Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Gill Deacon: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1727

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

In this 1727th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Gill Deacon about the recurrence of her breast cancer, her battle with long COVID, why she gave up her role as host of Here and Now and her new podcast A Love Affair with the Unknown. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, the Waterfront BIA, Nick Ainis and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

Hey what's up this is Chuck D and you are listening to Toronto Mic right here right now in the place to be. Welcome to episode 1727 of Toronto Miked, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville.

Toronto's Waterfront BIA. Check out what's happening on Toronto's waterfront this summer. Toronto Maple Leaffront this summer. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Get your butts to Christie Pitts this summer for the best baseball in the city outside the dome. Recycle MyElectronics.ca, committing to our planet's future, means properly recycling our electronics of the past.

Building Toronto Skyline, a podcast and book from Nick Ainiis, sponsored by Fusion Corp Construction Management Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, returning to Toronto Miked, it's Jill Deacon. Welcome back, Jill. Hello. What a treat to be here. What a treat it is to see you again. It's been a long time.

It has. I don't know how long. I can't remember exactly, but I do. Okay. You know, I do my homework. Okay. So yes, you do. This is the second time we've met in person.

And the first time was when you were in this basement back in December 2017. Okay. So do some math for me there. What is that? Seven and a half years? Yes, exactly. Almost exactly. Okay, so seven and a half years ago,

you made your Toronto mic debut. That was episode 290. You're a machine. I look at you, like, look at this setup. I'm so, such mad respect, Mike. First of all, it's grown and expanded and looks super tricked out since I was last year. And second of all, you're still at it. What was it?

1,700 and something, something like that. This is 1,727 and you're, that's a pretty good gap between appearances actually. But you had a lot going on. We'll talk about that. But episode 290, to me, when I hear a number like that, it feels like the early days 290 and yeah, it's kind of interesting that I'm over 1700 now, but I'm so like I can't tell you how happy I am to have Jill Deacon back Well, as I say, it's an honor to be here. And I truly do, I now have a podcast,

which I'm sure we'll get to, but I understand the effort of making a podcast and the commitment and the work that you've put in to get this far. I have, I truly, I'm not trying to, you know, won't suck up here, but I truly do wanna say how impressive it is at this point. I kinda like the sucking up, Jill, to be honest. I get it now and woo. We'll suck up here, but I truly do want to say how impressive it is at this point.

I get it now and whoo. Well, your new podcast is called a love affair with the unknown. Yes. And we're going to dive into it, like what it's about. We're going to get really into it. Uh, and we're going to talk about your sub stack and what you're up to now. But first I'm going to let the listenership know where they can go to hear that initial visit, cause in that initial visit, I like to do the listenership know where they can go to hear that initial visit

because in that initial visit I like to do the I call it the A to Z where we kind of walk through you the the life and times of Jill Deacon up to December 2017 so I'm gonna read that description and then I got obviously I got some catching up to do with you Jill there's been a lot going on I need to have talk to you about but before we even begin here let's address the fact We're not alone in this room No, who's in the room with us? Jill I keep glancing behind me to make sure he's okay Hugo Hugo my four-legged companion for lo these 16 and a half years. He is a very old dog. We still I still call him him my puppy, but he's a very old dog. He's been a lot of listeners from here and now days when I certainly when

I was broadcasting at home during COVID, one of the many chapters we've been through since you and I last spoke, but Hugo was often lying right there beside me as I broadcast from my home office. And that's where he is right now. And I'm happy to have Hugo down here. And you promised me Hugo won't unplug us during this recording. No, Hugo's too, did I mention he's 16 and a half? He's too tired to do anything.

Way to go Hugo, 16 and a half. You sometimes, I hear. He's kinda like you, he's just soldiering on man. No stopping. He's like me, too dumb to quit. No. Essentially. But no, Hugo's smarter than me. But I was thinking like, you see these tiny dogs and they get to quit. No, essentially, but no, he goes smarter than me. But I was thinking like you, he,

you see these tiny dogs and they get to be like 16, 17, but not a lot of big dogs get to be 16, 17. Like I think that's a medium size, but he's medium. So I don't know. It's all relative. Yeah. But a long may Hugo run. Exactly. Only midlife is just a kid as far as I'm concerned. Right. So I mentioned you were episode two 90, Jill, in December 2017, way back when. Can you remind me, because you mentioned things were different, but I can't remember when things changed. I know Mark Hebbscher had me add cameras for his show, Hebbsy on Sports, and then I started

using the cameras, so we're actually on the live stream, live.torontomike.com. But were we configured differently? There were two by fours. I think this, where we're sitting was under construction because there were two by four, there was some framing of something resembling this studio, but it wasn't the studio. And they're like your kids' toys kind of shoved in

between the, do you want me to go on? Describe what it really looked like. I just honestly cannot remember the two by fours. It was not as pro as this. Like I take your word for it, so you remember the one visit, so it's in your, but you know, I've had like 1700, but I don't remember the two by fours.

I guess I think this was painted around that time. We tend to block out renovations from the mind because they're so terrible to live through. Oh look around, does it look like it was renovated Gilties? It does, it looks very tricked out. No, I'm telling you. Well, praise from Caesar as far as I'm concerned.

And now that you're a podcaster, I can't wait to get to that segment when we talk. We basically compare notes now that we're fellow podcasters, but here's the description. I'll be taking notes from the pro, believe me. Well, I think I could learn a lot from Jill Deacon, that's for sure. But it was December 2017, and here's what I wrote at the time. I mean, I had to revisit it when I had you in the calendar and revisit like our life and times together and this was a rich episode. We talked about you, Jill Deacon, being in Bag of Hammers. That's some deep tracks right there.

Maybe a quick hit here, remind us what's Bag of Hammers? Bag of Hammers was a band started by Kevin Fox, who's now, who's currently touring the world with Stephen Page and he was a bunch of other musicians. He's a superstar musician in his own right and at the time he had this wonderful band and he and I were in that together. And you were the singer? Nothing but great memories. I was the singer, yeah, one of them.

Well a note came in, I'll come back to the description, but it's funny with Steve Simmons, I was breaking down the descriptions, but he would go off on like 20 minute diatribes based on something in the description and I realized it took an hour to finish the description, but but you're no Steve Simmons. I promise not to do that. J Ho, Jeremy Hopkins, the official Toronto historian of the Toronto Mike podcast. He's coming back in August, I think it's the 9th to dive deep into the history of the Sunnyside Pavilion. Sunnyside, by the way, Jill Deacon is the name of a fantastic session IPA made by Great Lakes Brewery. There's cans of fresh Great Lakes beer for you to bring home with you, Jill.

