Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Gill Deacon: Toronto Mike'd #290

Episode Date: December 7, 2017

Mike chats with Gill Deacon about being in a band, Gord Downie, her broadcasting career, her battle with cancer, her current hosting duties on Here and Now on CBC Radio and her favourite holiday music.

Welcome to episode 290 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent brewery celebrating 30 years in the craft beer business. Visit GLB at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard for $5 beers. And Propertyinthe6.com, Toronto real estate done right. And Paytm, an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot. Download the app today from paytm.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is host of Here and Now on CBC Radio, Jill Deacon.

Welcome, Jill. Is this the part where I come in? You may now speak. Listen, when Jill Deacon's on your show, you can speak anytime you want. Okay, here I am. Nice to be here. Thank you for coming. I'm wildly impressed.

I've been here five minutes and I'm pretty impressed that you, at your setup here. You're, you're, well, slow down. I gotta, I gotta soak this in.

So, you thought I'd have like a, maybe a little micro, maybe a USB microphone in the middle of a table. It's not, no, I mean,

I, I, it's, it's partly the gear and the setup and how, but it's partly your, you know, you're on episode 290.

You've been at, people are jumping on the podcast bandwagon and here you are. You've got it figured out. You're just doing it. Over five years of inviting fascinating people like you to come. And for some reason, people keep saying, yes, I haven't figured that part out yet. But you didn't even bring security. You're here by yourself. I know. I trusted you.

Did you get some reference? Did you get some reference checks with previous CBC people? Well, you did send me a list of the other 289 people who had come first, many of whom I know and respect. So, yeah, I was happy to be here. Well, on that note, I've had Dwight Drummond

on the show, Mike Wise, and Matt Galloway. And you were a glaring omission like where's jill deacon the best of the bunch oh please and where the heck is she because uh uh i wanted to collect the set so to speak but yeah we all have our own individual figurines so oh that's a good idea i'd buy one of those that's right by the way, I know you hear this all the time, but your name should be starting with a J. Like, I don't, I want to. I think it was a librarian in grade one who first told me that.

Well, that librarian was right, because, yeah, people are going to call you Gil. The thing is, my full name is Jillian, which I know some people spell Jillian with a J as well. But the, I guess the British Jillian is always with a G. Well, yeah, they're the ones who like to spell Jeff with a G. Yes. I will say my life got a lot easier when the X-Files became a big hit. Jillian Anderson paved the way for us Jills with a G.

No, I mean, I happen to listen to here and now, so I have no problem with this. But I was talking to my, you're going to hear a message. You're going to hear a message shortly from my buddy, Brian, who sponsors this show. He recorded a customized message for Jill. And he was not 100% sure if you were a Jill or a Gil, which exposed him. He's not listening to CBC Radio 1. That's right. So maybe I wasn't supposed to put that on CBC Radio 1. That's right. So maybe I wasn't supposed to put that on the podcast,

but he got it right. And I said, come on, you don't know Jill Deacon? By the way, I want to tell you this story. If it's okay with you, I'm going to take a photo with you after this episode. For sure. So people can see the shirt I'm wearing. Yes, I was wondering when we would begin to discuss your shirt.

Well, there's no time like the present. I knew I was at the right place when you opened the door in that shirt. Thankfully, you were wearing sunglasses. This could blind you. But the, by the way, don't smoke down here because I'm afraid this is very flammable. I'm worried. And thank you for not bringing like a hot tea or coffee. Any spark could cause that thing to go up.

It's the first time I've worn this shirt. So here's my story. This is the real deal. There's a gentleman who worked at TV Ontario and he's got a Dutch name with a lot of vowels. So I'm going to screw it up. But Martin, if Martin has two A's, is it still a Martin? Yes, let's go with that.

I don't know. Martin Hilbron, he worked at TV Ontario and I had tweeted something about, I have one of those like new retro CBC shirts where they remade them with the old exploding. With the pizza logo in the center. Right. But of course I bought that like five years ago. A Toronto hipster staple. Right, right, right. And I love it, but it's not the real deal. Like this is, you know, made five years ago to resemble the old logo. So Martin says, I have the real deal. He's like, he worked with the CBC crew at the 1976 Olympics in Montreal.

And everybody got the shirt I'm wearing now. Oh, my goodness. 1976. So the CBC and the TVO crew all got it. Martin tells me, everyone thought, to a T, everyone thought they were hideous. Nobody wanted these shirts. But Martin held on to his since 1976.

It's been in a closet collecting dust. And he heard me talking about the retro logo. And he says, he gave me his address and says, because I bike near him

all the time. And he's like, drop by and it's yours. I love this town. That's so great. I can't imagine why you want to depart with a beauty like that, but should we describe it?

Go ahead, yeah. It's the CBC Pizza logo. Like it's actually exploded. It's like erupted in various shapes and forms all over your collared shirt, bright oranges. Kind of like a Hawaiian shirt, sort of. Like I said, highly flammable, I'm sure. But this is the first time I put it on. So I got this in the summer bright oranges and kind of like a hawaiian shirt sort of like uh in high like i said highly flammable i'm sure but this is the first time i put it on so i got this in the summer and i told

martin i said i'm gonna wear this the next time i have a cbc personality on it just so happens you're the next one lucky me you are lucky and you get a picture of this 1976 right and that photo of us together uh just make sure you're ready. It's probably going to go viral, okay? I don't doubt it. Pretty exciting stuff. And I know whoever's running the at CBC Radio Canada Twitter account wants to see a copy as well. So I've got to make sure that whoever's running that account gets to see it as well. One more short story before we dive in. But I just want to share something.

So the other day, I literally, I biked to Rotate This, which is a popular record store on Ossington, and paid cash, like actual cash, to buy tickets to see the Sky Diggers at the Horseshoe Tavern. Good for you. But the whole thing felt very quaint, like it was 1976, maybe. You were on your bike. You paid with cash. I don't remember the last time I bought tickets at a store. Like I can't remember.

I bought them at Sunrise Records in the 90s because they were a Ticketmaster outlet and I used to line up with a wristband all the time in the 90s. But that's a long time ago. That is a beautiful throwback. And you picked a good show to do it for, The Diggers. Some of my favorites.

So Chris, later when we start i have to a note for you from andy mays because at the end of his episode last week i'll tell you now at the end of his episode last week i just said next up is jill deegan and after we stopped recording he's like he knows jill from like back in the day 100 we well i used to i used to perform with my old friend andrew kennedy we were a little folk duo um and we used to open for andy and the skydiggers at the cabana room on monday nights that's insane that was like just after 1976 no it wasn't quite that far back but it was a ways back that's's impossible. So I've known Andy a long time. Big fan. Yeah.

Good friend. Nicest guy. On earth. Ever. Like just nice. I mean, you're already a nice guy when you agree to come to my basement for a couple hours. Like puts you in that nice guy group, you know, because no, no.

Can I swear? I'm not on CBC, right? No asshole is going to. This is my show. Jill, I can swear on this show. No asshole is going to this is my show Jill I can swear on this show no asshole is going to agree to come over to my basement so I'll more on Andy in a bit but I wanted to share that story because like in this digital age we're all buying tickets online and with credit cards or whatever PayPal whatever but like this whole notion that the only way I was going to get

tickets to the Christmas show on December 22nd at the Horseshoe is I had to get myself physically to some special store in Ossington and pay with cash, too. Like, no credit card. So retro. Amazing. And it felt good to do it. Like, it was a really nice throwback. By the way, oh, I have a song for this. Hold on here.

Can you name this tune? Is that My Three Sons? Yes, it is. Oh my gosh, I know why you're playing that. So just before we do some sponsor mentions and dive in, you have three sons. I do. I have two sons, but three sons.

What kind of age range are we at here? I thought I recognized the vibe down here with a lot of Maple Leaf skier, a kind of age range are we at here? I recognize the vibe down here with a lot of Maple Leaf skier, a lot of sports equipment strewn around the basement. That's the almost 16-year-old

who's obsessed with basketball and hockey are his two big obsessions. Welcome to my, we have a lot in common. So, teenagers,

yours are in that teenage age? Yeah, I've got three teenagers now. Oh, wow. Yeah, 19, 16,

14. Yeah, okay. Full house. I got the 16, I've got three teenagers now. Oh, wow. And yeah, 19, 16, 14. Yeah, okay. Full house. I got the 16 and I've got, well, right now they're 15 and 13. They're almost caught up there, but 19. So, and they're all turning out to be good people. They're such good people. Yeah. People like to scare you, right?

Like, I was always, oh, wait till your daughter's a teenager. Honestly, it's early days, I know, but I got, my son's almost 16 and my daughter's only 13 and a half. But the nicest people on the planet next to Andy Mays. That's right. We've already identified. He takes that title. No, it's great to enjoy the company of your children.

And I will say that I do. So My Three Sons, although it's an older show, before our time. Good for you. That was funny. If they do a remake, although it's an older show, before our time. Good for you. That was funny. If they do a remake, you can star in that show. If people listening want to help crowdfund this massively interesting passion project, please go to patreon.com slash Toronto Mike.

