. I would for Monica, if she asked. Well, maybe after this,

after we wrap up now, we'll get her to make a personal invitation. Anything else you want to say? I don't know. I'm surprised. You're not going to ask me about Rob Ford? You're not going to ask me about Stephen Harper? No, I mean, Rob Ford,

I'm not interested in talking about because we have... I don't want it to get the way it always goes, which is you think I hate Rob Ford for all the wrong reasons, and I think I hate him for all the right reasons. Right. And it's just such a boring...

I find it to be circular. You don't hate him. I don't think... You dislike him. You don't agree with his politics. Really, you don't hate him. Stephen Harper, for example, who I haven't written a negative thing about in years... You don't hate him.

You dislike him. You don't like his politics. I passionately dislike his sensibilities. I couldn't break bread with this man. It's not just that we disagree on some things, like, you know, whether it be about bike lanes or... Who are you talking about now? Rob Ford.

You couldn't break bread with Rob Ford? I couldn't break bread with Rob Ford. Stephen Harper, I haven't written a negative thing about Stephen Harper in years, by the way, because... Years? It's been years, if you search. I haven't said a negative word about Stephen Harper in forever, because we've just because it's been years, if you search. I haven't said a negative word about Stephen Harper in forever, because it is what it is. I respect his abilities. As a prime minister, he's our prime minister.

Let's go onwards until the election, and then we'll back whoever's appropriate. But Rob Ford, and we're not going to do this, so this is not happening, but almost every single day, Rob Ford says or does something that is 180 degrees

by what I would want and expect from the mayor of my city. And that's not because it has nothing to do with the man's physical appearance or clumsiness. It has nothing to do with the fact he refuses to acknowledge the gay pride parade. It has nothing to do with anything like that.

It has to do with my fundamental disagreement with his policies, his direction, and his short-sightedness when it comes to leading the city of Toronto. That's all. That's fair. So you and I going at it, to me, nobody wants to hear that. No, I know, and we're not. And I'll just tell you my position is I live in Brampton. What he does politically really doesn't affect me. I work in Toronto. And I said to you out of the box, yes, he can be a buffoon. Yes, he can be his own worst enemy. I just think that he has been treated out of the gate since day one unfairly.

That's all. And I think this unfair treatment has led to some of these incidents because he doesn't know what's coming at him from where, how, by who. Fred, this is my problem. It's come to the point where if there's something written, like I just read today that he's working less than ever. He's got three meetings a month or something because they did a Freedom of Information Act.

As a mayor, he's working less than any mayor by far than any mayor has ever worked for the city. Yeah, but see, I heard the other side of that. One of his adversaries, what's her name? Shelley, one of the councillors. She explained that. She said, that's not fair. She says, because a lot of that stuff,

people request that those meetings are not made public for political reasons. But then why are they put in as personal? Like, he blocks off a lot of time that's personal time. But maybe, I think then he's just, quite frankly, an idiot because he makes himself look far worse than he is. Okay, yeah. No, I said he's his own worst enemy.

Okay, so, but my point actually was not to get on him for this. This is actually to say that if I suggest this to somebody, they say, oh, it's a witch hunt. The Toronto Star... Oh, no, a lot of it has been a witch hunt. What you just brought up, that's legit. But there's an explanation for it. Photographing the guy coming out of a KFC

or having that CBC witch show up in his driveway, that's a witch hunt. Okay, the CBC thing... Witch hunt. in his driveway. That's a witch hunt. Daniel Dale in your backyard is a witch hunt. I can't. Okay. Daniel Dale that our, okay, real quick here, our mayor wanted to buy land from the city

outside of his backyard. Right. In what world are we where a journalist shouldn't go see this land that the mayor wants to buy? Because you have to admit, no mayor I can think of, even Mel Lassman would be too smart to make that request while mayor,

because the perception of the conflict of interest, the optics, the optics are enormously poor in terms of conflict of interest. Rob Ford doesn't seem to understand conflict of interest optics at all. And that's why he hires his football coach and all this, and he won't tell us what the guy's doing or anything

like that. But when the reporter, Daniel Dale, goes and takes it, because Daniel Dale's been around a long time, and he's a pretty well-regarded reporter. Well, by who? Not by me. By you. No, but seriously, again, that's another subjective thing. A guy that goes into somebody's backyard isn't a good reporter to me. Everything's hinging on

this belief that he's staring into a backyard. First of all, it's light outside. Let's not even go down the dam. Other than that, you can't use the witch hunt excuse to excuse all of Rob Ford's poor decisions and direction. No, you can't, but there has been a lot of witch.