Thank you. Those, these are very popular. And again, I'm, I speak truth, very popular with the beer drinkers in my house. Yeah. And that sunny side session IPA, uh, I think J. Ho and I are going to have to down a couple of those when we record, but, uh, he wrote that he used to see you perform with the circumstantialists. This was, uh, at the Dora K Kehoe's Irish Pub on the Danforth.

This was pre-COVID. Now that pub, I believe is called Noonan's now. You got it. And we still perform there. So when could we like, yeah. So when would we find the, here I suppose, Jill Deacon singing at the Noonan's pub on the Danforth? Well, you could follow our poorly populated Instagram handle

at Circumstantialists to get the latest and because I can't remember all the dates and we do break for the summer and this being July we're not performing for a while. We play a sort of acoustic set every couple weeks at the Rooster Cafe on Broadview but normally we play one Friday a month we play one Friday a month to a packed house at Noonan's Pub on Danforth near Broadview. And it is without fail just every night it's just the greatest night. It's a very, it's a cover band. We play a very well curated and very eclectic mix of songs, you know all the words to. What's your favorite song to sing? At the, you know, with the circumstantialists. I sing Linda Ronstadt, You're No Good, which is so fun.

I sing Mercy by Duffy. I sing, I mean, I sing back up on so many great songs. We sing so many songs together. Science Heel Delivered, we do some monkeys, we do some, like I'm telling you, I do the Venus, Banana Rama, Gloria Gaynor, I could go on. Which is a cover by the way, that's a cover.

Yes, the original was, I forget. A Swedish band, I wanna say. Anyways, we do a bunch of great songs, yes. Something Blue. Like I can see in my mind, blue is, and the original is, well that's what I mean. The band was called something blue. Better than Bananarama, but they made it famous. Absolutely. Cruel Summer too. Everybody with the T swizzled Cruel Summer. I'm like, well, you know, Bananarama had a cruel summer back in the 80s. So, okay. So, Owen, speaking of great singers, do you do

any tragically hip covers in, with the circumstances? I mean, upon request we, okay. So, oh, and speaking of great singers, do you do any tragically hip covers in with the circumstances? I mean, upon request, we can. And certainly when Gord died, we did some tribute songs. We do not sort of as a rule, but we can. Because that's next in the description. We talked because you knew G personally and a terrible loss for, uh, all of us, for all of us. Absolutely.

We talked about your broadcasting career, which at the time, uh, you were hosting here and now we talked about your battle with cancer. Like I use that like singular, like you, you had breast cancer. I did. We talked about your favorite holiday music cause it was December. And, uh, we talked about like what, what holiday music music you were into and then people can find that that's 90 minutes from December 2017 there's a thick three significant life developments I want to talk to you about that happened to you since your last

visit and the first I want to talk about is the recurrence of breast cancer I guess it was about seven years ago it was was fall of 2018. Yeah. So how are you? How are you doing? I'm doing great now. I'm doing absolutely great. My oncologist is kind of broken up with me. For the most part, we see each other much less frequently. I do still have to have a bunch of tests and things to check on certain things. But I'm, and I'm, yeah, I'm really good. I feel really good. I don't think about cancer very much at all. And I don't define myself by it, which I feel lucky to be able to say. It's never not going to be part of my story and it's always sort of looming there as a bit of a memento mori reminder, a little louder than perhaps everyone else

has. But no, I'm certainly recovered and well. Thank you. That's good because I mean several years ago now, but you had to leave here and now to undergo surgery and chemotherapy and you did return to CBC in September 2019 after your second remission. Yep, that's right. All right. So hopefully your oncologist stays broken up with you, Jill Deacon. Yes.

Okay. But that's so that so this is you've lived quite a life because the recurrence of breast cancer, but then I would love to chat with you a little bit about long COVID. Yeah. So you've been very public about your, uh, battle, uh, with long COVID and you had to take a medical leave of absence from the CBC during that period. So maybe tell us what happened. I guess this goes back to December 2022, I suppose. It does. That's certainly when I left CBC for what I thought was going to be a

couple of weeks, medical leave, just thinking, Oh, the Christmas holidays, I'll just take the time off and really recover from whatever this is. But it had been dogging me since really July of that year. I'd had a bunch of mysterious symptoms, some heart stuff, some, some headaches and sinus stuff that seemed relentless. And I kept thinking I was fighting a cold but I wasn't winning. What do you mean by hard stuff? Well it's called tachycardia. Well yeah, I had atrial ectopic beats.

My heart was just misbehaving. I mean I would wake up in the middle of the night with this pounding heart and not know, I mean I was sound asleep and happy and what was going on, you know, stuff like that was happening. I was sound asleep and happy and what was going on, stuff like that was happening. So yeah, it was a combination of a bunch of things that grew increasingly problematic and my energy was flagging through all of it. And by December, I thought,

okay, I'll just take a little bit of time. By January, the holidays are over and I'm still really just can barely make it up the stairs. So I say, I need a little longer and it ended up being 20 months that I was the first eight months of which I was seeing my doctor getting 10 million tests, you know, my GP millions of tests. Oh, go see an endocrinologist. I saw an endocrinologist, an internal medicine specialist, a respirologist, a rheumatologist,

my oncologist, there's others, I'm not forgetting all, there's about eight doctors that I saw, all these specialists. Nobody could really figure out what was what. So it took eight months before I found, of just medical uncertainty, personal misery, decreasing energy. And then you'd have, think about long COVID is it often comes in waves. And so you sort of have a couple of days where you think, wait a minute, look at me, I'm walking the dog or I'm, you know, grabbing some groceries and I can't, maybe it's gone, whatever it was.

And you kind of live your life for a minute and then, whoa, it's you're right back on the couch. So it's really cruel and relentless in that way and it can't help but affect your spirits. You get really psychologically just down and feeling that your old self is gone and how are you ever going to get it back and no doctors have any answers. So it's relentless. And then when I did get a diagnosis, such as it was, because the, anyway, I try not to talk too long about it because it's a little bit boring.