Even give a dollar a month. No pressure, Jill, but I know Mike Wise is on the Patreon list. That's no pressure. You don't have to whip out your wallet or anything, but I know Mike Wise is on the Patreon list. That's no pressure. You don't have to whip out your wallet or anything, but Mike Wise is one of the Patreons. But if you help

give what you can and I can afford to replace all the things that break, like the hard drive or when you need a new mic or boom mic, thank you, Doug Mills,

for the generous contribution for the third swing boom arm thingamabob. It's working out great. So thank you. So patreon.com slash Toronto Mike. Jill, there is a six pack in front of you. I see it.

Now you're driving. I don't want you drinking at all during this discussion. Oh, all right. Be responsible. But you can bring that home. And well, 19 year old son at home, he can partake as well. I had a guest recently. You know Kate Wheeler

from CTV? Well, she was there forever and yet. So her daughter came over because she's an actress and she's in these things. She's a budding actress. And she's only 22, but she looked a lot younger. And I wasn't sure if I should give her the beer. I wanted to see ID before we proceeded here. I don't think it's

responsible. You don't want to get yourself in trouble. Right. I don't want to be handing out a six-pack to a 17-year-old. But your 19-year-old can enjoy it. So that's courtesy of Great Lakes Brewery. They've been a sponsor of this show for a couple of years, and I'll be at their documentary on Sunday at the Kingsway

Theatre, and there's still tickets. Go to the Great Lakes Brewery website and find out how to buy tickets. You get a couple of drinks. You get a new nice pint glass and you get to see the documentary and you can even hang out with me. Maybe I'll wear my exploding pizza shirt, maybe,

if it doesn't explode itself, if it doesn't blow up in flames. So I'll be there Sunday. That's Great Lakes beer. You're going to need a pint glass to drink the Great Lakes Beer in. There is a pint glass. The one, yes. Okay, that's yours. That is courtesy of Brian. I mentioned he has a special message for you, which I'll play in a moment, but that's propertyinthesix.com. So anyone looking to buy or sell in the next six months needs to go to

propertyinthesix.com and have a conversation with Brian. You don't have to sign anything with Brian, but I'm ordering you to converse with the man. He's a solid citizen and a good agent. But let's hear his message for Jill. Propertyinthesix.com Hi, Jill. Brian Gerstein here, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Mike. If you or any of Mike's listeners have any real estate needs, feel free to give me a call at 416-873-0292 and check out propertyinthesix.com. I do hope you enjoy your Great Lakes beer in my pint glass as well.

As an environmentalist, Jill, how do you react to seeing Trump reject the Paris Climate Accord? And is it enough, as Obama just spoke to, having American mayors, business leaders, and academics being the new face of American leadership on climate change? Brian's not messing around here.

Way to dive right in there, Brian. That's a heavy question. Not my question, Brian's question. He doesn't believe in the light chatter. He doesn't want to talk about your three sons. He's right in there. How do we save the world, Jill? Well, we're working on it.

I thought you were going to say we're effed. No, no. No, I don't believe we are. Because really, if you believe we are, I think the rest of the time we have here won't be too pleasant. So I think we've got to keep our spirits up and do what we can. I don't want to sound trite or glib, spirits up and do what we can.

I don't want to sound trite or glib, but I do think that everyone's actions individually do add up. I think they ultimately contribute to... I mean, this is what I... I've written books about this. Yeah, by the way, he's stealing my thunder. I had an environmental book section

in our discussion, but Brian is a sponsor. He's allowed to... Okay, we'll get back to the environment stuff later. I've got gotta warm you up first before we uh save the world okay he's but that's a good question brian and we'll get back to that for sure and paytm jill paytm is an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot. You don't have to visit each separate website to make a payment. All of your bills are on the Paytm app. And the best part is that Paytm pays you to pay your bills.

You can receive 3% cash back on everyday goods like coffee at Tim Hortons and gas at Essel. So visit Paytm.ca and download the Paytm app for free on your smartphone. The promo code that gets you $10 off your first bill payment is Toronto Mike. That's all one word. So download the app at Paytm.ca and use promo code Toronto Mike. And you can thank me later. The nice thing about working at CBC is you don't have to, no ad breaks. None at all. I know this is you don't have to, no ad breaks. None at all.

This is all a foreign entity to you. But thank you for enduring that. Now, we talked earlier about skydiggers and stuff. So Andy tells me a little story. Uh-oh. No, it's a good story. But he's going further back, okay? So he's talking, when you're at McGill, he knows you.

Yeah. So you're, and this is fascinating to me, that you were in a band. So this is, I guess this is when you were with Bag of Hammers. Bag of Hammers, yeah. Can you tell me about Bag of Hammers? Bag of Hammers was a band, it was a great band Kevin Fox who's a great local musician um had a band that uh by a different name and I had just moved oh what year was this anyway I just I'd come back to I wasn't actually at McGill anymore at this point um I think I'd graduated from McGill but I was back in Montreal because it's sort of where my heart felt most at home.

And I met up with this guy, Kevin Fox, and we played music together. And we decided, you know, to start a new band. And he sort of pulled it all together. Anyway, started called it Bag of Hammers. And we played. It was funny. I was thinking about Bag of Hammers just this week because the Horseshoe Tavern celebrating its 70th we played at the Horseshoe among many other places we toured I mean this is what we wanted to do we were going to be full-time musicians we played a lot in Montreal we had a

following called Hammerheads that's perfect and we we yeah it was some great, great years. And yeah, we traveled around. We played in Ottawa. We played in Toronto. We played a little bit. We didn't go out of Ontario. We just sort of, anyway, the band kind of fell apart at kind of an interesting time. We had a manager.

I will say our manager, Patrick Sandbrook, we were the first band he managed. He now manages Sarah Harmer and the Tragically Hip and all kinds of other great bands. Sam Roberts Band. Sam Roberts Band. Yeah. He sort of wet his teeth, cut his teeth rather, on the old bag of hammers. So yeah, it was great. It was great years. I desperately searched for some bag of hammers. I can't tell you how hard I searched for this. You know, because this was all pre-digital era. Mid-80s, I believe. No, late 80s. I don't know. Andy told his story was from

he thought you were at McGill, but his story from Montreal was mid-80s. I graduated McGill in 88. So it was after that. I'm going to say it was 89 to 91 or 2 or something like that. Yeah, that's when I think the Sky Diggers went, I Will Give You Everything comes or something like that. Yeah, that's when... Yeah, that's...

I'm trying to think. The Sky Diggers, when I Will Give You Everything comes out in like 91, I think, or 1990 or 91. Yeah, and I'm trying to remember the years that we opened up for them at the Cabana Room.

Anyway, it was all in that window. That's funny. There is one, and I actually don't know where it is now, but I think... I remember consciously saving one cassette recording. Do you still have it?

A bag of hammers. Yeah, I do. I believe I haven't thrown it away. Whether I could find it in a hurry was another question. I've heard you sing. How have you heard me sing? I'll play it later.

I'm going to save it for my holiday music component of this episode. I don't want to spoil it. So you sang with Bag of Hammers. Sounds like you had little Ontario success going there. So what happens? Is there just so many bands don't make it, if you will? It's tough to crack and become the next...

And I say the next Sky Diggers, like he came here in a Rolls Royce. But my friend Andy does take the TTC, you know what I mean? That's, and then when I said to him, you know, he told me the Jill Deacon story and I, and I said something like, man, such a small world. And he looked at me and said, that's Canada. Like everybody knows everybody and is connected to everybody. So, which is funny, like you're up to 290, but like, it's like, I wish I, you know, in the wire, you have the whiteboard and all the pieces matter and you got Freeman kind of connecting all that. Everybody connects. It's kind of fascinating. I love that you're referencing The Wire. That makes my

heart lift. The entire series is on DVD right there. It's my favorite show of all time. It's one of the greatest shows of all time. And every time I get married, my new wife has to watch it with me. That's my rule. You can watch it now and it doesn't feel i mean

it's timeless that show and it's now in hd so the first two times i went through it all was in sd and now they put it out it's uh streaming i think it's crave tv or something but uh it's streaming in hd now and my oldest who is almost he's 16 in january he's now ready i've deemed him ready for the wires so like he's excited we're gonna go through all 60 episodes together this is our plan in hd which i've never seen it in hd but fantastic i uh reference that show all the time and uh all the pieces matter jill all the pieces matter so patrick sambrook had such a positive experience with bag of hammers and I don't want to like, I want to revisit this because the Tragically Hip is only my favorite band of

all time. So, and the Sam Roberts band is great. And what was the other band you mentioned? Sarah Harmer. Sarah Harmer is fantastic. I'm trying to think of other bands that he mentions that, or that he manages that they're not popping to mind,

but lots of goodies. Do you have, do you have any T tragically hip story or Gord Downie story? We mentioned Canada being such a small world, but did you have any interactions with him? Oh yeah, Gord, absolutely. Do you mind, because I'm

a huge fan, I had the same question for Andy Mays last week, but do you mind sharing anything about Gord? Yeah, I hope I don't cry when I do. Gord, well, he's my neighbor. Lived around the corner from me for many years. My son babysat for his kids.