Do you think he should be re-elected, Rob Ford? If that's what the people want. Okay, that's a terrible answer because of course there's going to be a democratic election, but does he deserve to be re-elected if there's a foreign... I don't know. he hasn't had enough time yet he's only into this what a year no it seems like what is it it seems like it's been two and a half years it feels like

i think no but what is it i think it's two and a half years and when's the next election i think 16 months 15 well that's the cool thing about our system is that you know at that point people can decide absolutely the only thing is about the Daniel Dale thing. Here's the way, again, and I like to use the word rational. Okay, it was that property. It was next to his private home. Yes. How about a call?

Mayor, we're just sending somebody over. So in case you see somebody in the backyard, we're just sending somebody over to take a couple of pictures of that. But this one instance where maybe they should have called ahead. Sure they should. Fine. I just defended Daniel Dale's right. Daniel Dale's right to,

during daylight hours, go take pictures. It would have been nice to make a courtesy call, but he's going to, I want to know what the mayor's trying to buy from the city when he's got this title,

Rob Ford Mayor. Like, it doesn't matter if he signs it, Rob Ford, citizen of Toronto. He's still the mayor of the city. No, you know, a lot of this is, what's the word?

Ideological? Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? You think, yeah, you're right. We could go on here all day. Yeah, we could. I actually promised myself we wouldn't do the Rob Ford thing

because we will agree to disagree about Rob Ford. No, exactly. And like I said, I appreciate your differences of opinion because you express it so eloquently. Here's what concerns me, Mike, about the Rob Ford thing. I think, because of what I

perceive, not you, as a witch hunt, as I perceive the unfair treatment he's gotten may get him re-elected. And that's not right either. That isn't right. Because he might be the wrong mayor the wrong time for Toronto, but because, you know, all

that maybe silent majority sitting out there going, I don't like the way they're treating that guy. I'm going to vote for him without really knowing why they're voting for him. That's the scary thing. Right, and his last foe had so much political baggage on him.

And he still dominated downtown, but it wasn't enough. Who? What's his name? Openly homosexual e-health scandal. Oh, Smitherman. Smitherman.

So it was Smitherman versus Ford last time. Smitherman had so much baggage on him. Sure did. Yeah. So outside the downtown core, Ford swept up.

I believe that after two and a half, it'll be four years of Ford, I think a lot of the people who wanted to give Ford a shot realized that this whole, the gravy stops. Oh,

there was no gravy. He adds a bit of gravy. Maybe Rob Ford's not what we thought he was. So he loses a bit of that support. And if the competitor is better than Smitherman, which is not a very high bar, Ford's gone. But what I love about this country,

it's a democracy. We'll find out in 15 months. I can't wait. He could be. And you know what? I could sit here at the end of his reign and say, you know what? Looking back, it's time for an election. Looking back, you know what?

He doesn't deserve to be reelected. I wouldn't let him run like my... I know you wouldn't. A zoo. Yeah. I wouldn't let him run the Toronto Zoo. Listen, there's people that are going to vote for the Ontario Liberals in the next election. Explain that.

But they are. I think they can win. Yeah, Kathleen Wynne has her hands all over that McGinty stuff. Tell me how, you don't want, tell me how that happens. Now, I sit here and tell you, I could actually vote for Justin Trudeau

if over the next two and a half years he says the right things and displays to me that he's worthy. But Kathleen Wynne, there's no way that government deserves to get another sniff at this province under her leadership. And Tim Hudak is the man to... Well, I'm not saying that. There's nothing tangible wrong with him.

There's a lot tangible wrong with the Liberals under Wynne. It's there to be seen. Start adding up the numbers any final thoughts no well thank you very very much that was fun you have a good time i had a great time and that brings us to the end of our show you can follow me on twitter at tor Mike and Freddie P at Freddie P 55. See you all next week. music music music

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