No, I'm very interested about, I don't find this boring at all. Please be as detailed as you'd like to be. Well, the reason in some ways that it took so long to diagnose in my case, really two parts to that. Number one is I never had an active case of COVID ever. I still haven't. I've never once on a rapid test nor a PCR test ever tested positive for COVID. I didn't have a sniffle, I didn't have a cough,

I never had the sort of, nothing, zero, zero, zero. So when I went to each doctor with all these symptoms, they didn't really think to look under that rock because I didn't have any evidence of having had COVID. I did, for anyone who might recognize that situation, I did eventually discover, thank you to my oncologist, because GPs at the time weren't aware of this, there's something called a nucleocapsid test, which is a test that you pay $80 for at, you know, LifeLabs or whatever, and you get, it's a blood test that can determine the difference between it sees whether you have the antibody for COVID, but it can tell the difference

between the natural one, which means you've had the virus and the one that comes from the vaccine. I was fully vaccinated. So it, that was the determination, oh, you do have the antibody for COVID. So somewhere along the line, you did have it. You were asymptomatic, but you had it. And that's what triggered me being able to get into a long COVID clinic, which is where I was finally diagnosed. But even when you get a diagnosis,

there's no, I don't have any answers. There's nothing to do. Well, that's just it, right? This is, even doctors are trying to figure this out, right? Like we don't know much about, like, I mean, what, what was the treatment? Just, uh, waited out. That is what some people recommend. I tried, um, I worked with physiotherapists at a place called cornerstone physiotherapy

that developed a program where they teach to treat people virtually cause long COVID patients don't have energy to go to appointments. And they tracked my calorie expenditure, like my energy expenditure, not food calories, but energy calories. And I'd work within this limited budget of calories and slowly try to anyway, that went on for a long time, and it helped a certain amount. I ended up doing something that I've written about on my newsletter, which is out of love affair with the unknown. It's quite complex to explain, but I will say that it's a neuroplasticity workshop. It is 1000% the thing that got me better from long COVID.

It's about neuroplasticity and sort of retraining your brain's response to your physical symptoms. There are people who don't like hearing about that. People in the long COVID community mistake that for some kind of dismissal that their symptoms aren't real and it's all in your head. That it's psychosomatic or something. That is not at all what it suggests. The symptoms are 100% real. The way your neural pathways have habituated to

respond to them with these kind of, oh, misery and doom and fear and all those unhelpful responses that all they do is further activate your nervous system in this fight or flight stress mode. It's about retraining your brain to respond differently to your symptoms and create new neural pathways that contribute to calming your nervous system, which allows, your body can't heal when it's in fight or flight mode. And so when your nervous system is in the opposite, which is the rest and digest mode, that's when it can heal.

So that's a very fast version of what I did, but it's the science behind it and it's very real. And it's worked for every single person who's asked me, oh my gosh, how did you get better? And I tell them about this thing and I get messages, truly every couple of weeks, I'll get a message from someone, oh, my husband's all better now. Thank you so much.

My cousin's got her life back. I mean, it really, really worked. Well, I'm glad it worked. But that was a lengthy, I mean, so I try to put my, I'm a here and now listener and I was following you. You would speak to the CBC, for example, and I'd read about your long COVID in the CBC on cbc.ca, I suppose.

And I mean, this whole concept of energy dip scares the hell out of me. Like I'm a pretty high energy person and I kind of rely on it. Like I need this high energy because that's how I get shit done. And the whole idea, like when you describe, you know, oh, like just walking into the other room is a quite the task. And you don't know it's gonna get better, right? Like did you ever have a moment where you're like, oh, this is just the rest of my life Oh, I had all the moments were like that for a long long time 20 months I was living in that uncertainty of will will I ever get I mean is the person that I

Thought I was gone the person with that energy to oh sure, let's go to a movie or oh sure, I'll wash my hair because it needs washing. Like I didn't have the energy to wash my hair. So I definitely lived with many, many, many, many, many moments of fear around that. And also being Jill Deacon, like the fact that you, at that time, you're a two-time survivor of breast cancer. So you just returned to the CBC in September 2019 after your second battle with breast cancer.

So did any part of you think like, oh, am I just jinxed? Like, oh, was I born under a bad sign? Like now this? Yes, and all of the above. Yes, yes, yes. No, I did, I wondered. And that also compounded the challenge

with diagnosing my lung COVID, because of my history, they were going down a whole bunch of avenues and checking out, scratching off a lot of possibilities. And so it added to the fear, no question, which I'm, because I've had gone through cancer before, I have learned and I, it's one thing I will say I'm quite proud of is that I'm resilient and I've learned the mental piece of resilience. I feel like what you, the story you tell yourself, the thoughts that you let drive your mental

bus really are the whole game. And so I was quite good as best I could be when I had those fearful thoughts of, is this the end? Is this it? Is this what the rest of my life's going to be like? You know, catching those, interrupting those, trying to say, okay, hold on, is that helpful? Is worrying and stewing and fretting, is that, it doesn't, that doesn't help. It just makes things worse. And, and again, that And that ended up being an aspect of my recovery was reframing my mental responses to my habitual responses to all this physical discomfort. Could you give a specific, cause I'm imagining kind of, I get the vibe of what you're talking about, but do you have like a specific, like how you rewire yourself to,

I'm trying to get a specific there so I can. Yeah, and again, this is a really complicated, it's like a three day workshop that I took to kind of, which is a training. I was imagining like three months in my head. No, no, no, the workshop was three days, but it's a training thing, and then so you have to do that work

for as long as it takes. It only took me a few weeks afterwards, but anyway, so one example is when you, you know, I would constantly get headaches or you'd feel really tired and oh, I have to go lie down. And so, so habitually what I would have been doing for 20 months was, oh my God, I've done it. I've done too much. I blew it.

I've done, I've gone, you know, walked too far. I guess I'll never get better, like those thoughts. So I'd catch myself thinking those. There's a cognitive behavioral therapy aspect to this where you interrupt thoughts and you say, hold on a minute, just, I see what I'm doing there in my mind, getting all down about it. And so instead of responding to my headache

or whatever symptom that way, I'd interrupt that and sort of remind myself of the times when I felt better in my body and focus on, okay, but I did go for a walk today. Like it's a, again, it sounds flaky and it's a little hard. No, it sounds like an attitude adjustment. It's partly an attitude adjustment. That's, there's more to it than that. But yes, just in general, I mean,

specific to how I recovered from it, yes, that's part of it, but there's a lot more to the training. But overall, because you were asking, was it really hard to sort of live with that concern that this was never gonna end? I do tend to, when hard things happen, as they do all the time in our own private lives and in the bigger world, I try to,

I'm very conscious of interrupting just anxious thoughts that really ultimately serve no purpose. They just don't help me. You wanna be productively worried. Like when you see a, you know, unfortunate or mysterious lump, you book a doctor's appointment. Like that's productive or proactive worry. But unproductive worry is just stewing and mulling and wondering and you know, so, and that doesn't really help. So focusing on like choosing what we pay attention to and choosing what attitude I have about my life is definitely part of my way to recover from hard things.