I used to lifeguard with his, um, wife when we were teenagers. So, um, yeah, I have lots of great, um, memories all very every day. Um, Gord was, um, as, as has been said, um, over and over since he died, you know, he was a good person to everyone he knew. And, yeah. I guess one story about Gord is, you know, I asked him to, I wrote my first book with, you really are trying to make me cry, aren't you? You wouldn't be the first

to sit there and cry. And cry listening to the Tragical Hip. Yeah, the first book I wrote, I asked Gord to blurb it, you know, write a little caption on the back. And he was touring or something, I can't remember and said, you know, I really can't get to it right now.

And he goes, I'll do your next book. And I said, oh, God, I barely pulled this one together. I don't know, I'm never going to write another book. And he said, you know you will. I know you will. He was so encouraging and positive and absolutely clear in his belief that I, you know, could do anything I put my mind to. And so, you know, cut to the next book I wrote.

There's Letting Your Lipstick. And Gord happily blurbed that one. And we had a sort of chuckle about, see, told you so. Yeah, he's a great supporter of everybody. Well, I'm glad you shared this because when I learned he had passed the morning, we all learned he had passed. And again, it's one of those things

that you're not surprised because you know it's coming, but it still hits you like, I hate to say a bag of hammers. Is that too soon? But it hits you like a ton of bricks and then I came down to where I'm sitting right now and I didn't know what to do so I actually recorded like I don't know 25 minutes where I just played and talked about my connection to Gord and the

Hip which is 100 as a fan who's seen them live 12 times and I felt and I've never cried when a celebrity had died ever in my life this is the first time I wept when a celebrity a famous person I had not you know met personally had died and I was feeling. This is the first time I wept when a celebrity, a famous person I had not met personally had died. And I was feeling, it felt like I lost a friend and I was trying to rationalize this. You loved his music, you saw him live, but you actually never actually had a one-on-one chat with the man. But it felt like he was a buddy.

He felt like a friend. And hearing you talk, he was like, he's your neighbor. You mentioned your kid's babies, kids or whatnot. He played hockey with my husband for years. I was very sad, obviously. I'd known he was sick for a long time. His brother and sister-in-law are very dear friends of ours. are very dear friends of ours.

But I... I forget what I was going to say. It's okay. Because you actually knew the man in addition to, I'm sure, being a fan of his art, I can't imagine how it's been for you. So I know what it's like for me. I can only imagine what it's like for somebody. Oh, that it's like for me. I can only imagine what it's like for somebody else. Oh, that's what I was going to say. Sorry.

The thought came back. I forgot how huge Gord was as a musician and artist in the world. I've been reminded every day since the news of his illness came out. But I had...

I always knew him as a friend. And... Yeah. Behind you, by the way, I bought that after... That money goes to the Cheney Wenjack Foundation, and it's the

print from the artist behind The Secret Path. And I love it, so thank you for that very much. All right, to change, I have to change gears on you here, but back in the day, I'm going to get you to Montreal Radio, which is fascinating, but there's a blurb, I believe it's on your bio on your website, but it says something, I'm going to read it verbatim. It says, before establishing her career in journalism, she taught elementary school, maybe it's grammatically, but children with learning disabilities, guided bicycle tours in Europe and New Zealand. So can you touch on those?

That's kind of a fascinating beginning for somebody who was singing in a band that was touring Ontario and then ends up in basically on radio and in journalism. My dad calls me a dilettante. I yeah, so I worked. I used to guide bicycle tours for in the summers university for the travel company Butterfield and Robinson. And I so I yeah, God, it's too late for me to do that. Can I apply? I want to do that. You could. I don't know how the process works now, but you should try because it's a pretty great way to spend your time, great way to see the world,

meet all kinds of interesting people. So yeah, I guided bicycle tours for that company. They were mostly concentrated in Europe at the time. And I went to the president of the company at one point and said, I think you should have some trips in New Zealand and I think you should send me to put them together. And that worked. And that worked. So I went and researched traveling routes and things in New Zealand and put that trip together and then went back and guided it for them. So yeah, that was pretty great.

And at some point mixed in there, I did my graduate degree in education at McGill after I graduated from my undergrad, and I wanted to be a teacher. And I worked for, it was around the same time that I started with Bag of Hammers, so probably 1990 or 91. I worked at a school called Kells Academy for kids with learning disabilities. And yeah, I was a teacher slash teaching assistant.

And it was wonderful. Great, great kids. Good for you. My mom actually did that for a while. And it's tough work, but very rewarding. Great, great kids. Good for you. My mom actually did that for a while. And it's, yeah, it's tough work, but very rewarding. Yeah, really rewarding. It's quite the juxtaposition. And during the day, you're doing that.

And then at night, you're at the horseshoe. Singing rock and roll. Yeah. That's right. You got it. I still want to get a hold of that tape. I got to hear some of this bag of hammers. Now I'm going to go home and pull everything apart.

Look forward. Digitized, man. Digitized. So how do you end up on the radio in Montreal? So I was a part of a improv troupe, a theater sports improvisational sketch comedy troupe in Montreal. It was at McGill. it was when I was doing um my education degree and I yeah just for fun uh in the evenings was part of this sketch comedy troupe and I there was a tournament there were six English language the English community in Montreal is pretty tight there were six English language teams that did improv um and there was a little tournament competition, you know, just a fun thing.

Sure. And they had celebrity judges. And one of the judges at this tournament on one evening was a guy named George Balkin. And he was the morning man of CJD radio, which was the big English language radio station in Montreal, talk radio. of CJD Radio, which is the big English language radio station in Montreal, Talk Radio. And he's the, he was the, I don't know, Wally Crowder, Andy Barry, Matt Galloway,

call it whichever, you know, think of the big name that everybody in the city listens to in the mornings. That was George Balkan. And, um, he contacted the organizer of the tournament afterwards and, and, and who got in touch with me and said, this guy wants to talk to you about working in radio. And he said, my program director wants to meet you. And I said, what, who is this guy? And what does he want with me? You know, I was was teaching i was planning on going off to teach um overseas and he said you're really quick on your feet and live radio is improv and i'd like to have you come and see what you think of radio or whatever so i did a little kind of demo i don't know conversation thing with them in the studio. And, and the

program director, Ted Blackman said, why don't we put together a, they put together a show for me, a beat really, not a single show. It was called Hot Summer Streets. And I was, I remember I was paid $7,000 for the entire summer. So like May, June, July, August. And I worked covering all the live entertainment that happens in this, in that amazing city that is jammed with live entertainment in the summer. So the jazz festival and the comedy festival and you name it, there was an event happening all the time. So I would do a hit in the morning on the radio with George Balkan reviewing something I'd seen the night before. I'd give lineups and listings of what to see that evening. And then in the evenings, I'd go out and see all the live events and then phone in my reviews. I had a

cell phone that was the size of your wire DVD box set. I mean, it was the size of a box of tissues. And we call that the Zack Morris is what we call that because I'm saved by the bell. That was the Zach Morris phone, like a brick, early cell phone with the big kid. And I would be driving home, you know, my stick shift car. And I'd be driving home after this show, trying to phone in my review live on the radio. It was pretty crazy, but the, uh, so in addition, in addition, and I'm going to toot your horn just for a little bit here, but in addition to the quick wit and the improbability, which is key, you really have great

pipes for the radio. You have a great tone to your voice. Maybe you're a singer, you're blushing now, but it's true. I mean, the reason I'm doing a podcast in my basement and I'm not on CBC is I'm lacking those pipes. I don't have the Jill Teakins. See, I don't hear the difference. I don't know. I, I thank you for that compliment. Well, it's tough to hear it in yourself, I suppose.

Yeah. I don't know. I did voice work. I did voice, um, uh, you know, commercial voice work. Well, did you, when you listen back to that, did you ever wonder like, oh, did you ever think, wonder what all the fuss was about? Oh, I can't stand listening to the sound of my voice. That's why I love being on live radio, because I don't have to hear it. I hated it with a passion. And then I started this, which is a terrible thing to do when you hate the sound of your voice. Yeah, that's tricky. It's sort of like leaving your comfort zone.

Apparently Woody Allen never watches his films after he's made them. So you could just never hear your podcasts. But then I would continue to be umming and umming. I would never get better if I didn't listen. I listened to hear what I needed to change and then try to get better as I went along. But you're on the air in Montreal and then you get a call from CBC television.

Am I right chronologically? You have done your homework. You're like Brian Linehan. Look at you with all your research. Yes, I got a call remember when you used to when phone messages you did your cycling and paying in cash for your tickets you remember another little retro moment you remember the pink while you were out of course message slips so the receptionist at CJD radio gave me one of those and I could barely read the handwriting and it was was something CBC, and it was this guy,

Gino Aponi, anyway, and he said, and it said, you know, wanted to talk to me about, I called him, and he said he wanted to, he'd heard me on the radio, and they were looking for a host for their television arts program, and again,

I was planning, I was just about to wrap up my summer gig, again I was planning I was just about to wrap up my summer um gig or I was planning to end my summer my terribly lucrative summer gig on the radio and go try go uh work overseas to teach I was signed up with this teaching program and but I thought whatever I'll just go meet this guy um and talk about it and do this little audition for TV. And at the same, right at the same month, I met my now husband. And so the two factors combined and scuppered that trip overseas to teach. And I wound up, yeah, I got offered this job.