Okay, so you did recover from these effects of long COVID and And I remember being very happy when I tuned in, you know, 99.1. And there is Jill Deacon back hosting Here and Now. But my question for you, because, of course, in September 2024, you announced you were stepping down as host of Here and Now. That's the third big thing I want to talk to you about. But like, I'm curious, when did you realize you wanted to leave your role as host of Here and Now? Like, how long after your return or did you know before your

return? Like, when did you realize you wanted to give up that seat? Well, I actually, I think what you heard was maybe the one time that I came on the radio to say that I wasn't coming back. Oh, you know what? Because I didn't host the show after I... Right. Yeah. I was... You're right. I didn't host the show after I, yeah, I was,

I was, that's a really hard question to answer. When did I know that it was time to leave here and now? It's definitely tied in with what I went through. You know, 20 months is a long time to think about who am I, what does life mean, what is my life gonna look like if I ever get better, how, and I just, I felt like the way forward opened up once I got recovered and felt healthy again,

and I didn't, I'd come back to hosting at, you know, that regular shift of the three hours every day on Here and Now, I'd come back, as you mentioned, after cancer once before. And it just felt like this time something had shifted and I needed to, the path was shifting in a different direction and I needed to leap into the unknown a little bit and kind of bet on myself and on what other interests and

skills and talents I have that I how else could I use them? Well we're gonna put a pin in that for a moment because that's gonna be when we talk about a love affair with the unknown and the podcast and of course the substack. I apologize. Of course he did not come back. I do. I do remember tuning in to hear you come on to make the announcement that you were not coming back. And then my brain thought maybe you came back for a spell. You hear a familiar voice on radio and you think, okay, all is well. And you kind of stuff. I said to people, hear your voice in like the grocery store and they think you were on like this week. They're like the grocery store and they think you were on like

this week. They're like, you know, they think they heard you this week. Oh no, radio is like that. It really is. Yeah. Geez. Yeah. People can't, you know, there's been months.

Okay. So something has shifted. I wrote that down, that terminology. So you, how long was it? About decade? How long were you host of Here and Now? Yeah, about 11 years. Yeah.

Okay. Right. I'm going to play something because this did happen during those 11 years. And I mean, heck, I want to play the whole nine minutes, but we don't have that kind of time. So I'll play like a 60 seconds of this. But this did happen. Jill Deacon. It seems like just about everyone has a podcast these days, but few of them truly resonate in a field that's quickly become kind of oversaturated. But that's not been a problem for my next guest. Mike Boone has made a lasting impression with audio files. He has just celebrated 1000 episodes of his podcast, Toronto Miked, a podcast that celebrates, as the title might suggest, Toronto and its

people. Mike has had just about every big name in this city interviewed on his podcast over the past decade. He even talked to me. I had a chance to speak with him in 2017, but we're turning the tables this afternoon. Mike Boone, better known as Toronto Mike, joins me now. Mike, congratulations on a thousand episodes of your podcast. That is no easy feat in the world of podcasting.

How does it feel? Oh Jill, thanks so much. What a pleasure it is to speak with you again. Yeah, you know when you start podcasting, you don't think about episode one thousand. It's not like you finish recording number one and you're like 999 more to go. Well especially given how long ago you you started. I mean you started 10 years ago. I gotta be careful I don't play the whole thing. I'm like let's hear how this goes. One thing I noticed is like I'm literally I'm and I don't it wasn't a phone but it was like I used my google phone I think and it sounds like I'm on the phone. I'm like Mike couldn't we have done something

different? But okay so I was on here and Now you talked to me when I dropped episode 1000. Congratulations again and then that was 727 episodes ago. Right. Yes we were the we like you Here and Now was all over Toronto so you were a big part of Europe. You know I will say CBC hasn't called since. So CBC, come on, CNN calls. Do you know this CNN calls? But yeah, CNN's called a couple of times in 2025.

But I'm sitting by the phone waiting for CBC to call me back. But it was amazing. Two hundred and eighty something episodes away to episode 2000 will get me back in the Toronto Star and on CBC there but looking back at here now and before we get to a love affair of the unknown I'm wondering like if you want to shout out a couple of Highlights or even just like maybe they don't have to be like positive highlights, but like I know These are not happy happy happy happy things But I know you were I think Nelson Mandela died when you were live on the air. So you had to do a pivot there. And I know David Bowie died just before you went on air. Uh, but

Yeah, Bowie died, Prince died right before we went to you. That was the beauty of, and it is the thing I miss the most about, well, in addition to the wonderful team of people that I got to work with every day, but the the nimbleness of an afternoon show, you know, you respond to the news and that's the value of that is being there when something happens, you know, when that's where the city turns when they want to know what's going on, I don't understand, wait, what, but wait, what? And we, you know, had a script all prepared for the Santa Claus parade. I never forget it. And then the news breaks at Nelson Mandela has died. And there goes that script and we're all live and improvising and making it up

as we go along because that's you're fresh and in the moment. And that's what a live afternoon show is. I just love that. That's the glory of being spontaneous and really present and immediate for the city and for listeners in a way that no other radio program is and can be. So, yes, those are highlights for me. Like a decade, but do you miss it? I do. I don't regret my decision, but there's a lot I miss about it. Yeah, I miss being able to connect with listeners that regularly. You know, people have a very, as you've established,

a very close relationship with CBC radio and they're right there and it's an amazing group of people. And I loved being able to connect with them. And I loved making people laugh. And I still, like a couple of years ago, I was at a cottage and visiting a cousin. And the cousin wasn't home, but someone else was there. And they came out and I introduced myself, said, hey, could we swim off the, and they said, oh, are you? And it turns out they remembered this wonderful

occasion on here and now where we had talked to somebody, we were searching for Dempster's malt bread when somebody was trying to find it, to take it to their uncle in Halifax. And I mean, it was just, and they said, Oh, I'll never forget that. And it was years later. And you know, those are honestly making people laugh

and finding the kind of random human Connected community moments that I think that show did so well Or can do so well is that's that's the magic and of course there was a Jill's jukebox Oh, yes, and they gave me when I my beautiful, wonderful bunch of teammates, colleagues, they made, they had a shirt made for me with a jukebox on the design on front and it says, jukebox, and then on the back, you know what it says, you pick it, we play it. So yeah, that's, there's so many great memories. I think it's, I like being able to leave a place, a job, a community, whatever, when

you feel so many good feelings associated with it and you have so many great memories. And then I'm moving on to new ones. And just because people are so jaded and cynical in 2025, we need to be like super clear here that you 100% made this decision for yourself. Nobody's tapping you on any shoulder or anything. That's a good distinction to point out.