And that was a city beat. At CBC Television I wound up, yeah, I got offered this job. And that was a City Beat. At CBC Television, City Beat, yeah. It sounds to me like I'm not going to be your armchair psychiatrist here, but you're trying to escape. And it's like the Godfather 3, when Michael goes, every time I get away, they pull me back in or whatever. Something keeps pulling me back. So you have Gino and your future husband and these factors at play that won't let you escape. You have to stay.

You're good. Thank you. Yes. Now, you're doing City Beat. You did it for four years. And then is that when you end up on the Discovery Channel? Yeah, I got the phone call. Sometimes people who are trying to get into journalism say,

can I meet with you and talk about how to get into journalism? And I always say, you don't want to talk to me because I have the most unlikely and unfairly uh advantageous you know trajectory because I I literally got the phone call from Gino's and then took that job at CBC and then I got a phone call from uh the executive director at Discovery Channel in Toronto who said hey we're looking for a new host for, you know, would you come and audition? And so I did. So then I moved to back to Toronto, um, where I was born and raised and worked at Discovery Channel on at Discovery Canada with Mr. Jay Ingram as my co-host. Jay Ingram. Fantastic. Yeah. And, uh, various, various

shows like you're doing, uh, I can't remember. I don't have the names down here, but on Discovery Channel Canada and Discovery.ca, several shows you're appearing on? Yeah, there was a show. I did a show called Animal Tracks. There was a show that went to, this was, I guess, a couple of pregnancies and maternity leaves later.

I did leave Discovery after my second, when my second child was born, I decided I wanted to do something new and kind of go freelance. And I, but I did a show for Discovery Channel that went, that aired in the US called Discoveries This Week. It was produced here,

but it was for the American Discovery Channel. And yeah, part of my freelance chapter. was it like with working uh with jay ingram on uh oh he shows how much time have you got so good jay ingram is so everybody knows uh if you read his books and listen to him and watch him on television and everything he's a deeply intelligent person, but he's so generous with all that he knows. He is so much fun. Um, we were good buds. We had, uh, you know, his kids would babysit for my, his kids were older than my, you know, his kids were teenagers by the time I had my first child. And so, uh, yeah, we were good friends. He's moved out west and but i still see i've actually interviewed him recently about his latest book but he's when i when he's in town i usually

try to see him he's a great guy no absolutely i remember he was uh uh quirks and quirks uh yeah for for a long time and i guess did bob take over bob mcdonald i feel like took over from him i feel like it went david suz Jay Ingram, then Bob McDonald. That's quite a trifecta, actually. No wonder I like that show. That's pretty good stuff. And at the same time, you're doing this Discovery Channel stuff. You're on CBC Television's Code Green.

Yeah. So after I left Discovery, I went to, as I said, had a couple of kids, um, well, I had three kids and, uh, and I, yeah, my youngest was a couple of years old and I, I'd been writing books and articles and things about environmental stuff. And there was a show called anyway i got hired a cast to do to host a show called code green that was such a brilliant um concept not mine it was some other clever person's idea and it was a 12 homes across the country competing in a home renovation it was sort of at the when when home reno shows were taking off on hgtv and all those kinds of things and everybody loved watching other people's houses get transformed but this one had an It was sort of at the, when, when home reno shows were taking off on HGTV and all those kinds of things.

And everybody loved watching other people's houses get transformed. But this one had an environmental theme, which is, and it was also at the time that the federal government had a home energy audit program where you could have your home assessed for its energy efficiency and the government would give you money to make your home more energy efficient. And so... What a good idea. This show would evaluate your home at the beginning, then give each home $12,000 to

invest, see who could improve the efficiency of their home and reduce their energy and water consumption the most. And then the winning home, when they got re-evaluated six months six months later after all this renovation won a toyota prius it was pretty uh anyway so i traveled all across the country to all these homes and did that show that was really fun so what comes first when it comes to your uh passion for environmentalism is it is it are you exposed to it here with the stuff you're doing with jay and then it's code green and stuff like where's the chicken no the the the egg chicken whatever uh for me and the environment is really i mean it's the it's my parents my uh the way i was raised my

um i didn't even know i was an environmentalist i just knew that you don't turn the heat up in the winter when you're cold you turn the heat on you just don't turn it you don't waste it you put on a sweater and slippers if you're cold you You, you know, you reuse things. We used to take our tins before there was curbside recycling. I remember, you know, my brother and I would help my mom flatten the tin cans and take them in the back of the car over to the depot at the back of the grocery store. And it just was how we lived. Waste not, want not, kind of the war baby logic. And I also, you know, spent time in nature, especially in the summers, and grew to see the connection between how we operated as consumers and the impact on the planet.

So, yeah, it's just sort of in my DNA. And we'll get to books on the topic, but first let's talk about your CBC. This was a big deal. I was not watching much daytime television at this time, but I remember The Jill Deacon Show. So this is what? I'm sorry for you. The 06, 07. Some things are best left forgotten. No, I'm, I'm kind of kidding. It's okay. Uh, the fact is you're on, uh, this is a national show, CBC's flagship daytime television show, the Jill Deacon show. Uh, I guess I did it

a couple of years. You'll, you'll let me know let me know. But tell me how that came about. And now I really want to hear what that experience was like. It was, well, and I make it sound worse than it was. So the, yeah, the Code Green show that I mentioned had aired on CBC television. And through that, I'd kind of gotten back on the radar of people at CBC. And they knew that they wanted to get into, uh, what they now have a whole department called factual entertainment. And they were just sort of starting to think that they should have some kind of daytime, um, daytime talk show,

which wasn't something that had been, they didn't have anything of that kind at that time. So I will say that the show that they wanted to do, you know, is the goods that's now on TV or the Stephen and Chris show that was its predecessor. And, and it's so great. And the people that are doing that are so great at it. And I, the reason I sort of chuckle about is that I really wasn't, um, you know, I had so much fun working on that show and I, um, learned a lot, but I, I had little kids. I was kind of, I had no idea of how hard work it would be to launch a national television show with my name on it. Um, and I didn't, I don't know if I really was, I think I put it this way. I think I'm way better suited to the kind of work I do now, which is in radio where the conversations

are longer and they're about, um, different things. And I wasn't, so anyway, I think I was, um, the Jill Deacon shows own Achilles heel. It's a pot. I mean, it sounds like perhaps I get this feeling from you. Like you don't want to fake it. Like it needs to be sort of like, you know what I mean? And like maybe doing the Jill Deacon. You are good, Mike. It's my hobby.

You're a little podcast therapist here. Only because the reason, I mean, I like doing this, which does not pay my mortgage, although I do get some beer out of it. But is uh like I can be like I don't have to I don't have to do any shtick like there's no I don't there's no phoniness here uh because I I'm gonna be if I'm gonna be phony somebody's gonna pay my mortgage like that'll be the trade-off so it sounds like maybe you uh it wasn't a great fit for you because you had to play this this role which it's not gonna call it cheesy but you know to play this role, which I'm not going to call it cheesy,

but I watched some clips when I prepared for this. It's just different. You're very astute in getting to the heart of it, which is that the authenticity I couldn't bring because I love, I'm very interested in fashion in so far as I like getting dressed and I'm interested in clothes

but I don't know enough or care enough about all the lengths I love cooking, I cook all the time I'm passionate about food but I don't I just couldn't I guess there were some aspects of, I, I just couldn't. Anyway, there were,

I guess there were some aspects of it I could bring more to than others. And I just, um, it was a very good learning experience. George Drombalopoulos had the dressing room next to me and he said to me, you know, the other point I will say is that the show didn't know what it was because it didn't exist. We were making it up. Like we were trying to figure out what it was. I think if I'd taken over a preexisting show and been clear on what it was, I was supposed to be doing, maybe that would have worked better. But George said to me, you know, your name's on this, you got to own this and make it yours. And I didn't know how to do that. And I, as I say, I was really distracted. I had a two year old and a four year old and a six year old, you know, I was trying to be there for them.

I was kind of trying to do it all. And I should have invested more in thinking about how to make it my own. Anyway. I mean, for what I saw in the clips, because I actually wanted to like isolate the theme song and play it, but I couldn't find a good clip. But I got a lot of people like, for example, and I'll make this up, but if there was like a fan club for some singer at the time

and she appeared on your show, they would upload the clip of her, the singer, on the Jill Deacon show. And then you could watch that clip. Like, there was a lot of that going on in YouTube. Definitely. So, you don't get the opening theme or anything, but you get, so you get a taste. And it doesn't know, I got the feeling, like, it was kind of trying to be a variety show, but it was also trying to be city line. Like, it was kind of like a... Yeah, we... And you're right, it didn't exist, right? We i i got the feeling like it was kind of trying to be a variety show but it was also trying to be city line like it was kind of like a yeah we and you're right it didn't exist right so we're trying to figure out what it was what it wanted to be meanwhile you um you might not have been uh comfortable with the uh uh having to fake stuff and lack of authenticity

and then you're distracted because i can i mean i know what it's like to have kids that age, uh, at home and, uh, it's. And you know, I, this sounds strange, but I, I, I often think that I, I'm kind of a fundamentally shy person. I'm not, I don't come across that way because I'm pretty good at, you know, chatting with people and whatever, but I'm much more comfortable in radio because I can, I feel like it's just me in a room with matt luellen and whatever and it's just it's just a conversation conversation right and it's not me having to um sing and dance even though i love singing and i've heard you sing i don't know if i make a lot of sense that's right we need to bring bag of hammers back it's time i think i think you were just ahead of your time I think the time is now

okay so the Jill Deacon show runs in 06 and 07 and then you the show ends so I guess do they pull the plug or oh yeah the you know it was we were basically told as the executive producer said you know we thought we had a longer runway

the show was figuring itself out. It was growing. The ratings were picking up. But it wasn't happening fast enough. Do you remember what daytime show took its place? Do you have any? Yeah, the Stephen and Chris show. Okay, that's okay.

Not immediately. I think they took a few, I don't remember how long, but they took some time to reassemble. A lot of the same team worked on that show and continues to work on the goods. And they're all so good at what they do. They're just, I think I'm, I was, I was the problem. Were they given shirts like this?

That's what I want to know. It would have been a nice Christmas gift. Almost a little. Yeah, almost. So when that show ends, you, again, you know, you kind of, you mentioned this earlier, but you're not out there hustling. The things kind of come to you. Maybe, you know, things you've got, I won't call it luck because you have to be good to

be lucky. That's the thing. You can't just be lucky. But Penguin, does Penguin come to you to write the books on environmentalism? Andrea Magyar, who was the editor of that book, Green for Life. She approached me and said, you know, we know that you're a passionate environmentalist and we want to publish a book about the kinds of stuff that I wrote and talked about,

which was the everyday, how... Baking it into your everyday... Yes. So it's not like a diet, it's just a lifestyle modification. It is, and it's how i i always feel that as an individual who cares about the world which i think is generally true of pretty much most of us um we often feel overwhelmed by the headlines and the news and the decisions the governments are making that are way beyond our control so what can we do uh to feel that we making a difference? And that was the goal of

Green for Life was trying to show ways that you can incorporate changes into your world and educate people about options that exist, you know, that would be, allow people to live more lightly on the earth. So 2008 Green for Life, which is a very short, snappy, catchy title, Green for Life. And then in 2011, this is a much longer title. I'm going to read the whole thing. I need to take a breath beforehand, though. There's lead in your lipstick, toxins in everyday body care and how to avoid them. You got it.

So that one's a longer title. But that's the follow-up in 2011. And that's pretty cool. Like you said, common sense alternatives and practical solutions for leaving a smaller ecological footprint. And I mean, I don't know how books work in Canada. I once had Stephen Brunt here and he told me the only books that make money are, he told me, hockey books that come out for Christmas. This is what Stephen Brunt told me. Well, did you see Michael Redhill's post in the, he posted online, he wrote in the Globe and Mail after, and he told me, I

think first on Here and Now, the day after he won the $100,000 Giller Prize, and he took that check to the bank, and he deposited it, and showed his bank, excuse me, his bank statement. It was a $100,468. I mean, he's a man who's written all kinds of, he was shortlisted for a previous Giller Prize. He said, oh, he was longlisted for the Booker Prize for another novel. I mean, he's a very well-regarded and well-established Canadian writer. And that tells the story. Part of what I like, I call real talk, is that... When I had Chris Murphy from Sloan on here,

in my mind, because I was a teenager in the 90s, to me, Sloan was like... They were the Beatles, okay? Sloan was a big freaking deal. And I can get you my water. Oh, I'm good. Okay, sorry. I was going to say, I was surprised to hear

how normal his lifestyle is, like how he's not a rich guy. I'm always surprised to hear this stuff. And in Canada, you you'd have bestselling books. And Stephen Brunson said, unless it's a hockey book out for Christmas, you're not going to make any money. So I, both of my first two books were national bestsellers many times over. There's Letting Your Lipstick was on the bestsellers list for week after week after week. And I've never made a penny off either. That's fascinating to me.

You know, I got paid my advance and you have to earn out your advance. The advances aren't free. Because you have to pay that back? Like if you don't sell your book? You get an advance. No, no, you don't pay it back. Okay, good.

But it lives in the minus column on your statement from your publisher forevermore. I'm fascinated by that. Because yeah, I see now I have a note here that it's a national bestseller and an Amazon top 100 book. And it spent several weeks on the Globe and Mail bestseller list. I thought for sure you would be flying here like a helicopter would land in my backyard. My chauffeur's just out back. Yeah, that's right. Oh, that's funny. The only one who came up a chauffeur is Jay Onright. Bell Media

splurged for a driver when he came over. That's how big a deal Jay and Dan are on that TSN network um great now you I guess now you can I guess the real money I would guess and I don't know is uh speaking engagements you would can you speak on public speaking I did for a while that was my lot my job was I wrote columns and books and took public speaking gigs when you're talking about environmental issues and about toxic chemicals, you're not getting a lot of big corporate high paying gigs. And even magazines didn't want to publish my columns after there's let in your lipstick came out. Cause a lot of magazines, women's magazines have all their advertising from a lot of the companies that

were, yeah. If you're going to out i'll make it up but you go off on a leading uh lipstick manufacturer that's paying big money with a magazine and i didn't really that book isn't really about going off on companies and product it's specifically it's more about ingredients and about educating people about the toxins in that can cause cancer and other things. And so it, it, it was anyway, it just became, yeah. You did do, you did do a lot of writing for Chatelaine though, right? I did. Yep. I wrote a column for Chatelaine for a while called Green for Life. Cool. All right. Now I need to ask you about your health. This is a very personal part of

the podcast. That's okay. You look great. You look great. You sound great. I've written a whole other book about that. So there's nothing you can't ask me that I haven't already shared. As I told John Gallagher, you know, once you put it in a book, I can ask you about it. That's like the code.

Up for grabs. So please, you're a breast cancer survivor. And the book you're referring to is your memoir, Naked Imperfection. You got it. Tell me, first of all, tell me, how is your health today? My health today is good. Yeah, it's really good. I have more doctor's appointments than most people I know, but I check in with oncologists and have follow-ups regularly, but I feel good and feel pretty blessed to feel good. So yeah. And naked imperfection, share a little bit, like what was that? What was that? So what happened was I was writing There's Lead in Your Lipstick. I was halfway through a book about researching, you know, really blood boiling over about all the, as I was learning, all the chemicals that we don't even realize we're being slathered in by products that we assume must be safe because they're on the aisles of our local drugstore and so on. And we assume that some protective body is looking out for us and

there's no actual research being done on all those chemicals. And so anyway, I was kind of up to my eyeballs in all that research and anger and frustration and halfway through the Let In Your Lipstick book when I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Just a random lump that I felt and thought, okay, I'll get it checked out. And whoa, not what I expected. So I go through all my treatments and so on and got my strength back and got back to it and knew I had to finish.

I'd been paid my little advance and I spent it. So I had to finish the book. But I didn't have the same, I just couldn't summon the same passion for, we're going to change the world here. I just didn't have it. I didn't know what, anyway, I finished the book and was really, you know, proud of it and everything. But I kind of was curious about this different feeling that I had. And I started writing from a different place. And I wound up getting accepted to the Banff Literary Journalism Program. And I went to spend a July, July 2010, I spent the month in Banff at the Banff Arts Centre and worked on what became Naked Imperfection. At the

time, I thought it was just an essay I was writing about sort of trying to reconcile the, but I thought I knew how to fix the planet and I couldn't even, you know, keep myself free from harm. So questioning everything and trying to make it into art. And so I came home and I just kept writing. And then my editor from those other two books said, hey, do you want to work on a new book? And I said, well, I've got this writing. I don't know. It's just for me. I don't think anybody wants to read it. And she said, let me see it. And so they loved it and they published it. She said, let me see it. And so they loved it and they published it.

That kind of self-reflective work is, like, I love that stuff. Like, your editor, very wise. Like, yeah, that, that, that. And I can see your nature kind of a little humble. Like, why would anybody kind of be interested in my self-reflection here? Yeah, it was a personal story, but it was very cathartic to write it.