And that was my choice. Now my boss was surprised. Well, the reason we need to point it out is because there are so many, and I won't name names, we talk about it a lot on the show because they usually come back six months later and tell the truth after they told the story or whatever. But there's many a Toronto media person

who was tapped on the shoulder and said, you know, time is up, but they spun it as like a retirement or something like that. Oh, yeah. Fair point. Working on like documentary projects is a common term used in the industry, which basically means that we cancelled your pass card and you no longer work here. See, I'm so naive and innocent. I didn't even think about that.

But you're right. You're you're no, I'm glad you're giving me the chance to clarify that. No, it was 100% my decision. I am back filling in at, at CBC Radio IQ somewhat regularly. So I think if they didn't want me there anymore, they, they wouldn't let me. And you were good. Okay. I listen, you were good.

Thank you. I told you that on your first visit, but do you still tune in to hear and now occasionally to hear how Run Watch is doing? Once a CBC listener, always a CBC listener, right? It's sort of in our blood. Yeah. Okay. No, it's, I was just talking to somebody recently about the comfort that we feel when we hear CBC radio, like a voice

of intelligence and in many cases, you know, wisdom and sanity in these sort of unglued times. So, yes. Yeah, but you make your announcement in September 2024. And in September 2024, there was a lot of concern over funding for the CBC because we had not we the collective we, the Royal Canadian we, kind of had assumed that the Conservative Party of Canada would form the next government and would have likely a majority and Pierre Pauliade would be Prime

Minister and he essentially promised to defund the CBC. Walking through the halls that day that I was visiting, and I hadn't been back there in 20 months or 24 probably by that point. And a lot of my colleagues were talking about it like I don't know if I'll be here now, you know, you're leaving. They'd sort of say, oh, you jump, you know, you're jumping before we all get pushed off. And the sense of an axe looming over everyone's head was very, very palpable. And it's it's not there anymore. So and people are almost kind of trying to steady their feet. And I wait, I just I don't even know what to I was spent so long anticipating.

You know what? It was an unprecedented. Yeah, it was an unprecedented change. Like, I mean, in December 2024, everybody was pretty much coming to accept this new reality that will hit us in 2025. And then all of a sudden, Donald Trump starts talking about 51st state and it's the greatest flip in Canadian political history.

Sure thing, yep. And there's so much, I mean, not to be self-serving about something that's very serious for all of us, our national autonomy right on down to people's jobs and lives. But it is a clear illustration, a very recent one, of we can't really ever get too attached to a plan and what we think is coming because uncertainty is really the only constant. And we have to get comfortable with these ups and downs and twists and turns in the plot and not let it

make us so anxious and upset and uncomfortable that we can't manage, because it's really, it's gonna keep coming. All right, a love affair with the unknown is about to come here to the program, but I wanna give you just a couple more gifts because you made the trek. How is Hugo doing?

Like, I can't see Hugo. He's lying so peacefully down there with his head between his paws. I saw Hugo was here. I know know I told you he'd be an angel I wouldn't bring my dog into your studio if I didn't have to and if I didn't know that he was gonna be just fine As I told you on the phone, I said If Biff naked could bring her dog into the studio, then Jill Deacon can bring her dog into the studio I'm a dog friendly down here.

I would, so you got your beer, but I want to give you a large frozen lasagna from Palma pasta. When you were here the first time, did you receive beer or lasagna? Or is this the before times? I can't remember. I think maybe beer, but definitely not lasagna.

Okay, so yeah, well GLB was the first sponsor in. Go ahead. You're telling me I don't have to make dinner tonight. Well it's frozen solid, so this is the thing. I do get that line and then I know I would stick it in the fridge and then make it tomorrow. But you'll love it. I mean, Palma pasta, delicious, authentic Italian food,

much love to Palma pasta. Go to palmapasta.com. They have stores in Mississauga and Oakville, but they're in like longos and stuff. There's a retail outlets now selling Palma pasta, so it's delicious. You'll report back to me, but you got some palma pasta lasagna. I have for you kind measuring tape Courtesy of Ridley funeral home. Would it be wrong of me to say I'm most excited about this one? No, there's no wrong

I just want you to be your authentic self. Tell me what you'll do if that measuring tape. Are you a sewist? Are you? What are you going to do with that? Well, I'm a rug hooker. Okay, so something that I swore during COVID that I was going to learn and I did. But what does that mean? Like, I actually don't know quite what that means. Like, you make rugs? Did you say rug hooker? Yeah, it's um, it's like a textile art so you can make them as big as you can make them But I make them, um, you know 24 inches square type or somewhere in there Um, so I might use it for that. I also like to paint. Um, I I think i'll be

Keeping this in my in my carry bag and it'll be used a lot, thank you. Well, we're about to talk about podcasting and Brad Jones at Ridley Funeral Home has a great podcast called Life's Undertaking and I urge everybody to subscribe to that. Also shout out to Nick Ienies, who has a great podcast called Building Toronto Skyline and he has another one called Building Success.

And on Friday morning, we're gonna record one episode of each. So subscribe and listen to Nick Aines from Fusion Corp on building Toronto Skyline and building success. And I love working on that with Nick. I want to shout out recycle my electronics dot C a because Jill if you have a drawer or a room or a closet full of like old cables, old electronics, old devices. Maybe there's a laptop from 2002. Who knows what's going on there. You don't want to throw that in the garbage because the chemicals end up in

our landfill. You go to recyclemyelectronics.ca, put in your postal code and find out where you drop it off to be properly recycled. I said that the measuring tape was my favorite thing, but now I actually I'm going to change. I think that's the most important thing I'm taking away from today. Recycle my electronics.com cables and one laptop. I've done it because I have had cables I've been holding on to since the 90s and I'm like, I don't even know. I just can't throw out a cable. Like is that a, I don't know what, I just have a cable.

Some part of us wonders about there's going to be a day when I might need this. And then three iterations of the product later, we realize we don't. 100%. It's like, yeah. So it's a great tip. Recycle my electronics. I say this book underneath your water there, that is the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. They play at Christie Pitts and I'm telling you, Jill, have you been in your life to a Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game? I have with some friends. Good summer fun. My kids were younger. How much does that? Oh, you know that Echo was coming in. I'm like, where's the echo coming from? Oh, she is from the Yeti. The company from my water. I

kind of like that effect. You could do the rest of the episode like that, but no ticket required. It's a it's free. The baseball is excellent. The vibes are great at Christie Pitts. You get a hot dog and you get yourself a Leafs logger. You can drink the beer on the hill without having to hide it. The cops can't bother you. It's completely illegal and good times. Like I urge you to check out some Toronto Maple Leafs baseball this summer. It's a great thing to do with your kids on a warm summer evening or afternoon. It's a great, great time. If you pick the right game, you can hang with the snowman because a snow of informer fame is the official ambassador of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball.