I couldn't imagine anyone wanted to read it. And others, I mean, battling with cancer, like everybody knows somebody who has battled cancer. And I wish I had written down whose quote this is. But I was reading, some people were talking about your book, Naked Imperfection. And this line, I wrote down the line and it's in quotes. So I did not write this. Someone else did. But I don't have the name of the person who did it, which is awful, but I'm going to read it anyway because it's my show, darn it. The humble acceptance of weakness was a revelation to me. Letting others love you is itself an act of love. And this was somebody writing about... No, that's me. Is that you? That's a line from the book. Oh my God. Okay. That's a line from the book. my god i had because i have no

one no no you attributed it you just didn't know you're attributing it yes well then this all works out nicely which is i love that um and i'm so it's it's fascinating how you know you you i mentioned you've been very lucky lucky throughout your career you have to be good to be lucky but you were lucky that you got these calls please do this and then it worked out for you and this is one of those unlucky moments so you have a breast cancer jill this, but you were lucky that you got these calls, please do this. And then it worked out for you. And this is one of those unlucky moments. You have a breast cancer, Jill. This is not a lucky moment. That's right. It was payback for all the good cards I'd been handed.

The universe was evening things out. And it's what did your battle with cancer teach you? So essentially this unlucky thing, this lemons that you've been delivered, you can go off and make some lemonade for everybody. So. Yeah, I guess. I mean, I did try to, as I say, kind of write it through and figure it out. You know, everybody who has any unfortunate thing befall them kind of questions a lot. You know, why did this happen to me? What did I do wrong? How do I

make this sense of this? How do I get through this? Whatever. So sorting all that out in, I mean, writing's really the best way to sort out a lot of things, I think. And that was what I have heard. And it means more to me than you can imagine when I do hear from people through email, um, that they've read the book and, you know, it helps them understand their friend who's going through it, or they themselves have gone through something similar and just found some comfort there. So that's, you know, it was worth it for sure. And I, the reason I thought that quote was from somebody, cause I had, I was writing these great pieces about your book and it was fantastic. And I actually intended to grab a quote,

but my crack research staff let me down on this one. So they apologize. I apologize on their behalf. Sorry about that. I'm glad to hear that you are feeling good. And I have like, I have a very close friend who was diagnosed with cancer. And then he, I guess every year he goes,

I'm not, he explains to me like every year he goes back for some special tests or whatever. And so you're right. I suppose you're, is it for the rest of your life you will have these doctor appointments to ensure everything is okay? Or at some point do you get a break? I think at the 10 year mark,

which I'm getting, I think I'm a couple of years away from that. I've been taking a drug that I think I get to go off in 10 years. And I think the doctor's appointments may taper off at that point as well. I mean, I say I have so many doctor's appointments. I have still a couple of oncologists and I see them, you know, every six months alternating. So I think I'll see them less after 10 years. Okay, good. We're almost there. 10 month anniversary. Excellent. That's good news.

Let's talk about here and now, where I listen to you these days. So tell me how you end up as the host of Toronto's Afternoon Drive show on CBC Radio 1, here and now. So I am writing those books, giving those speeches, as I mentioned, doing just my freelance life, raising my three kids. And I thought I should probably supplement, you know, do a little freelancing on the radio. So I contacted, uh, the then, I don't even know what his title was, executive something or other, uh, who oversaw Q. And I contacted the woman who oversaw here and now. And I said, I am available if you want any backfill. And I started backfilling at Q, um, fairly soon thereafter. And then I

did some backfill at Here and Now. They asked me to do a couple of weeks. And somewhere around there, I found out that the previous host was no longer working there. So they were actually in a bit of a holding pattern. So I was probably technically auditioning. Well, I remember this period there

was rotation it was i don't know five or six hosts that kind of rotated out i remember you were one of them uh this is like 20 2010 2011 maybe uh well here maybe 12 yeah i can't remember okay because you're speaking about uh laura de batista who took over she took over for matt galloway when matt galloway took andy berry's uh spot yes i think that's how the sequence went right and then uh they made it they decided that it wasn't a good fit for laura in 2012 and then i remember the auditioning like the different voices yeah there was a revolving door there for a while which i'm sure drove listeners bonkers because it's hard radio is such a uh a a ritual, a connection,

a kind of consistent medium that people like their news at a certain time and their relationship with a certain host at a certain time. So anyway, it was probably pretty hard to hear a rotating cast for a while. No, you nailed it there. I think especially with those two spots, the morning drive, Metro Morning, and then the Here and Now, which is the afternoon drive. Those two especially, the familiar voice and personality, I think, is key for the regular listeners. Absolutely. So I have a question for you. By the way, if people don't know, why don't you know this, but Here and Now is on 99.1 here in Toronto, 99.1 FM from 3 p.m. until 6 p.m. You got it.

Come on. Thanks, Mike. Come on. And no ads. I just want to say the best part of CBC Radio is you don't have to have the advertisements. But Mike G, this is a different Mike. He has a question about here and now. Ask Jill if she is often compared to Matt Galloway.

Both are great hosts, but they have different styles. That's Matt. Mike G. Both are great hosts, but they have different styles. That's Mike G. It's funny, Mike G. I think the only person who... Nobody has ever said to me anything about, oh, how come you don't do... I think the only person who compares me to Matt Galloway is me. And always thinks,

well, Matt probably would have done that better. Or I hear him in the morning and think... No, you're both very bright. You're both very bright and very good at your jobs. And I, like Matt's been here, I'm a big fan, but you're a little bit funnier. Can I say that? A little wittier. I think you just did.

You know what? Here's how I think about here and now. I think of, we start at three, as you mentioned, we go till six. So what's happening at that time of day? Everybody's running out of steam. They perhaps have had a busy day at work. They've still got places to get to, to deliver children. They may have a long commute ahead of them. They may have a big meal they have to prepare in the kitchen, whatever. There's a lot coming together at the of the day. And everybody's, as I say, running out of gas. So I view the role of the host of

a show that's on at that time of day to be your entertaining, engaging companion who's going to kind of lighten the load, if you will. I mean, you have still, I can't change, you know, how bad the traffic is. I can't change how annoying your boss was or how loud your kids are in the back seat, but I can try and bring some, you know, hopefully really good conversations about important things happening in your city and your world and also make it fun. Play some good music, make you feel part of something. I think the moments when here and now makes me the happiest is when, and the most sort of fulfilled is when we experience, we find ways to connect people who are listening in different circumstances and make us all feel a little

closer together. So that's, that's what we do. And that, I think all that to say, I think that allows for, um, quite a different tone and, um, degree of humor than, than you can. I mean, the morning show has its levity, but it has a, I think people are more kind of getting up, getting going, chop, chop, let's go. What's happening in the world? I got to do this. And I want to make sure that happens. And there's a little bit more of that energy required in a morning show. So I don't know if Matt has the liberty to be as funny maybe or as loose.

I don't know. But you and Matt are both fantastic. I think CBC has the right people in those spots for what it's worth. Well, thank you. That's nice of you to say. Absolutely. I would agree. I have hosted Metro Morning at Backfield a couple of times when Matt was away. I am so wildly unsuited for that time of day.

What time do you wake up to fill in for Metro Morning? What time does that alarm go off? Well, three, I think. That's insanity. It's just, yeah. And I'm not, as I said, three teenagers at home, you think I can fall asleep at eight o'clock at night? Forget it.

That's when things are just ramping up. So it was, yeah, those were never good stretches when I filled in at Metro Morning. When Andy Barry announced he was stepping down, the biggest no-brainer decision I think the CBC ever made is that Matt Galloway leave Here and Now and take over that to me was like the slam dunk of the century and I think they do

and I thought I listened during Laura DeBattista when she was doing Here and Now and it just no disrespect to her and nothing bad to say about Laura except it just wasn't the best fit in my opinion where I find your demeanor and your approach to it all is better. So good.

Thank you. I didn't listen to the show then, so I don't know that. But I thank you for the kind words. Now, I have a question. Since CBC, of course, is the public broadcaster and you don't have to run the ads on CBC Radio 1, so the ad revenue is not essential for paying the bills over there. So what does it mean to you at CBC when the rating books come out? So yesterday, I got some... Actually, Mark from At 1236 had some high-level adults 12 and over according to the PPM book that just came out. Here are the shares or whatever for everybody. And, you know, CBC Radio 1 always does quite well.