Did you know that Joe? I did not. Absolutely. You got a hang of the snowman. Okay. One last event, family friendly event I'm going to just talk about which is happening this coming weekend. It's celebrate the fest, sorry, no it's not called celebrate, but you should celebrate

the festival of India chariot fest at Centre Island. There's going to be a big parade on Young Street and then the Chariot Fest moves their celebrations to Centre Island for the rest of this weekend. That's July 12 and July 13, 2025. If you're listening in the far off future, you missed it. Come on. But it's a yearly event and it's free and it's open to all. And it offers something for everyone with its diverse mix of celebrations and fun. And we welcome on Toronto Mic'd the newest sponsor,

the Waterfront BIA and there's a waterfront festival for you, Jill. I love it. Okay, let's talk about what you're up to now. So we talked about those big three and these are some guests come in and they don't have much, you know you know yeah this happened that happened you had three significant things I would say recurrence of breast cancer, long

COVID and then stepping down as host of Here and Now on CBC Radio 1 here in Toronto. Three significant life events have happened since we last talked. Tell me about maybe give me a bit of the origin story. Like what made you want a podcast, a love affair with the unknown? What does that mean? Start us off by sharing what you're up to now. Okay, so I've always wanted to make a podcast

and I sort of was working on one right when I got sick at CBC, which was called, I just called to say thank you. And it was a chance to connect people with someone from their past that they wanted to say thank you to. And it was wonderful. It was, took a lot of effort and it was anyway,

but I loved it. And I love sort of crafting a specific, um, kind of sort of the opposite of here and now, which is the general, all news, all purpose, all ages kind of programming. And I liked the idea. So I knew I always wanted to make a podcast. In fact, one of my former producers who's since retired from the CBC,

we used to, we worked so well together and we used to say, someday we'll make a podcast together. So that's one thread to hold there for a second. And then the other thing to tell you is that when I was going through all the medical existential uncertainty that we described during long COVID, which has echoes of what I've had, what I had to face mentally with a couple of cancer, rounds of breast cancer. I also had melanoma removed from my leg which was much

less serious, but I've had many dances with cancer and enough, thank you very much. But during the course of all this, I did a lot of writing. It was one low energy expending activity that I could do when I was ill. And writing is part of how I make sense of things that's happening to me. I've just, that's part of one of my creative expressions. And I realized over the course of this long period that I was accumulating quite a bit of writing about uncertainty and researching and reading about other ways to think about uncertainty.

Because what came to me really clearly as I was going through this endless waiting game of long COVID was I can't spend any time wishing this away. I can't make this not be the way things are. So if I don't like what's happening, how can I change how I feel about that? And how else can I look at this uncertainty? So I started to think about, I started to read about and look into

sort of other ways of thinking about uncertainty. And jazz music is one example, you know, there's a beautiful anecdote from Herbie Hancock. He talks about playing on tour with Miles Davis. They're live in Stuttgart, Germany at this jazz festival. And Herbie Hancock played the wrong notes. So wrong that he lifted his hands off the keyboard and put them over his ears like what have I done? And Miles Davis as Herbie Hancock describes, you can find this on YouTube and hear him talk about it, he says Miles Davis not only didn't react and make it you know a big deal, he changed what he was playing

to make Herbie's notes, to make Herbie's wrong notes work. And his point is, he says, you know, that's jazz. You have to go with what comes. That's what improv and jazz and riffing is all about. And he says, in this beautiful, eloquent way that I'm kind of paraphrasing, Herbie Hancock says, Miles Davis' genius isn't just his musical talent.

It's his ability to take what comes and work with it and keep going. And that's the attitude to life that we have to try to, you know, we can take as an example. So those kinds of attitudes towards uncertainty, it's not, you know, there's a lot of stoic philosophy about our stress and our suffering doesn't come from what happens. It comes from how we respond to what happens. And sort of that, it goes back to that idea of attitude and what are we going to do with this?

So writing was one way that I could do something about this. And I also felt it gave me a purpose because I know that other people, nothing to do with long COVID, but we all have uncertainty in our lives, whether it's the economy or a family member who's ill or an aging parent who's not making sense anymore. Or I mean, there's the climate. I mean, there's just so many aspects of uncertainty in all of life. And I thought, is there a way that I can try to learn

about what I'm going through for myself and make that be something of value for other people? So I wrote what turned into a book that's called A Love Affair with the Unknown. And it's coming out in January of 2026 from House of Anansi. Publishers, the subtitle is Leaning Into The Uncertainty of Modern Life. There's so much possibility that can come. Let me look at the beautiful beauty of jazz music.

Nobody ever knows what, the Mona Lisa wasn't painted in a paint by number. Like you don't always know what's happening, but if you open yourself up to possibility, extraordinary things often happen. So with that spirit, I wrote this book and then my producer who I, picking up that last thread, you know, my producer who said we'd all, we should make a podcast.

We talked about it and thought, well, and by this point I had started writing a newsletter. You mentioned the Substack. Well, the full address, because people should pause the podcast. Or you don't have to pause. While you listen, you can subscribe to the Substack. It's aloveaffairwiththeunknown.substack.com.

Yep. And yeah, there's an Instagram handle, aloveaffairwiththe with the unknown and the newsletter and the podcast which is now on Apple and Spotify and everywhere else you hear podcasts. So it's kind of, it's clearly what I'm, look, it's what I'm living. As you said, I took this big leap.

I chose to walk away from a steady wonderful gig that I'd been doing for a long time So why would I give that up? I felt that there was Opportunity and possibility and growth to be had by trying new things and I chose to believe in the that the you know, the other side of the uncertainty coin is possibility. And so what else might be possible? So it's what I'm thinking, it's what I'm living, and it's what I'm writing about,

and yeah, that's what the podcast is all about. So it's just what fascinates me and drives me. And so I've interviewed people about all kinds of elements of uncertainty in their lives, from talking with Ian Brown about aging, like how do you handle getting older, and talking with Jan Arden about all, you know, creative uncertainty and how does she handle, you know, her response to Canada's 51st state threats. And I mean, whatever, Mary Walsh, who's got a son who's been struggling

for 18 years with addiction. How do you handle that uncertainty? So talking to people, because we all go through big change and big hard things, and what are the strengths that we develop going through hard things? And what's the growth that comes through

on the other side of that possibility? So those are the kinds of conversations we're having and and what I just feel really passionate about right now. No amazing I just love that you're doing this and congrats on the book I didn't realize so January 2026 it's funny you you wouldn't have known that because it hasn't been revealed yet but we're literally literally one week. That's right. You heard it here. I got a sound effect somewhere. No, because you know why? You were literally one, not even one week. I think it's the 15th of July is the the cover art reveal.

I was sent the cover. I was sent the notice from my publisher saying on the 15th of July, you can release the cover art and get people excited. And the pre-orders and all that stuff. So, yeah, it's just around the corner. Okay. I mean, I have difficulty reading a book. You wrote one. Like I'm thoroughly impressed here. You're too busy making this 1700 podcast episode, Mike.

I'm sure AI will take my 1700 podcast and make a book out of it. That's another element of uncertainty we're all dealing with. But yeah. So I just wrote about this on torontomike.com yesterday, but I was, I wasn't even, I don't remember what I Googled, but I Googled something regarding Toronto Mike. And it starts with the open, the top of Google now results is a AI overview or AI results or something. And I just glanced at the AI results and it said Toronto Mike is former radio personality, Mike Stafford's podcast.

And it goes into all this detail about how Mike Stafford was let go from his job at chorus, which is accurate. He told the talk about on this show and it starts kind of describing Mike Stafford's life, which he's talked about on Toronto Mike and then said that Mike Stafford went on to start a podcast called Toronto Mike where he interviews people. So I wrote about this on Toronto Mike where he interviews people. So I wrote about this on Toronto Mike dot com because my fear, I got four kids, I don't want my kids thinking they googled something, they see the AI overview and sort of run with

that as fact, considering how incredibly inaccurate that little test was of the AI results at the top of Google. One thing that I researched, and it's in my book, is the, and I can't remember all the specifics just off the top of my head, but AI is starting to use AI generate, like the AI models are being built and fueled with information that's coming from AI. Right.

Like there's all kinds of hue and cry from writers and content creators about the AI scraping the internet and using their material to feed the information in AI. But now AI is being fed by AI. So it's like a model that's built to decline in accuracy. I mean, it's literally by the week you can see the decrease in accuracy of AI. So what I think makes it- It kind of secretly loves that it's maybe going to eat its own tail and blow up. week you can see the decrease in accuracy of AI. So what I think makes it

really love that it's maybe going to eat its own tail and pull up. It's just you know we always you always teach people to check your sources and stuff and this source anyway this source is incredibly inaccurate at times but the with the great danger I find is that you'll get something that'll be precise like it'll be it'll be accurate and oh this correct. And then the next one will be completely wrong. Like, and I love Mike Stafford. He's, but he's going to be on again. I actually, I have a, I like, you know,

you love him, but you are not him. I love Mike Stafford, but I am not Mike Stafford and Toronto Mike does not Mike Stafford. And he left a comment on Toronto Mike.com on that entry just yesterday, just pointing out, uh, he's here to serve the AI over overlords, quoted the Simpsons of course. But, uh, that was an example from yesterday with the eye, but oh yeah, as I mentioned, AI was going to serve the AI overlords, quoted the Simpsons, of course. But that was an example from yesterday with AI. But oh yeah, as I mentioned, AI was going to write the book based on all these episodes. That's how I got there.

I'm going to quote you, Jill Deacon. Tuesday, May 20th, 2025 will go down in exactly none of the history books as the day that A Love Affair of the Unknown podcast launched on Apple podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. So you have a presence in all the big places and it only launched on May 20th. It did, yeah, we're only, that's why I said I need to take notes, because you're 1,700 episodes in, I'm six or seven episodes.

Well, can we get into the weeds here? Like, can you give me a little insight into, like, now this is the second time you've watched how I roll and it's all zero edits and it's live to thing and here we are and I won't even edit out a moment of this episode. But how do you roll? Like, do you meet people like you meet people remotely? Like when you have Jan Arden on, for example, Jan Arden, who's never been on Toronto Mike would be a great guest. She's very, very funny.

Very, very interesting. So funny. So you see me there. But how did you meet with Jan and is it edited? Tell me about it. Yeah, I mean my producer and I were long time, you know, veterans of broadcasting, but new to podcasting. So we had to learn how do people make podcasts. So we found software and a lot of them are done virtually. So we have, yeah, I have a camera recording me and the software records them at the other end.

So I always say to people, all you need is 45 minutes and some good wifi and hopefully a good microphone. And so I sometimes have to courier a microphone to someone if they're in Toronto that they can use so they have some good quality. But Jan was sitting at her laptop and she's a podcasting pro. She is, but she didn't have her microphone with her.

That's my pet peeve. When I'm talking to somebody I know has a setup because they record their own podcast and they're barking into their, oh, she was touring. She was traveling for something, not touring, but she was traveling and she wasn't home. She just was talking into her laptop. But when Jan Arden says, I'm available on Wednesday,

you say fine, we'll take your lousy sound from your laptop because it's just not as good, but we're glad to have you. I used to produce Mary Jo Eustace's podcast and Jan Arden was a frequent guest on the podcast. So I have produced her. I just haven't got her on this program quite yet. But so do you have any like sought after guests you're pursuing or did you or like,

like I guess what is the lag between I've just chatted with Jan, we recorded it. I don't know what you're using Riverside or Zencasters called squad cast. OK, so yeah, so it's like it records you locally and then it uploads it to the cloud. And then you can pull it. And my producers in Calgary. So it's all very wherever. My producer's in Calgary, so it's all very wherever. Yeah, so we, to be honest, we started this and started figuring out what we were doing

and recorded a few episodes to get them under our belt, and then it took us time to figure out how to launch and so on. So some of the episodes were recorded, there was a big lag time, like a couple of months or more, between when we recorded them and when they aired. But that lag is shrinking now that we've kind of

got it up and running. And so, yeah, we've got interesting, I just- Like I know you don't want to spoil anything because you want everyone to be surprised when it gets pushed to their device or whatever. But is there someone in the can you want to like, is there somebody in the can? See how we talk now, Jill? Okay, is there somebody in the can you want to like, is there somebody in the can? See how we talk now, Jill?

Okay. Is there somebody in the can that you- Serena Ryder's coming on the podcast. That's a big name. Arlene Dickinson's coming on the podcast. Timothy Caulfield has a new book about uncertainty that he's coming on. I think next week I'm interviewing Alex Hutchinson,

who's written a book called The Explorer's Gene, about kind of looking at how the neuroscience of leaning into new things that we don't, like unfamiliarity, which is uncertain, and we don't always like the feel of it, but it's kind of the only way that we've evolved to all the greatness that humanity has been able to achieve, so.