I think CHFI had the highest or whatever, but you guys were number two or whatever. But what does that mean for the public broadcaster? Like, it's a different animal, right? It is. It's a different model altogether than private broadcasting. So I think everybody pays attention to those tallies, those ratings for different reasons in the case of the

public broadcaster i think you need to know that what you're doing you know because the public broadcaster is in service of the public uh of everybody in the listening area we should be if we're doing our job right um you know responding to to and respecting and reflecting all of, as many of those listeners and viewers, in the case of television, as possible. So I think the ratings matter as a measure of that. They don't help us sell more expensive ads, but they help us, you help us justify taking tax money

to do what we do. But in the same breath there, part of what I like about CBC is you haven't dumbed it down yet. And I say yet because I hope it doesn't happen, but you could argue potentially if you wanted more ears, maybe you'd dumb it down a shade,

which might not serve the mandate. So to me, I always wonder, how important is it to you that Mac Galloway beats, who's over there, Maureen Halloway and the gang on CHFI? To me, they're very different organisms. You know what, I always take great delight in seeing that programming that is focused on an intelligent conversation, engaging with important issues that hope to drive policy and change and help us all understand and engage with our city and our world in a more, you know, dynamic way. If those kinds of programs are doing well in the world, I feel, I feel good about things. Now, much like Metro Morning, your show here now is what I would call

like a heavily produced show. Like there's a, I'm assuming there's a lot of people on there doing research. I love that. I love, you should just hold onto that image. Is it all you Jill? No, that's a big fat fantasy right there. Um, no, here and now is the, uh, I like to say here and now operates on, uh, or like a car that has to run on like an old banana peel and some leftover, uh, fumes. It's, um, it's, and I say that with all respect to the team that puts it together. It's just that it's a tiny team. So we have, um, so Metro Morning's got all the bodies, uh, they, they've got the head count or whatnot working. Yeah. I mean, I'm just curious how the, uh,

how the sausage is made. Like, well, can you give me an idea? Like how many people work on here now? Um, so there's, uh, there's two producers, two Chase producers, and the show producer and me. And so we have a meeting in the mornings. And Metro Morning just has a few more of those Chase producers and people. They have more bodies for sure. Afternoon shows right across the country are, it's no secret, they're less funded, less resourced.

There are shows in smaller markets where they actually only have to run two hours of afternoon drive programming and not three, where there's just a host and a technician. There's nobody else. So they run, there's a syndication service that CBC runs where there's a team of producers who find content that is relevant to the day. So, you know, yesterday, they'd get somebody to analyze the impact of President Trump's decision to move the US embassy to Jerusalem. What does that mean? That's a story that everyone in the country is talking about. So instead of having 22 afternoon show producers all chasing and finding their own guests to talk about an important big story like that the syndication unit which is a small team in and of itself

they will find a guest and they will make that guest available to all the afternoon shows and you just pick your time oh we need that guest at you know at 407 and you know edmonton's got them at 425 or whatever so everybody so that's a great help to the afternoon shows that are otherwise quite under or simply staffed, you might say. So yeah, the two producers and the show producer and me. And so we have a meeting in the morning

and we talk about what we think is interesting slash important slash timely. What time in the morning? I'm just curious. 10, 15. So that's like when your day begins at CBC? That's when my day at work begins. Yeah, that's when I get to work.

And so they, so, and then the two Chase producers, we'll come up with ideas. Everybody pitches ideas and figure out ways. How can we get at, who should we talk to about this? Um, you know, change to auto insurance or whatever. And then they go off and they try and the two producers work the phones in there. I don't know how they do what they do.

They're fantastic. And they, they have contacts and ideas and research capabilities that are wildly, um, you know, beyond mine. And so they come up with, um,

guests and they pre-interview them and make sure that they're going to be on a lamp, on a, beyond mine. And so they come up with guests and they pre-interview them and make sure that they're going to be on a good sounding line and they can say intelligent things that have bearing on what we want to talk about. They do like a pre-interview of something. Yes, whenever they can. Make sure they can string a sentence together. That's right. And they line them up and they'll say, excuse me,

they'll say, okay, you've got this person, you know, at this time. And they'll write a script. And they'll write a script with an introduction, with the key pertinent information, and then a suggested line of questions. And then I work with that. And I seldom change the, I wouldn't make much change to the introduction

because that's just the facts that we're laying out. But then once we get into the body of the conversation, it's my job to follow the puck. And I, so I, if you say something that I need to learn more about, I will go off the script and follow that. My pet peeve with some interviews are when they stick to the script

and then the person said, the person they're interviewing says something, oh, that opens up and they don't follow up on. And I yell at my television or radio, like, how could you not ask a follow-up question? Because they're going to the next question on their list. You know what? I agree with you.

That's a pretty common pet peeve, I think. But it's harder than when you're listening, you think, oh, why didn't they do that? But when you're in the... I just have empathy for people who are right in the moment. Because it's live. It's live in many cases. You've got a director. You may have something going on in your

ear. Sometimes they'll say, the next guest isn't available. Go to the song after that. Here and now is the most rock and roll show. Like everything happens on the fly. You know, Nelson Mandela died when we were on the air. Prince died an hour before we went to air.

Um, uh, accidents happen that huge things erupt in the city and in the world when we're live on the radio. So we have to change the entire rest of the show once that happens. That's why they hired the, the improv master. That's right.

So it all comes full circle. Indeed. So yeah, it can be, I know what you mean. And that's frustrating to listen to somebody drop a thread that you wanted them to pick up. But I do have empathy also for. Well, I actually get what you mean. Because when you know you're live, like it's sort of like being on Jeopardy. I think like when you're at home in Jeopardy like it's easy bang bang bang look I'm

kicking their butts but when you're live and you're like at the moment something that you always know right away might you have you draw that blank like you know when you can't this happens to me a lot even recording this which is not live I'm I don't edit it but I'm gonna you know you're not gonna edit out the part that where I just did that where I never train of thought never I love those my favorite parts the the authenticity the the raw stuff but i won't edit a thing but um sometimes like for example i'll make up a lead singer of the rolling stones right we all know it's mick jagger and of course you know that from the time you're four years old you know mick jagger's lead singer of the rolling stones but that'd be an example where what's the guy you'll just you know this is you have this picture in

your head and you can hear him in your head. What's that guy's name? Oh yeah, Mick Jagger. And somebody listening is like, how can you not know that? But in the moment, it's like, yeah, it's a phenomenon. You can do funny things too. Absolutely. Do you have any post-show meetings like with producers?

So you do the morning one. Do you have to do an after? No, because by six o'clock when we get off the air, and that's the beauty. I remember when the producer who hired me to start backfilling, she said, the nice thing about this job is you don't have to take it home with you. And when I turn off my microphone at six o'clock, I am done work 100% because tomorrow's news hasn't happened yet.

So I don't have to prepare. And I mean, I have to stay generally informed about the world, but I don't have to. It's both the madness of here and now and also the beauty of here and now that you can't really prepare it very much in advance. hosting Q, particularly when Shad was host. I like Shad. I loved his music forever, and I like Shad's a great guy. I don't think Q is for Shad. This is my personal opinion. And I felt like sometimes you would

guest host Q and I would be like, like, that's how it should be. Shad's amazing, but he wasn't a right fit in that gig. And eventually the powers that be realized the same thing because he's no longer host of Q.

Maybe he's doing other things of CBC. Yeah, he just won, I think, an international Emmy for a documentary series he worked on about hip hop. Is that all? It's very good. That's very cool. I got to check that out. I love hip hop.

But I was wondering, was there anything to that? Like, were you just filling in for Q or were you, was there any, anything like auditioning for Q? Was this ever anything that was pitched to you or a thought? I, you know, when the first debacle unfolded, I was, that's a good, I can't, I think you'd have to ask the executives in charge whether I was ever, I mean, they knew me because I'd been back billing and I did show, I think they were looking for, I guess, obviously they were looking for something else. And they went in the direction with Shad and then, you know made that change again later so but as it became apparent that the Shad this might not be working out for Shad in Q uh it seemed like you were on more and more I don't know if this was just like a perception like maybe there was more vacations for Shad and well he when he started part like right from the get-go he had a four day a week arrangement and I think what you're referring to is a decision that was

made by the, I think, senior producer. I can't remember. They had had a rotating cast of fill-ins on the Friday or the Monday or whatever day that Chad wasn't hosting. And they just decided, you know what, let's not have so much variety. Let's just keep it the same person. And they liked, I loved that team. We got along really well. Always loved that show and had done it a lot. So I think that was just easy for them to pop me in there. And, and it was always a pleasure to do so.

Yeah, I think that's why I, you heard me a lot for a stretch on cue. You sounded good there. Thank you. It's a great, I love there thank you it's a great i love that show it's a great um great place to visit even though it's now a small case cue a lowercase cue big difference there that's a huge change hope there was a press release about that i want to uh just let you know

so i'm listening i'm a big fan of Ubiquitous Synergy Seeker. And he's been on the show. Ash has been on the show. Oh, lucky you. Yeah, he's got this frenetic mind, which I find kind of fascinating, the way he thinks and articulates. Like it's like,

the synapses are kind of going and it's just bizarre conversation, but always interesting. Oh, I can imagine. I've interviewed those guys too. And I heard them recently, The Sounds of the Season. I heard them perform on here and now. And that's,

I'm going to, that's, this all comes together nicely because we're going to kind of close with some chats about, a chat about music. Since you were a former musician, we're going to start talking about holiday music. Well,

they're holiday music. It's also like, we can call these Christmas songs. There's not like, I don't have a good Hanukkah song coming up or whatever. So Christmas music, Christmas songs. And I asked you for your these Christmas songs. I don't have a good Hanukkah song coming up or whatever. So Christmas songs. And I asked you for your favorite Christmas songs. And the first one you told me about was We Need a Little Christmas.

It just so happens. And I was searching desperately for Bag of Hammers audio. I searched everywhere. But I couldn't find. But I did find. I know what you have. Yeah. I'm going to just start playing it.