How many are in the can over there, Jill? Like you got a. Oh, well, we've aired seven. We've got, um, several, probably four or five more in the can and then more, we're booking more out. We're going to keep going. So is it dropping weekly? It drops weekly every Tuesday. Do you ever know here's so personally, I get like this mild anxiety if there is something in the can. So I, like I'll drop this episode with you about two, three minutes, three minutes after we take a photo by the Toronto tree in the construction zone as it is today. So that's how I prefer to, like I prefer to do that because I don't, I don't know, there's

time sensitivity things, whatever. We didn't really talk about. You know the Jays 10 game winning streak or anything like that. But I know that I get this mild anxiety if I have something like sitting on the hard drive or in the cloud that hasn't gone in the feed. But do you have an eye and maybe maybe there's no maybe because these are evergreen. It doesn't actually freaking matter. But do you have an ideal lag between record and drop or are you happy to just like bank a bunch

and then have them in the can? I guess we don't, no, we wanna feel current and relevant, but you're right, these are different, they're sort of different kinds of conversations like they're evergreen to an extent. Yeah, they're not time sensitive. Yeah, and some of them are, you know, related to the uncertainty of our political moment

at this, as you said, like in June, if we'd recorded something in December and tried to air it in March, that had any reference to Canadian politics, that would have needed some editing, right? So there's, yeah, we don't like to have too long of a lag time for sure. A couple weeks.

I mentioned this, you know, that's probably when I record a lot, so I do repeat my stories somewhat, but shout out to JD, who hosts a tragically hit podcast, and he's doing this top 40 countdown. And I participated in this, and we recorded in October 2024, and it has yet to drop. And I just can't, I mean, that's how JD wants to roll, and it's his podcast. Who am I to tell him what to do? But to me, it's can't, I mean, that's how JD wants to roll and it's his podcast.

Who am I to tell him what to do? But to me, it's like, oh my God, like I can't imagine recording something in October 2024 and then waiting almost a year or something or I don't know when it's going to drop, but it hasn't dropped yet. But that's on me, I think. That's a long leg time. But it's like, we're going to be referencing, oh yeah, I'm full of the Halloween candy I stole from my kids yesterday.

And then we'll be, yeah, it'll be, you know, when prime minister Chudo said, whatever, whatever. But hey, not my podcast, Mike, stay in your lane, Mike, stay in your lane. So I'm excited now, Jill, you're a fellow podcaster and people can subscribe to A Love Affair with the Unknown or wherever you get your podcasts. And you're also writing up a storm. I'm enjoying what's happening at a love affair with the unknown dot sub stack.com.

And now I've learned there's a book coming and you to be quite, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but you look great. I think I love to say that Jill Deacon. I don't think anyone ever minds hearing that. I certainly wouldn't turn it off. So I turn it down. Thank you.

I feel good, especially. And I say that Because yeah, I didn't look or feel great for a long time and I'm I'm Feeling really strong and well and I'm glad of it. So thank you Do you find that you no longer take that for granted being what you're through? like because I will say like if I ever and No, I don't I don't believe in knocking on wood or I would do it, but like, if I do get sick,

let's say you get a flu or something for a couple days, I always have this sensation of like, if I ever feel my normal self again, I'm not gonna take it for granted. Oh no, there's, I am so, I am very grateful every day for, and even things that don't necessarily float everyone else's boat. I just think that I see beauty and kindness and joy, you know, with a different lens of appreciation. I'm so grateful for even things that aren't necessarily

beautiful or like being stuck in a traffic jam If you reframe it in your mind, it's like hmm Would I rather be in that hospital getting chemo or stuck on the couch not able to move? Or would I rather be here in the traffic jam? I'll take the traffic jam. It's a kind of a great It's a stoic mind trick really the stoic sort of reframe things like it could be worse And it's a very helpful way to get through uncomfortable times. Well, you're welcome that I put you in that traffic jam, Jill Deegan. You're welcome.

Traffic jams are just opportunities to listen to great podcasts, right, Mike? You know, you could probably listen to yourself on Toronto, Mike, done the drive home because it's only two minutes away. That is a short lag time, buddy. Wow. I actually have had guests who have listened to themselves on Toronto Mic because it's there right away and it literally like, I just need maybe a minute or two after we take

the photo. But that's how I roll. And that's just because my brain is wired that way. And it sounds like your brain was rewired somewhat after getting through the long COVID and beating cancer a second time that you now have sort of a different wiring in your brain. I guess I do. I don't take a lot of things for granted and I choose to be conscious of all the things I can be appreciative of and grateful for and what I can focus my attention on.

And I choose to focus it on good people and good things and good conversations. And yeah, life is grand. Life is grand. Honestly, it was a pleasure seeing you again, Jill. It's been a long time since I saw you. And then since then, I did appear on here now, but didn't see you when I was on the radio. And it's great to see you.

When I saw you in Hugo there, I was just feeling really warm inside. Oh, there's Jill Deacon. Well, right back at you. I was so happy that you kindly reached out to have me back. It's great to be here. I saw the sub stack. I'm like, oh, she's, uh, we got to talk about this. Well, I'm glad we did. Thank you.

And that brings us to the end of our 1727th show. I'll be back on CBC. Maybe you'll get me on cue when I hit episode 2000. Can you do that? I'll pitch it. You pitch it. And I'll get you and Tally a Schlanger to pitch it. And then between the two of you, somebody will get me back on the CBC. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs.

You can subscribe to A Love Affair of the Unknown at aloveaffairwiththeunknown.substack.com and then you can subscribe to the podcast and all that good stuff. Much love to all who made this possible. Again, that's Great Lakes Brewery, Palmapasta, you're going to love that lasagna, Jill. It's just the best. Toronto's Waterfront BIA, Toronto Maple Leaf Baseball, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Building Toronto Skyline, and Ridley Funeral Home. See you all tomorrow. This is exciting because he's moved to Halifax, but he's in the basement tomorrow.

He's visiting, I guess he's visiting his folks. I think they live in Oakville. I'm not sure, but Scott MacArthur, who most recently was Afternoon Drive on 1010, part of the rush with Resh Miner. Resh Miner, were you ever friends of Resh Miner? Yeah, she hosted Here and Now for a big chunk when I was off sick. Good lady. She was a good lady, but she seemingly disappeared from public life when she left 1010. I want to know how she's doing. but you can help me with that one. Okay.

I'll work on that one. But Scotty Mac, Scott MacArthur is in the basement tomorrow. See you all then. So Music