And then we can just chat about it. But this is you. I think it's 2014, on Sounds of the Season, and you're singing your favorite holiday song, We Need a Little Christmas. Woo! Woo! Do you find it difficult to listen to yourself sing? Yes.

Yes. It sounds like it's in key to me. I don't know. You tell me. It sounds okay to me. I can't sing that well. I think it's in key to me. I don't know. You tell me. This sounds okay to me. I can't sing that well. I think it's fine. It's fine.

It's fine. I just... No, I love singing. I love singing. I think you did great. This sounds good to me. So that's We Need a Little Christmas. That was live in Glenn Gould's studio for Sounds of the Season. Yeah. That's

why the acoustics are kind of echoey in there. Why don't you do that every year or do I just miss it? Um, no, you know what? I did it for a couple of years. I'm trying to remember the other year that I sang something else, but, um, last year I was recovering from, I was in the middle of having pneumonia. So I was kind of of came crawled out of my sickbed for the day to do Seance of the Season so we didn't do it then and then this year yeah we didn't Matt Llewellyn and I are always threatening to do a duet which we uh we have to we're so busy doing our all the other shows of the year we always run out of time to prepare for that baby it's cold outside I think that's what we were planning. That's the go-to.

Yeah. Come on. Even though I've heard it. Next year. Tiny bit. I don't know what to call it. A little insensitive. Some of the parts of it are a little rapey. Is that a term then?

I guess if you could dissect the lyrics. Oh, I have to think more about the lyrics. You have to revisit those lyrics. Okay. Which it's probably harmless stuff from the time and stuff. But there's a lot of like, I really like a little lot of coercing to stay slipping something in the drink or something there's something about slipping something in the drink or whatever okay i'm gonna revisit that but if you analyze every piece of art we'll have nothing left that's all i'm gonna say but i hope you still do the uh maybe

it's cold outside but i asked you what another of your favorite holiday songs is uh this classic i'm gonna play it. And I said, well, which version do you love? And you're like, pick any version. So I happen to have two favorite versions of this song because it's one of my favorites. I fell in love with this song because Homer Simpson, he sings this song when he's a young boy and he has a very high pitch to his voice.

And I remember Homer's dad, Abe Simpson, is in the church, in the pews, and he's like, oh, my boy's got the voice of an angel. And I think Abe thinks that he's going to get rich off this. I don't know. Do choir singers get rich? I had no idea. But in this episode, they do. But then Homer's voice changes in the middle of this song.

And Homer gets the voice he has now, and he can't sing. He can't stay on key. And Abe loses out on his millions. But I love this. I heard it then and I then start seeking out different versions. So I'm going to play my two favorite versions. This is John McDermott.

We're going to let this brew here. Oh, holy night The stars are brightly shining. It is the night of the deusipio's birth. It's getting festive in here. Such a beautiful song. It's a beautiful melody. Did you always love this song?

I remember singing this song in a choir when I was in fourth grade. It's a beautiful song to sing. I think as a singer, what I'm drawn to in music is the ebbs and flows and the valleys and peaks of melody. And this one has lots of good stuff from that point of view. Here's the part that Homer nailed when he was young. See, I'm not a religious guy, but this song, it's a beautiful song. It's like when you see a beautiful church and that's like,

that architecture is gorgeous. And you're right, there's something about the way the song works that just, here it comes here. Divine Oh night Oh night Divine So that's John McDermott and that's a great version but I'm going to play another one and there's a little story behind it

but this version actually has no words to it. There was an Aaron Sorkin show that didn't last very long. I liked the Aaron Sorkin show. It was called 60... Give me a second. You might remember it. 60... 60 Sunset Strip. 60 D it. 60 Sunset Strip. 60 Degrees of Sunset Strip.

I honestly can't remember the name exactly. Something about 60 Sunset Strip something or other. Okay. And it came out the exact same time as 30 Rock because I remember both shows were like fake SNLs, like fake Saturday Night Live casts. So it's like a show in a show or whatever. And this Aaron Sorkin one, which had Matthew Perry in it and a bunch of names, you know, but there was an episode where, so Katrina had just happened and decimated New

Orleans. And there was a scene where they, the band faked being sick. So they had to bring in New Orleans jazz musicians to get them a payday because their hardships uh from katrina and this is a christmas episode and the uh band called i believe they were called uh tipitina's foundation from new orleans they play this version of oh holy night and like i heard it on the show and i had to seek it out and this is this is making me cry this is gorgeous yes and it's funny because you think you love oh holy night because of the uh lyrics or the no it's the melody music but this is yeah i know i just i find this very moving i have trumpet players in my house and jazz musicians my kids so this is i'm gonna get this one well i will send you the mp3 of this track because

it's uh yeah it's great so i think you picked a couple of winners but uh your version of we need a little christmas is my favorite version of we need a little christmas nice and oh holy night i like the john mcdermott and the tippetina Foundation. But I have a series on this podcast called Kick Out the Jams, where guests come back a second time to play and discuss their 10 favorite songs of all time. Oh my gosh, can I come back for that? Because you asked me to pick one favorite song and I was doomed. I couldn't pick one. I kept sending emails. Oh, maybe it's this one. No, no, it's this one. You're right. I think you might have accidentally picked 10 songs already because there are a lot

of changes. But okay, so who was just here doing it? Ed Keenan from the Toronto Star just came over to kick out the jams. Steve Simmons from The Sun was here. Jim Van Horn was here. There's 26 people have kicked out the jams so far. And in fact, I'm trying to get Dwight Drummond to come back and kick out the jams as well.

But I would love in 2018 for you to return and kick out the gems. But let's do a little teaser here. All right. So let me play it and then we'll chat about why you love this song. Oh, good. I'm glad you picked this one. Where do you go when the war is won? Oh, fighter When do you know if it's over and done? Longer than a breathless moment

Waiting on a setting sun Longer than a rocket in a rocket chair moment waiting on a setting sun longer than a rocket in a rocket chair when the rocket is done fighter fighter hold your head up high

this is Aaron Costello fighter tell me why you love this jam fighter So this is Aaron Costello, Fighter. Tell me why you love this jam. Listen to her sing. I mean, I just, I have the shivers almost every time I hear this song. It doesn't matter how many times I've heard it before. Again, it's got... It's got such groove. It's got such groove.

It's got such soul. It's a gorgeous song to sing. Um... It gives me the shivers. I don't know how else to explain why I love it. There are very few songs that, for me, that I like the first time I hear them. It usually takes a while for a song to grow on me.

And this song was an exception. Literally, the first time I heard it, my friend Brian, who works at CBC, Brian Colton, who's also the beer columnist on Here and Now, is a very knowledgeable music buff and tipped me off to this artist. She's from Halifax. And I, this song just flattened me the first time I heard it. I admit, I didn't know about Erin Costello until I got your email.

And I was seeking her out and then of course listening to Fighter. And yeah, it's a great jam. She played in Toronto maybe a year ago ago i saw her at the burdock and which is a tiny venue very intimate space and it was quite different first of all she's um she's this petite blonde white woman i feel like that's not what you think maybe when when you hear this song. She doesn't sound like a petite blonde white woman. Right. And she,

it was a beautiful concert. It was, as I say, very intimate. I think a lot of people don't, I don't want to say a lot of people don't know about her, but she doesn't, she's not playing bigger venues.

Yeah. How many people fit in that venue? I think she's, I want to, I might be wrong about this. I feel like she's a music teacher in Nova Scotia as well. So she's, I guess, juggling a lot, trying to get her career going on and on.

But yeah, anyway, I'm a big fan. Well, I'm glad we could give her a little exposure here. And I chose that one because you gave me everything. There was Stone songs, Prince songs. There's a Lucas Nelson with Lady Gaga. Like there was a whole bunch of songs. And then the last email I got from you was Aaron Costello, Fighter. So, of course, I'm going with your last email.

That trumps everything, Briar. By the way, that's an intimate setting you saw Aaron Costello in. But you know what? I had Lowest of the Low play my basement right here, right here. Uh, Ron Hawkins sat where you are in Lawrence Nichols sat in this seat right here. And they played a new, uh, a new jam off their, uh, new album, do the right now. And that's an intimate, that's the most intimate concert I've ever been to. You've ever been to no kidding. You've got it going on here in your basement, Mike. And of course, since I mentioned

Lowest of the Low, we close every episode. So this is episode 290. Every episode closes with Rosie and Grave from Lowest of the Low. Shakespeare, my butt. Fantastic. Jill, thank you for this. Thank you, Mike. What a pleasure. I feel like I just had some therapy.

Talking through my life, sorting it all out. Wait till you come back with your jams. Oh, that's going to be... I learn more about a person by having them kick out the jams than I do from their initial deep dive, I call it. But wait till we kick out the jams. I look forward. Thanks, Mike. And that brings us to the end of our 290th show.

You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Jill is at Jill Deacon, but don't spell Jill with a J, you fool. It's a G. Jill Deacon. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer.

Property in the Six. Dot com is at Brian Gerstein. And Paytm is at Paytm and pay TM is at pay TM Canada. See you all next week when my guest is Andy Frost. I won't go away Cause everything is Rose and green